Tuwhera mike 25/07/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:19 am, July 25th, 2014 - 167 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

167 comments on “Tuwhera mike 25/07/2014”

  1. mickysavage 1

    Yesterday I posted suggesting that Labour should do nothing about Brownlee’s airport mishap and suggested it was a trivial breach. On reflection I may have jumped the gun. Brownlee managed to avoid going through security and breached security requirements. He may have committed an offence. Rules are meant to be followed by everyone including National Ministers.

    If the investigation shows that he placed undue pressure on the security officer then he does not deserve to be a minister.

    • Gosman 1.1

      What would be deemed undue pressure? Surely by asking to be let through and the security officer knowing his position could classified as such?

      • mickysavage 1.1.1

        The slightest hint of Brownlee pulling rank would be enough. For instance if he said “the rules have changed” to the security officer he should go.

        • Gosman 1.1.1.1

          The very fact he was Transport Minister and the security office knew him is probably enough. The issue here though is he did offer to resign and the PM turned him down. This means Labour will have to attack Key over his reasoning and frankly they haven’t had much luck with that to date. What you should ask yourselves be for pursuing this line is how is this story tracking in the media. If it has caused a bit of a groundswell against the government by all means it makes sense to pursue it. If it is not registering outside the beltway then your original view still stands. Labour would be wasting valuable time and detracting from core messages if they go through with it.

          • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1.1

            What you should ask yourselves be for pursuing this line is how is this story tracking in the media. If it has caused a bit of a groundswell against the government by all means it makes sense to pursue it.

            Or we could apply a set of ethics to it. Point out that nobody is above the law no matter what Key and the National Party thinks.

            • Gosman 1.1.1.1.1.1

              You could do that but if Labour had wanted to make this election about integrity and ethics it should have started before now. Changing how you frame your campaign shortly after you start it isn’t a good idea unless there is a lot of potential support out there. That is why I stated Labour should wait to see whether this issue has media traction or not.

              • Draco T Bastard

                But it won’t get media traction will it? And it’s not a question of if the media cover it or not but if what Brownlee did was wrong – which it was.

              • Pasupial

                Gosman

                Hopefully you Righties will shut up about that Clark driver speeding en route to a rugby game now (3 Labour leaders and nearly a decade ago).

                Brownlee was transport minister at the time (still is, though supposedly has; “asked for responsibility for CAA to be transferred to his associate minister until the investigation was completed”). Plus the consequences are a bit more severe than a speeding ticket:

                “Without thought [I] breached airport and airline security rules by entering the gate lounge through a door usually used for exit only,”… “It was just we were in a hurry to get on the plane.”…

                New Zealand regulations say when a person boards a jet-engined plane without being subject to a security check, the plane should be emptied and passengers should pass through security again.
                The pilot was reportedly aware three unauthorised passengers had boarded the plane but flew anyway.
                Those found to have breached airport security regulations could be liable to three months’ jail or a $2000 fine.

                http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10308177/CAA-to-investigate-own-ministers-actions

              • Rodel

                Gee Gos / Thanks for your invaluable advice. We really appreciate your deep thoughts.

          • karol 1.1.1.1.2

            Actually, the media, including the usual right leading columnists, (Watkins, Armstrong) are highly critical of Brownlee. Armstrong says Key should have accepted his resignation. Usually right leaning NZ Herald poll is about 48% for Brownlee signing with another 19% said to wait for the outcome of the investigation. Only a minority 33% say he shouldn’t resign.

            And the above columnists are critical of Labour for not coming out more strongly in calling for Brownlee’s resignation.

            • Gosman 1.1.1.1.2.1

              Which puts paid to the view that the media is automatically biased towards National. However I don’t think it has reached such a point where it would benefit Labour to switch focus. When I was listening to National radio this morning it wasn’t leading the news or even in the top two or three stories. If it becomes the main focuis then it would benefit Labour to attack. Of course that doen’t mean Labour shouldn’t keep this simering at some level just I don’t think it would be useful to try and make a big deal out of it at this point in time.

              • karol

                the view that the media is automatically biased towards National.

                I haven’t heard/seen anyone saying that.

                The view is that, on balance, the Herald journos and editors are right leaning. They have journos/columnists supporting left wing views on occasions, but the right views dominate.

                And, even when being critical of National, the likes of Tracy Watkins can’t resist getting the boot into Labour – “too soft on the issue” this time. ie Labour get criticised whatever they do.

                • Gosman

                  Yeah right. The view as expressed by many here and on other left leaning blogs is somehow National and the Media are in cahoots and that National is able to get it’s message across and shutdown Labours message via some shadowy undefined means.

                  • karol

                    That’s a mis-representation of the views many of us have expressed.

                    It’s not some much “undefined” as a flexible system. It’s about having sympathetic people in key positions in the media (eg as editors, CEOs, etc), who tend to appoint journalists who won’t rock their boat – especially journalists who tend to lean right. Most journalists aim to do a good job in reporting the facts. Op ed columnists can express their opinions – but there tends to be more right leaning ones than left columnists.

                    But why should I waste my time explaining it in detail yet again – I’ve written some detailed posts on how it occurs. You clearly don’t seem willing or able to represent such views accurately.

          • Tom Jackson 1.1.1.1.3

            Imagine if Cunliffe had done what Brownlee did.

            The howls for his resignation would bring down the heavens.

            This is a joke country, with joke media, and joke politics.

      • Clemgeopin 1.1.2

        Gerry dos not even need to apply any pressure. The very fact that HE is the MINISTER in charge of airport security rules implies that he should KNOW it was illegal and wrong to do or even ask. There aren’t different rules for him just because he is……..whatever!

        Definitely a sacking offense especially being the transport minister!

    • Roflcopter 1.2

      So, what you’re saying is that it is more important than…

      “There are more important things to discuss like child poverty, unemployment, our polluted rivers, our malfunctioning ETS, the loss of civil and political freedoms, our appalling domestic violence statistics, burgeoning crown debt …” – MickySavage

      Righto, on with the sideshow.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1

        Well, he did say that he’s thought about it some more and had now come to a different conclusion.

        • Dumrse 1.2.1.1

          It’s a non event. It’s up there with speeding in a ministerial limo on you way to the rugby.

          • Colonial Viper 1.2.1.1.1

            So you want to charge the poor security guy at the airport gate?

          • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.1.2

            No its not a non event. He broke the rules on purpose in the belief that he was above the rules.

            • McFlock 1.2.1.1.2.1

              and possibly used his authority to mislead a security officer that the rules had changed.

              Is the sentence that requires a mandatory kickout of parliament an offence punishable by one year in prison or two?

            • Dumrse 1.2.1.1.2.2

              He asked the officer if he could go through the door. He was given access. A non event.

    • Skinny 1.3

      Exactly right you were hasty cobber. You of you Labour guys need to know when you can exploit a National weakness. What is shows is a high degree of arrogant ‘I can do what I bloody well please attitude.’ The public only need a stiff of a bullet proof Government Minister and they’ll turn on the Government like a wild dog. Even Armstrong is having a crack;

      http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11298716

      Watching First Line this morning where Gerry is filmed with what looks like a mini me ( or in Gerry’s. case a maxi me) bending down to pick up his phone like a lap dog. Will this guy replace him is the big question?

    • @micky – what about sticking to the knitting – like trying to win the election by talking about policy and so on. Distractions are not going to help labour – campaigning to win is.

      • Ant 1.4.1

        “We’re going to focus on the issues!”

        **complain about Mike Hosking*

        :facepalm:

        • Colonial Viper 1.4.1.1

          The TV debates are amongst the most important media events in the weeks before the election. That the MSM thought they could get away with this skullduggery suggests they expected a compliant Labour.

          • Skinny 1.4.1.1.1

            Watched Seven Sharp tonight Hosking does some ‘dog whistling’ about bullying. A little subliminal message to his rightwing nutbars to rise up and defend his honour.

            Sorry Mike that call will fall on deaf ears the National appointed board were instructed to tone the current afairs show down. So light weight it is. Yip we can see you and that air head co presenter are rattled.

            By the way the Lefties still holding the line at TVNZ said to say “the ‘close up’ of the pubic hair transplanted from around your ball bag to your bobbling head looks ridiculously hideous”. Did you pay 50k for that?

            I”ve personally pledged 2 k to any of the camera crew to zoom in during the debate. I want to see that worm freeze. Which of course means wtf 🙂 money well worth the laugh at your expense.

    • Bearded Git 1.5

      On tv3 news Gower said Brownlee “barged through”.

      Hauiti, Brownlee and Borrows all in the same day showing a sense of entitlement where the rules don’t apply to them.

      Add this to McCully, Williamson, Coleman (see Karol below) and Collins resignation matters, plus Key’s failure to apologise on the rape and refusal to hold Hauiti to account, and you have a cabinet that has lost its way.

      Something of a shambles. Cunliffe should say this.

      Time to kill the Hoskin debate now-he will be on best behaviour.

  2. Jenny 2

    “We are trying to change a system that is resistant to change”

    Hone Harawira

    “In times of universal deceit just telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”

    George Orwell

    “The establishment fear and loathe David Cunliffe.” [Jenny]

    The establishment is defined in my dictionary as “a group of social, economic, and political leaders who form a ruling class”.

    I had to look it up because it is not a term generally in use in NZ. That is because there is not an “establishment” in NZ. It is an egalitarian land of opportunity for all.
    Srylands comment 850798

    The establishment that Srylands claims doesn’t exist in New Zealand, is planning to deliver up a humiliation to the Labour Party by promoting a Right Wing commentator with a well known bias against Labour, into the position of moderator of the Leader’s debate.

    In ancient Rome Caligula is said to have made his horse Incitatus a senator. Down through the ages this has been used as a bench mark for grotesque political appointments. In my opinion in New Zealand in 2014 the appointment of Mike Hosking as moderator of the Leaders debate is as glaringly a grotesque political appointment as that.

    Not since the jamming of Uncle Scrim’s radio show have the establishment so openly attacked the Labour Party.*

    If Labour want to win the election they must stand up to the establishment.

    Labour must announce a boycott TVNZ until they submit.

    Labour’s support Party’s the Greens Mana (and New Zealand First) must declare themselves and show solidarity with New Zealand’s biggest and leading Left Party, and also commit to supporting a boycott of TVNZ until TVNZ drop their demand to impose Mike Hosking to mediate in the Leaders Debate.

    As the New Zealand feature length documentary “Hot Air” demonstrates there is an establishment, and it insists on imposing its will on our democratically elected representatives.** HOT AIR

    If you need any further proof that there is an establishment and it is hostile to the Left, witness that pillar of the establishment the Rugby Union dressing up our Right Wing Prime minister as a popular hero by posing him in an All Black jersey.

    *On the night of 24 November 1935, radio engineers employed by the Post and Telegraph Department deliberately jammed a popular religious programme by Colin Scrimgeour, commonly known as ‘Uncle Scrim’, just as he started to talk about the upcoming election. The engineers had been instructed to do so by their superior, on the grounds that Scrimgeour was likely to urge his listeners to vote for Labour. The postmaster general, Adam Hamilton, who was the minister responsible for broadcasting, denied having given orders for the jamming – which subsequently became notorious.

    **
    IF YOU SEE only one film in the 2014 NZ International Film Festival see Alister Barry’s feature-length documentary, Hot Air.

    This chilling exposé of the strategy and tactics adopted by New Zealand’s largest industries to ensure that no effective action to combat climate change is ever undertaken in this country should be viewed by every voter.

    Hot Air constitutes one of the most persuasive arguments for radical, ruthless and rapid policy implementation on behalf of people and planet I have ever encountered.

    The documentary proves conclusively that if a government opts for “business as usual” politics, then it is “business” that usually alwayswins.

    Hot Air screens on the following dates at the following locations:

    AUCKLAND

    Friday 1 August 1:00 p.m. Sky City Cinema
    Saturday 2 August 3:30 p.m. Sky City Cinema

    WELLINGTON

    Thursday 31 July 6:15 p.m. Paramount Cinema (World Premiere)
    Wednesday 6 August 11.00 a.m. Paramount Cinema

    DUNEDIN

    Friday 8 August 1:00 pm Rialto
    Sunday 10 August 1:15pm Rialto

    CHRISTCHURCH

    Monday 11 Aug 6.00pm Hoyts Northlands 3
    Tuesday 12 August 11.00am Hoyts Northlands 3

    • Rosie 2.1

      Thanks for the heads up on Hot Air Jenny. Look forward to it coming out on DVD.

    • greywarbler 2.2

      @ Jenny 6.58
      Thanks for the infor and good points.

      We’ll keep srylands on – he is good example for understanding that sort of stiff-backed, that’s what they taught me at school and I’ve never thought anything since, sort of intellectualism, if that’s even the right word. You also understand then how hard it is to frame and pass and implement policies that fit current needs when you read the words written in stone from this graven image.

  3. “..(ed:..in hindsight..this seems surreal/unbelievable..

    ..but during my years as a heroin addict i had a nasty accident involving a very sharp chisel..and tendons in my hand..”

    http://whoar.co.nz/2014/like-peaches-geldof-my-nephew-died-of-a-heroin-overdose-he-needed-help-not-prison-comment-my-nightmare-experience-at-middlemore-hospital/

  4. Saarbo 4

    It seems that criticism of Labour is hitting its crescendo now (Bowally, Pundit, …) and hopefully will decline from here on :-). Everything that Labour does is fair game and Brent Edwards does a good explanation here http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/250571/power-play-with-brent-edwards . But in my view,whoever the “insider” is who went to Stuff and bleated about DC’s 3 day break has done the most damage…things seem to have become unrecoverable since then because it has exposed the continual lack of maturity and cohesion of the Labour caucus. This will need to be addressed post election, or Labour is finished.

    • Jenny 4.1

      It seems that criticism of Labour is hitting its crescendo now (Bowally, Pundit, …)

      Sarbo, could we have a citation from you of these attacks on Labour from Bowally, and Pundit?

      • bad12 4.1.1

        i am also interested in Saarbo’s comment, on the one hand it takes a swipe at Bowally and Pundit,for this alleged ”criticism”,

        Then,

        Two lines later buys straight into the Mainstream Media promotion that an ‘insider’ had leveled a whole pile of critcism concerning the Labour Leaders recent holiday,

        How to address this issue without yelling at the top of my lungs Faark is starting to become beyond my small capabilities,

        Where, yes WHERE, is there a shred of evidence that any ‘insider’ or ‘Labour Caucus member’ said a FAARKING thing to the media about the ‘holiday’,

        Going Wah Wah Wah at Bowally and Pundit seems facile when in the blink of an eye what is just as likely to have been made up by the Jonolist who penned the story is given the credence of Gospel…

        • Saarbo 4.1.1.1

          Bad12.

          Journo’s very rarely actually make things up, they will exaggerate and go to the limits of professionalism but will not make up lies. Gavin Ellis on RNZ challenged the professionalism of Stuff on RNZ, which was fair but in the end of the day the there is no doubt that some idiot with in Labour (I think we all know who it was) went to Stuff and made these statements… it will be hard to recover now (IMHO)…that is all I am saying.

          • bad12 4.1.1.1.1

            Saarbo, Not A Shred Of Actual Evidence Then???…???…???(excuse the Ure-ism),

            Now ”you think you know who it is” again,???…???…???,

            For Gods sake, the Mainstream Media aint Labour’s worst enemy, anyone with a mindset that encompasses what you have published here this morning vis a vis ‘the holiday’ IS,

            Disclaimer: and i aint even a frigging Labour supporter, its pretty much a given that this time round they wont be getting a vote off of me,

            i could say one hell of a lot more surrounding the attitude displayed here, BUT, what’s the point wasting my time defending a party from its supposed supporters when i am not even voting for it…

            • bad12 4.1.1.1.1.1

              PS, ”Journo’s very rarely make things up”, right i plan on providing a debate around this point containing all the logic and realism that the point itself makes,

              Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, and, Ha ha ha ha ha, in conclusion, Ha ha ha ha….

      • Saarbo 4.1.2

        http://pundit.co.nz/content/mike-hosking-the-benefit-of-low-expectations

        http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/from-here-to-there-how-did-labour.html

        They are a bit demoralising if you are a Labourite..if you haven’t had enough you can then go the Dim Post….

        • phillip ure 4.1.2.1

          a lot of those on the left are still thinking very much first past the post..

          ..as far as the left bloc is concerned it matters little that labour bleeds votes..

          ..it is where those votes go that matters..

          ..so..if as expected..they walk to internet/mana and the greens..

          ..that is of little matter..

          ..in fact for anyone hoping for more than a national-lite performance from labour..

          ..this is good news/part of the process that must be gone thru..

          ..we have an arrogant/still lost in neo-lib land labour..refusing to work with other left parties for the best election outcome for the left bloc..

          …they deserve to get their arses kicked..

          ..add to that no mention of the word ‘poverty’ from labour.-policies…nothing meaningful..’

          ..no poverty-busting policies…

          ..so really the best outcome for the left bloc for anyone of a progressive-bent..

          ..is to walk from labour..

          ..and to chose to give their votes to either internet/mana..or the greens..

          ..those two together being stronger than labour..

          ..is our best hope for any real change..

          ..so fret not at labours’ support collapsing..

          ..just work to make that support go to the right places..

          …and really..this is all labours’ fault..

          ..that pig-headedness over working together in those electorates..

          ..and their veering to the right…

          ..it’s all their own work..

    • greywarbler 4.2

      @ Saarbo 7.19
      I was wondering if the Party Whip works outside Parliament as well as in, rounding up the pollies and making sure they are where they ought to be.

      Perhaps this role could be expanded to keep a watchful eye on the frolics of pollies in season of the old rams, the ewes, and the youthful tail waggers. It’s important to have a shepherd of the flock to look out for the sneaky cur that would dash in, rip them open and leave the bunch injured and suffering. If they catch dogs on their property farmers are I think entitled to shoot them. Nuff said.

    • Bearded Git 4.3

      I don’t get Trotter’s criticisms. There are always going to be the odd ructions within a caucus, but the Moa, the Davis position on the holiday highway and the Labour party person (Tamihere?) complaining about Cunliffe’s 3 days off doesn’t amount to a row of beans.

      Look at what’s going on in the National cabinet and party-see my post above.

      Trotter still fails make the obvious point that if Labour’s policies are not to the left’s liking then they can vote for the Greens or IMP who will push Labour further left.

      • Saarbo 4.3.1

        “Trotter still fails make the obvious point that if Labour’s policies are not to the left’s liking then they can vote for the Greens or IMP who will push Labour further left.”

        Yep, agree that trotter is wrong here, but where he is correct are his claims around the disunity in caucus and the harm that this perception is having on Labours vote. People wont vote for a party that isn’t working well together, and why should they.

  5. Belladonna 5

    Someone on the radio last night referred to current day politics as bollitics – good description I thought.

  6. northshoreguynz 6

    Policy, policy policy. Remark about Hosking, Brownlee, Key etc, then talk about policy.
    Anything else is always going have a negative spin on it, even it is a valid complaint. The more we talk about policy, at EVERY opportunity, the better.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.1

      /agreed

    • Jenny 6.2

      But how can Labour get their message out if it is being given the Hosking treatment?

      The continual innuendo that Hosking silently conveys to the audience, when mentioning the Labour Party. a sly dismissal delivered with a wry lift of the eyebrows as he tilts his head and gazes down the barrel of the TV camera challenging you to contradict him.

      The cynical Right Wing twist he gives to every delivery. The self satisfied gloating as he takes his place in moderator’s chair, the groveling apologetic aire, that will be wrung from David Cunliffe as Cunliffe dignifies this circus by his attendance.

      Never forget

      ‘With human beings perception is everything.’

      • northshoreguynz 6.2.1

        Caucus is just going to have to be more focused. Talk past the likes of Hoskings. He doesn’t care about policy, but I bet the public wants to hear it. So talk about it.

      • Zoroaster 6.2.2

        It’s too late to do anything about it now, massive wheels are turning that take years to wind down… but if this were another world, Labour and or its friends would be ramping up the Reality TV approach to public politics. A simple moment of enraged walk-out – and the “debate” and its moderator will give them plenty of opportunity to do so – would send potential ratings for a re-match through the hysterical viewers roof. It would galvanise voters one way or another and no more need to whine about poor electoral roll numbers. Lefties would go rabidly apeshit at their masters example. Righties would tut tut and bellow like impotent parents, like they do, and the argument is then re-positioned from Labour’s view because National can’t argue themselves and have nothing to offer except an argument. National don’t know how to think or convince anyone of anything, they only push off other political ideas with a this-or-nothing manner. Some one needs to slip something into Cunliffe’s drink before he goes on and just watch the show. Ask phillip ure up the page, he sounds like he’d know. Cunliffe will never win or convince the unconvinceable by arguing numbers, he’ll never win on morals, he’ll never win on sensible logic. New Zealand society is ruled by irrational desires and no one with social status is crying out for a saviour to call time. He has to out perform the concept of entertainment and simply galvanise the public. Given the limitations, it’s all anyone could ask.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.2.3

        The cynical Right Wing twist he gives to every delivery. The self satisfied gloating as he takes his place in moderator’s chair, the groveling apologetic aire, that will be wrung from David Cunliffe as Cunliffe dignifies this circus by his attendance.

        Cunliffe has one option – stamp on it and grind it under foot.

  7. bad12 7

    From my wireless, RadioNZ National, this morning Joe Hockey, Australian Treasurer,

    ”Australia’s private pension funds are enormous”, ”These pension funds will in the future be the primary source of income for those who retire”,

    ”The State Pension will in time become a safety net”!!!…

    • Awww 7.1

      All the better to raid. Accounts that lay dormant for three years or more have recently been confiscated by the Australian government. It’s outrageous.

      http://www.hangthebankers.com/australian-pensioners-and-savers-have-bank-accounts-raided-by-government/

      Nearly $360 million from 80,000 accounts was funnelled into government coffers in the year to May after Labor lowered the threshold, eclipsing the $330 million netted between 1959 and 2012, during which time idle accounts could only be touched after seven years.

      $360 million AUD is roughly $395 million NZD. Hang on to your Kiwisaver folks.

      Kim Taylor, a marketing consultant from Randwick, deposited a few thousand dollars into an ING account with the intention of leaving it aside and letting it accumulate interest. Now the balance sits at zero.

      ”I wanted the money to sit there as a maternity leave thing. I left it there thinking that’s my little luxury nest egg. I have four children under the age of nine, and I work full-time; getting the paperwork sorted to get the money back has been painful.”

  8. wyndham 8

    Shades of Aaron Gilmore ? “Don’t you know who I am?”

  9. anker 9

    http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/television-new-zealand-calling-to-have-mike-hosking-dropped-from-moderatingthe-political-debates#share

    For those of you who didn’t see this petition on the posting yesterday about Mike Hoskings, please sign it and forward it on.

    Cheers,

    • ianmac 9.1

      Vote stands a 2,777 now.

    • Rosie 9.2

      Excellent! Thank you anker, just signed 😀

      • Tiger Mountain 9.2.1

        Signed it today after initially not wanting to ad to ‘diversion’ yesterday, thought about it and signed because I agree. The ‘diversion’ meme is becoming a real righties one too at the moment.

        Hosking for President; of the self love club.

    • ianmac 9.3

      Suzie interviewed Right wing man Bill Ralston this morning and surprisingly he condemned David Cunliffe for making such a fuss re Hoskings. And surprisingly Suzie encouraged his negative spin. Who would have guessed?

    • Clemgeopin 9.4

      I think at this stage it is better to keep Hosking than replace him now.

  10. Jenny 10

    Both the Green and Mana Parties accepted last week’s organisers of the protest against the attack on Gaza to send official speakers to address the rally. David Shearer for Labour declined to attend as Labour’s spokesperson, citing his prior agreement to attend another engagement.

    All three Parties have put out official press statements on this issue.

    http://campaign.labour.org.nz/gaza_ground_offensive_can_only_result_in_more_deaths

    https://www.greens.org.nz/node/33945

    http://mana.net.nz/2014/07/burning-the-flag-or-accepting-the-evil/

    Mana leader Hone Harawira quoted Martin Luther King:

    “He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.” – See more at: http://mana.net.nz/2014/07/burning-the-flag-or-accepting-the-evil/#sthash.a9oY9Mi7.dpuf

    The organisers of the protests against the attack on Gaza have called another nation wide protest this Saturday;

    Read the Details HERE

    Two no shows in a row won’t wash.

    Time for Labour to step up to mark and defy the establishment over the war in Palestine?

    Time for Labour to defy the establishment over anything?

    • greywarbler 10.1

      @Jenny 9.00
      ” David Shearer for Labour declined to attend as Labour’s spokesperson, citing his prior agreement to attend another engagement.”

      Does someone know what David Shearer was doing that prevented him attending. Did someone else go? Labour pollies can multitask and there are numbers of young pollies to call on to show the flag as it were.

      • Jenny 10.1.1

        I don’t know what other engagement Shearer had. But it doesn’t really matter, if he turns up this time. And no, no one else fronted up for Labour.

    • Chooky 10.2

      ‘When Firstline are focusing on flag burning rather than dead Palestinian children – that’s why you must march this Saturday at 2pm against Israeli aggression’

      By Martyn Bradbury / July 25, 2014

      This Saturday, Aotea Square, 2pm is that time to stand not only against Israeli aggression, but it’s tome to stand up against the pro-Israeli bias in our media…..

      • Clemgeopin 10.2.1

        I have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians and their plight. I would really like to see an agreed or enforced solution for the Palestinians to have an independent state and for both those countries to cooperate and live in peace and friendship asap.

        HOWEVER, in the present conflict, I think the immediate BLAME for the cause of this lies with Hamas/activists who kidnapped three Israeli students, murdered them and dumped their bodies somewhere. A very serious unnecessary unjust provocation. Hamas should have condemned that action, caught those perpetrators and put them on trial or handed them to Israel for justice.

        The present spate of relentless rocket fire from P to I and bombardment from I to P resulting in innocent deaths and destruction is stupid and cruel. This has to stop immediately and peace/rebuild started. How does one stop hatred? Hope better sense will prevail all round at least now. I am sure the vast majority of PEOPLE on BOTH sides and AROUND the world would want that. The question is, do the politicians and the extremists on either side really want that?

        • Murray Olsen 10.2.1.1

          Where’s the evidence that Hamas killed the three Israelis? I haven’t seen any. What that triggered was not a police investigation, but the IDF (Infant Destruction Force) running riot in the West Bank, Palestinians who had previously been released being reimprisoned, a young Palestinian being burned to death by young Israelis, and a young American getting the shit kicked out of him. Then some rockets were fired from Gaza, but I’ve also read that the IDF had been bombing them anyway.

  11. karol 11

    And now Immigration NZ told Coleman of FBI interest in Kim Dotcom:

    Government minister Jonathan Coleman knew the FBI was interested in Kim Dotcom before his officials granted the tycoon residency – a revelation which has led to accusations he misled the public.

    The accusation comes after Immigration NZ released a statement making it clear they told Dr Coleman about the FBI the day before the criticial residency decision was made.

    Dr Coleman – now Defence Minister – is now facing calls to come clean on exactly what he was told the day before Dotcom was granted residency by Immigration NZ officials.

    • Tiger Mountain 11.1

      The long and winding road, perhaps more OIA search results on Coleman due soon?
      No wonder Mr Dotcom set his meeting for 15 September rather than last week.

      • karol 11.1.1

        Nick Smith, Hekia Parata, Judith Collins, Maurice Williamson, Gerry Brownlee, Jonathan Coleman…etc, etc…. all under John Key’s watch…

        What will it take for this shonkey ship to finally sink?

        • Bearded Git 11.1.1.1

          Excellent Karol. See my post above. I forgot Smith and Parata.

          Someone like Chris Trotter should write an article about the shambles that is the National cabinet, instead of criticising the minor misdemeanors/ructions in the shadow cabinet.

          I just can’t believe that Trotter is buying into the MSM’s framing of the 2 major parties.

          • greywarbler 11.1.1.1.1

            @Bearded Git 10.31
            Do you comment on Bowalley Road then BG? If not please do. There is room for intelligent discussion like yours. and discussion is always needed on some important point of whatever.

          • karol 11.1.1.1.2

            I forgot McCully – who else?

            • Jim Nald 11.1.1.1.2.1

              Wong. Pansy Wong. The whitewash inquiry, by the way the terms of reference were framed, skirted around the highly questionable things she and her husband had been doing. Plus she was well-known as an intermediary between a number of Chinese and National Party deals and people linking back to Jenny Shipley.

            • Clemgeopin 11.1.1.1.2.2

              What about the following Rock Stars for their various suspect questionable or stupid deeds:

              Michal Woodhouse [Went to personally meet Liu to take his advice on immigration!]
              Nathan Guy [China milk and meat issue bungles]
              Judith Collins[China milk and meet misuse shenanigans]
              Simon Bridges [Ignorance of reserved areas]
              Bill English [DDR : Double Dipton Rort]
              Phi Heatley [Misuse of money rules]
              Chester Borrows [D Drive]
              Claudette Hauiti [sad, silly & naive case]

              And what about the ‘politically’ dead ones and including their siblings like Pansy Wong, Richard Worth, Aaron Gilmore, John Banks, David Garret, Rodney Hide etc?

              A gang of capitalist party supporting wealthy nincompoops masquerading as our ‘leaders’!

        • greywarbler 11.1.1.2

          @ karol 9.38
          Hekia Parata on radionz this morning after a school stating the difficulties they are having in Northland with children who aren’t fit and ready for school. They stay on in their beds trying to keep warm for a bit longer, arriving wet, cold and late and having to be dried and warmed by volunteers providing hot milk.

          Hekia Parata comes on and says that the best thing that the NACT goverment can do for schools is to provide them with excellent advice and information.

          Pity it’s a a one way channel though, a monologue from the wealthy and smug and advantaged to the increasing host of outliers.

          Reminds me of the Peter Sellers skit of the poor sick tenant being visited by the lady of the estate with her basket of food scraps to relieve his plight, potato peelings.

        • phillip ure 11.1.1.3

          the greenwald/snowden-revelations will play their part…

          ..the revelations of how key has turned nz into a vassal-state of america..

          ..and proof of the contempt they hold any ideas of our sovereignty..

          ..will be the sauce on that pudding..

  12. Weepus beard 12

    Slater is busy goading his readers into speculating who the sexual assaulter is. “Impertinent question” is the post if anyone is brave enough. Comments have been closed, lol.

    Hope he gets nailed for breaching the suppression order (again).

    • freedom 12.1

      Pete 🙄 over at yournz also tossed around some big breadcrumbs recently.

      I am now off to Wellington for some weekend fun with friends, really looking forward to hearing what topics are being discussed around the tables, and looking forward to my first beer in months.

      See ya next week sometime Standardistas

      • Rosie 12.1.1

        Have a great time freedom and enjoy that beer 😀 For some reason I thought you were in Wellington…….

      • bad12 12.1.2

        Lolz, its 🙄 stuck, credit where credit is due poor old 🙄 is probably deserving of His very own emoticon,

        my suggestion, a little under-bridge dweller crying, chucking, and, defecating in sequence…

    • Puckish Rogue 12.2

      Hows he goading them? I’m a regular reader and I don’t see any goading going on…

      • Weepus beard 12.2.1

        [deleted]

        – Slater

        That is a clear nudge in a particular direction and an invitation to speculate. If you can’t see that you must have comprehension difficulties.

        [lprent: Don’t be a fool. It throws blame on to all those other people in the same group. ]

        • Puckish Rogue 12.2.1.1

          Naah I know who it is, I was just trying to see if you’d step over the mark as well 🙂

          • Weepus beard 12.2.1.1.1

            The image in the post shows Cunliffe comped next to Martin Luther King. That Slater is a racist rat bag isn’t he?

            • Puckish Rogue 12.2.1.1.1.1

              Its more a nod to cunliffes habit of making himself out to be more then he is I think ref: his helping start up Fonterra, his CV embellishments etc etc

              • Saarbo

                Labour and BCG played a part in setting up Fonterra, National was against it.

              • McFlock

                more fucking tory lies, by the way.
                No embellishment occurred, although he did have to rewrite it using smaller words so you dicks have more difficulty maintaining your deliberate misunderstanding.

            • Murray Olsen 12.2.1.1.1.2

              He is. His readers are even worse. Racist, sexist, and deluded. On the odd occasion that I look at his crap, I’m reminded of how people used to visit Bedlam to laugh at the insane in years gone by.

    • Once was Pete 12.3

      Why don’t you stick to the truth? Following your comment I went there to have a look. The moderator could not be clearer. Say anything that hints at his identity and you are banned for life.

      [lprent: I have absolutely no wish to spend time in courts either explaining other peoples comments violating a court order. Free speech on that topic consists of doing submissions and moaning about the suppression law, or I can freely start banning people for wasting my time cleaning up the offences. ]

      • Weepus beard 12.3.1

        What are you misunderstanding about the quote above? How is Slater’s quote not a hint at the man’s identity and how on earth are you unable to see that it invites speculation? The thread has been closed – that is admission enough that it was a mistake.

        Just highlights the supreme dictatorial arrogance of the man that he should threaten his readers with a life ban after stoking the fire by doing the very thing he proposes to ban people for.

      • Once was Pete 12.3.2

        Not sure I follow your caution. Nothing I said was meant to identify him. I was commenting on Weepus Beard’s post.

  13. vto 13

    Yesterday I claimed that today the Israeli government would kill 7 children http://thestandard.org.nz/tuwhera-mike-24072014/#comment-854722

    In my worst possible nightmare they have actually gone past that and aimed their missiles at a school. At a school ffs. And destroyed it killing children.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/10308559/Israeli-shells-kill-at-least-15-at-UN-school

    Wtf is the matter with the jews?

    • Rosie 13.1

      And yet, I’ve just heard the DJ on the local independent radio station here in Wgtn having to apologise for a comment he made earlier this week about the IDF being murderers……………

      Can’t go around upsetting people with the truth……………..

    • Colonial Viper 13.2

      a) It was a UN school. But the facility had recently become a UN recognised refuge from Israeli attack. The UN had commnicated its GPS co-ordinates to the Israelis to ensure they knew where and what it was.

      The Israelis then attacked it. UN staff were amongst the dead and injured.

      b) It’s not a problem with ‘the Jews’ (other than the Jewish community not standing fast against this ghettoisation and killing of civilians). It is a problem of the Israeli political and military elite, and an entire psychopathic segment of the Israeli establishment who will launch an optical guided missile at children on a beach, a missile which has the technology to let the soldiers operating it know very clearly what they are aiming at and at any time during the engagement allows them to divert the missile if it is clear that the target are children.

      • greywarbler 13.2.1

        @colonial viper 11.06
        +100

        • Colonial Viper 13.2.1.1

          Israeli Offensive Forces justify their action by claiming they gave UNRWA notice that they were going to shell the facility and to evacuate. (Evacuate where?)

          Then they went ahead and hit the facility.

          • greywarbler 13.2.1.1.1

            @colonial viper 12.13
            Without felicitous fanfare they facilitated the flattening of the facility.
            And the children and the UN workers and the hospital and the doctors all on the flimsiest of excuses which in the language of Israeli commanders is just a screen for saying we want to hammer you into submission.

            Don’t Jewish people have anything left of their nobility and intelligence. They just have excuses for the direst behaviour to the Palestinians that comes close to the deathly concentration camps of WW2. They started off, the Nasties, lining them up and shooting at them so they fell neatly into pits. It was a bit later that they started using the gas.

            So what they are doing to the Palestinians is terribly close to what was done to them. I can never forget what the Nasties did – it was human viciousness at its extreme and is a blight against us all because it shows us the deep wells of pathological behaviour that we all have potential for. For Jewish people to go along the same path is deeply sad and I can’t respect them any more.

            It seems that only a civil war within Israel will get the junta out. And probably Israeli citizens would be imprisoned or start to disappear like in South America if protesters objected and protested.

            They have treated severely a whistleblower about their nuclear program.
            wikipedia
            Mordechai Vanunu (Hebrew: מרדכי ואנונו‎; born 14 October 1954), also known as John Crossman,[2][3] is a former Israeli nuclear technician who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel’s nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986.[4][5] He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and abducted by Israeli intelligence agents.[4] He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.[4]

            Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement. Released from prison in 2004,…
            He says he suffered “cruel and barbaric treatment” at the hands of Israeli authorities while imprisoned, and suggests that his treatment would have been different if he had not converted to Christianity from Judaism.[6]
            In 2005 there was a US campaign to free him. http://www.vanunu.com/uscampaign/

            In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested and sentenced to three months in jail on a charge that he met foreigners in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail.
            In May 2014 Vanunu was invited to speak before the British Parliament and was to meet with Amnesty International but Israel won’t let him leave the country.
            He is held there with many restrictions on him.

  14. Adrian 14

    Brownlee’s timeline is important. Did he have a wee rethink of his actions before or after CAA called him on this? And why CAA and not the Police?

    • bad12 14.1

      ”Why the CAA and not the Police”???, there is unlikely to have been an offence committed by Brownlee that is covered by the Crimes Act,

      However,

      As John,(the crim), Banks found out much to His surprise way back in 1991 the Civil Aviation regulations carry with them a set of ‘civil offences’ along with penalties…

      • ianmac 14.1.1

        There was a remark from Brownlie’s at his interview with journalists which sounded like “Don’t you know who I am?” to the doorman at the security bypass. Phrased slightly differently but…
        Note that even flight crews have to be processed through security but not Brownlie.

        I have a distant recollection of Brownlie barging through/past a person waiting to meet him outside the Quake headquarters a year or two ago on camera. Imagine the minor airport official being barged by his bulk. I am sure there will be video pointed at this doorway.

  15. greywarbler 16

    A grant from Australian Post for $2 million for a museum while at the same time dropping 900 from its workforce is exercising some Australians. But it is a bonus that was to be paid to its CEO. But there is a racist, self-centred group ready to condemn anyone else getting anything who of course have reacted because it is, in this case, a Muslim museum. And sending emails out about it. I have had such emails before and it seems they are trying to foment trouble and negative feelings.

    There is something wrong of course – that there is a system that pays its chief management such huge sums. If they at present receive them, then choose to pass this money on to some useful project is entirely their business. Good on them. It is the bad practices of the self-serving free market largesse for the wealthy that should be criticised and changed immediately.

    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/planned-museum-hopes-to-shed-light-on-islam-20110501-1e363.html
    Modelled on ventures such as the Chinese Museum, the Museo Italiano in Carlton and the Jewish Museum in St Kilda, the idea for a precinct emphasising heritage and art drawn from the more than 60 ethnicities who identify as Muslim here was developed by Macquarie banker Moustafa Fahour and his wife Maysaa.

    ”I am a very proud Australian Muslim,” says Moustafa Fahour, 29, one of eight children born to Lebanese migrant parents who settled in Melbourne in the 1960s.

  16. Ennui 17

    Some serious news from the Ukraine.

    http://www.theautomaticearth.com/debt-rattle-jul-24-2014-ukraine-what-to-do-when-growth-is-gone/

    The Ukraine government just resigned, they are bankrupt and cant pay the troops.

    • bad12 17.1

      Ennui, that’s a recommended read, twice, turn on your sense of humor for the first read and then turn it off for the second time round,

      i couldn’t read the story you refer to about Ukraine, the adverts covered it up and i couldn’t figure out
      how to be rid of them so i had a good read of the rest of the page, a bit long, but, well worth the effort,

      Read with the sense of humor firmly switched off the whole page in total simply says that unless the current collective of loonies in charge of the various asylums,(countries),do something drastic we are all staggering toward the point in time when all these trillions of dollars of ”debt bombs” have to be ”rationalized”,

      For a hint of how such rationalization has traditionally occurred think Europe 1914–1918, the debt bombs become real ones where promisory notes that are in fact worthless cease to be ‘swapped’ and the debts are all paid for in the blood of the innocents by the chucking of real bombs,

      While on the surface, QE, the printing of money, might seem to many as the silver bullet on the path of redemption for the Banksters, the means by which this is being accomplished across the western world economies, Governments Print, Banksters buy, is in all reality just forestalling the next phase of the ongoing destruction of the capitalist economies from within,

      Except as an exercise of book-keeping where the Red ink is magically transformed into the color Black by such transactions nothing much else occurs in the way of production and in fact, by producing such monies as a debt owed by them the Governments doing so are in effect, seeing as they were all to all extents and purposes bankrupt befor starting the QE circus, simply ensuring that the next Crash leaves them with debts where the pile of 000000000’s at the end of the first significant numeral doubles, triples or quadtriples,(an argument of course could be put forward that its only semantics at a point where say the number of 00000’s on the end of the debt bomb reaches 100 or 1000, after all fucked is fucked),

      What these primitive chimps, for want of a better description, cannot seem to grasp is that the Governments QE-ing like mad all over the show HAVE to produce those monies as a pile of Un-encumbered Money, seems pretty ‘basic’ to me,

      To make ‘the system’ then begin to work such ‘un-encumbered monies’ need then be spent, at a rate where its judged to be acceptable in terms of inflation by those Governments ‘doing things’ ‘making things’ etc within their local economies,

      Geez that’s hard work squeezing all that out, probably i should just put my humorous shadez back on and read ‘the financial intestines of the fall’ through such a tint,

      By the way, has anyone got a good set of plans for a bomb-shelter, i feel the need for one coming on….

  17. Hami Shearlie 18

    I heard Sean Plunkett say that the security measures should only be used for international flights – tell that to all the Americans who lost their families on all those “domestic” flights on 9/11?

    • unpcnzcougar 18.1

      There are many domestic airports in NZ that do not have security to go through.

      • Halfcrown 18.1.1

        Which ones are those then?

        • McFlock 18.1.1.1

          my guess is the ones that can’t take 737s.

          Although regarding security measures, frankly they’re idiotic. Heightened measures were a needed immediately after 9/11 to disarm paranoid wannabe-heroes, but other than that they weren’t needed, especially on smaller aircraft.

          The advice prior to 9/11 was “do as they say, because a fight in the air could destroy the entire aircraft killing all on board”. I.e. hijackers obtained control via the submission of everyone else on board, because a few dead hostages is better than a crashed ‘plane. As soon as the tactics changed to using the aircraft as a weapon, the submission of passengers was no longer on the table, problem solved.

        • ianmac 18.1.1.2

          Blenheim Airport is security free.

          • Herodotus 18.1.1.2.1

            From my reading security measures only apply to jet engines, sorry cannot find the link. That will be why there are no security measures when boarding Air NZ Link flights.

            • golf74 18.1.1.2.1.1

              The requirement to be security screened or not depends on the number of seats on the aircraft you will be travelling on. I think it is around 70. So for NZ domestic flying the ATR 72, Q300, B1900 all have under 70 pax seats and screening isn’t required. A320 and 737 obviously have more than 70 so screening is required. This basically splits it into jet v turboprop even though that isn’t actually the distinction.

              Not 100% sure but I think private charters don’t require screening even if over 70 pax seats.

              When thinking about areas at an airport there are 2 distinctions. The areas beyond security are ‘sterile’ areas. This is where the larger aircraft all depart from. So only people who are security screened can enter these areas. Interestingly the tarmac area is only a ‘security’ area so you have to have a legit purpose to be there and have the proper identification but you don’t need to go through screening to be on that part of the airport. Avsec and the police do carry out random searches of people and vehicles on the tarmac.

        • nadis 18.1.1.3

          Auckland for instance. Catch a flight from Auckland Airport to (say) Tauranga or Nelson or any other regional airport and marvel at the lack of any security. Any flight on one of the prop driven planes has no security.

        • greywarbler 18.1.1.4

          @Halfcrown
          We can’t possibly tell you which airports – we neither confirm nor deny. (They probably are regional and let’s try to keep them bug-free please. It might help if we ban usa people from coming here like we do with Fiji, though some can come in for the rugby or whatever.)

        • unpcnzcougar 18.1.1.5

          Most regionals. I have been through Tauranga and Blenheim neither of which had security. Really I agree with Plunkett – there is no point in blowing up a plane here as nobody in the world would care – meaning there is not enough collateral damage compared to say Australia or USA.

    • Colonial Viper 18.2

      Bringing American security state techniques to NZ is as backward a step for us as it has been for them.

  18. Chauncey Gardiner 19

    THE ALL BLACKS, MIKE HOSKINGS, FRAMMING & THE STRICT PARENT/NURTURANT PARENT FAMILY

    HARDEN UP NZ

    What?

    At present there is much debate about the choice of moderator in the up and coming debate. Of course this is important; they have influence over the tone, language and the means to steer the debate. Bill Rolaston interviewed on Morning Report today seems to think otherwise, and that the Labour party leader is behaving like Robert Muldoon? No framing of peoples opinion there Bill, the Labour Leader never apologises does he. Mind you, Bill did mention that Keys only wanted a certain number of debates because it was in his interests. Again, they didn’t interview anyone with a counter opinion to Bill. Also he snuck in a criticism that Labour were to busy dealing with the minutiae instead of core issues.

    Funny how the majority of MSM seem to be steering the interviews toward this minutiae, don’t worry about child poverty a, it’s not trivial enough.

    Unfortunately with the selection Mr Hoskins, it could fall into a tag team debate (a 2 on 1 scenario). Not so innocent? The question then is who and how many people were involved at TVNZ and in the wider community into making this decision? A little social network analysis may well reveal their potential leanings, financial backgrounds, wealth etc. There are plenty of better interviewers.

    As people have mentioned a labour candidate had to resign while working in public broadcasting due to using the broadcaster’s premises etc. He was seen by the right as being biased (even though, the investigation showed that he was balanced and fair). To his credit he resigned straight away. He should not have been doing using the premises. In direct contrast we now have a known National supporter (declares it on TV) who has been earmarked for the job of moderator/chair.

    How can this be reconciled, particularly when the real argument in peoples mind for the labour candidates removal was framed in terms of him being biased (not use of equipment) sorry, but I am at a loss. Who picked him? Have you had a look on the board members of TVNZ lately?

    So, what is going on, how is it that National appear to be controlling the debate even down to interviews on radio/TV and live panel discussions before they have even began? National seem to have permeated into every edifice of society. Now John appears to be the number one All Black supporter.

    So how can all these events be reconciled, Framing?

    An article some years ago by Bonnie Azab Powell, NewsCenter 27 October 2003, may shed some light.
    http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/27_lakoff.shtml

    They asked the question, why was the Democratic Party (leftish when compared to the Republicans) losing out to the Republicans.

    She interviewed George Lakoff (UC Berkeley professor of linguistics and cognitive science who was part of the Rockridge Institute).

    Here are just some modified (i.e. summary)/unmodified exerts that may shed some light on what is going on in NZ. Maybe some lessons to be learned:

    Republicans have spent decades defining their ideas, carefully choosing the language with which to present them, and building an infrastructure to communicate them.
    The work has paid off: by dictating the terms of national debate, Republicans have put Democrats firmly on the defensive.

    She then asked Lakoff what was the Rockridge Institute purpose:

    “The background for Rockridge is that Republicans (Republicans), especially Republican think tanks, have framed virtually every issue from their perspective. They have put a huge amount of money into creating the language for their worldview and getting it out there. Democratss have
    done virtually nothing…..

    “Rockridge’s job is to reframe public debate, to create balance from a Democrats perspective. It’s one thing to analyze language and thought, it’s another thing to create it. That’s what we’re about. It’s a matter of asking ‘What are the central ideas of Democrats thought from a moral perspective?”

    “The interviewer, then asked Why do Republicans (aka the right) appear to be so much better at framing?”

    “Because they’ve put billions of dollars into it. Over the last 30 years their think tanks have made a heavy investment in ideas and in language.”

    “Why haven’t Democrats done the same thing?
    “There’s a systematic reason for that. You can see it in the way that Republican foundations and Democrats foundations work. Republican foundations give large block grants year after year to their think tanks. They say, ‘Here’s several million dollars, do what you need to do.’ And basically, they build infrastructure, TV studios, hire intellectuals etc. They do all of that. Why? Because the Republican moral system, which I analyzed in “Moral Politics,” has as its highest value preserving and defending the: “Strict Father” system itself. :This means building infrastructure. As businessmen, they know how to do this very well.”

    “Meanwhile, Democrats conceptual system of the “nurturant parent” has as its highest value helping individuals who need help. The Democrats foundations and donors give their money to a variety of grassroots organizations. They say, ‘We’re giving you $25,000, but don’t waste a penny of it. Make sure it all goes to the cause, don’t use it for administration, communication, infrastructure, or career development.”
    “So there’s actually a structural reason built into the worldviews that explains why Republicans have done better.”

    “Whats meant by strict father and nurturant parent frameworks”

    “The Democrats worldview is modelled on a nurturant parent family. It assumes that the world is basically good and can be made better and that one must work toward that. Children are born good; parents can make them better. Nurturing involves empathy, and the responsibility to take care of oneself and others for whom we are responsible. On a larger scale, specific policies follow, such as governmental protection in form of a social safety net and government regulation, universal education etc.”

    “The Republican worldview, the strict father model, assumes that the world is dangerous and difficult and that children are born bad and must be made good. The strict father is the moral authority who supports and defends the family, tells his wife what to do, and teaches his kids right from wrong. The only way to do that is through painful discipline – physical punishment that by adulthood will become internal discipline. The good people are the disciplined people. Once grown, the self-reliant, disciplined children are on their own. Those children who remain dependent (who were spoiled, overly willful, or recalcitrant) should be forced to undergo further discipline or be cut free with no support to face the discipline of the outside world.”

    “So what is the problem for the left?”

    “Do any of the Democratic Presidential candidates grasp the importance of framing?
    “None. They don’t get it at all. But they’re in a funny position. The framing changes that have to be made are long-term changes. The conservatives understood this in 1973. By 1980 they had a candidate, Ronald Reagan, who could take all this stuff and run with it.

    The progressives (Democrates) don’t have a candidate now who understands these things and can talk about them. And in order for a candidate to be able to talk about them, the ideas have to be out there.”

    “You have to be able to reference them in a sound bite. Other people have to put these ideas into the public domain, not politicians.”

    The question is, How do you get these ideas out there? There are all kinds of ways, and one of the things the Rockridge Institute is looking at is talking to advocacy groups, which could do this very well. They have more of a budget, they’re spread all over the place, and they have access to the media.

    Right now the Democratic Party is into marketing. They pick a number of issues like prescription drugs and Social Security and ask which ones sell best across the spectrum, and they run on those issues.

    They have no moral perspective, no general values, no identity. People vote their identity, they don’t just vote on the issues, and Democrats don’t understand that. Look at Schwarzenegger, who says nothing about the issues. The Democrats ask, How could anyone vote for this guy? They did because he put forth an identity. Voters knew who he is.”
    End of exerts.

    Lessons Learned
    1. “You have to be able to reference policy/values in a sound bite. Other people have to put these ideas into the public domain, not politicians (so if you are not involved with big business/media how do you do that)
    2. How do you get these ideas out there? There are all kinds of ways, and one of the things the zRockridge Institute is looking at is talking to advocacy groups, which could do this very well
    3. People vote their identity, they don’t just vote on the issues
    4. The framing changes that have to be made are long-term changes
    5. How do you get the message across of being firm but fair (i.e. not too apologetic)

    However, let’s take a look at the implications of what being a Strict Father type party.
    Strict Father (Conservative)
    In a harden up society, where apparently it is ok not to apologise, not to resign, to be strict and leviathan like, one could see which one would appeal, even to woman (sadly). In perverse terms, this has been shown to happen when a victim falls in love with the “strict father like” kidnapper. We see this strict father figure transformed into strict mummy figures, aka Nationals Collins and Bennett. This is also evidenced in Nationals attempt in attacking the current legal system and trying to destroy the right to silence (i.e. everyone is guilty before proven innocent and needs a Strict Father to sort them out). Can you see now why Schwarzenegger appealed to conservatives? No wonder Colin Craig and the conservatives are courting Nationals.

    Is this what is fundamentally the undercurrent of Nationals campaign “The Strict Father”:
    “Exactly. In the strict father model, the big thing is discipline and moral authority, and punishment for those who do something wrong. That comes out very clearly in the Bush administration’s foreign and domestic policy”

    Anything less would be patronising wouldn’t, it, particularly to those woman and men who have been put through the cultural harden up school. Any hints of apology, kindness etc would be seen as weakness.

    If votes were truly turned in Nationals favour just for a simple apology by the Labour leader (i.e. for being a man), what does it say about the fickle nature of the voter. Surely one would look at the core values of the each party? then decide, or is it just down to the basis of not being a strict enough father (hard/tough enough). My impression (biased of course), is that Labour are firm but fair. But, yes, the Labour leader did come across patronising (but really, thats a one off).

    In my own experience, this type of ‘Strict Father’ type devotees will never mention the economic hand outs they get (i.e. they have been sanatized in the form of grants, tax breaks, bail outs etc) and are soft on their ‘friends’. They also demonise the beneficiaries, and poorly educated or lowly paid on whom they depend to do the drudge work. Secretly do they think Darwin would have wanted it that way?

    To be fair to the Strict Father type model, yes children in particular require guidance; they may not require Authoritarian society with a capital A, but more of an authority with a lower case ‘a’ or nurturant parent family type.

    Nurturant parent family
    Are we seeing an ideological war between Authoritarian ‘A’ type societies (which typically benefits the status quo) and more Liberal (no not neo liberal or hug tree liberals). Liberal in the sense of ability to critical think, to question authority, to be ‘well educated’ (not just school standards pumped into ones brain). Yes I can hear some people say, you partronising git, people from strict backgrounds can be critical thinkers to.

    The book The War for Children’s Minds: by Stephen Law, may give insights into why a more Nuturant parent family approach maybe better.
    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2006/jun/03/family.family7

    In his stance he takes on the authoritarian rhetoric (strict father figure) and states that children (and I would suggest adults) would be better educated through the hard one values of the enlightmentment or if you like a more liberal approach. Liberal in this sense of using authority with a lower case ‘a’ defined as nurturing and caring, guiding and developing. A liberal or a nurturing society does not mean one without rules. It means to develop ones critical facilities to be able to debate and discuss.

    The MSM does not particularly like considering it is funded by big business. They know kiwis like black and white, hard men and woman prefer it that way, the constantly employ heuristics (rules of thumb) to make political decisions as they are probably far to busy working HARD, playing Hard and Hardening Up. Not that the ‘left’ side are angles either.

    So, in a perverse turn, does the left need to ‘harden up’ to at the very least be seen as firm but fair? Keep its messages simple and to the point on the main issues, not drawn into the minutae by corporate funded big business media.

    John, the All Blacks are hard, you just look, well impotent and quite frankly flaccid. What a pr flop. Slimy handshake anyone?

    • Chooky 19.1

      Chauncey Gardiner+100

      ….framing is what it is all about and it is a propaganda war !…the New Zealand mainstream media have been co-opted, corrupted, and are being used by the propagandists like Crosby /Texter….that is why it is so important to oppose Hoskings as moderator …He is a NACT stooge….here is Bradbury’s take:

      ‘Petition asking TVNZ to stand Hosking down as election moderator jumps to over 2500 – why Mike isn’t appropriate’

      By Martyn Bradbury / July 25, 2014

      Yesterday I joked on Twitter that the Press Gallery would attempt to twist this entire story into one about Labour putting together dossiers on Journalists and I’m told to my immense pleasure that was exactly what some Press Gallery Journalists were trying to claim yesterday in Wellington.

      • Chooky 19.1.1

        …also Morning Report is in collusion with TVNZ it would seem….there was only one interview that i heard by Suzi Ferguson on the subject of the petition by the Labour Party and general public against Mike Hoskings being the moderator of the TVNZ debates between Cunliffe and Key

        … and it was a monologue from a supporter of Mike Hoskings…I think Bill Ralston.(.ex head of news and current affairs at TVNZ)

        …this is hardly objective journalism, giving both sides of the story….we only heard why the petitioners were wrong, Labour was wrong and why Mike Hoskings was the man for the job

        TVNZ and Radionz should have big shakeup once the Labour coalition gets in because Radionz Morning Report and TVNZ are selling the New Zealand public short

        • ianmac 19.1.1.1

          Yes it was Ralston and wasn’t it nice that the nice Suzie helped him along to use the chance to denigrate Labour. Dear Suzie. Sigh.

          • Karen 19.1.1.1.1

            Bill Ralston had a Vote National billboard outside his house last election.

  19. Chooky 20

    ‘Well, well, well – Jonathan Coleman did know about FBI interest into Kim Dotcom after all’

    By Martyn Bradbury / July 25, 2014

    “Oh dear, the cover up and lies are starting to fall over now aren’t they…Coleman knew of FBI interest in Dotcom pre-residency decision.

    Government minister Jonathan Coleman knew the FBI was interested in Kim Dotcom before his officials granted the tycoon residency – a revelation which has led to accusations he misled the public

    …tick tick tick. There are so many ticking time bombs about to erupt for Key and his mass surveillance Government one isn’t sure where to begin…

  20. Herodotus 21

    What is happening with our foreign owned banks ???
    March 2014 a deposit exceeding $10k earned 3.8% p.a I note when the OCR was at a low of 2.5%
    Now with 4 increases of the OCR to 3.5% term deposits are now earning … 4.15%. There to me has been an widening of the gap between what banks are paying for their money and what they are recovering as interest charged.
    https://www.asb.co.nz/Personal/Banking-with-ASB/Interest-rates-and-fees/Term-deposits
    Yet mortgage rate increases have exceeding the 0.35% of deposit rates, and such increases in deposit rates are seen over the entire yield curve !!
    http://www.interest.co.nz/charts/interest-rates/mortgage-rates
    Ever get the feeling that we being “dealt” to ?
    Warning !!!!!! Bank profits increasing
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11209830

    • nadis 21.1

      or it could mean the yield curve is flattening which is the typical response when policy rates rise. A flatter yield curve is actually really good for borrowers as it means the implied forward rates are lower, i.e., the peak OCR is expected to be lower now rather than the expectation of a year ago. For instance if the 1 year rate is currently 5% and the 2 year rate 6%, this implies that thee 1 year rate in 1 years time should be 7%. (i.e 1.06^2/1.05). So as the yield curve flattens, your forward rates actually get lower. The forward rates are important because that’s the cost of funds that the banks are implicitly paying when they borrow money to lend out.

      And if the banks are actually building in extra margin I’m sure you’d see banks with low market share like Kiwibank put competitive rates out.

      What you really want to look at is the changes in two year rates or 3 year rates, not just the OCR rates.

      I havent had a close look so your comment may (or may not be) correct but I’ll toddle off now and have a quick look to see how longer term rates have changed versus short term.

  21. the internet/mana party want to build a new internet cable to the world..

    ..key/national wd rather spend squillions on a ‘holiday-highway’ to wellsford…

    ..different visions…eh..?

    ..different directions new zealand can go in..

    • nadis 22.1

      Except Philip you’re being very disingenuous given that the government has as recently as 3 weeks ago announced a $65 million grant toward a new trans-pacific cable. You may want to retract or modify your grammatically challenged spin.

      • phillip ure 22.1.1

        we ‘can’t afford’ to do anything about poverty..

        ..but we can afford that bullshit..?

        ..the only times that road is anything like busy..

        ..is during holiday times….

        ..my ‘different directions’ thesis still stands..

        ..and (to yr eyes maybe) punctuation-challenged/challenging..

        ..but ‘grammatically-challenged’..?

        ..where exactly..?

        • nadis 22.1.1.1

          I think you’ll find punctuation is a subset of grammar, or at least that’s what I recall from school days. Notwithstanding that, a complete sentence requires at least a subject and a predicate.

          But the real point is twofold. Local politicians in Northland want the road upgrade as do most locals. For instance, see Kelvin Davis.

          Then you are trying to claim IMP credit for something you say National isn’t doing. That’s disingenuous. See here:

          https://internetnz.net.nz/news/media-releases/2014/Pacific-cable-commitment-welcomed

          • phillip ure 22.1.1.1.1

            the holiday highway has nothing to do with northland..

            ..it is hundreds of fucken kilometres from northland..

            ..what on earth cd it have to do with northland..?

            ..it isn’t even anything to do with whangarei..

            ..kelvin davis is a fucken idiot..

            ..northland people wd like money spent on the roads in northland..

            ..not in rodney..

          • millsy 22.1.1.1.2

            So does that mean you support the closing down of Northland’s rail network? With this road built, the line will not be around for much longer..

  22. karol 23

    Dita de Boni – always a worthwhile read, and one of the few left-leaning NZ Herald columnists.

    Latest column on Jamie Whyte’s lack of emotional and social understanding.

    One thing Whyte seems to ignore, despite his huge intelligence, is that some ideas which sound perfectly rational on paper bear no resemblance to human existence as we know it.
    […]
    Jamie’s most recent pearler is that government departments and agencies should be required to declare on their home webpage, “but for this agency, your income tax rate would be X per cent lower”. This, says Jamie, is an idea so good that every other political party will oppose it.

    The problem with this – apart from the fact that it would require even more Treasury turks to calculate what X is – is that it asks the reader to ask just one question: “how much does this cost me?”. It’s a simplistic and meaningless calculation, based on a mildly sociopathic outlook on life that rejects “society” and wants to be free to operate with the least regulation possible, while denying the inevitable power imbalances and other coercive constraints that act on every and all systems.

    • vto 23.1

      Jamie Whyte is the best example in a long time of someone with too much brains and not enough sense.

      He is really is away with the fairies in how he sees that society works.

      Methinks he has been walking that genius-madness razor, lost his footing and fallen to the wrong side.

      • phillip ure 23.1.1

        i actually look forward to seeing whyte now..

        ..i view him as a speciman on a petrie-dish..

        ..and one to be observed with a high degree of interest..

        ..and he never fails to deliver..

        ..his ‘i am sulky..!..watch me pout!’-performance the other day was utterly brilliant…

        ..and/but have you seen the act candidate..?

        ..that dweebish-clown who keeps jumping out from beyond bushes and scaring the bejeesus out of the good burghers of epsom..?

        ..whoar..?

        ..and what is it with the far-right and greenery..?

        ..we have this act person with his bushes..

        ..and that colon ‘moon-landing-denier’ craig striking soft-porn/come-hither poses in the undergrowth..

        ..whilst wearing a suit..(!)

        ..whoar..!..again..

      • RedBaronCV 23.1.2

        Sorta bloke who has trouble working the washing machine?

      • Murray Olsen 23.1.3

        vto, Whyte is far from being a genius. I know a few people I rate as geniuses (or genii if you like). Whyte’s problem is that he is of mediocre intelligence, which is the reason why the tenets of libertarianism appeal to him. I agree with you that he is away with the fairies.

        Just noticed Karol’s post above – Whyte would be confident that his mere presence and a sultry smile would get any washing machine self starting.

    • Colonial Viper 23.2

      Two can play this stupid game. Let’s just have all corporates show on their front web page: if corporation tax was 10% higher your income tax could be slashed by $xxx per month.

  23. greywarbler 24

    There are disadvantages from living in the distant regions – sort of out in the boondocks. If you have a car accident to get the services of an IAG approved panelbeater in the Far North of the North Island you may have to get the car to Whangarei which from the northerly town of Kaitaia is 153 km.

    The Collision Repair Association is stunned that not a single repairer in the Far North has been approved by IAG, the Australian company that controls about 68 per cent of the insurance market. One said “This has come out of the blue, and things look bleak for us. About 80 per cent of our income comes from IAG referrals”

    CRA general manager Neil Pritchard said,… Six repairers north of Whangarei had taken part in the IAG review…..”There seems to be no logic. Some of the good shops have been left out….

    IAG had a variable pricing structure that allowed $80 per hour for gold repairers, $73 per hour for Tier 1-aligned operators and $68 for Tier 2-aligned repairers. Far North businesses, as non-aligned operators, are looking at $59 per hour….
    Panelbeaters were hoping that customers would know that they had the right to decide who repaired their vehicles…., Without a contract, however, it would be up to the panelbeaters, not IAG, to guarantee the work done.

    IAG head of corporate affairs Craig Dowling said the company felt it was necessary to undertake a review because of changes in vehicle manufacturing, technology and repair methodologies, “and to ensure our customers benefit from consistently higher repair standards and faster repair times.”
    “Unfortunately none of these repairers in this area met the required standards

    Another way of squeezing life out of regions resulting in lower services and trade, and lower returns to small businesses. Hardly offering faster repair times, and customers might not need consistently higher repair standards, normal good ones could be sufficient. I wonder if IAG give the Far North people a lower premium considering that they are in reality, dropping service levels to them.
    See article in Northland Age http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503402&objectid=11298347

    • nadis 24.1

      The real issue – and probably the cause of the point you are making is that IAG now controls in excess of 70% of the NZ insurance market. An absolute disgrace that the commerce commission continues to allow them to build market share.

      And any time you see an NZI compaign about how they are “kiwi as” just laugh out loud at their ability to tell such a big pork pie without consequences.

      • greywarbler 24.1.1

        @nadis 5.36
        Thanks for that. It said in the item that IAG had 68% of insurance market, and I imagined that wuld be referring to motor vehicle part.. So are you saying that they have got 70% of all – household, vehicle etc?? I didn’t realise they had such a big presence.

        • nadis 24.1.1.1

          I cant recall the exact detail but they recently acquired Lumley who don’t do Auto insurance and that took them over 70% in many markets. A lot of small business can only get D&O quotes from one or two providers already.

  24. s y d 25

    same story, 2 headlines

    Stuff……..Labour-pushes-community-voice

    Herald……Labour plan to restore ‘pillow tax’, petrol levies

  25. Brent Edwards just did an interesting piece on Key’s handling of Gerry Brownlee’s security breach.

    He did the unthinkable and used two recordings of Key: One going on about how to err is human (although not if you’re David Cunliffe of course); One talking about the as yet unknown MFAT official who was derelict in their public duty and deserved the chop.

    I think it’s called journalism.

    Either soundbite from Key on its own would have ordinary New Zealanders nodding about how sensible John Key is. Together they are damning.

    The common element – and what explains the complete contradiction in principles – was that in both cases he was deflecting criticism of two of his – apparently – preferred Ministers.

    Maurice Williamson must be wondering ‘why not me too, John?’.

    • Saarbo 26.1

      Brent Edwards needs to run courses for Gower, Garner, Armstrong, Trevett and co. This is damning on Key.

  26. greywarbler 27

    Petition to get a better interviewer compere for DC and JK tv discussion.
    Anker put this further up at 9.
    I’m putting it in again at the bottom with the latest comments so it gets another chance of being noticed.

    Please try and sign the petition to get Hosking taken off interviewing the political joust. There are better people than a fashionista who has became famous for being outrageous.
    Okay for the times your brain is on hold, but this is a serious interview and we don’t get much tv time..

    They want to get 5000 on the petition and you can put a message too. So far it is 3300 so about two thirds there.

    http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/television-new-zealand-calling-to-have-mike-hosking-dropped-from-moderatingthe-political-debates#share

    • unpcnzcougar 27.1

      If David wants to be the future PM then he needs to be able to handle interviewers who are biased. Key wiped the floor with Campbell (many here may disagree) over the GCSB issue and Campbell went 24 hours without taking phone calls. Cunliffe needs to front up and show that no matter what Hosking throws at him he can handle it and perhaps even get one over on him. Otherwise he runs the risk of the public thinking he was a coward especially as Key fronted Campbell.

  27. Rodel 29

    I don’t think Gerry Brownlee should get 3 months in prison or John Banks 2 years.
    One week each in the same cell would be justice enough for me.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Membership: Australia and New Zealand Electronic Invoicing Board
    The Governments of Australia and New Zealand have announced the membership of the Australia and New Zealand Electronic Invoicing Board (ANZEIB) today. This is an important step towards implementing e-Invoicing across both countries to help businesses save time and money ...
    7 days ago
  • An end to unnecessary secondary tax
    Workers who are paying too much tax because of incorrect secondary tax codes are in line for relief with the passage of legislation through Parliament late last night. The Taxation (Annual Rates for 2018-19, Modernising Tax Administration, and Remedial Matters) ...
    1 week ago
  • Chatham Islands pāua plan approved
    Efforts to reverse the decline in the Chatham Islands pāua fishery are the focus of a new plan jointly agreed between government, the local community and industry. Fisheries Minister Stuart Nash says the plan was developed by the PauaMAC4 Industry ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Bill introduced for synthetics crackdown
    The Police will get stronger powers of search and seizure to crackdown on synthetic drugs under new legislation, which makes the two main synthetics (5F-ADB and AMB-FUBINACA) Class A drugs. The Government has today introduced the Misuse of Drugs Amendment ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Blasphemous libel law repealed
    The archaic blasphemous libel offence will be repealed following the passing of the Crimes Amendment Bill today, says Justice Minister Andrew Little. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Coalition Government lassos livestock rustling
    New rules to crack down on livestock rustling will come into force following the passing of the Crimes Amendment Bill says Justice Minister Andrew Little. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Medieval law axed
    The ‘year and a day rule’ rule will be repealed following the passing of the Crimes Amendment Bill, says Justice Minister Andrew Little. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Further steps to combat tax evasion
    Further steps to combat tax evasion Revenue Minister Stuart Nash has announced New Zealand is expanding its global ability to combat tax evasion by joining forces with authorities in 30 countries and jurisdictions. Cabinet has agreed to add another ...
    2 weeks ago