The Dummies’ Guide to National’s wage policy

Written By: - Date published: 12:35 pm, February 14th, 2008 - 67 comments
Categories: john key, national, workers' rights - Tags: , , ,

I never really understood how National planned to make wages grow because every time our man John Key is asked about our wage-gap with Australia he starts talking about cutting taxes. Here’s a recent example from Morning Report:

Key: Firstly we will raise wages. I mean, after-tax wages will be rising under a National government.

Geoff: How will you do that?

Key: We’ll cut taxes for a start-off…

Geoff: So that’s not raising wages that’s cutting taxes, that’s different.

And like Geoff, I thought wage rises and tax cuts were different too. Then I came across this on youtube:

And I realised! John Key is an underpants gnome:

Stage one: Cut taxes

Stage two: ?

Stages three: Higher wages!

And to think I didn’t believe John had any wage policies. Sorry John.

67 comments on “The Dummies’ Guide to National’s wage policy”

  1. Camryn 1

    That’s pretty funny. I loved that episode.

    I think he doesn’t (and shouldn’t) give a shit about increasing wages, but feels he can’t say it.

    I’d rather he grew the economy. It won’t increase wages as quickly and it’d certainly never reduce income disparity, but it’d give us all a much larger economy to support our needs in the long term.

    Every policy that hinders growth to achieve wage growth and other social objectives now costs us in the long run. It’s a lot like saving. If we could just defer cashing in until we’ve got a bigger principle, we’d be much better off.

    Problem is, we keep on electing National when there’s a recession instead of when they could run the economy hot on the back of good conditions, and voting Labour in when the going’s already good and we don’t need more social focus.

    We relax when the going is good instead of making hay, and then try to implement growth policies when conditions are bad. As a nation, we’re horrible at electing the right party at the right time.

  2. Camryn 2

    It won’t increase wages as quickly *in the short term*, I mean to say. Woops. Long term, though, better off for all.

  3. BeShakey 3

    Interesting second post Camryn. I thought it was internally consistent, although I disagreed as policy. Your position seemed to be that we should focus on growing the economy, without concern to where the benefits of that might lie. Unless you buy into trickle down theory, there doesn’t seem to be any reason to think that this would lead to wage increases for low (or maybe even middle) income earners.

  4. The Double Standard 4

    Yeah Bill, I guess you think WFF is a tax cut as well? No wonder you need a dummies guide. Tell me, what is the difference to the worker between Case 2 and Case 3?

    Case 1:
    Weekly income: $1000
    Weekly tax: $350
    Weekly after-tax: $650

    Case 2:
    Weekly income: $1000
    Weekly tax: $300
    Weekly after-tax: $700

    Case 3:
    Weekly income: $1100
    Weekly tax: $400
    Weekly after-tax: $700

    BTW “for a start” Did you miss that?

  5. Daveo 5

    TDS- appreciate the National research unit figures but they don’t relate to the topic of discussion. How does cutting taxes lift wages?

  6. Aj 6

    He also state Nat tax cuts would mean an average of $45 in the hand to workers. Of course these will be heavily weighted to high incomes so bugger all will be left for people on less than the average wage…

  7. The Double Standard 7

    Daveo – obviously you need the Dummies guide to the Dummies guide.

    Here’s a question for you – if tax cuts don’t improve workers income, why is Cullen offering them?

  8. Daveo 8

    That’s not the question TDS. Tax cuts and wage rises aren’t the same thing, yet John Key said he’d lift wages by cutting taxes – how does that make any sense? They’re two completely different things.

    There’s something else I’ve been thinking. If you’re going to have year on year tax cuts instead of wage increases how is that sustainable? At what point do you stop and say “We’ve looted the state and we’re out of money. Sorry everyone”?

  9. Jeez TDS – you’re a bit grumpy today bro, what’s the matter? Did you get told off about yesterday’s poor performance? Better luck today mate – by the look of this poor attempt at misdirection you’re gonna need it.

  10. The Double Standard 10

    Daveo – Why don’t you ask your bro’s over a Labor?

    Labor’s plan includes the goal over 6 years, by 2013-14, of flattening Australia’s income tax system by reducing the number of personal income tax rates from four to three with a personal income tax scale of 15 per cent, 30 per cent and 40 per cent.

    This plan will deliver assistance to working families under financial pressure and help prepare Australia for its future economic challenges.

    This is a course of action for Australia’s long-term national interest rather than a short term political decision by a government that has had 11 and a half years to fundamentally reform the tax system

    http://www.alp.org.au/media/1007/msloo181.php

  11. Ex Labour Voter 11

    The answer is very simple.

    Do after-tax pay packets rise, or do they not, if taxes are cut?

    Yes they do. Cutting tax raises workers’ disposable incomes.

  12. The Double Standard 12

    Oh, and you might like to take a look at this, although I’m not sure that it is dumbed down enough for you:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/author/story.cfm?a_id=13&objectid=10491555&pnum=0

    I guess Cullen’s wage policy is to jawbone employers?

  13. Daveo 13

    TDS- if this is the best the National research unit has to throw at The Standard then maybe I’ve overestimated you guys. I guess they only put their trainee staffers on the blogs.

    I’ve asked you a simple question- how does cutting taxes increase wages? Quoting me Australian Labor Party policy is a good attempt at misdirection but sadly it’s not an answer.

  14. Ha! – You have your mistake pointed out to you and you make it again (but with a quote this time!) and with spelling mistakes! Jeez TDS you’re really off your game mate. I can hear your KPIs falling from here…

  15. The Double Standard 15

    Yawn. OK Mickey, you have earned your reply-of-the-day.

    Here’s a little test for you – which of my cases above would you prefer, 1, 2, or 3.

    Lets see if that is simple enough for you? And maybe you could get your sock-puppet Daveo to answer as well. Bonus points are available if you give different answers.

  16. Um TDS – I hear you blow goats. What does it taste like? (I figure we’re commenting off thread now…)

  17. Tane 17

    Sod, try to settle down eh? Yes, I know Double’s a humorless attack troll but try not to bring down the tone too much.

  18. The Double Standard 18

    IB: I guess you stopped listening to the clip after you got to your “National-bad” hook. How about quoting the rest of it as well, or doesn’t that help your partisan negative focus on Key?

    Key “It is after tax wages that allows people to save for a deposit or pay for their mortgage. If we were the government today and our tax policy had been rolled out New Zealanders would be $45 a week better off on average. ”

    Geoff “So they’d have the money in their pocket and thus be able to buy a house”

    Key “Well either save for it or pay their mortgage. Thats one element. Secondly there are lots of other things around raising wages in relation to productivity growth. I mean there is all sorts of things you can do ranging from education to unlocking bottlenecks of infrastructure, cutting compliance costs and the like. So I’m not arguing solely taxes, thats one aspect. I’m simply saying raising wages is a very important focus of a National government”

  19. Ex Labour Voter 19

    Why don’t you answer the question, Daveo? Does cutting taxes increase after-tax incomes?

  20. [Deleted. This is your last warning.]

  21. Ex Labour Voter 21

    Seems to me Robinsodo does get a lot of last and final warnings, doesn’t he?

  22. Hey ELV/TDS. Yeah. Once.

  23. Policy Parrot 23

    TDS – The Rudd government has just announced it will only implement stage 1 of the proposed tax cuts, and put the rest conditional to global economic conditions, and the upper income tax reductions on hiatus to focus on building up higher surpluses (which they will not call surpluses in the sense as the money is allocated as part of the year’s official spending) reserves to cope with the likely end of the mining boom and the increasing superannuation burden?

    So will the Libs call this the Swann fund?

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23211626-2702,00.html

  24. The Double Standard 24

    Look, it is obvious to most but the most die-hard lefties that, in the short term, a tax cut is as good as a wage rise, as Key says. More in-the-pocket income for mortgages, or school fees, or plasma TV’s.

    Increasing base wages does not have a simple solution, but many are asking themselves whether they feel better off after 9 years of Teh Party’s policies, and increasingly, the answer is a big fat no.

    (and please keep you stats links under your hats – as the monkey economics link shows, we are not entirely rational, and waving a pretty graph on ‘median incomes’ isn’t likely to win you votes)

  25. The Double Standard 25

    PP – does that make Rudd like Cullen then – promise then disappoint? Or did he put sufficient weasel word in his election campaign?

    Perhaps Labor politicians world-wide can’t be trusted to deliver promised tax cuts? I had thought that Key was drawing a fairly long bow with that theme, but maybe not?

    And isn’t it remarkable that in Australia tax cuts will ease inflationary pressure?

    “Treasurer Wayne Swan today introduced bills for tax cuts which he says will help boost workplace participation and ease the inflationary pressure from a full labour market.

  26. Daveo 26

    But still no actual answers TDS?

    Just “lots of other things around raising wages in relation to productivity growth… ranging from education to unlocking bottlenecks of infrastructure, cutting compliance costs and the like.”

    Sounds a lot like trickle down to me – rely heavily on tax cuts and promise some vague action on infrastructure and ‘compliance costs’.

    If I was earning $12 an hour I’d have very little faith in that. So still nothing concrete from John Key on wages.

  27. Daveo 27

    many are asking themselves whether they feel better off after 9 years of Teh Party’s policies, and increasingly, the answer is a big fat no.

    (and please keep you stats links under your hats – as the monkey economics link shows, we are not entirely rational, and waving a pretty graph on ‘median incomes’ isn’t likely to win you votes)

    So now you’re admitting National is trading on perception rather than reality?

  28. Ex Labour Voter 28

    Just two days ago robinsod gets warned twice in one post and has his comment deleted because it’s so offensive and now he’s got a last warning. One standard for robinsod and one standard for everybody else?

    [lprent:
    not really, it is just that the ‘sod is very very good at walking close to the line.
    If you read our Policy page, you will find that the moderators prefer not to ban.
    I’m more of the BOFH line of thinking myself.]

  29. The Double Standard 29

    Daveo – how about your answer to the question above?

    The Dummies’ Guide to National’s wage policy

  30. Daveo 30

    You mean your figures TDS? It depends on what the effect would be on crown accounts. I don’t want low taxes if it means fewer public services, that’s a recipe for inequality and social deprivation. What I want is higher wages and concrete policies to close the wage gap with Australia. John Key has no answers for either.

  31. Michele Cabiling 31

    Cullen needs to explain why tax cuts are inflationary and Liarbour retaining and spending the same money itself isn’t.

    As for those who wank on about “tax cuts for the rich” it’s their money anyway. If you haven’t paid much tax, you don’t get much of a tax cut. That’s not rocket science.

    Tax cuts effectively increase wages by leaving more after-tax income in workers’ pay packets.

    Tax cuts can be applied in three ways, each of which grows the economy in real terms:

    [1] spent — which increases the demand for goods and services, leading to more employment;

    [2] invested which leads to economic growth; and

    [3] saved — which means the banks lend the money out to businesses for investment which leads to econcomic growth.

    Working For Families is simply taking a dollar off someone, churning it through an unnecessary state bureaucracy that’s nothing but a deadweight on the economy, then giving them back seventy cents.

    Where’s the logic in that — other than to underscore to New Zealanders that they’re serfs on Auntie Helengrad’s plantation.

  32. Of course they are bro – they got nothing else (a bit like our mate TDS).

    So ah TDS – let’s say you’re on about $41,000 (about the average wage) and your total tax paid on that is about 26% (before any WFF rebates).

    You do a tax cut for the first year (let’s say 5% – cos that’s a pretty good but not excessive rise) and that counters the 3.5% inflation you’ve had to deal with (mostly because of petrol prices) and gives you a little more in your pocket.

    Anyway the next year rolls around and you’re now paying 21% in total tax but inflation’s gone up another 3%. So you get a 3% tax cut (‘cos you know that’s how we raise incomes around here). That’s all good and now you’re paying 18% in total tax.

    But then year three and OMG the rate of inflation rockets (probably because of all the money flowing into the economy). It’s at five yeas that’s right 5! percent. We’re all on the road to poverty now if we don’t raise incomes. I know we’ll cut taxes again. Let’s say 5% again just to make sure.

    Ahhhhhh that’s better… You’re only paying 13% in total tax now… But hold on a minute, there’s no money for hospitals and your kids’ school fees are outta control! What you need to offset these costs is another “income rise”…

    You’re a moron TDS and so is anyone else that claims Tax cuts are a sustainable way to raise incomes.

  33. BeShakey 33

    Michele – there has been discussion previously on the questions of tax as theft, tax cuts for the rich etc. Without wanting to rehash too much, the idea that people with lots of money should keep it, and tough on anyone else, is pretty unattractive to people across most of the political spectrum.

    In terms of your claim that tax cuts will necessarily grow the economy – you seem to be assuming a closed economy, in NZ it’s likely that a portion of any tax cuts will go overseas, for instance in overseas investments, as profits for foreign companies etc. Given you seem to be promoting a fairly libertarian approach, it’s likely that in your preferred system a very significant portion of the cuts would go overseas.

  34. Just two days ago robinsod gets warned twice in one post and has his comment deleted because it’s so offensive and now he’s got a last warning

    Yeah bro and Burt repeatedly trolls, gets warned, has comments deleted and is warned again, finally gets banned and is then let back on site early. Jeez I tell yah those lefties get all the sweet treatment. Why don’t you take your Faux outrage somewhere else ELV? It’s getting dull here…

  35. Michele Cabiling 35

    BeShakey wrote:

    “the idea that people with lots of money should keep it, and tough on anyone else, is pretty unattractive to people across most of the political spectrum.”

    Really? Have you talked to them all?

    It’s only attractive to those who assume a God-given right to plunder others — whether for their own benefit — or so that they can spend other people’s money as their entrance fee to “Club Virtue.”

    I’ve got an idea … how about we change the tax system so that those professing all this collectivist concern for their fellow man can sign up to pay whatever tax rate they wish above a basic 10 percent.

    Imagine the bragging rights in leftard circles of being able to say “I only have to pay ten percent tax, but I choose to pay 50 percent.” Another leftard enters the pissing contest: “That’s nothing! I only have to pay ten percent tax, but I choose to pay …”

    Of course, there would soon be those claiming to pay more than 100 percent of their annual income in tax, but then we’d all know who was stealing from their fellow citizens in order to get that warm glow.

  36. And once again Michele shows she has no understanding of what a society does – does that make her a sociopath?

    Honestly ‘chele – I reckon you and the rest of the world’s libertarians should chip in and buy an island together and then turn it into a stateless paradise. At least you’d stop bothering us…

  37. dave 37

    If I had a tax cut my income would effectivly reduce. See if Robinsod can work that one out. Just like he says noone on 70K can buy a house these days.

    Gee this guy is a plain idiot, really.

  38. Hey dave – I know plety of folk on that kind of wicket (combined income – remember?) and higher that can’t afford a house. And if you can’t read my comment about tax properly I’d suggest you are even more retarded than I picked you for. Can’t you got live on ‘chele’s island or something? You could be piggy…

  39. From Tane’s link:

    “libertarianism,’ that peculiarly American philosophy of venal petty-bourgeois dissidence.

    Gold!

  40. Michele Cabiling 41

    Robinsodomite Porton wrote:

    “Honestly ‘chele – I reckon you and the rest of the world’s libertarians should chip in and buy an island together and then turn it into a stateless paradise. At least you’d stop bothering us …”

    Nah, it would mean you and your ilk would stop bothering us … at least insofar as you’d no longer be feeling in my pocket for my wallet (although with a pervert like you I couldn’t be sure it was just my wallet you were after).

    After a few years we’d have to build a barbed wire fence to keep out the millions of refugees from state socialism clamouring to get in there.

  41. dave 42

    people who are on 70K and cant afford a house of say 300 000 dont know how to budget and live within their means.

    OIve read your tax comment and really its pathetic. 5-3.5 is 2.5 but 2.5 is not what you have left. Because of other taxes.

    captcha kong moron.. heh

  42. Leftie 43

    My understanding is the argument is about hourly earnings between us and Australia.
    When I am talking to friends/family/workmates about employment, the conversation usually goes something like “In my (NZ)supermarket job I am earning $11.40 per hour. I know someone that did exactly the same work in Australia, they started on $17 per hour”.
    Nobody talks about taxes, they want to know what the starting rate in a job is.

    National has zero answers to this particular problem.

  43. Shit ‘chele – I’m well in the top tax bracket. I take it you use public roads and other public facilities? I guess that means your hand is in my pocket you filthy bludger. In fact it’s my taxes and my long history of paying taxes that gives you the ability to spout your bullshit in comfort and security. Perhaps you could head to the sudan – I hear they don’t pay taxes there…

    Oh and don’t worry about me fancying you ‘chele, I only date good-looking women.

  44. people who are on 70K and cant afford a house of say 300 000 dont know how to budget and live within their means.

    OIve read your tax comment and really its pathetic. 5-3.5 is 2.5 but 2.5 is not what you have left. Because of other taxes.

    Firstly Mike, you find me a decent three bedroom house in Auckland for $300,000 and I’ll buy it right now.

    Secondly Mike, what other taxes? and if there are other taxes then does that mean we need to cut income tax even more to ensure people stay ahead? And then run the tax base down faster??? It’s like you’re going all out to prove my argument…

  45. Michele Cabiling 46

    Robinsodomite Porton wrote: “Oh and don’t worry about me fancying you ‘chele, I only date good-looking women.”

    The best that money can buy, right?

  46. Well no, but I’m sure they would have a higher market value than you do if we’re gonna quantify stuff…

  47. Michele Cabiling 48

    Robinsodomite … have you ever slept with a woman you haven’t had to buy? Somehow I doubt it very much.

  48. Steve Pierson 49

    Guys. Can we stop the ‘you’re a whore’ ‘you sleep with whores’? Cheers. Also, the homophobia’s a bit off Michele.

  49. Michele Cabiling 50

    [Tane: Deleted – your homophobia will no longer be tolerated]

  50. Michele Cabiling 51

    Principled opposition to unnatural behaviour is not “phobic” at all. That’s just a way of trying to pathologise an opponent rather than engaging with their argument. If you have to do that it simply points up the inherent weakness of any countervailing position you might hold.

    Feeble!

  51. pete 52

    Obviously a tax cut gives your take-home pay a short term boost. But that means there’s less pressure on employers to increase wages — eventually employers will claw back most of the tax cut for themselves by giving out smaller pay-raises than they otherwise would’ve.

    Since this reduces the cost of labour, they’ll invest less in capital, which will slow down economic growth.

    To grow the economy the gov’t needs to:
    1) provide incentives for investment,
    2) use worker-friendly labour law to put upward pressure on wages.

  52. The PC Avenger 53

    Michele, if your opposition to homosexuality was principled, and based solely on your perception of it being ‘unnatural’ then you should also be opposed to any other ‘unnatural’ acts, such as living in a house, cooking your food, and wearing shoes.

    In any case, homosexual behaviour occurs in nature, so .

  53. Michele Cabiling 54

    Not so, buddy. You conflate things that cannot be conflated to advance an illogical sophist argument.

    It’s perfectly natural to use one’s brain to improve one’s quality of life. Living in a house provides comfort and protection from the elements. Cooking food makes its safer (less bacteria), taste better, and bring a wider range of foodstuffs into consumption (eg grains that can’t be properly digested unless cooked

    Homosexuality runs counter to the natural teleology of the body. That which is normal is that which funtions according to its design. The anus is an organ of excretion, not procreation. Heterosexual intercourse creates life. Homosexual intercourse creates nothing but bacterial life. It’s biologically redundant behaviour.

    And to say that because some adolescent animals can be observed practising mounting behaviour together normalises a pathological sexual addiction in humans is drawing a very long bow.

  54. Jeez and y’know what doesn’t occur in nature, PC? Property rights.

  55. natural teleology of the body,???

    If you’re gonna use big words M than you should use them right. teleology has become an essentially phenomenological and deconstructionist term related to causative explanations of, and relating to, is-ness and its narrative. The idea that the biological entity that is the body can have such a thing is a contradiction in terms by definition and in practice. I would suggest Michele that you have made the mistake of too literal a reading of phenomenological theory. Or more likely, given the antiquated nature of your economic theory, are caught in the archaic and philosophically redundant definition of the term as it applies to “vitalism”.

    Don’t worry ‘chele, it’s an easy thing for a fool to do.

  56. Dan 57

    Must we talk in words of one syllable for the people on the right. A tax cut is not the same as a wage rise. A tax cut means reduction of hospital services, roads left unimproved, lousy provision for education, etc ie if you cut taxes, you cut services.
    If you get a wage rise, there is no cut in services, and you can spend the money as you wish rather than paying for services that are cut under a National government. In fact wage rises would mean an increase in the tax take so we could provide more services!!!
    Go Helen!!

  57. Dean 58

    “Must we talk in words of one syllable for the people on the right. A tax cut is not the same as a wage rise. A tax cut means reduction of hospital services, roads left unimproved, lousy provision for education, etc ie if you cut taxes, you cut services.”

    Except when Labour offers them, right? Also, theyre not inflationary, unlike Nationals?

    Honestly. Can’t you come up with anything better?

  58. The PC Avenger 59

    Michele, you shouldn’t be so surprised. I learnt how to conflate and oversimplify things from you.

    Oh, so if something that is unnatural by it’s, ah hah, nature, was developed as a consequence of a natural act, then it then becomes natural in and of itself? What a fascinating idea, and that can be easily used to rationalise homosexual behaviour.

    To address your “teleology’ argument, not all homosexuals enjoy or engage in anal sex. Case in point: Lesbians. Or is your hate only reserved for males?

    As for your ‘mounting’ comment. Hardly. Adult Bonobos regularly engage in homosexual acts, and it is a purely social interaction, thought to have the purpose of increasing the bonds within the troop.

    In any case, your argument was that homosexuality is unnatural, and hence your outspoken views are rational and acceptable. Unfortunately for you, the evidence says otherwise. Homosexuality occurs in nature, and not just in primates. If I recall correctly, there’s also a pair of male penguins that have been going through the motions of mating behaviour.

  59. The Double Standard 60

    Dan – must be galling for you that Helen is selling tax cuts all over?

  60. Policy Parrot 61

    “Homosexuality runs counter to the natural teleology of the body. That which is normal is that which funtions according to its design. The anus is an organ of excretion, not procreation. Heterosexual intercourse creates life. Homosexual intercourse creates nothing but bacterial life. It’s biologically redundant behaviour.”

    I gather then Michele that you have never had sex except in order to create off-spring?

    Otherwise your argument is hypocritical.

  61. Murray 62

    Tane – blowing goats is illegal. The part of Robinsods post where he/she accuses TDS of this act should have been deleted due to the illegal nature of the act. Your reprimand was pathetic, unless of course you think blowing goats is OK.

  62. Dan 63

    Dean and Double Standard old chaps,it is not in the least bit galling!! If John Key can swallow dead rats all over the place (He’s the King of Ratatouile), then I am sure Clark and Cullen can do the same on one or two issues. The fascinating thing at the moment is the gradual realisation across the spectrum that cuts cannot amount to much, that the Nats much vaunted “Vote for us and you will win the equivalent of Lotto’ is nonsense, and the only ones who will win are those very fortunate few in favour of a strategic deficit that results from the big spend. I would prefer my $20 or $30 per week or whatever was spent on roads, hospitals, energy development.
    When tax is effectively kneecapped as an issue, then what has National got? Boot camps? Increases in doctors’ fees? Bulkfunding in education? Yeh……..right!

    I waste my gall on the level of debate in this column. We are talking about tax and wages aren’t we? There sure are some cretins out there. I don’t believe they belong to any party!

  63. AncientGeek 64

    Cam: the problem is that the tories have this tendency to take gains in the short-term. Anyone can do that, just burn muscle while saying you’re burning fat.

    On in the case of an economy, rather than putting in the infrastructure of plant and training required for the next level of growth rate, go and spend it instead. Waste it on maintaining high levels of unemployment (cheaper than effective training), inadequete education, bad public health, and taxcuts.

    The problem comes after you’ve burnt out the economic drivers, there is little capacity for growth. To get it you have to put more money in than if you’d kept on a steady pace of investment in infrastructure all of the time.

    But that is the tory trademark – run down the systems and cry about the law and order consequences a generation later.

  64. Dean 65

    ” I would prefer my $20 or $30 per week or whatever was spent on roads, hospitals, energy development.”

    If you had it given back to you as a tax cut, would you just donate it to the IRD as a testament to your convictions? After all, it amounts to the same thing. But of course, that would require you taking responsibility for your own money instead of letting the government handle that for you.

    Why is this such a problem?

  65. Michele Cabiling 66

    This is a long post.

    IrishBill says: yes too long Michele and you’ve posted most of this before. In the interest of brevity, try linking back to your old comments and sources next time.

  66. chris 67

    Tory, political designation, the meaning of which is, as usual, complex and ambivalent. Originally applied to Irish Catholic bandits, it was used derisively in the seventeenth century to characterize defenders of the principals of hereditary succession to the crown and non-resistance to the monarch. During the eighteenth century it was applied to conservatives who insisted upon the constituted authority of the Church of England, upon the divine right of kingship, and upon parliamentary privilege predicated upon the ownership of land.

    The Tory power base was the conservative rural squirearchy, which was violently opposed to the taxation required to pay for the wars with France that the Whigs stood rather to profit by.

    http://www.victorianweb.org/history/Tory.html

    Four hundred years on and they still have their “born to rule” attitudes.
    Captcha, “fair industries”

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    Yesterday Ihumātao's mana whenua reached a consensus that they would like their land back, and asked the government to negotiate with Fletcher's for its return. The government's response? Try and undermine that consensus, while talking about how doing anything would undermine existing Treaty settlements. The first is just more bad ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    21 hours ago
  • Protecting our history
    Its Suffrage Day, the 126th anniversary of women winning the right to vote (but not stand in elections) in New Zealand. And to celebrate, the government has bought Kate Sheppard's house in Christchurch:The government has bought Kate Sheppard's former home in Christchurch for more than $4 million. The Ilam villa ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    22 hours ago
  • Climate Change: Ostracising the coal-burners
    The UN climate summit is happening in new York next week, and unlike previous years, coal-burners and denier-states are not being invited to speak:Leading economies such as Japan and Australia will not be invited to speak at next week’s crunch UN climate change summit, as their continued support for coal ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    22 hours ago
  • Jojo Tamihere Salutes Herr Goff.
    Get Back Jojo! The elation in Mayor Phil Goff’s camp may be easily imagined as they watched social media light up in indignation at challenger John Tamihere’s "Sieg Heil to that" quip. Just when JT’s notoriously right-wing, sexist and homophobic stains were beginning to fade back into his ‘colourful’ past, ...
    1 day ago
  • Hard News: A fun but flawed weed documentary
    Patrick Gower is good value when he's high. Not that I've ever, you know, got stoned with him. But in the second part of his documentary Patrick Gower on Weed, he does what you'd expect in a modern weed documentary and immerses himself – first with a doctor, then a ...
    1 day ago
  • Candidate Survey: Western Bay of Plenty – Local Body Elections 2019
    We surveyed candidates on their attitudes to issues facing the Western Bay Region, find out what they think: “Closing the Gap” Tauranga, one of the area groups of Income Equality Aotearoa NZ Inc., has surveyed all candidates in the three local body elections to discover attitudes to some basic issues ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 days ago
  • Project Nettie calls on scientists to defend biology
    Please spread widely, and sign, to support science and rationalism over the new irrationalism sweeping universities and institutions.  PROJECT NETTIE Sexual reproduction, the generation of offspring by fusion of genetic material from two different individuals, evolved over 1 billion years ago. It is the reproductive strategy of all higher animals ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 days ago
  • I’m glad I don’t live in Auckland
    Just when I was thinking that Palmerston North's mayoral race (which includes a convicted child molester / public wanker and a convicted child beater) was the worst in the country, Auckland mayoral candidate John Tamihere opened his mouth:Auckland mayoral candidate John Tamihere is being slammed for using the words "sieg ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Index of Power Update, 2018-19: China #2
    We reprint below an article from the excellent website the Economics of Imperialism by Tony Norfield This is an update of the statistics for my Index of Power, using data for 2018-19 and discussing what a country’s ranking reflects. The major change is that China’s rank has shifted up and ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 days ago
  • Climate Change: A history lesson
    Why is New Zealand climate change policy so crap? The Herald this morning has a long article on the twists and turns of climate change policy in New Zealand [paywalled / depaywall script], which shows where we've been. The short version is that the government first began worrying about this ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • What the All Blacks Mean to Us
    The All Blacks have been, for more than a century, arguably the most successful International sports team in the world. But they are more than that; even for those Kiwis who are immune to the charms of rugby (and there are more than a few), the All Blacks are ambassadors ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 days ago
  • No one is born into the wrong body
    A short and incredibly powerful speech from a young lesbian woman. No one is born in the wrong body. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    3 days ago
  • Contempt
    Back in June, the UK Court of Appeal ruled that that country's continued arms sales to Saudi Arabia were unlawful. So you'd expect that the UK government stopped approving them, right?Of course not:The government has apologised for breaching a court ruling against the sale of weapons to Saudi Arabia that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Covering up the cover-up
    Yesterday NZDF officials were put on the stand about the lies they had told over Operation Burnham, making implausible claims that it was all a big mistake. But along the way, we learned they had already been put on the spot about it by a previous Defence Minister, who had ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Not as important as they think they are
    Farmers have been whining a lot lately, about the methane targets in the Zero Carbon Bill, about Canterbury's proposed nitrogen limits, and about the government's new proposals to stop them from shitting in our lakes and rivers. These policies are "throwing farmers under the tractor", they will force farmers off ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Behind Every Good Woman Should Stand – Another Good Woman.
    Alone, Alone, All, All, Alone: To argue that the Prime Minister is the victim of her advisers’ failure to keep her informed may offer Jacinda some measure of exoneration – but only at the cost of casting her as a hopeless political ingénue. A star-dusted muppet, whose only purpose is to ...
    3 days ago
  • Poor quality, poorly educated kiddie ‘Journalists’ spreading fake news
    In times of hysteria about the “World coming to an end” and “rising sea levels” so-called ‘Journalists’ who can barely spell words longer than four letters are having a ball! Though the majority of the Public have worked out that manmade climate change is nothing short of pseudo-science, and the ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    3 days ago
  • Chris Trotter on the BFD
    I don't want to give pblicity to certain parts of the internet that are better left to fester in their own irrelevance (I know, a bit like this place) but the listing of Chris Trotter as a 'author' on Cameron Slater's spinoff website, the BFD requires some explanation.Now, I don't ...
    3 days ago
  • Sex is not a spectrum
    The text below is a Twitter thread by Heather Heying that explains the essence of sexual reproduction and it long evolutionary history. She is an evolutionary biologist and a “professor-in-exile” after she and her husband, Bret Weinstein, stood up to supporters of an enforced “Day of Absence” for white staff and teachers ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    3 days ago
  • Climate Change: Trees, aviation, and offsets
    With crunch time for new Zealand climate policy approaching, most of the New Zealand media have got on board with a global reporting effort to cover the issue. There's one strand of stories today about polling and what it shows about changing public attitudes to the crisis, but the strand ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Pissing-Off The Israelis Is A High-Risk Strategy.
    Dangerous Foes: For those readers of Bowalley Road who feel disposed to dismiss any prospect of an Israeli destabilisation of New Zealand politics, the example of the United Kingdom repays close attention. Ever since the election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the British Labour Party, the Israelis have sanctioned, funded and ...
    4 days ago
  • Something to go to in Wellington
    Make It 16, the youth-led campaign to lower New Zealand's voting age, is holding an official campaign launch at Parliament this Friday from 16:30. If you'd like to attend, you can register using EventBrite here. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • A founding member responds to Peace Action Wellington
    by Don Franks It was a lovely sunny Wellington afternoon with blue skies above  the beaches.  In Courtenay Place, political activists packed out a stuffy upstairs room for an important meeting. The assembled pacifists, anarchists, communists and independent young radicals of Peace Action Wellington felt the need for a mission ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    4 days ago
  • “Mistakes and errors”
    Current and former NZDF top brass are being publicly grilled this week by the hit and run inquiry over their public responses to allegations of civilian casualties. Previously, they've claimed there were no casualties, a position which led them to lie to Ministers and to the public. Now, they're saying ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • “Homosexuality is same-sex attraction and relationships, not heterosexuals with delusions of gende...
    by Rafael D. Quiles (gender-critical gay man from Puerto Rico) The writing on the wall is right in people’s faces and people just don’t see it or don’t want to. What could actually possess a heterosexual male to want to feminize himself and claim that he is a lesbian? Because ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    4 days ago
  • Trump: “Where’s my favourite dictator?”
    From the Wall Street Journal:Inside a room of the ornately decorated Hotel du Palais during last month’s Group of Seven summit in Biarritz, France, President Trump awaited a meeting with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah Al Sisi. Mr. Trump looked over a gathering of American and Egyptian officials and called out in ...
    5 days ago
  • Magdalen Burns, 1983-2019, fighter for women’s liberation
    by the Redline blog collective At Redline we are very saddened to hear of the death of Magdalen Burns who passed away on the morning of Friday, September 13 (British time). Magdalen was a great fighter for the rights of women in general and lesbian women in particular, a defender ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    6 days ago
  • Parliament and the Executive
    The Brexit issue has certainly brought with it a series of apparently difficult constitutional issues, many of them concerning the respective roles of the executive and parliament. Most of them arise because of the unwillingness of MPs, despite their professions to the contrary, to be bound by a constitutional rarity ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    6 days ago
  • The Abigail Article; Martyn Bradbury’s Article, and My Response
    . . This blogpost is different to my usual format of reporting on issues… Since July 1011, I have blogged on a variety of political issues; near always political and/or environmental; mostly highly critical of the previous National Government. Other issues included Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands and repression of ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    6 days ago
  • Police will have to wear silly Buckingham Palace hats from now on, says Police Minister
    Those close to the Police Minister believe the initiative may be the result of Nash “seeing a great deal” on AliExpress. In a move that comes seemingly out of nowhere, Police Minister Stuart Nash announced this afternoon that he expects all frontline staff to don bearskin hats, famously worn by ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    7 days ago
  • A sensible crackdown
    The government has released its Arms Legislation Bill, containing the second tranche of changes to gun laws following the March 15 massacre. And it all looks quite sensible: a national gun register, higher penalties for illegal possession and dealing, tighter restrictions on arms dealers and shooting clubs, and a shorter ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • California bans private prisons
    Private prisons are a stain on humanity. Prison operators explicitly profit from human misery, then lobby for longer prisons terms so they can keep on profiting. And in the US, prison companies run not only local and state prisons, but also Donald Trump's immigration concentration camps. Faced with this moral ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Why PPPs are a bad idea
    When National was in power, they were very keen on Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) - basicly, using private companies to finance public infrastructure as a way of hiding debt from the public. They were keen on using them for everything - roads, schools, hospitals. But as the UK shows, that "service" ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • A Movement That No Longer Moves.
    Moving And Shaking: There was a time when people spoke matter-of-factly about the “labour movement” – a political phenomenon understood to embrace much more than the Labour Party. Included within the term’s definition was the whole trade union movement – many of whose members looked upon the Labour Party as ...
    7 days ago
  • NZ ‘left’ politically embracing extreme postmodernism
    by Philip Ferguson Much of the left, even people who formally identify as marxists, have collapsed politically in the face of postmodern gender theory of the sort pioneered by American philosopher Judith Butler. For Butler even biological sex is socially constructed. “If the immutable character of sex is contested, perhaps ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The obvious question
    The media is reporting that the (alleged) Labour party sexual assaulter has resigned from their job at Parliament, which means hopefully he won't be turning up there making people feel unsafe in future. Good. But as with everything about this scandal, it just raises other questions. Most significantly: why the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The moment I found out that you found out, I acted swiftly
    By Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern I am every bit as angry as you are. I am every bit as disappointed as you must be. The people with power, oversight and the ability to do something about these processes within the Labour Party should be ashamed. Whoever those people are, I ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • This is why people hate property developers
    Property developers think there is an "oversupply" of houses in Auckland:High turnover rates and falling prices may be a sign that there are too many new houses going in to some parts of Auckland, commentators say. [...] Property developer David Whitburn said there was a "bit of an oversupply" in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Australia to Pacific: “Fuck you, you can all drown”
    World leaders are meeting in New York in two weeks for the 2019 Climate Action Summit, where they are expected to announce new and more ambitious targets to stop the world from burning. But the Australian Prime Minister won't be there, despite being in the USA at the time:Scott Morrison ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Implausible ignorance
    Labour Party president Nigel Haworth resigned yesterday over the party's sexual assault scandal. But while that's good news, its unlikely to take away the stench of a coverup. Because according to Paula Bennett in Parliament yesterday, pretty much everyone in the Prime Minister's office was involved as well:I have been ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Labour’s Fatal Flaw.
     Two-Faced? Labour insiders' commitment to the neoliberal status quo puts them at odds with their party’s membership; its trade union affiliates; and a majority of Labour voters, but this only serves to strengthen the perception they have of themselves as a special elite. Among the lesser breeds, they’ll talk up a ...
    1 week ago
  • Ten reasons the Tories do NOT want an election
    There has been a lot of talk about Boris Johnson wanting an election, and he has blustered with great gusto about 'chicken' Jeremy Corbyn refusing one, but I think there are many reasons why he is secretly glad he has been refused the opportunity:The Tories are an utter rabble,tearing themselves ...
    1 week ago
  • Prorogation Illegal, rule Scottish judges
    Scottish appeal court judges have declared that Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament in the run-up to the October Brexit deadline is unlawful. The three judges, chaired by Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, overturned an earlier ruling that the courts did not have the powers to interfere in the prime ...
    1 week ago
  • Let me explain what I meant by Everyday New Zealanders
    By Simon Bridges. The following is a press release from the office of Simon Bridges, leader of The National Party. Key ora, New Zealand. Happy Maori Language Week. Look, I’m writing to you today because I want to clear something up. There’s been a lot of kerfuffle around some things ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Yes, the SIS is subject to the Public Records Act
    I understand there's some stuff going round about how the SIS "was removed from the list of public offices covered by the Public Records Act in 2017". The context of course being their records derived from US torture, which will be disposed of or sealed. The good news is that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • An evidence-based discussion of the Canadian fluoride/IQ study
    Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Australia in denial
    Australia is burning down again, and meanwhile its natural disaster minister is denying climate change:Australia’s minister responsible for drought and natural disasters, David Littleproud, has said that he doesn’t “know if climate change is manmade”. Clarifying earlier comments that the question is “irrelevant” when considering the Coalition government’s response to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Philippines activist speaking on the Duterte tyranny
    Auckland Philippines Solidarity is excited to host Professor Judy Taguiwalo for a speaking tour of NZ in September. She is a well-known activist in the Philippines and was a political prisoner under the Marcos dictatorship. Professor Taguiwalo briefly served as a Cabinet member under President Duterte but was forced from ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Disgust
    I have no special insights to offer on the Labour sexual assault coverup. All I have is disgust. Disgust that an organisation could fail its people so badly. Disgust that they punished the victims rather than the perpetrator. Disgust that its party hacks are apparently blaming the victims for demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women calls out Greens’ censorship
    This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Member’s Day: End of Life Choice, part 3
    Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Flight to Los Angeles turned back after passengers decide they don’t want to go anymore
    An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
    There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    1 week ago
  • Union solidarity with Ihumatao land occupation
    by Daphna Whitmore Every Sunday for the past two months unionists from First Union, with supporters from other unions, have set out to the Ihumatao land protest, put up gazebos and gas barbeques, and cooked food for a few hundred locals and supporters who have come from across the country. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: The wrong kind of trees?
    Newsroom today has an excellent, in-depth article on pine trees as carbon sinks. The TL;DR is that pine is really good at soaking up carbon, but people prefer far-less efficient native forests instead. Which is understandable, but there's two problems: firstly, we've pissed about so long on this problem that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • No freedom of speech in Turkey
    Canan Kaftancioglu is a Turkish politician and member of the opposition Republican People's Party (CHP). Like most modern politicians, she tweets, and uses the platform to criticise the Turkish government. She has criticised them over the death of a 14-year-old boy who was hit by a tear gas grenade during ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Speaker: Tadhg Stopford: Why I’m standing for the ADHB
    Hi there, just call me Tim.We face tough problems, and I’d like to help, because there are solutions.An Auckand District Health Board member has nominated me for as a candidate for the ADHB, because her MS-related pain and fatigue is reduced with hemp products from Rotorua.  Nothing else helped her. If I ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Good little vassals
    The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has published their report on whether the SIS and GCSB had any complicity in American torture. And its damning. The pull quote is this:The Inquiry found both agencies, but to a much greater degree, the NZSIS, received many intelligence reports obtained from detainees who, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Who Shall We Turn To When God, And Uncle Sam, Cease To Defend New Zealand?
    Bewhiskered Cassandra? Professor Hugh White’s chilling suggestion, advanced to select collections of academic, military and diplomatic Kiwi experts over the course of the past week, is that the assumptions upon which Australia and New Zealand have built their foreign affairs and defence policies for practically their entire histories – are ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The Politics of Opposition
    For most of the time I was a British MP, my party was out of government – these were the Thatcher years, when it was hard for anyone else to get a look-in. As a front-bencher and shadow minister, I became familiar with the strategies required in a parliamentary democracy ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • More expert comments on the Canadian fluoride-IQ paper
    The Green et al (2019) fluoride/IQ is certainly controversial – as would be expected from its subject (see If at first you don’t succeed . . . statistical manipulation might help and Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear). Anti-fluoride campaigners have been actively promoting it ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The return to guerrilla war in Colombia
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh On August 29th a video in which veteran FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) commander Iván Márquez announced that they had taken up arms again was released. There was no delay in the reaction to it, from longtime Liberal Party figure and former president Uribe, for ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago

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