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Two little Pagis squeal and squeak

Written By: - Date published: 9:25 pm, August 16th, 2012 - 178 comments
Categories: activism, internet, labour, spin - Tags: ,

It seems the Standard is off the Paganis’ Christmas list.

John Pagani tells the Listener that he much prefers Kiwiblog because it “has a more reasonable tone than, say, the left blog the Standard, whose idea of political is embittered and angry and it’s therefore hard to read.” Now that’s tragic and moronic, but hardly surprising. It also helps shed light on the inspiration for the otherwise unfathomable, bizzarely kamikaze PR ‘strategy’ of Labour under Shearer. In one of the best blog posts I’ve read for some time, Tumeke gives a superb account of just why Pagani really needs to go if Labour doesn’t want to lose the few remaining activists it has left.

Meanwhile in other completely unrelated news, Josie Pagani has noticed that there has “been a bit of comment about me on the Standard blog. I’m not going to reply there because the people who make the most defamatory comments do it anonymously, like the KKK putting on their white hoods… I’m also astonished at the sexism. Commenters repeatedly conflate my views with my husband’s.” Yes… you’d have to be a pretty sexist bastard to think Josie’s views were anything but completely independent of John’s. Totally. She goes on to give a very long and largely unreadable vacu-pap piece in defence of Shearer’s gutless dog-whistling.

I wonder how long it will take all the younger members of the Labour caucus to understand that Paganiism is going to cut their political careers much shorter than they’d hoped?

178 comments on “Two little Pagis squeal and squeak”

  1. vto 1

    Are paganis those new bananas in the Woolston supervalue?

  2. xtasy 2

    Having listened to Josie Paganie more than enough times on the Monday face off with Hooton or any other right winger, and also at the odd other occasion on “National Radio”, I have had to ask myself, what the hell associates that “person” with the Labour Party or even just humbly the labour movement?

    I see nothing much at all, as she is a total opportunist Blairite of sorts, wanting to tell people, well, move on, we must get into power again, no matter what, we have to make “compromises” with “middle NZ”, sort of.

    So who would make any sense out of such total drivel, but to be that of a willy nilly non committal know it all, pseudo academic “wannabe”, who has to prove anything about what she herself has actually substantially contributed to the party or movement she claims she stands for?

    The sooner the Labour Party gets rid of such hobos and idiots, the better for all. I am happy to see Cunliffe back, shaved or not shaved, at least committed, and who knows, he might have had a chat to “Helen” in New York on his travels, got a bit of mature advice, may hang in there, and wait for his deserved time?

    That is about all I feel that Labour can presently hope for, unless the youth brigades may decide to have a “palace revolt” kind of thing.

    I always preferred paninis to paganis anyway.

    • Colonial Viper 2.1

      That is about all I feel that Labour can presently hope for, unless the youth brigades may decide to have a “palace revolt” kind of thing.

      Nah, Young Labour based in Wellington (as well as most of their recent grads) has been totally captured by beltway thinking. No hope there.

    • Mary 2.2

      “The sooner the Labour Party gets rid of such hobos and idiots, the better for all.”

      That’s a pretty big ask because it gets close to wiping the whole of Labour out and starting from scatch. Just look at Ardern’s comments this morning on Morning Report responding to the plans to drug-test beneficiaries. She pretty much said it’s okay to screw over beneficiaries for the occassional puff on a joint. She’s either missed the point hopelessley, or has given us yet another example of how Labour’s welfare policy and attitude towards beneficiaries is indistinguishable from National’s.

      • Don 2.2.1

        Wiping out Labour and starting from scratch? Again? Labour was wiped out in the 90’s. They sold the last vestige of their sole when they gave their polling info to National during the Tamaki by-election. Anybody with any spine left then. Forget Labour. Join the Greens.

        • OneTrack 2.2.1.1

          Yeah. We dont need jobs.

          • Don 2.2.1.1.1

            Jobs? from Labour? Where were you in ’87? In the 2000’s, Labour rode the credit bubble like everyone else. But they don’t care about jobs – well, not unless they are funded by the Arts Council. Who destroyed the DSIR? Who made Science Education too expensive so now we are run by media studies graduates?

            I bet you will find more people running businesses and employing people in the Greens than in Labour. The last person in the Labour party to run a business was Jim Anderton.

  3. Colonial Viper 3

    With a post title like this Mr Sprout, Josie is so gonna kick your ass! Or try anyways 😀

    I wonder how long it will take all the younger members of the Labour caucus to understand that Paganiism is going to cut their political careers much shorter than they’d hoped?

    Sometime late 2014. If not sooner.

    • gobsmacked 3.1

      I wonder how long it will take all the younger members of the Labour caucus to understand that Paganiism is going to cut their political careers much shorter than they’d hoped?

      Sadly, that probably won’t happen.

      Assuming some older ones retire anyway, the failed Labour MPs can get their 20-something per cent again and all keep their jobs. They just have to rig the list, like last time.

      I suspect the reason the younger ones aren’t agitating more, is that they see National losing after 3 terms, and the likes of Robertson/Hipkins/Ardern getting into government, without having rocked the boat. (By 2017 they’d inherit a country in the shit, but their salaries will insulate them nicely).

  4. gobsmacked 4

    For the record, I had no idea who Josie Pagani was, until she started on the politics spot on “Nine to Noon”. Previously the “left” was represented by Andrew Campbell, or Sue Bradford, both of whom I would sometimes disagree with, but at least they made cogent arguments. I think Mike Williams still pops up there as well. (Hooton of course is the regular rightie, and is evil but smart, and occasionally funny).

    So I have formed my opinion of Josie P entirely apart from her husband, and before this latest “bludger on the roof” madness. And my opinion was: “Please stop talking now”.

    • weka 4.1

      Me too, didn’t know who she was, found her a complete yawn fest on Nine to Noon, and wondered what happened to the left commentator.

      • xtasy 4.1.1

        Perhaps they should ask McCarten instead?

        • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1

          He can do his little Pro-Shearer entreaties, that’ll be nice for everyone.

          • xtasy 4.1.1.1.1

            He’s been pretty critical of Labour and Shearer in his last Herald column!

            • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1.1.1

              Critical of Labour yes. But he also gave Shearer a pass until 2014 saying that the electorate would not pay any attention to him until then, regardless. Then he called Cunliffe and Jones as lacking seriousness.

          • weka 4.1.1.1.2

            Wishlist of left wing commentators?
             
             

            • xtasy 4.1.1.1.2.1

              Hone Harawira (though lacking in some insight and knowledge, also articulation);
              Minto (too extreme and a fringe activist not appealing to most);
              Jo Carolan (far too extreme for most);
              Bradford (good for solid statements, not appealing for willy nilly newbies);

              So the “left” could do with “refreshments”, sort of, what about you?

              • Colonial Viper

                Hone Harawira is a far better rabble rouser and advocate for social justice than Shearer is.

                • xtasy

                  Prb he lacks knowlege, info and substantial sources to argue, that cuts him short. O so many could sort it out but he is not interested, as he is a one man player, that is the prob, mate!

              • weka

                Still waiting for Laila Harre to get public again.
                 
                Martyn Bradbury makes good listening, speaks truth to power and doesn’t quite scare the horses.
                 
                Harawira, I like him, and would love to hear his views more often. There are some awesome Maori women whose voices we should be hearing from more often too.
                 
                What’s Nandor Tanczos up to?
                 
                Really what RNZ should do is have Comment from the Left, Centre, and Right. Then we might get some actual perspective instead of 2D. They can have a Labourite as the Centre one 😉 (and save us all from the Dunnites).

                • xtasy

                  Laila is tied up with agendas few know about, is willy nilly and of little substance, apart form her union. She betrayed Alliance too to a degree, an activist told me, so she is now, like many others, following personal agendas, whether justified or not, it makes no difference: Lost!\

                  • weka

                    She’s working for the Greens now.

                    • xtasy

                      know that, I hope she’ s got honest, accepts the challenges and sticks with them for good, as they can do with some smart guidance. She’s capable, but she has wasted her skills, also partly for self interest, as I was told. A challenge can always lead to be proved and others to be convinced. Give her a go thus.

                • xtasy

                  You can never expect much from radio nz, fairly. They are a “public broadcaster”, the last one we have! So they have to create a “balance” (between right and left – or “wrong” as they would perceive).

                  So try to be fair or soft with them as anything else is abysmal.

            • tc 4.1.1.1.2.2

              RNZ use Pagani because she’s ineffective, waffles people to sleep and can’t joust with whomever is on the other side, it’s all part of the Nat influenced MSM with Griffin controlling the RNZ board.

              That’s why Hotten’s a permanent just in case they forget and get someone decent to represent the left.

              It’s a masterclass in command and control which’s what the top dollar CT bills get you.

    • joe90 4.2

      Latte/Chardonnay technocrat.

      http://www.progressive.org.nz/People/people.html

      Josie Pagani is equally comfortable mingling with international diplomats or mustering her sheep. She returned last year after nearly three years in Paris where she worked for the OECD advising governments on communications and aid effectiveness. She is a former communications manager at NZAID, New Zealand’s first aid agency. Before that Josie worked as a press secretary in ministers’ offices, including the office of Jim Anderton, Matt Robson and the Prime Minister Helen Clark.

      Josie is the mother of two children and lives with her husband on the Kapiti Coast where she rides horses, plays the piano and speaks French (and some German and Maori). Today she works as a communications consultant.

      • xtasy 4.2.1

        Chardonnay circles aye. Meet the high end diplomats, some of whom are the folks “friends” met with way back, aye? Here goes the “circle of friends”, we are “all in it together”, but not with that (dis-enfranchised)”scruffy looking” folk out there?

        That is Blairite crap, hang them all, thanks, have a REAL revolution, to throw them out, the establishment is crap. But I see again, a totally NEW party and organisation is needed, that Labour crowd is beyond repair, for sure. You must be an idiot beyond healing not to realise that!

      • xtasy 4.2.2

        I would lie to ride horses in my spare time, but I never owned a horse, never owned my own house or flat, never will as my economic circumstances dictate, never am likely to earn money to afford paying off a mortgage, and I already speak fluent German, English and a fair amount of French, have good economic and business skills, and I just cannot overcome myself to prostitute my skills to work for next to nothing, to sell it for corporate interests, to be a mercinary and to make others rich and powerful, and a tthe same time make an ass of myself. Sorry, something with the system is rotten. Also especially NZ bosses I met were amongst the worst in the world. So do better, NZ, we may need a collective, or at least more social and responsible, sensible, intelligent approach to engage people, IT IS NOT HAPPENING!

        • xtasy 4.2.2.1

          That is besides of some serious health issues I have, which keep me from even being “material” worth employing. Maybe it is easier to “opt out” altogether, suicide, I sometimes think about this shit society!

          • weka 4.2.2.1.1

            I think it’s very important to find ways of being kind to ourselves. You sounds like you’re working in some very stressful areas xtasy. Do you take time to look after yourself too?

          • gobsmacked 4.2.2.1.2

            Xtasy, don’t let yourself think like that. (I don’t want to derail the thread, but it sounds like you have much to offer, and there are support networks out there, I hope you can find something that suits.)

          • Colonial Viper 4.2.2.1.3

            Nah mate stay with us we need you when it comes to the soon-to-be-formed battle lines, you might not fight at the front but someone will need to train the new recruits, clean the wounds and apply new bandages, organise and procure supplies and make sure that morale is maintained throughout the forces and officer corp.

            • pukeko 4.2.2.1.3.1

              Whiore hume.

              • prism

                pukeko
                I looked up whiore hume and one meaning is “A coward was [called] ‘he whiore hume’ (tail between the legs).” It’s cool to speak Maori and use it but it’s hard to get anything positive from that.

        • Draco T Bastard 4.2.2.2

          …and I just cannot overcome myself to prostitute my skills to work for next to nothing, to sell it for corporate interests, to be a mercinary and to make others rich and powerful, and a tthe same time make an ass of myself.

          You too?

          Thing is, I actually suspect that it’s like that for many people in this dog eat dog world that we’ve created over the last few decades.

    • David H 4.3

      Naaa Hootens, like a Hooray Henry All noise, bullshit, and no substance.

  5. captain hook 5

    yeah I listen to her on the ‘panel’ and its like she’s read it all out of a book
    has she /he ever had a real job in their life?

    • Bob 5.1

      That same question can be asked of most of the Labour Caucus! No wonder they are so out of touch with the workers they are supposed to stand for, they have never spent time working with them.

      • Carol 5.1.1

        I think Josie P has been out and about and met a few different kinds of people. She talks of campaigning for Labour and talking to members of the public around the country.

        It’s not so much that she hasn’t been “in touch” with different kinds of people, or that she only has book knowledge, it’s the lens she uses to view the world and make sense of her experiences….. and it looks to me like a Blairite, soft-neoliberal lens.

        • David H 5.1.1.1

          She sounds to me like one of those people who are always volunteering (you know they are useless). And you just have to keep on making excuses for them, Here we have got a 2 for 1 package deal buy one, and unfortunately you get the other one free.

  6. captain hook 6

    oh and btw if he is so enamoured of kiwiblag then the question must be asked if he votes National?

    • Carol 6.1

      Indeed. I really don’t understand how a leftie could prefer the “tone” there to here….. unless it’s just because there is more criticism of John P here than there – maybe he’s not really that left wing after all?

      And as for the anonymity thing? Would it make any difference if some of us said the same things at a public meeting? Most people probably still wouldn’t know anything much about is.

      If they can’t stand the heat, they shouldn’t put themselves in such a public position.

  7. weka 7

    She must be getting pretty desperate if she has to compare TS commenters to the KKK. Or maybe she’s just a nasty offsite troll.
     

  8. captain hook 8

    the thing is they are really milksop careerists who want it both ways and in the end aren’t worth anything.

  9. BillODrees 9

    What a pair of useless Tossers!  

    If both of them have the ear of Phil, Annette, Trevor, Grant and two Davids (not the Cunliffe one) we are truly in a mess, of proportions that the most pessimistic of  the party faithful were afraid to consider possible.  Jesus, Mary and Joseph! All of sudden Mike Moore becomes attractive. 

  10. gobsmacked 10

    Since John Pagani prefers Kiwiblog, here’s the link …

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/tag/john_pagani

    You can read a preview of what’s coming soon from Shearer, by reading DPF’s posts about Pagani working for Goff (DPF is biased, of course, but there are original sources linked as well). I really recommend having a look. Note the comments on teachers, and welfare, and cosying up to National. There’s a clear pattern here.

  11. millsy 11

    Josie Pagani is not as influential as she thinks she is.

    The fact that she was so far down the Labour Party list that if she got into the House, we would be a one-party state, kinda speaks volumes about her actual influence in the party.

    Im not really all that worried about her.

    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      There’s influence in the party, then there is influence on the electorate through appearances like National Radio.

      Gawd frakking help us if New Zealanders listening believe that Pagani represents what the Left of politics has to offer in this country.

      • gobsmacked 11.1.1

        Commentators are, by definition, unsuccessful candidates or failed politicians (Pagani, Jackson, Tamihere, Farrar, Franks, Slater, etc)

        A few exceptions – Mike Williams is one. But not many.

      • weka 11.1.2

        Yeah that’s my worry, RNZ’s influence on middle class NZ. What happened to RNZ’s role of getting people to think?

        • tc 11.1.2.1

          RNZ is under the nat MSM machine, Plunkett shipped off by dangling a juicy carrott, Mora/Crump/Laidlaw/Ryan left alone as not threatening, even helping sometimes. I’m surprised Mary Wilson on Checkpoint’s not been nobbled but then you wouldn’t imagine her going quietly.

  12. Sufi Safari 12

    Sprout and friends once again delivering the irony in thick “embittered and angry” measure.
    Recent posts by Mike Smith, Jimmy Reid and Jenny Michie have been raising the level of introspection on this site from the vituperative to the truly reflective and even constructive. It’d be great if you could join them.

    Also, you guys should talk to someone in the Leader’s Office. Your perspective of John Pagani’s role is way off. Disagree with his politics, fine, but I think if you take a moment you’ll find he’s hardly earned the role of whipping boy for all your disillusionments.

    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      Don’t write off anger mate. Anger moves nations. And Mike Smith and Jimmy Reid were happier with the status quo than unhappy with it. With all due respect to good guys, how many people did they move with their pieces? Sweet F.A., I suspect.

      PS “Paganiism” does not have to come from the Pagani’s personally. Its simply a label which describes the weak kneed unprincipled, cosy up to the comfortable centre-right middle class, underclass bashing apologist approach of some elements of the “Left”.

      • Sufi Safari 12.1.1

        Anger can be a superb motivator. Or a huge turn off.

        If you’ve been to any manner of left-wing protest recently you’ll have seen (or been) a small mob of angry folk bashing your heads against mainstream apathy. Further alienating the message from that mainstream and reinforcing the sense of alienation that drives the anger in the first place. It’s painful to watch and even more distressing to be a part of.

        Which isn’t to say an angry mob can’t be raised… if you’re a truckie opposed to RUC changes, or someone who doesn’t want their kids to be given legal protection from assault, or a Destiny Church-goer who has had enough of the gays, or if you have boobs and are on a bike (but then you were probably less angry and more naked).

        Until the left can inspire a compelling sense of anything, whether it’s anger, hope, pride or belonging, your anger is not going to move anything as truculent as a nation.

        But by all means come to the Standard and roar your terrible roars and gnash your terrible teeth, I just think it’s funny how you get so wild when someone rolls their terrible eyes and calls you on it.

        • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1

          Until the left can inspire a compelling sense of anything, whether it’s anger, hope, pride or belonging, your anger is not going to move anything as truculent as a nation.

          Hey mash for brains

          In case you haven’t paid attention in the last 6 months

          Its Labour and its current leadership who can’t “inspire a compelling sense of anything”

          • Sufi Safari 12.1.1.1.1

            Okay, so I am basically writing off anger at this point. You haven’t moved me and I’m ready to call it that you’re not going to move a nation.

            Have you paid attention to the last six years?
            I can’t think of a single instance of large-scale anger-driven protest that I can get on board with. None that I would class as being of the left.

            I understand your grievance. I share it. I just don’t agree that wave after wave of vitriol is going to do anything for you. Or for the left. Or for the Labour Party. Or for the country. If I am wrong, and your rage improves the prospects of any one of those listed, I will gladly withdraw and apologise.

              • weka

                btw, anger and vitriol are not synonymous in this context. You are conflating the two things.

              • Sufi Safari

                Apparently Colonial Viper’s fears are founded, I haven’t paid attention in the last six months. You’ve rather skewered my argument there, and your point about anger and vitriol is well made. It’s a distinction I hadn’t considered, which I think makes my position overall a bit problematic. Good food for thought. Thanks.

                • geoff

                  sprout: comment deleted

                  • Galeandra

                    Debate if you can rather than abuse someone; this comment is simply offensive and suggests you can’t offer any ideas worth reading

                  • Sufi Safari

                    Hi geoff. Thanks for contributing so concisely to my original thesis.
                    Have a swell day.

                    • rosy

                      Classy reply Sufi – a virtual high five to you – there was no need for geoff to write crap like that, actually there’s never a need to write that.

                • weka

                  Hi Sufi, I think even with the more vitriolic protests, there is value. It’s partly that protest is being left to the most angry people and often the young who have the energy to mobilise in radical ways. It’s important that this keeps happening, because we desperately need young people to stay politicised. It also keeps the issues in the public eye, better than most other things. Radical activists have always led the way – think the Sprinkbok tour, anti-nuke, the Maori renaissance, some of the older environmental protests.
                   
                  I think the internet has changed protest and activism too. Bill (TS author) has some good insight into this. People think that signing a petition online, or posting something on social media is sufficient, and there seems to be middle-classification of activism where certain kinds of protesting are now seen as distasteful. That’s a real shame IMO.
                   
                   

                  • KJT

                    There is also the chilling effect, on protest, of seeing legal protesters being assaulted and dragged off in a police van.

                    Not to mention the likelihood of personal details being illegally outed to the media if you dare to criticise a politician.

                    I have to say it for Labour here. Labour only refuses to publish critical comments on Red Alert.

                    • weka

                      You say that as if it’s a good thing KJT. Doesn’t that just make RA a propaganda space? If people on the left can’t critique Labour policy there, Labour are in effect saying they don’t care what people think.

                    • KJT

                      Only by comparison with NACT’s/Bashers methods.

                  • Sufi Safari

                    Hi Weka. I’ve watched a lot of protests consisting of the same 20-50 people milling around King Dick chanting the slogan of the moment and at best being ignored by the people inside the buildings and at worst being conflated with their cause in totem by politicians and staffers who saw them all last week and more easily see them as malcontents than as the vanguard of a movement.

                    That experience colours my perspective of protest (and of many MPs in similar measure). But I think I agree with you more than disagree.

    • gobsmacked 12.2

      you guys should talk to someone in the Leader’s Office.

      We’re trying to, but it’s a one-way conversation.

      It would be fantastic if “someone in the Leader’s Office” would engage and debate. They even have a Labour MPs blog for that very purpose. Seen it lately?

      Labour/Shearer seem to have decided on a strategy. If they really want feedback on it, there are dozens of avenues. But they don’t, do they?

      • weka 12.2.1

        You mean the blog where they censor comments?

        • Bob 12.2.1.1

          Are you talking about this one or Red Alert? They are both as bad as each other.

          • weka 12.2.1.1.1

            This isn’t a Labour blog Bob. And AFAIK it doesn’t censor comments except where they are libelous. It does moderate behaviour, but pretty liberally, and such moderation is normal on blogs that don’t want to be a tr*llfest. Red Alert appear to actually refuse comment content they don’t like.

            • David H 12.2.1.1.1.1

              @Weka 12:26am Bullshit they do censor mainly delete anything that calls for any politician to be held accountable, or the calls for stepping down

              • weka

                David, are you talking the Standard or Red Alert? I’m saying TS doesn’t censor content (other than to prevent libel) but RA does.

                • SHG

                  “The Standard” censors anything it feels like at any time for any or no reason whatsoever.

                  Their playground, their rules.

      • Sufi Safari 12.2.2

        By “trying to”, do you mean via blogs?
        If so, then for all the reasons that this thread is beautifully ironic, I humbly submit that you’re doing it wrong.

        • the sprout 12.2.2.1

          true enough.
          we should really be communicating with Labour via Kiwiblog – it seems that’s where most of the ideas are coming from.
          ironic indeed

          • Sufi Safari 12.2.2.1.1

            Still doing it wrong.

            • Colonial Viper 12.2.2.1.1.1

              Hey Safari. Thanks for your tutoring. You can go away now.

              • Sufi Safari

                That was supposed to be a good-ish natured jab at Sprout’s wry Kiwiblog joke in the face of my blanket assertion that blogs were the wrong avenue. I tried it out with more detail and it read clumsily, and I couldn’t bring myself to add a lol or emoticon. But you’re right, it does read somewhat imperious. Please accept my apologies, it was not my intention in this instance.

        • gobsmacked 12.2.2.2

          Via every available outlet, if you’ve noticed the last few days.

          People have e-mailed their MPs, or others in the party. People have been all over the blogosphere – almost every left/liberal/Labour blog has been asking “WTF?” (in a variety of language).

          And Shearer sent us a nice e-mail … which said nothing. The next one is due tomorrow. Breath not being held.

          • Sufi Safari 12.2.2.2.1

            Don’t think those emails are being ignored (if the blog posts run true to type then probably assume that they are being). Also don’t assume you’re in the majority (actually you probably can on this one, but not always).

            Those emails from Shearer will continue to say nothing until the party has a vision. Which is a problem. But another problem would be if you were looking for acknowledgement of your grievances in those emails. The gallery (and the blogosphere) would whip themselves into a frightful frenzy over the prospects of a coup that may be very welcome on these pages, but does only harm from an incumbent’s perspective. And whatever persuasion of David you prefer, that’s the right way to approach the office. The leadership shouldn’t fall at the hands of speculation about the leadership, which is why the Garner piece is so disappointing (and why so many of Cunliffe’s antics last term were equally disheartening). So you’re right not to hold your breath, but if vindication is what you’re after it might pay to temper your expectations too.

            Anyway, my point in the first place was more about the perceptions of how the leader’s office worked, and how far off the mark perspectives like the original post are.

            • weka 12.2.2.2.1.1

              I can’t follow what you are saying. The original post doesn’t talk about how the leader’s office works.

              • Sufi Safari

                Now that’s tragic and moronic, but hardly surprising. It also helps shed light on the inspiration for the otherwise unfathomable, bizzarely kamikaze PR ‘strategy’ of Labour under Shearer.

                You should pay more attention.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Classic beltway-centric superiority complex.

                  • weka

                    Lol, is that what’s going on? I’ve been reading SS’s posts and finding them nonsensical. I guess I’m just not in the right club.

                • weka

                  That’s a big vague isn’t it? If you want to present some PR for Labour, wouldn’t it be better to try and engage with people here rather than just repeatedly telling them they’re wrong?

                  • Sufi Safari

                    Fair point both of you. It was vague and came across as superior. Sorry about that.

                    The excerpt I pulled…

                    Now that’s tragic and moronic, but hardly surprising. It also helps shed light on the inspiration for the otherwise unfathomable, bizzarely kamikaze PR ‘strategy’ of Labour under Shearer.

                    …as I read it was implicating Pagani as central to the current malaise in the Leader’s Office. Which may be an exaggeration in my mind of what it really said, but was cause for my contention that Pagani’s role was being overstated, which I think would be unfair to both Pagani and to the leader’s office. It’s probably immaterial in the big picture, but I thought I’d make a small stand for veracity while I was here.

                    In other matters, I think (hope?) if you reflect on my less curt posts, that I will be largely exonerated from the charge of running PR for Labour. Just some different viewpoints.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      …as I read it was implicating Pagani as central to the current malaise in the Leader’s Office.

                      Not talking about the MPs here, but it would help if some of the bloody staff realised that the answer does NOT lie at the bottom of the next bottle of Sav.

                      And Pagani isn’t a cause, so much as a symptom. That’s pretty clear to everyone here (or at least it is to me).

            • Olwyn 12.2.2.2.1.2

              Not sure what you are getting at with regard to “Cunliffe’s antics last term” since I did not notice any antics. Cunliffe is an elected, senior member of parliament, who won his seat with a big majority. He is entitled to hold, defend and promote a position on the party and its direction – more entitled than, say, an unelected consultant. If this is what you are getting at, I would not describe it as an antic, but as the fulfilment of a responsibility. A political party is not a mere management team, and the agreement behind collective responsibility should not rely on “put up or shut up” resignation from senior members.

              • Sufi Safari

                Hi Olwyn. I don’t disagree that any MP is entitled to “hold, defend and promote a position within the party”. But all too often what’s actually going on is MPs holding, defending and promoting their position within the caucus. I don’t think that undermining your colleagues is a constructive way to approach rebuilding the party or reconnecting with the electorate, and that goes for Garner’s sources as much as it does for Cunliffe and cohorts.

                My experience of David Cunliffe is that he’s a really nice guy, very effective at connecting with people, conscientious and enthusiastic. From where I was standing, he was also a guy who spent more energy plotting for the leadership last term than he spent on his portfolios, supporting policy development, or campaigning for the Party.

                To my mind, that made him more damaging to the party in the 2011 election than any influence John Pagani managed to achieve (or has since), both in direct impact on electorate perception and in the opportunity cost of an under-performing Finance spokesperson. Of course, that is merely my perspective, but for what it’s worth it might also go some way towards explaining why there is such a gulf between the membership and the caucus when it comes to support of David Cunliffe.

                • Olwyn

                  I am certainly no insider, so can only read the situation through external clues and my own perspective, which is left-leaning. As an outsider I did not see leadership ambitions at play, but I suspect retrospectively that Cunliffe, in believing that the party should be more to the left in its orientation than it has been since Helen Clark, stood his ground on this and annoyed people in doing so, rather than agreeing to be a red candle on a blue cake.

                • Colonial Viper

                  he was also a guy who spent more energy plotting for the leadership last term than he spent on his portfolios, supporting policy development, or campaigning for the Party.

                  Cunliffe increased his majority in New Lynn by 25%, from 4,000 to 5000. In a year that most Labour candidates slid hard. That’s not bad “campaigning for the Party” I would have thought.

                  To fill in time however, why don’t you have a reread of who Fran O’Sullivan said was “spending energy plotting for the leadership”.

                  This week’s deal was essentially put together by long-serving MP Trevor Mallard – who performed the numbers role when Helen Clark ran her coup against then leader Mike Moore.

                  But much of the real strategising started several months back when Shearer and close caucus allies such as former Labour list MP Stuart Nash seriously began talking about a post-election leadership tilt.

                  Influential members of the “commentariat” – particularly those of the right-of-centre persuasion – were informally briefed.

                  Shearer was promoted as having a modern international outlook; pro-business, pro-science and innovation, and not prone to the phony cloth-cap ideology that Goff had to dip into…

                  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10773689

                • Colonial Viper

                  First you say this

                  I don’t think that undermining your colleagues is a constructive way to approach rebuilding the party or reconnecting with the electorate

                  and then you go on with this

                  that made (Cunliffe) more damaging to the party in the 2011 election than any influence John Pagani managed to achieve (or has since), both in direct impact on electorate perception and in the opportunity cost of an under-performing Finance spokesperson.

                  Simply unbelievable hypocrisy.

                  • Sufi Safari

                    Neither Cunliffe nor Pagani are my colleagues and I’m not working to rebuild the party or reconnect with the electorate. I’m not sure hypocrisy is a fairly levelled accusation in this instance. But I do like how you removed the first three words from the second quote to help further your point.

                    Fran’s piece doesn’t ring true to me, although as much as I’d like to believe otherwise that doesn’t make it any less likely. But either way, the existence of a second stream of machinations doesn’t preclude the first. From what I saw (again please read that as the caveat it is meant to be) Cunliffe’s activities predated any thought of Shearer’s promotion by several years.

                    Still, Cunliffe’s success in New Lynn is testament to his skills as an electorate MP. He is personable and intelligent, and he built a dedicated team of supporters and volunteers around him, that continues to be an asset to him every time anyone raises the matter of the Party’s leadership. And I think all that electorate success would be just great if he was a backbencher in a marginal electorate. But he wasn’t, and my point about campaigning for the Party was more related to his willingness to engage with the broader campaign than his ability to return himself safely in New Lynn.

                    I still hold to the belief that the sniping and leaking and conniving that is coming from both sides of this apparent divide is equally unhelpful. But then perhaps that’s still partisan territory, hoping for stability in the leadership at a time like this…

                    • Colonial Viper

                      From where I was standing, he was also a guy who spent more energy plotting for the leadership last term than he spent on his portfolios, supporting policy development, or campaigning for the Party.

                      How could you have made the above observations if you weren’t also around Cunliffe during his portfolio work, his policy development work and his Party campaigning work? ie working with Labour Party MPs? That to my mind makes you a work colleague.

                      But I do like how you removed the first three words from the second quote to help further your point.

                      For clarity, the first three words you wrote were “To my mind”, which is a phrase used to make clear that the statement following is an opinion. Which (to my mind) was obvious from the statement itself.

                      Fran’s piece doesn’t ring true to me, although as much as I’d like to believe otherwise that doesn’t make it any less likely. But either way, the existence of a second stream of machinations doesn’t preclude the first.

                      If you were around Labour MPs enough to come to strong declarative conclusions about Cunliffe, you shouldn’t be coy about what O’Sullivan said about Shearer, Mallard et al. Tell us what you saw.

                  • Sufi Safari

                    That to my mind makes you a work colleague.

                    You’ve inferred too much… or maybe I’ve just overstated the extent of my exposure. We were never colleagues.

                    If you were around Labour MPs enough to come to strong declarative conclusions about Cunliffe, you shouldn’t be coy about what O’Sullivan said about Shearer, Mallard et al. Tell us what you saw.

                    I thought that’s what I’d been doing.
                    Anyway, I’ve got into bagging Cunliffe and that’s not really what I intended. He’s a capable guy with a strong case for leading the party at some stage and my opinions on whether he should be or how he achieves it are entirely immaterial. My initial point, rather lost in my subsequent ramblings, was that I think the kind of stuff that leads to pieces like Garner’s blog post is unhelpful. Whoever it comes from.

      • David H 12.2.3

        Red Alert????? I get one in my inbox every morning. From the WAREHOUSE.

  13. xtasy 13

    If I’d tell you tomorrow to take an organisational step, to organise and unite all disaffected, the unions, the low paid workers and so forth, how many do you think will turn up? Maybe 3 dozen is my answer! Because most of YOUR organisers FUCKED most of all this up with too many stupid marches never resulting in much of fringe grouup turnouts. So the LEFT is now associated with FRINGE orgos of sorts, and that is your fucking problem, all of you.

    In other countries it never got quite so bad, so the problem there is less severe.

    NZ needs to reconnect, wake up, re organise, re focus and get back to bloody basic workers and human rights that is the only solution, but sadly too many discuss trivial question time and other nonsense topics on this and other forums. Yo u are in danger of being LOST!

  14. Huginn 14

    You say:
    John Pagani tells the Listener that that he much prefers Kiwiblog because it “has a more reasonable tone than, say, the left blog the Standard, whose idea of political is embittered and angry and it’s therefore hard to read.’

    But the link you give has this:

    Then again, as left-leaning political-consultant-turned-commentator John Pagani notes, Farrar’s apparently easygoing tone might be among his greatest advantages. “He has a more reasonable tone than, say, the left blog the Standard, whose idea of political is embittered and angry and it’s therefore hard to read,” says Pagani, who has sparred often with Farrar on Newstalk ZB. “He is actually a seasoned political operative who intuitively knows pressure points for his opponents and much of what he publishes is cunning and designed to create political pressure, like a good parliamentary question.”

    Which is not the same at all.

    • xtasy 14.1

      That is why astute, alert and smart people detect this nonsense straight away, take a solid stand and shoot such crapology adherents down before they could ever even open their mouthes that lack the early morning anti bacterial mouth wash, so to say.

      Resulute, aware and sensible action is needed, but too many Labour leaders and activists either are of the convenient sleep in types (missed that uni days ended years ago), or they cannot be bothered to make a damned effort. If I want some bloody change and direction, I would have to bloody make an effort, which goes beyond blaming others and take bloody action!

      I think that is where some acticists in Latin America are way ahead of NZ, because they have no bloody alternative to get up, take action and bloody fight!

    • Carol 14.2

      Oh, dear.

      Instead of writing what they think, arguing the issues directly, and wrestling with the rationale for politics and policies, Standardistas are meant to be a bit underhand and manipulative and act like some focus-grouping corporate operators?

    • Jenny Michie 14.3

      Thanks Huginn. That’s exactly the point I was going to make. I think we’ve all drawn rather a long bow from that.

  15. Morrissey 15

    Josie Pagani once came out all guns blazing on NewstalkZB’s “The Huddle” and completely outclassed—and silenced—Cameron Slater and Larry Williams.

    So she CAN do it if she sets her mind to it. Sadly, however, most of her energy seems to be taken up with finding ways to be nice and agree with the likes of Matthew Hooton and David Farrar.

    I blame that useless husband of hers.

  16. Descendant Of Smith 16

    I can only reiterate my simple question of a few days ago:

    Does the Labour Party actually believe in an 8 hour working day, 40 hour working week as a matter of both principle and policy?

    I do not see believing in this as extremist left wing – and in fact many workers still enjoy this today – sometimes in surprising places. This was normal for most people when I started work and it’s not for my kids.

    This erosion of working rights for my children I see as very important.

    What I do see this as, is a fundamental tenet of the Labour Party. It’s one of the few things proclaimed loudly on the website.

    It’s not a difficult question to answer.

  17. I think that I am the “sexist thug [who] reads chicken entrails from my husband’s tweets to get an insight into my views”.  What I said was

    “After thinking about Josie Pagani’s bene bashing comments yesterday on Radio New Zealand I thought I would check out hubby John Pagani’s activities.
    It seems that his blog is down.  I wonder when that happened.
    He has recently sent a couple of tweets.  One of them says “Martin Hawes on buying shares in Mighty River.Excellent analysis. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/7466680/Ignore-hype-when-investing
    The Hawes article he links to is a cold hard financial analysis of the share float of MRP that does not mention Iwi claims or the risks that they pose.  Hawes’ conclusion is that ”[o]n all of these measures, MRP comes out well. It is in a good, stable industry providing energy from renewables, but with growth prospects as it sells its expertise in thermal power to other countries. It has strong finances and very good governance and management.”
    It would appear that Pagani thinks buying MRP shares is a good idea.
    Is he still speech writing for the Labour Party?”

    I plead not guilty to being a thug or to conflating her views with his.  But I do think that she was been bashing on National Radio.  And I am really keen to find out if John thinks buying MRP shares is a good idea.  

  18. IrishBill 18

    I disagree with both Paganis on just about everything however I’m uncomfortable singling them out for a bashing like this and share some of Sufi’s thoughts in comment 12. I don’t, however, think the leader’s office is in any great hurry to start talking to TS.

    • Huginn 18.1

      +1

    • King Kong 18.2

      I would genuinely like to know how much of Labour’s activist base and supporters you think the Standard represents.

      Demanding that the leader of the opposition consult with this blog is either the stuff of delusional fantasists or you guys know something about how important you are that I don’t.

      If it is based on readership numbers then that would require John Key to seek a weekly audience with Whaleoil.

      • King Kong 18.2.1

        Have I been banned?

        [lprent: Not that I can see. Have you done something for which you think I should ban you? If so could you please link to it and explain why. The rough and ready ruleset is in the policy.

        You probably just got caught by one of the auto-moderation rules that r0b wants me to review or one of the automatic systems – in which case you comment would have been been reviewed soon after.

        If you want to check that a moderator has banned you. Then use the search – Set advanced to comments only and put in “@author King Kong” (without the quotes) will bring up this. And it doesn’t waste moderators time. ]

    • lprent 18.3

      I know what you mean. However I have been constraining myself since reading Josie’s post with it’s group demonising (ie take a few individuals behaviour and smear an entire group with it) not to mention her outright lying.

      Incidentally I had a peek at why I’d banned John off this site (which is what I guess that Josie is referring to) and the similarities as far as a moderator are concerned are rather more striking than the differences between the two. Group smearing, personal attacks based on self created strawman, playing the victim, etc are all well known tactics on blogs. I suspect that their respective gender is insufficient to overcome their similarities – mainly consisting of being puffed up arrogant fools in my opinion.

      I don’t really have much sympathy for either of them. Like the spout, I suspect that they have made the right choice of preferring the sewer at kiwiblog rather than here, because they will get challenged here and the policy means that their views will get challenged in detail. Their political leanings appear to me to reside at KB as well from what I can see.

  19. vto 19

    I’ve got an idea – how about Labour tell the country what its policies are what it will do when in power. I know its a novel idea, but give it a go. You could start with… hmmm… let’s see..

    What Labour will do to ensure the minimum wage becomes a living wage…

    What Labour will do about asset sales – those on the block now and all future asset / capital item matters…

    What Labour will do to stop New Zealanders having to compete with 4 billion people who don’t even live in the country when it comes to buying land? They could start by clarifying the benefits to NZ of foreign landlords…

    What Labour will do about Rape Crisis…

    … bloody pussy footing around arguing with each other and pulling each others hair. Pathetic. Nobody cares about that shit. People want to see housing take less of their weekly pay packet, schools keep on keeping on in their past good fashion, their minimum wage provide them an ability to live…

    Either Mr Invisible needs to start shouting and open his eyes wider, or Cunliffe should just start ignoring his egghead colleagues and speak loudly and frequently from his heart, which he has done before. Preferably both of them at once. Go on. Try it. You might be surprised at the result.

    • OneTrack 19.1

      Since the Greens are going to be in charge, how about they tell the country EXACTLY what they are going to do. There is a lot of warm fuzzy stuff – how about some details.

      For a start, Green-tech – where is the money going to come from, how much will it cost, what are we going to do and who are we going to sell it to?

  20. captain hook 20

    tiddlywinks anyone?

  21. Sanctuary 21

    First of all, Kathryn Ryan has a huge say in who appears on Nine-to-Noon as a political commentator, and if Chris Trotter is to be believed she’d rather die than allow a real left winger to regularly appear on her show. The constant offering up of pasteurised middle class soft liberals as “from the left” is deliberate RNZ (self?) censorship, the effect of which is to drag the centre to the right when they are paired with a hard right professional propagandist like Hooten.

    Secondly, Pagani (x2) both have become the symbols of the utter disconnect between an out-of-touch parliamentary party and the activist base. They are the symbols of the no bad kings, just bad advisors syndrome that is the last refuge of hope before civil war and the attacks on them amount to a sort of grand remonstrance (http://www.constitution.org/eng/conpur043.htm) contrasting the “dutiful and loyal counsels and endeavours of your (activists)” with the conspiracy of the Paganis and other unnamed evil counselors who are dragging the unwitting Shearer into National-lite centrism, and Labour with it.

    Of course, the reality was Charles I knew exactly what he wanted.

  22. ak 22

    Bomber’s on the money.

    Infighting is the eternal curse and cancer of the left, and here are two privileged paid employees pouring petrol on the fire in tankerloads.

    Inexcusable.

    And begs the question as to whence the initial spark.

    Labour/Alliance was the most promising Left development in decades. Until it spectacularly self-immolated over nothing.

    From memory both Paganis worked for the Alliance at the time.

    Now they’re calling committed Left activists embittered, angry, sexist, KKK thugs and shilling the sewer.

    Nasty pattern emerging.

    • blue leopard 22.1

      @ak
      Thoroughly agree.

    • Gosman 22.2

      Yeah the left is good at self immolation.

      It’s fun to watch from a diferent poilitical perspective I must state for the record.

    • Colonial Viper 22.3

      From memory both Paganis worked for the Alliance at the time.

      Now they’re calling committed Left activists embittered, angry, sexist, KKK thugs and shilling the sewer.

      Time to put Zarak and Gaeta back in their place.

      • pukeko 22.3.1

        Kāti te riri, whakarērea hoki te ārita; kei mamae koe, kei tākina kia mahi i te kino !

      • Mike 22.3.2

        I don’t think death threats are an appropriate way to make your point
        This has already become far too personalised as it is.

        • lprent 22.3.2.1

          I thought it was a reference to some characters in a daft scifi tv series that I generally avoid? What makes you think it is a death threat…

          Edit: Ok – I have just looked at whaleoil. I see that he has been indulging in his usual paranoid conspiracy theories and joining up way too many dots. Out of all of the possible meanings of having a few nasty characters in a TV show, he has selected the one that he prefers.

          He really is an juvenile idiot with a bit of a paranoid conspiracy complex..

          Next thing you know he will be implying that I’m gay because I have a “girls name”. Opps he has already done that. Or that an author here is someone in real life because they have a similar first name r0b vs Rob.. Umm he has done that as well.. Or he will decry everyone on a sickness benefit as some kind of bludger before going on one himself – perhaps he should give that to David Shearer…

          Basically the guy never grew out of being a schoolboy.

          • Inventory2 22.3.2.1.1

            lprent – I would have thought that Colonial Viper’s comment would have been pretty obvious in its intent once you put it into context with the Battlestar Gallactica reference:

            “After regaining control of Galactica and defeating the mutiny, Adama has Zarek and Gaeta executed by firing squad.”

            Obfuscate all you like; there’s only one way to read Colonial Viper’s comment

            Feel free to add me to the list of life bans. I’d hate to be like John Pagani and be wasting your time; or mine, for that matter. But one day you might wake up and realise just how much damage The Standard is doing to the cause of the Left, and to the Labour Party in particular. Take your time though; after the 2020 election will be fine.

            I bid thee farewell.

            • IrishBill 22.3.2.1.1.1

              Why on earth would we ban you?

            • ropata 22.3.2.1.1.2

              The way I read the comment was that it’s time for the left to clean house and stop sabotaging itself. Ahh well this is the reality of life in opposition… everyone gets bitchy

              • Colonial Viper

                Yep. This is exactly what I meant:

                That our trusty old Battlestar creaking and groaning as it does i.e. the Labour Party, needs to be retaken by those who have served her for so long, and who really care about her.

                CV replies to Whaleoil

        • quartz 22.3.2.2

          Well you should stop making them then, Mike.

      • locus 22.3.3

        To liken the arguments of people who disagree with you as ‘like the KKK’ is Godwinism and reflects on the abuser’s intellect and morality.

        Of course anonymity on a blog does permit people to argue more disagreeably than they might on FB, but making defamatory comments using your real name on FB is no less odious than doing so on The Standard.

        To say that The Standard “deals out lifetime bans to anyone who disagrees with them” is ill-informed and begs the commenter to be pilloried. As for the accusation of sexism, the same law applies.

        To suggest that anonymous criticism by TS commenters of people using the ‘welfare bludger’ dogwhistle is playing into the hands of those who want to see Labour lose the welfare debate, is well…. irrational.

        Seriously, if a self-professed left-winger can’t bring themselves to read or engage in debate on the Standard because they find some commenters offensive, this suggests to me they have no interest in views that don’t match their own and don’t care about learning more about what drives left-wing thinking..

        As has been pointed out by many TS commenters, Shearer’s story about the guy who saw his neighbour up on a roof while on a sickness benefit was a manipulative attempt to portray Labour as a party that doesn’t tolerate welfare bludgers.

        It’s a shame that the Leader of the Labour Party is accepting advice (or personally deciding) that taking this line is the best way to win votes. Couldn’t he have found a better way to ‘speak’ to judgemental or prejudiced people about Labour’s toughness and intolerance of fraudsters?

  23. captain hook 23

    the thing is the two little pagis think they can play politics and hide behind their salaries without ever getting their hands dirty or facing any consequences from the proletariat.
    remember them?
    time for the P’s to stand up and be counted or try another game.

  24. Stephen 24

    I am completely opposed to the kind of rhetoric, strategy and policy that the Paganis advocate. I think I’m probably on the hard left side of the Labour party tent. But seriously: “two little paggis?” This pretty much proves their point. Are you 12 years old?

    • bad12 24.1

      Yeah right, children everyday go to school hungry, rheumatic fever is inflicting kids in swathes,in the far North and other hot-spots 3rd world diseases creep into the health statistics,

      The Pagani’s advice to Labour Leader Shearer,( and i don’t discount that he possibly thinks this way anyway), is that the poor are undeserving and ripping off the system,

      And YOU want us to play F**king nice, F**k you,

      One of the Pagani’s at least has been openly slagging beneficiaries any chance She gets as well as openly slagging those who would stand up in support of those beneficiaries,

      One of the J. Pagani’s is a public figure using the media to push the J. Pagani political message, that particular PIGani deserves every f**king slagging that PIGani f**king gets…

      • Jagilby 24.1.1

        Interesting how people are banned for far less than this vitriolic diatribe.

        I guess being “on message” excuses this behaviour.

    • Colonial Viper 24.2

      But seriously: “two little paggis?” This pretty much proves their point. Are you 12 years old?

      Oh come now, the art of political satire can’t be completely dead.

  25. vto 25

    Does anyone know if either of these strange pagani bananas has ever been on a benefit? Or David Shearer?

    Because like most things on the planet, until you have experience in something it is near impossible to speak with any authority on it.

    So, have they?

    • Carol 25.1

      vto, in the wide range of crucial political issues, we can’t all have direct experience of relevant activities.

      IMO, the more important quality is empathy – being able to imagine what it would be like for those in a worse situation than the one we are in.

      I would expect Labour Party people to have a lot of empathy for the least powerful in society, and that it wouldn’t be over-ridden by a desire to placate those who are better off and lack such empathy.

      • weka 25.1.1

        They could also have people who give them advice, who know what the fuck they are talking about eg one of the beneficiary advocacy organisations. Or someone in the disability sector who understands SB issues.

      • vto 25.1.2

        Of course Carol, we can’t all have experience of everything.

        I guess in my mind I was referencing it to the personal accusations they made against beneficiaries. The statements made indicated a level of personal knowledge and experience, which they clearly seem to lack completely. And if they so lack that experience then they need to moderate or qualify their accusations, lest they come across as fools.

        Some things in life are particularly heavy and really need experience to understand and pass decent comment on. Two biggie examples would include childbirth and war. Others slightly down the scale may include death of a young child, or the soul-sapping destruction of societal rejection such as unemployment.

    • bad12 25.2

      Larffffs!!! i doubt any of the Labour Caucus have ever been on a benefit and therein lies part of the problem of the glaring disconnect between Labour and a huge swathe of the New Zealand population,

      Theres a huge gulf in the debate where for their own purposes it has as usual been dragged down to it’s lowest common denominator,

      Labour, as National have done for years simply adds fuel to the fire of preconceptions about beneficiaries which are the province of a small slice of the red-neck vote in this country,

      Where the debate should be raging, and, we at the Standard should perhaps be mindful of steering that debate where possible should be in the question of AVAILABLE WORK,

      In other words, its a f**king given that the economy we have had imposed upon us CANNOT and NEVER WILL deliver anything like full employment in this country,

      It then becomes dishonest and disgusting for the likes of Shearer and His schism of Labour to begin to denigrate beneficiaries for supposed small time character flaws,

      The discourse need be shifted, how such a shift is accomplished is somewhat beyond me at present,nevertheless WE need be focusing the mind of the likes of Shearer upon the FACT that the ism that He wishes to use as economic management for this country DOES NOT and WILL NOT provide anything in the way of employment for the population than what it currently does,

      Further to that WE need to have Shearer and His fellow travelers move in that DIRECTION PUBLICLY differentiating from National in that the discussion can then turn to how we best resolve this issue of UNDER-employment,

      My view is that WE either move to an economy where the hours worked are rationed out among those who can work OR we begin now a discussion on how best to keep those WE DENY work to upon some form of economic basis where they too can interact with the economy based upon some NORM of income which we all understand…

      • Carol 25.2.1

        My view is that WE either move to an economy where the hours worked are rationed out among those who can work OR we begin now a discussion on how best to keep those WE DENY work to upon some form of economic basis where they too can interact with the economy based upon some NORM of income which we all understand…

        Yes, that. Any form of beneficiary bashing, or of separating the “deserving” or “undeserving” poor, is (among other things) a diversion from the main issue of the employment structure.

        • Colonial Viper 25.2.1.1

          And the employment structure is a direct result of a system which says that the only worthwhile work to be done in society is that which makes a return on that capital for the owners. All other roles in society are degraded.

          • Tracey 25.2.1.1.1

            All cleaners, everywhere should go on strike for one week. Then some folks will really know what “shit hitting the fan means”.

            • Colonial Viper 25.2.1.1.1.1

              I remain pissed off that the top union leadership did not band together and enforce nationwide stop work action against the ECA in the early 90’s.

              They could have sorted out a whole tranche of this neoliberal BS if they had, useless bastards.

  26. Tracey 26

    Frankly kiwiblog can be equably derisive and lowbrow as some here. I find the level of their vitriol, particularly toward women, maori, gays etc scary. I read Farrar sometimes, but not the threads, for the reasons stated above.

    However given the recent pagani advise to attack sickness beneficiaries I can see why he feels more comfortable at kiwiblog

  27. Tracey 27

    I find it scarier that National’s daily polling must be saying that the “people” agree with the release of this information. Which means that many in NZ believe the right to privacy is only for those in employment, or in employment without injury, or in employment other than teaching.

    We should be as concerned about the direction our fellow citizens wish to travel too.

  28. chris73 28

    and labour wonder why they ain’t in power…

    • xtasy 28.1

      chris73: Your line of thought and question are the perfect summary and close to this thread! It could not have been better worded and placed!

  29. Carol 29

    On Josie P’s truck driver who felt that neither National nor Labour were there for him. Did she ever explain what the truck driver ACTUALLY wanted from a political party? Or was the fact that he was male in a manual job meant to say it all?

  30. infused 30

    I don’t think you guys realise what this place has become. Don’t dare argue with the admins, insta ban.

    • IrishBill 30.1

      Perhaps we can be a touch sensitive but that’s a stance that’s founded in the days when we started up and had real troll problems which lead to every thread descending into a flamewar. I’ve barely banned anyone in the last year or two and you’re clearly able to comment here despite the fact you hardly ever agree with the moderators.

      I actually think we could do to firm our moderation up as I’ve not been happy with some of the behaviour of commenters (on the left and the right) for a few months but I’m not around enough to implement that kind of moderation fairly.

    • Colonial Viper 30.2

      Arguing with admins is a ban on most web forums.

      • IrishBill 30.2.1

        Well I’m an admin. In fact I’m one of the longest standing admins here, and I’m happy to have anyone argue with me as long as it’s done in good faith.

    • SHG 30.3

      Hell, I got banned for posting the results of a Roy Morgan poll with negative numbers for Labour.

      Key’s vicious cycle

      That’s… a touch sensitive.

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Recent Posts

  • Things to know about Whakaari/White Island
    Brad Scott, GNS Science VolcanologistThis post was originally published by GeoNet. Following the 9 December devastating eruption at Whakaari/White Island we have put together some information about the island. New Zealand’s most active volcano Whakaari/White Island is currently New Zealand’s most active volcano, it has been since an eruptive episode ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    13 hours ago
  • Status quo supports status quo
    The Justice Committee has reported back on its Inquiry into the 2017 General Election and 2016 Local Elections, with a host of recommendations about how to improve our electoral systems. Some of their recommendations are already incorporate din the Electoral Amendment Bill currently before Parliament, but there's also a recommendation ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    13 hours ago
  • The Greens abandon NeoLiberalism
    Back in 2017, in order to make themselves "electable" in the eyes of rich people who oppose everything they stand for, the Greens signed up for NeoLiberalism, adopting a restrictive set of "Budget Responsibility Rules" which basicly prevented them from using government to make things better. Now, they're finally abandoning ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    14 hours ago
  • Lying about a failed war
    Since invading in 2001, the US has consistently claimed that their war in Afghanistan has been going well, even when it continued year after year after year. Of course, they were lying, and thanks to the Washington Post and the US Freedom of Information Act, we get to see just ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    15 hours ago
  • Artificial Intelligence and You
    How should we think about artificial intelligence and the implications that it has for our work and leisure? There are many articles on artificial intelligence and its potential impacts on jobs, and the ethics of applications. These are important topics, but I want to focus on some less discussed aspects, ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    17 hours ago
  • Statistical manipulation to get publishable results
    I love data. It’s amazing the sort of “discoveries” I can make given a data set and computer statistical package. It’s just so easy to search for relationships and test their statistical significance. Maybe relationships which ...
    19 hours ago
  • More lies on the Twitter (Dan Hodges edition)
    The other big story concerning Leeds Hospital is Boris Johnson's bizzare behaviour at Leeds Hospital, where he was confronted by a journalist and challenged about a four year old boy with suspected pneumonia who was left sleeping on the floor, rather than getting  abed like a sick kid would in ...
    21 hours ago
  • LabourActivistPunchedMattHancock’sSPADGate
    So, for a brief period of history, it was alleged that a protester had punched Matt Hancock's SPAD (not a euphemism; special adviser) when Hancock visited Leeds Hospital.This was reported by the likes of Robert Peston and Laura Keunssberg, as well as the less credible Guido Fawkes.  It also quickly ...
    22 hours ago
  • France’s anti-Zionism is anti-liberté
    by Daphna Whitmore Last week France passed a law that equates anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. It is based on a definition of anti-Semitism that includes criticism of Israel such as: “Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 days ago
  • Another bus lockout
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Climate Change: Showing us how its done
    The government has been congratulating itself over the passage of the Zero Carbon Act, which sets out long-term emissions targets. But those targets are insufficient. Meanwhile, Denmark is showing us how its done:Denmark’s parliament adopted a new climate law on Friday, committing to reach 70% below its 1990 emissions in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Public sector dysfunction should not be allowed to undermine freedom of information
    Another day, another piece of legislation with a secrecy clause. This time its the innocuous-seeming Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission Bill, which (after establishing a new body and making it subject to the OIA in three different ways) includes the rapidly-becoming-standard clauses enabling it to request information from other public ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • “This is England, this knife of Sheffield steel…”
    The state of the United Kingdom is fractured, torn up, shredded. The Empire is gone, it died a long time ago. And yet, the country is still tracking with a lead in favour of the ones who play to the ingrained, class-bound division for political gain. It is a disgrace ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    3 days ago
  • CORSIA, coming soon to an airport near you
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    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    4 days ago
  • Cloaking hate speech and fake news in the right to free expression.
    It should be obvious by now but let’s be clear: The same folk who regularly traffic in disinformation, misinformation and “fake news” are also those who most strongly claim that their freedom of expression rights are being violated when moves are made to curb hate speech (as opposed to protected ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • The Physics (and Economics, and Politics) of Wheelchairs on Planes
    Michael Schulson When Shane Burcaw flies on an airplane, he brings along a customized gel cushion, a car seat, and about 10 pieces of memory foam. The whole arsenal costs around $1,000, but for Burcaw it’s a necessity. The 27-year-old author and speaker — who, alongside his fiancée, Hannah ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    4 days ago
  • To Advance Civil Rights, Oppose Transgender Extremism
    We are very pleased to publish this submission is from Lucinda Stoan. She is a social justice activist, mother, and educator, based in Washington State in the  US.   This detailed and comprehensive source-linked overview of trans issues and what is at stake will be useful for many people, especially in ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    5 days ago
  • Faafoi should be fired
    Newshub last night reported that Broadcasting Minister Kris Faafoi had apparently promised to help out a mate with an immigration issue. While its normal for people to approach MPs for assistance in this area, when you're a Minister, the rules are different: as the Cabinet Manual says, Ministers must "at ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Adrian Orr – The Reserve Bank’s Revolutionary Governor?
    New Zealand's Underarm Banker: It bears recalling that the “independence” of the Reserve Bank Governor was for decades held up by neoliberal capitalists as the most compelling justification for passing the Reserve Bank Act. Interesting, is it not, how the ruling class’s support for the Bank’s independence lasted no longer than ...
    5 days ago
  • Driving Us Up The Poll.
    Rubbish In, Rubbish Out: Put all this together, and it’s difficult to avoid the conclusion that anyone who responds positively to a pollster’s request to “answer a few questions” is just ever-so-slightly weird. Desperately lonely? Some sort of psephological train-spotter? Political party member primed to skew the poll for or against ...
    5 days ago
  • Jordan Williams, Colin Craig podcast series announced
    “Free at last, Free at last, Thank God almighty we are free at last.” ― Martin Luther King Jr. A long and bitter court feud between former Conservative Party leader Colin Craig and Jordan Williams has been settled, with an apology and compensation from Williams. On Tuesday, Craig sent out ...
    The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
    5 days ago
  • Scientific integrity requires critical investigation – not blind acceptance
    Some people seem to want to close down any critical discussion of the current research into the relationship between water fluoride and child IQ. They appear to argue that claims made by researchers should not be open to critical review and that the claims be accepted without proper consideration ...
    6 days ago
  • Climate Change: The shameful reality
    The government has been congratulating itself over the passage of the Zero Carbon Act, which sets out long-term emissions targets. Meanwhile, Climate Action Tracker has the shameful reality: those targets are insufficient:While New Zealand is showing leadership by having passed the world’s second-ever Zero Carbon Act in November 2019, under ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • More secrecy
    The government introduced a Racing Industry Bill today. As an urban who horse racing as pointless-to-cruel, and gambling as a tax on stupidity and/or hope, this isn't normally a bill which would interest me in the slightest, beyond grumpiness at more government money for a dying industry. But there is ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Unlikely online bully, Liam Hehir
    Check. Check. One, two, three, four. Is this thing ON? Hello readers, I logged in last night (yeah, it’s been a while) to mark THE END of the landmark legal case, Jordan Williams v Colin Craig, which (gulp) reached The Supreme Court, in which New Zealand’s most-defamed man was suing the politician he ...
    The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
    6 days ago
  • The Birth Of Israel: Wrong At The Right Time.
    Before The Birth: Israel’s most fervent supporters set their clocks ticking in Biblical times. They cite the kingdoms of David and Solomon as proof that, in the words of the Exodus movie’s theme-song: “This land is mine.” The majority of Israel’s backers, however, start their clocks in 1933 – the year Adolf ...
    6 days ago
  • Hard News: Public Address Word of the Year 2019: Korero phase
    In an unreliable, strange and confusing world, Public Address is proud to present a measure of comfort and stability by annually asking everyone what words or phrases sum up the year that's been – and then giving some of them consumer goods as prizes for being clever or simply lucky.Well, ...
    6 days ago
  • Generalist to specialist
    Both my parents are pretty handy – and they seem to have the right tools for most jobs in the garage and they know how to fix practically anything. A similar story could be told about their generation’s experience in the workforce – being a generalist was not unusual and ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • A “coincidence”
    When it was revealed that NZ First had tried to enrich itself from public office via the Provoncial Growth Fund, the Prime Minister assured us that everything was OK as Shane Jones, the Minister responsible for the fund, had recused himself. Except it seems that that recusal came very late ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Member’s Day
    Today is a Member's Day, and probably the last one of the year. After the marathon of the End of Life Choice Act, most of the bills up for debate today are uncontentious. First up is the second reading of Chlöe Swarbrick's Election Access Fund Bill. This will be followed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Worse than I thought
    The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee has reported back on the government's odious and tyrannical control orders bill. As expected, the fraudulent select committee process has made no significant changes (partly because they couldn't agree, but mostly because it was a stitch-up from the start, with no intention of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • The cannabis bill and the referendum
    Yesterday, the government released its draft Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill, which will be put to a non-binding referendum at the next election. I'm not a drug policy expert, but Russell Brown is, and he thinks its pretty good. And pretty obviously, it will be a massive improvement on the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Hard News: The Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill: pretty good so far
    As you're probably aware, the draft bill outlining the proposed legal cannabis regime to be put to a referendum late next year was published yesterday, and has already attracted a flurry of comment. It's notable that a good deal of the comment is about proposals that aren't actually new.A minimum ...
    7 days ago
  • Climate Change: Alignment
    One of the big problems in New Zealand climate change policy is the government working at cross-purposes with itself. It wants to reduce fossil fuel use, but encourages oil and gas exploration. It wants to reduce transport emissions, but then builds enormous new roads. The problem could be avoided if ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • How climate change will affect food production and security
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz According to the United Nations, food shortages are a threat ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    7 days ago
  • More bad faith
    Last year, the government announced it was ending offshore oil exploration by no longer issuing new permits. The idea was that the industry would then die off as permits expired. Except almost immediately the government revealed its bad faith, by saying they would extend permits and alter conditions to keep ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Banning foreign money from our elections
    The government has said it will ban foreign donations to political parties and candidates, and will be introducing legislation to be passed under all-stages urgency this afternoon. While I agree with the goal, I don't see a particular case for urgency, unless the government is concerned about a flood of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Reforming the Education Acts
    The government introduced the Education and Training Bill to Parliament yesterday. Its a massive bill, which replaces both existing Education Acts, as well as various other bits of legislation (including some which are still proceeding through the House). I'll leave the serious analysis to teachers and people who actually know ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Bite-sized learning
    Amelia SharmanThere’s no one-size-fits-all when it comes to micro-credentials, those bits of bite-sized learning that can help workers stay on top of technological change.  What’s a micro-credential? While definitions vary, micro-credentials can be understood as short courses that allow people to learn new skills or have an existing competency recognised. ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • “Not The Labour Party We Once Knew.”
    All Smiles Now: Claire Szabo is taking up her presidential role after serving as the CEO of Habitat For Humanity. Which is absolutely perfect! After KiwiBuild was so comprehensively mismanaged by Phil Twyford, the party has not only elected a new president from a thoroughly respectable not-for-profit, but one who ...
    1 week ago
  • Marxist versus liberal methodology on transgender ideology/identity politics
    While much of the NZ left has transitioned to postmodern and identity politics in relation to transgender ideology, there are some very good articles about that deploy Marxist methodology in relation to this subject.  The one below is from the British marxist group Counterfire and appeared on their site here ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Book review: The Farm by Joanne Ramos
    by Daphna Whitmore At Golden Oaks, a luxurious country retreat in the Hudson Valley, pregnant women have the best care money can buy. From the organic food, personalised exercise programmes, private yoga instruction and daily massages Golden Oaks looks like a country lodge for the upper class. Set some time ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Loosening the purse strings
    When Labour was running for election in 2017, it felt it needed to demonstrate "fiscal responsibility" and signed itself up to masochistic "budget responsibility rules". It was a fool's errand: the sorts of voters who demand fiscal responsibility are also the sorts of voters who believe that labour can never ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: How to get there
    Writing in Stuff, Joel MacManus looks at what we need to do to meet the Zero Carbon Act's targets. The core of it:1. Convert 85 per cent of vehicles on the road to electric. 2. Eliminate fossil fuels from all industrial heating up to 300 degrees Celsius. 3. Double our ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • anti-vaxxers in a measles epidemic: so many ways to be untruthful
    “Anti-vaxers are a pro-death movement,” those comments from Dr Helen Petousis-Harris speaking about six more Measles related deaths in Samoa over the past twenty-four hours. “Anti-vaxers are a pro-death movement,” those comments from Dr Helen Petousis-Harris speaking about six more Measles related deaths in Samoa ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    1 week ago
  • Is Youth Vaping a Problem in New Zealand?
    Professors Janet Hoek and Richard Edwards, Emeritus Professor Phil Gendall, Jude Ball, Dr Judith McCool, Anaru Waa, Dr Becky Freeman Recent media reports have presented conflicting evidence on youth vaping in NZ. While some NZ school principals report concerns about increasing vaping on school grounds and confiscating vapes, ASH Year ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • In pursuit of “Freedom and Democracy”: Forever Wars in “America’s backyard”.
    “America the Beautiful!”, staunch defender of democracy, freedom and… a whole lot of despotic tyrants that play nice with what is called “the Washington Consensus.” America is indeed capable of immense good, but like any Nation, and most assuredly any aspirant to the mantle of Empire, great, immense evil. All ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • November ’19 – NZ blogs sitemeter ranking
    Image credit: The beginner’s guide to blogging I notice a few regulars no longer allow public access to the site counters. This may happen accidentally when the blog format is altered. If your blog is ...
    1 week ago
  • Whodunnit? Finding the mystery 1080 testing lab
    1080 is used to control pests in NZ. Its use is contested by a noisy few. A new report claims high levels of 1080 in rats washed up on a beach. Flora and Fauna of Aotearoa (F&F) won’t name the laboratory that did their testing. It has sparked a hunt ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    1 week ago
  • Authoritarian Friends, Democratic Enemies.
    What Kind Of Empire? The thing for Kiwis to decide is what kind of empire they want to belong to. The kind that, while offering its own citizens democratic rights, demands absolute obedience from its “friends”? Or, the kind that, while authoritarian at home, takes a relaxed attitude to the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Boris Johnson Goes Down
    It hasn't been a good week for the Conservatives, pollwise.  All major recent polls are showing their lead shrinking.Comparing each pollster's current (between 29/11 and 22/11) and previous most recent poll.Com Res - Conservative lead down 3 points.You Gov - Conservative lead down 1 point.Kantar - Conservative lead down 4 ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Interesting
    Within quick succession, Countdown maths wizard and twitterer Rachel Riley, alleged comedian David Baddiel and prominent lawyer Andrew Julius have all expressed very similar opinions / ideas:
    These #3billboards are going round London today, organised by ex-Labour people, horrified by what their party has become. Their principles haven’t changed, they’re ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Damn the Polls
    So, there have been a bunch of bad polls out for Labour, and even the Leftie's friend, Survation, have recently given the Conservatives a rip-snorting 11% lead.  You Gov's much vaunted MRP poll - which pretty much nailed the result in 2015 - is currently predicting a comfortable majority for ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Europe declares an emergency
    The European Parliament has voted overwhelmingly to declare a climate emergency:The European parliament has declared a global “climate and environmental emergency” as it urged all EU countries to commit to net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. The vote came as scientists warned that the world may have already crossed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • A Bi-Partisan Commitment To X-ing “P”.
    Pure Fear: Worse than Heroin, this drug’s addictive power was terrifying. People under its influence didn’t drift off to Elysium. Nor did it persuade inadequate individuals that they could conquer the world. No, this drug – pure crystal methamphetamine, “P” for short – unlocked the gates of Hell itself. It ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Advice about measles: when ignorance is definitely not a virtue
    As the rate of measles infection, and of deaths, continues to climb in Samoa, antivaccination activists infectious disease proponents seem intent on doubling down on their claims about vaccination. (Check pretty much any news-media FB post about measles & you’ll see exactly what I mean.) Unfortunately, some of them have ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    2 weeks ago
  • Samoa’s devastating measles epidemic – why and how bad?
    Samoa are experiencing a devastating measles epidemic. It is possible that 2-3% of the population will ultimately be infected by the time it is over. Hopefully the mass immunisation campaign currently under way can mitigate some of this, for many it is too late. The first question many people ask ...
    SciBlogsBy Helen Petousis Harris
    2 weeks ago
  • “It’s basic rights we are defending”: the Meghan Murphy interview
    Meghan Murphy is a Canadian writer and journalist She runs the Feminist Current website which she founded in 2012.  She was a keynote speaker for the Feminism2020 conference in Wellington this month. When Massey University cancelled the original venue booking Feminism2020 was hosted in Parliament by MP David Seymour. Meghan ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • A week of protests in Colombia
    Text and photos by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh Colombia has lived through one week of protests against the economic measures taken by president Duque. What looked like a protest that would fizzle out after its first day on November 21st is still going strong. Part of the reason for the continuance ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Anti-neutrinos–When you are your own opposite
    Around a million billion pass through you each second, almost all originating from our sun, but few of them are likely to interact with you enroute. I was reading in a physics magazine earlier in the week about the nature of neutrinos. These are extremely numerous elementary particles, but only ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    2 weeks ago
  • Exoplanets, life, and the danger of a single study
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    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • The Intersex Continuum
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    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Leaving us with the bill
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • How much does flying contribute to climate change?
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz How much does our use of air travel contribute to the ...
    SciBlogsBy Shaun Hendy
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: The task before us
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Among my favourite asteroids: (2309) Mr. Spock
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    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    2 weeks ago
  • Measles deaths and antivax misinformation
    Today the death toll from measles in Samoa rose to 32. All but four of the dead were less than 5 years old. Absolutely terrible, heartbreaking, news. That statistic alone should be enough to give the lie to the common claim by antivaccination activists plague enthusiasts that “measles is a ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    2 weeks ago
  • Colombia: the state murder of Dilan Cruz
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh It is late here in Bogotá, almost 11.30pm on Monday the 25th of November as I write this. The day began full of hope with yet more massive marches throughout the country, a mix of the International Day of Non-Violence Against Women and the National Strike. ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Anti-fluoride propagandists appear not to read the articles they promote
    Anti-fluoride activists are rubbing their hands in glee over what they claim is “yet another study” showing fluoride harms the brains of children. But their promotion relies on IQ relationships which the paper’s authors acknowledge disappearing when outliers or other factors are considered. And they completely ignore other relationships ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The rise and collapse of classical political economy
    The feature below is the conclusion of A History of Economic Thought, whose author was a leading Marxist economist in Russia in the early 20th century, Isaac Ilyich Rubin.  The book arose from a course he ran at Moscow University following the Russian Revolution.  First published in Russian in 1929, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Among my favourite asteroids: (2472) Bradman
    There are many thousands of asteroids with formal names, some humdrum but other more noteworthy (depending on your predilections). One of my favourites, the name of which I was involved in suggesting, is (2472) Bradman, named for the Australian cricketing great.  As a minor planet (synonym: asteroid) spotter, I have ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    2 weeks ago
  • Some cheap soundbites i thought up while reading about the underwhelming Conservative manifesto
    Tory manifesto: big on austerity, low on promise, non-existent on delivery. The Tories: the party so big on ambition they couldn't be arsed writing a manifesto. MLK: "I have a dream!"BJ: "I'll just have a nap." Labour: Broadband!Tories: Narrow minds! Labour have hope, dreams and ambition. The Tories will save ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Measles vaccination required to travel to islands and Phillipines
    The Ministry of Health has announced that “people under the age of 50 travelling from New Zealand to Samoa, Tonga, Philippines and Fiji” are now on the list of national priorities for MMR vaccination. Given the outbreaks of measles in Samoa, Tonga, Philippines and Fiji, the Ministry of Health is ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    2 weeks ago
  • Giving the finger to Beijing
    Hong Kong has been protesting for six months for, demanding democracy, human rights, and an end to police violence. Today, they went to the polls in district council elections - a low-level of government with virtually no power, similar to community boards in New Zealand. But while the positions themselves ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Colombia’s national strike
    Text and photos by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh On Friday 22nd of November a curfew came into effect and troops were deployed on the streets, here in Bogota. It was the first time since September 1977 that a curfew had been imposed on the city. The decision was a cynical pre-planned ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago

  • Final steps for racing industry reform
    Racing Minister Winston Peters has welcomed the first reading of the Racing Industry Bill in parliament today. This is the second of two Bills that have been introduced this year to revitalise New Zealand’s racing industry. “Our domestic racing industry has been in serious decline.  The Government is committed to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • Funding to promote New Zealand Sign Language initiatives
    Minister for Disability Issues, Carmel Sepuloni, is pleased to announce that $291,321 is to be awarded to national and local community initiatives to maintain and promote the use of New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL). “New Zealand is one of the few countries  in the world where Sign Language is an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • How New Zealand defines and recognises veterans
    Minister for Veterans Ron Mark has announced today the Coalition Government’s initial response to work completed by the independent statutory body, the Veterans’ Advisory Board. “When Professor Ron Paterson completed his review of the Veterans’ Support Act in 2018, he made a number of recommendations, including one which I referred ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Government to fund lion’s share of Ohakea water scheme
    The Government will fund the bulk of the cost of a rural water supply for the Ohakea community affected by PFAS contamination, Environment Minister David Parker announced today at a meeting of local residents. This new water scheme will provide a reliable and clean source of drinking water to the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Prime Minister statement on White Island eruption
    I have had the opportunity to be briefed on the details of the volcanic eruption of Whakaari/White Island, off the coast of Whakatane in the Bay of Plenty.  The eruption happened at 2.11pm today.  It continues to be an evolving situation.  We know that there were a number of tourists ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Govt funds $100k for weather-hit communities
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare have today confirmed initial Government support of $100,000 for communities affected by the severe weather that swept across the South Island and lower North Island over the weekend. The contribution will be made to Mayoral relief funds across the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Death of NZ High Commissioner to Cook Islands
    New Zealand's High Commissioner to the Cook Islands, Tessa Temata, died in Palmerston North over the weekend, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said today. Ms Temata, 52, had recently returned to New Zealand for medical treatment. "On behalf of the Government and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, we extend ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Wellington rail upgrade full steam ahead
    Transport Minister Phil Twyford today announced construction is underway on Wellington commuter rail upgrades which will mean more frequent services and fewer breakdowns. The upgrades include converting the Trentham to Upper Hutt single track section to a double track, with a new signalling system, upgraded stations and level crossings, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Defence Climate Change Implementation Plan released
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark and Minister for Climate Change James Shaw have announced the release of a Defence Climate Change Implementation Work Plan, titled Responding to the Climate Crisis: An Implementation Plan.  The plan sets out a series of recommendations based on the 2018 New Zealand Defence Assessment, The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Govt releases funding to support South Canterbury
    A medium-scale adverse event has been declared for the South Canterbury district, which will see up to $50,000 in funding made available to support farming communities which have been significantly affected by recent heavy rain and flooding in the area, says Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. “Two weeks of solid rain ...
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    3 days ago
  • Speech at launch of Rethinking Plastics Report
    Thank you Professor Juliet Gerrard and your team for the comprehensive and extremely helpful report and recommendations. Thank you too to all the stakeholders and interested parties who have contributed ideas and thinking to it. “Making best practice, standard practice” is a great framework for change and the action plan ...
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    3 days ago
  • Govt pledges next steps on plastic waste
    The Government will phase out more single-use plastics following the success of its single-use plastic bag ban earlier this year and the release today of a pivotal report for dealing with waste. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has welcomed the Rethinking Plastics in Aotearoa New Zealandreport, released by her Chief Science Advisor ...
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    3 days ago
  • International student enrolments grow in universities and the regions
    International education continues to thrive as the Government focuses on quality over quantity, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. The tuition revenue from international education increased to $1.16 billion last year with the average tuition fee per student increasing by $960. The total number of international students enrolled in New Zealand ...
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    3 days ago
  • Speech to Government Economics Network 2019 Conference
    I want to talk about one of the most pressing issues in our national life: the housing crisis and the poor performance of our cities. The argument I want to make to you is that generations of urban land use policy have lacked a decent grounding in economics. The consequences ...
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    4 days ago
  • DHB leadership renewed and strengthened
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says new appointments to DHBs represent a significant changing of the guard, with 13 new chairs including four Māori chairs. Today 76 appointments have been announced to complement elected board members, as well as eight elected members appointed as either chair or deputy chair.  Four ...
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    4 days ago
  • Tabuteau to advance New Zealand’s trade and political interests with European partners
    Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs, Fletcher Tabuteau, is travelling to Germany, Poland, Austria, and Spain next week to bolster New Zealand’s political and trade relationships in Europe. While in Spain, Mr Tabuteau will represent New Zealand at the 14th Asia-Europe (ASEM) Foreign Ministers’ Meeting in Madrid. “New Zealand strongly supports ...
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    5 days ago
  • Statement from the Prime Minister on Kris Faafoi
    “I’ve spoken to Minister Faafoi, who has apologised for his poor handling of this issue,” Jacinda Ardern said. “I have confidence in Kris as a hardworking and effective Minister, but this should have been dealt with in a much clearer manner, and I’ve made my views on that very clear ...
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    5 days ago
  • Tonga-New Zealand Joint Ministerial Forum
    Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters met with Tongan Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pohiva Tu'i'onetoa in Wellington today. The pair signed a Statement of Partnership setting out joint priorities for cooperation out to 2023.  “We welcomed Prime Minister Tu'i'onetoa on his first visit to New Zealand as Prime Minister. Tonga ...
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    5 days ago
  • Shooting in Kurow
    The Minister of Police Stuart Nash says his sympathies are with the family of a man who died after being shot by Police in Kurow. “Initial reports are that Police were called by a family member to help the man who was threatening to harm himself,” Mr Nash says. “However ...
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    5 days ago
  • Government delivers funding boost for ethnic communities
    Ethnic communities will be able to plan and deliver more community initiatives thanks to an increase in Government funding, Minister for Ethnic Communities Hon Jenny Salesa said today. “Ensuring Aotearoa New Zealand is a place we can all be proud to call home has been a key priority of our ...
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    5 days ago
  • Govt supports Southland farmers in sustainability
    Healthier waterways, better productivity and farmer wellbeing are front and centre in a new project involving more than 1000 Southland farmers and growers. Minister of Agriculture Damien O’Connor today announced that the Thriving Southland Change and Innovation Project is the first region-wide extension programme supported by the $229 million Sustainable ...
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    5 days ago
  • Flood of support for Top of the South catchment
    Work to look after nature and restore freshwater quality in Te Hoiere/Pelorus River catchment is getting a significant boost, thanks to new Government funding support Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage announced in Canvastown today. “Every New Zealander should be able to swim in their local river without getting sick, and ...
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    5 days ago
  • Eight Queen’s Counsel appointed under new criterion
    Eight Queen’s Counsel have been appointed under a process that includes the new criterion of a commitment to improving access to justice, Attorney-General David Parker announced today. “The new criterion was included this year. It emphasises that excellence and leadership in the profession can be seen through a wider, community ...
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    6 days ago
  • Major expansion for Wellington’s Onslow College
    Onslow College in Wellington will get 20 new classrooms for more than 400 students, Education Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. The much-needed investment will relieve growth pressure the school has been experiencing for some time. Seven existing classrooms which have deteriorated over time will also be replaced, bringing the total ...
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    6 days ago
  • Talented young Kiwis awarded PM’s Scholarships to Asia and Latin America
    More than 250 young New Zealanders will add international experience to their education, thanks to the latest Prime Minister’s Scholarships for Asia (PMSA) and Latin America (PMSLA), Education Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. This round of scholarships supports 252 recent graduates or current students to undertake study, research or internships ...
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    6 days ago
  • Government to improve competitiveness and transparency in the retail fuel market
    Consumers will benefit from a more competitive, transparent retail fuel market as a result of changes the Government will be making in response to the findings of the Commerce Commission’s study of the fuel sector. “We accept the Commission’s findings and, as the Prime Minister has said, we’re ready to ...
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    6 days ago
  • More cancer medicines for more people
    Five new cancer medicines have now been funded this year, meaning thousands of people have more treatment options PHARMAC has today announced that it has approved two new medicines for funding – fulvestrant for breast cancer and olaparib for ovarian cancer. This follows earlier decisions on advanced lung cancer treatment alectinib, ...
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    6 days ago
  • Government acts to sort out electoral ‘coin toss’ problem
    The Minister of Local Government, Hon Nanaia Mahuta says the Government will consider making changes to local electoral legislation before the 2022 elections to fix the problems that have arisen where elections are settled by a coin toss.  The Minister says the recount process in the Murupara- Galatea ward at ...
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    6 days ago
  • NZ to Join IMO Convention to Reduce Ship Emissions
    New Zealand will sign up to new international maritime regulations to reduce ship emissions and lift air quality around ports and harbours, Associate Transport Minister Julie Anne Genter announced today. Subject to completion of the Parliamentary treaty examination process, New Zealand will sign up to Annex VI of MARPOL, an ...
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    7 days ago
  • Bill to empower urban development projects
    New legislation to transform our urban areas and create sustainable, inclusive and thriving communities will tomorrow be introduced to Parliament, Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford said. “The Urban Development Bill gives Kāinga Ora-Homes and Communities the tools it needs to partner with councils, communities, mana whenua and private developers to ...
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    7 days ago
  • Early Learning Action Plan to kickstart long term change
    Today’s launch of He taonga te Tamaiti: Every child a taonga: The Early Learning Action Plan 2019-2029 provides the foundation for long-lasting changes to early learning, Education Minister Chris Hipkins says.   “Early learning will be one of the Government’s top education priorities going into 2020,” Chris Hipkins said.   ...
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    7 days ago
  • Climate change lens on major Government decisions
    Major decisions made by the Government will now be considered under a climate change lens, Minister for Climate Change James Shaw announced today. “Cabinet routinely considers the effects of its decisions on human rights, the Treaty of Waitangi, rural communities, the disability community, and gender – now climate change will ...
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    7 days ago
  • New Tertiary Education Commission Board announced
    Education Minister Chris Hipkins today announced the appointment of Māori education specialist Dr Wayne Ngata and Business NZ head Kirk Hope to the Board of the Tertiary Education Commission (TEC). Dr Alastair MacCormick has been reappointed for another term. “Wayne Ngata, Kirk Hope and Alastair MacCormick bring a great deal ...
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    7 days ago
  • Next phase of Pike River recovery underway in time for Christmas
    The next phase of the Pike River Re-entry project is underway, Minister Responsible for Pike River Re-entry Andrew Little says. “Fresh air will be pumped into the Pike River Mine drift this week, following acceptance of the plan for re-entry beyond the 170m barrier by New Zealand’s independent health and ...
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    7 days ago
  • Insurance contracts to become easier to understand and fairer for consumers
    New Zealand consumers will have greater certainty about their insurance cover when they need to make claims as a result of proposed government changes. “Insurance is vitally important in supporting consumers and businesses to be financially resilient when unexpected events happen,” Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs Kris Faafoi said. ...
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    7 days ago
  • A new opportunity for Ngāpuhi collective and regional negotiations
    The Crown is providing an opportunity for the hapu of Ngāpuhi to rebuild its framework from the ground up for collective negotiations to deal with its historical Treaty claims, Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Andrew Little and Minister for Māori Development Nanaia Mahuta announced today. The Crown is also ...
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    1 week ago
  • Referendums Framework Bill passes third reading
    A Bill enabling referendums to be held with the 2020 General Election has passed its third reading. Justice Minister Andrew Little says the Act is important for upholding the integrity of New Zealand’s electoral process. “The Government has committed to holding a referendum on legalising recreational cannabis at the next ...
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    1 week ago
  • Referendums website and initial cannabis Bill launched
    The first release of public information on the two referendums to be held at next year’s General Election was made today with an informative new Government website going live. Additionally, the draft Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill has been released, showing the strict controls on cannabis that will apply if ...
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    1 week ago
  • Government to ban foreign donations
    The Government is taking action to protect New Zealand from foreign interference in our elections by banning foreign donations to political parties and candidates, Justice Minister Andrew Little announced today. Legislation will be introduced to Parliament this afternoon and passed under urgency. “There’s no need for anyone other than New ...
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    1 week ago
  • Governments and tech converge to strengthen joint response to online terror events
    Governments and tech companies are holding a two-day workshop, hosted by YouTube/Google in Wellington, to test the Christchurch Call Shared Crisis Response Protocol. The workshop aims to refine and strengthen the response in the event of a terrorist attack with online implications. Companies, governments, civil society experts and NGOs will ...
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    1 week ago