As we all know, the Right has, at times, harnessed a latent racism that runs deep in parts of this culture. We saw it with National’s Iwi/Kiwi and we see it in everything Lhaws does.
Don’t get me wrong toad – i very much enjoy your posts here and on Channel 2 and you seem to be both well connected and have well thought out positions.
However, in this case, you seem to show a bit of the arrogance and superiority with the liberal left – the people choose but only when we let them choose.
Personally, I have no view on the super shitty (long time since I left AK) but would have liked to see Maori seats. Happy to see Whanganui.
But if you think it’s only right that the majority can decide whether to proceed with the super city then you should have no issue with the majority deciding other matters of concern.
My view is that is what Governments are elected to do – make decisions.
I think this is all a massive waste of time, effort and money, however…
Correct me if I am wrong but wasn’t Maori an oral language prior to the settlor’s arrival – in which case how can there be any evidence suggesting the spelling of the name being correct or incorrect – surely any Maori spelling is going to come down to phonetics?
jagilby, I covered this in my submission to the NZGB.
Excerpt:
The spelling of the name of the pre-European settlement has been determined by the legitimate authority, Te Taura Whiri Reo MÄori, to be ‘Whanganui’; this is the spelling of the name of the river on whose mouth the city is located, the spelling of which was previously agreed by both MÄori and PÄkehÄ residents […] if the word is not a MÄori word, then the local iwi’s pronunciation is irrelevant. If it is, then PÄkehÄ have no right to redefine it without the consent of iwi. The MÄori language is clearly included in the meaning of ‘tÄonga katoa’ as used in Te Tiriti o Waitangi (article 2) and rights to possession (‘rangatiratanga’) are similarly guaranteed.
the claim that local MÄori pronunciation renders the ‘h’ silent is no cause for the word to be spelt differently except with the consent of those with the original claim to the word and its pronunciation. There are precedents for this among other iwi/hapÅ« and in other rohe for example, the rendition of ‘ng’ as ‘k’ by some KÄi Tahu/NgÄi Tahu, as in ‘Aoraki’ rather than ‘Aorangi’. But in the case in point, those who are legitimately entitled under the Treaty to claim that ‘Whanganui’ should be pronounced ‘Wanganui’ as a matter of preserving their control over their tÄonga are not doing so; in fact, quite the opposite. Te RÅ«nanga o Tupoho, a subset of the very people whose consent should be required to retain the spelling as ‘Wanganui’, is campaigning for the change to ‘Whanganui’. Likewise Wanganui residents who complain that they don’t want their city’s name pronounced ‘Fonganui’ are, with due respect, not legitimately entitled to change or retain a spelling for that purpose without the consent of those for whom the name is tÄonga, and whose possession is guaranteed by the Treaty.
Thanks Lew for clearing that up. Just wasn’t sure. Makes sense if they agreed on words to use them.
In any case I fail to see how this has suddenly become such an emotive issue nearly 170 years after the fact. With all due respect I think that Maoridom are facing far more pressing issues that don’t seem to elicit the same level of raw emotion. Anecdotally (through talking to Maori friends of mine etc) this is as much a frustration of Maori as it is the rest of the country… when will we stop placing so much focus on these minor issues?
“They don’t have different versions of written english for all the various ways she is spake throughout the world.The written version is fairly consistent.”
Sure but that was my point, My understanding was that Maori was an oral language, the same can’t be said for English (so I think you’re really grasping straws to link the two) – unless you are saying that Maori also developed the English alphabet through pure coincidence? The only way to initially derive a written Maori language surely must have been to use phonetics – as Lew pointed out with spellings being mutually agreed between Maori and Pakeha. The only thing I found interesting about your allusion to accents in this instance was the fact tha some have actually argued that it was the local W-h-anganui dialect the confused the spelling in the first place.
What I really can’t understand out of this whole affair though is that, of the 889 submissions received by the NZGB, 9 were neutral. Who goes to all the trouble/ has time to write a neutral submission???
It’s always been an important issue, and people who care strongly about it have been using ‘Whanganui’ for decades (even though sometimes it means their mail ends up in Whangarei). It’s just only really come to a head now because people have only now exercised their access to the proper channels.
MÄori was an oral language, but it was quite quickly codified into a written orthography — several times, though the definitive one is H.W Williams’ A Dictionary of the MÄori Language (1844), in which both the words ‘whanga’ and ‘nui’ were included with those spellings. The language was rendered into written form according to a systematic process, as languages are – it wasn’t random or full of exceptions and oddities. The words have their ordinary meaning in the name, so there’s no reason at all why they shouldn’t have their ordinary spelling.
They don’t have different versions of written english for all the various ways she is spake throughout the world.The written version is fairly consistent.
‘Wanga’ as a part of the written version of the language doesn’t mean anything, it isn’t a word.
I don’t dispute it is/was an issue… its relative importance as an issue, well I’m afraid that is something that that I dispute.
I just can’t believe that we are quite literally arguing semantics given all the other problems we face currently.
Discussion on Radio Live: it’s classic Key-speak (i.e. barely intelligible, because clarity is the enemy of popularity), but it sounds like he’s backing Laws:
MICHAEL LAWS: Well you know you may actually or your Government – well as you know will be the final arbiter on that. What’s your view of local democracy?
JOHN KEY: Yeah, well we try and listen to local people where we can. The – I don’t know, it’s a bit of an interesting debate, isn’t it?
MICHAEL LAWS: Well seriously – I just, you know, I didn’t mean to talk about that this morning but it will come to you, it will come to the Government because the final decision’s not made by the New Zealand Geographic Board.
But four out of five Wanganui people voted – at the referendum this year, I think 19,000 people voted, and 80 per cent of them said listen, keep things as they are. Is that persuasive for you?
JOHN KEY: Yeah, well, it sounds like a pretty strong argument. I haven’t waded my way through the whole thing other than just sort of occasionally hearing it, you know, bubbling along in the background. But, yeah, I mean in the end it should be ultimately the decision I would have thought for local people.
MICHAEL LAWS: Thank you. I’m delighted to hear that.
Did either Laws or Key manage a single intelligible sentence in that conversation?
Oh and in honour of Michael Laws’ insistence on incorrect spelling he shall henceforth be referred to as: Mikael Laus, Mare of Wanganui (until he learns to spell at which point Michael Laws, Mayor of Whanganui will be appropriate once more).
My name originates in France. When a Maori, Eskimo or Ethiopian etc spells or pronounces my name wrongly I politely correct them. I dont however give them the privelege of telling me how it really should be. Its mine and from my culture. Even if there are 4 Eskimos arguing I am wrong versus me (80% versus 20%) they are still wrong.
What about Whanganui belonging to Maori language and culture does Laws not understand? Who knows if Laws is racist? He is definitely ignorant.
I can’t help agreeing with Dr Grant – Whanganui was incorrectly spelt and and its misspelling offended the speakers of the language ‘lending’ the name. Mr Laws needs to take a deep breath and ponder….but, on reflection, it is a vain hope.
And perhaps Mr Key should remain silent on these things until briefed – one can see another clash with the Maori Party heading over the horizon if his government bends to Mr Laws’ position. And Mr Williamson is an ideal minister to make the final decision…..noted for his guarded prudence…..
what a dumb-assed comment from the PM. Maori is one of New Zealand’s national languages, therefore maori place names should be spelt correctly. It is beyond belief that this is an issue.
Use of a national language is not a matter for local referenda . ..
So if the H is brought in, how much will that little exercise cost and who carries the bill ?
a) All Road Signs in Area
b) All Street Maps
c) All Local Business – Change letter head, business cards, etc
d) GPS applications
e) All Companies that correspond with people in the area
One of the Massey Uni boffins should do a costing exercise, if it turns out that it will cost tens of millions of dollars (which it will do), just flick a couple of hundred $K at the local Iwi instead as settlement of the ‘grievance’.
It’s in times like these where we need to cut all frivolous expenditure.
Or the various affected parties could just update their bits and pieces as they fall due for replacement. Road signs are crashed into or vandalised regularly, businesses use their stationery up and re-order more, GPS applications are updated all the time, it doesn’t have to be a biggie.
The District Council should send the bill to Double Dipton, vidiot.
I’m sure his accommodation expenses will cover it, because road signs are the only ones that probably need attention immediately. Changing web presence costs stuff all, and the rest like letterheads can wait until existing stock runs out. As for businesses, well, it’s up to them. I can’t imagine anythign is going to go astray if they don’t use the “h”.
Way back in the 70’s I was fortunate enough to be in the middle of nowhere camping with a group of people which included a few Maori elders. I was young and these old chaps and I spent a few nights sitting around the fire talking shit about NZ, the stars and the stories of the past. I heard some really interesting stories in the timeless word of mouth fashion that legends are passed down via.
During one conversation I asked about the ‘wh’ sound and one of the old boys told me to stop talking like a educated white boy. He said to me;
Back when he was skipping off school speaking Maori in school earned you the cane. He also went on to say that having no written language the spelling of Maori words was entirely at the discretion of the English who were arrogant as hell about their language. He asked me – Do you really think that the arrogant English would have invented a new language construct to represent a sound they heard when that sound as spoken today was already well covered by the “ph” or “f” sound ?
He said the words were different from place to place anyway, and that the whole “wh” nonsense was getting out of hand. (remember this was the 70’s…)
I’m in no way saying having ‘wh’ is wrong for Whanganui, because the owners of that word/name have the right to dictate how it we should say and spell it – but that old boys words stuck with me at the time and ever since then I’ve wondered who really is right and wrong here.
Im on the side of the people, if they voted for the H, put it in, if the whole country had a vote to change the name of New Zealand to Aotearoa, and people voted for change, I say change it.
If 80% of people in a town vote for something, then do it, I dont think outsiders to the town should have a say, its about community.
lets see .. 170 or so years ago, some white guys turn up on the West Coast by a river and meet some local Maori and say “hi, my names Jon (or is it John), this is a nice place, what’s it called?” .. Wanganui they say .. really, how do you spell that? .. buggered if I know they say .. well then, says Jon, (or is it John), how about if we spell it Wanganui? .. looks ok to us say the locals and there we have it, simple.
BUT, there is always a but, a decade or so later, white guys and brown guys meet up and somewhere (maybe Petone which could be next) and get talking over some rum and roast kumera and they all notice that the Wanganui Maori talk funny .. or is it the other Maori talk funny (hard for me to know because I wasn’t there) anyway, they have a chat and decide that maybe there could be a translation problem. Now, from I have read, the Wanganui Maori were beaten up by both the Poms and fellow Maori during the wars so it was determind that the Wanganui tribes can’t speak properly so they lose again. Maybe if they were stronger, we would have Wangarei and Wakatane etc .. there you go, an alternative version and who was actually there to say I’m wrong.
gee I hear you say .. racist redneck.
ps .. couldn’t be bothered with all the ” ” and ?’s.
So Bored .. what is the correct pronounciation of Wanganui .. what about Whanau.
It would be good for you to compare with say Ms Turia. I wonder if you would be happy to be corrected and pronounce such words her way in future.
This is a good point but as an argument it falls down. There was only one dialect involved in the creation of the written Maori language over a few short years.
burt, I don’t see the point you’re making. Is it that the Wiremu-based orthography in current use does not represent the Whanganui dialect? If so, that is a matter for the Whanganui iwi to take up — not a bunch of latter-day settlers who don’t speak the dialect anyway (bar one word of it which they perversely claim isn’t a MÄori word anyhow).
The people whose dialect it is (that is, those who are guaranteed ‘possession’ of it under Article 2 of the Treaty) have made their decision. That’s the core rebuttal of all dialect-based arguments against Whanganui.
I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. I have no issues with the ‘h’. Really as far as I can see it’s the right of the people who claim ownership of the name to describe how it is said and ultimately how we should spell it.
I totally agree that the same words are said differently in different dialects and believe that was the case in NZ with Maori in the 1800’s. For some reason now we need to standardise it – this I disagree with. I don’t think it’s likely the English wrote down anything other than what they heard at the time and therefore separate dialects may not be adequately catered for with a single spelling as defined by a small group of 1800’s English speakers.
As far as I’m concerned if some Maori want to say ‘Wanau’ and others ‘Fanau’ then so what. Who are we to say that because it is starts with ‘Wh’ if must be said ‘Fa’ when we don’t allow alternate spellings.
thank god for Lew .. you are so right.
can you imagine a bloke from Liverpool going to any town/city in Yorkshire and telling the locals they don’t pronounce English correctly? bif/bash/smack.
What you are saying is the crux of what the problem is. The variation on how to say English words is hard enough so how an I suppose to get Maori correct when they can’t get it it the same themselves .. we need more Lews.
Or Rochelle’s. She routinely corrects her Maori surrogate fathers pronunciation with the full blessing of his mother and family. Lyn thinks that my spoken english is terrible because I know the words, their meaning, but I’ve only ever seen them written. I seem to be under tuition during most discussions with her.
On the other hand, I’m a master of the computer dialects. I lost count of how many I knew in my 20’s at about 45, and I routinely pick up 4 or 5 per year. I just finished sucking up python which took about 5 days to go from ignorance to literate. Next up is the WPF language xaml because I need to get directx into web pages.
“Correct” spelling can only exist if there is an existing written language. Even then correct spelling is contentious.
Maori was never a written language. It cannot therefore have a spelling.
All languages in constant and useful use are always changing in pronunciation,
and, if written, changing in spelling..
All languages, worldwide, have undergone huge changes in word adoption, adaptation, pronunciation and (God help us,spelling).
All languages have dialectical differences.
Spelling does not change pronunciation.
The way most pakeha pronounce “Taupo” or “Tauranga” is not the way most Maori
pronounce it (depending which part of the country they come from ,of course.)
In culturally secure countries pronunciation, let alone spelling , is a non event.
This whole topic is about Ken Mair trying to make himself important.
Peter, this issue rests on the question “When was the MÄori language?”
The answer is that it is. MÄori was not a written language, but it is one now (and has been one for almost a couple hundred years). There is now a universally-accepted orthography and lexicography, and a huge amount of documentation establishing the provenance and correctness of same. It is one of the most thoroughly-documented and well-used indigenous minority languages in the world. There is quite literally no credible dissent to these well-established norms. Under this system, there is one (1) spelling of the word meaning ‘big harbour’ after which the city at the mouth of the river of the same name was called, and it has an h in it.
This is not some countercultural mumbo-jumbo; this is quite simply how language works.
But, hey — it’s cool, if it gets your wheels spinning, keep at it. Your (and Michael Laws’) position is simply not supported by evidence. The more you keep at it, the more obvious you make this. Please — have at it.
Peter: So? Your argument shows an abysmal ignorance of the history of the english written language.
On that basis you’d also say that english has the same issue. It wasn’t formalised until the 18th century when the first dictionaries were written. Less than a century before Maori.
It wasn’t until the 16th century that any significant body of written literature emerged in english. It is largely unreadable to any modern reader because the spelling was pretty much up to the taste of the author. I’d suggest having a look in the rare books section of your local university or major public library.
English was and still is an oral language. The biggest group of english speakers in world are in the indian subcontinent. While they can out-talk almost any group that I know, it is as hard to understand them as it is to understand someone from Alabama.
The biggest written language in the world, Mandarin bears little resemblance to the spoken form of the language. For that matter the most ancient written languages in the western world like Latin and classical Greek show the same characteristics. We can read them, but we have no idea about how they were spoken – just a lot of guesswork.
Written languages only have a passing relationship with the spoken. What we are talking about here is a written bastardization of a place name by mapmakers who couldn’t ‘hear’ how the locals pronounced a name. Since it is a local Maori name, they should be able to determine the spelling.
Your arguments are just spurious. You claim an authority that simply doesn’t exist, about something you know little about. Personally I just ascribe it to an inherent mindless bigotry.
Yep… There is a reason for having an authoritative name for people, things and places. Personally I always pronounce Onehunga as One-hung-a and I won’t even attempt to to describe how I pronounce Newton or Ponsonby.
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In today’s digital age, mobile devices have become an indispensable part of our daily lives. Among the vast array of portable computing options available, iPads and tablet computers stand out as two prominent contenders. While both offer similar functionalities, there are subtle yet significant differences between these two devices. This ...
A computer is an electronic device that can be programmed to carry out a set of instructions. The basic components of a computer are the processor, memory, storage, input devices, and output devices. The Processor The processor, also known as the central processing unit (CPU), is the brain of the ...
Voice Memos is a convenient app on your iPhone that allows you to quickly record and store audio snippets. These recordings can be useful for a variety of purposes, such as taking notes, capturing ideas, or recording interviews. While you can listen to your voice memos on your iPhone, you ...
Laptop screens are essential for interacting with our devices and accessing information. However, when lines appear on the screen, it can be frustrating and disrupt productivity. Understanding the underlying causes of these lines is crucial for finding effective solutions. Types of Screen Lines Horizontal lines: Also known as scan ...
Right-clicking is a common and essential computer operation that allows users to access additional options and settings. While most desktop computers have dedicated right-click buttons on their mice, laptops often do not have these buttons due to space limitations. This article will provide a comprehensive guide on how to right-click ...
Powering up and shutting down your ASUS laptop is an essential task for any laptop user. Locating the power button can sometimes be a hassle, especially if you’re new to ASUS laptops. This article will provide a comprehensive guide on where to find the power button on different ASUS laptop ...
Dell laptops are renowned for their reliability, performance, and versatility. Whether you’re a student, a professional, or just someone who needs a reliable computing device, a Dell laptop can meet your needs. However, if you’re new to Dell laptops, you may be wondering how to get started. In this comprehensive ...
Two-thirds of the country think that “New Zealand’s economy is rigged to advantage the rich and powerful”. They also believe that “New Zealand needs a strong leader to take the country back from the rich and powerful”. These are just two of a handful of stunning new survey results released ...
In today’s digital world, screenshots have become an indispensable tool for communication and documentation. Whether you need to capture an important email, preserve a website page, or share an error message, screenshots allow you to quickly and easily preserve digital information. If you’re an Asus laptop user, there are several ...
A factory reset restores your Gateway laptop to its original factory settings, erasing all data, apps, and personalizations. This can be necessary to resolve software issues, remove viruses, or prepare your laptop for sale or transfer. Here’s a step-by-step guide on how to factory reset your Gateway laptop: Method 1: ...
“You talking about me?”The neoliberal denigration of the past was nowhere more unrelenting than in its depiction of the public service. The Post Office and the Railways were held up as being both irremediably inefficient and scandalously over-manned. Playwright Roger Hall’s “Glide Time” caricatures were presented as accurate depictions of ...
Roger Partridge writes – When the Coalition Government took office last October, it inherited a country on a precipice. With persistent inflation, decades of insipid productivity growth and crises in healthcare, education, housing and law and order, it is no exaggeration to suggest New Zealand’s first-world status was ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – In 2022, the Curriculum Centre at the Ministry of Education employed 308 staff, according to an Official Information Request. Earlier this week it was announced 202 of those staff were being cut. When you look up “The New Zealand Curriculum” on the Ministry of ...
Chris Bishop’s bill has stirred up a hornets nest of opposition. Photo: Lynn Grieveson for The KākāTL;DR: The six things that stood out to me in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, poverty and climate from the last day included:A crescendo of opposition to the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill is ...
Monday left me brokenTuesday, I was through with hopingWednesday, my empty arms were openThursday, waiting for love, waiting for loveThe end of another week that left many of us asking WTF? What on earth has NZ gotten itself into and how on earth could people have voluntarily signed up for ...
Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.State of humanity, 20242024, it feels, keeps presenting us with ever more challenges, ever more dismay.Do you give up yet? It seems to ask.No? How about this? Or this?How about this?Full story Share ...
Determining the hardest sport in the world is a subjective matter, as the difficulty level can vary depending on individual abilities, physical attributes, and experience. However, based on various factors including physical demands, technical skills, mental fortitude, and overall accomplishment, here is an exploration of some of the most challenging ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
The Government’s newly announced review of methane emissions reduction targets hints at its desire to delay Aotearoa New Zealand’s urgent transition to a climate safe future, the Green Party said. ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra In the free-for-all between the Australian government and Big Tech boss Elon Musk this week, the government had to be on a winner. Most people would have little sympathy with Musk’s vociferous opposition to ...
Asia Pacific Report Chief Mandla Mandela, a member of the National Assembly of South Africa and Nelson Mandela’s grandson, has joined the Freedom Flotilla in istanbul as the ships prepare to sail for Gaza, reports Kia Ora Gaza. Mandela is also the ambassador for the Global Campaign to Return to ...
Pacific Media Watch Journalists who report on environmental issues are encountering growing difficulties in many parts of the world, reports Reporters Without Borders. According to the tally kept by RSF, 200 journalists have been subjected to threats and physical violence, including murder, in the past 10 years because they were ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards, Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
ACT's Rural Communities and Veterans spokesman Mark Cameron responds to cancellations and protests of ANZAC Day commemorations in Wellington. He says, "These pitiful attempts to detract from ANZAC Day are not at all indicative of the feelings of mainstream ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meighen McCrae, Associate Professor of Strategic & Defence Studies, Australian National University American and Australian stretcher bearers working together near the front line during the Battle of Hamel in 1918.Australian War Memorial While the AUKUS alliance is new, the Australian-American partnership ...
Pōneke based peace activists staged a silent protest at the ANZAC day service to highlight New Zealand’s complicity in war and genocide, and urge the government to take concrete steps to stop the genocide in Palestine. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Magdalena M.E. Bunbury, Postdoctoral Researcher, James Cook University Burial with a horse at the Rákóczifalva site, Hungary (8th century AD).Sándor Hegedűs, Hungarian National Museum, CC BY How do we understand past societies? For centuries, our main sources of information have been ...
Amanda Thompson doesn’t really do Anzac Day. But what she does do is remember the people she knew who had a lifetime to remember stuff they didn’t really want to, because of a war they didn’t ask for. And she does make Anzac biscuits.First published in 2021.All my ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kathryn Willis, Postdoctoral Researcher, CSIRO Xavier Boulenger/Shutterstock In the two decades to 2019, global plastic production doubled. By 2040, plastic manufacturing and processing could consume as much as 20% of global oil production and use up 15% of the annual carbon ...
With our collective remembrance, and steadfast belief in our common humanity, we strengthen our hope and resolve to do what we can to foster dialogue and understanding, and to heal divisions in our pursuit of peace. ...
Principal reasons for the opposition is the loss of the public’s democratic right to have “a fair say” and the vital need for a government free from corruption, said Casey Cravens of Dunedin, president of the New Zealand Federation of Freshwater ...
Never mind the scoreboard – in the 2000 Bledisloe Cup decider, the real trans-Tasman battle was won before kickoff.First published in 2016. The dawn of the new millennium was a dark time for the All Blacks. Their final game pre-Y2K was a 22-18 loss to South Africa in the ...
I’m on the wrong side of 40, I never pursued creative work and now my job is killing my soul. Help! Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nzDear Hera,May I start with the least original conversation opener you’re likely to hear around the motu at the moment, particularly in Wellington: ...
“Never again - No AUKUS” was the message of the wreath laid at this morning’s national ANZAC Day commemorative service at Pukeahu National War Memorial Park this morning by the Stop AUKUS group. ...
Until this month, Auckland swimmer Hazel Ouwehand had never met a qualifying time in an Olympic event for a New Zealand team, even as a junior. Now she’s very likely off to the Paris Olympics after swimming well under the qualifying standard in the 100m butterfly twice – both in ...
While Anzac Day has experienced a resurgence in recent years, our other day of remembrance has slowly faded from view.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand. Original illustrations by Hope McConnell.First published in 2022.The high school’s head girl and ...
Australian and New Zealand volunteers fought together in the Waikato War, yet still its place in the Anzac tradition is unacknowledged by our defence forces or Returned Services Association.First published in 2018.When I was a boy cub I attended Anzac Day services in the South Auckland suburb of ...
A poem by Wellington writer Tayi Tibble.Hoki Mai She kisses him goodbye with her eyes still wet and alight from their last swim in the Awatere river. At the train station celebration, she leads the Kapa Haka but her voice keeps breaking under and over itself like waves. ...
A poem from Bill Manhire’s 2017 book of verse Some Things to Place in a Coffin.My World War I Poem Inside each trench, the sound of prayer. Inside each prayer, the sound of digging. Image courtesy of Auckland War Memorial Museum. ...
There are three books I have wolfed down in one sitting over the last two years. Colleen Maria Lenihan’s gorgeous and sad debut Kōhine, Noelle McCarthy’s memoir Grand about becoming her mother and then unbecoming her, and now Hine Toa, a staunch yet gentle self-portrait by living legend Ngāhuia te ...
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Asia Pacific Report Students and activist staff at Australia’s University of Sydney (USyd) have set up a Gaza solidarity encampment in support of Palestinians and similar student-led protests in the United States. The camp was pitched as mass graves, crippled hospitals, thousands of civilian deaths and the near-total destruction of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James B. Dorey, Lecturer in Biological Sciences, University of Wollongong Australian teddy bear bees are cute and fluffy, but get a look at that massive (unbarbed) stinger! James Dorey Photography Most of us have been stung by a bee and we ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jen Roberts, Senior Lecturer, School of Humanities and Social Inquiry, University of Wollongong Aussie~mobs/FlickrVictor Farr, a private in the 1st Infantry Battalion, was among the first to land at Anzac Cove just before dawn on April 25 1915. Victor Farr ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Moore, Senior Research Associate, School of Ecosystem and Forest Sciences, The University of Melbourne Gregory Moore I had the good fortune to care for the sugar gum at The University of Melbourne’s Burnley Gardens in Victoria where I worked for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachel Ong ViforJ, ARC Future Fellow & Professor of Economics, Curtin University Just when we think the price of rentals could not get any worse, this week’s Rental Affordability Snapshot by Anglicare has revealed low-income Australians are facing a housing crisis like ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meighen McCrae, Associate Professor of Strategic & Defence Studies, Australian National University American and Australian stretcher bearers working together near the front line during the Battle of Hamel in 1918.Australian War Memorial While the AUKUS alliance is new, the Australian-American partnership ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tracey Holmes, Professorial Fellow in Sport, University of Canberra When the news broke last weekend that 23 Chinese swimmers had tested positive to a banned drug in early 2021 and were allowed to compete at the Tokyo Olympic Games six months later ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cally Jetta, Senior Lecturer and Academic Lead; College for First Nations, University of Southern Queensland Australian War MemorialAboriginal and Torres Strait Islander readers are advised this article contains names and images of deceased people, as well as sensitive historical information ...
RNZ News Melissa Lee has been ousted from New Zealand’s coalition cabinet and stripped of the Media portfolio, and Penny Simmonds has lost the Disability Issues portfolio in a reshuffle. Climate Change and Revenue Minister Simon Watts will take Lee’s spot in cabinet. Simmonds was a minister outside of cabinet. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Lindenmayer, Professor, Fenner School of Environment and Society, Australian National University laurello/Shutterstock Some reports and popular books, such as Bill Gammage’s Biggest Estate on Earth, have argued that extensive areas of Australia’s forests were kept open through frequent burning by ...
Analysis - Christopher Luxon framing the demotion of two ministers as the portfolios getting "too complex" is a charitable way of saying they weren't up to the job. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra With Jim Chalmers’s third budget on May 14, Australians will be looking for some more cost-of-living relief – beyond the tax cuts – although they have been warned extra measures will be modest. As ...
Analysis: Melissa Lee has lost the media portfolio and her spot in Cabinet after multiple failed attempts to find solutions for a media industry in crisis. On Wednesday, the Prime Minister announced Lee would be losing her spot in Cabinet along with her media and communications ministerial portfolio. The job ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Simon Wilmot, Senior Lecturer, Film, Deakin University Among the many Australian who served during the second world war, there is a small group of people whose stories remain largely untold. These are the Muslim men and women who, while small in number, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kelly Saunders, PhD Candidate, University of Canberra There has been much analysis and praise of Justice Michael Lee’s recent judgement in Bruce Lehrmann’s defamation case against Channel Ten. Many people were openly relieved to read Lee’s “forensic” and “nuanced” application of law ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kathy Gibbs, Program Director for the Bachelor of Education, Griffith University zEdward_Indy/Shutterstock Around one in 20 people has attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). It’s one of the most common neurodevelopmental disorders in childhood and often continues into adulthood. ADHD is diagnosed ...
The Fairer Future coalition of anti-poverty groups say Whaikaha must be properly funded going forward, and that to argue that poor financial management of the new Ministry is a red herring by the Prime Minister. ...
The Taxpayers’ Union is today congratulating Hon. Paul Goldsmith on his appointment as Minister for Media and Communications and urges him to rule out state intervention in the private media sector. ...
Asia Pacific Report The West Papuan resistance OPM leader has condemned Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and US President Joe Biden, accusing their countries of “six decades of treachery” over Papuan independence. The open letter was released today by OPM chairman Jeffrey P Bomanak on the eve of ANZAC Day ...
Welcome to The Spinoff Books Confessional, in which we get to know the reading habits and quirks of New Zealanders at large. This week: writer and one of Time Magazine’s 100 most influential people of 2024, Lauren Groff.The book I wish I’d writtenIf I wish I’d written a ...
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So, are you are calling the people of Wanganui racist? (in a round about way)
As we all know, the Right has, at times, harnessed a latent racism that runs deep in parts of this culture. We saw it with National’s Iwi/Kiwi and we see it in everything Lhaws does.
That’ll be unsettling for some.
With any luck he’ll form a political party and contest the 2011 election.
L
Didn’t the people vote to keep the spelling the way it was?
So bloody what. The evidence is that it is wrong.
Evidence or racist populism, Brett? Which side are you on?
Maybe we should have a vote on whether Brett’s name should be spelt ‘Brrt’.
It’s got onomatopoeic value, and after all, if lots of people think something should be so, it must be, mustn’t it?
L
In Brett’s honour, I propose that we vote whether you should say “should of” instead of “should have”.
Come on, MJ, don’t be so hard on him. He’s made huge progress in the last year – using apostrophes and everything now.
L
Come on now… Brrttt (opps) Breet deserves to have the correct spelling of his name, as surely as my name is Lyn, Lynne, or Lin….
I’d usually expect the name to be spelled the way of whomever gave it. I wouldn’t consider contradicting Brrrreeeeetttttttttt’s mother….
We’re all for democracy on this site Toad – you know “democracy under attack” and all that.
Yes, democracy is under attack in Auckland Daveski.
But democracy is not about some creepy little bigot running a plebicite after stirring up racist populism in Whanganui.
Don’t get me wrong toad – i very much enjoy your posts here and on Channel 2 and you seem to be both well connected and have well thought out positions.
However, in this case, you seem to show a bit of the arrogance and superiority with the liberal left – the people choose but only when we let them choose.
Personally, I have no view on the super shitty (long time since I left AK) but would have liked to see Maori seats. Happy to see Whanganui.
But if you think it’s only right that the majority can decide whether to proceed with the super city then you should have no issue with the majority deciding other matters of concern.
My view is that is what Governments are elected to do – make decisions.
I think this is all a massive waste of time, effort and money, however…
Correct me if I am wrong but wasn’t Maori an oral language prior to the settlor’s arrival – in which case how can there be any evidence suggesting the spelling of the name being correct or incorrect – surely any Maori spelling is going to come down to phonetics?
jagilby, I covered this in my submission to the NZGB.
Excerpt:
So, no.
L
Bah, and missed out the last bit …
L
Thanks Lew for clearing that up. Just wasn’t sure. Makes sense if they agreed on words to use them.
In any case I fail to see how this has suddenly become such an emotive issue nearly 170 years after the fact. With all due respect I think that Maoridom are facing far more pressing issues that don’t seem to elicit the same level of raw emotion. Anecdotally (through talking to Maori friends of mine etc) this is as much a frustration of Maori as it is the rest of the country… when will we stop placing so much focus on these minor issues?
“They don’t have different versions of written english for all the various ways she is spake throughout the world.The written version is fairly consistent.”
Sure but that was my point, My understanding was that Maori was an oral language, the same can’t be said for English (so I think you’re really grasping straws to link the two) – unless you are saying that Maori also developed the English alphabet through pure coincidence? The only way to initially derive a written Maori language surely must have been to use phonetics – as Lew pointed out with spellings being mutually agreed between Maori and Pakeha. The only thing I found interesting about your allusion to accents in this instance was the fact tha some have actually argued that it was the local W-h-anganui dialect the confused the spelling in the first place.
What I really can’t understand out of this whole affair though is that, of the 889 submissions received by the NZGB, 9 were neutral. Who goes to all the trouble/ has time to write a neutral submission???
capcha: thoughts
jagilby,
It’s always been an important issue, and people who care strongly about it have been using ‘Whanganui’ for decades (even though sometimes it means their mail ends up in Whangarei). It’s just only really come to a head now because people have only now exercised their access to the proper channels.
MÄori was an oral language, but it was quite quickly codified into a written orthography — several times, though the definitive one is H.W Williams’ A Dictionary of the MÄori Language (1844), in which both the words ‘whanga’ and ‘nui’ were included with those spellings. The language was rendered into written form according to a systematic process, as languages are – it wasn’t random or full of exceptions and oddities. The words have their ordinary meaning in the name, so there’s no reason at all why they shouldn’t have their ordinary spelling.
L
They don’t have different versions of written english for all the various ways she is spake throughout the world.The written version is fairly consistent.
‘Wanga’ as a part of the written version of the language doesn’t mean anything, it isn’t a word.
Lew,
Thanks for the explainations. Very informative.
I don’t dispute it is/was an issue… its relative importance as an issue, well I’m afraid that is something that that I dispute.
I just can’t believe that we are quite literally arguing semantics given all the other problems we face currently.
Discussion on Radio Live: it’s classic Key-speak (i.e. barely intelligible, because clarity is the enemy of popularity), but it sounds like he’s backing Laws:
MICHAEL LAWS: Well you know you may actually or your Government – well as you know will be the final arbiter on that. What’s your view of local democracy?
JOHN KEY: Yeah, well we try and listen to local people where we can. The – I don’t know, it’s a bit of an interesting debate, isn’t it?
MICHAEL LAWS: Well seriously – I just, you know, I didn’t mean to talk about that this morning but it will come to you, it will come to the Government because the final decision’s not made by the New Zealand Geographic Board.
But four out of five Wanganui people voted – at the referendum this year, I think 19,000 people voted, and 80 per cent of them said listen, keep things as they are. Is that persuasive for you?
JOHN KEY: Yeah, well, it sounds like a pretty strong argument. I haven’t waded my way through the whole thing other than just sort of occasionally hearing it, you know, bubbling along in the background. But, yeah, I mean in the end it should be ultimately the decision I would have thought for local people.
MICHAEL LAWS: Thank you. I’m delighted to hear that.
“Yeah, well we try and listen to local people where we can.”
Except in Auckland.
Did either Laws or Key manage a single intelligible sentence in that conversation?
Oh and in honour of Michael Laws’ insistence on incorrect spelling he shall henceforth be referred to as: Mikael Laus, Mare of Wanganui (until he learns to spell at which point Michael Laws, Mayor of Whanganui will be appropriate once more).
Rumour has it that Law’s is moving around the council buildings removing the H key from every keyboard he can find.
Probably..
Seems as sensible as banning gang patches and about as useful as making pi=3.0
But then hick legislators are good at representing their electorates………. Apologies in advance to Lew and others associated with the city…
None necessary, Lynn. I’ve made my position on the place and many of its people crystal clear.
L
It’s Lhaws and not Laws.
Here’s a story to cause confusion. It only works on radio, but it made me chuckle:
Radio NZ headline:
“Mair thrilled by decision to put the ‘h’ into Wanganui”
Heh.
Brilliant!
My name originates in France. When a Maori, Eskimo or Ethiopian etc spells or pronounces my name wrongly I politely correct them. I dont however give them the privelege of telling me how it really should be. Its mine and from my culture. Even if there are 4 Eskimos arguing I am wrong versus me (80% versus 20%) they are still wrong.
What about Whanganui belonging to Maori language and culture does Laws not understand? Who knows if Laws is racist? He is definitely ignorant.
I can’t help agreeing with Dr Grant – Whanganui was incorrectly spelt and and its misspelling offended the speakers of the language ‘lending’ the name. Mr Laws needs to take a deep breath and ponder….but, on reflection, it is a vain hope.
And perhaps Mr Key should remain silent on these things until briefed – one can see another clash with the Maori Party heading over the horizon if his government bends to Mr Laws’ position. And Mr Williamson is an ideal minister to make the final decision…..noted for his guarded prudence…..
what a dumb-assed comment from the PM. Maori is one of New Zealand’s national languages, therefore maori place names should be spelt correctly. It is beyond belief that this is an issue.
Use of a national language is not a matter for local referenda . ..
So if the H is brought in, how much will that little exercise cost and who carries the bill ?
a) All Road Signs in Area
b) All Street Maps
c) All Local Business – Change letter head, business cards, etc
d) GPS applications
e) All Companies that correspond with people in the area
One of the Massey Uni boffins should do a costing exercise, if it turns out that it will cost tens of millions of dollars (which it will do), just flick a couple of hundred $K at the local Iwi instead as settlement of the ‘grievance’.
It’s in times like these where we need to cut all frivolous expenditure.
Why would all the road signs in the area need replacing? Are all the roads being renamed to “Whanganui St”?
Won’t that be confusing?
Think of the bigger signs –
Wanganui 20Kms
Mt Egmont 35Kms
Bulls 50Kms
etc.
The ones that litter our country side telling you how far to travel to paradise.
Or the various affected parties could just update their bits and pieces as they fall due for replacement. Road signs are crashed into or vandalised regularly, businesses use their stationery up and re-order more, GPS applications are updated all the time, it doesn’t have to be a biggie.
Mt Egmont eh? Funny you mention that. Somehow we have managed to rename that and not go broke.
“Why would all the road signs in the area need replacing? Are all the roads being renamed to “Whanganui St’?
Won’t that be confusing?”
Funiest post I have read today 🙂
And yes, but it would be worth it to irritate Lhaws.
The District Council should send the bill to Double Dipton, vidiot.
I’m sure his accommodation expenses will cover it, because road signs are the only ones that probably need attention immediately. Changing web presence costs stuff all, and the rest like letterheads can wait until existing stock runs out. As for businesses, well, it’s up to them. I can’t imagine anythign is going to go astray if they don’t use the “h”.
Michael (silent h there) Laws is a total whanker
Re: the “Wh”.
Way back in the 70’s I was fortunate enough to be in the middle of nowhere camping with a group of people which included a few Maori elders. I was young and these old chaps and I spent a few nights sitting around the fire talking shit about NZ, the stars and the stories of the past. I heard some really interesting stories in the timeless word of mouth fashion that legends are passed down via.
During one conversation I asked about the ‘wh’ sound and one of the old boys told me to stop talking like a educated white boy. He said to me;
Back when he was skipping off school speaking Maori in school earned you the cane. He also went on to say that having no written language the spelling of Maori words was entirely at the discretion of the English who were arrogant as hell about their language. He asked me – Do you really think that the arrogant English would have invented a new language construct to represent a sound they heard when that sound as spoken today was already well covered by the “ph” or “f” sound ?
He said the words were different from place to place anyway, and that the whole “wh” nonsense was getting out of hand. (remember this was the 70’s…)
I’m in no way saying having ‘wh’ is wrong for Whanganui, because the owners of that word/name have the right to dictate how it we should say and spell it – but that old boys words stuck with me at the time and ever since then I’ve wondered who really is right and wrong here.
Toad
Im on the side of the people, if they voted for the H, put it in, if the whole country had a vote to change the name of New Zealand to Aotearoa, and people voted for change, I say change it.
If 80% of people in a town vote for something, then do it, I dont think outsiders to the town should have a say, its about community.
lets see .. 170 or so years ago, some white guys turn up on the West Coast by a river and meet some local Maori and say “hi, my names Jon (or is it John), this is a nice place, what’s it called?” .. Wanganui they say .. really, how do you spell that? .. buggered if I know they say .. well then, says Jon, (or is it John), how about if we spell it Wanganui? .. looks ok to us say the locals and there we have it, simple.
BUT, there is always a but, a decade or so later, white guys and brown guys meet up and somewhere (maybe Petone which could be next) and get talking over some rum and roast kumera and they all notice that the Wanganui Maori talk funny .. or is it the other Maori talk funny (hard for me to know because I wasn’t there) anyway, they have a chat and decide that maybe there could be a translation problem. Now, from I have read, the Wanganui Maori were beaten up by both the Poms and fellow Maori during the wars so it was determind that the Wanganui tribes can’t speak properly so they lose again. Maybe if they were stronger, we would have Wangarei and Wakatane etc .. there you go, an alternative version and who was actually there to say I’m wrong.
gee I hear you say .. racist redneck.
ps .. couldn’t be bothered with all the ” ” and ?’s.
It is amazing what makes the news these days, hasn’t NZ got bigger issues to deal with than to worry whether we have an “H” or not in Wanganui?
Are you referring to the important decision on what flag to fly on the harbour bridge?
“hasn’t NZ got bigger issues to deal with than to worry whether we have an “H’ or not in Wanganui?”
Yep. Laws should stop being so angry and sort out the many other problems in Whanganui instead of wasting his time defending a spelling mistake.
So Bored .. what is the correct pronounciation of Wanganui .. what about Whanau.
It would be good for you to compare with say Ms Turia. I wonder if you would be happy to be corrected and pronounce such words her way in future.
jabba: What’s the correct pronunciation of ‘route’? Or ‘tomato’? Depends on the dialect of who’s talking.
L
Lew
This is a good point but as an argument it falls down. There was only one dialect involved in the creation of the written Maori language over a few short years.
burt, I don’t see the point you’re making. Is it that the Wiremu-based orthography in current use does not represent the Whanganui dialect? If so, that is a matter for the Whanganui iwi to take up — not a bunch of latter-day settlers who don’t speak the dialect anyway (bar one word of it which they perversely claim isn’t a MÄori word anyhow).
The people whose dialect it is (that is, those who are guaranteed ‘possession’ of it under Article 2 of the Treaty) have made their decision. That’s the core rebuttal of all dialect-based arguments against Whanganui.
L
Lew
I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. I have no issues with the ‘h’. Really as far as I can see it’s the right of the people who claim ownership of the name to describe how it is said and ultimately how we should spell it.
I totally agree that the same words are said differently in different dialects and believe that was the case in NZ with Maori in the 1800’s. For some reason now we need to standardise it – this I disagree with. I don’t think it’s likely the English wrote down anything other than what they heard at the time and therefore separate dialects may not be adequately catered for with a single spelling as defined by a small group of 1800’s English speakers.
As far as I’m concerned if some Maori want to say ‘Wanau’ and others ‘Fanau’ then so what. Who are we to say that because it is starts with ‘Wh’ if must be said ‘Fa’ when we don’t allow alternate spellings.
Even though I dont particularly like her, I certainly would take her advice and be happy to be corrected. Its her language, not mine.
I thought this thread was about Ken Mair
thank god for Lew .. you are so right.
can you imagine a bloke from Liverpool going to any town/city in Yorkshire and telling the locals they don’t pronounce English correctly? bif/bash/smack.
What you are saying is the crux of what the problem is. The variation on how to say English words is hard enough so how an I suppose to get Maori correct when they can’t get it it the same themselves .. we need more Lews.
Jabba, try to keep up. If you don’t know how to pronounce or spell a language, leave it to those what do.
Honestly. It’s not rocket surgery.
L
Or Rochelle’s. She routinely corrects her Maori surrogate fathers pronunciation with the full blessing of his mother and family. Lyn thinks that my spoken english is terrible because I know the words, their meaning, but I’ve only ever seen them written. I seem to be under tuition during most discussions with her.
On the other hand, I’m a master of the computer dialects. I lost count of how many I knew in my 20’s at about 45, and I routinely pick up 4 or 5 per year. I just finished sucking up python which took about 5 days to go from ignorance to literate. Next up is the WPF language xaml because I need to get directx into web pages.
Different people, different skills.
JP .. it’s Kenneth
“Correct” spelling can only exist if there is an existing written language. Even then correct spelling is contentious.
Maori was never a written language. It cannot therefore have a spelling.
All languages in constant and useful use are always changing in pronunciation,
and, if written, changing in spelling..
All languages, worldwide, have undergone huge changes in word adoption, adaptation, pronunciation and (God help us,spelling).
All languages have dialectical differences.
Spelling does not change pronunciation.
The way most pakeha pronounce “Taupo” or “Tauranga” is not the way most Maori
pronounce it (depending which part of the country they come from ,of course.)
In culturally secure countries pronunciation, let alone spelling , is a non event.
This whole topic is about Ken Mair trying to make himself important.
Peter, this issue rests on the question “When was the MÄori language?”
The answer is that it is. MÄori was not a written language, but it is one now (and has been one for almost a couple hundred years). There is now a universally-accepted orthography and lexicography, and a huge amount of documentation establishing the provenance and correctness of same. It is one of the most thoroughly-documented and well-used indigenous minority languages in the world. There is quite literally no credible dissent to these well-established norms. Under this system, there is one (1) spelling of the word meaning ‘big harbour’ after which the city at the mouth of the river of the same name was called, and it has an h in it.
This is not some countercultural mumbo-jumbo; this is quite simply how language works.
But, hey — it’s cool, if it gets your wheels spinning, keep at it. Your (and Michael Laws’) position is simply not supported by evidence. The more you keep at it, the more obvious you make this. Please — have at it.
L
Peter: So? Your argument shows an abysmal ignorance of the history of the english written language.
On that basis you’d also say that english has the same issue. It wasn’t formalised until the 18th century when the first dictionaries were written. Less than a century before Maori.
It wasn’t until the 16th century that any significant body of written literature emerged in english. It is largely unreadable to any modern reader because the spelling was pretty much up to the taste of the author. I’d suggest having a look in the rare books section of your local university or major public library.
English was and still is an oral language. The biggest group of english speakers in world are in the indian subcontinent. While they can out-talk almost any group that I know, it is as hard to understand them as it is to understand someone from Alabama.
The biggest written language in the world, Mandarin bears little resemblance to the spoken form of the language. For that matter the most ancient written languages in the western world like Latin and classical Greek show the same characteristics. We can read them, but we have no idea about how they were spoken – just a lot of guesswork.
Written languages only have a passing relationship with the spoken. What we are talking about here is a written bastardization of a place name by mapmakers who couldn’t ‘hear’ how the locals pronounced a name. Since it is a local Maori name, they should be able to determine the spelling.
Your arguments are just spurious. You claim an authority that simply doesn’t exist, about something you know little about. Personally I just ascribe it to an inherent mindless bigotry.
peterlepaysan
I think spelling for place names is important. Spelling on maps and road signs is a proxy for the authoritative source of the spelling.
Pronunciation on the other hand, with you on that, being anal against different dialects is IMHO a sign of cultural immaturity.
Yep… There is a reason for having an authoritative name for people, things and places. Personally I always pronounce Onehunga as One-hung-a and I won’t even attempt to to describe how I pronounce Newton or Ponsonby.
“…I won’t even attempt to to describe how I pronounce Newton or Ponsonby.”
This I want to know.
“Maori was never a written language.”
This assertion is simply not true. Maori is a written language and has been since the early 19th century.
oh lew lew lew ,, Maori pronounce their own language with all sorts of variations but I guess you know best.
Jabba, that’s my point. That they say things all different-like.
L