Tuwhera mike 26/07/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, July 26th, 2014 - 132 comments
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132 comments on “Tuwhera mike 26/07/2014”

  1. Jenny 1

    Labour leader David Cunliffe has dropped his objection to appearing in a live televised leaders’ debate with Prime Minister John Key.

    You naughty little boy for daring question us. Now do as you are told

    This surrender is completely the wrong message to give to the electorate.

    This is a betrayal of Maori of Women of every person and group this Right Wing bigot has insulted and mocked.

    Labour has dignified this Right Wing extremist and has handed him an undeserved media platform and have created a media rod for their own backs way beyond this debate.

    With this victory over Labour by TVNZ, voters will be asking is there anything that Labour won’t back down on?

    Through Labour’s subservience Mike Hosking will take the moderator’s chair, and his smug gloating at this personal vindication of his extreme misogynist and Right Wing views on our television screens will make the debate unbearable to watch for many.

    This supercilious wretch is not fit to mediate a kindergarten finger painting contest.

    As he arrogantly treats the debaters (of both sides), as wayward children, the serious issues will become lost, and the debate will be cheapened and trivialised.

    By caving in and agreeing to be part of this farcical circus, Labour has been smacked and smacked down hard and the country knows it.

    No doubt Labour have got an assurance from TVNZ that Mike Hosking will act as the benevolent media arbiter, and in so doing, will condescendingly patronise and glaringly favour Cunliffe over Key, to the point of farce, (and beyond).

    As Mike Hosking bathes in his personal magnificence as he smugly tells the Prime Minister to, “Shut up and give Mr Cunliffe a fair go”. the whole country will cringe at the spectacle.

    It doesn’t really matter now what Cunliffe says in the debate, or promises the voters, he has already lost. He will be entering the leaders debate as a crippled loser who needs to be favoured out of charity.

    In giving in to this outrageous imposition by TVNZ, the public can now know for certain, that David Cunliffe and the Labour Party are hostages to the establishment, any assurances that David Cunliffe gives voters in the debate are worth nothing because Labour cannot be relied on not to fold at the slightest pressure from big business, foreign powers, vested interest, oil drillers and yes the media, all those that make up the current establishment.

    No matter how reckless, unjust, or cruel. Any humiliation is bearable, any outrage is excusable.

    From deep sea oil, to massacre in Gaza.

    Labour as the Loyal Opposition Party guaranteed to support the establishment.

    The only question left is what will be their next back down?

    • Jenny 1.1

      This is all so terribly disappointing Labour had a chance to put these media Czars in their place and fluffed it.

      Now I fear by empowering the Right, Labour have permanently damaged the media discourse in this country.

      They should have stuck to their guns.

      Now we will be forced to accept this unbalanced Right wing harpy as a serious media commentator on our nations TVs for the foreseeable future.

      • Lefty 1.1.1

        Labour has had plenty of chances to reform the media environment when it has been in government.

        It chose to continue with the corporate profit making model for publicly owned television and radio so can hardly complain when its drive to extract dividends rather than deliver quality broadcasting results in the likes of Hoskings reigning supreme.

        Rather than making fools of themselves by empty threats to boycott they should have promised reforms of publicly owned media that would lead to them focusing on providing the public with the best possible information on local and international events combined with a range of points of view and expert analysis from people who know what they are talking about.

        The trouble is if they did that even more people would realise how fucked their precious capitalism is.

        • greywarbler 1.1.1.1

          Jenny the views of everyone who is interested in the left are being put forward and going into the petition as well. Now it is time to stop the consciousness-raising and get positives-raising behind the strong David Cunliffe that we have. And facilitate and enable him as much as possible.

          Much of the media’s approach is unfair and unbalanced and we know that they will go off in the lifeboats and leave the rest of the country dealing with the aftermath if anything goes awry. So we must deal with that thought and make sure that we make our firm stand on firm ground and just keep on with positive action that advances Labour.

        • Once was Tim 1.1.1.2

          3rd attempt!
          +100 @ Lefty.
          I submitted a comprehensive response but it disappeared up its own arse (went into a black hole). Somehow I doubt moderation but I’ll wait and see.

          Still … it’s what an interloper probably deserves – it’s just that I hope this site isn’t becoming part of the Xero phenomenon.

          Time is tight and opinions are cheap it seems these days (especially when one is competing with a well financed brigade of trolls).

          Time for a nanna knap

      • Clemgeopin 1.1.2

        I disagree with your points. It would have hurt Cunliffe and Labour more as weak if Hosking was removed at this stage as the issue was in the open rather than behind the scenes.

    • BM 1.2

      He did rather snooker himself with this previous comment.

      Labour leader David Cunliffe told NewstalkZB in April that he would be happy to debate Prime Minister John Key “anytime, any place, anywhere, I’ll even do it on Mike Hosking’s show.”

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11299118

      • felix 1.2.1

        What a pity John Key was too chicken to turn up.

      • mickysavage 1.2.2

        Well he didn’t. This issue shows is another media beat up. Labour complains about a clearly inappropriate choice for moderator of the debates and the media then converts into a “Cunliffe won’t show” discussion. How about we debate the appropriateness of Hosking being the moderator.

        • BM 1.2.2.1

          I have no problem with Hosking.
          I have no problem with Campbell.

          Christ, Key has had to put up with that asshat Campbell and his sycophantic greenie/dotcom bullshit, you don’t see him moaning about it.

          Best thing for Cunliffe is just to suck it up, get on with it and show that he’s got the goods.

          • McGrath 1.2.2.1.1

            Cunliffe has come across as cowardly from all of this. Here was his golden opportunity to go in there against (perceived) adversity and nail everyone with his oratory. Instead he threatened Hosking with a dossier of naughty words & phrases… What was he thinking!!!

            • Weepus beard 1.2.2.1.1.1

              He was probably thinking about the desperate poverty so many kiwis find themselves mired in. He was probably thinking about how he can turn around NZ’s steady descent into an American model of education, health, and insurance.

              He was probably distracted by human concerns. Something which Mike Hosking has not bothered with for a long time.

              • Populuxe1

                Here’s a thought. Maybe he can think about all that AFTER he gets elected when he’s in a position to do something about it. Just a thought.

                • McFlock

                  are you seriously stating that someone can only be elected if they don’t obviously think and care about poverty and turning the country around?

          • mickysavage 1.2.2.1.2

            You and McGrath are obviously following the Slater approach to blogging. Invent some shit, and keep repeating said shit ad nauseum in the hope that other people will also believe in said shit.

            • Clemgeopin 1.2.2.1.2.1

              They, like Slater and Crosby/Textor, have leaned that from the techniques of Paul Joseph Goebbels.

        • Dumrse 1.2.2.2

          It must pain you to acknowledge and talk about the real problem.

    • Mike 1.3

      Give Hoskings all the rope he needs.

      As New Zealanders become poorer due to the divisive Marxist practice of Free Trade, Elitists like Mr Hoskings will find themselves subject to more and more raw hatred.

      Mr Hoskings is yet another Marxist who believes men and women are somehow equal. To anyone with brains, this is absurd. Any culture who does not value women more highly than men is doomed.

      • BM 1.3.1

        Why should Women be more valued then Men?

        What a bizarre comment.

        • felix 1.3.1.1

          Why don’t you ask your pretend wife? When she’s finished the pretend housework, of course.

      • phillip ure 1.3.2

        whoar..!..hosking a ‘marxist’..?

        ..he hides it well…

        • Mike 1.3.2.2

          Free trade destroys local industry. Lets see what Karl Marx had to say about free trade.

          “But, generally speaking, the Protective system in these days is conservative, while the Free Trade system works destructively. It breaks up old nationalities and carries antagonism of proletariat and bourgeoisie to the uttermost point. In a word, the Free Trade system hastens the Social Revolution. In this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, I am in favor of Free Trade.”

          http://mailstar.net/classwar.html

          While that is nice for utopians, in practice, in reality, it causes a lot of anguish and destruction for the working class and their children.

          What do elitists care if our working class and industrial base are destroyed? They are rootless cosmopolitans; much like the cockroach and the rat, they would be happy to live anywhere. “Free trade” they cry, but how many of them even know a trade?

          As for women being more valuable than men, that should be obvious.

          Indolent, arrogant men could be replaced by a small pool of breeding males, with very little loss to society, and a massive drop in violence and domestic abuse. Women can now do everything men can. While lazy New Zealand men sit around playing shooting games, women defend our country and serve in our armed forces.

          We New Zealand males are becoming redundant. Lets show that we are worth keeping around.

          • phillip ure 1.3.2.2.1

            yes yes..i know that marx predicted pretty much everything that is happening now..

            ..(and that is fascinating in its’ own right..)

            ..aside from the obvious civil liberties issues..yr ‘pool of breeding males’ idea does have much to recommend it..

            ..the only problem is perfecting a fool-proof/fail-safe boofhead/should-not-breed detector..

            ..and of course..such a detector should also be able to grade women..

            • Mike 1.3.2.2.1.1

              Liberties must be curtailed for the greater good, comrade. A strong Dictatorship of the Proletariat may well be required.

      • Paul 1.3.3

        Best word to describe Hoskins.
        A popinjay

        pop·in·jay [pop-in-jey]
        noun
        1. a person given to vain, pretentious displays and empty chatter; coxcomb; fop.

      • millsy 1.3.4

        This folks, is a rare example of a ‘paleo-conservative’.

        • Mike 1.3.4.1

          Not at all. I am in no way against a strong government, or for a treasonous insurrection to “retake the New Zealand Constitution”.

          There is no way we can return to limited government. Our people have been debased by decades of “liberty”. To attempt to remove a lot of state support, and guidance, like several idiot parties are advocating would be nothing less than a return to anarchy and slaughter. It is a survivalists fantasy.

          Perhaps these libertarian anarchists see themselves holed up in their mansions, firing their rifles at the Walking Dead that come pleading for food and water. “You should have worked harder!” they scream as they shovel shells into the breech.

          No, comrades, the way of the future is a mixed economy, in a morally conservative society. Already Premiere Putin, leader of the Free World has banned swearing in movies, and the promotion of perverse lifestyles to children. The bourgeois agendas of the left and right do not fool him. He knows what is good for the working class.

          I say we follow his lead.

      • McGrath 1.3.5

        Have to agree with BM on this one. That’s an odd comment and reinforces why Labour has only 1 male vote in 5.

        [lprent: Read the about. This site isn’t just for the Labour party. After all we let unthinking morans from the right like yourself write here. Read the policy about attributing motives to this site that don’t exist.

        I get irritated by pinheaded fools being dumbarses about the site. Banned for a week to give you time to read the pages. Let me know if you need more time. ]

      • Murray Olsen 1.3.6

        Aw Mike, to anyone with brains, your comment is absurd. I have no idea where you get your idea of Marxism from, but it’s not the commonly held one.

    • Tom Jackson 1.4

      I guess it was pointless to complain in the first place, since Cunliffe can’t really avoid having to debate, but Key can.

      Lord, I wish this stupid, pointless, pre-determined election was over and done with.

      • Paupial 1.4.1

        TJ

        This election may seem stupid to you, but it is neither; pointless, nor pre-determined. The party representation proportions will be significantly changed once the votes are counted. Even if you believe that the next parliament will be; Nat-led, rather than Labour-led, the coalition agreement and private member bills submitted to the ballot over the next parliamentary term will differ.

        Just because it looks like you may not win is not a reason to stop trying.

      • greywarbler 1.4.2

        @Tom Jackson 9.33
        It’s an ironic position when you care a lot about what you think is going wrong, and turning out badly, and then you help to bring this about. So why don’t you step back now you have made the comment about being pointless etc. That won’t change anything for the better except it provides a warning of possible outcomes we should keep in mind.

        We now are in the situation where if one can’t say anything good, it’s better to say nothing at all. Don’t be a Cassandra any more! Just drop a bit of positive in if you see something that sparks an approving thought. I think it is good advice I am giving and I must follow this myself. And I advise all other lefties and Standardistas to adopt the same thing.

        Don’t diss anyone except people like that sneaky cur that was supposed to have supplied goss to a journalist. But we don’t know if that was true anyway. What a good idea for one of these corkscrew jonos to make it up. He/she can’t reveal their sources, and seeing they don’t have any personal code of integrity and their employers are leaders in the art of sly obfuscation, the goss leak may not even have happened, probably just a song at twilight from a twilight lurker-writer’s head.

        • greywarbler 1.4.2.1

          My comment won’t let me edit even though there is lots of time. I just checked on Cassandra to refresh myself.
          Wikipedia on Cassandra. In their image she looks as if she is tearing her hair out!
          [Apollo] he gave her the curse of never being believed. In an alternative version, she fell asleep in a temple, and snakes licked (or whispered in) her ears so that she was able to hear the future..(Ha ha snakes whispering into jonos’ ears – how apt, the apse slides in and out of our myths and beliefs.)

          • lprent 1.4.2.1.1

            I was doing some replication work on the databases this morning getting the backup server at home on fibre running. Could have been causing issues.

            I try to do this type of work on saturday morning as it is the quietest period on the site during the days and I’m not really that keen on doing it in the middle of the night anymore.

            • greywarbler 1.4.2.1.1.1

              @lprent 5.09
              Thanks. What you have set up seems to be handling the increased traffic well.

    • Ant 1.5

      It made Labour and Cunliffe look petty and weak – and all the talk about the folder of Hosking quotes… that sounded like Mitt Romeny’s binder.

      No doubt Key will bring it up during the debate.

    • Bearded Git 1.6

      With respect disagree Jenny. TVNZ would never have backed down and Labour have made the point splashed over all of the MSM that Hoskin is a biased idiot.

      It was time to get on with policies and not keep fighting this distraction.

      • McFlock 1.6.1

        agreed. And Hosking has to be on good behaviour, because if he is too obviously biased then he can be called on it during the debate or after it.

        • Clemgeopin 1.6.1.1

          He can ask tough questions as long as e does to both. He should try and remain neutral and fair. In the end what really decides are the policies and how well the leaders respond during the debate. Cunliffe will need persuasion, conviction, affability as well as aggression and fire at times. He is more than capable of all that. Though in his perceived favour, Key has smile, spin and hyperbole.

    • mikesh 1.7

      Perhaps he should have backed out of the debate and secretly asked Winston to take his place. That would have put John Key and TVNZ in a rather embarassing position.

  2. whew jenny..!..have a (vegan) kit-kat..eh..?

    .i disagree with you..

    ..yes..everything you say about hosking..(and more..)..is true..

    ..but labour blew it by bleating..

    ..cunnliffe should have laughed..pointed out how rightwing hosking is..

    ..and expressed hope that hosking wd be able to keep his far-right beliefs in check..for the course of the debates..

    ..and of course cunnliffe/labour have looked as tho’ their policies/arguments are so weak..

    ..that a trout like hosking can just blow them away/strike them silent..(!)

    ..how is that a good look..?

    ..cunnliffe has to go into these debates with fire in both his belly and his voice…

    ..he has the intellectual/debating-nous to do that..and he has to sell (that much/over-maligned concept)..his/labours’ vision…

    ..if cunnliffe goes into these debates continuing his quest to be everyman for everyone..smiling/nodding his way thru…he will tank/get tanked…

    ..we have seen more than enough of that ‘i’m just a nice/average guy!’ schtick..

    ..we get that..enough already..!

    ..now we need to see that intellectual/political-ideas ‘fire’ …

    ..cunnliffe must demand for his ideas to be heard…

    ..and show he is able to brush the presence of hosking away..

    ..as an irrelevancy..

    ..and that cunnliffe succeeds in this mission..

    ..is becoming more and more important for him/labour..

    • Jenny 2.1

      ..yes..everything you say about hosking..(and more..)..is true..

      Yet I can predict that Labour Party apologists will be arguing here that “Mike Hosking is not so bad”. And the dossier Labour have collected on Hosking’s past outrages will be quietly shelved, never to see the light of day, as David Cunliffe makes his Party’s peace with Mike Hosking and the far Right embedded in the media.

      Peace in our time?

      Yeah right.

      • Anne 2.1.1

        I think you’re wrong Jenny.

        It seemed to me to be quite a clever piece of positioning on Labour’s part. Hoskings is going to have to be very careful he’s fair and balanced after this publicity. One foot wrong….

    • karol 2.2

      I don’t care what Labour had/has to say about Hosking, he is the wrong man person for the job. Why does TVNZ always choose a guy, and a white guy at that? Guyon… etc

      I have been trying to find examples of Hosking’s hate speech. links?

    • reason for labour people to be cheerful..(sort of..)

      ..they have this to look forward to..(from todays’ guardian..)

      “..Kim Dotcom: ‘The Internet party will abolish mass surveillance’..

      ..Tech tycoon believes politicians need to work harder to engage the youth vote –

      • and says ‘internet is the biggest gift of mankind’.

      Dotcom also reiterated his promise that five days before the election – the world will ‘witness a moment of truth’ –

      • at an event alongside Glenn Greenwald – the former Guardian journalist who broke the NSA revelations with Edward Snowden.

      “We’re about to make history” – he said..”

      (cont..)

      (those ok with giving me the click-thru can go here:..

      http://whoar.co.nz/2014/kim-dotcom-the-internet-party-will-abolish-mass-surveillance/

      (or straight to the source..)

      http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/25/kim-dotcom-interview-the-internet-party-will-abolish-mass-surveillance-snowden

  3. Ray 3

    For the first time in quite awhile (4years+) I think the left with Labour as the largest party are going to win this election
    Positive policies and no more infighting is going to carry the day
    The Nats arrogance will be the deal breaker

    • Jenny 3.1

      Let us hope you are right. No more shameful back downs.

    • lprent 3.2

      They are certainly in a better position than they have been for a while. Not that you’d know it from the media. The Greens are focused as hell. Labour has good policies and most of the the people on board. The sense that I got from the NZF conference is that their supporters would prefer to go anywhere else to avoid touching National.

      The only real hassle I see is the IMP supporters spending their time slagging everyone else on the left off. But that is to be expected. It now has the complete concentration of fragile egos who spend less time working on building a party and more on talking about the new miracle to happen.

      • bad12 3.2.1

        LPrent, some facts would be nice, ”The only real hassle I see is the IMP supporters slagging everyone else on the left off”,

        Are you here referring to the general discussions that occur daily at the Standard,???…

        • Chooky 3.2.1.1

          bad12…agreed…i dont see much criticism of David Cunliffe…quite the contrary…there is some suspicion of some in caucus occasionally ( but who isnt a wee bit suspicious ?)

          ….generally IMP is very positive towards a Left coalition govt….their constituency is very young, techy, quite radical …not Labours constituency at all…judging from my Labour voting relatives who are all 50+

        • Paupial 3.2.1.2

          That’s right; both Bad12 & phillip ure are IMP aligned, but I don’t see them throttling back on the robustness of their discourse (or feud, if you will). So it’s not that we focus on; “slagging everyone else on the left off”, as we also go after ourselves, but mostly the Tories!

          This is from a comment about IMPs I made to Chooky [at 5.1] on yesterday’s MS election stats post:

          We are a strangely disparate group from my experience with NZ Politics. I come from a Green (once Labour) background, others from; National, Labour, Maori (through MANA) & NZF Parties. However we seem to building a team where, while we certainly don’t agree about everything; we are committed to working together to change the present corrupt Government.

          • bad12 3.2.1.2.1

            Lolz Paupial, someone half inched your S, you should be more ‘onto it’, have a look at ‘Open Mike’ over the past week?, the ongoing debate between myself and Phillip has definitely ben ‘throttled back’,

            ‘Throttled’ actually as Phillip after our last exchange ”is never,ever, engaging with me again”…

            Ps: insert mad laughter, i would have but the printed version looks a bit ugly…

            • The Al1en 3.2.1.2.1.1

              “‘Throttled’ actually as Phillip after our last exchange ”is never,ever, engaging with me again”…”

              Pick six numbers between 1 and 48 and get down to the lotto shop 😉 :smirk:

              And buy a packet of bacon flavoured kittens for the journey home 😀

              • bad12

                Alien, Mmmm Bacon, ssshhh, i have four pieces in the fridge and they will make my life all that much more worth living on ‘diet days’ Sunday/Monday when i radically reduce the intake in the weight loss effort,(gloat: 88KG this week from 118KG December 2013)…

                • The Al1en

                  Great result that Bad, 88 from 118. keep it up bruv.

                  Maybe just get bacon flavour diet kittens with that lotto ticket.

                  • bad12

                    Alien, Laugh, i have recently been tempted to really stoop for Bad Taste as a stratagem with a discussion of the benefits of rat traps, which i have this week deployed, over rat poison, 3 packets of which i have bought and used in the past six months,

                    Wishing tho to re-invent myself as an admittedly dated adherent to an equally dated philosophy, SNAG, i have decided against discussing all aspects of my current barbarity here…

                    • The Al1en

                      I chase house flies out of doors and windows so I don’t have to spray or whack, so well done on the non discussion of rat traps.

                      Having said that, it does pose problems for vegan environmentalists. Do they kill the destructive rats or possums? If they kill them, what method, a shot to the head or a belly full of poison?
                      If they agree to eradicate, why are they less worthy than beef and lamb? Why can’t I eat bacon if they agree to torture invasive species?

                      It’s a heck of a question for those vegan environmentalists out there.

            • Pasupial 3.2.1.2.1.2

              Bad12

              Ta for the heads up – I don’t need to be more of a pauper than I already am!

              I’ve been a bit busy of late, so missed quite a few Open Mikes, and other posts on TS in the last week or so. Though I seem to remember PU saying that he’d; never engage with certain people again, before, but not managing to follow through. We’ll have to see whether he manages; “never,ever, engaging”, any better.

              • bad12

                Lolz Pasupial, i dare not comment any further on never ever, altho i have to admit that the cessation of hostilities has made ‘Open Mike’ a little bit of a cleaner read this week,

                (And i might add taken a bit of the laughter out of the conversation for me, but, we have to realize that it aint our own private sandpit we are tossing the toys round in)…

                [lprent: indeed ]

                • “..[lprent: indeed ]..”

                  my only comment is that i miss the constant argy-bargy not a jot..

                  ..so see no reason to alter the current status quo..

          • wE3 3.2.1.2.2

            building a team where, while we certainly don’t agree about everything; we are committed to working together to change the present corrupt Government

            And that was the sense I got from hanging around the Internet Party’s “Party Party” tonight/this morning in Dunedin and chatting with many people. A wide range of people came along. There was a good mix in terms of demographics, ethnicities and even ages! Kim Dotcom even caught up with lovely 98yo Aunty Joyce (thanks for the photo, Tat):

            https://twitter.com/Tat_Loo/status/492991223485829120/photo/1

            There is a significant groundswell of feeling to see a change in Government. The mainstream media’s fault-finding and anti-Cunliffe slant is recognised. Support is strong for Cunliffe to lead the new government. To the broader Left and progressive voters, I say: take heart, galvanise your like-minded friends, family and wider network to vote on 20 Sep.

      • The Al1en 3.2.2

        Good summary, especially the bit about fragile egos and the methodology of some mip supporters.
        Like I’ve said before, odd that a 1% party has all the right ideas, but none of the votes.

        An old quote that’s apt – Winners don’t wait for chances, they take them.

        • bad12 3.2.2.1

          Alien, i see you have added a word to LPrent’s quote, the word? Some, as in Some IMP supporters,

          Read as written by LPrent, His comment addressing ”the IMP supporters”, in the plural takes a swipe at all InternetMana Party supporters and is thus the exact same behavior that the comment protests against in relation to ”spending their time slagging off everyone else on the left”…

          • The Al1en 3.2.2.1.1

            I did add the word ‘some’, from my own perspective, thinking it less definitive.
            I know of a couple of mip good sorts who are okay and don’t aggressively attack the rest of the left in order to make political capital in a grandiose manner, so for me, one brush doesn’t tarr all.

            Is that okay?

            • bad12 3.2.2.1.1.1

              Alien, ”is that ok”???, hell everything is ok to me,(until you see the Black note appear at the bottom of your comment that is),

              ”Aggressively attack” my plea is of course guilty as hell with respect to this aspect of commenting, tho personally my defence is that i happily engage on any level, not necessarily ”to make political capital in a grandiose manner” but if the conversation is going to be ‘gutter’ its either my first or second language,

              (As you can see from our polite discussion the other day Alien, we both can stick to a ‘straight debate’ surrounding the facts, just as we both are fully adept at poking our little sharpened sticks metaphorically in each others eyes,

              Probably a big part in our racing for the bottom when the conversation hits the gutter is the ‘shits and giggles’ it generates for us personally as dredging up something wickedly nasty as a retort i would suggest has you laughing like a loon as much as it does me)…

          • Te Reo Putake 3.2.2.1.2

            “…His comment addressing ”the IMP supporters”, in the plural takes a swipe at all InternetMana Party supporters …”

            Hmmm, it could also be read as taking issue specifically with those IMP supporters who slag off the rest of the left.

            “The only real hassle I see is the IMP supporters spending their time slagging everyone else on the left off.”

            Ie, the hassle is those that do slag, those that don’t are no hassle.

            Yours in pedantry,
            TRP.

          • lprent 3.2.2.1.3

            His comment addressing ”the IMP supporters”, in the plural takes a swipe at all InternetMana Party supporters and is thus the exact same behavior that the comment protests against in relation to ”spending their time slagging off everyone else on the left”…

            Point taken. But the contrast between the Labour and Green party activists quietly labouring away at the pre-campaign work and the IMP tactic of slagging off other activists has been particularly striking to me over the last few months.

      • Paupial 3.2.3

        lprent

        “IMP supporters spending their time slagging everyone else on the left off… the complete concentration of fragile egos who spend less time working on building a party and more on talking about the new miracle”

        Am I included in this group you so casually denigrate? I’ve been commenting on the site less than usual precisely because; I’ve been out working on building a party, and facilitating students’ enrollment on the voting register. Sure, our; phillip & Jenny do have their quirks, but I’m sure there are other regular commenters who haven’t yet declared themselves as IMP supporters, who are also offended by your profiling of us.

        Anyway, I agree with Ray that; “the left with Labour as the largest party are going to win this election”, or at least; that we’re still in with a real chance. “Positive policies and no more infighting” seems less likely however – I like Cunliffe and his faction, but am not so keen on others in the Labour Party (the ones who; while in the party, are not of the party).

      • Anne 3.2.4

        The only real hassle I see is the IMP supporters spending their time slagging everyone else on the left off.

        If Harawira’s performance on The Nation this morning is any guide then the answer is the opposite. He was ‘the statesman’ from start to finish. If he keeps that up then its looking good for him and the broader Left.

  4. Jrobin 4

    Is this a shameful backdown? Good strategy closer to truth. Cunliffe has raised the issue and is pragmatic now. He looks reasonable and realistic and Hosking is now aware through the petition, that not everybody loves and admires him. Cunliffe has been relentlessly picked on by all and sundry for months. Give the guy a break, without him the Left are going to sit on the Opposition benches. The only major error he has made was the Trusts earlier this year. The rest is just gossip and trivia, no doubt orchestrated by right wing media gonks. I’m with you Ray, the sea change for our entitled, arrogant and ignorant rulers is on the way.

    • Tigger 4.1

      Agreed. Stop the hand wringing. The public are desperate for light. Plus now it’s Cunliffe vs Key and Hosking. Everyone loves an underdog.

      • Chooky 4.1.1

        ” Everyone loves an underdog”.

        Winston has done very well out of being the underdog!

    • Anne 4.2

      +1 to Ray and Jrobin

    • Karen 4.3
      • 1 jrobin
        We need to stop fighting battles that take the focus off Labour Party policies and keep up the criticism of National Party policies rather than spending all our energy talking about the right wing bias in the media (even though it is the worst it has ever been). Labour were right to complain to TVNZ as Mike Hoskings will have to be a bit more careful than he would have been otherwise, but Cunliffe refusing to take part would be ridiculous. If you think the bullying of Cunliffe by the MSM is bad now it would only get worse if he didn’t turn up for the Leader’s debate.
        I just hope he starts replying to every question about his leadership or disunity or supposed faults with a “I’m here to talk about the policies that are important to NZers, not to talk about trivia.”
    • Ffloyd 4.4

      Agree Jrobin. Nztv and Hosking have been put on notice. Hosking will be careful. He must realise that he will have a very short career when Labour wins if he is not mindful of this fact. His bff key is not going to be around much longer. Cunliffe has had the best of all the interviewers I have seen/heard him interviewed by. I don’t see this being any different.Even with ‘the popinjay’ (thank you Paul) moderating, Cunliffe will make key look like the uneducated playground bully that he is. All squealing and abuse but no substance. Bring it on.

      I do not see Cunliffe’s acceptance as a back down but an inevitability. He has made his point and now it is up to tvnz and Hosking to honour their word of complete impartiality. They will be hung out to dry if they don’t. The whole country will be watching

      • TheContrarian 4.4.1

        “Hosking will be careful. He must realise that he will have a very short career when Labour wins if he is not mindful of this fact.”

        Why? Is it Labour policy to fire and hire broadcasters?

  5. Tautoko Viper 5

    There is a large National party logo on online Stuff political section- not authorised by National Party but it looks like an ad.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/

    Is this allowable???

    • risildowgtn 5.1

      they also advertising on facebook for past couple days and i mean a lot .. so alot of us have complained is misleading and spam 🙂

    • felix 5.2

      I see two of them. The official logo, plus the new “silver fern on black shirt” one that Key launched this week.

      Three if you count the word “national” in bold type and in the official party colours.

      • ianmac 5.2.1

        In Politics -Stuff, a headline reads “John Minto Burns Israeli Flag.” He didn’t of course and didn’t know at the time that a flag had been burnt as the text of the column says.

        • bad12 5.2.1.1

          IF what i seen aired on my TeeVee news last night surrounding the attack by the Israeli army on the UN school is in fact the truth,

          IE: that UN officials had hours befor the shells rained down on that school, a place of refuge for women and children, begged, cajoled, and pleaded with the Israeli’s through direct contact, going so far as to provide them with the GPS coordinates for the location,

          It saddens me to say that the small amount of sympathy i have thus far held onto for the Jewish State has evaporated,

          Perhaps those within the US who openly support such Murder, with industrial efficiency, of children on a daily basis might care to cast around within their own borders for a ‘new promised land’ as such atrocities will in time provoke the need either for the use of weapons of mass destruction by the perpetrators of this ongoing child murder, probably within their own borders, and/or, a new ‘exodus’ of the Jewish people on a Biblical scale…

  6. bad12 6

    Yeah TV, seen that, perhaps Tracey Watkins inordinately extended ability to gush glowingly over Slippery the Prime Minister has dried up and desperate needs have in turn lead to desperate deeds,

    Pretty low life bottom of the barrel Stuff do you not think Stuff.co.nz,???

    i doubt this particular act of electoral bias by Stuff.co will have much effect as its not a hard print news organ that this gauche display appears within,

    Most of us, computer literate to the extent of being able to access that particular site,(and in my case not much more), will probably have already, a long time ago,made our decisions as to which side of the political spectrum we will be voting,

    Still, not a good look, and, another nail in the coffin for the mainstream media of New Zealand, and, Stuff.co can be assured that like the NZHerald, when the pay-walls go up i for one WILL NOT be paying them any of my coin to be subjected to such shit…

    • Ffloyd 6.1

      There was an advertisement the other day on Armstrong’s column of a blue bus in supposed motion with key’s face on the bus and blurb (go #team key or some such thing) which I can’t remember. I commented on it but when I went back it had disappeared.

  7. Penny Bright 7

    Opposed to Iraeli STATE TERRORISM and the murdering of Palestinian little kids and civilians? Want to STAND UP and be counted? Today, Saturday 26 July 2014 – assemble 2pm Aotea Square Auckland. Hope to see a BIG turnout of decent people who are equally outraged at the violation of the most basic rights of Palestinians – the right to life! I’ll be there and encourage as many as possible to please attend and help spread the word. How would YOU like to be a Palestinian in Gaza right now? Penny Bright

  8. bad12 8

    Win,lose,draw, at some point after the September Votes have been counted we are going to have to get into casting our critical gaze upon all the parties of the left with a view to picking out and pointing to just what went right and what went wrong,

    i definitely DO NOT propose to start such a process today, engaging in such behavior at this stage in the cycle being ‘not very helpful’ in terms of unity as the real contest is about to begin,

    However,

    In the case of poor old much maligned Labour who just can’t catch an even break any time anywhere it would seem i would suggest that to see what has been inherently amiss so far in the ‘campaign lead-up’ can be found encapsulated in a TV3 news item aired when David Cunliffe announced the parties election policy on education,

    If you can find this particular video clip, aired the night of the education policies announcement on TV3 news at 6,(sorry my computer literacy leads me not to be able to provide a www), i would suggest that on a number of levels which do not involve the actual policy a number of ‘things’ best described as ‘wrong’ are encapsulated, epitomized, and, exposed within that one short news clip…

  9. this is a must-watch from todays’ trawl..

    ..stephen colbert interviews elon musk..

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/25/elon-musk-colbert_n_5621116.html?ref=topbar

  10. The Lone Haranguer 10

    I was thinking about regional development and house prices ans the Reserve Bank. Largely because I was up in a so called “successful province” the other day (Taranaki) and things looked pretty dead there and the local businesses were saying things were either very tough or totally unreliable – good one day and quiet for the next week.

    RE agents said houses were not selling etc etc etc.

    So why cant the deposit for houses outside of Auckland and Canterbury be at 5% and have it at the 20% in those two provinces? Is it just because “who wins Auckland wins the election?” and to tell them they need a 20% deposit would mean they would vote for the other guys? (If the RB was able to do this, Im sure the Government would still get the blame)

    If that deposit differential could be introduced then maybe we would have more folk looking at the provinces which would help them and with people can come business opportunities.

    Auckland prices are a result of migration – from in NZ and from other countries, and Christchurch’s prices are a result of the earthquakes and the migration in for the rebuild.

    s something like this do-able?

    • millsy 10.1

      The only people in Taranaki doing well are those in the oil and gas industry, and those in farming.

  11. millsy 11

    I see Fran O Sullivan has joined the chorus of calls to raise the pension age.

    Its easy wait 2 more years when you spend your working life either sitting on your ass at your PC (eating chocolate), or flittering from one social function to another on the Auckland cocktail circuit.

  12. Mark 12

    Just took part in “The Reactor” at Scoop. One of the videos to comment on was Johnathon Coleman saying if any minister knew about the FBI investigation of Dotcom, that would have been a massive red flag and he would have never got into New Zealand. Oops, Mr Coleman is in deep poo.

  13. Papa Tuanuku 13

    There’s a poll at the NZ herald on whether apopo should be used in the weather from now on.

    • greywarbler 13.1

      @ Papa TTuanuku 11.16
      Okay – another word learned. Apopo – tomorrow. Tuwhera be open

      And an extra – as an acronym it refers to –
      APOPO is a registered Belgian non-governmental organisation which trains African giant pouched rats to detect landmines and tuberculosis. APOPO’s mission is to develop detection rats technology to provide solutions for global problems and inspire positive social change.

    • bad12 13.2

      Perhaps we should discard the week, as in Te wiki o te reo Maori, Maori language week, dialing the one week out of the year down to one day a month and then at a future point one day a week every week of the year where te reo Maori is promoted…

  14. Clemgeopin 14

    Here is a technical problem for me re the Standard posts. Any suggestions please?

    I am able to post. I do get notices of new TOPICS in my email, but I do not get notices of new posts. Nor do I get ‘please confirm’ notices as I used to get before. This problem has been going on for over a week now.

    While posting a comment, I do tick the two little boxes as usual.

    I have cleared the cookies and restarted the computer a couple of times, but still no luck.

    I tried to login and asked for a now password from ‘word press’, but says, that email does not exist!

    What is the problem and how do I rectify this? Any one know? Thanks.

    [lprent: Should in theory be fixed now for the emails. It was caused by my new fibre installation at home.

    The emails were running out through my smtp server at home, and it took me a while to notice that my outward emails weren’t going outwards. I’d changed ISPs with the UFB install and therefore the onforwarding mail server wasn’t set up. I didn’t notice, I’d also started a new job on Monday so wasn’t at home to send emails.

    Problem was that I only got the UFB installed on the friday before going to the new job after screaming at chorus about being at home for 8 weeks holiday and they hadn’t managed to do the installation while I was available. I got most of the other bits fixed last weekend, but missed the smtp and also my offsite database backups ]

  15. Bearded Git 15

    This is excellent and funny on the Living Wage.

    http://lockerdome.com/tre/6170042811288129/6823146309435156

  16. greywarbler 16

    There is an interesting post from another blog – on why the rich actually need governments – put up by the Irascible Curmudgeon.
    http://theirasciblecurmudgeon.blogspot.co.nz/ He quotes –

    The very rich, F. Scott Fitzgerald famously wrote, “are different from you and me.” Their wealth makes them “cynical where we are trustful,” and makes them think “they are better than we are.” If these words ring true today, perhaps it is because when they were written, in 1926, inequality in the United States had reached heights comparable to today.

    As the University of Michigan’s Mark Mizruchi points out in a recent book, the American corporate elite in the postwar era had “an ethic of civic responsibility and enlightened self-interest.” They cooperated with trade unions and favored a strong government role in regulating and stabilizing markets. They understood the need for taxes to pay for important public goods such as the interstate highway and safety nets for the poor and elderly. Business elites were not any less politically powerful back then. But they used their influence to advance an agenda that was broadly in the national interest….

    Surowiecki thinks that the change in attitudes has much to do with globalization. Large American corporations and banks now roam the globe freely, and are no longer so dependent on the US consumer. The health of the American middle class is of little interest to them these days. Moreover, Surowiecki argues, socialism has gone by the wayside, and there is no need to coopt the working class anymore.

    Yet if corporate moguls think that they no longer need to rely on their national governments, they are making a huge mistake. The reality is that the stability and openness of the markets that produce their wealth have never depended more on government action….

    But when economic storm clouds gather on the horizon, everyone seeks shelter under their home government’s cover. It is then that the ties that bind large corporations to their native soil are fully revealed. As former Bank of England Governor Mervyn King aptly put it in the context of finance, “global banks are global in life, but national in death.”

    I put class comment on Tuwhera last night.

    What will David Cunliffe be accused of next?


    A description of how classes can be listed in our society is:
    Classes:
    . Top out-of-sight
    Upper
    Upper middle
    Middle
    High proletarian
    Mid-proletarian
    Low proletarian
    Destitute
    Bottom-out-of-sight

    These must be condensing though as it was drawn up around 1980s and the changes talked about in Irascible’s post have hit hard and will continue to compress downwards.

  17. greywarbler 17

    @ joe90 1.01
    Great. You produce magically the billboards, promises and satisfying and promising progressive situation in usa 1956.

    Now wave your magic wand and get it to trans-substantiate. Tom Lehrer gives some advice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f72CTDe4-0

    I loved this bit from the Republicans manifesto of which I only read 1/52, (o that by the end of a year I’ll have read the whole thing.) So many grand phrases. It’s so rich that it makes my stomach heave. And so tempting to believe in then, and wish for now. Even though it had important lies and obfuscations in it then.

    But doesn;t this sound nice. I wonder if it has been tried anywhere?
    <i>On its Centennial, the Republican Party again calls to the minds of all Americans the great truth first spoken by Abraham Lincoln: “The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere.”

    Our great President Dwight D. Eisenhower has counseled us further: “In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people’s money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative.”

    • joe90 17.1

      I think The Elements would be useful in any trans-substantiating.

      Anyhoo, Michael Moore on when the rot really set in.

      https://web.archive.org/web/20131117133000/http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/30-years-ago-today

      • greywarbler 17.1.1

        @joe90 1.34
        Tom Lehrer talented and with a presence, and a very fast delivery on The Elements. His elocution teacher must have been good.

        The Michael Moore piece mentioned Wisconsin people protesting.
        I remember Wisconsin Works from Ruthless Richardson’s time also Jenny Shipley (doesn’t Jenny sound a sweet name). WW was a mean-minded set-up that of the type that you would feel they would push people off cliffs if there was a way to collect pay for the trip down.

        Anyway this was interesting from wikipedia about how pragmatic pollies act when a job (that they want to see done) gets pushed through their political forum.

        In January 2011, the state legislature passed a series of bills providing additional tax cuts and deductions for businesses at “a two-year cost of $67 million”.[31]
        In early February, the Walker administration projected a budget shortfall in 2013 (Wisconsin functions on two-year budgets) of $3.6 billion[32] and found that a budget repair bill to resolve a $137 million shortfall for the fiscal year ending June 30, 2011,…
        The Walker-backed bill proposed taking away the ability of public sector unions to bargain collectively over pensions and health care and limiting pay raises of public employees to the rate of inflation, as well as ending automatic union dues collection by the state….
        Protests :
        At 1:00 am on February 25, following sixty hours of debate,[60] the final amendments had been defeated and the Republican leadership of the Wisconsin State Assembly cut off debate as well as the public hearing and moved quickly to pass the budget repair bill in a sudden vote.
        The vote was 51 in favor and 17 opposed, with 28 representatives not voting.[60] The final vote took place without warning, and the time allowed for voting was so short (lasting only 5–15 s)[61] that fewer than half of the Democratic representatives were able to vote; many reportedly pushed the voting button as hard as possible but it did not register.[62] Four Republican representatives voted against the bill.[63]

  18. Morrissey 18

    Which crowded cities can you fire into?
    by JAMES NORTH, Mondoweiss, July 25, 2014
    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/which-crowded-cities.html

    In recent days, many journalists, including Eugene Robinson of the Washington Post and Ronan Farrow on MSNBC, have asked when is Israel justified in attacking crowded civilian settings in order to kill militants. Robinson: “So if you’re an Israeli commander and you know that there’s a Hamas military facility next to a medical clinic, but you’re not completely sure the militants are still there, while the clinic is likely packed with injured civilians, do you still pull the trigger?”

    Over a decade ago, Yonatan Shapira, then an Israeli air force pilot, bravely confronted his top commander, Lt. General Dan Halutz, over what were euphemistically called “targeted assassinations.” Israeli warplanes regularly fired missiles at Hamas leaders in Gaza, also killing innocent civilians, some of them children.

    Shapira asked General Halutz, What if a Hamas leader were located in Tel Aviv? Would you order our pilots to fire there, risking Israeli bystanders? Halutz said no.

    So you value Israelis over Palestinians, Yonatan responded. Get someone else to fly your aircraft.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/which-crowded-cities.html

  19. there is an excellent doco on maori tv @ nine o’ clock..

    ..it’s called ‘dogtown and the z boys’..

    ..and is about the birth of the skateboard culture in california..

    ..has some great footage from way back when..

  20. lprent 21

    Test if the database is now accepting.

    Ok – it is. Kill the old db.

  21. Clemgeopin 22

    Labour leader David Cunliffe has launched his party’s West Auckland campaign and the message is a multicultural team for a multicultural community.

    In front of a roomful of cheering, red-scarf wearing Labour Party members, Cunliffe introduced the candidates for Kelston, Helensville, Upper Harbour, Te Atatu and his own electorate New Lynn.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10314780/Labour-comeback-will-be-a-surprise-Cunliffe

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