US Election Day Discussion Post 9/11/16

Written By: - Date published: 5:55 am, November 9th, 2016 - 500 comments
Categories: us politics, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags: , ,

In order to free up Open Mike and Daily Review for other conversations we are asking that all discussion, posting of links etc on the US election go in this daily dedicated thread rather than OM or DR.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

There will continue to be author-written posts on the US election as well, usual rules apply there too.

Coverage Links

Democracy Now! live stream coverage

The Guardian (Australia) explanation of the election, electoral college, swing states, and Congress, the Senate and the House.

The Guardian’s minute by minute update coverage[updated link]

FiveThirtyEight

FiverThirtyEight’s How To Watch Tuesday’s House Results Like A Pro

CNN’s handy national results map.

The Guardian’s useful election night survival guide.

Coverage of hour by hour poll closing and what is happening with the electoral college votes,

Polling in the Eastern states will start to close by 1pm NZT and projections will begin.

Polls in the West will close by 5pm (7pm in Alaska which shouldn’t affect the result). This is the earliest time that the election can be called, and traditionally media wait until then, but the Guardian is suggesting results are likely to be around 6pm NZT.

ABC coverage (NZ is 2 hours ahead of EDST)

Guardian Australia (NZ is 2 hours ahead of EDST)

BBC Hour by Hour page (NZ is 13 hours ahead of GMT)

The Green Papers poll closing times and votes (NZ is 13 hours ahead of UTC)

The Telegraph’s countdown.

Timezone comparison

Voters waiting to vote in polling place

500 comments on “US Election Day Discussion Post 9/11/16”

  1. r0b 1

    If the polls are right, Clinton wins handily. If there is a big “silent” Trump vote, then there could be an upset. We’ll soon know!

  2. Andre 2

    I’d like to start with a huge thank you to weka (and everybody else at TS behind the scenes) that’s been putting the work in to make these election discussion posts available. Much appreciated.

    • r0b 2.1

      weka – hear hear!

      • Karen 2.1.1

        +1
        And this is for Weka – not sure if you have seen this twitter thread but I think you would find it interesting.

        🌊
        ‏@leahmcelrath
        But create a safe space (another term subjected to mockery) for women, and, within days, the space is receiving close to 300K POSTS PER DAY.

        • weka 2.1.1.1

          Is that Pantsuit Nation? I only heard about it this morning, Stephanie did a great post on that and women’s space. Very interesting dynamic on many levels.

          https://bootstheory.wordpress.com/2016/11/09/untroll-the-internet-pantsuit-nation/

          • Karen 2.1.1.1.1

            Message to Weka – yes that is the space I was referring to. I saw Stephanie’s blog after I had left that comment. Sorry I didn’t get back to you – this is the first time I have looked at the The Standard since leaving the comment. I only came back to read Robert’s post.

            I appreciate all you have done to make The Standard a better place and the contributions from some others – Rob, Marty Mars, Mickey, Joe90 and a few others. The problem is that the people I feel kindred too are too few and the misogyny, racism, bullying, ignorance and lack of empathy seems to dominate.

            The rise of fascism in USA and Europe quite frankly terrifies me and I can no longer spend time with people who are willing to ignore or condone racism, misogyny, and violations of human rights. I glanced at the titles of the posts here and feel I made the right decision to boycott TS and put my energy elsewhere.

            Good luck.

            • weka 2.1.1.1.1.1

              Thanks Karen. I totally get why you want to leave, and I really wish you would stay and help make it right. I’ve got a post going up in the next day or so that addresses what you have just said, about the culture on TS in the context of Trump-culture. I will be moderating strongly, and I hope you can come back and comment even if to say what you have just said. Thanks for your encouragement and your presence on TS which I have always appreciated.

              • Karen

                Weka – I am writing here so that this is most likely read by you and nobody else. I don’t want to get into arguments with the usual suspects, but I want to clarify a couple of things.

                I read yesterday’s Open Mike and see that CV’s author rights have been curtailed somewhat in that his posts will (presumably) be vetted. Personally that is not enough for me as he will still remain here supporting fascism and misrepresenting the views of those who challenge him. Trump is surrounding himself with white suprematist, kleptocrats who see nothing wrong with torture, who loathe the free press, who have no regard for LGBT rights, women’s rights, who dismiss climate change ….. I know don’t have to tell you these things.

                The point is that that CV has been promoting Putin for months who also is exactly the same. Earlier this year Pascal’s Bookie put in a lot time challenging all the rubbish that CV wrote about Russia but he too seems to have given up on the Standard. It just takes too much energy.

                Most of us work – we don’t have time to counter all the propaganda. Yet seeing all this crap on The Standard day after day is distressing. I came here to discuss things with other left wingers. There always were some right wingers but that was okay. They were in a minority and when the trolling got too much they got a ban. The difference with CV is that he is clever enough to avoid a ban (apart from that one a few weeks ago) and he has a group of acolytes who reinforce what he says, and attack anyone criticising him.

                I see TRP has received a ban. I didn’t have as much problem with him, though he is possibly the reason we have lost Felix and Tracey (both were big losses). He definitely needs time out from time to time.
                Karol was the person I miss most, but there are others who don’t seem to be commenting who were always worth reading – Rosie and Sabine come to mind.

                There has never been anybody commenting here who I always agree with – I am not looking for an echo chamber. I just don’t want to be in the same space as CV who is someone I have come to despise. I think he is dangerous and destructive at a time when the left needs to come together to fight the rise of fascism. I have studied politics and history – I do not think I am overstating the danger.

                • Andre

                  Karen, you might be surprised at how many people like me would see you’ve made a comment and and click on it because they’re interested in what you have to say.

                • weka

                  Hi Karen, I’m pretty much in complete agreement with your analysis there of the danger and the dynamics. And the list of good left wing people who have left is now far too long.

                  CV has just been banned for a week. If you feel like being here this week and talking about what the Standard could and should be, I will probably put up a post on this.

                  Not today as I am exhausted from everything that went down yesterday, front and back end, including writing the long post that I referred to in my previous comment that is probably now redundant or needs a big revision. I think we also lost one of the long time authors in that process, which I am fairly gutted about. I need time to recoup.

                  But I do think there is an opportunity here to talk about what we want, without it turning into a shitfight. I know there is at least one author who also wants us to be thinking about the site in the context of next year. I also have a better understanding now about why the site is run as loosely as it is, and I’d like to talk on the front end about that and see where things can be tweaked to make it a safer space and more adhering to the original purpose of the site.

                  As an aside to that, I am developing a proposal about women writers on TS to put to the other authors and I would like to talk that through with some Standardista women. Would you be ok if I emailed you? (I can get your address from the backend). I completely understand if that’s not ok too.

    • Cinny 2.3

      + infinity

    • Good call, Andre! Weka has done an admirable job of looking after the daily posts and this election day effort is excellent. I think everybody associated with TS deserves a pat on the back for posting, moderating, commenting, and debating what has been one of the most memorable elections of our times.

      Despite the occasional lapse into bad taste and poor form, it’s remarkable how engaging and spirited the discussion has been for the last few months. I expect today to be no different!

      • Anne 2.4.1

        I think everybody associated with TS deserves a pat on the back for posting, moderating, commenting, and debating what has been one of the most memorable elections of our times.

        Indeed. Thank-you. I am a far better informed person because of it.

    • Manuka AOR 2.5

      Absolutely!! (Thank you Weka, and all)

    • Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster 2.6

      Yes, thanks Weka and the other moderators.

      Its been an entertaining time!! Thank God it’s soon to be over – bar the shouting (and perhaps worse!)

      • Pasupial 2.6.1

        +1 to both of TV’s statements (though you do have to have a peculiar definition of; “entertaining”).

    • Macro 2.7

      I would like to add my thanks too to all those above. Well done.

    • Colonial Viper 2.8

      It has been a fantastic idea, and definitely made OM readable again.

    • weka 2.9

      Thanks everyone! I’m so glad that it worked out, which is due to all of us. Cheers to micky for the original idea.

      Btw, having a long line of positive feedback like this definitely helps both with motivation (ts can be a harsh place to be at times), and with knowing what people want.

      • Manuka AOR 2.9.1

        Now in the last hours of the run-up, again, heartfelt thanks Weka. You’ve helped keep things sane and humane through these unsettling times.

    • One Two 2.10

      Nice thoughts, Andre

      Indeed it was an excellent idea

    • McFlock 2.11

      my belated addition to the list of thanks 🙂

    • miravox 2.12

      +1

      Cheers.

  3. North 3

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11744600

    The other side of CV’s “Easy win Trump November” coin.

  4. Cinny 4

    What a fascinating election it’s been, especially when one can’t stand either of the candidates.

    Today is 9/11 my deepest sympathies to all voters in the USA.

    • Garibaldi 4.1

      You’ve got 9/11 around the wrong way Cinny. We see it as 11/9.
      “Can’t stand either candidate”. I agree. For me it’s going to be a great disappointment whatever the outcome.

      • Cinny 4.1.1

        i’m a numbers kind of girl, it’s our 9/11. Both 9 and 11 are very significant numbers

        Mos def agree with you that it will be a great disappointment no matter the outcome.

        • Manuka AOR 4.1.1.1

          In contrast, I feel overwhelmingly optimistic about the future, for some strange reason. (Because I am certain the truly malignant one has been seen for what he is, and will not get in.)

          • Cinny 4.1.1.1.1

            Lesser of the two evils situation for me. A choice between the Clinton establishment dynasty and the Agent Orange psycho.

            I’d vote Stein, in the hopes of pushing Greens up to 5% so they can get a piece of the funding for next time.

            I’m rather interested in how the financial markets will react to the outcome.

  5. Lanthanide 5

    I have a sneaky feeling that Clinton will underperform in Pennsylvania, possibly even losing it – but she’ll win Florida and possibly North Carolina.

    I’ve got the day off work so I can watch the proceedings 🙂

  6. Andre 6

    Yikes. RealClearPolitics no swing states map is giving all the swing states (except New Hampshire) to Trump. 272 for Clinton, 266 for Trump. With Washington’s 2 threatened faithless electors that would put Clinton on 270.

    I need to go put fresh undies on.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_elections_electoral_college_map_no_toss_ups.html

  7. red-blooded 7

    I can’t claim to be a strong fan of Clinton, but she’s not as bad as many on this site portray her and she is:
    A) female (about bloody time!), &
    B) not that arsehole Trump!

    Go Hillary!

    • Manuka AOR 7.1

      She is super strong, has had a lifetime of dealing with sleazies and crap merchants – She inspires me.

      • One Two 7.1.1

        Hillary Clinton is an inspiration to you?

        Could you share any other examples of those who inspire you?

    • Anne 7.2

      @ red-blooded
      +100

    • One Two 7.3

      Nobody in this site knows ‘how bad’ Clinton or any of the names talked about on this site, actually are…it’s pure speculation

      Forming opinions, making statements , and ‘taking sides” based on staged and manipulating media sources is an expose into the psyche of humanity’s decline in cognizant capabalities

      1. Has a vagina
      2. Is not that other arsehole

      That Anne was impressed with such a low quality assessment is a somewhat sad affirmation of my observation

    • Siobhan 7.4

      Hey Ladies…can’t we lift the bar a bit on our “Heroines”??

      Maggie Thatcher a)has a vagina b)not Hitler

      Sarah Palin a)has a vagina b)Not Chaney

      I could go on, and on, and on…and I’m all for affirmative action, but not when it comes to Voting for the Leader of ‘The Free World’.

      And sure, she is not Trump, but she is Hillary and the lesser of two evils…is still evil.

  8. Andre 8

    Yet another form of voter suppression that falls most heavily on minorities.

    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/8/13473388/why-vote-matter-rights

  9. Puckish Rogue 11

    Yes its an ad but for a little bit of levity:

    I think we can all agree that dogs are good 🙂

  10. Cinny 12

    AJ is reporting that hispanic voters are turning out in droves

    http://live.aljazeera.com/Event/US_Election_2016

    • Colonial Viper 13.1

      Clinton is the very representative status quo 0.1%’er corporatocracy. Nothing will change except an acceleration of the neocon/free trade agenda.

      • Manuka AOR 13.1.1

        I think you are wrong. I believe we are on the edge of a deep and fundamental change, – though this may only become apparent from 2020.

      • Kevin 13.1.2

        Agreed.

        A vote for Clinton is a vote for the status quo. Corporate bought and paid for representation and all that that entails

        Trump is the wrong messenger, by any measure, but the message of change required is real.

        If Clinton wins, I do not look forward to the escalation in tension with Russia and then China. The world, most definitely, will not be a safer place.

  11. VIDEO: Voter Fraud Caught on Camera in Pennsylvania (Election 2016)

    PENNSYLVANIA – Voters in Clinton Township are reporting seeing voting machines switch their votes from Donald Trump to Hillary Clinton before their very eyes. CBS Pittsburgh spoke to Bobbie Lee Hawranko who said:

    “I went back, pressed Trump again. Three times I did this, so then I called one of the women that were working the polls over. And she said you must be doing it wrong. She did it three times and it defaulted to Hillary every time”

    [if you are going to quote something, then put in a link to what you are quoting so that people can see the context. This is my only warning to you on this, because I don’t want to spend today double checking people’s comments who are too lazy or wanting to mislead by not linking. Looks like you comment came from here https://www.conservativeoutfitters.com/blogs/news/video-voter-fraud-caught-on-camera-in-pennsylvania-election-2016 If you want to assert fraud, please provide some evidence (this looks just as likely to be an IT issue as fraud – weka]

  12. Puckish Rogue 16

    So does anyone want to take any bets on Chelsea Clinton running for president in approx. 20 years time?

    I mean its only been Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama (but nearly Clinton), Clinton (but could have been another Bush) so far

    • Lanthanide 16.1

      As I said yesterday, I think dynastic politics in the US is an anomaly, and they’ll go back to having unrelated nominees in the years ahead.

      • Andre 16.1.1

        There’s been more than few dynasties in American politics, starting with John Adams/John Quincy Adams. The Kennedys, Romneys, Bushes, Clintons (wouldn’t count the Roosevelts, too distantly related), so I wouldn’t count it out. But so far Chelsea seems not to be interested.

        • Puckish Rogue 16.1.1.1

          Give it a couple of decades though and considering she’s doing a lot of work for The Clinton Foundation it suggests to me she’s lining up a political career

          • Andre 16.1.1.1.1

            When the kids have political ambitions of their own it seems to generally show fairly early.

            • Puckish Rogue 16.1.1.1.1.1

              I think that working for the foundation shes laying the ground work for a political career

              Of course I could be wrong

    • Manuka AOR 16.2

      Dynasties – Bad.

      Breaking the (male) lineage mold, – good.

      Change is happening.

      • Colonial Viper 16.2.1

        But why choose such a corrupt, unethical figure as Hillary Clinton for first woman president?

        • Lanthanide 16.2.1.1

          Because the alternative that has been offered by the GOP in this election is far far worse.

        • Manuka AOR 16.2.1.2

          Because I don’t believe she is as “corrupt and unethical” as she has been painted by the Rethugs attack-and-destroy machine for the last 25 years.

          She has been under attack from many quarters, including from within her own family – that sleazebag she bloody married!

        • Manuka AOR 16.2.1.3

          There was a time when I was incredibly angry at her – when I despised what she was doing (eg when she endorsed war in Iraq). After that I largely switched off from her, for years – dismissed her as having any real worth.

          She has acknowledged her mistakes (unlike Trump) – and when I realised that, that she now sees that some of those decisions were a big mistake, I slowly began to forgive her.

          And now, seeing her strength and calmness and dignity while under intense fire, I have new respect for her.

  13. Andre 17

    A while ago I commented there were probably some Republicans I would prefer over Hillary.

    But then I sat down and had a good think about the current crop of Repugs that might be credible candidates for pres, and the only one I came up with that I might possibly prefer to Hillary was Senator Susan Collins of Maine. The rest are such hard-core social conservatives and/or climate deniers that I just couldn’t swallow them, or too old.

    Anyone got any other suggestions, preferably under 70 years old?

  14. Richard Rawshark 19

    RR-Pokes head in door, cough…cough.. smokey..

    Oi what’s the score at the moment, and are you lot all good for beer n pies?

    We got more coming, just holla if you need a refill.

    /jk

  15. Pasupial 20

    Since there’s no video with today’s post, I thought I’d post this to break up the wall of text. It’s been earworming around my mind this past week:

    If lust and hate is the candy
    If blood and love taste so sweet
    Then we give them what they want…

    • Richard Rawshark 20.1

      this video does not exist..

      • Pasupial 20.1.1

        Yeah, that’s weird – it was playing for me (though posting a link from a playlist might be the problem). This is the same song without the spoken intro:

    • weka 20.2

      It’s going to be a bloody long thread. I might put up a new one when it’s close to calling time.

  16. joe90 21

    The southern strategy.

    Wow. Just got this screengrab from a friend. Jefferson Riley, the Republican mayor of Mansfield, Georgia trying to fool Democratic voters. pic.twitter.com/g2JpxdxBUX— Joy Reid (@JoyAnnReid) November 8, 2016

  17. joe90 22

    A reminder that the NYT has open access.

    Readers will have unlimited access to NYTimes.com for 72 hours from 12:01 a.m. ET on Monday, November 7 until 11:59 p.m. ET on Wednesday, November 9.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/04/homepage/new-york-times-open-access-election-2016.html

  18. joe90 24

    I’m afraid this is just a taste of the shenanigans to come.

    The Trump campaign wants to make names of Nevada poll workers public. Judge's response: pic.twitter.com/tes99IMbbH— Deadspin (@Deadspin) November 8, 2016

    Your GOP nominee is right now on TV, on election day, claiming votes are being changed.pic.twitter.com/iNVxU64wYpHT @kylegriffin1— Peter W. Singer (@peterwsinger) November 8, 2016

    • Manuka AOR 25.1

      He’s been locked up in near isolation for years now, for doing first what he then considered right. It is understandable if he is bitter. And the US gov had the power to free him from their threat of nabbing him – they never did that. (Same with Chelsea Manning, though amazingly, she does not sound bitter.)

      • Colonial Viper 25.1.1

        She tried to take her own life while in custody earlier this year.

      • Andre 25.1.2

        I find it very ironic that the flow of leaks helps Trump and damages Hillary (whether intentional or not), but if elected Trump’s history suggests he will try to be far more secretive and vengeful towards leakers/whistleblowers than previous administrations or Clinton is likely to be.

        • Colonial Viper 25.1.2.1

          Even more vengeful than the Obama administration, the Obama adminstration which has used the espionage act against leakers more than all the other Presidents put together? Which co-ordinated with European countries to force down the President of Ecuador’s diplomatic jet?

          • Andre 25.1.2.1.1

            Look at Trump’s history. He’s released far less info than any other candidate. He uses really abusive non-disclosure agreements for employees and volunteers. FFS, at 3am he tweets nasty shit about people he thinks have slighted him. He threatens retribution against Republicans that don’t endorse him. Need I go on?

            • Colonial Viper 25.1.2.1.1.1

              I’m very confident that a Trump administration will use the espionage act against whistleblowers far less than the record breaking Obama.

              • Andre

                On what grounds do you base that opinion?

              • TheExtremist

                “I’m very confident that a Trump administration will use the espionage act against whistleblowers far less than the record breaking Obama.”

                Bullshit. Do honestly think a guy who sues anyone and anybody who says anything negative or embarrassing about him is going to let someone go who embarrasses his administration?

                Seriously?

      • Red 25.1.3

        When is he releasing Russian emails in the spirit of transparency, ooops can’t as my source is Russia

    • Pasupial 25.2

      I don’t find the statement to be that whiny myself. But then with Wikileaks it does help to read the original rather than rely on other’s commentary (though with the sheer volume that’s easier said than done).

      We had information that fit our editorial criteria which related to the Sanders and Clinton campaign (DNC Leaks) and the Clinton political campaign and Foundation (Podesta Emails). No-one disputes the public importance of these publications. It would be unconscionable for WikiLeaks to withhold such an archive from the public during an election.

      At the same time, we cannot publish what we do not have. To date, we have not received information on Donald Trump’s campaign, or Jill Stein’s campaign, or Gary Johnson’s campaign or any of the other candidates that fufills our stated editorial criteria.

      https://wikileaks.org/Assange-Statement-on-the-US-Election.html

  19. Richard Rawshark 27

    Huge queue’s looks like the US is struggling to accommodate the voters from what I read on NYT link, pics of long lines..

    wishing for that this year in gods own.

    are any results in at all, all I am seeing is Trump checking on his wifes vote, crack up..

    Pre nup, checking up on the worker kind of way..

    the tension is marvellous.

    • joe90 27.1

      Marvelous vid inside.

      My brother had a 3 hour line in Manhattan and a special visitor #Trump #ElectionDay #voteIRL #Clinton pic.twitter.com/JAH8wmAOYA— Josh (@joshmbarn) November 8, 2016

      • Richard Rawshark 27.1.1

        TY, you know the most powerful thing I saw there was the comment on Trumps limp wristed handshake, that’s the shake of, .. well not respect.

        oH the dirty poor, well those dirty poor may get him what he wants.., disgusting.

        • joe90 27.1.1.1

          Dude sums up Trump.

          Today, Im going to recount a few statements said to me by people close to Trump during my six months investigation of him 4 @newsweek.— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          1. Source: "If you asked Don, he'd call me his best friend." Me: "What would you call him?" Source: "A clinical sociopath."— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          2. Source to me: "What you don't understand about Don is that he's mentally ill."— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          3. Source: "Don believes everything he says. He can't tell what's true or false."— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          4. Source: "This 'close family' thing is a pose. He was the worst father. He was particularly abusive to Don Jr., physically and mentally"— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          5. Source: "Don almost ruined my life. We met late and he told me he did it because I didn't give him enough public credit for my success."— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          6. Source: "I've known him and his family for a long time. Trump is really a bad, bad guy."— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          7. Source: "This whole campaign is a con. There's a reason he flipped on abortion. He'll say whatever he needs to say to win."— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          8. Source: "I played in a charity golf event. Trump's team lost, but after he took the scorecard, he changed it so they won. Everybody knew"— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          9. Diffrent source: "Its ridiculous how much Donald cheats at golf. It's like he's incapable of admitting he lost. I dont play him anymore."— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          10. Source: "A lot of members of the family believe Don tricked his (then demented) dad into rewriting the will to cut his brother out."— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          11. Me: "Trump says at rallies he never settles cases, but he has a lot." Source: "Well, in his mind, he means it in a broader sense."— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          12. Source (close to Trump.): "Don makes himself out to be this business genius. If not for the family money, he'd be living on the street."— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          13. Source: "He told an elderly couple he was 'trying out' some of antiques they sold. Then he refused to return them or pay for them."…— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          14. …(continuation: theft of antique) He told them it was more valuable 4 the antiques to be seen a Mar-a-Lago then 4 him 2 pay for them."— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          15. Source: "The casinos ran well til Trump took over management. (after death of executives.) It was utter chaos. He's a horrible person."— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          16. Source: "I have never had someone lie to me right to my face more than Donald Trump. He is incapable of telling the truth."— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          Bottom line: In 6 months, I have never found a real Trump friend or anyone who isn't paid by him who has anything nice to say about him.— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) November 8, 2016

          • Colonial Viper 27.1.1.1.1

            He left out “winner.”

            Which ever way you wish to take that word to describe Trump.

            • AmaKiwi 27.1.1.1.1.1

              Hitler was a winner, too. At least in the beginning.

              The masses worshiped him because he promised to make Germany great again.

  20. joe90 28

    GOTV seems to have been successful.

    Record turnout possible in #philadelphia. City officials: could exceed 2008's 70% of registered voters #Decision2016 @NBCPhiladelphia pic.twitter.com/CtPF6D2okF— Jim Rosenfield (@jimrosenfield) November 8, 2016

    Uh, wow. Obama won Orange County, FL by 18%. They are reporting 45k MORE ballots cast than all of '12, with over 3 hours of voting left.— Tom Bonier (@tbonier) November 8, 2016

  21. Byd0nz 29

    The working class of America, the majority of who to be fair are like most working class, clueless, clueless about politics, not politically aware, but they instinctively know the system dont work for them so they need a Leader. It would have been fantastic had Bernie become the Democrat elect, then those working class folk would have gone for him, this is the pity of this whole shambles. Bernie’s not there, not even as running mate. Trump says he’ll bring back JOBS, music to working class ears. So the contradiction between the working class and Trump is explained and understandable.

    • Grim 29.1

      is this a troll?

      The sheep are to ignorant and dumb to understand that party A rather than party B know what’s best for them.

      Maybe the sheep have noticed that the leaders of both parties are getting fat as they starve, and neither party respects the sheep enough to field a viable candidate.

      That’s an insult to all sheep, a blowhard billionaire or an insider trading pedo granny abusing her position for profit.

      The parties couldn’t clean their own houses and allowed corruption to breed within their midst, now we have Hillary vs Trump.

      The majority of voters don’t support either candidate, and the pathetic media lock out any third party options from gaining the exposure required.

  22. james 30

    The only good thing about this election that I have seen is that it appears there is a huge turnout.

  23. joe90 31

    So the contradiction between the working class and Trump is explained and understandable.

    Only if you ignore black/brown people.

    When you dig into Trump’s voting bloc, you quickly learn not only that his working-class support is a myth, which ignores a huge population of people of color in the working class. But even the legendary monolith of ignorant, poor whites flocking to the Republican party doesn’t hold up. This is a pretty clear lesson that the more diverse Democratic Party is much stronger than the GOP— “better together,” as its candidate likes to say—but it’s also a warning to liberal pundits hand-wringing over the “working class.” A fair amount of the working class is already here—you just aren’t paying attention.

    https://bitchmedia.org/article/myth-trump-and-working-class

    • Colonial Viper 31.1

      I think a whole lot of liberal left wing over intellectual prognosticators will have to review some of their assumptions about Trump and the electorate.

      • McFlock 31.1.1

        as opposed to the socially conservative right wing under-intellectual prognosticators who will continue to mindlessly (and inaccurately) parrot RT/zerohedge without any apparent attempt at self-reflection.

  24. Pasupial 33

    This thing of a private company using phones to track people makes me a bit uncomfortable. But they’re doing it anyway, so it’ll be good to see how accurate they are. As of now they’re projecting 347 Clinton to 191 Trump. Clinton winning the footfall data (of those who can both afford devices with GPS, choose to bring them along, and agree to tracking by a possibly unrelated app) in eleven of the thirteen monitored swing states (all except Arizona and Georgia).

    Cuebiq has partnerships with over 150 mobile apps and analyzes offline behavior and footfall through its proprietary data methodology, which includes mobile users’ proximity signals, frequency and dwell time. Its intelligence platform analyzes a combination of GPS, Wi-Fi, and beacon signals when collecting mobile user data, and only analyzes data from users who accepted to share location with Cuebiq’s partner apps.

    For this specific study, Cuebiq will be using its mobile user data that consists of over 40 million daily active users in addition to census data.

    http://www.cbs58.com/story/33656545/cuebiq-taps-location-data-to-predict-presidential-winner-on-election-day

    http://www.cuebiq.com/election-day

    • Cinny 33.1

      In the olden days, scrutineers would match up those coming into vote with their party membership, as voters said their names to the electoral officers. Runners were sent back and forth from the polling booths to HQ, any party members whom hadn’t voted were rung and offered a ride to the booths, or rung and encouraged to go and vote. It helped give parties a rough idea of their voter turnout.

      Now days you’re tracked by your cellphone and ‘they’ can find out so much more. I’d be uncomfortable about that too. Technology dang.

  25. Andre 34

    Of the five living people in the best position to judge if someone has what it takes, not one has voted Trump.

    http://www.vox.com/2016/11/8/13569220/george-bush-didnt-vote-trump

    Even Kellyanne Conway can’t put a smiley face on that…”…that’s gotta hurt.”

  26. mauī 35

    Vigo County, Indiana results swinging to Trump so far. Vigo County has correctly predicted the last 15 presidents, or something like that.

    Also CNNs John King is the most impressive US political analyst I’ve seen.

  27. Puckish Rogue 36

    If anyone needs a bit of a laugh

    Eagle!

  28. Grim 37

    http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/states/florida/president
    only 12% counted, but…. Trump ahead at this stage.

  29. joe90 38

    heh

    A number of threads appeared on /pol/ today indicating that Trump supports either hadn’t remembered to—or didn’t know they were supposed to—register to vote in order participate in this great American democracy. There’s a delicious irony in seeing the same people who proclaimed an incompetent candidate’s ability to save the United States fail to grasp how that same country’s electoral laws work.

    Some were ejected from polling places for wearing Trump paraphernalia, an act which constitutes passive electioneering in many states. Others were unable to properly fill in their ballots for one reason or another.

    http://gizmodo.com/trumps-troll-army-is-having-a-hard-time-voting-1788712609

  30. Grim 39

    Florida 30 vote difference atm what!!!!! out of 8 million ish

  31. The Other Mike 41

    CNN has Clinton ahead 68 – 48

    http://edition.cnn.com/election/results

    • Cinny 41.1

      excellent link that CNN one thankies

      it’s all on like donkey kong by crikey

      Florida is so very close, I’d predict it going to Trump, so many many rednecks live there, heaps of them. JS

      • Pasupial 41.1.1

        The count on CNN seems ahead of the others somehow, but the layout is a bit cluttered. NYT is a bit behind, but does have a handy; “approximate votes left”, button (plus it’s free access today). Broward seems to be the main lot of results left to be returned, and at that is 473,474 Clinton to 211,618 Trump with 48% in according to CNN.

        http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/florida

        It’s got me on the edge of my seat, but will probably go to recount.

    • Grim 41.2

      to soon, check again.

    • mauī 41.3

      Its more likely the Clinton early votes. The on the day pissed off votes are counted last 👿

  32. Andre 42

    Maybe Trump stiffed his web developer, so the developer didn’t bother to fix a vulnerability?

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/08/people-just-trolled-trump-s-site.html

  33. Bill 43

    Live streaming, wide ranging and sensible election debate/commentary…

    http://www.democracynow.org/

  34. Farrar is at the US Ambassador’s party making hysterical pro-Clinton pronouncements. I’m officially on the Trump train! Serving nowt but shit sandwiches if he turns up in the buffet car!

    EDIT: specifically, he’s saying Clinton has all but won – god it’ll be great if he has to own that one!

  35. weka 45

    Election kittens! (stress relief).

  36. Ad 46

    Looks like Trump’s got Florida.

    Now we have a game.

  37. Ad 48

    Even if Trump still loses from here, which is just still theoretically possible, looks like CV was more right than wrong on the trends.

    Hankies out all you lefties, and get ready for a good blub.

    • weka 48.1

      You really are a nasty little shit sometimes Ad. I can see why you would be endorsing CV. Same MO, same projections designed to harm.

    • Colonial Viper 48.2

      Wait another hour or two I reckon. I’m not calling anything yet, but Trump is climbing that narrow steep road successfully so far.

      • Pasupial 48.2.1

        I haven’t seen it get up to your fabled 290 yet CV, but the electoral swingometer on the NYT is certainly edging over that way. I think it’s a bit early to call Michigan yet, but is certainly up for grabs.

        I for one welcome our new orange overlord:

      • Ovid 48.2.2

        I think you have your wish, CV. The next four years will be interesting.

        • Colonial Viper 48.2.2.1

          I hope it works out. The world has been in a more dangerous place this year. I would like to see the confidence that the American people have put in Donald Trump to be repaid to them in terms of a better life, a better future, fewer foreign wars and more jobs.

      • b waghorn 48.2.3

        A guy on tv this am (cant recall) said that trump would lead early in the day but clinton would over run him when the big states like california s votes came in later,

        • Ovid 48.2.3.1

          At the moment that’s not enough. If either Michigan or Wisconsin are called for Trump, he wins.

        • Pasupial 48.2.3.2

          Yeah, but the US has an unusual form of democracy where it is not the people who select the president, but the electoral college. Some of the EC have already said they won’t support Clinton even if it does mean a $1000 fine (which really should be updated as that’s not much of a deterrent). Clinton is still set to win the popular vote according to the NYT, but that’s not much consolation.

          Still, best wait for the count to be completed rather than get ahead of ourselves too much (which was the point of the Simpsons clip I posted earlier). And if Trump does win, then at least we’ll get to see how the Democrats go in fulfilling their promise of accepting the election result.

    • Bill 48.3

      I think I’m currently watching a fair number of wide eyed liberals kind of flapping hopelessly around the possibility that the ‘just arrived’ corpse of liberalism has been flung at their feet .

      And it’s like they have no idea about the whys and wherefores of it all. And I wonder…

      Will they now, finally, get their well worn arses down off the fence or shift themselves away from the road’s white lines? Will they abandon the stupid myth of inevitable progress that they’ve formerly clung to – that has seen them unwittingly and always preserve the status quo before a quasi-religious elevation of mere incrementalism and reform above all else?

      Will they, essentially, wake the fuck up? I dunno.

      Answers on a postcard or on the back of a stamped addressed envelope…

  38. Puckish Rogue 49

    If anyone needs a quick guide to how the seats went in 2012:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-08/us-election-2012/8004148

  39. Lanthanide 50

    It looks like Trump is going to win. NYT is projecting him at 66% chance to win, thanks to Michigan going to Republicans.

    http://www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president

  40. Richard Rawshark 51

    al jaz has coverage now.. guys, and trumps looking good, stock markets have lent Trumps way now too… Herald front page.

    my absolutely out of thin air gut feeling predictions looking good for a spot on prize…

    to refresh it was Trump by a big margin, that was not predicted. but not landslide realms if I remember rightly.

    Still west coast for 80 to Hillary to come if it’s goes to norm.

  41. james 52

    Watching the markets – ouch !

    • Richard Rawshark 52.1

      It’s ok James, if you lose it all, I got a room to rent at market rates for ya. 🙂

      • james 52.1.1

        Where I have my assest is my business. But if I ever get so broke that I have to move to Tokoroa – Ill give you a call.

  42. Roflcopter 53

    Bizarre viewing.

    This is not “We love Trump” voting from the right.

    This is “We hate Hillary” and “You fucked over Sanders” voting in action/inaction from the left.

    • Richard Rawshark 53.1

      Thats what my gut told me from the very beginning..

      this is an anti neolib economics vote.

      it’s being talked about for the last 20 years, and they found someone who would say fuck you to the lot of em..

      just the feelings I got.

    • Cinny 53.2

      sure is, and Agent Orange is going to take it out. Wonder how many votes for Stein?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 53.3

      Message received: a win for Trump would be all the Left’s fault.

      No personal responsibility from the right whatsoever, whatever.

  43. Richard Rawshark 54

    1 st result on al J, swing state went new mexico worth 5 obviously went Clinton.

  44. Ray 55

    Trump has it.
    Not the end of the World but as sure as H*** not good.
    It is useful to remember that in the USA even the lefty Democrats are well to the right of the Nats.

    • Richard Rawshark 55.1

      and what a Donald Trump is we will only really know if he wins and AFTER the election sadly, when the truth will be revealed.

      I’ve just got to see how he’s going to make mexico build a wall. If he can do that, i’ll run naked down the main street of tokoroa yelling i’m a bird I can fly.

  45. TheExtremist 56

    holy. shit.

    • b waghorn 56.1

      interesting times, all those world leaders that have been bad mouthing trump my be regretting it about now.

      • Richard Rawshark 56.1.1

        ya think…

        there will be a lot of sweaty arses today I’m sure.

        The Mexican PM will be extremely worried i’d say.

        Russians not so much.

        Teleban they will be overjoyed

        not so much the Syrian rebels fighting for freedom..

        if he gets in the next few years are going to be the most interesting ones of all our lives so far, gut feeling, and my gut feelings are usually pretty close.

  46. McFlock 57

    fivethirtyeight was giving trump 55%, now it’s 48% and Clinton on 50%.

    • b waghorn 57.1

      A guy on tv this am (cant recall) said that trump would lead early in the day but clinton would over run him when the big states like california s votes came in later,

      i put this up thread but thought i might as well chuck it here too

      • Roflcopter 57.1.1

        You can get to 270 without winning the popular vote.

        • Pasupial 57.1.1.1

          Yeah, that is a much more succinct way of putting it Roflcopter.

          fivethirtyeight was giving trump 48%, now it’s 49% and Clinton on 49%.

      • McFlock 57.1.2

        florida result down to c100k votes out of 8 million – again. I wonder if it’ll be a y2k repeat if Clinton loses? Freaking knife edge.

        • Pasupial 57.1.2.1

          Seeing as bwaghorn is repeating from upthread, I guess I will too: “If Trump does win, then at least we’ll get to see how the Democrats go in fulfilling their promise of accepting the election result”.

          fivethirtyeight was giving trump 49%, now it’s 58% and Clinton on 40%.

    • Lanthanide 57.2

      538’s election model is crap and a waste of time. It only takes into account states that have been called, and since all the states are so close, not many have been called and it’s significantly understating Trump’s chances.

      Look at the NYT one I’ve linked to up above, it’s been showing Trump ahead since 3:30 this afternoon.

  47. Daveosaurus 58

    It looks like the kiddie fiddler is getting in. I’d expect there to be four years of the rest of the world pointing at Yankestan and laughing – but that’s assuming Yankestan even lasts that long as a viable country.

  48. Ad 59

    There’s still a good possibility of a fully united Republican government:

    – Republican President

    – Republican Senate

    – Republican Congress

    Now that would be a thing to behold.
    From a distance.

  49. Richard Rawshark 60

    Trump landslides to victory in Florida..wow

    • red-blooded 60.1

      1.5% is hardly a landslide, RR!

      It’s certainly looking ugly, but still too early to call.

      Trump’s an arsehole. If they elect an arsehole, he’ll shit on them (and us).

      • Richard Rawshark 60.1.1

        true mate not argueinmg that, if he wins i’ll panic.

        However TV one way behind

        197 blue 216 red atm on AL J, 54 he needs!

      • Richard Rawshark 60.1.2

        also I saw a pic of the florida counties, it was almost all red.. with only a few blues?

        strange it’s so close, as looking at all the red for florida I thought he won nearly all of it..

        The states must have a similar system and the national vote with each county worth different ammounts..

        First in depth look at us election so I really don’t know a lot.. but PANIC.

        • McFlock 60.1.2.1

          gerrymandering. They draw the electoral boundaries so that the folks in charge get a few counties by a closer margin, rather than a landslide in one county and narrow losses in all the others. It’s fucked up.

    • james 60.2

      landslide – yeah right. – you doing maths again ???

      • Richard Rawshark 60.2.1

        ok NOT my strong point james, and I promise to never quote math again.

        I used to go to the toilet and never come back for Maths class, I liked reading not counting.

        dang I’ve been exposed for mathematically illiterate, oHHH the shame. 🙂

  50. Richard Rawshark 61

    Give one thing so far to Trump, he told his voters all along don’t trust the polls his internal polling was telling him they were winning huge.

    Andrew take note.

    • Chuck 61.1

      Andrew already does Richard.

      That is why he released his own internal poll to counter the public ones.

      • Leftie 61.1.1

        Chuck. What makes you think UMR is different from David Farrar’s Curia or any other pollster for that matter?

        • Chuck 61.1.1.1

          No one polling company is the same as the other for starters.

          But the main reason is there are so many variables that can be introduced into poll methodology. Like for example how a question is framed, or the sample size can have a material effect on the result.

          Public polls have the methodology behind the poll released. To date Labour has not released the methodology behind their private poll, commissioned with UMR.

          BTW they (Labour) don’t have to release it since its private…but once they start using it in a public way it becomes a little tricky to say there poll is more reliable than another. As no one can compare apples with apples.

          • Leftie 61.1.1.1.1

            Rubbish. So in other words you don’t have a clue Chuck. You know Curia does National’s polling don’t you? Are you that ignorant?

  51. Cinny 62

    Financial markets are responding.. Mexican Peso down 12%, a record low against the green back

    Meanwhile north of the border…
    Trump gets major win in Ohio, while Canada’s immigration site appears to have crashed

    • Richard Rawshark 62.1

      NZ dollar up, then going down.. hopefully we are not vulnerable..

      Oh JAMES, am I close, you know it better than me obviously , I just looked at the ANZ graph for today.

  52. Paul 63

    When are the corporate media going to stop believing their own propaganda and their skewed polls?

    1. The near thing with Scottish independence.
    2. Brexit.
    3. Trump.

    People are no longer listening to the msm.

    • Richard Rawshark 63.1

      oh the ears hear it, but so many lies, they lost us believing it anymore.

      I just look at what they print now and have to do 3 hours to verify it, or not..

      • Garibaldi 63.1.1

        Sorry CV I just deleted my comment because there is still a miniscule chance Hillary may win. I will definitely come out stronger if Trump wins.

    • Colonial Viper 63.2

      No, I’m not expecting anything like that Garibaldi, but you are most kind.

      I have learnt a lot about how political tribalism can completely skew some peoples perspective of reality and decency however.

  53. dv 64

    Breaking news Trump is challenging Florida as being rigged.

  54. Richard Rawshark 65

    blue 209- red 216..

  55. Manuka AOR 66

    Hey Andre, you okay out there?

    Life goes on, mate.

    Also Joe90 and marty of course, and anyone else who was caught up in this from Hillary’s side (includes fisi and PR.. – we may never agree on anything else again, but this is different..)

    • Andre 66.1

      Yeah, still here, not suicidal yet. Ran an extension into the bathroom and spent the day parked up on the throne with the laptop. Easier than dealing with the laundry.

      As of 5:48, it looks like Hillary needs Michigan and Wisconsin to tip back her way. Possible since there’s a lot of urban votes still to be counted, but not likely. Here’s hoping.

      • Manuka AOR 66.1.1

        I think it’s done. We have to live with it. (And we can!)

        The Canada Immigration site has just crashed, apparently.

        PS – maybe you need to change your diet (heh)

        • Andre 66.1.1.1

          Me and Montezuma’s Revenge have a lot of history going back a long way. I have more than a nodding acquaintance with his Taiwanese cousin. I’ve partied with Delhi Belly a few times. I’ve hung out with their african cousins. Trust me, my bowel issues today were not dietary related.

          Could be worse, I suppose. We could be be moaning about president-elect Cruz or Rubio or Kasich or Bush or Huckabee or…. right now.

  56. the post truth politics of hate have won – I feel for all my leftie liberal progressive friends in the states – a long dark night is coming – and for the people of colour throughout that country I can only send my best wishes of good luck for the future

  57. Richard Rawshark 68

    it’s 232R to 209B now for Trump

  58. McFlock 69

    Right. Time to start digging a bunker.
    Fuck.

    Although quite a few close states, so some of it might come to the courts.

    • Colonial Viper 69.1

      Nah you’re right. The prospects of a military confrontation with China and/or Russia just dropped significantly.

      • McFlock 69.1.1

        The prospects of a contained military confrontation with China and/or Russia just dropped significantly.

        fify

      • Richard Rawshark 69.1.2

        releaved but motive wise, China and Russia expect him to back off challenging their interests, SC seas, and Syria etc, mthat brings us a completely new set of issues.

        The unchecked agenda’s of those nations.

        we got new stuff to deal with folks, interesting times.

      • AmaKiwi 69.1.3

        “The prospects of a military confrontation with China and/or Russia just dropped significantly.”

        You have NO basis for saying that.

        You and I have no way of predicting ANYTHING Trump will do or not do because Trump is a compulsive liar. He has no qualms about reversing his stance at the drop of a hat.

        Hitler told the voters his experience of World War One was so dreadful the German people need never fear he would ever lead them into a war.

        • Colonial Viper 69.1.3.1

          Dead wrong.

          My basis for saying so is really very simple.

          Trump is going to listen to serious operators like former DIA head Gen Michael Flynn, and not Clinton’s cohort of warmongering neocons like Samantha Power, Susan Rice and Victoria Nuland.

  59. AsleepWhileWalking 70

    NYTimes calls it with a 95% certainty:
    Congratulations President Trump!

    http://www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president

  60. Richard Rawshark 71

    238 red 209 blue..to the Trump… bunker, where did I leave my bunker, though it was if Hillary won Putin threaten nuclear war.. more a time to hide money in matresses for a global financial meltdown bunker.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 71.1

      Yeah.. as if the 20 trillion dollar debt prior to his election isn’t a factor.

  61. Richard Rawshark 72

    Who’s going to be the first to blame the FBI I wonder..

  62. Richard Rawshark 73

    Donald ego is so huge, this really is going to make him ..can he get worse?

  63. adam 74

    You vote for what you deserve

    • Lanthanide 74.1

      Yeah, but the rest of us don’t deserve Trump.

      • Richard Rawshark 74.1.1

        we deserve him telling John EXACTLY where he can shove his TPP 🙂

        happy day’s oh happy days

      • adam 74.1.2

        Don’t we, have we not sat on our hands with cheap consumer goods, whilst the neo-liberal experiment wreaked the world?

        We so deserve Trump and his craziness for that and all the other things people were lulled into by cheap propaganda and a rampant desire for a quick fix.

        • Richard Rawshark 74.1.2.1

          might be a good time to invest in the Canadian dollar.

          • BM 74.1.2.1.1

            Swiss

            • Richard Rawshark 74.1.2.1.1.1

              mmm good point.

              or split it 70s / 30c i’m sure the Canadian dollars on an upswing now.

              But swiss yeah, always in crisis, and gold

              • Henry Filth

                I have an eye for a bargain, and I’m thinking that the US dollar is starting to look quite cheap.

                Certainly a bit late to be thinking of getting out of USD now

          • weka 74.1.2.1.2

            Nice neoliberal response to adam’s point there RR 😉

        • weka 74.1.2.2


          Don’t we, have we not sat on our hands with cheap consumer goods, whilst the neo-liberal experiment wreaked the world?

          We so deserve Trump and his craziness for that and all the other things people were lulled into by cheap propaganda and a rampant desire for a quick fix.

          I tend to agree adam, and I’m already moving into philosophical mode. If we can’t have some breathing space for change, maybe it’s time to fight with an obvious enemy. Still depressing as fuck though, and I can’t but help think about this time next year (and this time 2 years ago).

          • adam 74.1.2.2.1

            Well we got evil, we were always going to get evil what ever way you looked at it. In a way, I’m glad people did not go for the lesser evil.

            Now we have the alt-right to deal with. Personally, they worry me way more than trump, if they raise their ugly head here I say listen to Linton and grow a spine.

  64. Richard Rawshark 75

    he’s at 244 now, no change for hills at 209

  65. Richard Rawshark 76

    I really wanted Trump to win as a significant middle finger to the man.

    Now i’m getting what I thought i’d not get, scared.

    • One Two 76.1

      Don’t lose yourself to fear, that serves no purpose and provides yet more energy for the system to feed on

      Taking a side has created the fear you talk of

      The result is irrelevant and so is the POTUS, because the ‘house always wins’

      Long live, long life (no fear)

  66. Richard Rawshark 77

    Mum said the immigration web site for Canada crashed…

  67. Richard Rawshark 78

    your running score is

    244-215, hills just clawed a few back..

  68. Richard Rawshark 79

    If I was Hill’s I wouldn’t want to win now, as I am under the belief repugs hold everything, lame duck with wings clipped to boot.

  69. RTM 80

    If Trump is true to his campaign rhetoric, then he will tear up the foreign policy playbook and abandon treaties like Anzus. NZ’s political and security establishments could face a crisis. Time for the left to formulate a new foreign policy and a new approach to the Pacific: http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/trump-pacific-and-unintended.html

  70. Adrian 81

    NEWSFLASH…….Vladimir Putin wins Presidency of United States.
    Not news just in….majority of Americans as stupid as dogshit.

    • Colonial Viper 81.1

      I had already guessed your contempt for democracy.

      As Krauthammer says – this is in fact an ideological revolution for the Republican Party.

      Trump has effectively initiated a total renewal of the Republican Party.

      The Democrats are in disarray.

  71. Colonial Viper 82

    Just opening a beer, getting ready for the last results. Me and my political team are feeling pretty good about the day and have some partying planned for tonight. Looks like Republicans keep the Senate too.

    The Democrats should have stuck with Sanders. He would have demolished Trump.

    • Peter Swift 82.1

      “political team” lol

    • Richard Rawshark 82.2

      Enjoy the Beers CV.

      I shall enjoy, myself, that I had the feelings of people right, and the polls were wrong and due to MSM. It confirms to me Andrew is right to internally poll here and Farraar and RM are full of it.

      I now hold a hope in NZ that, that same energy and sentiment is as true as I knew, and it wasn’t just me who had those feelings.

      Stuff neo lib, stuff the big money sucking corps., .can we have a real world?, I hope Trump really can do all he said.

      my political team agree’s. well they will, when they finish digging under the back fence. DAMNIT

      • Colonial Viper 82.2.1

        My thanks for your generous comments and character Richard Rawshark.

        • Matt D 82.2.1.1

          So, after being treated like shite for supporting Trump, including being banned and being called a right winger as a insult, are you finally going to give the Standardistas here, including TRP and OAB and Steph, the middle finger, and leave the site?

    • Garibaldi 82.3

      Couldn’ t agree more CV. When the Clinton dynasty shat all over Sanders they lost . T he good news is this should be the end of the bloody Clintons.
      Full marks to you CV throughout the whole campaign. You were ridiculed and derided from the start and you took it all well ( I wouldn’t have). I hope your detractors will eat humble pie and apologize to you…. especially oab and marty mars.
      On a brighter note I hope the next election in NZ will also reject the establishment and say NO to the bullshit going down with this government.
      My major concern is that the Republicans have control of everything now, but that’s what you get when you are dickheads like the Clintons. Good riddance to them…. I hope they both end up in jail. They betrayed the Left.

      • Lanthanide 82.3.1

        He was right about Trump winning, but he still believes that Trump is going to be some sort of messiah for America and that his policies are sensible and will help the country, rather than hurt it.

        • McFlock 82.3.1.1

          really, it comes down to c150k votes out of 9million in florida.

          CV won a game of two-up. The most immediate problem with this is that he’ll be insufferable because he thinks he genuinely predicted it 🙂

      • One Anonymous Bloke 82.3.2

        My opinion of CV was formed years ago: shilling for fascists will earn contempt every time.

    • mauī 82.4

      Well done CV. You took on the political establishment on this site too and won. Some of the abuse you have got was warranted, much of it wasn’t in my opinion. A lot of people from the left refused to look at reality and gave their establishment candidate a free ride and resorted to denigration which I found disgraceful at times. In many ways I have found you the most honest commenter during this whole campaign.

    • gsays 82.5

      hi cv, i bet those brews are damn tasty and satisfying.

      well done with your early and consistent call.

  72. Manuka AOR 83

    Third Party votes would have made a difference in several main states, including Florida, Penns, Arizona and Wisconsin (but not Ohio where they piled on for Trump) http://www.bbc.com/news/election/us2016/results

  73. Colonial Viper 84

    Hannity: this is a modern day political miracle where one person has gone up against the entire political and globalist establishment, and won.

    • BM 84.1

      Could Clinton win from here or is it all over?

      • Cinny 84.1.1

        only if she takes out all the other states

        you can check progress via this link…
        http://edition.cnn.com/election/results

      • Andre 84.1.2

        She needs Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin to tip back her way with very few votes left to be counted. She’s about 1.3million popular votes behind, although there’s still enough votes to be counted on the west coast she might still win the popular vote (not that it would matter).

    • Richard Rawshark 84.2

      I was going to say, he’d be sweating but he was the one frothing over Hillary wasn’t he?

      Gawd, fox will be crowing now, Hillary getting her toothbrush ready…lol

    • AmaKiwi 84.3

      CV

      It is not a “political miracle.” It happens when a society becomes furiously angry, full of rage and negativity. It is happening in much of the world.

      While the anger brings the possibility of major positive political changes, the fury can be unleashed in devastating wars and totalitarianism. Around the Mediterranean the democratic euphoria of the “political miracle” of the Arab Spring. That dream has become a nightmare for tens of millions.

      Trump did not make some sort of 2nd American revolution. He caught the scent in the wind and rode it to power. What good or evil will come of it I cannot foresee. No one can. By definition, politicians conceal their true intentions.

  74. Muttonbird 85

    Yesterday Key was endorsing Clinton by way of attacking Trump.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11743901

    Yet another thing he has touched recently which has turned to shit.

  75. Cinny 86

    I’m calling it for Agent Orange, political history in the making.

  76. Richard Rawshark 87

    be some results coming in shortly that are EXTREMELY close, like 96 votes in Ohio, expecting Hillary to gain on Trump.

    Still 215-244 never over till they cross the line..

    hillaries going to claw a few fours back here

  77. Richard Rawshark 88

    what Hillary needs is some help from Mike and the Mechanics

  78. Well, well, well. I’ve had a busy day at work and have come home to this.

    While I still hope Clinton can pull off a Hail Mary at the death, it’s not looking good for America. If Trump does make it, I think a lot of blue collar workers who lose their jobs in the next few years will come to regret their choice today.

    A similar tide of public resentment and establishment interference saw Ronald Reagan beat Jimmy Carter. The result was the birth of neo liberalism and the concurrent decimation of the US manufacturing base. There has never been a more orthodox neo liberal candidate that Trump and if he gets in, it’ll be a triumph for the 1%.

    On the upside, the FBI’s Director Comey may be one of the lucky few to have any job security. He’s certainly saved the Republicans in the senate.

    Worse is to come if Trump gets to appoint the next few supreme court judges. That could have a negative effect that lasts well beyond the Trump administration. Shame that.

    • Richard Rawshark 89.1

      Figures, of all the us intelligence services, the FBI probably, were the only dept that knew what and who would win.., they are the FBI internals, that’s them.

      as for your doom and gloom TRP, Donald ain’t no Raegan. As for the working man, promising to slap a 35% tariff on any manufacturing that leaves to Mexico for cheap labour like what was left of their auto industry was in the middle of doing.. fucking awesome I think.

      The only question is, what will he really do.
      .

      • That 35% tariff won’t happen and even if it did, it would change nothing. Businesses will simply pull out of the American market until normality resumed. I also suspect it may be legally challenged as it would advantage companies already outside the US.

        Anyhoo, I’m off to the pub. Open Mike night, I’m thinking of covering this one from the Clash:

    • Lanthanide 89.2

      I’ve always thought the supreme court was the real jewel to be won in this election – I expect that 2020 will go back to the Democrats after Trump royally screws everything up (or is impeached, putting Pence in charge).

      But Trump could also do a lot to set back our efforts against climate change; under Obama, Nasa’s budget has been redirected away from space exploration (and plans to land on the moon) and towards climate research instead.

      He could pull out of the Paris agreement.

      I guess there’s a silver lining for NZ though – TPP is pretty much dead now.

      • Cinny 89.2.1

        Yesah the death of the TPPA that would be a silver lining.

        • AmaKiwi 89.2.1.1

          “the death of TPPA”

          I wouldn’t bet on it. Trump’s version of Making America Great means screwing everyone else. Trump could initiate even worse terms. And they might not even be negotiated.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 89.2.2

        Putting it mildly. That’s before the people mask slips and the Republican legislative agenda gets going.

    • Cinny 89.3

      With Republicans controlling the senate he could do pretty much what he wants.

      Have been in mourning for the States since Hills did the superpack dirty to Bernie.

      Am in awe of the whole event

    • Macro 89.4

      I think a lot of blue collar workers who lose their jobs in the next few years will come to regret their choice today.
      It’s already started:
      US Futures hit rock bottom
      stock markets falling around the Globe

      • Richard Rawshark 89.4.1

        Macro, they are white collar..

        • Macro 89.4.1.1

          If you don’t think that has an effect on workers….
          Think again.

          • David C 89.4.1.1.1

            its the workers that voted Trump in.

            538 had turnout in the up to $50K demographic up 300% for Trump

            • Macro 89.4.1.1.1.1

              I’m well aware of that – and I’m also well aware that they will live to regret it.
              The fall of the financial markets and the stock markets world wide could well be the forerunner of a serious recession – if not depression. Trump is a neophyte when it comes to economic management, and his policies are not going to boost the US economy in anyway (even if he thinks so). The down turn in the uS economy will be disastrous world wide. The end result will be not just 70% who can’t raise $1000 – more like 80 – 90%

              • Colonial Viper

                You need to relax mate, US stock market indices ended up near all time record highs today.

                The fact of the matter is, if Obama had done a better job with the economy and with full time job creation, Trump would never have had a platform to run on.

      • Nic the NZer 89.4.2

        Some kind of stock market collapse was bound to happen once the polls were found to be quite wrong. People had positions based on expectations of Hillary winning office, they were wrong she lost, but if those positions are liquidated quickly then this mistake may prove less costly. So some turmoil ensures.

        People were predicting the same kind of collapse on the back of BREXIT, but that turmoil subsided soon after the exit vote with not noticeable long term implications.

    • Venezia 89.5

      I heard the interviews with Trump voters who said they voted for him ” because he’s going to bring back jobs, like the coal… and the factories…..and he’s going to fix the health care system so when we’re sick we can see a doctor of our choice…” So he’s promised the earth on the campaign trail. Much of this will probably never happen. Sad.

  79. Richard Rawshark 90

    Gawd AL Jaz ramping up the fear, expert on to discus Trumps foreign policy.. lmao, liken he’d even know.

    still 215-244, no change for a while now..

  80. Richard Rawshark 91

    247-215, have to switch results feed now, Mums got blardy cooking on.

  81. GregJ 92

    AP is just calling PA for Trump, as is Politico – if that’s the case “game over”. The “Rust Belt” strategy has worked and in spectacular fashion. CNN analysts saying 29% of Lationos voted Trump more than Romney got, 37% of Youth voting for Trump.

    CNN, NYT, France 24 all talking that Trump will almost certainly win.

    • Garibaldi 92.1

      I say congratulations to the American people for rejecting the Zionist plan of world domination and wanting out of the way things are run by the “One World” bastards in power now. All the ordinary people want is their country back…. just like us. Be very worried John Key…. your Wall St mob have just lost.

  82. Richard Rawshark 93

    80k between them in PA and it’s worth 20, I figure she need that one badly atm.

    1.3% behind with 97% counted, tall order..

    • Cinny 93.1

      She’s gonna miss that vote and it’s a democratic state.

      “John Podesta, Clinton’s campaign chair, just left the Peninsula hotel. Asked if HRC was headed over, he said, “No. I’m headed over.”

  83. Richard Rawshark 94

    Flicked over to the Herald, woe is me the worlds ending..but, down the page.. a little

    Old Kerry just slipped into the country, i’d forgotten all about that visit,, hmmmm

  84. Richard Rawshark 96

    Clintons not speaking tonight, seriously , I would not at all be surprised if contingency plans were set up and she’s about to leave the country. But that could be over imagination.

    Personally i’d have been worried about trumps threats to her.. He wasn’t joking.

  85. Richard Rawshark 97

    LOL polls

    “Looks like the polls underestimated Clinton’s vote in states in the West – like Colorado and Nevada – and underestimated support for Trump pretty much everywhere else that matters”

    “Some of the polling misses were absolutely massive. Trump out-performed his polls by almost 8 points in Wisconsin and 5 points in Michigan. Enough to flip both those states for Trump”

  86. Doogs 98

    Well, America, you’ve got what you want and what you deserve. You have elected a buffoon, a misogynist and a tyrant. He will have the senate and congress behind him. He will not be a president of any consequence whatsoever. He does not understand foreign affairs. He has a one track mind. He will sit in the White House and play at being president, and I would not be surprised if he instigated a reality show around what he does day to day.

    This is a complete and absolute travesty. People have voted with their stomachs their wallets and their genitals – minds and intelligences have nothing to do with it. The US is now at the beginning of the end of their leadership of the free world, whatever that is! This is democracy in its worst guise, and Trump has played the crowds like a piano. What he says, what he propounds, what he bombasts about is NOT what he will do. He will never stand up for the little man upon whose coat-tails he has surfed to power.

    I shall watch America now as I watch Entertainment TV, for some lightweight soporific brain dead nothingness. 250 million people hoodwinked by a boorish fuckwit

  87. RRM 99

    This election result proves the pollsters’ “shy tory” principle…

    …and also shows that ten years of wall-to-wall virtue signalling, bullying and shaming on social media does NOT convince people to vote – or think – the way you lefties tell them they should.

    There’s probably a lesson in that for the NZ Labour Party AND their fans on here… IF they’re big enough to learn it??

    • Muttonbird 99.1

      No. This is an anti-establishment vote. NZ National Party should be worried. The winds of change are in the air all over the world now.

      • David C 99.1.1

        All the anti establishment voting has been swinging Right tho…. its not National that should be shitting itself!

        • Peter Swift 99.1.1.1

          Yep, the uneducated and/or traditional working classes get their basal instincts seduced by those who should be their natural enemy and willingly gift themselves under the misapprehension they are fucking over the establishment.

    • Richard Rawshark 99.2

      Are you saying trying to win an election using sites like these with a .., conflict orientated format is detrimental to our cause? This format promotes a bullying environment where we try to force our opinions on others by bullying, and on other social media.?

      Not sure if that’s a dig at a recent event? Which I would hesitantly say is an exception to the norm and overlooked by many who just are not seeing the depth of despair much like in the states of the people at the bottom suffering.

      If you mean our methods online, there are other sites, and this is, a site that clearly states what’s happening here, much like we put up with Mike Hoskings, if you don’t like him you change the channel.

      as for resent attacks on the net by phil and labour members.. some people stuffed up, some people over reacted, politics and travesties of fairness when so much is at stake naturally makes some people react rashly.. that’s life, the worlds not perfect and I bet there are times the press have done a get back as well, so the holier than god act , really is a little rich.

    • inspider 99.3

      We had Cunliffe

      The US has Clinton

  88. Richard Rawshark 100

    well 538 is getting the heat right now, from the population who voted democrat..

    his polling was WAY out, apparently his was the closest..

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwzFCx_UkAAICM1.jpg:large

  89. fender 101

    He very confidently said it was going to be rigged 😈

  90. Morrissey 102

    The crap just never stops on NewstalkZB and Fox News;
    Now that Trump’s won, they’ll be more obnoxious than ever.

    NewstalkZB, Wednesday 9 November 2016
    Andrew Dickens, Kerre McIvor (née ohoWmad), Larry “Lackwit” Williams

    I was driving through the North Shore this afternoon, channel surfing as is my wont. Unhappily, I made the mistake of straying on to New Zealand’s worst radio station. NewstalkZB is where Paul Holmes embarked on his snarling racist tirade in 2003, it’s where Leighton Smith spends three and a half hours, Monday to Friday, railing against “IDIOTS!” and “NUMBSKULLS!”, i.e., scientists, liberals, academics, and working people. It’s the station where in 2008, program host after program host, round the clock for several weeks, ran a campaign of character denigration and vilification of the woman whose spine was broken after a brutal, sustained kicking by their colleague Tony Veitch. It’s where Mike “Contra” Hosking every weekday morning smugly delivers what leading academic Bronwyn Hayward describes as “a mixture of both inaccuracy and racism […] deeply disturbing and unbecoming of a public broadcaster.” [1]

    This afternoon, as the trend to the evil clown Donald Trump became clear, it was an atmosphere akin to carnival at NewstalkZB….

    ANDREW DICKENS: It looks like Florida has gone to Trump! Here’s CNN again.

    WOLF BLITZER (CNN): With ninety-one per cent of the votes counted—it’s IMPRESSIVE how quickly this state of ten million voters gets its count in so fast!—it’s almost certainly a Trump win!

    KERRE McIVOR (née ohoWmad): Wow.

    ANDREW DICKENS: Now here’s Fox News. You’ll be happy to know I’ve also been watching Fox!

    LARRY “LACKWIT” WILLIAMS: Good to see some balanced reporting!

    KERRE McIVOR: [grimly] Heh, heh, heh, heh!

    ANDREW DICKENS: Ho, ho, ho, ho! Fox is calling Alabama for Trump!

    KERRE McIVOR: Ha ha! All right, the time is—

    ANDREW DICKENS: What time is it?

    KERRE McIVOR: Ha ha ha! Twenty-one to three!

    ANDREW DICKENS: Ha ha ha ha!

    …..Commercial break…..

    YOUNG FEMALE CALLER: I have made a point of avoiding all this election talk. I believe that the winner has already been decided, and that the whole election process is just a charade.

    KERRE McIVOR: Oh, oka-a-a-a-ay-y-y-y.

    YOUNG FEMALE CALLER: I believe it is Hillary Clinton that has been selected, and that this will be an evil period like the world has never seen before.

    KERRE McIVOR: What a DARK world you live in! [She cuts her off.] Oh, she’s gone!

    ANDREW DICKENS: [sardonically] Well, it’s an opinion.

    KERRE McIVOR: [snorting] They’re not ALL valid!

    ANDREW DICKENS: I know that.

    ….ad nauseam…

    Later, I watched a brief snatch of NewstalkZB’s American equivalent: Rupert Murdoch’s mad, bad, dangerous Fox News. Four men in suits sat round a table, trying to look serious. Chris Wallace was speaking, while the others nodded their heads in solemn agreement….

    CHRIS WALLACE: …the outright BIAS and LACK OF OBJECTIVITY of the other channels when it came to Donald Trump….

    …continues raving with not the slightest hint of irony….

    [1] http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/201805459/polarising-presenter-sparks-a-backlash

    • Doogs 102.1

      This is a brilliant slap to the RWNJs who populate the media today. They are paid-up no-counts who spout anything complimentary to the neo-liberalist elite in order to keep their jobs. They are useless cowards, and we currently have no real balance in the MSM. A large number of John Campbell clones would be great. He is incisive, unfailingly polite and puts the screws on people who spout the party line.

  91. GregJ 103

    CNN just said Clinton has called Trump and conceded.

    • ianmac 103.1

      No. Clinton has not conceded and will be making no comment tonight. (Remember the fuss when Trump said he would wait and see before he would concede?)

  92. JC 104

    A 9/11 moment! HC calls Donald!

  93. North 105

    Congratulations CV. My in-prison-in-’51 grandfather is turning in his grave I know. Not about Trump but about his grandson congratulating a scab who still purports to wear the badge of the essential, impeccable, supreme leftie on TS.

    • gsays 105.1

      scab is a bit on the nose, ain’t it north?

    • Garibaldi 105.2

      That’s bullshit North. The Clintons weren’t Lefties…. just look at the shenanigans of the Clinton Foundation. Nothing but lying deceitful bastards working against our interests. The result tonight will indeed change the world , and as a strong leftie I think I it will be all the better for dumping the Clintons. And don’t blame CV… it’s not his fault, and he is not a scab just because he is good at pointing out the weaknesses of Labour. I’ve always seen him as a left winger but I can’t speak for him. I too don’t consider Labour to be Left enough.

    • Richard Rawshark 106.1

      Micheal Moore was one of the predictors I took dead serious. actually probably the only one, truth told. he’s never far from the truth.

      • Colonial Viper 106.1.1

        That and the fact the S&P500 was below the July 31 figure at Oct 31.

        That was highly predictive in itself.

  94. Muttonbird 108

    It’s official. Do not get John Key to endorse you. It’s the kiss of death.

  95. BM 109

    Pretty much guarantees a 4th/5th term for National.
    Not a great time to be a left winger, the mood of the people seems to be particularly right.

    • Muttonbird 109.1

      Pretty much guarantees, eh? Which is it – pretty much, or guaranteed?

    • Garibaldi 109.2

      Crap BM. The American people want their country back and they voted. We want our country back too. There’s no joy for Key and his bunch of crooks in this result.

  96. mike 110

    Fear has won over reason.
    Now Clinton will be put on trial and imprisoned.
    Like the Reichstag fire, something that can be blamed on Democrats will be manufactured, people will be tried and executed, and there will be no more elections. Fasten your seat belt and look after number one, we’re back in a Fascist world.
    As in Germany, the working class millions have gone to the other side.
    Hell is upon us.

    • Colonial Viper 110.1

      What the hell has happened to the left wing of this nation? Get a grip, the working class has won against the monied establishment, Republican and Democrat. This is a massive success for ordinary Americans against the rigged status quo.

    • inspider 110.2

      THis election is a PhD goldmine.

      What does this say about identity based politics and the left?

      Where were all the modern women supporting their candidate Clinton? Where were the blacks, the latinos, the gays etc?

      Clinton outspent Trump by 10s of millions – so much for the power of the dollar in politics.

      Maybe the lessons from a more conservative US aren’t translatable, but I suspect the way Labour is currently made up, they are incapable of learning the lesson that the middle is less radical than the party faithful would like you to think

      • Colonial Viper 110.2.1

        What does this say about identity based politics and the left?

        Identity politics has now receeded from its high water mark.

  97. Richard Rawshark 111

    CJ are you still at the US embassy Function, photo’s and update please..

  98. Muttonbird 112

    I thought Trump was very good in his speech just now. What was expected of him? To go gung-ho and demand adulation?

    He very quietly thanked Hillary Clinton for her service to the country and then equally quietly asked for help from her supporters to help America.

    It was very humble and not what I was expecting. I think the importance of office will tone down his excesses and concentrate his strengths.

    I reckon the rest of the world should stop asking ‘what’s in it for us’, and let him have a go.

    • Garibaldi 113.1

      Good night everyone. The sun will still rise tomorrow and we have the chance of a better America than a continuation of the shithole it has become.

  99. Whispering Kate 114

    I agree Muttonbird I thought his speech was gracious and statesman like, he didn’t have to read from notes either. I am disappointed that Hilary didn’t make an appearance and accept her defeat and left it to her appointed speaker.

    He is a businessman and didn’t get where he was without having some survival skills and intuition. I personally think he will be a pragmatic president, realise the importance of the position and act accordingly. I liked that he was aware of the veterans and their tenuous position with being looked after. He is a bit like Winnie, a Nationalist and we should give the man some credit – he may surprise us all. I am not in any way a Republican in my leanings but he has listened to the people and read their message. If the Democrats had accepted Bernie Sanders this situation may never had occurred. Hilary is as bent as a u-bend pipe – the people saw through her and she is a Hawk and would have been a danger – she is best retired now.

    Who would have thought it – I had a feeling he would come through but none of my friends thought he had a chance. Interesting days ahead for us all. I am going to just love seeing our PM peeing in his pocket – what a laugh that will be. And meeting the Queen – can’t wait to see that as well although Boris has done a pretty good job as the UK Foreign Secretary and the world thought he would make an idiot of himself so we could all be pleasantly surprised with Trump.

    • Richard Rawshark 114.1

      Like TPPA john, how’s that going?

      Thank you Trump. Already.

    • Muttonbird 114.2

      He’ll be better for the ordinary people of America than Clinton.

      China will be very unhappy which is good because they seem to be regressing into crackdowns and censorship. They need to be called out on this and the entire western world has done fuck all since Tiananmen square.

      Key peeing in his pocket is exactly what will happen. The imagery is hilarious.

    • Rosemary McDonald 114.3

      “…. I thought his speech was gracious and statesman like, he didn’t have to read from notes either.”

      You may well be right WK…sadly I missed it, somehow I had better things to do. However…

      …..young female relative described it as a ” beauty pageant, world -peace- and -all- that -shit” speech.

      Perspective, eh?

    • inspider 114.4

      small point, he did use notes; there was a teleprompter screen on either side of the podium which he clearly focused on for some of the key parts but much of the family bits were ad libbed

  100. McFlock 116

    Funny. When dunnokeyo won for the third time, I got all depressed. But tonight I can’t stop laughing every time I think of president trump.

    It’s just nuts.

  101. Richard Rawshark 117

    “Today the USA joined the UK in sending the establishment a message.
    The same thing that happened today in the US, and what happened earlier with Brexit in the UK, is happening here in NZ.
    Many of you, just as in the UK and USA, have been used and abused by the old political parties, and all of the new ones, except one.
    You’ve been ignored by the political parties who have been blind to your problems and deaf to your voices.
    My message to you today is, “I hear you. I see your troubles and help is on the way.”

    Spare me Winston.., Hillary isn’t even cold yet.

  102. The spanner (‘wrench’ in America I guess) has now been successfully thrown into the political machinery.

    Will they listen now? Or just continue to berate the ‘stupid fools’? Will they realise that people deserve respect, or just wait – impatiently – for the moment they can say ‘I told you so!’ and ‘You only have yourselves to blame for voting Trump!’?

    Political analysis should be the attempt to understand; not an excuse for a partisan group hug that doubles down on the entitlement of self-righteousness.

    The narrative that explains this is the one that US liberal political operators ignored in pursuit of BAU political advantage and also the one that many ordinary people on the left fervently argued could not possibly be true, let alone decisive (or so all their friends said).

    Yet … Corbyn, Sanders, Brexit, the far right, Podemos, Syriza (and, here, how about John Key?). What do all of these people and movements have in common? Outsiders all. Iconoclasts, misfits, eruptive, ‘inappropriate’.

    I’ve heard that, compared to Obama, Clinton underperformed with both African Americans and Hispanics. Think about that for a moment – underperformed with Hispanics in an election against Trump! – and wonder ‘why?’.

    Time to start afresh.

    I don’t agree entirely with this but here’s Thomas Frank in The Guardian:

    She was the Democratic candidate because it was her turn and because a Clinton victory would have moved every Democrat in Washington up a notch. Whether or not she would win was always a secondary matter, something that was taken for granted. Had winning been the party’s number one concern, several more suitable candidates were ready to go. There was Joe Biden, with his powerful plainspoken style, and there was Bernie Sanders, an inspiring and largely scandal-free figure. Each of them would probably have beaten Trump, but neither of them would really have served the interests of the party insiders.

    And so Democratic leaders made Hillary their candidate even though they knew about her closeness to the banks, her fondness for war, and her unique vulnerability on the trade issue – each of which Trump exploited to the fullest. They chose Hillary even though they knew about her private email server. They chose her even though some of those who studied the Clinton Foundation suspected it was a sketchy proposition.

    To try to put over such a nominee while screaming that the Republican is a rightwing monster is to court disbelief. If Trump is a fascist, as liberals often said, Democrats should have put in their strongest player to stop him, not a party hack they’d chosen because it was her turn. Choosing her indicated either that Democrats didn’t mean what they said about Trump’s riskiness, that their opportunism took precedence over the country’s well-being, or maybe both.

    Of course it was also the ordinary Democratic voter in the primary that put Clinton into the position of candidate but, irrespective, if you can’t read the powerful currents and winds of our time then don’t push a fair weather dinghy out into the storm (unless that’s all you’ve got).

    This is so sad.

    And I can’t help but feel sorry for Hillary Clinton. A lifetime’s work and ambition blown away by somebody like Trump (but, of course, that is to over-personalise the forces at work here).

    • Colonial Viper 118.1

      The spanner (‘wrench’ in America I guess) has now been successfully thrown into the political machinery.

      Michael Moore described him as a human molotov cocktail.

  103. ropata 119

    USA 2016 = NZ 2008
    Trump = Key
    Clinton = Clark

    The Dems have fucked over their “base” for too long, promises of hope and change were just smoke and mirrors. Clearly main street America is sick of the slick insider lies. Hillary and the Dems have nobody to blame but themselves. Many of Bernie’s supporters will have been disgusted and opted out, or gone over to Trump.

    • save nz 119.1

      @ Ropata – exactly. Instead of the democrats embracing Bernie to fight against Trump and taking some of his ideas and policies, they went winner takes all, zero compromise, and lost the election.

      As for the media, you reap what you sow. They have manipulated the news too many times and now most people don’t believe anything they read anymore. Murdock has delivered post truth politics and the public has pulled out the rug with Brexit and Trump to say Fuck you.

  104. Colonial Viper 120

    Why has Clinton not delivered a concession speech in person tonight? Why did she not appear at her campaign HQ and thank her supporters?

    • joe90 120.1

      Hanging chads?.

      Podesta told folk to go home, it ain’t over.

    • McFlock 120.2

      obviously she’s at death’s door /sarc

      • Colonial Viper 120.2.1

        Incredible that she did not even appear in front of her supporters and donors tonight to thank them and recognise their efforts.

        The end of the Clinton era.

        • fender 120.2.1.1

          I expect she needed to be tranquilised and put to bed..

        • Jenny 120.2.1.2

          Going against the global trend, the North Korean stock market rallied on the news of a Trump presidency, up 2 points on admittedly very light trading.

        • McFlock 120.2.1.3

          yes dear.

          Or she wants to see if she’ll litigate florida before making the speech to camera.

          • Colonial Viper 120.2.1.3.1

            I’ve been saying a Trump win would come in around 290 electoral votes.

            He’s currently at 289.

            • McFlock 120.2.1.3.1.1

              Indeed.

              150k votes less, he’d be on 160.

              BTW, you’ve “been saying” a massive spread over the last six months. Any trump victory, one of them had to be right.

        • Nic the NZer 120.2.1.4

          I am just amazed at the few number of comments from CV till the result was actually called. Where do you get your self control from?

          • Colonial Viper 120.2.1.4.1

            Greetings Nic the NZer. I looked at certain peoples comments about Trump and about Clinton and about the election this morning and decided that they were perfectly fine pulling out plenty of rope themselves.

  105. Adrian 121

    Things don’t seem right when half a dozen states in the last hour of the process all come down to less than 1%, states that are as diverse economically, ethnicly and seemingly politically as any 6 countries anywhere else in the world.
    Something smells.
    Then there is the confusion around Pennsylvania in the end, the delays, the 98% counted then suddenly only 89% and less than 1%.
    The national difference is less than .6%, that means flipping electronically only 3 votes in 1000.
    Piece of piss.
    Something really stinks.

  106. save nz 122

    This is a good article to explain how the democrats lost…

    Donald Trump is moving to the White House, and liberals put him there
    Thomas Frank

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/donald-trump-white-house-hillary-clinton-liberals

  107. The lost sheep 123

    The 1% is triumphant.
    Welcome to post truth politics.
    Who would have picked The Traditional Left would be an early causality?

    CV is drinking Champagne, and Gareth Morgan is the future.

    Whoa! Hold on tight. The ride will be nothing less than interesting…

  108. Venezia 124

    And the Polls were all wrong – just like they were in the UK with Brexit. That industry is no longer credible.

  109. Jenny 125

    HADES
    Why do we build the wall?
    My children, my children
    Why do we build the wall?

    CERBERUS
    Why do we build the wall?
    We build the wall to keep us free
    That?s why we build the wall
    We build the wall to keep us free

    HADES
    How does the wall keep us free?
    My children, my children
    How does the wall keep us free?

    CERBERUS
    How does the wall keep us free?
    The wall keeps out the enemy
    And we build the wall to keep us free
    That?s why we build the wall
    We build the wall to keep us free

    HADES
    Who do we call the enemy?
    My children, my children
    Who do we call the enemy?

    CERBERUS
    Who do we call the enemy?
    The enemy is poverty
    And the wall keeps out the enemy
    And we build the wall to keep us free
    That?s why we build the wall
    We build the wall to keep us free

    HADES
    Because we have and they have not!
    My children, my children
    Because they want what we have got!

    CERBERUS
    Because we have and they have not!
    Because they want what we have got!
    The enemy is poverty
    And the wall keeps out the enemy
    And we build the wall to keep us free
    That?s why we build the wall
    We build the wall to keep us free

    HADES
    What do we have that they should want?
    My children, my children
    What do we have that they should want?

    CERBERUS
    What do we have that they should want?
    We have a wall to work upon!
    We have work and they have none
    And our work is never done
    My children, my children
    And the war is never won
    The enemy is poverty
    And the wall keeps out the enemy
    And we build the wall to keep us free
    That?s why we build the wall
    We build the wall to keep us free
    We build the wall to keep us free

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=why+do+we+build+the+wall+song+you+tube&qpvt=why+do+we+build+the+wall+song+you+tube&view=detail&mid=8212316417A51381A0658212316417A51381A065&FORM=VRDGAR

    • Jenny 125.1

      “on day one, I’m going to begin swiftly removing criminal illegal immigrants from this country.
      “We’re going to send them back to where they came from,”

      Donald Trump at Sen. Joni Ernst’s annual “Roast and Ride” event in Des Moines, 27 Aug 2016.

      http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Trump-Iowa-immigration-deport/2016/08/27/id/745475/

      Hitler didn’t begin his persecution of the Jews by saying he was going to gas them and then roast their bodies in industrial scale crematoria.

      The Nazis claimed that that they were going to rid Europe of Jews, undesirables and aliens, by deporting them.

      The original publicly announced intention, was to deport them to the vast uninhabited “Liberated” territories of the newly conquered Soviet Union.

      “We only have to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will fall down”, said Adolf Hitler.

      As we know, it didn’t work out that way.

      Finding it impossible to deport that many people in wartime, the Nazis took to murdering those they claimed they were deporting to the newly conquered territories. To keep the fiction going, the Nazis even took to forging fake happy postcards from the East to their neighbors and workmates back home.

      The Nazis Nazis murdered an estimated 6 million Jews, 11 millon Gypsies, Communists, disabled, homosexuals and other “undesirable aliens”.

      http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_did_the_nazis_murder

      There are an estimated 11.1 million illegal immigrants in the USA.

      http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/11/17691515-by-the-numbers-how-america-tallies-its-111-million-undocumented-immigrants?lite

      Donald Trump is going to find out just like Hitler found out, that it is physically impossible to deport that many people, especially to some obscure destination. Even if the first port of call is to dump them all in the desert on the Mexican side of the US/Mexico border. There are not that many busses trucks, passenger trains and aeroplanes to deport that many people, the cost alone would be unafordable. A cheaper solution would be needed to forcibly transport that many people?

      Railway cattle cars would be perfect, secure lockable, inescapale, cheap.

      And once you have got all these millions of people herded ontoand locked into rail cars, what then?

      Ship them to Mexico?

      The bureaucracy would be horrendous and time consuming, no doubt many would die before they could be processed. And what if Mexico (like Russia) couldn’t take them after all?

      So what will be Donald Trump’s final solution?

  110. North 126

    Imagine the contortions and simpering that’ll go with Key hitching his arse to a new “New Camelot”. Hey……thought The Donald hated money traders et al. We’ll see I guess. Not sure if racism, misogyny and all the other ‘-isms’ and ‘-ys’

    But……if it deals a killer blow to neo-liberalism and all of its gaudy manifestations then algud. Ummmh…….. how’s gaudy gonna combat gaudy ? Would gaudy even want to ? Forgive me for doubting.

  111. Rosemary McDonald 127

    A friend just spent the evening at a small interest group conference. Some attendees were from the US, and were somewhat distracted throughout the evening events.

    Left leaning friend sat next to a Republican. Republican did not, could not vote for Trump. So didn’t vote at all.

    Reckoned if the Democrats had fielded ANY candidate other than Hillary they would have won.

    The depth of antithesis towards Hillary was a bit of a shock.

    She is seen as evil personified.

    • Kiwiri 127.1

      My Democrat friend from two decades ago said that no other Democrat could really stand because of Hillary. She wanted the job so badly, and had influence and money to secure it, that nobody else could stand until she had her turn.

  112. Amuses me that so many who purport to be ‘Left’would rather support H.R.C than Trump.

    Clinton , … who was the mouthpiece for the globalists , the extension of the Rothchilds banking elite , the darling of the military industrialists, avid worker for Murdocks globalist media chain, perpetrator and instigator of undeclared wars that cost so many their lives, supporter of trade deals that deliberately impoverished American workers to fulfill the globalists ideal of wealth redistribution to weaken the economic power of the USA and thus its status of a sovereign nation state in favour of a New World Order,…

    And those on the left being so tribal that they would accept all of that , … just so that they could call themselves ‘left’…

    Yet here we have a President elect who , at his speech had the humility and graciousness to praise his opponent ,… who wants to get rid of trade deals ( such as the TTPA would have been ) which undermine his country”s workers, that wants to avoid pointless and destructive wars, who wants to close down corruption in the American democratic system and those vested interests that have acted as parasites on the American people and treated them with contempt , that wants to put a stop to the exporting of jobs that put American workers out of a job , that wants to secure their borders against ILLEGAL immigrants , – not legal immigrants , … that in effect , … wants to undo and / or lessen the damage of 3 decades of neo liberal corporate theft and avarice…

    Its no wonder at all why Trump won.

    Yet here we have so many who would call themselves ‘Left’ that would rather support a corrupt stooge for the very globalization that they find themselves frequently railing against.

    Trump has stuck it to so many of these devious vested interest groups , and you will notice the screams and doomsayers already squawking loudly about the effects on the global F.I.R.E economy’s.

    They had it coming to them.

    Trump will be good for the American people , and as time will show , for international peace and trade relations as well .

    So despite the gaffes, – here he is , President elect.

    And lets also be reminded that many of the troublemakers at Trumps rallys were actually paid agent provocateurs that ultimately were working under direction from contracting firms that in turn , were under direction from certain among the Clinton campaigners.

  113. Stuart Munro 129

    One of the little curiosities of this election is, if Trump behaves with his customary vindictiveness, that Key’s “pay to play” donations of our money to the Clinton foundation are going to be so negative they make the Saudi Sheep Shemozzle look like a relatively good investment – I mean sure he micturated away our money like the ketone-laden residue of an aftermatch function – but the Saudis won’t hate him for that. Trump will be quite a different kettle of fish.

  114. inspider 130

    Clinton got/ spent nearly $700m in donations. And lost.

    Trump got just over $300m. And won.

    Trump also increased the republican Hispanic vote

    This election doesn’t seem to fit traditional analysis

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