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The Trump peace dividend: opportunity for rapprochement

Written By: - Date published: 11:25 am, November 12th, 2016 - 76 comments
Categories: capitalism, colonialism, defence, Europe, International, us politics, war - Tags:

We are already seeing early signs that rapprochement between the United States and Russia may be possible under a Trump Administration.

Diplomatic and military de-escalation between these two great nuclear powers was one of my top three reasons for supporting Donald Trump ahead of the neocon warhawk, Hillary Clinton.

In my view, the only thing which can screw our world faster and more decisively than climate change, is the steady march to war (economically, diplomatically, militarily, and in terms of rhetoric and propaganda) that we (the Anglo-US empire) have been on against Russia.

Blaming Russia for placing their country closer and closer to brand new NATO bases in Eastern Europe wasn’t that convincing an argument.

The Saker records two key comments made in the last couple of days. One by President-Elect Trump, and the other one by President Putin.

In his acceptance speech Trump said:

I want to tell the world community that while we will always put America’s interests first, we will deal fairly with everyone, with everyone — all people and all other nations. We will seek common ground, not hostility; partnership, not conflict.

Putin’s public remarks about Trump’s victory:

We heard the statements he made as candidate for president expressing a desire to restore relations between our countries.

We realise and understand that this will not be an easy road given the level to which our relations have degraded today, regrettably. But, as I have said before, it is not Russia’s fault that our relations with the United States have reached this point.

Russia is ready to and seeks a return to full-format relations with the United States. Let me say again, we know that this will not be easy, but are ready to take this road, take steps on our side and do all we can to set Russian-US relations back on a stable development track.

This would benefit both the Russian and American peoples and would have a positive impact on the general climate in international affairs, given the particular responsibility that Russia and the US share for maintaining global stability and security.

The Saker himself makes the following comments:

I am not so naive as to not realize that billionaire Donald Trump is also one of the 1%ers, a pure product of the US oligarchy.  But neither am I so ignorant of history to forget that elites do turn on each other, especially when their regime is threatened.  Do I need to remind anybody that Putin also came from the Soviet elites?!

Ideally, the next step would be for Trump and Putin to meet, with all their key ministers, in a long, Camp David like week of negotiations in which everything, every outstanding dispute, should be put on the table and a compromise sought in each case.  Paradoxically, this could be rather easy: the crisis in Europe is entirely artificial, the war in Syria has an absolutely obvious solution, and the international order can easily accommodate a United States which would “deal fairly with everyone, with everyone — all people and all other nations” and “seek common ground, not hostility; partnership, not conflict“…

The worst case?  Trump could turn out to be a total fraud.  I personally very much doubt it, but I admit that this is possible.  More likely is that he just won’t have the foresight and courage to crush the Neocons and that he will try to placate them.  If he does so, they will instead crush him.  It is a fact that while administrations have changed every 4 or 8 years, the regime in power has not, and that US internal and foreign policies have been amazingly consistent since the end of WWII.  Will Trump finally bring not just a new administration but real “regime change”?  I don’t know.

We will have to wait and see.

Finally I include three You Tube videos: one of Putin’s address regarding Trump’s victory. Another, a translation by NZ’s own “Inessa S” on what ordinary Russian citizens think of Trump vs. Clinton. (It seems that most think neither can be trusted). And finally, an exclusive interview that RT’s Peter Lavelle did with  Ron Paul on what a Trump Presidency might mean for international relations.




76 comments on “The Trump peace dividend: opportunity for rapprochement ”

  1. Jenny 1

    Mark these words well CV. An appeaser is someone who feeds a crocodile hoping that it will eat him last.

    • Jenny 1.1

      Trump has promised to defeat Isis.

      Under the cover of fighting terrorism, both the US and Russia have joined with Assad in pouring napalm like lava on Syrian cities and people, for the crime of daring to want freedom out-from-under their Western approved dictator. While trying not to step on each other’s toes.

      No doubt Trump will want to ramp up this genocide in closer partnership with Putin.

      • Colonial Viper 1.1.1

        Did you just say that al-Assad is a western approved dictator?

        Can you explain to me what you think al-Assad has to gain from genociding his own people?

        Also – why is it you’ve said nothing about the role of thousands of foreign Islamic fundamentalist jihadists fighting against Assad?

        • Jenny

          I have said lots about this. As you well know.

          And I would have said a lot more if you and your mates didn’t rely so heavily on banning and censorship of my comments.

        • Stuart Munro

          Assad benefits from genocide by retaining the undeserved office of military dictator of Syria. Those who oppose him obdurately he kills, those who compromise through fear for their friends and family he merely oppresses.

          “Thousands of foreign jihadists” – spin that allows Assad to murder with impunity. It isn’t ISIS in Aleppo. ISIS makes no friends of civil populations – they assimilate or perish.

          • Colonial Viper

            Assad answers all these spurious claims in a recent interview with Danish TV.

            • Stuart Munro

              Fatuous rubbish.

              “They’re not rebels they’re terrorists”

              There is no proof here, only spin.

              This unelected scoundrel, a middle eastern Kim Jong Il, heir of the despotic military regime, does not start even. His word, like that of the genocide Putin, is not worth the paper it is written on.

              • Colonial Viper

                Call them any new name if you like, but the majority of anti-Assad firepower in Syria is foreign fighters associated with al-Nusra and ISIS.

        • Jenny

          “Can you explain to me what you think al-Assad has to gain from genociding his own people?”
          Colonial Viper

          So you admit that a genocide is going on in Syria?

          So who do you maintain is causing it CV?

          Who are the perpetrators, and who are the victims?

          The main victims of course are the Syrian people. 400,000 dead, and more than 4 million made refugees.

          So who are the perpetrators?

          The photos and news reels coming out of Syria, show the results of aerial bombardment on a scale not seen since the aerial bombardment of Warsaw and Dresden.

          Who is dropping these bombs?

          Isis for all their ferocity and medieval cruelty don’t have an air wing.

          Apart from the air force of the regime itself, war planes from the US, from France and other NATO countries (including Turkey), and Russia, have all been involved in the bombing of Syrian cities and population centres.

          None of these arrayed air forces have deliberately targeted the territories or forces held by the regime.

          The perpetrators are in the first place the regime, aided and abetted by a Cabal of foreign, often competing foreign powers.


        • miravox

          “Can you explain to me what you think al-Assad has to gain from genociding his own people?”

          Are the people killed in these atrocities primarily Alawites? Genuine question because I’m guessing you mean by “his own people” people who are of the same religion as him, because history is awash with despots killing huge numbers of people who are ethnically similar to themselves, so that can’t be what you mean.

      • WILD KATIPO 1.1.2


        ” Under the cover of fighting terrorism, both the US and Russia have joined with Assad in pouring napalm like lava on Syrian cities and people, for the crime of daring to want freedom out-from-under their Western approved dictator. While trying not to step on each other’s toes.”


        This might help to explain some of the supposed duplicity we’ve been seeing regards Syria ( which always seemed bizarre until you see something like this …) emanating from the White House during the Obama administration , … when Trump called Clinton ‘evil’. … it seems he had good reason to…

        Have a listen , then …


    • Paul 1.2

      You should listen to John PIlger on the subject, Jenny.

    • Colonial Viper 1.3

      Mark these words well CV. An appeaser is someone who feeds a crocodile hoping that it will eat him last.

      Who do you see doing the “appeasing” in a situation of rapprochement or detente between Russia and the USA?

      Are you grown up enough to settle disputes by talking?

      • Jenny 1.3.1

        Sure. I am grown up enough to settle disputes by talking. Are you?

      • Jenny 1.3.2

        The so called “detente” between the rival Super Powers, America and Russia that you are calling for CV, could in my opinion, be more accurately described as a Super Power Axis to fight terrorism. But more practically play itself out on the ground as new Super Power division of the world.
        I could be wrong but, I don’t think an Axis between the US and Russia will ever work, not least because Putin’s obvious ambition for a return to empire.

        But let’s explore the idea:

        The other nuclear powers in our new multi polar world might have to say about a US Russia “Detent”. China, especially would feel particularly vulnerable and exposed, not least because President elect Trump has singled out China as America’s main international enemy. A realignment of the scale you are suggesting CV, would likely spark a massive global nuclear arms race by China and the others powers desperate to try and achieve some sort of parity with the US Russia Axis.

        The first logical thing the Chinese would do confronted by such an Axis would be to supply their North Korean ally with nuclear weapons.

        Donald Trump has already offered to supply South Korea with nuclear weapons. Japan would then be tempted to arm itself the same way. The United Nations Treaty on Nuclear Proliferation would be binned, France India, Pakistan, Israel, would be soon joined by Iran as nuclear armed powers.

        Trump has already promised to tear up the nuclear deal negotiated by Obama with Iranian government.
        lAll this will increase the likely hood of war

      • locus 1.3.3

        CV – Assad could have stepped down and a solution might have been achieved by ‘talking’ under the auspices of the UN before this war commenced. But it was Russia that did not want this, and rejected the UN resolution that could have pevented the war in Syria

        Assad has been fighting this bloody long-term war primarily to protect his power and to ensure his family dictatorship continues. His personal desire to control Syria has paved the way for the rise of the groups opposing him, as well as for the Russian financial and military support that has prolonged this war.

        Years upon years of bombing of civilians (largely by the Assad alliance) and military atrocities have been committed by all parties.

        As Jenny rightly points out, the blame for the scale of the conflict and majority of the hundreds of thousands killed lies firmly with Assad.

        CV – your framing using terms like:
        “Talking in a grown-up way”
        …. totally belies the inhumanity of Assad and his desire to utterly destroy his enemies, and the entrenched position of the Russians to protect ‘their’ port in the Mediterranean

    • Keith 1.4

      Fuck it, just hit the launch buttons. Better to incinerate the world than to compromise and be labelled an appeaser. Is that the alternative?

      Fact is the US love to start wars more than any nation on earth. The money to be made is huge, its an addiction as repulsive and as lucrative as drug dealing which their government cannot kick. They are the Lords of War.

      • Jenny 1.4.1

        “Fuck it, just hit the launch buttons. Better to incinerate the world than to compromise and be labelled an appeaser. Is that the alternative? .”

        Hi Keith, do I read you right. That this is your rational for accepting genocide?

        That we must turn a blind eye to genocide, because the world’s superpowers hold nuclear weapons, and might unleash them if we challenge them?

        • Keith

          “Superpowers” just like the US start the genocide and fuel it, look at Iraq, look at Libya to name but a couple. Were it not for the war mongers that is the US governmrnt there would be a hell of a lot less genocide!

          There will be death and destruction continuously in the Middle East at least while we ignore what is going on, who is behind it and what tbe real motivations are and tell them we’ve had enough!

          Watch that John Pilger interview attached to this blog, it touches on the US wars and what he says ain’t anything new or cant be found just outside the commercial media.

          • locus

            I think the Middle East “genocides” are more complex than your examples and blaming of the US

            imo ‘war mongering’ is the human condition most likely to be caused by a desire for absolute control or the determination to overthrow it.

            Dictators, tyrants, despots and ideologies that breed hatred are the root causes of genocide, and anything the world can jointly do to prevent their rise is the way forward

            The people who make and supply the weaponry wouldn’t have the demand for their deathly products if there were fewer of these root causes

            I fear that the world’s most powerful countries (and many others) are increasingly ruled by these people who desire absolute control, and who fan the flames of hatred for people that do not look or behave like their followers

  2. The New Student 2

    Meanwhile the rest of America are anything but peaceful. War, hate, fear division and discrimination at home. Doesn’t bode well eh.

    But here’s hoping DT can come to peaceful terms with the best MC of the ex-CCCP

    • Paul 2.1

      From memory, it was Clinton who said Trump’s supporters should accept the reslts of democracy if they lost the election.
      Her own supporters should follow her advice.

      • Stuart Munro 2.1.1

        I doubt Hillary encouraged her supporters to riot.

        But it wasn’t a noticeably democratic process. If people are outraged (and it seems that many are) they should certainly protest.

        • Paul

          Wonder if Clinton had won and Trump’s supporters had smashed stores and cars, if you would be saying the same thing.

          • Stuart Munro

            Trump explicitly and repeatedly called upon his supporters to violently oppose any result he didn’t like.

            It’s a bit rich to whine about it now. Trump is and always was manifestly unfit to govern. Democracy does not require that you accept a crook who is manifestly unfit to govern. This is why even halfway competent democratic leaders are scrupulous with regard to democratic process. You don’t put a useless corrupted tool like Carter in as speaker for example, because the job requires scrupulous and demonstrable neutrality. And you don’t incite violent responses to electoral processes unless you accept consequences like this.

            • Colonial Viper

              Trump explicitly and repeatedly called upon his supporters to violently oppose any result he didn’t like.

              That’s a bold claim. Where’s your proof? And in reality, it’s Clinton supporters who have violently opposed the election result.

        • Colonial Viper

          I doubt Hillary encouraged her supporters to riot.

          Actually, her campaign gave Clinton supporters the moral cover – nay the moral duty – to riot.

          They did this by demonizing Trump as a racist demagogue and proto-Hitler who needed to be stopped at all costs.

          • Stuart Munro

            Trump demonised himself.

            No-one made him incite beatings at his meetings – that was on him.

            No-one forced him to go on about the election being rigged.

            Shit like this is why he is widely held to be manifestly unfit for office.

            If it stops at a few riots he should count himself lucky.

            • WILD KATIPO

              But the flip side of that coin is that it was revealed that many stirrers at Trump rally’s turned out to be agent provocateurs paid for and on contract by company’s to ferment violence. These private company’s were in turn financed by certain individuals among the Clinton campaign .

              • Stuart Munro

                Evidence please WK – I’d usually take you at your word but there have been way too many bullshit sites and stories being floated around this election.

                How many agent provacateurs were there? What evidence supports this… probable urban myth?

                • Colonial Viper

                  Again, refer to the Project Veritas videos. Caught on tape.

                  Federal prosecutions incoming. Let a grand jury sort out the truth.

            • Colonial Viper

              No-one made him incite beatings at his meetings – that was on him.

              Wrong. The DNC paid operatives to start trouble at Trump rallies.

              via Infowars:


              • Stuart Munro

                You’re aware you’re quoting some of the most implausible bullshit on the web?


                • Colonial Viper

                  Snopes? I always enjoy their passive aggressive shoot the messenger style posing as fact checking.

                  Meanwhile – Project Veritas uncovered a whole level of entrenched Democratic Party dirty ops which fits right in with the wikileaks discoveries.

                  • Stuart Munro

                    There’s no arguing with someone who’s evidential standard is making shit up.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Those are actual known Democratic operatives in those video clips. At least two of them were fired after these videos came out.

                    • Stuart Munro

                      If there were any substance to your allegations you’d be able to link a more credible source athan an altright provocateur who has been repeatedly exposed setting up essentially fake ‘stings’.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      The guys in the video have all been positively identified and at least two of them fired by their employers. Their actions (inciting violence) likely constitute serious crimes.

          • Rae

            Trump did that himself, for crying out loud

        • Nessalt

          outraged at the result of an election. a continuation of the cause that won donald trump the presidency.

          Well shit, by all means, keep it up. it’s obviously working

    • Rae 2.2

      Ex CCCP? Don’t be too sure that Putin wants it to remain so “ex”

  3. Jenny 3

    I was in the Latakia Palestinian refugee camp only months before this little girl was killed in Assad’s naval bombardment of the camp.

    I can personally vouch for the fact that the Palestinian refugees were completely unarmed and helpless.

    Their crime?

    Joining the anti-Assad protests in the city.


    • rocco siffred 3.1

      Nothing new here, Assad senior did far worse against the Palestinians 25 years ago when they tried to rise against him.

    • Colonial Viper 3.2

      Yet you never complain about the jihadists in Eastern Aleppo shelling civilian neighbourhoods the rest of the city.

      Russia and the US working together with Assad will end this once and for all.

      • Stuart Munro 3.2.1

        How do you know they’re jihadists CV? You don’t have to be a jihadist to want to oust Assad.

        Your line is fatuous – like US accusations about terrorists using schools and hospitals as cover. The resistance are shelling Assad force occupied areas because they are taking fire from them.

        • Colonial Viper

          The foreign jihadists in Syria have about 2 months of unencumbered operations left.

          Then they have about 2 months of getting pounded into the dirt by a combination of US, Russian and Syrian munitions.

          • Stuart Munro

            That’s longer than the citizens of Aleppo have – bombed into dust by the unholy alliance of Putin and Assad.

            But that’s okay – these are only totalitarian military dictators – not Muslims.

            • Colonial Viper

              It’s only 20% of Aleppo which remains in jihadist hands.

              • Stuart Munro

                They are not jihadists – they are the townsfolk.

                They have militia allies – when you’re being bombed by a monster like Assad you take what allies you can find.

                Assad & family © – murdering civilians for forty years.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Of course they are jihadists. Their militia allies are also jihadists.

                  Russia has already told us that these terrorists will be given no quarter but they do have the choice to leave the city under amnesty.

                  I expect the rebel held areas of Aleppo to be pacified in the next few weeks.

                  • Stuart Munro

                    If you were being bombed to death by monsters like Assad and Putin you’d pick up a gun too – and pray to Cthulhu if it gave you any comfort.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Pick up some random AK lying around to fight back, sure.

                      But where did they get the modern ATGMs to destroy Assad’s main battle tanks from?

      • miravox 3.2.2

        This is so typically your response cv – don’t address the point, divert.

        I’m interested to know what you actually think about Assad’s naval bombardment of the camp. Not a petulant ‘Look, – over there!’ response.

        So, what do you think about Assad’s actions that led to the death of this child in a Palestinian refugee camp?

        • Colonial Viper

          The reality of war is that innocents will die unnecessarily.

          This is what you get when NATO countries and their gulf allies illegally arm, fund, train and supply jihadists to try and regime change Damascus.

          • miravox

            but, what do you think about Assad’s actions that led to the death of this child in a Palestinian refugee camp?

            • Colonial Viper

              Did Syrian naval artillery cause this child’s death? Can you explain to me why this child’s position had been moved or manipulated before this video was taken? Also why the child’s clothing was pulled up around the neck and shoulders?

              • miravox

                More than 5,000 Palestinian refugees have fled a camp in Latakia, Syria, after President Bashar al-Assad’s forces attacked the port city in the latest military crackdown on dissent, the UN said on Monday.

                UNRWA, the UN agency that aids Palestinian refugees, said the camp’s residents fled after Latakia came under fire from gunboats and ground troops over the weekend. It was not immediately clear where the refugees were seeking shelter.

                “We are calling for access to the camp to find out what is going on,” said UNRWA spokesman Chris Gunness. “There were 10,000 refugees in the camp and we need to find out what is happening to them.”

                Assad has dramatically escalated the crackdown on the five-month-old uprising since the start of the holy month of Ramadan. Despite international outrage, the regime is trying to re-establish firm control in rebellious areas by unleashing tanks, snipers and – in a new tactic – gunships.

                So, what do you think about Assad’s actions that led to the death of this child [or any other child, moved or not moved, or a child’s parent, friend, neighbour or sibling etc.] in a Palestinian refugee camp [official or unofficial] ?

                • Colonial Viper

                  Firstly, I don’t accept that reporting by the Guardian as being complete.

                  Secondly, was that child killed by naval bombardment or by something else?

                  Also why has that child/its clothing been moved?

                  Assad is fully within his rights to restore territorial and security integrity in his country, and to expel illegal foreign invaders.

                  Having said that civilian casualties are an unfortunate and frequent occurrence in a time of war.

                  • miravox

                    Point by point:

                    1. wiki summary then. Although I know that won’t be as acceptable to you as RT


                    The Syrian National Organization for Human Rights said it had the names of 26 confirmed dead in Latakia, while SOHR said most of the deaths were caused by machine-gunning

                    3. see 2, things get a bit disordered with machine guns, I expect.

                    4. This answers my original question. It took awhile, but thanks.

                    I also see that you think it’s acceptable to shoot up a refugee camp (even if Assad claims he didn’t direct shelling toward the camp it seems that everyone, including the Syrian regime agrees soldiers used their guns).

                    5. Next time I see you write about collateral damage caused by US/NATO actions, I’ll remind you “that civilian casualties are an unfortunate and frequent occurrence in a time of war” so we probably can’t apportion blame.

                    Interesting that you see refugees in Syria as illegal foreign invaders. Are you similarly sympathetic to the views of neo-fascists in Europe with their refugee influx?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Syrian Arab Army forces are deeply stretched across the country. They have no spare men or resources for launching stupid, irrelevant, self defeating attacks on non-military targets.

                      On that basis alone my belief is that it is less likely that the refugees were the target of an actual Syrian Arab Army attack, but accept that they may have been caught in the crossfire during a military operation against jihadists or terrorists nearby.

                      As for US/NATO countries. They are (indirectly) responsible for the vast majority of deaths in Syria.

    • Thats tragic, Jenny ,… and happens far , far too often …its difficult to add or subtract to that reality , to be honest.

      However , … grimly … I ‘ll continue on .

      Aside from the post above you gave.

      The link I posted was an interview of Julian Assange by John Pilger , and during it , Assange illustrates the background to Syria, and ISIS etc…

      Turns out, that the governments of both Saudi Arabia and Qatar , ( Bahrain and Morocco were mentioned also ) have donated massive amounts of finance to the Clinton Foundation. That cash is then used to purchase arms from American arms manufacturer’s ,… which is then forwarded on back to the Middle East and then redistributed to ISIS fighters.

      This , among other things ,… is how and why ISIS always seems so well financed and equipped.

      The motives being?

      Saudi Arabia , Qatar, along with their allies are predominantly Sunni Muslims, – as is ISIS ( in the case of ISIS they are exclusively Sunni – and believe all Shia Muslims should be put to death as heretics ).

      Along with the religious purists , – the politics being also that the rise of powerful Shia govts within and without those Sunni nations would be unacceptable.

      Motives for the American neo cons?

      Guaranteed oil supply from middle eastern nation’s that hold a power balance and also are pro USA. Along with huge profit margins due to the sale of arms. It serves certain among the American elite to keep these wars going.

      This explains in part the reticence and seeming ‘impotence’in the Obama administration in doing anything effectual about ISIS. It also explains why Trump could also state ” Were going to bomb the hell out of ISIS” ,… simply because he is in no way tied in to that financial merry go round.

      • Jenny 3.3.1

        As much as I admire John Pilger, when it comes to Syria, Pilger is actually morally and factually wrong. His mistake is that he is working from an outdated paradigm, and has let his (immensely justified) hatred of US Imperialism blind him to the actual situation. Which sees him lining up with a murderous regime purportedly because it is anti- American.

        Would an anti-American regime allow itself to be the most favoured destination for victims of CIA flights of Extraordinary Rendition?

        Would an anti-American regime put 19,000 Syrian soldiers under US command as one of the original members of the “Coalition of the Willing”?

        Would an anti-American regime open up its economy at the behest of the IMF and privatise and sell off its state Assets?

        I could go on.

        To fit his simplistic and outdated narrative John Pilger just simply ignores all of these facts.

        [Hi Jenny, I’m banning you off this post now. I’ve had enough of your ridiculous and continuous claims that Syria and the USA are in fact secret friends or allies. Thanks. CV]

  4. esoteric pineapples 4

    I’m not sure how peace can ever be maintained for anything other than shorts period of time when the paradigm it is built on is balance of power between international and regional forces.

    • One way would be to stomp on those devious individuals that benefit from wars. Those that channel massive amounts of finance into funding wars, while being covered by a MSM and the moguls that run them … that actively supports the bloodshed , – and the manufacturers that benefit from having incessant warfare around the globe.

      And in turn cut off the easy returns because of those wars to the globalist bankers such as the Rothchilds banking elite.

      That might be a start.

      Looks like that process just might have already started to happen recently in the American elections. We’ve yet to see…

  5. keepcalmcarryon 5

    Certainly interesting times ahead when we see how much of what Trump promised/threatened he can or will actually deliver through the republican machine as a bit of an outsider.
    As far as foreign policy goes, I agree there is hope for winding back some tension with the Russians, thats got to be a good thing.
    I dont like his support for the Israelis at the expense of the Palestinians one bit, also what will he do re Iran if he is making peace with the Russians?
    There are some pretty convoluted agendas to unravel in the middle east.

  6. save nz 6

    Peace between Russian and USA sounds good to me.

    They are already proclaiming that Trump is the demise of neoliberal era.


  7. lprent 7

    It is always amusing reading CV’s recent fantasies. He likes to read into words whatever he chooses to.

    I want to tell the world community that while we will always put America’s interests first, we will deal fairly with everyone, with everyone — all people and all other nations. We will seek common ground, not hostility; partnership, not conflict.

    Does America have many common interests with Putin’s Russia? It is fucking hard to see any. Trade is infinitesimal. Indeed the Russian economy has tanked like a stone along with hydrocarbon prices after years of gangster like profit extractions and low maintenance, so it is hardly likely that there is any useful economic relationship between them for at least decades at best.

    America and Russia simply don’t cooperate in any sphere, basically because Russia isn’t capable of being any more than a nuisance and a threat. It doesn’t appear to be capable of having cooperation as they dearly need to have an external enemy to keep Putin’s popularity up.

    Besides if it was Russia that Trump and his advisers were directing that statement at, then why wouldn’t they have just said so? Probably because there are other states who actually have common ground with the USA.

    America clearly does have strong common interests in trade and security with a number of other areas in the world. All of whom Trump has clearly pissed off. The EU, China, the two states bordering the USA, and most of the other states that actually participate in world. NZ and AUS for instance with our governments interest in trade deals.

    I suspect that the ‘Trump’ statement was more aimed at those many states than it was with a single nearly failed state.

    About the only major importance that Russia has these days is their nuisance value. And it isn’t exactly the only state that is nuclear armed, secretly or overtly, that US deals with. These days there are many. But reading between the lines both CV (and this lunatic blogsite he links to) seem to implicitly think Russia is the only one worth worrying about…

    Please – this is simpletons thinking.

    • Colonial Viper 7.1

      America and Russia simply don’t cooperate in any sphere, basically because Russia isn’t capable of being any more than a nuisance and a threat. It doesn’t appear to be capable of having cooperation as they dearly need to have an external enemy to keep Putin’s popularity up.

      Good evening to you, lprent.

      You may want to look up what a loss of Russian supplied RD180 rocket engines and Soyuz manned launch vehicles would do to the NASA manned space programme at the ISS and the Pentagon’s satellite launch programme.

      You may want to look up what a loss of Russian aerospace titanium alloys would do to US corporates like Boeing and Lockheed Martin.

      You may want to look up what the loss of Russian logistics cooperation to US/NATO forces in Afghanistan would do to western security objectives in that country.

      You may want to look up how Russian authorities gave the US early warning about the Chechen Tsarnaev brothers who bombed the Boston Marathon.

      Does America have many common interests with Putin’s Russia?

      How about not turning the nicer parts of the world into Trinitite, based on an insignificant pile of rocks and sand called Syria?

      But reading between the lines both CV (and this lunatic blogsite he links to) seem to implicitly think Russia is the only one worth worrying about…

      Not the only one. But do any other nuclear armed country have MIRV equipped ICBM armed submarines?

      • lprent 7.1.1

        Taking your points in order…

        1. I am sure that the Trump has a line somewhere about the manned program in space. It probably starts with the word ‘cut’. However SpaceX and the like wouldn’t take long to get cheaply into low earth orbit. They are largely slowed at present by their desire not to rush development. The Chinese have quite an interesting manned program. probably looking for launch cash.

        And as I said, Russia is capable of being a nuisance. But bearing in mind the amount that the US and EU pay for launches, I suspect that the nuisance value would be pretty equal for a desperately unproductive economy.

        2. There are other sources for titanium. Wikipedia says (notice the order of volume)

        As of 2015, titanium sponge metal was produced in six countries: China, Japan, Russia, Kazakhstan, the USA, Ukraine and India. (in order of output).[48][49]

        The alloys aren’t too hard to make, and are in fact rather well known these days. The Russians pioneered – but that was way back when I was a kid.

        There are titanium deposits everywhere worldwide. There are even viable titanium deposits here that we don’t use in the northern west coast iron sands. They just haven’t been economic to produce from given cheaper sources. However if the level of supply dropped that dynamic would change and very rapidly. So again you are looking at nuisance value and I’d question to whom would the largest nuisance be. Your understanding of titanium economics appears to be stuck in the 1960s or 70s. There was a reason why it was dropped from everyone’s strategic metal stockpiles more than a decade ago.

        3. Wikipedia again

        The NATO troop presence would amount to approximately 13,000 troops including 9,800 Americans as well as 26,000 military contractors.[71][72][73]

        . The supply situation is mainly via Pakistan because the northern route through the ‘stans is just about as useless as it has always been. See thisfor an example during the 2014/15 withdrawal.

        Currently, the US is shipping about 3% of its cargo through the northern, Central Asia routes. This compares with about 42% via Pakistan.
        The Central Asian route is also being used by the US to ship into Afghanistan – about a third of all supplies to support the ongoing operations.

        However there doesn’t appear to have been a lot of recent Russian logistics. Maybe early during the buildup? (just how old is your news feed?)

        4. FFS cooperation on drugs and a lot of terrorism has been going on since the 1950s, right through the middle of the cold war. Common interest, at about the same level as that between the USA and Bolivia.

        5. Humans have been in a position to turn large chunks of the world into temporary metamorphic surfaces since the 1950s – before I was born. The only difference now is that there are more players capable of doing it, and the environmental downside of an abrupt reversal of the current vector for climate change is better understood. It really is a MAD proposition, and even more so than was realised back in the cold war.

        6. Why do you ask for stuff that is accessible on Wikipedia.

        Currently boomer boats exist in the navies of US, UK, France, China, India, and Russia. As far as I am aware all of them MIRV their ballistic missiles. Otherwise they’d be pretty useless.

        North Korea is likely to join then shortly.

        It wouldn’t surprise me if South Korea, Taiwan, and Pakistan have covert programmes.

        For that matter, I’m pretty sure that a number of other countries have the required contingency expertise and existing R&D to produce them rapidly if required – including our immediate neighbours.

        But these days I suspect that most countries are more likely to build cruise missile platforms. Those things are easy to build and have harder to detect launch locations. You can also carry way more warheads. While you can’t do the longer ranges, it is pretty hard even now to detect subs coming into your coasts.

        And 7. You appear to not read a lot. perhaps you should do more extensive study outside of illiterate nutter websites.

        • Colonial Viper

          Firstly I talked about MIRV ICBM armed submarines lprent. India’s aren’t MIRV armed. China’s new ones may be.

          Learn to read.

          Secondly, how do you believe that the ISS will function without Soyuz launch vehicles for the next 5 years while SpaceX figures out how to keep humans alive without incinerating them.

          Thirdly, you claimed that Russia and the USA didn’t cooperate in “any sphere.” I proved you wrong. Just like the prospects of a Trump win. Get used to it.

        • Colonial Viper

          One more thing. Even for someone overly dependent on mainstream media sources and anglo-US propaganda like you are, I bet you’ve already reached the same conclusion that I have.

          NZ Labour is very likely to lose next year, and Andrew Little is very likely to be replaced as Leader soon after.

  8. Colonial Viper 8

    President Putin and President Elect Trump talk on the phone: first steps in normalising superpower relations and de-escalating conflict.


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