TPP – Let it go John

Written By: - Date published: 7:23 am, September 21st, 2016 - 132 comments
Categories: Globalisation, john key, trade, us politics - Tags: , ,

With the TPP slipping away the masks are coming off – PM warns US could lose clout in Asia-Pacific if it doesn’t ratify TPP. Yes, never mind the “free trade” fluff, this is about geopolitics.

Key has a lot invested – Soper calls it “his beloved Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement”. He seems to be getting a bit desperate –

John Key stated it as plainly as he dared in New York yesterday: failure to ratify the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement would be a “massive lost opportunity” for the United States, he said, “because in the end is that vacuum isn’t filled by the United States, it will be filled by somebody else”.

He could have gone further and suggested the “somebody else” could be China.

Not sure what Key thought he was going to accomplish – teaching the Obama administration how to suck eggs? Really? They know exactly what the TPP is about, they have their own problems (hello President Trump), and shrill squawking from NZ isn’t going to make a blind bit of difference.

Let it go John.

132 comments on “TPP – Let it go John ”

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  1. Nick 1
    21 September 2016 at 8:06 am

    America is flooded with lying politicians…. Why would they want to listen to a lying politician from NZ….

    • You_Fool 1.1
      21 September 2016 at 9:09 am

      Especially such a rank amateur such as Key. I mean the US is the big time leagues for lying politicians, you got to have a world class game to play there….

  2. Colonial Viper 2
    21 September 2016 at 8:10 am

    It was a fawning job interview. Plain and simple.

    • Keith 2.1
      21 September 2016 at 8:26 am

      He really really is going the extra mile on this one isn’t he?

      Lord knows it’s bad for most of us so I assume with all the spade work there had to be some personal gain for Key.

  3. Michelle 3
    21 September 2016 at 8:20 am

    Johns TPPA with a treaty clause that has hairs on it.

  4. srylands 4
    21 September 2016 at 8:23 am

    He should not ‘let it go’. He has a duty as PM to promote the prosperity of New Zealand.

    • framu 4.1
      21 September 2016 at 8:27 am

      and whats the % of GDP we gain from it?

      • Infused 4.1.1
        21 September 2016 at 3:36 pm

        likely understated, like the china fta.

        • KJT 4.1.1.1
          29 September 2016 at 4:19 pm

          By the time we factor in the costs of the China FTA it doesn’t look that good, but never expect right wing “Parties of business” to understand that a ledger has two sides.

    • dukeofurl 4.2
      21 September 2016 at 8:33 am

      promote the prosperity of the whole country not the top 20%

    • ropata 4.3
      21 September 2016 at 9:28 am

      FJK is a dutiful servant of corporate America

    • Matthew Whitehead 4.4
      21 September 2016 at 10:25 am

      And if the TPP were actually going to contribute to the prosperity for more than a fraction of a percent of the people living in New Zealand, I might agree. However every single piece of information we’ve had about how the deal is structured makes it obvious it is yet another pro-corporate piece of garbage masquerading as a trade deal. Let’s just throw it out and start again if we actually care about international trade that benefits regular people.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.4.1
        21 September 2016 at 12:05 pm

        +1

        • Matthew Whitehead 4.4.1.1
          21 September 2016 at 12:11 pm

          I’m just waiting for someone to troll on in and accuse us all of being anti-trade or being racist because we want the average worker in all the TPP countries to benefit from any trade deals we do.

          It’s not too much to ask, but time and again we have MFAT pushing for deals based purely on how they will perform for the already-wealthy. Trade deals should, ideally, raise the overall median wage in all countries concerned, even if certain industries in certain countries lose out.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.4.1.1.1
            21 September 2016 at 1:20 pm

            Trade deals should, ideally, raise the overall median wage in all countries concerned, even if certain industries in certain countries lose out.

            Should do but they never will. In fact, when at uni I was taught that FTAs will always lower wages in developed countries.

            That’s why I say setting standards is a better idea than FTAs as it maintains high working conditions, quality of goods and wages rather than the race to the bottom that the FTAs promote.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.5
      21 September 2016 at 12:04 pm

      The TPPA is about the exact opposite. It will cause serious hardship and increased poverty across the nation and all so that few rich people can have more money.

    • Anno1701 4.6
      21 September 2016 at 12:19 pm

      ” He has a duty as PM to promote the prosperity of New Zealand”

      pitiful throw away line

      you getting tired ?

  5. mary_a 5
    21 September 2016 at 8:51 am

    John Key, a desperate, insignificant, pathetic little man, trying to convince the US to consider the consequences of not going with the TTPA. What a joke.

    No flag change, no TPPA, followed soon hopefully by no John Key.

    • Chuck 5.1
      21 September 2016 at 9:10 am

      Assuming your rant is correct mary_a, then what a insignificant, pathetic opposition we have had in NZ for the past 8-9 years.

      3 elections, for no result…and @ 26% for Labour, it will be 4 elections for John Key and National.

      • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1
        21 September 2016 at 9:30 am

        Its all about the economy etc so yeah I easily see another term for John Key

        • ropata 5.1.1.1
          21 September 2016 at 10:01 am

          Yes the pillaging of NZ by corporations, banks and the 1% is still going pretty well. Recent polls indicate there could be a few glitches coming up though. Fingers crossed eh?

          • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1.1.1
            21 September 2016 at 10:23 am

            Do you mean Andrew Littles private poll, the private poll that happens to be out of step with every other poll, the poll Labour paid for that says Labour and National are close?

            Yeah I don’t think I’ll bother about crossing my fingers

            • ropata 5.1.1.1.1.1
              21 September 2016 at 10:30 am

              O yeah I forgot, the RWNJ gods prefer human sacrifice and environmental devastation. As you were

              • Puckish Rogue …
                21 September 2016 at 10:49 am

                We’ve evolved, we now prefer to use the tears of impotence left wing outrage, mainly because its cheaper to obtain plus it has the benefit of being an infinitely renewable source 🙂

                • Scott …
                  21 September 2016 at 1:21 pm

                  There is probably about 10% of the country that think the moon-landing might be fake. 10% that think fluoridation of water may cause autism. 10% that think basic vaccinations for their kids are a bad idea. 10% that believe in an old testament style god.

                  10% want Little as PM.

                  “The tears of impotent left wing range”. Well put Mr Rogue.

                  • framu …
                    21 September 2016 at 3:11 pm

                    and sub 1% wants act

                    why did you have to go and ruin PRs joke? 🙂

                  • alwyn …
                    22 September 2016 at 6:49 pm

                    “10% of the country”.
                    They are, probably, exactly the same people.
                    Is it coincidence that that is about the percentage of the vote that the Green Party get? Seems more than a coincidence to me.

            • alwyn 5.1.1.1.1.2
              21 September 2016 at 10:37 am

              I wonder when Andrew is going to release the latest UMR result?
              They will have new numbers by now.

              Do you think John should also give up on the other apparently hopeless causes he is supporting?
              He must be using up quite a lot of influence wasting time and effort on Helen Clark’s campaign. Can anyone really see that getting anywhere?
              Currently eighth place in a single winner field.

              • Leftie …
                21 September 2016 at 10:51 am

                Ask John key why he is backing Helen Clark, when he continually blames her for all of National’s failures, screwups and wrong doings?

                • alwyn …
                  21 September 2016 at 11:42 am

                  “when he continually blames ”
                  Can you produce some examples of this in the last five years or so of John Key doing this?
                  Should be pretty easy for you if your statement is true.

                  • Leftie …
                    21 September 2016 at 12:40 pm

                    Lol come on Alwyn, that’s lame, you know its true. Even recently when John key blamed the housing crisis, that he can’t admit is a crisis, on New Zealanders not leaving the country, to people getting married later in life and then finally, it’s all Helen Clark’s fault. Haven’t you said the same? You blame Labour for all of National’s ills all the time.

                  • mary_a …
                    21 September 2016 at 4:33 pm

                    @ alwyn … watch or listen to Parliament a few times, or read Hansard and you will see/hear/read enough evidence of Key blaming the past Helen Clark led government for just about everything that goes pear shaped for National. It’s a dirty little habit of his, when faced with challenging questions!

                  • Keith …
                    21 September 2016 at 8:26 pm

                    The housing crisis,two weeks ago. Pathetic lying creep blamed Clark.

              • Scott …
                21 September 2016 at 1:28 pm

                That is the rod Little has made for his own back. Every time he fails to release their polling he creates the impression that it must be bad. It was one of the more naive things he has done.

                I’d like to see their polling from the lead up to the last election. That would be interesting to sit alongside what they were saying it showed, but also to the election result itself to see how reliable it might be.

                • framu …
                  21 September 2016 at 2:27 pm

                  could be wrong here – but isnt ALL parties internal polling kept under wraps?

                  • alwyn …
                    21 September 2016 at 3:03 pm

                    “kept under wraps”
                    They were, until Little Andy came along.
                    The problem he has now, of course, is that he released a poll that he liked. He didn’t release anything about what the questions were of course.
                    He is now fair game for anyone who claims that he won’t release the results of all the polls they conduct and claims being made about “Labour vote has collapsed” as being the reason.
                    It also shows what an incredibly thin skin he must have, for a politician. They need to be armour plated.

            • Leftie 5.1.1.1.1.3
              21 September 2016 at 11:04 am

              National has a private pollster, David Farrar got a special “thank you” from John key on 2014 election night. Actually isn’t the UMR in line with other polling? Colmar Brunton have always over exaggerated National’s support and even NBR don’t believe Roy Morgan either.

              “There was eye-rolling from the left and the right, and I can see why: there were no political bombshells during the survey period (June 17 to early July) to warrant such a shift.

              It was yet another violent mood swing in the Roy Morgan universe.”

              “Surveys between election cycles remain a pretty dodgy proposition.”

              <a href="http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/roy-morgan-manager-defends-poll

              Labour et al have every right to counter National’s spin machine, Puckish Rogue.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                21 September 2016 at 11:34 am

                The difference (and its a very big difference) is that David Farrar’s polls are obviously accurate and Labours private polls aren’t

                Also John Key isn’t going around saying that companies are bogus and that hes seen polls which are different which basically says that the company itself is bogus and then leads onto people asking to see those polls

                • Leftie …
                  21 September 2016 at 11:54 am

                  Lol so in your rwnj brain John key’s close mate private pollster David Farrar is accurate, but the UMR is not? rofl, do you hear yourself Puckish Rogue? And you are being misleading too with some porkies there. Andrew Little said the polling is bogus, and he is right in that, but I never heard him say anything about the “company” itself, you appear to have issues with scrutiny.

                  Andrew Little is correct to counter National’s spin.

                  • Scott …
                    21 September 2016 at 1:35 pm

                    Surely accuracy of polling is best tested by its relationship to the election result, not who is mates with whom.

                    If Labour want to show the UMR polling is more reliable than the public polls then simple, just release the polling leading up to the 2014 election.

                    I suspect we’d discover the UMR poll is not as reliable as Little purports, or that Labour were lying to us at the time about their polling results, or maybe both.

                    Edit: I should add that the “poll of polls” was very accurate last election, despite all that the experts predicted. Like Labour they need to spend less time backslapping on social media and shaking the hands of the converted in Kirk style, and more time paying attention to the data.

                    • lprent …
                      21 September 2016 at 2:02 pm

                      Polls get more accurate as a group the closer they are to an election.

                      More people

                      1. have made up their mind
                      2. are willing to talk to pollsters about it

                      You can see this doing canvassing. The pollsters will happily tell you this is the case as well. Close to an election, they have to do less calls. to get the same numbers of the right type of people to fit the demographics they are after.

                      AND
                      3. polls are more frequent which tends to even out rogues in a poll of polls

                      But how accurate polls of polls are at election time isn’t the point.

                      How accurate are the polls at mid-term? Everything that I have seen tends to indicate that they are a whole lot less accurate.

                      However your moron level of stupidity says that they are accurate in mid-term as a group when they are doing one or two polls a month and people are less decided. Give me a break – what are you? Someone who has never bothered to think about polls?

                      By the sound of it, you are simply so ignorant that you have to be parroting someone else and doing it badly.

                    • Scott []
                      21 September 2016 at 3:20 pm

                      No. Good polling is always good polling, even mid term.

                      The closer it gets to the election the better it will be at predicting the election result, obviously.

                      So if you want to determine whether particular polls or polling methods are bias one way or the other, or are just rubbish, the way to do that is to look back at a polls close to Election Day and compare those to the election result. Then you can weight or maybe adjust according.

                      That is essentially how Pundit does their poll of polls, as do many who run like measures.

                      If you were not so busy insulting people, you might understand.

                    • lprent …
                      22 September 2016 at 1:03 pm

                      But the whole point of polls is to determine HOW voting patterns are changing over time with a reasonable degree of accuracy. ie we know that they do change and it is likely that population of who responds to polls changes over time as well.

                      What you are actually sampling is the population of people willing to respond.

                      If your SINGLE point to test accuracy is at the election. It tells you nothing about the accuracy of the polls between elections.

                      The most effective way to overcome it is to have more information than is usually reported. For instance how many people refused to respond and separately how many didn’t have an opinion when questioned.

                      You’d expect those would reduce closer to an election as people make decisions, which means in the mid-term they’d give you a better idea of the accuracy of the measured population.

                      But without that data, you have absolutely no real idea about the accuracy of the polls in mid-term, because the population who respond then are not the population who vote. Neither of these show up in the poll of polls because most of the polls don’t have them.

                      So what it shows mid-term is a sample of people who have decided who they would vote for mid-term rather than the population of voters. Since the crucial portion of the voting population make their voting decision close to the election – it makes mid-term polls essentially useless for eventual election results.

                      Which is the point that you seem to dislike thinking about.

                      If you want to be a credulous fool who doesn’t understand the statistical limitations of polls, then just say say. Then I won’t bother insulting you. Until then I’ll treat you like the idiot spouting garbage like a parrot without thinking.

                    • Scott []
                      22 September 2016 at 3:13 pm

                      That is all just stating the obvious.

                      I think in a round about way we are saying similar things. Releasing one poll in isolation means nothing.

                      But Labour chose to release just one poll.

                      Because of that it is impossible to make an assessment of trends as you would like (and I agree that and the reaction to particular events is the only real worth of mid term polling), or any assessment of inherent bias as I would like (I agree might also be possible with a wide data set even if it doesn’t include a general election period).

                      But we have often heard from Labour the chant that their internal polling is looking okay compared to public polls. I think they are full of BS. If they want to dispel that and convince us the public polls are wrong, they are going to have to release a whole lot more, and in particular I’d want to see those from around election time when the chest thumping was loudest.

                    • lprent …
                      27 September 2016 at 11:31 pm

                      It’d be more interesting to see National’s internal polling data. From what I hear, they do it much more frequently.

                      It’d be interesting to look at the timeline between shifts in their polling data and when they announce some of the half-arsed ‘policy changes’ they have been doing recently. Especially the policies that they have announced as having ‘new’ funding multiple times.

                      Nick Smith on housing and conservation and Paula Bennett at whatever WINZ is called now on social housing and welfare are particularly noticeable.

                      I’m wondering if there is a correlation between those weird deja-vu moments and their internal polling getting bad numbers. If so, then they must be getting a lot more frequent.

                  • Puckish Rogue …
                    21 September 2016 at 2:18 pm

                    He’s Keys private pollster not because he’s his friend but because he’s accurate, thats a very big distinction

                    Also the poll the Andrew Little was referring to is well out of step with every other poll so to believe the poll is “right” you have to accept that every other poll run by every other polling company is “wrong”

                    According David Farrar: “At the last election in September 2015 this same poll had Labour at 25.2%. They got 25.1%. They were very accurate for Labour.” thats who ran the poll Little was disparaging

                    “In fact it was National they got a bit wrong with a poll of 45.1% vs an actual election result of 47.0%”

                    The other telling point is that National have not polled 40% since 2006

                    But by all means cling to the illusion if you like

                    • framu …
                      21 September 2016 at 2:28 pm

                      ” but because he’s accurate”

                      im sure theres a host of other reasons

                      some were even in a book once

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      21 September 2016 at 2:40 pm

                      There probably are but his polling is accurate and thats the most important thing when considering polling)

                    • Scott …
                      21 September 2016 at 3:37 pm

                      I like to keep an eye on the poll of polls that Pundit runs. They seem to approach it in a logical manner, but their method seems less reactive to sudden change (as it takes a few polls with the same change to pull their figures through).

                      They currently have:
                      Nat 48.0%
                      Lab 29.2
                      Grn 12.0
                      NZF 6.6
                      MP 2.3
                      Act 0.6
                      Con 0.3
                      UF 0.0

                    • Macro …
                      22 September 2016 at 1:31 pm

                      Scott, the pundit poll of polls hasn’t been updated since the beginning of the year!

                    • Scott []
                      22 September 2016 at 3:36 pm

                      You’re quite right. My apologies. I misread the date at the bottom of the subscript.

                  • Chuck …
                    21 September 2016 at 3:47 pm

                    Leftie its lucky that Colmar Brunton is not the kind of company to lawyer up…other wise Andrew Little would be having to defend 2 defamation cases come 2017.

                    Calling Colmar Brunton bogus was very stupid by Little. Watch for any time a poll is not kind to Labour, Little will be under pressure to continue releasing his own internal polls to counter…along with the methodology used (which will be very interesting to say the least!).

                    As Labour is broke…no doubt they are using the “budget poll option” with UMR.

        • Anno1701 5.1.1.2
          21 September 2016 at 12:20 pm

          “I easily see another term for John Key”

          when your tucked away in bed at night, post hot cocoa with your hottie and your teddy im sure thats exactly what flashes in front of your eyes !

          • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1.2.1
            21 September 2016 at 2:22 pm

            I hope you remember this post after the next election because theres so many people on here I’ll want to say “I told you so” to that I won’t be able to remember them all

            • Anno1701 5.1.1.2.1.1
              21 September 2016 at 3:13 pm

              “I hope you remember this post after the next election ”

              honesty mate i really do have much more important things to be doing….

              • Puckish Rogue …
                21 September 2016 at 3:27 pm

                Ah well when you see me posting after the election you’ll know you’re one of the people I’m referring to 🙂

        • adam 5.1.1.3
          21 September 2016 at 1:33 pm

          Oh look it’s the same desperate arguments repeated by PR over and over…

          A broken record of desperation

      • Bearded Git 5.1.2
        21 September 2016 at 10:17 am

        My smoothed Roy Morgan:

        Lab/Gr/NZF 49.8
        Nats 46.0
        Nats/ACT/MP 48.3

        A smart election campaign with good policies from the Left that promote a little more equality and fairness in NZ and Key will be spending much more time at home in Hawaii.

        …and no it is not all about the economy.

        • Michelle 5.1.2.1
          21 September 2016 at 10:22 am

          Agree with Bearded git

        • Puckish Rogue 5.1.2.2
          21 September 2016 at 10:45 am

          Ok so on the latest Roy Morgan poll National are on 46% but do you remember this:

          https://thestandard.org.nz/rm-labour-jumps-6-labgr-coalition-leads/#comment-1046338

          Marvellous Bearded Git 2.4

          18 July 2015 at 12:18 am

          @maui

          Nats have dropped 11% in 8 weeks. At this rate they will be in single figures by Xmas.

          also

          https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-22062016/#comment-1192313

          Bearded Git 11.1

          22 June 2016 at 10:52 am

          Nats 43% and falling in that last Roy Morgan-they are gone Jack.

          • Bearded Git 5.1.2.2.1
            21 September 2016 at 12:17 pm

            @PR…well remembered…that volatility is why I’m doing the smooted numbers now for Roy Morgan. The fact remains that if the Nats cannot get more than 46% in October 2017 they are gone. I think they will slip to 41-42% partly because Winston will play the “immigration too high” card.

            I note RNZ just announced record net annual immigration figures 10 minutes ago-69,100.

            • Puckish Rogue 5.1.2.2.1.1
              21 September 2016 at 12:34 pm

              I get why you’ve lumped in WinstonFirst with Lab/Green but its a mistake to count his votes as if its going to happen

              There are as many reasons for him to go with National as there are for him go with Lab/Green

              • Leftie …
                22 September 2016 at 9:09 pm

                No there’s not Puckish Rogue, you should pay more attention to what Winston is saying and how he is saying it. Doubt very much he will ever support John key and/or most of the current line up in the Nats.

        • Chuck 5.1.2.3
          21 September 2016 at 11:14 am

          “A smart election campaign with good policies from the Left that promote a little more equality and fairness in NZ and Key will be spending much more time at home in Hawaii.”

          That’s the oppositions problem in a nutshell…”A smart election campaign with good policies”

          Andrew Little and Labour will need to convince the voters they are able to deliver on there policies and run a Government that includes the Greens (and lets not forget they need to have Winston on side to have any chance).

          When the leader debates come up, Andrew Little will be way out of his depth…angry Andy will come to the fore.

          “…and no it is not all about the economy.”

          True, however to change a Government a economy humming along makes it so much more difficult to achieve…and our current opposition is well just crap.

          • Puckish Rogue 5.1.2.3.1
            21 September 2016 at 11:25 am

            +1 Chuck (because apparently that’s a thing)

          • Leftie 5.1.2.3.2
            21 September 2016 at 11:41 am

            For whom is the “economy humming along” for Chuck?

            Yet National is completely reliant on Act, Peter Dunne and the Maori party for its survival. I think the voters pretty much know now that the National government are liars and deceivers that have monumentally failed this country and can only deliver to it’s rich mates, foreign interests and speculators.

            • Stuart Munro 5.1.2.3.2.1
              21 September 2016 at 12:20 pm

              Well said mate – wouldn’t wish a pack of hosers like Key et al on my worst enemies, much less our own people. Stupid, backward, and corrupt.

            • Chuck 5.1.2.3.2.2
              21 September 2016 at 4:06 pm

              Ok then Leftie…it what you say is true then National will be falling like a rock in the polls.

              “Was National “insignificant, pathetic” while it was in opposition for 9 years Chuck?”

              Go and do a little research (when Labour were in Government last, leading up to the 2008 election)…

              “National Opposition at 55% – the current Labour Government 32% – with the Prime Minister Helen Clarks support having slumped to 29% and the National Party Leader now at 44%. Under the New Zealand Mixed Member Proportional (MMP) system, this poll result would indicate that National could govern alone with 69 seats leaving Labour on 40 within the 123 seat House.”

              http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0802/S00295/latest-nz-poll-results-a-wake-up-call.htm

              Labour is a shadow of its former self.

              • Leftie …
                22 September 2016 at 8:47 pm

                National did fall like a rock during their 9 years in opposition. I guess National felt a shadow of its former self when they were at 20.93% in the 2002 GENERAL ELECTION. Wait for the results of the 2017 election Chuck. National had its turn and it failed badly.

      • Leftie 5.1.3
        21 September 2016 at 11:28 am

        Was National “insignificant, pathetic” while it was in opposition for 9 years Chuck?

    • marty mars 5.2
      21 September 2016 at 10:06 am

      + 1 mary – true words indeed.

    • Leftie 5.3
      21 September 2016 at 10:55 am

      And please add No Northland seat to your list, +1 Mary_A.

    • John 5.4
      21 September 2016 at 9:30 pm

      Bet you he gets a knighthood when he does go. What bright future

      • alwyn 5.4.1
        22 September 2016 at 6:58 pm

        Order of New Zealand here.
        Knight of the Garter from The Queen.
        That’s assuming the Queen makes it to 100.
        With the dreadful performance of the Opposition here it will be a long time before Key will retire.

  6. Richard Rawshark 6
    21 September 2016 at 9:16 am

    Think he played it right for someone who supports the TPP his government.

    By stating the US may find it’s self isolated and actually worse off is probably true for oversea’s markets. It’s a clever ploy.

    Though the US has a huge internal market it I think is not as susceptible to international trade swings as John portrays.

    But he did the right speech. Love him or hate him, when he has an agenda he certainly goes all out to achieve it.

    If he put his energy into good he actually would achieve something great, such a shame, what a waste.

  7. gsays 7
    21 September 2016 at 9:24 am

    Warning! Cheap shot ahead.

    I have noticed in recent photos of dear leader an orange tinge to his hair.
    Trying to appear presidential perhaps?

  8. peterh 8
    21 September 2016 at 10:07 am

    And one of the generals said What has NZ got to offer except a few lamb chops, and that’s about where he fits

  9. reason 9
    21 September 2016 at 11:02 am

    John Key in all probability owes the u.s.a tax payers millions & Millions of dollars ….. stemming back to when he got lucky and was able to swap his bankrupt worthless merrill lynch shares for all of those Bank of America ones he has ………. ” Merrill Lynch was sold to Bank of America for 0.8595 shares of Bank of America common stock for each Merrill Lynch common share” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrill_Lynch#Sale_to_Bank_of_America

    The official ( bullshit ) story is that John Key was horrified at how reckless Merrill had become in the 2000’s after he had stopped working for them ….

    But the truth would be shown by how much he divested himself from them and how many of his Merrill shares he got rid of during this time ……

    I doubt he got rid of many as their share price climbed from a low of around $30 in 2001 to almost $100 by 2007 …………. I bet Key kept all his Merrill shares and was feeling very rich and smart ………………

    Then when the GFC hit and Merrill was at the center of it…..the shares became worth Zero as Merrill were going bankrupt ……………… fast.

    Until The Bank of America saved their and Keys arse with the forced share swap/purchase…………

    I think The u.s.a should seize any property keY owns and return the funds to the american tax payer.

    I imagine out of all NZ prime ministers none has received so much money from and hurt the u.s.a citizens as much as key ………..

    Of course I may be wrong and maybe he paid for all of his bank of america shares with his own money …………………

    • Puckish Rogue 9.1
      21 September 2016 at 11:10 am

      I think you should email this to Andrew Little and tell him to chase it up in parliament, it sounds like a game changer to me 🙂

      • reason 9.1.1
        21 September 2016 at 11:44 am

        Nah Puck my little disco monkey ………….. A reporter or two asking him questions would do for me……

        Especially when he criticizes NZ workers with his lazy smears

        What I would like Andrew little to do in Parliament is dare Key to drink a glass of his relatively 100 % pure river water ….. that would be funny and good.

        I heard you were up for the John Key river water challenge Puck ….

        is it true ?

        • Puckish Rogue 9.1.1.1
          21 September 2016 at 11:57 am

          Absolutely, meet me at the Rangitata Bridge at 7pm tonight and we’ll do this thing

          • reason 9.1.1.1.1
            21 September 2016 at 12:12 pm

            Why do you want to go down there to drink some Hawkes bay/wairararap/taranaki/waikatao water Puck ?…..

            Its better we tour you around the country so you can shit and be sick where you are drinking …………..

            You just have to bring your white disco pants ……

            John keys magical water tours …………….. starring Puck

            • Leftie 9.1.1.1.1.1
              21 September 2016 at 12:17 pm

              rofl please, please, please record this event for prosperity

            • Puckish Rogue 9.1.1.1.1.2
              21 September 2016 at 12:32 pm

              Well we can talk expenses later of course but if you’re paying I’m keen

              • reason …
                21 September 2016 at 8:42 pm

                Good on you puckish for backing you intestinal fortitude and committing to the John Key magical water challenge ….. I was coming to the conclusion that our trolls here were pretenders who run away from the real results of this Govt …. but not you 🙂

                I know we here at the Standard could have a quick wip around to fund your magic water tour ….. I can’t see it costing much as I doubt you’ll get past the first river in your test …… and Hospital visits are still free ……

                I’d suggest starting with the Selwyn river as it seems very full of the wealth cowboy john has gifted to NZ http://www.stuff.co.n/environment/84116972/no-longer-swimmable-a-community-mourns-its-lost-river

                But I do admire you being prepared to put your guts on the line for your team unlike BM , Alwyn and all those other non-starters ……

                Perhaps you have more faith than them which will allow you to succeed ….. perhaps you have a sphincter stronger than chineese steel ….who knows?

                And even if you do spay diarrhea like a demented cow and fill your disco pants with it …………. we can wash you in the river and not have to worry about all the shit you are putting in the water.

                If on the other hand you succed and prove that faith in JK protects one from from sewage water you will be a Nact Hero ………..

                John Key could reward you with those Bank of America Shares the American tax payers gave him when Merrill Lynch went bankrupt and got bailed out ……….

                Our Register of Pecuniary Interests of Members of Parliament show that he got them via the u.s.a bailout and not his own money ……….

                watch the magic trick as keys paper wealth changes from worthless bankrupt Merrill share ………. into Bank of America ones.

                2008: 2 Interests (such as shares and bonds)in companies and business entities
                Little Nell – property investment
                MerrillLynch – investment banking
                JacksonMining – gold mining ……………………

                And after then the bailout ………….

                2009: 2 Interests (such as shares and bonds) in companies and business entities
                Little Nell – property investment
                Bank of America – banking
                Jackson Mining – gold mining

                Maybe Obama laughs about it when they are playing golf ….. “ You owe us one johnyy just remember that ha ha ha “ ..

                Even more funny is that american Investors sued the bank of America for buying the toxic mess that was Merrill Lynch …….and won almost 2.5 Billion dollars in one of the first law suits stemming from the GFC ……….” Bank of America Settles Suit Over Merrill for $2.43 Billion”
                http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/bank-of-america-to-pay-2-43-billion-to-settle-class-action-over-merrill-deal/?_r=0

                “Bank of America will have paid well over $65 billion to resolve mortgage issues with consumers, investors and government agencies tied to its purchase of Countrywide in July 2008 and Merrill six months later.” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/21/bofasettlement_n_5697470.html

                All the information is available on the web and it all adds up to a fascinating read …….It’s thanks to Alwyn I even went looking about Merrills history and got to learn so much.

                “the federal government’s Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP), initially receiving $25 billion and then another $20 billion in assistance to help it absorb Merrill, which reported a loss of more than $15 billion in the fourth quarter of 2008”.

                I happen to think its relevant when you have a lucky rip off artist like key who has a bar full of booze in his office and has appeared pissed in Parliament after boozy lunches slagging off New Zealand workers …… http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/09/the-final-days-of-merrill-lynch/307621/

                Its quite obvious the reason he was singled out for special mention in the panama papers is he’s so involved in building and extending tax havens and their dirty money networks ….. at a time when the world is trying to tackle and stop this economic Apartheid ………….. http://www.nickyhager.info/money-trail-leads-home-to-new-zealand/

                “”The PM asked me to contact you to arrange a meeting at your convenience with a small group of industry leaders who are keen to engage to explain how the regime works and the benefits to NZ of an industry which has been painstakingly built up over the last 25 years or so.” http://www.interest.co.nz/news/81311/documents-show-john-keys-personal-lawyer-successfully-lobbied-him-and-revenue-minister

                https://thestandard.org.nz/key-changed-the-law-to-turn-nz-into-a-tax-haven

                https://www.theguardian.com/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/feb/02/ireland-merrill-lynch-research-note-irish-banks

    • Leftie 9.2
      21 September 2016 at 11:21 am

      Derivative traders like John key never risk their own money, they use other peoples instead. John key is no friend of NZ either, no prime minister has hurt NZ like he is doing.

      “Corrupt – John Key Profit From NZ Foreign Debt? Conflict of interest? (No Media Coverage)”

      <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGO3oeXdE-g

      “IS JOHN KEY “INSIDE TRADING” WITH NEW ZEALAND’S DEBT?”

      <a href="https://envirowatchrangitikei.wordpress.com/2016/05/07/is-john-key-inside-trading-with-new-zealands-debt/

      • Richard Rawshark 9.2.1
        21 September 2016 at 11:52 am

        If he was Leftie it looks like there is not a lot we can do.

        Many have tried none have succeeded.

        We may need the services of.., The A Team.

  10. Richard Rawshark 10
    21 September 2016 at 12:12 pm

    I don’t really hate John anymore.., it’s more a sadness that he could have done so much, but chose to ignore some things even his ilk, political peers have recognized.

    Sadness that we all thought (as a nation not personally) he would do great for the country.

    That being, water contamination from over dairy and irrigation intensification, and not looking to the future of energy sources and being ahead of the game. He could really have taken the country somewhere but got tied in with the wrong crowd.

    He reminds me of the hope people had for Obama, that fell on it’s arse with the same old same old carrying on.

    • Leftie 10.1
      21 September 2016 at 12:23 pm

      John key is a liar, people got taken in by his lies and ignored the red flags. John key never had any intention to do anything else other than what he has done.

  11. ianmac 11
    21 September 2016 at 12:32 pm

    Obama has often said that his support of TPP was to forestall China. Key must be seen to support USA so that should TPP fail it won’t seem to be on his head.
    For we NZers? Very poor outcome if it succeeds.

  12. save nz 12
    21 September 2016 at 1:55 pm

    Like Pavlovs dogs, when NZ politicians hear the word ‘trade’ they dribble uncontrollably and it does not matter what the other 6500 pages say.

    The scary thing is that NZ has become more of an international neoliberal shrill than the US.

  13. Freeloader 13
    21 September 2016 at 1:59 pm

    If Trump doesn’t want it it’s a dead duck.

  14. Chooky 14
    21 September 2016 at 5:05 pm

    John Key in Britain also advised against Brexit…as not being in NZ’s interests..but they voted for it anyway

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/77349461/John-Key-on-Brexit-UK-remaining-in-European-Union-is-in-NZs-best-interests

    In Europe:

    ‘Thousands march against TTIP, CETA trade deals in Brussels (PHOTOS, VIDEOS)’

    https://www.rt.com/news/360067-ttip-ceta-brussels-protest/

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