Winston and the refugee issue

30 comments on “Winston and the refugee issue ”

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1. Chris T 1

   4 September 2018 at 12:56 pm

   Unless there is something they have agreed to outside the coalition agreement, I severely doubt Winston will allow it to happen.

   To flammable with his core constituency.
   • Enough is Enough 1.1

     4 September 2018 at 2:51 pm

     This is bread and butter policy for Winston.

     He represents those who want to close the borders (especially to those coming from the third world or Asia).

     Winston will stand in the way. I think Labour would be best to approach National over this rather than wasting their time with Winston.
2. SPC 2

   4 September 2018 at 1:46 pm

   A Labour Minister said they could/would not increase the quota (to 1500) until they had the capacity to do so. So they have allocated some money to improve capacity so they can indicate their committment to their manifesto policy.

   And NZF has said an increase in numbers was not in the coalition agreement.

   Which would mean an actual increase in numbers could be a matter delayed until after the next election, or a point conceded in return for something (also not in the coalition agreement) NZ First wants.
3. Bill 3

   4 September 2018 at 1:55 pm

   So, what was NZ First’s stated policy on refugees? And what (if anything) did the coalition agreement have to say on refugees?

   If NZ First had (for want of a better term) an anti-refugee policy, and the coalition agreement is silent on the refugee front, then…
   • SPC 3.1

     4 September 2018 at 2:18 pm

     Refugees are not mentioned in the Labour-NZ First coalition agreement.
     • Bill 3.1.1

       4 September 2018 at 2:37 pm

       And NZ First’s policy on refugees? Can you shed any light on that?

       edit

       New Zealand should take only women and children refugees from Syria and tell the men to return home and fight, NZ First leader Winston Peters says.

       Asked about the Government’s decision to bring in an emergency intake of 600 Syrian refugees over three years, Mr Peters reiterated his position that more refugees should be settled – but only if immigration levels were significantly reduced.

       So, knowing this was Peter’s position, is it fair enough to surmise that refugees weren’t that high on NZ Labour’s list of priorities? I mean, they’d have made damned sure to clear that kind of shit up if it was, no?

       Hmm. Maybe the thought was to run with ‘feel good’ sound bites and cross that bridge when they came to it? Well. Thon’s a bridge.
       • SPC 3.1.1.1

         4 September 2018 at 2:49 pm

         The NZ First page is linked to by media but it is no longer there, the only option is finding a 2017 news media report that says what it was.
4. Tuppence Shrewsbury 4

   4 September 2018 at 2:16 pm

   So, you’re saying Labours policy will still happen despite winstons veto?
   • infused 4.1

     4 September 2018 at 4:11 pm

     No.
5. roy cartland 5

   4 September 2018 at 3:00 pm

   Let him bluster. He says he didn’t agree to raise the quote, but it doesn’t mean he can’t. Give him his plausible deniability, that’s all he needs.
   • greywarshark 5.1

     4 September 2018 at 3:20 pm

     Don’t diss the coalition process Roy. The idea is that they work together for the country’s good. It will mean some compromise but each party will want to see some improvement in the factors that bother them.
     • roy cartland 5.1.1

       4 September 2018 at 4:00 pm

       Fair enough. I think we’re pretty much saying the same thing, but I think Winston has to (and should be) framing the issue in the way that makes sense to his voters. In some ways I think NZF is actually a good brake on LAB. It actually makes a lot of sense, and is functioning how an upper house might in other parliaments.
       • D'Esterre 5.1.1.1

         4 September 2018 at 11:36 pm

         Roy Cartland: ” I think Winston has to (and should be) framing the issue in the way that makes sense to his voters.”

         Quite so. I also wondered whether his location influenced his comments; whether he judged it inappropriate to sound too generous regarding refugees, given that they’re all in Nauru at present.
6. greywarshark 6

   4 September 2018 at 3:13 pm

   It would be quite good if we could get a better policy on immigration, limiting numbers within a minimum and maximum (to allow some flexibility and considering extended families), to balance a rise in the number of refugees and still remain noticeably lower than recent annual levels. Also reorganised policies about work visas etc.for students, and controlling house buying by any new NZs or non-residents.

   It is refugees who need urgent attention and acceptance after screening. (This may involve taking on some piteous cases who will need extensive support and medical help. We might set an absolute number of families with one or two such problems in any year.)

   The thing about refugees, they are motivated and survivors. Most of them will be able to achieve and assimilate. We could also work in with other countries who might take some of the Manos? or Nauru? group, and supply them with the medical personnel, training and supplies to deal with them.

   The problem is that refugees have been in limbo* so long outside Australia, that it has affected them negatively to a probable lifetime extent. (Recent reports have come of withdrawn, zombie-like children which probably reflects their parents’ state of being.) Similar might have been seen at the opening of concentration camps after wars. Better in future to find a way to get them out of Australia’s hands before they can do them so much harm. That country will never get more civilised than they are now, and on 1-10 scale I don’t rate them highly.
   (*limbo : an uncertain period of awaiting a decision or resolution; an intermediate state or condition.)
7. dukeofurl 7

   4 September 2018 at 3:49 pm

   The ” rebuild” at Mangere was authorised some years back

   “The Mangere Refugee Resettlement Centre (the Centre) has been rebuilt following approval of the New Zealand Refugee Resettlement Strategy and Government financial commitments in Budgets 2013 and 2014.”
   https://www.immigration.govt.nz/about-us/what-we-do/our-strategies-and-projects/refugee-resettlement-strategy/rebuilding-the-mangere-refugee-resettlement-centre
   Doest mean the money was spent for that as recent stories have INZ not even having the money in budget for deporting those who have been here illegally for many many years.

   Same goes for the new money- its ‘over 4 years’
   “May budget it put aside $6.2 million over four years of new operating funding, along with $7.7 million over four years to build and operate two new accommodation blocks at the centre.”

   I would think $7.7 mill would only build 1 block in current construction environment.

   As well there seems to be an assumption , money in 2018 budget is spent immediately- doesnt happen, especially for capital works.

   Lees Galloway looks like he hasnt done the paperwork to get Cabinet approval for ‘the quota’ to increase. Not that they could do anything for another 2 years at least.

   Its a bit like the Kermadec Sanctuary , Key announced it at the UN but didnt get the OK from the Maori party here , so it went on the back shelf as MP were more than a little bit opposed.
8. Grantoc 8

   4 September 2018 at 8:16 pm

   I’d say this is a real test of Ardern’s leadership.

   There is already a perception that Peter’s is the real power in this coalition. If he wins this argument then the perception will have become reality.

   If Ardern stands up to him and Labour is able to implement it’s policy, it will be a significant win for her and will restore a more appropriate balance of power between Labour and NZ First. She has to do it for her own credibility and for Labours.
   • dukeofurl 8.1

     4 September 2018 at 8:58 pm

     How quickly they forget
     Remember this one when Key had to backtrack
     https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/key-pulls-back-rma-reform-detente-talk-bd-160658

     And this one announced on the World stage that didnt have the OK from others
     https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/pm-announces-kermadec-ocean-sanctuary

     ohh yes , yet again
     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10659984
     Energy and Resources Minister Gerry Brownlee yesterday confirmed the Government’s complete retreat from proposals to allow mineral exploration on 7068ha of protected conservation land on Great Barrier Island, the Coromandel Peninsula, and Paparoa National Park
     That was even a revolt from their own Mps
     https://www.newshub.co.nz/general/national-mp-says-no-to-mining-great-barrier-2010032318
   • Ross 8.2

     5 September 2018 at 7:08 am

     There is already a perception that Peter’s is the real power in this coalition. If he wins this argument then the perception will have become reality.

     He may be using this issue as a bargaining chip for the horse racing reforms that have been recommended. If Labour and the Greens support those recommendations, he may soften his stance on extra refugees.
9. Timeforacupoftea 9

   4 September 2018 at 8:44 pm

   Ardern Said : Supporting a budget that included millions of dollars to build infrastructure necessary for the increase but then questioning the increase is rather odd. What else did they think the facilities would be used for ?

   Well the Street and Vehicle Dwellers appear to be growing faster in Auckland since the coalition was formed so the nice new Refugee Resettlement Centres will be put to better use here than importing another drag on society.
   Lets fix this first.
   • Janet 9.1

     4 September 2018 at 10:54 pm

     10O% agree. Rehabilitate our own. The help that we give to a handful of refugees is but a drop in an ocean of refugees from over-populated, dysfunctional countries.
10. Antoine 10

    5 September 2018 at 12:35 am

    I agree with WP. We should only increase the refugee quota if it is necessary to retain our good international standing. And then, only by the minimum necessary.

    A.
11. Cynical Jester 11

    5 September 2018 at 12:59 am

    It’s days like this we are reminded that it’s not a labour government but a full Labour/NZF coalition govt. Both parties promised many things that they cant possibly deliver under this arrangement. Nzf is anti immigration conservative nationalist party it can’t be seen to be letting more people in the country especially after it and labours empty promises on lowering immigration. Winston won’t budge on this

    Going through National to up the refugee quota will piss Winston off and he may vote with them on something out of revenge and that’ll make the govt look weak in the publics eyes.

    Winstons been pretty bloody loyal to labour in coalition and has defended labour policy. I don’t think we should risk the government looking like a shambles over this and should focus on common ground like the disgusting levels of poverty homelessness and suicide in nz.

    I wanna tripple the quota btw and will keep advocating for it but it and many desperately needed things ain’t happening till after 2020…
12. marty mars 12

    5 September 2018 at 9:03 am

    Winston is positioning and his followers will love it. Nothing has changed just more bigotry and self serving predijuice.
    • Delia 12.1

      6 September 2018 at 10:21 am

      .. or people wanting the best for New Zealanders who actually are born here and currently live in insecure accommodation on low wages. Yes we could lift the refugee quota, but what to do about those here who live perilous lives, which is many of us do actually. Any answer to that?
      • marty mars 12.1.1

        6 September 2018 at 10:27 am

        It is a distribution issue. I’d not let people have more than 2 houses. I wouldn’t let people be landlords. I’d make employers increase wages to at least the living wage but even more when possible. What I wouldn’t do is blame innocent people.
13. Brutus Iscariot 13

    5 September 2018 at 9:50 am

    The clue is in the name of his party.

    So, fair enough.
14. Jimmy 14

    5 September 2018 at 10:06 am

    I think Winston is flexing his muscles
15. Ffloyd 15

    5 September 2018 at 3:58 pm

    So Winston wants Labour to look after it’s own weak, homeless and starving citizens before it looks at increasing refugee quota by 500. So how does he justify ten million dollars on an all weather indoor racing track. Does he turn it into a pop up village for displaced and disenfranchised citizens in the off season. Or don’t they have one? Do we need the opportunity to gamble all year round? And i really did not like his timing for giving the old one,two to Jacinda. Couldnt have lowered himself any lower in my opinion. Sad to see.
16. Jamie Karl 16

    1 October 2018 at 4:41 pm

    We have no responsibility to take any refugees or immigrants.
    • McFlock 16.1

      1 October 2018 at 4:56 pm

      Except basic human decency.
      And the responsibility of living up to international treaties we’ve signed in order to do exactly that.

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