We Are All ‘Identarian’ Now

Written By: - Date published: 12:31 am, February 14th, 2017 - 106 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, accountability, activism, discrimination, feminism, gender, human rights, identity, Media, Politics, racism, Social issues - Tags:

There has been an unfortunate trend developing in recent weeks, of negatively labelling people who dare to have a different opinion on equality to the labeller, as identarian. I would argue that far from being an insult, this description is actually something to be appreciated in these times when dark forces appear to be on the rise again.

Why wouldn’t someone identify as being opposed to bigotry, to misogyny,indeed to all forms of hate? On the contrary, having clearly identifiable values and a sense of integrity is something to be admired, something for all compassionate beings with a desire for a just and equitable society to aim for and to seek out in others.

For those of us who believe in these things and at the risk of being attacked as has happened to others in recent times by those who care only about winning and losing, we are all identarians now! Bring it on, we are not alone and will not be silenced by the hateful ones!

The Outrider

106 comments on “We Are All ‘Identarian’ Now ”

  1. adam 1

    Either you support civil rights or you don’t.

    It’s really that simple.

  2. Antoine 3

    I am probably somewhat of an identitarian myself, but I do think it is sometimes worth acknowledging, that if you go too hard with it, it can potentially hurt you at the ballot box.

    (Not that political success is the be-all and end-all)

    A.

    • lprent 3.1

      Personally I find that having a minor shock jock with what appear to be limited political skills (he has been living in John Tamihere’s shadow for a while) simply implausible as a party vote getter.

      However I do find that abusing the political process to push a political fool up the queue really pissed me off. I wonder if having a debate in public in an election year about a flaw in the selection systems of Labour is really that much of a vote getter.

      • Antoine 3.1.1

        I hadn’t been thinking about the WJ thing specifically

      • Wayne 3.1.2

        Presumably he is intended to get party vote that is not already in Labour, either from NZF or National.
        I am pretty sure he has not be recruited to retain Labour’s existing party vote.

  3. Sanctuary 4

    Ah, the satirical Manichean world view of the identity liberals. Either you are agree with us or your… your… YOUR AN OPPRESSOR!!!!!

    • lprent 4.1

      Or that you could just be fair.

      After all we really don’t have to descend to the level of the incompetent misogynist comedian – you and Willie are there already.

      As far as I can tell, your snideness merely conceals inadequacy.

      Personally I think that letting the competition for places should be clear and transparent. And not done by issuing proclamations from on high that idiot comedians should queue jump.

      • garibaldi 4.1.1

        I couldn’t agree more lprent. Helicoptering him in at the expense of proper procedure is very risky when, imo, he is ” bringing too much baggage”. Having watched Willie over the past few years he has ranged from being OK to appalling.

  4. red-blooded 5

    Great post. After all, unfairness and oppression can take many forms and is to be confronted and opposed no matter whether its racism, sexism and misogyny, homophobia, class oppression, discrimination against those with mental or physical disabilities… The left is characterised by caring and respect for the rights of all – we need to continue to stand up for these values.

    And Sanctuary, maybe you need to ask yourself which groups of people you think should just shut up and put up with discrimination and disadvantage (ie, oppression).

  5. Why wouldn’t someone identify as being opposed to bigotry, to misogyny,indeed to all forms of hate?

    Have you considered the possibility that people don’t tend to identify as being in favour of those things and maybe aren’t persuaded that they are in favour of them simply by someone unilaterally declaring them a hater?

    • Sanctuary 6.1

      The answer to that question is almost always an emphatic “no”, which is why these conversations always end up akin to trying to reason with a kamikaze pilot who has just spotted an aircraft carrier.

      • Carolyn_nth 6.1.1

        How does it feel flying up there, about to do the death dive?

        Because what you say sounds like the way you react to those of us who support social as well as economic justice.

        And it is about social justice, not just civil rights (which is a legal issue). It’s about the way society and culture are organised and the systems of power within them. It results in a system, where some groups have more advantages, and are more empowered than others.

        Ultimately it’s the way power is distributed within social institutions and cultural practices.

        And capitalism has always been patriarchal and imperialistic.

        • The Outrider 6.1.1.1

          Very true, capitalism allows oppression to thrive in the name of profit. If you profit you are a winner but if you don’t you are a loser and thus marginalised.

    • McFlock 6.2

      The trouble with that option is that those things flourish without active opposition. They are incubated when they go unchallenged. We show them we don’t care when we fail to demonstrate we care.

      So to a degree proportionate to our lack of commitment, yeah. We all support hate. I know there have been times I’ve been too tired or whatever to bother. And that’s without one or two things I really do hate.

      Don’t kid yourself: if you put up with a racist cousin or sexist boss, you’re telling them their comments and actions are acceptable.

      • Psycho Milt 6.2.1

        Thing is, there’s active opposition, in which you tell someone what your point of dispute is, and then there’s accusing someone of being a hateful bigot, in which you enjoy some pointless self-indulgence. I’m happy to debate people who disagree with me on Islam being a totalitarian ideology or transgender being a mental disorder, but there’s no useful reply to people who leap straight to cries of “Islamophobia!” or “Transphobia!” other than “Well, fuck you too, arsehole.” If your starting point is “You are plainly a terrible person,” there’s no reason to assume your approach will be persuasive.

        • McFlock 6.2.1.1

          What makes you think they believe they can change a plainly terrible person’s mind?

          Because the other objective might be to show other people, whose ideas aren’t as entrenched, that the opinions or even just manner of expressing those opinions is not socially acceptable.

          Seems to me that there are two problems with fucked up opinions: social acceptability that allows them to spread, and then there’s the actual problem of trying to change a bigot’s mind. The second is significantly more difficult than the first.

          Some trumpeter jerk a while back was arguing that the polls were off before the US election and that this was because people were embarrassed to tell the liberal intelligensia their true opinions, and feared that they might be judged negatively for supporting Trump, but in the privacy of the voting booth their true opinons came to light. Good. That means that at least they had the decency to be embarrassed and not spread that crap in public.

          • Brutus Iscariot 6.2.1.1.1

            The first problem for you is that you can’t exterminate an idea by forbidding its expression. That much is obvious by any look at history.

            The second problem is that it isn’t a left wing blog (or you personally) that gets to decree what’s racist/sexist/bigoted, and thereby deserving of (as touched on in other thread) physical or verbal violence. Most people are all round decent human beings whose primary aims in life consists of getting by and enjoying/looking after their family without doing harm by anyone. They don’t take too kindly to having ridiculous labels thrown at them because they didn’t happen follow the latest decree du jour from left-wing academia.

            Perversely your Orwellian approach of attempting to “put people in their place” and suppress their latent “deplorability”, has demonstrably resulted in illiberal reactions that may never have happened otherwise. You mention the US election – well there were a lot of Obama 2008/2012 voters who flipped to Trump. A good chunk of his voters don’t like him or agree with half his policies, they were just tired of being told how vile they were for not committing to Clinton.

            Catriona McLennan posted an article the other day. Apparently we’re meant to be pissed off with Rod Drury because he does business with someone who supports Trump. Essentially Drury’s mate’s mate is a prick so we therefore need to nail him. Do you think there are any winners from that kind of petty tribalism?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 6.2.1.1.1.1

              Shame is not censorship. Being implacably opposed to bigotry is not putting people in their place. In fact, it is prejudice and bigotry that insist on assigning places and roles for people.

              That’s why the National Party employs Cameron Slater, and the Republican Party is on its knees for Breitbart.

              Too many think tanks dedicated to authoring sophistry leads to unhinged thugs in the White House, while the Hollow Men scramble to keep up. Academics are just like lawyers, eh.

              Quick, blame the Left.

              • HDCAFriendlyTroll

                So everyone who voted Trump is a bigot then?

                • McFlock

                  Nope, not necessarily.

                  But I’m pretty sure that everyone who voted for trump voted for a bigot to lead the USA. So they still support bigotry, because they voted for it.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Are they? Perhaps you can explain how you use any of my comments to reach that conclusion, because it looks like you prefer to offer strawmen rather than argue in good faith.

                  And that’s precisely the behaviour I’m talking about: sophistry demands that you misrepresent my position rather than defend your own. Can’t win the debate so you attempt to burn it down instead.

                  I repeat: shame is not censorship: it is a consequence of prejudice. If you don’t like your false frames being blown over construct some better ones.

            • McFlock 6.2.1.1.1.2

              OK, when I write this, I’m not “forbidding” you from expressing your views. I’m not decreeing what is socially acceptable or bigoted. Or any other of the stupid stuff you wrote.

              If nobody speaks out against something, then it’s socially acceptable because people are accepting it.

              If they just look out for them and theirs and don’t speak up when others are being abused, then they are indeed providing a “safe space” for bigotry.

              This isn’t about “forbidding” or saying what people “need” to do. If someone wishes to provide a safe space for trump supporters and do business with them, then other people can choose to not accept that silently.

              People voting for trump was their choice. What we see is that now the president of the US is one of them, bigots everywhere feel that it’s acceptable to be vocally and sometimes physically violent against people who did nothing to deserve it. That’s what happens when you provide tacit approval to bigots.

          • Psycho Milt 6.2.1.1.2

            Because the other objective might be to show other people, whose ideas aren’t as entrenched, that the opinions or even just manner of expressing those opinions is not socially acceptable.

            Exactly. Here, there are a lot of people reading but not commenting. If I make a case for it being a terrible idea to shoehorn Willie Jackson into a high place on the Labour list because he is a hateful misogynist, or as Millsy would put it “Why do you hate women, Willie Jackson,” that’s not going to convince anybody. Fortunately, The Standard is full of commenters who could and did make excellent cases based on his and the Labour leadership’s actions, but I wouldn’t dream of calling those commenters “identitarian” (actually, it’s not a word I’d use at all, but you get the idea).

            • McFlock 6.2.1.1.2.1

              It might not persuade non-commenters to lobby Labour concerning WJ’s leg up, but actually I was merely hoping that, should their friend mention that another acquaintance had been raped, it occurs to them that the questions “well how much had she been drinking before this little bit of mischief happened?” and “how old was she when she lost her virginity?” might not be entirely appropriate.

        • Adrian Thornton 6.2.1.2

          Yes of course you are right to say it is ‘pointless self-indulgence’ to just say fuck you and your stupid views, in answer to someone else’s stupid racist, and or bigoted beliefs… but then again sometimes, for me, that is the only suitable response.

    • weka 6.3

      “Have you considered the possibility that people don’t tend to identify as being in favour of those things and maybe aren’t persuaded that they are in favour of them simply by someone unilaterally declaring them a hater?”

      true, but the post wasn’t doing that so I’m wondering what you are referring to?

      • Psycho Milt 6.3.1

        I quoted the bit I was referring to:

        Why wouldn’t someone identify as being opposed to bigotry, to misogyny,indeed to all forms of hate?

        The implication being that the author is opposed to all forms of hate and those who disagree with her/him are not.

        There’s also this bit:

        …we are not alone and will not be silenced by the hateful ones!

        If that means something other than that the people disagreeing with the author are “hateful,” it beats me what that meaning might be.

        • weka 6.3.1.1

          the first bit I took to mean that there is nothing wrong with IP because it’s opposing discrimination (i.e. hate).

          the second bit I took to mean not silenced by the people going hard out against IP. It’s getting nasty out there. So it’s not about people that disagree with the author, but those particular ones who would attack the author and others because of their approach to IP.

          • Psycho Milt 6.3.1.1.1

            On that we’re never going to agree. I believe yours is a wildly over-generous interpretation, based on my own experience of being attacked because of my approach to IP. But you obviously think mine is equally wrong and I don’t doubt you’ve had plenty of experience yourself. For what it’s worth, I don’t think either of us are keen to see people mistaking their personal prejudice for natural law or rational analysis.

            • weka 6.3.1.1.1.1

              I’m not sure I’m familiar with your approach to IP. I took the post at face value but in the context of what has been happening in NZ rather than on TS (although I am aware of people other than yourself running anti-IP lines).

              I’m going to hazard a guess that your own position isn’t aligned with the people who believe that socioeconomics is the predominant political issue and that IP gets in the way of that?

              • Correct. Expecting any group to sit quietly through “let’s put your issues aside for the moment because I’m sure they’ll mostly be addressed by you putting all your effort into fixing this thing that I’m bothered about” isn’t sensible or likely to be successful.

                On the other hand, I’ve had experience with IP enthusiasts whose approach is that they’re opposing hateful bigotry, so if you disagree with them on something you are necessarily a hateful bigot and the blog shouldn’t be publishing your hate speech. Those people can fuck right off.

  6. Ad 7

    There was a useful point from Stephanie Rodgers a week ago, to the effect that it is going to be really hard to win elections if party leadership continue to run over their activist base, which is made up of activist groupings.

    With the tide this far out on Labour, few political boats are lifted, and that uneven rocky base of activist groupings is more visible, more exposed.

    Granted, those groups are nowhere near enough to win an election. But this is not the moment in the Labour Party’s trajectory to alienate the people that are keeping it alive.

    • lprent 7.1

      That is my view as well.

      I don’t have a problem with the selection of candidates of Deborah Russell in New Lynn, or Greg O’Connor in Oharui. Neither are who I would have picked for those electorates. However I’m not in either electorate and both got selected with the usual process.

      However whoever was trying to do a pretty clear end-run around the list selection process with Willie Jackson (and I have a strong suspicion on those who did it) are clearly trying to piss the activist base off. That is a really dumb move in any year, but borders on catastrophic in an election year.

  7. Tautoko Mangō Mata 8

    Consider a Venn diagram with circles overlapping with a large core area common to all circles. We can’t push everyone into the same circle of beliefs, but if those in different identity groups can understand that to achieve results for their particular cause, their best chance is by joining with others who share the common core of humanitarian goals to achieve a critical mass which can change the government.
    Remember the last massive climate change march. There were people from churches, people from coal action, people against deep sea oil drilling, mothers, fathers, unions, all marching under different banners.

    Combining our efforts to change the government doesn’t mean that we have to lose our identity political aims. We can stand alongside others fighting for their rights in the common goal of achieving a political environment in which people and the environment are given higher priority than short term monetary gains at the expense of future generations.

    let us not be divided by our different identities but united in a FAIRNESS FOR ALL goal.

    • Anne 8.1

      We can’t push everyone into the same circle of beliefs, but if those in different identity groups can understand that to achieve results for their particular cause, their best chance is by joining with others who share the common core of humanitarian goals to achieve a critical mass which can change the government.

      Great words TMM but therein lies the problem.

      There are some people inside Labour who cannot see past the ends of their noses and who refuse to accept others’ beliefs that have equal validity to their own. The overall goal of fairness and justice (the belief system which has sustained me for decades) appears sometimes to be given second or third place in the minds of some.

  8. Brutus Iscariot 9

    “Why wouldn’t someone identify as being opposed to bigotry, to misogyny,indeed to all forms of hate?”

    That’s the part that sounds good, but it’s where the definitions of those terms clash with mainstream society that is the key.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1

      Mainstream society used to include slave ownership, and to an extent still does. Women only got the vote a hundred-odd years ago, Homosexual law reform, same sex marriage, etc. etc.

      Clashing with such “mainstream” opinions as these comes naturally to humans. Get used to it.

  9. Carolyn_nth 10

    I have been working on a post for another site about this issue. When researching the meaning of “identity politics” yesterday, I was pleased to see that wikipedia included class politics (or at least one part of it) in identity politics.

    Some of this have been saying this for a while, and the wiki article included a point about Marxism that I also have made to people in the past:

    Formally, it may even be found in Karl Marx’s earliest statements about a class becoming conscious of itself and developing a class identity.

    Marx had said that when workers moved into cities to work together in factories, they would share their experiences of being exploited. They would then realise they were all exploited in the same way, and start to organise to overthrow such an oppressive system. In the process, they would become aware of their shared working class identity.

    There is a similar process with women, people of colour, LGBTI people and those with disability.

    While some people try to say identity politics is about individuals. It just is not. I happens where groups of people become aware of the way they are all oppressed, abused, discriminated against or marginalised in the same way. Then they begin to express solidarity and organise collectively.

  10. weka 11

    Welcome to The Standard The Outrider :mrgreen:

    • lprent 11.1

      Yes. I forgot to say that as well.

      Outrider is currently a Contributor rather than an Author. It means that they get a login and can write posts but not release them to the public.

      We are trying this as a better and hopefully more efficient author training system than the guest post system. Guest posts tend to chew up a lot of time that we often do not have. And they don’t help train the potential authors in the mechanics of how to write a post for the site.

    • The Outrider 11.2

      Thanks weka. Hope to add value and contribute some useful posts.

  11. Brutus Iscariot 12

    Having had another look at the original post, it’s instructive how vapid and self-indulgent it is, with nothing of substance really said. Does absolutely nothing to dispel the view that deep down the whole exercise more about virtue-signalling and self-validation than any meaningful analysis of society and its needs.

    “Look how moral I am!! Look how disgusting everyone else is!!”

    Not doing your “cause” any favours.

  12. Identarian? Horrible label imo

    I identify as a person interested in fighting oppression via identity politics.

    Every improvement and gain in any area against oppression is good for everyone. And each victory helps other peoples in their fight.

    Identity politics is inclusive not exclusive,

    Identity politics is wide and deep not narrow and shallow.

    My mantra is – if anyone gets left behind then we all get left. Because who has the arrogance to say the shit YOU are going through is less important than my shit.

    • Brutus Iscariot 13.1

      No, it can never be defined as inclusive, because inherently it’s a redistributive ideology, just not in the material sphere.

      The essence of it is that the legitimacy of your worldview is inversely related to the proportion of the population you represent, due to the 1500-2000AD historical dominance of Western European (males). It elevates the life struggles of minorities, regardless of whether they are actually caused by systemic oppression, over the struggles of anyone else.

      A classic example is Young Labour’s drive on Transgender Reassignment waiting lists. Not hospital waiting lists, not health funding, not primary health intervention – but specifically Gender Reassignment Waiting Lists. Elevating the needs (and this is also a highly arguable point) of an absolutely miniscule number of people, over a wider debate. You can under stand why that pisses off a retired labourer in Waitakere who’s been waiting 2 years for a hip replacement. Same contrast exists with the high-earning businesswoman who is “oppressed” because she doesn’t feel like she’s on enough boards.

      Confusion also reigns when the economic intersects or contrasts with the demographic – e.g. Asian New Zealanders. Non white, typically socially conservative and technically colonially oppressed during some parts of history, yet materially wealthier and more capitalistic than NZ’s previous generations of migrants (including the original migrants from Hawaiki).

      • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1.1

        The essence of it is that the legitimacy of your worldview is inversely related to the proportion of the population you represent, due to the 1500-2000AD historical dominance of Western European (males).

        That literally makes no sense. You validate the opposing argument – in acknowledging the privileged position occupied by Western European males (who are a smaller proportion of the population than Western European females, by the way, which invalidates your argument).

        The “legitimacy” of our Western European male worldview is reinforced by everything from the legal system to entertainment. So much so that you haven’t even noticed it.

        • Brutus Iscariot 13.1.1.1

          Sorry, i did forget that females were a minority despite the numerical superiority. Although they’re a numerical minority in East Asia due to female infanticide – anyway.

          What’s being lost in the “rage against the machine” 21st century railing against oppressive systems, is that the systems implemented by those white males actually conferred the most basic rights “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” that everyone now enjoys, and often didn’t previously. I don’t think you can fault King John in 1215 for failing to foresee the demand for transgender public bathrooms and putting that in the Magna Carta.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1.1.1.1

            King John: a fine example of unearned privilege, and so were the barons who forced him to Runnymede in the first place.

            Today, those who believe in due process and equality before the law are still having to force our modern King Johns (cf: the National Party) to pull their heads in.

            The unprincipled always have to be forced to pay more than lip service to liberty. Nothing changes in that respect.

            PS: it may have been European males who first recognised this, but right wingers weren’t among them. Always on the wrong side of history.

      • marty mars 13.1.2

        It is inclusive – FACT

        It doesn’t elevate struggles it recognises them.

        You don’t really understand the concept – like many, and the point of the post in some ways, you are pushing lines to discredit that which is beyond your understanding. So sad, for you.

      • weka 13.1.3

        “A classic example is Young Labour’s drive on Transgender Reassignment waiting lists. Not hospital waiting lists, not health funding, not primary health intervention – but specifically Gender Reassignment Waiting Lists. Elevating the needs (and this is also a highly arguable point) of an absolutely miniscule number of people, over a wider debate. You can under stand why that pisses off a retired labourer in Waitakere who’s been waiting 2 years for a hip replacement.”

        And yet women already get priority to have health funding for IFV treatments. Why is that ok but transgender reassignment not? And why does Waitakere Man feel aggrieved by the transgender person’s needs and not the infertile woman’s?

        Same contrast exists with the high-earning businesswoman who is “oppressed” because she doesn’t feel like she’s on enough boards.”

        It’s not that she feels oppressed, it’s that she is systemically and sometimes individually prejudiced against specifically because of her gender. That’s sexism. Sexism exists, and when you frame it as being about how women feel, you are adding to that sexism by minimising or making invisible the very real structures of prejudice that are there.

        • Carolyn_nth 13.1.3.1

          The sexism that occurs on company boards, is part of the same patriarchal system of privilege and disadvantage through which single mothers are the must disadvantaged in our society.

          Whole system needs changing from the bottom up.

  13. weka 14

    Intersectionality https://thestandard.org.nz/intersections/

    Solidarity https://overland.org.au/2016/12/this-is-what-solidarity-looks-like/

    Time for the left to work together rather than worrying about all agreeing with each other.

  14. Yes own the name. But be aware where the term came from. The Identitarian movement is a pan-European socio-political movement that started in France in 2002 as a far-right youth movement deriving from the French Nouvelle Droite Génération Identitaire. I don’t mind being considered youthful or even French, but I do draw the line at far right.

  15. HDCAFriendlyTroll 16

    Jesus F Christ. There’s so much straw in here no one light a match.

    Identity politics is when people are judged on what they are – sex, race, etc – rather than merit.

    For example Willie Jackson is a dick. Based on merit, for him to get a high position on the Labour list would be stupid. For him to get a high a high position because he happens to be a Maori is identity politics.

    Other examples:

    Barrack Obama becoming President because he’s black.
    Hillary Clinton being elected President because she has vagina (I know, she didn’t win, it’s just an hypothetical).

    You can be opposed to misogyny, racism and every other “ism” and be against identity politics. And if you believe people should be rewarded on merit rather than what they are – e.g. male, female, race – then you already are.

    • weka 16.1

      That’s not what identity politics is though. What you are talking about is when ‘identity politics’ gets used as a club to attack those speaking on issues that affect marginalised or oppressed people. This is literally what is happening in NZ now and often from some on the left. For instance when someone says they are against identity politics, they are declaring themselves to be anti-feminist. They can claim to still be against misogyny and sexism but when you scratch the surface of the political analysis what they mean is that they don’t like those things, not that they are working against them or to solve them in society. Their problem with IP takes precedence over any real world support for women.

      WJ didn’t get a high position because he ‘happens to be Māori’. He got in because his Māoriness and work for his people is perceived to serve Māoridom and Labour’s commitment to that. There’s nothing wrong with that. That he also has a history of misogyny IS a problem, irrespective of whether he is a dick or not. But interesting that the person who is against IP sees the problem of Jackson being his character not his actions around rape culture. That is a pretty good example of how to be against feminism by being against IP.

      Likewise, voting Clinton wasn’t about voting for someone with a vagina. It was about voting for someone with the pro-women politics. People seem really confused on this but some are happy to use that against women’s politics and wellbeing.

      • HDCAFriendlyTroll 16.1.1

        If you want to support Clinton because of her work promoting women in the workforce etc, that’s fair enough. That’s called supporting someone on their merit and not simply because of their genitals. If Clinton had done nothing for women and was simply riding on her name and gender then you wouldn’t support her would you?

        And if I were to support Trump simply because he happens to be white and rich that would be wrong. Anyone could be born white and rich – it’s just luck. That’s an example of identity politics.

        Let’s say there are two people competing for position of PM, or leadership of a major political party, doesn’t really matter. One is a member of an oppressed group and the other isn’t. For the sake of argument let’s say the latter base on merit is clearly the better choice and do the job a lot better.

        Who do you choose? Do you say in the name of equality and social justice the former should get the job? Or do you say merit is what counts?

        Or to confuse things even further, let’s say the former isn’t as good as the latter, but almost as good. Do you choose them then because even though they aren’t as good you’re redressing as wrong?

        Anyway I’m digressing a bit. Point is just because someone is opposed to identity politics doesn’t mean they are for misogyny and racism etc.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1.1.1

          So much mythology, so little time. The second link at 16.2 is but one example of what really happens when people pretend to judge on merit: even the well-intentioned fail.

        • weka 16.1.1.2

          If you want to support Clinton because of her work promoting women in the workforce etc, that’s fair enough. That’s called supporting someone on their merit and not simply because of their genitals. If Clinton had done nothing for women and was simply riding on her name and gender then you wouldn’t support her would you?

          Well I wouldn’t have voted for Thatcher or Shipley if that’s what you are asking. Point is though, a lot of the vagina voting criticism was criticising women for voting for a woman who was pro-women. Just like you did. That’s sexism.

          And just to put this in context, the first time that a woman ran for US president, where we had months and months of debate on TS about that election, including many posts about it, how many posts on TS were written by feminists about feminist issues in the election? When you figure out the answer to that, tell me why that was so. Then try arguing in that context that we don’t need IP.

          And if I were to support Trump simply because he happens to be white and rich that would be wrong. Anyone could be born white and rich – it’s just luck. That’s an example of identity politics.

          Anyone could be born disabled, it’s just luck. They shouldn’t have political representation on that basis of that luck. Is that what you are really saying?

          Let’s say there are two people competing for position of PM, or leadership of a major political party, doesn’t really matter. One is a member of an oppressed group and the other isn’t. For the sake of argument let’s say the latter base on merit is clearly the better choice and do the job a lot better.

          Who do you choose? Do you say in the name of equality and social justice the former should get the job? Or do you say merit is what counts?

          Lolz. I love how that example always starts with an uneven playing field. How about instead we assume for the sake of argument, that both people are of the same merit. Do you support the social justice choice or go with the white dude?

          Anyway I’m digressing a bit. Point is just because someone is opposed to identity politics doesn’t mean they are for misogyny and racism etc.

          Really? Because everyone I see arguing against IP is pretty much opposing political action against misogyny, racism etc. You’ve just done it here.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 16.2

      Meanwhile, on Earth, men are rewarded based on their identity.

      It’s interesting the way you seek to turn that situation on its head by claiming that attempts to redress it and other examples of unearned privilege, are the problem.

      In fact, you’re supporting precisely that which you purport to oppose.

      • HDCAFriendlyTroll 16.2.1

        “The main finding is consistent across the three studies: when an organization is explicitly presented as meritocratic, individuals in managerial positions favor a male employee over an equally qualified female employee by awarding him a larger monetary reward.”

        Which is an example of identity politics. And basically you want to redress it by doing the same thing but in reverse? I think that’s called reverse discrimination.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 16.2.1.1

          Have you got a moment, or are you too busy telling me what I think?

          The first thing I’d like to do is to get you – and the people who concocted the lines you’re running – and especially their employers – to admit that unearned privilege is a problem.

          Then perhaps you can be part of the solutions.

          • HDCAFriendlyTroll 16.2.1.1.1

            Yes, unearned privilege is a problem, and that’s one reason I’m opposed to identity politics.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 16.2.1.1.1.1

              Can you take the next step, and move beyond lip service to proposing solutions to the dead weight of privileged white males? Get out of your sedan chair, as it were.

  16. xanthe 17

    Cecily knew she should not play with matches, but the bright flames were so enticing. Now sitting amoungs the ashes and charred beams and heirlooms of the old hall, she looked around for someone to blame.

    • weka 17.1

      translation: xanthe thinks feminists are to blame for the neoliberal take-over of the Labour party.

      • marty mars 17.1.1

        I thought x blamed all identians not just some feminists for the take over of her beloved labour party

        • Anne 17.1.1.1

          My interpretation too marty mars.

          • Xanthe 17.1.1.1.1

            Very good ! We have an understanding.

            So what part do you feel the indentarians played in the neoliberal takeover of the labour party?

            And how might this be unwound?

            • weka 17.1.1.1.1.1

              translation: xanthe thinks feminists, gays, Māori, disabled people, transgender people, etc are to blame for the neoliberal take-over of the Labour party.

            • Anne 17.1.1.1.1.2

              The neo liberal take over of the Labour Party occurred in the 1980s and was conducted by a smallish cabal of men who had been captured by neo-liberal NZ businessmen. After they left the Labour Party (the last one to go was Richard Prebble in 1993) the LP began the long, slow and at times, painful journey back to its roots – that is, a fair and just society for all NZers no matter colour, race or creed. It wasn’t a journey that could ever happen quickly and, in my view, the Party is now there.

              • xanthe

                “The neo liberal take over of the Labour Party occurred in the 1980s and was conducted by a smallish cabal of men who had been captured by neo-liberal NZ businessmen”
                I generally agree thats what happened.

                But my question is how come the labour party was a pushover for something so alien to its roots? What was happening in the labour party that so weakened it?
                My view is that indentity politics was well established as a dominent force in the party at that time and that at its core it is a competitive and divisive model that is not inconsistant with neo-liberilism

                • weka

                  So feminism, Māori sovereignty, disability rights, gay rights were the real drivers of Douglas and Prebble? Or the women, gays, Māori and disabled people somehow pushed an agenda to get rid of working class politics?

                  I suppose giving women the vote had something to do with it, and that would certainly place the dominant force of IP well before neoliberalism was brought into NZ. Can’t see how women getting the vote is competitive and divisive though, unless you believe that sharing power with women is wrong.

                • McFlock

                  What happened?

                  Isolate: remove the targets from uncontrolled external influences. E.g. cabinet confidentiality, close economic planning units across a variety of departments except Treasury

                  Induce crisis: Something must be done, right now

                  Reinforce: committed now. Protestors are wrong, this is short term pain. Any alternative is worse. TINA.

                  Rationalise: no matter what happens, some members will support us. Ignore the vocal minority.

                  For “identity politics” (aka “giving a damn”) to have been responsible for Lab4, the views of Labour rank&file need to have been relevant to the neoliberal implementation. It wasn’t. It was expicitly ignored.

                  • xanthe

                    mc flock

                    thats a very good analysis of the first wave and the means of takeover. mostly how I remember it too

                    • McFlock

                      when you say “first wave”, I take it you mean Douglas et al?

                    • xanthe

                      “when you say “first wave”, I take it you mean Douglas et al?”

                      yes thats what I mean .

                      neoliberalisim has come forward a long way since , largly unopposed by either ruling party

                • Anne

                  …my question is how come the labour party was a pushover for something so alien to its roots? What was happening in the labour party that so weakened it?

                  There was a division which had its roots in the 1970s. Although I didn’t understand it at the time, there was a power game being waged between a group of relatively young MPs and the older and more traditional MPs who had been in parliament since the 1950s. Running through these two threads was a group of women who were starting to assert themselves within the party. The ‘relative newcomers’ (Douglas, Bassett, Prebble, Moore and co.), who were positioning themselves to take over the reins of the party, saw these women as a threat and so Labour ended up with a three pronged power battle which ended up tearing the party apart.

                  The above is an oversimplified description of what happened but, apart from the Helen Clark years (when she was able to keep the lid on the pot), it was the basis of the problems Labour has encountered since.

                  In my view Andrew Little is doing an excellent job slowly bringing the threads together again but it is inevitable there will be hiccups along the way. I view the Willie Jackson/Poto Williams stoush as one such hiccup. Provided he is given the time and sufficient leeway, I am convinced he will succeed.

                  He is in no way, shape or form a neoliberal acolyte (as some seem determined to paint him)) but he does have to tread carefully until after the election when, as prime minister (I hope), he will have the power to turn NZ around and make it once again the progressive and innovative country it once was.

            • marty mars 17.1.1.1.1.3

              No part whatsoever imo the opposite in fact.

        • weka 17.1.1.2

          probably true. Funny how it’s the white dudes on the left that use feminism as an example though 😉

          I just narrow it down to feminism because it’s clear way to demonstrate exactly what is being done when someone like xanthe speaks against IP.

          • xanthe 17.1.1.2.1

            “I just narrow it down to feminism because it’s clear way to demonstrate exactly what is being done when someone like xanthe speaks against IP.”

            I think thats called misrepresenting, weka,
            its a form of dishonesty

            • weka 17.1.1.2.1.1

              If I am getting it wrong, why don’t you correct me? Any time you want to step up and explain what you mean, fine by me.

              In the meantime, in the absence of you explaining, despite repeated requests, I will continue to interpret your politics based on what I observe you saying and doing.

              And as long as you use anti-IP rhetoric to harm people and progressive political movements I will keep criticising you for that, and the politics you promote.

              • xanthe

                “And as long as you use anti-IP rhetoric to harm people and progressive political movements I will keep criticising you for that, and the politics you promote.”

                dishonest retoric ! divisive, combatitive, misdirection.
                you do yourself no favours… again

                • weka

                  Still won’t explain what you mean, and instead just start pointing and calling names 🙄

                  The irony there is that solidarity politics are by definition inclusive. And the anti-IP position is by definition exclusive. So project all you like, I’ll just keep naming it until you front up and engage.

                  • HDCAFriendlyTroll

                    How is the anti-IP position exclusive? I don’t care whether you are left wing or right wing, male or female. I don’t judge you by what you identify as but by the merit of what you say.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      You read the link at 16.2, and still you imagine yourself a paragon, an outlier, rather than simply lying to yourself.

                      However, you’ve acknowledged that your alleged impartiality is a good thing, and since from reading the link at 16.2, you know you’re an outlier, how do you propose to address the dead weight of privilege holding people (and society) down?

                    • McFlock

                      See, you have a serious reading comprehension difficulty.

                      You might not care what I “identify” as. But you sure care if I insist on equal treatment, or rights over my body, or that I have appropriate facilities if they are required for me to participate in work, education, or the community. Because all of those are “identity politics”, and you are “anti-IP”.

                      So being anti me advocating for those rights or things I need to be included in society, you’re against me doing what needs to be done to be included in society.

                      You’re excluding me.

                      Anti-IP is exclusive, not inclusive. You might not care what shape I am, but it’s not just about you, is it…

                    • HDCAFriendlyTroll

                      ” you know you’re an outlier, how do you propose to address the dead weight of privilege holding people (and society) down?”

                      Credit where credit is due. That is a very good question.

                      In short the answer is equality of opportunity.

                      For example ensuring that everyone has the same educational opportunities regardless of socio-economic status.

                      And ensuring we all have the same employment opportunities regardless of where we’ve come from.

                    • weka

                      “For example ensuring that everyone has the same educational opportunities regardless of socio-economic status.”

                      How would that work with disability if you don’t address disability -specific issues?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      ensuring that everyone has the same educational opportunities regardless of socio-economic status.

                      And ensuring we all have the same employment opportunities regardless of where we’ve come from.

                      Describing the outcomes you want to see is not an answer to the question.

                      “…how do you propose to address the dead weight of privilege holding people (and society) down?”

                      The effect of household income on education outcomes is well known. “Equal education opportunities” sounds good and means absolutely nothing in this context. I’m sure I don’t have to spell out the effects of education on employment opportunities, and that’s before you explain how you propose to address bias and prejudice at work.

                      Try again.

                    • HDCAFriendlyTroll

                      “How would that work with disability if you don’t address disability -specific issues?”

                      That’s not what identity politics is about though. Identity politics is for example voting for someone just because they have a vagina. Or having a policy that says that 1/2 the caucus must be women.

                      If the government wants to address disability specific issues (and they should) that’s fine. It’s not identity politics. And If we were to define it as identity politics then this means National has been playing identity politics with farmers since the beginning of time.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      You’re the definition guru are you? This from Wikipedia:

                      …refers to political positions based on the interests and perspectives of social groups with which people identify. Identity politics includes the ways in which people’s politics may be shaped by aspects of their identity through loosely correlated social organizations.

                      Have you got any other goalposts you’d like me to fix for you?

                      And yes, the National Party favours the short-term interests of people who identify as farmers, especially if they offer donations. Wadeable rivers much?

  17. greywarshark 18

    I think we have had the identity revolution, and like all revolutions, it hasn’t been entirely satisfactory and some bad habits have continued or have risen again. That’s not new. People who seek revolution and change have to think and plan to get it going, to understand the problems against them, to face head-on what has to be, and to avoid or go round if subterfuge or other means is just as useful in the long run. That’s not new.

    What is new is climate change and, in our lived experience, the unprecedented effect of climate change, unleashed unprincipled capitalism which is spreading its poison across the globe at a time when we have reached a high point in education with the possibility of a breadth of understanding of the human situation as never before. We have been given the revolution of universal education, taught to read, and have information poured over us till we almost drown in it. But we need to keep our minds and thoughts open, and our mouths shut to ensure that we aren’t obliterated by green nature and human nature.

    Part of our difficulty, is how we rationalise our behaviour, and compartmentalise ourselves and push our own barrow in such a focussed way that we can ignore those wider visions and go after personal or tribal goals, and say that the ends justify the means., and that we are so deserving and should look to our own affairs, and to hell with everyone else. And to hell we will go if we do. As I think Abraham Lincoln
    said ‘We must all hang together, or surely we will hang separately.” Care for each other, but ensure we include ourselves is the idea surely so we progress upward together as a caring community.

  18. tom 19

    I have been reading The Peoples History of USA by Howard Zinn. It has been interersting reading for many reasons and highly recommended. With this debate on Identity politics it has highlighted some things i picked up from the book.
    The owning/ruling class have used identity politics as a wedge on the left throughout history, also the left have never gotten passed this and their own bias’s.
    Recurring thru history is unions not allowing blacks to be involved or woman or both, or allowing them to join but not fight equally for their rights as well. The ruling class used blacks as strike breakers, as because blacks were not an equal part of union were happy to strike break. Etc this all continues to go on with obvious different mechanisms (now not fought by use of strike breakers, but thru PR lines to wedge the left by identity as one of many examples), and even now although we have come a long way we still are stuck at this juncture.
    What i believe based on this, is that the right can keep using this against us while we let them, to prevent this, the left needs to find the common cause and find the empathy to think of the ‘other’, so we can assess best way to move all forward without leaving some behind.
    My opinion on recent events:
    When people raised in public rather than in prviate the issues with Wiliie Jackson they gave a wedge to the right, a gift of the gods to the bumbling fool the dipton double dipping dipshit, a fool with zero game and zero chance of the NZ public getting behind him like the did Key. Now the Right get to write the same old story about labour whether true or not and that bumbling fool and his joke of a sidekick pullya get a free ride to glory.
    This needed to be addressed but addressed in a manner in which not to give the Right and the MSM a free hand to portray the left as this.
    Even though the left naturally has many different facets, given the MSM and the Rights past use of this as a profitable exercise in diminishing the left in the eyes of the broader less politically minded public, this needs to be sorted by the left to have any chance in 2017.
    Keep it in house for gods sake, hiring a PR person was the worst case scenario and i cannot believe that she did that it is so ridiculous as to be laughable, if it didnt make ardent lefties cry.
    As someone deeply against TPPA for example, i know it would be stupid to continually highlight the differences I have with those in labour that are for TPPA publically, rather than in house have robust ongoing debate and try to find point of commonality and work from there.
    You can be publically critical of the issue but surely to be critical of your own party publically makes no sense except as a way to try to upset the party official lines to stroke one’s own ego and one’s own sense of right and go ‘na na nana na I know better than you Mr little’
    We know nats are split the same as labour are, but they have MSM on their side and massively funded PR hacks and seem to mainly keep it internal.
    We have to learn or we become redundant and die like the Whigs.

    • Carolyn_nth 19.1

      I agree Tom on the interconnection between economic and social justice that has a long history.

      On not making public challenges in the 21st century. This is a very difficult thing to do in the digital age, where many of the discussions are had in public.

      The initial problem with the William Jackson issues was internal to Labour. Little over-rode the standard process for selection, and that probably led to Williams going public.

      Labour of course, needs to manage their own processes and what they talk about publicly. But the rest of us non-party people need public discussions. It helps to inform the general public – we can’t expect them to join in political processes if we keep secret the important debates, agreements and disagreements.

      We need to find ways to work together, while acknowledging our differences. And it’s not a great idea to tell non-party people to STFU.

      • Carolyn_nth 19.1.1

        PS: maybe the way forward will be demonstrated by a collaborative approach between Labour and the Greens, while disagreeing on some matters?

  19. Ad 20

    Pretty odd when Rahm Emmanuel has strong common cause with Bernie Sanders on how to get the Democratic Party winning again:

    “It is not good enough for someone to say, ‘I’m a woman, vote for me,’” Sanders said after a November speech he delivered in Boston. “No, that’s not good enough. What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industry.”

    http://www.salon.com/2017/02/08/what-if-both-rahm-emanuel-and-bernie-sanders-are-right-chicago-mayor-offers-advice-democrats-may-not-want/?scrlybrkr

  20. The Outrider 21

    Thanks for the feedback everyone. I realise opinions will differ and hope that I will be able to contribute some food for thought once in a while.

  21. Michael 22

    The point missing is:

    Identity and class are not mutually exclusive. They intersect. Gender, race, sexuality, and class are all various forms of inequality and identity and they affect eachother. For example you can’t tackle sexism/racism without looking at class and you can’t tackle economic inequality without looking at sexism, racism, etc.

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    .“$10 and a target that bleeds” - Bleeding Targets for Under $10!.Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.This government appears hell-bent on either scrapping life-saving legislation or reintroducing things that - frustrated critics insist - will be dangerous and likely ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 days ago
  • Expert Opinion: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.
    It hardly strikes me as fair to criticise a government for doing exactly what it said it was going to do. For actually keeping its promises.”THUNDER WAS PLAYING TAG with lightning flashes amongst the distant peaks. Its rolling cadences interrupted by the here-I-come-here-I-go Doppler effect of the occasional passing car. ...
    3 days ago
  • Manufacturing The Truth.
    Subversive & Disruptive Technologies: Just as happened with that other great regulator of the masses, the Medieval Church, the advent of a new and hard-to-control technology – the Internet –  is weakening the ties that bind. Then, and now, those who enjoy a monopoly on the dissemination of lies, cannot and will ...
    3 days ago
  • A Powerful Sensation of Déjà Vu.
    Been Here Before: To find the precedents for what this Coalition Government is proposing, it is necessary to return to the “glory days” of Muldoonism.THE COALITION GOVERNMENT has celebrated its first 100 days in office by checking-off the last of its listed commitments. It remains, however, an angry government. It ...
    3 days ago
  • Can you guess where world attention is focussed (according to Greenpeace)? It’s focussed on an EPA...
    Bob Edlin writes –  And what is the world watching today…? The email newsletter from Associated Press which landed in our mailbox early this morning advised: In the news today: The father of a school shooter has been found guilty of involuntary manslaughter; prosecutors in Trump’s hush-money case ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • Further integrity problems for the Greens in suspending MP Darleen Tana
    Bryce Edwards writes – Is another Green MP on their way out? And are the Greens severely tarnished by another integrity scandal? For the second time in three months, the Green Party has secretly suspended an MP over integrity issues. Mystery is surrounding the party’s decision to ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Jacqui Van Der Kaay: Greens’ transparency missing in action
    For the last few years, the Green Party has been the party that has managed to avoid the plague of multiple scandals that have beleaguered other political parties. It appears that their luck has run out with a second scandal which, unfortunately for them, coincided with Golraz Ghahraman, the focus ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    4 days ago
  • Bernard’s Dawn Chorus with six newsey things at 6:46am for Saturday, March 16
    TL;DR: The six newsey things that stood out to me as of 6:46am on Saturday, March 16.Andy Foster has accidentally allowed a Labour/Green amendment to cut road user chargers for plug-in hybrid vehicles, which the Government might accept; NZ Herald Thomas Coughlan Simeon Brown has rejected a plea from Westport ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • How Did FTX Crash?
    What seemed a booming success a couple of years ago has collapsed into fraud convictions.I looked at the crash of FTX (short for ‘Futures Exchange’) in November 2022 to see whether it would impact on the financial system as a whole. Fortunately there was barely a ripple, probably because it ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    4 days ago
  • Elections in Russia and Ukraine
    Anybody following the situation in Ukraine and Russia would probably have been amused by a recent Tweet on X NATO seems to be putting in an awful lot of effort to influence what is, at least according to them, a sham election in an autocracy.When do the Ukrainians go to ...
    4 days ago
  • Bernard’s six stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15
    TL;DR: Shaun Baker on Wynyard Quarter's transformation. Magdalene Taylor on the problem with smart phones. How private equity are now all over reinsurance. Dylan Cleaver on rugby and CTE. Emily Atkin on ‘Big Meat’ looking like ‘Big Oil’.Bernard’s six-stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15Photo by Jeppe Hove Jensen ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Buzz from the Beehive Finance Minister Nicola Willis had plenty to say when addressing the Auckland Business Chamber on the economic growth that (she tells us) is flagging more than we thought. But the government intends to put new life into it:  We want our country to be a ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • National’s clean car tax advances
    The Transport and Infrastructure Committee has reported back on the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill, basicly rubberstamping it. While there was widespread support among submitters for the principle that EV and PHEV drivers should pay their fair share for the roads, they also overwhelmingly disagreed with ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Government funding bailouts
    Peter Dunne writes – This week’s government bailout – the fifth in the last eighteen months – of the financially troubled Ruapehu Alpine Lifts company would have pleased many in the central North Island ski industry. The government’s stated rationale for the $7 million funding was that it ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Two offenders, different treatments.
    See if you can spot the difference. An Iranian born female MP from a progressive party is accused of serial shoplifting. Her name is leaked to the media, which goes into a pack frenzy even before the Police launch an … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • Treaty references omitted
    Ele Ludemann writes  – The government is omitting general Treaty references from legislation : The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last Government in a bid to get greater coherence in the public service on Treaty ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • The Ghahraman Conflict
    What was that judge thinking? Peter Williams writes –  That Golriz Ghahraman and District Court Judge Maria Pecotic were once lawyer colleagues is incontrovertible. There is published evidence that they took at least one case to the Court of Appeal together. There was a report on ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 15
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Climate Scorpion – the sting is in the tail. Introducing planetary solvency. A paper via the University of Exeter’s Institute and Faculty of Actuaries.Local scoop: Kāinga Ora starts pulling out of its Auckland projects and selling land RNZ ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • The day Wellington up-zoned its future
    Wellington’s massively upzoned District Plan adds the opportunity for tens of thousands of new homes not just in the central city (such as these Webb St new builds) but also close to the CBD and public transport links. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Wellington gave itself the chance of ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 15-March-2024
    It’s Friday and we’re halfway through March Madness. Here’s some of the things that caught our attention this week. This Week in Greater Auckland On Monday Matt asked how we can get better event trains and an option for grade separating Morningside Dr. On Tuesday Matt looked into ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    5 days ago
  • That Word.
    Something you might not know about me is that I’m quite a stubborn person. No, really. I don’t much care for criticism I think’s unfair or that I disagree with. Few of us do I suppose.Back when I was a drinker I’d sometimes respond defensively, even angrily. There are things ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to March 15
    Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:PM Christopher Luxon said the reversal of interest deductibility for landlords was done to help renters, who ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Labour’s policy gap
    It was not so much the Labour Party but really the Chris Hipkins party yesterday at Labour’s caucus retreat in Martinborough. The former Prime Minister was more or less consistent on wealth tax, which he was at best equivocal about, and social insurance, which he was not willing to revisit. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #11 2024
    Open access notables A Glimpse into the Future: The 2023 Ocean Temperature and Sea Ice Extremes in the Context of Longer-Term Climate Change, Kuhlbrodt et al., Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society: In the year 2023, we have seen extraordinary extrema in high sea surface temperature (SST) in the North Atlantic and in ...
    5 days ago
  • Melissa remains mute on media matters but has something to say (at a sporting event) about economic ...
     Buzz from the Beehive   The text reproduced above appears on a page which records all the media statements and speeches posted on the government’s official website by Melissa Lee as Minister of Media and Communications and/or by Jenny Marcroft, her Parliamentary Under-secretary.  It can be quickly analysed ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago
  • The return of Muldoon
    For forty years, Robert Muldoon has been a dirty word in our politics. His style of government was so repulsive and authoritarian that the backlash to it helped set and entrench our constitutional norms. His pig-headedness over forcing through Think Big eventually gave us the RMA, with its participation and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Will the rental tax cut improve life for renters or landlords?
    Bryce Edwards writes –  Is the new government reducing tax on rental properties to benefit landlords or to cut the cost of rents? That’s the big question this week, after Associate Finance Minister David Seymour announced on Sunday that the Government would be reversing the Labour Government’s removal ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: What Saudi Arabia’s rapid changes mean for New Zealand
    Saudi Arabia is rarely far from the international spotlight. The war in Gaza has brought new scrutiny to Saudi plans to normalise relations with Israel, while the fifth anniversary of the controversial killing of Jamal Khashoggi was marked shortly before the war began on October 7. And as the home ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    5 days ago
  • Racism’s double standards
    Questions need to be asked on both sides of the world Peter Williams writes –   The NRL Judiciary hands down an eight week suspension to Sydney Roosters forward Spencer Leniu , an Auckland-born Samoan, after he calls Ezra Mam, Sydney-orn but of Aboriginal and Torres Strait ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • It’s not a tax break
    Ele Ludemann writes – Contrary to what many headlines and news stories are saying, residential landlords are not getting a tax break. The government is simply restoring to them the tax deductibility of interest they had until the previous government removed it. There is no logical reason ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • The Plastic Pig Collective and Chris' Imaginary Friends.
    I can't remember when it was goodMoments of happiness in bloomMaybe I just misunderstoodAll of the love we left behindWatching our flashbacks intertwineMemories I will never findIn spite of whatever you becomeForget that reckless thing turned onI think our lives have just begunI think our lives have just begunDoes anyone ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • Who is responsible for young offenders?
    Michael Bassett writes – At first reading, a front-page story in the New Zealand Herald on 13 March was bizarre. A group of severely intellectually limited teenagers, with little understanding of the law, have been pleading to the Justice Select Committee not to pass a bill dealing with ram ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on National’s fantasy trip to La La Landlord Land
    How much political capital is Christopher Luxon willing to burn through in order to deliver his $2.9 billion gift to landlords? Evidently, Luxon is: (a) unable to cost the policy accurately. As Anna Burns-Francis pointed out to him on Breakfast TV, the original ”rock solid” $2.1 billion cost he was ...
    5 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 14
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Jonathon Porritt calling bullshit in his own blog post on mainstream climate science as ‘The New Denialism’.Local scoop: The Wellington City Council’s list of proposed changes to the IHP recommendations to be debated later today was leaked this ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • No, Prime Minister, rents don’t rise or fall with landlords’ costs
    TL;DR: Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said yesterday tenants should be grateful for the reinstatement of interest deductibility because landlords would pass on their lower tax costs in the form of lower rents. That would be true if landlords were regulated monopolies such as Transpower or Auckland Airport1, but they’re not, ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • Cartoons: ‘At least I didn’t make things awkward’
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Tom Toro Tom Toro is a cartoonist and author. He has published over 200 cartoons in The New Yorker since 2010. His cartoons appear in Playboy, the Paris Review, the New York Times, American Bystander, and elsewhere. Related: What 10 EV lovers ...
    6 days ago
  • Solving traffic congestion with Richard Prebble
    The business section of the NZ Herald is full of opinion. Among the more opinionated of all is the ex-Minister of Transport, ex-Minister of Railways, ex MP for Auckland Central (1975-93, Labour), Wellington Central (1996-99, ACT, then list-2005), ex-leader of the ACT Party, uncle to actor Antonia, the veritable granddaddy ...
    Greater AucklandBy Patrick Reynolds
    6 days ago
  • I Think I'm Done Flying Boeing
    Hi,Just quickly — I’m blown away by the stories you’ve shared with me over the last week since I put out the ‘Gary’ podcast, where I told you about the time my friend’s flatmate killed the neighbour.And you keep telling me stories — in the comments section, and in my ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    6 days ago
  • Invoking Aristotle: Of Rings of Power, Stones, and Ships
    The first season of Rings of Power was not awful. It was thoroughly underwhelming, yes, and left a lingering sense of disappointment, but it was more expensive mediocrity than catastrophe. I wrote at length about the series as it came out (see the Review section of the blog, and go ...
    6 days ago
  • Van Velden brings free-market approach to changing labour laws – but her colleagues stick to distr...
    Buzz from the Beehive Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden told Auckland Business Chamber members they were the first audience to hear her priorities as a minister in a government committed to cutting red tape and regulations. She brandished her liberalising credentials, saying Flexible labour markets are the ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • Why Newshub failed
    Chris Trotter writes – TO UNDERSTAND WHY NEWSHUB FAILED, it is necessary to understand how TVNZ changed. Up until 1989, the state broadcaster had been funded by a broadcasting licence fee, collected from every citizen in possession of a television set, supplemented by a relatively modest (compared ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • Māori Party on the warpath against landlords and seabed miners – let’s see if mystical creature...
    Bob Edlin writes  –  The Māori Party has been busy issuing a mix of warnings and threats as its expresses its opposition to interest deductibility for landlords and the plans of seabed miners. It remains to be seen whether they  follow the example of indigenous litigants in Australia, ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago

  • Government moves to quickly ratify the NZ-EU FTA
    "The Government is moving quickly to realise an additional $46 million in tariff savings in the EU market this season for Kiwi exporters,” Minister for Trade and Agriculture, Todd McClay says. Parliament is set, this week, to complete the final legislative processes required to bring the New Zealand – European ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Positive progress for social worker workforce
    New Zealand’s social workers are qualified, experienced, and more representative of the communities they serve, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “I want to acknowledge and applaud New Zealand’s social workers for the hard work they do, providing invaluable support for our most vulnerable. “To coincide with World ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • Minister confirms reduced RUC rate for PHEVs
    Cabinet has agreed to a reduced road user charge (RUC) rate for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. Owners of PHEVs will be eligible for a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000km once all light electric vehicles (EVs) move into the RUC system from 1 April.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    12 hours ago
  • Trade access to overseas markets creates jobs
    Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McClay, says that today’s opening of Riverland Foods manufacturing plant in Christchurch is a great example of how trade access to overseas markets creates jobs in New Zealand.  Speaking at the official opening of this state-of-the-art pet food factory the Minister noted that exports ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • NZ and Chinese Foreign Ministers hold official talks
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Wellington today. “It was a pleasure to host Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his first official visit to New Zealand since 2017. Our discussions were wide-ranging and enabled engagement on many facets of New Zealand’s relationship with China, including trade, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Kāinga Ora instructed to end Sustaining Tenancies
    Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities has been instructed to end the Sustaining Tenancies Framework and take stronger measures against persistent antisocial behaviour by tenants, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Earlier today Finance Minister Nicola Willis and I sent an interim Letter of Expectations to the Board of Kāinga Ora. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Speech to Auckland Business Chamber: Growth is the answer
    Tēna koutou katoa. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Honourable Simon Bridges for hosting this address today. I acknowledge the business leaders in this room, the leaders and governors, the employers, the entrepreneurs, the investors, and the wealth creators. The coalition Government shares your ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Singapore rounds out regional trip
    Minister Winston Peters completed the final leg of his visit to South and South East Asia in Singapore today, where he focused on enhancing one of New Zealand’s indispensable strategic partnerships.      “Singapore is our most important defence partner in South East Asia, our fourth-largest trading partner and a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister van Velden represents New Zealand at International Democracy Summit
    Minister of Internal Affairs and Workplace Relations and Safety, Hon. Brooke van Velden, will travel to the Republic of Korea to represent New Zealand at the Third Summit for Democracy on 18 March. The summit, hosted by the Republic of Korea, was first convened by the United States in 2021, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Insurance Council of NZ Speech, 7 March 2024, Auckland
    ICNZ Speech 7 March 2024, Auckland  Acknowledgements and opening  Mōrena, ngā mihi nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho.  Good morning, it’s a privilege to be here to open the ICNZ annual conference, thank you to Mark for the Mihi Whakatau  My thanks to Tim Grafton for inviting me ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Five-year anniversary of Christchurch terror attacks
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Lead Coordination Minister Judith Collins have expressed their deepest sympathy on the five-year anniversary of the Christchurch terror attacks. “March 15, 2019, was a day when families, communities and the country came together both in sorrow and solidarity,” Mr Luxon says.  “Today we pay our respects to the 51 shuhada ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024
    Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024  Acknowledgements and opening  Morena, Nga Mihi Nui.  Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Thanks Nate for your Mihi Whakatau  Good morning. It’s a pleasure to formally open your conference this morning. What a lovely day in Wellington, What a great ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Early visit to Indonesia strengthens ties
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters held discussions in Jakarta today about the future of relations between New Zealand and South East Asia’s most populous country.   “We are in Jakarta so early in our new government’s term to reflect the huge importance we place on our relationship with Indonesia and South ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • China Foreign Minister to visit
    Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters has announced that the Foreign Minister of China, Wang Yi, will visit New Zealand next week.  “We look forward to re-engaging with Foreign Minister Wang Yi and discussing the full breadth of the bilateral relationship, which is one of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister opens new Auckland Rail Operations Centre
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre, which will bring together KiwiRail, Auckland Transport, and Auckland One Rail to improve service reliability for Aucklanders. “The recent train disruptions in Auckland have highlighted how important it is KiwiRail and Auckland’s rail agencies work together to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Celebrating 10 years of Crankworx Rotorua
    The Government is proud to support the 10th edition of Crankworx Rotorua as the Crankworx World Tour returns to Rotorua from 16-24 March 2024, says Minister for Economic Development Melissa Lee.  “Over the past 10 years as Crankworx Rotorua has grown, so too have the economic and social benefits that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government delivering on tax commitments
    Legislation implementing coalition Government tax commitments and addressing long-standing tax anomalies will be progressed in Parliament next week, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The legislation is contained in an Amendment Paper to the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill issued today.  “The Amendment Paper represents ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Significant Natural Areas requirement to be suspended
    Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard has today announced that the Government has agreed to suspend the requirement for councils to comply with the Significant Natural Areas (SNA) provisions of the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity for three years, while it replaces the Resource Management Act (RMA).“As it stands, SNAs ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government classifies drought conditions in Top of the South as medium-scale adverse event
    Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has classified the drought conditions in the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts as a medium-scale adverse event, acknowledging the challenging conditions facing farmers and growers in the district. “Parts of Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are in the grip of an intense dry spell. I know ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government partnership to tackle $332m facial eczema problem
    The Government is helping farmers eradicate the significant impact of facial eczema (FE) in pastoral animals, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced.  “A $20 million partnership jointly funded by Beef + Lamb NZ, the Government, and the primary sector will save farmers an estimated NZD$332 million per year, and aims to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • NZ, India chart path to enhanced relationship
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has completed a successful visit to India, saying it was an important step in taking the relationship between the two countries to the next level.   “We have laid a strong foundation for the Coalition Government’s priority of enhancing New Zealand-India relations to generate significant future benefit for both countries,” says Mr Peters, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Ruapehu Alpine Lifts bailout the last, say Ministers
    Cabinet has agreed to provide $7 million to ensure the 2024 ski season can go ahead on the Whakapapa ski field in the central North Island but has told the operator Ruapehu Alpine Lifts it is the last financial support it will receive from taxpayers. Cabinet also agreed to provide ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt takes action to drive better cancer services
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt takes action to drive better cancer services
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Work begins on SH29 upgrades near Tauriko
    Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Work begins on SH29 upgrades near Tauriko
    Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Fresh produce price drop welcome
    Lower fruit and vegetable prices are welcome news for New Zealanders who have been doing it tough at the supermarket, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. Stats NZ reported today the price of fruit and vegetables has dropped 9.3 percent in the 12 months to February 2024.  “Lower fruit and vege ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Statement to the 68th United Nations Commission on the Status of Women
    Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all.  Chair, I am honoured to address the sixty-eighth session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Speech to the 68th United Nations Commission on the Status of Women (CSW68)
    Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all.  Chair, I am honoured to address the 68th session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government backs rural led catchment projects
    The coalition Government is supporting farmers to enhance land management practices by investing $3.3 million in locally led catchment groups, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “Farmers and growers deliver significant prosperity for New Zealand and it’s vital their ongoing efforts to improve land management practices and water quality are supported,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Speech to Auckland Business Chamber
    Good evening everyone and thank you for that lovely introduction.   Thank you also to the Honourable Simon Bridges for the invitation to address your members. Since being sworn in, this coalition Government has hit the ground running with our 100-day plan, delivering the changes that New Zealanders expect of us. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Commission’s advice on ETS settings tabled
    Recommendations from the Climate Change Commission for New Zealand on the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) auction and unit limit settings for the next five years have been tabled in Parliament, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “The Commission provides advice on the ETS annually. This is the third time the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government lowering building costs
    The coalition Government is beginning its fight to lower building costs and reduce red tape by exempting minor building work from paying the building levy, says Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk. “Currently, any building project worth $20,444 including GST or more is subject to the building levy which is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Trustee tax change welcomed
    Proposed changes to tax legislation to prevent the over-taxation of low-earning trusts are welcome, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The changes have been recommended by Parliament’s Finance and Expenditure Committee following consideration of submissions on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill. “One of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister’s Ramadan message
    Assalaamu alaikum. السَّلَام عليكم In light of the holy month of Ramadan, I want to extend my warmest wishes to our Muslim community in New Zealand. Ramadan is a time for spiritual reflection, renewed devotion, perseverance, generosity, and forgiveness.  It’s a time to strengthen our bonds and appreciate the diversity ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister appoints new NZTA Chair
    Former Transport Minister and CEO of the Auckland Business Chamber Hon Simon Bridges has been appointed as the new Board Chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) for a three-year term, Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced today. “Simon brings extensive experience and knowledge in transport policy and governance to the role. He will ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to Life Sciences Summit
    Good morning all, it is a pleasure to be here as Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology.  It is fantastic to see how connected and collaborative the life science and biotechnology industry is here in New Zealand. I would like to thank BioTechNZ and NZTech for the invitation to address ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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  • Progress continues apace on water storage
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