The new political battleground

23 comments on “The new political battleground ”

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1. Raymond A Francis 1

   30 August 2011 at 10:51 am

   Well I like and applaude the effort Labour has put into Red Alert
   Trevor Mallard who in his past political statements had came across as a sport bully (remember the thing about beer bottles) turns out to human in his blogging

   The point that Imperator Fish makes about negativity is a good one that all political blogs should learn from. The whole Labour meme that John Key is a light weight fool while possibly true, is saying to the voters (well 60%+) that they are fools for voting or polling him as a good leader
   This is not the way to win votes from the undecided
   • Jim Nald 1.1

     30 August 2011 at 11:48 am

     NZ facing up to Nov 2008: the voters’ national mistake
   • lprent 1.2

     30 August 2011 at 12:46 pm

     I’m afraid that I really don’t blog to win voters. I blog to discuss politics amongst the mainly left. It allows communication between the politically involved rather than being some kind of media/communications exercise. But I’m not a politician…. What I am is someone who has been on the social media for a long time (On Thursday I’m off to a IRL dinner with some of the kcbbs crowd – a social even that started about 1991 as I recall. And I’d been on the BBS’es for quite some time before that).

     Subtle point, but much of the discourse about Red Alert simply doesn’t apply outside of the politicians blogs.
2. thejackal 2

   30 August 2011 at 11:15 am

   I think you’ve been far too kind to the National party Rijab. Clearly they’re a bunch of cowards who fear the public and will avoid engaging because it will show them to be lacking. Even with the MSM’s biased reporting, we still see many instances of National incompetence.

   Instead of a National run blog site, we get the pseudo National site Kiwibog, which just bans any left wing commentators. Whenever the DF’s associations are questioned, he bleats about Kiwibog not being funded by the National party. FFS!

   A lack of engagement by the National party is not limited to social media… they purposefully ignore reputable research and international statistics as well. National is a blind and hollow party that has no substance or plan to make New Zealand a better country.

   That’s because National is all about telling people what to think, instead of listening. They simply don’t care about the people they’re meant to represent, they only care about looking after themselves and their rich mates. A National party blog site doesn’t fit into that philosophy at all.
   • Lanthanide 2.1

     30 August 2011 at 11:45 am

     “Whenever the DF’s associations are questioned, he bleats about Kiwibog not being funded by the National party.”

     Kiwiblog isn’t funded by the National Party in the same way that the government isn’t borrowing to pay for tax cuts. That is, David Farrar is paid to conduct polls for the National party, and the government is borrowing to rebuild Christchurch.
     • thejackal 2.1.1

       30 August 2011 at 12:08 pm

       Exactly Lanthanide. It’s similar rhetoric to beneficiary bashing will help poverty, asset sales aren’t privatization and budget cuts to education and woman’s refuges etc, aren’t really cuts. Apparently the youth unemployment figures and child poverty rate isn’t correct either.

       Just to reiterate the point about National disengaging, here’s an article about them refusing to accept free books written about the Corrections Department’s failure to rehabilitate people. National’s excuse for not accepting the research is that the title of the book is too provocative.
   • kriswgtn 2.2

     30 August 2011 at 12:28 pm

     yeah they banned me within a hour of joining hhaha
     hell i didnt even get a star

     national’s trademe rightwing community petrocks are easy to torture hahahaha
   • Pete George 2.3

     30 August 2011 at 3:29 pm

     Instead of a National run blog site, we get the pseudo National site Kiwibog, which just bans any left wing commentators.

     That’s nonsense. There’s very few bannings that I’ve seen. I’ve been branded a leftie there and at times I’ve been extensively attacked by commenters but I’ve never been demerited (I think I’ve been prewarned a couple of times) – and I’ve directly criticised DPF at times.

     In my experience KB allows a wider range and type of comment than here, and of course there’s pros and cons with that. There are frequent attacks on National and Key that are not obviously restricted. I’ve criticised National and Key on KB without restirction.

     I do agree that National MPs don’t engage, I’d prefer to see them accessible on the Internet.
     • thejackal 2.3.1

       30 August 2011 at 3:52 pm

       That’s nice Pete George. I was banned forever by the DF… No demerit, no warning. I guess the same rules don’t apply to right wingers like yourself.

       Not that I mind all that much, I find the comments a bit annoying on the account there’s so much disinformation and bigotry. I bet the DF feels right at home.

       Perhaps the National MP’s do engage under pseudonyms @ Kiwibog. It would otherwise be a bit lonely for them, all alone as the only political party without a blog site.
       • Pete George 2.3.1.1

         30 August 2011 at 4:02 pm

         I don’t see you listed on the banned list, was it under a different pseudonym? It’s rare to see anyone banned outright – what specifically was the reason given? You weren’t Todd were you?

         Talking of pseudonyms, at least DPF make’s it clear what his identity is and what his affiliations are.
         • thejackal 2.3.1.1.1

           30 August 2011 at 5:55 pm

           Yes! My old handle was Todd. I changed it because another Todd thought I was stepping on his toes. I’m not sure what makes the DF’s opinion have any added weight because he declares he’s a RWNJ. Funnily enough, it’s his arrogance that started me blogging in the first place :p I’m sure he would ban me from the internet if he could.
           • Pete George 2.3.1.1.1.1

             30 August 2011 at 8:21 pm

             Maybe threatening to sue DPF didn’t help your case.
             • thejackal …

               30 August 2011 at 9:25 pm

               My case to get up the DF’s nose you mean? It’s strange that Cameron Slater now thinks that I threatened him. I always thought the DF and Slater were different people. Slater hasn’t realized yet that his host has been interfering with his website because of a take down order. He was even jumping up and down a while ago saying Labour was hacking his site. I’ll never understand RWNJ’s.
3. insider 3

   30 August 2011 at 11:25 am

   Social media is a tool they can use to promote and engage at an organisation level but party discipline means that they can never fully make use of its power because every sentence will be parsed by opponents for hidden agendas and policy backtracks, meaning they can never truly discuss and debate beyond the party slogans.

   Obama’s campaign will be held up as a watershed use of social media, but I suspect it could be a one-off, firstly because it was exploiting a still relatively new medium that was gaining critical mass and politically uncrowded, the next time everyone will be doing it; secondly, voters may begin to see through the superficiality of the engagement and so be far less enthusiastic to take action next time.

   That said, in NZ there may still be opportunity but I don’t think we are quite so willing to buy in to the mass participant campaigns like the Obama one, though that may reflect the greater political consensus here.
   • MrSmith 3.1

     30 August 2011 at 7:25 pm

     “That said, in NZ there may still be opportunity but I don’t think we are quite so willing to buy in to the mass participant campaigns like the Obama one.”
      
     Don’t you believe insider, Kiwis are ripe for the picking, they may not buy into a mass participant campaign but Kiwis like an underdog, you just need to find the soft spot, maybe this is the Labour parties plan, shit even I am starting to feel sorry for Goff.
     • mik e 3.1.1

       30 August 2011 at 11:06 pm

       Just getting the young ones out to vote would be a good start with the twitter facebook etc would not be threatening want a job vote the jobs party blog away
4. Tiger Mountain 4

   30 August 2011 at 11:39 am

   Righties seem to prefer blogs when they do engage. Social networking sites by their nature deter the anonymity that torys usually crave for their nasty invective and or trolling. It is harder to generate FUD (fear, uncertainty & doubt) if you are known, identifiable and therefore accountable to some degree. Shonkey’s FB presence is one twist to this observation though.

   The fledgling Te Mana has done rather well with its several facebook pages http://www.facebook.com/ManaParty, with some quite sophisticated debate, and some off the wall ideas too, but this coming from many who are engaging in politics for the first time. And that is what Te Mana is all about so it is working.
   They got FB rolling first and the website http://mana.net.nz/ and Hone’s personal website http://hone.co.nz/ are in the background at this point. There was terrible trolling and down right hatred in the first few weeks that has dropped right off currently with better moderation. The Mana community made it clear inciteful speech was not acceptable and then some of the poor righties whinged when they were outed at their places of work etc. Say what you like, but be prepared to own it.

   Election social networking will go down well with people that just want an answer, or to offer their views in a media they are used to and prefer. And good on Labour with Red Alert despite all its difficulties. RA probably keeps a few tory office ‘workers’ in employment too with all their posts.
5. In Vino Veritas 5

   30 August 2011 at 2:47 pm

   Given Labours whining regarding the poor, I would have thought that these poor and the poor middle class wouldnt be able to afford a PC\laptop\smartphone\internet connection\telephone connection to be able to use social media. If this is so, since they are struggling so much and they’ll be wanting to pay rent\mortgage\power\shoes and clothes for kids etc, surely using social media will be wasted on left voters?
6. Tiger Mountain 6

   30 August 2011 at 3:10 pm

   It is not about what you think Vino, reputable studies such as at AUTs http://www.aut.ac.nz. part of the world internet project show internet users well into the 80s as a percentage of the New Zealand population and heading for 90%.

   “Most New Zealanders, regardless of age, ethnicity, gender or socio-economic status, are increasingly using the Internet for a variety of activities such as social networking, buying and selling goods online, Internet banking, accessing information, learning and entertainment.”–AUT 2010 press release.

   The digital divide is now not about whether you have gadgets and internet access but what you use that access for, often dependent on connection speed and data amounts. Social networking is one of the most frequently used services.
7. jacqui 7

   30 August 2011 at 5:01 pm

   Labour seem to rely heavily on spreading their message through the narrow channels of Facebook and Red Alert. They’re preaching to the converted and not going to win any extra votes this way. Also, people tend to ‘hide’ too much activity from groups on facebook, so the channel gets narrower in terms of spreading the message. And how many people are really reading the blogs, other than core voters?
   The wider concern is the average Joe has no idea what Labour are planning as the MSM rarely cover policies, only titbits and trivia. I am constantly getting asked ‘so what are Labour doing about the election?’, the consensus being they appear to be doing nothing, they’re not visible and their messaging is not hitting home.
   I think social media is a fine place to air views and debate issues de jour, but it is limiting in communication terms.
   • Colonial Viper 7.1

     31 August 2011 at 7:22 am

     +1

     Got to get out there if you are going to win an election. I will be helping Labour out in my electorate this weekend, looking forwards to it 🙂
8. chris73 8

   31 August 2011 at 6:39 am

   I think the problem with red alert is that the MPs using don’t really understand that its a two-way street or they’re not used to such direct feedback to thier ideas

   In fact it must be quite a shock that when they (on occaision) write something thats blatently wrong/dumb they get people telling them so

   Maybe not used to people telling them exactly how they feel?
   • Colonial Viper 8.1

     31 August 2011 at 7:21 am

     National MPs don’t like criticism to the extent that they will set situations up where they cannot receive any. They will walk out of meetings without taking questions, websites and blog sites are heavily controlled or have no space to make public comments, etc.

     Labour has done pretty well with the running of Red Alert, particularly in the face of organised, and oft personal, trolling.

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