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Trumputin

Written By: - Date published: 8:10 am, July 17th, 2018 - 206 comments
Categories: Deep stuff, democracy under attack, Donald Trump, International, Politics, Russia, Spying, us politics, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

Clearly there is nothing to see here. Russia did not interfere in the late US election.  All that fake news was just random posts by unconnected individuals, not evidence of sinister covert action by one of America’s enemies to undermine its democratic system.

And what does Robert Mueller know?  His latest indictment charging 12 Russian military officers effectively states that the US thinks it can prove beyond reasonable doubt that there was illegitimate Russian interference in the last election.  But what does he know?

The background to the indictment is in this article from the New York Times which includes this passage:

The special counsel investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election issued an indictment of 12 Russian intelligence officers on Friday in the hacking of the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton presidential campaign. The indictment came only three days before President Trump was planning to meet with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia in Helsinki, Finland.

The 29-page indictment is the most detailed accusation by the American government to date of the Russian government’s interference in the 2016 election, and it includes a litany of brazen Russian subterfuge operations meant to foment chaos in the months before Election Day.

From phishing attacks to gain access to Democratic operatives, to money laundering, to attempts to break into state elections boards, the indictment details a vigorous and complex effort by Russia’s top military intelligence service to sabotage the campaign of Mr. Trump’s Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton.

The timing of the indictment, by Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel, added a jolt of tension to the already freighted atmosphere surrounding Mr. Trump’s meeting with Mr. Putin. It is all but certain to feed into the conspiratorial views held by the president and some of his allies that Mr. Mueller’s prosecutors are determined to undermine Mr. Trump’s designs for a rapprochement with Russia.

Trump does not believe a word of it.  And Putin was not aware that the indictment had even been laid.  As if.

And a question about the issue that has kept the world on tenterhooks, is there a pee tape, was answered by Putin with quite possibly.

Lets leave the last word to the POTUS from two years ago.

206 comments on “Trumputin”

  1. JohnSelway 1

    Trump all but committed treason openly and on camera. Even Foxnews is aghast.

    • Andre 1.1

      That’s treason in the commonly accepted meaning of the word. In the US legal sense, committing treason effectively requires the US to be in a declared war against the adversary the traitor is helping.

      • JohnSelway 1.1.1

        Either way – it’ll be hard pressed by anyone but the most ardent trump supporter (which is unfortunately a large segment of the US population) to see this as anything but the President acquiescing to a foreign power over his own administration

        • Andre 1.1.1.1

          Yep. He may as well have just come right out and said. “Yes it’s true, I really am Putin’s pussy. Whaddaya gonna do about it, bitches?” And Putin may as well have followed up with “What he said”.

        • Gosman 1.1.1.2

          More over his own Government not his own Administration. The investigation in to Russia may been overseen by the Administration but it is more a product of the bureaucracy.

      • cleangreen 1.1.2

        Correct 100% Andre,

        The motives;

        This is a conpired phase two of another ‘reds under the bed’ McCarthyism to start a war witrh Russia by those who want to break up Russias massive assets and resources for their own financial gain.

        • Tricledrown 1.1.2.1

          Clean green your conspiracy theory has no basis no one is going to start an unwinnable war with Russia you idiot.
          Crimea a river Ukraine not even a push back. Georgia no push back their either
          Syria no push back.
          You are out of touch or maybe just touched.

    • SPC 1.2

      Trump’s motive is obvious.

      He wants all the credit for his win, will reject others claiming the Russians helped him (Clinton helped him more by not campaigning in the rust belt states) as this reduces his mandate and authority to govern.

      And he might suspect that those claiming Russia was involved are doing so as part of a campaign against his presdency, to weaken his personal mandate and to control his presidency.

    • xanthe 1.3

      So the inquisition convenes . Its bullshit . I am so dissapointed in you all ! What sorry herd of sheep you are

    • Liberal Realist 1.4

      Hyperbole.

      Trump at the very least is attempting to repair relations between two nuclear superpowers who’s relationship has been seriously damaged by the Democrat witch hunt.

      The whole Russian collusion narrative is false.

      See statement from congressman Louie Gohmert – FBI Agent Strzok was told by intelligence community inspector general that Clinton’s (illegal) email server was breached by a non Russian foreign entity.

      I loath to link Fox, but here you go:
      http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/07/12/gohmert-reacts-peter-strzok-hearing-and-clinton-email-server-scandal

      • Ed 1.4.1

        Luke Harding, author of Collusion, was shown up to be a liar.

      • cleangreen 1.4.2

        Agreed Liberal Realist, 100%

        President Trump has passed the test of being a effective statesan because he has been to 23 Countries since becomming president and he has calmed many previous ‘Hot spots” so we give him an ‘A’ so the naysayers need to get over their hangup and accept him now.

        Too many are believing the rubbish that George Soros ‘media propaganda’ he puts out and hides behind.

  2. KJT 2

    Why would the Russians bother to go to all that effort to “undermine US Democracy”.

    When they can just sit back, and watch the USA do it to themselves!

    • cleangreen 2.1

      KIT;

      100% correctly said as’ – best view of the day.

    • Siobhan 2.2

      Exactly.

      The Democrats and their believers need to accept they ran an unlikable candidate with a crappy track record with a bunch of Party rhetoric that just doesn’t wash.
      Not to mention an outrageous and corrupt campaign against a likable Democratic candidate who had the power to win over ‘soft’ Republicans.
      Which is funny given that winning the ‘soft’ vote is what ‘Leftish’ Liberal Parties are all about these days. Anyway. It basically earned them a ‘draw’ in the election with a blustering moron.

      The Democrats lost the Presidency, The House and the Senate.
      And as awesomely cunning as Putin’s fb posts and emojis might have been, and as brilliant as ‘The Russians’ are with Psy Ops and mind control over a whole Nation, the reality is they are just not that cunning.

    • Bill 2.3

      Way I see it is that some “intelligence” services produced screeds of toilet paper from a big ol’ conjecture machine and media took it as a signal to start shitting. And as we all know, there’s no shit without…nah, mixed metaphor. Anyway…

      this Guardian headline had me laughing (I think I was meant to be quietly outraged?)

      Trump shows he trusts an ex-KGB agent more than US intelligence

      Well, no shit! – given the glorious track record of lies, deceit, bullshit and fantasy from the US intelligence community….

      Also agreeing with comments made by Brutus Iscariot elsewhere in this thread.

      Now about that bottle of toxin found in the UK. Anyone want to lay money on it being a perfume bottle? Thrown away by….go on, guess who 😉

      edit – there was an Israeli report pointing out the sheer number of dodgy fb accounts held by a guy in Greece. (No action taken by US Admin) I downloaded it but have since lost it due to this damned computer crashing and burning. But I’m sure anyone interested can find it again.

      • JohnSelway 2.3.1

        Yeah, because Russia and the KGB have such a great track record of honestly and respectively.

        USA bad =\= Russia good

        • adam 2.3.1.1

          Blindly pro american no matter what ah John Selway. If your not for us, you’re against us. Grass is green so pick the winning side.

          What other exclusionary, no room to move – comments can I come up with I wonder….

          • JohnSelway 2.3.1.1.1

            I have never stated anything that would make me pro-American.

            Not trusting Russia or Putin =\= pro-American

            • adam 2.3.1.1.1.1

              Sheesh, miss the point why don’t you. I said you made an exclusionary comment, and that they are simple to make. How about you don’t, and give people room to move in their comments, rather than have to respond to your attempts to shut down debate by making exclusionary comments.

              “USA bad =\= Russia good”

              Too soon??!?

              • JohnSelway

                I’m shutting down debate now? Goodness me dear – you are precious.

                • adam

                  Go have a cup of tea, it might help.

                  • JohnSelway

                    I’d still like you to point out how I have been “blindly pro-American”

                    (Hint – not trusting the KGB or Putin isn’t pro-American any more than disliking rugby league makes me blindly pro-sycronised swimming)

                    • adam

                      For the love of pineapple lumps.

                      It was hydroboil to make a point, not to say you were blindly pro american. Did I have to put /sarc in front – did you miss it was way over the top?

                      I did think “Grass is green so pick the winning side.” was the dead give away.

        • Bill 2.3.1.2

          Making an observation around the trustworthiness of US intelligence agencies isn’t an observation about the trustworthiness of Russian intelligence agencies.

          The Guardian is being utterly ridiculous in suggesting that only a loon or some-such would believe the leader of the Russian Federation over the US intelligence services because (this is the implication contained in the headline) the US intelligence services are impeccable/trustworthy/paragons of virtue and higher morality.

          Now. I don’t get subjected to whatever propaganda crap the Russian Federation drowns people in. I get subjected to the propaganda crap that western populations are meant to drown in. So that’s what I comment on, and that’s what provides much of the basis for any informed or mis-informed opinions or thoughts or bias I may have 😉

          • Ed 2.3.1.2.1

            The Guardian has become a virulent supporter of neocon foreign policy.
            The liberal left now wants war.

    • JohnSelway 2.4

      It’s not just undermining democracy – it’s about undermining the USA. Who benefits from Trump breaking up with NATO and distancing the US from Europe?

      Russia must be tickled shitless with trumps idiocy

      • McFlock 2.4.1

        Not to mention also weakening China and maybe even Canada through trade wars.

        Even the shit the trumpists have confessed to must count as one of the most cost-effective intelligence operations in history.

      • Morrissey 2.4.2

        NATO is like ICE. It should be disbanded.

        • Stuart Munro 2.4.2.1

          Why – you want the tanks rolling west again? Most Nato members don’t – and why would they? The soviet empire was ruthless and dysfunctional, and Putin’s ‘last bullet’ speeches show he hasn’t learned a thing.

          • Ed 2.4.2.1.1

            Are you insane?

            • Bewildered 2.4.2.1.1.1

              Takes one to know one as saying goes

            • Stuart Munro 2.4.2.1.1.2

              Have you no argument whatsoever Ed, that you must fall back on ad hom?

            • Brutus Iscariot 2.4.2.1.1.3

              Reds under the bed right?

              • Stuart Munro

                If the long list of those done to death by Putin, including the likes of Politkovskaya and Nemtsov, isn’t reason to be cautious of him I’m not sure what is.

          • Liberal Realist 2.4.2.1.2

            Stuck in the past there Stuart? There is no more ‘Soviet empire’, hasn’t been since 1991.

            NATO became redundant when the Warsaw Pact disbanded and the Soviet Union broke up.

            The Russian Federation isn’t a threat to Europe, or anyone for that matter. They want to trade with Europe, not invade.

            • Stuart Munro 2.4.2.1.2.1

              If only that were true.

              Chechenya would say different. So would Georgia and Ukraine.

              Putin is an invading imperialist without even the wretched figleaf of pretending to Marxist values.

              • KJT

                You mean those places on Russia’s border, where the US are helping to install fascist dictatorships, as buffer States.

                • Stuart Munro

                  Chechenya at least was nothing to do with the US – you need a better generalization if you mean to do more than flaunt your prejudice.

                  • KJT

                    You think.

                    • Stuart Munro

                      Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

                      The US was busy with Bush’s invasions at the time. Otherwise they’d have had quite a lot to say about the Russians killing half the population of a country.

                    • Ed

                      Like the way they massacred so much of Korea, Iraq and Vietnam’s population?

                    • Stuart Munro

                      @ Ed

                      “Like the way they massacred so much of Korea, Iraq and Vietnam’s population?”

                      Not relevant to Chechenya – but I appreciate your flailing – it shows you want to win the argument without actually being bothered learning the facts of each situation.

                      The Korean war is unusual in that the US didn’t start it. The presumption was that, given a fait accompli, the US would not intervene. The odd combination of the resistance of the Daegu pocket and Russia absenting itself from the UN reversed the outcome of the till then largely successful invasion. Students of history note that North Korea’s lack of naval presence in the China sea meant their forces could not be resupplied or reinforced so that prolonging of the conflict, as with Germany in Russia, was against their interests.

                      Iraq is unquestionably America’s fault. If someone else was massacring civilians on that scale the US would certainly condemn it. Unless they were a client. They have condemned Assad for example: US denounces failure to implement ceasefire in Eastern Ghouta during UN Security Council meeting. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/02/condemns-syria-contempt-ghouta-attack-continues-180228184933080.html

                      It’s fair to say that the US did condemn the Vietnam war – it got to the point of causing civil unrest in the US, which Iraq sadly never did.

                      None of which excuse Putin’s murder of half the Chechen population for a moment of course.

                    • Ed

                      You need to volunteer for the war you so keenly want with Russia.
                      Please don’t force others to fight or die on your behalf.

                    • Stuart Munro

                      @ Ed

                      There’s obviously too much work to be done here in NZ rooting out fifth columnists like yourself. The last time I left this place to it’s own devices Roger Douglas stole everything that wasn’t nailed down.

                      But don’t let me stop you from signing up to fight for your totalitarian dictator of choice.

                      You pitiful dupe.

                    • KJT

                      I have no more time for Putin, than i have for Trump.

                      But, Russia has plenty of historical reasons to fear invasion from the West.

                      Plenty of evidence of American meddling on Russia’s borders.

                      And the USA will cheerfully support the most ruthless Dictatorships, including installing them initially, so long as they support US commerce, the petro dollar and annoy Russia. There is a long list.

                      As for complaining about murdering half the population. The USA and their client States are pretty effective at that themselves. Yemen and Gaza being just two recent examples.

                  • One Two

                    “Flaunting prejudice” you say, Stuart…

                    Your glasshouse is extra large…

                    • Stuart Munro

                      You’re a fine one to talk.

                      My views are based on facts.

                      Yours stand on a firm foundation of whimsy.

              • Tricledrown

                Pootin. Just another imperialist Dictator
                Trump a treasonous Dick Traitor!

              • D'Esterre

                Stuart Munro: “Chechenya would say different. So would Georgia and Ukraine.

                Putin is an invading imperialist without even the wretched figleaf of pretending to Marxist values.”

                You’ve attempted to make this assertion before; it is wrong and you’ve been called out on it, with an explanation as to why it’s wrong. It’s still wrong: repeating it doesn’t make it right.

                If you believe that Putin is the problem in Russia, you have absolutely no idea at all about what’s going on in politics there.

                • Stuart Munro

                  Bold assertions D’Esterre, but they are mere prejudices loitering without means of support.

                  Substantiate your claim or flaunt your ignorance elsewhere.

          • D'Esterre 2.4.2.1.3

            Stuart Munro: “you want the tanks rolling west again?”

            Say what? The previous time would’ve been when?

            Now that the Warsaw Pact no longer exists, there is no point to NATO. I remind you, moreover,that the Warsaw Pact was established in the mid-1950s,following the founding of NATO in the late 1940s.

            The trajectory of invasion has over the centuries come from Europe to Russia, not the other way about. Russian people know this very well; the Warsaw Pact was a defensive move in response to NATO.

            While he was on the campaign trail, Trump questioned the continued existence of NATO. Once elected, he wished to disestablish it. However, it appears the Washington Establishment wouldn’t let him – more’s the pity – so instead he is now demanding that NATO members pay their fair share of defence.

            • Stuart Munro 2.4.2.1.3.1

              “The previous time would’ve been when?”

              Since you have not been paying attention, Russian tanks were certainly rolling in 2014. That was when the Russian BUK shot down MH17. BUKs accompany Russian tank units to protect them from ground attacking aircraft. “Separatists” never possess either tanks or Buks – they cannot afford them, nor do they have the industrial capacity to make them. They were supplied, along with fully trained crews by Russia, as part of its de facto invasion of the Ukraine.

        • cleangreen 2.4.2.2

          Morrissey 2.4.2
          NATO is run by Jens Stoltenberg the son of a suspected NAZi as the family came from East Prussia (Bradenberg) in North Germany and his father was involved in Norway sending jews to the German gas chambers during WW2.

          Then later his son was born there in 1959 and was Prime Minister before taking over NATO as General Secretary so he obviously got a big push from the secret underground Nazi movement we can see..

          How could a German be easily running Norway?

          • joe90 2.4.2.2.1

            his father was involved in Norway sending jews to the German gas chambers during WW2.

            You really are a lying piece of shit.

            *spit*

            Thorvald Stoltenberg (8 July 1931 – 13 July 2018) was a Norwegian politician. His ancestors stemmed from Tønsberg. He served as Minister of Defence (1979–81) and Minister of Foreign Affairs (1987–1989 and 1990–1993) in two Labour governments.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorvald_Stoltenberg

          • Tricledrown 2.4.2.2.2

            Clean green you haven’t got any proof
            Besides he was only 9 yrs old when war broke out.
            Maybe you have the wrong person

  3. Brutus Iscariot 3

    Peace and de-escalation of tensions between nuclear powers, is generally something that most reasonable people (and certainly, historically the left) should hail.

    Personal animus towards Trump shouldn’t outweigh the fact that he’s pulling the bandaid off some pretty ugly stuff in the international area – in this case the morally and intellectually bankrupt consensus aggressive US foreign policy, of previous bipartisan consensus.

    If Putin wanted Trump to win, it’s not because he likes him, it’s rational self interest to prefer that another country be led by someone who isn’t determined to grind your (and every other) country’s face in the dirt.

    • Infused 3.1

      Pretty much this. And nk. Everyone’s shut up about that now haven’t they.

      Hillary’s emails were pushed using a pretty common phishing attempt by a hacking group.

      End of the day dosent matter what trump does he will be what on by all.

    • mickysavage 3.2

      Trump is no pacifist despite what he has said recently.

      • Brutus Iscariot 3.2.1

        No, but he’s not ideological in the sense that the American Exceptionalists are. For a US President to admit that his own country has undertaken “foolish actions”, i find monumentally refreshing.

        Because Trump is a businessman, i think it actually gives him some sort of clarity on the fact that the other side will often have reasonable interests. On the other hand, there’s no give and take with those who believe it’s America’s duty to dominate the world (ideologically, financially, or militarily).

        • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1

          Business people are, IMO, inherently not nationalistic as being so would decrease their profits. But they will use nationalistic and even localistic language to get locals to support them.

          This is known as lying.

    • Ed 3.3

      Well said.

  4. marty mars 4

    T.rump has just painted a big bullseye on his back and it won’t be the pinkos, lefties, dems or progressives firing it imo.

    He is playing the game the way he did business – study that and the babyman is transparent.

  5. Brutus Iscariot 5

    We’ve come full circle – the New Zealand left has gone full neocon. Dick Cheney would be proud.

    • adam 5.1

      What a stupid comment. Really just dumb from that commentator. The ad hominion is used, becasue there is no way to rationally argue with a comment that stupid.

    • Ed 5.2

      Sadly the Blairite disease has infected our left wing body politic .
      Iraq didn’t teach these armchair warriors any lessons.

  6. Anne 6

    When Putin fronts up to Trump and “strongly” denies he had anything to do with the Russian hacking of the US Dems he would have come across as totally genuine. That’s because it probably was genuine. Neither he nor his political colleagues would have been in the loop precisely so they could plead plausible deniability. The culprits would have been well down the ladder of seniority and would have known what was expected of them without having to be told.

    I’m not defending the fruitcake in the White House. Putin outclasses Trump by a country mile in the IQ stakes. If he told Trump the world was flat Trump would believe him.

    • xanthe 6.1

      In the case of NO EVIDENCE produced and putin denies then the only proper thing for Trump to do is to take him at his word ,…. had there been any actual evidence then he maby could have pushed on that but there isn’t ! in this case Trump has acted correctly…. SHOW US SOME EVIDENCE MSM

      • Ed 6.1.1

        Yes we are still waiting for evidence from Skripal poisoning in Salisbury as well!!!

      • lprent 6.1.2

        Why are you asking the MSM? Not their job to produce evidence. Evidence is what you produce in court.

        Which by the sound of it, Mueller is working towards.

        • One Two 6.1.2.1

          ‘Working to ‘produce’ evidence…

          Fabricating, would be closer the mark…

          • Tricledrown 6.1.2.1.1

            12 so how come all of Trumps men have fallen on their swords except Manafort who is in jail (given you have to have committed a very serious crime to be held with out bail)
            That’s where your argument fails give your self an uppercut 12.

        • xanthe 6.1.2.2

          “Working towards” ….. so for now we accept Putins word because that is actually all we have.

          And Trump was correct to accept Putins word untill some actual evidence is produced.

  7. Brigid 7

    Make of this what you will

    George M Nasif
    ‏ @GeorgeMNasif
    Replying to @realDonaldTrump

    I have the Server Donald. I have everything you need to bury the DNC forever. Come and get it. Russia was never involved. Obama was the culprit, along with the UK Mi5 and 6 who wired Trump Tower 5th and 26 floors. I have the documents from the UK and USA signed by Susan Rice

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeMNasif/status/1018256787986776064

  8. Brigid 8

    “If Comey thought there was any credibility whatsoever in the DNC allegations that their servers had been hacked by Russians (or any other hostile foreign entity) posing a potential “National Security threat” why didn’t Comey subpoena the servers so that the FBI could do a proper analysis?”

    http://ian56.blogspot.com/2018/07/we-100-know-that-russians-did-not-hack.html

  9. cleangreen 9

    If it smells like a ‘stitch up then it probaby is”

    (Conspiracy to Commit an Offense Against the United States)

    1. In or around 2016, the Russian Federation (“Russia”) operated a military intelligence
    agency called the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff (“GRU”). The GRU had multiple units, including. Units 26165 and 74455, engaged in cyber operations that involved the staged releases of documents stolen through computer intrusions. These units conducted largescale cyber operations to interfere with the 2016 US. presidential election.

    Pity none of these emails were any of Hillary Clintons (self deliberate destuction) of her illegal 30 000 emails at the time she was ordered to hand them over to the FBI/CIA/NSA??????
    She must surely also be indited shouldn’t she??

    Oh wait a minute!!!!! – she was in Government at the time as “secretary of state’ so she is certainly being also ‘very smelly’ to me too.

    Hillary Clinton = ‘one rule for me and no one else’.

    • Anne 9.1

      – she was in Government at the time as “secretary of state’ so she is certainly being also ‘very smelly’ to me too.

      Hillary Clinton = ‘one rule for me and no one else’.

      Didn’t the FBI search through those 30,000 emails with a fine tooth comb – twice – and found nothing illegal? She was found to have been lax on occasion by using the account for personal messaging which she apparently should not have done. Hillary Clinton said she wasn’t aware of the ruling at the time and apologised for her mistake. Is that a crime of major proportions?

      Whatever anyone might think of Hillary Clinton as a person, these vitriolic attacks – based on proven false claims – is becoming more and more pathetic. If she had been guilty she would have been indicted by now.

      • JohnSelway 9.1.1

        I can’t believe how many people are still playing the “but Clinton” card 2 fucking years later. She isn’t the president, Trump is.

        • adam 9.1.1.1

          Be nice if the h.r.c supports actually accepted she lost.

          Note before some retard jumps in saying I supported trump, I supported Jill Stein and still do. Because that’s the thing, they have to win your vote, not act like they deserve it.

          • JohnSelway 9.1.1.1.1

            Who are you talking to? Who is a Clinton supporter?

            Don’t think anyone has supported Clinton here. And she’s not even president or running anything so who gives a fuck

            • adam 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Good, so get over the fact she might actually get mentioned in a post about trump. Al Gore got mentioned a lot with Bush too.

              • JohnSelway

                there is a difference between mentioning Clinton and using Clinton as a misdirection to the dumb shit trump is up to.

                This isn’t very hard Adam

                • adam

                  Is it a misdirection, or more of the dumb shit people have been throwing around on both sides.

                  The facts are trump is president, trump is a dick, and the tactics by many to attack trump look suspiciously like the tactics used to attack h.r.c.

                  Same shit, different day?

                  • JohnSelway

                    Except for the fact Trunp is the president and not Clinton and Clinton hasn’t been running anything for over 2 years.

                    Also trump keeps talking and his admin keeps on quitting or getting indicted so a bit different. Can you see the difference?

                    • adam

                      So after two years where is the indictment on trump? If you want to shut down the comparisons, then charge trump. Otherwise this is going to carry on.

                      By the way I’m no fan of bring up h.r.c., but the longer no one charges trump with anything, the longer we get to hear about her.

                      I’d argue the resignations mean nothing, just more flames to the trump theater.

                    • JohnSelway

                      Just because no one has indicted Trump personally doesn’t exonerate him or his campaign. The probe isn’t about indicting Trump personally but to investigate Russian influence and illegality concerning his campaign and team.

                      And Muller has already secured a multitude of guilty pleas. This isn’t an investigation solely about Trump you know. Trump could be innocent of everything and just a fall guy – doesn’t mean his handlers arent guilty as sin

                    • McFlock

                      @johnselway
                      I sleep happy in the knowledge that even if Trump is a useful imbecile and it’s the corrupt people all around him who are the problem, he’s still so egotistical that he’d probably plead guilty rather than plead stupidity…

                    • Andre

                      @adam Mueller is most likely operating under current Justice Department guidelines. Which holds that indictments and/or prosecution of the sitting president would be unconstitutional.

                      https://www.justice.gov/olc/opinion/sitting-president%E2%80%99s-amenability-indictment-and-criminal-prosecution

                    • joe90

                      So after two years where is the indictment on trump?

                      Patience, grasshopper, patience….

                      https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/atd-indictments-0514.png?w=575

                    • adam

                      Andre, Oh great so we are stuck with h.r.c comments as comparisons for the next two years- at least. So much fun that is going to be. (please read with your sarcastic voice)

                      JohnSelway, I know – but at this point it is frustrating in it’s lack of clarity. I’m also very weary of Muller, as he the guy that lied to get the war started with Iraq.

                      I expect this mud sling to carry on for a very long time.

                      That said, I’m a fan of attacking the current administration for the bad it has done. Rather than making trump a boogie man.

                      The fact that the majority of people don’t get how bad the tax cuts for the rich is for ordinary people – is mind blowing. Whilst we are arguing over this rubbish, they push through more policy to expand their sickening powers, crush everyday people and fight more wars. It’s an odd time to be living in.

                    • adam

                      joe 90, I wish I had it – painence that is, but the crap that is happen to friends in the US is getting to breaking point. Especially over medicare and medicaid.

                    • Tricledrown

                      Adam you are very nigh eve.
                      It took 6 yrs before Nixon resigned so he wouldn’t be impeached.
                      Trump has only been in power for 19 months and the noose is tightening.
                      The closer they get to impeachment the more unpredictable Trump is becoming.
                      The Dead cat flops get more absurd.

                    • In Vino

                      ‘nigh eve’. I love it!

  10. SPC 10

    Who, or what, was the Russian influence that led the Democrat campaign to neglect the rust belt states – the real reason Clinton lost the presidency?

    • Brigid 10.1

      I do believe you’ve hit the nail on the head. Trump is Obama’s legacy.

      Trump campaigned on misogyny, racism, bigotry and barefaced lies. Why was the electorate so desperate that they accepted it all without question?

      But also, to be remembered is that if the Dems had given Bernie Sanders preference over Clinton they may have won.

      • cleangreen 10.1.1

        Good point brigid,

        If they had run with Bernie Sanders instead of that dumb corporate ‘clingon Clinton’ they would have won hands down so Clinton caused the demos to loose period.

    • Tricledrown 10.2

      SPC you forget who has had the hands on the coffers the republican Congress.
      They have given $Trillions to the merchant bankers to bail out their ponzi scheme’s.
      While no money got to main street even the $90 billion that was to help people with mortgages in default ended up in the likes of Peter Thiels (thief’s) hands.
      Get your facts straight

  11. marty mars 11

    I’ve noticed some comments on the web saying that the repugs limited outrage about t.rump sucking up to puti shows actually how little the repugs think of pence – remember him? Mr shadow, Mr nobody.

    • adam 11.1

      Are you a Pense supporter now marty mars?

      • marty mars 11.1.1

        Nah fundies sicken me – seems no one likes him. And that seemed funny to me thus i posted.

        What about you?

        • adam 11.1.1.1

          Loath the man.

          A hard fundamentalist who would drag us back to new dark age one bomb at a time.

    • Morrissey 11.2

      Marty, the way you’re talking, you’d think that it was Russia backing ISIS and Al Nusra in Syria, that it was Russia backing Israel’s depradations in Gaza and the Occupied Territories, that it was Russia backing the forces of fascism in Central and South America, that it was Russia backing the homocidal regimes in the Philippines and Myanmar, that it was Russia backing the notorious Modi regime in India, that it was Russia organizing massive military exercises on the North Korean border every year, that it was…

      Oh good Lord, you don’t actually believe it, do you?

      • marty mars 11.2.1

        You’d think wrong.

        • Morrissey 11.2.1.1

          Sorry, Marty, I mistook you for someone else. I got my wires crossed, and you were the collateral damage. Although, I suppose, it’s more of a case of shooting myself in the foot. Not for the first time, I might add.

          Please accept my apologies.

      • adam 11.2.2

        Gurrrrr Morrissey this is a shutting down the debate type of arguing. See /trumputin/#comment-1504043

        It’s bloody painful.

      • Ed 11.2.3

        Well said.

        • marty mars 11.2.3.1

          I’m sure you realise his weak attack was just designed so he could puff out his chest and get as much disgorge out as he could in one breath .- I thought you were better than applauding that behaviour – seems not.

  12. OnceWasTim 12

    I don’t really like popcorn but I’ve considered stuffing a shitload down my throat as I watch all the media machinations.
    The simple answer MAY well be what a lot of people are wondering. i.e. What is it that Vlad has over The Don?
    Vlad plays Chess, The Don plays Dominoes.
    Both have bloody big egos.
    Both are psychopaths – or at least sociopaths.
    One has a little man complex, the other a lumbering great fast-food-fed oxen full of shit.
    One shows off by riding a horse bare-breasted, the other by use of the fake tan,, comb-over and trophy wife
    One probably reads a high reading on the IQ scale, the other …. jeeze, I’m still wondering.

    Dangerous times when it comes to an exercise of egos, but they’ll probably both get their comeuppance – more likely The Don before The Vlad.
    Let’s just hope its before one has the opportunity to get near a button

  13. peterh 13

    And Dotcom was saying, 6 months before it happened. he was going to get dirt on Hilary. and has said a hundred times since it was not Russia, and when are the Trump haters. just once going to give us something they can prove, Trump hit the nail on the head this morning with one word RIDICULOUS

  14. I like Donald Trump!

    He’s so deliciously naïve and fuckwittery; he’s so completely self-centred and egotistical, so narcisstic! So lacking in ‘presidential’ ethos.

    He’s made American politics fun again; it’s heart-warming to watch him fucking the country up bigly. Global entertainment! The USA deserves him.

    On the other hand, he also scares the shit out of me. Women’s rights. Climate change, immigration, and so on, he’s taking this planet to hell in a hand-basket.

    Of course Russia didn’t interfere in the Presidential elections – Vlad said so. There, that was simple, wasn’t it! Theresa didn’t take his advice, that’s why she’s in a muddle. Angela needs to spend more on American weapons! And anyway, it’s all Crooked Hillary’s fault, so that’s that!

    The giant baby blimp of Trump is far closer to reality than perhaps the protesters imagined.

    • Morrissey 14.1

      It’s fun until people start getting hurt.

    • Anne 14.2

      Thanks for that TV(not etc.). A nice summation.

      After reading about his latest verbal antics and some of the responses it struck me how hilarious the whole caboodle has become.

      But on the other hand it is getting scarier by the day. His throw-back neanderthal level of mentality is driving the world closer to the brink of disaster. He’s undermining global political leadership and diplomacy everywhere. If it carries on for much longer the thugs of this world will be in control once again!

      • Morrissey 14.2.1

        the thugs of this world will be in control once again!

        The thugs had been in control for long before Trump arrived.

        • Ed 14.2.1.1

          Thugs like Cheney.

        • lprent 14.2.1.2

          the thugs of this world will be in control once again!

          The thugs had been in control for long before Trump arrived.

          Indisputably. However they were generally smarter than the orange dimwit. They certainly lied better. And (with the obvious exception of Russia under Putin and his acolytes) they seldom tried to bullshit on the basis of plausible deniability. That is to say the art of making sure that everyone with any brains knew that they had done it, while making sure that their useful idiots have a teeny weeny figleaf to hide their truth shriveled genitalia denability.

          Personally I find that anyone who is willing to go to significiant effort to hide their thuggishness far more bearable than the obvious stupidly obvious lying from the Russians and their acolytes in Turkey and Israel or just the incompetence of Trump. For a starter they have to get their story coherent and straight. This severely constrains their ability to do crap and to expect to get away with it. Neither Russia or Trump exert such effort. Instead they simply keep repeating the same obvious crap over and over again defying others to provide ‘proof’, while at the same time squirming with alternative theories for their shitheads true believers being cast off like maggots of contamination. It is incredibly lazy and definitely not worth the effort.

          BTW: I always find it weird the way you always provide room for the straight line – please now provide the comedy.

        • cleangreen 14.2.1.3

          100% correct morrissey Thugs now firmly run the world..

  15. Brutus Iscariot 15

    Let’s be clear. If you oppose this summit, you are:

    – promoting war
    – promoting global military spending (yes, it’s a logical conclusion)
    – promoting military interventionism and America’s role as self-righteous global policeman

    Those are the logical conclusions of a fully fledged “tough on Russia/China/Syria/Iran” etc etc stance, which will require more of just about everything apart from that which benefits the average punter.

    Anyone who endorses the view of the OP, is morally and intellectually bankrupt, in the sense that they stand for nothing apart from “not-Trump”, and aren’t capable of a rational deconstruction of policy.

    It’s pretty easy to envision an alternate reality in which President Sanders is undertaking a similar policy of rapproachment with traditional (and unnecessary) foes, winding back military commitments globally etc.

    The MSM can also spare us the flagellation around “offending friends and allies”. The collective EU military (even in its current diminished state) easily has the means to defend continental Europe from conventional attack from Russia (whose own military spending is 1/10th that of the US). NATO is simply redundant in this context. What’s terrifying to the establishment is that Europe might reconcile with Russia of their own accord without the US standing menacingly behind them, and Boeing/Lockheed Martin/EADS won’t have a bogeyman to justify selling hardware to protect against (China and Europe being on good terms).

    I thought we learned all this from watching the reign of Bush Jr?

    • Ed 15.1

      Thank you for your excellent r summation of the points.

      • xanthe 15.1.1

        Yup

      • cleangreen 15.1.2

        Brutus Iscariot;

        Yes thanks for clarifying the issue so clearly for us all.

        Perhaps NATO can then put al;l their war toys away again since trump has ‘de-fused the Russia/US/NATO flareup.

    • SPC 15.2

      The Donald is a big promoter of more military spending, by the USA, by NATO, by Japan and South Korea.

      He wants a new space division of the US Defence forces.

    • Tricledrown 16.1

      Stuart Munro the Atlantic sums up that Trumps behavior matches the claims made against him Putins Puppet a useful “Tool”.

      • Stuart Munro 16.1.1

        Someone made a sign that read:

        Twinkle twinkle little Czar, Putin made you what you are.

        Seemed to fit.

  16. Andre 17

    Here’s an argument that Fuckface von Clownstick is so enamored of Pootee simply because Pootee is the real thing, exactly what Tangerine Tinyhands aspires to be (but knows he’s never gonna actually make it).

    ” … In the meantime, it’s worth considering a less sexy explanation.

    It goes something like this: Trump and Putin share some of the same politics. They are, ideologically, allies. Their views on what makes for a good leader and citizen are fundamentally the same. Neither sees a loyal political opposition or free press as in any way valuable; rather, they view them as enemies. Both openly agitate against them. Putin routinely goes further.

    The chaos, or feeling of it, that Trump creates in his speeches and in press conferences like the one in Helsinki can obscure this. For all the twists and turns in his rhetoric, sometimes within the space of a few sentences, his actions almost always end up pointing in the same direction.

    Toward illiberalism.

    Toward nationalism.

    Toward authoritarians and authoritarianism.

    And away from the post-war liberal order.

    As he made clear over the last week or so, NATO for Trump is essentially a protection racket. The European Union is a leading geopolitical foe.”

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/16/politics/why-trump-treats-putin-this-way/index.html

  17. joe90 18

    Thread.

    .@ScottWalker with arrested Russian nationalist and @NRA lifetime member Maria Butina. pic.twitter.com/eNBC00WzUZ— Shannon Watts (@shannonrwatts) July 16, 2018

  18. mauī 19

    The Russians meddled using puppies…

    followed by pokemon…

    and afterward whole swathes of the left lost their minds…

  19. Ed 20

    Quite a few armchair warriors on this thread should put on their tin hats and volunteer for action in East Ukraine.
    They should not be expecting others to do their dirty work.

  20. Stuart Munro 21

    Trevor Noah breaks it down:

    • Ed 21.1

      The Daily Show would say that.
      As Brutus Iscariot so congently put it above….

      “Let’s be clear. If you oppose this summit, you are:

      – promoting war
      – promoting global military spending (yes, it’s a logical conclusion)
      – promoting military interventionism and America’s role as self-righteous global policeman

      Those are the logical conclusions of a fully fledged “tough on Russia/China/Syria/Iran” etc etc stance, which will require more of just about everything apart from that which benefits the average punter.”

      • SPC 21.1.1

        Er but Trump was a participant and he promotes increased military spending. And Putin is not reducing Russian defence spending either.

        • Ed 21.1.1.1

          And talking peace is bad?
          Again to quote Brutus.

          “Peace and de-escalation of tensions between nuclear powers, is generally something that most reasonable people (and certainly, historically the left) should hail.

          Personal animus towards Trump shouldn’t outweigh the fact that he’s pulling the bandaid off some pretty ugly stuff in the international area – in this case the morally and intellectually bankrupt consensus aggressive US foreign policy, of previous bipartisan consensus.”

          • SPC 21.1.1.1.1

            This is the same Trump who wants NATO to double the increase for defence spending from 2 to 4%.

            The same Trump who claims implementing the Obama era plan for the modernisation of their nuclear capability is his own achievement – and who has never signalled any desire to engage in nuclear reduction talks with Russia.

            The same Trump who asked his officials why they could not “Panama/Grenada” Venezuela?

            The same Trump engaged in trade wars with Canada, Mexico, China and EU – and sundry others impacted by abandonment of WTO rules by the USA.

            The same Trump who has torn up the agreement with Iran and moved the embassy to Jerusalem, left the UNHRC cut funding to the PA and walked away from the Paris agreement.

            Militarising space?

            • Ed 21.1.1.1.1.1

              Not a defender of Trump
              Simply repeating Brutus’s words.
              Give peace a chance.

              • cleangreen

                Yes;
                ” give peace a chance” ‘otherwise prepare your childen to go off to war.

                Reality check folks.

          • Stuart Munro 21.1.1.1.2

            Putin is someone to sup with with a long spoon.

            Trump is completely out of his league, giving pretty much free rein to some very dodgy actions. He can’t run US/Russia foreign policy effectively because he has no boundaries himself. He won’t draw a line over spying or electoral interference or erosions of eastern European boundaries. History will show imperial creep during the Trump/Putin period, and it is the populations of bordering states who will pay the price.

            • Ed 21.1.1.1.2.1

              Eastern Ukraine needs you.

              • Stuart Munro

                Putin doesn’t need you at all – he has hordes of equally stupid followers.

            • Tricledrown 21.1.1.1.2.2

              Arms sales are the only other Motive
              Given the US is the largest exporter.
              He has lambasted Nato and Praised Putin.
              Trump is running with the hares and hunting with the hounds and given he has managed to turn Melania he doesn’t want any P tapes ruining his lies no wonder he is sucking up to Putin.

  21. Ed 22

    Craig Murray’s nails it.

    “The entire “liberal” media and political establishment of the Western world reveals its militarist, authoritarian soul today with the screaming and hysterical attacks on the very prospect of detente with Russia. Peace apparently is a terrible thing; a renewed arms race, with quite literally trillions of dollars pumped into the military industrial complex and hundreds of thousands dying in proxy wars, is apparently the “liberal” stance.

    Political memories are short, but just 15 years after Iraq was destroyed and the chain reaction sent most of the Arab world back to the dark ages, it is now “treason” to question the word of the Western intelligence agencies, which deliberately and knowingly produced a fabric of lies on Iraqi WMD to justify that destruction.

    It would be more rational for it to be treason for leaders to blindly accept the word of the intelligence services.

    The war-hawks who were devastated by the loss of champion killer Hillary now see the prospect of their very worst fear coming true. Their very worst fear is the outbreak of peace and international treaties of arms control. Hence the media and political establishment today has reached peaks of hysteria never before seen. Pursuing peace is “treason” and the faux left now stand starkly exposed.”

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/07/detente-bad-cold-war-good/

    • Stuart Munro 22.1

      Craig Murray has never nailed anything in his life – except his colours to Putin’s mast.

      • Ed 22.1.1

        Shoot the messenger, why don’t you?
        Have you enlisted yet?

        • Stuart Munro 22.1.1.1

          You are not a messenger Ed – you’re a fucking parrot.

          Make a real argument beyond copying and pasting for once in your trivial life.

          • cleangreen 22.1.1.1.1

            Whow; Stuart; – wait on will you.

            Are you o/k as I have not seen you so worked up as you are right now?

            Look! let it go and relax; – and let trump do his work his way.

            The media has a very biased view of everything right now and I dont even believe what they are whipping up rigjht now.

            Chill out please.

            • mauī 22.1.1.1.1.1

              I believe he is showing signs of PTDS – Pooty-Trump Derangement Syndrome.

              • Stuart Munro

                Yeah but then you believe Ed.

                • Ed

                  From twitter.

                  “Trump talks to North Korea and the press hate him,
                  Trump talks to and get on with Putin and the press hate him, maybe the problem is not Trump but the press and those who want constant war.”

                  • Stuart Munro

                    Why do the press hate him Ed?

                    Trump throws children in prison and the press hate him.
                    Trump calls his allies foes and the press hate him.
                    Trump conspires to pervert the course of an election and the press hate him.

                    All perfectly good reasons.

                    • Ed

                      I do not like Trump.
                      Where have I or others said that.
                      What I have said is encapsulated by Brutus’s statement.

                      “Peace and de-escalation of tensions between nuclear powers, is generally something that most reasonable people (and certainly, historically the left) should hail.
                      Personal animus towards Trump shouldn’t outweigh the fact that he’s pulling the bandaid off some pretty ugly stuff in the international area – in this case the morally and intellectually bankrupt consensus aggressive US foreign policy, of previous bipartisan consensus.”

                      and here.

                      “Let’s be clear. If you oppose this summit, you are:

                      – promoting war
                      – promoting global military spending (yes, it’s a logical conclusion)
                      – promoting military interventionism and America’s role as self-righteous global policeman

                      Those are the logical conclusions of a fully fledged “tough on Russia/China/Syria/Iran” etc etc stance, which will require more of just about everything apart from that which benefits the average punter.
                      Anyone who endorses the view of the OP, is morally and intellectually bankrupt, in the sense that they stand for nothing apart from “not-Trump”, and aren’t capable of a rational deconstruction of policy.”

                      Get it?

                    • Stuart Munro

                      @Ed

                      Wishful thinking isn’t peace, as Chamberlain found out.

                      Putin is a guy who has trouble staying within his borders.

                      Going soft on him will only encourage him.

                    • Ed

                      So you disagree with Brutus’s summations?

                    • Stuart Munro

                      “So you disagree with Brutus’s summations?”

                      In dealing with Putin one needs to remember that one is dealing with a twenty year plus KGB guy. It’s difficult for many New Zealanders to imagine (thank heavens), but anyone with actual experience of the eastern block can tell you this is no joking matter.

                      At it’s peak the KGB had over 2 million staff. It had broken MI5 (read Peter Wright) and probably parts of the CIA. It turned large numbers of highly intelligent people to the service of a regime that wasn’t very nice.

                      Putin is not someone you can deal with casually.

                      You should notice you’ve been haranguing me to defend the Ukraine – but the only thing the Ukraine needs to be defended against is invading Russians.

                      There is a strong probability that any peace moves Putin makes will be to entrench positions and prepare for his next usurpation. He’d like to be free of sanctions of course, and free rein in Syria.

                      Using assassination or destabilization he can readily restart hostilities deniably, just as he moved troops into the Crimea before annexing it.

              • Tricledrown

                Pee
                Tape
                Soldout
                Disorder

            • Ed 22.1.1.1.1.2

              He’s probably had a few shots of vodka to gain the courage to enlist for service in the Donbass.
              The Ukrainian fascist regime will appreciate his support.

            • Stuart Munro 22.1.1.1.1.3

              Look if you want to suck up to Trump that’s your business.

              It does demonstrate a want of judgement however.

          • Ed 22.1.1.1.2

            You shot the messenger who was Craig Murray.
            I think linking to others’ viewpoints is interesting for many.

            • Stuart Munro 22.1.1.1.2.1

              It can be Ed – but you should learn to make real arguments instead of just pasting sold out Putin boosters.

              You keep saying I should volunteer to defend eastern Ukraine.

              Why would I need to do so, if your contention that Putin was a peaceable fellow had any basis in fact?

              The fact is he is an invading imperialist every bit as bad as the US. And the Ukraine really could use a bit of help. You might think about that in between posting your bullshit about Nazis.

            • Stuart Munro 22.1.1.1.2.2

              Craig Murray is a lying asshole.

              A messenger for Putin perhaps.

              You come on here, a progressive site, and boost a totalitarian dictator like Putin Ed? Have you no shame? No conscience? No understanding of the falsity of your position?

              Guess not.

              • Ed

                I am proposing peace, like Maui, Draco, Cleangreen, Brutus and many more on this thread.
                It is your hawkish neocon views that do not sit well with an international socialist worldview.

              • Brigid

                If you cared to read Craig Murray’s blog you would know he is a messenger for no one.
                It is your knee jerk Neanderthal ‘Putin/ Assad are monsters’ diatribe that is so tedious.
                Perhaps your words to Ed, “Have you no shame? No conscience? No understanding of the falsity of your position?” could more aptly be applied to you.

                • Stuart Munro

                  I’ve read him several times – he’s an ill-informed muppet who spins for Putin and has no problem lying his arse off.

                  You’re not long on substance either.

                  • Ed

                    Based on what evidence is an ex British Ambassador less informed than you ?
                    Based on what evidence can you claim he lies?

                    • Stuart Munro

                      We had this conversation at some length when he started writing nonsense about the Skripals Ed. Nothing he wrote has proven to be true – but he asserted vociferously that the designation ‘novichok’ was a lie – something he had no way of knowing even had he happened by sheer chance to have been correct.

                      Go back and read the thread if you didn’t understand it – better yet, read the Reuters story – none of Murray’s grandstanding lies, just attribution for every statement. That’s what honest reporting looks like.

                • Ed

                  It is very hard to debate with Stuart without being subjected to violent abuse.

  22. SPC 23

    “To the dwindling few who still profess to believe in this Trump/Putin liaison, it will be seen as being all about forging good relations with Russia, and negating the vested interests of the Deep State (and Crooked Hillary!) in maintaining the antagonisms of yesteryear. WelI, if there were genuine trade-offs involved that might be a defensible argument.”

    http://werewolf.co.nz/2018/07/gordon-campbell-on-the-white-house-romance-with-russia/

  23. Cemetery Jones 24

    Hahahaa “There’s no serious person out there who would sugest somehow that you could even…” https://twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1019026791497805824

  24. Ed 25

    Caitlin Johnstone Is an independent journalist.
    Here is her perspective.
    I agree with her viewpoint.

    “Opposing talks which could lead to de-escalations between the two countries who own almost all of the nuclear warheads in the world is inexcusable and unforgivable. I don’t care if you’re dumb enough to swallow the US intelligence community’s still completely unsubstantiated claims of Russian hacking. I don’t care if you think Trump is bought and owned by Vladimir Putin. Even if both of those things were true, there would still be no excuse for opposing peace talks in a dangerously escalating new cold war. None.

    Communication and understanding in this situation is an objectively good thing. This meeting with Russia’s leader, which all US presidents have done for many decades, is an objectively good thing. If you have joined in the campaign to help shove the tide of opinion away from peace and toward nuclear holocaust, you are making yourself an enemy of humanity. You have become so warped and demented by your hatred of Donald Trump that it has made a part of you less human.

    I despise Donald Trump and everything he stands for, and I despise everything that created him. I hate that I have to know his ******* name. But he is the only President of the United States right now, and he is in a unique position to help steer us away from the iceberg and avoid a confrontation that everyone on earth should want to avoid. Any possibility of that happening, however remote, should be supported.
    Only assholes and morons oppose these peace talks. If you want to help steer this ship into the iceberg of nuclear holocaust, then I want you thrown overboard. Get a ******* grip, you raving lunatics. Stop this. Stop this immediately.

    View at Medium.com

    • Stuart Munro 25.2

      “I don’t care if you’re dumb enough to swallow the US intelligence community’s still completely unsubstantiated claims of Russian hacking.”

      In fact there’s quite a lot of evidence. It’s not quite at the point that the election can be attributed to it (Comey’s second statement about Clinton swung it really). But there’s abundant evidence that Russian trolls were actively trying to make things happen, one of which was probably to reinforce the notion that the Clinton emails were something substantial.

      Russia meddles in many elections. There is plenty of evidence from Europe too.

      You can find links Ed, but you need to start sorting them for veracity. You consistently choose the fake or flake sites Russia uses to try to swing the conversation in its favour.

      • Brutus Iscariot 25.2.1

        You clearly lack historical awareness, recycling the same old arguments made by the US hawks against peace with the Soviets. The difference being now that Russia is a rump state with comparatively little power and influence.

        As i said, ask yourself if you’d be taking the same view if these policies were being followed by President Sanders? If not, you may tear the mask off your own ignorance.

        In the meantime it’s fascinating that you are so interested in loyalty to US values, interests, and power projection.

        • Stuart Munro 25.2.1.1

          Don’t project your ignorance onto me.

          Trump is out of his depth and won’t admit it.

          The same seems to be true of you.

  25. Dennis Frank 27

    Seems like a lot of political theatre going on, and as long as the powers keep the political reality behind the scenes speculation will remain the norm. Nobody ever gave Trump lessons in how to do public relations, obviously, but taking Putin’s word for it may only seem naive. May not actually be naive. If Trump is results-focused, his relationship with Putin is the key to getting the results he wants.

    Media hysteria again last night, but calls for impeachment dwindle. Protestors waving signs saying “Dems for Mike Pence” or “Pence Now!” are strangely absent. The left starting to link cause & effect? Cerebral process a tad less turgid?

    No need to deny that Russian hackers tried to influence the US election outcome. Acknowledge the evidence they did. So what? No need to assume Putin ordered that. No evidence he did – never will be unless some spook goes west & claims he did. Better for Trump to point out that American democracy won him the election & those who think Russian help won it for him are welcome to their delusions.

  26. KJT 28

    Still stinks of the political establishment, in the USA, casting around for any excuse why their preferred candidates did not win the election.

    Anything to avoid the obvious. The democrat party, in the USA, have been working for the rich for decades, making things so bad for so many people, that sabotaging the system by voting for an orange baboon, becomes a viable alternative.

    • Draco T Bastard 28.1

      Yep. That’s how populism gets power.

      The previous elected representatives don’t listen to the general populace and does everything that the rich want. This inevitably ruins many peoples lives (we cannot afford the rich) so when a populist comes along and promises to make things great for the little people again they get voted in.

      You’ll note that the majority of populists are of the right-wing conservatives that look to the past through rose tinted glasses. The type of people who think rich people dictating to poor people is a Good Thing.

  27. CHCOff 29

    Or just that Trump was an outstanding candidate and the status quo U.S. political establishment got trounced on a scale it couldn’t conceive.

    • veutoviper 30.1

      Only just saw this! Brilliant, Macro. Thanks.

    • corodale 30.2

      So the US where right to ignore the warning from the Ozzie. Can’t trust a navy that carry live sheep. “September 11 – The New Pearl Harbor” – Full version (1/3 …

  28. North 31

    I salute you Stuart Munro. Looked at this thread a couple of hours ago and was appalled at the level of Eager-Trump-Love (If-Only-By-Default) arrayed against you by once were lefties who’re as risible as fuck with their “Of course I have no truck with Trump”. Sure. Except by default. Good on you Stuart Munro ! At the very least it can be said of you that you don’t support the kidnap and abuse of tiny ones. Once again hubristic, wahanui Trumpettes have taken over The Standard.

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    For almost a week now, every one of us who isn’t an essential worker has been confined to their bubble. We are allowed to go shopping for groceries, to visit the doctor, and to get a bit of exercise if we stay local. The reason we are doing this is ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    5 hours ago
  • A Government System That Works
    The Covid-19 saga will no doubt produce many twists and turns for us before it is finally brought to an end. But one thing it has shown us – and what comfort it should bring us – is that our country’s government is in good hands. I am not thinking ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    6 hours ago
  • Smashing down the barriers: Where are we at with COVID vaccines?
    In the absence of a vaccine or a cure for a deadly disease, staying home in your bubble is what you do, the concept is not new.  To the best of my knowledge last time we did this in NZ was for polio, in the years before a vaccine came ...
    SciBlogsBy Helen Petousis Harris
    16 hours ago
  • National Network on Cuba (USA): “Cuban medical solidarity is a pillar of its society and is founde...
    The following statement was released on March 28 by the National Network on Cuba, a coalition of 40 groups, based in the United States. In recent weeks, Cuba has deployed hundreds of medical providers to over a dozen countries in Europe, Asia, as well as to their neighbors in Latin ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    17 hours ago
  • Alarming decrease in calves increases fears for endangered Hector’s dolphin
    This has been a terrible summer for Hector’s dolphins. The first indication was very low numbers of dolphin sightings during late spring and early summer. The Otago University Marine Mammal Research Team has carried out routine dolphin surveys at Banks Peninsula for more than 30 years. In all that time, ...
    SciBlogsBy Otago Marine Science
    19 hours ago
  • Time for Grant Robertson to reveal package #2?
    On March 17, Finance Minister Grant Robertson was quick out of the blocks with an economic rescue package to help businesses through the inevitable recession resulting from the coronavirus pandemic. Robertson had pulled together a scheme in short order that so far seems to have saved many jobs. In his ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    21 hours ago
  • Saving lives
    The purpose of the lockdown is to save lives, by reducing the spread of covid-19. We won't know if its really working for another week, but given the devastation that will result if it doesn't - 14,000 dead is the optimistic scenario - its definitely worth trying. But pausing the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 5
    . . March 30: Day five of living in lock-down… Woke up still in darkness. Alarm hadn’t gone off. Turn to radio clock; it’s a few minutes after 6am… I lie there in the dark, waiting to drift off to sleep… but it ain’t happening. Clock ticks over to 6.55 ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    1 day ago
  • Speaker: Les Gray: the man who told the truth
    The story of Les Gray, the public sector psychologist who told the truth about his use of cannabis and set off a storm, has a special place in the lore of cannabis reform in New Zealand.When Paul Shannon interviewed Gray for the 'Dope and Hope' issue of Planet magazine in ...
    1 day ago
  • Why now? Historical specificity and the perfect storm that has created trans identity politics
    by Phil Duncan For Marxists, a key concern about social trends is their context – not just their causes, but why they happen when they do.  Events and phenomena have causes, but they also are time or period-specific. While much of the left have capitulated recently to postmodernism, most notably ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 days ago
  • Time for a living wage for supermarket workers
    Since the lockdown began, we've all suddenly been reminded who the actually essential workers in our society are: not the people at the top who pay themselves the big bucks and rort the perks, but the people at the bottom they screw over and squeeze: cleaners, warehouse staff, truck drivers ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Hard News: MUSIC: Lockdown Grooves
    Kia ora! As I've watched nearly all my remaining work vanish over the past couple of days, it has occured to me that one good way to keep me away from arguing with fools on Twitter all the time (in the knowledge that all we're really doing is processing our ...
    2 days ago
  • A place of greater safety?
    Aotearoa New Zealand has committed to trying to extirpate the virus that causes COVID-19 from its shores. To do that, as a society we’ve moved to “Level 4”. That means adapting to unprecedented restrictions on our personal freedoms, particularly to our rights to move freely and associate with friends and ...
    PunditBy Andrew Geddis
    2 days ago
  • The police and public trust
    When the Prime Minister declared a state of emergency last week, she handed the police powers to enforce it. And almost immediately, we started hearing about heavy-handed, arbitrary "enforcement" by police who (at best) cared more about order than law, or (more likely) had no idea what the rules were ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 4
    . . Lock Down: Day 4 – A photo essay with observations . March 29: Usual wake up routine as RNZ snaps on my radio-clock. Jim Mora’s voice slowly enters my conciousness; there’s talk of a second wave of covid19 taking hold in South Korea; the week in Parliament – ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    2 days ago
  • COVID-19 vs New Zealand
    Yesterday, New Zealand recorded its first Covid-19 related death on the West Coast. Unfortunately this is unlikely to be the only fatality, with the virus now being found in every region of the country.However despite the significant danger, people are still unfortunately breaching lockdown rules.There’s really only one main very ...
    2 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #13
    Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Review... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... ‘Misinformation kills’: The link between coronavirus conspiracies and climate denial   Grist / Rob Kim / Stringer / CSA Images  Scientific ...
    2 days ago
  • Rāhui day 4
    The kids did surprisingly well today – meltdown count was about 3, and mostly fairly short ones. (And a fourth while I was writing.) Game-wise I had a go at Fell Seal: Arbiter’s Mark. It’s a fairly standard RPG with turn-based combat and what they call a “mature storyline” (it ...
    The little pakehaBy chrismiller
    3 days ago
  • Letter to a friend
    by Don Franks Hi David, Nice hearing from you, I’m glad to hear you’re getting by okay in these grim times. You asked how’s it going for us back here in New Zealand. You would have heard that the whole country is locked down and with breaks for exercise and ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    3 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 3
    . . Lock Down: Day 3 – A photo essay with observations . March 28: First day of the first weekend in Lock Down. It feels like it’s been weeks since only Level 3 was declared last Tuesday, only four days ago. Woke up this morning to RNZ; coffee; toast, ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #13
    A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week, i.e., Sun, Mar 22, 2020 through Sat, Mar 28, 2020 Articles Linked to on Facebook Sun, Mar 22, 2020 In Just 10 Years, Warming Has Increased the Odds of Disasters by Chelsea Harvey, ...
    3 days ago
  • Rāhui day 3
    I’m here in lockdown with my flatmate and her two girls (6 and 2) and it. is. a time. They’re usually really active so to start with the only boardgame in the house is the copy of Guess Who that the 6 year old got for her birthday. Flatmate commented ...
    The little pakehaBy chrismiller
    4 days ago
  • A test of civil society.
    The CV-19 (COVID) pandemic has seen the imposition of a government ordered national quarantine and the promulgation of a series of measures designed to spread the burden of pain and soften the economic blow on the most strategically important and most vulnerable sectors of society. The national narrative is framed ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 2
    . . Lock Down: Day 2 – A photo essay with observations . March 27 – Day 2 of our Strange New World. The Park and Ride near my suburb, usually filled with hundreds of vehicles, had just… four; . . Another drive into Wellington City on a highway nearly ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    4 days ago
  • How Do You Feel? What Do You Think?
    Fortune's Children: Under extraordinary pressure, the leader of the Government and the leader of the Opposition will each show us what they are made of. Have they been blessed with intelligence, grace, wit, poise, toughness, empathy and humour – and in what measure? More importantly, to what extent have they ...
    4 days ago
  • Landlords are NOT an essential service
    If you’ve ever had the misfortune of having to rent a property on the open market in New Zealand, which is one of the most expensive in the entire world, you’ll likely be keenly aware of just how arrogant and entitled landlords and their real estate agents can be.Unfortunately for ...
    4 days ago
  • A “new Society” post-COVID19 will definitely emerge. The question is: on what path?
    Society-wise, aside from the specific morbidity shall we say of the medically-oriented aspects of this COVID-19 crisis, what is unfolding before the world is in more than one way an instructive study of humanity and reactions to a high intensity, high stress environment in real time. Friends, we are at ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    5 days ago
  • Raise the Bar: Everything you need to know about the wage subsidy
    Right now low waged and insecure workers are feeling the economic brunt of the looming #Covid19 Recession. In response legal advocate Toby Cooper* and hospitality and worker’s rights advocate Chloe Ann-King, are putting together a series of legal blogs about your employment rights: In this legal blog we outline some ...
    PosseBy chloeanneking
    5 days ago
  • The massacre of prisoners in Modelo jail, Bogota, March 21
    by Equipo Jurídico Pueblos and Gearóid Ó Loingsigh (25/03/2020) An escape plan in question On the night of March 21st and the early morning of the 22nd, the forces of the Colombian state stormed into the Modelo prison in Bogotá, murdering 23 prisoners and injuring 83, in response to the ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    5 days ago
  • We are not America
    When the government banned semi-automatic weapons in response to a terrorist atrocity, gun-nuts were outraged. Mired in toxic American gun culture, they thought owning weapons whose sole purpose was killing people was some sort of "constitutional right", a necessity for "defending themselves" against the government. Now, the Court of Appeal ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • When will we know the lockdown is working?
    Just before midnight on Wednesday March 25, Aotearoa New Zealand entered a countrywide alert level four lockdown. For at least the next four weeks, everyone who isn’t an essential worker is confined to their bubble. We are doing this to stop the explosive growth in people contracting and dying from ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    5 days ago
  • Lock Down: Day 1
    . . Lock Down: Day 1 – A photo essay with observations . Day one of the Level 4 nationwide lock-down (or, DefCon 4 as I sometimes cheekily call it) started at 11.59PM on 25 March. For a moment, most of the nation held it’s collective breath. In that brief ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    5 days ago
  • A Compelling Recollection.
    Broad, Sunlit Uplands: How those words fired my young imagination! Or, perhaps, it is more accurate to say: how those words fused, in my young mind, with the image printed on every packet of Fielder’s Cornflour. Always fascinated by history, especially modern history, I cannot hear Churchill’s wonderfully evocative words, even ...
    5 days ago
  • The Warehouse – where everyone gets a virus
    . . 24 March 2020 9.46AM Number of covid19 cases in Aotearoa New Zealand: 102 . As of 11.59 on Thursday, most of New Zealand will go into “lock down”. People will be expected not to travel to work; not to socialise; and to stay home. I will not be ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    5 days ago
  • Aggressive action to address climate change could save the world $145 trillion
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections A respected research group, Project Drawdown, finds that deploying solutions consistent with meeting the Paris climate targets would cost tens of trillions of dollars globally. But crucially, those outlays would also yield long-term savings many times larger than the up-front costs. The new 2020 Drawdown ...
    6 days ago
  • After the Pandemic
    It will pass. What happens next? Not immediately, but longer term. There are many opinions, fewer certainties. Will it “change everything!” as many confidently, and contradictorily predict? In this post I look at how foresight can help bound some of the uncertainties so you can more objectively consider the future. ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    6 days ago
  • Coronavirus – Cuba shows the way
    We’ve been meaning t write something on Cuba and the coronavirus but have just discovered a very good article on the subject in the US left publication Jacobin.  The article looks at how Cuba, a poor country but one where capitalism has been done away with, is leading the way ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    6 days ago
  • Using privacy law to prevent the death penalty
    In 2018, El Shafee Elsheikh and Alexanda Kotey - two British citizens who had purportedly been stripped of their citizenship by the British government - were captured while fighting for Isis in Syria. The British government then conspired to hand them over to the US, and agreed to provide evidence ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • It’s Time For Disaster Socialism.
    Transformers: The disaster of the Great Depression was transformed into a new and fairer society by the democratic socialism of the First Labour Government. The disaster of the Covid-19 Pandemic offers a similar transformative possibility to the Labour-NZ First-Green Government. Seize the time, Jacinda! You will never have a better ...
    6 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #12, 2020
    Tamper with The System? Well, we already are. But there's a difference between accidentally trickling sand into a precision gearbox versus formulating a plan to alter it on the fly with improvements in mind. One action is more or less innocently unscrupulous, the other amenable to earning an easy ...
    6 days ago
  • Avoidable hospitalisations: Helping our health system get through COVID-19
    Associate Prof George Thomson, Louise Delany, Prof Nick Wilson While it is possible that New Zealand can use intense public health controls to eradicate COVID-19 from the country – we must also plan for other scenarios where thousands of New Zealanders are sick – including many urgently hospitalised.1 Better resilience ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    7 days ago
  • Raise the Bar: 10 questions to ask your employer proposing redundancy
    Kia ora my name is Chloe Ann-King* and I am the founder of Raise the Bar, a campaign and non-profit that gives free legal aid, advocacy and tautoko to hospitality workers in Aotearoa. Right now all over our country hospo workers are being fired at will, having shifts cut or being ...
    PosseBy chloeanneking
    1 week ago
  • An equitable way to support business
    The Herald reports that the government is planning to lend billions of dollars to large businesses to keep them operating during the pandemic. As with mortgage relief, this is necessary: we need companies to stay in business, to reduce the economic damage and help things get restarted again when this ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Hard News: Together Alone
    We're about to do something unprecedented as a nation. We hope that by taking this extraordinary action before a single life in New Zealand has been lost to the deadly novel virus we will save tens of thousands of lives. Our  lives. We'll do it together, in households, in isolation ...
    1 week ago
  • Why timing is everything: ‘A time to refrain from embracing’ starts today
    “There is a time for everything,    and a season for every activity under the heavens.”So writes the author of Ecclesiastes, a book in the Old Testament that’s counted as a ‘wisdom’ book and written as if by an unnamed king of Jerusalem. But who would have thought there would be a time ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    1 week ago
  • Dealing with the Covid-19 Tsunami.
    I was surprised when the prime minister described the Economic Response to Covid-19 package as the ‘largest peacetime government spend in New Zealand's history’. Reflecting – checking through history – I realised that the term ‘spend’ was crucial and the package had no income tax cuts. Even so, it has ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    1 week ago
  • What about renters?
    The government today announced the latest part of its pandemic relief package: a six-month mortgage holiday for people whose incomes have been affected by the pandemic. Which is great, because these people are going to need help, and that's what the government should be doing. At the same time, it ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Living within our means.
    Years ago the Argentine sociologist Carlos Weisman wrote a book titled “Living within our Means.” It was a critique of Argentine society that focused on the paradoxical question of why, in a land of plenty, there was so much economic instability, inequality, corruption and political turmoil. His conclusion was basically ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Transparency and the pandemic
    Parliament will be leading by example and adjourning tomorrow after a special sitting to consider an epidemic notice and state of emergency. Day-to-day oversight of the government will be delegated to a select committee. But that's not the only overight mechanism. The OIA will still be law, and (so far) ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • ‘Overjoyed’: a leading health expert on New Zealand’s coronavirus shutdown, and the challengin...
    Michael Baker, University of Otago Overjoyed. That’s not a word epidemiologists normally use, but that’s how I felt after hearing Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s announcement about New Zealand’s COVID-19 shutdown of everything except essential services for at least four weeks from midnight on Wednesday. More than anything, I just ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • One way to solve the housing crisis
    How much homelessness is caused by house hoarding? We're about to find out. The pandemic has destroyed tourism, which means that house hoarders who put their hoarded properties up as short-term tourist rentals are now offering them on the ordinary rental market:Property investors are pulling properties from Airbnb to offer ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The pros and cons of planting trees to address global warming
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Bruce Lieberman It seems like such a simple, straightforward, empowering idea: plant trees – a lot of trees – all over the world, and watch the planet’s temperature fall. Who doesn’t love a tree or two, even far more – the right ...
    1 week ago
  • Not a grand coalition, but a government of national salvation
    According to Newshub, Simon Bridges is open to joining a “grand coalition” with Labour as we hunker down to go into a month long lockdown. The idea is sound. Before now, the role of the opposition was to scrutinise and oppose. In the context of what almost amounts to a ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    1 week ago
  • Raise the Bar: hospitality workers & wage subsidy entitlements
    Kia ora my name is Chloe Ann-King* and I am the founder of Raise the Bar, a campaign and non-profit that gives free legal aid, advocacy and tautoko to hospitality workers in Aotearoa. Right now all over our country hospo workers are being fired at will, having shifts cut or ...
    PosseBy chloeanneking
    1 week ago
  • Lifting our game against COVID-19
    We need to be lifting our game against COVID-19. You and I need to help those working to prevent the spread of COVID-19 while they’re trying to lift the testing and treatment efforts. We don’t want to be playing this game running backwards. Best to play it solidly forward, from ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    1 week ago
  • The maths and ethics of minimising COVID-19 deaths in NZ
    Prof Tony Blakely, Prof Michael Baker, and Prof Nick Wilson The NZ Government must do more to clearly articulate its COVID-19 strategy: eradication or ‘flattening the curve’ mitigation. But to do so means understanding the maths and ethics of both these strategies. In this blog, we adapt our work for ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • All aboard the Covid Train
    A few days ago I was starting to write something about the pandemic, which now seems unconscionable. It took the form of a letter to an agony aunt:“Dear Deidre, I have an ugly confession. I am quite excited by Covid-19.”This is how the piece went:“I’m not a psychopath, honest. Although the ...
    PunditBy Phil Vine
    1 week ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #12
    Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Climate Feedback Article Review... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Reviews... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... In Just 10 Years, Warming Has Increased the Odds of Disasters The likelihood of extreme events ...
    1 week ago
  • We are all socialists now
    Last week, the government announced a $12 billion initial package to support people during the pandemic. Today, the Reserve Bank is buying government bonds - effectively printing money - to keep up the money supply during the crisis. Normally such moves would have the right apoplectic. Instead, the National Party ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A plea to experts: safeguard your role in public life
    I am a pundit, somebody who opines and comments on the news. There are no real qualifications to punditry though having a rudimentary way with words and good general knowledge helps. That is one reason there is a constant oversupply of would-be pundits and why it is quite hard to ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    1 week ago
  • Enlightenment when?
    I recently encountered the following prescription from a Faculty of Education at a leading New Zealand University. At first I wondered if it was another product of the postmodern generator (http://www.elsewhere.org/journal/pomo/), designed to create gibberish in the postmodern form, but I’m told it is real: The “schooled” society: Towards the ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    1 week ago
  • What the Crisis Can teach Us
    The coronavirus pandemic has of course had a major impact on individual lives and on societies as a whole. But, long after the crisis has passed (assuming it does), we will begin to realise that its real and lasting significance lies in the lessons it has taught us, if only ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • Hammering home measures to stop COVID-19
    COVID-19 has plunged Aotearoa New Zealand (indeed, the world) into territory that, while maybe not totally unprecedented, certainly hasn’t been seen during the lifetimes of most of us here today. Our borders are closed to non-citizens, we’re being told not to gather in groups of more than 500 outside/100 inside, ...
    PunditBy Andrew Geddis
    1 week ago
  • What does ‘level two’ mean – and why does it matter?
    For the last few weeks, I’ve been urging you to prepare yourself, your family, business, and community for Covid-19. Now it’s time for real action.  Yesterday the director-general of health Dr Ashley Bloomfield announced another 13 confirmed cases of Covid-19 in New Zealand, bringing our total to date to 52. ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    1 week ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #12
    A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week, i.e., Sun, Mar 15, 2020 through Sat, Mar 21, 2020 Editor's Pick Now Isn’t the Time to Forget About Our Climate Change Efforts   Tasha Tilberg, Lindsey Wixson, and Liu Wen photographed ...
    1 week ago
  • Is the Guardian becoming  a real newspaper again?
    by Jan Rivers The article has been corrected to show that it was Ewen MacAskill, former Guardian journalist and not Luke Harding who travelled to meet Edward Snowden with journalist Glenn Greenwald and filmmaker Laura Poitras.  Some of the Guardian’s well-known journalists who did not sign the protest letter are ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Life asserts itself regardless
    by Cultural Worker Late March 2020 amidst the virus. With gigs crashing and burning all around it was without much hope that I called a long standing rest home booking: “ Hi, I’m supposed to be entertaining at your place this afternoon – is it still on?” “”If you don’t ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Politics, the possible, and the pandemic
    Whenever people demand real change from their politicians, we're told that "politics is the art of the possible". The implication is that change isn't possible, so we'd better just get used to the sucky status quo. But now that there's a pandemic, a lot of things we were previously told ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The Only Way Through This Crisis Is Together.
    Together: In leading New Zealand through the Covid-19 Pandemic, the Prime Minister could do a lot worse than allow herself to be guided by the spirit of collective sacrifice and co-operation that animated the New Zealanders of 80 years ago. Most Kiwis alive today have had no opportunity to prove their ...
    2 weeks ago
  • GFC vs Covid-19
    It is said that generals fight the last war. In the case of the early stages of the Global Financial Crisis (GFC) they had learned from the Great Depression of the 1930s and they fought intelligently and successfully. Later their advice would be ignored in favour of the Austerians who ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    2 weeks ago

  • Advance payments to support contractors
    Advance payments will be made to transport construction industry contractors to retain the workforce and ensure it is ready to quickly gear up to build projects which will be vital to New Zealand’s COVID-19 economic recovery, Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today. He said keeping the workforce required to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • Government seeks infrastructure projects
    The Government has tasked a group of industry leaders to seek out infrastructure projects that are ready to start as soon as the construction industry returns to normal to reduce the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, Economic Development Minister Phil Twyford and Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones say. The Infrastructure ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Health system scaled up to prepare for COVID-19
    Work to scale up the health system in preparation for COVID-19 was today outlined by Health Minister David Clark, as he reported back to the new Epidemic Response Committee. “We are well placed to contain the spread of COVID-19. We have taken early and decisive action at our borders, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • Essential media COVID-19 guidelines refined
    The Government is refining its COVID-19 essential business guidance to include the distribution of news publications for communities which are hard to reach. The Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media, Kris Faafoi, said the move was in recognition of the importance for New Zealanders who might be harder to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • New Zealand defence personnel conclude mission at Taji
    Following the successful conclusion of the Building Partner Capacity (BPC) mission at Taji, New Zealand defence personnel are returning to New Zealand from Iraq, in accordance with the Cabinet decision made in June 2019, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today. “New Zealand is very ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • State of National Emergency extended
    The State of National Emergency to help stop the spread of COVID-19 has been extended for a further seven days, Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare said. The initial declaration on March 25 lasted seven days and can be extended as many times as necessary. “Since we went into isolation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Strong Govt books support ‘go hard, go early’ response
    New Zealand’s ability to go hard and go early in the fight against COVID-19 has been underpinned by strong Government finances and the growing economy heading into this global pandemic, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. The Treasury today released the Crown financial statements for the eight months to the end ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Christchurch Hospital Hagley ICU to open to support COVID-19 response
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says 36 new intensive care beds at Christchurch Hospital’s new Hagley building are being fast tracked so they are available for treatment of COVID-19 patients.   The Ministry of Health is working with contractor CPB and Canterbury DHB to enable access to the hospital’s ICU, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government supports Air NZ freight flights
    The Government has fast-tracked up to $1 million to help Air New Zealand move urgent freight to and from New Zealand, with the first flight to Shanghai leaving tonight, Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today. Phil Twyford says it’s crucial that trade in vital goods such as medical supplies and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Tariff concessions on COVID-19 related products
    New Zealand will temporarily remove tariffs on all medical and hygiene imports needed for the COVID-19 response. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker and Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi said today that the New Zealand Customs Service will apply tariff concessions to all diagnostic reagents and testing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Clarification of modification to wage subsidy scheme
    Minister of Finance Grant Robertson has clarified that the changes to the wage subsidy scheme announced yesterday mean that employers should be passing on the full subsidy to workers, except in the case where the person’s normal income is less than the level of the subsidy. “We still want employers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Face masks flowing to DHBs
    Medical face masks from the national reserve supply are now being distributed to District Health Boards, while at the same time local production is being ramped up. Yesterday more than 640,000 masks were sent to DHBS – that is an immediate two week supply, with more to follow in coming ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • COVID-19: Further steps to protect New Zealanders’ jobs
    The Government has made modifications to the wage subsidy scheme to ensure people don’t lose their jobs during the national lockdown. These changes will soften the impact of COVID-19 on workers, families and businesses, and position them to exit the lockdown and look to recovery, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Tax relief for Mycoplasma Bovis farmers
    Farmers whose herds were culled in response to the outbreak of Mycoplasma bovis will be able to minimise the tax treatment of their income in some circumstances. Revenue Minister Stuart Nash says Cabinet has agreed to change the law. It means farmers may be eligible to spread their income over ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • $27 million for NGOs and community groups to continue providing essential services
    A $27 million dollar package, effective immediately, is being provided to social sector services and community groups to ensure they can continue to provide essential support to communities as we stay at home as a nation to stop the spread of COVID-19, Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni announced. “At ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Statement on guilty plea of March 15 terrorist
    “The guilty plea today will provide some relief to the many people whose lives were shattered by what happened on March 15,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said. “These guilty pleas and conviction bring accountability for what happened and also save the families who lost loved ones, those who were injured, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • COVID-19 updates
    The Prime Minister is holding daily press conferences to update New Zealanders on the Government's response to COVID-19. Links to videos and transcripts of these updates below. These transcripts also include All of Government press conferences led by Director Ministry of Health's Director-General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield. 25 March: Live update from the Prime ...
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    6 days ago
  • Police numbers break through 10,000 mark
    Frontline Police numbers have broken through the 10,000 mark for the first time in history as officers step forward to keep the community safe during the COVID19 lockdown. “Two Police graduations in Auckland and Wellington in the past week have been conducted in unprecedented circumstances,” Police Minister Stuart Nash said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Urgent tax measures for economic recovery
    Urgent legislation has been passed to support the package of economic and social measures needed to recover from the impact of the coronavirus outbreak. “The COVID-19 Response (Taxation and Social Assistance Urgent Measures) Bill will cushion New Zealanders from the worst economic impacts of the COVID-19 outbreak,” said Revenue Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Further support for farmers and growers as drought persists
    From tomorrow, Government support for farmers and growers affected by drought will be expanded and extended across the country, with access to Rural Assistance Payments (RAPS) available throughout the North Island, parts of the South Island and the Chatham Islands, Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced. “These challenging conditions have ...
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    7 days ago
  • COVID-19: Temporary changes to Education Act
    Parliament has passed amendments to legislation that give the Secretary of Education stronger powers to act in the fight to limit the spread of COVID-19, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “They are part of a suite of changes passed under the COVID-19 Response (Urgent Management Measures) Legislation Bill,” Chris ...
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    7 days ago
  • Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar join NZ and Singapore in committing to keeping supply a...
    Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar have joined forces with New Zealand and Singapore by committing to keep supply chains open and remove any existing trade restrictive measures on essential goods, especially medical supplies, in the face of the Covid-19 crisis.  Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker today welcomed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • COVID-19: Rent increase freeze and more protection for tenants
    Immediate freeze on rent increases Tenancies will not be terminated during the lock-down period, unless the parties agree, or in limited circumstances Tenants who had previously given notice can stay in their if they need to stay in the tenancy during the lock-down period Tenants will still be able to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Working together to protect businesses and workers
    As New Zealand unites to lock-down in the fight against COVID-19, the Finance Minister is urging all businesses and workers to stay connected over the next four weeks. “We understand the extreme pressure many businesses are under right now. I know most business owners think of their workers as family ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • State of National Emergency declared to fight COVID-19
    A State of National Emergency has been declared across the country as the Government pulls out all the stops to curtail the spread of COVID-19. “Today we put in place our country’s second ever State of National Emergency as we fight a global pandemic, save New Zealanders’ lives and prevent ...
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    7 days ago
  • Prime Minister’s statement on State of National Emergency and Epidemic Notice
    Mr Speaker I wish to make a Ministerial Statement under Standing Order 347 in relation to the recent declaration of a State of National Emergency. Having considered the advice of the Director Civil Defence Emergency Management, the Minister of Civil Defence declared a State of National Emergency for the whole of ...
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    7 days ago
  • Deadline for domestic travel extended
    People needing to travel on domestic flights, trains and Cook Strait ferries to get home before the country moves into level 4 lock-down tomorrow night will be able to continue using the passenger services until midnight on Friday, Transport Minister Phil Twyford said today. Domestic passenger services, particularly ferries, have ...
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    1 week ago
  • Mortgage holiday and business finance support schemes to cushion COVID impacts
    The Government, retail banks and the Reserve Bank are today announcing a major financial support package for home owners and businesses affected by the economic impacts of COVID-19. The package will include a six month principal and interest payment holiday for mortgage holders and SME customers whose incomes have been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government working to keep air freight moving
    Minister of Transport Phil Twyford has today announced details of the Government’s support package to keep key air freight moving and ensure New Zealanders retain access to essential goods during the four-week level 4 lockdown. “The Government is working with airlines and air freight operators to ensure New Zealand’s key ...
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    1 week ago
  • New Zealand moves to COVID-19 Alert Level 3, then Level 4 in 48 hours
    New Zealand moved up to COVID-19 Alert Level 3 – Restrict New Zealand to move up to COVID-19 Alert Level 4 – Eliminate, in 48 hours Two-staged approach to give people and businesses time to prepare  Level 3, from tomorrow Non-essential businesses must close All events and gatherings must be ...
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    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister: COVID-19 Alert Level increased
    Good afternoon  The Cabinet met this morning to discuss our next actions in the fight against COVID-19.  Like the rest of the world, we are facing the potential for devastating impacts from this virus. But, through decisive action, and through working together, do we have a small window to get ...
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    1 week ago
  • Govt takes significant economic decisions as NZ readies for Alert Level 4 in COVID-19 fight
    The Government is announcing significant further support for the economy, workers and businesses as the country unites to prepare for Alert Level 4 in the fight against COVID-19. Cabinet today agreed to remove the cap on the Government’s wage subsidy scheme, which will inject a further $4 billion into the ...
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    1 week ago
  • Govt backs RBNZ move to support economy with lower interest rates
    The Government is backing the Reserve Bank’s latest action to support the economy by reducing longer-term interest rates, meaning lower costs for businesses and mortgage holders, and a lower currency to help our exporters. The Minister of Finance has signed a memorandum of understanding and a letter of indemnity with ...
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    1 week ago
  • Government statement on commercial cooperation during COVID-19
    The Government has asked the Commerce Commission to take account of the exceptional circumstances created by COVID-19 when monitoring business behaviour in coming weeks.   “The purpose of my request to the Commerce Commission is to make sure businesses can work together in ways that will allow them to provide ...
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    1 week ago
  • New Zealand temporarily closes diplomatic posts in Barbados and Myanmar due to COVID-19
    The New Zealand Government has temporarily closed its High Commission in Bridgetown, Barbados and its Embassy in Yangon, Myanmar due to the COVID-19 pandemic, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Due to the increasing scarcity of air links in and out of Bridgetown and Yangon, and the pressure COVID-19 is placing ...
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    1 week ago
  • Supporting Māori communities and businesses through
    Associate Health and Whānau Ora Minister Peeni Henare has today announced the Government’s plan to support Māori communities and businesses in the face of COVID-19. “Our Government’s $12.1 billion economic package will help many Māori whānau, workers and businesses, whether it’s through wage subsidies, income support and worker redeployment, or ...
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    1 week ago
  • Guidelines for hospitality establishments released
    The Government and the hospitality industry have worked together to produce guidelines to assist with managing and reducing transmission of COVID-19, Health Minister David Clark announced today.  The guidelines developed between the Government, Hospitality New Zealand and SkyCity Entertainment Group, set out how the new restrictions on physical distancing and ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Nation steps up to COVID-19 Alert Level 2
    Four stage Alert System for COVID-19 announced New Zealand moved up to COVID-19 Alert Level 2 – Reduce Contact New Zealanders over 70 and those with certain medical conditions told to stay at home as much as they can to reduce risk of contact with the virus Workplaces to implement ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • PM Address – Covid-19 Update
    Kia ora koutou katoa I’m speaking directly to all New Zealanders today to give you as much certainty and clarity as we can as we fight Covid-19. Over the past few weeks, the world has changed. And it has changed very quickly. In February it would have seemed unimaginable to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • NZ and Singapore commit to keeping supply and trade links open, including on essential goods and med...
    New Zealand and Singapore have jointly committed to keep supply chains open and to remove any existing trade restrictive measures on essential goods, especially medical supplies, in the face of the Covid-19 crisis. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker welcomed the commitment. “This is an important collective response, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago