TV3 debate: clear win to Goff

Written By: - Date published: 6:10 pm, November 21st, 2011 - 275 comments
Categories: election 2011, john key, phil goff - Tags: ,

Forum for discussing the TV3 Goff-Key leaders’ debate (7pm – 8:30pm).  See earlier post on the TV audience three ring “worm” circus, and how to participate if you’re so inclined.

Update: http://keyholes.co.nz/ is fact checking Key’s claims live.

Update:  A clear win to Goff – Bravo!  Goff was calm, confident, quick with his facts, and controlled the debate.  Even the damned worm loved him (and fortunately the TV audience worm was almost invisible – technical issues?).  The only time Goff looked vulnerable was on working with NZF, and that was a small part of a good debate.  Well done to TV3 for the format and for the choice of topics.  Just one thing though – Paul Henry – what were you thinking?

Update:  DPF at Kiwiblog is having a cry and blaming the ref – i.e the studio audience driving the worm.  He reckons he’s id’d three of them as known lefties.  Only 62 to go David – that’s enough stalking to keep you busy until after the election…

275 comments on “TV3 debate: clear win to Goff”

  1. higherstandard 1

    Who is the interviewer/adjudicator going to be ?

  2. andy (the other one) 2

    my Reactor App keeps crashing on my iPhone…

    DimPost drinking game in full swing!!

    • insider 2.1

      Mine shows the debate has already started so to knows what it’s doing with any opinions or moods it is currently registering

    • r0b 2.2

      Did you see the note in this mornings post about switching off wifi – must connect via the phone network…

      • andy (the other one) 2.2.1

        Was not noted in itunes store.

        Epic fail, only lucky folk with big mobile data plans need apply…

        Update:

        So turned off WiFi. Seems to work. But claims ‘debate is on air’..WTF?

  3. marsman 3

    The “expert analysis” panel includes Paul Henry!!!!?????

  4. Sookie 4

    So far the rather mesmerising worm doesn’t like Key much. It will be totally different with the ‘rigged by RWNJ’s’ TV viewers worm I expect.

  5. weka 5

    Goff is coming across very well. And the worm hates Key.

  6. felix 6

    The worm likes Goff and hates Key. Just like me. Maybe I’m a worm.

  7. Are you guys watching tv3 debate

    Where is this mystery worm that doesnt like key?

  8. Zola 8

    I’m loving the worm. Every time Goff opens his mouth it goes up! if I was a RWNJ I’d suspect it was rigged. Key looks flustered and uncomfortable – if he could see the worm he’d be shitting himself. Go Goff!

  9. rainman 9

    Excellent. Goff is well dealing to Key. Way better than the first debate.

  10. r0b 10

    Good start. An actual discussion between the leaders. Once again a much better format than the TV1 nonsense.

  11. Bearded Git 11

    Goff is destroying Key on the worm. Gamechanger!

  12. freedom 12

    Cambell is showing some backbone so far,
    but what is with Key forever putting his hand in his pocket,
    was always told that was a big no-no at any debate

    • Hami Shearlie 12.1

      Banksie was wriggling around in Key’s pocket, struggling for oxygen, but Winston had sewn the opening up tight! LOL

  13. Lazy Susan 13

    Go Phil. Nailed Key in Part 1. Shonky looks shifty and on the back foot and that’s even without him knowing how much the worm loathes him!

  14. Carol 14

    Goff looks alive, smiling, youthful, animated. Key looks tired, serious, flat.

  15. Jombo 15

    Wow where did they find thi audience. If the camera cuts to John Key the worm heads south, the total opposite of what happens when Phil Goff is on.

    The worm is a complete joke and I can almost talk that the news coverage tomorrow will be completely dominated by the worm – what a waste of time!

  16. felix 16

    WTF? Did the worm die?

  17. weka 17

    Just glad they’re not using the bloody smart phone app. The worm has disappeared now.

  18. Hey the worm likes Phil!
     

  19. Key keeps on talking through Goff.  Grrr …

    • weka 19.1

      But Goff is holding his ground and good on him for telling Key to let him finish. Asset sales up next!

    • Mac1 19.2

      Phil’s handling him- doing the wiser older brother thing. Is the worm driven by the audience of undecided voters?

      • weka 19.2.1

        Yes, but no-one in the studio can see the worm (I assume/hope they took the audience’s cell phone off them).

      • Carol 19.2.2

        Acoording to Stuff, the WORM was first responding to the live audience. It stopped when it was switched to the smart phone users at home & then flatlined:

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6007697/Election-2011-Leaders-debate

        Key says there is nothing magical about $13 per hour and Labour’s pledge to raise the minimum wage will cost jobs.

        The worm changes to the “at home” audience of people with smart phones participating.

        The worm flatlines.

        It continues on neutral despite whether Key or Goff speaking.

        The “at home” worm is a lot less impressed with Goff than the undecided studio audience.

    • tang 19.3

      Yes Key kept interrupting Goff when Goff lets him finish his views very annoying

  20. Zaphod Beeblebrox 20

    Key and his BS figures- grrrr…… how does he get away with making so much shit up?

  21. ianmac 22

    Yes Carol. Either Key is sick, funny colour, or very um sad. He has not smiled once except sickly.
    Phil looks umm Prime Ministerial. So far Key has not landed a single blow. Very strange. Key looked very chirpy in the morning ZB Q&A thing. Probably with his mates.

  22. Gruntie 23

    Go hard Goff go for keys jugular – the truth he can’t deal with

  23. gobsmacked 24

    The worm is of course, complete bollocks.

    But so far it seems to be favouring Goff. Yay! Go the bollocks!

    Key looks tetchy.

  24. fender 25

    Been a win to Phil so far. Even the worm likes Phil.

  25. freedom 26

    Goff must keep it really straight here,
    let Key do all the fancy footwork and he is sure to trip himself up

  26. freedom 27

    the at home audience worm has Nats on negative, that is a suprise

  27. Carol 28

    At the bottom of the screen, it says who is responding to produce the worm. At the moment it’s the at home audience. Goff was getting a very positive response from the undecided live audience before.

    • weka 28.1

      Ta. Was sitting on the other side of the room from the TV.

    • R 28.2

      Which I found really interesting, Carol; the live audience are seeing all the off-air smirks and sneers etc. whereas the at-home audience seem to be quite unresponsive aside from the occasional spike.

      • freedom 28.2.1

        the ‘live audience’ were in a different location from the deabte itself and most likely were shown the same broadcast stream we were.

  28. Lenore 29

    goff is doing well and also keeping composed and focussed. Heaps better so far than last debate. I have been enjoying the worm as well

  29. Sookie 30

    Key’s body language is terrible. He looks bored and petulant whenever he’s not talking, and when he’s lying his tits off, his bland mask is only a thin veneer covering the shifty bastard underneath. Do NOT get why this guy is so popular. He’s one of those things that stupid people love that I don’t, like Twilight.

    • fender 30.1

      Have to agree with you Sookie Ive never understood what people see in the guy. Hes false and it shows, whereas Phil is genuine.

  30. gobsmacked 31

    Studio audience = much smaller sample = more fluctuations in the worm. Goff scoring big on asset sales.

    At home audience = more people = less movement. Pretty flat most of the time.

  31. Key is telling a porky when he says he does not know what else he will sell …

  32. Key has that stunned mullet / deer in the headlights look.

  33. This figure of 60k new jobs is misleading. yes, 60k new jobs (maybe) but several times more lost their jobs or left the country.
     
    Good of Goff to point out the change in tune about what National were going to do with the asset proceeds – “slush fund”

  34. kriswgtn 35

    i can see the worm thing sort of- but as my tv is old as hell LOL i cant see any reaction @ all

    my next prez to ME is a flatscreen i have decided LOL

    so over missing out on things like this hahah

  35. Dan1 36

    Go Phil. Worm is on your side. Key looks as if he has just read his latest internal polling. Not so relaxed anymore.

  36. PS 37

    My kids are texting me with positive messages.

    “Phil is doing an awesome job!” from first time voter daughter. Hear, hear!

    • freedom 37.1

      good to hear, this is looking like it is going to be a large turn out for young voters , and poor voters

  37. Lenore 38

    I got a letter from national telling me to vote national in my party vote. No mention of supporting their local national candidate with my electorate vote. i am in Ohariu so it was pretty blatant

  38. weka 39

    Dribs and Drabs… lol.

  39. fabregas4 40

    Phil wins by a mile so far! I’m jumping up and down like Robin van Persie scored yet again!

  40. Bearded Git 41

    Only time Goff has lost is when he talked about not ruling out Peters in government. Key was all over him with the worm when he (Key) said he would not work with Peters.

  41. Mac1 42

    Yep, politics can be fun, kids.

    Sookie, @ 38.1, yes, I found that strange, National usually benefits if the poll is low. I detected desperation, too.

  42. PS 43

    “Phil’s cranking it tonight” so says 2nd time voter daughter on FB.

    Great to have all those Labour ads coming up as well during the programme

    Lovin this…

  43. ianmac 44

    Well John Key did cheer up a bit at the end. Perhaps because the end is in sight.
    Can see why Key has avoided Campbell all year. He has had some excellent interviews amongst the fluffy ducks.

  44. freedom 45

    Key goes into automaton on wrap up in complete contrast to his character during the debate

    such a weak human

  45. r0b 46

    WTF – why finishing so soon?

  46. Carol 47

    Garner calls it a draw…..Henry a win for John Key…. what a laugh!

  47. Where is the left winger on the panel????????

    Grrr … 

  48. gobsmacked 49

    Paul Henry “objectively” says Key won!

    Couldn’t make it up. But he did.

  49. kriswgtn 50

    Key finished with Party vote National so we can all have that blighted future
    im sure that wot he said eh
    hahahahahahhahahaha

  50. freedom 51

    the 3News chat analysis gave the win to Goff

  51. Olwyn 52

    Henry’s being on the panel was probably a condition of Key’s turning up for the debate at all.

  52. freedom 53

    it looks like Labour and the Greens bought all the ad time on the 3News stream .
    Must have gotten in really early and boxed National out.

  53. ianmac 54

    I know I’m biased but I truly think Phil won on every front.
    But Garner, Henry, Arsinov (sp?). How ridiculous to expect objective from that lot.
    Ignore the silly buggers or it will spoil the effect.

  54. Lazy Susan 55

    Garner “that’s what lost Goff the election”. WTF – is this a recording I’m watching and it’s the 27th.

  55. Trowlie 56

    I’m a self confessed RWNJ. Goff won that hands down. I really like the guy even though I dislike alot of his policies. The only time the worm turned negative for him was when he was talking about Winston and that was only for 30 secs or so.

    Good job Goff.

  56. Henry’s presence is a money issue. They paid a lot for him and have been pushing him out on TV and Radio.
    I think John C was ready for him to give a right leaning assessment and called him on it. But you can only fight the management so much.
     
    What Duncan and the other commentators need to learn from the worm is that their months of pontificating did not reflect the mood of the nation.
    Yet Duncan didn’t learn and called it a draw. Wanker.

    • Deuto 57.1

      Henry’s body language when Campbell called him on it was interesting – puffed up with his chest pressed forward ……….

  57. freedom 58

    Has Henry had an ethics transplant, he is sounding half objective

    • marxbrother 58.1

      Half objective 50/50 between National and Act more like it. Henry is a total rent-a-tory. he is a self-confessed Margaret Thatcher fan- says it all really. I found the ‘panel’s’ verdict totally surreal. it was as if they had watched a completely different debate. I have just seen a genuine attempt by the right leaning msm to spin a clear victoryy to Goff into a defeat or at best draw (Garner). Garner twice mentioned people had “voted” for National (referring to polls) already!! What an idiot. Great company sitting next to Henry. I could almost feel John Campbell’s embarrassment at the hard neck of those two. Even the 3rd commentator (apologies as I can’t recall her name) all but declared National had won the election because of some sort of cyclic trend!! Bloody hell! Why have an election at all…?

  58. Carol 59

    Hmmm. The discussion about the validity or not of the worm made some good points. But would the panel have made those points if the worm had liked Key more and Goff less?

    A very right leaning panel!

  59. ianmac 60

    Tellingly Garner said Henry was going to walk out because the worm was favouring Goff. Fancy that from an “objective” commentator!

  60. Blue 61

    Can someone tell me why the hell Paul Henry was considered a suitable candidate for the panel?

    Is there some sort of unknown value in having a guy who was booted from his last job for making racist comments and is Tory right down to his underwear and makes no secret of it?

    • Tom Gould 61.1

      The panel made up of arch-Tory and MonKey bestie Henry, well known Tory Therese, and Duncan Donuts who has been saying on TV and radio for the last 3 years that Goff cannot win. I guess that is what passes for ‘fair and balanced’ in the MSM of today. Donuts even let it slip that Henry blew a fuse over the worm favouring Goff. And of course, we had no analysis of the worm, which was overwhelmingly positive for Goff, because that would not be a good look for a panel who all called the election as walk over win for their bestie Johnboy. Unbelievable. FFS Henry spent all his time running Key’s lines and crapping on Goff. He even tried to run the ‘asset sales’ as a win for Key? In a mature media environment, it would be called what it is, corrupt.

      • Zaphod Beeblebrox 61.1.1

        Key’s argument was that selling assets in a recession is a good move!!! Because of the good share price presumably…..????

        and Henry thought that was a winning argument…..

        and he is a pundit…???

  61. Dv 62

    Key had the same lines in 2008

  62. I wonder how he whale is coping tonight.
    Probably pacing around his parents basement, scream about living space for the volk and how his generals have betrayed him (just before he grabs those tattered glossy magazines and heading for the toilet for some “self-medicating”).
     

  63. ghostwhowalksnz 64

    Farragoblog is all ready calling for executions at dawn for the worm panellists.

  64. idlegus 65

    well i think i will be watching the election night coverage on maori tv.

  65. Zola 66

    I’m so disgusted and angry with the panel. I’m sick of living in a country where the media does not understand the role the fourth estate should play in a democracy. Goff won – so they shill for National on the panel. Do we have to take to the streets to get a democracy going here?

  66. tsmithfield 67

    Goff did well in the first half of the debate. I guess running a fluffy nice commentary on how he would like the world to be is going to engender some feel-good factor.

    However, it really didn’t matter how well Goff did in the rest of the debate. The key point was when Goff was confronted with the NZ First spectre. IMO that was the deciding point of the debate. Voters were confronted with the prospect of Peters holding the government to ransom, and, as the worm indicated, they did not like it one bit. For that reason alone swinging voters are going to favour National. That single point annulled any benefit that Goff may have gained anywhere else in the debate. Similar to the way a knock-out punch annuls the rest of the fight.

    For that reason, IMO, Key clearly won the debate.

    • Crashcart 67.1

      That is the same scare mongering Key was trying to use. The fact is that Geoff clearly said he would only enter into partnership with NZ1 if they signed an agreement. If Winston is unwilling too then he won’t be in government. Simple. either Winston signs on and provides stable government or he watches from teh sidelines perhaps after another election where he dies due to crippling the current one.

      • tsmithfield 67.1.1

        Nah. Goff said he would trust Peters to do the right thing and sign an agreement for stable government. Peters has confirmed again that he won’t be offering confidence and supply but will be voting on an issue by issue basis. On that basis, Goff is trusting Peters to lie. I guess that is the one thing anyone can trust Peters to do.

        But the problem is that a coalition in which a proven liar (Peters) is a member is probably not any more stable than a government in which Peters is on the cross benches.

        • mik e 67.1.1.1

          Key has broken every promise and lied his way throuh this term in govt .
          Key is a vain power addict and proven liar so they’ll be best buddies after the election ipredict

    • DJL 67.2

      Took a punch maybe, but Phil still won on points.

    • felix 67.3

      Lolz tsmith. Of course that was the defining moment for you, it was the only moment that went against Phil in any way.

      Did Key get into positive territory at all? Maybe once, very slightly?

      You’re a sad joke mate, even for a troll.

  67. John Dalley 68

    Paul Henry objective? he does not have an objective bone in his body. Rhge plonker is National plus nothing less.

  68. Olwyn 69

    There is a poll “Who will be the PM on 27/11/11?” down on the right on the TV3 home page – at this stage 53% Goff, 47% Key. I do not know how many have responded, it doesn’t say, but I added myself to the Goff list.

    • weka 69.1

      I did too.
       
      Have you seen the pictures of Key and Goff on the front page of TV3’s website? Goff looking like a PM, Key looking like he’s about to cry.

  69. Nick K 70

    John Campbell objective? he does not have an objective bone in his body. the plonker is a greenie. he is on record as having voted alliance a few elections ago.

    • Crashcart 70.1

      OMG! John Campbell voted a few elections ago. How ever could he be un biased. We all know that media shouldn’t have the right to vote because that is the only way they could be objective….right?

    • JC is pretty professional regardless of his personal held beliefs, didn’t step all over the candidates and delivered a good debate format.
      He wasn’t afraid of losing control of the debate and let it run. It’s a bit like fishing. You let the fish run out a bit and then wind them back in. He let them run with their comments, tried to ensure fairness, popped in few questions.

    • logie97 70.3

      Nick – Henry is a failed National Party Candidate. Voting for a party is one thing. Standing in an election is quite another …

  70. Sanctuary 71

    It was a serious error of judgement having Paul Henry on the TV3 panel. What value will he add?

    • the sprout 71.1

      all Henry did was undermine the credibility of the panel

      • gingercrush 71.1.1

        What was there to undermine? A wishy-washy academic, Campbell (nough said) and a political journalist that always gets it wrong and is at the least slightly better than the other two political journalists on TV 3.

    • Ianupnorth 71.2

      Consider this, maybe the inclusion of Mr Specs, soon to move to Aussie, was to get more of his ilk to watch, and maybe they watched Shonkey get shown up for the fraud he is.

  71. Joe 72

    what did phil goff say in that whole debate that actually had any firepower the only policy he did say was the first $5000 tax free. John Key to me won especially at the assets sales he still have control over our assests we just wont be getting full income from them. GO NATIONAL

    • Crashcart 72.1

      So I guess you missed the discussion about paying dole to subsidise aprentiships. Raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour. That is as much if not more than Key.

      • Joe 72.1.1

        But john key is trying to get our selfs out of our debt problem so we dont get a greek type riot. John key is actually trying to solve a problem while phil goff is trying to make it worse. By increasing out minimum wage to $15 and removing taxes on the first $5000 his way of paying for all of that is borrowing money from overseas banks. do we really need that extra debt especially after the Christchurch crisis.

        • rosy 72.1.1.1

          A debt problem that National created.

          • sdm 72.1.1.1.1

            So national created an earthquake. You are seriously stupid

            • rosy 72.1.1.1.1.1

              No, National created unaffordable tax cuts that the GST rise didn’t cover. They also spent billions bailing out finance companies.

              • sdm

                Labour left the country with a decade of deficits. The fact that the government may turn it around whilst facing the earthquake is remarkable

                • rosy

                  The ‘decade of deficits’ was a forecast line for whichever party was in government after the 2008 election, and due to the supposed impact of the global financial crisis. You should be cheering that Labour had paid down debt otherwise the GFC would have had a much greater impact on the NZ economy – as Bill English noted before Key started using the phrase completely out of context (in other words lying about what it meant).

                  I reckon the knew they could get away with their indiscriminate borrowing because they had decided early on to use this phrase as a cover.

        • the sprout 72.1.1.2

          National borrowed 40 billion in three years, their alone plan is borrow and hope

          • Joe 72.1.1.2.1

            so did labour when they were in power. but during john keys time in power we had a recession, the christchurch earthquake and the pike river mine disaster now he is trying to fix it. but what is phil goff going to do to tackle this problem? he is going to put more GST on veggies, is that really going to help us with this problem.

            • felix 72.1.1.2.1.1

              Wow.

              No Joe, Labour paid off ALL of the govt debt. In 2008 when National took office we were debt free.

              And no, Phil Goff wants ZERO GST on fruit and veg.

              • Joe

                My mistake if he did want no GST on veggies but what is he going to do to fix our debt problem and carry on the $15 wage when he has no policy to pay for both of them. he is no helen clark and he will borrow money from over sea bankers to pay for all of that

                • rosy

                  Joe, the minimum wage is not about borrowing.

                  And Labour wants to introduce a capital gains tax, so more people, especially those who can afford to, pay tax.

                  They don’t want to increase tax for low income people – that’s why they’ll have a $5,000 tax-free rate. They will put tax up for earnings over $150,000 per year to 39 percent.

                • felix

                  Joe.

                  National is borrowing 300 million every week.

                  Labour left office with ZERO govt debt. National has put us into debt AND wants to sell our best strategic assets.

                  How much fucking simpler do you need it?

              • Herodotus

                Felix you need correcting here 😎
                You will see that overseas debt marginally increased over the 5th Lab govt. Then there is also the locally sourced debt that comes from the likes of EQC (One reason why overseas debt has increased and locally sourced debt has diminished) Part of our “Asset base” that is offset by our debts is the $12b of debtors regarding studen loans- The same that Peters commented on Q&A by giving a 50% rebate will cost nothing !! go figure
                http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/extfin/e3/notes.html

            • Zaphod Beeblebrox 72.1.1.2.1.2

              National want to blow $20Bill on roads to nowhere. then they want to subsidize ETS carbon credits for polluters.

              Then the have the cheek to complain about Labours CGT and raising teh super age.

              Great fiscal responsibility there.

            • Colonial Viper 72.1.1.2.1.3

              since Key is going to give the private investors most of the power asset Board seats, its actually no fraking government control, 51% or not.

        • Draco T Bastard 72.1.1.3

          Ask your hero Jonkey – he’s the one set to put us into debt forever so that him and his rich mates can live like kings.

    • freedom 72.2

      so during a period where costs are climbing you want NZ to have less income, … nice one

      joe, you do realise that even with the sale of Assets National will still be borrowing billions and billions of dollars every year to meet its current obligations

      • Joe 72.2.1

        do you realise that we still get money from those assets. we are going to have 51% control over those assets so we will still be in control of them. we will get billions from selling part control of our assets this would give us funding for the reconstruction of christchurch and many other projects while getting a nice income from them too. plus did phil goff even say how he is going to keep the $15 minimum wage going? i doubt he did

  72. Luva 73

    I would give this one to Goff just. The worm is more a distraction then anything. The comments in my longie were more about the bloody worm than what the boys were saying.

    I thought both leaders waffled using emotive commentary rather than providing substantive answers.

  73. Barry 74

    Same three commentators on TV3 on election night?

    • gingercrush 74.1

      Yes but they’re gonna have Linda Clarke and Chris Trotter on as well. I have always enjoyed Clarke and Trotter drives me insane but he always has a few interesting things to say. Though TV 3 are also having Tamihere and Hide for some obscene reason.

      I’ll likely watch TV 3 for the Clarke factor and simply because in 2008 I hated how TV One did electorate counting.

      • Memespree NZ 74.1.1

        Tamihere is good value; did an excellent issues programme called “think tank.” Sundays on 3.

        Hide? Really? Do we *have* to? what, he gonna dance the votes out for us?

  74. Oscar 75

    As soon as Paul Henry came on I switched off. You have got to be joking! I might even bother to go and vote on Saturday. I sense a turning point.

  75. NattyM 76

    I’m pretty sure I was watching a different debate to the 3 panellists. It was a joke having Paul Henry on the panel – all its credibility was destroyed having him pretend to be objective.Goff won by a country mile with the only down patch the accursed Winston.
    I thought Goff did exceptionally well. Key improved a little, especially in the last couple of segments but nowhere enough to come up to even terms with Goff in terms of the overall debate.

  76. Carol 77

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Goff-charms-the-worm/tabid/419/articleID/233494/Default.aspx

    Phil Goff charmed the worm and on the basis of a wriggly line across the bottom of TV screens beat John Key in a live debate on Monday night.
    […]
    It liked Mr Goff’s call for equal education for all and his complaints about the growing inequality gap, and spiked on raising the minimum wage.

    It didn’t like Mr Key comparing New Zealand with other countries and was unimpressed with his explanation that the global recession had been difficult to deal with.

    Quoting Treasury figures was a definite turn off and that drove Mr Key down as well.

  77. gobsmacked 78

    It’s not just that Henry is on, it’s that he’s on unchallenged.

    The correct response is to smile and say “If you’re objective, Paul, I’m a purple pixie. If Key had bitten the head off a kitten in the debate you’d still be saying he won. Now, let’s return to the real world and discuss the issues …”

    But instead they just nod. The “centrist” poodles are worse than the “right wing” terriers, because they give them a fake credibility as part of a “panel of experts”. Fuck ’em.

  78. Sorry John, but whatever it is you were selling, i didn’t buy it and i don’t think many others, if they were intellectually honest, would either.

    Phil looked the part and sounded the part.

  79. Clear win to Goff.
    Worm hated Snakey, loved Goff.

  80. As predicted by me, the worm was overtaken by labour people, never thought it would be this though.

    Again 60-40 to Key, but no one would of switched votes. The manipulation of the worm by the studio audience was LOL funny, (I don’t go as far as whaleoil to say they were all labour plants) But hell the people in the audience couldn’t care less what the politicians were saying they were voting Goff up and Key down, in fact I might go as far to say, national supporters were doing this to make, Labour look silly.

    It was the highlight of the election for me, ya got to be more subtle than that labour. Desperate time calls for desperate measures I guess.

    Anyway there will be a lot of disappointed labour voters come Saturday.

    My final election prediction and perhaps its time for people here to actually put their money where their mouths are and make a prediction.

    National 51%
    Labour 27%
    Greens 9%
    Maori 7%
    NZfirst 3%
    Act 1.5%
    United 1 %
    Mana .25%
    Others .25%

    • Oh Brett, there you go again. It would not have made a difference to you what the worm (or anything else for that matter) said. You would find some other reason to find fault.
      On the one hand – credibility
      On the other hand – you

    • logie97 81.2

      “… but no one would of switched votes.”
      You have a nice command of the English Language – speaks volumes about you old chap and rather colours your arguments.

      You seem to be predicting that the M.P are going to get in excess of 8 members (the 7 electorate and 1 plus – List). Are you sure you understand the electoral system?

    • gingercrush 81.3

      Why do you have Maori party at 7%?

      • felix 81.3.1

        Because he can’t count.

      • McFlock 81.3.2

        because they support national 🙂

        I still think it’s a tossup whether national will be able to form a govt. I don’t believe they’ll get 50% of the vote, but they might get a majority once the <5% no electorate votes are discarded.

        The edge of the coin is nats forming a coalition with someone to get into govt (not including taking a 1-3 seat party as a buffer beyond 50% of the house)

      • Brett Dale 81.3.3

        Party vote! The greens always poll too high and the maori party too small.

        • freedom 81.3.3.1

          dream on Brett, I firmly believe the Maori Party are sinking fast, they are realising their comfy coalition was basically a backstabbing of those that got them in and this election will be a disaster for them. You should hear what some of their grass root ex-supporters are saying. It’s not very pretty.

          the Greens, despite the matey matey talk Nats tried to spin, will have their biggest turn out yet.

  81. Glenn 82

    The similarities between Henry and Banks amazes me.
    Could there be a genetic link?

  82. gingercrush 83

    I bet you lefties love that worm now. It was pathetic of you all to scream how unfair it would be in the first place and I have no idea why Farrar and Hooten thought the worm would be good for John Key. Stupid the both of them. Was the worm hijacked by the left probably (not that I’m against it) so I don’t really have time to listen to you lefties cry about the panel. They always seem bias when they’re against your side meanwhile the right are screaming bias towards TV 3. Its all the same bullshit. I note you weren’t calling the media nearly as bias last week when the majority of the media went negative on John Key. Labour in particular have been very good at manipulating social media, online polls and comments and National too have a good habit of doing the same. Personally I don’t think it says much about the worthiness of the internet. Our increasingly mobile lives will only add further troubles.

    I do await the cries of conspiracy when on Saturday National does get over the line. I can’t see the left or Bomber eating humble pie. Instead the same pathetic excuses will be made about how Labour and Phil Goff were never given a chance and how bias the media were etc etc etc. The right will descend into sheer ignorance, forgetting that just 9 years ago the right-wing were in some serious trouble.

    • felix 83.1

      You’re confusing the home viewer worm (which many thought would be biased by the demographic of smartphone owners being more likely to be rich) and the studio panel worm (which most thought would be meaningless.

    • gingercrush 83.2

      I never brought that excuse. Plenty of rich people vote the left. Smaller than the right of course but of those high income left-wing voters also tend to be more politically active than the right.

      • felix 83.2.1

        You don’t have to buy the theory, but you’re pretending the theory related to the studio worm and that’s wrong.

        • gingercrush 83.2.1.1

          Well I’m not saying that.

          Bah the blog is being silly and not remembering my name and email.

          [lprent: Sorry, I had to turn on a caching system earlier when the site was getting overloaded. Part of that is that it stops sending through the details from your cookie in the HTML as those details can wind up on someone else’s browser from a cached copy. Bad idea for privacy. Logging in bypasses the issue as it is just for people who aren’t logged in.

          I’m still getting occasional spiking as significant numbers hit the system at the same time, so it will be half an hour before I flip it back to normal. Then I have to figure out how to debug the javascript client side version for next time. ]

          • felix 83.2.1.1.1

            Yeah you did:

            It was pathetic of you all to scream how unfair it would be in the first place

            Sheesh ginge it was only half an hour ago too.

            • gingercrush 83.2.1.1.1.1

              I was talking about those at home not the bloody stupid studio worm.

              • felix

                Oh bullshit ginge. Why do you bother?

                • gingercrush

                  This site never earlier said anything about the panel. It, along with John Pagani’s comments kept referring to the home audience. That is what I was talking about and that is what I was referring to. You can believe what you want.

                  • felix

                    Who cares about some stupid iPhone game?

                  • freedom

                    ‘the panel’ has been referred to here and in the media in conflicting ways. The at-home panel, the in-studio panel and the ‘experts’ panel have all been called ‘the panel’ so there is some jsutifiable confusion.

                    Earlier in the thread, ie last night, the distinctions between which we were all referring to was fairly clear

          • mickysavage 83.2.1.1.2

            Yep possibly a DOS.

            The RWNJs are really worried …

            EDIT: The comments are not being nestled either.

    • lprent 83.3

      I’m looking forward to the most interesting coalition building exercise since 1996.

    • Draco T Bastard 83.4

      I bet you lefties love that worm now.

      It’s still bollocks. I’m wondering why everyone is going on about it.

      Our increasingly mobile lives will only add further troubles.

      Give it a couple of years and mobility is going to seriously decrease.

      I do await the cries of conspiracy when on Saturday National does get over the line.

      I don’t think NAct will get over the line but I said that last election too. Although, there’s a difference. Last election I thought it would be close, this time I think it will be a landslide to the left. People really don’t want to sell our assets and only the left are promising not to.

  83. Wow interesting tweet from John Campbell.

    “CampbellLiveNZ
    A clarification: The debate was a 3 News leaders debate. It was hosted by @JohnJCampbell but Campbell Live had no input into the panelists.”

    He is obviously disgusted at Henry’s inclusion.

    Why don’t we tell MSM that this is fcuked that they seek trying to manipulate the opinions of ordinary Kiwis?

  84. AB 85

    Having Henry on might have helped – I mean to have someone who is so loathsome at the personal level backing Key in the face of all the evidence to the contrary? Might just taint Key by association.
    But the rest should just have laughed at him when he said “I think you know me” … “I can be objective”.

    • logie97 85.1

      AB – don’t we wish that were true.
      Unfortunately, Henry is a darling of the Right and a lot of the pleb viewers of Breakfast TV indicated their lack of class when they failed to understand the disgraceful discussion over the previous Governor General. The same crew who couldn’t recognise Key’s lack of any “nouce” or acumen either.

  85. Adrian 86

    Henry was brilliant. He just lost National the election. Quote ” They can govern alone “.

  86. I think the worm indicates reactions to positive or negative phrases, it’s not a score of the debate.

    I thought Goff started much better, he looked relaxed and confident and performed accordingly. He got a bit uncomfortable being reminded of the Labour/Green history, and struggled with Winston, and then reverted to unconvincing recital for his closing.

    For most of the debate Key looked uncomfortable and spoke lethargicly. He improved in the last part and the Winston segment seemed to lift him. He finished with a better close.

    Scoring it on points over the whole debate Goff would come out on top.

    But the critical part was on Winston and Goff didn’t have a credible response – he’s stuck needing Winston to have any chance of success although he wouldn’t admit it.

    Because Goff couldn’t adequately deal with the Winston elephant in the room he didn’t succeed with this debate. Most people accept that Goff’s a nice guy and poor people deserve sympathy and help, but to look like an election winner you have to have options available that are acceptable to voters. On this Goff lost.

    • felix 87.1

      Poor people don’t deserve sympathy you patronising fuckwit.

      Try dignity.

    • ropata 87.2

      PG WTF are you smoking?
      The elephant in the room is the GFC and the economy.
      National’s plan is to flog off our vital infrastructure and dream about a magical future with smiley johnny boy.
      Labour’s plan is to build a fairer society and actually govern not try and sell NZ to foreign banksters.

      Goff rocked Key in the TVNZ debate, despite its egregious format and obnoxious “moderation”.
      This time Key was exposed and the excuses for his poor record just don’t wash any more.

      Although Key did look bored and relaxed about the whole thing, pretty much sums up his careless leadership style I suppose.

    • Crashcart 87.3

      Actualy I thought geoff had the better closing. If you drive down the road and read the National billboards that was pretty much John Keys closing statement. There was nothing beyond simple one line throw aways. Funny after having Slatter on 60 mins yesterday proclaiming that Geoff was a series of bumper stickers to then see the PM be exactly that.

    • Draco T Bastard 87.4

      I think…

      I’m still not sure that I’ve seen any evidence that you’re capable of thinking.

      and poor people deserve sympathy and help,

      You really are a condescending prick aren’t you?

      It’s not that they need help so much but that society needs a socio-economic system that doesn’t create poverty. They’re willing to work and better themselves and society and yet our socio-economic system denigrates and abuses them as well as preventing them from having access to the resources needed for them to do that and it does it so that a few can be rich.

    • Ianupnorth 87.5

      Hey Pete, as number 8 on the UF party list what percentage of vote will they need for you to get in?

    • freedom 87.6

      PeteG
      i am one of those poor people you smugly wash away with your blithe comments. The next time i am in Dunedin i am going to make the effort and i will be in touch, hopefully have a face to face chat with you. As an old man i used to fish with said when asked why he disliked telephones, ” i prefer to talk to people face to face’.

      I have to witness for myself what self-delusion looks like. You really need to wake up and realise that many many New Zealanders are sick to the back teeth with condescending arsewipes like yourself who have some high and mighty ideas about what is wrong with the world but the split second that a glimmer of reality is presented you go running back to the apron strings of greed and corruption. This would be fine if it wasn’t for the trail of warm piss that you leave behind for others to clean up.

      i am betting you are so scared of the status quo being removed that your votes on Saturday will go something like this,
      Electorate: National
      Party: National

      • Pete George 87.6.1

        Your are wrong on both counts about how I will vote (and I’ve never voted that way).

        I’d be happy to talk to you face to face, it has definite advantages over blogs online.

        I’ve done a lot of talking face to face lately, you might be surprised about what that’s achieving. I’m getting a lot of support for what I’m proposing here – the CEO for a major social services organisation has just indicated support, as well as all political parties and most of the likely new MPs. Local representation is growing.

        • The Voice of Reason 87.6.1.1

          You have already confirmed that you will be voting for the candidate most likely to beat the Labour candidate. Obviously that’s not you, so that’s one tick National’s way. Party vote? Well, you have no loyalty to UF, having been a member for, oh, I dunno, five minutes, and your candidacy appears to be an exercise in self promotion. And you refuse to say which party you will vote for, which is an insult to Peter Dunne and a clear hint that it would be embarrassing to tell the truth publicly.

          So, yeah, two ticks National from PG. Two ticks. One flea.

          • Pete George 87.6.1.1.1

            You seem to be obsessed with making things up on this. All i refuse to do is play your game.

            How unusual is it for a candidate to self promote? Do you know what elections are for?

            Funny you suggest I have no loyalty to United Future, I mostly get criticised on blogs for promoting United Future too much.

            • The Voice of Reason 87.6.1.1.1.1

              Not making anything up, Pete. It’s all based on your own utterances and much like your hero Key, you can end the speculation by just being honest for a change.

              • You’re the one who’s being dishonest here. You make things up to try and diss, that’s not speculation, it’s deliberate misrepresentation. Seems to be standard Labour procedure. If you had a strong case of your own you wouldn’t need to resort to smears.

  87. McFlock 88

    It’s official – the worm has turned 🙂

  88. Zaphod Beeblebrox 89

    How much money for those assets? $5B?? $7B?? Treasury have no idea. Who knows what state the share market will be in by next year?

  89. Well done, Mr. Goff.

    I do have to say though that it was poor form of TV3 to put Paul Henry in the media panel, what with him being a Former National Party Candidate. Poor poor form.

    For the record, even though I like the way the worm bounced, I still think that it’s a poor substitute for rational and reasoned debate and thought.

  90. hoom 91

    I was at work so couldn’t watch, can’t seem to find a link to anything but the now dead live feed on the TV3 website, anyone got a functioning link to the video?

  91. McFlock 92

    “EDIT: The comments are not being nestled either.”

    maybe they can spoon? 🙂

  92. QoT 93

    It is late and I am sleepy, but I just wanted to throw into the ring that I would be so, so much more on board with keyholes.co.nz if they would just fucking link to their fucking sources.

    Unless of course it’s meant to just be a site for people already voting Labour to have a commiserative circlejerk about Mr Key’s nasty lies.

    They have to know what lines he’ll be running. They’d get plenty of backup links to media stories just by getting a graduate to go through old Standard posts where people have compiled lists of Key’s bullshit. Instead, we get an obviously-partisan, completely-un-backed-up “yeah but nah he’s a liar” list of statements. It’s enough to make a girl join the party just to make them get it right …

  93. Zaphod Beeblebrox 94

    Fair point- the panellists mouths were moving but absolutely nothing interesting or illuminating came from their mouths for the entire 5 minutes. In the end, Garner and Henry predicted Banks would win but could not give single coherent reason why. Nor could Henry explian why JK’s argument that selling assets during an economic crisis is an election winning idea.

    Bet Arseneau wished she never agreed to go on with Henry.

  94. PS 95

    Doing the traps on FB…(hope the link comes up)

    A trader’s extreme measures for that extra buck…

    Just for a laugh before you all go to bed

    John Key Shocker
    http://www.youtube.com

  95. Holy feck. TV3’s lead story tonight suggests that the audience was infiltrated. No report about how the panel was so obviously infiltrated.

    Grrr …

    • mike 97.1

      Wormgate. Lol. Maybe John Key will get the police to issue search warrants or get to the bottom of it using the covert surveillance legislation. On principle of course.

    • happynz 97.2

      Rachel Smalley (my wife has nicknamed her Miss Phone Sex for her breathy news reading style) was also dutifully reporting the same. Rachel was using words like ‘seemingly’, ‘infiltrate’ and the classic ‘leftists’ to frighten any sensitive early news watchers.

  96. hoom 98

    Still haven’t found link but Nightline just ran a story alleging that the ‘undecideds’ were infiltrated by Labour activists O_o

    Edit: I don’t understand why this got put above older comments 😕

    [lprent: because a comment got deleted that had comments as children to it. It screws up the comment order until I fix it up. In this case I dulcet the high server loading earlier. Morning job. ]

    • mike 98.1

      I have to admit the worm would consistently drop sharply when Key started speaking, and climb sharply when Goff started speaking, esp. in the first half. I did raise an eyebrow. If Labour fans did get in there, they could have been more subtle, maybe they realised that in the second half hehe.

      Who cares, the worm is a useless distraction anyway. Ban the worm and encourage people think for themselves for once.

      I didn’t need a worm to tell me that Goff looked, and argued better. He clearly won, only the margin is debatable. And only on the Winston question did he take a hit. It’s no secret that Labour might, maybe, sadly, end up needing Winston. That’s MMP. Come on. Key really said “I don’t think I need Winston,” and Goff said “It’s possible I might.”

      Then I see Paul Henry’s face? Wtf. So Garner calls it a draw (which means Goff won), Henry says Key, (JC: “Can we trust you to be objective?” lol – big hint there audience), and whatserface in the green says the elcetion is as good as over and National will win because of some cycle (somebody call the moonman, your bride has been found).

      And now Campbell is tweeting to disown the choice of panel members, I’m guessing owing to complaints about a lack of balance. Nah no media bias to see here, move along.

      And Paul Henry’s gonna be there on Sat too? Ug. What’s my other options… Espiner… ew… Hello Maori channel. If things start looking good for the left I might go to tv3 just to watch Henry’s face turn red/tantrum/meltdown/seizure (pleaz god, pleaz). If things look bad I don’t think I could handle the Henry (I’m happy like an 8 year old who just won the race) grin.

    • hoom 99.1

      Watched it, Garner & Henry are on crack or something.
      Garner is an attack dog when he has a bit of a scandal but his overall political attitude is pretty clear.

      Henry is just an embarrassment to NZ society along with Holmes & Laws.
      Put them on together & call it Faux NewZ.

  97. ak 100

    So the worm has turned.

    Sleep soundly brothers and sisters, for the knives are now glistening with the putrid tang of fear.

    Hold a crucifix close.

    It’s Winnieslaughter II on Lucifer’s Hatewagon, no innocent safe.

  98. dad4justice 101

    Oh how nice that Mr Goff beat Mr Key in the wimpish wankfest! Dam fools and Winny laughs.

    God, please help New Zealand.

  99. Carol 102

    Wel, in the end, (as the saying goes) the only poll that matters is this Saturday.

    I did think Goff looked far more confident and positive. Key looked worried and anxious.

    This Stuff article analyses the worm responses, showing some subtleties indicating the audience weren’t clearly split on party lines on some of the minor details of the debate.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6008559/Phil-Goff-declared-winner-in-election-debate

  100. swan 103

    Phil Goff won? I didn’t think so. As soon as they got onto minimum wages Goff lost it in my eyes. He still refuses to debate minimum wages within any kind of economic framework, instead just talking about what people “deserve” to get paid. Demand curves slope down, Phil!

  101. Observer 104

    Campbell, competent
    Goff, on top like a winner
    Key, thin and dodgy

    The panel (to be kind to them) simply freakish.

    • the sprout 104.1

      The panel (to be kind to them) simply freakish.
      true, that is both kind and accurate. 😆
      it was one of those wierd moments where you wonder if you’ve accidentally changed the channel, or had a stroke or something.
      not sure which debate they were commenting on but it surely wasn’t the one i’d just watched with John Campbell hosting

  102. Zaphod Beeblebrox 105

    Well he did have a number of Treasury papers to quote. And he did quantify the boost to the economy of the extra spending power low paid workers would have.

    Apart from that …. he didn’t have any economic arguments…..a bit like the Romans in Life of Brian.

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    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    6 days ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    6 days ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    6 days ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
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    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    6 days ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    7 days ago
  • Asking for food
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    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    7 days ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
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    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    7 days ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    7 days ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    1 week ago
  • An odious bill
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
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    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
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    1 week ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
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    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
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    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    1 week ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    1 week ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
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    1 week ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
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    1 week ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Local bodies
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    2 weeks ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Is this study legit? 5 questions to ask when reading news stories of medical research
    Hassan Vally, La Trobe University Who doesn’t want to know if drinking that second or third cup of coffee a day will improve your memory, or if sleeping too much increases your risk of a heart attack? We’re invested in staying healthy and many of us are interested in reading ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    2 weeks ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    2 weeks ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago

  • Minister of Finance and Sport and Recreation to visit Japan and Vietnam
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson departs tomorrow for events and meetings in Japan and Vietnam.  While in Japan, he will discuss economic and fiscal issues including meeting with the Minister of Finance, Taro Aso, and Minister of Economic and Fiscal Policy, Yasutoshi Nishimura. He will meet with the Minister of Education, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    8 hours ago
  • Dashboard tracks housing progress
    The Government’s Housing Dashboard released today confirms record numbers of state houses are under construction and shows the Government build programme is gaining momentum.  “After nine years of inaction, and a hands-off attitude from the previous government we’re starting to see things move in the right direction for housing,” says ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • Ministerial Statement on the International Convention Centre fire
    Mr Speaker, I wish to make a ministerial statement relating to the Auckland fire. The Government is closely monitoring the situation with the fire at the NZ International Convention Centre and is thankful that everyone is now safe. Firefighters are doing an incredible job managing the fire and bringing it ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    11 hours ago
  • Government invests in Te Reo, environmental data research
    The Government is investing in ambitious research that will digitise Te Reo, grow the low-carbon protein efficient aquaculture industry, help interpret environmental trends, and large data sets says Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods. The four projects range from teaching Siri to speak Te Reo to crunching large environmental ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Government announces next steps as part of a comprehensive plan to fix skills gap
    A new education-to-employment brokerage service to strengthen connections between local employers and schools. Funding for more trades focused ‘speed-dating’ events to connect schools with employers. Promotional campaign to raise profile of vocational education. The Government is taking action to increase the number of young people taking up vocational education and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • Corrections Amendment Bill passes third reading
    A Bill to improve prison security and ensure the fair, safe, and humane treatment of people in prison while upholding public safety has passed its third reading. Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis says the Corrections Amendment Bill makes a number of changes to ensure the Corrections Act 2004 is fit for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Ngāi Tahu CEO appointed to NZ-China Council
    Minister for Māori Development, Nanaia Mahuta, has selected Arihia Bennett MNZM, Chief Executive Officer of Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu, as the Te Puni Kōkiri appointed representative on the New Zealand-China Council. The New Zealand-China Council (the Council) was established in 2012 as a New Zealand led and funded organisation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Southern Response claims move to EQC
    Responsibility for processing the small number of Southern Response claims still to be settled will be transferred to EQC by the end of the year. “As claim numbers reduce, it no longer makes sense for the Crown to have two organisations processing the remaining Canterbury claims,” Grant Robertson says. “Since ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Bowel screening starts in Whanganui
    Health Minister David Clark is encouraging Whanganui residents to take up the opportunity for free bowel screening, which can detect cancer early when it’s easier to treat.   Over the next two years 12,000 Whanganui locals, aged 60 to 74 will be invited to participate in the National Bowel Screening ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Pacific Peoples Minister to attend Our Ocean Conference in Norway
    Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio, heads to Oslo today to represent New Zealand at the sixth Our Ocean Conference, which is being hosted by the Norwegian Government from the 23-24 October. “The Our Ocean Conference mobilises real action on issues like marine plastic pollution and the impacts of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government announces 27 percent increase in Trades Academy places
    Two secondary-school initiatives are being expanded as part of the Government’s plan to see more young New Zealanders take up a trade to help close the skills gap.   This includes the largest single increase in Trades Academy places in recent years. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Education Minister Chris ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures Conference: Connection...
    Session 4: Pacific Connectivity – Youth, Media and New Opportunities   Kia ora tatou katoa and Warm Pacific greetings to one and all. Representatives of Tainui, the local people of the land, or manawhenua – the indigenous peoples of this area – have welcomed you this morning in accordance with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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