The pope and climate change

32 comments on “The pope and climate change ”

• Comments are now closed

1. Julz 1

   30 April 2015 at 9:57 am

   It is good to see the Pope speaking out about climate change and other matters….hard to take him
   seriously until he addresses the mediaeval attitude the church holds towards women. That would be a really significant move.
   • Puddleglum 1.1

     30 April 2015 at 11:36 am

     Good point although there may be some cause for optimism on that issue – but there seems to be debate over how to read the tea leaves:

     See, for example:

     http://time.com/3767183/reform-themes-pope-francis/
     http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/pope-francis-calls-gender-pay-gap-a-scandal-1.3054036
     http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/19/pope-francis-vision-new-catholic-church

     But then there’s http://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-oe-moss-pope-francis-women-20141208-story.html
     http://world.time.com/2013/09/25/pope-francis-excommunicates-priest-who-supports-womens-ordination-and-gays/
     http://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/Pope-Francis-church-leaders-anti-women-says-former-President-McAleese.html#.

     The very fact that the tea leaves have to be read may be a cause for hope – then again it may be old wine in new wineskins.

     Time will tell.

     Disclosure: I’m not Catholic or hold any religious commitments.
   • adam 1.2

     30 April 2015 at 2:53 pm

     So the Pope speaking out about pay equality as a scandal – is mediaeval?

     Or was it, that his call for radical equality between husbands and wives, in the household must bear fruit – is down right backwards?

     Or, attacking “masochism” and calling on men who want to dominate women – as something less than a christian value?

     Maybe, his calling for women to have a more active role in the church’s hierarchy?

     Or, the fact he has ruled out ordaining women priests whilst he is pope?

     What exact mediaeval practices are you alluding to Julz – or is it a anti papal? Or somthing else? I’m confused.
     • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1

       30 April 2015 at 4:04 pm

       Um, he said “machismo”, not masochism.
       • adam 1.2.1.1

         30 April 2015 at 4:17 pm

         Thanks One Anonymous Bloke.

         But he was talking about this.

         http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2015/04/17/pope_francis_christian_humility_is_not_masochism,_but_love/1137542
         • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1.1.1

           30 April 2015 at 4:19 pm

           Blessed are the cheesemakers 😉
           • Puddleglum 1.2.1.1.1.1

             30 April 2015 at 4:35 pm

             Not forgetting that lucky Greek who’s going to inherit the earth 🙂

             Edit: Probably a bit worried about the inheritance at the moment
             • One Anonymous Bloke …

               30 April 2015 at 4:53 pm

               The Greek shall inherit the dearth. Poor sod.
2. Ennui 2

   30 April 2015 at 10:17 am

   Julz, we cant live on a climate changed planet. I can take the Pope, an Ayottolah, a Dalai Lama, Vlad Putin…in fact anybody who can make a difference very seriously.
   Yes all of the above are medieval towards all sorts of things, particularly women, add John Key to the list. It may be a case of Churchills famous retort when challenged about alliance with the Soviets “If Hitler invaded Hell I would at least pass favourable comment about the Devil to the House”.
3. dukeofurl 3

   30 April 2015 at 10:51 am

   All those arch conservative GOP candidates for President, who are devout catholics, will be having kittens. This includes Jeb Bush.
   • Clemgeopin 3.1

     30 April 2015 at 11:15 am

     “Jeb Bush”

     Interesting!
     Is the Bush family catholic or only Jeb Bush?

     And who are the ‘arch conservative GOP candidates for President’ that are devout catholics?
     • dukeofurl 3.1.1

       30 April 2015 at 12:28 pm

       Before 1995 he was Episcopalian – his family’s religion ( its basically US Anglican).

       I seems to be because his wife, who is mexican.
       • adam 3.1.1.1

         30 April 2015 at 2:41 pm

         Rick Santorum is the only Catholic GOP candidate who is a hard core conspircy theories about it. They others just seem to be not talking about it much, corporate funded scepticism? That said Marco Rubio looks flip-floppy.

         http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/05/12/where-the-2016-gop-contenders-stand-on-climate-change/
       • Clemgeopin 3.1.1.2

         30 April 2015 at 3:10 pm

         Ok, thanks.

         I was particularly struck by your statement, ‘arch conservative GOP candidates for President, who are devout catholics’.

         To me personally, I feel that any ‘true’ catholic and indeed any ‘true’ Christan with real conviction of Christ’s teachings could ever be part of any right wing political parties with their pro wealthy, pro-corporate, pro-capitalist, economic and social policies. If yes, I think that is a massive contradiction to their professed faith, if indeed it is genuine faith.
4. Draco T Bastard 4

   30 April 2015 at 11:48 am

   and that he should stick to speaking out on matters of morality and theology rather than getting involved in the climate change debate.

   Notice how the RWNJs and denialist are turning more and more to this diversion?

   The Greens to stick to the environment only (although they ignore that) and now the Pope to stick only to moral and religious matters. It’s as of they’re afraid of the research and people speaking out about it.
   • Olwyn 4.1

     30 April 2015 at 2:17 pm

     And both Eleanor Catton and John Campbell should stick to entertainment and leave politics to experts like John Key. 🙂
5. AmaKiwi 5

   30 April 2015 at 12:43 pm

   Pity the poor climate change deniers struggling to explain that extreme weather changes worldwide impacting everyone’s community are not even remotely linked to overpopulation, over consumption, and pollution.

   Who can possibly believe the deniers anymore?

   Maybe they can blame it on aliens and give the military contractors a few trillion more to protect us from them.
6. adam 6

   30 April 2015 at 3:06 pm

   I had thought this was coming for some time – as the debates inside the Jesuit scientific community, has for sometime now, turned towards dealing with this issue. The Pope issuing this statement will give a lot of weight to many in the church, who are involved with action around climate change.

   I do wonder if they realise it will put them offside with many on the very, right wing? I think this Pope does see who the real enemy to mankind is, and that is the corporations and their greed. I think the dig about the garden of eden, was directed directly at them, and their utter lack of morals.
7. Naturesong 7

   30 April 2015 at 3:17 pm

   So, will Bill English heed the words of his pope?
   • adam 7.1

     30 April 2015 at 3:28 pm

     Don’t hold your breath Naturesong. Bill seems to be a nominal Catholic, immune to any Christian values – like protecting the poor, relieving poverty or acting in a morally upright manor, with fellowship.

     In other words, Bill already missed this other important message from the Pope – http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/pope-francis-calls-us-be-truly-christian
     • Naturesong 7.1.1

       30 April 2015 at 3:36 pm

       It’s a bit of a rhetorical question.

       Christianity is at its very core, socialism. And social justice features prominently in the Catholic Church.
       That any Christian would cast their vote for any neoliberal plank has always amazed me.

       This disconnect was apparent to me when I first read the New Testament. The realisation prompted me to leave the church (I come from an Anglican family) and start looking at all religions and their function within society more closely.

       I would be interested in seeing Bill English square his catholic faith with the way his government acts, and the resultant social destruction.
       • adam 7.1.1.1

         30 April 2015 at 3:58 pm

         He acts much like a Pharisees, committed to correct form and process. He is acting out a role of what is a Christian – in this case Catholic, without ever having to look at the values and morality which underpin the faith.

         I do wonder if he has ever read the Gospels. I think not, especially when he talked about social housing – his words were at odds with Christianity.

         Do you think Bill can say anything that could convince people he is acting like a Christian?
         • Naturesong 7.1.1.1.1

           30 April 2015 at 5:30 pm

           I think that’s where I often see the disparity.

           Acting like a Christian (in a tribal, social norm kind of way – which may selectively adhere to some of Christs ideals but not others)
           OR
           following the path of Christ (to practice in everyday life the ideals taught by Christ – which may conflict with your tribal affiliations).

           This is a challenge that faces all faithful people irrespective of their religion.
           • adam 7.1.1.1.1.1

             30 April 2015 at 7:05 pm

             Lovely written Naturesong. Could not agree more.
       • joe90 7.1.1.2

         30 April 2015 at 4:19 pm

         Mussolini, Pavelić, Franco, Salazar, Stroessner, Pinochet, Videla, Viola, Galtieri, Bignone, the church never met a fa***st it didn’t like.
         • adam 7.1.1.2.1

           30 April 2015 at 4:43 pm

           Come now Joe90 any chance you can think outside the box – or will Gosman have to Godwin you.

           Or how about – Francesco Saverio Nitti, Corazon Aquino & Benigno Aquino, Jr., Cesar Chavez, Sargent Shriver, Harris Wofford, the Kennedy family, Jerzy Popiełuszko, Dorothy Day, John M. Corridan, and E. F. Schumacher.

           The church never met a Socialist it didn’t like – either.
           • joe90 7.1.1.2.1.1

             30 April 2015 at 5:07 pm

             I suppose Frankie the pope has moved …, nah, meet the new pope, same as the old pope.

             The first time was in 2012, when the nuns got accused of undermining the church’s hierarchy by “promoting radical feminist ideology”. Yes, the Vatican officially censured the LCWR – with no apparent irony – for spending too much time on poverty and social justice concerns, and not enough time condemning abortion and gay marriage.

             http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/08/pope-francis-nuns-catholic-crackdown

             Ultimately anyone who participates in the class struggle is a member of the “people” the “Church of the people” becomes the antagonist of the hierarchical Church.

             – Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
             • adam …

               30 April 2015 at 6:54 pm

               Oh please Joe90 – so your not going to talk about the April 16th meeting this year – between the Vatican and the LCWR which shut down the long running investigation put in place by Benedict XVI. You know the investigation was just a cover for a power play to take over the nuns. This is no longer the case, discussion and level heads won out.

               Yes, the new broom is slow in sweeping up the mess – but who said it would happen instantly?

               But, no – simpler to tell half truths.

               The LCWR is up and still going strong – https://lcwr.org/

               And the LCWR is still doing stellar work.

               https://lcwr.org/social-justice
               • joe90 …

                 30 April 2015 at 7:20 pm

                 level heads won out.

                 same as the old ones

                 https://www.dignityusa.org/content/dignityusa-takes-action-response-silencing-sister-jeannine-gramick-and-father-robert-nugent
                 • adam …

                   30 April 2015 at 9:37 pm

                   I question your source joe90. As the wonderful Father Robert Nugent passed away, earlier this year.

                   http://ncronline.org/news/people/fr-bob-nugent-silenced-his-work-gay-catholics-dies-76

                   There has been a change, slow it is. This Pope is different – you may not agree with him, and that’s fine. Plus the church is split on this issue – I think the Pope is walking a fine line – And doing a fair job – could he do better – of course – much better.

                   But bishops still wield a lot of power – lets be honest. And some bishops are well, quite conservative. The link below is a great blog I think you may enjoy joe90, new ways ministry is still fighting the good fight.

                   https://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/
           • Clemgeopin 7.1.1.2.1.2

             30 April 2015 at 5:10 pm

             Include even Mahatma Gandhi in that list : Though not a christian, Gandhi said that Christ’s sermon on the mount had an immense influence in his thinking . “The Sermon on the Mount as he said “went straight to my heart”

             [After reading the life of Christ as presented in the Bible and in the writings of some renowned Christian authors, Gandhi admired the Sermon on the Mount (which shaped his whole philosophy of life) and hoped to see Christians live up to its standards. While living with Christians in England, South Africa and India, Gandhi expected to experience qualities like unconditional love, forgiveness, willingness to sacrifice, meekness, etc (Qualities of Christ). To his utmost dismay, Christians in his era never lived up to the standards preached by Christ in the Sermon on the Mount and on the Cross.

             Seeing Gandhi live, the Christian missionary E. Stanley Jones asked him: “Mr Gandhi, though you quote the words of Christ often, why is it that you appear to so adamantly reject becoming his follower (Christian)”? The latter’s reply was clear: “Oh, I don’t reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It is just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ”.]

             Read more here:
             http://www.mkgandhi.org/africaneedsgandhi/gandhi%27s_message_to_christians.htm
8. Sable 8

   1 May 2015 at 11:37 am

   Yes shut your gob and talk about God. Leave the climate change analysis to business people with commerce, not science degrees and right wing journalists with no qualifications at all.

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS