There is no recession in New Zealand

57 comments on “There is no recession in New Zealand ”

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1. Roy Cartland 1

   21 September 2023 at 11:33 am

   I just saw it on RNZ and that was my first thought too. The Nats will be spewing!
2. SPC 2

   21 September 2023 at 11:36 am

   There was no recession.
3. Corey 3

   21 September 2023 at 12:02 pm

   Nz may not be in a recession but I wouldn't be shouting from the rooftops how great the economy is and how everything is fine because for most people it's not fine.

   For two years kiwis have felt their living standards slip, and Labour has been incredibly hands off from it's insanely timid supermarket reforms to it's refusal to even think about anyone but the private sector building homes.

   Times are incredibly tough. Tougher than they were in the GFC and Labour is offering next to nothing meaningful on a ground level to minimize the suffering.

   The last thing Labour needs to be doing is shouting from the rooftops everything is fine in a coat of living crisis, it'll just further turn off the voters Labour needs.

   At 27% Labour won't even be an effective opposition party, at 27% Labour can expect 2-3 terms in opposition and an internal civil war immediately after the election.

   it needs to be throwing everything including the kitchen sink at voters to at the very least get it's base excited but three weeks out from an election is continuing to drift rightward an offer nothing of substance.

   Shouting that the rich are doing well and the economy isn't in a technical recession under Labour is not going to win many millenials Gen z, poor, working class or struggling middle class voters.

   Gen z and millenials vote based off policy… Labour has nothing to offer in policy.

   Boomers and Gen x seem to vote based off personality… Labour again has nothing to offer in this regard.

   Labour genuinely deserves to lose this election not just for the wasted mmp majority and wasting almost every opportunity in the last three years to meaningfully reform nz and it's economy and commerce not just for the constant ministerial f*** ups,but right now for totally and utterly misreading the country. For two years the country has been screaming and crying for help and Labour go into the election ignoring those crys for help and offering *checks notes* $4 a week off fruit and veges.

   I hope Labour can cobble together a coalition but they are gonna get a historical thumping.

   Campaigning on "we're not as bad as the other lot" never works for the left. We always need excitement, passion and energy and chippy seems to be alergic to anything but bland third way centrism.
   • bwaghorn 3.1

     21 September 2023 at 12:09 pm

     People borrowed like no tomorrow when interst rates where at record lows, did it not dawn on them that they would go up again?

     I have no mortgage life ain't to bad!
     • Tricledrown 3.1.1

       22 September 2023 at 1:57 pm

       Good for you most young families can't put food on the table or pay all their bills rents/ housing electricity groceries all going up and all you can do is gloat.

       No wonder the left are not connecting with voter's! Tax cuts are an easy sell for the 70% who are doing it hard.But chippy can't breakthrough that narrative.Because he is not the finance minister he can't remember things like only 30% of families will be better off under National that is those families earning over $100,000 a year which doesn't include single parent families who won't get anything under National so only 20% of families will be better off. Labour haven't taken National to task on who is better off a Webb site should be set up with a.meter showing who gets what.ie a family on the median average income will only get $10 a week while those on $120,000 will get $60+ a week.So the bottom 70% of families will be worse off as minimum wages will be kept low wage bargaining gone,free prescriptions,cheap winter power,child care etc etc all gone with Seymour and Luxon having to cut more than what National claim!
   • SPC 3.2

     21 September 2023 at 12:24 pm

     Boomers and Gen x seem to vote based off personality…

     No, the haves vote their privilege and they came from a time when home ownership was common. And their privileged descendants (no estate tax) inherit the land/earth.
   • Patricia Bremner 3.3

     21 September 2023 at 1:40 pm

     Some facts Corey, unemployment was 6.6 after GFC.

     Current unemployment is 3.4 after the Pandemic, Terror attack, eruption, mico plasma bovis, war shortages oil price spikes interest rate hikes.

     It has been a difficult period, and it will get more difficult with climate change.

     The Left are not allowed to celebrate small but significant successes, there are too many bloody well enjoying self flagellation.

     This is a feature of the Left. The Right ignore their faults.

     Now Luxon has been pedalling another lie." NZ in Recession, going backwards Worst Minister of Finance ever"

     Will any honest member of Media call Luxon out.???

     His hyperbole is dreadful, and Luxon will take us backwards. imo.
   • James Simpson 3.4

     21 September 2023 at 1:42 pm

     If Labour want to fight the election on the economy, they will lose big time. The economy is not their strength.

     The rich have done well in the past 3 years and are not effected by high inflation. The working poor are getting hammered.

     Trying to use these numbers as some kind of reason to vote for Labour, demonstrates a complete loss of reality.
     • Patricia Bremner 3.4.1

       21 September 2023 at 2:30 pm

       James,
       Where is the social conscience of those rich "that have done well in the past 3 years"?

       Do they live outside our society?

       Queenstown is discovering what the rules are for, and what happens when you ignore them.
       • Stephen D 3.4.1.1

         21 September 2023 at 3:16 pm

         They live in their own bubble, Patricia. The rest of the world can burn, but as long as they’re ok. Who cares.
       • James Simpson 3.4.1.2

         21 September 2023 at 3:21 pm

         I'm not sure where there social conscience is. But they will mostly be voting NACT.
     • Louis 3.4.2

       24 September 2023 at 10:19 pm

       @ James. The topic of this article shows the economy is one of Labour's strengths.
       • James Simpson 3.4.2.1

         25 September 2023 at 1:55 pm

         You clearly don't mix with the working poor if you think the economy is strong.

         Unemployment is predicted to increase to 5.4% in the next 18 months (PREFU), and interest rates are going to keep rising while inflation stays high.

         The right don't have the answers for those two problems, but if you are trying to suggest they are not problems then I'm not sure there is much point debating.
         • SPC 3.4.2.1.1

           25 September 2023 at 5:13 pm

           The working poor – dependent on MW increases and the FPA industry awards to keep ahead of rising costs, such as rent.

           A $25 a week tax cut is less than a $1 an hour wage increase – $40. ACT wants a MW frozen for 3 years. It's been going up $1 to $1.50 an hour of late each and every year.

           The FPA industry awards should do the same for those on higher wages.

           Interest rates are a concern of those who pay mortgages, not those who rent.
           • James Simpson 3.4.2.1.1.1

             26 September 2023 at 9:58 am

             Interest rates are a concern of those who pay mortgages

             Yep, and guess what….they vote.

             National and Act policies are a disaster and will not make things better for most people.

             But from a tactical perspective it is a very dumb idea in my opinion for the government to be campaigning on the state of the economy at a time when when things are so tight and hard for most people.
             • Louis …

               6 October 2023 at 9:06 pm

               Stronger than expected GDP underlines confidence in economy

               https://union.org.nz/stronger-than-expected-gdp-underlines-confidence-in-economy/#:~:text=The%20economy%20is%20in%20stronger,the%20economy%2C%E2%80%9D%20said%20Renney.
         • Louis 3.4.2.1.2

           6 October 2023 at 9:03 pm

           Your assumptions are incorrect and predictions can be wrong.
     • SPC 3.4.3

       25 September 2023 at 5:09 pm

       One of those who still believes the myth about neo-liberal economic competence.

       1970's – opposed a super fund to enable local ownership of our economic assets. National.

       1980's-1990's – an international market economy with ownership of property available to those on higher incomes (end of estate tax) after the cut of the top rate of income tax from 66 to 33%, despite downward pressure on wages. Labour and National

       1990's – an economy based around low wage levels (ECA destruction of unions) and no investment in apprenticeships, or research and development. A low productivity disaster. National.

       2000-2023. a population growth driven economy. Major beneficiary banks lending on rising property value mortgages (most profit offshore and little tax revenue derived to government). National and Labour.

       2000-2023 an effort to Labour to revive unions ECR to FPA, rising MW, apprenticeships, R and D. Cullen Fund and later one to deal with climate change induced events. All opposed by National.

       2000-2023. WFF so the poor could still afford to have children, if not own homes as well. And KiwiSaver. Labour and to a degree also National.

       Every wrong policy – National. Some Labour also.

       Your reckons …
4. bwaghorn 4

   21 September 2023 at 12:07 pm

   I'd love a social scientist to do a paper on the toxic effect on a country's psyches of have a political party being constantly negative wet and whiny for 6 years when the country is battling a pandemic and inflation caused by outside influences.
   • Barfly 4.1

     21 September 2023 at 4:47 pm

     I'd love to be rich so I could pay someone to do it and mercilessly beat the people over the head with it (metaphorically)
   • Tricledrown 4.2

     22 September 2023 at 2:03 pm

     The right know this already and know how to divide opinion avoid the truth to keep the poor poor and the rich rich.They know how to Spin a complete lie and keep spinning it like Donald Trump until the Media stop holding them to Account.
5. Reality 5

   21 September 2023 at 12:49 pm

   The serious and draining effect of Covid on NZ over the last three years seems to have been forgotten, which is understandable in a way because people want to move on from that difficult time. But Covid must have affected the government being able to progress on many areas.

   Let us not forget the demands of National – "open the borders". They were not concerned in any way about how many more people may have died. At a time the country should have been united, all they and Act did was want to put business first, ahead of people's health. I will never forget their "open the borders" demands.

   Let us not forget also the businesses who claimed the wage subsidy even as they were making healthy profits.

   Whatever could or should have been done by the Government, they put people first.
   • observer 5.1

     21 September 2023 at 2:02 pm

     Absolutely true.

     Who said this: "the Government did a very good job in following the health advice in 2020 … "

     Answer: Christopher Luxon, 2021. Citation:

     No need for Auckland borders: Christopher Luxon | Stuff.co.nz

     Nobody remembers this, because the media have moved on, but also (and this is unforgivable) because Hipkins and Labour are too bloody passive to fight back, even with National's own policies and statements.

     Every day National say "the past 6 years", as if nothing had happened and every day this false framing is reinforced in the public mind. That is why they are winning, and Labour's response is … to spend a TV debate agreeing with National. Useless.
   • mary_a 5.2

     21 September 2023 at 2:59 pm

     100% agree Reality (5)👍
   • Belladonna 5.3

     21 September 2023 at 3:52 pm

     Whatever could or should have been done by the Government, they put people first.

     Sounds like an epitaph.

     Every time the Left (especially Labour) references Covid, they lose.
     Psychologically, it's associating the Government with a time of anxiety and misery for Kiwis. They *want* to move on. They don't want to be reminded.

     Yes, Yes, YMMV – if you are a died-in-the-wool Leftie – my party, right or wrong – but the majority of Kiwis are not.
     • Drowsy M. Kram 5.3.1

       21 September 2023 at 7:48 pm

       Many here, and around the world tragically lost their lives to COVID-19, but no epitaph for me (yet!) I credit our government's prioritisation of health during a pandemic for that, and won't be forgetting in a hurry.

       Just hope I've shuffled off before we face a pandemic with the Nats in charge.

       Coronavirus: Bridges urges shift to level 2, saying more COVID-19 cases possible at any alert level

       Coronavirus: Simon Bridges urges Government to lift lockdown next week, take Australian approach

       National leader Judith Collins question's Government's transparency over community transmission

       What would actually happen if Covid-19 restrictions were stopped?
       National Party leader Christopher Luxon is pressing the Government to ease up on the Covid-19 restrictions.
       • Descendant Of Smith 5.3.1.1

         22 September 2023 at 4:06 pm

         One of my daughter's friends in the US lost 3 of her siblings to COVID – all under 16. None had pre-existing medical conditions. One early on and two in a later wave. She got mildly sick as did her parents. She is still distraught as are her parents.

         A school mate of hers who ended up in the states when his parents separated (his sister stayed in NZ with the dad) also died from/with COVID. On such simple and unrelated decisions did some sad outcomes depend.

         There was no rhyme or reason in so many cases as to who lived and who died.

         My daughter is ever so grateful for how we managed the pandemic and protected our population particularly as she has genetic health conditions.

         I get no sense NZ is as community connected as Sweden, has the less politically influenced public service (esp since CEO's were moved from the SSC nor had an opposition which would have supported the government in what ever decision they made, nor a business community that had taken any notice what-so-ever of the pandemic planning 10 years earlier.

         Sweden was in a much stronger position to do what they did.

         https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/sweden-during-pandemic#endnotes
     • observer 5.3.2

       21 September 2023 at 8:00 pm

       So your measure of truth is opinion polls.

       It is not "my party right or wrong". It is a fact that spending was significantly increased to save lives and the opposition supported it. Were they wrong?

       If you believe the test is not "is it true" but "do people want to hear it right now" then you might as well advocate for every war from Vietnam to Iraq, or say nothing about climate change, etc, etc. So many issues have shifting public opinion, and if that is your moral compass, you are lost.

       "Perception" changes. Facts don't.
       • Belladonna 5.3.2.1

         21 September 2023 at 9:19 pm

         Perception, however, is the reality which matters in a democracy.

         No doubt your conscious rectitude will comfort you in the wilderness of electoral defeat.
         • Drowsy M. Kram 5.3.2.1.1

           21 September 2023 at 11:59 pm

           You're right – short-term perception-driven behaviours continue to knee-cap rational responses to the reality of self-made civilisation-ending threats.

           Spaceship Earth will continue to warm long after anyone alive today stops converting fuel and oxygen to CO2 – a reality future generations can bank on.

           Take comfort in your perceptions B. Best of luck getting ahead, and keep fighting your centrist corner.

           James Hansen speaks out about global climate change [2012 TED talk]
           This [energy] imbalance, if we want to stabilize climate, means that we must reduce CO2 from 391 ppm, parts per million, back to 350 ppm. That is the change needed to restore energy balance and prevent further warming.

           Big news in the close-knit and secretive climate change community!
           At Mauna Loa observatory in Hawaii they just measured Atmospheric CO2 at its highest level in human history – 423.01 ppm!!!
           • Belladonna 5.3.2.1.1.1

             22 September 2023 at 6:50 am

             "You're right – short-term perception-driven behaviours continue to knee-cap rational responses to the reality of self-made civilisation-ending threats.

             Including the multiple TS members who have recently commented on their overseas holidays.

             CO2 doesn't care if you're a died-in-the-wool leftie – your aircraft emissions conttribute just as much as the ACT voter in the seat beside you.

             Not that this comment originally had anything to do with climate change – it was about the negative psychological response of voters to the association of Labour (and the podium of truth!) with Covid.
             Even for you – it’s a bit of a stretch to tie this into climate change.
             • Drowsy M. Kram …

               22 September 2023 at 11:15 am

               "The podium of truth!" – oh dear. But OK, if that's your perception.

               Pleased that you perceive the threats from carbon emissions. Luxon is, in his own words, a "naturally humble and focused" person, who used to run a government-owned airline – I just wish NAct pollies could focus on the reality of emission threats like you do. Instead they continue to serve up 'repeal and delay' "back to the drawing board" policies – it's unreal !

               Future Act MP held ‘climate hysteria skeptics’ meetings at high school
               [13 October 2020]
               David Seymour is quoted as saying Baillie would bring common sense to parliament.

               Baillie is currently ACT’s education spokesperson.

               https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0309/S00040/images-farmers-fart-tax-protest-at-parliament.htm “Images from the National Party media unit.”

               Brownlee is currently the Nat's Emergency Management spokesperson.

               NAct pollies may be sufficiently forward-focused for centrists, but if NZ is operating at current levels of inequality when the shit really hits the fan, then imho pandemic-level 'inconvenience' will be the least of our worries.

               Once again, B, best of luck to you and yours – we’re all in this together.

               Opinion: Luxon must go back to the drawing board [6 May 2022]
               In reality we need several big-bang solutions but the National Party is either for maintaining the status quo or going backwards. Both are untenable choices. Fortunately, the next election is still a long way away and we can hope that by then Luxon will do some homework and bring some real policy ideas that address our current challenges beyond giving himself a tax cut.
   • Ad 5.4

     21 September 2023 at 7:55 pm

     I'd suggest exactly the opposite on COVID affecting governmental progress.

     COVID showed that central government still had the capacity and will where necessary to intervene more deeply into the entire private sector of the economy than at any time since the Great Depression, and also still had the capacity and will to use coercive powers we haven't seen since the Polio outbreak of the 1950s to command-and-control the whole of society.

     This was a far more muscular show of what the state could do than anything Key did with the Christchurch Earthquake. Underscored by the daily briefings to us all by the Prime Minister for months and months until the necessity started to reside.

     What we were missing was coherent structural redesign to right us afterward as a country. Also missing a coherent economic plan for businesses to grasp. Also missing a social plan to make sense of massive recentralisation.

     Which is, electorally, why we are here now.
     • Louis 5.4.1

       24 September 2023 at 10:26 pm

       Saving lives, saved the economy. It was about trying to save as many lives as possible, keeping businesses afloat, and keeping workers in jobs.
   • Louis 5.5

     24 September 2023 at 10:20 pm

     Well said Reality.
6. Tiger Mountain 6

   21 September 2023 at 1:41 pm

   There is no depression in Noo Zee-ee-lan…there are no sheep on our farms etc.… Blam Blam Blam classic
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HVogejKx_c&list=RD2HVogejKx_c&index=1

   Baldrick will be loving this. Corey upthread is correct of course about the reality of “wot Labah dun to etsself” particularly since 2020, wealth tax, slap the oil industry and Supermarkets and they would have hosed in. But, but, “Cap’n’s Call”…

   When David Parker chucks his portfolio on the Caucus table, you know there is a serious problem with NZ Labour.
7. Adrian 7

   21 September 2023 at 2:02 pm

   Jeez.. I wish they would give me a go at writing Chppys speeches. He needs to get pissed off about the lies, he needs to tell Luxon the next time he uses the gangs are Labour bullshit that he, Chippy, is angry and well pissed off about the constant lying. Come on Chippy, grow some.
   • observer 7.1

     21 September 2023 at 2:19 pm

     He's spent his working life in Parliament. The place where nobody is allowed to say "you're lying". That has been the whole problem since he became PM.

     Hipkins seems to think an election will be decided by a carefully considered Speaker's ruling on the facts. Luxon knows he can get away with bullshit, so he does.
   • Ad 7.2

     21 September 2023 at 7:56 pm

     +100 nothing to lose now
8. observer 8

   21 September 2023 at 2:12 pm

   National know perfectly well that shamelessly repeating a fiction for months and months before an election is far more effective than being proved wrong 12 days before people start voting.

   And if a party in government thinks the best counter-strategy is meekly promising not to do things that differentiate them from the opposition, the liars win.
   • Roy Cartland 8.1

     21 September 2023 at 3:17 pm

     Surely Chippy and the LAB know all this. They aren’t completely clueless. Is it too much of a stretch to wonder if Labour would rather a NAT government got in than have to share power with the Greens or TMP? NAT and LAB are both centrists after all.
   • AB 8.2

     21 September 2023 at 8:03 pm

     Well said. And sadly Mickey is wrong to say that National operatives will be in despair. They'll just swap the "only country in Asia-Pac that's in recession" lie for a different one. It's done it's job anyway after being endlessly repeated for months.
9. James Simpson 9

   21 September 2023 at 3:29 pm

   This isn't good new for anyone with a mortgage
   • bwaghorn 9.1

     21 September 2023 at 7:36 pm

     Yeah it is , try paying one without a job
     • James Simpson 9.1.1

       22 September 2023 at 9:48 am

       Paying one without a job is tough indeed.

       But the point I was making is the Reserve Bank's aggressive rate rises, was intended to manufacture a recession. The fact we have growth and high inflation means they will not be inclined to slow down on the rate rises. That means more pain for the mortgage belt.

       On the flip side unemployment is forecast to rise to 5.4% in the next 18 months (PREFU) so that may dampen things anyway.
10. Ad 10

    21 September 2023 at 7:59 pm

    If it couldn't name itself a recession, then it'll probably do 'till a real one comes round
11. Ffloyd 11

    22 September 2023 at 12:25 pm

    Could someone tell me what qualifications Willis has for being Finance spokesperson for National? Genuine question.
    • Ad 11.1

      22 September 2023 at 12:36 pm

      Better than Robertson's.

      She was a category manager for Fonterra.

      She was a political consultant.

      She worked in John Key's Office.

      And that's enough these days apparently.
    • Drowsy M. Kram 11.2

      22 September 2023 at 12:36 pm

      Snippets from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicola_Willis_(politician)

      She graduated with a first-class honours degree in English literature from Victoria University of Wellington in 2003, and earned a post-graduate diploma in journalism from the University of Canterbury in 2017.
      …
      In 2012, Willis joined dairy co-operative Fonterra, taking on senior management roles, as well as serving on the board of Export NZ, a division of lobbyist group Business New Zealand.
      …
      Willis was a director of the New Zealand Initiative, a pro-free-market public-policy think tank, from May 2016 until February 2017.
      …
      She is a member of the National Party's BlueGreen environmental caucus.
      …
      In the 2020 New Zealand general election, Willis' unsuccessful campaign in the Wellington Central focussed heavily on increasing roading in the central city, with the slogan 'Four Lanes to the Planes'.

      Ah, BlueGreens and their 'Four Lanes to the Planes' – making sure the exit is clear
    • Belladonna 11.3

      22 September 2023 at 6:34 pm

      I think you have to go back to English to find a Minister of Finance with any actual Treasury experience. And right back to Roger Douglas to find one with any finance qualifications (accountancy degree); and then Muldoon (also accountancy).
      Bill Rowling is the most recent one I’ve been able to find with an academic qualification in economics.

      Actual financial qualifications and hands-on experience seem, rarely, to have been a required qualification for the job.
      • lprent 11.3.1

        22 September 2023 at 7:34 pm

        Formal qualifications aren’t the useful an indicator a lot of the time. What is actually useful is the training in how to think and how to learn.

        I have a couple of completed degrees. Neither of them have anything to do with the work I have been doing full time since 1990. Which is designing and writing code, mostly in c++ (the language that I prefer) and at almost every level from single processor chips to single board computers to the high speed and high capacity remote server systems that I currently work on.

        But my degrees are in earth sciences and management, and had little to do with computers. I just spent a lot of time playimh with computers all the way back to 1980. My profession is a hobby that took over my work. Which I learnt mostly on the job with a few mostly aborted courses crammed in other degrees or between projects.

        Before 1990, after the first degree I did tech sales mostly targeted at large Think Big sites, ran small factories, did computer support over a lot of the SI whilst waiting for ex to finish her degrees, and was the inventory manager for a significant local retailers.

        I actually did my masters purely because I was having communications issues with accountants who keep shutting down or selling factories which were making a reasonable profits. Turned out that accountancy was mostly about some pretty simple concepts done with some attention, and a shorthand language. I’ve written accounting systems and supported them in the field at various times. Easy work. Same with economics – language and concepts.

        Literally anyone can do them if they concentrate and have good learning skills.

        Programming is a bit different. Learning it is tricky but not hard. Suffering its learning curve ~20-25% pa and being able to figure out in your head how to build something complicated so others can work on it is way harder. Then being persistent enough to stay on the technology shift wheel is just exhilaration. But you really have to have some raw talent for the task to be very good and to stick with it. Many flake out after their learnt skills go obsolete and wind up as managers (or as I view them – my servants to do the boring bits)

        The only other professions that I am close to that have anything like the same need for unadulterated learning and cross-learning skills tend to be rare. IMO being a career politician is one of them – and I have been around a few over the years. Law gets close. Project engineering often is.

        Being a accountant, private sector manager, economist generally isn’t that useful inside of political spheres or governing. Private sector managers in particular have some real difficulty learning something like politics or governing. The only ones that seem to do it are the ones who weren’t managers – they were political rung climbers in the private sector – usually closely breathing the rear of someone else who actually had some talent.

        You’d actually be better off becoming a politician from teaching – way more of the skills cross over.
        • Belladonna 11.3.1.1

          22 September 2023 at 7:46 pm

          So, based on that criteria – Willis with a Hons degree in English lit, and a post-grad journalism dip; followed by public policy hands-on experience with Bill English – before moving to the corporate sector; is about as qualified as Grant Robertson – Hons degree in politics, followed by MFAT and policy hands-on experience with Clark, before moving to the Otago Uni market research role.

          I guess, I was just surprised how sparse any actual actual economic training or experience was for so many Ministers of Finance.
          • Muttonbird 11.3.1.1.1

            22 September 2023 at 8:42 pm

            It's only accounting and business studies, the very lowest of academic pursuits in secondary and tertiary education.

            As they say, those who can't do science do accounting.
          • lprent 11.3.1.1.2

            26 September 2023 at 3:48 pm

            Yes and No.

            No because the depth and years of political and parliamentary experience (like previous ministerial roles) count for far far more in any given parliamentary role. Any experience gained before getting into parliament pales in comparison for political effectiveness in parliament and national government.

            Yes because it doesn’t matter that much what you did before parliament. It is your parliamentary experience that makes you an effective politician. You may get some background from previous local body experience. But really no that much.

            Prior experience is more about having skills to learn fast and deep, wanting to do it (which lets me out) and concentrating on doing it well over a long term – ie working on a 20-30 year timescale which requires a vast level of persistence.

            The best politician I have run across locally was Helen Clark. She got involved while at university worked as a lecturer in politics and had no private sector experience. She spent about than 50 years concentrating on being a competent, knowledgeable and effective politician inside her party, in government, and internationally. Basically because that was her passion and she wanted to push changes over time.

            At some point any education and even "real world" experience gets vastly outweighed by a simple concentration of learning the profession. Being educated at a tertiary level is usually about 3-5 years.

            Bill English was just as committed towards politics and from roughly the same political generation but you'd have to say that when you look over his political history of achievement – was remarkably ineffective at achieving almost anything that he advocated for.

            To become effective in parliament both in the house and in select committees takes around 5 years based on what I have observed. Working out how to deal with the public servants in their ministries and departments seems to take the same.

            Willis is apparently reasonably competent in parliament after 6 years (unlike Luxon who seems to be flummoxed by it). She may have some previous competence at the public service and corporate side. But it isn't apparent over the obvious unforced errors like her funding for tax cuts that rely on fantasy money from overseas house buyers and the idea of raiding the ETS fund away from its legislated purpose.

            And it is really really hard to see what she is in politics to achieve. Apart from the usual conservative position of trying to return the world to what it wasn't when she was born. While world keeps changing around her.
12. observer 12

    22 September 2023 at 2:38 pm

    Everything you need to know about Trumpy Luxon in one sentence.

    Luxon says New Zealanders "see and feel" that New Zealand is in recession.

    Live: Hipkins and Luxon trade blows on the campaign trail | Stuff.co.nz

    "See and feel". Yep.

    If you believe in the almighty god called "Perception" instead of silly old truth, then logically you must believe in Trump, the leader of the anti-truth tribe. And that has real world consequences.

    Jan 6 at the Capitol was not a matter of "perception". It happened on Planet Earth. Fuelled by worshipping "perception" ahead of truth.
13. Ffloyd 13

    22 September 2023 at 4:08 pm

    DMK…..Thank you for info on Willis. She hardly seems qualified to be running the zFinances of National. Who really is? I had read somewhere she is mentored by Bill English. She also is singing from the same hymn sheet as Luxon. “There might not be a recession but Kiwis are FEELING like there is one” They are HEARING this from the mythical man on the street the Key used to hear so often. They think we are all stupid. We all know they are just trying to turn the narrative around to suit their agenda.

    Very vacuous people. Quite scary to think they could be the one running NZ into the ground. No thoughts spared for the average population (bottom feeders)as Luxon would have us be. Luxon is just making a twat of himself. I am waiting to see him on the catwalk. Not really though.

    Chris Hipkins is being slammed for not getting outraged and shouty when pitched against Luxon but I liked the fact that he stayed out of the gotcha stuff and was statesmanlike and reasonable and mature enough to realise that all that shite gets him nowhere,especially over Luxons burbling. He is honest and principled and didn’t play to the gallery and is passionate about NewZealand/Aotearoa becomes and stays an egalitarian country. Fingers crossed that Labour gets back in.
    • Drowsy M. Kram 13.1

      22 September 2023 at 5:29 pm

      'Vacuous' is apt (as is 'hollow'), but there is intent behind NAct's apparent mindlessness. Luxon's "bottom feeders" might be in for a bout of Ruthanasia, but will they vote?

      On National’s Tax Cuts [31 August 2023]
      Revealingly, National’s chart setting out the potential income gains has omitted everyone earning below $30,000 as if they don’t exist – and that’s an accurate reflection of how the “bottom feeders” simply don’t register on the centre-right’s voter radar. So much so that anyone earning below $45,000 a year would receive only $2 a week extra from National’s tax relief package, and nothing at all from its fiddling with the tax thresholds and from tweaks to the Independent Earner Tax Credit, to Working for Families and to childcare rebates.

      Christopher Luxon explains his 'bottom feeding' comments

      Today's classroom visitor is Mr Luxon from the National Party
      MR LUXON: If you were naughty you went to boot camp and got scared into being an ordinary hardworking New Zealander. Or you became a bottom-feeder. Don’t become bottom-feeders, boys and girls.

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