Turn out and vote National out

110 comments on “Turn out and vote National out ”

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1. Jrobin 1

   21 June 2014 at 8:23 am

   Succinct summary of the current state of what used to be a Nation, now a satellite of Us interest and a whore to business interests. This hypnosis of the populace is a strange and scary process. How to interrupt the signals and soma induced sleep walking. Some sort of shock is needed to wake up the survival instincts of the slumbering kiwi. Any suggestions?
   • Colonial Viper 1.1

     21 June 2014 at 8:33 am

     Succinct summary of the current state of what used to be a Nation, now a satellite of Us interest and a whore to business interests.

     With John Key, National and its corporate cronies acting as the pimp whoring us and our nation out, taking a big cut of the dollars on the way for their own extravagant and amoral ends.
   • Tom Jackson 1.2

     21 June 2014 at 2:24 pm

     I don’t think it’s hypnosis. Many people sincerely believe what John Key says, and many people probably don’t, but are trying to hold on to what they have and will vote for the party that is less likely to raise taxes on them. The fact that this is collectively self defeating behaviour eludes them.

     Time to hunker down and see what can be salvaged from this mess.
     • lurgee 1.2.1

       21 June 2014 at 4:25 pm

       Part of the problem is (unintentionally) summarised in the title of the post – people might be inclined to vote National out, but they sure as Hell can’t think why they might want to vote Labour in. They might not trust John Key any more, but they sure as Hell don’t trust Cunliffe. They might not like where New Zealand is going, but Labours alternative is not winning much support. It isn’t registering. It isn’t making people’s ears prick up and think, “Yeah, we need some of that!”

       As for the ‘dodgy polls,’ spare us the excuses. If Labour are tanking in the polls it is because the electorate Just Don’t Want To Vote For Them. It might not be as dire as 23%, but it certainly isn’t much better. Labour have managed to move backwards from the glory days of David Shearer. No policy, no unity, no leadership, no vision, no message, just a weak bunch of time serving vacillators who are thinking they’ll be back no matter what, so why bother trying?

       New Zealanders are still voting for John Key because they think he is better than the alternative. That’s a bitter truth but one the Labour party will need to face up to. Until Labour can actually put together a coherent series of arresting, exciting policies that stand up to scrutiny and don’t sound intimidating or confusing (“They’re going to force me into Kiwisaver? Then put up the rate?”) they haven’t a hope. And they won’t d that until about half the MPs in caucus have been ejected and replaced by real people, not political professionals and nonentities. And that’s only the first step.

       It’s pathetic that two defeats and another in the offing have not percolated through to the senile brain of Labour. It isn’t working, to borrow from Saatchi & Saatchi. It might be unfixable. We might be looking at a new, post-Labour left. Which is a shame,a s it will take a couple of electoral cycles at least for that to work itself out. And that means another couple of years of Key and then a term and a bit of Bill, at least.

       Maybe Labour really needs to be hammered in September. National experienced that in 2002. Maybe Cunliffe will be Labour’s Bill English, who failed because he couldn’t win the support and trust of the radical right fringe of his party. It was brutal, and it nearly ushered in the now unthinkble idea of Don Brash as Prime Minister. But it lead to the formation of a new, disciplined, focused and united party, Hell bent on winning power. Unfortunately. Perhaps Labour needs that sort of near-death experience, so it finds the will to re-invent itself. Or maybe it just needs to be put out of our misery.

       Even if Labour manages some sort of victory in September, it will be nothing to celebrate about. The party of the working class, the party that is supposed to champion the 99% of New Zealanders who aren’t stinking rich and who don’t own gold speedboats, polling 30% and jobbed into power by the Greens and Winston Peters? It’s an indictment of the uselessness of the Labour Party that it has come to this.
       • Melb 1.2.1.1

         21 June 2014 at 7:04 pm

         Your comment is exactly what the readership here don’t want to admit. They come to the Standard to fantasise about “the missing million” putting Labour into power without Labour making any changes whatsoever. It’s a dream, and will turn into a nightmare when the reality of the election results sink in.
         • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1.1.1

           21 June 2014 at 7:13 pm

           Changes like a more democratic way of creating policy and electing the leader, for example?

           As a Green supporter I still can’t help but notice how ignorant of the changes in the Labour Party you are. That’s ok, ignorance is a condition we all share, but this is a political forum, perhaps you might try and get up to speed?
           • karol 1.2.1.1.1.1

             21 June 2014 at 7:25 pm

             And lurgee’s also dissing the Greens. Great if many people vote Green as an alternative to Labour, and the make-up of a left government reflects that. As well as being wrong about Labour changing, Lurgee also seems to be living in a FPtP world.
       • karol 1.2.1.2

         21 June 2014 at 7:11 pm

         It is frequently said that governments don’t get voted in, they just get voted out. Key’s government only got in to start with because of the concerted anti-Clark campaigning and whispering game of the righties.

         Key’s government will get voted out…. it’s already on the slide. They are not trusted by a large number of Kiwis. And if people aren’t into Labour, there are alternatives to vote for. We’re not in FPtP anymore.
       • BM 1.2.1.3

         21 June 2014 at 7:39 pm

         Great post, not a lot more you can really add to it, covers pretty much everything about what’s wrong with our 2nd largest party.
       • Tom Jackson 1.2.1.4

         21 June 2014 at 11:23 pm

         This post assumes that the problem is Labour failing to make itself electable.

         If Labour making itself electable means veering towards the National Party, then left wingers have very little reason to vote at all. It’s the constant, unprincipled moving to the centre (or call it what it really is: moving ever rightwards) that is putting many people off voting at all.

         But even if Labour did this and got elected, it would solve very little, since it would need to be somewhat to the left of where it is now to actually solve many of the most pressing issues. It’s hard to see any real progress on house prices without some large piece of state intervention in the market (whether this be public housing or increased taxation of rental properties, or whatever). It’s also hard to see NZ fixing Christchurch or avoiding another similar mess without large scale intervention, since the private insurers have proven unreliable. Can’t see electricity prices or funding retirement being fixed properly without similar large scale state interventions either. Haven’t even mentioned poverty or inequality yet.

         To be fair, Labour has made some fairly decent gestures towards taking on some of these problems, but it’s made them unelectable (although media screaming is responsible for some of that). So you have the sad situation in which any party proposing to actually work to fix things is unelectable, and the only advice people have to a party is to make it’s policies more stupid and useless so as to get elected.

         NZ is starting to look like the US, where the political system and the majority of voters are the chief impediment to fixing society’s problems. No wonder people don’t vote. What’s the point in voting when voter ignorance, selfishness and irrationality prevents a worthwhile outcome? You can’t have a working democracy when voters won’t take responsibility for the long term welfare of their own country.
2. Paul 2

   21 June 2014 at 8:26 am

   This needs a wider readership.
   • Olwyn 2.1

     21 June 2014 at 2:32 pm

     I thought the same – if only one could see pieces like this in the mainstream media.
     • Colonial Viper 2.1.1

       21 June 2014 at 2:39 pm

       The Left needs its own media infrastructure. Its how you pressure the MSM to lift its game. Shame them into it if necessary. The Standard is a reasonable step. (Well done again to those foresightful lefty souls all those years ago).

       And Labour was never that serious about full on non-commercial public broadcasting last time around; hope they have learnt from having that slack centrist attitude bite them in the ass.
   • Anne 2.2

     21 June 2014 at 7:34 pm

     +1 Paul.

     Not one word in that post has been exaggerated. Congrats Blue.
3. MrPip 3

   21 June 2014 at 8:30 am

   You’ve convinced me. I’m just not sure of what.
4. BM 4

   21 June 2014 at 8:35 am

   And vote in the coalition of the fuckwits.
   Good luck ,pitching that to Joe Public.

   Facts are Labour in in no way ready to lead the country, the Greens are immensely disliked and as for Hone the racist Mofo and his best buddy Sergeant Schultz, the less said about them the better.

   Even if Key has a few faults, he’s light years ahead of the alternative and that’s obvious to anyone who isn’t a drooling idiot.
   • Paul 4.1

     21 June 2014 at 8:39 am

     zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
   • fisiani 4.2

     21 June 2014 at 9:08 am

     Turn out and vote National (fixed it for you)
   • weka 4.3

     21 June 2014 at 10:37 am

     lolz @ BM. You’re forgetting that half the country didn’t vote for the bunch of clowns we have now. Keep up the false framing though, it’ll mean a harder fall if you lose.
     • MrPip 4.3.1

       21 June 2014 at 10:42 am

       oh dear, and so you could say 70% didn’t vote Labour, 85% didn’t vote greens, at what point is this an absurd grasp?
       • weka 4.3.1.1

         21 June 2014 at 1:40 pm

         What? BM seems to think that most of the country like NACT. I’m pointing out that not even 50% of the country voted for them, so he’s full of shit.

         There are other, more qualified people who can comment on the likely makeup of the non-vote. Plenty of comments on this recently if you want to have a look.
       • Colonial Viper 4.3.1.2

         21 June 2014 at 2:42 pm

         oh dear, and so you could say 70% didn’t vote Labour

         72.5% did not vote Labour. Plus about 800K non-vote. For a party which is supposed to represent 90% of NZers, that alone should bring some pause.
   • Blackcap 4.4

     21 June 2014 at 12:12 pm

     Could not agree more. The polls are reflecting your sentiment. And before anyone starts rubbishing polls, the money is on National too…. they predict a 80% chance of victory and Centrebet in Australia have even suspended betting on the NZ election. I do not have a problem with Labour normally but they have alienated their core constituency. What would be great would be a coalition govt of National and Labour and get rid of the far left extremist nonsense that is the greens and Mana/Internet. But I do not think NZ is ready for that yet. It happens all the time in say Germany or Holland where the centre right and centre left parties govern.
     • karol 4.4.1

       21 June 2014 at 12:25 pm

       So you are saying Labour & NZ is no longer committed to left wing values.

       A grand coalition would be the final nail in the coffin of democracy in NZ – no longer a party that works strongly for the least well off – a coalition for the already haves.
       • Blackcap 4.4.1.1

         21 June 2014 at 1:07 pm

         No I am saying Labout have deserted their centre left constituents and have gone too far to the left. The least well off in this country have it pretty good under either Labour or National. But Labour are pandering to the Greens/Mana/Internet and that I cannot accept. If Cunliffe had outright said he will not be doing a deal with Mana/Internet then maybe just maybe he may have had a bit of credibility. But Cunliffe is just a union puppet and he has no real kahunas to make a fist of things. Shearer was a lot better. At least I could respect Shearer as a person. I loathe Cunliffe and all he stands for.
         • karol 4.4.1.1.1

           21 June 2014 at 1:10 pm

           I disagree with your argument, and judgements. The parties you call “extremist ;left” are the ones standing most strongly for the least well off. The Labour Party is still focused too much on winning over those on middle incomes. in a coalition of Nat and Labour, the least well off would be abandoned, and Labour would be pulled even more into the neoliberal scam.
           • Blackcap 4.4.1.1.1.1

             21 June 2014 at 1:30 pm

             Hi Karol,

             Thats ok, we shall just have to agree to disagree 🙂
             • Anne …

               21 June 2014 at 7:37 pm

               Just make an effort to better inform yourself Blackcap. There’s a good chap/chapess.
         • Colonial Viper 4.4.1.1.2

           21 June 2014 at 1:33 pm

           The least well off in this country have it pretty good under either Labour or National.

           Do you genuinely believe this? If so you really are an ignorant dick.

           So let me ask you:

           1) when was the last time you had to choose between going to the dentist to get a filling fixed or paying your power bill?

           2) when was the last time you had $50 left and that’s all you had to spend for a weeks groceries?

           3) when was the last time you wore you shoes until they were so worn water seeped in every time you stood in a puddle?

           Just another ‘well I’m alright, Jack’ type.
           • Anthony B'stard 4.4.1.1.2.1

             21 June 2014 at 1:53 pm

             Colonel V, the government is forecast to spend $28 billion on welfare this year, out of $64 billion in crown revenue.

             What would you prefer it be spending?
             • One Anonymous Bloke …

               21 June 2014 at 6:34 pm

               That’s for several reasons – one is the baby boomers getting old – not much we can do about that. Another is that there are always far more unemployed under National, and despite that, dumb crackers who behave like Chicken Little at the mere mention of ‘welfare’ keep on voting for them.

               Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.
             • David H …

               22 June 2014 at 12:19 am

               And the biggest chunk of that welfare bill? Pensions for our aged and it will climb and climb until someone has the balls to lift the age of eligibility.
               • Colonial Viper …

                 22 June 2014 at 2:51 am

                 With all due respect David H.

                 Fuck your neoliberal message of “austerity is the courageous thing to do, there is no alternative.”

                 NZ households have $120B in bank deposits and there are another $200B in managed funds. The reserve bank can issue another billion dollars into the Cullen fund at the snap of the fingers.

                 If you have decided that Super cannot be afforded despite the immense wealth of this nation, and despite its immense productivity, it is because you have made a political decision not to afford it, and you have made a political decision to make cutting Super more important than a land tax on the wealthy, or an FTT on our bloated financial system.at

                 And my words to you are: fuck that, any Labour Party which wants to keep people in an excess labour pool for more years when there aren’t enough jobs around, can go get deservedly fucked.
                 • David H …

                   22 June 2014 at 9:41 am

                   Oh FFS CV Stick that Bullshit where the sun don’t shine.

                   Even the LABOUR party has been talking about raising the age of eligability.

                   So that must make you a Nat supporter because it’s TricKey thats been against raising the age.

                   And he’s me under the misapprehension that you stood for LABOUR.
           • Blackcap 4.4.1.1.2.2

             21 June 2014 at 5:52 pm

             I’m afraid you lose all credibility by attacking me the person and not the issue. I shall therefore not respond to your questions.
             • greywarbler …

               21 June 2014 at 6:27 pm

               Blackcap
               You stand on your dignity. Too dignified to deal with the real issues referred to by CV rather than mouthing the propaganda of the smug and the determinedly ignorant.

               and Anthony BS
               What ideas have you? Do you want others to put theirs up like targets at a fairground for you to knock down to fill in your idle-minded time. Get busy and put your own ideas up to assist with the real problems that are evident to all. All that is who aren’t glued to the info/entertainment on their highly-coloured television walls at home or in the pub.
             • Anne …

               21 June 2014 at 7:41 pm

               You don’t answer the questions because to do so would be to expose yourself for one of the greedy wannabes who don’t care a damm about those less well off than yourself.
           • SNMP 4.4.1.1.2.3

             22 June 2014 at 5:13 pm

             Easy to answer

             1) Under the last Labour Goverment
             2) Under the last Labour Goverment
             3) Under the last Labour Goverment

             These responces are my personal experance
         • fender 4.4.1.1.3

           21 June 2014 at 2:51 pm

           If Cunliffe Key had outright said he will not be doing a deal with Mana/Internet Act/Conservative then maybe just maybe he may have had a bit of credibility.
           • lprent 4.4.1.1.3.1

             21 June 2014 at 5:15 pm

             You forgot the Hair and the Maori party
         • millsy 4.4.1.1.4

           22 June 2014 at 1:36 pm

           What do you have against trade unions? Do you want them banned? Do you want slavery brought back?

           Do you workers to lose their sick leave and holidays?
           Do you want the minumum wage to be slashed?

           What is your opinion of the US health system and do you think it should be replicated here?
     • Lloyd 4.4.2

       22 June 2014 at 12:08 pm

       I think that if you look carefully at the real definition of left and right you will find the Greens are a centre-left party. If you look at National and Act you will find their present policies are generally far-right. Keeping Labour away from following those right-wing neo-liberal economic policies is the only way will avoid a total economic melt-down of the country. A coalition of Labour and National is a guarantee for total electorate turn-off as there would be no economic difference in any possible government.

       The main danger of Mana-Internet is that any economic policy likely to come out of that marriage will be a totally confused mish-mash, with totally confusing outcomes.
5. Once was Pete 5

   21 June 2014 at 8:53 am

   Empty rhetoric! Long on emotion and short on facts. It is this sort of futile ranting that has somewhere between 72 to 78% of voters (if you believe the latest polls) turned off the Labour Party.
   Only the most syncophantic supporters would believe the proposition the the current government maintains the policy that any thing is for sale. Some of the examples you cite can equally be used against Labour eg Mr Liu, and it is a safe bet to say that many Labour voters would have supported the Warner Bros accomodation.
   As for the rest of your hit parade, these were accusations levelled at the Clarke government, and in some instances (eg the Police) there was considerably more evidence to suggest that this was what Labour had actually done. Right wingers are also always bleating about the left wing bias of the press.
   And now the polls are dodgy. Give me a break! For heavens sake this whinging is not reflective of the Labour Party I grew up supporting. That was made of much sterner stuff, and there was then, a more or less stacked deck. Not many people actually believe that anymore. Also, this generation of voters is much more educated than in my day. I honestly, don’t believe the polarising adjectives have much traction with them.
   So, my message to Labour is suck it up, stop the ranting and start getting some half way decent policy out there. Because right now there is no reason for voters to turn away from National. I want to see some grand vision from Labour that can inspire me and point the way forward. All we have had so far is ill conceived and ill prepared policy anouncements that have been killed stone dead within a day or two.
   I have come to see Labour as just as bad as National in protecting vested interests. And both are equally bad.
   So I am sorry, but the message contained in this post wont do it for me, but I am sure it will find a lot of support from some who like this sort of stuff.
   • Colonial Viper 5.1

     21 June 2014 at 1:36 pm

     And both are equally bad.

     No, National’s belief in crony capitalism is far worse.

     Why? Because National will sell out the entire nation for 30 pieces of silver. Whereas Labour will only lend it out.
     • Grantoc 5.1.1

       21 June 2014 at 3:59 pm

       Colonial, either wittingly or unwittingly, you’ve just proved ‘Once was Pete’s’ point.

       It’s nonsense to emotionally rant that that “National will sell our entire nation for 30 pieces of silver”.

       Slogans like this are not going to get Labour elected. They might stir the hearts of a few sad old lefties, but the rest of the country will just turn over and go back to sleep (and vote National)
       • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1

         21 June 2014 at 4:03 pm

         grantoc, I’m betting that you’re wrong.

         But if you are right, National will win, so you can be happy
       • Tautoko Viper 5.1.1.2

         21 June 2014 at 4:21 pm

         Grantoc, can you explain what policies of National make you want to vote for them?
6. Jrobin 6

   21 June 2014 at 9:00 am

   And as for BM the racist apologist for a corrupt semi dictatorship, why would readers of this excellent post take anything you say seriously? Your arguments just restate the personality politics of the right who want to persuade voters we now elect govts using a Presidential electoral system. All the parties you dismiss are more than their leaders and all have policies that are concerned with NZ sovereignty and local issues. If you want to vote in the American system, feel free to leave tomorrow.
   • Wayne 6.1

     21 June 2014 at 4:55 pm

     Jorbin,

     Which country is this corrupt semi dictatorship. It is obviously not NZ, since on just about every international measure of good government, we are in the top 5 or so.

     Or is every country on the planet, a corrupt semi dictatorship, and the lower down the scale the more corrupt and dictatorial.
     • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1.1

       21 June 2014 at 5:06 pm

       What do you make of the Law Society informing the UN about your party’s human rights abuses Dr. Mapp?
     • Mike the Savage One 6.1.2

       21 June 2014 at 11:40 pm

       In other countries it is called corruption, in New Zealand it is called “old boys network” or “old boys and old girls network”, “you scratch my back, I scratch yours”, “networking”, “mates rates” and “business”.

       Like in business, most in politics know each other, and as parties can get funding from big and not so big business, from lobbyists and private donors freely and easily, networks and ties exist between politicians in governments, where they certainly will to some degree look after each other.

       It is all done on acceptable terms, and with handshakes and the usual “formality”, and much is also tax exempt.

       So do not pretend this is such a “clean” and “honest” and “transparent” society here, it is as corrupt as many others, maybe not the Middle Eastern, Southern Asian or Latin American way, but New Zealand is having enough corruption, that is simply covered up well, as the participants make sure it looks tidy and does not get exposed.

       John Key is in into it, Judith Collins is into it, Maurice Williamson is into it, Stephen Joyce is into it, many of them are, and one must be fair, there will be such amongst the Labour MPs as well.
     • North 6.1.3

       22 June 2014 at 9:09 am

       Be honest Wayne…….you know well the corruption of ‘connectedness’. You know very well individuals who are its beneficiaries.
7. Charlieboy 7

   21 June 2014 at 9:13 am

   Yep, this is it.Forget all the sideshows and media kissing Keys backside,it is now time to make a stand.Be very afraid of three more years of the Natz.
   I am encouraging all my friends and family to vote Labour.
   Take your blinkers off and see the New Zealand we once knew is being destroyed forever by the Big Brother Natz.
8. karol 8

   21 June 2014 at 9:19 am

   Yep. I’ll be supporting the Greens:

   Their collaborative, community-supporting values,

   and policies aimed at sustainable, quality lives for all Kiwis.
9. Adrian 9

   21 June 2014 at 9:51 am

   I have 3 kids at varsity and I do not want them under ANY future obligation that they are to be at the mercy of a ( awful Americanism ) ” first responder” “best friends” adventurism run from Washington.
   Intervention should only be after a considerered discussion at UN level, otherwise we will be unequivicly expected to partake in any minor slight that the US takes exception to.
   This has to be resisted and overturned at every level.
   Write to your local paper, most in this country don’t read the big ones but everybody gets a local giveaway.
   This is a dramatic aboutface on our foreign relations strategy .
   • karol 9.1

     21 June 2014 at 9:55 am

     Yes. Key has been taking us further and further into the US Empire. People need to wake up and learn about what’s happening. It’s not good for the future of the country or its people.
     • MrPip 9.1.1

       21 June 2014 at 10:45 am

       Have you ever read a post that contains “People need to wake up and learn ” and though well that’s a reasoned statement?
       • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.1

         21 June 2014 at 2:47 pm

         Have you ever made a well thought out point in your life? If not, this is a great time to wake up and learn.
   • Blackcap 9.2

     21 June 2014 at 12:15 pm

     Why should I pay for your 3 kids at varsity. How selfish of you.
     • weka 9.2.1

       21 June 2014 at 1:49 pm

       Adrian didn’t say anything about paying for his kids’ education. Did you even read past the first six words?

       Besides, you aren’t paying for anyone’s education, the state does that (or should do). That you don’t understand the difference says more about your own perceptions of fairness and selfishness than anything else.
     • Colonial Viper 9.2.2

       21 June 2014 at 2:48 pm

       Why should I pay for your 3 kids at varsity. How selfish of you.

       Cluetip for novices: it’s you being the selfish one here.
     • anker 9.2.3

       21 June 2014 at 4:38 pm

       CBlackcap at 9.2cause maybe they will be Dr’s or lawyers or IT gurus etc, etc, etc, who will benefit our country and economy and pay for your pension…………BTW who paid for your schooling?????
10. chris73 10

    21 June 2014 at 10:25 am

    Crime down, employment up and the economy moving along nicely which is why National will be returned to power. The tide will go out on National but it won’t be at this election.
    • freedom 10.1

      21 June 2014 at 10:55 am

      I would like to add to chris73’s erudite list that the cheques in the mail, diet coke helps you lose weight and Mike Hosking is an unbiased bastion of truth.
      • chris73 10.1.1

        21 June 2014 at 10:58 am

        I could add some of Cunliffes words of wisdom when it comes to telling the truth but really we all know hes “economical” with the truth 🙂
        • karol 10.1.1.1

          21 June 2014 at 11:04 am

          yeah, that’s another one to add to freedom’s list,

          also, John Key is “honest”, “rockstar economy”, there is no reason for anyone not to have a job that wants one….
        • freedom 10.1.1.2

          21 June 2014 at 11:07 am

          that’s so funny chris73 I forgot to laugh, but seriously I thought you were heralding the government’s grand achievements but if you want to make this about a party leader’s truthiness ….. nah i’m guessing you don’t want to do that, you’ll be grumpy all weekend
          • chris73 10.1.1.2.1

            21 June 2014 at 4:03 pm

            Actually I would like that very much because for the last 6 years the left have tried to depict JK as shonkey, untrustworthy etc etc yet theres never much of anything in the papers about it yet Cunliffes only been leader of the opposition for 9 months but the public are certainly learning about his brain fades

            Theres a reason Labours slipping the polls and its probably because they’re getting to know the real Cunliffe
            • freedom 10.1.1.2.1.1

              21 June 2014 at 10:40 pm

              my head hurts
              and I could probably keep goldfish in my desk’s new dent
              • One Anonymous Bloke …

                22 June 2014 at 12:29 pm

                Much better to keep them between Chris’ ears, thereby doubling his IQ.
            • Puddleglum 10.1.1.2.1.2

              21 June 2014 at 10:47 pm

              It’s a funny old world chris73.

              On the one hand the left are apparently shooting themselves in the foot by constantly making negative attacks on Key and National.

              On the other hand, as you say, negative attacks on Cunliffe are all over the papers and have ensured that the public are “getting to know the real Cunliffe”.

              Anyone with a curious mind might wonder what’s going on.
    • North 10.2

      22 June 2014 at 9:22 am

      For more go to Chris73LicksArseBetterThanKey.Com

      Oh No ! Q+A – Dr Raymond and Character-Caller-Boag. Fuck. She’s found something OUTRAGEOUS. Oh it’s about Iraq, of which she knows SOOOO much. Robert Reid doing her dinner like the dog she is.

      Wonder when we’re gonna wake up to news of ‘Dame Dog Dinner’ ? For services to ShonKey Python.
    • Lloyd 10.3

      22 June 2014 at 12:18 pm

      Crime is down because of the previous Labour government’s welfare and education policies. The benefit to a country of equitable welfare and education policies are gained several years down the track.

      I predict the present negative policies will start causing negative crime statistics in the next three years or so……
11. Richard Foulkes Jnr 11

    21 June 2014 at 10:38 am

    Theres nothing wrong with NZ democracy IF we all realised the power of the vote. When all kiwis decide to get along and its easy enough to want to right? We can do miracles together.Just imagine 100% enrolling to vote and that amount of people getting to vote for their PRIME MINISTER…Their MPS..the whole country democrafied….MORE Maori Pacifica Asian Afro Politicians. NO Suicides, NO Drunk driving deaths..AN INCREASE in MENTAL HEALTH FUNDING…IT WILL HAPPEN..RIGHT?????
12. weka 12

    21 June 2014 at 10:42 am

    Good summary blue. It raises the issue of how to take that message to the wider non-voters who haven’t been following the politics. Is it enough to point out how shit NACT are and encourage them to vote them out? I know there is this idea that the left should focus on the positive and I agree that Labour in particular need to keep on with promoting their policy as the main thing they do. But maybe those of us outside the parties can push the ‘let’s get rid of the bastards and give the other lot a chance’ meme, and then follow that up with what the left are doing right.
    • MrPip 12.1

      21 June 2014 at 10:49 am

      Bingo to this! How about focus on the policy and the benefits, pointing fingers over matters that really have little interest or effect on the missing or lazy voters is what will get you to the line. You can’t throw stone ad infinitum and not expect some reaction, regardless if you think your attacks are valid and bringing things to account, you have to maintain the same level of account. You might also ask why is the Green party by and large don’t find themselves embroiled on the receiving end of any gutter politics. (Well aside that they sit there hoping to hoover up middle of the road votes).
13. Jrobin 13

    21 June 2014 at 10:43 am

    Crime down, are you joking? Dd you not read the news lately? Why then is there so much concern over domestic violence, child abuse, murdering of dairy owners, rising violence from drunk teenaged boys? Are you in a parallel universe or perhaps sleeping chris73
    • chris73 13.1

      21 June 2014 at 10:49 am

      Rather than rely on sensationalist headlines you need to gather more information, try this:

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11230189

      “Statistics New Zealand Criminal figures for the year showed offences dropped by 4.1 per cent in the last calendar year, with 15,602 fewer crimes recorded last year than in 2012.”
      • joe90 13.1.1

        21 June 2014 at 11:21 am

        Of course there are fewer recorded crimes – things have never been easier with thousands of emergency calls to police abandoned, hundreds of non-sworn clerical staff dumped, fleet numbers cut and still no secure communication.
      • Stephanie Rodgers 13.1.2

        21 June 2014 at 12:01 pm

        “recorded” being the operative word.
      • anker 13.1.3

        21 June 2014 at 4:45 pm

        Chris @13.1Crime has dropped internationally it is nothing to do with National. There is good evidence that this is to do with demographics. The number of men aged between 18 – 24 has dropped. The same thing happened in New York for the same reason. You need to read beyond the headlines to really understand what is going on.
    • BM 13.2

      21 June 2014 at 10:59 am

      The news is more interested in sensationalism than facts.

      Unless you actually look at the crime figures which shows a steady decrease in crime over the last 10-15 years, you’d be under the impression that you’d have to be a complete mad man to leave the house without putting on a suit of armor and carrying a very large sword.

      The media’s job is not to inform but to entertain, if you want the honest truth you have to go look for it yourself.
14. swordfish 14

    21 June 2014 at 11:07 am

    True, Blue, true (if I can put it that way) – but, unfortunately, there won’t be too many non-voters reading The Standard.

    National, of course, are counting on voter apathy – especially among younger people who, according to the polls, disproportionately favour the Left and a change of government (see my latest demographic breakdowns from the Fairfax/Stuff-Ipsos Polls (February/May/June) here. http://sub-z-p.blogspot.co.nz/2014/06/fairfax-ipsos-poll-february-2014.html ..)

    (1) Problems

    Leading New Zealand political scientist and psephologist, Prof Jack Vowles (see ‘Down, Down, Down: Turnout in New Zealand…’) places an emphasis on two key factors:

    (a) A widespread perception that the Election will be closely fought (and, therefore, that one’s vote will make a difference)
    and
    (b) A widespread perception that a consistent and clear ideological/policy gap exists between the major parties and hence that the result actually matters and has real practical consequences.

    If, conversely, the Election appears to be a foregone conclusion (even if it isn’t in actual fact – a la 2008 and, to a somewhat lesser extent, 2011 – thanks to FPP-style media headlines like ‘Labour is Dog Tucker’) and if the main parties’ policies and broad ideological direction seem to converge then that, of course, can have a quite devastating impact on turnout.

    Unfortunately, at the moment the widespread perception fuelled by the MSM is the polar opposite of (a) – a seemingly relentless narrative that a National victory is almost inevitable – All Over Bar the Shouting.
    And whether or not (b) exists is highly debateable. Labour really needs to give working people and beneficiaries – arguably still its core electoral base (particularly given a sizeable liberal urban middle-class swing to the Greens at the last election) – a good reason to vote.

    (2) Hopes

    I’m hoping (against hope ?), however, that:

    (1) Labour is able to utilise this sophisticated software package we’ve been hearing about – capable, so we’re told, of precisely identifying the voters and previous non-voters Labour needs to win, particularly those former Labour voters who sat out the 2011 election (apparently something similar to the computer software that proved so crucial to both the Obama presidential campaigns). They’re apparently fairly confident that these 200,000 or so can be identified, contacted and re-engaged as electors come election day. But persuading a reasonable chunk of the 800,000 who abstained last time to vote Labour in 2014 is gonna be a huge logistical task. For this sort of major get-out-the-vote operation, you really, of course, need significant funding and a whole army of experienced on-the-ground election volunteers, quite apart from the morale and motivation dependent on (a) and (b) above. (I know Labour’s membership numbers are up but I’m not sure they’re up by quite that much).

    (2) Also hoping that the IMP can fulfil its historic mission of mobilising as many first-time and previously abstaining voters as possible. There are what ? – about 400,000 or more New Zealanders in the 18-24 age group. And although my gut feeling is they’ll be lucky to top 3.5%, I’d like to think that .Dotcom’s political apps/communication strategies/significant war-chest will give the IMP a reach and a level of sophistication that might just surprise us all. It’d be great if they could mobilise a whole swathe of young erstwhile non-voters (with Harawira or Sykes, of course, winning their electorate). But the fact is they’re not doing particularly well in the polls at the moment – not much different to Mana’s pre-IMP ratings. Hopefully they’ll get going in the near future.
    • weka 14.1

      21 June 2014 at 11:38 am

      Will polling companies be even reaching many of those likely to vote IMP? If they are currently non-voters would they bother talking to a poller? Isn’t it what’s going to happen over the next few months that will turn them into people that would show up on a poll as an IMP voter?

      (as an aside, I assume that on the voting papers the party will be listed as IMP. I’ll be interested to see how the IMP manages that over the next few months given they’re campaigning separately as well).

      “about 400,000 or more New Zealanders in the 18-24 age group.”

      Do you know what percentage are non-voters and first time voters?

      The GP aren’t slouches in getting voters out either, and I saw something recently about them going for the overseas vote which has worked well in their favour in the past.
      • Lanthanide 14.1.1

        21 June 2014 at 1:00 pm

        It will appear as “Internet Mana Party” for the party vote, and Internet Party for the electorate vote.

        I suspect that putting “Internet” ahead of Mana was a very specific decision by the leadership to ensure they could maximise their new voters.
        • karol 14.1.1.1

          21 June 2014 at 1:06 pm

          Also, Mana is going strongly for some electorates, while IP is all about its list.
      • swordfish 14.1.2

        21 June 2014 at 2:37 pm

        “Do you know what percentage (of 18-24 age group) are non-voters and first time voters ?”

        Non-Voters by Age-Group at the 2008 and 2011 Elections

        Age

        18-24……….2008 40%,………2011 42%

        25-44……….2008 27%,……….2011 26%

        45-64……….2008 10%,……….2011 13%

        65 + ………..2008 6%,…………2011 5%

        Not sure about first time voters. Probably no more than 25% of 18-24 year olds (if the definition is newly-eligible voters).
    • Wayne 14.2

      21 June 2014 at 5:03 pm

      Of course the MSM theme of the inevitability of a National win is also a big worry to National. It could result in National leaning voters not bothering to vote because it is seen to be in the bag.

      So if Labour can make the election transparently competitive, it will also help to mobilize the National vote.

      There is a lot of evidence that National suffered from the MSM inevitability effect in 2011, since the turnout in the strongest National seats was lower than in 2008. And that is illustrated in the turnout figures for 45 to 65 age group in swordfish’s post.
15. Rodel 15

    21 June 2014 at 11:08 am

    Notice how the Nats in this blog in writing their opinions make it appear that they are facts..
    e.g. ” crime down…employment up.”… .”facts are”..etc. ad nauseum.

    I have right wing friends who do this all the time . Some are just outright propagandising (lying) but I realise that most actually believe that their opinions are based on evidence but never sure about where the evidence lies.
    .When confronted and challenged about evidence its quite funny to watch their reactions.
    • Lanthanide 15.1

      21 June 2014 at 1:02 pm

      It’s true of the ‘great unwashed’ that favour any particular party. They will repeat slogans without understanding the evidence behind them and will react poorly when challenged. It just happens that at the moment the ‘great unwashed’ are much more likely to support National than Labour.
    • Anthony B'stard 15.2

      21 June 2014 at 2:00 pm

      The employment rate has been increasing over the last 12 months – are you disputing that?

      Its now the same as Australia’s, even though the unemployment measures they use are designed to hide their real rate of around 10%.
16. Jrobin 16

    21 June 2014 at 11:12 am

    The manipulation of statistics is a feature of Neo Liberal governments world wide. For instance if you are really interested in informed comment read up on Health reforms in Britain, where it has been revealed that omissions and manipulation of data was used to encourage privatisation and run down public health funding. Under Cameron statistics are regularly used in an Orwellian manner, another example he re edited his own recorded speeches and had Google delete and edit them because they revealed his flip flops and hypocrisy. There are many examples of this in Neo con governments if you read The Guardian or watch Aljazeera, don’t stereotype all media, just because New Zealand is owned by Fairfax and corporate lobbyists.
17. Will@Welly 17

    21 June 2014 at 11:16 am

    Lets vote National! – yeah right! Hang on, we did, back in 1984, when we elected Douglas & co into power in the Lange Government.
    The deceit of those years still lingers. I know. I still can’t fathom, as an ex-Christchurch resident, how the hell David Caygill., an ex-National Party member ended up being elected in St. Albans, or Geoffrey Palmer got Christchurch Central. By his own admission, Labour was the easier option.
    Look at the present day caucus, full of neo-liberals, hanging on from the past. Say nothing, do nothing, and as Mike Williams said so succinctly, the prospect of losing their pay packets might galvanize them into reacting. What a joke. There was a time when being Labour meant something. Being a left-wing politician meant you had principles – not this ragtag lot.
    Mr Key goes to Washington, and you know the whole place is up for sale.
    One time candidate, and now media commentator Josie Pagani went on TV explaining what was wrong with Labour. Really, she was just blowing her own trumpet. Time for her to join her favourite party – the Nats. But her and Fran O’Sullivan are right about one thing – Labour need to get their message out there, not worry about the Nats.
    If you’re sick of my message, its because it’s quite simple. Strategy, strategy, strategy.
    The election is there to be won. Losing it is easy.
18. Colin 18

    21 June 2014 at 11:58 am

    All sadly true Labour needs to stop Grant Ronertson from destroying ever leader
19. infused 19

    21 June 2014 at 12:43 pm

    Where are the /scarc tags?
20. Skinny 20

    21 June 2014 at 1:35 pm

    Labour have done themselves no favours leading into this election by not clearing out dead wood. Old faces like Mallard, Goff, Dyson, Street inspire little public confidence. Goff should have quit after getting rolled as too probably Shearer, and Mallard’s past antic’s when a Minister is off putting to the LP brand, as many people would still harbour a grudge. Looking at the probable new comers from the list is concerning. There should be far more of current MP’s listed above that get shunted out of safe seats for new blood, and ranked in the early 30’s+.

    I have no problems out campaigning talking up other Left party’s if someone dislikes Labour. Far rather getting the vote out than time wasting putting a potential voter off voting altogether.

    I cannot emphasise enough to the L/G party’s that they use the phrase “Ten thousand votes was the difference between a Left or Right Government last election.”

    Regardless of what the wingnuts say the Left are still most likely to win because we will get the vote out when you consider the numbers we have to campaign this election.
    • Rodel 20.1

      21 June 2014 at 11:07 pm

      Skinny
      You have no idea what a superb politican and person Ruth Dyson is.
      She works tirelessly for her constituents right or left. There are many devout Tories in her electorate who give their party vote to National but their personal vote to Dyson as they know and respect quality. Carter eventually gave up trying to unseat her because of this.
21. dimebag russell 21

    21 June 2014 at 4:27 pm

    People know already that john key is getting ready to abandon ship.
    that no longer means he is a spent force.
    if he returns to new york then he will know just how to enforce fiscal discipline and Labour will have some hard choices.
    no lavish and extravagant promises and no loony left.
    the payoff is fair and decent government.
    only Labour can deliver on that.
22. Jenny 22

    21 June 2014 at 4:38 pm

    At the last election, the high non-vote spoke to one important truth – many voters saw no reason to turn out. The media had told them that National would win by a landslide and they either didn’t mind or thouht that one vote wouldn’t make any difference.

    This election is radically different…… [my emphasis J.]

    That’s for sure..

    And not just for the reasons stated above. For one thing, according to the polls the result will be very close and one vote could make a bigger difference than ever before.

    …until recently most of the public polls have shown Labour plus Greens within touching distance of National plus its current allies. I think history suggests that:

    If the total for Labour plus Greens is within about 2% of the total for National and its allies (whichever of ACT, United Future and the Conservatives makes it into Parliament), then it’s actually pretty much a dead heat.

    Gavin White UMR Research “What political polls tell us about the election”

    What this also tells us is that strategic voting will be very important. A party that doesn’t use strategic voting is not serious about gaining or holding office.
23. seeker 23

    21 June 2014 at 6:12 pm

    @Chris73 4.03pm 10.1.1.2.1

    “..for the last 6 years the left have tried to depict JK as shonkey, untrustworthy etc etc yet theres never much of anything in the papers about it ..”

    How true. I wonder why that is – it’s almost as if ‘the papers’ were supporting john key.
    However, this clip was posted by the Herald last April so you can see and hear for yourself key actually lying which I think certainly shows him to be “untrustworthy”.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics-videos/news/video.cfm?c_id=1503464&gal_cid=1503464&gallery_id=131968

    And today we find another hair raising example of his duplicity:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10184624/NZ-welcomed-back-to-spy-network

    but I bet ‘the papers’ won’t make much of it such that if you blinked you’d miss it. Please don’t blink but read the link Chris as you certainly appear to have ‘missed it’ for six years.
    Guess there are some people who will always be taken in by conmen because they are sadly unable to distinguish the ‘bad guys’ from the more wholesome members of the human race. Hope this helps.
    • chris73 23.1

      21 June 2014 at 9:26 pm

      What you don’t seem to get is that people on the right view left-wing parties with the same distaste that people on the left view right-wing parties and as such the ends justifies the means

      Its never about who tells what its about the perception and what the voters think, you and everyone else can post screeds and screeds of links until the cows come home but it won’t change one iota of voting habits out there away from this blog and other blogs

      Hell you may even be right that John Key is the biggest liar and conman that NZ politics has ever seen (hes not of course) but it doesn’t matter because the narrative is that Cunliffe is at best sneaky and at worst a liar

      David Cunliffe is under more scrutiny then John Key for a variety of reasons so he has a choice and that choice is either to engage his brain before he opens his mouth which will starve the msm of easy hits and cause them to look elsewhere for stories or keep going on as he his and make the msms job easy
      • felix 23.1.1

        21 June 2014 at 9:47 pm

        Save your barren and vacuous whaleoil political philosophy for the mouth-breathers, “chris”.

        No one here gives a shit what you don’t think. We have a country to rebuild.
        • chris73 23.1.1.1

          21 June 2014 at 11:21 pm

          You’ll be back in power in 2017 so don’t go getting your hopes up this early
          • felix 23.1.1.1.1

            22 June 2014 at 9:07 am

            Moi? I think you have me confused with someone else. I am not what you are, cretin.
24. Ronnie Chow 24

    21 June 2014 at 7:53 pm

    The first act by virtue of which the State really constitutes itself the representative of the whole of society—the taking possession of the means of production in the name of society—this is, at the same time, its last independent act as a State. State interference in social relations becomes, in one domain after another, superfluous, and then dies out of itself; the government of persons is replaced by the administration of things, and by the conduct of processes of production. The State is not “abolished.” It dies out.
25. dave 25

    21 June 2014 at 8:24 pm

    ive out door knocking around few state areas in the last couple of weeks
    there one thing i am telling them this time round your voting to keep a roof over your head its not scare tactics its true.
    i tell them John doesn’t want you to vote he want you to stay at home don’t let the bastard win!vote
    • Harry Holland 25.1

      22 June 2014 at 8:55 am

      Yeah. Talking to folks I’m hearing that “there’s no point since National will win anyway”. This is the dream scenario for the Nats. To counter this the left needs to tack the turn-out-and-vote message onto the end of every other message. “Change the Government – turn out and vote”.
26. upandcomer 26

    21 June 2014 at 9:39 pm

    You still don’t get it. This is all the same stuff from the first time around. National are winning because they now own health, education and the economy. Labour is just beset by this weird focus on manufacturing dirt. Now the media aren’t in Helen’s pocket – conspiracy. Now that the public service is gratefully allowed to be neutral – that equals partisanship, after the disgraceful takeover of the public service by Labour a last Madeline Setchell. As for money? Labour Will take it from wherever they can find it since they cant just steal public money from opposition, but apparently can’t record it sometimes.
27. dimebag russell 27

    22 June 2014 at 1:48 pm

    national will not win.
    they have had their ‘turn’ and now they must face up to the fact that while they may have stabilised the economy after the GFC they are about to try and lead the country down dangerous paths that it does not want to go.
28. Lorraine 28

    23 June 2014 at 2:06 pm

    THE SOCIAL DISCRIMINATION ON AUCKLAND IS THRIVING

    It is clear that some Aucklander’s think that the better off should not pay taxes to support the poor. They don’t believe higher education should be available to the poor, nor do they think that hospitals should provide treatment to poor people who can’t afford health insurance and would love all benefits except super to be scraped. They consider themselves to be a better class of people than the rest of the not so high earners and especially beneficiaries. I have been shocked at what I have heard come from their mouths re social discrimination. They have well paying jobs and lots of fancy toys and nice homes and cars. They can afford to take themselves off on holiday.
    They usually have no interest in the rest of NZ and it would be fair to say they think NZ stops at the Bombay Hills. Many probably would think it stops at the northern side of the Auckland harbour bridge and north of Albany, except where their holiday homes are.
    Everyone who isn’t as well of as them in their opinion has bought it on themselves no matter those people’s circumstances, cancer and all.
    Once we were an egalitarian society. Now we have class systems especially in Auckland. These people think it ok to outwardly verbally abuse people who are not financial equals or above them.

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