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Waitangi Tribunal could exercise binding powers

Written By: - Date published: 8:05 am, August 1st, 2012 - 124 comments
Categories: privatisation - Tags:

If John Key chooses to ignore the Waitangi Tribunal and continue to foment racial division in a desperate bid to split opposition to asset sales, he may be in for a nasty surprise. The Waitangi Tribunal has noted it has the power to make binding recommendations over memoralised land. Key doesn’t think Mighty River has any memoralised land. Yes, it does.

Just as he didn’t know that that the Government is planning to spend tens of millions of dollars on paying the brokerage fess for looters and he doesn’t have a clue what the illegal looters’ bonus of free shares would cost, once again, Key has shown he’s clueless on the details of his flagship policy.

124 comments on “Waitangi Tribunal could exercise binding powers”

  1. Kotahi Tāne Huna 1

    Not just clueless on the details – completely out of his depth. Asset sales are pretty much a core National party doctrine. I know righties are supposed to be a bit thick, but this is just sloppy.

    1. Someone in National knew but didn’t tell Key, or raise it in policy discussions, not once in twelve years or,
    2. No-one in National knew, after twelve years, not a single one of them had figured this out.

    Hi, I’m with stupid.

  2. I just had a look on the LINZ system.  There are 52 titles where the proprietor is Mighty River Power Limited.  The first title that I had a look at had the section 27B memorial on it.

    Key has this habit of running off at the mouth and saying whatever is helpful for him.  His lack of respect for accuracy and the truth is so obvious.

    To all those who jumped up and down and said that the Tribunal is toothless all that I would like to say is that I await your retractions.

  3. Good post and points eddie.

    This whole process is a mummers farce (just finished the 5th book).

    How many times will this selling asset beast be pierced by arrows and still walk?

    My big worry is the Maori Party, because key will be applying the instruments of displeasure to them soon and they will not like it. They will fold into the narrative key and his minions have constructed, and before you know it they will have justified it all away. I hope my fears are unrealised..

  4. ad 4

    I am so looking forward to Maori and in particular the Treaty of Waitangi doing to Key’s career what it originally did to Muldoon on the shores of Taranaki.

    I have been particularly impressed that (apart from total nut jobs like Bob Jones) there is no massive fissure between the general public who are overwhelmingly anti-asset-sales, and Maori/Waitangi Tribunal who are becoming the main source of hope that the sales will be significantly delayed if not stopped sufficiently for the 2014 election. Might get worse, but one hopes not.

  5. tarkwin 5

    This claim is opportunistic at best, but more likely vexatious. Why did they wait so lomg to make the claim? They say J.K acted in bad faith by saying he did not have to listen to the tribunal findings yet the Maori council say they will go to court if they don’t get the answer they want. Is this not a prime example of bad faith? I call it spoiled child syndrome. Bob Jone article in the Herald yesterday hit the nail on the head. The treaty should be ripped up, it has served it’s purpose and is now just an industry run by lawyers and bludgers who are scared of life in the real world. Only then will we be able to move forward as one people. That is also the best way to stop the exodus to Oz. By the way how do you define a Maori? How much Maori blood do you need to be a Maori?

    • BM 5.1

      Without the treaty/Maori culture industry, I reckon Maori unemployment would be around 50%.

      That’s why they won’t/can’t get rid of it

      • NickS 5.1.1

        lolwut?

        Oh, you’re one of those idiots that can’t or wont understand/accept that the Crown has certain responsibilities under Te Treati O Waitangi vis land rights, and on top of that, you probably think that Maori shouldn’t be able to claim back land etc that was stolen from them, or illegally sold.

        As for the the “50%” claim, reinsert it where you got it from, namely out of your arse.

        • framu 5.1.1.1

          “you probably think that Maori shouldn’t be able to claim back land etc that was stolen from them, or illegally sold”

          aint it strange how those that scream from the hill tops that property rights is the be all and end all dont like the idea of redressing historical injustice in regards to the exact same thing

    • Kotahi Tāne Huna 5.2

      One thing treaty issues always do: bring out all the ugly redneck minority dimwits like Tarkwin and BM.

      We have a racist problem in New Zealand, but far from treating these people with the contempt they so richly deserve, the National Party courts them.

    • Carol 5.3

      Why did they wait so lomg to make the claim?

      Because the sale of assets like Mighty River Power changed the situation – it’s not opportunistic.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10823593

      While the hydro-electric plants had been publicly owned, Maori had not asserted their rights over water, but, said Mr Jones, “the moment the Government moves to privatise access rights, or make those access rights enjoy a character very close to a tradeable property right, you wake up the taniwha of Maori ancestral rights,”

      And there has been a long history of Maori claiming rights over river beds and water access:

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10820517

      Tribunal presiding officer Chief Judge Wilson Issac asked pointed questions of Crown witnesses about the reliance of the energy SOEs on these water rights. The fact is that energy SOEs, and their Government shareholder, derive significant commercial advantages from the consent regime. Yet the claimants argue that there is little quid pro quo for iwi and hapu that claim rights akin to ownership of these waterways.

      You cannot challenge Parliament’s right to enact laws such as the Resource Management Act in the courts but you can in the Waitangi Tribunal, as a breach of the Treaty.

      The unenviable position for the Crown to navigate is that there have been acknowledgments by the Government, and a legal history that recognises various forms of property rights and interests held by Maori in water. Any recommendations the tribunal makes, even if non-binding, will likely force the Crown to deal with the existing legal precedent.

    • Kotahi Tāne Huna 5.4

      You have to love the way the National Party cuddles up to these racists, stumbling around in their low-IQ ignorance and prejudice.

      The embodiment of incompetence and failure finding its place in the natural order.

      PS “Move forward as one people” – who the fuck wants to go anywhere with you, you racist loser?

      • marty mars 5.4.1

        exactly – I suppose they will get a minister to stand up and spew the one people line soon.

      • tarkwin 5.4.2

        I can tell by your stylish retort you are one of those bludgers I mentioned earlier. Abuse tends to be the refuge of cretins who lack the ability to create a rational reply. I suppose you blame the colonials for your lack of ability. Why don’t you try thinking really really hard and see if can answer some of the questions I asked or is that to hard for an early settler like yourself/

        • Kotahi Tāne Huna 5.4.2.1

          I reject the questions you asked, fool – they do nothing but reveal your ignorance of history and law, as your remarks about early settlers reveal your illiteracy.

          We have a problem with racist scum like you in New Zealand, but at least we are starting to understand more about what is wrong with you.

        • framu 5.4.2.2

          “Why did they wait so lomg to make the claim? ”

          – they didnt wait, the sale was announced which changed the nature of the relationship between the crown and iwi in regards to the issue at hand

          “They say J.K acted in bad faith by saying he did not have to listen to the tribunal findings yet the Maori council say they will go to court if they don’t get the answer they want. Is this not a prime example of bad faith?”

          – you have NFI about what bad faith means going by that description. Bad faith essentially is saying one thing than doing another – it IS NOT appealing to a higher authority if your unhappy with a result. By this logic the court of appeal and the high court should be disbanded.

          “The treaty should be ripped up, it has served it’s purpose”

          – Its an agreement between two parties – so both parties would have to agree – and they dont

          “industry run by lawyers and bludgers who are scared of life in the real world.”

          – abuse much?

          “Only then will we be able to move forward as one people.”

          – OK, i’ll forcibly evict you from your house, and prevent you or your family from receiving the proceeds – then in the future my grandkids will say to your grandkids – “whats the matter? dont you know were one people now?”

          “That is also the best way to stop the exodus to Oz.”

          – the best way would be to have a functioning economy that works for all – not an elite

          “By the way how do you define a Maori? How much Maori blood do you need to be a Maori?”

          – how do you define belonging to the family of tarkwin? – at what point do they get struck of the family tree because the blood of tarkwin does not flow strong in their veins?

          really dude – engage brainy before open mouthy – if you want to get treated like an educated adult behave like one

          • tarkwin 5.4.2.2.1

            I didn’t steal any land.

            • framu 5.4.2.2.1.1

              so…. nothing at all about the really idiotic statements you first made? nothing?

              all you got is “i didnt steal any land”?

              not even an abusive or witty retort to the answers politely given to you?

              just how weak are you?

              from the abject lameness of your response can we all assume that youve admitted that youve got many many things wrong – but just cant bring yourself to admit it?

            • Kotahi Tāne Huna 5.4.2.2.1.2

              Who cares what you did or didn’t do? I think I’ll have someone come and throw you out of your house, and then I’ll move in, and when you come crying I’ll say “I didn’t steal any land”. Luckily for you, they don’t let low IQ ignorati redefine property law every time their stupidity comes calling.

            • Draco T Bastard 5.4.2.2.1.3

              Chances are you received it though and receiving stolen goods is still illegal in NZ.

        • NickS 5.4.2.3

          I can tell by your stylish retort you are one of those bludgers I mentioned earlier. Abuse tends to be the refuge of cretins who lack the ability to create a rational reply. I suppose you blame the colonials for your lack of ability. Why don’t you try thinking really really hard and see if can answer some of the questions I asked or is that to hard for an early settler like yourself/

          The stupid, it burns.

          Plus you’re a tone troll.

          And on the “One People” thing, that’s pure high grade racist bullshit, because in practice it ignores cultures other than White-Dude culture. In NZ, it was part of the colonial BS that tried to drive Maori as a spoken language to extinction and as a dog whistle to marginalise and ignore Maori Treaty claims.

      • Pete George 5.4.3

        “– who the fuck wants to go anywhere with you, you racist loser?” is as much of a scummy spew as anything.

        Obviously ‘one people’ is a quaintly impossible goal even if it made sense – I don’t think even ‘Maori’ can be regarded as ‘one people’ – but we should at least be able to find a way to live together without resorting to abuse and swearing (that comes from both extremes).

      • OneTrack 5.4.4

        KTH – So what is the plan then? To go backward as two people? The plan is working.

        • Kotahi Tāne Huna 5.4.4.1

          What “plan”? Do you think this useless incompetent government has a “plan”? Are you deranged?

  6. Roy 6

    As a Pakeha New Zealander who opposes the asset sales, I applaud the Maori people who are taking action, through the Waitangi Tribunal, to obstruct the planned sales. If they succeed, it will benefit us all (well, except Jonkey and a few of his greedy mates) and I will be lastingly grateful.

    • Good comment Roy

    • Kotahi Tāne Huna 6.2

      +1

    • tarkwin 6.3

      They could have tried voting in the election, asset sales were a major plank in Nationals policy. To bleat now is un-democratic. Mind you, we are talking about the Maori council here.

      • Pascal's bookie 6.3.1

        ACT party had a fairly prominent policy on treaty stuff, as did National when Brash was in charge.

        Iwi/kiwi remember all that?

        Yeah, it lost.

        So run along, read some history, and stop stealing arguments from boring herald writers opining outside their areas of expertise.

      • framu 6.3.2

        “To bleat now is un-democratic”

        bullshit – democracy is more than ticking a box every three years

        You putting in a lot of effort to prove to everyone that you really thick – keep up the good work

      • Kotahi Tāne Huna 6.3.3

        On the contrary, only the most myopic and ill-informed view of democracy would confine it to a simple plebiscite every three years. Further, I doubt you live by this new rule you just made up, and that makes you a hypocrite. Again.

      • crashcart 6.3.4

        Aparently excersising your democratic right to protest or seek redress through the proper authorities isn’t democratic. You sir should be hired by websters cause I recon you would write the best dictionary. Laugh a minute.

  7. tarkwin 7

    I had no idea there were so many intolerant highly emotional inarticulate people out there. It must be hard going through life with blinkers on, your only solice being to abuse those who disagree with you. Fortunately I have broad shoulders, a legacy of actually working rather than whinging.

    • framu 7.1

      is you last name “Galt”?

    • Kotahi Tāne Huna 7.2

      Congratulations, you have won One Anonymous Bloke’s “Fucking Cry-Baby of the Week” award and it’s only Wednesday. I’ve been looking in vain for a single substantive assertion in your comments, so I can “disagree” – but regretfully none of your positions have any factual basis.

      Further, they reveal profound ignorance and prejudice. While ignorance and prejudice are conditions we all share to one degree or another, yours take a particularly familiar and dreary form, as discussed in the article I linked.

      Your hostility towards fellow citizens is revealed in your first comment on this thread, but we have to be polite to you? Shall we add hypocrite to stupid racist?

      • tarkwin 7.2.1

        Funny bit is I’m part Maori. I’m just more tolerant than you. I want a future you can have the past.

        • NickS 7.2.1.1

          🙄

          And?

        • framu 7.2.1.2

          how do we know that? prove it! after all didnt you say ” By the way how do you define a Maori?”

          go on define away

          frankly i think your telling fibs

        • Tiger Mountain 7.2.1.3

          “By the way how do you define a Maori? How much Maori blood do you need to be a Maori?”
          (tarkwin 11.02am)

          tarkwin you dickhead, ‘blood quantum’ has been disregarded by anyone other than racists for decades re ethnicity. It is about heritage, history and identity.

        • Kotahi Tāne Huna 7.2.1.4

          I’m channelling Wolfgang Pauli.

        • mike e 7.2.1.5

          so tarkwin if you found out you were related to the royal family and you had a rather large inheritance would you turn that down

    • Draco T Bastard 7.3

      So far, all I’ve seen from you is whinging and most of that has been done after people have pointed out where you proved yourself stupid.

  8. tarkwin 8

    My grandmother was 1/4 caste Ngati Kuri, married my granfather in England in 1932. He was Irish. They came here after WW2.

    • framu 8.1

      So that makes you what? its not 1/8th because were talking your grandparents – maybe 1/16th?

      so – considering that your kids will likely marry and produce offspring with people of similarly diluted (or none at all) maori blood – when is the point where they can no longer call themselves maori?

      Im dying to hear the answer to this one

      and bro – i know some Ngati Kuri – they would “smack you upside the head” for the way your behaving here

      “smack you upside the head” being slang for “give a stern talking to” of course

      • framu 8.1.1

        with aplogies to Tiger Mountain – im not arguing in favour of blood quantum – just following tarkwins previous statement “How much Maori blood do you need to be a Maori?” to its logical dead end

        • Pete George 8.1.1.1

          To be fair you should declare your own if you’re challenging someone else about it.

          • Te Reo Putake 8.1.1.1.1

            🙄

          • framu 8.1.1.1.2

            where have i challenged tarkwins blood line, maori-ness or whatever you choose to call it pete?

            its not a pissing contest of “my bloods better than yours” – its all based on tarkwins claim re: how much blood does it take to be maori?

            got it?

            • Te Reo Putake 8.1.1.1.2.1

              DNFTT, framu, he’s just trying to wind you up. Try the rolling eyes icon, it’s a more effective response because it indicates solidarity with other posters here who’ve also had enough of Pete’s trolling.

              • framu

                yeah i know – just felt it was neccessary this one time

                whats the code for the rolling eyes again?

                • bad12

                  Shift key the 2 dots next to the letter L, next print roll and shift key the 2 dots next to the letter L again,

                  To use this method more than once means you have to add something else,(i presume to get around the anti-spam),

                  For instance * ,space ,shift key the 2 dots next to the letter L, print the word roll, shift key the 2 dots next to the letter L, space, *

            • Pete George 8.1.1.1.2.2

              <i?where have i challenged tarkwins blood line, maori-ness

              @ 7.2.1.2 you said: “how do we know that? prove it! ”

              I didn’t call it anything.

      • OneTrack 8.1.2

        “smack you upside the head” being Te Reo for “I can’t talk common English because I failed school because I didn’t listen to the honky teacher because I’m staunch and I’m alway told its not my fault anyway because whitey stole “my” (actually the most powerful chief at the times) land over 170 years ago. But instead of working to build a real future we are still relitigating the past. And we wonder why things aren’t getting better. And even some of the whanau have had enough and gone to Australia.”.

        • mike e 8.1.2.1

          the last land grabs were in the 1960’s
          water 2012 under key
          one track Maori were given land rights that were never conferred.
          The Irish took over 400 years to have their land returned .
          the Jews 75 years.
          Maori began legal action against insider trading settlers and land agents in the early 1870’s but were denied justice.The right of British citizenship
          Maori have got this idea from European if you can steal it and get away with it its OK.
          If we want to show leadership to Maori leaving them at the bottom of the heap while we make plenty off their stolen lands is not leadership.

  9. tarkwin 9

    I really can’t answer the percentage question, I asked it earlier myself. By my reckoning I must be 1/16. Grandma never denied who she was she just chose not to embrace it. Much the same as I do. Unfortunately she died relatively young, they say you go back to your past as you get older, hopefully I’ll find out. I just get sick of plastic Maoris who are only ever there for a dollar. Quaintly enough I have brother who is right into the language etc, he spends a lot of effort helping educate young Maori who go off the rails. Other than that he is like me – not a tribalist, a realist with a future. He likes to look back I don’t.

    • Kotahi Tāne Huna 9.1

      Really? How astonishingly inane.

    • framu 9.2

      even though youve started making an argument worth discussing, stop avoiding the question

      “so – considering that your kids will likely marry and produce offspring with people of similarly diluted (or none at all) maori blood – when is the point where they can no longer call themselves maori?”

      you started all this blood quantum stuff mate – stop side stepping it

      ” I just get sick of plastic Maoris who are only ever there for a dollar”

      really? i thought you were here for a good trolling – why has it taken this long for you to get away from the stupid unintelligent comments? Youve spent alot of the time making foolish comments, avoiding addressing the rebbutals, abusing people and generally throwing your weight around in an effort to do… well i dont know what.

      You might be sick of plastic maoris as you call them – but up till now youve gone about expressing that in a pretty ignorant way, and when this has been pointed out youve avoided the answers.

      “they say you go back to your past as you get older, hopefully I’ll find out”

      well theres no time like the present aye

    • Why don’t you follow the example of your brother?

      There are many like you, deliberately cut off from their Māori heritage, following the inane lines spouted by those who like you just the way you are. The truth is out there – ask your brother.

    • mike e 9.4

      Tribullshitlist racism is racism

  10. tarkwin 10

    My children are New Zealanders. There seem to be an awful lot of pretenders around here. I believe blood is blood it is who you are not who you want to be.

    • Kotahi Tāne Huna 10.1

      What? You want to change the laws of New Zealand as they relate to Te Tiriti O Waitangi, and all you can offer in support is that inarticulate gobshite? Are you delusional?

      We need better bigots.

    • framu 10.2

      “it is who you are not who you want to be”

      OK – so just were are these pretend maori? – i would be willing to bet that the most vocal maori, especially those taking claims to the waitangi tribunal (think about it – to even stand a chance at the WT they need to know, and be able to prove these things), can usually trace their whakapapa Maori back pretty well

      • OneTrack 10.2.1

        The plastic Maori might be the ones who always seen able to summon a Taniwha which can only be subdued with an appropriate amount of koha. And , somehow, the Taniwha itself never gets the koha but some bros end up with a few flash cars. How convenient.

        • mike e 10.2.1.1

          Racism&politics of envy ot
          You must have some sort of Sunburn on the back of your neck.
          Its either blaming Maori for being poor and whining .
          Now Maori are getting a head your Jealous of their reinstating of their rightful place as successful citizens along side us.
          may be we should send you off to Afghanistan for a week on the front lines with Willie Apiata.
          Your a gutless brainless mentally deficient naive idiot look up racism on a mental health site on the internet.
          Thats you disaffected low education low self esteem etc Mental health not all their.
          Keep spreading your cynical racist garbage up their with the KKK and hitler breivik etc

  11. tarkwin 11

    Dollars make fabricators. Haven’t seen too many people here mentioning their lineage.

    • bad12 11.1

      Excuse my language skills here bro but how do you pronounce your name, is it Farkwit…

    • Draco T Bastard 11.2

      Never seen a dollar do that. Seen plenty of people using real resources to do so though.

    • framu 11.3

      your the only one who started the “how much blood?” business

      what does my lineage have to do with your claims?

  12. tarkwin 12

    How witty Bozo, forgotten who your father was or just never knew?

    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      Now that’s just dropping into the ad hominem.

    • Kotahi Tāne Huna 12.2

      Tarkwin, you had your chance to argue your way out of the paper bag you’ve crawled into, but you failed miserably, and now everything you represent turns out to be bullshit, all you’ve got left is semi-articulate abuse.

      Clearly there are “cognitive limits” to your ability to engage further. My condolences.

    • bad12 12.3

      Well then Farkwit now we have dispensed with the unpleasantness of an introduction, from my part anyway as having to address scum tends to give me a bad case of the heeby jeebies,

      just thought i would disabuse you of one of the particular predilictions you have imported into this particular post in your little effort at wrecking the form of the debate with the usual nut-jobs intent of making it all about you,

      You happening to be akin to that which emanates from Nga kuri tiro i usually scrape from my shoes with disdain, but, as i have a spare five i just thought i would alleviate a small piece of your obviously inbred ignorance,

      No-one here need whakapapa in any way to an obvious sham such as you be they Maori or Pakeha, someone else put the relationship of those here who whakapapa back to European waka more succinctly than i could have gathered together the words for,

      He in effect said as Pakeha the Treaty of Waitangi gives all Pakeha the right to stand on these lands, with Him i wholeheartedly agree and would add, the Treaty of Waitangi gives to all Pakeha the Mana to stand upon these lands and where the Crown refuses to honour previous breaches of that Treaty then the Pakeha among us begin to lose that Mana,

      Your pathetic little demand for the whakapapa of others is simply the retreat of the idiot into some really stupid attempt to claim that Pakeha should not be defending the Maori Council view on water rights or perhaps discussing the Treaty at all…

      • OneTrack 12.3.1

        I (obviously) aren’t any good at Te Reo but can you clarify the meaning of Mana. It has mistakenly been described to me in the past that Mana means the same as the word “respect” in the language of the modern world. But that doesn’t quite cover it, because while it is well accepted that you need to “earn” respect, whereas, apparently, you need to demand “Mana”. Is that a fair summary of the difference?

        • mike e 12.3.1.1

          OT you are off track Mana is more than a Narrow word like respect and is never demanded.
          Mana is earned not by being a narrow minded narcissistic racist bully.
          Perhaps you should go on to a Marae just once in your life to try and understand the other side of the .I have and have been pleasantly surprised by the inclusiveness understanding lack of prejudice patients listening and open mindedness.

          • OneTrack 12.3.1.1.1

            Sounds good mike e, but I think the reality is somewhat different. I have seen many tribal “leaders” over the years who simply sound like “Eric” on Southpark when he does his “you will respect my authooritay” sound bite.

            • Te Reo Putake 12.3.1.1.1.1

              That’s ‘authoritah’, OneTrack. And Eric Cartman is a pisstake of people like you; a pumped up bigot and bully who ultimately gets shown to be a snivelling coward. Somewhere out there is a Wendy or a Kyle or a Token just aching to show you up for the worm you are.

            • Murray Olsen 12.3.1.1.1.2

              Name one tribal leader who sounds like that, WrongTrack. Then please show why he has no mana. In my experience, what you are talking about is either policemen or traffic wardens, but I can see how you would get them confused.

        • bad12 12.3.1.3

          Totally the opposite, ”demanding” Mana, depending within which social circle your demand was made would at least get you laughed at as a fool,

          Or,

          To be blunt, get your ass kicked,

          Mana is your standing among your peers, it can neither be demanded, bought, or bestowed upon oneself,

          Mana is the respect with which others view you, be that through your honesty, your ability to fight for those things you hold dear,

          In the context of my earlier comment, Pakeha who view the actions of the Crown toward Maori as unjust when considered against the provisions of the Treaty of Waitangi and are willing to add voice to their concerns in the face of often rabid criticism from fellow Pakeha are viewed as greatly enhancing their Mana…

          • Colonial Viper 12.3.1.3.1

            maybe you could introduce OneTrackIdiot to the ManaXchange. There you can buy as many units of mana as you want at the current market price per unit. That’s an idea that he’d get.

            • bad12 12.3.1.3.1.1

              Yeah, am playing that particular ball(dhead)with a straight bat for now, when it’s obvious that ya can’t learn them like the one we bestow our smiley faces upon or today’s farkwit, then it’s time to offer some remedial aversion therapy…

  13. tarkwin 13

    You play the violin so well for an early settler.

    • Kotahi Tāne Huna 13.1

      Are you talking to me, cretin? Remedial te reo Maori comprehension 101?

    • bad12 13.2

      And your rhetoric is as empty as the upoko from which emanates such lies…

    • marty mars 13.3

      I get it now tarkwin – you are pretending to be Māori so that you can start saying shit that reflects badly upon those you’re pretending to be. Nice strategy – except for one problem – you’re a fuckwit.

  14. tarkwin 14

    Darwin was right, they’re coming thick (very thick) and fast now.

  15. McFlock 15

    More to the point, “Tarkwin”, what do you think of Key & cabinet’s planning around asset sales:
         

    Selling assets to pay down debt that costs less than the returns from the assets to be sold;
    not pre-empting Waitangi Tribunal challenges on water rights/ownership;
    the entire “49% of voting shares” vs “49% of all shares” kerfuffle;
    thinking that the WT can be ignored;
    not knowing about memorialised land and the legal implications thereof.

       
    Have I missed any?
    After all, that’s the point of the post. You might very well want to resurrect the “Travesty of Waitangi” debate, but the real issue is whether any halfway competent government would have been caught out so many times on their flagship policy issue. 
            
    So do you think the government has managed the rollout of their keystone policy competently? Should they have done a bit more homework on the issue? Or has it just been a bit of unforseeable bad luck?  

    • mike e 15.1

      Tarwind up Tag team troll of the day.

    • tarkwin 15.2

      Personally I don’t agree with assett sales, but we can’t keep borrowing forever. I would happily support anyone who has a better idea. It’s very easy to sit in opposition and complain but it’s a lot harder to come up with viable alternatives. Both Labour and the Greens seem to be bereft of ideas which is not a good thing. A healthy democracy needs a healthy opposition. And no, I don’t think Key has done a very good job of the roll out. I would have expected better.

      • McFlock 15.2.1

        The last two sentences were all I needed, cheers.
             
        Do you know of any current MPs who would have done it better? Or even anyone likely to be a parliamentary politician in the future? 

      • Colonial Viper 15.2.2

        Personally I don’t agree with assett sales, but we can’t keep borrowing forever. I would happily support anyone who has a better idea.

        1) You lower the value of the NZ dollar significantly. 10%-20% will do it.
        2) You greatly increase local capital reserves by rewarding saving, not spending.
        3) You put in place an asset tax, as well as a CGT and FTT.
        4) You make cheap credit available to new and recently established exporters for export market expansion. Print the funds.
        5) You reverse tax cuts for the rich, and for companies.
        6) You implement a new 49% bracket for anyone earning more than 10x the median wage, as well as a 49% tax on windfall company profits (>$50M pa).

        and the list goes on.

        • Murray Olsen 15.2.2.1

          Anyone who says they’ll support someone who has a better idea than asset sales, but has yet to see one, should just boil their head. They’re obviously not doing anything else with it.

      • OneTrack 15.2.3

        Thats silly tarkwin. Of course we can keep on borrowing. Look at Greece – we need to follow their lead.

        • mike e 15.2.3.1

          Ot pathetic billionaires who don pay tax, Goldman Sachs Conspiring to defraud Greece(NZ SHOnKEYS ASSET SALES AGENTS).Right wing governments buying votes NACTUF.
          Right wing trols wheeling out the same arguments verbatim lies no surprise!
          Try something original One Track dickhead.

          • OneTrack 15.2.3.1.1

            Mike e – you are heading off the reservation now with left-wing buzzwords and soundbites. Greece was spending well beyond its means and it was its left wing governments that were overseeing it. There are simply not enough Greek billionaires to pay the tax that they needed. And now they have run out of other peoples money. I can’t see the Germans bankrolling them for too much longer as they are starting to see that the Greeks have no intention of reining their spending in either. If we aren’t careful, we will end up in the same boat.

            • NickS 15.2.3.1.1.1

              🙄

              I <3 brainless idiots who can't critically examine their attempts at comparisons.

              Greece – high rate of tax dodging, high government debt, normal-ish private debt

              NZ – Low rate of tax dodging, low government debt, high private debt due to investment in overpriced land capital.

              The only real link between the two is a glut of cheap credit and bankers willing to lead despite rather major longterm problems and warnings from their own modellers about the risks.

              Oh and incidentally, the current hole in the NZ overnment's books is entirely their own fault for cutting taxes and trying to make it (look) neutral via rising GST during a recessionary period, where people generally spend less…

              • Colonial Viper

                we have the additional advantage of being able to cause a economically helpful devaluation of our currency, if we wish to. Not that any of our dumb-ass recent govts have had the sense to do so, but still.

                • NickS

                  Currency vultures, I mean traders, would stuff us over though, plus there’d be whining from our trade partners over how it’s oh so unfair…

            • Murray Olsen 15.2.3.1.1.2

              OK, wrongtrack. Greece has plenty of billionaires. Please name one who paid taxes.

  16. mike e 16

    Murray Deep frying their head in a chip shop vat

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