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The brighter future

Written By: - Date published: 7:20 am, August 5th, 2013 - 151 comments
Categories: john key, national, Spying - Tags: , , ,

Welcome to John Key’s “Brighter Future”. Here are some headlines:

Violation speaks ill of our democracy

…It also speaks of something very sick and rotten at the heart of the country’s democracy. …

Time to get a grip on politics for our own good

…Strip away the legalese and it is clear that something is rotten in the state of New Zealand….

Spy bungles start to entangle PM

… Key can’t escape questions over what his chief of staff, Wayne Eagleson, and his own department, DPMC, knew about the information being handed over. …

Chilling attacks on freedom

… Akel, the man who has helped define privacy laws in New Zealand, believes the privacy of the individual and the autonomy of a free media are under grave attack. …

Gordon Campbell on the Vance phone scandal

… Either way, it illustrates just why the GCSB Bill should be scrapped or sidelined. Because plainly, the current political masters of the security services cannot be trusted not to use private information for their own political ends. …

Political Report: The State can’t be trusted

… What we have seen over recent months is an insidious creep away from personal freedoms to an at best casual and at worst flagrant disregard for them. …

It’s worse than you think

… The question now is not just how much you trust the executive, but how much you can trust an executive that presides over the screaming absence of constitutional empathy that this one does. …

Govt betrayal on a monumental scale

… The prevailing sound was of the democratic fabric being ripped asunder. …

brighter-future-sinking
Photo by Craig Baxter in the ODT.

151 comments on “The brighter future ”

  1. Paul 1

    Come on, Anthony.
    It’s not all bad. It’s a brighter future for James Cameron and for Peter Jackson.
    And what about those luxury car dealers?
    A brighter future for them, surely?

    • vto 1.1

      Luxury car dealers are doing record trade.

      Food banks are also doing record trade.

      Facts

      Illustration

      Reality

      Scum bastards

      • Colonial Viper 1.1.1

        Ferrari 1H net income up 20% while Porsche US sales up 36%

        Meanwhile IMF projects Spain to suffer at least 25% unemployment until 2018

        BTW Spain now posturing against UK/Gibraltar…expect this kind of thing in Europe to get worse as European governments get desperate and reach for sabre rattling nationalism as a means of staying in power.

  2. Vagabundo 2

    Caveat emptor. He never said who the bright future was for.

    • Paul 2.1

      That’s what happens when you vote for a slogan.
      Time for the NZ population to wake up and pay attention.

  3. Golden Teapot 3

    It will be a Brighter Future because we have Shearer making ground on Key; he’s up 1% in the latest survey. And, this is when nobody is really thinking about the next election; imagine what it’s going to be like when this is all top of mind?

    • Craig Glen viper 3.1

      So true GT, National can do all this and Labour is still stagnating in the polls. Given that many NZers politics is short sound bites via Media and the way National have manipulated Radio works radio stations Key/National is sure to get another term even as he takes away Nzers privacy and Future.
      Our privacy is indeed under attack, thank goodness the Greens/Norman have been leading the charge it looks like they have been able to get traction against National with this crucial issue even if Shearer/ Labour cant.

      • vto 3.1.1

        It is solely because of rising house prices

        All other facets of life fade to insignificance when your house is suddenly worth some hundreds of thousands more………..

  4. srylands 4

    “Debt down”

    “Unemployment down”

    “Exports up”

    “Consumer confidence up”

    “Tertiary enrollments up”

    “Education achievement up”

    Looks OK to most people. If New Zealand still had a first world electoral system Nats would win the lot except Otara and Ahipara.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 4.1

      Debt up (from 17.4% of GDP in 2008 to 35.9% now), unemployment up (3.5% to 6.2).

      Are you delusional, or just a snivelling little liar?

      • Colonial Viper 4.1.1

        Snivelling little neoliberal liar, is my bet.

        • vto 4.1.1.1

          srylands is a waste of keyboard finger energy

        • srylands 4.1.1.2

          Why are people from the extreme left typically so rude? We couldn’t take you anywhere could we?

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead 4.1.1.2.1

            Yes, because habitual bad faith falsehood is so polite, eh. Please note however, that the reaction you inspire in others isn’t rudeness, it’s contempt.

            • srylands 4.1.1.2.1.1

              I think it is also about the politics of envy. You know the politics that generates the wise cracks about the PM’s holiday home.

              [lprent: see http://thestandard.org.nz/the-brighter-future/#comment-674934 ]

              • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                I suppose “the politics of envy” is a good catchy slogan to throw around, but you will struggle (and flail, and fail) to find me making any such wisecracks.

                Personally I don’t mind the Right being represented by such witless gimps as yourself, but from the looks of it the moderators are getting bored with your flatulent false accusations. Have a nice day. Then put up or shut up.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Fascinating how depriving whole communities of their jobs and livelihoods is not considered “rude” by right wingers.

                  • McFlock

                    I know. Fucking tories expect some sort of perverse “Birkenhead Drill”, where almost the entire population stands by and salutes as the bankers, forex traders, corporate bosses, and other criminals jump into their lifeboats and are safely away from the sinking ship.

                    Of course, if some of the lifeboats were used to repair the hull, the entire ship could stay afloat.

                    Remember when our PMs (let alone Ministers of Tourism) used to actually holiday in NZ, almost as if they liked the place?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Seems like another era. One where people in politics acknowledged that government exists to protect the vulnerable in society and to ensure that everyone has access to a fair share of the nation’s wealth.

          • Murray Olsen 4.1.1.2.3

            What makes you think any of us would go anywhere with you?

      • paul andersen 4.1.2

        never debate with a dickhead, they will drag you down to their level.

    • mickysavage 4.2

      Um srylands compared to 2008 debt is up, unemployment up, exports may be up, consumer confidence is weird, tertiary enrollments are only up because of increased unemployment and a baby bulge and if you believe education achievements are up I have a bridge I would like to show you.

      And your last statement shows your understanding of human nature, Kiwi society and New Zealand’s election law and the news is not good.

      • tricledrown 4.2.1

        our universities ranking is well down due to short term thinking from bean brained bean counters

        • Sable 4.2.1.1

          This is true, our unis have suffered as have Australia’s uni’s. Both governments have successively reduced funding increasing costs to students whilst reducing the quality of education.

    • muzza 4.3

      Oh cry-pants, you are the one of the most useless trollops this site may have seen!

      Gosman would be turning in his grave if he was able to see how low the bar is, currently!

      • Rosie 4.3.1

        Fully agree with you Muzza. srylands is really lowering the tone around here. The things he comes out with make me want to put my head in my hands and cry. Mind you, ignorance is bliss so for him, life must be reaaaal sweet, out there in the alternate universe he resides in.

        • muzza 4.3.1.1

          Hi Rosie, don’t give one ounce of your emotion to digital comments such as what that handle makes, in all likelihood is being paid make, which is no better or worse than if they are genuine comments.

          Either way Rosie, be that handle a genuine believer, or a paid troool, it does not operate in any other reality than anyone else. Unless it’s a bot, then all that’s happening is that person is creating major negative energy forces directly/indirectly and calling them in!

    • Lanthanide 4.4

      Just FYI, putting quotation marks around words doesn’t make them actual quotes.

      Anthony actually linked to his sources. Where are yours?

    • North 4.5

      Sryland……..ever the sucker for slogans what ? Don’t mind the fact of actual life for hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders……..glibly purr but if necessary screech the slogans.

      All is well !

      And you have the dumb gall to whine on about rudeness you idiot.

    • irascible 4.6

      Education achievement up??? on whose measure? There has been no change on the international benchmarks of NZ Educational achievement. The only change has been in statistics complied without real evidence by Hekia on planet Key.

    • dave 4.8

      john key loveing bullshiter

  5. Don't worry be happy 5

    The threat to NZ’s (economic/social/cultural) interests has long been within corperate board rooms (with their back door access to politicians). The NZDF, SIS, GCSB, NZ Police…bunch of wallies the lot of them. Fonterrorism anyone?

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 5.1

      It looks very much as though the “high trust” neoliberal deregulation model of ensuring trashing safety standards is a threat to New Zealand’s economic well-being.

      Where’s the GCSB when you need them?

      • vto 5.1.1

        Agreed.

        Trusting in self-regulation / deredgulation / the interests of individualism / supply demand to ensure that surrounding sector requirements are met has been proved yet again to not work. Thanks Fonterra for exposing the failures of this aspect of neoliberal religion.

        At least with Fonterra’s failure nobody died like at Pike River…

        … oh, hang on, Fonterra’s actions did kill small children in China with its melamine….

        The policies of this national government and the attitudes and philosophies that are subsequently encouraged in private business results in

        1. 29 Men being killed at Pike River
        2. 4 men being killed in forestry so far this year.
        3. Babies being killed in China.
        4. Babies almost being killed through botched Fonterra botchulism.

        Deaths.

        Killed people.

        That is the result.

        • Rob 5.1.1.1

          So I take it Vto that your point is that no one ever died in the workplace when the Govt controlled everything.

          Really???

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead 5.1.1.1.1

            What a lovely false dichotomy. Did you have to think hard to come up with it?

          • vto 5.1.1.1.2

            You take that if you like Rob but hopefully few others have…

            it is a touch more complex than that. You see human nature has various individualist characteristics which we are all familiar with. It also has certain community-wide characteristics which have seen us come a long long way, in a relative sense.

            The trick is in understanding these characteristics in order to ensure that the broad parameters in society around individual and community action lead to the right result for the maximum number of people.

            What situations such as Pike River, the forestry sector, the finance company debacle and now Fonterra itself (NZ’s biggest business no less) illustrate is that certain aspects of the neoliberal approach do not work as the architects imagined…

            …this is not something to be embarrassed about. This is what humans do. And especially architects. Oh my gosh architects impose some atrocious stuff on us. They try things. And when they don’t work, they give up on that and try something else.

            This is the trick of course.

            The principles and philosophies that resulted in Pike River, the finance company disaster and the Fonterra dangerous uselessnesses are the same approaches that have also resulted in some good things for mankind. These include such things as cheap undies, cheap paint and cheap hats.

    • srylands 5.2

      Paranoia anyone?

      • mickysavage 5.2.1

        Why don’t you respond to the comments to your comment 4.0?

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 5.2.2

        I’m not sure that pointing out market failure amounts to paranoia. Yeah, it doesn’t, eh. That’s just the way things are, get used to it.

  6. James Thrace 6

    GSCB GSCB What do ya wanna know from me
    GSCB GSCB Opens all my mail for me
    GSCB GSCB Watching when you have a pee

  7. Wayne (a different one) 7

    [deleted]

    [lprent: You are currently banned. An extra 3 weeks added as a doubleup. If I see you back before the 3rd of September, then I will ban you permanently. ]

    • Sable 7.1

      Too busy trying to construct an Orwellian style police state maybe?

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 7.2

      You forgot the better economic performance we’ll also have – as history attests.

      As for your litany, if only National really were the party of small government, instead of the Nanny on steroids winner picking crony rewarding law selling mail opening Yankee sniffing rights abusing incompetence on a stick they really are.

  8. Sable 8

    This is precisely what happened to John Howard in Australia, the offensive, tyrannical behavior became so bad even many normally to the right of the political spectrum abandoned him. Lets hope enough people wake up in time for this coming election.

  9. tracey 9

    Srylands… you are the one seeing things that arent there. Debt is up. Unemployment is up.

    • srylands 9.1

      Unemployment is down

      In the March 2013 quarter compared with the December 2012 quarter:

      The employment rate increased to 63.7 percent, up 1.0 percentage points.
      The number of people employed increased by 38,000 (up 1.7 percent).
      The unemployment rate fell 0.6 percentage points, to 6.2 percent.
      The number of people unemployed decreased by 15,000 people (down 9.1 percent).
      The labour force participation rate increased 0.6 percentage points, to 67.8 percent.
      The number of people not in the labour force decreased by 19,000.

      [lprent: If you want to rely on referring to something, then provide a link for others to investigate. If that is impossible then provide a findable reference. As far as I can see, these numbers appear to be on the same order as Nick Smith – acquired out a rectal cavity.

      Read the policy. This is your warning.

      Adding you to auto-moderation until I see a link. ]

      • richard 9.1.1

        That’s far too short a time-frame to be of much relevance when looking at the record of a government. Try looking at the rates when the nats first got into power and comparing them with what they are now.

        Hint: http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/income-and-work/employment_and_unemployment.aspx

        • srylands 9.1.1.1

          Those bad stats were all down to the GFC. Apart from Australia, it happened everywhere.

          But the good news !!!:

          Because of our flexible labour and product markets and our high quality banks, we got through it in good shape. Just shows the benefits of markets. By 2020 we will have a less regulated labour market and our product markets will be more competitive. All electricity generatos will be 100% privately owned. The share market will be deeper. There will be 500 partnership schools.

          Good times 🙂 Good times ahead 🙂 🙂

          [lprent: see http://thestandard.org.nz/the-brighter-future/#comment-674934 ]

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead 9.1.1.1.1

            Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

          • richard 9.1.1.1.2

            Those bad stats were all down to the GFC.

            Crikey! And here was me thinking it was because the government was a bunch of inept idiots who blindly followed the advice of the neo-liberal failures who inhabit the policy desks of the NZ Treasury because they haven’t got any ideas or clues themselves.

            • srylands 9.1.1.1.2.1

              “Crikey! And here was me thinking it was because the government was a bunch of inept idiots ”

              No it really was the GFC.

              [lprent: see http://thestandard.org.nz/the-brighter-future/#comment-674934 ]

              • blue leopard

                Srylands,

                Would you please put some thought into what the causes of the GFC were?

                Hint: If you do this you might discover that the political and economic views you promote are the ideologies that have caused the crises.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Funny how Shitlands thinks that financial markets going up has anything at all to do with the real economy, or real peoples wages.

                  http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2012/07-2/20120719_lance3.png

                  • blue leopard

                    @ C.V
                    Great link

                    Providing proof that economies, that we believe are set up to ensure the wellbeing of many, are no longer doing so.

                • Rob

                  Yep I agree Blue Leopard, lets hold the buggers to account shall we.

                  A huge part of NZ’s wealth was stripped away as a result of the pre 2008 Govt complete mis management of the domestic financial investment market. We often have the term used about “do nothing Govts” , well there is your principal example of a do nothing Govt watching from the sidelines as billions of NZ earned dollers were stripped out of the NZ economy and a generation.

                  So why was this Govt so inept at managing this issue. Was it because they just did not understand the risks or the level of investment , so asleep at the wheel. Or were they too focussed on other seemingly big issues such as eco light bulbs or low flow shower systems or purchasing a rail system, so there priorities were flawed. Or perhaps, did they just not give a fuck.

                  • @ Rob,

                    Your comment is unclear?

                    Are you trying to establish that the NZ labour party was the cause of the global financial crisis?

                    • Rob

                      Is that really what you get from that, really???

                      If Labour were so fantastic why did this shit happen in NZ?

                    • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                      No, Rob: you’re the one making the feeble assertions: it’s up to you to support them.

                    • muzza

                      @ Rob, have to agree with BL, thats a little what it reads like.

                      I’ll give you some credit, about use of the word “wealth”

                      Rob – what does the word wealth mean as far as you are concerned, when it comes to NZ, and the people who live inside it borders?

                      What is investment, and who manages the investment on behalf of any government, and where does the investment advise come from?

                      Once you have had a crack at those two, I imagine we can move onto casino markets, money as debt, and what true wealth, might actually consist of!

                      Off you go….

                      EDIT: Woops, just seen your response to Richard a little lower down, you potentially have no idea what you’re writing, or have made no attempt to let anyone know that you do!

                    • @ Rob,

                      If Labour were so fantastic why did this shit happen in NZ?

                      This is very sad to have to explain something so blatantly obvious:

                      Global crises, due to the global nature of the finance system effect every country connected with the system.

                      How about answering my question now?

                  • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                    Rob, there’s another possibility you haven’t explored in your comment, which is that you are full of shit. Feel free to support your feeble drivel with facts and figures, since your word isn’t worth anything at all.

                    • @ One Anonymous Knucklehead

                      Good advice; wonder whether Rob will take it.

                    • Rob

                      Advice? No advice there. Just a whole lot of abuse. Wow , you must feel really big now.

                    • Feel free to support your feeble drivel with facts and figures,

                      Sounds like good advice to me.

                      Perhaps Rob, you need to go back to your masters and ask them to provide you with some links and something vaguely resembling reasoned arguments (that is the best they will be able to manage; cos they are not rational).

                    • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                      What abuse?

                      There’s no abuse there, Rob. My comment challenges your drivel: I wrote nothing about you at all, so stop being such a cry baby wanker (now that’s abuse. You see the difference?) and make an attempt to support your bullshit with facts and figures.

                      Put up or shut up.

                    • Rob

                      “Cry baby wanker” indeed, you angry shouty little person.

                    • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                      Nothing substantive to say then? Didn’t think so.

              • Draco T Bastard

                The GFC was a direct result of the neo-liberal paradigm that has been forced upon the world for the last 30 to 40 years (depending upon where in the world you are). The Great Depression was the result of similar policies.

          • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1.3

            Because of our flexible labour

            We don’t have a flexible labour market though. I know this because when I went for a job and they asked me why I wanted that job and I said that it’s just a job although one I do well they didn’t hire me. In fact, they pretty much threw me out of the interview. They wanted someone to love the company you see. They were, quite literally, demanding sycophancy. I suspect hiring sycophants makes it easier for the corporation, already a psychopath, to have people do things that are bad for society.

            So, no, we don’t have a flexible labour market unless you call employers dictating terms “flexible”.

            we got through it in good shape.

            No we didn’t as the increased unemployment and poverty shows.

            By 2020 we will have a less regulated labour market and our product markets will be more competitive. All electricity generatos will be 100% privately owned. The share market will be deeper. There will be 500 partnership schools.

            Good times 🙂 Good times ahead 🙂 🙂

            And NZ will be a basket case with a few people living high on the hog while everyone else suffers.

          • KJT 9.1.1.1.4

            Because of Cullen’s caution with the countries finances, particularly by resisting, mostly, Nationals call for tax cuts, and Keating’s regulation of the Australian banks, which National, and Srylands, would have deregulated, just like the UK, Iceland’s and Ireland’s, if they had the power at the time.

            Even Bill English had to admit that Labour left NZ in good shape to weather a recession.

            Which National promptly squandered, for election bribes for the rich.

        • Young and Dumb 9.1.1.2

          When it comes soley to statistics you can only really look a short frame back, 1 – 2 quarters if you are comparing it to now with any real weight.

          Both the international and national environments change in such ways that they render any long term comparison irrelevant.

          • richard 9.1.1.2.1

            Really? Got a link to some research that backs that statement up?

            • Rob 9.1.1.2.1.1

              Yes , its called interest rate changes, currency changes, price changes, you know Richard the sorts of stuff that actually has an impact on peoples lives in the real world.

              Go back to your comaprisons of pre 2008 all you like and turn it into a dribble fest and a real chin wag. But what is important to business and the cost of living is the trend we are currently living in.

              • @ Rob,

                So taking what you say to be true, all a government has to do when they get into power is to immediately make some policies that sets us back 10 years and for the rest of the time they hold the front benches simply ‘muddle along’ to slightly improve the stats and businesses and the ‘cost of living’ will be happy.

                Brilliant

                • Rob

                  What, you make no sense with your debate. Why would anyone think that an example of good policies would lead to an outcome of setting “us back by 10 years”.

                  However constant improvement is good. If the overal plans and tactics are well thought through and implemented correctly then that is what we should be seeing.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    No policy can be good if its been based on macro-economic theories which have been proven to be faulty both in practice, and mathematically.

                    Going forwards

                    1) the debt based monetary system has to be phased out.
                    2) economic growth based on quantitative/volumetric increases in consumption must be phased out.
                    3) policies of full employment must be introduced.
                    4) labour share of income must be increased by 20%
                    5) the NZ dollar to be pegged to give our exporters certainty.

                  • You responded to a person objecting to short-term reading of the trends by saying:

                    But what is important to business and the cost of living is the trend we are currently living in. ~ Rob

                    All our government has needed to do to please you is pursue policies that cause a lot of damage when they first got into power, (or, incur a lot of damage if the GFC is going to be blamed for everything) and now that the damage is done; any improvement, no matter how pathetic is seen as a good thing.

                    This, according to you is a good thing.

                    To me it is an unacceptable way of viewing the current trends, and only serves to keep in power, those that have no interest in improving conditions for ordinary people.

              • richard

                Um, what?

                Rob, you clearly didn’t read what the young dumb act voter wrote and what I asked in reply. I asked for links to the proof he/she had for the assertions made.

            • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.2.1.2

              He’s just spouting the normal Milton Friedman BS that in economics you don’t have to prove anything because it’s all too complex.

              • Chooky

                oh and I thought he was a nice young innocent…but he is a young ACT!….Squawk!

                To us chooks ….economics is simple….share the pie around…look after the chickens …keep the roosters in their place if you can ….and don’t let anyone steal your perch….also watch out for weasels , stoats and ferrets…. and rats who try to steal your nest egg.

                …..no need for statistics or economics

              • BLiP

                Brilliant. Hadn’t thought of it like that, but you are bang on. Its jut so easy to go down some neo-liberal rabbit hole of economic theory and ending up in some twighlight realm where empiricism fades into insignificance. The denizens of this zone do, genuinely believe they are working in ideas far too complex for any prole to grasp, but, really, they’re all quite mad. I’m wondering if neo-liberalism would qualify as a religion? They worship a being referred to in hushed tones as “The Invisible Hand” and pay homage to a pantheon of Atlas-types.

          • Puddleglum 9.1.1.2.2

            That’s an interesting view, Young and Dumb.

            Would that mean that there is little point in looking at economic indicators in, say, late 1999 and comparing them to indicators in late 2008 to draw conclusions about the Labour-led governments’ stewardship of the economy?

            Would there also be little point comparing economic indicators from mid 2002 till late 2008 to draw the same conclusions for those two terms?

            Would there also be little point comparing economic indicators from late 2005 to late 2008 to draw the same conclusions for that term?

            Would it simply be impossible to draw any such conclusions about the Labour-led governments’ stewardship of the economy for any period other than the last quarter (or two)?

      • Sable 9.1.2

        That’s assuming you are foolish enough to believe the government stats srylands.

        Indeed if you are so convinced its all so rosy why the need to convince the silly lefties, the truth will come out and Keys will keep his place on his throne without your input.

        • srylands 9.1.2.1

          “That’s assuming you are foolish enough to believe the government stats srylands.”

          Oh no more paranoia

          They are not government statistics. They are Statistics NZ statistics.

          Section 15 of the Statistics Act 1975 gives the Government Statistician sole responsibility for statistical processes.

          [lprent: see http://thestandard.org.nz/the-brighter-future/#comment-674934 ]

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead 9.1.2.1.1

            The Government Statistician could probably explain to you what cherry picking is and how it’s one of the ways you tell lies with statistics, eh.

          • Sable 9.1.2.1.2

            Are you really that naive? I know someone who works in this space and I can assure you mate they are not telling you the full story by any means. Unemployment is for example, FAR HIGHER, than the government would like us to believe.

            Still if after everything you have seen recently you still believe statues and laws protect us then I’ll say no more as its clearly wasted words.

            • Colonial Viper 9.1.2.1.2.1

              Particularly if you count in under-employment e.g. people working part time or casual jobs who want full the permanent work, people who are working at low skill low pay jobs outside of their qualification/professional credentials etc.

              In the US they’ve fucked the unemployment statistics is so many ways those numbers are now just a joke. If you’ve had a single hour of work in the last month (paid or unpaid) you cannot now be classed as “unemployed”.

      • srylands 9.1.3

        Source:

        http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/income-and-work/employment_and_unemployment/HouseholdLabourForceSurvey_HOTPMar13qtr.aspx

        Household Labour Force Survey: March 2013 quarter

        [lprent: Moderation removed. Took a while I’m afraid because I had few other bugs to kill. Just put in the sources because I really don’t like cleaning up the noisy comments sections that result from a lazy arsehole pissing around with unsourced numbers.

        Without thinking about it, I know of at *least* 4 sources for unemployment figures. They also include the census, the number of people on unemployment benefits, and the unemployment figures in budgets. None of them are particularly accurate.

        My usual response is to fools playing with unsourced numbers and generating the consequential silly discussions is to debride the problem. ]

        • Puddleglum 9.1.3.1

          Thanks for the link, srylands.

          Notice that in the table in your link, the annualised employment rate was down 0.3 percent in the march quarter and the Labour Force Participation Rate was down 0.8 percent.

          Similarly, if you look at the left hand graph in the link, the employment rate is now at the level it dipped down to in the September quarter of ’09.

          Now, I realise that, according to Young and Dumb, such long-term comparisons mean very little but I have to say that I don’t find it reassuring that we are back to the employment rate level that we experienced after the main initial dip from the GFC.

          That we have ‘rebounded’ from a trough that was deeper than the initial GFC drop (and where did that trough in employment rate come from?) is, I suppose, better than digging the economy into a yet deeper hole; but I still would have preferred that the economy had not gone through the second trough.

          Perhaps my analysis is too simplistic?

          • Colonial Viper 9.1.3.1.1

            basic rule: as spending and sales in an economy drops (whether local, regional or national) employment will fall.

            as spending and sales in an economy rises, employment will rise. Common sense, but this is not how orthodox economists usually look at and analyse employment.

            The other thing: the government “balancing the books” entails only one possible scenario:

            The government is sucks net money out of the private sector into the public sector, shifting the balance in the economy to a private sector deficit and a public sector surplus.

            Employment will be lost.

            • Puddleglum 9.1.3.1.1.1

              aka ‘austerity’?

              • Colonial Viper

                Exactly.

                Or put another way, they are willing to sacrifice millions of educated, hard working, honest people in order to try and balance the figures in their electronic ledgers, and preserve the paper financial order that they sit atop of.

  10. North 10

    Slogans are oxygen to idiots. Never mind indisputable fact.

    Professional economist my arse. A Shonkey Python liar is what I see and hear in Srylands.

    • bad12 10.1

      LOLZ, professional economist, that one appears to get it’s economics from the pages of the NZ Herald where it directed me yesterday when i again questioned it’s economic literacy,

      i can well imagine it studying the pages of such a right wing rag seeking a diploma which obviously, based upon the content of it’s comments, majored in Bulls**t…

      • srylands 10.1.1

        ” one appears to get it’s economics from the pages of the NZ Herald ”

        You misleading fool. I directed you to a copy of Brent Layton’s EA report on the electricity market, which was cited by the New Zealand Hearald in its article. Brent Layton is not a NZ Hearald journalist.

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10888642

        • framu 10.1.1.1

          “Brent Layton’s EA report”

          if thats what you want to get people to read then link to it. Linking to a story where it is referenced is about as usefull to making your point as your previous delusion that a comment on a fishing forum was evidence.

          you linked to the herald – that is where people would have gone

          • Rosetinted 10.1.1.1.1

            Is there an inbuilt ratio that says that as you get fatter you increase brain cells as well?
            Just looking at Brent Layton, if that ratio idea is right, he has cogent reasons for us to pay attention to his views. And I’m trying to lose weight! It may be my downfall in the brainbox stakes. If my comments get more confused over a period you will know where to place the blame.

        • bad12 10.1.1.2

          SSlands, you then have something in common with Him then, well two things actually, you both seem to have majored in Bulls**t…

        • richard 10.1.1.3

          But Bret Layton is on the board of the NZ Electricity Authority and has a vested interest in maintaing the status quo. You really need to look into the background of the authors of any articles you cite and ascertain what biases and perspectives they have before believing everything they say

        • Phil 10.1.1.4

          srylands, out of your depth…much?

    • Rob 10.2

      First sentence “Slogans are oxygen to idiots. Never mind indisputable fact.”

      Second sentence “Professional economist my arse. A Shonkey Python liar is what I see and hear in Srylands.”

      Pretty good at the old slogans yourself there North. You must be breathing easy with all that O2 around.

    • Draco T Bastard 10.3

      Professional economist my arse.

      I believe him but I doubt if he’s over 25 and is straight out of university. He has no real life experience to counteract the BS he was indoctrinated* into and considering his self-proclaimed career, he’ll never get that experience.

      * BTW, economics is about the only schooling that I would apply this to.

  11. Chooky 11

    +++++1111 Amongst all the amusing and informative comments…indicting the New Zealand spirit of egalitarianism is alive and well ( except for sryland)… There have been two contributions which have stood out for me:

    1) Alanz 4 August 5.57pm (under “Friday Document Dump” August 2nd)

    …He/she states i)that the media should keep digging because there are 3 key, pivotal issues not covered in the document dump.ii) Also there are nationally grave matters not yet public …

    ( my comment: I guess the milk debacle is one ….but what are the others?….and will they be manufactured crises so that our lives are tied in closer to Key’s cunning plans…or are they real?)

    2) exitlane 3 August 4.47pm ( under “Andrea Vance’s Privacy Breach” August 3rd)

    ….He/she points out that under the GCSB ( refs. Snowden / “NZL” docs / re Xkeystore ) phomne calls and email content anywhere can be accessed with a few keystrokes without a warrant….Hence John Key would have known everything about Dunne and Vance even without the help of Parliamentary services !!!!…..sooner Dunne realises that this and what he is thinking of voting for are tied up inextricably ,the better)

    ( my comment : is Dunne complicit in a coverup or red herring/straw man ….when Key had everything already?…..Does Dunne know this?….If so , Dunne’s squealing about Parliamentary breaches of his privacy are rather spurious…and it makes him a lot more complicit and tricky than what we thought)

  12. AmaKiwi 12

    This thread has been hijacked by Sryland’s diversions about the economy.

    This issue is totalitarian autocracy and dictatorship as Key’s version of our brighter future.

    This comment has been recorded by the NSA and linked to my name, address, email address, internet activities, bank accounts, IRD records, police records, medical records.

    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      This thread has been hijacked by Sryland’s diversions about the economy.

      Pretty much. Typical delay and disrupt trolling strategy.

  13. chris 13

    We certainly shall have a brighter future… our private details will be well illuminated for Pin o key o and his crones..

    oops had to edit typos

  14. alwyn 14

    Ah, that photo at the head of the piece takes me back.
    That was one of the National Party billboards that was torn down by the Green party supporters in Dunedin. Do you think that they will give up the practice next election?
    Of course, like the illegal activities of most parties in an election the police always find that there isn’t enough evidence to prosecute.

    • Colonial Viper 14.1

      Part of election year festivities my man, don’t get so worked up. As for insufficient evidence. Maybe you’d like to get John Key to call in the cops to harvest the txts of all Labour and Green supporters in the region? By all accounts Don Key will be very supportive of such an idea.

      • alwyn 14.1.1

        You are probably right. Perhaps I should revert to youthful pranks like painting moustaches on candidate’s pictures. I am far to old though to want to head off out in the middle of the night to deface, or destroy billboards.
        I think the best thing to do would be to steal, and store, the billboards of the party you oppose.
        Then, at say 3am on election day put them up all over the electorate, spreading them far and wide.
        Then make a complaint to the police pointing out that they are advertising on election day, which is of course an offence.
        Your comment is far to kind-hearted. I was expecting someone to demand proof of my claim about the source of the picture.
        In the 2004 local body elections I remember seeing one of the Wellington Council candidates, in the middle of a Sunday afternoon, going along Glenmore street in Wellington tearing down another candidates posters. He was quite well known so I must assume he didn’t care who saw him. I wish I had been equipped with a camera. Perhaps the Dom/Post might have put it in the paper.

        • Colonial Viper 14.1.1.1

          I think the best thing to do would be to steal, and store, the billboards of the party you oppose.
          Then, at say 3am on election day put them up all over the electorate, spreading them far and wide.
          Then make a complaint to the police pointing out that they are advertising on election day, which is of course an offence.

          This has been done before, and yes the police take a very keen interest…at the perps…

  15. Skinny 15

    The Greens are clearly taking your votes Johnny boy as will Winston Peters & don’t kid yourself he’ll team up with you, revenge is all the matter to him.

     So mark my words “the game will be up in 2014, those people that didn’t vote at the last election will be making their voice heard, they’ll come out in the hundreds of thousands to oust this corrupt regime.” 

  16. Wayne (a different one) 16

    [deleted]

    [lprent: You are currently banned. An extra 3 weeks added as a doubleup. If I see you back before the 3rd of September, then I will ban you permanently. ]

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 16.1

      “Forgotten” – 😆

      Yes, of course the media will forget all about this and not let it affect the way they portray the lying Prime Minister.

      We need better wingnuts.

    • Skinny 16.2

      Oh Wayne really, you still haven’t caught on to how MMP works. The difference between a National or Labour led Government was less than 40,000 votes last election. You can comfortably assume at least 150,000 votes from the 750,000 voters that didn’t vote last time will cast a vote L/G, Mana or NZF. They will come out if only to be rid of the current regime. Quite simple math to workout.

  17. Young and Dumb 17

    Sadly this future is brighter than it would be if they lost the election.

    The amount of parties that would all be calling the shots would create another set of squabbling idiots. There was no direction from the left and it was unclear what was happening with their only real policies being pretty much anti-National. If Labour could have won acting like that it could have been the worst thing for us all.

    However now that the left has got some form of traction (Via the Greens) this election could be good for us either way. If National win they will put into place their worst policies which will cause the public to have enough of their bullshit and will kick them out in the following election (2017?) This will also be largely caused if David Shearer is still leader and fails get any real support with Labour recieving any less that 30% of the vote. People will finally wake up and realise that Labour is no longer what it used to be and shift their focus onto the Greens.

    With Labour still seeming to be in somewhat even factions and unable to find any direction if Shearer is rolled it is hard to predict what will happen

    • Chooky 17.1

      @ Young and Smart and thinking

      Good analysis!

      And if Shearer is rolled and by some miracle Cunliffe , the choice of rank and file members, is put in as Labour leader …I plus many others think that Labour has a very good future indeed , alongside the Greens.

      ….After all Shearer was only supposed to be interim leader and confirmed only if the polls showed him to be a success…..so it is now Cunliffe’s turn.

    • Chooky 17.2

      Question : Young and Thinking

      What are the big issues for young voters in your order of priority?

  18. mike e 18

    Shrilands what was thr truth about australian tax levels you got that wrong.
    No inclusion of state taxes medicare cotributions or compulsory super contributions!
    Campbell live outlined the difference between Austral:ia
    There is very little difference between the 2 economies

  19. mike e 19

    Shrilands what was thr truth about australian tax levels you got that wrong.
    No inclusion of state taxes medicare cotributions or compulsory super contributions!
    Campbell live outlined the difference between Austral:ia
    There is very little difference between the 2 economies

  20. fender 20

    The “brighter future” was clearly a reference to a surveillance state where the fascists shine light on everyone and their activities.

  21. Paul 21

    Another thread ruined by srylands.

  22. Paul 22

    Another thread ruined by srylands.

    • Rosetinted 22.1

      Another thread re srylands and you will be able to make a plait. Wrylands would then have been useful for a piece of art work. Better than nothing.

  23. tricledrown 23

    Srylands I think its gosman on p
    Old slippery the fonterra debacle
    Has taken the focus off spying and lying.

  24. tricledrown 24

    Srylands I think its gosman on p
    Old slippery the fonterra debacle
    Has taken the focus off spying and lying.

  25. Wayne 25

    If the Left seriously thinks they can win an election by comparing things to prior the GFC you are deluded.

    The public are not stupid, they know the impact of the GFC. What they will is compare the situation to 3 years ago. Most economic stats are better (and no, I am not going to provide 20 links). I assume most people here read newspapers and watch TV and do not live in caves, so you know the general stats on growth, unemployment, balance of payments, interest rates etc.

    So the Left will need to have a realistic campaign, one that does not assume the Nats are psychopaths etc (well to fair that relates to a few zealots on this site, not to David Shearer and his colleagues).

    And doubt too many votes will be cast as a result of the GCSB bill, or Andrea Vance. And in event Helen Clark has rather cut the ground from under the feet on that issue.

    • Colonial Viper 25.1

      its the end of economic growth Wayne. Resource and energy costs have broken a 100 year down trend and are climbing inexorably upwards. That means that making real economic profits is growing increasingly hard, while playing financialised games and parasitic ticket clipping off the real economy is the only place big profits are left to be had.

      The country needs a complete rethink of its economic, fiscal and monetary systems and it has to happen fast.

      As for the GFC: GFC mk II is building up as we speak, and is likely to hit this year.

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 25.1.1

        Why is it that the left is so determined to be miserable?. Perhaps this is why they are so unpopular.

        • Colonial Viper 25.1.1.1

          Miserable? Winter is coming, my friend. Your personal feelings about that fact are not particularly relevant to Mother Nature.

        • Draco T Bastard 25.1.1.2

          Is it because we keep telling people that the policies of the right don’t work as proven by reality that gives you the idea that we’re determined to be miserable?

        • Phil 25.1.1.3

          The Gormless Fool. Yes you certainly are.

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 25.1.1.3.1

            Hey, Phil. I see you call yourself “Phil”. Do you find it particularly hurtful when people use the name you have chosen for yourself as if it were some clever putdown? Phil.

    • vto 25.2

      Wayne you seem to be under the illusion that comments posted on here are all about the election.

      I would suggest most are simply aimed at pointing out the base fallacies that underlie this current government. Whether or not that resonates with talkback radio that is another question.

      Key would be good at talkback radio.

      The fact that the fact that Key and his financial world caused the GFC does not resonate with talkback radio is not the be all and end all.

    • Draco T Bastard 25.3

      I assume most people here read newspapers and watch TV and do not live in caves, so you know the general stats on growth, unemployment, balance of payments, interest rates etc.

      I just live in the real world and see most people being worse off due to this governments policies despite the increased stats in the “economic” realm. The fact that this was what John Key said he wanted does have a tendency to prove that he’s a psychopath and that National is as well because they’re following his recommendations of lowering wages.

    • Puddleglum 25.4

      HI Wayne,

      Three years ago was mid-2010. If you look at the link to the Household Labour Force Survey that srylands provided above at comment 9.1.3 (and that I commented on here) then you’ll notice in the graphs that the employment rate is a little worse than in mid 2010 (if my eyes don’t deceive me) and the unemployment rate marginally better.

      So far as employment goes, this is not a stellar performance. Is this one of those jobless recoveries?

  26. dumrse 26

    Funny how Shitlands thinks that financial markets going up has anything at all to do with the real economy, or real peoples wages.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2012/07-2/20120719_lance3.png

    Great link my arse. May just as well have come off the back of a shit house roll.

    [lprent: You mean like this one… 😈 Interesting rereading that post after the NZ Truth did indeed spiral away into it’s brighter future… ]

  27. tricledrown 27

    Huffington post had an article about. Poverty in the US that 80% of US citizens have used food stamps in the last ten years!

    • Colonial Viper 27.1

      many still think that socialised health care is evil, that they will all be millionaires (its the American dream) and that the rich should be taxed less and celebrated more as Job Creators…you know, for when they all become millionaires too

  28. democracy 28

    The trouble with Key and co is that they believe the level that the operate on in
    relation with the public of NZ is acceptable and that the public are basically thick as to the ramifications of the GCSB and all the other cockups over the last 5 yrs of their govt tenure of this country
    Its quite simple you make this many mistakes on any other job you fuckin gone
    GET WITH THE PROGRAMME KEY OR FUCK OFF
    We dont need to be duped by Crosby Textor and all the other BS shysters in the the pay of the Nats.

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