Why does David Farrar hate Winston Peters so much?

Written By: - Date published: 8:37 pm, May 29th, 2014 - 205 comments
Categories: David Farrar, winston peters - Tags:

David Farrar has quite a thing for Winston Peters.

He attacks him at every opportunity.

Here’s the latest. Many other examples can be found on kiwiblog.

I’ve heard rumours that Farrar’s hatred of Winston is based on his fear that National might end up in a coalition with Winston after this election.

Why would Farrar fear that?

The story goes that Farrar may have had a bit to do with the group that stitched up Winston in the lead-up to the 2008 election.

So if Winston goes into coalition with National, he may take revenge, and only agree to a coalition if say, National dumped Farrar. That would mean the end of the snout-in-trough deal that Farrar has enjoyed as National’s pet blogger and pollster.

If something like that were true then it might explain recent events…

Lately, Brendan Horan has begun to attack Winston in parliament, somewhat out of the blue.
What is his motivation? Is this National attacking Winston through the satellite state of Brendan Horan?

Why would National do that? Have they decided, in private at least, that a coalition with Winston is intolerable? That’s seems risky because they may need his help to form a government after the election.

Are they just trying to diminish his vote, hoping that most of his supporters would vote National if they abandoned Winston? That would explain the use of Horan as a means to attack Winston without completely jeopardising a post-election deal with him.

How much of a say does David Farrar have in the National party’s election strategy?

Perhaps Farrar is by-passing National and feeding attack lines to Horan directly?

It’s all very fishy. Can anyone shed any light on this?

205 comments on “Why does David Farrar hate Winston Peters so much?”

  1. Ergo Robertina 1

    National’s preference is for Winston to be out of the mix, leaving the Conservatives to hoover up those votes.

    • Lanthanide 1.1

      It’s for NZFirst to get 4.99% of the party vote and no electorates.

    • Who says it’s just National?

      If people are going to vote for disgusting centrists, they might as well vote for Labour, or Dunne if they’re a bit right-wing, no point in voting for Winston or his other racist pals.

      That said, if they get more than 1%, they deserve to be in parliament, and I’d rather we count the votes of the centrists and the racists than leave them unrepresented.

      But if it’s a choice between honestly losing and getting rid of winston, and winning but keeping him… I’d probably rather lose the one election.

  2. TheContrarian 2

    Sounds all very conspiracy.

    “I’ve heard…”

    “The story goes…”

    “He may take revenge…”

    “How much say does Farrar have…”

    Sounds like a load of unsubstantiated nothing.

    • Lanthanide 2.1

      I’m always very very wary of these sorts of posts that go up here.

      A big conspiracy that Brendan Horan is in contact with people and doing the National party’s bidding. Or maybe Brendan is just a twat who has finally managed to scrounge enough dirt together to sling at Winston?

      As the NZ Sceptics Society says, “when you hear hoofbeats in the night, think first of horses, not zebras”.

      • geoff 2.1.1

        Sorry Lanth, no big conspiracy, I’m just exploring ideas and asking if anyone else has anything to add to this.

        I personally don’t think any of the the scenarios I’ve outlined are far-fetched in the slightest. I think things like this are going on all the time in the background. What’s wrong with talking about the possibilities?

        What’s your attitude to John Key’s version of events regarding the GCSB debacle? Nothing to see, move along?

        • J Mex 2.1.1.1

          The problem I have, Geoff (et al) is that if I wrote something like this in the comments section but swapping out the players, (Mana/McCarten/Internet/Labour/Maori etc), then I would be roundly slammed by the mods with something along the lines of… “Substantiate your claims or take a two week ban”

          Even putting the hypocrisy aside, I don’t think this sort of thing is useful because there are a near infinite number of conspiracy theories on all sides of the house which people can develop that might fit with events:

          “Why does Geoff fear Farrar so much that he is trying to silence him?”,
          “Is Geoff being paid by Winston to counter-attack National?” (I’ve heard rumors)
          “Is J Mex actually David Farrar trying to shut this issue down now that the truth is out….”

          None of this stuff is particularly useful to anyone, so I am surprised that this “keyboard conspiracy interview” makes it as a Standard post.

          • geoff 2.1.1.1.1

            None of this stuff is particularly useful to anyone

            So says you, I’d say you are lacking in imagination.

            Fortunately I don’t have to adhere to whatever you construe as ‘useful’.

            If you look closely at most political posts on the internet then you’ll notice that many of them contain a portion which is speculative.

            That’s just the nature of politics, everyone is operating in an environment of imperfect information so everyone has to create hypotheses to some extent.

            Politics is contingent on imperfect information, if everyone knew what everyone else knew then politics wouldn’t exist.

            • J Mex 2.1.1.1.1.1

              Geoff, most of that is also true of the Moon Landing and 911 conspiracies. They contain portions that are speculative and operate in an environment of imperfect information so everyone has to create hypotheses to some extent. It goes without saying that Conspiracy theories are contingent on imperfect information, and if everyone knew what everyone else knew then conspiracy theories wouldn’t exist.

              Maybe you don’t get what I am saying about your post. Here are the ‘facts’ with alternative (and IMHO much more likely) conclusions.

              [edits mine]

              David Farrar has quite a thing for Winston Peters.

              He attacks him at every opportunity [, alongside all non National coalition partners]

              Here’s the latest. Many other examples can be found on kiwiblog.

              [It seems readily apparent that] that Farrar’s [attacking] of Winston is based on hi[m not wanting NZ first to reach 5% and not be in parliament].

              Why would Farrar [want] that?

              Because then National has more chance of being able to form a government

              Lately, Brendan Horan has begun to attack Winston in parliament, somewhat out of the blue.
              What is his motivation?

              Winston kicked him out of the party. Horan has no future with NZ First and probably parliament. What is his motivation for NOT attacking Winston?

              • geoff

                I completely get what you’re saying. I just don’t agree with you. And I strongly suspect that you are anti this post because you are a supporter of David Farrar and/or the Right.

                But hey, that’s just speculation on my part. Which puts it on the same level as moon landing and 911 conspiracies, right?

                I’m more than happy to say I can’t stand David Farrar. I think he and his kind are a blight on the nation, they are holding the line for a destructive, socially corrosive political economy that is on its last legs hopefully and I’ll celebrate when they are gone.

                But if you don’t think that Farrar and National are up to all sorts of shit in the background then you are either naive, stupid or disingenuous. I’m going to bet on disingenuous.

                • J Mex

                  But if you don’t think that Farrar and National are up to all sorts of shit in the background then you are either naive, stupid or disingenuous. I’m going to bet on disingenuous.

                  Well argued!

                  How would I ever counter anyone who essentially argued… “If you don’t agree with me then you are stupid or insincere” ?

                  At least you are carrying on in the comments with the same intellectual rigour that you applied to your initial post.

                  Note: I never said that National and Farrar weren’t ‘up to shit’. Of course they are. And Labour and The Standard authors. And the Greens. And Mana. And Winston.

                  I simply pointed out that there is no corroborating evidence to support your post. There are far simpler explanations, and IMHO your post is pointless because many many posts could have been written with the exact same ‘facts’ but completely different implications. Your post is the equivalent of gossip at best, and making shit up at worst.

                  And, as I pointed out before, if someone accused Labour, a Standard author, David Cunliffe or Matt McCarten of the same (on the same evidence) on this blog, they would cop a warning or a ban. Unquestionably a double standard.

                  It’s a bad post, just own it.

                  [lprent: Don’t be stupid. You are likely to pick up a ban if you accused an author or the site of ulterior motives without proof or a reasonable theory. In the latter case it would usually be after you wank on about it repetitively for some time making assertions without proof.

                  You should know – you have stupidly done most of these things in the past. We don’t (usually) ban for what people say on other sites. The one exception to that was Pete George and his rather continuous lying about why he gets banned from here.

                  However you can pick up a ban for lying about what we do with moderation and bans. So I’d suggest that you desist if you want to continue to comment. ]

                  • J Mex

                    However you can pick up a ban for lying about what we do with moderation

                    Wow. That’s new.

                    And I never mentioned other sites.

                    My point remains. The post is crap. It has zero substance. Other, regular commenters, have essentially said the same thing.

                    My first comment is fine and mild. But Geoff wants to defend the indefensible, and now lpent is here to run interference on the issue.

                    (But deep down you know Geoff’s post is a steaming pile of horseshit, dressed up as analysis too, lprent).

                  • geoff

                    It’s a bad post, just own it.

                    Judging by the response (even the astrology comments!) I’m quite pleased with the post.

                    • Markymark

                      Hey Geoff,

                      One does not need to be a supporter of the right, to see that this post is total unsubstantiated bullshit.

                      Not a single point has a shred of evidence attached to it. Funnily enough, if the post had been about Winston and not Farrar having some deep dark ulterio motive, I suspect ole Winnie would have sued you for defamation (and won)!

                • jackp

                  I have to agree. I was wondering the same thing. Horan is the right tool to get to Winston. This reeks of Key. Farrar dislikes Winston because Winston is riding higher in Farrar’s National polls than David wants him to be. This is a similar tactic in 2011 when Farrar accused Winston of being supported by white supremists (laughable since Winston is part Maori). That didn’t get mileage so Farrar went to a different tact which was Winston’s illegal campaign. TV3 kept repeating this time and again about 3 days before the election. As you recall, the press kept running a vote for Winston was a vote for instability. That brought NZ first down about 4 points. Farrar and National are going to do every dirty trick to get Winston out of the race.

      • weka 2.1.2

        “when you hear hoofbeats in the night, think first of horses, not zebras”

        Unless you happen to live in Africa (i.e. thinking of zebras make sense in some contexts).

      • cricklewood 2.1.3

        Pretty much, Horan is out for revenge one way or another… the mans not a complete mug of course he would wait till prior to an election in an attempt to cause maximum damage. Nothing more nothing less. Hardly out of the blue…
        As for Farrar I would say his dislike of Winston is like a leftys dislike of say Banks, Brash or Key not really that surprising.

        • Tracey 2.1.3.1

          Banks brash and key were never in a labour govt, winston was a national minister…

      • Anne 2.1.4

        Oh come on Lanthanide. It happens all the time. Especially in politics.

        A upsets B.
        B wants revenge.
        C wants A discredited so C spills the beans to B.
        B uses the beans to get his revenge on A.

        Winston upset Brendon by dumping him.
        Brendon wants his revenge for being dumped.
        David F (or someone) spins a yarn to Brendon about Winston.
        Brendon dumps on Winston using parliamentary privilege.

        Mind you there’s plenty of NACTS who have hated Winston’s guts ever since the Winebox Affair. Any one of them could have done the spilling and… what’s the bet the story came out of Key’s top drawer in the first place!

      • Ergo Robertina 2.1.5

        Brendan’s asked National patsy supplementaries in the House, so there is collaboration on some level. The questions are to what degree, who is involved, and what National is trying to do.

        • geoff 2.1.5.1

          Yes, I’d heard something about that but i hadn’t a chance to look into it further.

          Do you have any links perchance?

        • felix 2.1.5.2

          Nah, Horan regularly tries to put ministers on the spot. I’ve never heard him ask a Nat patsy.

          • Ergo Robertina 2.1.5.2.1

            I wasn’t meaning Government policy questions, but the pointed ones re Winston and NZF. It appears National ministers had been prepared with answers for some of them. Perhaps patsy questions is not the right term, but it would have to involve some interaction/heads up.

          • Skinny 2.1.5.2.2

            Horan carried such hatred of Labour, I once had to tell him keep it to himself, but certainly not infront of me. For his ideological hatred of what Labour stand for Peters wisely used his family faux par to flicked him out before the election, so he wouldn’t be undermined when he chooses Labour over National. That is the conclusion that I’ve come to.

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.6

        The NZ Skeptics society? Well you better tell them that politics is like living in a zoo somedays. And zoos have lots of zebras, but they don’t keep horses.

      • TeWhareWhero 2.1.7

        “As the NZ Sceptics Society says, “when you hear hoofbeats in the night, think first of horses, not zebras”.”

        This how doctors work – look to the most obvious first – which does not always work it must be said.

    • vto 2.2

      lol, conspiring is pretty much the most common activity of manwomankind dontcha know…

      People conspire to achieve a business end
      People conspire to gain a political advantage (one of the most common forms)
      People conspire to get themselves a manwoman. Or two.
      People conspire to skip work
      People conspire to defeat others
      to win at rugby
      to catch a fish

      it’s endless …

      so the answer to this post is that there most definitely is some conspiring going on and there may even be some theories around it

      so it is all just another conspiracy theory

      therefore its most definitely not true and there is nothing going on.

  3. Hamish 3

    The penguin is wagging the dog!

  4. Fran 4

    Heard Farrar on RNZ today. Confirmed two things – he has a voice best suited to silent movies and he has nothing interesting to add to political debate. He, along with Michelle Boag and Josie Pagani (who spouted some of the most appallingly racist statements I have heard in many a long day on the panel this week) are people who are well past their use by dates. It is time we stopped giving these people any credence. Surely we can find commentators and political analysts who are actually able to think critically and then articulate those thoughts appropriately.

    • Mike the Savage One 4.1

      He also surprisingly conceded, that the MANA Dotcom or IP deal was more of a “reverse take over by Mana of IP”, which was an astonishing admission.

      Farrar knows that his Nats are screwed, but he is trying all to defend them and to reverse the downward trend, that is happening, despite of flawed “polls”.

    • karol 4.2

      Heard a bit of the Panel on RNZ today – seems to me, that like TV3 and others, Farar and his panel mates are talking up the line that Harre’s IMP role will eat into the Greens vote.

      Yet, I doubt it is very likely. The IMP is particularly going after the young, the disengaged, etc. as well as left support for workers, those on low incomes, etc.

      The Greens have a well established image and narrative, and it differs from the more anti-establishment line of the IMP. Each have their niche.

      • Gosman 4.2.1

        Which person on the right of the political spectrum would you use instead?

        • Crunchtime 4.2.1.1

          Use for what? This post makes no sense.

          I think the hope with the IMP (as stated straight-up by Harre in her first speech) is to inspire a chunk of the 800,000 who didn’t vote last election. After all, only need about an 8th of those voting IMP to secure about 5% of the party vote.

          • Gosman 4.2.1.1.1

            Use as a commentator on media discussions such as Q+A and The Panel.

            • geoff 4.2.1.1.1.1

              They should at least have someone less rabid than Richard Prebble.

              Perhaps Genghis Khan?

              • Gosman

                So far some of the left have ruled out David Farrar Richard Prebble and Michelle Boag here. On other threads I’ve read in the past some left wingers have complained about Matthew Hooten Colin Craig and Cameron Slater being asked for their opinions in the media. So who is an acceptable commentator from the right then?

                • geoff

                  yeah well they are all complete arseholes and we’ve all seen far, far too much of those hagged, wrinkled tory scumbags over the years so it’s entirely understandable we’ve ruled them out.
                  The problem with tories is they’re all psychopaths that hate the idea of people working together. Why would any sane person really care to listen to their stupid opinions??

                  • Gosman

                    Thank you for providing a practical illustration of my big issue with people on the left being intolerant and anti freedom of expression. It isn’t David Farrar that people dislike. It is pretty much anyone who expresses a view that isn’t left of center left.

                    • felix

                      “It isn’t David Farrar that people dislike. It is pretty much anyone who expresses a view that isn’t left of center left.”

                      Nah, it’s David Farrar. He’s a bad person. He’s working hard to make most peoples’ lives worse.

                      Try this: It is pretty much anyone who expresses a view that isn’t empathic, egalitarian, and compassionate.

                    • Gosman

                      I presume you use your own definitions for those terms or at least your own interpretation of if someone meets the definition.

                    • felix

                      I’ll stick with the commonly accepted, thanks. Not here to play silly games.

                • georgecom

                  Colin Craig. He comes across as sooooooooo credible and smooth that he should front every question for the right wing. Who killed JFK, where is Elvis living, how do tin foil hats block mind probes from space…

                • felix

                  Kyle Chapman.

                  John Tamihere.

                  Alan Gibb.

              • Tracey

                Yes, but has genghis khan been thinking.

                • geoff

                  arf, thanks tracey reminding me of one of the shittest books ever to see the light of day.

              • Stuart Munro

                Genghis is much maligned because, like Macchiavelli, he had democratic tendencies. When he went to war his enemy’s kings were going to die, but the commoners were spared – the opposite of standard practice at the time and part of the reason he could conquer so rapidly. Comtemporary Europeans (Chaucer) admired him, the barbarian line of criticism was popularised during the 1800s as European aristocracy was feeling the end of its death grip on political control.

                Prebble has more in common with Tamerlane – except of course that Tamerlane had some greatness to balance his inhumanity.

                • geoff

                  Yes no doubt, Stu. My apologies to Genghis and his descendants for associating him with Prebble.

                  Actually the reason I used Genghis was that my dad has a saying when describing a right wing politician… ‘he’s just to the right of Genghis Khan’. Always made me laugh.

  5. Mike the Savage One 5

    It is very, very simple and understandable, that David Farrar dislikes Winston and NZ First. They are the most unpredictable factor in the coming election. David Farrar is a Virgo by star sign, that means he likes order, control and such, and that is what leaves him in a situation, where “disorder’ and “unpredictable situations” just cause too much distress to him, he simply cannot cope with that.

    So here we go, Winston is anyway the total “enfant terrible” in NZ politics, he may be in the game, he may not be, but for the fact nobody, least Fart(arse) aka Farrar can predict anything, it is an element that causes irritation and disturbance. Farrar better book another trip to climb another mountain, if he cannot bear the unpredictable and insecure situation.

    How entertaining.

    • TheContrarian 5.1

      Wow, really? Star-signs? Seriously?

      • Mike the Savage One 5.1.1

        I added this to simply give more info on what is very apparent, as Farrar is all for laissez faire stuff, and Winston the opposite, I thought it would not need to be mentioned, for those informed. But that extra bit of info gives more insight into the psyche of Farrar, which few know.

        • TheContrarian 5.1.1.1

          Seriously, star-signs? You know astrology isn’t real right?

          I think Farrar feeding info to Horan on behalf of National is more believable than “because he is a Virgo”

      • vto 5.1.2

        The Chinese certainly think so

        And so do the tides

        • TheContrarian 5.1.2.1

          What do the tides have to do with anything?

          • vto 5.1.2.1.1

            The tides, like everything else on the planet, respond to the gravitational pull of the objects out in space.

            If you don’t believe me go ask Newton …. its not rocket science

            [lprent: That is rather hard. He is dead. Oh dear why did I say that? Someone is going to start tugging the tablecloth. ]

            • TheContrarian 5.1.2.1.1.1

              Which has what to do with anything? How does this relate to star-signs or peoples behaviour?

              • vto

                You were questioning what star signs have to do with people’s behaviour. Star signs are just a physical thing (not some gooey quasi-spiritual thing) concerning the spin of objects through space and their gravitational effect on things on earth. The tides are exactly the same, just easier for most people to understand because they can see the effects much more easily than, say, the gravitational effects on a newborn on a super-king tide. Capiche?

                • TheContrarian

                  Well no because there completely zero science to back astrology in any way whatsoever. Why would the moon effect a newborn?

                  “Because gravity” isn’t an answer.

                  • vto

                    Its ok contrarian, science isn’t the bees knees always, often times it is a million miles behind….

                    example – newton (fancy that)
                    example – flat-earthers
                    example – continental drift

                    just go with it otherwise you are always behind the 8-ball

                    • TheContrarian

                      What? In what way was science a million miles behind Newton? Continental drift? Huh? These discoveries were a product of science, not in spite of.

                      Why would the moon effect a newborn?

                    • weka

                      Because the lunar phase affects human physiology in multiple ways. That’s not an argument for science supporting astrology, but perhaps you should be more careful with your questions.

                    • TheContrarian

                      Physiology in respect of ones circadian rhythm but not in the physiological nor physiological make-up of a new-born human.

                    • vto

                      sheesh man keep up . … . (or maybe I’m not clear…)

                      the point was that gravity clearly existed before the scientists realised it and described it …. maybe it is the same with astrology … i.e. one day they will realise it, measure it and describe it…

                      just because the scientists have not done this yet with astrology does not mean it is not physical reality … just like gravity before newton

                      just like a round earth

                      just like drifting continents

                      methinks you rely on science too much for your understanding of the world – like the flat-earthers did.

                    • TheContrarian

                      “the point was that gravity clearly existed before the scientists realised it and described it …. maybe it is the same with astrology … i.e. one day they will realise it, measure it and describe it…”

                      Your analogy fails and here is why –

                      Yes gravity clearly existed but we did realise it – it was plain to see. Objects attract objects and we didn’t know why but there was clearly some force that needed explanation – which Newton explained (and Einstein built on).

                      Unlike astrology because the is no discernible effect to draw any conclusions on whatsoever. People have repeatedly looked into the claims and found no evidence of any effect on any person. No statistical variance, no repeatable results, no clear hypothesis to study. Nothing.

                      The phases of the moon have a noticeable effect but that isn’t to do with gravity and has everything to do with circadian rhythm.

                      (“like the flat-earthers did” The earth was known to be round some thousand years before Christ)

                    • weka

                      “Physiology in respect of ones circadian rhythm but not in the physiological nor physiological make-up of a new-born human.”

                      Not sure what you mean there. We (via science) don’t know much about the lunar influences and how those mechanisms work. But we do know that things like hormonal pathways are affected. Why would that not be affecting newborns?

                    • TheContrarian

                      “just because the scientists have not done this yet with astrology does not mean it is not physical reality … just like gravity before newton”

                      Gravity was thought about and hypothesised on long before Newton. It wasn’t as if it didn’t exist in the minds of thinkers until Newton came along

                    • vto

                      and your last sentence is where you fail…

                      hence my original reference to the Chinese and the tides. People clearly see a discernible effect. Some may not see any discernible effect but that does not mean all people don’t.

                      And no, people pre-newton did not realise objects attracted objects – why would you think that? What evidence was there, other than apples falling to the ground, that objects attracted objects?

                      Try flat-round earth for a better analogy – betcha it was considered then as astrology is by you now …

                      edit: hey you can’t keep changing your post in the middle of my reply to you, that’s cheating

                    • TheContrarian

                      “And no, people pre-newton did not realise objects attracted objects – why would you think that? What evidence was there, other than apples falling to the ground, that objects attracted objects?”

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_gravitational_theory

                      I’m glad it is almost time for bed.

                    • McFlock

                      People clearly see a discernible effect.

                      They might think they see it, but it isn’t there. “Confirmation bias” springs to mind…

                    • vto

                      Yes it is time for (finishing this paperwork – you’re holding me up)

                      My point is … science keeps making new discoveries all the time about things that have existed since day dot.

                      Gravity was one.
                      A round earth was another
                      Continental drift was another

                      Just because science has not realised, measured and described something, does not mean that it currently does not exist (nor that some people in earth ‘see’ it, also before the scientists).

                      Astrology may be another.

                      Surely this is a base premise of science. Otherwise science must right now be at an end because all else not currently realised, measured and described is just hocus-pocus, like astrology. And maybe also like life elsewhere in the cosmos …. and aren’t our scientists honing in on that fast now ……
                      ……. anyone seen any discernible effect of life elsewhere in the cosmos contrarian?….

                      edit: you’re not very contrarian for a contrarian

                    • TheContrarian

                      There is an incorporeal floating dragon in my garage. Just because science has not realised, measured and described it, does not mean that it currently does not exist.

                      In other words, you should probably read more:
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World

                    • vto

                      Sure of course. Spectrums of wisdom and idiocy and all that. You see the point though I’m sure ….

                      Lets lay a bet – odds on that some form of ‘astrology’ (of which I am not actually a follower anyway) will be realised, measured and described by science in our lifetimes ….

                      oh, and evidence of life elsewhere in the cosmos ……

                      $2

                    • TheContrarian

                      You can’t just say “…some form of ‘astrology’”, that is completely meaningless.

                      You need to actually specify what it is would prove some form of astrology.

                  • Lanthanide

                    vto, that’s an unfair bet because you’re just saying “any sort of thing that can count as astrology”, and you’ll use whatever weasel words possible to extend any new revelation as fitting under the banner of “astrology”.

                    Also you might want to consider my comment below about aeroplanes.

                    • vto

                      No. I’m trying to circumvent the claim, if it does happen, that “well that actually isn’t astrology”

                      And yes I see your point about aeroplanes. Then of course there are dams and trains and big buildings (which generally make a location lighter due to the bulk of ground dug out for basement). I understand all of that but if you don’t mind I’m going to leave the door open because science is quite clearly constantly discovering new things we thought unimagineable in the past. And astrology for some like yourself is clearly unimagineable.

                    • TheContrarian

                      “And astrology for some like yourself is clearly unimagineable.”

                      Define what you mean by ‘astrology’

                    • Lanthanide

                      No, astrology is not unimaginable for me, but if the only mechanism of action you’re proposing is gravity, and nothing else, then logically any other potential/stronger form of gravity will have a greater effect.

                      If you’re proposing something ‘other’ than gravity, then you need to specify what it is. If you’re not willing to do that, then you’re effectively waiving your hands in the air about nothing and are not making any claims that a testable or falsifiable.

                      Yes, it’s perfectly possible that something “like astrology” might be discovered, but as of right now, there is no unbiased scientific evidence that suggests such a thing may be true.

                    • vto

                      I fear we are going round in circles. Contrarian I am not going to define astrology – I;m sure there are a few versions on Wikipedia.

                      And lanthanide, I limited it to gravity although clearly there could be other forces at play as well, some of which we may not even know of yet. I limited it to gravity because there was easily understandable tie-up between the moon and the tidal effect of that. Of course electromagnetic forces were unknown to science until science ‘found’ it. And a combo of gravity and electromagnetic and magnetic may well result in other forces. Then sound. And light. And maybe others. We didn’t all of these in the dark pasts – why would we assume we are at the peak of our knowledge now? That would just be foolish.

                      Please see all of my points above for further argument to your points.

                    • TheContrarian

                      So you want to have a bet with me that something is going to be discovered that you are unwilling or unable to define?

                      Electromagnetic forces were not unknown, just as gravity was not unknown.
                      Not understood =/= not known.

                      As with gravity – electromagnetism was known since antiquity:
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_electromagnetic_theory

                    • vto

                      sheesh man, circles round and round ….. see all other points made above in response…

                      and then check this eighties numbers for some light relief ….

                      gotta go … got a city to rebuild …. later

                      edit: and you are defeating yourself by expanding your point from scientific understanding to wider antiquity knowledge, which in fact supports my contention above about people ‘seeing’ various things long before science understands it . . . . . like astrology . . . check Wikipedia timeline on astrology in some decades in the future . . .

                    • TheContrarian

                      “which in fact supports my contention above about people ‘seeing’ various things long before science understands it . . . . . like astrology”

                      Gravity and electromagnetism were forces observed in antiquity without adequate explanation. Astrology has no observable effects (outside cognitive bias) therefore there is nothing to explain – particularly considering you have yet to even define ‘astrology’.

                      This is very simple and has been explained to you several times now.

                    • vto

                      You are too sure of yourself young man. Just because some don’t see it doesn’t mean others don’t see it……. as per above …. said several times now ….. round and round ….

                    • TheContrarian

                      I’m sorry but personal anecdote and cognitive bias is not evidence of anything.

                      Time and time again the effects people ascribe to astrology have not been shown to have an validity whatsoever. There is no method of action, no repeatable experiments, no statistical variance, not one piece of evidence for any effect of astrology whatsoever. It is totally incomparable with gravity or any other force as shown to you several times.

                      Your failure to understand the differences between the discovery of gravity and the proposed effect astrology not withstanding, you have nothing. You have proposed no testable examples, no definitions, no method of action, given no evidence in support of your position and have failed to explain why astrology does not show any accuracy in predicting behaviors

                      In short, you have provided nothing at all which merits any inquiry. Up until you actually define terms and propose a method of action you are basically saying that we should, on your say so, keep an open mind on something that has no determinable effect on anything at all.

                    • vto

                      you simply don’t get it do you contrarian. the point is flying miles over your head

                      out

                    • TheContrarian

                      Because you have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever to support anything you have said there is nothing to get.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Contrarian if birthdays are so unimportant how come there’s always cake?

                    • TheContrarian

                      I’d prefer scotch to cake

                    • weizguy

                      Hey vto – this might help:

                      https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      The position of the stars is therefore in harmony with the likelihood of scotch and cake. Are you going to deny the personality-shaping properties of scotch and cake?

                      QED.

                    • vto

                      So according to contrarian, unless something has observable or discernible effects today (and somebody has seen them and discerned them in a way acceptable to contrarian) then it is simply hocu-pocus and will never be scientifically proved.

                      Tell me contrarian, did humans when they marched up the Nile and out of Africa see observable effects of the Pacific Ocean?

                      Did humans 50 years ago see observable effects of life elsewhere in the cosmos? Did they? (And don’t give me that mumbo-jumbo about statistical likelihood that pops did down below because that applies to everything, and is different from what you have been saying)

                      But then I guess maybe you are right and we have seen and observed and discerned everything there is to see ….. There is no more to see and observe and discern …. it is all done and dusted…..

                      You need to try a different set of glasses. I can understand your point (having an undergraduate deg in various sciences, probably like you), but you are refusing, imo, to acknowledge my point. Your frame is singular.

                      And your point here “Because you have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever to support anything you have said there is nothing to get.” Ffs man, that is the entire point I have been trying to make. In the past in a whole bunch of arenas there has been no evidence whatsoever to support things, AND guess what …. it has later transpired that there has been something to get.

                      now pass me some cake and scotch

                    • Lanthanide

                      vto, your argument appears to be “science might one day prove some thing which I’m going to label “astrology”, and therefore because it’s possible it might happen in the future, it means we should accept it as fact now”.

                      We don’t have to accept anything as fact if there’s no proof for it. To do otherwise is faith.

                      Or to give you an analogy, it’s like saying “sometime in the future, science might be able to prove that a particular type of fusion reactor can create a wormhole that will let us travel lightyear distances in less than a second, so to say that “faster than light travel” is impossible is wrong, because science might prove it is possible in the future”.

                      Science deals with facts and observed evidence. There is no evidence to support astrology, the closest there is are psychological wishings of some individuals.

                    • northshoredoc

                      “In the past in a whole bunch of arenas there has been no evidence whatsoever to support things, AND guess what …. it has later transpired that there has been something to get.”

                      Yes quite, however, in relation to astrology it has been practised in various forms for millennia with no proof that it has any validity whatsoever. Testing of astrology has been undertaken, and no evidence has been found to support any of the premises or purported effects outlined in astrological traditions.

                      There’s also no proposed mechanism of action by which the positions and motions of stars and planets could affect people and events on Earth that does not completely contradict well understood, basic and proven aspects of biology and physics

                      ‘…now pass me some cake and scotch”

                      I think that’s something we can all agree on.

                    • TheContrarian

                      If he shown you twice why your ‘whole point’ fails but you seem to have not read or understood anything I have actually said.

                      You have failed to define astrology, failed to back up anything you have said, have provided no evidence nor any method of action.

                      What you seem to be saying is that we should believe astrology because science has failed to prove it wrong, shifting the burden of proof and asserting with anecdotes that it exists.

                      Your points about gravity and electromagnetism are not analogous to astrology. That ““In the past in a whole bunch of arenas there has been no evidence whatsoever to support things” is incorrect in relation to gravity and electromagnetism because there were real world evidence to study – which astrology doesn’t have.

                      Give me something, anything – some piece of evidence, something we can study because so far you have nothing.

                    • vto

                      Lanthanide, it seems oft-times I struggle to communicate my argument. But you suggest this…

                      “vto, your argument appears to be “science might one day prove some thing which I’m going to label “astrology”, and therefore because it’s possible it might happen in the future, it means we should accept it as fact now”.
                      We don’t have to accept anything as fact if there’s no proof for it. To do otherwise is faith.”

                      No, not quite. I am not saying we have to accept it as fact today at all. But there is perhaps an element of what you call “faith” which I am suggesting may in fact be an “observation”. Or also, it appears to me that many many things which have been dismissed as lunacy over the milleniums (a round earth, the earth going around the sun, life in space, continental drift, even evolution, and even soon maybe a form of God) have turned out to be not lunacy at all.

                      I will predict that soon a form of God will be scientifically proved (and probably before astrology).

                      I also rest a small part of my musings on an inherent trust in human instinct, which is also a form of what you call ‘faith’ I guess. We sense things which cannot be scientifically measured. Yet. But science is catching up fast ….. as it has been doing for a while.

                    • vto

                      Unfortunately I have to go again – the wild nowhere beckons for a few daze ….

                      One final thing: do you think the world that you are measuring these items of evidence from has the correct ruler and measuring tape for measuring that evidence? If your ruler is Euclidean then it can only measure in a Euclidean manner ….

                      thanks for the views

                    • TheContrarian

                      “Or also, it appears to me that many many things which have been dismissed as lunacy over the milleniums (a round earth, the earth going around the sun, life in space, continental drift, even evolution, and even soon maybe a form of God) have turned out to be not lunacy at all.”

                      Again, you making false analogies which i have shown three times to be false.

                      All of the above – a round earth, the earth going around the sun, life in space, continental drift, even evolution, and even soon maybe a form of God (expect God) can be studied. we can measure the earth, the drift on continents, speciation and make models regarding the likelihood of alien life but there nothing about astrology which can be studied so it is not the equivalent of the above examples.

                      This has been explained to you already.

                      So once again, give us some evidence of astrology which can be studied.

                    • vto

                      Ok I will say it one more time contrarian and try and make it as particular as I can for you by way of example

                      contrarian: ” a round earth, the earth going around the sun, life in space, continental drift, even evolution, and even soon maybe a form of God (expect God) can be studied. we can measure the earth, the drift on continents, speciation and make models regarding the likelihood of alien life”

                      Which Africans marching up the Nile and out of Africa studied, measured and made models of a round earth, life in space, the drift on continents?

                      Were they using Euclidean geometry or something else? Did they believe the cosmos was form of physical reality, or did they believe it was hocus-pocus and that the sun was a god?

                      Or do you simply believe that we have observed and measured everything already and that is it…. all remaining hocus-pocus will forever now be hocus-pocus. We are at the peak of observation.

                      logging off … really this time …

                    • TheContrarian

                      And once again you misunderstand everything, raise objections that have been answered several times, fail to provide any supporting evidence for your position and end with a straw-man.

                    • McFlock

                      vto,
                      this debate started because someone claimed that Farrar’s star sign meant Farrar had certain explicitly-specified personality traits.

                      That claim is bunk and was shown to be bunk decades ago.

                      This isn’t looking for some unknown force or effect, like xrays in medieval times. This is examining any correlation between specific observations within well-known and well-described criteria (birthdates and orbits), and other equally well-known and well-described criteria (exhibited personality traits). No correlation. If there is an effect, it is trivial compared to things like upbringing, society, genes and even the weather.

            • Lanthanide 5.1.2.1.1.2

              vto, you know that the thousands of airplanes flying around in the sky exert a greater gravitational pull on humans living on earth than any other planet in the solar system, and certainly any distant stars?

              Why then do we not have aerospace charts, that plot the relative distances of all of the planes in the world at the instant of someone’s birth, so that we can plot that person’s trajectory in life based on the gravitational effects of those planes?

              Because it would be completely insane. It’s also not romantic or mystical.

              • wonderpup

                So are you saying that when the 11:20 Auckland to Christchurch is rising in the east, I have a better chance of having an improvement in personal and work relationships? Man, you might be on to something. Does it matter if if its an ATR?

          • Populuxe1 5.1.2.1.2

            Apparently the tides think something astrology.

      • Mike the Savage One 5.1.3

        I cannot speak for the “contraversial nebulae” though, dear Contrarian, you may have some info about the planet wher e you come from, and I invite you to share.

        • Populuxe1 5.1.3.1

          I believe he’s from Planet Sane. Where, pray sir, are you from?

          • vto 5.1.3.1.1

            Planet Sane? Where the official story was always that the earth was flat because science hadn’t realised yet that it was in fact round?

            the official story

            we go full circle

            always believe the official story

            • Gosman 5.1.3.1.1.1

              It is a fallacy that people thought the world was flat till science came along. The concept of a round earth predated the development of the scientific method by many thousands of years,

            • Populuxe1 5.1.3.1.1.2

              The “official story” in this case is called “science”.
              http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8313026
              Statistically it’s crap and the weakarse gravitational influence of a planet hundreds or millions of miles away measured against arbitrary groups of stars each varying numbers of light years away has diddly-squat impact at the birth of a baby which has been developing since very roughly nine months previously.
              Although if it’s any consolation, you appear to be talking out Uranus.

              • vto

                Sure. And there is no life elsewhere in the cosmos because science hasn’t found evidence of any yet ………

                eh

                just keep believing the official story pops – that’s the way that humans have advanced. Sure. You’re onto it.

                • Populuxe1

                  Um, no – extraterrestrial life is a statistical probability based on scientific observation and deductive logic.
                  Astrology is a steaming sack of horseshit.
                  There is no relationship between the two except that stars may be involved.

          • felix 5.1.3.1.2

            TC may be from Sane but he sure ain’t from Observant.

            He doesn’t even know that the lunar cycle has physiological effects on humans. Sheesh.

            • Populuxe1 5.1.3.1.2.1

              Farrar is prone to menstrual cycles?

            • TheContrarian 5.1.3.1.2.2

              “He doesn’t even know that the lunar cycle has physiological effects on humans.”

              Apart from where I said the lunar cycle has a physiological effect on humans. But hey, so does the sun. And the weather. But I don’t see anyone rushing to try predict ones personality based upon the weather at their time of birth.

        • weka 5.1.3.2

          Mike, you ommitted to share that Peters is an Aries, and we all know what that means.

  6. dimebag russell 6

    Because winston is dashing and debonaire and is a hit with chicks while he farrar is a snivelling little tory kiss ass suckup with zits.

  7. Disraeli Gladstone 7

    The amount of conspiracy theory building on both sides is getting insane.

    We’ve hit peak conspiracy.

    • wonderpup 7.1

      I would like to suggest “trough conspiracy” as more appropriate. I would also like to suggest the influence of the Illuminati and the Elders of Zion.

  8. peterlepaysan 8

    Actually Farrar was remarkably polite about Winston Peters today on Nat Rad Jim Moragh Panel session.

    It would be interesting to see what Matthew Hooten thinks of it all , given his admiration ogf Winston.
    methinks the Nats are seriouslt thinking about being nice to Winston

  9. SPC 9

    This goes back to the 1990’s when NZF campaigned as an opposition party in 1996 and then went into coalition with Bolger’s National.

    Farrar became linked to the post coalition Shipley crew, that included NZF waka jumpers, thus the Horan’s of this world are his bread and butter.

    The Horan whispers are supposed to be a reminder of past issues that cut NZF support to below 5% (use of party leader funds etc)

    • SPC 9.1

      His 1990’s political background.

      staff in Ministerial Services under Jim Bolger (1996–1997)

      Prime Minister’s Office under Jenny Shipley (1997–1999).

      At National Party Head Office (1999) – election presumably.

      Two of the issues of the day were the break-up with NZF in 1998 and the new Shipley policy of increasing super by the CPI rather than keeping the connection to net average wage.

    • Tracey 9.2

      Dont under estimate the lingering hatred over the winebox,labour and nat fingerprints were all over that hence the collusion to shut winston down.

  10. ianmac 10

    Farrar is not so obvious in his obsession of Peters but certainly Garner is passionately obsessive.

  11. finbar 11

    Fear.

  12. Paul 12

    This post could easily be re titled why do right wingers hate so much?

  13. great article Geoff old WP is a bit of a worry…anything could happen

  14. Gosman 14

    Why isn’t it possible that David Farrar dislikes Winston’s politics and political style so he writes about him in a negative manner occasionally? There doesn’t have to be any conspiracy behind it. I see this as the left wing equivalent as right leaning people claiming the Standard is the mouth piece for the Labour party (or at least certain parts of it).

  15. Tracey 15

    presumably horan is job hunting right now? Nationals list is out isnt it? So he presumably isnt doing a Tau.

    But he is making himself attractive to the plethora of people in nz who hate winston.

    • geoff 15.1

      Before the election might be a tad obvious, but ol Brendan has got to protect his fat salary so maybe 2015 he’ll jump ship. depends on whether he’s been a good little boy for Johnny.

  16. Sanctuary 16

    Farrar is a grossly over-entitled political parasite, a Wellington courtesan who loves being near power and exercising power and imaging he can manipulate the powerful. As an unelected player, he joins the Gowers and the Garners and the rest of the incestuous parasites on the democratic establishment who are drunk on the idea of being able to exercise their power without fear of any responsibility or of being held accountable by democratic means.

    The trouble is though is that by being mere unelected parasites they all have no meaningful mandate. They exist in the game they are addicted to by the merest of threads – threads of influence and patronage and employment. Lose their job, fall out of favour, see your patron lose the election and suddenly they are nothing.

    So like all of the staggering drunks at that particular power party, the thing they hate and fear the most is an outsider who might call time on them and shut their cosy little gathering down. Hence the loathing of Winston, the insider-outsider.Hence the scorn and ridicule thrown at the IMP.

    When the courtesans and jesters and parasites to power hate and fear you, you just know you are onto something good for the country.

    • Gosman 16.1

      Kiwiblog and Curia did just fine prior to the 2008 election. David Farrar doesn’t seem to need political patronage as you imply.

  17. Chooky 17

    David Farrar is John Key’s Mini – Me !

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-Me

    ….and of course Farrar hates Winston because his boss hates Winston!

    ….and John Key hates Winston because he knows Winston despises him and will NOT form a coalition with NACT and will go with Labour if given the chance!

    Quite apart from this, David Farrar is a poseur ( his latest persona is that of a widely travelled urbane mountain climbing trekker…i kid you not!) and he hates Winston because he is authentic!

  18. Marius 18

    Deeper than deep. Deeper than the ocean, deeper than the notion that the world was flat when it was round.

  19. Gosman 19

    Thie title of this post could equally be turned around to read “Why do some contributors to
    The Standard obsess about David Farrar so much?”. It is as if you can’t stand any person expressing a political viewpoint other than a left leaning one.

    I’ve stated this before but it deserves another airing, There is an intolerance streak in leftist politics which is quite ugly and potentially dangerous.

    • geoff 19.1

      There is an intolerance streak in leftist politics which is quite ugly and potentially dangerous.

      Classic!

      • Gosman 19.1.1

        Is it not intolerant of opposing views to express the opinion that people like David Farrar should not get time to express their views on media such as Radio NZ National?

      • wonderpup 19.1.2

        This mirroring of criticism of right wing politics back to the left really grinds my gears. The right accusing the left of intolerance, like the implications of labour party racism over immigration this week, just demonstrated for me how little the right actually understand the issue.

    • And yet, your comments are regularly allowed to stand, right here, on the insular, intolerant, censorship-ridden Standard. Ain’t that a thing?

      • The Real Matthew 19.2.1

        From what I’ve seen Gosman is the most heavily moderated contributor to this site.

        Whilst others make all sorts of threats and wish hatful things upon John Key with no moderation whatsoever.

        • Tracey 19.2.1.1

          More than pete george?

        • Murray Olsen 19.2.1.2

          What threats? You have a vivid imagination, or are you just copying Key in thinking that it’s true because you say it?

        • phillip ure 19.2.1.3

          “..others make all sorts of threats and wish hatful things upon John Key ..

          well..y’see matthew..key is the douchebag who has been asset-stripping our country..

          ..and selling us out to the american spooks..

          ..(as just two of his litany..)

          ..are you insisting we also say nice things about him..?

          ..and not ‘wish hateful things’ on him..?

          ..good luck with that..eh..?..

        • Tracey 19.2.1.4

          Can you point to the threats against mr key and the wishing of hateful things on him by

          “others” “with no moderation”

      • Tracey 19.2.2

        Plus 1

  20. dimebag russell 20

    yeah but its not fair and balanced. Radio New Zealand has fallen into the hands of a sad little gang of righties scared of their own shadows. They know all the words but they dont know the truth about anything and dont want to.

    • srylands 20.1

      “Radio New Zealand has fallen into the hands of a sad little gang of righties ”

      Seriously?

      • Gosman 20.1.1

        Yeah many lefties here seriously think that srylands. They don’t really give much thought about how the right has achieved this dominance over a supposedly independent government agency and especially in the editorial team of the News section. They do think it has something to do with Richard Griffin but don’t really expand how he can have direct or even indirect influence over operational appointments.

        • J Mex 20.1.1.1

          If you line up 2000 people who are passionately left and 2000 people who are passionately right, and run a survey about whether they think TVNZ/National Radio/Herald are left leaning or right leaning, I suspect you would get close to 2000 people saying one thing, and 2000 people saying the other.

          It isn’t useful.

          We all tend to subconsciously think that when the media are ‘having a go’ at ‘our team’ they are being biased, but when they are ‘having a go’ at the ‘other team’ they are, well, – reporting the news.

          Go to Kiwiblog, and they will be banging on about ‘Communist National Radio’ and ‘Red TVNZ’.

          Here, there’s been a ‘Right wing takeover’ at both

          It’s facile and boring.

          • Gosman 20.1.1.1.1

            Yep. That to me suggests the balance in the media is about equal. The fact both sides bitch and moan about supposed bias.

            • J Mex 20.1.1.1.1.1

              Pretty much. But what I actually can’t work out is whether people say what they say about media bias because of a lack of self awareness/objectivity, or whether they say it to make themselves and others feel better about ‘their team’. Or – more likely, a combination of the two

              My view is that ‘the Media’ are in the business of selling advertising, and attracting/keeping viewers/listeners so will publish/broadcast stuff that achieves those things, and will have people in their organisation who are left/right/central/indifferent.

              It’s just absurd to have people passionate and vehement about how biased THE SAME media organisations are, on both sides of the divide.

              • Gosman

                What I find absurd is people on the left complain about supposed bias in the MSM yet their solution is to have the government intervene to try and remove it instead of setting up an alternative media source on their own (this and some other websites excepted of course).

                • Blue

                  It’ll never happen, it would mean some sort of effort would need to be made. Its much easier to throw tantrums and say “BIAS”.

  21. Brokenback 21

    Farrar pushes the brandkey line 24/7.

    Brandkey exists because of the slagging/character assassination they did on Winston in 2008 .

    They would not have got the seamless silent press treatment on their legislative program 1st term with Winston in the house .

    Brandkey has an abiding and valid fear that Winston will gobble massive amounts of their conservative regional/rural support , where life is no where near as wonderful as they claim.
    The result of which will be be not only loss of the treasury benches[ which is looking increasingly likely] but a rout of the magnitude of ’99.

    They’ve got nothing to sell to the electorate and a well funded campaign by Mana/Internet to mobilise the 2008/11 Non-voting block will see them gone .
    When they can’t massage/fabricate the Poll results in their favour because the shift against them is too great their blind support by the 6pm news consumers will evaporate.

    • Gosman 21.1

      In your world National won’t just lose this election but also lose massively. Is that correct? If so it is a very strange world you live in.

      • Brokenback 21.1.1

        I live in regional nz and times are tough.
        Drystock farming continues to yield poorly , Raw log prices are declining rapidly and our absurdly overvalued dollar reduces returns significantly on all primary produce, the young have fled en masse.
        The rural rump has very little in common with the auckland national cabal and are genuinely alarmed at the rate at which rural land is being gobbled up by the Chinese , fertile ground for winston
        Its a real & distinct possibility that they will desert in droves and very much at the core of Brandkey’s ‘Play the man, not the ball’ strategy.

        • geoff 21.1.1.1

          That’s why an urban money trader like Key is completely out of touch with his party’s traditional, rural base. He can’t relate to the rural experience.

    • seeker 21.2

      And Broken back-
      I was so stunned at the onslaught in full view on TV that I began recording. I recorded every attack and spin from all political reporters aided by Rodney Hide, and eventually every pas de deux key performed with guyon espiner until the day after the election Espiner stood outside the gallery and actually said “we did it” ! “we” . I had never realised Espiner was a national party member of parliament although he might just as well have been!
      I had begun to have my suspicions that he was a member of the national party in fact by the time key got into parliament I had begun to believe that unless you voted National you would not get or keep a job at TVNZ, you HAD to be on the same page and spin the same lines. Only Fran Mold and Kris Faafoi seemed slightly untainted. Scott Campbell along with the obvious Garner on TV3 I had gleaned was out for Key and he eventually went to staff for Banks in his mayoralty bid.
      Everyone else, starting with the inaccurate and unwarranted attack on Peters from his McCain interview by Espiner and Barry Soper followed and morphed from there.
      Suddenly I was very aware of ‘nz politics’. I had been familiar with spinning and stinging attacks on anyone but thatcher and her acolytes by the many Murdoch owned papers in Britain but I had never seen TV political journalists go after a political party before and be so obviously more and more in cahoots with an opposition party trying to get into power . Even Espiner’s friend Therese Arseneau was wheeled out for extra ammo!
      How these people have got away with it I don’t know and are now still in positions of real access to the mind of new zealanders and able to spin and “”propagate as Tony Benn once said of thatcher “rotten values”.

      Oh yes – it’s probably to do with the people in power at the moment………..

      Thank God for MMP because that can play havoc with electoral outcomes and even the Nacts can’t control it completely ,although they did try by using Peters and their spin to tarnish it.

      PS I had known nothing of these people when I started observing their behaviours in late 2007 or thereabouts, but by the time Owen Glenn was also wheeled out, I said, having heard and watched his “testimony” at the special privileges committee and seen a ghastly documentary on him, that he was out for himself and if National came to power he would get a knighthood out of this (instead of Monaco). And as we know, he did.

  22. Well Goseman the gallop polls tell us that the Nats are home and dried .Having spent the biggest part of my working life in the horse racing industry I can assure you more “dead certs”have been beaten than havew won.
    I find the polls mind boggling because I ask the people of the Waikato their views on this government and the answers are not in favour of National , This from the Waikato so what would it be like in the real poor areas.Im not expecting a land slid ut I would not be surprised,

    • Gosman 22.1

      Seems to me you are trying to have a bob each way.

    • Brokenback 22.2

      My experience exactly.

      There was a “spike” in local/general political conversation when Parker released the policy on RBA and there’s no doubt that the doublespeak on housing policy contained in Budget 2014 was squarely aimed at limiting policy debate of any kind.

  23. dimebag russell 23

    so national will lose and davey the fatboy will be really pissed off an winston singin’ maghty lak a rose!
    tee hee.

  24. reason 24

    Thanks to this thread I now have a disturbing image of Farrar being the court eunuch ‘ Varys’ aka ‘ the spider’, from the Game of Thrones ……….. just out of interest does he get around in silk robes ?

  25. Awww 25

    I think I saw DF on FindSomeone(?)

  26. Clean_power 26

    Enough to say that Farrar hates Peters and NZF as much as he hates Labour.

  27. dimebag russell 27

    farrar hates everyone. thats the nub.

  28. Best ever thread on The Standard. I love the side-track into astrology.

    I guess it would be far too simple to ask me directly why I dislike Winston as a politician.

    It goes back to the early 1990s when he defamed numerous people under parliamentary privilege, including several neutral public servants. He once made the mistake of repeating his lie outside Parliament and got done by Selwyn Cushing for defamation.

    I was a member of the Young Nationals Executive that in 1992 (off memory) asked the Party’s National Executive to expel Peters from the party. So the conspiracy theories about Brendan Horan and the like are amusing, but rather off the planet.

    I could also add on half a dozen other reasons for my dislike of Peters (which is rare – I like most MPs) such as his splitting up the Coalition in 1998, his lies over the Owen Glenn donations, his racist scaremongering against Asians etc. But we don’t have all day. Suffice to say my position on Peters has been rather consistent for 20 years or so.

  29. Just to clarify – did readers here find Peters comparing Brendan Horan to an alleged serial paedophile but being unwilling to repeat those allegations outside the House acceptable?

    • Mike the Savage One 29.1

      KS – you express a lack of insight, as this is NOT a New Zealand or Winston First forum. What a stupid question to ask. Such low level stuff may be considered more common and “acceptable” where some sudden visitors to this blog forum and thread seem to come from.

      Rest assured, Peters’ comparison of that sort did not go down well here.

  30. Charlieboy 30

    I thought those comments unacceptable. Just as I found David Farrar dressing up as Jimmy Saville for a party unacceptable,and put the image on line.But nobody said boo about that. National Radio even keeps him on as a commentator.Its not bloody funny.

    • srylands 30.1

      “National Radio even keeps him on as a commentator.Its not bloody funny.”

      Maybe because he says sensible stuff that resonates with listeners. Go figure.

  31. Radio New Zealand has fallen into the hands of a sad little gang of righties scared of their own shadows

    “Righties” don’t work for govt owned radio stations.

    Nor are they afraid.

    • srylands 31.1

      I simply don’t think of Radio NZ (or most NZ media) in “left” or “right” terms. My complaint with Radio NZ journalism, and their stories, is that they are irrelevant and just plain BAD. Like The Womens Weekly on radio (and the DOM Post has defintely reached those depths).

      I do read international left leaning media if it is decent quality.

    • dimebag russell 31.2

      oh yes they do and thats what really pisses them off. the fact that that it isn’t laid on for them and their sense of entitlement still does not mean that they dont have to work.
      they are not plutocrats.
      i.e they have no money.
      ha ha ha fucking ha.
      after all they are just hired hands.
      and of course they are afraid.
      in their heart of hearts they know they are egregiously wrong for being so greedy and if the revolution comes it will be up against the wall muthafucka for them!
      suck on that.

      • Redbaiter 31.2.1

        “it will be up against the wall muthafucka for them!”

        I repeat, only communists would work for a state broadcaster.

        That communists commonly disagree among themselves on matters of ideological purity is not news.

        However, its a bit of a smack in the eye for all of the “socialists” who say they’ve changed their spots to see you advocating for the same course of action towards disbelievers as led to the deaths of around 100 million citizens last century. Really quite damaging to their claims to have learnt from their mistakes.

        I have always said that scratch a modern day Progressive and underneath is the same old mass murdering commie totalitarian.

        Idiots like you make it pretty hard to avoid that conclusion.

        • dimebag russell 31.2.1.1

          that is not a conclusion.
          it is mere assertion after a long list of assertions.
          having a different opinion or better still a complete analysis and profile of any other is not to say that idiots in general make it hard to avoid this that or any other conclusion.
          radio new zealand is staffed by a cadre of sad little right wing tory journalists who are simply shilling for their side for money.
          it wouldnt be so bad but they are all whingers to boot like gluon spineless and suzy fungus.

  32. Charlieboy 32

    So is dressing up as Jimmy Saville sensible? Does it resonate with you? Should RNZ keep on a commentator who thinks such behaviour is a joke?

  33. Mike the Savage One 33

    Behold, oh shock, oh horror, a space ship of aliens has invaded, are they from the constellation of Virgo or from Serpens?

    I fear the latter, a hydra spitting venom, insult and abuse.

    Let’s get the anti venom out and deal to them!

    One David Farrar is shit scared now, as Winston Peters is likely to become not only difficult to fathom and predict, he is becoming much less relevant now, as the new contender on the block, a Internet Mana Party (IMP) is going to stir up the political landscape, and likely bring a surprise of over 5 percent of the vote on 20 September.

    With that Labour and Greens may not even need Winston First, and take over the helm from Key and gang without him. I hear that John Key is on the phone, desperately chatting up one Colon Craig, to jump in and rescue the sinking Titanic.

    He sent his loyal “messenger” and ground tester here, to investigate the more enlightened forum, desperately trying to find out more, and feel the pulse, of forces to reckon with.

  34. Paul 34

    Do the Herald ask David Farrar what headlines they should write and what stories they should feature?
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11265426

  35. Brendan Horan 35

    Hi all,
    1)I’ve had no contact with David Farrer.
    2) All questions I’ve asked have been on behalf of people bullied by the leader of NZ First.
    3)I was challenged by media to supply evidence and I did.
    4) My sources are Past employees, past and current party members and former NZ First Party MP’s.
    5)The speaker is investigating the Leader of NZ First and I’m happy for due process and natural justice to run its course.
    Regards,
    Brendan

    • mickysavage 35.1

      Thanks Brendan.

    • Paul 35.2

      Seems pretty petty what you are doing.
      Don’t you think that prioritising getting rid of this government should come above your personal vendetta?
      285 000 kids in poverty and climate change come first, don’t you think?
      Or your personal needs?

      • bad12 35.2.1

        Paul, that’s not nice, Brendan is doing an excellent, albeit rather insipid, job of trying to leverage some of Winston’s voter support base away from Him,

        There’s no gain from undertaking such a thankless task on Brendan’s part,(except utu), should He tho destabilize enough of the NZFirst %,(which i doubt), all those Parties that do enter the next Parliament might dine out on their share of it if NZFirst fails to reach 5%…

        (National i would suggest will NOT be able to form the next Government without NZFirst, Labour/Green/Internet/Mana, now that’s another story)…

    • bad12 35.3

      Brendan, perhaps you could have a dig in your tool-box and come up with a more robust angle of attack on Winston, every little bit helps…

    • are you doing a shane jones..?

      ..making sure you spray/piss on as many people as possible as you exit..?

      ..and for why..?

      ..you’re an ex-weatherman..

      ..you should be able to tell which way the wind is blowing..eh..?

      ..and it’s currently not beneath yr wings..eh..?

      ..in fact..you could be deemed to be pissing into a serious southerly..

      ..eh..?

      • bad12 35.4.1

        Do you have a use for Winston Peters to be in the Parliament after this election Phillip???, he was of political use in the last one but His dishonest ”inscrutable” i am not telling who i will go into coalition with till after the election makes Him the major potential obstacle to the formation of a left wing Government,

        (An unkind person might add Labour into that category as well)…

      • felix 35.4.2

        I have been reliably informed that one does not require the attendance of a meteorologist in order to ascertain the trajectory of a shift in barometric pressure.

    • Anne 35.5

      4) My sources are Past employees, past and current party members and former NZ First Party MP’s.

      Well, if one of those past NZ First employees is Michael Laws, I’d have some doubt about its veracity.

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Hard News: Dealer’s Choice, an oral history from Planet 1994
    In 1994, I was the editor for an issue of Planet magazine focused on cannabis, its culture and the prospects for the end of its prohibition. Part of that issue was an interview with 'Ringo', an experienced cannabis dealer.I recently posted my essay from that issue, and I figured it ...
    1 day ago
  • The invasion of women’s sports by men: some facts
    Dr Helen Waite, sports sociologist and former elite athlete, on the invasion of women’s sport by men and the anti-scientific and misogynist ideology used to rationalise it.   ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 days ago
  • Remainers starting to sound like fascists
    As Brexit comes to a grisly conclusion (perhaps) people on all sides are saying intemperate and uwise things.  Some, like the Daly Mail, have been doing it for years.People as normally level headed as Jon Lansman are calling for automatic deselection of MPs who vote against a (likely) Labour three ...
    2 days ago
  • Labour MPs supporting Johnson’s turd-sandwich deal?
    I find this unbelievable:
    I've got one source saying more Labour MPs than expected are mulling whether to vote for the deal - including names who were not on the letter to Juncker and Tusk— Emilio Casalicchio (@e_casalicchio) 17 October 2019 I've compiled a list of possible reasons why Labour ...
    2 days ago
  • Why do we need control orders again?
    On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Bullshitting the Minister
    On Monday, the Hit and Run inquiry heard from NZDF's former director of special operations, who claimed that the defence Minister knew everything about the Operation Burnham raid. Today, the inquiry heard from that (former) Minister - and it turns out that he didn't know nearly as much as NZDF ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Speaker: Extinction Rebellion is not a cult (but ecstasy for the people)
    Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
    3 days ago
  • We need to bring the police under control
    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    3 days ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    3 days ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    4 days ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
    Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    4 days ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    4 days ago
  • Asking for food
    There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    4 days ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
    John MacCormick Over the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    4 days ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    4 days ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    4 days ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    5 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    5 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    5 days ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    5 days ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    5 days ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    6 days ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    6 days ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    6 days ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    6 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    1 week ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    1 week ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Is this study legit? 5 questions to ask when reading news stories of medical research
    Hassan Vally, La Trobe University Who doesn’t want to know if drinking that second or third cup of coffee a day will improve your memory, or if sleeping too much increases your risk of a heart attack? We’re invested in staying healthy and many of us are interested in reading ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    1 week ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago