Workers be careful, says Aussie Unionist

Written By: Dancer - Date published: 10:13 pm, May 7th, 2008 - 158 comments
Categories: workers' rights - Tags: ACTU, labour, national, Unions, workers' rights

Sharan Burrow (President of Australian Council of Trade Unions) talked to Morning Report about the union experiences in Australia under a conservative government, and their hope for the future with Kevin Rudd. She also had some words of warning for NZ workers:

“We say to your workers here, be very careful, you don’t want to go backwards to the early 90s, it’s a world that is not good for working people. Rights at work are fundamental and I would urge all of your workers to make sure that political parties here, if they want to change the government, actually, do the right thing by workers.

Certainly when we look across the ditch….we see you with a rights base that’s been reconstructed after the era of the early 90s that does much better things with collective bargaining, much more respectful of workers. And we were so envious of that in the last eleven years. So be careful, don’t go backwards, that’s our message.”

It highlights that Labour Relations is core policy for the left. The extent to which National can make itself a small target on this one will be really interesting.

UPDATE: Radion NZ podcast here.

158 comments on “Workers be careful, says Aussie Unionist ”

Comments are now closed

vto 1

8 May 2008 at 8:04 am

An area I applaud labour on. Sticking up for the workers.

Mind you, sometimes they get carried away …
big bruv 2

8 May 2008 at 8:47 am

Great…so Labour “stick up for workers”

Is this why our wages are so far behind Aussie? Labour have had nine years to improve the lot of the working man yet the gap continues to grow.
higherstandard 3

8 May 2008 at 8:51 am

BB

You forget the Standard line on this issue it’s the employers fault that wages are lower than Australia.

[lprent: I’ve never said anything about workers rights. Tane and Irish usually do.]

IrishBill says: Wrong HS – http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=945 but given it’s employers who have failed to invest in productive capital and who have spent the last eight years making big profits while paying wage increases only a little higher than inflation I think they can probably shoulder some of the blame.
mawgxxxxvi 4

8 May 2008 at 9:12 am

Surely union officials have a vested interest in workers remaining union members irrespective of the real benefit to the workers, after all their jobs and salaries depend on worker union fees.

As far as income levels are concerned isn’t it funny how those who earn the most are not members of unions ? The highest earners are those who take responsibility for their own lives and don’t hand that off to unions (or governments ). Being a union member is not a good predictor of a high income.
IrishBill 5

8 May 2008 at 9:19 am

Maw, do you ever make a statement that is based in fact? Union members get higher wages than their non-unionised peers. The highest increases in earnings however, are senior management. Last year the average salary increase for CEO’s of large companies was 25%. Here’s a tip: CEO’s generally are not union members.

To be honest you’re continual stream of mis-information is becoming a little dull.
jafapete 6

8 May 2008 at 9:31 am

Magwxxxxvi, a truely magnificent display of ignorance! Allow me to disabuse you of some of your blind prejudice.

“Surely union officials have a vested interest in workers remaining union members irrespective of the real benefit to the workers.”

Fact: workers are free to join or leave unions in this country (where there is one available).
Fact: research here, as elsewhere shows that NZ workers have a largely instrumental approach to union belonging. There are a few who join for ideological reasons, but they are relatively very few.
Fact: research shows that not only are union members generally very positive with their unions (as one would expect, belonging being voluntary), but a substantial chunk of the non-members in unionised workplaces believe that they would be worse off without unions (call these people free-riders). These people see benefits in belonging, and are in a better position to judge this than you are, mawgie.
Fact: research also shows that in NZ, as elsewhere, a substantial number of those in non-union workplaces say that they would like to join if they could. Around 30%. Most of the rest are indifferent, as one might expect given that (the research shows) these people tend to know little about unions. Very few think that they would be worse off with a workpace union.

Then you say, “As far as income levels are concerned isn?t it funny how those who earn the most are not members of unions?”

If we look at the employed, you will be surprised to learn that levels of unionisation RISE as income rises, until well into the top tax bracket. Same with education, rises to post-graduate degree level. You are surprised because your views are rooted in mid-20th century prejudice and bear little relationship to 21st century reality. What does the modal union member look like? Forget the cloth cap and think nurse-manager. (Did I mention gender? More female unionists than male, now).

So, mawgie, now you have no excuse for your ignorance. References available on request.
Steve Pierson 7

8 May 2008 at 9:33 am

maw. it’s not true that the highest paid professions are not unionised – look at how highly unionised doctors are.

In fact, some of the high paid professions are not just unionised they effectively have guilds, which is but a stroger form of collecive organsiation than a union – the Law Society, the Chartered Accountants, the Medical Council – they police their industry, prevent people they don’t want from practising in it and, as the is the point of any workers’ collective, ensure good rates and conditions for their members.

Capitialists form ‘unions’ all the time – the Employers’ and Manufacturers’ Assocation, the Chambers of Commerce, Business NZ, the Business Roundtable, dozens of industry lobby groups. These are all forms of collective organisations intended, just like a union, to improve the conditions and rewards for their members.

Collective action makes sense,united people are much stronger than they are divided – good lobby groups get the outcomes their members want, highly unionised industries have higher pay. So it is not surprising to find that the oldest and most highly educated professions and busiensses have very strong collective control of their industry. It’s just when the working people do it that it gets opposed.
mawgxxxxvi 8

8 May 2008 at 10:05 am

IrishBill: “Last year the average salary increase for CEO’s of large companies was 25%. Here’s a tip: CEO’s generally are not union members.” Doesn’t that demonstrate my point ? You don’t get to be CEO of an organisation by letting other people take responsibility for your life or by joining a union.

What can unions offer you ? Maybe a pay increase at the rate of inflation or slightly above if you are a member of a particularly powerful one ? My concern about unions is that encourage people to hand over responsibility for their lives and facilitate “learned helplessness”.
mawgxxxxvi 9

8 May 2008 at 10:16 am

Steve: you make some goods points with your comments concerning professional societies. I am sure however that the members of these societies don’t accept limitation of their income by the societies and that they set their own fees based on what the market will allow. I’m also sure that the most highly paid medical practitioners are not on salary with the state but are in private practice even if they contract back services to the state.

IrishBill says: “limitation of their income” makes no sense. Collective agreements are minimum rate documents. All union members are free to negotiate individual terms and conditions above their collective and many do so. What employers can’t do is offer terms and conditions below the collective: it sets minimum standards. You have no idea of Employment Law, Maw and I suggest you do some research before you make further comment.
IrishBill 10

8 May 2008 at 10:17 am

“You don’t get to be CEO of an organisation by letting other people take responsibility for your life or by joining a union.”

Maw, unless your are part of a lucky sub-one-percent group you don’t get to be a CEO full-stop. Are you, for example, a CEO of a major New Zealand company? If you are not and also clearly not a union member I would like to ask you what’s holding you back?

AS for “learned helplessness” you obviously have no idea about how unions run these days. They are voluntary organisations run by their membership. That means union members decide on what they are going to ask for, union members sit at the negotiating table and union members vote on to accept the deal or to take industrial action. The only roles officials have is as expert advocates in negotiations and grievances.

If anything unions are the vehicle through which workers get together to take responsibility for their working lives.
Neilson 11

8 May 2008 at 10:20 am

Mawg

CEO’s are not in a position to join a union as they are the employer and sign collective agreements with the union and negotiate (or send a rep) the agreement and they could not be negotiating the contract or attending the meetings where discussions are held about what bottom lines the staff have in negotiating as this would give management an unfair advantage in the negotiations.

Also there is only one CEO in an organisation whose remuneration is negotiated with the board (their employer)

For these reasons they cannot join the union and so the comparison is invalid.

Regards
Alexander

Captcha
needy Incorporated – very apt
Hoolian 12

8 May 2008 at 10:28 am

I’ve heard terrible stories about the unions in Australia – like striking because the slices of ham (provided by the company) at lunch were too thin, or because their coke machines were removed.

The Aussies love Kiwi workers because we’re such hard-working, productive workers who get down to it and get the job done.

I’m totally for and in support of Worker’s rights, but I also know you can go overboard. We don’t want that here in NZ.
James Kearney 13

8 May 2008 at 10:32 am

I’ve heard terrible stories about the unions in Australia – like striking because the slices of ham (provided by the company) at lunch were too thin, or because their coke machines were removed.

I heard of an employer in Australia who fucks pigs. So what?
jafapete 14

8 May 2008 at 10:39 am

Well, it doesn’t look like Mawg’s about to let facts and logic get in the way of his/her prejudice. And Hoolian, has it never occurred to you that striking over slices of ham might just be due to numerous other causes of discontent including, quite often, poor management?

So… back to the real question. Are workers’ rights under threat come November?

I’ve concluded elsewhere that it does seem that National have cottoned on to how unpopular anti-worker laws are. Certainly, the fate of Howard and his Workchoices law provides a sobering reminder.

Since Key took over, the hysterical attacks on the ERA by Wayne Mapp have diminished, and noises have been made about no substantial changes being made to the current settings. We await the release of their policy with optimism, tempered with fear of backsliding after the election (should they win).

What do you think?

IrishBill says: The only policy National has explicitly confirmed in relation to work rights is the removal of all work rights for workers in the first 90 days of a new job. I think that’s a good indication of where they stand on IR.
IrishBill 15

8 May 2008 at 10:41 am

And I’ve heard terrible stories about employers in Australia like the behavior of Patrick Stevedoring in the late nineties:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/07/2209454.htm

Australia is a far more robust employment environment in which both sides are more aggressive than they are here.

Having said that many Australian based companies make a much higher profit to investment here because they import their aggressive behavior. This is curtailed to some extent by the current employment law (although I would argue we need strong protections) Under the liberalised employment environment the National party wants workers here would have to bow to this rapacious behaviour or start employing the much harder tactics of Australian unions. My advice to employers who back the reintroduction of ECA-type legislation is be careful what you wish for.
Billy 16

8 May 2008 at 10:44 am

But…but…but…IrishBill, I thought balking at giving money away to Australians was xenophobic.

http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1867
randal 17

8 May 2008 at 10:46 am

well the tories wont win this year or in the forseeable future so workers look to be reasonably protected
IrishBill 18

8 May 2008 at 10:49 am

Don’t be facetious Billy.
mawgxxxxvi 19

8 May 2008 at 10:57 am

Note to self: be wary of commenting on unions on a Labour party blog.

Gentleman: you have corrected some of the misunderstandings I had about modern unions. I was a member of (and briefly a delegate for) the NLGOU way back in the 80’s. During that period I witnessed many examples of union stupidity especially by the other big union on site the EWU. Times as you say, have changed.

IrishBill says:Happy to be of service but please note this is not a Labour party blog but a labour movement blog. There is a significant difference.
vto 20

8 May 2008 at 11:05 am

Anyone here concerned about employer/business-owner rights?

While I applaud those that stick up for the workers, as I said often it goes too far. And everything this govt has done has quite simply made it harder to employ people and own and operate a business. Well done. IrishBill’s statement (copied below) is a perfect example.

How about making it easier to employ people for a change.

IrishBill said: “The only policy National has explicitly confirmed in relation to work rights is the removal of all work rights for workers in the first 90 days of a new job.”

Ever think IrishBill that the reverse is actually the case i.e. is the re-instigation of employer rights?
Dim (was dime) 21

8 May 2008 at 11:08 am

yea bruv, its the evil business owners that dont pay their stuff enough money!

it makes me sick, these people put everything on the line, they start a business.. work their asses off.. have all the stress and worries… and yet they dont share their profits with the workers!

what scumbags!
mike 22

8 May 2008 at 11:18 am

“Union members get higher wages than their non-unionised peers”

Not in my work place IB
Non union workers are generally rewarded with performance bonuses – coincidently of course…

IrishBill says: Free-loading is a problem with the current law. Having said that the performance bonuses would be a lot lower if there was no union on site (and the pay increases would be higher if union density was 100%). I’m would say that the workers at your site earn more than workers doing the same job at a comparable but un-unionised site.
vto 23

8 May 2008 at 11:19 am

Agree with your sentiment Dime.

I have a business, which at its peak last year had over 100 people employed directly and roughly the same again indirectly in supply. My wife and I and our children put EVERYTHING on the line. The stress, work, etc etc etc etc is ridiculous. And then you get slammed left right and centre by especially Cullen and his ilk.

I tell you a truth. I have the ability to keep this business going and ramp it up even. Quite a contribution to the community I would have thought. But frankly it is simply not worth it. I am pulling back. This is a truth.

I will simply sit back, put my energy into other aspects of life, and wait until the settings are improved before getting economically (and hence employingly) active again.

Usually those that employ have had experience at employment. However, it seems those that are employed have no experience at employing. Why don’t you givt it a go and see what it’s like.

IrishBill says: I assume from our previous exchanges that you have a building business. Given the current change in that industry (such as decrease in consents) I’m guessing employment law is one of the less important factors in your business decisions. Or did you expand in the 1990’s?
jafapete 24

8 May 2008 at 11:24 am

Big Bruv & Dime,

Oh, so it’s the employers who do all the work? Silly me, here I was thinking that the workers might have had a hand.

Note that not all employers have set up their own businesses in the recent past. Think Doug Myers, one of your heroes. Inherited most of his pile, and, according to the Court of Appeal [Coleman v. Myers], pinched much of the rest of it off his rellies.

Note also that clever employers have discovered that treating their employees well, including paying them well, results in better organisational performance, including higher profits for the shareholders. Your distorted view of the world has more to do with Dicken’s England than a modern corporation.
James Kearney 25

8 May 2008 at 11:27 am

Anyone here concerned about employer/business-owner rights?

In a social democracy you have to strike a balance but don’t pretend New Zealand is some kind of workers’ paradise. We have some of the most neoliberal employment law in the developed world.

Your problem is your benchmark is the Pinochet-esque employment law ushered in by the Nats in the 1990s.
IrishBill 26

8 May 2008 at 11:27 am

“And everything this govt has done has quite simply made it harder to employ people and own and operate a business”

VTO, no what they have done is transfer some accountability onto the employer. In my opinion if employers can’t deal with what is a pretty liberal and simple employment law they should probably not be employers.

Dime, you’ve got nothing but empty rhetoric. New Zealand is the second highest rated country in the world for ease of doing business. Most workers depend on their jobs to feed and house themselves and their families. What you are suggesting is that the a large part of the risk businesses take (and which businesses gain the reward from) is transfered to their workers. For instance the stress and worry of whether tomorrow would mean having a job to go to would be transfered onto workers for the first 90 days of their employment if National got their way. Of course there would be no extra reward for these workers.

I figure you probably see that as fair but I think you’ll find you’re in the minority there.
mawgxxxxvi 27

8 May 2008 at 11:29 am

IrishBill: thanks for the clarification re the blog provenance. A friend in the hospitality business in Wellington told me that the Standard was run out of the 9th floor, clearly she was wrong. I’ll put her right. Thanks
Dim (was dime) 28

8 May 2008 at 11:42 am

i lived in aussie for 5 years and having a 90 day trial was just outstanding.

irishbill – ever employed someone? ever got it wrong? its grief!!! a 90 day trial is fair. if youre a good worker – you have nothing to worry about? why are we trying to protect slackers?

I have employed people and I have never had a bad experience. If you manage people properly it’s not a problem. Getting rid of people for non-performance under the ERA is also not a problem as long as you give them an opportunity to sharpen up.

as for empty rhetoric, its just what goes through my head when i turn on the radio and i hear some unionist demanding a slice of the profits because a company has had a good year.. i dont see it going the other way when companies have a bad year.

Oh but it does. A zero percent increase when times are tough for a business is certainly not unknown in business circles (thankfully, much less so now that there has been economic growth).

i guess it just comes down to envy… we should admire business owners that are doing well, it should inspire us to better ourselves.. not just put our hand out.

Envy? That’s the stupidest thing you’ve said yet and you’ve said some pretty stupid things. Most workers are happy to see their boss do well but like to see their share of the gains they help make. A sensible employer does share because they understand that this will increase their workers’ desire to help the business grow.

VTO – theres a lot to be said for keeping a business at a certain level.. work/life balance and all that.
Matthew Pilott 29

8 May 2008 at 11:50 am

dime – when you say it was outstanding, I assume you mean from an employer’s perspective?
vto 30

8 May 2008 at 11:54 am

IrishBill, it is a tough and brutal world that is for sure. One thing – you suggest that the 90 day trial period is transferring the accountability onto the worker implying that it should actually rest with the employer.

I don’t understand that reasoning (or even what the reasoning is). The risk is that the employee is a dud – why should that risk not lie with the employee?
Daveo 31

8 May 2008 at 11:54 am

i lived in aussie for 5 years and having a 90 day trial was just outstanding.

There is no 90 day trial in Australia. Howard’s workchoices law allowed employers with fewer than 100 staff to sack workers for no reason whatsoever regardless of how long they’ve been employed. There have been some bloody horror stories.
Dim (was dime) 32

8 May 2008 at 12:01 pm

actually from both sides.

i went through a 90 trial with my first ever job. no problems.

i became management and some people didnt survive after 90 days. so yeah it was good for my department.

i then changed jobs down the track and at the end of 90 days i had a meeting with management. i basically went in to say see ya later and they said “its not quite working out is it”.. to which i replied.. nope! so it was see ya later!

the 90 day trial is just that..a trial.. looking back, if i hadnt of gone through that 90 day trial.. i probably would have stuck around an extra few months, been unhappy.. was good to have a time frame.. from there i went on to achieve greatness somewhere else 🙂

its sad that people think a 90 day probation period or whatever you want to call it, will just be used for evil.

employers dont set out to employ bad staff!! trust me, no employer wants to let someone go after 3 months! its freakin grief employing people.

its not a good look either! not good for staff morale, not good for a companies customers to see staff turnover etc.

do you really have a problem with a company having some protection in this area?
IrishBill 33

8 May 2008 at 12:09 pm

The risk is that the employee is a dud – why should that risk not lie with the employee?

Vto, Because being in business means taking risks in exchange for rewards. Every time a business invests in any way it takes a risk. Unless you are going to argue that the risks of capital investments should be underwritten by the law then I don’t see how you can argue that investments in workers should be. If you decide to expand to a bigger workshop, don’t do due diligence on the building and then find it was a poor business decision then who’s fault is that?
big bruv 34

8 May 2008 at 12:10 pm

The Poms have a law (I assume it still stands) that allows you to fire an employee for any reason at all within the first 12 months, personally I think that just invites abuse, I favour the 90 day trial period.

Dime is right, employers should and must have some protection in this area.
vto 35

8 May 2008 at 12:20 pm

IrishBill, I gotta fly, but just quickly.. your argument is a huge tub into which most anything could be tossed.

The employee presents at the interview, holds him/herself out as being appropriate for the job and capable of performing it and is taken on on that basis. When it transpires shortly after that the employee is not in fact so capable etc then the problem should rightly lie with the employee, not the employer.

There is no comparison with items of capital expenditure. You can check a building, check a machine, etc and get it pretty accurate. In fact, following your comparison – if an item of machinery is purchased and does not perform as promised then you send it back (or similar).

I understand your argument but do not accept it as appropriate in employment circumstances.
IrishBill 36

8 May 2008 at 12:22 pm

Dime, many employers would take advantage of such a situation and most of them would be employers of vulnerable low-skilled workers such as fast-food workers and cleaners. Many of these employers already show disregard for their workers under the current legislation and would happily exploit their workers further given the chance.
Dim (was dime) 37

8 May 2008 at 12:28 pm

irish bill – wtf??

so if this law came in, maccas would start hiring people and firing them after 90 days.. for fun?? it makes no sense.

as for your risk/reward thing.. just weird.

VTO answered that well enough.. so no need for my 2 cents

IrishBill says: moron. If you run renewing 90 day contracts you effectively keep your workforce without rights. That means no grievance costs and no union (if they join a union you fire them) and that means massive labour savings.
vto 38

8 May 2008 at 12:29 pm

Without a 90 day trial, or similar, employing someone is an outright gamble.

IrishBill says: when I employ people I have taken the time to check their references and to background them. I also spend a decent time interviewing them and getting to know who I’m dealing with. I haven’t had a dud yet. It’s called good management and it means I don’t need a law that would harm tens of thousands of workers just because I’m not up to scratch. If you feel you do then you should consider sharpening up your HR practices.
mondograss 39

8 May 2008 at 12:35 pm

You can do a 90 day trial period in NZ, it’s quite legal and in fact I had one at my current job when I started last year. The thing is though, you still have to follow standard dismissal procedures if you decide not to continue. An employer cannot sack you at the end of the 90 days without having good reasons, or made a decent effort to work through whatever issues have caused the arrangement to not work out. They can’t however just sack you for no reason and with no comeback, which is what National are proposing. Mapps bill is a violation of natural justice, if you hired someone in good faith, you have an obligation to make it work. If it turns out they lied about the skills or quals then you can sack them on that basis, but if they’re just lacking in a bit of training, or the attitude is a bit poor etc you have to give them a chance to make good.
Dim (was dime) 40

8 May 2008 at 1:02 pm

haha there we go again with the name calling?

i’m not sure where i spoke renewing 90 day contracts? why would anyone do that? weird. it’s only for the first 90 days of employment.

good to see you’re the perfect manager 🙂 well done for never having a problem.

also good to see you make shit up to justify your position.

just so im clear irish – you’re a moderator here? or you have something to do with the site?

IrishBill says: take some time to read up and find out. You’re banned from commenting for a week for calling me a liar.
randal 41

8 May 2008 at 1:06 pm

gosh it is really fun reading natoinal propaganda from people who obvioulsy have never owned their own business at all but any business that is not prepared to stand by its workers is no business at all…just an outlet for neanderthals to stand over people who need money to feed their families.
Dim (was dime) 42

8 May 2008 at 1:15 pm

[deleted]

[lprent: Irish banned you for a week. See above]
Dim (was dime) 43

8 May 2008 at 1:26 pm

[deleted]

[lprent: I suggest you read the Policy page at the top of the screen, and yes Irish is a moderator (otherwise he can’t leave comments on comments).]
jafapete 44

8 May 2008 at 3:04 pm

Quite ironic that dime got “sacked” from the blog for a week, no? Albeit with cause. So he won’t have any problems with that.

Mondograss is quite correct, except that employees who lie about their quals, etc, to get a job can generally be sacked at any time when this is discovered, with no comeback, not just within 3 months.

Dime probably had a 3 month “trial” in Oz rather like that in NZ which Mondgrass describes, but didn’t realise that he counldn’t be sacked at the end of it. Given his grasp of these matters I’d be surprised if that weren’t the case.

The UK experience is telling. Especially when the labour market is loose, many employers of the low-paid routinely sack these workers just before the 12 month period ended, so avoiding any legal obligations that come with permanent employment.

Incidentally, many fast food operators get around the law by hiring on a casual basis, rostering week-by-week. So, if someone talks about joining the union, say, they simply don’t find themselves rostered to work.
Billy 45

8 May 2008 at 3:11 pm

“…employees who lie about their quals, etc, to get a job can generally be sacked at any time when this is discovered, with no comeback, not just within 3 months.”

No. You still have to follow the tiresome process and if you trip up on any step you’re in the cart. If you see an employee wandering around the factory floor chopping his colleagues ears off you have to sit him down and ask him for his side of the story, consider his explanation in an open-minded fashion, allow him to bring his support person blah blah blah. And even if you do it all right, he’ll file with the employment relations tribunal and you’ll have to spend $5k on a lawyer even if you win. So it will be cheaper to give him $3k to piss off, so he can start chopping off ears at the next place.
Redeye 46

8 May 2008 at 4:20 pm

I wanted to contribute here but I’m not exactly in agreement with Irish and it seems that unless you are, your out. So I wont.

[lprent: Disagreeing with people is fine – people do it here all of the time.
Abusing them isn’t. In this case directly saying he was a liar without a shred of evidence was definitely over the top. That was just trying to start a flamewar.

This is all in the Policy document at the top of the page. Read that.

The difference isn’t hard to figure out. Just think about what you’d take as a personal attack, compared to a disagreement about ideas.]
jafapete 47

8 May 2008 at 4:30 pm

Billy, Not a bad summary of the check-list, but flawed overall.

Presumably you mean Employment Relations Authority, the Tribunal having ceased operations eight years ago.

Firstly, the law is very clear about sacking people who have demonstrably lied about themselves, so that if someone was silly enough to take a case to the Authority, you would have a great case to claim costs. In mediation the mediator would be bound to make it clear to the complainant that they would take a bath in the ERA.

Secondly, one would hope that you would go through the “tiresome process” in the real world (as opposed to your imaginary world where workers chop each others’ ears off). what do you think that the effect is on the other workers if you just go around arbitrarily sacking people, as you are proposing?

And can’t you see that when you pay out $3,000 every time someone threatens you with the ERA you are simply making that an expectation? I advised an employer who had fallen into that trap to call the workers’ bluff (they had no case) and take it to court if necessary. Know what? No more spurious actions. Everyone got the message. You don’t have to be that clever to work this out, but obviously it pays to think a little more about it than you have.
Matthew Pilott 48

8 May 2008 at 4:37 pm

Redeye, please go for it – just best not to call someone a liar on their own blog. Irish explained what some do worry could become commonplace in certain industries with a 90-day bill.

Billy – for serious misconduct your contact can generally be terminated without notice. Ear-chopping, inappropriate pig relations and lying about qualifications all would constitute serious misconduct.

If the employee feels it is unjustified the can take a complaint to teh employment relations authority, but if they lied about their qualifications, they’d probaby be tossed out on their ear!

Check out some better examples:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10507227

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=189&objectid=10493521
Billy 49

8 May 2008 at 4:39 pm

“Firstly, the law is very clear about sacking people who have demonstrably lied about themselves, so that if someone was silly enough to take a case to the Authority, you would have a great case to claim costs. In mediation the mediator would be bound to make it clear to the complainant that they would take a bath in the ERA.”

An employee lying about him or herself gives an employer a good reason to sack the employee. But, if the employer fails to follow a fair process it is the employer who will be bathing.

“What do you think that the effect is on the other workers if you just go around arbitrarily sacking people, as you are proposing?”

Do you think sacking someone for removing body parts is arbitrary?

“And can’t you see that when you pay out $3,000 every time someone threatens you with the ERA you are simply making that an expectation?”

Yes. Do employers fall into the “trap”, as you call it? Every day.
Tane 50

8 May 2008 at 4:42 pm

But, if the employer fails to follow a fair process it is the employer who will be bath

People have a right to fair process, it’s that simple. Fair process is a part of the skillset a manager needs to do their job – if they can’t get their head around basic employment practices then they should reconsider their choice of career.
Billy 51

8 May 2008 at 4:44 pm

Tane, it is almost never big companies who get caught out. It is the plumber or the owner of the retail shop employing one or two people. They can’t afford an HR department, and they usually can’t afford to get it wrong. So lots of them try not to employ anyone.
big bruv 52

8 May 2008 at 4:54 pm

Dime

You should know the rules by now, all the Labour “luvvies” can abuse us all they like, we are not allowed the right of reply, if you do then you are banned.

You should not be surprised at this, Labour are all about double standards and breaking rules.
big bruv 53

8 May 2008 at 4:54 pm

More moderation?….you guys must be feeling the pressure.
Robinsod 54

8 May 2008 at 5:32 pm

They can’t afford an HR department, and they usually can’t afford to get it wrong. So lots of them try not to employ anyone.

Do they pay an accountant? Because tax law is more complicated than the ERA. But y’know Billy, if you want to reduce the rights of all New Zealand workers just so a few small employers can save a few hundred dollars on professional advice then I guess that’s your call.
Billy 55

8 May 2008 at 5:42 pm

There I was thinking you guys were against injustice…
Rattus Norvegus 56

8 May 2008 at 8:22 pm

[lprent: I suspect we have the reincarnation of Dim here again. But I’ll let it through to see if he has learnt a more civilized behaviour. It is fairly obvious he was never taught how to argue properly. Perhaps he can learn some lessons here.]

The exploitation of Dimebag was disgusting, he never even had a 90 day trial and here he is being persecuted, first with the crude insult, then by the Chinese style control of free speech and then by expulsion.

What type of ideal is this of free speech in a free country and in a free democracy ?

I hate fascists and all they stand for by controlling what is printed in order to pursue their own Utopian fallacy.

This is a fascist regime, for fascists, run by fascists.

Power to the people !! stand up and fight.

Dime, what a martyr, for speaking the truth.
Rattus Norvegus 57

8 May 2008 at 8:29 pm

And Matthew, if you take a complaint to the ERA they will chuck it out straight away, and force you to go to mediation. Your Lawyer takes it to the ERA afterwards.
Rattus Norvegus 58

8 May 2008 at 8:39 pm

In fact, some of the high paid professions are not just unionised they effectively have guilds, which is but a stroger form of collecive organsiation than a union – the Law Society, the Chartered Accountants, the Medical Council – they police their industry, prevent people they don’t want from practising in it and, as the is the point of any workers’ collective, ensure good rates and conditions for their members.

Huh ?
Those people are free to join a Union if they wish, and how do they prevent those who they do not want in ?

I’m lost, please explain this outrageous statement
Steve Pierson 59

8 May 2008 at 9:18 pm

Rattus. I’m talking about professional associations that are controlled by the professionals and have the legal power to prevent anyone not registered with them from practicing their profession – that’s basically a guild and modern versions include the Law Society and the Medical Council (you must be registered with them to practice). I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, I’m saying that’s an example of collective action in a profession to protect and improve the position of the members of the profession, it’s what a union does but stepped up a level. It’s not a surpirse that we find these stronger forms of collective action, backed by the power of legislation in the more highly paid professions.
leftie 60

8 May 2008 at 9:20 pm

I don’t get this common argument from employers referring to employment law and employing unsuitable employees: “But, if the employer fails to follow a fair process it is the employer who will be bathing.”

If I speed and get caught I get a speeding ticket. If I steal at work (commonly known as gross misconduct) and get caught it is grounds for instant dismissal. I know and accept the rules and if I break them I have to accept the consequences. Employers are right into calling it “compliance”, what’s so hard about complying with employment law? Follow the rules (comply), no problem the employee can be fairly (and rightly) dismissed. Break the rules, accept the consequences. Is this a genuine concern or simply a whinge? Perhaps it is a situation where the employer tries pushing the boundaries and gets called on it?
Matthew Pilott 61

8 May 2008 at 9:30 pm

Rattus, thanks for the clarification about the ERA. Doesn’t make much of a difference in the end…

As for dime’s ‘martyrdom’, ah, dime called someone a liar when they were completely wrong and perhaps a tad confused. Don’t let rationality disrupt your wee rant though.

Actually I retract that, you’re clearly taking the mickey there. If you ever fill out a personal, don’t forget the GSOH! Tee hee.
Matthew Pilott 62

8 May 2008 at 9:34 pm

Hey Bruv, I’m in moderation. This is now me not having a rant about it. Feel free to take note.
Rattus Norvegus 63

8 May 2008 at 9:36 pm

Rattus. I?m talking about professional associations that are controlled by the professionals and have the legal power to prevent anyone not registered with them from practicing their profession – that?s basically a guild and modern versions include the Law Society and the Medical Council (you must be registered with them to practice). I?m not saying that?s a bad thing, I?m saying that?s an example of collective action in a profession to protect and improve the position of the members of the profession, it?s what a union does but stepped up a level. It?s not a surpirse that we find these stronger forms of collective action, backed by the power of legislation in the more highly paid professions.

They have the power to exclude those who dont meet their professional standards. Such as a qualifications authority has he power to exclude those who do not pass exams. Its is not an authority to exclude those who are not idealogically one of us, but those who do not meet entry criteria, such as a degree, a professional competency exams, practical compentencies and a code of ethics, or else anyone could join.
Its about professional standards above all, for the public good.

Its not about prevention, its about meeting standards
Rattus Norvegus 64

8 May 2008 at 9:42 pm

[lprent: I suspect we have the reincarnation of Dim here again. But I’ll let it through to see if he has learnt a more civilized behaviour. It is fairly obvious he was never taught how to argue properly. Perhaps he can learn some lessons here.]

Huh, what do you mean by civilised behaviour ?

Is that agreeing with everything the downtrodden left and the salt of the earth workers say ?
Rattus Norvegus 65

8 May 2008 at 9:47 pm

Matthew

banning someone for speaking out does convey a sense of martyrdom, in the same way Lech Whelsa, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther, Joan of Arc and Leon Trotsky were made famous for speaking out, and then persecuted.

IrishBill says: you forgot David Irving. I would have thought he’d be at the top of your list.
Rattus Norvegus 66

8 May 2008 at 10:03 pm

And come-on Matthew
I’ve read posts by this Irish Billy Chap as follows

“Maw, do you ever make a statement that is based in fact?”

“To be honest you’re continual stream of mis-information is becoming a little dull.”

“You have no idea of Employment Law, Maw and I suggest you do some research before you make further comment.”

“Don’t be facetious Billy.”

“Dime, you’ve got nothing but empty rhetoric.”

“Envy? That’s the stupidest thing you’ve said yet and you’ve said some pretty stupid things.”

“IrishBill says: moron”

In fact “Moron” came after Dime accused you of “also good to see you make shit up to justify your position.”.

Not once did Dimebag call this Irish Bobby chap anything.

I suggest this IrishBully grow some balls and learns to take back what he throws at people.

God, I’m glad I’m Scottish

[lprent: Let me make this quite clear. Around here I make the rules – you are a guest. The rules are very loose because there are limits on how much effort I’m willing to take. The simpliest solution for me is to simply kick people off and make sure they stay off. However the moderators have been encouraging me to not be such a bastard sysop.

Dim got kicked off because he walked over an edge. But Dim was on route there already because its comments appeared to not add much to the discussion apart from trying to start flamewars. I’d already had reason to warn Dim earlier – something that was obviously not read. Saying things to deliberately inflame poinless schoolyard level discussion is not tolerated by me. I have to read it.

Guess what – I’m the ONLY judge of what constitutes unacceptable behaviour here. Live with it or leave. It isn’t a topic for discussion.

Oh and I had a look at the discussion on Pandasport… Remember this is a moderated site frequented by adults – even their schoolyard antics have more intelligence than dim’s.]
lprent 67

8 May 2008 at 11:56 pm

BB: please put down the drink before reading this. I feel for your abused keyboard.

update wp_comments
set comment_author=’Dim (was dime)’
where comment_author in (‘dime’, ‘Dime’)

See here

Roughly translated this means “do not piss off a sysop”.
r0b 68

8 May 2008 at 11:59 pm

Matthew: Hey Bruv, I’m in moderation. This is now me not having a rant about it. Feel free to take note.

I end up in moderation too occasionally, maybe I share an IP with someone misbehaving. It’s nothing to fret about, comments usually clear moderation pretty fast.
r0b 69

9 May 2008 at 12:00 am

Lynn, your second link above is null.
r0b 70

9 May 2008 at 12:02 am

Hmmm – and your first link leads to a page we ordinary users can’t see (“You are not allowed to edit comments on this post”).

[lprent: picked the link off the admin pages. Should be correct now]
lprent 71

9 May 2008 at 12:05 am

Nope – it is the spam merchants that we’re fighting continuously. They try slipping the messages into old posts. The latest round are a bit more subtle. A lot are from local IP’s, and they’ve finally decided to stop selling sex and moved on to dvd’s, movies, and other things.

I’ll have another look at it after I get some other code out of the way.
Felix 72

9 May 2008 at 1:07 am

Wow, pandasport is amazing. People who use porno as avatars high-fiving each other for typing inane things at the standard.

Dim’s Motley Crue sig is particularly revealing.
vto 73

9 May 2008 at 8:47 am

Gotta say I think the levels of tolerance before banning etc on this site seem pretty low. Maybe let things slide a bit more. But its your show, you make the rules..

2c
big bruv 74

9 May 2008 at 9:09 am

Comrade Iprent

Rattus is NOT Dime.

Rattus, you should know by now that Iprnet only allows comments that praise dear leader, not surprising when you consider who pays for this site.

[Tane: Lynn pays for the site. You’re running pretty close to a banning with your repeated smears bruv – but I’ll leave that to Lynn’s judgement since it is him you are slandering.]

[lprent: I’m aware of that. I tracked back in the IP’s and links after making that statement.]
Matthew Pilott 75

9 May 2008 at 9:24 am

R0b – I know – my point was that bruv has a cry every time he is in moderation, like many on the right. They assume that it is censorship, so I wanted to pint out that it happens to us filthy Commies as well.

Rattus, Dime called Irish a liar. There’s not much more to it than that. How you can put someone who can’t follow an argument, gets confused and blames it on someone else by questioning their integrity in the same class as Mandela et al – you’re simply talking out your ass. He was not banned for speaking out, anyone with a modicum of intelligence can do so without resorting to accusing someone else of lying when they’re wrong. I doubt you have the ability to see that though, determined as you are to compare dime with…oh, you got me again! Another bloody great joke! And here I was thinking you are being serious. I need to lighten up. Comparing Dime with King… classic. We need more righties with a real sense of humour here, it’s pretty much just Billy and Phil at the moment.
Billy 76

9 May 2008 at 9:44 am

“…it happens to us filthy Commies as well.”

You told me you were a social democrat. I always suspected that was code for “filthy commie”.
Matthew Pilott 77

9 May 2008 at 9:54 am

Rumbled. Drat!

Billy, please note not all commies are filthy, many adhere to perfectly acceptable standards of personal hygiene.

vto – interesting two cents. No doubt in part due to my replying to the comments of various people on this thread, but it can turn away from a decent discussion into something not really worth it in fairly short order. In fact it only takes one or two comments for this to happen.

It’s perfectly understandable that the authors of this blog don’t want this to happen to each and every thread, so I can see quite clearly where they draw the line. Not to be rude, but if you’re happy with some of the crass comments that ruin a thread, well, your standards might be a bit low. It’s not what I come here to read, nor many other people, I suspect.
Jason 78

9 May 2008 at 10:10 am

I thought Idi Amin was dead but judging by the comments implying “I will just make up the rules as I like”, maybe he isn’t.

I am a dairy farmer. Our work situation compells our staff to live on the farm and work alongside me for up to as many as 105 hours a week. In a situation like this, you are not just trying to employ someone to aid in running the farm, you also need to be able to maintain a cordial and hopefully jovial relationship. It is very hard to determine through an interview process weather your initial feelings will be correct. At any stage in my employees contract, they can up and leave, just giving a weeks notice and go to happier fields if thats what they wish. I to, would like 1 opportunity, after 90 days, to be able to do the same thing. The business is mine, the farm likewise, yet because of an ass of a law, I can be locked into a situation whereby I work greater hours then most alongside a non combatible person and live 100 metres away from said employee for a whole 12 months.

Give me the opportunity to have 1 chance to be able to make the same decision that my employee has the right to make at any stage of the contract.

Dime made a very good point, the great majority of employers dont want a high turnover of staff, it just doesnt make good business sence.
big bruv 79

9 May 2008 at 10:16 am

Tane

What repeated smears?…I merely said “not surprising when you consider who pays for this site”

Do you have something to hide Tane?
Tane 80

9 May 2008 at 10:41 am

You’re implying that Helen Clark or Labour pays for our site, as you have in the past. They don’t, Lynn does, and he’s made this very clear. If you want to keep on this line of attack then fine, but don’t expect to get away with it here.
big bruv 81

9 May 2008 at 10:43 am

[Bruv, don’t take me for a fool. One more outburst and you’re banned for a month. For now you’re in moderation.]
Matthew Pilott 82

9 May 2008 at 10:56 am

I think bruv wants to be ‘martyred’ like his mate dime.

Jason, the law is not an ass – it is designed to encourage working relationships, not ensure that people are friends with their boss. You’re saying you want to be able to fire someone, not because they can’t do their job properly, but because you don’t find them ‘compatible’. The law is actually designed to protect employees from that very attitude!

Dime was right with his point that most employers wouldn’t be likely to do that, but those that deal with younger and more vulnerable staff might – the real ass would be enacting a law that allows for the removal of all workplace rights from a specific sector of society.

As for your comparison with a genocidal dictator – you’re an ass. Read the bloody about page if you want the rules.
Jason 83

9 May 2008 at 11:22 am

I’m sorry Matthew, clearly you have the experience of working in a situation where you are working extremely long hours, often in stressful times with someone only then to go home and live a stones throw apart from each other.

Clearly you have expereince that tells you that a compatible working relationship is irrelevant.

I’m going to make an assumption that you have not worked in such an occupation and are therefore unqualified to pass judgement on the dynamics required to make such a working relationship successful.

Note, that I didnt even begin to use examples of where staff are not capable of doing the jobs they have said they are and rather then being able to move them on and finding staff with the required knowledge or ability it is then incumbant on me to have to train them. This is regardless of weather I am actually in a situation where I can offer training.
vto 84

9 May 2008 at 11:28 am

Mr Pilott I think Jason makes a very good point..

Namely that the employee can simply up and off at a moment’s notice leaving the employer and the business completely in the lurch. Yet the employer cannot do the same, or even something remotely similar. That stands out to those out there doing business and employing people as highly unfair.

The pendulum is way out to one side.

Jason’s point re ‘friends’ cf employees is a grey area due to the nature of farming. It is very real and cannot be dismissed as you have done.
big bruv 85

9 May 2008 at 11:31 am

If the hat fits…..

[lprent: bb: I can see from earlier comments that you want to really really want the maytr halo. Are you sure you’re not some kind of fundamentalist? I think that leaving you in moderation here will be interesting. Think of it as an experiment]
Redeye 86

9 May 2008 at 11:44 am

Jason also inadvertantly highlights yet another point. How many ‘potential’ employers don’t become employers, or don’t increase the staff, simply because of the hassle in employing. The often used example of the Physiotherapist struggling with an answer machine in place of a receptionist simply because he doesn’t have the power to try before he buys.

I’m a software developer and currently have the work to employ at least 3 other coders today, but wouldn’t now consider it through previous bad experiences in this regard.

That said; I have seen how some in the hospitality industry in particular treat their employees. Those employees did need some protection.
Matthew Pilott 87

9 May 2008 at 11:49 am

Jason, and vto, if you have a proposal that could give you what you’re after without making thousands of vulnerable workers suceptable to exploitation then I promise you I’m all ears.

The 90 day bill is not that solution.

It might work for you and a few others in your situation (doubtless there are many, many individual similar situations), but the negative implications far outweigh this. Would yor really advocate a law change that could remove all working conditions for thousands of employees across the country, for your own benefit?

How do you propose to change a law that allows you to fire someone because you feel you can’t work with them? How would that not then flow on to make every new employee vulnerable to the whims of their employers? If you make an exception for situations where you give acommodation to the worker, for example, fruit pickers may be without rights as many orchards have live-in workers.

I am not dismissing the problem out of hand, as you say, I’m dismissing the solution – there is a distinction there!

Jason, if your problem is that staff are not fully trained, you make a condition of their employment that they are qualified/experienced. If they are not, then they have lied to you and you have an avenue to cease their employment. Is that a possibility?
AncientGeek 88

9 May 2008 at 11:51 am

Jason: I worked for 6 months in a town supply in my youth. I’d agree with you that it is a rather unique working experience. Especially the thermos tea at 0430. I was working with the share milker as the farm was owned by a lawyer (it was the 70’s – he was after the tax credits).

For me, that was the 18 months that I worked in a lot of places to gain real-world experience, and to decide if going to uni was worth the effort.

I don’t know what it is like now. But then the wages were pretty bad, and the hirelings like me were quite young. I’d come from doing night shift in a factory to a fifth of the income + food and board. I couldn’t imagine wanting to do it as a job for very long, not unless I had some sort of ownership state.

I was having to learn everything at a considerable rate of knots, being a city boy. I was also having to do it while sleep deprived for the first month while my sleep cycles shifted.

I’d be interested in what the wages are like now?
Matthew Pilott 89

9 May 2008 at 11:53 am

Redeye – I agree with the problem you have raised (I mean I agree it is a problem). In the end it is a tough balance to strike.

To be entirely honest with you all, I see the ‘power’ (and please don’t take ‘power’ to mean anything as randal mentioned above) as residing with the employer, so I think the balance needs to be in favour of the employee – that is, after all, why I’m a leftie!
vto 90

9 May 2008 at 11:57 am

Mr Pilott, I gotta go but I still think a trial period would be a suitable solution.

I really struggle to understand the ‘labour movts’ problem with it, especially given the very real problems the lack of a trial period makes for those doing the employing.

And you simply have to believe it when employers say ‘the last thing we want is staff turnover’. It is the truth.
jafapete 91

9 May 2008 at 12:03 pm

Matthew Pilot: “You’re saying you want to be able to fire someone, not because they can’t do their job properly, but because you don’t find them â€˜compatible’. The law is actually designed to protect employees from that very attitude!”

Point of clarification: People can be justifiably sacked for incompatibility. One such case involved an Air Nelson pilot as it happens… no relation I assume.
vto 92

9 May 2008 at 12:04 pm

One more thing Mr Pilott, I used to work as an in-house solicitor for a large NZ company. It involved a great deal of employment law work and problem solving across the company’s hundreds of staff. My experience from that is that the power does not lie completely with the employer. In different areas it lies with one or the other.

In the area of dismissal it lies very heavily with the employee, and that is exactly what is causing potential employers to simply refuse to employ where they can, as Redeye says above. That is also why the issue of a trial period keeps rearing its head.
jafapete 93

9 May 2008 at 12:14 pm

Rattus: “And Matthew, if you take a complaint to the ERA they will chuck it out straight away, and force you to go to mediation. Your Lawyer takes it to the ERA afterwards.”

And this is one of the things about the ERA that works really well. Even the most vociferous employer lobbyists (like Peter Tritt of the EMA Northern) have awarded mediation high marks. You might have noticed, Rattus, that one of the expressed aims of the ERA was to reduce the role that lawyers play in the employment relations. It was the ECA that opened up this pandora’s box, and sadly, it seems difficult to get rid of lawyers once they become involved — like an infestation of cockroaches…

Anyway, the vast majority of cases that go to mediation are resolved quickly and at minimal cost under the present regime. That is why I pointed out that the hypothetical ear-chopping or lies at interview cases probably wouldn’t get to the Authority.

Let’s hope that National are clever enough (should they win) to retain the emphasis on mediation, and continue the search to get rid of lawyers.

Rattus again: “I hate fascists and all they stand for …”

Hmm, and you’re the one who wants the right to sack people without having to demonstrate any reason whatsoever… for, say, joining a union. Very democratic that!
Brett Dale 94

9 May 2008 at 12:18 pm

Dime is 100% correct in his views and should not be banned, but thats the left for you, they can name call, and they can insult someone’s house, they can call people sleazy, but boy you guys on the left are so thinskinned, if someone says something negative about someone on the left, you banned them.

If you start up a business, it should be your right to let an employee go, if things arent working out, its “YOUR BUSINESS AND YOUR MONEY”

It should have nothing to do with any Union.

Bring Back the DIME.
jafapete 95

9 May 2008 at 12:19 pm

“In the area of dismissal it lies very heavily with the employee, and that is exactly what is causing potential employers to simply refuse to employ where they can, as Redeye says above. That is also why the issue of a trial period keeps rearing its head.”

Gosh vto and Redeye, haven’t you noticed the completely unprecedented GROWTH in employment over this period when employers were supposed to be resoultely refusing to employ more staff because they have to justify ithemselves when they want to sack them? Even the drop in employment reported yesterday is disproportionately amongst those who are not in permanent employment (and hence mostly women), it is said.

Sort of gives the lie to your rhetoric doesn’t it?
jafapete 96

9 May 2008 at 12:23 pm

Brett: “If you start up a business, it should be your right to let an employee go, if things arent working out, its “YOUR BUSINESS AND YOUR MONEY’

Yep, that’s called “redundancy”. Dismissal for redundancy is perfectly justified. See your lawyer for more details.
Brett Dale 97

9 May 2008 at 12:26 pm

lprent

This board is suppose to represent free speech, but it seems anyone who has a view that is not in line with Aunty Helen, gets banned.

The treatement of the poster Rattus, Dime and Big Bruv and saying they are the same person is disgusting, why not do a IP check, and then you will see they are different people.

Can anyone on the left tell me why you guys hate free speech??

[lprent: I did, as I’ve commented earlier. I did track them back to a site where they were gloating that they got banned – so I guess they got what they came for.

This is a moderated site – not a free speech site. Free speech sites are commonly full of spam and continuous flamewars, try usenet some time. Read Bruce Simpsons take on it Past its Use(net)-by date?.

The moderation isn’t for ideas – it is for behaviour. If people chose to act in a manner that doesn’t conform within the guidelines of the Policy page, then they will get moderated or banned. It doesn’t sound like you’ve read it]
Brett Dale 98

9 May 2008 at 12:28 pm

I’m not talking redundancy, im talking about firing dumb asses who don’t aren’t up to the job.
vto 99

9 May 2008 at 12:31 pm

jafapete, I said “causing potential employers to simply refuse to employ where they can,”. Note, “where they can”. What you raise introduces a whole pile of other issues into the debate to do with economic growth etc. So no your post does not give ‘lie to the rhetoric’ as you put it.
Brett Dale 100

9 May 2008 at 12:35 pm

Your going to banned Big Bruv for a month????

Your banning the best posters, who start the best debates.

This site reminds me of those nutters who supported Tami Iti when he got arrested on terrorism charges.

They were on the news chanting for people to stand up.

A man on the sidewalk, pointed out that the Police are just doing their job and one of the protesters screamed at the man “Shut up Free Speech”

To tell someone to Shut up and your reason for this is Free Speech, defines the left for me, you guys are 100% for free speech as long as the speech is what you believe in.

[lprent: see my note on your previous comment above]
jafapete 101

9 May 2008 at 12:42 pm

Brett, Thanks for the clarification. See my note above about the messages that you send the remaining staff if you sack people (or engage in other disciplinary action such as giving a warning) arbitrarily.

Unfair and inequitable treatment of any employees has a negative effect on the morale of all employees. So treating employees fairly and equitably pays off and clever employers treat the employees fairly and equitably.

If you were to look closely at the legal requirements for cause in dismissal, you would find that they are no more than a check-list for how to treat employees fairly and reasonably.

After all, employees have a common law duty to act in good faith towards their employers.

Note also that it works both ways, and *not* disciplining a slacker also has a deleterious effect on morale.
Matthew Pilott 102

9 May 2008 at 12:45 pm

jafapete – no such relation! (note the two ‘t’ surname…)

Brett, dime had some fine points. They didn’t get him banned. Don’t be disingenuous and entirely ignore the reason he was banned, you just look like an idiot! Why would you make such a pointless statement, when we know you’re not? “free speech” baselessly calling someone a liar – i’m not sure what your idea of it is Brett, but it’s a pretty peculiar interpretation.

WRT your other point, what kind of society would we live in if people could be fired at whim? How could society function if no one had any jobn security? You obviously have some strong convictions, but I can’t see much evidence you have tested them.

Most companies don’t want high turnover, true vto. Go back (when you have a few spare minutes) and read what Irishbill actually said to dime – he explains the problem of the 90 day bill, that none of you seem willing or able to see. Use your imagination – because no doubt some unscrupulous employers would, and some poor folk would potentially suffer immensely as a result.

vto – there are always excpetions, laws aren’t made for exceptions though.
jafapete 103

9 May 2008 at 12:46 pm

vto: May 9, 2008 at 12:31 pm: “jafapete, I said “causing potential employers to simply refuse to employ where they can,’. Note, “where they can’. What you raise introduces a whole pile of other issues into the debate to do with economic growth etc. So no your post does not give â€˜lie to the rhetoric’ as you put it.”

Gosh, just as well we had the current legal regime over the past decade then, otherwise we’d have been suffering much worse skill shortages than we have! Just think. We’d have had no unemployment at all! After all, those employers holding off would have mopped up the last 3.6% in a flash.

Sorry, vto, your argument doesn’t hold up.
Matthew Pilott 104

9 May 2008 at 12:53 pm

Brett, I’m going to clarify. Not becuse you need me to, because I believe you are pretending you don’t get it, or ignoring the obvious, to make a pathetic point about your interpretation of ‘the left’.

Dime got confused about the 90 day bill. He didn’t understand what Irishbill was saying and said that irish was “making s… up”. Dime was completely wrong, and got his just desserts.

Bruv implied the blog is funded by Labour. This annoyed our friendly sysop, who foots the bill. That’s why he is on moderation.

These two points weren’t hard to follow. If there was a 10 year old handy, I would like to take them through these points to illustrate how easy they are to understand, and that you are probably fully aware of what has gone on, and are simply being obnoxious when you fling around accusations of the left hating free speech.

(on a different note, I had a great moment of juvenile laughter when i saw my cap was “ball deposits”)
vto 105

9 May 2008 at 1:01 pm

jafapete, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

Unless I am missing something I do not see anything in either of your posts that goes anywhere near my points re a trial period. What you have done is spout some stats over changes in employment levels as if they illustrate something about the particular issue.

Try this from one of my posts above..

“I really struggle to understand the â€˜labour movts’ problem with (a trial period), especially given the very real problems the lack of a trial period makes for those doing the employing.”
jafapete 106

9 May 2008 at 1:11 pm

vto: “jafapete, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.”

That’s pun-ishing, I think.

vto: “I really struggle to understand the â€˜labour movts’ problem with (a trial period), especially given the very real problems the lack of a trial period makes for those doing the employing.’

You can look at my earlier post about the British experience, of workers (usually the low paid and most vulnerable workers) being sacked just before the 12 months comes up if you want an insight into the labour movement’s problems with the idea.

You might also look at the Aussie experience of “at will employment” when the so-called workchoices legislation took effect, alluded to by another commenter above. Some employers got carried away and the employer lobby groups and then government quickly had to get employers to lay off laying off until after the election. But by then the damage had been done.

Clever employers wouldn’t do anything much different than the law requires them to anyway, but it’s the others we’re worried about. And they tend to employ the most vulnerable workers.

Got it now?
big bruv 107

9 May 2008 at 1:15 pm

What many from the left hate to admit is that Labour relations in NZ are generally pretty good, 99% of workers are happy with their conditions and most do not see the need to belong to a union.

I worked in the UK for six years, at first I was shocked at the level of naked hostility between workers and management, as time went on I understood why this is the case, the workers expect the worst from Management and the Management expect the worst from the workers and their union, neither side ever seemed to disappoint each other.
vto 108

9 May 2008 at 1:25 pm

No.

Those two examples seem quite different from a short trial period.

In answer to my question you have done what most do – find some extreme examples to bolster ‘their side’ of the argument.

What you are saying is that if there is a trial period employers will simply fire people before the end of the trial period and take advantage of it. That is simply not true (except for exceptionals). What is the advantage in having a high staff turnover? Please tell me.

Look, this issue will not die because as things currently stand it is unbalanced in the employees favour. It will keep coming back and back until it finds an equilibrium. At the moment there is no equilibrium.
Matthew Pilott 109

9 May 2008 at 1:27 pm

Dearest bruv, in fact nothing thrills us more, knowing that workplace laws mean workers get a good deal (with the exception of overall pay rates, which has become an issue as of late), and we sleep the sleep of the contented knowing that Unions’ and Workers’ struggles over the decades have helped making NZ a great place to live and work in. Thanks for pointing that out though, and here I was thinking it’s all doom & gloom from you.
vto 110

9 May 2008 at 1:29 pm

Jafapete, just read your last post again. What you also say is that you are worried about the worst most nasty employers.

Well.. laws in an area like this should never be designed around the worst 1 or 2%. And that is a mistake that the left often make – generate laws around the minor minority which adversely affects the generally good majority. That is a schoolteacher trait which keeps the whole class behind because of the one kid that threw a dart. Hated that approach when I was a kid and hate it now. Cannot see how we would ever agree if that is your approach. Perhaps that is why this particular issue is not resolved yet.
Brett Dale 111

9 May 2008 at 1:31 pm

Matthew Pilott:

The banning of people isn’t consistent though.

A lot worse has been said, by those on the left, and you don’t need a ten year old to figure that out.

[lprent: Read the policy page at the top of the screen. Then you might know what you’re talking about. The key point is disruption and it is a judgement call. For instance it was apparent that Dim’s only purpose here was to disrupt. He spoke without bothering to think about anyones responses, and always went for remarks designed to inflame. In short he was a fire starter.

His comment to irish would have just been rubbished without that previous pattern of behaviour. He ignored warnings about his behaviour. Around here, the ‘left’ and ‘centrists’ usually heed behaviour warnings, so they have less bans and moderation.

This is getting tiresome. If you want to keep whinging – please do it elsewhere.]
Matthew Pilott 112

9 May 2008 at 1:32 pm

vto – do what I said and read irish’s comment, are you deliberately avoiding reading something contrary?

If you are an employer with traditionally high turnover of low-wage vulnerable workers, you hire them on endless ‘trials’ thereby voiding all of their legal workplace rights indefinitely. This solution is worse than the problem!

As I said above, the problem may be real and could do with addressing but this solution is worse than the problem. Your instances are also exceptions, as i also said, and not the rule. law generally has to cater to the rule, not exceptions. We wouldn’t have record unemployment if it was too hard to hire someone, and a majority of employers weren’t bothering!
jafapete 113

9 May 2008 at 1:34 pm

BB: “What many from the left hate to admit is that Labour relations in NZ are generally pretty good, 99% of workers are happy with their conditions and most do not see the need to belong to a union.”

I guess you qualified that so that a leftie like me couldn’t argue that yes, we do acknowledge that employment relations in NZ are generally pretty good, because many of us, in fact, do. Surveys show that NZ workers are generally more satisfied with their influence at work, etc, than are workers in the anglo-american world, with the Brits the least satisfied (as you say).

And whilst you may be strictly correct in saying that “most do not see the need to join a union”, I do hope you have not overlooked my comment yesterday at 9.31am:

Fact: research also shows that in NZ, as elsewhere, a substantial number of those in non-union workplaces say that they would like to join if they could. Around 30%. Most of the rest are indifferent, as one might expect given that (the research shows) these people tend to know little about unions. Very few think that they would be worse off with a workpace union.
Redeye 114

9 May 2008 at 1:35 pm

“AucklandPete: Sort of gives the lie to your rhetoric doesn?t it?”

I take offence at my post being called rhetoric and a lie. They are real examples given.

Which raises another point. If you are really trying induce debate how come Irish is allowed to call other posters liars but no-one is allowed to respond in kind?

[lprent: I don’t consider that to be a personal attack. If you want to prove something isn’t rhetoric, then link to something to backup your point. Whoever it was, was dissing your argument – not you.]
Matthew Pilott 115

9 May 2008 at 1:35 pm

Brett Dale, fine me an example where someone from the left said an author here was lying. Find me an example where someone from the left accused the blog of being run or funded by the Labour Party. Find me and equivalent example if you can.

Don’t you get it? It’s not saying nasty or controversial things that gets you pinged, it’s flaming and such accusations as I mentioned.
Matthew Pilott 116

9 May 2008 at 1:44 pm

vto – was just thinking about your last comment. It seems I’m at a contradiction, in that I state laws shouldn’t be made for exceptions, yet the 90 day bill isn’t alright because of the exceptions.

Bit of a conundrum, but I still stand by my views, that such a law shouldn’t be enacted if the flaws and loopholes are obvious and readily exploitable. This isn’t the case with current law – on one ‘exploits’ it, even though I readily conceed it can make things difficult in certain situations.
jafapete 117

9 May 2008 at 1:44 pm

vto,
I think we both agree that in the employment law area there needs to be some stability around an equilibrium that everybody can live with (even if they are not thrilled with every detail).

I think that we are getting closer to this point. The Nats have sworn off returning to the ECA; and the ERA, you might have noticed, is a long way from the old arbitral system that prevailed before 1991. (See the pingback link above for my views on the ERA.)

One thing that we are really arguing about is the extent of the problem of arbitrary management. You say 1-2%. Hell, the Uiversity of Auckland has been featuring in the news recently for arbitrary sackings, and there’s more I’d like to say… So I think that’s it’s a lot more than 1-2%.

Bottem line. I’d be all for a multi-party conference to see whether there is some common equlilibrium that we could all agree to. Crazy? It’s called tri-partism and it’s how they do things in Europe, for example.
vto 118

9 May 2008 at 1:44 pm

I did read Irish’s comment. Was pretty obvious, but didn;t go to the nub of the issue. But ok then, there are two problems and surely they can both be accomoodated..

Namely, problem for employer is lack of trial period.

Problem for employee is employer using endless trials to void worker rights.

I, and surely you people, can see both of the problems. I don’t deny the problem you describe.

How can the two problems be accommodated? Not quite sure, but both have to be addressed… anyone with a big brain out there? Different trial periods for different sectors perhaps?
jafapete 119

9 May 2008 at 1:51 pm

Redeye: “AucklandPete: Sort of gives the lie to your rhetoric doesn?t it?’ I take offence at my post being called rhetoric and a lie. They are real examples given.

Note the qualification “sort of”. And don’t get so worked up about an expression that doesn’t mean *precisely* what you contrue it to.

Also note that I have been called a lying filthy commie, etc, etc, numerous times on right-wing blogs, and hardly ever complained, if at all. (Can’t remember complaining, but may have.)
big bruv 120

9 May 2008 at 1:52 pm

Matthew

Once again you stretch the truth, workplace relations have improved out of sight since the end of compulsory unionism and the implementation of the employment contracts act.

Giving individual employees the right to negotiate their own contract is always going to result in happier workplace relations, those who are worth more receive it, what a pity our teachers are not allowed to do the same thing.
jafapete 121

9 May 2008 at 1:53 pm

vto: “How can the two problems be accommodated? Not quite sure, but both have to be addressed anyone with a big brain out there? Different trial periods for different sectors perhaps?”

Funnily enough, I was going to suggest soemthing along those lines. But wouldn’t claim to be a big brain.

Shame we’re not responsible for respective party policy in this area…
Matthew Pilott 122

9 May 2008 at 1:54 pm

vto:
Ensure a company could only give an employee one single trial, say within a five year period.

Specifiy a maximum number of trials to fill a role/vacancy.

Have a registration period with the trial so employers abusing or excessively using the system are noted.

Ensure specific/relevant/appropriate reasons are given for a ‘failed’ trial.

Allow for mediation in case of a failed trial.

All of these are totally against the essence of the bill National supported though, and I doubt they would get support from either side. Also note I don’t necessarily support these ideas – just thought I’d throw a few out there.
higherstandard 123

9 May 2008 at 1:56 pm

vto

How about a penalty for the employer of 4 weeks pay (payable to the employee being removed) if they sack someone after the trial period. Would be enough to put most employers off rorting the system (which very few would) conversely if the employee was cak they would also probably be happy to pay this cost to get rid off them.
Matthew Pilott 124

9 May 2008 at 1:57 pm

Note not meant to be ‘registration period’ but a ‘register system’.

Redeye, FTR I don’t think Irish called anyone a liar. he pinged someone for doing so to him…
higherstandard 125

9 May 2008 at 1:59 pm

MP

I like your first 4 points – very nice.

Have been to mediation for some staff we had to remove and agreed it is useful but very dependent on the mediator where there are very different standards in skill.
Matthew Pilott 126

9 May 2008 at 2:01 pm

bruv – Truth streching? Moi? Codswallop!

Interesting claims bruv, have you got anything to shop that the introduction of the ECA led to improved workplace relations? Would be interested in reading a study or survey that showed this.
jafapete 127

9 May 2008 at 2:04 pm

Oh, and Redeye et al., here’s an example of the sort of ordure frequently directed at lefties on the best known right-wing blog in NZ, and about which we don’t whinge. Just posted, you can see the steam rising…

I’m blowing your cover Jafaboy. The days of communists like you and the shameless bludger Phil Whoar being seen as centre left are dying, and I ask everybody out there who reads my posts to think about the need to call a commie a commie, and how it hurts them politically and personally when you do that. Don’t be intimidated by their scorn and attempts at ridicule. Truth will always (eventually) prevail, and to the commies its like a wooden stake thru the heart of a vampire. Never let them win. Remember folks- Truth is all it takes.
vto 128

9 May 2008 at 2:05 pm

ah excellent. Something along those lines…

What are we going to resolve next then?

I know.. when to knock off for the day and quench the thirst, because I aint got much done today carrying on here that’s for sure. And its almost too late to start.
Brett Dale 129

9 May 2008 at 2:06 pm

Mathew Pilott you said:

If you are an employer with traditionally high turnover of low-wage vulnerable workers, you hire them on endless â€˜trials’ thereby voiding all of their legal workplace rights indefinitely. This solution is worse than the problem!

the law will be for one trial, when a person is first hired. the will be no option for endless trials.

Who do you fly for? dimes brother is ex air nelson and currently air New zealand.
jafapete 130

9 May 2008 at 2:08 pm

vto, agreed. Galbraiths at 5pm anyone?
Matthew Pilott 131

9 May 2008 at 2:09 pm

HS, thanks, I can only imagine that is true with the mediator.

There’s always the ‘stick’ approach, but I don’t like it. Have a fee – or maybe a bond is a better term – for a trial (amount of which is dependant on the size of the organisation) that is returned if the trial is successful.

This would encourage employers to only use a trial when necessary, and would mean a decision to employ or not would have to be carefully weighted, but it is unfair in that it penalises employers for getting a dud. Can’t think of a workaround off the top of my head.

Not sure where the bond money would go either – clearly not to the worker, or it would encourage people to fail!
big bruv 132

9 May 2008 at 2:12 pm

Jafa

“vto, agreed. Galbraiths at 5pm anyone?”

Only if you promise that Robinsod will be there
higherstandard 133

9 May 2008 at 2:14 pm

MP

Agreed.

There’s a solution in there somewhere – although I’d like to believe that the majority of employers and employees won’t/don’t have these issues to face.
Matthew Pilott 134

9 May 2008 at 2:14 pm

Brett – wasn’t aware that was in the law – I didn’t think there was a mechanism to prevent it. I.e. you have one trial and it ‘fails’, so you get the same person back for another one. Exploitation of the vulnerable does occur…

I’m no pilot – I almost crashed a place once actually (it was on the ground).

vto – how about whether we keep public control over certain assets…but maybe save it for another day…
Billy 135

9 May 2008 at 2:18 pm

I think Brett’s right, Matthew Pilott. You could not employ the same worker on more thatn one trial.

The potential for abuse is that an employer could employ a series of employees on such trials. But I am just not sure why you’d do that if the employee worked out.
Matthew Pilott 136

9 May 2008 at 2:24 pm

Billy – if it’s for an unskilled job (where it would be hard for it to not work out) you could save a lot in terms of workplace rights – paid leave and so on, that don’t apply in a trial. There is potantial for anti-union and bad-faith activity as well that can’t be discounted. The effects of these need to be fully investigated before going in with the law.
jafapete 137

9 May 2008 at 2:26 pm

Billy, In the UK employers have been known to re-employ the people that they terminate just before the 12 months are up, after a short break. As noted above, the primary reason for doing this is to avoid legal obligations.

They tend to do this because they are running businesses based on price competition, employing low paid, low skill workers whose cooperation is not needed beyond a minimal level of compliance, and because they (the employers) are callous bastards. Think cleaning contractors for a concrete example.

Implicit in what vto suggested earlier is the fact that the problems tend to be concentrated in certain areas. Mass services is the primary area, but there are others such as freight forwarding and universities with [self-censored].
Jason 138

9 May 2008 at 2:42 pm

Getting back to the topic, a trial period is exactly what is needed in at least my profession, farming.

The people against this can not actually put forward any evidence to back up claims that this bill would be abused and that the net effect would be drastically poor on employees.

I am now not employing because of this. Within a 10km radius of me I know of at least 3 other farms who are also not employing as it is not worth the risk to have to spend a whole year with someone who may not prove sutible.

Give us a trial and there would be at least 4 people employed on June 1. As it is, we just arent employing, we will do the extra work ourselves.
Redeye 139

9 May 2008 at 2:50 pm

Mathew can I refer you back to the 4th post of this thread where the Irish bloke says;

“Maw, do you ever make a statement that is based in fact?” If that’s not calling him a liar then you ought to open both eyes.

Never the less, I find it amusing to now be lumped in with the right because I disgagree on this issue. Most other sites I post on lump me in with the lefties.

Politics is not Rugby. You are allowed to look at the issues individually and see the rights and WRONGS of both sides without being some sort of traitor.
big bruv 140

9 May 2008 at 2:53 pm

Billy,

Jafa is right, I worked for a company in the UK that was well known for hiring sales staff for the summer months and giving them the flick as winter set in (I refused to comply with this instruction)

It is simplistic and quite simply wrong to lay the blame for this mentality entirely at the feet of the employers, as I said both sides do not often disappoint each other.

Most of the animosity between workers and management in the UK is the result of union agitation, the staff are brainwashed into believing that all managers are callous bastards and the management are of the opinion that all workers are unionist stirrers.

I well remember telling the owner of the company that I worked for that I was going to shout a few beers and fire up the BBQ every Friday for the staff, the first question he asked me was “how much that was going to cost” the second was “why would you do that?”
Anyway, for the first month I sat there on my own every Friday night, it took about seven months until we had a total buy in from the staff and they began to realise that I was not out to screw them, they also found out that they had a boss that genuinely cared about them.

The end result was that productivity improved out of sight and workplace relations at our branch were the best in the company, we did not lay anybody off come winter and the practice of drinks and a BBQ on Friday still continues to this day.

In many ways that is what happened in NZ with the end of compulsory unionism, workers and staff found out that they were not each others natural enemy and by working together they could both achieve their goals, as one of the chaps who worked with me in the UK said one day he found it much more fun coming to work when he knew that the place was no longer a hot bed of animosity.
Matthew Pilott 141

9 May 2008 at 2:53 pm

Jason, there are a fair few examples on this thread as to how the law could be abused, and jafapete gave a definite example just above.

As I said previously, you’re happy to see a law that could easily lead to exploitation of vulnerable workers enacted for your own benefit? And all this to help you with work that you actually can do yourself? And you are not able to have fixed term contacts (why not make it a three month contract, and then offer them a permanent job if you get along with them??) or any other method of employment at all, given that you’re absorbing the work of four people?
Billy 142

9 May 2008 at 2:56 pm

Matthew, you can’t have a fixed term contract and use it as a trial. The law doesn’t allow you to.
lprent 143

9 May 2008 at 2:57 pm

Jason: “Getting back to the topic”

Topics tend to veer and weave a lot around here. You get used to it eventually. Especially, when they get as many comments as this post has. I should start thinking about a threading system at the client side.

Looking at the comment streams, there does actually appear to almost be an agreement about ideas on this topic emerging. It’d make a first…
Matthew Pilott 144

9 May 2008 at 3:00 pm

redeye – he looks to have been talking about opinion, as opposed to fact. It’s a far cry from accusing someone of making things up to justify a position.

I haven’t ‘lumped you in with the right’, and didn’t think anyone else had either but I may have missed something.

“You are allowed to look at the issues individually and see the rights and WRONGS of both sides without being some sort of traitor”

As you may notice, much of the latter part of this thread has been doing exactly that.
jafapete 145

9 May 2008 at 3:09 pm

Redeye: “Maw, do you ever make a statement that is based in fact?’ If that’s not calling him a liar then you ought to open both eyes.

Based on speculation? Based on sincerely held but misguided prejudice?

I think I know who needs to open his/her eyes, and at least one of them is red.
Jason 146

9 May 2008 at 3:12 pm

I’m not allowed to offer a fixed term contract, tell the employee to leave then re-employ someone new to do the same job. That is illegial.

As for the comment about being able to do the job myself, its not possible, there are trade-offs. The farm doesnt run as smoothly as it should, most days I will barely see my children, come spring I will do about 12-14 weeks nonstop, working on average 13 hours per day. That has an effect on my health and the general happiness of my family.

As for the comment regarding vunerable workers needing protection. Well, I have worked bloody hard for a very long time, took on the risk of starting my own business, put my balls on the line with a big mortgage, it would be nice if there was a law that could give me some scope to be sure I can employ the best people for the job.

Certainly, I have earned that right.

However, we, like many other farmers, have decided we are better off to do this then to put up with the risk of employing someone who is not sutible and then having to be stuck with them for the entire contract, then having to try and find someone else to fill a new job role as we were not able to finish a fixed term contract and employ someone new.

Go and ask a real estate agent why most dairy farmers end up selling thier farms. Staffing issues.
jafapete 147

9 May 2008 at 3:24 pm

BB, I thought you were doing really well until you got to the bit about the ECA. Sorry to be so didactic, but…

1. Unions had a very limited presence in most NZ workplaces prior to the ECA, because that was the nature of the old system (i.e., centralised, bureaucratic). In particular, they had very little presence in smaller workplaces, and that is where deunionisation was greatest after the introduction of the ECA.

2. The ECA was enabling legislation; it did nothing positive to improve workplace relations. Ypour argument is based on a belief that union membership was a barrier to better workplace relations.

3. However, almost all of the drop in union membership over the first 18 months of the ECA was in the mass private sector services, which, you may have noticed from the discussion above, is where the problems have been, continue to be, and probably always will be. Think little shops, restaurants, cafes, service stations, cleaning contractors, rest homes…

4. There is no evidence that workplace relations improved in these mass services workplaces. In fact, we do know that the workers in these workplaces tend to be the ones who would like to join a union but can’t. This suggests that where unionism declined fastest, and to the greatest extent, bad workplace relations persist. There goes your argument!

You need a more nuanced argument, distinguishing between the types of employemnt relations that pertain in different industries, for example. Also, you need to recognise that the unions of today bear little resemblance in most cases to those of twenty years ago.

Now, I don’t want ever again to read about the wonderful ECA promoting good workplace relations.
Matthew Pilott 148

9 May 2008 at 3:26 pm

Billy, Jason – I understood that people did this – hire people on fixed term contracts, but if they like the employee they choose to hire them on a permanent basis, or at least substantially extend their contract. If not, they try with another worker, on a fixed-term basis. I might be wrong about this or confusing it with the use of Temp workers though.

Jason – are workers that bad in the farming sector? It sounds as if there is such a slim chance of getting a decent worker you don’t bother.

At the end of the day, you’re still advocating a law that will have far wider consequences than in the agricultural sector, and seem to be dismissing this out of hand. While it may be a good thing in your area, it won’t just apply to farming.
mondograss 149

9 May 2008 at 3:31 pm

I think it needs to be observed that it’s still a contract based system, therefore what you put in the contract, as long as it’s not completely arbitrary, is enforceable. The farmer guy who complained about staff leaving with 1 weeks notice, could change the contract to have 4 weeks notice. Other skill specific stuff such as ability to build a fence to blah specification, or having a professional demeanour can also be inserted. You just have to make sure that you go through the contract carefully with the prospective employee at the hiring stage.

Then of course you can still have a 90 day trial and if they’ve not met the conditions of the contract and it can be reasonably said that they’re not able to, the relationship can be terminated. But BOTH sides have to make an effort to resolve any issues that come up and good, fair process must still be followed.

Not much you can do if you simply don’t like the person, but heck I’ve hated bosses plenty in the past, been pretty sure they felt the same way about me, and still been able to work with them. Of course I didn’t have to live with them though.
Billy 150

9 May 2008 at 3:36 pm

Matthew Pilott, you used to be able to do it under the ECA, but the ERA contains specific provisions to stop you doing this. You have to have a genuine reason for the fixed term (and, I want to see if you are a good employee doesn’t count) and, once it has expired, you still have to go through the process as if you were sacking them. Very deliberately, this means that there is no benefit to the employer in having the fixed term at all. If you could, no-one would be asking for the 90 day trial thing.
Matthew Pilott 151

9 May 2008 at 3:41 pm

Billy – maybe I’m thinking of a situation involving temps then – because I’m sure this does happen, but having a temping agency in the middle may muddy the waters enough to allow for some form of this to happen. No use in this case, of course.
jafapete 152

9 May 2008 at 3:44 pm

Billy, Yeah, but these provisions are more honoured in the breach…

Not that I am condoning this behaviour, mind.
mondograss 153

9 May 2008 at 3:46 pm

Could use a labour hire company I guess, might be some out there that do agricultural workers and would be amenable to having someone hired permanently off their books. IT contracting can work like that, you hire a contractor through an agency, if they’re good you offer them a permanent role, and a portion of their salary goes to the agency for a fixed period. If they’re no good, you send them back to the agency and ask for someone else.
big bruv 154

9 May 2008 at 3:48 pm

Jafa

You may not want to read about the good things that came out of the ECA but that would be tantamount to sticking your head in the sand.

The ECA means that I could always negotiate my own deal with any prospective employer, I am not bound by some silly union agreed contract that dictates what or how much I can earn, it also means that any workplace can negotiate directly with their employer, if employees are not happy with the deal they have then they always have the right to walk out and find a more generous employer.

[lprent: Huh? I don’t usually note on content errors, but… You can do the same thing under ERA. Don’t join a union and make your own contract with the employer.]

All I and others are arguing is that the employer should have the right to make the same choice within a 90 day period
jafapete 155

9 May 2008 at 4:12 pm

BB: “The ECA means that I could always negotiate my own deal with any prospective employer, I am not bound by some silly union agreed contract that dictates what or how much I can earn, it also means that any workplace can negotiate directly with their employer, if employees are not happy with the deal they have then they always have the right to walk out and find a more generous employer.”

1. Under the old award system, “awards” were minimum terms contracts, and it was usually possible for workers to negotiate better terms and conditions, and very large numbers of them did.

2. You can still do this under the ERA.

3. Very few “workpaces” negotiated directly with their employers, or used bargaining agents other than unions. Unions still did the vast majority of collective bargaining, even after 9 years of the ECA. Why do you think that was, if the alternatives were freely available?

4. A survey that was done a few years ago showed that it is still very much the case that “if employees are not happy with the deal they have then they always have the right to walk out and find a more generous employer” and do. A little known fact is that turnover was very high in NZ historically, and continues to be today, largely because this is a preferred means of dealing with an unsatisfactory employment situation in this country.

As always, references available on request. Also, enough for one day. I will be off to Galbraiths in an hour or so, and have no idea at all where robinsod is, so cannot hope to produce him, for whatever reason.
jafapete 156

9 May 2008 at 4:17 pm

Postscript, you will have noted from earlier posts that my main problem with the ECA is that the most vulnerable workers suffered the most, even before it came into effect in May 1991 (some employers couldn’t wait). You could add a few other things, such as the long-term macro-economic results of embarking on a low pay, low productivity path.

I don’t think the benefits that the ECA might have brought were worth the pain and I do think that there were much better ways to go about providing more flexibility in our labour market. finis
leftie 157

9 May 2008 at 9:37 pm

Whoa…155 posts. It seems that Employment Relations is a hot topic this close to the election. I cant be the only worker who has bad memories of last time National was government.

Links to post

A timely warning about workers’ rights « Jafapete’s Weblog: posted on 8 May 2008 at 10:21 am

Comments are now closed

Articles RSS

CommentsOpinions

FeedsPartyGovtMedia

As big as our problems are, the possibilities are bigger

Let me be blunt, says Nicola Willis to a room of people in suits, it's not the easiest time to be putting together a Budget.Let me be blunt: that's the only line in the speech with even the hint of a pulse.The rest is utterly bland and predictable. It's the ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

13 minutes ago
Has this country’s media lost its collective mind?

..To re-cap:Tuesday 6 May - Workplace Minister, and member of the Act Party which won only 8.64% of the vote, Brooke van Velden, announced that she had unilaterally scrapped thirty-three equal pay agreements.Minister Van Velden explained:"Claims have been able to progress without strong evidence of undervaluation and there have been ...

Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy

9 hours ago
Fact brief – Did Viking settlers enjoy a warm beach climate in Greenland?

Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Did Viking settlers enjoy a warm beach climate in Greenland? While Greenland’s southern coast supported some vegetation in the Medieval warm period (950-1250 ...

Skeptical Science

11 hours ago
A return to Nature.

Thomas Hobbes wrote his seminal work Leviathan in 1651. In it he describes the world system as it was then as being in “a state of nature,” something that some have interpreted as anarchy. However, anarchy has order and purpose. It is not chaos. In fact, if we think of ...

KiwipoliticoBy Pablo

16 hours ago
Bernard’s Saturday Soliloquy for the week to May 17

Labour’s Finance Spokesperson Barbara Edmonds (left) committed to the same Government net debt cap of 50% of GDP and the same aspiration of returning the budget to surplus by 2028/29 as National, which would severe limit the ability of any future Labour-led government to fix the unmeasured infrastructure, housing, health, ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

20 hours ago
National Has Increased The Child Suicide Rate

The latest UNICEF Innocenti Report Card 19, Fragile Gains - Child Wellbeing at Risk in an Unpredictable World, should be a wake up call for the New Zealand government. Ranking us 32nd out of 36 OECD and EU countries for child wellbeing, it lays bare a shameful truth: our kids ...

The Jackal

24 hours ago
Energy security needs pipelines, not promises

Few issues are as urgent and as poorly understood as Australia’s energy policy. While we build up renewable energy to replace an ageing and increasingly uneconomic coal fleet, we are more dependent on gas to ...

The StrategistBy Raelene Lockhorst and Henry Campbell

2 days ago
Catholic Theology on the Economy

While many of the world’s Christian religions seem preoccupied with personal issues that Jesus, their founder, barely touched upon, they must engage with economic issues too. Robert Prevost, chose the name Leo on becoming the 267th Bishop of Rome – the Pope – in homage to Leo XIII (in office ...

PunditBy Brian Easton

2 days ago
Making fact briefs available as videos on Youtube

Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending harmfully misleading claims, produced primarily for use by thinly-resourced newswrooms but also directly available to the general public. We announced this (renewed) collaboration in April 2024 in a blog post and have published more than 30 ...

Skeptical Science

2 days ago
Maybe Little should actually win the election first?

So, Andrew Little thinks the Wellington City Council should cancel its plans for the Golden Mile, because there's an election in five months: Andrew Little told Nine to Noon he'd be disappointed to see the council march ahead with the plan, given local body elections are to be held ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

2 days ago
Showcasing the economic benefits of AUKUS—today

To convince the public of AUKUS’s value, government and industry messaging should focus on how the program can provide benefits in the near term—not in 20 years. AUKUS is a megaproject that will define the ...

The StrategistBy Cameron Hendrix

2 days ago
Friday 16 May

The Council of Trade Unions met with Brooke van Velden and demanded that she reversed the recent pay equity changes. Remaining staff members at polytech UCOL may be expected to pick up some of the work of colleagues made redundant if a proposed restructure goes ahead. Health NZ on Thursday ...

NZCTUBy Jack McDonald

2 days ago
The Haka. The Cheering. Then The Bite.

IMPORTANT: Even if next week’s debate lessens the severe penalty onTe Pāti Māori, the punishment has been timed to ice their leaders out of Budget 2025, and the introduction of the anti Treaty of Waitangi Regulatory Standards Bill.When Te Pāti Māori stood up to perform a historic haka in the ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tūī

2 days ago
How to help the US Navy as it helps us: build a joint submarine facility

There’s a way for Australia to strengthen its case for the US presidential certification it will need for acquiring Virginia-class submarines. It should do so by accelerating construction of a planned shipyard in Western Australia ...

The StrategistBy Michael Pezzullo

2 days ago
Why Hasn’t Nicole McKee Registered Her Firearms?

In a stunning display of hypocrisy, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee, who also oversees firearms policy, has admitted she hasn’t registered her own firearms on New Zealand’s Firearms Registry, despite the legal requirement for all licensed firearms owners to do so.This isn’t just a minor oversight; it’s a slap in ...

The Jackal

2 days ago
The Hoon around the week to May 16

The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers on Thursday night features co-hosts & talking about the week’s news with regular and special guests, including: on news about climate change. about the latest news from Trump and others on Gaza, Kashmir, Ukraine and much more. ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

2 days ago
Your Place

What do you do when you're in your placeWhat's going through your whirling mindI wish I could see inside of your placeIt looks like a better place than mineNumbers divineYou have to findSongwriters: Henry Binns / Sam Hardaker.Today’s newsletter is about the injustice and racism of the suspensions faced by ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

2 days ago
Bernard’s Pick ‘n’ Mix & Daily Chorus for Friday, May 16

Briefly in the news from Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Friday, May 16:Auditor General John Ryan issued a scathing report yesterday into Oranga Tamariki’s abrupt and surprising cancellation and clawback last year of $60 million of funding for social services organisations, describing the agency’s (virtually nil) ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

2 days ago
How A Creative Sector Dies

Art is inevitable, eternal, inexhaustible, unsuppressable. It comes from a place deep within ourselves; it comes from the spaces deep between ourselves, and it connects us like a tether. Even when it’s silly or funny or rude or violent or immature or enigmatic or conventional or bad. (Name a filmmaking ...

Sapphi’s SubstackBy Stephanie Cullen

2 days ago
Pacific island countries need support to address information manipulation

Pacific island countries are being drawn into broader foreign information manipulation and interference efforts by countries such as Russia and China, which want to shape the global narrative in their favour. These operations often aim ...

The StrategistBy Blake Johnson

2 days ago
Skeptical Science New Research for Week #20 2025

Open access notables Institutionalizing politicized science, Moynihan & Herd, Science [editorial]: The opening months of the Trump administration represent a historic disruption to America’s scientific agencies. Staff have been fired or reassigned in the name of efficiency, resulting in chaos. Grants have been canceled mid-project for featuring the wrong words. “Pauses” ...

Skeptical Science

3 days ago
Shipbuilding to Citizenship: solving the US skills shortage with immigration

Skill-based immigration can help the United States fill its severe shortage of shipbuilding workers, for both naval and civilian construction. Bolstering the labour pool would help the US and its allies match the Chinese maritime ...

The StrategistBy Austin Wu

3 days ago
Craig Renney – Locked out – Budget 2025 – and the choices of the Coalition Governm...

Craig Renney will share his insights into Budget 2025, showing exactly what is going on with the government accounts, and what it might mean for the Election next year. Who are the winners and losers from the choices made by the Minister of Finance? How might different choices lead to ...

Fabians

3 days ago
Brownlee stands up for democracy

Yesterday, parliament's white privilege committee recommended that three Te Pāti Māori MPs be suspended for up to three weeks for opposing the racist Treaty Principles Bill with a haka. The penalty is outrageous and antidemocratic - and surprisingly, even National's Speaker agrees. At the beginning of question time today, he ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

3 days ago
How very dare you

I kind of enjoyed Judith Collins’ stint as flailing leader of the opposition. I enjoyed calling her ‘pop-up leader' because so much of her punchin’ Judy show felt like nothing so much as hammed-up Panto. A certain kind of person who spends too long in the legal profession can lose ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

3 days ago
Sri Lanka stalls Starlink over security and sovereignty concerns

Starlink is great for developing countries, offering connectivity without costly infrastructure. But it’s a challenge for their national security, since authorities can’t monitor the traffic it carries. This policy conflict arose in Sri Lanka in ...

The StrategistBy Malki Opatha

3 days ago
Economic Bulletin April/May 2025

Welcome to the April/May 2025 Economic Bulletin. The Minister of Finance has made it clear Budget 2025 will bring further cuts to public investment. She has chopped the operating allowance almost in half, said most government departments will not receive any additional funding, and signalled that numerous government programmes are ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

3 days ago
The video sums things up.

Let me make this short and sweet (taken from my other social media): Seeing some of the world’s richest men shaking the blood-stained hand of Saudi Crown Prince Muhammed bin-Salman while being warmly introduced by US president Donald Trump pretty much sums up the era we live in. It was ...

KiwipoliticoBy Pablo

3 days ago
191 NZers now emigrating each day, including 15 babies & toddlers

The exodus of New Zealanders goes on at a rate of one A320-plane load a day, including 15 babies and toddlers on each plane, every day of the year. Photo: SuppliedBriefly in the news from Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Thursday, May 15:Statistics NZ reported yesterday ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

3 days ago
The writing of Joseph S Nye Jr: highlights from The Strategist

Joseph S Nye Jr, who co-founded neoliberalism and identified the concept of soft power, died at the age of 88 on 6 May. Here are links to a selection from the 100 columns by Nye ...

The StrategistBy The Editors

3 days ago
Bernard’s Picks ‘n’ Mixes for Thursday, May 15

Briefly in the news from Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Thursday, May 15:Staffing shortages mean 60 patients in Palmerston North deemed high risk of getting bowel cancer have not been tested because of staffing shortages last year, Isaac Davison reports this morning for NZ Herald-$. See ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

3 days ago
Australia must stop overlooking misogynistic youth extremism

Australia’s young people are being radicalised to violence more frequently, more quickly, and for increasingly complicated reasons—including the spread of misogynistic ideology. It’s time we better understand the relationship between misogyny and violent extremism, and ...

The StrategistBy Astrid Young

3 days ago
Brownlee’s Bias: Māori MPs Punished, van Velden Spared

In a Parliament that’s supposed to uphold fairness, the recent punishments meted out to Te Pāti Māori MPs for their haka protest compared to Workplace Relations Minister Brooke van Velden for her use of the C-word expose a glaring double standard. Speaker Gerry Brownlee and the Privileges Committee have once ...

The Jackal

3 days ago
A Four-Letter Word

To me, coming from you,Friend is a four-letter word.End is the only part of the wordThat I heard.Call me morbid or absurd.But to me, coming from you,Friend is a four-letter word.Writer: John McCrea.The dilemma.The c-word! Brooke said it, loud and clear. You know the one. We all do, even if ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

3 days ago
Trading in Tomorrow for Today

See him wasted on the sidewalk in his jacket and his jeansWearin' yesterday's misfortunes like a smileOnce he had a future full of money, love, and dreamsWhich he spent like they was goin' outta styleKris Kristofferson, The Pilgrim, Chapter 33Luxon’s austerity reforms have objectively increased the country’s national debt, put ...

Sapphi’s SubstackBy Stephanie Cullen

3 days ago
How climate change is raising your electricity bill

This is a re-post from the Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In August 2023, during an especially brutal Texas heat wave, I opened my electricity bill and was stunned by the total. As someone who studies climate change, I couldn’t help but connect the dots: global warming had made the heat wave ...

Skeptical Science

3 days ago
The Telepathy Tapes is a Trojan Horse

Hi,This week The Telepathy Tapes won “Best Indie Podcast” at the Webby Awards.“For the voiceless, thank you!” said documentary maker and creator Dickens on Instagram, surrounded by some children in Telepathy Tapes t-shirts.Ky Dickens with her hands around some children in Telepathy Tapes t-shirts.The podcast continues to grow in audience ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

3 days ago
Gordon Campbell On The Mock Horror Over Political Profanity

Heavens to Betsy. Let me get this right. In her own opinion column, a female journalist (the fearsome Angela Vance) used a bad word to refer to female politicians who had just extinguished the ability of about 150,000 women to get fair pay for the work they do. The nation ...

WerewolfBy ScoopEditor

3 days ago
Outrageous and antidemocratic

That is the only way to describe the Privileges Committee's recommendation to suspend the leadership of Te Pāti Māori for 21 sitting days for their haka protest against the racist Treaty Principles Bill (the haka's leader, Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke, gets only 7 days). Outrageous because this is the harshest penalty ever ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

3 days ago
Government Blames Labour For Andrea Vance’s Article

The National-led government, flailing like a fish out of water, is now pointing fingers at Labour for Andrea Vance’s critical column in The Post. Finance Minister Nicola Willis, in a display that can only be described as unhinged, has tried to pin the blame for Vance’s blistering critique on the ...

The Jackal

3 days ago
AUKUS and deterrence: what, exactly, are we trying to deter?

AUKUS is one of the most ambitious allied defence undertakings in decades. But for all the high-end platforms and advanced capabilities it promises, a fundamental question remains underexplored: what, exactly, is AUKUS seeking to deter? ...

The StrategistBy Nishank Motwani

4 days ago
Editors’ pick: Australia’s security architecture must evolve, not regress

Alongside Monday’s cabinet reshuffle, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese returned responsibility for the Australian Federal Police and Australian Security Intelligence Organisation to the Home Affairs portfolio. ASPI executive director Justin Bassi outlined reasons for such a ...

The StrategistBy Justin Bassi

4 days ago
When A Pay Cut Isn’t

The past few days have been a whirlwind for the National Party.For once, their propaganda machine has hit a wrinkle: Women - and those that stand with them.National’s claims that Labour created an “unworkable” pay equity law is betrayed by footage of National Party MPs praising that same bill a ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tūī

4 days ago
Ministers of Finance

No, nothing so serious as fiscal policy. I saw this morning this chart in a tweet from a Canadian economics professor (prompted by the new ministerial appointments in Canada). I was digging around in the list of former New Zealand Ministers of Finance anyway, and thought it might be ...

Croaking CassandraBy Michael Reddell

4 days ago
Into the gloopy quicksand

Item OneHere's something my erstwhile fellow blogger Emma Hart wrote today that I've remade into a riddle:There's a bunch of jobs in this country that require tertiary qualifications and pay only just over minimum wage. What do they all have in common?Ten points and a chocolate fish to everyone who ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

4 days ago
Chinese pressure is a part of Solomon Islands’ politics. Other Pacific countries should take note

The Chinese embassy in Solomon Islands has reportedly pressured newly appointed Minister of Rural Development Daniel Waneoroa to quit an international group that challenges China’s authoritarian regime. This incident highlights Beijing’s increased tendency to pressure ...

The StrategistBy Blake Johnson

4 days ago
An alternative vision for Aotearoa

Its the budget next week, where National will inflict another round of cuts on kiwis in order to keep funding handouts to landlords and rich people. And while Labour is doing nothing (sorry, "keeping its powder dry"), the Greens are acting as the main opposition, releasing an alternative budget to ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

4 days ago
To Play the Queen of Hearts: Accepted (again!)

No, I haven’t disappeared from the internet, and I still intend to get around to finishing off that Narnia analysis. It’s just I’ve been doing what I am actually supposed to be doing. Specifically, writing original fiction – let’s just say May 2025 has been fairly productive thus far. Oh, ...

A Phuulish FellowBy strda221

4 days ago
No, Australian trade isn’t diversifying away from China

Australia’s free-trade agreements with nations other than China have delivered diversification in neither exports nor imports over the past decade, leaving Australia more tightly bound by trade to China than any other advanced nation. While ...

The StrategistBy David Uren

4 days ago
Outsourcing Operations

Well, we know where we're goin'But we don't know where we've beenAnd we know what we're knowin'But we can't say what we've seenAnd we're not little childrenAnd we know what we wantAnd the future is certainGive us time to work it outSongwriters: David Byrne / Tina Weymouth / Jerry Harrison ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

4 days ago
Localising northern supply chains will strengthen national resilience

Coming off the back of a successful NT Defence Week, one thing is clearer than ever: the Northern Territory is not just remote outpost—it is an asset central to our national security, economic resilience and ...

The StrategistBy Nicole Brown

4 days ago
Bernard’s Picks ‘n’ Mixes for Wednesday, May 14

Briefly in the news from Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Wednesday, May 14:The Government is diverting its NZ Superannuation Fund (NZSF) contribution for 2025/26 of $39 $61 million to the NZSF-managed venture capital fund Elevate. Nicola Willis says NZSF will start sending money back to the ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

4 days ago
The Lai Ching-te government shifts gears

Complex developments in Taiwan’s domestic legislative politics may affect the regional security outlook over the next 12 months. Since his election in 2024, Taiwan president Lai Ching-te has upheld the disciplined foreign policy of his ...

The StrategistBy Mark Harrison

4 days ago
National’s Law and Order Fiasco

The National-led coalition, which came to power in 2023 with grand promises of restoring law and order, has entirely failed to deliver. Along with help from the mainstream media, they painted a grim picture of a crime-ridden New Zealand, vowing to crack down on gangs, bolster police numbers, and make ...

The Jackal

4 days ago
Killing Kiwi Thoughtlessly

Reprinted from an earlier post by Mountain TūīOPINION AND ANALYSISLast week, on the same day the Government tore through Pay Equity under urgency, they passed another law under urgency.The government called it the “Wildlife (Authorisations) Amendment Bill”. Greenpeace called it the “Kiwi Killing Bill”.Now this topic has a number of ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tūī

4 days ago
Trump’s science cuts threaten public research data

US President Donald Trump’s cuts to scientific research create anxieties about the accessibility of research data. Scientists worldwide fear websites and data sets hosted in the United States will be deleted or decommissioned. While private ...

The StrategistBy Bart Hogeveen

5 days ago
Government Shouldn’t Ignore Courts Over Voting Rights

Under Chris Luxon’s "leadership", the coalition of chaos government is doubling down on policies that undermine democratic principles, particularly on prisoner voting rights and the voting age. The kicker here is that these issues should have already been settled.Two landmark cases that have already gone through the courts expose the ...

The Jackal

5 days ago
We’re all for change as long as it doesn’t change anything

My favourite bit of Gough Whitlam rhetoric is a three word retort he gave in a rowdy parliamentary debate.After all, declared Sir Winton Turnbull pompously, I am a country member.Yes, Whitlam called out, We remember.Gough, ages ago, with Bob HawkeOf all our four letter words, the C one packs the ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

5 days ago
Stress-testing US soft power

The father of soft power and smart power has died, just as the United States has been giving those concepts a deathly stress test. Whereas US President Donald Trump thinks hard power is all he ...

The StrategistBy Graeme Dobell

5 days ago
Copy of Budget 2025: delivering for whom?

On 22 May, the coalition government will release its budget for 2025, which it says will focus on "boosting economic growth, improving social outcomes, controlling government spending, and investing in long-term infrastructure.” But who, really, is this budget designed to serve? What values and visions for Aotearoa New Zealand lie ...

Fabians

5 days ago
One year on: no agreement for New Caledonia despite serious negotiations

It’s been a year since massive riots shook New Caledonia, but progress towards a long-term agreement on the territory’s status has been slow. Last week, intense closed-door talks failed to reach concensus. The discussions centred ...

The StrategistBy Astrid Young and Adam Ziogas

5 days ago
Pay Equity Changes Bad For The Economy

The Coalition of Chaos has done it again, proving their knack for prioritising the wealthy over the workers. The Pay Equity Amendment Bill, rammed through Parliament under urgency, is a kick in the guts for low-waged women, and obliterating decades of progress on pay equity reform in New Zealand.Workplace Relations ...

The Jackal

5 days ago
Luxon’s Ladies.

Sisters are doin' it for themselvesStandin' on their own two feetAnd ringin' on their own bellsSaid, sisters are doin' it for themselvesSongwriters: Annie Lennox / Dave Stewart.Did you ever fancy the idea of protesting? Of taking to the streets with your fellows and standing up to the system? Is there ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

5 days ago
Electricity inflation fears growing as Z Energy shuts Flick

Briefly in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Tuesday, May 13:Monopoly nation just struck again. Flick Electric is shutting, making the electricity market even more dominated by the big four gentailers: the 51% state-owned Meridian, Genesis and Mercury, and the privately owned Contact.Consumers increasingly fear another winter ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

5 days ago
Taiwan lacks clarity on energy security

Anyone would think that Taiwan, faced with a risk of blockade from China, would be doing all it could to ensure self-sufficiency or at least long endurance without supplies. But in energy security, it is going ...

The StrategistBy Jane Rickards

5 days ago
How to deny climate change using the IPCC report

This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Jeff Masters The new Department of Energy secretary, Chris Wright, until recently was the CEO of Liberty Energy, the nation’s second-largest fracking firm. In 2024, the firm published a manifesto called “Bettering Human Lives,” in which Wright makes a provocative statement that would ...

Skeptical Science

5 days ago
Gordon Campbell On The Parental Panic Over Young Kids Online

Creating a policy group to investigate a R16 ban on social media provides the government with a perfectly designed soapbox. The findings don’t have to end up suggesting anything useful, let alone a practical course of action. Yet in the meantime, the issue enables the government to connect with anxious ...

Gordon CampbellBy ScoopEditor

5 days ago
Beyond the percentage: Australia’s defence debate needs a smarter metric

The global strategic landscape is undeniably shifting. Great power competition is reasserting itself, technological disruption is accelerating, and the familiar certainties of decades past are eroding. For a trading nation such as Australia, deeply connected ...

The StrategistBy Andrew Horton and Putri Handrianti

6 days ago
Far from responsible and anything but gutsy

Back home to the seaside village, back home to a waterlogged and gobsmacked New Zealand.Waterlogged by the most April rain in April for half a century.Gobsmacked by this dismal government managing to set a new low in its disregard for anyone who isn’t white, wealthy or a man.Fair-minded and right-thinking ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

6 days ago
Albanese’s visit shows Indonesia is still a foreign policy priority

As Anthony Albanese prepares to travel to Jakarta for his first state visit in his second term, the symbolism is clear: Indonesia remains a cornerstone of Australia’s foreign policy. Since taking office, the Albanese government ...

The StrategistBy Gatra Priyandita

6 days ago
Monday 12 May

Opposition to the Government’s attacks on pay equity are gathering steam, with protests around the country and more than 65,000 people already signed on to a petition calling on the Government to reverse the changes. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says Cabinet will consider a social media ban on under-16s, despite ...

NZCTUBy Jack McDonald

6 days ago
Naked corruption

When National passed its corrupt, Muldoonist fast-track law, they were criticised for accepting donations from fast-track applicants. You'd think that after such criticism, and the consequent effect on the reputation of our state, they might have ceased the practice - but of course not. Instead, they're still taking money from ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

6 days ago
Nicola Willis Calls Pay Equity “A Grievance Industry”

Nicola Willis pulled the sympathy and sexism card this morning in an opinion piece for Stuff/The Post.In it, claimed she had been much maligned by, well, everyone, on pay equity, and “mainstream” journalists were guilty of “sexist slurs” and misinformation against her.The offending piece was Andrea Vance’s “The girl-math budget ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tūī

6 days ago
Rhys Williams – Arsehole of the Week

It’s time to shine the spotlight on a particularly vile specimen slithering through New Zealand’s political underbelly: Rhys Williams, this week’s Arsehole Award winner. Williams is a NZ First party activist (who didn’t renew his membership), and has carved out a niche as a homophobic, defamatory troll, hiding behind the ...

The Jackal

6 days ago
Bookshelf: Australia in a fragmenting and deglobalising world

Elisabeth Braw’s insightful 2024 book, Goodbye Globalization: The Return of a Divided World, has proven remarkably prescient in understanding the turbulent global landscape of 2025. While the era of globalisation promised unprecedented interconnectedness and prosperity, ...

The StrategistBy Marc Ablong

6 days ago

Chris Hipkins Speech Auckland regional conference

Tēnā koutou katoa. It’s fantastic to be here with you all—grassroots campaigners, organisers, union members, councillors, MPs, and Labour whānau. ...

Labour Blog

14 hours ago
Release: Minister’s rash orders fail frontline providers

The Auditor-General has found serious failings in the Government’s review of frontline providers such as counselling and prevention services. ...

Labour Blog

2 days ago
Release: Prices keep rising while National cuts women’s pay

Prices for essentials, like milk, butter and electricity continue to get more expensive under National, at the same time as the Government takes money from women’s pockets to save their budget. ...

Labour Blog

2 days ago
Te Pāti Māori Condemns Fast-Track Approval of Seabed Mining

Te Pāti Māori is gravely concerned by the Government’s approval of the Trans-Tasman Resources (Taranaki VTM) seabed mining project under its fast-track regime. This marks the first time a commercial shallow seabed mining operation has been approved anywhere in the world- pushed through with no transparency, no public input, and ...

Māori Party

2 days ago
Social Security Amendment Bill pushes poverty on people

The Government’s just-passed Social Security Amendment Bill is set to create more benefit sanctions that will push families deeper into poverty. ...

Greens

3 days ago
Report exposes damage of rushed cuts to Oranga Tamariki

Today’s report into last year’s Oranga Tamariki contract procurement process confirms the Government’s brutal cuts were rushed, poorly managed, and made with no concern for the impact on tamariki. ...

Greens

3 days ago
210,000 Māori Silenced: Committee Delivers Harshest Punishment in Parliament History

Today the Privileges Committee handed down a severe punishment. Te Pāti Māori Co-leaders Rawiri Waititi and Debbie Ngarewa-Packer have been suspended for 21 days, and MP for Hauraki-Waikato Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke has been suspended for 7 days. ...

Māori Party

3 days ago
Release: Govt finally admits 180,000 in line for a pay cut

The Government finally admitted late last night that roughly 180,000 people will be affected by its decision to halt pay equity claims. ...

Labour Blog

4 days ago
Release: Admin nearly a quarter of entire FamilyBoost spend

Nearly a quarter of the money spent on the Government’s flagship FamilyBoost policy has gone to administration, not to families to help with childcare. ...

Labour Blog

4 days ago
Green Budget: Early Childhood Education for Everyone

The Green Party has unveiled its new plan to make Early Childhood Education (ECE) free. ...

Greens

4 days ago
Green Budget delivers for Māori

The Green Party is delivering for Māori with its Green Budget. ...

Greens

4 days ago
Green Budget: Free GPs for all

The Green Party has launched its plan for Free GPs as part of its Green Budget. ...

Greens

4 days ago
Green Budget for a country worth fighting for

The Green Budget shows how much better our lives could be under a Green Government, instead of one dominated by corporate greed. ...

Greens

4 days ago
Chris Hipkins: Pre-Budget speech

Tēnā koutou katoa. Good morning. I read recently that one of the keys to success in life is to do the hard stuff first thing in the morning. ...

Labour Blog

5 days ago
Release; Budget should not be paid for by working women

The Government must do three things in Budget 2025 if it is genuinely going to turn things around for New Zealanders. ...

Labour Blog

5 days ago
Release: Peeni Henare takes over foreign affairs

Labour’s Peeni Henare will pick up the foreign affairs portfolio, following David Parker’s departure from Parliament. ...

Labour Blog

6 days ago
Release: Govt better at crushing women’s rights than cars

Rehashing old laws around boy racers is not going to make our communities safer, or distract New Zealanders from the appalling decision to cut women’s pay. ...

Labour Blog

6 days ago
No Justice for State Abuse Survivors- Kapa-Kingi

Te Pāti Māori MP for Te Tai Tokerau calls out the government’s decision to keep funding state abuse, turning their backs on justice and real change for abuse in care survivors. “The government has committed to throwing $744 million down the drain, reinforcing a violent regime of disrespect against the ...

Māori Party

1 week ago
Govt’s War on Te Tiriti Continues as Review of Treaty Act Announced

Te Pāti Māori is absolutely disgusted by the Government’s announcement to review the Waitangi Tribunal- a deliberate and dangerous escalation in its ongoing campaign to undermine Te Tiriti o Waitangi and silence tangata whenua. “The Government’s onslaught against Te Tiriti continues with this latest move to review the Treaty of ...

Māori Party

1 week ago
Tribunal review an attack on Te Tiriti o Waitangi

The Government’s plans to limit the powers and scope of the Waitangi Tribunal is a disgrace. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Tribunal review an attack on Te Tiriti o Waitangi

The Government’s plans to limit the powers and scope of the Waitangi Tribunal is a disgrace. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Release: Labour asks why Govt is silent on Gaza

Labour is asking the Government why it is silent on Israel’s deliberate use of starvation as a weapon of war in Gaza, saying New Zealand should be speaking out. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Release: Govt ignores the voices of survivors

Survivors of abuse in state care have a right to feel disappointed and sidelined by the Government. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Redress announcement leaves little justice for survivors

The Green Party is appalled by the Government’s decision to severely underfund financial compensation for survivors of abuse in state care. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Release: Bill launched to stop tobacco industry lobbying

Labour is launching a members’ bill to stop the Government from putting tobacco industry interests ahead of public health. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Release: Labour fights for firefighters

The Labour Party backs volunteer firefighters who are currently not covered by ACC for workplace disease and mental injury and is drafting policy to put this right when the party wins the election in 2026. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Wildlife law change a deep betrayal of public trust

The Green Party is appalled by the Government’s use of urgency to rewrite the Wildlife Act–without consultation, without an impact statement, and in direct response to a court ruling in favour of protecting wildlife. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Release: National cuts women’s pay

National has forced through a law change that will take money out of women’s pockets. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
‘Govt’s Pay Bill Entrenches Discrimination Against Women’ – Kemp

Te Pāti Māori stands in staunch and emotional opposition to the Government’s so-called Equal Pay Amendment Bill, calling it a calculated attack on working women and a cruel betrayal of the generations who have fought for pay equity in Aotearoa. “This bill doesn’t just undermine equal pay — it completely ...

Māori Party

2 weeks ago
Release: Fewer jobs and opportunities for Māori, again

In the last 12 months life has only got worse for Māori under Christopher Luxon’s Government. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Release: More than one in 10 Pacific people unemployed under National

There are more Pacific people unemployed as the rate increases to a staggering 10.8% under National. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Release: Unemployment remains high under National

Job losses remain stubbornly high under National, as their attack on jobs, wages, and women rages on. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Govt for the rich is failing the unemployed

The latest job market statistics show that unemployed people are being failed by a Government more focused on punishing the poor than creating jobs. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
RSE Draft Erases Rainbow and Takatāpui Youth

Te Pāti Māori is demanding urgent changes to the draft Relationships and Sexuality Education (RSE) framework, calling it a dangerous step backwards for Takatāpui, trans, and rainbow rangatahi. “This draft erases Takatāpui voices, ignores whānau diversity, and delays consent education. It’s not just inadequate, it’s unbelievably unsafe” said Te Pāti ...

Māori Party

2 weeks ago
RSE Draft Erases Rainbow and Takatāpui Youth

Te Pāti Māori is demanding urgent changes to the draft Relationships and Sexuality Education (RSE) framework, calling it a dangerous step backwards for Takatāpui, trans, and rainbow rangatahi. “This draft erases Takatāpui voices, ignores whānau diversity, and delays consent education. It’s not just inadequate, it’s unbelievably unsafe” said Te Pāti ...

Māori Party

2 weeks ago
Release: Labour welcomes inquiry into school lunches

Labour welcomes the Auditor-General’s inquiry into the Government’s school lunches programme. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Release: Women will keep being paid less under National

This Government is taking the women’s movement backwards, ensuring women will continue to be paid less into the future. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Govt takes workplace equity efforts backwards

The Green Party has called out the Government’s latest attack on workers with the announcement that it is halting all pay equity claims. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Release: Questions over Erica Stanford’s personal email use

Erica Stanford has been misusing her personal email address to manage sensitive information relating to Budget and visa changes prior to their public release. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Greens launch Member’s Bill to close loophole allowing animal cruelty in imports

Today, Green Party MP Steve Abel has added a new Member’s Bill to the biscuit tin to ensure any product sold in New Zealand meets New Zealand’s animal welfare standards, even if it’s produced overseas. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago

Stepping up in a changing global environment

Good evening. Thank you to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs for organising this event, and for your efforts to foster New Zealand’s understanding of international affairs. I am grateful for the opportunity to speak here today. As keen observers and practitioners of international relations, you will all ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
New High Commissioner to Kiribati announced

Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced Pati Gagau as New Zealand’s next High Commissioner to Kiribati. “Our diplomats play a critical role in advancing New Zealand’s interests overseas,” Mr Peters says. “Nowhere is this truer than in the Pacific, where we strive to work with our Pacific partners to forge a more ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Changes to improve pay equity process

The Government is amending the Equal Pay Act [the Act] to make the process of raising and resolving pay equity claims more robust, workable and sustainable, Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden announced today. Pay equity is achieved when women and men are paid the same for work ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Proposals to strengthen biodiversity released

Toitū te taiao – Our environment endures The Government is consulting on proposals to better protect our precious biodiversity and its economic benefits for future generations, Conservation Minister Tama Potaka says. “Today, the Department of Conservation – Te Papa Atawhai is releasing two discussion documents for public consultation, and I ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Trade negotiations with India commence

Following significant engagement over the last month, the first in-person round of negotiations towards a comprehensive India New Zealand Free Trade Agreement (FTA) will take place in India this week. This follows the highly successful visit to India last year by Deputy Prime Minister, Winston Peters and the formal launch ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
NZ-EU trade deal delivers export growth

The early entry into force of the New Zealand–European Union Trade Agreement (FTA) is paying off, with Kiwi goods exports to the EU surging by 28 per cent during the first year. “In the last 12 months our goods exports to the EU surged from $3.8 billion to over $4.8 ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Celebrating New Zealand Sign Language

Now is the time for Kiwis to give New Zealand Sign Language a go as we take a week to celebrate the language, Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) week. The theme is that “anyone can sign anywhere”. “NZSL is an official ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Boosting high-tech exports with advanced technology

New investment in advanced technology research will boost high-tech exports, strengthen connections between research and industry and generate high value jobs, Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today. “Advanced technology research leads to life-changing innovation,” says Dr Reti. “The breakthroughs that can be achieved through areas like ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Post-Cabinet Press Conference: Monday 5 May 2025

POST-CABINET PRESS CONFERENCE: Monday, 5 May 2025 EPIQ TRANSCRIPT PM: Well, look, good afternoon, everyone. It’s great to be joined this afternoon by our awesome Trade Minister, Todd McClay, who’s doing some incredible work. As you know, it’s a big sitting block with the Budget at the end of ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Parent Portal launched to empower parents

Every parent wants to see their child thrive at school — to feel confident, supported, and capable. Today, the Government is taking a major step toward making that aspiration a reality with the launch of a new Parent Portal: an online resource designed to enable families to play their part ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
New helicopters a commitment to global security

The Defence Force’s ageing maritime helicopters will be replaced to increase the defensive and offensive capability and surveillance range of New Zealand’s frigates, Defence Minister Judith Collins announced today. “The replacement of the Seasprite helicopters will also extend the Navy’s ability to support non-combat tasks such as humanitarian assistance and ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Prime Minister congratulates Albanese and Wong

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has congratulated Anthony Albanese on winning the Australian Federal Election, and Lawrence Wong on winning the Singaporean election. “I have been in touch with both Mr Albanese and Mr Wong to offer my congratulations on retaining office,” Mr Luxon says. “When we spoke, Mr Albanese and ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Hunting and Fishing Minister joins game bird season opening hunt

Hunting and Fishing Minister James Meager has joined the thousands of New Zealanders taking part in the annual game bird hunting season opening. He spent the morning at Te Nohoaka o Tukiauau / Sinclair Wetlands, a 315-hectare portion of the Lakes Waihola-Waipori wetland south of Dunedin, hosted by Fish & ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Attendance dashboard shows early insights into term 2

Associate Education Minister David Seymour says that new up-to-date attendance data is helping provide fresh insights into student attendance. For example, data for the first week of term 2 shows the effect of wild weather and which regions were standouts. The average attendance across week 1 is 87.1 per cent. ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
New air ambulance helicopter for Auckland and Northland

A new air ambulance helicopter commissioned today will significantly enhance emergency medical response capabilities across Auckland and Northland, Associate Health Minister Hon Casey Costello and ACC Minister Scott Simpson announced today. “This state-of-the-art helicopter represents a major advancement in aeromedical service delivery, and we are pleased to see it become ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Oranga Tamariki showing clear progress on key performance targets

Public reporting on key performance indicators for Oranga Tamariki show the Ministry is making strong progress on its most important goals. In its second public reporting on key performance indicators, Oranga Tamariki has made progress across all four key priority areas emphasised by Minister for Children, Karen Chhour. “In 2024, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
New Member appointed to Waitangi Tribunal

Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka today confirmed the appointment of Gerrard Albert of Whanganui, Ngā Paerangi, to the Waitangi Tribunal for a three-year term to fill a vacancy. Mr. Albert is the former Chair of Ngā Tāngata Tiaki o Whanganui, the post-settlement governance body for Te Awa Tupua. He has ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Raising achievement & closing the equity gap at school

The Government is continuing to raise achievement and close the equity gap in schools across the country, so all Kiwi kids have the knowledge, skills and competencies they need to reach their full potential, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. The Governments’ ambitious changes reflect the responsibility we have to these ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Developing a new Action Plan for unpaid carers

The Government is taking action to better support unpaid and informal carers, Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment Penny Simmonds says. Every morning across New Zealand, unpaid carers are helping loved ones get ready for the day — preparing meals, arranging medication, assisting with transport, and offering vital support, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Deputy PM concludes constructive visit to New Caledonia

Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters has concluded a constructive and positive visit to New Caledonia - New Zealand’s closest geographical neighbour. Mr Peters met the French Minister for Overseas Territories, Manuel Valls, and the President of the Government of New Caledonia, Alcide Ponga. “We came to listen and ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Third procedure room to expand endoscopy capacity in Hawke’s Bay

Endoscopy services at Hawke’s Bay Fallen Soldiers’ Memorial Hospital are set to expand, with the addition of a third procedure room, Health Minister Simeon Brown announced today. “Improving New Zealand’s health infrastructure is a top priority for the Government, to ensure all Kiwis can access timely, high-quality healthcare,” Mr Brown says. ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Government remains on track to ban full Farm-to-Forest conversions

Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has confirmed that restrictions on full farm-to-forest conversions on LUC 1-6 farmland will be in place this year, and reaffirmed that they will take effect from 4 December 2024 - the date of the original announcement. Enabling legislation will be introduced to Parliament during ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Youth Parliament 2025 participants announced

The 123 Youth Members of Parliament and 20 Youth Press Gallery members officially announced for 2025 represent the best of New Zealand, Youth Minister James Meager says. “Our Youth MPs come from a wide range of backgrounds, and each have their own unique story, bringing diverse points of view to ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Saudi Ministerial visit sends strong signal for NZ Trade and Investment growth

Trade, Investment and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has wrapped up a successful programme hosting Saudi Arabia’s Minister of Environment, Water and Agriculture, His Excellency Eng Abdulrahman A. AlFadley, in Auckland this week for the 9th New Zealand–Saudi Arabia Joint Ministerial Commission. “This visit builds on growing momentum in our trade ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
New data highlights progress in childhood immunisation rates

New data released today shows steady improvements in childhood immunisation rates across the country, highlighting the Government’s commitment to ensuring every child gets the best start in life, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. “Improving childhood immunisation rates is a priority for our Government. The latest quarterly figures show immunisation coverage ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Better banking competition one step closer for Kiwis

The Government is moving swiftly to ensure Kiwis will be able to benefit from open banking by Christmas this year, says Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Scott Simpson. “Recently our Government passed the Customer and Product Data Act – one of the items in our Quarter 1 Action Plan to ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Rural Health Roadshow coming to Wairoa

Associate Health Minister with responsibility for Rural Health and Minister for Mental Health Matt Doocey is pleased to be in Wairoa today as part of the Rural Health Roadshow across the country. “I was pleased to begin the roadshow in Levin recently where I had the opportunity to hear from ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
Advancing Antarctic research on climate change impacts

The Government is investing in Antarctic research to better understand changes on the icy continent and how they could affect New Zealand, Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today. “What happens in Antarctica matters to us here in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “For example, as Antarctic ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago
New tools to help women navigate online harm

A new toolkit to support women and their employers address online harm has been launched by Minister for Women, Nicola Grigg, at the Local Government New Zealand conference today. “The prevalence of online harm has become a serious issue, disproportionately impacting women who are in the public eye. The growing ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 weeks ago

An Ode to .. Judge Judy

C BombKing’s Landing was riven by factional strife.The fog of war lay heavy on the Grand Palace,And was made worse by randomly exploding water pipes.The Mistress of Decorum, Judge Judy of Oravida,Held court in the Star Chamber.The unruly tribespeople were brought before her.“You are guilty of using the traditional ceremoniesOf ...

NewsroomBy Victor Billot

14 minutes ago
‘Cracks are opening up’ in Western complicity over Gaza genocide, says Minto

Asia Pacific Report About 2000 New Zealand protesters marched through the heart of Auckland city today chanting “no justice, no peace” and many other calls as they demanded an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and an end to the Israeli atrocities in its brutal war on the besieged Palestinian enclave. For ...

Evening ReportBy Asia Pacific Report

3 hours ago
Fiji rights coalition slams ‘betrayal’ of West Papua for Indonesian benefits

By Anish Chand in Suva Prime Minister Sitiveni Rabuka and Fiji’s coalition government are “detached from the values that Fijians hold dear”, says the NGO Coalition on Human Rights in Fiji (NGOCHR). The rights coalition has expressed deep concern over Rabuka’s ongoing engagements with Indonesia. “History will judge how we ...

Evening ReportBy Asia Pacific Report

7 hours ago
Counsellors urge government to take heed of Oranga Tamariki report

The Auditor-General said funding and contract changes at the agency last year lacked clear understanding of how changes would affect at-risk children and families. ...

Radio NZ – political

11 hours ago
Pasifika Leaders, Influencers Weigh In On Proposed Social Media Ban For Under 16s

They have shared a mix of views, from cautious support to concern, and even strong opposition. ...

Scoop politics

15 hours ago
ER Report: A Roundup of Significant Articles on EveningReport.nz for May 17, 2025

ER Report: Here is a summary of significant articles published on EveningReport.nz on May 17, 2025. A life of service: celebrating the career of Luamanuvao Dame Winnie LabanSPECIAL REPORT: By Moera Tuilaepa-Taylor, RNZ Pacific manager At this year’s May graduation ceremony, Te Herenga Waka Victoria University’s Luamanuvao Dame Winnie Laban, ...

Evening ReportBy Evening Report

15 hours ago
A life of service: celebrating the career of Luamanuvao Dame Winnie Laban

SPECIAL REPORT: By Moera Tuilaepa-Taylor, RNZ Pacific manager At this year’s May graduation ceremony, Te Herenga Waka Victoria University’s Luamanuvao Dame Winnie Laban, was awarded an honorary doctorate in recognition for her contribution to education. Although she has now stepped down from the role, Luamanuvao served as the university’s Assistant ...

Evening ReportBy Asia Pacific Report

16 hours ago
‘Manu jumping’: The physics behind making humongous splashes in the pool

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Pankaj Rohilla, Postdoctoral Fellow in Fluid Dynamics, Georgia Institute of Technology Maybe you’ve unknowingly tried to do a manu jump. Isabel Pavia/Moment via Getty Images Whether diving off docks, cannonballing into lakes or leaping off the high board, there’s nothing quite like ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

17 hours ago
The House: Parliamentary privileges – Race as an aggravating factor?

Analysis: Reactions and advice from Parliament's Clerk, Speaker and even the committee chair show it has recommended indefensibly harsh punishments. ...

Radio NZ – political

19 hours ago
Short story: The visit, by Sherry Xu

Mei, wrapped in a blanket, looked out of the window and saw hail scattered on the deck. “Come and look!” she called out to Wu Lei in the sitting room. He didn’t budge, continuing to play games on his laptop.The sun had warmed the room by around eleven o’clock. She ...

NewsroomBy Sherry Xu

1 day ago
Fractured season finale: Good news at last

It began with a single email.In November 2023, Joris de Bres, a former New Zealand Human Rights and Race Relations Commissioner, wrote to Newsroom’s investigations editor Melanie Reid with the subject line: “Separated by ...

NewsroomBy Bonnie Sumner

1 day ago
The Secret Diary of .. Brooke GPT

MONDAYAndrea Vance writes a newspaper column. It is critical of the pay equity reforms which I have fast-tracked through Parliament to bring about lasting, meaningful change. Tokenism and top-down mandates won’t get us there. Smarter policy will. Vance fails to understand these principles and also resorts to coarse language.We can ...

NewsroomBy Steve Braunias

1 day ago
‘Water cooler viewing’: Michelle Ang on the magic of McDonald’s Young Entertainers

Actor, director and producer Michelle Ang looks back on her life in television. Michelle Ang’s career has taken her all the way from The Tribe to Top of the Lake to Star Wars: The Bad Batch, but it’s her earliest TV role that many New Zealanders remember most fondly. Back ...

The SpinoffBy My Life in TV

1 day ago
The Weekend: What does ambition look like?

Madeleine Chapman reflects on the week that was. Over new years, I was in Japan on a lovely trip, waiting outside a tiny cafe run by an old man. He didn’t have a website or anything, but had recently gone viral on TikTok for one of the few dishes he ...

The SpinoffBy Madeleine Chapman

1 day ago
‘Quiet, beautiful, sorrowful’: Before the Winter Ends by Khadro Mohamed, reviewed

Melissa Oliver revels in poet Khadro Mohamed’s debut novel. Have you ever been halfway through a book and needed to pause and sit with it for a minute to take in the fact that this will be your only first time reading it? Like you already know it will be ...

The SpinoffBy Melissa Oliver

1 day ago
The Phantom of The Opera, taonga pūoro and the NZ origins of a classic silent film

100 years ago, a New Zealander was the first person to bring The Phantom of The Opera to the screen. Lyric Waiwiri-Smith attends a centennial screening of the iconic silent film with a special musical accompaniment. On the roof of the Palais Garnier, in a film reel drenched in blue, ...

The SpinoffBy Lyric Waiwiri-Smith

1 day ago
Meet the kaiāwhina who volunteer to keep protesters safe

Since the first rally in support of the people of Gaza in 2023, seasoned activists knew there would be counter-protesters. They formed a group, Kaiāwhina Tāmaki, to de-escalate disruptions and keep people safe. “Our first week, we were like a fruit salad,” says Bianca Ranson (Ngāpuhi, Ngāti Kahu ki Whangaroa), ...

The SpinoffBy Gabi Lardies

1 day ago
‘One hell of a lesson’: a conversation with Ngāhuia Te Awekōtuku

Matariki Williams speaks with Ngāhuia Te Awekōtuku about her extraordinary memoir, Hine Toa. Ngāhuia Te Awekōtuku won the General Non-Fiction Award for her memoir Hine Toa: A Story of Bravery (HarperCollins Publishers Aotearoa New Zealand) at last week’s Ockham New Zealand Book Awards. General Non-Fiction convenor of judges Holly Walker ...

The SpinoffBy Matariki Williams

1 day ago
Chatbot research an ethical minefield

How do you do research on how chatbots affect opinions on social media, without resorting to throwing artificial voices into an opinion thread on social media?Well, certainly not the way the University of Zurich went about it, by secretly launching a series of Reddit profiles run by chatbots pretending to ...

NewsroomBy Davina Zimmer

1 day ago
Time for NZ media to ditch the propaganda and stand against genocide

COMMENTARY: By Saige England in Christchurch “RNZ is failing in its duty to inform the public of an entirely preventable humanitarian catastrophe.” Tautoko to Jeremy Rose, Ramon Das and Eugene Doyle for this critique of a review of RNZ’s coverage of a genocide. Sadly, this highlights RNZ’s failure to report ...

Evening ReportBy Asia Pacific Report

1 day ago
Newsroom’s Jonathan Milne wins two national media awards

Senior Newsroom journalist Jonathan Milne has won two standout honours at the national Voyager Media Awards – declared business journalist of the Year and winner of best original podcast for his international investigation PowderKeg.Milne, who is managing editor of the Newsroom Pro subscriber newsletter and section, won praise from judges of both ...

NewsroomBy Newsroom Staff

1 day ago
Pasifika leaders, influencers weigh in on proposed social media ban for under-16s

They have shared a mix of views, from cautious support to concern, and even strong opposition. ...

Radio NZ – political

1 day ago
Media Council makes ‘stop Telikom PNG silencing journalists’ plea to PM Marape

The Media Council of Papua New Guinea (MCPNG) has called on Prime Minister James Marape to stop Telikom PNG silencing and suppressing media personnel. Telikom PNG, which is 100 percent government-owned, has two key outlets: FM100 radio and EMTV. Recently, it sacked FM100 talkback host Culligan Tanda after he featured ...

Evening ReportBy Asia Pacific Report

1 day ago
Ben Roberts-Smith has lost an appeal in his long-running defamation case. Here’s why

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rick Sarre, Emeritus Professor in Law and Criminal Justice, University of South Australia The full Federal Court has dismissed Ben Roberts-Smith’s appeal to have his defamation case loss overturned. It is important in seeking to understand this judgement to know the history ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

1 day ago
With a new minister for early childhood education, what can the federal government do to make centre...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Victoria Minson, Senior Lecturer in Early Childhood Education, Australian Catholic University This week, more reports emerged of horrific abuse of children at childcare centres. An ABC investigation reported young children had suffered burns and been verbally abused. In another case, a baby ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 days ago
With a new minister for early childhood education, what can the federal government do to make centre...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Victoria Minson, Senior Lecturer in Early Childhood Education, Australian Catholic University This week, more reports emerged of horrific abuse of children at childcare centres. An ABC investigation reported young children had suffered burns and been verbally abused. In another case, a baby ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 days ago
Waitangi Tribunal recommends ‘immediate halt’ Regulatory Standards Bill for ‘meani...

It comes from the Tribunal's interim report into the bill, which follows a one-day urgent hearing early this week. ...

Radio NZ – political

2 days ago
Australian researchers use a quantum computer to simulate how real molecules behave

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ivan Kassal, Professor of Chemical Physics, University of Sydney University of Sydney Nano Institute When a molecule absorbs light, it undergoes a whirlwind of quantum-mechanical transformations. Electrons jump between energy levels, atoms vibrate, and chemical bonds shift — all within millionths ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 days ago
Australian researchers use a quantum computer to simulate how real molecules behave

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ivan Kassal, Professor of Chemical Physics, University of Sydney University of Sydney Nano Institute When a molecule absorbs light, it undergoes a whirlwind of quantum-mechanical transformations. Electrons jump between energy levels, atoms vibrate, and chemical bonds shift — all within millionths ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 days ago
To boost the nation’s health, the government’s proposed food strategy must put people over profi...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachael Walshe, Post-doctoral Researcher, University of Canberra crbellette/sShutterstock On election night, a triumphant Anthony Albanese took to the stage brandishing a Medicare card as a symbol of the nation’s commitment to public healthcare. As the re-elected government gets to work on ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 days ago
To boost the nation’s health, the government’s proposed food strategy must put people over profi...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachael Walshe, Post-doctoral Researcher, University of Canberra crbellette/sShutterstock On election night, a triumphant Anthony Albanese took to the stage brandishing a Medicare card as a symbol of the nation’s commitment to public healthcare. As the re-elected government gets to work on ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 days ago
You usually need more than a few drops of blood, saliva or urine to detect illnesses. Here’s why

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amali Cooray, PhD Candidate in Genetic Engineering and Cancer, WEHI (Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research) Lumen Photos/Shutterstock In the 2000s, biotech company Theranos promised to revolutionise blood testing. Founder Elizabeth Holmes claimed Theranos technology could perform hundreds of ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 days ago
You usually need more than a few drops of blood, saliva or urine to detect illnesses. Here’s why

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amali Cooray, PhD Candidate in Genetic Engineering and Cancer, WEHI (Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research) Lumen Photos/Shutterstock In the 2000s, biotech company Theranos promised to revolutionise blood testing. Founder Elizabeth Holmes claimed Theranos technology could perform hundreds of ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 days ago
Waitangi Tribunal calls on Govt to halt Regulatory Standards Bill

Act leader David Seymour has taken another swing at the Waitangi Tribunal, as the body calls on the Government to stop progressing its ‘good lawmaking’ bill and properly consult with Māori.In response to a report from an urgent inquiry into whether Act’s Regulatory Standards Bill breaches Te Tiriti o Waitangi, ...

NewsroomBy Laura Walters

2 days ago
Public Submissions Are Now Being Called For The Valuers Bill And Amendment Paper 286

This bill would not make any substantial policy changes to the Act. It would make minor changes to the Act to correct inconsistencies and omissions. It is intended to rewrite the law using plain language and modern drafting style. ...

Scoop politics

2 days ago
Ngāti Kahungunu Appalled By Pulling Of Te Reo Signage

Ngāti Kahungunu demands the immediate reinstatement of bilingual signage and a full rewrite of Waka Kotahi’s rulebook so that this never happens again. ...

Scoop politics

2 days ago
Some young trans people take sex hormones so their bodies better align with their gender. What are t...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cristyn Davies, Senior Research Fellow in the Specialty of Child and Adolescent Health, Faculty of Medicine and Health, University of Sydney romain-jorge/Shutterstock Triggered by hormonal changes in the brain and body, puberty marks a physical transformation. Oestrogen and testosterone – often ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 days ago
Greenpeace Slams Acceptance Of Seabed Miner’s Application

Experts say that seabed mining in the South Taranaki Bight would damage rich ecosystems and threaten precious marine life such as the pygmy blue whale, Māui and Hector’s dolphins and kororā. ...

Scoop politics

2 days ago
Saudi Arabia has big AI ambitions. They could come at the cost of human rights

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Niusha Shafiabady, Associate Professor in Computational Intelligence, Australian Catholic University This week, on his tour of the Middle East, United States President Donald Trump unveiled a suite of new deals with Saudi Arabia. Trump claimed the deals were worth more than ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 days ago
Why Anthony Albanese’s presence at Pope Leo’s inauguration is shrewd politics

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Darius von Guttner Sporzynski, Historian, Australian Catholic University When Prime Minister Anthony Albanese steps into St Peter’s Square for the inaugural Mass of Pope Leo XIV on Sunday, the optics will be far more than pious courtesy. For a day, the ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 days ago

Workers be careful, says Aussie Unionist

Related Posts

158 comments on “Workers be careful, says Aussie Unionist ”

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

Related Posts

Related Posts

Related Posts

Related Posts

Workers be careful, says Aussie Unionist

Share this:

Related Posts

158 comments on “Workers be careful, says Aussie Unionist ”

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

Share this:

Related Posts

Share this:

Related Posts

Share this:

Related Posts

Share this:

Related Posts