The tax-cheating elite

Written By: - Date published: 1:39 pm, June 16th, 2012 - 137 comments
Categories: class war, tax - Tags:

For 10 years, the IRD has been investigating the tax dealings of the country’s 250 richest people and their 7,500 companies and trusts. It turns out they had underpaid $500m of tax$2m a piece– with hundreds of millions more in dispute. If you and I went into a government office and stole $10,000 of stuff, we would go to jail. But ripping us off for $500m was all just a mistake, apparently.

Pity the rich, they have so much money, hidden in so many nested organisations that its hard to keep track of it all. Perhaps we should do the kind thing and relief them of it… Well, one can dream.

You might remember the Nats were talking about tax avoidance a while back. They acknowledged the rich were using vehicles to avoid the 39%, then 38%, tax rate. Their solution, of course, was to spend billions on cutting that tax rate to 33% (on the grounds that they had to align the top income rate with the corporate rate – but then they went and cut the corporate rate to 28%). It was tax cuts for tax cheats, simple as that.

I want to see IRD go a lot further. They’ve only gone through the 250 people with net worth over $50m. The top 1% numbers 33,000. Let’s go through each of them. I bet there’s billions of unpaid taxes out there.

137 comments on “The tax-cheating elite ”

  1. Colonial Viper 1

    One set of rules for the elite, another set of rules for the working and under class.

    And of course, the rich get to write both.

    • BernyD 1.1

      And they justify it by saying “We employ x thousand people, if we go belly up they lose”

      Next thing you know John Key has signed up and given them Tax breaks up the wazoo.

      The fact is a properly managed business allows for all expenses, the problem they face is if expenses increase, which is what John Key has set them up for.

      When the Tax rate invariably increases again those companies will suffer, and they can only pass that on to the employees (ie Staff redundencies and lower wages until the budgets balance out again).

      • Colonial Viper 1.1.1

        As we can see from youth unemployment figures, the elite are suck at creating jobs. In fact, its more profitable to destroy NZ jobs and outsource the work to India and China.

        • BernyD 1.1.1.1

          Well said

        • Jackal 1.1.1.2

          It’s not just youth unemployment that’s the problem for young people. Average incomes for 16 to 20 year olds have not changed much between 2008 and 2011 (down 1% to $10,563 per year for males and up 4.5% to $9,101 for females), while inflation has continued to increase dramatically. It’s no wonder heaps of young people are leaving New Zealand.

  2. TightyRighty 2

    Sorry, how much does benefit fraud and crime by the underclass cost the nation yearly?

    • BernyD 2.1

      Changing the subject wont help this country buddy, those people need to feed themselves somehow.

      Maybe we should just declare some more professions illegal and throw them in prison.

      Confiscate their assets and fix the problem once and for all.

    • Colonial Viper 2.2

      Sorry, how much does benefit fraud and crime by the underclass cost the nation yearly?

      Benefit fraud costs the country about $20M pa.

      White collar fraud costs the country 50x that.

    • Zetetic 2.3

      The cute and pathetic thing about this is that TightyRighty is highly highly unlikely to be, ever be, or ever have been one of the 0.007% that IRD found had ripped us off for $500m.

      He doesn’t benefit from them in any way either. But he has been indoctrinated into loving them.

      House slave is, I believe, the term.

      • TightyRighty 2.3.1

        Oh zet. So glad my hard work has paid off. Then again, I’d only expect a pathetic level of due diligence from you. Benefit fraud costs $20m cv? Evidence?

        • Colonial Viper 2.3.1.1

          Actually the benefit fraud figure is $16M.

          White collar fraud is 25x that. But you prefer picking on beneficiaries, don’t you?

          • TighyRighty 2.3.1.1.1

            Have you got some evidence of this factual claim that isn’t from a newspaper you all love to hate?

            • Matthew Whitehead 2.3.1.1.1.1

              Actually the source is the MSD, it was merely requested by the Herald. We could probably OIA the ministry for the same papers if we wanted the data first-hand, but unlike you, we don’t really care about benefit fraud now we know that it would cost more to crack down on it than we’d receive back- unlike tax fraud by the wealthy, who are relatively few in number, and use creative accounting to dodge taxes openly and flagrantly violating the spirit of the tax code, if not always the letter. And still they manage to rack up $2m each that’s blatantly illegally withheld. That’s impressively fraudulent, and warrants some jail time if they don’t immediately pay it back.

        • Murray Olsen 2.3.1.2

          Where’s your evidence, TR? Teabagger websites won’t help you here, because they’re full of lies about the US and A, not Aotearoa.

          • TighyRighty 2.3.1.2.1

            What claims have I made Murray? Jesus, so poor and stupid you can’t even spend the time to read a thread properly.

    • Dv 2.4

      So how much did the finance companies collapses cost the country.
      SCF 1billion and counting!!!

    • Foreign Waka 2.5

      Financial year2
      Number of investigations and reviews completed Number of overpayments established
      Value of overpayments ($)

      2004/2005 55,632 8,203 41,455,851
      2005/2006 45,992 7,299 35,757,865
      2006/2007 39,141 7,084 41,935,634
      2007/2008 26,736 4,407 33,702,275
      2008/2009 26,400 3,327 33,780,453
      2009/2010 19,935 2,996 39,336,133

      These are the statistical numbers. But one has to hasten regarding the ACTUAL. As these are in point in time over payments which occur when people are coming off a benefit but due to a pay cycle delay all numbers are included. I don’t know how much this would be, but it wont be more. However, we are talking about 4 million people vs 250 people and value wise 0.8% of what the richest people owe.

    • nowhere near as much as benefit fraud and crime by the so-called “better” class.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.7

      And the RWNJs walk in and try to divert to the poor. What a surprise.

      Here’s some facts for you:

      The evidence for the existence of widespread benefit fraud is paltry to non-existent – despite the fact that a special fraud intelligence unit was set up in the Social Welfare department in 2007 to detect it. Last year, the department checked 29 million records, and found the benefit fraud rate (as a proportion of the total benefits paid) was a miniscule 0.10 per cent. A declining number of prosecutions – from 937 in 2009 to 789 last year – resulted.

      And yet it appears that 100% of the 250 rich people checked so far were involved in tax fraud.

    • Dr Terry 2.8

      TightyRighty. Just what the hell would a privileged bastard like you know about beneficiaries or crime? Stick to your own and add to the stink.

    • fender 2.9

      Dont care what hand you use or the pressure required TightyRighty, please jerk off more quietly in future.

    • North 2.10

      Whatever it does cost you idiot……..just like whatever the cost of bank teller or accountant or crooked professional fraud, you idiot. Is that any answer to the question being asked ?

      Typical right wing dishonesty – attack the whole by referring to a few. Gutless !

  3. Tighty righty the only question that interests me is how much the overclass owes the working class. Any idea?
    Answer: it’s existence.

    • TightyRighty 3.1

      Dave, it’s a symbiotic relationship. The working class is only that because some people are successful enough to give them work. Tricky concept to appreciate I know

      • Uturn 3.1.1

        lol. In a mind that thinks capitalism is a natural law, the first chicken existed before an egg. Whatever you do, don’t ask where the chicken came from. It’s a tricky symbiotic concept.

      • dave brownz 3.1.2

        Tighty Righty, as usual those who sing the praises of the elect are ignorant of history.
        The little morality tale about Thomas Peel is instructive. A member of a textile manufacturing family whose own wealth was based on the  conquest of the ‘new world, Peel emigrated to western Australia in the 1830siin the hopes of increasing his fortune.
        He was given 250,000 acres of land by the British Colonial Orifice (what, no market?) stolen, of course, from the Aborigines (never mind they were losers). He invested some money (no doubt family profits from colonial conquest) in machinery but most of his 300 indentured labourers also having access to free land left his employ making him unable to increase his wealth. He was forced to deal in land ‘development’ i.e. speculating in the demand for other stolen land and which value was calculated in terms of being put to use employing labour to produce value.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Peel
        This really is the history of wealth making in NZ too. The land was stolen or acquired cheaply, and its value increased only to the extent that Maori and Pakeha workers were denied access to land and could be forced to work it creating surplus-value as the source of the bosses’ profits. Profits are nothing but surplus-value created by the working class and only increase as a result of extracting more surplus value. 
        http://situationsvacant.wordpress.com/auckland-antipodean-portal-of-empire/

        • TighyRighty 3.1.2.1

          So Thomas peel speculated and accumulated. On to a rather astonishing winning concept there. Why has nobody else thought of it? How did anyone become rich prior to the definition of capitalism as capitalism. How is it that there have always been those willing to extend themselves and risk what they own, employing others along the way to help them? Even before you and your stupid ilk decided that these people are the enemy? It’s because it’s human nature. There are those who win at being a human, and those who hate those who win. You are blatantly the latter

          • mike e 3.1.2.1.1

            tighty almighty given that the capital class has had tax cut after tax cut for thirty years.
            they haven’t been able to trickle bugger all of that down the line.

          • Matthew Whitehead 3.1.2.1.2

            You fail to realise he added nothing of value to the economy, and could have been replaced with a couple of office workers selling land directly to the people who wanted it, and things would have been cheaper for everybody- all he did was introduce another margin to illegal land sales. Hardly a role model.

            And yet, he couldn’t have made an extra cent without people willing to actually do productive work on that land, and he had no part in helping them do that work- there’s no management excuse here, no justification of a high education or high-stress work environment for him to get rich. It’s not demonizing someone to say that they objectively did nothing to earn their fortune if it’s an incontestable fact- speculation is not work, all it requires is investment capital, and that was inherited, not earned.

      • KJT 3.1.3

        “Give them work”. LOL.

      • fatty 3.1.4

        “Dave, it’s a symbiotic relationship. The working class is only that because some people are successful enough to give them work. Tricky concept to appreciate I know”

        simplistic and one dimensional…overall a stupid comment

        • TighyRighty 3.1.4.1

          Thanks fatty. With a moniker like that I am not surprised you view it as a one dimensional comment. How about I intersperse it with pictures of French fries? Will you stop thinking about how you can dodge your next salad to actually consider the truthfulness of the comment?

          Define working class? They work right? Who provides it? For people of your level of intelligence its the wonderful people who own fast food joints.

          To north and berny d, sis that the best you’ve got?

          • fatty 3.1.4.1.1

            TR;
            wow, a fast food joke and a french fries joke…and a salad joke? Your comedy routine is as painful and predictable as your ideology.

            “Define working class? They work right? Who provides it?”
            The customers – who are generally the working class, or should be if they still exist.

            Your claim that “The working class is only that because some people are successful enough to give them work” is simplistic because it looks at the relationship between employer and employee through the lens of a neo-lib free market ideologue. All you are looking at is one relationship from one perspective. You are ignoring a whole range of influences relating to employment…and you appear to be limited in your view of the ‘truth’. Your thinking is situated under the construct of individualised capitalism…its an individualised perspective based on greed/blame, which cannot accept that capitalism is not natural.
            The problem is that while you consider your statements to be “tricky concepts”…to most on here they are so obvious that its stupid and irrelevant to even mention them. Your logic is so uncomplicated that its pointless. Although you are right that a boss gives a job to a worker, you forget the fact that the boss is (or should be if we had ethical employment regulations) just as reliant on the workers. The boss is just as reliant on the customers. The boss only assumes power through your eyes cause you are one dimensional.

            “For people of your level of intelligence..”

            I would suggest you do some reading outside of a Matthew Hooten blog post, or the NZ Herald. Some of us have found the written word improves our thinking…life is not all about bottom lines, GDPs and efficiency. Try some philosophical or sociological books / articles.

            My experience of bosses has shown them to generally be incompetent bumbling idiots, who are only the boss because their dad was the boss. Most of them are not only incompetent, but also create more problems than they solve. David Brent is not just a funny character. Every place I have worked at I have milked the boss and done very little…most of them are very stupid and can be played easily…they rarely know what is really going on at ‘their’ business, they usually do little more than suck up resources and are a burden on society. Most of them are dumb enough to vote for the blue team…naturally they fatten their pockets slightly, but do so by destroying the buying ability of their customers (the working class)…that’s what I call stupid…that’s your logic TR

      • North 3.1.5

        Self satisfied dick. Seek help.

  4. BernyD 4

    Pompus git, you some kind of genius ?

    • BernyD 4.1

      TightyRighty …. still waiting for a definition of success

      • TighyRighty 4.1.1

        If you have to wait for it, you’ll never experience it.

        • BernyD 4.1.1.1

          I’m waiting for you buddy, and I’m expecting disapointment, kmust be my stupif gene that make me ask

          • TightyRighty 4.1.1.1.1

            I’m to busy creating it to stop and explain it to someone who sits on blogs calling out people to make up for their own grievances against a world that doesn’t like them.

  5. BernyD 5

    Everyone else is stupid, it’s our money … OURS

    The fact that our employees actually make the money for us is not relevant …. it’s OURS

    Define success TightyRighty, lucky is much more likely

    • Draco T Bastard 5.1

      When the game is rigged in their favour then it’s not luck but theft.

      • BernyD 5.1.1

        Lucky to have good employees, and theft when they don’t appreciate that fact

  6. burt 6

    If you and I went into a government office and stole $10,000 of stuff, we would go to jail. But ripping us off for $500m was all just a mistake, apparently.

    Ripping of $800,000 was apparently not even a mistake, the AG made a bad call…..

    So these guys are going to need to pay back the tax and the penalties and the interest…. That Winston, how’s his $158,000 from 2005 sitting about now… Oh .. that’s right – it’s still $158,000…

    He’s not in Jail though …. funny old thing politics isn’t it.

  7. Robby 7

    5% flat tax right across the board is the only way to level the field and will achieve a far greater and wider-spread collection than anything IRD has going at the moment! Nobody from IRD will dispute this claim because it is a true saying.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 7.1

      Nonsense. Apart from not enough to pay the bills, tax avoiders will still run a mile even to avoid the small difference between personal and company tax.

      • prism 7.1.1

        Yes it’s an irrational obssession to avoid taxes. The wealthy tax ‘victims’ would rather spend more on tax accountants than they gain in a lower assessment but would regard that as a victory in this pathetic sport.

        They have money, through good fortune plus work, but not all have needed hard work or risk taking or entrepreneurship, often because they have inherited a stable life, good education opportunities, capital and income base. Unlike others who inherit the outcome of their parents poverty of wealth, mind, dreams and self-belief also dissolute companions, and life-denying addictions.

    • Carol 7.2

      If everyone earned as much as they deserved, those that have way more money and wealth than they deserve or need wouldn’t be required to pay so much tax. The income people deserve should be seen in terms of the energy they expend and the social value of their efforts relative to that of the less well-paid.

      On that basis, many of the extremely wealthy, really wouldn’t be so wealthy, many of the less well-off would have a comfortable living wage, and there wouldn’t be such a big difference in the taxes people need to pay..

  8. Richard McGrath 8

    Just so I’m clear – does the tax-cheating elite include current and retired Labour politicians who reduce their taxable income by claiming various expenses and using other dodges? I would have thought all Labour MPs would want to maximise their tax contribution.

    • Te Reo Putake 8.1

      Diddums. The post refers to the richest 250 kiwis and also to the wider group of the 1%. Apart from the PM, and possibly Joyce, I doubt any MP falls into either category. Your snide dig at Labour MP’s just shows you up as dull witted, Dick.

      • Richard McGrath 8.1.1

        “Diddums”. So if some Labour MPs are avoiding paying the maximum tax possible, their hypocrisy doesn’t alarm you in any way? Your only concern seems to be that these same MPs don’t get labelled “elite”.

        • fender 8.1.1.1

          And your evidence for trying to malign any Labour MP’s is where?

          You should see to it that all MP’s get audited Dick, if there are tax dodgers among them I’m betting they would come from NAct than from other parties, as NAct are the bean-counters, only its their own stash of beans that most concerns them. J Banks has displayed some sloppy book-keeping and could be a good warmup before moving on to the big boys.

          • Richard McGrath 8.1.1.1.1

            Agreed! All MPs should be audited.

            • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.1.1

              And CEOs, and corporate board members, and anyone who serves in the executive of any of the big banks (those banks have been known for cheating the IRD)

  9. Grumpy 9

    What do you reckon are the chances on Matt MaCarten and Unite paying their tax bill?

    What about the other unions declaring huge losses to avoid paying their tax?

    You just gotta be consistent.

    • mike e 9.1

      unions are non profit organizations grumpy old right wing dogma blame the workers reps and divide and conquer keep New Zealand workers poor so you can maximise your profit.
      This neo liberal Model of running the country like a business is flawed.
      I call it cutting off ones nose to spite your face.
      We will continue to be a low wage economy while this continues.

    • Te Reo Putake 9.2

      Unite have a repayment arrangement with IRD, and all unions, as incorporated societies, are audited and their accounts are available to their members. Any declared losses will be genuine. 
       
      Any other half arsed theories you read about on Whaleoil you want dismantling, Grumpy? I’m here all day.

  10. Rusty Shackleford 10

    “If you and I went into a government office and stole $10,000 of stuff, we would go to jail.”
    I got a giggle out of this. Why don’t govt officials go to jail? They steal millions a year in the form of taxes.

    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      yeah because we don’t like schools, electricity, police or roads, do we, Rusty.

      • Rusty Shackleford 10.1.1

        erm, those things all existed before the govt got into the business and continue to exist after they got into the business. The difference is, the govt has the power to coerce people into “paying” for the products and services they produce. Private firms can’t do that. This gives govt a distinct advantage in crowding competitors out of the market.

        • RedLogix 10.1.1.1

          erm, yes they may have existed. But of course the private sector was only usually interested in supplying those things to a small elite sector of society.

          Governments by contrast we committed to bringing them to as many people as possible; something private firms wouldn’t do.

          • Rusty Shackleford 10.1.1.1.1

            Private enterprise has been in the business of turning luxuries into necessities for the better part of 300 years, now.

            Education was a luxury for 99.99% of human history because it was a necessity for the kids to work. No amount of public schooling would have been able to change that fact. The first public schools emerged out of the church and the philanthropy of the rich. Those awful robber barons John D. Rockefeller and Andrew Carnegie were at the forefront of providing free education to all. Not just the “rich” or the “elite”. I’m sure there are examples of NZ philanthropists doing the same.

            Electric light was considered a novelty, but not really useful in any way, for the first 50 years of its existence. It wasn’t until private enterprise started churning out cheap home appliances like irons, ovens, vacuums and tea kettles for the masses that it started to catch on.

            Police; there are more private security guards in NZ than there are Police.

            Roads; aren’t you lot complaining at the moment about the govt’s plans to build more roads? I agree 100% with you. The govt shouldn’t be building roads.

            • KJT 10.1.1.1.1.1

              The RWNJ alternative history is hilarious.

              Education for all did not occur until it was taxpayer funded.

              Voted in by those dreaded left wingers after pressure by unions and other socialist organisations.

              A few philanthropists educating a few, “deserving poor”, does not equal, “education for all”.

              The almost universal availability of electricity did not occur until it was state supported and funded. If we had left it up to private enterprise it would have been supplied to the big cities only, if at all.

              • Vicky32

                . If we had left it up to private enterprise it would have been supplied to the big cities only, if at all.

                As in Somalia! 😀 (That’s true, btw..)

    • Vicky32 10.2

      They steal millions a year in the form of taxes.

      Hilarious American belief. But then you are American, aren’t you? 😀
       
      (You seem to forget that governments are elected. Well, most of them, anyway)

  11. Rusty Shackleford 11

    “The RWNJ alternative history is hilarious.”
    You realise saying stuff like this doesn’t further your cause or make you sound smart, right?

    “Education for all did not occur until it was taxpayer funded.”
    I never said it was, but we didn’t need the govt to insure everyone had access to refrigerators, either.

    “Voted in by those dreaded left wingers after pressure by unions and other socialist organisations.”
    Right wing govts like to be in charge of indoctrinating kids, too.

    “A few philanthropists educating a few, “deserving poor”, does not equal, “education for all”.”
    Govt education doesn’t really=education for all either.

    “The almost universal availability of electricity did not occur until it was state supported and funded.”
    This doesn’t really say anything. Electricity is a good thing, but it isn’t the only good thing. What had to be given up in order for the entire nation to be electrified? Better health care? Better housing? Better roads? Something had to be foregone. Perhaps if we had waited and let people choose what they want (there was nothing stopping people voluntarily banding together to electrify there district), we would have had even better outcomes.

    “If we had left it up to private enterprise it would have been supplied to the big cities only, if at all.”
    This is impossible to know either way. We know we got something good out of the deal (universal electrification) but what other good things did we give up?

    • RedLogix 11.1

      I never said it was, but we didn’t need the govt to insure everyone had access to refrigerators, either.

      And on that point you might want to have a think. Why did the state get involved with the provision of electricity while demonstrably it did not need to do so with refrigerators?

      Understand this and we might make some progress here.

      • Rusty Shackleford 11.1.1

        You aren’t being profound when you write like this.

        • McFlock 11.1.1.1

          If it’s too obscure for you to understand, then maybe RL is being profound. Because it wasa fair point, and if RL wasn’t profound, then you’d be a doofus for not seeing the point.

          • Rusty Shackleford 11.1.1.1.1

            Explain it to me, then.

            • RedLogix 11.1.1.1.1.1

              Cognitive dissonance moment? Interesting that something obvious to McFlock and I is totally filtered out by your model of the world.

              I’m NOT saying you are stupid… clearly you are not. But what is going on here is that you have an internal model of reality (we all do this) that does not compute when presented with the simple question I asked above.

              It’s exactly analogous to what happens to most people here

            • McFlock 11.1.1.1.1.2

              I’ll give you a clue: demand for a consumer product vs the demand for the expensive infrastructure required to make those products useful. Cart vs horse.

              • Rusty Shackleford

                ” Interesting that something obvious to McFlock and I…”

                You’re both obviously talking utter cod shit and are now back pedaling furiously trying to think of something smart sounding to fill the empty statement you made.

                “I’ll give you a clue:…”
                Cue RL jumping in and saying “Yes, exactly, that is exactly what I was talking about!”

                You are both obviously full of shit. If you had something to say, you would have said it originally.

                • Rusty Shackleford

                  And, I’ve seen that video before. A guy in a gorilla suit walks through. And I got it the first time I saw it. Not because I’m special or smart, because I knew there was going to be a trick to it. Again, not profound.

                  • RedLogix

                    The odds are you are lying; at least 95% of people don’t see the gorilla the first time (I didn’t). But what you claim here is besides the point.

                    The fact is that you don’t get the point of the question simply because it conflicts with your model of reality and it’s filtered out. If you did get the point you would have responded by now.

                    We see this all the time on the blogs. Everyone is prone to it, no-one is immune.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      It’s the internet, of course I could be lying. You can take my word or not, it means less than nothing to me.

                      “The fact is that you don’t get the point of the question simply because it conflicts with your model of reality and filters it out. If you did get the point you would have responded by now.”
                      There’s nothing to get. You never had a point.

                      And what is stopping me from saying the exact same thing to you? How does your model of reality differ from mine?

                      I haven’t responded because there is nothing to respond to. You never had a point and it’s impossible for you to have one now that doesn’t make it look like you made it up after the fact.

                      “We see this all the time on the blogs. Everyone is prone to it, no-one is immune.”
                      Again, not profound. You are equally prone to it which means it doesn’t negate anything I said, in any case.

                  • McFlock

                    really. Did you count the times the white players passed the ball, or did you just sit back and feel smug waiting for the trick?
                               
                    Kind’ve makes the point about yourself, doesn’t it – you don’t participate any more than will still allow you to spot an opportunity to say how smart you are.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      Yup, counted the balls as well. I don’t really see how that makes the fact that I spotted the trick any less valid. I think if anything, it brings the validity of the test into question.

                  • Kotahi Tane Huna

                    Interesting video. I simply followed the instructions, having already read about the gorilla. By the time I saw it though, it was already half way across the frame.

                    RedLogix’ point, on the other hand, was immediately obvious.

                • McFlock

                  oh noes, it’s a lefty conspiracy to pretend we know what we’re talking about but you don’t! lalalalalalala!!
                      
                  Are you still in primary school, dude?
                   

                  • Rusty Shackleford

                    I don’t even have to say anything to make you look dumb. You are doing it for me. This is quite funny.

                    You guys are so screwed, you could have just made your point originally but now what ever you say just makes it look like you’ve stalled this whole time in order to come up with something smart sounding to say. Most people who read this would even have bought a line from you early on because to most people on this site I’m a “RWNJ” and that is enough to discount everything I say.

                    This case is different, though. Because you guys so obviously have nothing. And anything you do end up saying is just going to look like you are going back on what you said.

                    RL had no point. You backed him up thinking I would buy your line and try to guess at what you were on about. The fact you weren’t on about anything was irrelevant to you because you could just pick holes in what ever I said, or just say “You really have no idea, do you?”. But, it back fired because I called you on your cod shit and now you have nothing. You never had a point and now it doesn’t matter because whatever you say will just look like you made something up to sound smart.

                    To me, it seems like the only way of getting out of this with your dignity is just to admit you were wrong, apologise and then we can all move on.

                    • RedLogix

                      You still haven’t even attempted to answer the question. It’s not profound or clever. Like the man in the gorilla suit, the point is right there in the open.

                      Either you cannot see it, or you can see it but won’t answer. Which is it Rusty?

                    • KJT

                      If it quacks like a duck……..

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      There is nothing to answer.

                      You made a profound sounding (to you) but empty statement and now you are trying to get out of it in order to conceal the fact that someone called your bluff.

                      It’s on you to state your meaning. Unfortunately that opportunity has passed.

                    • RedLogix

                      Saying there is ‘nothing to answer’ is the same as: “I cannot see the point of your question”. Which doesn’t really help your case whatsoever.

                      Just in case you’ve gotten lost in the thread the question was:

                      Why did the state get involved with the provision of electricity while demonstrably it did not need to do so with refrigerators?

                      The meaning of this is plain and obvious to myself, and I’m assuming McFlock and KJT as well.

                      Over to you Rusty…

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      Nope, it’s on you.

                      Either prove you have a point or shut the fuck up and stop making a fool of yourself.

                    • McFlock

                      option B is that there was a point, you missed it completely, and you’re still missing it.
                       
                      But your ego won’t let you consider it.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      OK, you guys win. I have a massive ego and I didn’t want to admit I was wrong. You win.

                      Can you please tell me what the fuck you were on about so that my feeble brain can rest at night?

                    • RedLogix

                      I suggest again that it’s less to do with ego than it is with the way you think about the world. I’m not trying to belittle you; there is no purpose to that.

                      All I am asking is for you to examine the assumption that has made answering this simple, plain question so … difficult.

                    • McFlock

                      Private enterprise is likely to produce refridgerators and other products that use electricity if there is an electricity infrastructure.
                      It is not so likely to produce an electricity infrastructure in a world where consumer electronic goods haven’t been developed yet, i.e. a much smaller market and higher development costs.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      How is the frame through which you view the world more valid than mine?

                    • RedLogix

                      errm…because my frame of the world can answer the question and your one cannot?

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      This type of stupidity doesn’t even warrant a response.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Well Rusty, you’ve gone to a great deal of effort and finally proved, beyond doubt, that you’re an idiot and a blind ideologue.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      http://dracotbastard.blogspot.co.nz/

                      Why was your attempt at blogging such a pitiable failure Draco?

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      That’s not mine Rusty. Just some right-wing arsehole trying to discredit me I suspect. I know it’s not me due to the simple fact that I’ve never started a blog on blogspot or blogger.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      Funny.

                      [Hilarious…not. You escape a permanent ban here by a very narrow margin. …RL]

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      No Rusty, putting up a blog to discredit someone else is psychopathic.

      • Vicky32 11.1.2

        Why did the state get involved with the provision of electricity while demonstrably it did not need to do so with refrigerators?

        He seems to think that appliances didn’t exist before electricity, however that’s wrong – my Mum was born into a house with gas lighting (in 1918) and they had washing machines etc then).

  12. BernyD 12

    Why is everyone harping on about how smart they are?
    I read all the posts, I really would like to know how people can justify current policies.
    Unfortunately they only seem to be able to attack people on a personal level.

    This would point to a simple fact…. they can’t justify it, they’re just pissed that we don’t agree with the people they voted for, hence the emotional personal attacks.

    If their lives take a turn for the worst, they might start to understand why a welfare state is good thing and everyone has a right to an existence that isn’t full of pain and suffering let alone watch their kids do the same.

    I haven’t had one response from an opposing view that wasn’t a simple “Your Stupid”.

    My response to them all is “Prove it”, say something real. I can take it I assure you.

    • Rusty Shackleford 12.1

      “If their lives take a turn for the worst, they might start to understand why a welfare state is good thing and everyone has a right to an existence that isn’t full of pain and suffering let alone watch their kids do the same.”
      The opposite of pain and suffering is not state welfarism. State welfare entrenches pain and misery and causes new avenues of pain and misery. At best, it can only slightly alleviate pain and misery for a short time.

      Please, don’t take this to mean “welfare is bad”. People looking after each other is an extremely good thing.

      “I haven’t had one response from an opposing view that wasn’t a simple “Your Stupid”.”
      This is true on a number of levels.

      • BernyD 12.1.1

        What make you say welfare = pain ?

      • Draco T Bastard 12.1.2

        The opposite of pain and suffering is not state welfarism. State welfare entrenches pain and misery and causes new avenues of pain and misery.

        Nope, it’s your model of the world that causes pain and suffering as we saw in the 19th century. In fact, the welfare state is pretty much a response to the pain and suffering caused by “free-market” capitalism.

      • RedLogix 12.1.3

        Welfare as we know it is a creaky compromise.

        For most of human existence, over millions of years, people did not have or need jobs. Yet we generally thrived on less than 10 hours of ‘work’ per week to support ourselves. (We know this because the few remaining ‘hunter-gatherer’ societies on earth living in some of the most marginal territories generally manage on about that.) Tribal people co-operated closely to support themselves off the ‘commons’ all about them.

        Civilisation is essentially the story of the ‘fencing of the commons’; their privatisation. This meant that people denied access to the commons could no longer support themselves (no matter how hard or desperately motivated they were to work) because they were denied the means to do so.

        For many thousands of years the ordinary people shut out from land ownership simply became the chattel slaves of the landowners. Which suited the landowners because slaves were a most versatile and useful source of energy.

        The advent of cheap oil and technology meant that people became less valuable as slaves and more useful as workers capable of bringing skill and knowledge to their role; hence the rise of the middle classes. But nothing in capitalism ensures that everyone will find a place as a worker. Indeed standard capitalist theory assumes a certain minimum level of unemployment in order to ensure there is always some downward pressure of labour prices.

        But unemployment immediately creates a problem; without jobs that pay a living wage, or access to the commons (and a functioning community that makes living in such a manner possible)… how should they live? After all if they starve and die then their role keeping wages down fails and that would not suit the capitalists one little bit.

        In essence welfare as we know it today functions as a compromise response to this acquisitive, wealth concentrating nature of capitalism. It is effectively a payment to the poor in exchange for the privatisation of the commons by the wealthy; and keeps them alive so as they act to suppress wages.

        • Rusty Shackleford 12.1.3.1

          I buy parts of this and don’t buy others.

          “Indeed standard capitalist theory assumes a certain minimum level of unemployment in order to ensure there is always some downward pressure of labour prices.”
          You would have to define “standard capitalist theory” for the rest of your premise to make any sense.

          Something else to ponder is that a (supposedly) capitalist regime has allowed for many billions of people to survive and thrive compared with hunter gatherers.

        • RedLogix 12.1.3.2

          Capitalism in various forms has been around since at least the Roman Empire; if not earlier. The seven billion people you are thinking of are a very recent response to the advent of cheap energy (oil) and the high technology that is built upon it.

          I agree there has been a deep mutual synergy at work here. Cheap energy has been like “P for capitalism” greatly intensifying it’s reach and scope… but the cause and effect run one way.

          PS I’m actually no more fond of welfare as we currently know than you are. I’m not defending it…but understanding it properly is crucial to moving beyond it.

          • Draco T Bastard 12.1.3.2.1

            Capitalism in various forms has been around since at least the Roman Empire; if not earlier.

            Earliest written records go back to Sumer 5000 years ago.

  13. Rusty Shackleford 13

    I didn’t say they were the same thing (=). Because this isn’t true of all people. But, dependence on the state leads to a feeling of helplessness and leads to attitudes that the state is there to pick you up and dust you off every time you fall down.

    I work for WINZ, I see it every day. “It’s you guys job to find me a job”, is something I hear every day. “How am I supposed to feed my kids?”, this one came from a man who had just finished a season at the works making $1200 a week. The bank statement he presented as proof of his bank account number showed he had spent no less than $300 in various drinking establishments in the month leading up to the end of his contract.

    Many of the people I see are in genuine need through no fault of their own. Most aren’t.

    • RedLogix 13.1

      I work for WINZ

      Maybe you shouldn’t.

      • BernyD 13.1.1

        Sounds like he is disillusioned more than evil to me, and looking for answers that help the people he works with/for

    • BernyD 13.2

      Still we can’t tell them how to live their lives, civilisation needs to cater to all people.
      While someone like yourself may see it in a black and white way, which is your job
      Why would you stop drinking with your mates if you are earning a good wage ?

      I understand that feeling of helplessness , but it’s not the benefit that causes it surely ?

      • Rusty Shackleford 13.2.1

        “Still we can’t tell them how to live their lives,”
        100% agree.
        “civilisation needs to cater to all people.”
        100% disagree. Who is catering to me? I don’t want a lot of the stuff that is bought with the tax money I’m forced to give up every fortnight. If you try to cater to everyone, you end up catering to nobody.

        “While someone like yourself may see it in a black and white way, which is your job
        Why would you stop drinking with your mates if you are earning a good wage ?”
        erm… because in three weeks you won’t have that wage coming in anymore and you will still have kids to feed.

        “I understand that feeling of helplessness , but it’s not the benefit that causes it surely ?”
        Maybe not. But, it doesn’t do anything to alleviate that helplessness, either.

        • BernyD 13.2.1.1

          Fair enough, but allowing for everyone means you too.
          And catering to nobody simply isn’t true, It sounds cool, but not true in my opinion.

        • McFlock 13.2.1.2

          100% disagree. Who is catering to me? I don’t want a lot of the stuff that is bought with the tax money I’m forced to give up every fortnight. If you try to cater to everyone, you end up catering to nobody.

          You’ve got a job in this economy and you’re compaining that you’re hard done by?
            
          A government job, no less? So you’re living off the proceeds of “theft”?
           

    • prism 13.3

      Rs
      I hope you told him that only the wealthy can afford to drink like that. Poor people get caught up in NZs drinking culture which is encouraged by lax laws which can’t be authoritative because weak-kneed politicians can’t set limits on alcohol consumption. Attention to limiting drinking times and early bottle store closing would start breaking the rampant drinking culture. It’s an addiction and irrational and playing stern authority figure isn’t enough. What workshops have WINZ got organised for helping such addicted people?

      • Rusty Shackleford 13.3.1

        If you are worried about the price (in dollar terms) of drinking, why not advocate for eliminating the excise tax?

        “…politicians can’t set limits on alcohol consumption.”
        What would be an appropriate limit?

        “Attention to limiting drinking times and early bottle store closing would start breaking the rampant drinking culture.”
        Why should people who drink responsibly be penalised for the actions of those who don’t drink responsibly. Rich or poor.

        “…playing stern authority figure isn’t enough.”
        Isn’t this what you are advocating?

        “What workshops have WINZ got organised for helping such addicted people?”
        I couldn’t answer this question. I’m merely an office drone at this point. My response would be that there are other agencies available to help addicted folk. Work and Income can’t be all things to all people.

    • fatty 13.4

      “I work for WINZ”

      That explains it…do the world a favour and quit your job…every day you turn up for work you ruin people’s lives, you do not achieve or add anything to society, you are worse than a leech, cause although you suck the life out of the vulnerable, you do it to prop up the lavish lifestyles of the privileged.
      You should not be working in that industry…try a gang, the NZ police or the National Party.
      You individual responsibility blah, blah, blah is simplistic and arrogant.
      Your perspective is based on self-righteous blame…but I guess its hard for you to be aware of how people are abused via structural oppression, because for 40 hours a week you are the structural oppression.
      Time to do something useful with your life…stop ruining other people’s lives

    • Vicky32 13.5

      I work for WINZ, I see it every day.

      How is that possible given you’re in the USA?
      Good grief, I hope I have never encountered you there! (Probably not, the only ‘case managers’ I have encountered have been women…) 

      “It’s you guys job to find me a job”

      The case managers keep telling me that they do in fact find jobs for us (and that doing so is part of their job! So, when I ask them to actually refer me to one of their vacancies (always for minimum wage labouring jobs, but occasionally there’ll be one in which I have some skills/experience) they say “Oh, I can’t find your CV, send it again”. I do, then get the response “It was closed”… meaning “I was too lazy, and the deadline passed while I was polishing my nails”…
      Just a word to the wise – if you know my real name, and check my records, you’re committing an offence, which I am sure you know. I used to work for WINZ myself, in the 1980s…

      • Rusty Shackleford 13.5.1

        “How is that possible given you’re in the USA?”
        Ask lprent. She will probably be able to tell you where my IP address is listed.

        “the only ‘case managers’ I have encountered have been women…”
        That’s very interesting.

        “Just a word to the wise – if you know my real name, and check my records, you’re committing an offence, which I am sure you know. I used to work for WINZ myself, in the 1980s…”
        Why would I care about you and your record?

  14. Murray Olsen 14

    Is it just me, or is there an unusually high number of right wingers coming to a thread about some rich pricks getting caught cheating on their taxes?

  15. prism 15

    RS
    You work for a government social welfare agency but don’t seem to have any idea or interest in social policy. There is always social policy of some sort even by default, in your case your choice of it would be to do nothing and complain about people who are falling into habits that diminish their ability to manage themselves in society.

    I don’t know what you are blogging for as you just want to disagree with everything, tossing every comment back like a tennis match. You just seem to be one of the mean-spirited in social welfare who don’t like their job or many of their clients. I think you just want an argument a la John Cleese. That costs, your time is up, ting.

    there are other agencies available to help addicted folk. Work and Income can’t be all things to all people. It’s at the basis of why they need help from WINZ according to you, you drone.

    • Rusty Shackleford 15.1

      Where did I say “Do nothing”? All I said was I wasn’t sure if it was within the MSD’s purview to be dispensing alcohol counseling services. Not that nobody should be dispensing alcohol counseling services.

      Your second paragraph is irrelevant in some parts, incoherent in others so I will ignore it.

      • prism 15.1.1

        Thanks RS There is a name in The Games that People Play for people who like to raise contentious points and bat away the suggestions that others put forward in response. But you won’t know it and your approach is too narrow to try and understand it.

    • Murray Olsen 15.2

      I think WINZ hires people on the basis that they don’t believe WINZ should exist. Certainly at the top level this seems to be the case, although it doesn’t stop them lining up to get their snouts in the trough.

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  • Further integrity problems for the Greens in suspending MP Darleen Tana
    Bryce Edwards writes – Is another Green MP on their way out? And are the Greens severely tarnished by another integrity scandal? For the second time in three months, the Green Party has secretly suspended an MP over integrity issues. Mystery is surrounding the party’s decision to ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Jacqui Van Der Kaay: Greens’ transparency missing in action
    For the last few years, the Green Party has been the party that has managed to avoid the plague of multiple scandals that have beleaguered other political parties. It appears that their luck has run out with a second scandal which, unfortunately for them, coincided with Golraz Ghahraman, the focus ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    4 days ago
  • Bernard’s Dawn Chorus with six newsey things at 6:46am for Saturday, March 16
    TL;DR: The six newsey things that stood out to me as of 6:46am on Saturday, March 16.Andy Foster has accidentally allowed a Labour/Green amendment to cut road user chargers for plug-in hybrid vehicles, which the Government might accept; NZ Herald Thomas Coughlan Simeon Brown has rejected a plea from Westport ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • How Did FTX Crash?
    What seemed a booming success a couple of years ago has collapsed into fraud convictions.I looked at the crash of FTX (short for ‘Futures Exchange’) in November 2022 to see whether it would impact on the financial system as a whole. Fortunately there was barely a ripple, probably because it ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    4 days ago
  • Elections in Russia and Ukraine
    Anybody following the situation in Ukraine and Russia would probably have been amused by a recent Tweet on X NATO seems to be putting in an awful lot of effort to influence what is, at least according to them, a sham election in an autocracy.When do the Ukrainians go to ...
    4 days ago
  • Bernard’s six stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15
    TL;DR: Shaun Baker on Wynyard Quarter's transformation. Magdalene Taylor on the problem with smart phones. How private equity are now all over reinsurance. Dylan Cleaver on rugby and CTE. Emily Atkin on ‘Big Meat’ looking like ‘Big Oil’.Bernard’s six-stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15Photo by Jeppe Hove Jensen ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Buzz from the Beehive Finance Minister Nicola Willis had plenty to say when addressing the Auckland Business Chamber on the economic growth that (she tells us) is flagging more than we thought. But the government intends to put new life into it:  We want our country to be a ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • National’s clean car tax advances
    The Transport and Infrastructure Committee has reported back on the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill, basicly rubberstamping it. While there was widespread support among submitters for the principle that EV and PHEV drivers should pay their fair share for the roads, they also overwhelmingly disagreed with ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Government funding bailouts
    Peter Dunne writes – This week’s government bailout – the fifth in the last eighteen months – of the financially troubled Ruapehu Alpine Lifts company would have pleased many in the central North Island ski industry. The government’s stated rationale for the $7 million funding was that it ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Two offenders, different treatments.
    See if you can spot the difference. An Iranian born female MP from a progressive party is accused of serial shoplifting. Her name is leaked to the media, which goes into a pack frenzy even before the Police launch an … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • Treaty references omitted
    Ele Ludemann writes  – The government is omitting general Treaty references from legislation : The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last Government in a bid to get greater coherence in the public service on Treaty ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • The Ghahraman Conflict
    What was that judge thinking? Peter Williams writes –  That Golriz Ghahraman and District Court Judge Maria Pecotic were once lawyer colleagues is incontrovertible. There is published evidence that they took at least one case to the Court of Appeal together. There was a report on ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 15
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Climate Scorpion – the sting is in the tail. Introducing planetary solvency. A paper via the University of Exeter’s Institute and Faculty of Actuaries.Local scoop: Kāinga Ora starts pulling out of its Auckland projects and selling land RNZ ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • The day Wellington up-zoned its future
    Wellington’s massively upzoned District Plan adds the opportunity for tens of thousands of new homes not just in the central city (such as these Webb St new builds) but also close to the CBD and public transport links. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Wellington gave itself the chance of ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 15-March-2024
    It’s Friday and we’re halfway through March Madness. Here’s some of the things that caught our attention this week. This Week in Greater Auckland On Monday Matt asked how we can get better event trains and an option for grade separating Morningside Dr. On Tuesday Matt looked into ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    5 days ago
  • That Word.
    Something you might not know about me is that I’m quite a stubborn person. No, really. I don’t much care for criticism I think’s unfair or that I disagree with. Few of us do I suppose.Back when I was a drinker I’d sometimes respond defensively, even angrily. There are things ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to March 15
    Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:PM Christopher Luxon said the reversal of interest deductibility for landlords was done to help renters, who ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Labour’s policy gap
    It was not so much the Labour Party but really the Chris Hipkins party yesterday at Labour’s caucus retreat in Martinborough. The former Prime Minister was more or less consistent on wealth tax, which he was at best equivocal about, and social insurance, which he was not willing to revisit. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #11 2024
    Open access notables A Glimpse into the Future: The 2023 Ocean Temperature and Sea Ice Extremes in the Context of Longer-Term Climate Change, Kuhlbrodt et al., Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society: In the year 2023, we have seen extraordinary extrema in high sea surface temperature (SST) in the North Atlantic and in ...
    5 days ago
  • Melissa remains mute on media matters but has something to say (at a sporting event) about economic ...
     Buzz from the Beehive   The text reproduced above appears on a page which records all the media statements and speeches posted on the government’s official website by Melissa Lee as Minister of Media and Communications and/or by Jenny Marcroft, her Parliamentary Under-secretary.  It can be quickly analysed ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago
  • The return of Muldoon
    For forty years, Robert Muldoon has been a dirty word in our politics. His style of government was so repulsive and authoritarian that the backlash to it helped set and entrench our constitutional norms. His pig-headedness over forcing through Think Big eventually gave us the RMA, with its participation and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Will the rental tax cut improve life for renters or landlords?
    Bryce Edwards writes –  Is the new government reducing tax on rental properties to benefit landlords or to cut the cost of rents? That’s the big question this week, after Associate Finance Minister David Seymour announced on Sunday that the Government would be reversing the Labour Government’s removal ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: What Saudi Arabia’s rapid changes mean for New Zealand
    Saudi Arabia is rarely far from the international spotlight. The war in Gaza has brought new scrutiny to Saudi plans to normalise relations with Israel, while the fifth anniversary of the controversial killing of Jamal Khashoggi was marked shortly before the war began on October 7. And as the home ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    5 days ago
  • Racism’s double standards
    Questions need to be asked on both sides of the world Peter Williams writes –   The NRL Judiciary hands down an eight week suspension to Sydney Roosters forward Spencer Leniu , an Auckland-born Samoan, after he calls Ezra Mam, Sydney-orn but of Aboriginal and Torres Strait ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • It’s not a tax break
    Ele Ludemann writes – Contrary to what many headlines and news stories are saying, residential landlords are not getting a tax break. The government is simply restoring to them the tax deductibility of interest they had until the previous government removed it. There is no logical reason ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • The Plastic Pig Collective and Chris' Imaginary Friends.
    I can't remember when it was goodMoments of happiness in bloomMaybe I just misunderstoodAll of the love we left behindWatching our flashbacks intertwineMemories I will never findIn spite of whatever you becomeForget that reckless thing turned onI think our lives have just begunI think our lives have just begunDoes anyone ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • Who is responsible for young offenders?
    Michael Bassett writes – At first reading, a front-page story in the New Zealand Herald on 13 March was bizarre. A group of severely intellectually limited teenagers, with little understanding of the law, have been pleading to the Justice Select Committee not to pass a bill dealing with ram ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on National’s fantasy trip to La La Landlord Land
    How much political capital is Christopher Luxon willing to burn through in order to deliver his $2.9 billion gift to landlords? Evidently, Luxon is: (a) unable to cost the policy accurately. As Anna Burns-Francis pointed out to him on Breakfast TV, the original ”rock solid” $2.1 billion cost he was ...
    5 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 14
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Jonathon Porritt calling bullshit in his own blog post on mainstream climate science as ‘The New Denialism’.Local scoop: The Wellington City Council’s list of proposed changes to the IHP recommendations to be debated later today was leaked this ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • No, Prime Minister, rents don’t rise or fall with landlords’ costs
    TL;DR: Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said yesterday tenants should be grateful for the reinstatement of interest deductibility because landlords would pass on their lower tax costs in the form of lower rents. That would be true if landlords were regulated monopolies such as Transpower or Auckland Airport1, but they’re not, ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • Cartoons: ‘At least I didn’t make things awkward’
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Tom Toro Tom Toro is a cartoonist and author. He has published over 200 cartoons in The New Yorker since 2010. His cartoons appear in Playboy, the Paris Review, the New York Times, American Bystander, and elsewhere. Related: What 10 EV lovers ...
    6 days ago
  • Solving traffic congestion with Richard Prebble
    The business section of the NZ Herald is full of opinion. Among the more opinionated of all is the ex-Minister of Transport, ex-Minister of Railways, ex MP for Auckland Central (1975-93, Labour), Wellington Central (1996-99, ACT, then list-2005), ex-leader of the ACT Party, uncle to actor Antonia, the veritable granddaddy ...
    Greater AucklandBy Patrick Reynolds
    6 days ago
  • I Think I'm Done Flying Boeing
    Hi,Just quickly — I’m blown away by the stories you’ve shared with me over the last week since I put out the ‘Gary’ podcast, where I told you about the time my friend’s flatmate killed the neighbour.And you keep telling me stories — in the comments section, and in my ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    6 days ago
  • Invoking Aristotle: Of Rings of Power, Stones, and Ships
    The first season of Rings of Power was not awful. It was thoroughly underwhelming, yes, and left a lingering sense of disappointment, but it was more expensive mediocrity than catastrophe. I wrote at length about the series as it came out (see the Review section of the blog, and go ...
    6 days ago
  • Van Velden brings free-market approach to changing labour laws – but her colleagues stick to distr...
    Buzz from the Beehive Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden told Auckland Business Chamber members they were the first audience to hear her priorities as a minister in a government committed to cutting red tape and regulations. She brandished her liberalising credentials, saying Flexible labour markets are the ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • Why Newshub failed
    Chris Trotter writes – TO UNDERSTAND WHY NEWSHUB FAILED, it is necessary to understand how TVNZ changed. Up until 1989, the state broadcaster had been funded by a broadcasting licence fee, collected from every citizen in possession of a television set, supplemented by a relatively modest (compared ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • Māori Party on the warpath against landlords and seabed miners – let’s see if mystical creature...
    Bob Edlin writes  –  The Māori Party has been busy issuing a mix of warnings and threats as its expresses its opposition to interest deductibility for landlords and the plans of seabed miners. It remains to be seen whether they  follow the example of indigenous litigants in Australia, ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago

  • Government moves to quickly ratify the NZ-EU FTA
    "The Government is moving quickly to realise an additional $46 million in tariff savings in the EU market this season for Kiwi exporters,” Minister for Trade and Agriculture, Todd McClay says. Parliament is set, this week, to complete the final legislative processes required to bring the New Zealand – European ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Positive progress for social worker workforce
    New Zealand’s social workers are qualified, experienced, and more representative of the communities they serve, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “I want to acknowledge and applaud New Zealand’s social workers for the hard work they do, providing invaluable support for our most vulnerable. “To coincide with World ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • Minister confirms reduced RUC rate for PHEVs
    Cabinet has agreed to a reduced road user charge (RUC) rate for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. Owners of PHEVs will be eligible for a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000km once all light electric vehicles (EVs) move into the RUC system from 1 April.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    12 hours ago
  • Trade access to overseas markets creates jobs
    Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McClay, says that today’s opening of Riverland Foods manufacturing plant in Christchurch is a great example of how trade access to overseas markets creates jobs in New Zealand.  Speaking at the official opening of this state-of-the-art pet food factory the Minister noted that exports ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • NZ and Chinese Foreign Ministers hold official talks
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Wellington today. “It was a pleasure to host Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his first official visit to New Zealand since 2017. Our discussions were wide-ranging and enabled engagement on many facets of New Zealand’s relationship with China, including trade, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Kāinga Ora instructed to end Sustaining Tenancies
    Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities has been instructed to end the Sustaining Tenancies Framework and take stronger measures against persistent antisocial behaviour by tenants, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Earlier today Finance Minister Nicola Willis and I sent an interim Letter of Expectations to the Board of Kāinga Ora. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Speech to Auckland Business Chamber: Growth is the answer
    Tēna koutou katoa. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Honourable Simon Bridges for hosting this address today. I acknowledge the business leaders in this room, the leaders and governors, the employers, the entrepreneurs, the investors, and the wealth creators. The coalition Government shares your ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Singapore rounds out regional trip
    Minister Winston Peters completed the final leg of his visit to South and South East Asia in Singapore today, where he focused on enhancing one of New Zealand’s indispensable strategic partnerships.      “Singapore is our most important defence partner in South East Asia, our fourth-largest trading partner and a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister van Velden represents New Zealand at International Democracy Summit
    Minister of Internal Affairs and Workplace Relations and Safety, Hon. Brooke van Velden, will travel to the Republic of Korea to represent New Zealand at the Third Summit for Democracy on 18 March. The summit, hosted by the Republic of Korea, was first convened by the United States in 2021, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Insurance Council of NZ Speech, 7 March 2024, Auckland
    ICNZ Speech 7 March 2024, Auckland  Acknowledgements and opening  Mōrena, ngā mihi nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho.  Good morning, it’s a privilege to be here to open the ICNZ annual conference, thank you to Mark for the Mihi Whakatau  My thanks to Tim Grafton for inviting me ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Five-year anniversary of Christchurch terror attacks
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Lead Coordination Minister Judith Collins have expressed their deepest sympathy on the five-year anniversary of the Christchurch terror attacks. “March 15, 2019, was a day when families, communities and the country came together both in sorrow and solidarity,” Mr Luxon says.  “Today we pay our respects to the 51 shuhada ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024
    Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024  Acknowledgements and opening  Morena, Nga Mihi Nui.  Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Thanks Nate for your Mihi Whakatau  Good morning. It’s a pleasure to formally open your conference this morning. What a lovely day in Wellington, What a great ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Early visit to Indonesia strengthens ties
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters held discussions in Jakarta today about the future of relations between New Zealand and South East Asia’s most populous country.   “We are in Jakarta so early in our new government’s term to reflect the huge importance we place on our relationship with Indonesia and South ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • China Foreign Minister to visit
    Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters has announced that the Foreign Minister of China, Wang Yi, will visit New Zealand next week.  “We look forward to re-engaging with Foreign Minister Wang Yi and discussing the full breadth of the bilateral relationship, which is one of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister opens new Auckland Rail Operations Centre
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre, which will bring together KiwiRail, Auckland Transport, and Auckland One Rail to improve service reliability for Aucklanders. “The recent train disruptions in Auckland have highlighted how important it is KiwiRail and Auckland’s rail agencies work together to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Celebrating 10 years of Crankworx Rotorua
    The Government is proud to support the 10th edition of Crankworx Rotorua as the Crankworx World Tour returns to Rotorua from 16-24 March 2024, says Minister for Economic Development Melissa Lee.  “Over the past 10 years as Crankworx Rotorua has grown, so too have the economic and social benefits that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government delivering on tax commitments
    Legislation implementing coalition Government tax commitments and addressing long-standing tax anomalies will be progressed in Parliament next week, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The legislation is contained in an Amendment Paper to the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill issued today.  “The Amendment Paper represents ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Significant Natural Areas requirement to be suspended
    Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard has today announced that the Government has agreed to suspend the requirement for councils to comply with the Significant Natural Areas (SNA) provisions of the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity for three years, while it replaces the Resource Management Act (RMA).“As it stands, SNAs ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government classifies drought conditions in Top of the South as medium-scale adverse event
    Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has classified the drought conditions in the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts as a medium-scale adverse event, acknowledging the challenging conditions facing farmers and growers in the district. “Parts of Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are in the grip of an intense dry spell. I know ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government partnership to tackle $332m facial eczema problem
    The Government is helping farmers eradicate the significant impact of facial eczema (FE) in pastoral animals, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced.  “A $20 million partnership jointly funded by Beef + Lamb NZ, the Government, and the primary sector will save farmers an estimated NZD$332 million per year, and aims to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ, India chart path to enhanced relationship
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has completed a successful visit to India, saying it was an important step in taking the relationship between the two countries to the next level.   “We have laid a strong foundation for the Coalition Government’s priority of enhancing New Zealand-India relations to generate significant future benefit for both countries,” says Mr Peters, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Ruapehu Alpine Lifts bailout the last, say Ministers
    Cabinet has agreed to provide $7 million to ensure the 2024 ski season can go ahead on the Whakapapa ski field in the central North Island but has told the operator Ruapehu Alpine Lifts it is the last financial support it will receive from taxpayers. Cabinet also agreed to provide ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt takes action to drive better cancer services
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt takes action to drive better cancer services
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Work begins on SH29 upgrades near Tauriko
    Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Work begins on SH29 upgrades near Tauriko
    Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Fresh produce price drop welcome
    Lower fruit and vegetable prices are welcome news for New Zealanders who have been doing it tough at the supermarket, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. Stats NZ reported today the price of fruit and vegetables has dropped 9.3 percent in the 12 months to February 2024.  “Lower fruit and vege ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Statement to the 68th United Nations Commission on the Status of Women
    Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all.  Chair, I am honoured to address the sixty-eighth session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Speech to the 68th United Nations Commission on the Status of Women (CSW68)
    Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all.  Chair, I am honoured to address the 68th session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government backs rural led catchment projects
    The coalition Government is supporting farmers to enhance land management practices by investing $3.3 million in locally led catchment groups, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “Farmers and growers deliver significant prosperity for New Zealand and it’s vital their ongoing efforts to improve land management practices and water quality are supported,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Speech to Auckland Business Chamber
    Good evening everyone and thank you for that lovely introduction.   Thank you also to the Honourable Simon Bridges for the invitation to address your members. Since being sworn in, this coalition Government has hit the ground running with our 100-day plan, delivering the changes that New Zealanders expect of us. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Commission’s advice on ETS settings tabled
    Recommendations from the Climate Change Commission for New Zealand on the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) auction and unit limit settings for the next five years have been tabled in Parliament, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “The Commission provides advice on the ETS annually. This is the third time the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government lowering building costs
    The coalition Government is beginning its fight to lower building costs and reduce red tape by exempting minor building work from paying the building levy, says Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk. “Currently, any building project worth $20,444 including GST or more is subject to the building levy which is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Trustee tax change welcomed
    Proposed changes to tax legislation to prevent the over-taxation of low-earning trusts are welcome, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The changes have been recommended by Parliament’s Finance and Expenditure Committee following consideration of submissions on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill. “One of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister’s Ramadan message
    Assalaamu alaikum. السَّلَام عليكم In light of the holy month of Ramadan, I want to extend my warmest wishes to our Muslim community in New Zealand. Ramadan is a time for spiritual reflection, renewed devotion, perseverance, generosity, and forgiveness.  It’s a time to strengthen our bonds and appreciate the diversity ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister appoints new NZTA Chair
    Former Transport Minister and CEO of the Auckland Business Chamber Hon Simon Bridges has been appointed as the new Board Chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) for a three-year term, Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced today. “Simon brings extensive experience and knowledge in transport policy and governance to the role. He will ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to Life Sciences Summit
    Good morning all, it is a pleasure to be here as Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology.  It is fantastic to see how connected and collaborative the life science and biotechnology industry is here in New Zealand. I would like to thank BioTechNZ and NZTech for the invitation to address ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Progress continues apace on water storage
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says he is looking forward to the day when three key water projects in Northland are up and running, unlocking the full potential of land in the region. Mr Jones attended a community event at the site of the Otawere reservoir near Kerikeri on Friday. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government agrees to restore interest deductions
    Associate Finance Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government has agreed to restore deductibility for mortgage interest on residential investment properties. “Help is on the way for landlords and renters alike. The Government’s restoration of interest deductibility will ease pressure on rents and simplify the tax code,” says ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister to attend World Anti-Doping Agency Symposium
    Sport and Recreation Minister Chris Bishop will travel to Switzerland today to attend an Executive Committee meeting and Symposium of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). Mr Bishop will then travel on to London where he will attend a series of meetings in his capacity as Infrastructure Minister. “New Zealanders believe ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

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