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The Thunberg dilemma

Written By: - Date published: 12:10 pm, June 10th, 2025 - 49 comments
Categories: israel, uncategorized - Tags: , , ,

The problem was always going to be that the Israeli Defence Force has better PR. Here’s what I saw play out on twitter and with a bit of a foray into MSM (Guardian etc).

Activists including Greta Thunberg took a boat across the Mediterranean, ostensibly to provide aid to the people trapped and starving in Gaza. Images included Thunberg sitting in the prow of the boat smiling.

Then came tweets showing the position of the ship as it got closer to Israel (but still some distance away). Suspense was building.

Then the urgent tweets of the boat at night being attacked. First an unidentified white substance was dropped on the boat that appeared to affect the activists eyes. One of the activists livestreamed explaining what was going on, and that they were surrounded. Live stream was of the activists inside the boat.

A bit later the activists were preparing to be boarded. Another activist, a woman this time, is yelling about how terrible it is. They co-ordinated and all threw their cell phones into the Mediterranean sea. Thunberg’s team release a pre-recorded video of her talking about being kidnapped.

Nek minit, pictures of the IDF feeding them sandwiches and giving them water, and again Thunberg smiling. The Israeli government puts out press about how the “selfie yacht” had hardly any aid on it, but they would pass it onto reliable channels to get it to Gaza. The activists will be shown a film about the Hamas attack on Israel in October 2023, before being deported. I expect it to be graphic.

I don’t have a problem with the activists trying to do something, because god knows someone has to actually step up against the unholy fucking inhumanity that is happening in Gaza. But I am a fan of good activism. Not that it will always work, but without delving into it (most people won’t) here’s are the problems I saw.

Images of Greta Thunberg in various places on the boat smiling and happy lent to the impression that this was a fun excursion. To be fair to Thunberg, she did get flack as a teenager for not smiling, but this wasn’t the time and whoever was running the comms and PR should have known this.

The woman on the boat when being boarded appearing to be panicked. Actually understandable, but people in control of themselves need to front the activism to the public. Maybe she will garner sympathy, or maybe add to the impression of not particularly competent. This criticism is probably the most unfair, but it stood out.

The one that really got me was them all throwing their cell phones into the sea. Just no. Environmentally and because people in Gaza are forced to live in war zone induced poverty and here’s some Westerners tossing away tech as if it’s a nothing. It jarred. Yes, they needed to protect data, but did all of them need cell phones that had to be tossed? Could they not have used burner phones with little data on them for the livestreams and comms?

Probably the main thing though is that this was largely symbolic. They didn’t have any meaningful aid on board, which means the point was to get the IDF to react, and for that symbolism to work, there needed to be… something as a result. What was the plan?

They can’t be held responsible for the IDF beef sandwiches PR, but they could have anticipated this and a response. They most definitely could have anticipated the accusation of Instagram activism.

I’m not there, and there are probably reasonable explanations for all of that. The point I want to make is it’s not those of us already on board with the need to end the assault on Palestinians that need to be convinced, it’s the people who still need to get on board so that governments will take notice. And that requires good strategy.

Good strategy doesn’t have to be nice. As Rebecca Solnit says in this piece about the current resistance protests in Los Angeles, we don’t have an obligation to do activism in a way that pleases our enemies. But it appears that this is what the activists on the Madleen ended up doing. The Israelis must have been delighted.

I’m curious if there are other impressions of how this went down, in particular what the effect will be. I’d like to see the legal and international relations opinions about the IDF board the vessel in international waters and then taking the people on the ship to Israel for deportation. I hope there is some follow up to this and I hope the activists keep on with their mahi. It just has to work better next time.

49 comments on “The Thunberg dilemma ”

  1. SPC 1
    10 June 2025 at 1:44 pm

    It was organised during 11 weeks of no aid into Gaza.

    An earlier effort was blocked when another ship was attacked by drones.

    Highlighting the need for resumption of aid/and now a sufficiency of aid is valid activism.

    They should continue with a flotilla of aid to Arish and truck it on from there.

    The real problem is the IDF has an aid partner monopoly and a lot of aid is still blocked.

    People are having their health ruined for life by lack of safe drinking water (salt water impacts on their kidney), this requires fuel to the desalination plants.

    They are pressuring the population to move southward (attacks on housing as well as lack of aid in the north and centre), the intent appears to be to herd them into Sinai.

    Reply
  2. Simbit 2
    10 June 2025 at 4:27 pm

    Or she was smiling in her complete faith of ultimate victory.

    She gets flack for being different, and an implacable opponent. Long may that continue.

    Reply
  3. Nic the NZer 3
    10 June 2025 at 5:50 pm

    The advice of this post sounds plainly unhelpful and leads to putting perfection the way of the good.

    Its for a reason that Israeli propaganda leads with every (and every conflicting) statement to justify whatever Israel has done, and then falls back to what succeeds (often still containing lies). The reason being the spokespeople don't know what will be let past and what is not going to be sufficient.

    To demand that every action should be of the most effective kind will simply lead to dearth of knowledge about what is effective within the political environment. I expect a fairly high standard of truth from pro-Palestinian activism (and observe almost no such standard from pro-Israeli propagandists) but not that they only do things they know will succeed before trying.

    Reply
    • weka 3.1
      10 June 2025 at 6:44 pm

      It wasn't so much advice as observation. Like I said, I'm not there. I don't know much about who they are and what their resources are. I also said, specifically, that I'm glad they did something, and I hope they continue with their work. What we cannot be afraid of is critique and taking feedback.

      Reply
  4. Jim 4
    10 June 2025 at 9:08 pm

    Sorry but braindead take. This isn't about who is cool or PR strategies, it's about people being systematically starved to death. I thought it was bad ass that Greta actually put herself in danger and got on a boat to Gaza. Wish more celebs would do the same. You're falling for Israeli army propaganda if you think the IDF pwned her or whatever.

    Reply
    • weka 4.1
      11 June 2025 at 10:52 am

      sounds like you've fallen for some propaganda yourself. Thunberg isn't a celebrity, she's a high profile activist and has been since SS4C went global.

      We know what the point of the action was (that was a given). You don't however explain how this action made a difference to the cause. That it's sparked some debate is good. As I said at the end of the post, I'd like to hear other perspectives on its impact eg some analysis of MSM coverage. What I'm seeing in this thread is people already on board saying she did great. Sure, but it's not us that have to be convinced.

      Agreed that Thunberg was badass doing this.

      Reply
  5. benby 5
    10 June 2025 at 11:45 pm

    Tell me with a straight face that you wouldn't take your phone on this trip.

    Now tell me that you would hand your phone to the IOF.

    Ah, almost forgot. Tell me you'd board this boat, also with a straight face.

    Glass houses, first ones to throw stones, and all that. Bad post this.

    Reply
    • Dennis Frank 5.1
      11 June 2025 at 8:07 am

      Bad post this.

      Seemed entirely reasonable to me. Your first 2 points are superficial: any activist would know the phones would be confiscated, so they'd be morons if there was any useful intel on them. Their utility value would totally depend on if they sent propaganda to others while sailing or not (which is the only reason to carry them).

      I recall rolling my eyes when Marama did her political tourism thing but managed to rationalise it as `someone has to do the grandstanding'. This late in the game that rationalisation is too feeble to work with anyone who isn't a zealot.

      Reply
    • weka 5.2
      11 June 2025 at 10:55 am

      I definitely wouldn't take my phone in that trip. I would take a burner phone if it didn't matter if the IDF got hold of it. What are the technical reasons for not doing that? There may well be some, but I haven't seen this addressed yet.

      Reply
      • Muttonbird 5.2.1
        11 June 2025 at 12:14 pm

        It's been highlighted the importance of social media reach and engagement. You can't do that on a burner phone because you are rendered anonymous. It's not the device that is important, it's the accounts.

        Reply
        • weka 5.2.1.1
          11 June 2025 at 12:57 pm

          why can't you log into to your twitter or IG account on a burner phone? I am actually interested in the technical reasons here. Is it because if you log in and then log out, the Israeli spooks can access your account?

          Reply
  6. KJT 6
    11 June 2025 at 8:39 am

    I don't agree.

    It was a brave attempt to bring attention back to the callous extermination by starvation and bombing, of Palastine. It is as effective as they could make it.

    There is no guarantee that the Israelis wouldn't react violently. Even though it would be politically stupid.

    Reply
    • weka 6.1
      11 June 2025 at 10:56 am

      I agree it was brave, and that there was risk of the IDF being violent or abusive. But why do you think it was effective as they could make it?

      Reply
  7. Psycho Milt 7
    11 June 2025 at 10:01 am

    I realise mine will be the minority view here, but to me the Israelis' success in mocking this as a publicity stunt or virtue signalling by celebrities and Hamas supporters that delivered little aid is because that's exactly what it was. Social media wins that are gifted to you by your opponents are the best kind.

    There are plenty of people genuinely starving and not receiving truckloads of aid from their enemies, if Thunberg and other celebs are genuinely interested in feeding the hungry. However, they're in places like Yemen and Sudan, where the people running things will give you something very different from a sandwich and a free flight home if you go bothering them, so it's not surprising the celebs stick with Gaza.

    Reply
    • weka 7.1
      11 June 2025 at 10:59 am

      It wasn't an aid run though, it was political activism. Maybe that's a criticism (do aid runs instead), but if one believes that the situation of aid restriction to Gaza is an atrocity, then political actions are legitimate. I have zero doubt that the people on the boat believed in what they are doing and that it was based in values and politics rather than social media clicks.

      Btw, GT isn't a celebrity, she's a high profile activist.

      Reply
      • Res Publica 7.1.1
        11 June 2025 at 11:19 am

        I have zero doubt that the people on the boat believed in what they are doing and that it was based in values and politics rather than social media clicks.

        Btw, GT isn't a celebrity, she's a high profile activist.

        But isn’t the point of any halfway intelligent political campaign in 2025 basically to drive social media engagement?

        Some of the comments here point to something deeper: in an attention economy, the line between activism and celebrity; between meaningful protest and what gets dismissed as “virtue signaling” (ugh, I hate that term), is increasingly blurred.

        That’s not a criticism of Greta Thunberg’s courage, or of anyone protesting what’s happening in Gaza. But it is a fact of the political environment we live in.

        That blurring can also create confusion about risk and consequence. I think many of the people speaking up on Gaza are dramatically overstating the “risks” they’re taking. And in doing so, they risk minimizing the very real, material danger faced daily by millions of Palestinians.

        Yes, public pressure matters. Protest can shape public discourse, sometimes even diplomatic tone. But we should be honest about where decisions are actually made: not on the streets of Europe or the USA, or Wellington. Not on reddit and Instagram and Facebook. But in The Hague, Washington, and Tel Aviv.

        That’s part of what makes this moment so complex.

        Activism today is as much about being seen as it is about what is being said. That visibility can be powerful, but it can also distort the scale and stakes of the crisis itself. And in a media environment built on outrage and algorithms, it’s increasingly hard to separate signal from noise.

        Reply
        • weka 7.1.1.1
          11 June 2025 at 2:03 pm

          Agree about the complexity, which can't be addressed by the kinds of sloganeering I'm seeing from the left on twitter. Part of the reason for the post, to dig deeper.

          I've been assuming that the point of the action was to put a spotlight on it so that more pressure could be brought to bear on the US, the Hague and whatever other countries have influence in this that they're not using.

          So yes, it's about what is seen as much as what is said. Was pleased to see GT today making a concise, on point statement about the purpose of the action as she came through the airport after being deported. Maybe the issues I raised in the post don't matter, if the post-event press work is good.

          I think the term virtue signalling is now so misused as to be useless.

          Reply
          • Res Publica 7.1.1.1.1
            11 June 2025 at 4:00 pm

            I think the term virtue signalling is now so misused as to be useless.

            Totally fair. I’d tend to agree. But it’s hard to find a term that hits the same note without dragging in all the baggage.

            TLDR: It’s 2025. Optics are outcomes. Outrage is currency. And attention is the battlefield.

            As the noted philosopher Ice-T once said “Don’t hate the playa, hate the game”

            Reply
            • weka 7.1.1.1.1.1
              11 June 2025 at 4:29 pm

              how do progressives engage with "outrage is currency" in a useful and ethical way then?

              Reply
              • Res Publica …
                12 June 2025 at 7:44 am

                Effectively? Go big, go bold, go outrageously theatrical. Then sit back and enjoy the sweet, sweet sound of conservative apoplexy doing half your comms work for you.

                Ethically? Close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears, and be absolutely clear in your own mind about what you’re trying to say, who you’re saying it to, and what you want to happen next.

                Outrage is a mighty powerful amplifier. But if you don’t tune the signal, all you’re left with is your own hype echoing back at you.

                Reply
      • Drowsy M. Kram 7.1.2
        11 June 2025 at 12:31 pm

        Btw, GT isn't a celebrity, she's a high profile activist.

        'Celebrity' can be a pejorative label, as in this Israeli MFA press release:

        MFA Spokesperson Announcement regarding the “celebrities yacht” heading to Gaza [9 June 2025]
        With recent reports of a “celebrities yacht” heading to Gaza, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs wishes to clarify the following:

        The yacht is claiming that it is delivering humanitarian aid. In fact, it is a media gimmick for publicity (which includes less than a single truckload of aid) – a “selfie yacht”.

        Still, imho, GT is a celebrity – initially for her high-profile climate change activism.
        She/we may not like it, but it is what it is – she is famous as one of the world's best-known CC campaigners, and more power to her.

        https://www.oed.com/dictionary/celebrity_n

        Top 10 Environmental Celebrity Activists Inspiring the World to Volunteer With Climate Action to Stop Climate Change [4 Jan 2025]
        Climate Change is one of the most alarming issues threatening the quality of life of the human civilization. From the renowned actor like Leonardo DiCaprio to the young influential activist like Greta Thunberg, celebrities from all around the world are inspiring people globally to intensify their awareness level and act upon the climate actions to combat the ill consequences of Climate Change. Celebrity activism is one of the most powerful ways to engage the public in the environment conservation effort and promote sustainability.

        Reply
      • Psycho Milt 7.1.3
        11 June 2025 at 12:46 pm

        I don't doubt they actually believe in what they're doing either, I just think their belief reflects profound and embarrassing ignorance of the conflict they're poking their noses into and is indistinguishable from virtue-signaling because it effectively is virtue-signaling.

        Israel isn't just going to give up fighting the people who are sworn to continue attacking it, for obvious and existential reasons. Trying to pressure the Israeli govt into just accepting that there'll be repeats of Al Aqsa Flood is utterly pointless. Any political activists genuinely interested in ending the war should direct their attention at Qatar, but I doubt we'll see flotillas of well-meaning idiots sailing there anytime soon.

        Reply
        • weka 7.1.3.1
          11 June 2025 at 1:57 pm

          virtue-signalling means actions designed to communicate one is politically virtuous. Your use of it here would mean most political activism would be virtue signalling. That's daft and renders the term even more useless.

          The point of actions like this isn't in the hope that the Israeli government will finally take notice, it's to put a spotlight on the issues and get action from the rest of the world.

          btw, why can't aid be let through and checked for weapons? Because at the moment it looks like aid blocks are designed to starve people.

          Reply
          • Psycho Milt 7.1.3.1.1
            11 June 2025 at 3:38 pm

            I know that's theoretically the point of actions like this, but to me it just looks like people doing something that's pointless but makes them feel like they're doing something good.

            Re letting the aid through and checking it for weapons, no country at war provides aid of any kind to enemy combatants, hence Israel now setting up its own aid operation. As with the rest of this war, there are no good options when one side's entire strategy is to make sure its own civilians are seen to suffer and die.

            Reply
            • weka 7.1.3.1.1.1
              11 June 2025 at 3:54 pm

              I know that's theoretically the point of actions like this, but to me it just looks like people doing something that's pointless but makes them feel like they're doing something good.

              Ok, but isn't that because you think the cause is fundamentally illegitimate?

              I think Hamas' attack in Israel in 2023 was fundamentally illegitimate but I wouldn't call it virtue signalling. Political activism takes a lot of forms, and naming something pointless when there are cogent points to what is being done seems self serving.

              I'm not sure that what is happening in Gaza can be considered a normal war. They don't have elections, what are people meant to do exactly?

              Reply
              • weka …
                11 June 2025 at 3:57 pm

                I think Hamas' attack in Israel in 2023 was fundamentally illegitimate

                I'll clarify that a bit. If it was an act of war, that's one thing. But I still don't get what the point was, apart from to provoke the Israelis into a sustained reaction. In which case, that's just fucked up, there's no way to win that. Ironically the Israelis are in the same situation. They can grind Gaza to dust, and they will always be surrounded by people that hate them and where the Israeli's actions maintain that hate.

                Reply
                • Psycho Milt …
                  11 June 2025 at 5:59 pm

                  Re Hamas' war aims, we in western countries can't comprehend just how incompetent and corrupt the Palestinian leadership was and is. For over a century, their leadership's been characterised by terrible decision-making, venality, failure to even attempt unifying people or organising nationally, backing the wrong side (the Nazis, ffs!), and treating their own people as disposable items. It would be inconceivable if it hadn't actrually happened.

                  In this case, they seem to have assumed Hizballah and others would join the attack, despite not having arranged that with them beforehand. They seem to have assumed they'd damage Israel a lot more than they did in their attack. They seem to have assumed the tunnel system would give them the opportunity to fight the IDF man-to-man, which the IDF has absolutely no interest in indulging them in. Maybe there was more, but all of it just screams incompetence.

                  Reply
                  • weka …
                    11 June 2025 at 7:34 pm

                    incompetence seems as good an explanation as any.

                    How do you see the war playing out?

                    Reply
                    • Psycho Milt …
                      11 June 2025 at 8:36 pm

                      I seriously have no idea. My best-case scenario is that there are back-channel moves going on between Israel, Egypt and Qatar to find some face-saving mechanism for Hamas to stand aside "for the good of the people" and be replaced with some slightly-less-shitty flavour of Islamists so that Israel can say its war aims have been met and withdraw. But Netanyahu doesn't come across as the kind of guy who does what's best for other people, so the best-case scenario's unlikely.

                    • Nic the NZer …
                      11 June 2025 at 9:47 pm

                      As I previously pointed out to Psycho, Hamas have agreed to step aside and leave Gaza in negotiations with the US. This is not of any interest to Israel.

                      Hamas: The Enemy Israel Cannot Afford to Lose

              • Psycho Milt …
                11 June 2025 at 5:49 pm

                "Ok, but isn't that because you think the cause is fundamentally illegitimate?"

                It's because I'm literally not seeing a point to it. If the intent is to get other countries to put pressure on Israel, the question is pressure to do what? Israel can't and won't accept an end to the war with Hamas still running Gaza because it would mean more Al Aqsa Flood-type attacks, so what are Thunberg et al wanting world leaders to do?

                "They don't have elections, what are people meant to do exactly?"

                They don't have elections, but Hamas has remained popular right up until Israel cut the aid off and people got hungry. The popularity of the worst representatives of Islam is a problem throughout the Muslim world. I care more about "What is Israel meant to do, exactly?"

                Reply
                • weka …
                  11 June 2025 at 7:32 pm

                  sometimes seeing the point happens in hindsight. Lots of people thought XR was stupid, but they fundamentally shifted the public consciousness on the climate emergency. People say the Greens don't achieve anything because they won't use centrist positioning power and those people fail to see how the Greens effect change anyway.

                  I don't know what the solution is for Gaza or Israel, other than it's not going to come from war. Israel can't win this, they can only push back the tide for a time. Hamas obviously can't win either. At some point, something will have to change. Maybe it's not pressuring Israel but something else, I don't know.

                  But I'm fine with people standing up and doing whatever they can about an utterly appalling situation. The difference is that I think it's much worse than you do, and that Israel could choose differently as well as Hamas could. The people living in Gaza seem to have fuck all choice.

                  Reply
                  • Psycho Milt …
                    11 June 2025 at 8:26 pm

                    I don't know what the solution to it is either, but I do know it doesn't involve putting on a keffiyeh and pretending Israel is responsible for everything. To me, that's virtue-signaling.

                    Reply
                • weka …
                  11 June 2025 at 7:32 pm

                  “What is Israel meant to do, exactly?”

                  Israel could let aid in.

                  Reply
    • Terry 7.2
      11 June 2025 at 12:19 pm

      You are right, if they actually cared about people being killed in wars and the related famine and hardship that occurs as a result, they would focus on other conflicts, not just Gaza and the West Bank.

      Let’s be honest, this is about middle class white westerners showing how moral they are. When they get back to the west they will be celebrated and held up as an example to us all on how good moral people they are.

      Such is the white man’s burden, the starving and dying people of Gaza must be so grateful to these celebrities that it satisfies their hunger and eases their journey to the next life…

      Reply
  8. Phillip ure 8
    11 June 2025 at 1:03 pm

    Short answer to original question:..no…

    I think a more effective campaign would be nearer to their homes…no yachts needed..

    Why not target those European countries that go tut-tutt to Israel on the one hand..

    ..and who on the other hand sell Israel the arms they use to commit their atrocities..?

    Get their people sickened at the blatant hypocrisy of their own govts..

    Campaign for a universal arms embargo against Israel..and their ilk in other countries..

    ..and for serious sanctions against Israel ..and their ilk in other countries..

    (The sort of work the impotent clowns @ the United nations should be doing…)

    Going head to head with the Israeli military/will…is an exercise in futility..

    ..and not questioning their sincerity…just their effectiveness..

    Reply

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