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The “jihadi brides” lie

Written By: - Date published: 7:02 am, March 17th, 2016 - 74 comments
Categories: iraq, making shit up, national, spin, war - Tags: , , , , ,

Remember this?

Kiwi Jihadi brides on the rise

New Zealand Jihadi brides are known to have taken part in “weddings” before heading to Islamic State (IS) stronghold Syria, Prime Minister John Key has revealed.

In this 2015 beat-up about the risk of terrorism in NZ the lie by omission, as was revealed yesterday, is that the so-called “jihadi brides” being discussed here did not leave from NZ. The SIS now admits that they were NZ citizens resident in and departing from Australia. Keep that in mind as we read on from the above:

Key confirmed the information after SIS boss Rebecca Kitteridge revealed a rise in the number of young New Zealand women heading to Iraq and Syria.

New Zealand women not actually resident in NZ that is.

Key said after the committee there was “no question one or two people have left” for Syria and they and were known to have engaged in weddings “effectively at the very last minute”.

One or two? So – one then? Have left for Syria, but not left from NZ.

Kitteridge said after the committee hearing the numbers leaving from New Zealand were small but significant – but declined to give further details. But she confirmed it was fewer than a dozen.

The report says “the numbers leaving from New Zealand”, so this was clearly the impression given, but it is not a direct quote from Kitteridge, who can claim not to have lied – except by omission. (There was some discussion last night on what Kitteridge said to Parliament, which seems to be similarly by omission.)

Never in the flurry of coverage afterwards, or in response to the shocked reaction of the local Muslim community, did anyone from the government clarify that the “brides” were not NZ residents. Lying by omission – we have been mislead:

Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei said Key and Kitteridge had “misled the nation”. She called on the pair to apologise to Muslim women.

“This is John Key using spy agencies, yet again, for his own political purposes. He misled New Zealanders into thinking that there were large numbers of Muslim women leaving New Zealand to go to Islamic State. “That is not true.” She said the claims were “denigrating” for an already vulnerable community.

Andrew Little:

Mr Little said the government did nothing to correct the impression the women were leaving from New Zealand. “If the government knew at that time, or shortly after, that none of these people were resident in New Zealand, before they’d gone to Syria, then they have deliberately and calculatedly created an impression that simply wasn’t correct, that is there was a security risk that simply didn’t exist.

Exactly. But don’t worry, here’s the Nats’ brilliant and persuasive Chris Finlayson to explain:

Mr Little’s view was rejected by Mr Finlayson. “That’s simply mistaken, it’s wrong, no I don’t think that at all.”

Thanks for sorting all that out for us Chris.


Peter Dunne had it right all along.

74 comments on “The “jihadi brides” lie ”

  1. Incognito 1

    The end justifies the means. This means that again this Government is hell-bent to manipulate public opinion on complex and controversial issues and not interested in genuine debate and open & transparent sharing of important & relevant information. Genuine debate is an absolute requirement for a healthy functional democracy. Enough said.

    • Murray Simmonds 1.1

      “Genuine debate is an absolute requirement for a healthy functional democracy.”

      Absolutely correct, Incognito.

      As far as I can make out, many in this Government are INCAPABLE of reasoned debate – Key in particular. One needs only to watch the farce that passes for Question Time in Parliament to see that:

      Questions are routinely ignored in favour of petty point-scoriong, most of it completely off-topic.

      And no one is pulled up by the Speaker for failing to answer the question. As long as they incoherently mumble a few slurs directed at the Opposition, that will do for an answer.

      Key in particular sets the tone, and does so abysmally.

    • NZJester 1.2

      As part of this current National Government manipulation, they have already turned a lot of question time in parliament into a joke with all the made up figures, cherry picked figures, refusing to accept opposition figures because they came from non government sources, obfuscation of the truth, answering questions with answers to a totally different question to the one being asked, blaim the problem on the previous Labour Government or simply attacking the opposition to avoid answering a question.
      They also love to do the obviously pre-written questions and answers between themselves that looked like they have rehearsed it with each other prior to doing it in parliament.
      Then the MSM blindly ignore this a lot of the time and lap up everything that National says is the truth until it is way to obvious that they have lied and then try and help them play down the extent of the lie with spin by predominantly featuring opinion pieces by National brown noses.

    • Chooky 1.3

      +100..the lies are a disgrace….not that anyone believed it in the first place!

  2. Lucy 2

    And this is the woman who was going to clean up the SIS. She came out of the DPMC and is a member of the establishment. The spy agencies need to be disestablished as I am no safer with them around. That is what the job of the spy agencies to keep me and the rest of the 4 million people with NZ passports and residency visa’s safe from harm.

  3. Sabine 3

    gosh the dairy news must be bad if we are back to Jihadi brides.

  4. adam 4

    When did the state decide it could tell me what I could do in the bedroom again?

    When did the state decide on who I could marry?

    When did the state decide who I could fall in love with?

    Terrorism, the BIG lie – to keep people fearful, and disengaged with democracy.

  5. So, in summary, Kitteridge misled Parliament and Key misled the nation. Obviously, heads will have to roll.*

    *heads won’t roll.

    • pat 5.1

      no heads will not roll….it is a well known and accepted fact that Key lies and surrounds himself with sycophants….and those that vote for National are unconcerned.

    • Sabine 5.2

      it’s ok when National does it.

    • Mike C 5.3

      @TeReoPutake

      But they were New Zealanders becoming Jihadi Brides … and all travelling on New Zealand Passports.

      Just because they were living in Aussie … doesn’t alter the fact that they were New Zealand citizens.

      • Key and Kitteridge claimed they were leaving directly from NZ to go wage jihad. Big difference.

        • Mike C 5.3.1.1

          @TRP

          But those young Kiwi Women did leave New Zealand at some point in time and ended up as Islamic State Jihadi Brides.

          What bothers me the most about this … is that nobody in here seems at all concerned about the fact that official New Zealand passports are falling into the hands of Terrorists.

          Regardless of whether you are a Left or Right Voter … shouldn’t all of us as New Zealanders feel concerned about that … rather than focusing on the technicality of what was said or written on this subject in Parliament … and splitting hairs?

          • te reo putake 5.3.1.1.1

            It’s hugely different to allow it to be thought that they were leaving directly from here. It’s fear mongering, at the very least. It adds to the stigma Muslims face in NZ.

            You are right about the passport matter, but other countries use Kiwi passports for their spies, and those could also be used in support of terrorism. So, I don’t know what the answer is, given that removing passports from people is a last resort.

            • Mike C 5.3.1.1.1.1

              @TRP

              So do most people believe that John Key gave that impression deliberately … or that he just got his facts wrong … and are voters going to care about this subject in a years time during the lead up to the next Election?

              With regards to the passports … I do hope that once those women were identified as being Jihadi Brides that their New Zealand Passports were cancelled so that they would need to jump through heaps of difficult hoops if they ever want to return to either New Zealand or Australia.

              • Personally I hope the passports aren’t cancelled. These duped women need support and guidance, not condemnation.

                • Mike C

                  @TRP

                  I understand what you are saying … but if any of them come back … we won’t know what sort of indoctrination they will have been through … so surely it is better to err on the side of caution and make sure that the women aren’t capable of harming any other New Zealanders upon their return.

                  Sadly … from what I can gather … the chances of any Jihadi Brides returning to New Zealand or Australia alive … are remote.

                  • Bastables

                    So inspite of not knowing anything on their “indoctrination” we should just be afraid…..

                    • Mike C

                      @Bastables

                      The Islamic State want to kill off Western Society and take over the World.

                      It’s not Rocket Science.

                    • One Two []

                      ISIS is not what you believe it to be, and surely is not the global threat. Such nonsense was rebuked years ago

                      It’s those who sponsor, arm and fund these groups who you should be concerned about

                  • Bastables

                    @Mike C
                    It does seem to not be rocket science, more fabulist imaginings as Daesh seems to be more involved in fighting Shia majority states while executing other Muslims (including shia) than putting together galleys to take malta or cannonading the walls of Byzantium to rubble.

          • Bastables 5.3.1.1.2

            Number of times NZ passports have been used for attacks on the west 0.

            Number of times fear mongering lies concerning a religious minority have been used for political gain by JK and Kittridge, at lease 1.

          • whatisis 5.3.1.1.3

            So some most likely arabish? girls left NZ for Aus then partook of their culturally acceptable ways and went home? to marry arabish blokes who are basically mercenaries paid by whomever has the dosh.

            Terrorists or Freedom fighters, I couldn’t give a rats arse about them. And they don’t scare me at all.

            I am scared of the CIA NSA USA war machine that has perpetrated the travesty over there, and our/your fear of the bogeyman is equally frightening.

            NZ passports in the hands of those fighters is irrelevant, CIA false flagging in this nation is my real fear.

    • International Rescue 5.4

      No-one misled anyone. These women are NZ citizens. That’s all that matters. Another left wing failed slag fest.

      • joe90 5.4.1

        No-one misled anyone.

        Finlayson lied.

        Minister in charge of the SIS, Christopher Finlayson, believed the women who were leaving New Zealand did not know what they were letting themselves in for.

        http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/291741/'jihadi-brides'-could-be-free-to-return-to-nz

        • In Vino 5.4.1.1

          Furthermore, the deliberate misuse of a ½-truth constitutes intentional deceit, which is so close to a deliberate lie that (to my mind) it does not matter.

          • International Rescue 5.4.1.1.1

            What was the lie? That’s right, there wasn’t one. These are NZ citizens travelling to fight for a mongrel terrorist group. In their pursuit of an irrational dislike of the government you are making yourself look like a fool.

        • International Rescue 5.4.1.2

          That’s a media report of an alleged comment. Quote Finlayson’s statement verbatim. As I said, no-one misled anyone. These women left nz an became jihadi brides. The left continues to twist itself in knots overIslam, it really is hilarous.

          [lprent: quote it yourself, you lazy fuckwit. You have fingers, use them for something other than excavating your arsehole and flinging the results around. ]

          • joe90 5.4.1.2.1

            That’s a media report of an alleged comment.

            Of course, Luegenpresse!.
            //

            • International Rescue 5.4.1.2.1.1

              Quote Finlayson’s statement verbatim.

              [lprent: Get off your lazy arsehole and quote it yourself if you want it. And don’t ever order anyone else on the site, or I will order you off the site. This is your warning. I really don’t like ignorant fuckwits like you trying to make rules here. Read the policy.]

    • Of course they won’t, but we should bloody demand it as long as possible to turn this into a huge embarrassment.

    • mosa 5.6

      In that case a public hanging should solve the problem

      [lprent: Don’t advocate violence on this site. This is your warning. Read the policy. ]

  6. North 6

    Sickening that the redfaced toff Finlayson should snarl denial of what is patently obvious. Information was withheld. Accordingly the wilfully painted picture looked very different from the real picture as we now know it.

    Finlayson’s hissy fit underlines that and compounds the deceit. Come to think of it that’s about all the strange redfaced gentleman is good for. Hissy fits. Witness the Lady Grantham (Downton Abbey) apoplexies this self appointed Queen’s Counsel gets itself into in response to Metiria Turei’s very existence.

  7. vto 7

    John Key’s bare-faced lies are well accepted by many New Zealanders. We are being encouraged by the “leadership” to act and behave in certain ways. Other examples additional to lying being ok – the ends justify the means, and the self is the number one..

    The pent-up storm current thrashing the US around Trump supporters, has come about by way of similar activity over there, according to some commentators.

    Wait for it to happen here – the exact same bullshite goes on here courtesy of Key. Key leads the way and shows the way.

    Lies don’t matter
    Greed is good.
    Win at all costs.

    I don’t like the behaviour and standards Key is showing our people …

    It is very bad in some many ways

  8. ianmac 8

    Key lead Kitteridge into that admission to the Select Committee. Then Key was the one who said they were “Jihadi brides.” He knew the answer that he wanted before he asked. Kitteridge said that some women were going overseas but did not know why they went or what the did. Key then added the “brides” bit knowing that it was going to grab the headlines. And he was right.
    Cunning? Unscrupulous? Leave the blame with Kitteridge?

    • Anne 8.1

      Interesting observation ianmac. And it might not be the first time he’s lead a security agency’s director up the garden path. I strongly suspect the former SIS director, Warren Tucker may have been similarly set up to take the blame for the Phil Goff debacle. Intelligence agency bosses are not in a position to answer back.

  9. Stuart Munro 9

    Well, I’ve walked down the aisle
    Like Salma and Zahra
    But I’ve always stood off to the side
    Each bride has me dressed
    In hijabs I detest
    Always a jihadi bridesmaid, never the bride…

  10. Grim 10

    It’s another one of the small lies, it’s bad and points to worst but doesn’t directly effect voters.

    Labour needs to keep on the farmer issues and ensure farmers see the truth that National have betrayed them, tricked them all along.

    Farmers could be Labours strongest supporters next election.

    Voters are not the enemy, don’t force voters to admit they were wrong,

    Admitting you were wrong vs Admitting you were tricked

    National supports need to be allowed to swap sides.

    if framed poorly voters will not change support as this is an admission of guilt or being wrong, pride comes into play.
    Frame it in terms of betrayal(which it is) and the voters can change support and any negative feeling are turned towards the betrayer, and the voter that was tricked can play the victim.

    Little needs to be talking directly to farmers and their lobby groups, help them step across.

  11. shorts 11

    They keep lying to us and there is so little accountability… by next week it will just be another entry in the big list of lies we’ve been told by this govt

    While they seek to give even more power to our spy agencies, which while concerning I am even more terrified that I reckon they don’t even care or know why they need to gift this additional power to our spies, they just know they can and its what everyone else is doing

  12. Sirenia 12

    There was another issue brewing at the time that was bad for the government but suddenly the ‘jihadi brides’ headlines took over. Can’t remember what the issue was, but this was an obvious set-up to divert attention.

  13. Nick Morris 13

    I certainly hope that National Party supporters enjoy being played for credulous idiots. They must certainly be used to it by now.

  14. Vinnie 14

    Maybe journalists should follow each answer with a clarifying question.
    “Sorry are you talking about New Zealanders in New Zealand or not”
    What other clarifying questions might be needed to rule out future mistaken impressions.
    It may be a long list!

  15. Doug 15

    Labour leader Andrew Little, a member of the Intelligence and Security Committee alongside Mr Key, says he gained the impression at the time that the women were resident in New Zealand when they left.

    • Reddelusion 15.1

      Why is it even relevant where they flew from or stopped at Disney land on the way, the issue is they can come back and there are kiwis who sympathise and are willing to act on the ISiS cause KDS rampant on this posting

      • In Vino 15.1.1

        It is relevant because the DGSE sorry GCSB sorry SIS does its work in NZ, and those ‘Jihadi Brides’ were not even in NZ, but by some strange logic we are supposed to be keen to give SIS more powers in NZ. Simple deceptive scaremongering.

      • Anne 15.1.2

        The main reason it matters whether these “jihadi Brides” were living in NZ when they left to join ISIS is the effect the publicity must have had on Muslim women actually resident in NZ. Apart from the obvious suspicion they would face, they also immediately became vulnerable to verbal and physical attacks. Given what most of them has already been through before reaching NZ, the fear of what might happen to them would have been palpable

  16. Tautuhi 16

    Part of JK and National’s hysteria dog whistling politics?

    • Stuart Munro 16.1

      A distractor from the rockstar economy sh*tting itself. Where will Biil & John find actual growth now? Their illusion of competence is over.

  17. Chuck 17

    They are NZ passport holders end of story. If they left from Australia or NZ does not matter one bit. Radical Muslims are a huge danger to all of Western Society (and moderate Muslin society’s as well).

    • In Vino 17.1

      Oh Diddums. Tewwible Tewwowists are coming to get us!!!

      Rubbish. NZ has far more to fear from climate change and pollution than from dose norty tewworwists.

      Chuck, you really need to get informed and grow up.

      • Reddelusion 17.1.1

        when our government sent troops to Iraq the vitriol on this site on how jk was endangering us all was a constant theme, I guesse nothing to worry about now or simply jKDS

        • In Vino 17.1.1.1

          No, my thought was just that we were again supporting a foolish, lost cause, just as we did in Vietnam. But don’t let me rain on your delusional parade.
          (By the way, Iraq is far from secure, let alone Afghanistan…)

  18. RedBaronCV 18

    Well we were meant to be left with the impression that our secret services are needed to really protect us.
    So what exactly did the SIS do here, spy on NZ citizens in Aus ( now that would be interesting) or respond to an email from Australia asking for a few extra passport details.
    If it was the later , it’s likely it went to internal affairs, so how does anybody know that these women are actually Muslim – last I checked religion wasn’t a question on a passport application and lastly how does anyone here in NZ know that they went to get married to a jihadist? as opposed to visiting family say or a show farm somewhere on the area.
    War torn area though it is, the planes still fly into major airports in the area not to a landing strip marked Jihadist only.
    This lot really is incompetent and why aren’t the MSM asking real questions.

    • In Vino 18.1

      +1 RBCV.
      As David Frost used to say back in the good old days, “These are questions which can and must be answered.” But we know now that they won’t be, don’t we?

    • emergency mike 18.2

      ‘One or two’ non-resident New Zealanders go to some naughty Middle Eastern country and get married there. Reason: unknown, Jihadist inclination: unknown.

      Nek minute: we should be worried about kiwi jihadi brides sez John Key.

      Nek nek minute: Chris Findlayson doesn’t want to talk about it anymore.

      Jihadi Bride Threat Level Update: Danger level low

    • Chuck 18.3

      Why don’t the NZ intelligence service just release comprehensive reports or even summary reports on each investigation (as in the above post) they are involved in? O-wait maybe its something to do with national security…and making their job impossible to do.

      • RedBaronCV 18.3.1

        Well it’s entirely possible that the SIS investigated absolutely nothing -unless they were spying on NZer’s in Australia. -which was part of the point I was making. Nice diversion try though.

        • Chuck 18.3.1.1

          The very essence of a job like the SIS have is just that…its very easy for anyone to say pretty much anything (like you have – “its entirely possible that the SIS investigated absolutely nothing”. I can’t prove that you are wrong…just as you can’t prove you are correct.

          Example; maybe they stopped further NZ passport holders going off to blow shit up?? I could say that, but I am guessing as you are guessing in your views.

          • RedBaronCV 18.3.1.1.1

            Actually I’m not guessing, I’m inferring, based on the location of the parties involved. There are only so many permutations and what we are being told in ” jihadi brides terms ” none of them make a lot of sense. Again nice distraction and an uber prompt reply Too. On double time there? If not you’ll need to bargain harder…

  19. Keith 19

    “Does a bear shit in the woods?” saying has now officially been replaced by the indisputable “Does John Key lie?”.

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