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US Election Discussion Post Weekend Edition 5/11/16

Written By: - Date published: 5:55 am, November 5th, 2016 - 252 comments
Categories: us politics, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags: , ,

In order to free up Open Mike and Daily Review for other conversations we are asking that all discussion, posting of links etc on the US election go in this daily dedicated thread rather than OM or DR.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

There will continue to be author-written posts on the US election as well, usual rules apply there too.

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YibDgSd02Xk]

252 comments on “US Election Discussion Post Weekend Edition 5/11/16 ”

  1. Andre 1

    Why Putin is trying to disrupt the election. With some discussion of internal Kremlin politics around the effort.


    • Spikeyboy 1.1

      How any grown person can get pulled into this unsubstantiated hatred and villifying of Russia is a mystery. The Russian hack story is childish. Remember the private email server? How hard do you think that was to get into? And then theres the few thousand emails found on the laptop of the rather strange husband of a close aide of Clinton. These are just the security lapses that we know of. And you reckon it takes the full might of Russian cyber professionals to get hold of these emails? Get a grip man! Much more likely that the source of the leak is a bit closer to home i should think

    • Spikeyboy 1.2

      Tried to add this alternative view to the above but ran out of time…

      • Andre 1.2.1

        Y’know, your comment and your linked article has a definite infowars-ish flavour. And yep…


        • joe90

          Through the looking glass but no matter how Ecuadorian Bat Baby bizarre, they lap it up.

        • Spikeyboy

          And your point I suppose is the same as above. All Russians lie. Anyone associated with Russia is a liar. Anything associated with Russia is evil. All Western media tell the truth. Western politicians always tell the truth
          Sorry. Dont buy it

          • Andre

            Organisations such as Newsweek, The Guardian, NY Times etc at least make an effort to check facts and present a reasonably balanced and fair picture within the limitations of everybody tending to flavour their narrative towards their preferred point of view. When new evidence comes to light that alters previous conclusions, they will generally say so.

            By contrast, Infowars, Breitbart, RT, ProjectVeritas, and similar go out of their way to deliberately mislead by selective editing and in some cases outright lying. As far as I can tell, RT is almost in the same category.

            Personally I view anything said by any politician as an attempt to deceive, until it’s proven otherwise. But I find the fact-checkers to be fairly persuasive when they conclude that Hillary has an unusually low frequency of dishonesty (though still way too high). And Russian politicians don’t even have the constraint of having fact-checkers on their case.

  2. joe90 2

    Donna Brazile!

    #teamwork #NH pic.twitter.com/5T4oOEyBt2— Kellyanne Conway (@KellyannePolls) November 4, 2016

  3. joe90 3

    And we hit a new high in fuckwittery – Sprit cooking!.


    • AsleepWhileWalking 3.1

      Is that HUMAN breast milk + semen, or could you substitute GOAT (possibly a virgin lactating goat that also produces semen) and drink it after an earthquake if a lactating human female isn’t available? Soy formulas and sagging breasts must have been hell for practitioners of this stuff. Honestly anyone who believes this mixture will provide anything more than an upset tummy deserves to have their disposable income used up in the purchase of ritual objects, magi(k)al rocks, and Satanic bibles. FYI ask at Pinnacle Books. They are kept behind the counter out of view.

    • joe90 3.2

      Oh dear.

      LEAKED EMAIL appears to link Clinton Campaign Chairman to bizarre occult ritual https://t.co/TRbdaEOM6y— Sean Hannity (@seanhannity) November 4, 2016

      edit: Trumpzis are losing it

      WikiLeaks: Clinton Campaign Chair Participated in Occult Magic https://t.co/HC5SK6IZCh via @LifeZette— Laura Ingraham (@IngrahamAngle) November 4, 2016

      • miravox 3.2.1

        Christ! A Salem bloody witch-trials reprise can’t be too far away – there are still a few days to generate a bit of mass hysteria.

        • joe90

          Crooked Wicked Hillary.

          All wickedness is but little to the wickedness of a woman… What else is woman but a foe to friendship, an unescapable punishment, a necessary evil, a natural temptation, a desirable calamity, domestic danger, a delectable detriment, an evil nature, painted with fair colours… When a woman thinks alone, she thinks evil… Women are by nature instruments of Satan — they are by nature carnal, a structural defect rooted in the original creation.

          Malleus Maleficarum

          • marty mars

            sadly it is all part of the continual dehumanising of clinton – she is part of a machine and so on. This dehumanising is important for her enemies because once you decide a person or class of people for that matter, is sub-human you can treat them as harshly as you want, you can murder them, you can hate them with every fibre of your being as unclean, demons, dogs. And when you get to there you have lost your own humanity and atrocities begin and flourish. I am noting many trump supporters moving steadily along this pathway and there is only massive pain and anguish to come I fear.

            • Macro

              Sadly – this is so very true.

              If some people are seen as sub-human, then it is ok to vilify.

              Before – YKW – comes by saying “but Hillary does it too!” we are talking here about the ethics of the matter, and one only needs to look at who the major perpetrators are.

            • One Two

              The dehumanizing is happening to the world citizenship and Hillary Clinton is part of the machine responsible for the agenda

              You’re defending the wrong corner pal!

              • I defend non-dehumanising – there is no corner with that but please keep missing the point either through ignorance or deliberate evasion – it does you no favours.

                • One Two

                  Except the primary component of your comment is specifically in relation to HRC, who is part of a machine which dehumanizes billions of people

                  I think you’re too emotionally invested in the election discussion, as I mentioned yesterday

                  Many on here have swilled at the saloon of misdirection and deflection which the machine has provided and instead of foscussing energy at the machine, are abusiveand insulting to eachother…

                  That includes you, Marty which makes me somewhat skeptical about your claim to be against dehumanization..

                  The insults you throw could indicate otherwise

                  Think about it!

                  • And it includes you too one two – heal thyself

                    • One Two

                      Absolutely it does, Marty

                      We’re all on our individual journeys and all of those journeys are interrelated

                      Abusing others on an anonymous blog is beneath you, if reading your comments around different subject matter is the basis of reference

                      It makes no sense that commentators here would be so hostile towards eachother about something as rotton and fraudulant as the US electoral process and political frameworks

            • Cemetery Jones

              Hey hey hey hey no citing of Joy Division in defence of plutocracy!

          • miravox

            Crooked – Nasty – Evil – Wicked

            Scary how that misogynist sentiment seems to fit the Trumpist mood right now.

      • marty mars 3.2.2

        That made me laugh – could be some ‘underrated’ nutbars there methinks. I spose they’ll have a babybloodslurpingclinton story soon, if not done already.

    • Spikeyboy 4.1

      Oh. So because Colin did it its ok for everyone. In any case most people have now moved on from the fact of the private sever to the content of the emails. It is becoming cllear that the Clinton foundation offers some pretty nasty people with a lot of money to pay for the ability to completely fuck over cultures and societies that they don’t like. I would say that this is also not new. Colin and George told big lies to fuck over a large part of the Muslim wotld. We just dont have the paper trail to show how the money flowed. So you’re saying because Colin and George did it it’s ok for Hillary to do it too?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1

        It doesn’t look as though Andre said anything of the sort. Have you ever heard the term “loaded question”?

        It shouldn’t be hard for you to point to the email that proves that the Clinton foundation behaves as you describe. Not an article, the actual raw email or emails that make your case.

        After all, you’re so convinced it’s true you must have had a look at them already, right? Right?

        Don’t waste my time with anything other than links to those actual emails – I’ll take that as you waving the white flag, got it?

        • Spikeyboy

          Actually he did via the article he linked to

        • Spikeyboy

          Oh so now its beat up on the person because you get angry with what they are saying?
          The email is at
          There is an official acceptance (until now denied) of Qatari government and Saudi government finacial and material support of ISIS. Its in point 4. Can I leave it to you to find out how many millions these two governments have donated to the Clinton Foundation or do you need help with that too?

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            So not paying for “the ability to fuck over other cultures”, then.

            • Colonial Viper

              it’s amazing how you give a pass to multi-million dollar corruption when it is performed by left wing politicians and public officials.

              At this stage, the main reason that Hillary Clinton and her core staffing team needs to win on Nov 8 is to avoid federal prison time from being involved in multiple RICO and national security violations.

              • “At this stage, the main reason that Hillary Clinton and her core staffing team needs to win on Nov 8 is to avoid federal prison time from being involved in multiple RICO and national security violations.”

                I can see why you’d like to think that, hell you probably pray for it – but it doesn’t make it true or even close to true. Just wishful thinking by you and your trumperts.

                • Colonial Viper

                  You have doubts? Do some research for yourself about Hillary Clinton helping UBS out with IRS demands, and where the money flowed.

                  • you mean like watch some videos like you – nah I’ll leave that to you-of-great-courage mate

                    • Colonial Viper

                      you need to turn your eye and look directly at what Hillary Clinton did for UBS in order to help UBS deal with its IRS troubles.

                      Clinton did this while she was Sec State.


                    • I have noticed a lot of, “you need to…” or “the real question is…” or “the question to ask is…” from you cv. Is the agreed on projected narrative from your man trump, and your fellow supporters of your man, getting messy?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Did you read the piece?

                    • dukeofurl

                      Did YOU read the comments to your piece

                      “. The settlement wasn’t a favor from Clinton to let the bank off the hook. The settlement was arranged by the Justice Department and the IRS. They signed the agreement. Clinton had the privilege of announcing it during a visit by Switzerland’s Foreign Minister.”

                      So no Clinton fingerprints on that one at all. As you would expect the Secretary of State doesnt negotiate tax deals for the Justice department or the IRS. [ US Agencies are notoriously independent form their head agency ( viz FBI – DOJ) let alone a completely different department.

                      And the deal!
                      “February 18 2009
                      The Department of Justice
                      UBS Enters into Deferred Prosecution Agreement

                      The Swiss Financial Markets Supervisory Authority agreed to allow UBS to identify its clients.
                      UBS agreed to pay $780 Million in fines, penalties, interest and restitution, the sum of UBS profits from its American clients and taxes that should have been withheld from investment income paid to its American clients.
                      UBS agreed to expeditiously exit the business of providing banking services to US clients with undeclared accounts..

                      Tell us again -without referring to the WSJ story- what the UBS got from Clinton again.
                      The deal was done by others under the
                      the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)
                      ” It was passed in March 2010 and it went into effect July 1 2014. FATCA requires foreign financial institutions in participant countries, to report all income paid to American account holders, thus ending tax haven practices in over 70 jurisdictions around the world including Switzerland, the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, etc.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      “. The settlement wasn’t a favor from Clinton to let the bank off the hook. The settlement was arranged by the Justice Department and the IRS. They signed the agreement. Clinton had the privilege of announcing it during a visit by Switzerland’s Foreign Minister.”

                      Wow, you really don’t get it.

                      I’ll clue you in.

                      Due to Hillary Clinton’s intervention, the IRS got fewer than one in ten of the UBS US client details that they originally asked for (4,450 out of 52,000).

                      If the full details of what UBS had been doing with the full client list had been released to the IRS, it is quite possible that UBS would have been permanently sunk.

                      Now do you get it.

                    • dukeofurl

                      You have no evidence ‘she intervened on behalf of UBS’ with the justice department and IRS.

                      You are just repeating the Wall St Journal fantasy.

                      They claim that , with no evidence, none at all.
                      “Hillary Clinton stepped in to negotiate a deal that prevented the IRS from gaining access to more than 91 percent of the illicit, tax-evading offshore accounts.”
                      Must have some sort of cause and effect. You make it sound she was IRS Commissioner as well as Attorney General, instead of being only at State.
                      The deal UBS has no connection to Clinton,

                      Smoking Gun…. becomes a water pistol yet again.

                • Spikeyboy

                  Wishing to see the real Hillary beneath the facade we are presented with does not mean endorsing Trump even if it is a two horse race. Change has to start somewhere and we need to stop trying to figure out who is the lesser evil and back people we really believe in such as Jill Stein if that is your inclination regardless of her chances of winning. Even if you are 100% successful (doubtful) in picking the lesser evil the parh still leads to evil. At some point the choice comes to between a genocidal murderer and a pathological killer. How do you choose the lesser evil now?

                  • Andre

                    Stein’s policies are by far the best fit to my beliefs, but a realistic assessment says Clinton’s policies aren’t very far behind. However, even if we were in an alternate universe where Stein and Clinton were the two front-runners, I might still end up swallowing hard and voting for Clinton.

                    Because actually having the ability to do the job really is important. There’s no doubt Clinton has the ability, but there’s serious questions about whether Stein would.


                    • One Two

                      Not a single human being alive has ‘the ability’ so they sure as hell should not be given the responsibility..

                      There is not even a trace of genuine accountability inside politics of the USA

                      It is absurd to believe that the systems in place have a ‘single’ role who is ‘in charge’

                      Move on from the mind traps

                      Humanity does not not need criminals like The Clintons and those they represent as the paid puppets they are!

                    • Andre

                      The ego creates intrinsic fulfillment

                    • One Two []

                      Do you understand the nature of the trap you’re in, Andre?

                    • Andre

                      Each of us illuminates sub empirical belonging

                    • Spikeyboy

                      No fly zone in Syria seems pretty distant.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      With it’s S300 and S400 systems Russia has in effect already created a no-fly zone over large areas of Syria which they can switch on at any moment.

              • Chooky

                +100 CV

                • dukeofurl

                  Its a D fail. he just ran a rehash of a WSJ story.
                  Clinton wasnt doing UBS any favours , she couldnt.

    • Colonial Viper 4.2

      Why Clinton’s e-mails should be a non-issue.

      The real question is: why did Hillary Clinton need a private email server residing outside of official oversight, record keeping and FOIA requests to do State Department work on.

      Of course, the answer is obvious, and also highly illegal and corrupt.

  4. AsleepWhileWalking 5

    “Trump won’t be permitted to win” – Julian Assange.
    Oh…and ISIS is funded by the very people who are giving money to the Clinton Foundation.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 5.1

      In 2015 the US supplied 20 billion dollars worth of weapons to the Saudis.

      • Colonial Viper 5.1.1

        And they keep selling more advanced weaponry to the Saudis even as the Saudis wage war on the poorest country in the Middle East, Yemen, including hitting a funeral gathering a few weeks ago killing and injuring 500-600 people.

    • Chooky 5.2

      +100 Asleep WhileWalking …good link!

      I still hope that enough Americans will see through the corruption of the Clinton Foundation and Hillary Clinton’s past form as a warmonger and vote against her

      ….and hold their noses and vote for Trump

  5. Andre 6

    A deep dive into the alt-right deplorables cesspool. Hard core Trump supporters. Warning, it’s fairly long and disturbing.


    • Manuka AOR 6.1

      From that link:
      in Trump, the troll army found an even greater purpose and a megaphone. Not only does the Republican nominee seem to share certain character traits with many alt-righters—he is deliberately offensive, he clearly enjoys trolling people on Twitter—he also circulates their rhetoric and imagery.

      The Trump campaign has also unwittingly generated valuable intel. Heimbach and Parrott are using a map of Trump strongholds to target areas where white nationalism would play best. “If they’re ready to vote for Trump, they can’t be too far away from being ready to support a real nationalist party,” Heimbach reasoned.

      On the state level, Heimbach and Parrott want to run sleeper agents masquerading as GOP candidates. And on the federal level, they intend to run spoilers against mainstream conservative incumbents in close districts, the idea being that if they could steal 2 percent of the vote and knock out a cuck, they’d have a “disproportionate impact” with a minimal spend. Their plan sounded preposterous. But, then, so did the notion of Trump as a candidate a year ago.
      “The Republicans need racists to win,” Heimbach said.

  6. joe90 7

    Colonial Viper 23.4.1
    3 November 2016 at 5:50 pm

    The problem with Baier’s claptrap is the FBI doesn’t indict people, the DOJ does.


    If you could address the substance of his reporting, that would be appreciated.


    It was claptrap.


    Fox News anchor Bret Baier on Friday apologized on-air for reporting that there would “likely” be an FBI indictment against the Clinton Foundation for alleged pay-to-play schemes.

    “That just wasn’t inartful, it was a mistake and for that I’m sorry. I should have said they will continue to build their case,” Baier told host Jon Scott on Fox’s “Happening Now.”


    • Colonial Viper 7.1

      I agree and understood the (important) technicality – but the guts of it is that separate investigations into the Clinton Foundation apart from the private email server are ongoing, and that the FBI has not in fact destroyed the laptops belonging to Hillary Clinton’s aides but are currently “exploiting” them.

  7. Andre 8

    Another quality “thought” from one of the other serious Republican contenders.


  8. AsleepWhileWalking 10

    : (
    Terror warning for election day – “conspiracy theorists” have been warning of a false flag attack prior to either election day or inauguration on January 20, 2017. Specifically something similar to a TET offensive attacking multiple points simultaneously throughout the USA.

    As if this country didn’t have enough on her shoulders.


  9. AsleepWhileWalking 11

    Just…eww. Sounded dramatic and unlikely when Alex Jones said it, but now…not so much.

    Going out in the sun to help to sanitize my eyeballs after reading this. Alledged code words pedos use found included in Podesta emails.


  10. Manuka AOR 13

    Rudy Giuliani: FBI Insiders Leaked to Trump Campaign

    Rudy says this on vid here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rudy-giuliani-fbi-clinton-emails_us_581c9e3fe4b0e80b02c93d6b

  11. Manuka AOR 14

    “The FBI is Trumpland”:

    Deep antipathy to Hillary Clinton exists within the FBI, multiple bureau sources have told the Guardian, spurring a rapid series of leaks damaging to her campaign just days before the election.

    Current and former FBI officials, none of whom were willing or cleared to speak on the record, have described a chaotic internal climate that resulted from outrage over director James Comey’s July decision not to recommend an indictment over Clinton’s maintenance of a private email server on which classified information transited.

    “The FBI is Trumpland,” said one current agent.

    • Colonial Viper 14.1

      The question to ask is why long time FBI agents have reached the point of near-open mutiny against the Obama run Justice Department.

      These are people who not just understand RICO infractions, but also national security breaches. And they see that the politically compromised Loretta Lynch run DOJ sitting on its hands, preventing the FBI from conducting a serious investigation.

      • Pasupial 14.1.1

        However, these are also people who do not seem to understand that the law also applies to them (ie the Hatch act).

        • Colonial Viper

          i think both in July and a week ago, Director Comey knew that what he was doing was utterly politically charged. Yes he did break DOJ policy and guidelines, although I am not sure if he broke the Hatch Act.

          However IMO Comey felt that while he could not take away the democratic decision from the American people on who the next President should be, he also had a duty to inform voters that there were some issues they needed to consider.

          • Manuka AOR

            IMO Comey felt that while he could not take away the democratic decision from the American people

            But he did take away that right. I took away their right to know that he had nothing on Hillary, that all he had was the innuendo that he used to suggest he had something.

            The FBI culture was so extremely toxic towards Hillary that she was referred to as “the antichrist”: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11742743

            • dukeofurl

              The idea of Loretta Lynch sitting on FBI investigations is ludicrous.

              The head of the FBI is appointed by the President not Lynch, so he wouldnt listen even if she wanted to say something.
              FBI budget is made by Congress, so its not dependent on DOJ

              That ‘long time FBI agents’ are reactionary would be no surprise, even to you.
              SO it baffles me that you care their feelings are upset, same goes for ‘long time military officers ‘who are itching for a fight with Russia.

              • Colonial Viper

                The idea of Loretta Lynch sitting on FBI investigations is ludicrous.

                In fact, it’s fundamental.

                AFAIK only the Department of Justice can empanel a Grand Jury or issue subpoenas, which are critical tools the FBI requires to conduct a full investigation.

                Loretta Lynch has consistently refused to do either of the above in regards to the Clinton private server investigation and the Clinton Foundation investigation.

                This is how the politically compromised DOJ has hamstrung the highly professional and non-partisan FBI.

            • Andre

              Maybe the FBI’s socioeconomic makeup has something to do with their enthusiasm for Trump.


      • joe90 14.1.2

        The question to ask is why long time FBI agents have reached the point of near-open mutiny against the Obama run Justice Department

        Mutiny, or Rudy and Donald calling in the favours?.

        Back in August, during a contentious CNN interview about Comey’s July announcement clearing Hillary Clinton of criminal charges, Giuliani advertised his illicit FBI sources, who circumvented bureau guidelines to discuss a case with a public partisan. “The decision perplexes me. It perplexes Jim Kallstrom, who worked for him. It perplexes numerous FBI agents who talk to me all the time. And it embarrasses some FBI agents.”

        Kallstrom is the former head of the New York FBI office, installed in that post in the ’90s by then-FBI director Louis Freeh, one of Giuliani’s longtime friends. Kallstrom has, like Giuliani, been on an anti-Comey romp for months, most often on Fox, where he’s called the Clintons as a “crime family.” He has been invoking unnamed FBI agents who contact him to complain about Comey’s exoneration of Clinton in one interview after another, positioning himself as an apolitical champion of FBI values.


        Kallstrom, who served as a Marine before becoming an agent, didn’t mention that a charity he’d founded decades ago and that’s now called the Marine Corps Law Enforcement Foundation, was the single biggest beneficiary of Trump’s promise to raise millions for veterans when he boycotted the Iowa primary debate. A foundation official said that Trump’s million-dollar donation this May, atop $100,000 that he’d given in March, were the biggest individual grants it had ever received. The Trump Foundation had contributed another $230,000 in prior years and Trump won the organization’s top honor at its annual Waldorf Astoria gala in 2015.


        Kallstrom, who first worked with Giuliani when the future mayor was a young assistant prosecutor in the early ’70s, was Pataki’s public safety director for five years after the 9/11 attacks and claims he was the one who recommended Comey to Pataki, who got the Bush White House to name him to Giuliani’s old job, U.S. attorney for the Southern District in 2001. Comey had worked in the Southern District for years, hired as a young assistant in 1987 by Freeh, then a top Giuliani deputy.

        Kallstrom’s victory tour this weekend also included an appearance on Fox with former Westchester District Attorney Jeanine Pirro, another close associate of Pataki’s, who complained on air that she’d been the victim in 2006 when word emerged that the U.S attorney and FBI were probing her in the midst of a race she eventually lost to Andrew Cuomo to become New York Attorney General.


  12. Manuka AOR 15

    US FBI – ‘out of control’

    It would seem that basically everyone at the FBI is leaking their sides of various internal disputes and turf wars, largely tied to various investigations of the Clintons or attempts to start investigations of the Clintons. That alone paints a picture of Director James Comey as having totally lost control of the organization. But the points of dispute themselves, well ….

    The WSJ’s Devlin Barrett seems to have become the chief conduit of choice for anti-Clinton agents at the FBI, as I mentioned over the weekend. This new piece is somewhat more evenhanded, possibly. But I’m not sure the facts of the matter would make it possible to make the pro-investigation agents case not seem iffy.

  13. Pasupial 16

    Who needs evidence when you’ve got conviction?
    (and a conviction is hopefully exactly what this idiot is going to get):

    Police found six children, ranging in age from 12 to 14, sitting on the grass with Kubek yelling and cursing at them. He told the officer he was highly upset because he believed the kids destroyed his Trump sign.

    The officer asked Kubek if he witnessed any of the juveniles that were sitting on the grass destroy the sign. According to police, Kubek responded that he did not. He also responded to the officer that he does not have security cameras that could offer proof as to who may have destroyed his lawn sign…

    The juveniles told police Kubek accused them of damaging his sign, then he pulled out a pistol and pointed it at them. He then told them to sit down on the grass.

    The kids said they tried to tell Kubek they did not damage his sign, but it only resulted with Kubek telling them to shut up and continue cursing at them. They said Kubek held them at gunpoint while his mother called police…

    The officer said he talked with each kid individually and they all confirmed that Kubek pointed a gun at them. Each of them also gave written statements of their account of the incident.

    Kubek told the officer he was upset because a week earlier his house was egged and his political signs damaged.


  14. Andre 17

    Ignoring the malicious kooks planting smoke bombs then running around shouting fire, there are still fair criticisms of the Clinton Foundation.


  15. joe90 18

    I hope the Jones fans are as embarrassed as they should be.

    Alex Jones Proven Right About @HillaryClinton's Satanism ConnectionsLearn more: https://t.co/iUw4FIzaRt #SpiritCooking #Hillary2016 pic.twitter.com/TkOReVc2UF— Alex Jones (@RealAlexJones) November 4, 2016

  16. Manuka AOR 19

    Trump has destroyed documents and emails in defiance of court orders, for forty years.

    Donald Trump’s secret weapons are a paper shredder and a delete button. The white nationalist rhetoric and “lock her up” chants might be getting all the attention, and Trump himself has lost his mind with glee over FBI director James Comey’s announcement of potential new Hillary Clinton emails, but the candidate and his companies have been conveniently destroying thousands of emails and paper documents that were requested by prosecutors going back decades, a new investigation from Newsweek’s Kurt Eichenwald reveals.


    • Colonial Viper 19.1

      Trump has destroyed documents and emails in defiance of court orders, for forty years.

      This sounds like the usual modus operandi for Trump and his legal team.

      However I have a slightly different question:

      Has he ever destroyed documents and emails after receiving a Congressional Subpoena, like Hillary has? Or after having signed an OF-109 Department of State separation agreement committing to having returned all official documents to State on threat of perjury, like Huma Abedin has?

      • Chooky 19.1.1

        @CV ….re “like Huma Abedin has?”

        who is Huma Abedin?…who is Clinton’s right hand woman?…and why is the secret service so concerned?




        • DeadSmurf

          Infowars is conspiracy related garbage. There are plenty of very good news sources such as The Young Turks rather than the propaganda peddled by Infowars.

          • AsleepWhileWalking

            a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
            “a conspiracy to destroy the government”

            This ^^ is a reality or we wouldn’t have terrorists.

            While extreme in terms of personality, Infowars is serving a need for information. Frankly if MSM weren’t so corrupted then I doubt Infowars would exist at all.

            • DeadSmurf

              Alex Jones and muppets like him are quite happy to destroy government. They are not the only alternative to the MSM, they are just the alternative that you choose to follow.

              • Colonial Viper

                Alex Jones and muppets like him are quite happy to destroy government.

                That’s a nonsense claim.

                As far as I can tell however, Jones believes that the US Government interferes too much in the day to day lives of ordinary people, and more to the point, has mutated to the point where it is either totally disregarding, or in fact actively working against the bottom 95%.

                I reckon that’s not far off.

      • Macro 19.1.2

        We don’t know because they have all been destroyed when asked for in evidence in a court of law.

        The fact is – your man does it too!

        Now let’s get down to the important issues – what consecutive policies does Trump bring to the role of POTUS?

        Climate Change – well that’s a hoax and the long term Paris Agreement which has been years in the making (and the only possible hope for the future of the Earth) – he will tear it up.

        Taxes – well we know what he has in mind for that! Get those who can least afford pay more, and halve the “burden” on those who evade/avoid anyway.

        Health – trash the the only attempt that the US has ever made to introduce a workable Public Health scheme aimed at those who are unable to afford the extreme costs of Health Care in the US.

        Has he any policies of introducing a fair wage for workers? Not if his own behaviour to workers is anything to go by.

        Need I go on.?

        His intention to expand the military does not bode well for a peaceful future bearing in mind the inevitable consequences of increasing droughts, famines, and natural weather disasters brought about by his ignorance of CC. Furthermore his extreme ignorance of the political world and the relationships between countries is worrying in the extreme.

        Yes obviously the best choice for POTUS /sarc

        • Colonial Viper

          you’re an ex military man. Read up on how Clinton and her entire staff abused their handling of confidential and top secret information, and left it wide open for foreign powers to access.

          • Macro

            Oh FFS! We know Hillary is bad as well, but there are degrees of bad just as there are degrees of goodness and I’m sorry but Trump is the bottom of the barrel – and you know it!

            • Garibaldi

              I can’t understand all you people who support Hillary. The evidence against her is irrefutable. Sure Trump is an absolute moron ,but so are most Republicans. Hillary is nothing but bad news for anyone who doesn’t want Nuclear war. She is exactly what the American Empire wants and that is why she will get the job, but we just can’t afford to have her in the hot seat .It will be the end.

              • Manuka AOR

                bad news for anyone who doesn’t want Nuclear war

                – Trump has said he might use nuclear weapons, and has questioned why the US doesn’t use them when they have them

                – Trump has said he is open to “nuking Europe”, “because it’s a big place”.

                – Trump has said, “You want to be unpredictable” with nuclear weapons – more than once

                – Trump has said he is not worried about more countries getting nuclear weapons since “it’s not like, gee whiz, nobody has them”

                – Trump said he’d be ok with a nuclear arms race in Asia (that’s us, btw)

                – He said he is ok with Saudi Arabia getting nuclear weapons because “it’s gong to happen anyway”

                All these and more are evident on vid, – Trump speaking, and with transcripts, at this link: https://thinkprogress.org/9-terrifying-things-donald-trump-has-publicly-said-about-nuclear-weapons-99f6290bc32a?gi=6c9ad7f06e09

              • Macro

                That is the most ignorant comment I have read.
                I have served on top management posts in the military and I can assure you that of anyone who is to be put in charge of the “red button” it should not be Trump. Remember this is the man who at 3am is regularly tweeting abusive, and obviously alcohol induced comments, against all and sundry. Just imagine if he was given a false red alert at 3am.
                Let me remind you. No one wants nuclear war – least of all the military – for they know more than anyone else, what that would mean.
                The POTUS does not make any decision on escalating war lightly. Advisors are always there, and Hillary Clinton would be given advice on these matters, and I am certain that she would be more likely to follow the counsel of her advisors than Trump, who is known, and has demonstrated, time and time again to reject sound advice given to him.
                For goodness sake Trump didn’t even know what START was when he was asked a question on it!

                DONALD TRUMP: Referring to a 2010 U.S.-Russia treaty limiting both countries to 1,550 strategic nuclear warheads, Trump said, “They create warheads. We can’t.”

                The FACTS: Incorrect. The New START treaty, which Trump called “Start Up,” does not prevent either the U.S. or Russia from building nuclear warheads. It restricts each country to a total of 1,550 warheads deployed on bombers, submarines and in underground silos and requires that this limit be reached by February 2018.

                And it is Trump’s not Clinton’s policy to allow Japan, South Korea and other counties to get nuclear weapons! Such a policy is completely contrary to both Republican and Democrat policy on the issue of non proliferation.

                Trump should heed the warnings of past presidents who were also very smart. “I ask you to stop and think for a moment what it would mean to have nuclear weapons in so many hands, in the hands of countries large and small, stable and unstable, responsible and irresponsible, scattered throughout the world,” President Kennedy said in 1963. “There would be no rest for anyone then, no stability, no real security and no chance of effective disarmament.”
                If Trump would rather hear it from his own party, President Reagan laid out his vision clearly. “We seek the total elimination one day of nuclear weapons from the face of the Earth,” he said in his inaugural address in 1985.
                Or to use another Reagan quote in language Trump might better understand, “Everybody would be a loser if there’s a nuclear war.”

                • One Two

                  ‘Top MANAGEMENT posts in the military’

                  Appeal to ‘self authority’?…..No thanks and I’ve been reading the nonsense you’ve written regarding the US election

                  Gordon Bennett, it’s all on show at this site….

                  • Macro

                    So you are reduced to ad hominem…
                    And no if you were to read my comment I just don’t appeal to self authority, but after 5 years in senior posts at Def HQ at least I know that such vital decisions as nuclear war would and should not be made on just one persons whim. Unfortunately one could never be sure were Trump to hold the power.

                • Manuka AOR

                  And it is Trump’s not Clinton’s policy to allow Japan, South Korea and other counties to get nuclear weapons!

                  Yes, he’s fine with ‘Asia’ getting into a nuclear race. Brilliant for Aotearoa’s future (not).

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Japan and South Korea already have all the technical know-how required to build a nuclear weapon.

                    Having said that, it would be a bad idea to let additional countries develop nuclear weapons – and the question around that is the role the USA can play in supporting a wider Indian/Asian security situation which enables countries to voluntarily give up their nuclear warheads/plans to obtain nuclear warheads.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Trump was doing his standard trolling routine when he was spouting off about nukes.

                  If you want to avoid a nuclear confrontation, the most important thing to consider is whether it is Trump or whether it is Clinton who will be most likely to escalate military tensions right next to Russia and right next to China.

                  In my mind, the track record shows that Hillary Clinton, backed by the neocons, who will continue to ratchet up military tensions right up to the borders of Russia and China.

                  • Macro

                    Well Trump won’t want to bite the hand that feeds him…
                    On the other hand I believe you wholly overstate the case with respect to the escalation of nuclear tensions between the US and Russia. Certainly Russia and the US do not see eye to eye at the present time particularly over Middle East issues – but then they haven’t for a long time. I’m with Wayne on this. He has seen how these matters are resolved close up as an MP and member of Cabinet and I have from the wings. These things are not played out by one individual. Hillary knows how the system works having worked in it for years. But one could not feel as certain about that with Trump – he is his “own man” – he has a history of acting on his own initiative rather than following the advice of others – and if the results of his past endeavours are anything to go by, then they are more likely to lead to failure than success.
                    As for the tension between China and the US. I believe that is more a result of China flexing its muscle – particularly over the South China Sea – rather than anything to do with the US. Trump saying he is happy for South Korea and Japan to develop nuclear weapons, however, would not help to ease tensions in the region in any way what so ever. It just shows his naivety in statesmanship and diplomacy. He would be a fish out of water.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      He has seen how these matters are resolved close up as an MP and member of Cabinet and I have from the wings. These things are not played out by one individual. Hillary knows how the system works having worked in it for years. But one could not feel as certain about that with Trump – he is his “own man” – he has a history of acting on his own initiative rather than following the advice of others – and if the results of his past endeavours are anything to go by, then they are more likely to lead to failure than success.

                      And that is why Trump has so much support. The system’s shafting so many people and so people are voting to change the system. That change isn’t coming from the Left as it needs to and so we get demagogues instead of progressive change.

                    • Macro

                      Yes Draco I completely understand that – Unfortunately It is a misguided faith to think that Trump will be the new Messiah. He has no policies to address the disasters of the neo-liberal wasteland that now envelopes the “rust belt” from which most of his support comes. His only “claim to fame” is his anti-TPPA, stance but one wonders if that is, not because of the loss of work for US workers, (has he ever cared for them?) but more to do with the terms for copyright for Big Pharma.
                      As far as policy goes Clinton has 70 pages of Policy, much of it including the policy stance of Bernie Sanders. On the other hand Trump has but 7, and most of that waffle.
                      The main problem, should Clinton be successful, is whether or not the Democrats control the Senate, because it is there that legislation and the money to run the country is determined. Obama has had a poor run on introducing his policy platform because the stance of the Republican Senate has been to oppose whatever the President proposed. The current race for the Senate is neck and neck. If it is the same result as Obama faced – then the Democrats can have as much Policy as they like – but it won’t get it passed 1st base.

                  • I think cv you’ll find he pretty well from the get go has been trolling. Trump doesn’t have a non-trolling setting imo.

                • Macro

                  I have served on top management posts in the military and I can assure you that of anyone who is to be put in charge of the “red button” it should not be Trump. Remember this is the man who at 3am is regularly tweeting abusive, and obviously alcohol induced comments, against all and sundry. Just imagine if he was given a false red alert at 3am.

                  I note none less that the current POTUS himself is of exactly the same opinion as myself – and I stated this before President Obama.

                  President Barack Obama on Sunday mocked Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump for having his Twitter access taken away by his campaign staff, who hope to minimize the real estate mogul’s frequent social media ramblings in the last days before the election.

                  “Apparently, his campaign has taken away his Twitter,” Obama said, speaking at a Hillary Clinton rally in Kissimmee, Florida. “In the last two days, they had so little confidence in his self-control, that they said, ‘We’re just going to take away your Twitter.’”

                  Now, if somebody can’t handle a Twitter account,” he continued, to audience laughter, “they can’t handle the nuclear codes. If somebody starts tweeting at 3 in the morning because ‘SNL’ made fun of you, then you can’t handle the nuclear codes.

                  Trump’s campaign has reined in the candidate’s freewheeling and often late-night Twitter rants in the final days of the election, hoping to keep him disciplined and on message.


              • TheExtremist

                Not sure anyone here has ever stated a support for Hillary

    • Manuka AOR 19.2

      Also from that article:

      Trump has made a mockery of our justice system. He demands his political opponent be put in jail for far more minor versions of the crimes he’s used to defraud innocent Americans, not to mention the government, for decades. As Eichenwald puts it, “He has solemnly told the country to trust him while refusing to produce any records to prove whether he speaks the truth or has utter contempt for it.”


  17. AsleepWhileWalking 20

    Obama….two minutes of “hold up, hold up….” as he tries to quell the crowd.

    • Chooky 21.1

      ….and Hillary Clinton hypocrisy on fracking…and climate change

      ‘Hillary Clinton And Climate Change: Pro-Fracking Businessman Hosts Clinton Fundraiser In Colorado’


      “Under Clinton, the U.S. State Department was a major proponent of fracking, and her campaign has benefited from millions of dollars from donors connected to the oil and gas industry, according to a recent report from Greenpeace. By some estimates, Clinton raised at least $650,000 at the fundraiser with Souki, based on the number of people in attendance and the price of admission…

      ‘Does Hillary Clinton support fracking?’


      …”We found instances of Clinton and the State Department talking up fracking to Latin America, the European Union, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Bulgaria, Pakistan, China and India.

      “The United States will promote the use of shale gas. Now, I know that in some places is controversial. But natural gas is the cleanest fossil fuel available for power generation today, and a number of countries in the Americas may have shale gas resources,” Clinton said in a 2009 speech to the Inter-American Development Bank.

      After Clinton left the State Department in 2013, she continued to support fracking but repeatedly called for “smart regulations” in speeches and in her book, Hard Choices.

      …Sanders said that Clinton supported and continues “to support fracking.”

      As secretary of state, Clinton supported and promoted fracking around the world. As a 2016 candidate, her support comes with conditions such as local choice, stronger environmental regulation and chemicals.

  18. Chooky 22

    ‘White House Watch’


    “Friday, November 04, 2016

    The presidential contest is tied again in the White House Watch survey, but Republican Donald Trump is holding on to his 10-point lead among those who’ve already made up their minds about how they will vote…

  19. Colonial Viper 23

    Nate Silver: Clinton 64.2%. Trump 35.8%

    Still a massively up hill road for Trump on Nov 8. But better now that Nate Silver predicts that bellweather Ohio will go Trump (70% chance).


    • Chooky 23.1

      yes it will be a miracle if Trump gets to beat Clinton…

      • marty mars 23.1.1

        yep tiny wee chance of a hand up to the big seat – must be meant to be.

        • Colonial Viper

          Why do you continue to abuse Trump on his physical characteristics? What the fuck is wrong with you?

          • marty mars

            wtf are you on about?

            • Colonial Viper

              ah sorry, just jumping at shadows now. Thought you were making a dig at Trump’s tiny little hands.

              • Manuka AOR

                Thought you were making a dig at Trump’s tiny little hands.

                Trump has boasted about those hands, about how he enjoys using them to grab things.

              • He seems to be worried about it – no one else except comedians are and they are only using it because he seems sensitive. Personally, body part size is really irrelevant to everything apart from self esteem maybe.

                and I have been guilty of being mean about his sensitivity to it so you probably made a fair call 🙂

              • McFlock

                Nah cv it’s all good. His political opponents did gain capital out of his small, rodent-like hands, but then he outflanked them by reassuring the nation during a primaries debate that his penis was of acceptable proportions. So it’s all good now.

                That really happened. This is where we are.

                • DeadSmurf

                  I thought that was a low moment but then remembered that he sued Bill Maher to prove his mother was not an Orangutan. Trump has serious issues that should mean no one should be taking him seriously let alone promoting his sick twisted views.

  20. adam 24

    How can trump be president, he can’t read.

  21. joe90 25

    Deplorable is deplorable.

    Kellyanne Conway was discussing the roles of women in the military on a 2013 episode of PBS’ “To the Contrary,” a roundtable discussion show featuring an all-women panel, when she made the baffling, victim-blaming declaration.

    “If we were physiologically — not mentally, emotionally, professionally — equal to men, if we were physiologically as strong as men, rape would not exist,” she said. “You would be able to defend yourself and fight him off.”


  22. Manuka AOR 26

    Voters going into the US election blind:
    For the first time in decades, Americans will likely hit the voting booths on Election Day without being able to review the tax returns of one of the major presidential nominees.
    There are many more questions about Trump’s finances and business operations that remain… He is asking Americans to vote for a man who has not revealed basic information about his wide-ranging endeavors and associations.

    Unknowns include:
    His partners: From Newsweek: “The dealings of the Trump Organization reach into so many countries that it is impossible to detail all the conflicts they present “

    Huge Loans from foreign banks: major US banks stopped doing business with him. But foreign banks picked up the slack There are hundreds of millions of dollars of debt.

    His creditors: At the first presidential debate, moderator Lester Holt asked Trump about his finances: “Don’t Americans have a right to know if there are any conflicts of interest?” Trump replied, “I could give you a list of banks. He did not produce that list.

    Trump University: There are three pending cases alleging fraud on the part of Trump’s for-profit school.

    His lawsuits: Trump has frequently threatened to sue the media and others (including the women who have accused him of sexual assault). But, as USA Today reported, Trump is already engaged in dozens of lawsuits … that remain open.

    His net worth and income: NYT “After expenses, some of his businesses make a small fraction of what he reported on his disclosure forms, or actually lose money. “

    Trump, who is aiming to be perhaps the most powerful man in the world, wanted to keep much of his life secret before Americans voted. He succeeded in doing so.

  23. Andre 27

    I’m a bad bad man. Just deplorable, appearance-shaming someone like this. Even if he did do it to himself, that’s no excuse.


  24. Manuka AOR 30

    Jane Doe/ “Katie Johnson” has withdrawn her case, apparently.

    I can understand that.


    • Chooky 30.1

      Jane Doe ‘s case was “unsubstantiated” and suspect according to The Guardian

      ( and remember the false accusations of rape against Colonel Gaddafi?

      http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2016/01/06/new-hillary-emails-reveal-true-motive-for-libya-intervention/ )

      From The Guardian:

      ‘Woman accusing Donald Trump of raping her at 13 cancels plan to go public’


      …”The allegations have received less media attention than other claims of sexual assaults by Trump partly because they appeared to have been orchestrated by an eccentric anti-Trump campaigner with a record of making outlandish claims about celebrities.

      A Guardian investigation this summer found that Norm Lubow, a former producer on the Jerry Springer TV show, has been associated in the past with a range of disputed claims involving the likes of OJ Simpson and Kurt Cobain…

      A Guardian investigation in July found that a publicist calling himself “Al Taylor” attempted to sell a videotape of Doe relating her allegations for $1m. It linked Taylor through a variety of means including shared email addresses and phone numbers to Lubow, formerly of Springer’s daytime talk show.

      Lubow was connected to a contentious claim, raised in the 1998 documentary movie Kurt and Courtney, that Courtney Love offered a fellow musician $50,000 to murder her husband, Kurt Cobain of Nirvana. Love denied the charge.

      According to the New York Post, Lubow was also behind a tabloid newspaper story that OJ Simpson bought illicit drugs on the day his estranged wife Nicole Brown was killed.

      When the Guardian quizzed “Al Taylor” about his true identity, the publicist replied: “Just be warned, we’ll sue you if we don’t like what you write. We’ll sue your ass, own your ass and own your newspaper’s ass as well, punk.”

  25. AsleepWhileWalking 31

    Someone else OTHER than Infowars with good discussion around the weird Satanic/sexual/semen/children rituals.

    I like Stefan Molyneux. Intelligent and good critical thinking.


    • Andre 31.1

      I just googled Stefan Molyneux. The results were … ahem…interesting.

      • Manuka AOR 31.1.1

        Good grief. All the world’s problems are caused by women.

        • rhinocrates

          Joe90 at quotes the Malleus Maleficarum, apparently satirically. Seems the Trump campaign is now covered by Poe’s Law.

          • Manuka AOR

            Molyneux was a panelist at a 2014 Detroit conference held by the men’s rights movement and manosphere organization, A Voice for Men.

            According to Jessica Roy of Time Magazine Molyneux argued that violence in the world is the result of how women treat their children, and that “If we could just get people to be nice to their babies for five years straight, that would be it for war, drug abuse, addiction, promiscuity, sexually transmitted diseases, … Almost all would be completely eliminated, because they all arise from dysfunctional early childhood experiences, which are all run by women.”[41] (my emph)

    • rhinocrates 31.2

      “Vox Day” aka Theodore Beale. Well-known Neo Nazi science fiction writer (some may have heard of the Rabid Puppies) and rabid misogynist. I won’t bother with his views on race – you can guess what those are. Great source… no, not really.


      Day describes himself as a Christian nationalist.[64] Milo Yiannopoulos, writing for the right-wing conservative network Breitbart, called Vox Day an “alt-right figurehead”.[65] Writing for Publishers Weekly, Kimberly Winston described Day as a “fundamentalist Southern Baptist”,[18] but other journalists have made more pointed characterizations, such as Mike VanHelder’s assertion in Popular Science that Day’s views are “white supremacist.”[66] Similarly, an article by Jeet Heer in The New Republic says that Day “has written that women should be deprived of the vote”,[67] an interpretation of comments in Day’s article “Why Women’s Rights are Wrong.” Day also engages in social and political debates in the media as an alt-right representative.[68]

      • Manuka AOR 31.2.1

        women should be deprived of the vote”,[67] an interpretation of comments in Day’s article “Why Women’s Rights are Wrong.”

        I guess he does have some problems with a woman as President, then.

        • rhinocrates

          BTW, George R R Martin has described Beale as an “asshole.” 🙂

          • Manuka AOR

            This election has caused all the scum to rise to the surface and bubble away as it putrefies.

    • Manuka AOR 31.3

      Cernovich – began the rumour that Hillary is not well, that she has a “grave neurological condition” . See “Trolls for Trump”:

    • Chooky 31.4

      @ AsleepWhileWalking …yes it is almost unbelievable, particularly given the accusations thrown at Trump

      …but there are multiple sources out there that at least Bill Clinton was involved and possibly Hillary

      ….time will tell as the FBI material from Weiner is exposed and sees the light of day

      ( see utube : Dr Steve Pieczenik – Hillary Clinton May FACE CHARGES in Pedophilia Ring )

  26. Chooky 32

    ‘Assange: Clinton resisted FBI, and now they’re out for payback (FULL JOHN PILGER EXCLUSIVE)’


    ….“Libya more that anyone else’s war was Hillary Clinton’s war. Barack Obama initially opposed it. Who was the person who was championing it? Hillary Clinton. That’s documented throughout her emails,” Assange said.

    “There’s more than 1,700 emails out of the 33,000 of Hillary Clinton’s emails we published just about Libya. It’s not about that Libya has cheap oil. She perceived the removal of Gaddafi and the overthrow of the Libyan state something that she would use to run in the general election for president. So late 2011, there’s an internal document called the “Libya Tick Tock” that is produced for Hillary Clinton, and it’s all the… it’s a chronological description of how Hillary Clinton was the central figure in the destruction of the Libyan state.”

    But the scheme not only failed on a personal level, after Clinton was largely blamed for allowing a jihadist ransacking of a US compound in Benghazi in 2012, but also continues to haunt the country, which remains in a state of civil war, and Europe.

    “As a result, there [have been] around 40,000 deaths within Libya. Jihadists moved in, ISIS moved in. That led to the European refugee and migrant crisis, because not only did you have people fleeing Libya, people then fleeing Syria, destabilization of other African countries as a result of arms flows,” said Assange…

  27. Andre 33

    Sean Hannity or teenage Macedonian troll? Take the test (I got 5/10, may as well have flipped a coin for each question).


  28. rhinocrates 34

    A quick vid on the shifting demographics of America:


    The United States is no longer a majority white, Christian country, and that is already beginning to have profound social and political implications. At 45 percent of the population, white Christians are a shrinking demographic—and the backlash from many members of the group against the increasing diversification of America has been swift and bitter. “People fight like that when they are losing a sense of place, a sense of belonging, and a sense of the country that they understand and love,” says Robert P. Jones, the author of The End of White Christian America, in this animated interview. “How do they reengage in public life when they can’t be the majority?”
    Authors: Daniel Lombroso, Caitlin Cadieux

  29. Manuka AOR 35

    ‘Fascists decide you’re a criminal — then they find the crime’

    Bill Maher – final vid before election:

    Talk about impeaching her? She hasn’t been elected yet! Fascists decide you’re a criminal — then they find the crime. This is what they’ve done with Hillary Clinton. The big lie! Trump is out there every day saying she’s under criminal investigation. No, she’s not. The emails are not a crime. And they haven’t found anything on Anthony Weiner’s d*ck-smorgasbord.”

    Maher explained the political environment has gotten so bad that the idea of a political rally in which the attendees are shouting “lock her up” or “execute her” is the norm, it has gone too far.

    “You’ve gotten to the point where like Rwanda was in the 90s,” Maher continued. “Where ‘the other’ is such vermin like Hitler called the Jews and the Slaves. That when you take power you’re doing God’s work by eliminating your enemies. That’s where we are.”

    • Colonial Viper 35.1

      There is a prima facie case to be answered that the Clintons and/or their aides have committed a massive amount of criminality in and outside of office.

      To determine whether or not their actions were in fact criminal, the Department of Justice would need to empanel grand juries to go through the evidence gathered to date.

      • Manuka AOR 35.1.1

        Here’s CV’s authority:

        • Colonial Viper

          If you want mainstream authority try this:

          Wikileaks: independent Clinton Foundation legal review says Foundation is significantly out of compliance with the law and with standards for non-profits, to the extent that the future of the Foundation is threatened because Bill Clinton refuses to agree to changes.

          Urgent fixes recommended.

          (McFlock please remind me how clean and shiny the Clinton Foundation is? Looks like they fooled the outside reviewers but not the insiders)


          • Manuka AOR

            Thanks CV 😀
            Particularly like this bit: Urgent fixes recommended.

          • McFlock

            You don’t need reminding of anything.

            You’re obsessively blinkered, not suffering from amnesia.

            But it was fun reading the zerohedge link, especially the bits they chose not to highlight, and watching the slide as you overegg their already overegged interpretation. I’ve read a couple of similar reports in my time, no biggee.

            But you’ll note that I referred to percentage of donations going to actual aid projects rather than administration, not whether the foundation was adequately and sustainably structured if WJC dropped dead (at my current workplace we call it “hit by a bus contingencies”).

        • North

          That’s not Alex……..that’s CV.

  30. Richard Rawshark 36

    CV, you’ve been locked in here for days.. You ok? or should I throw you a rope?

    • Colonial Viper 36.1

      Chur dude lol. I’m sure the fever will break in about 3 days…!

      • Richard Rawshark 36.1.1

        3 days..jeez getting close, got rope on standby to haul you out of this ..hole.

        In case it goes pear shaped and they all decide fuck it and vote Greens..

        Might need paramedics too if that happens.

        • Colonial Viper

          Most kind mate your thoughts are appreciated…personally I am sure that a medicinal Guinness will do the trick 😀

  31. Richard Rawshark 38

    I’ve heard you lot arguing Clinton/Trump for fkn days..


    Read/watch this then STFU

    The point she makes ends all your arguing..

    • Andre 38.1

      She’s also clearly a slow learner, and didn’t find any lesson in the Bush-Gore_Nader debacle.

      • Colonial Viper 38.1.1

        The lesson from that is that Gore, and the US voting public was so disgusted with Bill Clinton’s behaviour in office, the drag on the Democratic race was fatal.

        The Democrats then mismanaged the electoral legal challenges in Florida letting the Repubs win.

        And over that whole process we got to watch the Democratic machine crush/scapegoat Nader in exactly the same style they did to Sanders more than a decade later.

        • Andre

          Someday I’ll be curious to hear your explanation of why the interests of a Nader voter were better served by Bush than they would have been by a Gore presidency.

          Coz my friends and rellies that naively voted Nader are still deeply embarrassed about it, 16 years later.

          • Colonial Viper

            Maybe you should ask Al Gore why it was so toxic for him to appear with Bill Clinton that campaign, and why the Democrats cynically put the cause of their own multiple political failures on Ralph Nader.

            • Andre

              Can’t answer the question of why the interests of a Nader voter were better served by Bush than they would have been by a Gore presidency?

              • Colonial Viper

                The Dems deserved to lose that election. They then blamed their failure on everyone else. And now, not having learnt a thing, they are pushing Hillary in a similar way.

                • Andre

                  Still nothing on how the interests of a Nader voter were better served by Bush than a Gore presidency?

                  Haven’t you got anything more than divert, divert, divert, divert?

                  • Colonial Viper

                    I’m pointing to the core of the Democratic failure in 2000 while you are pointing to the scapegoat Nader.

                    So it seems clear who is interested in diversion here.

                    • Andre

                      How were the interests of a Nader voter better served by Bush than they would have been by a Gore presidency?

                      That’s a totally relevant question for anyone who voted for Nader, and it has lessons for anyone considering voting for Stein. It’s a totally separate issue to the many other reasons Gore lost.

                      Now, have you got anything in answer to the question? Or is it just too inconvenient to your narrative that you will just continue to divert?

          • One Two

            ‘…still deeply embarrassed about it 16 years later…’

            You’ve mentioned your family political issues previously, and at that time I understood why you are stuck in the same loop


    • Colonial Viper 38.2

      And Susan Sarandon isn’t the only smart one with good judgement:

      Why I Can No Longer Support Hillary Clinton

      Bernie Sanders was treated horribly by the DNC, the Clinton crew, and the Obama administration, and by proxy, many of us were also stung. Without any apologies. In fact, we received nothing but contempt from the Clinton campaign and her surrogates. Then they expected us to fall in formation. Many of us did. I said I would endorse Hillary if she won the primary fair and square. And I did, but that was before I got a hold of all the highly unethical things that happened to get her to win.

      I’m not telling you not to vote for her. I’m aware of what is at stake. The Supreme Court and a petulant man-child that might quicken the apocalypse, I know. I’m telling you that I’m no longer endorsing her. Vote with your conscience. Vote strategically. Or don’t. It’s your prerogative.

      I’ve seen how our heroes, activists, journalists, and celebrities have completely sold their souls to support something no person with an iota of morality would do. I’ve seen them say and do things to derail candidates who would have been a million times better for those less fortunate around us. It’s unfortunate most pretend to fight the establishment, to act like they love the people more than they love the struggle and the relevance that it brings them. I am not one of those and I won’t continue to be until the good Lord takes me.


  32. Andre 39

    Trump joins Reagan and GHW Bush in the 1980 primary debates.

  33. Colonial Viper 40

    Trump campaigns in four states, coast to coast, today

    1) Tampa, Florida.
    2) Wilmington, North Carolina.
    3) Reno, Nevada.
    4) Denver, Colorado.

  34. Manuka AOR 42

    Reminder, here is what Bernie wrote a month ago:
    Four Reasons to Say “NO” to Donald Trump

    One: At a time of massive income and wealth inequality, we must not elect a president who wants to resurrect the failed trickle-down economics of the past. When the very rich are becoming much richer and there has been a 10-fold increase in the number of billionaires since the year 2000, it is economic insanity to propose, as Trump has, hundreds of billions in tax breaks to the top 1 percent. His proposal to scrap the estate tax would provide a $53 billion tax break to the wealthiest family in America, the Waltons of Wal-Mart. And guess who else would benefit? Trump’s proposal would provide a $4 billion tax break to Trump’s own family.

    Two: Climate change is real, it is caused by human activity and it is already creating devastating problems in our country and around the world. Unbelievably, despite the virtually-unanimous consensus of the scientific community that climate change is the greatest environmental crisis our planet faces, Donald Trump believes that climate change is a “hoax” perpetrated by China.

    Three: Our nation has struggled for centuries to combat racism, sexism and other forms of discrimination. Sadly, Trump has made bigotry the cornerstone of his campaign. We simply cannot, in the year 2016, turn back the clock

    Four: Almost every objective observer has concluded that Donald Trump has taken lies and distortions to a whole new level. I don’t often quote Mitt Romney, but the former Republican presidential candidate was right when he called Trump a “fraud” and a “phony.”

    • Colonial Viper 42.1

      Bernie says you can’t rely on trusting Clinton once you vote her in

      Supporters have balked at a Sanders who supports Hillary Clinton, as she embodies the corruption and corporate influences that have transformed democracy in this country into an oligarchy. Sanders campaign events on behalf of Clinton have received poor attendance from supporters, especially in comparison to the rallies he held during his own campaign.

      Rather than delay holding Clinton accountable to progressive ideals until she’s safely in the White House, Sanders has recently emphasized the importance of pushing her to do the right thing, as she can’t be trusted to do so otherwise. “This is not trust. We are not here to trust,” Sanders said in a recent interview with NowThis. “It is the very opposite of what I am saying, ‘oh, sit back, elect Clinton, and then trust.’


  35. Andre 43

    Be afraid. The TPP zombie might still erupt out of the grave.


  36. rhinocrates 44

    Dispassionately, I’d congratulate Putin. He’s very good at his job of advancing Russian interests and is justifiably popular in Russia as a result.


    “Buyer’s remorse”! Ha ha.

    The technique is called ‘Maskirovka’ or ‘Masked War’ literally, usually called ‘Hybrid War’ in English (complementing ‘Managed Democracy’ at home).





    On Vladislav Surkov, who is a sort of Hubertus Bigend of politics (an imaginary chocolate fish for anyone who gets the reference). He is often credited with formulating much of the doctrine and practice of Hybrid War and Managed Democracy:



    The Baltic states are particularly worried.


    Orban doesn’t like immigrants and really likes walls.

    “Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy’s resistance without fighting.” — Sun Tzu, The Art of War

    And so on. The key to this “riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma,” as Churchill put it, is Russian self interest. With the Warsaw Pact long defunct, undermining Western alliances and NATO in particular while establishing a buffer on the West is Putin’s primary goal. Remember, invading Russia is about the stupidest thing you can do, but it does tend to happen and at tremendous cost. Putin was born and raised in Leningrad, seeing the aftermath of the siege. Couple that with resentment at the withering of the Russian (and later Soviet) Empire you don’t have a motive, you have an imperative.

    As he says himself:

    People in Russia say that those who do not regret the collapse of the Soviet Union have no heart, and those that do regret it have no brain. We do not regret this, we simply state the fact and know that we need to look ahead, not backwards. We will not allow the past to drag us down and stop us from moving ahead. We understand where we should move. But we must act based on a clear understanding of what happened..
    Interview with German television channel ARD and ZDF, May 2005

    And feels quite justified in foreign meddling (“But Obama, but Hillary…”):

    Not everyone likes the stable, gradual rise of our country. There are some who are using the democratic ideology to interfere in our internal affairs.


    This article also refers to his reaction to the stationing of NATO missiles uncomfortably close to Russian borders.

    He knows what he’s doing, he’s very smart and he’s a Russian patriot, not a global philanthropist.

    • ianmac 46.1

      The catch with the Dunning-Kruger Effect Sacha is that it presupposes that people analyse the positions made by politicians and vote according to the “score.”
      Not sure what most people do vote for but the cut of the politician’s jib must be a big factor. Think Key.
      If we were to question the attendees at a National (or Labour) Conference their reasons for voting they might come up with rational reasons because they are the “insiders.”
      But ask my mother-in-law why she votes as she does and you will get a very vague response. It is important to her that she belongs to a tribe rather than the detail and implications of policy.
      I cannot spell out specifics of why I vote Leftish nor why I wouldn’t vote Rightish.

  37. Manuka AOR 47

    Pharrell Williams just gave the single most compelling speech of this election. I believe it will become iconic, like MLK’s ‘I have a dream’.

  38. Chooky 48

    ‘Assange: Clinton is a cog for Goldman Sachs & the Saudis (JOHN PILGER EXCLUSIVE VIDEO & TRANSCRIPT)’

    Published time: 5 Nov, 2016 05:59
    Edited time: 5 Nov, 2016 21:53


  39. ianmac 50

    You might be right Manuka AOR. Great content from Pharell and Bernie. Be interesting if the promises from Clinton become reality. Pharrell and Bernie will be able to hold her to her promises but heaven help her if it was just rhetoric! Especially in 4 years.
    Funny but the first two seemed to be more credible and invited greater response than did Clinton. Mmmm?

    • Manuka AOR 50.1

      Sorry Ian, but it’s as if we watched different vids, – the one I’ve seen (above) – invited response continually through her talk, and the responses were immediate and enthusiastic. She is talking to North Carolina and she speaks to them.

      Early on she spent some time thanking and acknowledging Bernie, and then Pharrell. And referenced others who are running for the Dems in NC. She also looks much happier, I thought, than she did earlier on, and more relaxed. She has run a long and very demanding campaign, against a horrendous opponent who has no limits in what he will stoop to. And she’s still going strong, in fact she seems more inspiring now than she ever did at the start (to me anyway).

      Parts were riveting, – eg on the Central Park Five. I’d never understood that so clearly before.

    • Manuka AOR 50.2

      I owe you, ianmac, bigtime!
      Until I read your comment, I had not taken the time to listen all the way through Hillary’s speech, thinking it would be generally, ‘more of the same’. Thanks to your comment, I went through it all, and now I feel as though a weight has lifted off my shoulders. Rightly or wrongly, I am no longer worried about the presidency. Hillary, I believe, is already there.

      • One Two 50.2.1

        Despite Clintons decades long history of lying, and caught out being a serial or even pathalogical liar…

        Why do you believe she is “already there”?

        The weight you mention being lifted…that’s you being fooled by a pathalogical liar!

        • marty mars

          why is what you said different to what you haarp on at me about? is it less fucks and stuff?

          • One Two

            Do you genuinely not understand the difference?

            • McFlock

              Are you genuinely incapable of specifying either of the things that you wish us to compare?

              • One Two

                The response was to Marty, who I believe can understand the difference between my comments, and the emotive abuse he has been flinging towards CV in particular

                There was no signal for you to get involved

                • McFlock


                  Hey, as part of your audience on a public forum, I genuinely didn’t know whether you were talking about the difference between trump and HRC, or the difference between how you addressed Manuka and how marty feels you address them… I certainly didn’t pick that you were comparing your comments with how marty adresses CV.

                  Well, as further unsolicted response, I’d say that Marty is generally direct, precise, and down to earth in their comments. Your comments, on the other hand, are vague, pretentious, imprecise, and swaddled in arrogance.

                  • One Two

                    Then perhaps try being more considered before interjecting yourself in a conversation that did not involve you…saves energy on having to make excuses

                    Good form though, to arrogantly push on and offer further unsolicited response, by way of comment assessment….Consistency is measured regardless of the output quality so perhaps ISO9000 would be a more apt handle for you….

                    Lack of self control over your own ‘unsolicited’ impulses in response removes credence from any evaluation you tendered …not that there is any, and not that it will bother you….

                    • Pasupial

                      One Two
                      Before you berate McFlock for; “interjecting yourself in a conversation that did not involve you”, perhaps you should consider that this is exactly what your comment (@ 50.2.1) did with the conversation between Manuka AOR and ianmac. As McFlock points out; this is a public forum, if you want to have a conversation here then expect others to participate.

                    • One Two []

                      It’s not at all the same thing…

                      McFlock took it upon himself to reply to my question that was clearly directed to Marty Mars…it was not for McFlock

                      I had a query for Manuka, and so I asked a question, to Manuka…

                      Manuka provided a response to the question…no-one else interjected on Manukas behalf

                      Your evaluation is substandard and there is no excuse for misunderstanding the difference between the two circumstances….

                    • + 1 I rate McFlock’s comments and interjections highly.

                      It can be challenging cutting into a conversation – but so so essential sometimes, besides there’s stuff ‘I’ want to say…

                      edit – looking at the sub thread – I cut in to ask one two a question – pretty well cutting in is what we do…

                    • McFlock


                      I had a query for onetwo, and so I asked a question to onetwo…

            • marty mars

              It was a genuine question.

              edit – I see it seems like the ’emotion’ is the issue and maybe swear words? I make zero apology for being emotional about some things and allowing that emotion to come forth in my comments. To me it is more honest than pretending. And I LIKE swearing, I mean I really like it – especially if I can be slightly witty or excruciatingly cutting. Swearing by itself is worthless.

              edit again. cv is a total dickhead shit stirring not as smart as he thinks commenter and poster. Apart from all that we do have some things in common ie we are both from otaaaaago. And we have been crossing swords and sometimes, rarely it has to be said now, backing each other up on this forum for years.

              • Colonial Viper

                And I LIKE swearing, I mean I really like it – especially if I can be slightly witty or excruciatingly cutting. Swearing by itself is worthless.

                edit again. cv is a total dickhead shit stirring not as smart as he thinks commenter and poster.

                Sad to see you sink lower and lower in terms of pointless personal abuse, marty mars. Maybe you think it to be “slightly witty” or “excruciatingly cutting.”

                In reality this is nothing but a classic example of left wing bullying. Cloaked in a paper thin excuse of moral self righteousness/cleverness.

                I wasn’t even involved in this conversation thread FFS and you couldn’t help yourself.

                • I was talking about you not to you – and your outrage is fake – you love being the centre of attention – always have

                • Manuka AOR

                  a classic example of left wing bullying

                  CV, get a grip – Marty was backhandedly complimenting you and underscoring your valid role here (despite that some of us may loathe what you say and seem to stand for). His comment reminded me of that, then you scrub it. gaaaghhh

                  edit: I wrote that before I saw that Marty had replied

                  • You are correct – I wasn’t trying to fire up the bear but instead mention the long commenting history that sometimes occurs here.

                    Thanks for your comment/s Manuka AOR, especially on the us election threads.

              • One Two

                Marty, I read your passion in comments you make on other subjects and it is honest, and some of the best reading on here IMO. Especially around Maori issues, I’ve certainly learned and gained insight from many of your comments

                There is nothing honest , however in throwing insults and abuse about the US election, as a subject which seems to have raised the ire of yourself and numerous others who comment here

                Arguing over the sham that is the US elections. A system so rotton, so fraudulant and corrupt that DT and HC are the choices ‘given’ and they’re worth thowing insults at eachother over?

                The system owners have the cattle on a string if this blog is anything to go by….

                Anyway, Marty. All the best and take it easy

        • Manuka AOR

          Why do you believe she is “already there”?

          Well, if Alex Jones’ insane ravings can be excused as him being “a poet at heart” (ref an earlier comment in this post), then I, too, may use poetic license to answer you.

          While I was listening to that video, I felt as if the spirits of earlier US leaders and teachers were there with Pharrell, Bernie and Hillary. These included MLK, Rosa Parks and Eleanor Roosevelt, and even old Abe Lincoln.

          Remember, this is solely and purely my use of poetic license, to answer your question.

  40. Andre 51

    How decent ordinary people live with themselves after voting Trump.


  41. From the Podesta emails, and related.

    Would love to get a pizza for an hour? Or come over

    The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related. Is it yorus?

    Do you think I’ll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta?

    I think Obama spent about $65,000 of the tax-payers money flying in pizza/dogs from Chicago for a private party at the White House not long ago, assume we are using the same channels?

    In the pasta game changer put us in a position to help both parties and gave them incentives.

    The Israeli side wants the blockade to remain in force, though in a more liberal form. Pasta and much more will be let into the Strip, but under strict supervision.

    An American senator raised hell when he found out that pasta was considered a security risk and not allowed in.


  42. Andre 54

    In three days it will all be over. Whether it’s Clinton, Trump, Chthulhu, Giant Meteor or whatever, it will be some kind of relief.

    But I will miss the SNL skits.


    • Richard Rawshark 54.1

      hmm whoever wins, there will be more…SNL, don’t panic.. these two have enough..lack of appeal, to give SNL a lifetime of comedy.

  43. Manuka AOR 55

    As bitter and fearful and bloody awful as this run-up to the election has been, there have been others that were worse. Some may remember the shooting of Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy, during the 1968 primaries. Much earlier, in 1804, Thomas Jefferson’s Vice President Aaron Burr fought a duel with a political opponent, Alexander Hamilton, mortally wounding him. Charged with murder, he had to flee.

    There was even a precursor to today’s Trump mob:

    Trump may have plumbed the depths of vulgarity, sleaze and pig-ignorance, but he is anticipated by the politics of the 1850s, in the decade before Abraham Lincoln’s presidency. Not many now remember Millard Fillmore or his supporters, the self-styled “Know Nothings”, but these wild patriots, the forefathers of the angry white males who chant “lock her up”, prefigure many aspects of the Trump campaign, promising to “purify” American politics.

    The Know Nothings exploited popular fears that the country was being overwhelmed by immigrants, who were seen as enemies of the republic and, more sinister still, controlled by the pope. The party was most active from 1854 to 1856 and had a champion in Fillmore (one of the worst US presidents). Lincoln himself wrote to a friend, “I am not a Know Nothing. How could I be? … Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that ‘All men are created equal’ … When the Know Nothings get control, it will read ‘All men are created equal, except negroes and foreigners and Catholics.’”

  44. joe90 56

    Yesterday Rudy Giuliani said that FBI insiders leaked to the Trump campaign, but if he did say that, that was wrong.

    “If I did say that, that was wrong,” he said. “I have not spoken to an on-duty FBI agent about anything I guess for the last 10 months. I’ve actually never talked about this investigation to any current member of the Justice Department or FBI agent.”


  45. Macro 57

    We need to get back to basics in this election. And the the First Dog is the one to do it!

  46. joe90 58

    Clinton gets Jay Z, Beyonce, Katy Perry, and Lebron and the best the tiny fisted fascist can do is a pants-shitting, draft-dodging alleged child sex offender.

    ALERT: Motor City Madman @TedNugent to join @realDonaldTrump at Sunday evening rally in Sterling Heights, according to a Trump spokesman.— Chad Livengood (@ChadLivengood) November 6, 2016

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