web analytics

Vote for NZ Labour if…

Written By: - Date published: 1:00 pm, August 30th, 2017 - 53 comments
Categories: business, capitalism, Economy, election 2017, Globalisation, jacinda ardern, labour, liberalism, political parties, politicans - Tags: ,

NZ Labour have said they will seek to renegotiate foreign sales before accepting the TPPA. They’ve been silent on the investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) provisions (y’know, the mechanism whereby legislation around the likes of environmental protection or social welfare can be a cash cows for companies claiming compensation for potential loss of profit). And they will not state a willingness to “walk away”.

Anyway, putting aside an apparent acceptance of the ISDS process, there’s a couple of hoary or thorny problems with NZ Labour’s stand.

While they seem to be claiming that placing restrictions on over-seas buyers into the TPPA would alleviate some problems around property markets, Phil “Chinese Surname” Twyford has previously claimed Chinese buyers account for nearly 40% of house sales.

And China isn’t a party to the TPPA.

Then there’s the small detail that successfully re-negotiating anything in the TPPA, while theoretically possible, is extremely unlikely. All parties to the Agreement must agree to any changes, and since the whole damned thing is predicated on gaining various advantages, then…yeah.

I’ve also got a vague impression (though I’d have to check up on this) that no party to the Agreement can be disadvantaged in relation to arrangements any party to the Agreement may have with other non – signatories.

If I’m correct on that front, then NZ Labour would have to renegotiate provisions within the China Free Trade Deal too. And if I’m wrong on that front, then the question still remains as to why any signatory to the TPPA would give up a provision that’s enjoyed by a non-signatory.

Anyway. Here’s a link to Jacinda Arderns “bottom lines” from 2015 (the comments say it all) and here’s another to a “we see this as critical to NZ” videoed interview from eight days ago.

(It ought to be noted in relation to what Ardern says in the linked video, that Australia already had restrictions on foreign buyers and it simply didn’t cede those restrictions when negotiating the Agreement. And that’s entirely different to NZ Labour “thinking” it “should” get a second bite at the cherry)

53 comments on “Vote for NZ Labour if… ”

  1. tracey 1

    This is a problem but if Labour is in with Greens and NZF will this get bartered away?

    • Bill 1.1

      I’d say that the more the balance tips to having the Maori Party, Mana, The Greens and even TOPs influence in government, the more pressure NZ Labour will feel ‘in the house’ over the TPPA.

      But I’m not daft.

      If a vote is required, I’d pick they’d team up with National if need be.

  2. What you’ve done there Bill is describe why FTAs simply don’t work and make things more complex without any benefit and we lose control of our own nation.

    Far better for nations to declare standards that other nations need to meet before they will trade with them. Then they’d still be able to set their own rules.

    It’s time that we demand that the politicians remove us from ALL FTAs and start charting our own course.

    • DTB , … hit the nail on the head.

      The whole deal regarding FTA ‘s may bring in cheap commodities in return and provide for export markets , but the effect of that entrenches falling wages by having to compete with lower waged economy’s, smaller businesses that cannot compete are forced to close,… it is the very recipe for reinforcing and enabling the neo liberal framework.

      The lack of trade tariffs, regulations to protect our businesses, legislation designed to dismantle any real power of Trade Unions all goes hand in hand with FTA’s and the FIRE economy. And while the immediate benefits may be obvious for some sectors , the long term widespread economic erosion and general lowering of living standards becomes more and more entrenched the longer one stays in those agreements.

  3. Enough is Enough 3

    Simple Solution – vote Green

  4. Ad 4

    What’s the Green Party view on TPP?

    • Bill 4.1

      Against. As are NZF, as are the Maori Party. TOPs would logically be against it given their policies and even allowing for the fact they’re a Liberal party. And I’d guess Mana are against it too.

      • Ad 4.1.1

        I see that now on their site.

        “Fair, safe and environmentally sustainable trade…” is their phrasing.

        We’re always going to need rule-based orders to our trade. We’re too small and weak not to.

        My personal beef with TPP is how weak it is for dairy.

        • tracey 4.1.1.1

          Your beef ought to be about a small number of commercial lawyers (appointed by multi nationals) making decisions on disagreements in a private forum with no release of decision required.

          • Ad 4.1.1.1.1

            Process is one thing. It’s how you make sausage.

            The outcome matters to me more.

            • tracey 4.1.1.1.1.1

              Yes I know you are an ends justify the means guy. Just be careful what you wish for Prince.

      • mikesh 4.1.2

        ToP don´t seem to have a stated policy on it, but I would think that they would be in favour.

  5. weka 5

    Good to see a post on this. Kind of odd it’s not an election issue, maybe lots of people assume it’s dead.

    “Anyway, putting aside an apparent acceptance of the ISDS process,”

    I thought Ardern in that FB post said it was one of their bottom lines to renegotiate,

    e.g. “Corporations cannot successfully sue the Government for regulating in the public interest”

    It’s been a long time since I looked at it closely though.

    • tracey 5.1

      I cannot see that being renegtiable IF businesses remain involved in discussions

    • Bill 5.2

      The facebook post was put up before the TPP was signed. NZ Labour didn’t want it signed if corporations could “sue the Government for regulating in the public interest”.

      Well. They can and it was.

      And besides. Who would decide what “in the public interest” is, and whether any given piece of regulation met the bar, and even whether such a consideration was permissible and actually taken into account when arriving at decisions?

      Well, that would be the ISDS panel.

      Meaning that – NZ Labour, had they been negotiating, could have come back waving a piece of paper about “public interest” and it have had no effect whatsoever on ISDS considerations. (Not that we’d actually know one way or the other given the deep bunker of secrecy and unaccountability the whole process is housed within)

  6. red-blooded 6

    Bill, if you don’t want the TTPA and you’re pretty sure Labour won’t be given a chance to renegotiate things it’s unhappy with, then surely there’s no problem? Labour’s said they won’t back it as is – you’re saying they won’t be able to change it, ergo – they won’t sign it.

    Plus, the whole “Simple solution – vote Green” argument only works if you think the Greens are going to be in government as a majority party. How likely do you think that is?

    • How likely do you think that is?

      A whole lot better if everyone who’s concerned with how things are votes for the Greens rather than the Other Centre-Right Party.

      • NewsFlash 6.1.1

        Draco

        There simply isn’t enough Kiwi’s on the far left to gain a majority support in a democracy, that’s the reality, you can dream about it if you like, but at the present time you need to accept that the Greens can only play a support role in any future Govt, over time, I’m sure the Green support will increase as problems like Climate change become more pronounced.

        Poverty for Labour is still on the agenda, part of the solution is a better economy with more fairly paid jobs, better education for all.

        The Greens will play a vital role in helping to steer the Govt in the right (correct) direction, but a minority party can not enforce there policies on the majority in a DEMOCRACY

        • greywarshark 6.1.1.1

          NewsFlash
          That’s an interesting idea about democracy. It must have come from a theory textbook.

        • UncookedSelachimorpha 6.1.1.2

          “part of the solution is a better economy”

          Actually – no. That is a neoliberal lie – and one which Labour, with the best of intentions, parrots repeatedly.

          We do not need a stronger economy at all, to eliminate poverty and have free education. Simple mathematics:

          Richest 10% have 60% of nation’s wealth
          Poorest 50% have 4% of nation’s wealth.

          For the poorest 50% of the population to have three times more wealth (i.e. 12% of the total), you only need very mild redistribution – the share of the top 10% would need to fall to 52%. So people like John Key would have to scrape by with $104m, instead of $120m. This can be achieved with ZERO economic growth, and three times more wealth would be a profound improvement for the poorest half.

          To achieve the same increase in wealth for the poorest 50% by economic growth – you need to grow the economy 300% – an impossible ask and environmentally damaging. And worse – most growth doesn’t go to the poorest half anyway, so the economic growth would need to be way more than 300%.

          • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.2.1

            If we did all that we’d have a better economy.

            But a few rich people wouldn’t be quite as rich and so no politician, except the Greens, will go there.

            • UncookedSelachimorpha 6.1.1.2.1.1

              “If we did all that we’d have a better economy.”

              100% correct, putting money into the bottom end of town is the most useful place to put it, economically.

              To be fair to NewsFlash – I assumed they meant “economic growth” (and Labour and others do – incorrectly – go on about that). But as you say, a “Better Economy” can mean something other than growth – e.g. an economy that yields less poverty is a much better one.

              • e.g. an economy that yields less poverty is a much better one.

                True that.

                I like:
                An economic system that creates and relies upon poverty to work is a failed economic system.

                Yes, our present system relies upon poverty – just look at all the calls from the RWNJs to get rid of the minimum wage.

          • WILD KATIPO 6.1.1.2.2

            @UncookedSelachimorpha

            Bloody nice!

            … ” For the poorest 50% of the population to have three times more wealth (i.e. 12% of the total), you only need very mild redistribution – the share of the top 10% would need to fall to 52% ” …

            … ” To achieve the same increase in wealth for the poorest 50% by economic growth – you need to grow the economy 300% – an impossible ask and environmentally damaging ” …

            There you have it , – the neo liberal bullshit lies exposed.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.3

          Poverty for Labour is still on the agenda, part of the solution is a better economy with more fairly paid jobs, better education for all.

          Sounds good but they’re not doing anything to lift beneficiaries out of poverty.

          The Greens will play a vital role in helping to steer the Govt in the right (correct) direction, but a minority party can not enforce there policies on the majority in a DEMOCRACY

          And where have I ever said that they should?

          I’ve always supported democracy – rather than this elected dictatorship that we have.

      • red-blooded 6.1.2

        Draco, if you’re labelling Labour as “Centre-Right” you need to recalibrate your political judgement. I agree that Labour is closer to the centre than the Greens, but it’s very clearly a Centre-Left party. The MOU is a recognition of shared values – not identical, but complimentary – two left-wing parties agreeing to work together for the chance to form a left-wing government.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2.1

          Draco, if you’re labelling Labour as “Centre-Right” you need to recalibrate your political judgement.

          Political Compass: 2017 party settings. Looks like they’ve shifted even further to the right from 2014. It’s not too far off calling them a radical right-wing party.

          • McFlock 6.1.2.1.1

            so, yeah, if you round 35/100 up to 50/100, they’re “centre”-right 🙄

            • adam 6.1.2.1.1.1

              For someone who says they have a masters/degree/somthing, you really struggle with what constitutes socialism there McFlock.

            • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2.1.1.2

              No. Centre would be zero. Thirty five is to the right of zero.

              • McFlock

                Yes. And the scale is of twenty increments, ten to the left and ten to the right. So if each increment is of ten political gradations (so -100 is extreme left and 100 is extreme right), what would “centre-right” be?

                • Centre would be 1/3rd of 200 which is ~66. Divide that by two to get 33 as the point centre ends either side of the zero point.

                  Divide that 66 by three to get the gradations within the concept of centre. So, from ~-11 to ~11 is ‘Centre’. From ~12 to ~33 would be centre right.

                  35 would actually be right-wing.

                  Labour in 2014 was showing about 25. In 2017 they’re showing about 30.

                  So, yeah, centre-right and moving right-wards.

                  • McFlock

                    So a full third into “right wing” still counts as “centre”?

                    But that means in 2014 they were a centrist party, and yet you were calling them “centre-right” even then.

                    And that’s if we take your proposal that the “centre” is an equal portion of the political continuum, rather than a liminal point between “left” and “right”.

                    So (at best) you’ve finally found some data that can be subjectively interpreted to support your preconceived opinion. Good for you.

                    • But that means in 2014 they were a centrist party, and yet you were calling them “centre-right” even then.

                      No, they were a centre-right party. The 25 that they were at at that point was well into the 12 to 33 that would denote a centre-right party.

                      As I pointed out. Which means that at this point you’re purposefully twisting what I said.

                      So (at best) you’ve finally found some data that can be subjectively interpreted to support your preconceived opinion.

                      It’s not pre-conceived – it’s a result of what I’ve learned from studying politics and economics over the last 16 years. In 1999 I voted National.

                    • McFlock

                      Sigh.

                      Ok, missed that second bit. Fair call.

                      But your wider point is still bullshit: the “right wing” is still 0-100.
                      “Extreme right” would be say ~95, no? It’s the position within the right wing, not its proximity to zero.

                      Calling Labour “centre right” is misleading, it suggests that they’re ~50. They ain’t. Nowhere near.

          • red-blooded 6.1.2.1.2

            Draco, that site is hardly impartial. Finding someone else with your viewpoint doesn’t prove your view to be correct.

    • Bill 6.2

      Labour’s said they won’t back it as is…

      Where did they say that? When? You got a link to a direct quote? Anything?

      Do you understand the difference between not supporting something “as is” (and therefore seeking re-negotiation) and signalling an intent to walk away from something because it’s unacceptable?

      In the last link in the post, Ardern is asked if NZ Labour will walk if they fail to successfully re-negotiate aspects of the Agreement. Cue, avoidance and bluster. (Go watch it for yourself. It’s the very first question asked in a 2 min vid)

    • NewsFlash 6.3

      +1 red blooded

      Your absolutely correct, they( Labour) won’t back it as it is, and the Greens have no show of Governing on their own, sorry Green supporters, but I’m a realist, not a dreamer.

      Have another listen to Arderns response to Audrey’s questions on TPP.

      Trade IS extremely important to NZ, problem has been the Nats have failed to recognize the importance and focused only on dairy, diversify and add value to our raw products before exporting, more innovation, more jobs.

  7. Jan Rivers 7

    The Labour Party has a policy on the TPPA. It is here. http://www.labour.org.nz/our_position_on_the_tpp
    Sadly the policy cannot be found on the website under the policy heading leading me to speculate that there is a risk the final policy will be less definitive. (it’s not linked from anywhere unless you know it is there).

    However I can’t help but think that, given the enormous public opposition and disquiet, a clear statement about either letting the agreement go or substantially renegotiating the problem areas inline with the It’s Our Future’s 10 bottom lines https://itsourfuture.org.nz/ten-demands/ would create a significant electoral advantage for Labour. It’s unclear whether the missing policy is a conspiracy or a cock-up.

    The policy points are pretty solid but the recent statements I have heard recently have focussed only on the housing issue which is a bit worrying.

  8. NewsFlash 8

    I’d say

    VOTE FOR LABOUR if……… you want to CHANGE THE GOVERMENT!!!!!

    • Bill 8.1

      Would you.

      A call to arms for a change of guard is what I’d say that is.

      • red-blooded 8.1.1

        Really? Will disparaging Labour enhance the chance of the Greens playing any significant role in government, Bill?

        Thought not.

    • adam 8.2

      Change in government won’t do diddly unless their is a fundamental change in how they do government. If you bottom line is the support of liberal economics, which the labour party is via there own policy – then don’t expect much. Because…

      My guess is the little change we will get was Andrew. It will be business as usual other wise.

      So how long before disillusionment sets in, one year or two?

  9. eco Maori/kiwi 9

    We are a small country so any trade deal that are negotiated We will lose something consumer protection what ever the small country always lose.
    Like one other blogger said we would benefit more if we spent more time and money on adding value to our exports.
    We produce some of the best food and wine in the world . all that money spent on ripoff trade deals was just spent on advertising our products around the world get the world to no Who we are were we are and what we produce .
    The other country’s think we are a city or state of Australia WTF.
    Now here is a example
    Nissan there products are just as good as Toyota in my view better .
    But Toyota are the biggest car company in the world the products are the same. They both come from Japan . I will bet that Toyota out spend Nissan on advertising and market research by far Toyota have the best ads. Lets let the whole world no who we are and that we are not part of Australia . and then watch the world start chasing our products.
    Come on its not —————————

  10. Sigh 10

    This is such utter bullshit. Labour voted against the TPPA.

  11. CoroDale 11

    The psychology imposed on Govt is as follows:

    “Without acceptance of astronomical market prices, (NZ and globally) or there will be a global economic depression.”

    In NZ, National Security will consider TPPA politics relevant justification for surveillance. A housing-crash and global-depression would be considered the 1# risk factor for economic wars, going potentially hot. The era of Quantitative Easing is the perfect storm, so expect 007 and colleges to be active around TPPA.

    But best we trust the above scenario is basically fear-porn. Let the next Govt save our country by maintaining financial independence and diverse international relations.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Government and horticulture sector target $12b in exports by 2035
    A new Government and industry strategy launched today has its sights on growing the value of New Zealand’s horticultural production to $12 billion by 2035, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor said. “Our food and fibre exports are vital to New Zealand’s economic security. We’re focussed on long-term strategies that build on ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • Cost of living support extended for families and businesses
    25 cents per litre petrol excise duty cut extended to 30 June 2023 – reducing an average 60 litre tank of petrol by $17.25 Road User Charge discount will be re-introduced and continue through until 30 June Half price public transport fares extended to the end of June 2023 saving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • More Kiwis in work as rising wages match inflation
    The strong economy has attracted more people into the workforce, with a record number of New Zealanders in paid work and wages rising to help with cost of living pressures. “The Government’s economic plan is delivering on more better-paid jobs, growing wages and creating more opportunities for more New Zealanders,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Government boosts fund for Auckland flooding
    The Government is providing a further $1 million to the Mayoral Relief Fund to help communities in Auckland following flooding, Minister for Emergency Management Kieran McAnulty announced today. “Cabinet today agreed that, given the severity of the event, a further $1 million contribution be made. Cabinet wishes to be proactive ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New Cabinet focused on bread and butter issues
    The new Cabinet will be focused on core bread and butter issues like the cost of living, education, health, housing and keeping communities and businesses safe, Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has announced. “We need a greater focus on what’s in front of New Zealanders right now. The new Cabinet line ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Prime Minister to meet with PM Albanese
    Prime Minister Chris Hipkins will travel to Canberra next week for an in person meeting with Australian Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese. “The trans-Tasman relationship is New Zealand’s closest and most important, and it was crucial to me that my first overseas trip as Prime Minister was to Australia,” Chris Hipkins ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government makes first payment to Auckland Flooding fund
    The Government is providing establishment funding of $100,000 to the Mayoral Relief Fund to help communities in Auckland following flooding, Minister for Emergency Management Kieran McAnulty announced. “We moved quickly to make available this funding to support Aucklanders while the full extent of the damage is being assessed,” Kieran McAnulty ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government steps up to assist Auckland during flooding
    As the Mayor of Auckland has announced a state of emergency, the Government, through NEMA, is able to step up support for those affected by flooding in Auckland. “I’d urge people to follow the advice of authorities and check Auckland Emergency Management for the latest information. As always, the Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Poroporoaki: Titewhai Te Huia Hinewhare Harawira
    Ka papā te whatitiri, Hikohiko ana te uira, wāhi rua mai ana rā runga mai o Huruiki maunga Kua hinga te māreikura o te Nota, a Titewhai Harawira Nā reira, e te kahurangi, takoto, e moe Ka mōwai koa a Whakapara, kua uhia te Tai Tokerau e te kapua pōuri ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Enhanced Task Force Green Approved following Cyclone Hale
    Carmel Sepuloni, Minister for Social Development and Employment, has activated Enhanced Taskforce Green (ETFG) in response to flooding and damaged caused by Cyclone Hale in the Tairāwhiti region. Up to $500,000 will be made available to employ job seekers to support the clean-up. We are still investigating whether other parts ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • General Election to be held on 14 October 2023
    The 2023 General Election will be held on Saturday 14 October 2023, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced today. “Announcing the election date early in the year provides New Zealanders with certainty and has become the practice of this Government and the previous one, and I believe is best practice,” Jacinda ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announces resignation
    Jacinda Ardern has announced she will step down as Prime Minister and Leader of the Labour Party. Her resignation will take effect on the appointment of a new Prime Minister. A caucus vote to elect a new Party Leader will occur in 3 days’ time on Sunday the 22nd of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Trade and Agriculture Minister to attend World Economic Forum and Global Forum for Food and Agricult...
    The Government is maintaining its strong trade focus in 2023 with Trade and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor visiting Europe this week to discuss the role of agricultural trade in climate change and food security, WTO reform and New Zealand agricultural innovation. Damien O’Connor will travel tomorrow to Switzerland to attend the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government funding relief for flood-affected Wairarapa farmers and growers
    The Government has extended its medium-scale classification of Cyclone Hale to the Wairarapa after assessing storm damage to the eastern coastline of the region. “We’re making up to $80,000 available to the East Coast Rural Support Trust to help farmers and growers recover from the significant damage in the region,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government provides support to flooded Tairāwhiti communities
    The Government is making an initial contribution of $150,000 to the Mayoral Relief Fund to help communities in Tairāwhiti following ex-Tropical Cyclone Hale, Minister for Emergency Management Kieran McAnulty announced. “While Cyclone Hale has caused widespread heavy rain, flooding and high winds across many parts of the North Island, Tairāwhiti ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Government support for flood-affected Gisborne Tairāwhiti farmers and growers
    Rural Communities Minister Damien O’Connor has classified this week’s Cyclone Hale that caused significant flood damage across the Tairāwhiti/Gisborne District as a medium-scale adverse event, unlocking Government support for farmers and growers. “We’re making up to $100,000 available to help coordinate efforts as farmers and growers recover from the heavy ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago