Workers be careful, says Aussie Unionist

Written By: Dancer - Date published: 10:13 pm, May 7th, 2008 - 158 comments
Categories: workers' rights - Tags: ACTU, labour, national, Unions, workers' rights

Sharan Burrow (President of Australian Council of Trade Unions) talked to Morning Report about the union experiences in Australia under a conservative government, and their hope for the future with Kevin Rudd. She also had some words of warning for NZ workers:

“We say to your workers here, be very careful, you don’t want to go backwards to the early 90s, it’s a world that is not good for working people. Rights at work are fundamental and I would urge all of your workers to make sure that political parties here, if they want to change the government, actually, do the right thing by workers.

Certainly when we look across the ditch….we see you with a rights base that’s been reconstructed after the era of the early 90s that does much better things with collective bargaining, much more respectful of workers. And we were so envious of that in the last eleven years. So be careful, don’t go backwards, that’s our message.”

It highlights that Labour Relations is core policy for the left. The extent to which National can make itself a small target on this one will be really interesting.

UPDATE: Radion NZ podcast here.

158 comments on “Workers be careful, says Aussie Unionist ”

Comments are now closed

vto 1

8 May 2008 at 8:04 am

An area I applaud labour on. Sticking up for the workers.

Mind you, sometimes they get carried away …
big bruv 2

8 May 2008 at 8:47 am

Great…so Labour “stick up for workers”

Is this why our wages are so far behind Aussie? Labour have had nine years to improve the lot of the working man yet the gap continues to grow.
higherstandard 3

8 May 2008 at 8:51 am

BB

You forget the Standard line on this issue it’s the employers fault that wages are lower than Australia.

[lprent: I’ve never said anything about workers rights. Tane and Irish usually do.]

IrishBill says: Wrong HS – http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=945 but given it’s employers who have failed to invest in productive capital and who have spent the last eight years making big profits while paying wage increases only a little higher than inflation I think they can probably shoulder some of the blame.
mawgxxxxvi 4

8 May 2008 at 9:12 am

Surely union officials have a vested interest in workers remaining union members irrespective of the real benefit to the workers, after all their jobs and salaries depend on worker union fees.

As far as income levels are concerned isn’t it funny how those who earn the most are not members of unions ? The highest earners are those who take responsibility for their own lives and don’t hand that off to unions (or governments ). Being a union member is not a good predictor of a high income.
IrishBill 5

8 May 2008 at 9:19 am

Maw, do you ever make a statement that is based in fact? Union members get higher wages than their non-unionised peers. The highest increases in earnings however, are senior management. Last year the average salary increase for CEO’s of large companies was 25%. Here’s a tip: CEO’s generally are not union members.

To be honest you’re continual stream of mis-information is becoming a little dull.
jafapete 6

8 May 2008 at 9:31 am

Magwxxxxvi, a truely magnificent display of ignorance! Allow me to disabuse you of some of your blind prejudice.

“Surely union officials have a vested interest in workers remaining union members irrespective of the real benefit to the workers.”

Fact: workers are free to join or leave unions in this country (where there is one available).
Fact: research here, as elsewhere shows that NZ workers have a largely instrumental approach to union belonging. There are a few who join for ideological reasons, but they are relatively very few.
Fact: research shows that not only are union members generally very positive with their unions (as one would expect, belonging being voluntary), but a substantial chunk of the non-members in unionised workplaces believe that they would be worse off without unions (call these people free-riders). These people see benefits in belonging, and are in a better position to judge this than you are, mawgie.
Fact: research also shows that in NZ, as elsewhere, a substantial number of those in non-union workplaces say that they would like to join if they could. Around 30%. Most of the rest are indifferent, as one might expect given that (the research shows) these people tend to know little about unions. Very few think that they would be worse off with a workpace union.

Then you say, “As far as income levels are concerned isn?t it funny how those who earn the most are not members of unions?”

If we look at the employed, you will be surprised to learn that levels of unionisation RISE as income rises, until well into the top tax bracket. Same with education, rises to post-graduate degree level. You are surprised because your views are rooted in mid-20th century prejudice and bear little relationship to 21st century reality. What does the modal union member look like? Forget the cloth cap and think nurse-manager. (Did I mention gender? More female unionists than male, now).

So, mawgie, now you have no excuse for your ignorance. References available on request.
Steve Pierson 7

8 May 2008 at 9:33 am

maw. it’s not true that the highest paid professions are not unionised – look at how highly unionised doctors are.

In fact, some of the high paid professions are not just unionised they effectively have guilds, which is but a stroger form of collecive organsiation than a union – the Law Society, the Chartered Accountants, the Medical Council – they police their industry, prevent people they don’t want from practising in it and, as the is the point of any workers’ collective, ensure good rates and conditions for their members.

Capitialists form ‘unions’ all the time – the Employers’ and Manufacturers’ Assocation, the Chambers of Commerce, Business NZ, the Business Roundtable, dozens of industry lobby groups. These are all forms of collective organisations intended, just like a union, to improve the conditions and rewards for their members.

Collective action makes sense,united people are much stronger than they are divided – good lobby groups get the outcomes their members want, highly unionised industries have higher pay. So it is not surprising to find that the oldest and most highly educated professions and busiensses have very strong collective control of their industry. It’s just when the working people do it that it gets opposed.
mawgxxxxvi 8

8 May 2008 at 10:05 am

IrishBill: “Last year the average salary increase for CEO’s of large companies was 25%. Here’s a tip: CEO’s generally are not union members.” Doesn’t that demonstrate my point ? You don’t get to be CEO of an organisation by letting other people take responsibility for your life or by joining a union.

What can unions offer you ? Maybe a pay increase at the rate of inflation or slightly above if you are a member of a particularly powerful one ? My concern about unions is that encourage people to hand over responsibility for their lives and facilitate “learned helplessness”.
mawgxxxxvi 9

8 May 2008 at 10:16 am

Steve: you make some goods points with your comments concerning professional societies. I am sure however that the members of these societies don’t accept limitation of their income by the societies and that they set their own fees based on what the market will allow. I’m also sure that the most highly paid medical practitioners are not on salary with the state but are in private practice even if they contract back services to the state.

IrishBill says: “limitation of their income” makes no sense. Collective agreements are minimum rate documents. All union members are free to negotiate individual terms and conditions above their collective and many do so. What employers can’t do is offer terms and conditions below the collective: it sets minimum standards. You have no idea of Employment Law, Maw and I suggest you do some research before you make further comment.
IrishBill 10

8 May 2008 at 10:17 am

“You don’t get to be CEO of an organisation by letting other people take responsibility for your life or by joining a union.”

Maw, unless your are part of a lucky sub-one-percent group you don’t get to be a CEO full-stop. Are you, for example, a CEO of a major New Zealand company? If you are not and also clearly not a union member I would like to ask you what’s holding you back?

AS for “learned helplessness” you obviously have no idea about how unions run these days. They are voluntary organisations run by their membership. That means union members decide on what they are going to ask for, union members sit at the negotiating table and union members vote on to accept the deal or to take industrial action. The only roles officials have is as expert advocates in negotiations and grievances.

If anything unions are the vehicle through which workers get together to take responsibility for their working lives.
Neilson 11

8 May 2008 at 10:20 am

Mawg

CEO’s are not in a position to join a union as they are the employer and sign collective agreements with the union and negotiate (or send a rep) the agreement and they could not be negotiating the contract or attending the meetings where discussions are held about what bottom lines the staff have in negotiating as this would give management an unfair advantage in the negotiations.

Also there is only one CEO in an organisation whose remuneration is negotiated with the board (their employer)

For these reasons they cannot join the union and so the comparison is invalid.

Regards
Alexander

Captcha
needy Incorporated – very apt
Hoolian 12

8 May 2008 at 10:28 am

I’ve heard terrible stories about the unions in Australia – like striking because the slices of ham (provided by the company) at lunch were too thin, or because their coke machines were removed.

The Aussies love Kiwi workers because we’re such hard-working, productive workers who get down to it and get the job done.

I’m totally for and in support of Worker’s rights, but I also know you can go overboard. We don’t want that here in NZ.
James Kearney 13

8 May 2008 at 10:32 am

I’ve heard terrible stories about the unions in Australia – like striking because the slices of ham (provided by the company) at lunch were too thin, or because their coke machines were removed.

I heard of an employer in Australia who fucks pigs. So what?
jafapete 14

8 May 2008 at 10:39 am

Well, it doesn’t look like Mawg’s about to let facts and logic get in the way of his/her prejudice. And Hoolian, has it never occurred to you that striking over slices of ham might just be due to numerous other causes of discontent including, quite often, poor management?

So… back to the real question. Are workers’ rights under threat come November?

I’ve concluded elsewhere that it does seem that National have cottoned on to how unpopular anti-worker laws are. Certainly, the fate of Howard and his Workchoices law provides a sobering reminder.

Since Key took over, the hysterical attacks on the ERA by Wayne Mapp have diminished, and noises have been made about no substantial changes being made to the current settings. We await the release of their policy with optimism, tempered with fear of backsliding after the election (should they win).

What do you think?

IrishBill says: The only policy National has explicitly confirmed in relation to work rights is the removal of all work rights for workers in the first 90 days of a new job. I think that’s a good indication of where they stand on IR.
IrishBill 15

8 May 2008 at 10:41 am

And I’ve heard terrible stories about employers in Australia like the behavior of Patrick Stevedoring in the late nineties:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/07/2209454.htm

Australia is a far more robust employment environment in which both sides are more aggressive than they are here.

Having said that many Australian based companies make a much higher profit to investment here because they import their aggressive behavior. This is curtailed to some extent by the current employment law (although I would argue we need strong protections) Under the liberalised employment environment the National party wants workers here would have to bow to this rapacious behaviour or start employing the much harder tactics of Australian unions. My advice to employers who back the reintroduction of ECA-type legislation is be careful what you wish for.
Billy 16

8 May 2008 at 10:44 am

But…but…but…IrishBill, I thought balking at giving money away to Australians was xenophobic.

http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1867
randal 17

8 May 2008 at 10:46 am

well the tories wont win this year or in the forseeable future so workers look to be reasonably protected
IrishBill 18

8 May 2008 at 10:49 am

Don’t be facetious Billy.
mawgxxxxvi 19

8 May 2008 at 10:57 am

Note to self: be wary of commenting on unions on a Labour party blog.

Gentleman: you have corrected some of the misunderstandings I had about modern unions. I was a member of (and briefly a delegate for) the NLGOU way back in the 80’s. During that period I witnessed many examples of union stupidity especially by the other big union on site the EWU. Times as you say, have changed.

IrishBill says:Happy to be of service but please note this is not a Labour party blog but a labour movement blog. There is a significant difference.
vto 20

8 May 2008 at 11:05 am

Anyone here concerned about employer/business-owner rights?

While I applaud those that stick up for the workers, as I said often it goes too far. And everything this govt has done has quite simply made it harder to employ people and own and operate a business. Well done. IrishBill’s statement (copied below) is a perfect example.

How about making it easier to employ people for a change.

IrishBill said: “The only policy National has explicitly confirmed in relation to work rights is the removal of all work rights for workers in the first 90 days of a new job.”

Ever think IrishBill that the reverse is actually the case i.e. is the re-instigation of employer rights?
Dim (was dime) 21

8 May 2008 at 11:08 am

yea bruv, its the evil business owners that dont pay their stuff enough money!

it makes me sick, these people put everything on the line, they start a business.. work their asses off.. have all the stress and worries… and yet they dont share their profits with the workers!

what scumbags!
mike 22

8 May 2008 at 11:18 am

“Union members get higher wages than their non-unionised peers”

Not in my work place IB
Non union workers are generally rewarded with performance bonuses – coincidently of course…

IrishBill says: Free-loading is a problem with the current law. Having said that the performance bonuses would be a lot lower if there was no union on site (and the pay increases would be higher if union density was 100%). I’m would say that the workers at your site earn more than workers doing the same job at a comparable but un-unionised site.
vto 23

8 May 2008 at 11:19 am

Agree with your sentiment Dime.

I have a business, which at its peak last year had over 100 people employed directly and roughly the same again indirectly in supply. My wife and I and our children put EVERYTHING on the line. The stress, work, etc etc etc etc is ridiculous. And then you get slammed left right and centre by especially Cullen and his ilk.

I tell you a truth. I have the ability to keep this business going and ramp it up even. Quite a contribution to the community I would have thought. But frankly it is simply not worth it. I am pulling back. This is a truth.

I will simply sit back, put my energy into other aspects of life, and wait until the settings are improved before getting economically (and hence employingly) active again.

Usually those that employ have had experience at employment. However, it seems those that are employed have no experience at employing. Why don’t you givt it a go and see what it’s like.

IrishBill says: I assume from our previous exchanges that you have a building business. Given the current change in that industry (such as decrease in consents) I’m guessing employment law is one of the less important factors in your business decisions. Or did you expand in the 1990’s?
jafapete 24

8 May 2008 at 11:24 am

Big Bruv & Dime,

Oh, so it’s the employers who do all the work? Silly me, here I was thinking that the workers might have had a hand.

Note that not all employers have set up their own businesses in the recent past. Think Doug Myers, one of your heroes. Inherited most of his pile, and, according to the Court of Appeal [Coleman v. Myers], pinched much of the rest of it off his rellies.

Note also that clever employers have discovered that treating their employees well, including paying them well, results in better organisational performance, including higher profits for the shareholders. Your distorted view of the world has more to do with Dicken’s England than a modern corporation.
James Kearney 25

8 May 2008 at 11:27 am

Anyone here concerned about employer/business-owner rights?

In a social democracy you have to strike a balance but don’t pretend New Zealand is some kind of workers’ paradise. We have some of the most neoliberal employment law in the developed world.

Your problem is your benchmark is the Pinochet-esque employment law ushered in by the Nats in the 1990s.
IrishBill 26

8 May 2008 at 11:27 am

“And everything this govt has done has quite simply made it harder to employ people and own and operate a business”

VTO, no what they have done is transfer some accountability onto the employer. In my opinion if employers can’t deal with what is a pretty liberal and simple employment law they should probably not be employers.

Dime, you’ve got nothing but empty rhetoric. New Zealand is the second highest rated country in the world for ease of doing business. Most workers depend on their jobs to feed and house themselves and their families. What you are suggesting is that the a large part of the risk businesses take (and which businesses gain the reward from) is transfered to their workers. For instance the stress and worry of whether tomorrow would mean having a job to go to would be transfered onto workers for the first 90 days of their employment if National got their way. Of course there would be no extra reward for these workers.

I figure you probably see that as fair but I think you’ll find you’re in the minority there.
mawgxxxxvi 27

8 May 2008 at 11:29 am

IrishBill: thanks for the clarification re the blog provenance. A friend in the hospitality business in Wellington told me that the Standard was run out of the 9th floor, clearly she was wrong. I’ll put her right. Thanks
Dim (was dime) 28

8 May 2008 at 11:42 am

i lived in aussie for 5 years and having a 90 day trial was just outstanding.

irishbill – ever employed someone? ever got it wrong? its grief!!! a 90 day trial is fair. if youre a good worker – you have nothing to worry about? why are we trying to protect slackers?

I have employed people and I have never had a bad experience. If you manage people properly it’s not a problem. Getting rid of people for non-performance under the ERA is also not a problem as long as you give them an opportunity to sharpen up.

as for empty rhetoric, its just what goes through my head when i turn on the radio and i hear some unionist demanding a slice of the profits because a company has had a good year.. i dont see it going the other way when companies have a bad year.

Oh but it does. A zero percent increase when times are tough for a business is certainly not unknown in business circles (thankfully, much less so now that there has been economic growth).

i guess it just comes down to envy… we should admire business owners that are doing well, it should inspire us to better ourselves.. not just put our hand out.

Envy? That’s the stupidest thing you’ve said yet and you’ve said some pretty stupid things. Most workers are happy to see their boss do well but like to see their share of the gains they help make. A sensible employer does share because they understand that this will increase their workers’ desire to help the business grow.

VTO – theres a lot to be said for keeping a business at a certain level.. work/life balance and all that.
Matthew Pilott 29

8 May 2008 at 11:50 am

dime – when you say it was outstanding, I assume you mean from an employer’s perspective?
vto 30

8 May 2008 at 11:54 am

IrishBill, it is a tough and brutal world that is for sure. One thing – you suggest that the 90 day trial period is transferring the accountability onto the worker implying that it should actually rest with the employer.

I don’t understand that reasoning (or even what the reasoning is). The risk is that the employee is a dud – why should that risk not lie with the employee?
Daveo 31

8 May 2008 at 11:54 am

i lived in aussie for 5 years and having a 90 day trial was just outstanding.

There is no 90 day trial in Australia. Howard’s workchoices law allowed employers with fewer than 100 staff to sack workers for no reason whatsoever regardless of how long they’ve been employed. There have been some bloody horror stories.
Dim (was dime) 32

8 May 2008 at 12:01 pm

actually from both sides.

i went through a 90 trial with my first ever job. no problems.

i became management and some people didnt survive after 90 days. so yeah it was good for my department.

i then changed jobs down the track and at the end of 90 days i had a meeting with management. i basically went in to say see ya later and they said “its not quite working out is it”.. to which i replied.. nope! so it was see ya later!

the 90 day trial is just that..a trial.. looking back, if i hadnt of gone through that 90 day trial.. i probably would have stuck around an extra few months, been unhappy.. was good to have a time frame.. from there i went on to achieve greatness somewhere else 🙂

its sad that people think a 90 day probation period or whatever you want to call it, will just be used for evil.

employers dont set out to employ bad staff!! trust me, no employer wants to let someone go after 3 months! its freakin grief employing people.

its not a good look either! not good for staff morale, not good for a companies customers to see staff turnover etc.

do you really have a problem with a company having some protection in this area?
IrishBill 33

8 May 2008 at 12:09 pm

The risk is that the employee is a dud – why should that risk not lie with the employee?

Vto, Because being in business means taking risks in exchange for rewards. Every time a business invests in any way it takes a risk. Unless you are going to argue that the risks of capital investments should be underwritten by the law then I don’t see how you can argue that investments in workers should be. If you decide to expand to a bigger workshop, don’t do due diligence on the building and then find it was a poor business decision then who’s fault is that?
big bruv 34

8 May 2008 at 12:10 pm

The Poms have a law (I assume it still stands) that allows you to fire an employee for any reason at all within the first 12 months, personally I think that just invites abuse, I favour the 90 day trial period.

Dime is right, employers should and must have some protection in this area.
vto 35

8 May 2008 at 12:20 pm

IrishBill, I gotta fly, but just quickly.. your argument is a huge tub into which most anything could be tossed.

The employee presents at the interview, holds him/herself out as being appropriate for the job and capable of performing it and is taken on on that basis. When it transpires shortly after that the employee is not in fact so capable etc then the problem should rightly lie with the employee, not the employer.

There is no comparison with items of capital expenditure. You can check a building, check a machine, etc and get it pretty accurate. In fact, following your comparison – if an item of machinery is purchased and does not perform as promised then you send it back (or similar).

I understand your argument but do not accept it as appropriate in employment circumstances.
IrishBill 36

8 May 2008 at 12:22 pm

Dime, many employers would take advantage of such a situation and most of them would be employers of vulnerable low-skilled workers such as fast-food workers and cleaners. Many of these employers already show disregard for their workers under the current legislation and would happily exploit their workers further given the chance.
Dim (was dime) 37

8 May 2008 at 12:28 pm

irish bill – wtf??

so if this law came in, maccas would start hiring people and firing them after 90 days.. for fun?? it makes no sense.

as for your risk/reward thing.. just weird.

VTO answered that well enough.. so no need for my 2 cents

IrishBill says: moron. If you run renewing 90 day contracts you effectively keep your workforce without rights. That means no grievance costs and no union (if they join a union you fire them) and that means massive labour savings.
vto 38

8 May 2008 at 12:29 pm

Without a 90 day trial, or similar, employing someone is an outright gamble.

IrishBill says: when I employ people I have taken the time to check their references and to background them. I also spend a decent time interviewing them and getting to know who I’m dealing with. I haven’t had a dud yet. It’s called good management and it means I don’t need a law that would harm tens of thousands of workers just because I’m not up to scratch. If you feel you do then you should consider sharpening up your HR practices.
mondograss 39

8 May 2008 at 12:35 pm

You can do a 90 day trial period in NZ, it’s quite legal and in fact I had one at my current job when I started last year. The thing is though, you still have to follow standard dismissal procedures if you decide not to continue. An employer cannot sack you at the end of the 90 days without having good reasons, or made a decent effort to work through whatever issues have caused the arrangement to not work out. They can’t however just sack you for no reason and with no comeback, which is what National are proposing. Mapps bill is a violation of natural justice, if you hired someone in good faith, you have an obligation to make it work. If it turns out they lied about the skills or quals then you can sack them on that basis, but if they’re just lacking in a bit of training, or the attitude is a bit poor etc you have to give them a chance to make good.
Dim (was dime) 40

8 May 2008 at 1:02 pm

haha there we go again with the name calling?

i’m not sure where i spoke renewing 90 day contracts? why would anyone do that? weird. it’s only for the first 90 days of employment.

good to see you’re the perfect manager 🙂 well done for never having a problem.

also good to see you make shit up to justify your position.

just so im clear irish – you’re a moderator here? or you have something to do with the site?

IrishBill says: take some time to read up and find out. You’re banned from commenting for a week for calling me a liar.
randal 41

8 May 2008 at 1:06 pm

gosh it is really fun reading natoinal propaganda from people who obvioulsy have never owned their own business at all but any business that is not prepared to stand by its workers is no business at all…just an outlet for neanderthals to stand over people who need money to feed their families.
Dim (was dime) 42

8 May 2008 at 1:15 pm

[deleted]

[lprent: Irish banned you for a week. See above]
Dim (was dime) 43

8 May 2008 at 1:26 pm

[deleted]

[lprent: I suggest you read the Policy page at the top of the screen, and yes Irish is a moderator (otherwise he can’t leave comments on comments).]
jafapete 44

8 May 2008 at 3:04 pm

Quite ironic that dime got “sacked” from the blog for a week, no? Albeit with cause. So he won’t have any problems with that.

Mondograss is quite correct, except that employees who lie about their quals, etc, to get a job can generally be sacked at any time when this is discovered, with no comeback, not just within 3 months.

Dime probably had a 3 month “trial” in Oz rather like that in NZ which Mondgrass describes, but didn’t realise that he counldn’t be sacked at the end of it. Given his grasp of these matters I’d be surprised if that weren’t the case.

The UK experience is telling. Especially when the labour market is loose, many employers of the low-paid routinely sack these workers just before the 12 month period ended, so avoiding any legal obligations that come with permanent employment.

Incidentally, many fast food operators get around the law by hiring on a casual basis, rostering week-by-week. So, if someone talks about joining the union, say, they simply don’t find themselves rostered to work.
Billy 45

8 May 2008 at 3:11 pm

“…employees who lie about their quals, etc, to get a job can generally be sacked at any time when this is discovered, with no comeback, not just within 3 months.”

No. You still have to follow the tiresome process and if you trip up on any step you’re in the cart. If you see an employee wandering around the factory floor chopping his colleagues ears off you have to sit him down and ask him for his side of the story, consider his explanation in an open-minded fashion, allow him to bring his support person blah blah blah. And even if you do it all right, he’ll file with the employment relations tribunal and you’ll have to spend $5k on a lawyer even if you win. So it will be cheaper to give him $3k to piss off, so he can start chopping off ears at the next place.
Redeye 46

8 May 2008 at 4:20 pm

I wanted to contribute here but I’m not exactly in agreement with Irish and it seems that unless you are, your out. So I wont.

[lprent: Disagreeing with people is fine – people do it here all of the time.
Abusing them isn’t. In this case directly saying he was a liar without a shred of evidence was definitely over the top. That was just trying to start a flamewar.

This is all in the Policy document at the top of the page. Read that.

The difference isn’t hard to figure out. Just think about what you’d take as a personal attack, compared to a disagreement about ideas.]
jafapete 47

8 May 2008 at 4:30 pm

Billy, Not a bad summary of the check-list, but flawed overall.

Presumably you mean Employment Relations Authority, the Tribunal having ceased operations eight years ago.

Firstly, the law is very clear about sacking people who have demonstrably lied about themselves, so that if someone was silly enough to take a case to the Authority, you would have a great case to claim costs. In mediation the mediator would be bound to make it clear to the complainant that they would take a bath in the ERA.

Secondly, one would hope that you would go through the “tiresome process” in the real world (as opposed to your imaginary world where workers chop each others’ ears off). what do you think that the effect is on the other workers if you just go around arbitrarily sacking people, as you are proposing?

And can’t you see that when you pay out $3,000 every time someone threatens you with the ERA you are simply making that an expectation? I advised an employer who had fallen into that trap to call the workers’ bluff (they had no case) and take it to court if necessary. Know what? No more spurious actions. Everyone got the message. You don’t have to be that clever to work this out, but obviously it pays to think a little more about it than you have.
Matthew Pilott 48

8 May 2008 at 4:37 pm

Redeye, please go for it – just best not to call someone a liar on their own blog. Irish explained what some do worry could become commonplace in certain industries with a 90-day bill.

Billy – for serious misconduct your contact can generally be terminated without notice. Ear-chopping, inappropriate pig relations and lying about qualifications all would constitute serious misconduct.

If the employee feels it is unjustified the can take a complaint to teh employment relations authority, but if they lied about their qualifications, they’d probaby be tossed out on their ear!

Check out some better examples:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10507227

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=189&objectid=10493521
Billy 49

8 May 2008 at 4:39 pm

“Firstly, the law is very clear about sacking people who have demonstrably lied about themselves, so that if someone was silly enough to take a case to the Authority, you would have a great case to claim costs. In mediation the mediator would be bound to make it clear to the complainant that they would take a bath in the ERA.”

An employee lying about him or herself gives an employer a good reason to sack the employee. But, if the employer fails to follow a fair process it is the employer who will be bathing.

“What do you think that the effect is on the other workers if you just go around arbitrarily sacking people, as you are proposing?”

Do you think sacking someone for removing body parts is arbitrary?

“And can’t you see that when you pay out $3,000 every time someone threatens you with the ERA you are simply making that an expectation?”

Yes. Do employers fall into the “trap”, as you call it? Every day.
Tane 50

8 May 2008 at 4:42 pm

But, if the employer fails to follow a fair process it is the employer who will be bath

People have a right to fair process, it’s that simple. Fair process is a part of the skillset a manager needs to do their job – if they can’t get their head around basic employment practices then they should reconsider their choice of career.
Billy 51

8 May 2008 at 4:44 pm

Tane, it is almost never big companies who get caught out. It is the plumber or the owner of the retail shop employing one or two people. They can’t afford an HR department, and they usually can’t afford to get it wrong. So lots of them try not to employ anyone.
big bruv 52

8 May 2008 at 4:54 pm

Dime

You should know the rules by now, all the Labour “luvvies” can abuse us all they like, we are not allowed the right of reply, if you do then you are banned.

You should not be surprised at this, Labour are all about double standards and breaking rules.
big bruv 53

8 May 2008 at 4:54 pm

More moderation?….you guys must be feeling the pressure.
Robinsod 54

8 May 2008 at 5:32 pm

They can’t afford an HR department, and they usually can’t afford to get it wrong. So lots of them try not to employ anyone.

Do they pay an accountant? Because tax law is more complicated than the ERA. But y’know Billy, if you want to reduce the rights of all New Zealand workers just so a few small employers can save a few hundred dollars on professional advice then I guess that’s your call.
Billy 55

8 May 2008 at 5:42 pm

There I was thinking you guys were against injustice…
Rattus Norvegus 56

8 May 2008 at 8:22 pm

[lprent: I suspect we have the reincarnation of Dim here again. But I’ll let it through to see if he has learnt a more civilized behaviour. It is fairly obvious he was never taught how to argue properly. Perhaps he can learn some lessons here.]

The exploitation of Dimebag was disgusting, he never even had a 90 day trial and here he is being persecuted, first with the crude insult, then by the Chinese style control of free speech and then by expulsion.

What type of ideal is this of free speech in a free country and in a free democracy ?

I hate fascists and all they stand for by controlling what is printed in order to pursue their own Utopian fallacy.

This is a fascist regime, for fascists, run by fascists.

Power to the people !! stand up and fight.

Dime, what a martyr, for speaking the truth.
Rattus Norvegus 57

8 May 2008 at 8:29 pm

And Matthew, if you take a complaint to the ERA they will chuck it out straight away, and force you to go to mediation. Your Lawyer takes it to the ERA afterwards.
Rattus Norvegus 58

8 May 2008 at 8:39 pm

In fact, some of the high paid professions are not just unionised they effectively have guilds, which is but a stroger form of collecive organsiation than a union – the Law Society, the Chartered Accountants, the Medical Council – they police their industry, prevent people they don’t want from practising in it and, as the is the point of any workers’ collective, ensure good rates and conditions for their members.

Huh ?
Those people are free to join a Union if they wish, and how do they prevent those who they do not want in ?

I’m lost, please explain this outrageous statement
Steve Pierson 59

8 May 2008 at 9:18 pm

Rattus. I’m talking about professional associations that are controlled by the professionals and have the legal power to prevent anyone not registered with them from practicing their profession – that’s basically a guild and modern versions include the Law Society and the Medical Council (you must be registered with them to practice). I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, I’m saying that’s an example of collective action in a profession to protect and improve the position of the members of the profession, it’s what a union does but stepped up a level. It’s not a surpirse that we find these stronger forms of collective action, backed by the power of legislation in the more highly paid professions.
leftie 60

8 May 2008 at 9:20 pm

I don’t get this common argument from employers referring to employment law and employing unsuitable employees: “But, if the employer fails to follow a fair process it is the employer who will be bathing.”

If I speed and get caught I get a speeding ticket. If I steal at work (commonly known as gross misconduct) and get caught it is grounds for instant dismissal. I know and accept the rules and if I break them I have to accept the consequences. Employers are right into calling it “compliance”, what’s so hard about complying with employment law? Follow the rules (comply), no problem the employee can be fairly (and rightly) dismissed. Break the rules, accept the consequences. Is this a genuine concern or simply a whinge? Perhaps it is a situation where the employer tries pushing the boundaries and gets called on it?
Matthew Pilott 61

8 May 2008 at 9:30 pm

Rattus, thanks for the clarification about the ERA. Doesn’t make much of a difference in the end…

As for dime’s ‘martyrdom’, ah, dime called someone a liar when they were completely wrong and perhaps a tad confused. Don’t let rationality disrupt your wee rant though.

Actually I retract that, you’re clearly taking the mickey there. If you ever fill out a personal, don’t forget the GSOH! Tee hee.
Matthew Pilott 62

8 May 2008 at 9:34 pm

Hey Bruv, I’m in moderation. This is now me not having a rant about it. Feel free to take note.
Rattus Norvegus 63

8 May 2008 at 9:36 pm

Rattus. I?m talking about professional associations that are controlled by the professionals and have the legal power to prevent anyone not registered with them from practicing their profession – that?s basically a guild and modern versions include the Law Society and the Medical Council (you must be registered with them to practice). I?m not saying that?s a bad thing, I?m saying that?s an example of collective action in a profession to protect and improve the position of the members of the profession, it?s what a union does but stepped up a level. It?s not a surpirse that we find these stronger forms of collective action, backed by the power of legislation in the more highly paid professions.

They have the power to exclude those who dont meet their professional standards. Such as a qualifications authority has he power to exclude those who do not pass exams. Its is not an authority to exclude those who are not idealogically one of us, but those who do not meet entry criteria, such as a degree, a professional competency exams, practical compentencies and a code of ethics, or else anyone could join.
Its about professional standards above all, for the public good.

Its not about prevention, its about meeting standards
Rattus Norvegus 64

8 May 2008 at 9:42 pm

[lprent: I suspect we have the reincarnation of Dim here again. But I’ll let it through to see if he has learnt a more civilized behaviour. It is fairly obvious he was never taught how to argue properly. Perhaps he can learn some lessons here.]

Huh, what do you mean by civilised behaviour ?

Is that agreeing with everything the downtrodden left and the salt of the earth workers say ?
Rattus Norvegus 65

8 May 2008 at 9:47 pm

Matthew

banning someone for speaking out does convey a sense of martyrdom, in the same way Lech Whelsa, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther, Joan of Arc and Leon Trotsky were made famous for speaking out, and then persecuted.

IrishBill says: you forgot David Irving. I would have thought he’d be at the top of your list.
Rattus Norvegus 66

8 May 2008 at 10:03 pm

And come-on Matthew
I’ve read posts by this Irish Billy Chap as follows

“Maw, do you ever make a statement that is based in fact?”

“To be honest you’re continual stream of mis-information is becoming a little dull.”

“You have no idea of Employment Law, Maw and I suggest you do some research before you make further comment.”

“Don’t be facetious Billy.”

“Dime, you’ve got nothing but empty rhetoric.”

“Envy? That’s the stupidest thing you’ve said yet and you’ve said some pretty stupid things.”

“IrishBill says: moron”

In fact “Moron” came after Dime accused you of “also good to see you make shit up to justify your position.”.

Not once did Dimebag call this Irish Bobby chap anything.

I suggest this IrishBully grow some balls and learns to take back what he throws at people.

God, I’m glad I’m Scottish

[lprent: Let me make this quite clear. Around here I make the rules – you are a guest. The rules are very loose because there are limits on how much effort I’m willing to take. The simpliest solution for me is to simply kick people off and make sure they stay off. However the moderators have been encouraging me to not be such a bastard sysop.

Dim got kicked off because he walked over an edge. But Dim was on route there already because its comments appeared to not add much to the discussion apart from trying to start flamewars. I’d already had reason to warn Dim earlier – something that was obviously not read. Saying things to deliberately inflame poinless schoolyard level discussion is not tolerated by me. I have to read it.

Guess what – I’m the ONLY judge of what constitutes unacceptable behaviour here. Live with it or leave. It isn’t a topic for discussion.

Oh and I had a look at the discussion on Pandasport… Remember this is a moderated site frequented by adults – even their schoolyard antics have more intelligence than dim’s.]
lprent 67

8 May 2008 at 11:56 pm

BB: please put down the drink before reading this. I feel for your abused keyboard.

update wp_comments
set comment_author=’Dim (was dime)’
where comment_author in (‘dime’, ‘Dime’)

See here

Roughly translated this means “do not piss off a sysop”.
r0b 68

8 May 2008 at 11:59 pm

Matthew: Hey Bruv, I’m in moderation. This is now me not having a rant about it. Feel free to take note.

I end up in moderation too occasionally, maybe I share an IP with someone misbehaving. It’s nothing to fret about, comments usually clear moderation pretty fast.
r0b 69

9 May 2008 at 12:00 am

Lynn, your second link above is null.
r0b 70

9 May 2008 at 12:02 am

Hmmm – and your first link leads to a page we ordinary users can’t see (“You are not allowed to edit comments on this post”).

[lprent: picked the link off the admin pages. Should be correct now]
lprent 71

9 May 2008 at 12:05 am

Nope – it is the spam merchants that we’re fighting continuously. They try slipping the messages into old posts. The latest round are a bit more subtle. A lot are from local IP’s, and they’ve finally decided to stop selling sex and moved on to dvd’s, movies, and other things.

I’ll have another look at it after I get some other code out of the way.
Felix 72

9 May 2008 at 1:07 am

Wow, pandasport is amazing. People who use porno as avatars high-fiving each other for typing inane things at the standard.

Dim’s Motley Crue sig is particularly revealing.
vto 73

9 May 2008 at 8:47 am

Gotta say I think the levels of tolerance before banning etc on this site seem pretty low. Maybe let things slide a bit more. But its your show, you make the rules..

2c
big bruv 74

9 May 2008 at 9:09 am

Comrade Iprent

Rattus is NOT Dime.

Rattus, you should know by now that Iprnet only allows comments that praise dear leader, not surprising when you consider who pays for this site.

[Tane: Lynn pays for the site. You’re running pretty close to a banning with your repeated smears bruv – but I’ll leave that to Lynn’s judgement since it is him you are slandering.]

[lprent: I’m aware of that. I tracked back in the IP’s and links after making that statement.]
Matthew Pilott 75

9 May 2008 at 9:24 am

R0b – I know – my point was that bruv has a cry every time he is in moderation, like many on the right. They assume that it is censorship, so I wanted to pint out that it happens to us filthy Commies as well.

Rattus, Dime called Irish a liar. There’s not much more to it than that. How you can put someone who can’t follow an argument, gets confused and blames it on someone else by questioning their integrity in the same class as Mandela et al – you’re simply talking out your ass. He was not banned for speaking out, anyone with a modicum of intelligence can do so without resorting to accusing someone else of lying when they’re wrong. I doubt you have the ability to see that though, determined as you are to compare dime with…oh, you got me again! Another bloody great joke! And here I was thinking you are being serious. I need to lighten up. Comparing Dime with King… classic. We need more righties with a real sense of humour here, it’s pretty much just Billy and Phil at the moment.
Billy 76

9 May 2008 at 9:44 am

“…it happens to us filthy Commies as well.”

You told me you were a social democrat. I always suspected that was code for “filthy commie”.
Matthew Pilott 77

9 May 2008 at 9:54 am

Rumbled. Drat!

Billy, please note not all commies are filthy, many adhere to perfectly acceptable standards of personal hygiene.

vto – interesting two cents. No doubt in part due to my replying to the comments of various people on this thread, but it can turn away from a decent discussion into something not really worth it in fairly short order. In fact it only takes one or two comments for this to happen.

It’s perfectly understandable that the authors of this blog don’t want this to happen to each and every thread, so I can see quite clearly where they draw the line. Not to be rude, but if you’re happy with some of the crass comments that ruin a thread, well, your standards might be a bit low. It’s not what I come here to read, nor many other people, I suspect.
Jason 78

9 May 2008 at 10:10 am

I thought Idi Amin was dead but judging by the comments implying “I will just make up the rules as I like”, maybe he isn’t.

I am a dairy farmer. Our work situation compells our staff to live on the farm and work alongside me for up to as many as 105 hours a week. In a situation like this, you are not just trying to employ someone to aid in running the farm, you also need to be able to maintain a cordial and hopefully jovial relationship. It is very hard to determine through an interview process weather your initial feelings will be correct. At any stage in my employees contract, they can up and leave, just giving a weeks notice and go to happier fields if thats what they wish. I to, would like 1 opportunity, after 90 days, to be able to do the same thing. The business is mine, the farm likewise, yet because of an ass of a law, I can be locked into a situation whereby I work greater hours then most alongside a non combatible person and live 100 metres away from said employee for a whole 12 months.

Give me the opportunity to have 1 chance to be able to make the same decision that my employee has the right to make at any stage of the contract.

Dime made a very good point, the great majority of employers dont want a high turnover of staff, it just doesnt make good business sence.
big bruv 79

9 May 2008 at 10:16 am

Tane

What repeated smears?…I merely said “not surprising when you consider who pays for this site”

Do you have something to hide Tane?
Tane 80

9 May 2008 at 10:41 am

You’re implying that Helen Clark or Labour pays for our site, as you have in the past. They don’t, Lynn does, and he’s made this very clear. If you want to keep on this line of attack then fine, but don’t expect to get away with it here.
big bruv 81

9 May 2008 at 10:43 am

[Bruv, don’t take me for a fool. One more outburst and you’re banned for a month. For now you’re in moderation.]
Matthew Pilott 82

9 May 2008 at 10:56 am

I think bruv wants to be ‘martyred’ like his mate dime.

Jason, the law is not an ass – it is designed to encourage working relationships, not ensure that people are friends with their boss. You’re saying you want to be able to fire someone, not because they can’t do their job properly, but because you don’t find them ‘compatible’. The law is actually designed to protect employees from that very attitude!

Dime was right with his point that most employers wouldn’t be likely to do that, but those that deal with younger and more vulnerable staff might – the real ass would be enacting a law that allows for the removal of all workplace rights from a specific sector of society.

As for your comparison with a genocidal dictator – you’re an ass. Read the bloody about page if you want the rules.
Jason 83

9 May 2008 at 11:22 am

I’m sorry Matthew, clearly you have the experience of working in a situation where you are working extremely long hours, often in stressful times with someone only then to go home and live a stones throw apart from each other.

Clearly you have expereince that tells you that a compatible working relationship is irrelevant.

I’m going to make an assumption that you have not worked in such an occupation and are therefore unqualified to pass judgement on the dynamics required to make such a working relationship successful.

Note, that I didnt even begin to use examples of where staff are not capable of doing the jobs they have said they are and rather then being able to move them on and finding staff with the required knowledge or ability it is then incumbant on me to have to train them. This is regardless of weather I am actually in a situation where I can offer training.
vto 84

9 May 2008 at 11:28 am

Mr Pilott I think Jason makes a very good point..

Namely that the employee can simply up and off at a moment’s notice leaving the employer and the business completely in the lurch. Yet the employer cannot do the same, or even something remotely similar. That stands out to those out there doing business and employing people as highly unfair.

The pendulum is way out to one side.

Jason’s point re ‘friends’ cf employees is a grey area due to the nature of farming. It is very real and cannot be dismissed as you have done.
big bruv 85

9 May 2008 at 11:31 am

If the hat fits…..

[lprent: bb: I can see from earlier comments that you want to really really want the maytr halo. Are you sure you’re not some kind of fundamentalist? I think that leaving you in moderation here will be interesting. Think of it as an experiment]
Redeye 86

9 May 2008 at 11:44 am

Jason also inadvertantly highlights yet another point. How many ‘potential’ employers don’t become employers, or don’t increase the staff, simply because of the hassle in employing. The often used example of the Physiotherapist struggling with an answer machine in place of a receptionist simply because he doesn’t have the power to try before he buys.

I’m a software developer and currently have the work to employ at least 3 other coders today, but wouldn’t now consider it through previous bad experiences in this regard.

That said; I have seen how some in the hospitality industry in particular treat their employees. Those employees did need some protection.
Matthew Pilott 87

9 May 2008 at 11:49 am

Jason, and vto, if you have a proposal that could give you what you’re after without making thousands of vulnerable workers suceptable to exploitation then I promise you I’m all ears.

The 90 day bill is not that solution.

It might work for you and a few others in your situation (doubtless there are many, many individual similar situations), but the negative implications far outweigh this. Would yor really advocate a law change that could remove all working conditions for thousands of employees across the country, for your own benefit?

How do you propose to change a law that allows you to fire someone because you feel you can’t work with them? How would that not then flow on to make every new employee vulnerable to the whims of their employers? If you make an exception for situations where you give acommodation to the worker, for example, fruit pickers may be without rights as many orchards have live-in workers.

I am not dismissing the problem out of hand, as you say, I’m dismissing the solution – there is a distinction there!

Jason, if your problem is that staff are not fully trained, you make a condition of their employment that they are qualified/experienced. If they are not, then they have lied to you and you have an avenue to cease their employment. Is that a possibility?
AncientGeek 88

9 May 2008 at 11:51 am

Jason: I worked for 6 months in a town supply in my youth. I’d agree with you that it is a rather unique working experience. Especially the thermos tea at 0430. I was working with the share milker as the farm was owned by a lawyer (it was the 70’s – he was after the tax credits).

For me, that was the 18 months that I worked in a lot of places to gain real-world experience, and to decide if going to uni was worth the effort.

I don’t know what it is like now. But then the wages were pretty bad, and the hirelings like me were quite young. I’d come from doing night shift in a factory to a fifth of the income + food and board. I couldn’t imagine wanting to do it as a job for very long, not unless I had some sort of ownership state.

I was having to learn everything at a considerable rate of knots, being a city boy. I was also having to do it while sleep deprived for the first month while my sleep cycles shifted.

I’d be interested in what the wages are like now?
Matthew Pilott 89

9 May 2008 at 11:53 am

Redeye – I agree with the problem you have raised (I mean I agree it is a problem). In the end it is a tough balance to strike.

To be entirely honest with you all, I see the ‘power’ (and please don’t take ‘power’ to mean anything as randal mentioned above) as residing with the employer, so I think the balance needs to be in favour of the employee – that is, after all, why I’m a leftie!
vto 90

9 May 2008 at 11:57 am

Mr Pilott, I gotta go but I still think a trial period would be a suitable solution.

I really struggle to understand the ‘labour movts’ problem with it, especially given the very real problems the lack of a trial period makes for those doing the employing.

And you simply have to believe it when employers say ‘the last thing we want is staff turnover’. It is the truth.
jafapete 91

9 May 2008 at 12:03 pm

Matthew Pilot: “You’re saying you want to be able to fire someone, not because they can’t do their job properly, but because you don’t find them â€˜compatible’. The law is actually designed to protect employees from that very attitude!”

Point of clarification: People can be justifiably sacked for incompatibility. One such case involved an Air Nelson pilot as it happens… no relation I assume.
vto 92

9 May 2008 at 12:04 pm

One more thing Mr Pilott, I used to work as an in-house solicitor for a large NZ company. It involved a great deal of employment law work and problem solving across the company’s hundreds of staff. My experience from that is that the power does not lie completely with the employer. In different areas it lies with one or the other.

In the area of dismissal it lies very heavily with the employee, and that is exactly what is causing potential employers to simply refuse to employ where they can, as Redeye says above. That is also why the issue of a trial period keeps rearing its head.
jafapete 93

9 May 2008 at 12:14 pm

Rattus: “And Matthew, if you take a complaint to the ERA they will chuck it out straight away, and force you to go to mediation. Your Lawyer takes it to the ERA afterwards.”

And this is one of the things about the ERA that works really well. Even the most vociferous employer lobbyists (like Peter Tritt of the EMA Northern) have awarded mediation high marks. You might have noticed, Rattus, that one of the expressed aims of the ERA was to reduce the role that lawyers play in the employment relations. It was the ECA that opened up this pandora’s box, and sadly, it seems difficult to get rid of lawyers once they become involved — like an infestation of cockroaches…

Anyway, the vast majority of cases that go to mediation are resolved quickly and at minimal cost under the present regime. That is why I pointed out that the hypothetical ear-chopping or lies at interview cases probably wouldn’t get to the Authority.

Let’s hope that National are clever enough (should they win) to retain the emphasis on mediation, and continue the search to get rid of lawyers.

Rattus again: “I hate fascists and all they stand for …”

Hmm, and you’re the one who wants the right to sack people without having to demonstrate any reason whatsoever… for, say, joining a union. Very democratic that!
Brett Dale 94

9 May 2008 at 12:18 pm

Dime is 100% correct in his views and should not be banned, but thats the left for you, they can name call, and they can insult someone’s house, they can call people sleazy, but boy you guys on the left are so thinskinned, if someone says something negative about someone on the left, you banned them.

If you start up a business, it should be your right to let an employee go, if things arent working out, its “YOUR BUSINESS AND YOUR MONEY”

It should have nothing to do with any Union.

Bring Back the DIME.
jafapete 95

9 May 2008 at 12:19 pm

“In the area of dismissal it lies very heavily with the employee, and that is exactly what is causing potential employers to simply refuse to employ where they can, as Redeye says above. That is also why the issue of a trial period keeps rearing its head.”

Gosh vto and Redeye, haven’t you noticed the completely unprecedented GROWTH in employment over this period when employers were supposed to be resoultely refusing to employ more staff because they have to justify ithemselves when they want to sack them? Even the drop in employment reported yesterday is disproportionately amongst those who are not in permanent employment (and hence mostly women), it is said.

Sort of gives the lie to your rhetoric doesn’t it?
jafapete 96

9 May 2008 at 12:23 pm

Brett: “If you start up a business, it should be your right to let an employee go, if things arent working out, its “YOUR BUSINESS AND YOUR MONEY’

Yep, that’s called “redundancy”. Dismissal for redundancy is perfectly justified. See your lawyer for more details.
Brett Dale 97

9 May 2008 at 12:26 pm

lprent

This board is suppose to represent free speech, but it seems anyone who has a view that is not in line with Aunty Helen, gets banned.

The treatement of the poster Rattus, Dime and Big Bruv and saying they are the same person is disgusting, why not do a IP check, and then you will see they are different people.

Can anyone on the left tell me why you guys hate free speech??

[lprent: I did, as I’ve commented earlier. I did track them back to a site where they were gloating that they got banned – so I guess they got what they came for.

This is a moderated site – not a free speech site. Free speech sites are commonly full of spam and continuous flamewars, try usenet some time. Read Bruce Simpsons take on it Past its Use(net)-by date?.

The moderation isn’t for ideas – it is for behaviour. If people chose to act in a manner that doesn’t conform within the guidelines of the Policy page, then they will get moderated or banned. It doesn’t sound like you’ve read it]
Brett Dale 98

9 May 2008 at 12:28 pm

I’m not talking redundancy, im talking about firing dumb asses who don’t aren’t up to the job.
vto 99

9 May 2008 at 12:31 pm

jafapete, I said “causing potential employers to simply refuse to employ where they can,”. Note, “where they can”. What you raise introduces a whole pile of other issues into the debate to do with economic growth etc. So no your post does not give ‘lie to the rhetoric’ as you put it.
Brett Dale 100

9 May 2008 at 12:35 pm

Your going to banned Big Bruv for a month????

Your banning the best posters, who start the best debates.

This site reminds me of those nutters who supported Tami Iti when he got arrested on terrorism charges.

They were on the news chanting for people to stand up.

A man on the sidewalk, pointed out that the Police are just doing their job and one of the protesters screamed at the man “Shut up Free Speech”

To tell someone to Shut up and your reason for this is Free Speech, defines the left for me, you guys are 100% for free speech as long as the speech is what you believe in.

[lprent: see my note on your previous comment above]
jafapete 101

9 May 2008 at 12:42 pm

Brett, Thanks for the clarification. See my note above about the messages that you send the remaining staff if you sack people (or engage in other disciplinary action such as giving a warning) arbitrarily.

Unfair and inequitable treatment of any employees has a negative effect on the morale of all employees. So treating employees fairly and equitably pays off and clever employers treat the employees fairly and equitably.

If you were to look closely at the legal requirements for cause in dismissal, you would find that they are no more than a check-list for how to treat employees fairly and reasonably.

After all, employees have a common law duty to act in good faith towards their employers.

Note also that it works both ways, and *not* disciplining a slacker also has a deleterious effect on morale.
Matthew Pilott 102

9 May 2008 at 12:45 pm

jafapete – no such relation! (note the two ‘t’ surname…)

Brett, dime had some fine points. They didn’t get him banned. Don’t be disingenuous and entirely ignore the reason he was banned, you just look like an idiot! Why would you make such a pointless statement, when we know you’re not? “free speech” baselessly calling someone a liar – i’m not sure what your idea of it is Brett, but it’s a pretty peculiar interpretation.

WRT your other point, what kind of society would we live in if people could be fired at whim? How could society function if no one had any jobn security? You obviously have some strong convictions, but I can’t see much evidence you have tested them.

Most companies don’t want high turnover, true vto. Go back (when you have a few spare minutes) and read what Irishbill actually said to dime – he explains the problem of the 90 day bill, that none of you seem willing or able to see. Use your imagination – because no doubt some unscrupulous employers would, and some poor folk would potentially suffer immensely as a result.

vto – there are always excpetions, laws aren’t made for exceptions though.
jafapete 103

9 May 2008 at 12:46 pm

vto: May 9, 2008 at 12:31 pm: “jafapete, I said “causing potential employers to simply refuse to employ where they can,’. Note, “where they can’. What you raise introduces a whole pile of other issues into the debate to do with economic growth etc. So no your post does not give â€˜lie to the rhetoric’ as you put it.”

Gosh, just as well we had the current legal regime over the past decade then, otherwise we’d have been suffering much worse skill shortages than we have! Just think. We’d have had no unemployment at all! After all, those employers holding off would have mopped up the last 3.6% in a flash.

Sorry, vto, your argument doesn’t hold up.
Matthew Pilott 104

9 May 2008 at 12:53 pm

Brett, I’m going to clarify. Not becuse you need me to, because I believe you are pretending you don’t get it, or ignoring the obvious, to make a pathetic point about your interpretation of ‘the left’.

Dime got confused about the 90 day bill. He didn’t understand what Irishbill was saying and said that irish was “making s… up”. Dime was completely wrong, and got his just desserts.

Bruv implied the blog is funded by Labour. This annoyed our friendly sysop, who foots the bill. That’s why he is on moderation.

These two points weren’t hard to follow. If there was a 10 year old handy, I would like to take them through these points to illustrate how easy they are to understand, and that you are probably fully aware of what has gone on, and are simply being obnoxious when you fling around accusations of the left hating free speech.

(on a different note, I had a great moment of juvenile laughter when i saw my cap was “ball deposits”)
vto 105

9 May 2008 at 1:01 pm

jafapete, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

Unless I am missing something I do not see anything in either of your posts that goes anywhere near my points re a trial period. What you have done is spout some stats over changes in employment levels as if they illustrate something about the particular issue.

Try this from one of my posts above..

“I really struggle to understand the â€˜labour movts’ problem with (a trial period), especially given the very real problems the lack of a trial period makes for those doing the employing.”
jafapete 106

9 May 2008 at 1:11 pm

vto: “jafapete, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.”

That’s pun-ishing, I think.

vto: “I really struggle to understand the â€˜labour movts’ problem with (a trial period), especially given the very real problems the lack of a trial period makes for those doing the employing.’

You can look at my earlier post about the British experience, of workers (usually the low paid and most vulnerable workers) being sacked just before the 12 months comes up if you want an insight into the labour movement’s problems with the idea.

You might also look at the Aussie experience of “at will employment” when the so-called workchoices legislation took effect, alluded to by another commenter above. Some employers got carried away and the employer lobby groups and then government quickly had to get employers to lay off laying off until after the election. But by then the damage had been done.

Clever employers wouldn’t do anything much different than the law requires them to anyway, but it’s the others we’re worried about. And they tend to employ the most vulnerable workers.

Got it now?
big bruv 107

9 May 2008 at 1:15 pm

What many from the left hate to admit is that Labour relations in NZ are generally pretty good, 99% of workers are happy with their conditions and most do not see the need to belong to a union.

I worked in the UK for six years, at first I was shocked at the level of naked hostility between workers and management, as time went on I understood why this is the case, the workers expect the worst from Management and the Management expect the worst from the workers and their union, neither side ever seemed to disappoint each other.
vto 108

9 May 2008 at 1:25 pm

No.

Those two examples seem quite different from a short trial period.

In answer to my question you have done what most do – find some extreme examples to bolster ‘their side’ of the argument.

What you are saying is that if there is a trial period employers will simply fire people before the end of the trial period and take advantage of it. That is simply not true (except for exceptionals). What is the advantage in having a high staff turnover? Please tell me.

Look, this issue will not die because as things currently stand it is unbalanced in the employees favour. It will keep coming back and back until it finds an equilibrium. At the moment there is no equilibrium.
Matthew Pilott 109

9 May 2008 at 1:27 pm

Dearest bruv, in fact nothing thrills us more, knowing that workplace laws mean workers get a good deal (with the exception of overall pay rates, which has become an issue as of late), and we sleep the sleep of the contented knowing that Unions’ and Workers’ struggles over the decades have helped making NZ a great place to live and work in. Thanks for pointing that out though, and here I was thinking it’s all doom & gloom from you.
vto 110

9 May 2008 at 1:29 pm

Jafapete, just read your last post again. What you also say is that you are worried about the worst most nasty employers.

Well.. laws in an area like this should never be designed around the worst 1 or 2%. And that is a mistake that the left often make – generate laws around the minor minority which adversely affects the generally good majority. That is a schoolteacher trait which keeps the whole class behind because of the one kid that threw a dart. Hated that approach when I was a kid and hate it now. Cannot see how we would ever agree if that is your approach. Perhaps that is why this particular issue is not resolved yet.
Brett Dale 111

9 May 2008 at 1:31 pm

Matthew Pilott:

The banning of people isn’t consistent though.

A lot worse has been said, by those on the left, and you don’t need a ten year old to figure that out.

[lprent: Read the policy page at the top of the screen. Then you might know what you’re talking about. The key point is disruption and it is a judgement call. For instance it was apparent that Dim’s only purpose here was to disrupt. He spoke without bothering to think about anyones responses, and always went for remarks designed to inflame. In short he was a fire starter.

His comment to irish would have just been rubbished without that previous pattern of behaviour. He ignored warnings about his behaviour. Around here, the ‘left’ and ‘centrists’ usually heed behaviour warnings, so they have less bans and moderation.

This is getting tiresome. If you want to keep whinging – please do it elsewhere.]
Matthew Pilott 112

9 May 2008 at 1:32 pm

vto – do what I said and read irish’s comment, are you deliberately avoiding reading something contrary?

If you are an employer with traditionally high turnover of low-wage vulnerable workers, you hire them on endless ‘trials’ thereby voiding all of their legal workplace rights indefinitely. This solution is worse than the problem!

As I said above, the problem may be real and could do with addressing but this solution is worse than the problem. Your instances are also exceptions, as i also said, and not the rule. law generally has to cater to the rule, not exceptions. We wouldn’t have record unemployment if it was too hard to hire someone, and a majority of employers weren’t bothering!
jafapete 113

9 May 2008 at 1:34 pm

BB: “What many from the left hate to admit is that Labour relations in NZ are generally pretty good, 99% of workers are happy with their conditions and most do not see the need to belong to a union.”

I guess you qualified that so that a leftie like me couldn’t argue that yes, we do acknowledge that employment relations in NZ are generally pretty good, because many of us, in fact, do. Surveys show that NZ workers are generally more satisfied with their influence at work, etc, than are workers in the anglo-american world, with the Brits the least satisfied (as you say).

And whilst you may be strictly correct in saying that “most do not see the need to join a union”, I do hope you have not overlooked my comment yesterday at 9.31am:

Fact: research also shows that in NZ, as elsewhere, a substantial number of those in non-union workplaces say that they would like to join if they could. Around 30%. Most of the rest are indifferent, as one might expect given that (the research shows) these people tend to know little about unions. Very few think that they would be worse off with a workpace union.
Redeye 114

9 May 2008 at 1:35 pm

“AucklandPete: Sort of gives the lie to your rhetoric doesn?t it?”

I take offence at my post being called rhetoric and a lie. They are real examples given.

Which raises another point. If you are really trying induce debate how come Irish is allowed to call other posters liars but no-one is allowed to respond in kind?

[lprent: I don’t consider that to be a personal attack. If you want to prove something isn’t rhetoric, then link to something to backup your point. Whoever it was, was dissing your argument – not you.]
Matthew Pilott 115

9 May 2008 at 1:35 pm

Brett Dale, fine me an example where someone from the left said an author here was lying. Find me an example where someone from the left accused the blog of being run or funded by the Labour Party. Find me and equivalent example if you can.

Don’t you get it? It’s not saying nasty or controversial things that gets you pinged, it’s flaming and such accusations as I mentioned.
Matthew Pilott 116

9 May 2008 at 1:44 pm

vto – was just thinking about your last comment. It seems I’m at a contradiction, in that I state laws shouldn’t be made for exceptions, yet the 90 day bill isn’t alright because of the exceptions.

Bit of a conundrum, but I still stand by my views, that such a law shouldn’t be enacted if the flaws and loopholes are obvious and readily exploitable. This isn’t the case with current law – on one ‘exploits’ it, even though I readily conceed it can make things difficult in certain situations.
jafapete 117

9 May 2008 at 1:44 pm

vto,
I think we both agree that in the employment law area there needs to be some stability around an equilibrium that everybody can live with (even if they are not thrilled with every detail).

I think that we are getting closer to this point. The Nats have sworn off returning to the ECA; and the ERA, you might have noticed, is a long way from the old arbitral system that prevailed before 1991. (See the pingback link above for my views on the ERA.)

One thing that we are really arguing about is the extent of the problem of arbitrary management. You say 1-2%. Hell, the Uiversity of Auckland has been featuring in the news recently for arbitrary sackings, and there’s more I’d like to say… So I think that’s it’s a lot more than 1-2%.

Bottem line. I’d be all for a multi-party conference to see whether there is some common equlilibrium that we could all agree to. Crazy? It’s called tri-partism and it’s how they do things in Europe, for example.
vto 118

9 May 2008 at 1:44 pm

I did read Irish’s comment. Was pretty obvious, but didn;t go to the nub of the issue. But ok then, there are two problems and surely they can both be accomoodated..

Namely, problem for employer is lack of trial period.

Problem for employee is employer using endless trials to void worker rights.

I, and surely you people, can see both of the problems. I don’t deny the problem you describe.

How can the two problems be accommodated? Not quite sure, but both have to be addressed… anyone with a big brain out there? Different trial periods for different sectors perhaps?
jafapete 119

9 May 2008 at 1:51 pm

Redeye: “AucklandPete: Sort of gives the lie to your rhetoric doesn?t it?’ I take offence at my post being called rhetoric and a lie. They are real examples given.

Note the qualification “sort of”. And don’t get so worked up about an expression that doesn’t mean *precisely* what you contrue it to.

Also note that I have been called a lying filthy commie, etc, etc, numerous times on right-wing blogs, and hardly ever complained, if at all. (Can’t remember complaining, but may have.)
big bruv 120

9 May 2008 at 1:52 pm

Matthew

Once again you stretch the truth, workplace relations have improved out of sight since the end of compulsory unionism and the implementation of the employment contracts act.

Giving individual employees the right to negotiate their own contract is always going to result in happier workplace relations, those who are worth more receive it, what a pity our teachers are not allowed to do the same thing.
jafapete 121

9 May 2008 at 1:53 pm

vto: “How can the two problems be accommodated? Not quite sure, but both have to be addressed anyone with a big brain out there? Different trial periods for different sectors perhaps?”

Funnily enough, I was going to suggest soemthing along those lines. But wouldn’t claim to be a big brain.

Shame we’re not responsible for respective party policy in this area…
Matthew Pilott 122

9 May 2008 at 1:54 pm

vto:
Ensure a company could only give an employee one single trial, say within a five year period.

Specifiy a maximum number of trials to fill a role/vacancy.

Have a registration period with the trial so employers abusing or excessively using the system are noted.

Ensure specific/relevant/appropriate reasons are given for a ‘failed’ trial.

Allow for mediation in case of a failed trial.

All of these are totally against the essence of the bill National supported though, and I doubt they would get support from either side. Also note I don’t necessarily support these ideas – just thought I’d throw a few out there.
higherstandard 123

9 May 2008 at 1:56 pm

vto

How about a penalty for the employer of 4 weeks pay (payable to the employee being removed) if they sack someone after the trial period. Would be enough to put most employers off rorting the system (which very few would) conversely if the employee was cak they would also probably be happy to pay this cost to get rid off them.
Matthew Pilott 124

9 May 2008 at 1:57 pm

Note not meant to be ‘registration period’ but a ‘register system’.

Redeye, FTR I don’t think Irish called anyone a liar. he pinged someone for doing so to him…
higherstandard 125

9 May 2008 at 1:59 pm

MP

I like your first 4 points – very nice.

Have been to mediation for some staff we had to remove and agreed it is useful but very dependent on the mediator where there are very different standards in skill.
Matthew Pilott 126

9 May 2008 at 2:01 pm

bruv – Truth streching? Moi? Codswallop!

Interesting claims bruv, have you got anything to shop that the introduction of the ECA led to improved workplace relations? Would be interested in reading a study or survey that showed this.
jafapete 127

9 May 2008 at 2:04 pm

Oh, and Redeye et al., here’s an example of the sort of ordure frequently directed at lefties on the best known right-wing blog in NZ, and about which we don’t whinge. Just posted, you can see the steam rising…

I’m blowing your cover Jafaboy. The days of communists like you and the shameless bludger Phil Whoar being seen as centre left are dying, and I ask everybody out there who reads my posts to think about the need to call a commie a commie, and how it hurts them politically and personally when you do that. Don’t be intimidated by their scorn and attempts at ridicule. Truth will always (eventually) prevail, and to the commies its like a wooden stake thru the heart of a vampire. Never let them win. Remember folks- Truth is all it takes.
vto 128

9 May 2008 at 2:05 pm

ah excellent. Something along those lines…

What are we going to resolve next then?

I know.. when to knock off for the day and quench the thirst, because I aint got much done today carrying on here that’s for sure. And its almost too late to start.
Brett Dale 129

9 May 2008 at 2:06 pm

Mathew Pilott you said:

If you are an employer with traditionally high turnover of low-wage vulnerable workers, you hire them on endless â€˜trials’ thereby voiding all of their legal workplace rights indefinitely. This solution is worse than the problem!

the law will be for one trial, when a person is first hired. the will be no option for endless trials.

Who do you fly for? dimes brother is ex air nelson and currently air New zealand.
jafapete 130

9 May 2008 at 2:08 pm

vto, agreed. Galbraiths at 5pm anyone?
Matthew Pilott 131

9 May 2008 at 2:09 pm

HS, thanks, I can only imagine that is true with the mediator.

There’s always the ‘stick’ approach, but I don’t like it. Have a fee – or maybe a bond is a better term – for a trial (amount of which is dependant on the size of the organisation) that is returned if the trial is successful.

This would encourage employers to only use a trial when necessary, and would mean a decision to employ or not would have to be carefully weighted, but it is unfair in that it penalises employers for getting a dud. Can’t think of a workaround off the top of my head.

Not sure where the bond money would go either – clearly not to the worker, or it would encourage people to fail!
big bruv 132

9 May 2008 at 2:12 pm

Jafa

“vto, agreed. Galbraiths at 5pm anyone?”

Only if you promise that Robinsod will be there
higherstandard 133

9 May 2008 at 2:14 pm

MP

Agreed.

There’s a solution in there somewhere – although I’d like to believe that the majority of employers and employees won’t/don’t have these issues to face.
Matthew Pilott 134

9 May 2008 at 2:14 pm

Brett – wasn’t aware that was in the law – I didn’t think there was a mechanism to prevent it. I.e. you have one trial and it ‘fails’, so you get the same person back for another one. Exploitation of the vulnerable does occur…

I’m no pilot – I almost crashed a place once actually (it was on the ground).

vto – how about whether we keep public control over certain assets…but maybe save it for another day…
Billy 135

9 May 2008 at 2:18 pm

I think Brett’s right, Matthew Pilott. You could not employ the same worker on more thatn one trial.

The potential for abuse is that an employer could employ a series of employees on such trials. But I am just not sure why you’d do that if the employee worked out.
Matthew Pilott 136

9 May 2008 at 2:24 pm

Billy – if it’s for an unskilled job (where it would be hard for it to not work out) you could save a lot in terms of workplace rights – paid leave and so on, that don’t apply in a trial. There is potantial for anti-union and bad-faith activity as well that can’t be discounted. The effects of these need to be fully investigated before going in with the law.
jafapete 137

9 May 2008 at 2:26 pm

Billy, In the UK employers have been known to re-employ the people that they terminate just before the 12 months are up, after a short break. As noted above, the primary reason for doing this is to avoid legal obligations.

They tend to do this because they are running businesses based on price competition, employing low paid, low skill workers whose cooperation is not needed beyond a minimal level of compliance, and because they (the employers) are callous bastards. Think cleaning contractors for a concrete example.

Implicit in what vto suggested earlier is the fact that the problems tend to be concentrated in certain areas. Mass services is the primary area, but there are others such as freight forwarding and universities with [self-censored].
Jason 138

9 May 2008 at 2:42 pm

Getting back to the topic, a trial period is exactly what is needed in at least my profession, farming.

The people against this can not actually put forward any evidence to back up claims that this bill would be abused and that the net effect would be drastically poor on employees.

I am now not employing because of this. Within a 10km radius of me I know of at least 3 other farms who are also not employing as it is not worth the risk to have to spend a whole year with someone who may not prove sutible.

Give us a trial and there would be at least 4 people employed on June 1. As it is, we just arent employing, we will do the extra work ourselves.
Redeye 139

9 May 2008 at 2:50 pm

Mathew can I refer you back to the 4th post of this thread where the Irish bloke says;

“Maw, do you ever make a statement that is based in fact?” If that’s not calling him a liar then you ought to open both eyes.

Never the less, I find it amusing to now be lumped in with the right because I disgagree on this issue. Most other sites I post on lump me in with the lefties.

Politics is not Rugby. You are allowed to look at the issues individually and see the rights and WRONGS of both sides without being some sort of traitor.
big bruv 140

9 May 2008 at 2:53 pm

Billy,

Jafa is right, I worked for a company in the UK that was well known for hiring sales staff for the summer months and giving them the flick as winter set in (I refused to comply with this instruction)

It is simplistic and quite simply wrong to lay the blame for this mentality entirely at the feet of the employers, as I said both sides do not often disappoint each other.

Most of the animosity between workers and management in the UK is the result of union agitation, the staff are brainwashed into believing that all managers are callous bastards and the management are of the opinion that all workers are unionist stirrers.

I well remember telling the owner of the company that I worked for that I was going to shout a few beers and fire up the BBQ every Friday for the staff, the first question he asked me was “how much that was going to cost” the second was “why would you do that?”
Anyway, for the first month I sat there on my own every Friday night, it took about seven months until we had a total buy in from the staff and they began to realise that I was not out to screw them, they also found out that they had a boss that genuinely cared about them.

The end result was that productivity improved out of sight and workplace relations at our branch were the best in the company, we did not lay anybody off come winter and the practice of drinks and a BBQ on Friday still continues to this day.

In many ways that is what happened in NZ with the end of compulsory unionism, workers and staff found out that they were not each others natural enemy and by working together they could both achieve their goals, as one of the chaps who worked with me in the UK said one day he found it much more fun coming to work when he knew that the place was no longer a hot bed of animosity.
Matthew Pilott 141

9 May 2008 at 2:53 pm

Jason, there are a fair few examples on this thread as to how the law could be abused, and jafapete gave a definite example just above.

As I said previously, you’re happy to see a law that could easily lead to exploitation of vulnerable workers enacted for your own benefit? And all this to help you with work that you actually can do yourself? And you are not able to have fixed term contacts (why not make it a three month contract, and then offer them a permanent job if you get along with them??) or any other method of employment at all, given that you’re absorbing the work of four people?
Billy 142

9 May 2008 at 2:56 pm

Matthew, you can’t have a fixed term contract and use it as a trial. The law doesn’t allow you to.
lprent 143

9 May 2008 at 2:57 pm

Jason: “Getting back to the topic”

Topics tend to veer and weave a lot around here. You get used to it eventually. Especially, when they get as many comments as this post has. I should start thinking about a threading system at the client side.

Looking at the comment streams, there does actually appear to almost be an agreement about ideas on this topic emerging. It’d make a first…
Matthew Pilott 144

9 May 2008 at 3:00 pm

redeye – he looks to have been talking about opinion, as opposed to fact. It’s a far cry from accusing someone of making things up to justify a position.

I haven’t ‘lumped you in with the right’, and didn’t think anyone else had either but I may have missed something.

“You are allowed to look at the issues individually and see the rights and WRONGS of both sides without being some sort of traitor”

As you may notice, much of the latter part of this thread has been doing exactly that.
jafapete 145

9 May 2008 at 3:09 pm

Redeye: “Maw, do you ever make a statement that is based in fact?’ If that’s not calling him a liar then you ought to open both eyes.

Based on speculation? Based on sincerely held but misguided prejudice?

I think I know who needs to open his/her eyes, and at least one of them is red.
Jason 146

9 May 2008 at 3:12 pm

I’m not allowed to offer a fixed term contract, tell the employee to leave then re-employ someone new to do the same job. That is illegial.

As for the comment about being able to do the job myself, its not possible, there are trade-offs. The farm doesnt run as smoothly as it should, most days I will barely see my children, come spring I will do about 12-14 weeks nonstop, working on average 13 hours per day. That has an effect on my health and the general happiness of my family.

As for the comment regarding vunerable workers needing protection. Well, I have worked bloody hard for a very long time, took on the risk of starting my own business, put my balls on the line with a big mortgage, it would be nice if there was a law that could give me some scope to be sure I can employ the best people for the job.

Certainly, I have earned that right.

However, we, like many other farmers, have decided we are better off to do this then to put up with the risk of employing someone who is not sutible and then having to be stuck with them for the entire contract, then having to try and find someone else to fill a new job role as we were not able to finish a fixed term contract and employ someone new.

Go and ask a real estate agent why most dairy farmers end up selling thier farms. Staffing issues.
jafapete 147

9 May 2008 at 3:24 pm

BB, I thought you were doing really well until you got to the bit about the ECA. Sorry to be so didactic, but…

1. Unions had a very limited presence in most NZ workplaces prior to the ECA, because that was the nature of the old system (i.e., centralised, bureaucratic). In particular, they had very little presence in smaller workplaces, and that is where deunionisation was greatest after the introduction of the ECA.

2. The ECA was enabling legislation; it did nothing positive to improve workplace relations. Ypour argument is based on a belief that union membership was a barrier to better workplace relations.

3. However, almost all of the drop in union membership over the first 18 months of the ECA was in the mass private sector services, which, you may have noticed from the discussion above, is where the problems have been, continue to be, and probably always will be. Think little shops, restaurants, cafes, service stations, cleaning contractors, rest homes…

4. There is no evidence that workplace relations improved in these mass services workplaces. In fact, we do know that the workers in these workplaces tend to be the ones who would like to join a union but can’t. This suggests that where unionism declined fastest, and to the greatest extent, bad workplace relations persist. There goes your argument!

You need a more nuanced argument, distinguishing between the types of employemnt relations that pertain in different industries, for example. Also, you need to recognise that the unions of today bear little resemblance in most cases to those of twenty years ago.

Now, I don’t want ever again to read about the wonderful ECA promoting good workplace relations.
Matthew Pilott 148

9 May 2008 at 3:26 pm

Billy, Jason – I understood that people did this – hire people on fixed term contracts, but if they like the employee they choose to hire them on a permanent basis, or at least substantially extend their contract. If not, they try with another worker, on a fixed-term basis. I might be wrong about this or confusing it with the use of Temp workers though.

Jason – are workers that bad in the farming sector? It sounds as if there is such a slim chance of getting a decent worker you don’t bother.

At the end of the day, you’re still advocating a law that will have far wider consequences than in the agricultural sector, and seem to be dismissing this out of hand. While it may be a good thing in your area, it won’t just apply to farming.
mondograss 149

9 May 2008 at 3:31 pm

I think it needs to be observed that it’s still a contract based system, therefore what you put in the contract, as long as it’s not completely arbitrary, is enforceable. The farmer guy who complained about staff leaving with 1 weeks notice, could change the contract to have 4 weeks notice. Other skill specific stuff such as ability to build a fence to blah specification, or having a professional demeanour can also be inserted. You just have to make sure that you go through the contract carefully with the prospective employee at the hiring stage.

Then of course you can still have a 90 day trial and if they’ve not met the conditions of the contract and it can be reasonably said that they’re not able to, the relationship can be terminated. But BOTH sides have to make an effort to resolve any issues that come up and good, fair process must still be followed.

Not much you can do if you simply don’t like the person, but heck I’ve hated bosses plenty in the past, been pretty sure they felt the same way about me, and still been able to work with them. Of course I didn’t have to live with them though.
Billy 150

9 May 2008 at 3:36 pm

Matthew Pilott, you used to be able to do it under the ECA, but the ERA contains specific provisions to stop you doing this. You have to have a genuine reason for the fixed term (and, I want to see if you are a good employee doesn’t count) and, once it has expired, you still have to go through the process as if you were sacking them. Very deliberately, this means that there is no benefit to the employer in having the fixed term at all. If you could, no-one would be asking for the 90 day trial thing.
Matthew Pilott 151

9 May 2008 at 3:41 pm

Billy – maybe I’m thinking of a situation involving temps then – because I’m sure this does happen, but having a temping agency in the middle may muddy the waters enough to allow for some form of this to happen. No use in this case, of course.
jafapete 152

9 May 2008 at 3:44 pm

Billy, Yeah, but these provisions are more honoured in the breach…

Not that I am condoning this behaviour, mind.
mondograss 153

9 May 2008 at 3:46 pm

Could use a labour hire company I guess, might be some out there that do agricultural workers and would be amenable to having someone hired permanently off their books. IT contracting can work like that, you hire a contractor through an agency, if they’re good you offer them a permanent role, and a portion of their salary goes to the agency for a fixed period. If they’re no good, you send them back to the agency and ask for someone else.
big bruv 154

9 May 2008 at 3:48 pm

Jafa

You may not want to read about the good things that came out of the ECA but that would be tantamount to sticking your head in the sand.

The ECA means that I could always negotiate my own deal with any prospective employer, I am not bound by some silly union agreed contract that dictates what or how much I can earn, it also means that any workplace can negotiate directly with their employer, if employees are not happy with the deal they have then they always have the right to walk out and find a more generous employer.

[lprent: Huh? I don’t usually note on content errors, but… You can do the same thing under ERA. Don’t join a union and make your own contract with the employer.]

All I and others are arguing is that the employer should have the right to make the same choice within a 90 day period
jafapete 155

9 May 2008 at 4:12 pm

BB: “The ECA means that I could always negotiate my own deal with any prospective employer, I am not bound by some silly union agreed contract that dictates what or how much I can earn, it also means that any workplace can negotiate directly with their employer, if employees are not happy with the deal they have then they always have the right to walk out and find a more generous employer.”

1. Under the old award system, “awards” were minimum terms contracts, and it was usually possible for workers to negotiate better terms and conditions, and very large numbers of them did.

2. You can still do this under the ERA.

3. Very few “workpaces” negotiated directly with their employers, or used bargaining agents other than unions. Unions still did the vast majority of collective bargaining, even after 9 years of the ECA. Why do you think that was, if the alternatives were freely available?

4. A survey that was done a few years ago showed that it is still very much the case that “if employees are not happy with the deal they have then they always have the right to walk out and find a more generous employer” and do. A little known fact is that turnover was very high in NZ historically, and continues to be today, largely because this is a preferred means of dealing with an unsatisfactory employment situation in this country.

As always, references available on request. Also, enough for one day. I will be off to Galbraiths in an hour or so, and have no idea at all where robinsod is, so cannot hope to produce him, for whatever reason.
jafapete 156

9 May 2008 at 4:17 pm

Postscript, you will have noted from earlier posts that my main problem with the ECA is that the most vulnerable workers suffered the most, even before it came into effect in May 1991 (some employers couldn’t wait). You could add a few other things, such as the long-term macro-economic results of embarking on a low pay, low productivity path.

I don’t think the benefits that the ECA might have brought were worth the pain and I do think that there were much better ways to go about providing more flexibility in our labour market. finis
leftie 157

9 May 2008 at 9:37 pm

Whoa…155 posts. It seems that Employment Relations is a hot topic this close to the election. I cant be the only worker who has bad memories of last time National was government.

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I spoke with Substack co-founder yesterday, just before the Trump-Harris debate, about how Substack is doing its thing during the US elections. He talks in particular about how Substack’s focus on paid subscriptions rather than ads has made political debate on the platform calmer, simpler, deeper and more satisfying ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

8 hours ago
Kamala Harris Did Something Unthinkable

Hi,Yesterday me and a bunch of friends gathered in front of the TV, ate tortillas, drank wine, and watched the debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.Some of you may have joined in on the live Webworm chat where we shared thoughts, jokes and memes — and a basic glee ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

8 hours ago
Kamala Harris Did Something Unthinkable

Hi,Yesterday me and a bunch of friends gathered in front of the TV, ate tortillas, drank wine, and watched the debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.Some of you may have joined in on the live Webworm chat where we shared thoughts, jokes and memes — and a basic glee ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

8 hours ago
Kamala Harris Did Something Unthinkable

Hi,Yesterday me and a bunch of friends gathered in front of the TV, ate tortillas, drank wine, and watched the debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.Some of you may have joined in on the live Webworm chat where we shared thoughts, jokes and memes — and a basic glee ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

8 hours ago
David Seymour is such a loser

For paid subscribersNot content with siphoning off $230,000,000 of taxpayers money for his hobby projects - and telling everyone his passion is education and early childcare - an intersection painfully coincidental to the interests of wealthy private families like Sean Plunkett’s1 backers, the Wright Family, Seymour is back in the ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

8 hours ago
Cross-party consensus: there’s no pipeline without good faith

There’s been a lot of talk recently about a cross-party agreement to develop a pipeline for infrastructure, including transport. Last month, outgoing CRL boss Sean Sweeney talked about the importance of securing an enduring infrastructure programme. He outlined the high costs of the relentless political flip-flopping of priorities, which drives ...

Greater AucklandBy Connor Sharp

13 hours ago
Voters love this climate policy they’ve never heard of

This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Karin Kirk The Inflation Reduction Act is the Biden administration’s signature climate law and the largest U.S. government investment in reducing climate pollution to date. Among climate advocates, the policy is well-known and celebrated, but beyond that, only a minority of Americans ...

Skeptical Science

13 hours ago
ACC wants to administer inflation at more than double the RBNZ’s target rate

ACC levies are set to rise at more than double the inflation rate targeted by the RBNZ. Photo: Lynn GrievesonKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Thursday, September 12:The state-owned monopoly for accident insurance wants ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

13 hours ago
Harris vs Trump

We’ve been selected to rock your asses 'til midnightThis is my term, I've shaved off my perm, but it's alrightI solemnly swear to uphold the ConstitutionGot a rock 'n' roll problem? Well we got a solutionLet us be who we am, and let us kick out the jams, yeahKick out ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

14 hours ago
Treaty Bill “a political stunt”

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon appears to have given ACT Leader David Seymour more than he has been admitting in the proposals to go forward with a Treaty Principles Bill.All along, Luxon has maintained that the Government is proceeding with the Bill to honour the coalition agreement.But that is quite specific.It ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

16 hours ago
An average 219 NZers migrated each day in July

Kia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Wednesday, September 11:Annual migration of New Zealanders rose to a record-high 80,963 in the year to the end of July, which is more than double its pre-Covid levels.Two ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 day ago
What you’re wanting to win more than anything is The Narrative

Hubris is sitting down on election day 2016 to watch that pig Trump get his ass handed to him, and watching the New York Times needle hover for a while over Hillary and then move across to Trump where it remains all night to your gathering horror and dismay. You're ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

1 day ago
National’s automated lie machine

The government has a problem: lots of people want information from it all the time. Information about benefits, about superannuation, ACC coverage and healthcare, taxes, jury service, immigration - and that's just the routine stuff. Responding to all of those queries takes a lot of time and costs a lot ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

1 day ago
Christopher Luxon: A Man of “Faith” and “Compassion” Speaks on the Treaty Pr...

Synopsis: Today - we explore two different realities. One where National lost. And another - which is the one we are living with here. Note: the footnote on increased fees/taxes may be of interest to some readers.Article open.Subscribe nowIt’s an alternate timeline.Yesterday as news broke that the central North Island ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

1 day ago
Member’s Day

Today is a Member's Day. First up is the third reading of Dan Bidois' Fair Trading (Gift Card Expiry) Amendment Bill, which will be followed by the committee stage of Deborah Russell's Family Proceedings (Dissolution for Family Violence) Amendment Bill. This will be followed by the second readings of Katie ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

1 day ago
Northern Expressway Boondoggle

Transport Minister Simeon Brown has been soaring high with his hubris of getting on and building motorways but some uncomfortable realities are starting to creep in. Back in July he announced that the government was pushing on with a Northland Expressway using an “accelerated delivery strategy” The Coalition Government is ...

Greater AucklandBy Matt L

2 days ago
Never Enough

However much I'm falling downNever enoughHowever much I'm falling outNever, never enough!Whatever smile I smile the mostNever enoughHowever I smile I smile the mostSongwriters: Robert James Smith / Simon Gallup / Boris Williams / Porl ThompsonToday in Nick’s Kōrero:A death in the Emergency Department at Rotorua Hospital.A sad homecoming and ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

2 days ago
Question Two of The Kākā Project of 2026 for 2050 (TKP 26/50)

Kia ora.Last month I proposed restarting The Kākā Project work done before the 2023 election as The Kākā Project of 2026 for 2050 (TKP 26/50), aiming to be up and running before the 2025 Local Government elections, and then in a finalised form by the 2026 General Elections.A couple of ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

2 days ago
Why is God Obsessed with Spanking?

Hi,If you’ve read Webworm for a while, you’ll be aware that I’ve spent a lot of time writing about horrific, corrupt megachurches and the shitty men who lead them.And in all of this writing, I think some people have this idea that I hate Christians or Christianity. As I explain ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

2 days ago
Inside the public service

In 2023, there were 63,117 full-time public servants earning, on average, $97,200 a year each. All up, that is a cost to the Government of $6.1 billion a year. It’s little wonder, then, that the public service has become a political whipping boy castigated by the Prime Minister and members ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

2 days ago
New Models Show Stronger Atlantic Hurricanes, and More of Them

This is a re-post from This is Not Cool Here’s an example of some of the best kind of climate reporting, especially in that it relates to impacts that will directly affect the audience. WFLA in Tampa conducted a study in collaboration with the Department of Energy, analyzing trends in ...

Skeptical Science

2 days ago
Where ever do they find these people?

A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma, is how Winston Churchill described the Soviet Union in 1939. How might the great man have described the 2024 government of New Zealand, do we think? I can't imagine he would have thought them all that mysterious or enigmatic. I think ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

2 days ago
Motorway madness

How mad is National's obsession with roads? One of their pet projects - a truck highway to Whangārei - is going to eat 10% of our total infrastructure budget for the next 25 years: Official advice from the Infrastructure Commission shows the government could be set to spend 10 ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

2 days ago
Our transport planning system is fundamentally broken

Ever since Wayne Brown became mayor (nearly two years ago now) he’s been wanting to progress an “integrated transport plan” with the government – which sounded a lot like the previous Auckland Transport Alignment Project (ATAP) with just a different name. It seems like a fair bit of work progressed ...

Greater AucklandBy Matt L

3 days ago
Thou Shalt Not Steal

And they taught usWhoa-oh, black woman, thou shalt not stealI said, hey, yeah, black man, thou shalt not stealWe're gonna civilise your black barbaric livesAnd we teach you how to kneelBut your history couldn't hide the genocideThe hypocrisy to us was realFor your Jesus said you're supposed to giveThe oppressed ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

3 days ago
How mismanagement, not wind and solar energy, causes blackouts

This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections In February 2021, several severe storms swept across the United States, culminating with one that the Weather Channel unofficially named Winter Storm Uri. In Texas, Uri knocked out power to over 4.5 million homes and 10 million people. Hundreds of Texans died as a ...

Skeptical Science

3 days ago
The ‘Infra Boys’ Highway to Budget Hell

Chris Bishop has enthusiastically dubbed himself and Simeon Brown “the Infra Boys”, but they need to take note of the sums around their roading dreams. Photo: Lynn GrievesonMōrena. Long stories short, here’s my top six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Tuesday, September ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

3 days ago
Media Link: “AVFA” on the politics of desperation.

In this podcast Selwyn Manning and I talk about what appears to be a particular type of end-game in the long transition to systemic realignment in international affairs, in which the move to a new multipolar order with different characteristics … Continue reading → ...

KiwipoliticoBy Pablo

3 days ago
The cost of flying blind

Just over two years ago, when worries about immediate mass-death from covid had waned, and people started to talk about covid becoming "endemic", I asked various government agencies what work they'd done on the costs of that - and particularly, on the cost of Long Covid. The answer was that ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

3 days ago
Seymour vs The Clergy

For paid subscribers“Aotearoa is not as malleable as they think,” Lynette wrote last week on Homage to Simeon Brown:In my heart/mind, that phrase ricocheted over the next days, translating out to “We are not so malleable.”It gave me comfort. I always felt that we were given an advantage in New ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

3 days ago
Unstoppable Minister McKee

All smiles, I know what it takes to fool this townI'll do it 'til the sun goes downAnd all through the nighttimeOh, yeahOh, yeah, I'll tell you what you wanna hearLeave my sunglasses on while I shed a tearIt's never the right timeYeah, yeahSong by SiaLast night there was a ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

3 days ago
Could outdoor dining revitalise Queen Street?

This is a guest post by Ben van Bruggen of The Urban Room,.An earlier version of this post appeared on LinkedIn. All images are by Ben. Have you noticed that there’s almost nowhere on Queen Street that invites you to stop, sit outside and enjoy a coffee, let alone ...

Greater AucklandBy Guest Post

4 days ago
Hipkins challenges long-held Labour view Government must stay below 30% of GDP

Hipkins says when considering tax settings and the size of government, the big question mark is over what happens with the balance between the size of the working-age population and the growing number of Kiwis over the age of 65. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāMōrena. Long stories short; here’s ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

4 days ago
Your invite to Webworm Chat (a bit like Reddit)

Hi,One of the things I love the most about Webworm is, well, you. The community that’s gathered around this lil’ newsletter isn’t something I ever expected when I started writing it four years ago — now the comments section is one of my favourite places on the internet. The comments ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

4 days ago
Seymour’s Treaty bill making Nats nervous

A delay in reappointing a top civil servant may indicate a growing nervousness within the National Party about the potential consequences of David Seymour’s Treaty Principles Bill. Dave Samuels is waiting for reappointment as the Chief Executive of Te Puni Kokiri, but POLITIK understands that what should have been a ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

4 days ago
2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #36

A listing of 34 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, September 1, 2024 thru Sat, September 7, 2024. Story of the week Our Story of the Week is about how peopele are not born stupid but can be fooled ...

Skeptical Science

4 days ago
Time for a Change

You act as thoughYou are a blind manWho's crying, crying 'boutAll the virgins that are dyingIn your habitual dreams, you knowSeems you need more sleepBut like a parrot in a flaming treeI know it's pretty hard to seeI'm beginning to wonderIf it's time for a changeSong: Phil JuddThe next line ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

4 days ago
Security Politics in Peripheral Democracies: Excerpt Six.

The “double shocks” in post Cold War international affairs. The end of the Cold War fundamentally altered the global geostrategic context. In particular, the end of the nuclear “balance of terror” between the USA and USSR, coupled with the relaxation … Continue reading → ...

KiwipoliticoBy Pablo

4 days ago
Buried deep

Here's a bike on Manchester St, Feilding. I took this photo on Friday night after a very nice dinner at the very nice Vietnamese restaurant, Saigon, on Manchester Street.I thought to myself, Manchester Street? Bicycle? This could be the very spot.To recap from an earlier edition: on a February night ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

5 days ago
Security Politics in Peripheral Democracies, Excerpt Five.

Military politics as a distinct “partial regime.” Notwithstanding their peripheral status, national defense offers the raison d’être of the combat function, which their relative vulnerability makes apparent, so military forces in small peripheral democracies must be very conscious of events … Continue reading → ...

KiwipoliticoBy Pablo

5 days ago
Leadership for Dummies

If you’re going somewhere, do you maybe take a bit of an interest in the place? Read up a bit on the history, current events, places to see - that sort of thing? Presumably, if you’re taking a trip somewhere, it’s for a reason. But what if you’re going somewhere ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

5 days ago
Home again

Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on anything you may have missed. Share Read more ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

6 days ago
Dead even tie for hottest August ever

Long stories short, here’s the top six news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above between Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer:The month of August was 1.49˚C warmer than pre-industrial levels, tying with 2023 for the warmest August ever, according ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

6 days ago
The Hoon around the week to Sept 7

The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers on Thursday night features co-hosts and talking about the week’s news with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent on the latest climate science on rising temperatures and the debate about how to responde to climate disinformation; and special guest ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

6 days ago
Have We an Infrastructure Deficit?

An Infrastructure New Zealand report says we are keeping up with infrastructure better than we might have thought from the grumbling. But the challenge of providing for the future remains.I was astonished to learn that the quantity of our infrastructure has been keeping up with economic growth. Your paper almost ...

PunditBy Brian Easton

6 days ago
Councils reject racism

Last month, National passed a racist law requiring local councils to remove their Māori wards, or hold a referendum on them at the 2025 local body election. The final councils voted today, and the verdict is in: an overwhelming rejection. Only two councils out of 45 supported National's racist agenda ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

6 days ago
Homage to Simeon Brown

Open to all - happy weekend ahead, friends.Today I just want to be petty. It’s the way I imagine this chap is -Not only as a political persona. But his real-deal inner personality, in all its glory - appears to be pure pettiness & populist driven.Sometimes I wonder if Simeon ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

6 days ago
Government of deceit

When National cut health spending and imposed a commissioner on Te Whatu Ora, they claimed that it was necessary because the organisation was bloated and inefficient, with "14 layers of management between the CEO and the patient". But it turns out they were simply lying: Health Minister Shane Reti’s ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

6 days ago
The professionals actually think and act like our Government has no fiscal crisis at all

Treasury staff at work: The demand for a new 12-year Government bond was so strong, Treasury decided to double the amount of bonds it sold. Photo: Lynn GrievesonMōrena. Long stories short; here’s my top six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Friday, September ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

6 days ago
Weekly Roundup 6-September-2024

Welcome to another Friday and another roundup of stories that caught our eye this week. As always, this and every post is brought to you by the Greater Auckland crew. If you like our work and you’d like to see more of it, we invite you to join our regular ...

Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland

7 days ago
Security Politics in Peripheral Democracies; Excerpt Four.

Internal versus external security. Regardless of who rules, large countries can afford to separate external and internal security functions (even if internal control functions predominate under authoritarian regimes). In fact, given the logic of power concentration and institutional centralization of … Continue reading → ...

KiwipoliticoBy Pablo

7 days ago
A Hole In The River

There's a hole in the river where her memory liesFrom the land of the living to the air and skyShe was coming to see him, but something changed her mindDrove her down to the riverThere is no returnSongwriters: Neil Finn/Eddie RaynerThe king is dead; long live the queen!Yesterday was a ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

7 days ago
Bright Blue His Jacket Ain’t But I Love This Fellow: A Review and Analysis of The Rings of Power E...

My conclusion last week was that The Rings of Power season two represented a major improvement in the series. The writing’s just so much better, and honestly, its major problems are less the result of the current episodes and more creatures arising from season one plot-holes. I found episode three ...

A Phuulish FellowBy strda221

7 days ago
Who should we thank for the defeat of the Nazis

As a child in the 1950s, I thought the British had won the Second World War because that’s what all our comics said. Later on, the films and comics told me that the Americans won the war. In my late teens, I found out that the Soviet Union ...

Open ParachuteBy Ken

1 week ago
Skeptical Science New Research for Week #36 2024

Open access notables Diurnal Temperature Range Trends Differ Below and Above the Melting Point, Pithan & Schatt, Geophysical Research Letters: The globally averaged diurnal temperature range (DTR) has shrunk since the mid-20th century, and climate models project further shrinking. Observations indicate a slowdown or reversal of this trend in recent decades. ...

Skeptical Science

1 week ago
Join us for the weekly Hoon on YouTube Live at 5pm

Photo by Jenny Bess on UnsplashCome and join us for our weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm.Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream for our chat about the week’s news with special guests:5.00 pm - 5.10 pm - Bernard and ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 week ago
Media Link: Discussing the NZSIS Security Threat Report.

I was interviewed by Mike Hosking at NewstalkZB and a few other media outlets about the NZSIS Security Threat Report released recently. I have long advocated for more transparency, accountability and oversight of the NZ Intelligence Community, and although the … Continue reading → ...

KiwipoliticoBy Pablo

1 week ago
How do I make this better for people who drive Ford Rangers?

Home, home again to a long warm embrace. Plenty of reasons to be glad to be back.But also, reasons for dejection.You, yes you, Simeon Brown, you odious little oik, you bible thumping petrol-pandering ratfucker weasel. You would be Reason Number One. Well, maybe first among equals with Seymour and Of-Seymour ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

1 week ago
A missed opportunity

The government introduced a pretty big piece of constitutional legislation today: the Parliament Bill. But rather than the contentious constitutional change (four year terms) pushed by Labour, this merely consolidates the existing legislation covering Parliament - currently scattered across four different Acts - into one piece of legislation. While I ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

1 week ago
Nicola Willis Seeks New Sidekick To Help Fix NZ’s Economy

Synopsis:Nicola Willis is seeking a new Treasury Boss after Dr Caralee McLiesh’s tenure ends this month. She didn’t listen to McLiesh. Will she listen to the new one?And why is Atlas Network’s Taxpayers Union chiming in?Please consider subscribing or supporting my work. Thanks, Tui.About CaraleeAt the beginning of July, Newsroom ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

1 week ago
Inflation alive and kicking in our land of the long white monopolies

The golden days of profit continue for the the Foodstuffs (Pak’n’Save and New World) and Woolworths supermarket duopoly. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāMōrena. Long stories short; here’s my top six things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Thursday, September 5:The Groceries Commissioner has ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 week ago
The thermodynamics of electric vs. internal combustion cars

This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler I love thermodynamics. Thermodynamics is like your mom: it may not tell you what you can do, but it damn well tells you what you can’t do. I’ve written a few previous posts that include thermodynamics, like one on air capture of ...

Skeptical Science

1 week ago
Security Politics in Peripheral Democracies: Excerpt Three.

The notion of geopolitical “periphery.” The concept of periphery used here refers strictly to what can be called the geopolitical periphery. Being on the geopolitical periphery is an analytic virtue because it makes for more visible policy reform in response … Continue reading → ...

KiwipoliticoBy Pablo

1 week ago
Venus Hum

Fill me up with soundThe world sings with me a million smiles an hourI can see me dancing on my radioI can hear you singing in the blades of grassYellow dandelions on my way to schoolBig Beautiful Sky!Song: Venus Hum.Good morning, all you lovely people, and welcome to the 700th ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

1 week ago
I Went to a Creed Concert

Note: The audio attached to this Webworm compliments today’s newsletter. I collected it as I met people attending a Creed concert. Their opinions may differ to mine. Read more ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

1 week ago
Government migration policy backfires; thousands of unemployed nurses

The country has imported literally thousands of nurses over the past few months yet whether they are being employed as nurses is another matter. Just what is going on with HealthNZ and it nurses is, at best, opaque, in that it will not release anything but broad general statistics and ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

1 week ago
A Time For Unity.

Emotional Response: Prime Minister Christopher Luxon addresses mourners at the tangi of King Tuheitia on Turangawaewae Marae on Saturday, 31 August 2024.THE DEATH OF KING TUHEITIA could hardly have come at a worse time for Maoridom. The power of the Kingitanga to unify te iwi Māori was demonstrated powerfully at January’s ...

Bowalley Road

1 week ago
Climate Change: Failed again

National's tax cut policies relied on stealing revenue from the ETS (previously used to fund emissions reduction) to fund tax cuts to landlords. So how's that going? Badly. Today's auction failed again, with zero units (of a possible 7.6 million) sold. Which means they have a $456 million hole in ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

1 week ago
Security Politics in Peripheral Democracies: Excerpt Two.

A question of size. Small size generally means large vulnerability. The perception of threat is broader and often more immediate for small countries. The feeling of comparative weakness, of exposure to risk, and of potential intimidation by larger powers often … Continue reading → ...

KiwipoliticoBy Pablo

1 week ago
Nicola Willis’s Very Unserious Bungling of the Kiwirail Interislander Cancellation

Open to all with kind thanks to all subscribers and supporters.Today, RNZ revealed that despite MFAT advice to Nicola Willis to be very “careful and deliberate” in her communications with the South Korean government, prior to any public announcement on cancelling Kiwirail’s i-Rex, Willis instead told South Korea 26 minutes ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

1 week ago
Satisfying the Minister’s Speed Obsession

The Minister of Transport’s speed obsession has this week resulted in two new consultations for 110km/h speed limits, one in Auckland and one in Christchurch. There has also been final approval of the Kapiti Expressway to move to 110km/h following an earlier consultation. While the changes will almost certainly see ...

Greater AucklandBy Matt L

1 week ago
What if we freed up our streets, again?

This guest post is by Tommy de Silva, a local rangatahi and freelance writer who is passionate about making the urban fabric of Tāmaki Makaurau-Auckland more people-focused and sustainable. New Zealand’s March-April 2020 Level 4 Covid response (aka “lockdown”) was somehow both the best and worst six weeks of ...

Greater AucklandBy Guest Post

1 week ago

Potential intelligence sharing with Israel must be investigated

Concerns have been raised that our spy arrangements may mean that intelligence is being shared between Aotearoa and Israel. An urgent inquiry must be launched in response to this. ...

Greens

3 hours ago
Release: Charter schools undermine our education system

The Government is taking a wrecking ball to our public education system by reinstating charter schools. ...

Labour Blog

6 hours ago
Youngest MP to travel to Canada to accept Politician of the Year Award

Aotearoa’s Youngest Member of Parliament, and Te Pāti Māori MP, Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke, will travel to Montreal to accept the One Young World Politician of the Year Award next week. The One Young World Politician of the Year Award was created in 2018 to recognise the most promising young politicians between ...

Māori Party

8 hours ago
Greens celebrate huge step forward for ADHD community

The Greens welcome today’s long-coming announcement by Pharmac of consultation to remove the special authority renewal criteria for methylphenidate, dexamfetamine and modafinil and to fund lisdexamfetamine. ...

Greens

9 hours ago
Release: Millions to be spent dividing NZ for no reason

The National Party is wasting millions of dollars allowing David Seymour’s Treaty Principals Bill to be drafted and go to Select Committee. ...

Labour Blog

11 hours ago
Release: New Zealanders departing our shores at a record rate

The Migration figures released by Stats NZ today show National is continuing to drive Kiwis away from New Zealand in record numbers. ...

Labour Blog

12 hours ago
Te Tai Tokerau MP Slams Govt Overreach in Scrapping Māori Wards

Mema Paremata for Te Tai Tokerau, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi, has reflected on the decisions made by the councils of the North amidst the government’s push to remove Māori Wards and weaken mana whenua representation. “Actions taken by the Kaipara District Council to remove Māori Wards are the embodiment of the eradication ...

Māori Party

22 hours ago
Govt already seeking advice on Treaty referendum

On one hand, the Prime Minister has assured Aotearoa that his party will not support the Treaty Principles Bill beyond first reading, but on the other, his Government has already sought advice on holding a referendum on our founding document. ...

Greens

1 day ago
Release: Aged care will be worse off if redesign rushed

New Zealanders needing aged care support and the people who care for them will be worse off if the Government pushes through a flawed and rushed redesign of dementia and aged care. ...

Labour Blog

1 day ago
Release: Govt fails hundreds of workers as mills close

Labour is devastated at news hundreds of workers are set to lose their jobs following the closure of Winstone Pulp mills. ...

Labour Blog

1 day ago
Job losses from mill closures consequence of Govt inaction

Hundreds of jobs lost as a result of pulp mill closures in the Ruapehu District are a consequence of government inaction in addressing the shortfalls of our electricity network. ...

Greens

2 days ago
Ngarewa-Packer devastated for Ruapehu following WPI closure

Te Pāti Māori Co-Leader and MP for Te Tai Hauāuru is devastated for the Ruapehu community following today’s decision to close two Winstone Pulp mills. “My heart goes out to all the workers, their whānau, and the wider Ruapehu community affected by the closure of Winstone Pulp International,” said Ngarewa-Packer. ...

Māori Party

2 days ago
Release: Cabinet should stop the Treaty Principles Bill

National Party Ministers have a majority in Cabinet and can stop David Seymour’s Treaty Principles Bill, which even the Prime Minister has described as “divisive and unhelpful.” ...

Labour Blog

3 days ago
Release: Staff gagged to keep fast track list secret

The National Government is so determined to hide the list of potential projects that will avoid environmental scrutiny it has gagged Ministry for the Environment staff from talking about it. ...

Labour Blog

3 days ago
Release: Labour challenges Te Whatu Ora gag orders

Labour has complained to the Te Kawa Mataaho Public Service Commission about the high number of non-disclosure agreements that have effectively gagged staff at Te Whatu Ora Health NZ from talking about anything relating to their work. ...

Labour Blog

3 days ago
Greens call on Treaty Principles Bill to be abandoned after letter from Christian leaders

The Green Party is once again urging the Prime Minister to abandon the Treaty Principles Bill as a letter from more than 400 Christian leaders calls for the proposed legislation to be dropped. ...

Greens

4 days ago
Sign the petition: Keep military-style firearms off our streets

Help us tell the Government that reintroducing military-style firearms should not be up for debate. ...

Labour Blog

5 days ago
Vast majority of councils support Māori wards

Councils across the country have now decided where they stand regarding Māori wards, with a resounding majority in favour of keeping them in what is a significant setback for the Government. ...

Greens

6 days ago
Release: Government on the wrong side of Māori wards

The National-led government has been given a clear message from the local government sector, as almost all councils reject the Government’s bid to treat Māori wards different to other wards. ...

Labour Blog

6 days ago
Release: Labour congratulates Kuīni Ngā Wai hono i te po Paki

The Labour Party congratulates Kuīni Ngā Wai hono i te po Paki on being crowned as the eighth Te Ariki Nui – head of Te Kiingitanga. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Green Party welcomes new Maaori Kuiini

The Green Party welcomes the coronation of the new Maaori Kuiini, Te Arikinui Nga Wai Hono i te Po, today in Turangawaewae. ...

Greens

1 week ago
ECE teachers deserve better than this Government

The Green Party is unsurprised but disappointed by today’s announcement from the Government that will see our Early Childhood Centre teachers undermined and pay parity pushed further out of reach. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Urgent intervention needed on supermarkets

The Green Party is calling on the Government to intervene in the supermarket duopoly dominating our supply of groceries following today’s report from the Commerce Commission. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Release: Rainbow youth neglected in mental health funding

Labour backs the call from The Rainbow Support Collective members for mental health funding specifically earmarked for grassroots and peer led community organisations to be set up in a way that they are able to access. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Release: Transport in NZ has to be more than just roads

As expected, the National Land Transport Programme lacks ambition for our cities and our country’s rail network and puts the majority of investment into roads. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Speech: Barbara Edmonds Building Nations 2024

Tēnā koutou katoa, Thank you for your warm welcome and for having my colleagues and I here today. Earlier you heard from the Labour Leader, Chris Hipkins, on our vision for the future of infrastructure. I want to build on his comments and provide further detail on some key elements ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Govt transport plan deepens fossil fuel fix

The Green Party says the Government’s new National Land Transport Programme marks another missed opportunity to take meaningful action to fight the climate crisis. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Greens call for public to back Wrybill in BOTY and beyond

The Green Party is calling on the public to support the Ngutu Pare Wrybill not just in this year’s Bird of the Year competition but also in pushing back against policies that could lead to the destruction of its habitat and accelerate its extinction. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Building consents data bad news for construction

News that the annual number of building consents granted for new homes fell by more than 20 percent for the year ended July 2024, is bad news for the construction industry. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Te Pāti Māori Pay Tribute to Kiingi Tūheitia Pōtatau Te Wherowhero VII

Papā te whatitiri, hikohiko te uira, i kanapu ki te rangi, i whētuki i raro rā, rū ana te whenua e. Uea te pou o tōku whare kia tū tangata he kapua whakairi nāku nā runga o Taupiri. Ko taku kiri ka tōkia ki te anu mātao. E te iwi ...

Māori Party

2 weeks ago
Release: Gaps still to be addressed in callouts response

The Government must guarantee New Zealanders will not be at risk after making changes to the way mental health callouts are handled. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Poroporoaki: Kiingi Tuheitia passing

Haere e te Kīngi o te kotahitangi Haere ki o nui, ki o rahi I te pō ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Green Party pays respects to Kiingi Tuuheitia

The Green Party is paying tribute to the Māori King, Kiingi Tuuheitia Pootatau Te Wherowhero XVII, after he passed away earlier this morning. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Potaka Brings Whakaata Māori to its Knees

Today’s Whakaata Māori announcement is yet another colossal failure from Minister Potaka, who has turned his back on te reo Māori, forcing a channel offline, putting whānau out of jobs, and cutting Māori content, says Te Pāti Māori. “A Senior Māori Minister has turned his back on Te Reo Māori. ...

Māori Party

2 weeks ago
Release: National restricts access to disability care homes

With disability communities still reeling from the diminishing of Whaikaha, a leaked document now reveals another blow with National restricting access to residential care homes. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Release: Govt must help save 230 manufacturing jobs

Labour is calling on the Government and Mercury Energy to find a solution to the proposed Winstone Pulp mill closure and save 230 manufacturing jobs. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Govt shirks its responsibility to Whakaata Māori

The Green Party has called out the Government for allowing Whakaata Māori to effectively collapse to a shell of its former self as job cuts and programming cuts were announced at the broadcaster today. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
NZ First Member’s Bill To Disestablish Auckland Transport

Today New Zealand First has introduced a Member’s Bill that will restore democratic control over transport management in Auckland City by disestablishing Auckland Transport (AT) and returning control to Auckland Council. The ‘Local Government (Auckland Council) (Disestablishment of Auckland Transport) Amendment Bill’ intends to restore democratic oversight, control, and accountability ...

NZ First Press Release

2 weeks ago
Release: PM fails in constitutional role and leadership

The failure of the Prime Minister to condemn his Minister for personally attacking the judiciary is another example of this Government riding roughshod over important constitutional rules. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Waititi urges Rotorua Lakes Council to immediately stop works at Lake Rotokākahi

Te Pāti Māori co-leader and Member of Parliament for Waiariki, which includes Rotorua, has written to Rotorua Lakes Councillors requesting they immediately stop sewerage piping works at Lake Rotokākahi in Rotorua. “Mana whenua have been urging Rotorua Lakes Council to stop works and look at alternative plans to protect the ...

Māori Party

2 weeks ago

New Bill to crack down on youth vaping

The coalition Government has introduced legislation to tackle youth vaping, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello announced today. “The Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Amendment Bill (No 2) is aimed at preventing youth vaping. “While vaping has contributed to a significant fall in our smoking rates, the rise in youth vaping ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 hours ago
Interest in agricultural and horticultural products regulatory review welcomed

Regulation Minister David Seymour, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds, and Food Safety Minister Andrew Hoggard have welcomed interest in the agricultural and horticultural products regulatory review. The review by the Ministry for Regulation is looking at how to speed up the process to get farmers and growers access to the safe, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 hours ago
Bill to allow online charity lotteries passes first reading

Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government is moving at pace to ensure lotteries for charitable purposes are allowed to operate online permanently. Charities fundraising online, such as those run by the Heart Foundation, Coastguard NZ, Auckland Rescue Helicopter Trust and local hospices will continue to do ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

5 hours ago
Tax exempt threshold changes to benefit startups

Technology companies are among the startups which will benefit from increases to current thresholds of exempt employee share schemes, Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins and Revenue Minister Simon Watts say. Tax exempt thresholds for the schemes are increasing as part of the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2024-25, Emergency ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

5 hours ago
Getting the healthcare you need, when you need it

The path to faster cancer treatment, an increase in immunisation rates, shorter stays in emergency departments and quick assessment and treatments when you are sick has been laid out today. Health Minister Dr Shane Reti has revealed details of how the ambitious health targets the Government has set will be ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

9 hours ago
Targeted supports to accelerate reading

The coalition Government is delivering targeted and structured literacy supports to accelerate learning for struggling readers. From Term 1 2025, $33 million of funding for Reading Recovery and Early Literacy Support will be reprioritised to interventions which align with structured approaches to teaching. “Structured literacy will change the way children ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

9 hours ago
Survivors invited to Abuse in Care national apology

With two months until the national apology to survivors of abuse in care, expressions of interest have opened for survivors wanting to attend. “The Prime Minister will deliver a national apology on Tuesday 12 November in Parliament. It will be a very significant day for survivors, their families, whānau and ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

11 hours ago
Rangatahi inspire at Ngā Manu Kōrero final

Ehara taku toa i te toa takitahi, engari he toa takitini kē - My success is not mine alone but is the from the strength of the many. Aotearoa New Zealand’s top young speakers are an inspiration for all New Zealanders to learn more about the depth and beauty conveyed ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

12 hours ago
Driving structured literacy in schools

The coalition Government is driving confidence in reading and writing in the first years of schooling. “From the first time children step into the classroom, we’re equipping them and teachers with the tools they need to be brilliant in literacy. “From 1 October, schools and kura with Years 0-3 will receive ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Labour’s misleading information is disappointing

Labour’s misinformation about firearms law is dangerous and disappointing, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee says. “Labour and Ginny Andersen have repeatedly said over the past few days that the previous Labour Government completely banned semi-automatic firearms in 2019 and that the Coalition Government is planning to ‘reintroduce’ them. ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Govt takes action on mpox response, widens access to vaccine

The Government is taking immediate action on a number of steps around New Zealand’s response to mpox, including improving access to vaccine availability so people who need it can do so more easily, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti and Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. “Mpox is obviously a ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Next steps agreed for Treaty Principles Bill

Associate Justice Minister David Seymour says Cabinet has agreed to the next steps for the Treaty Principles Bill. “The Treaty Principles Bill provides an opportunity for Parliament, rather than the courts, to define the principles of the Treaty, including establishing that every person is equal before the law,” says Mr Seymour. “Parliament ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Government unlocking potential of AI

Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins today announced a programme to drive Artificial Intelligence (AI) uptake among New Zealand businesses. “The AI Activator will unlock the potential of AI for New Zealand businesses through a range of support, including access to AI research experts, technical assistance, AI tools and resources, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Government releases Wairoa flood review findings

The independent rapid review into the Wairoa flooding event on 26 June 2024 has been released, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell announced today. “We welcome the review’s findings and recommendations to strengthen Wairoa's resilience against future events,” Ms ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Promoting faster payment times for government

The Government is sending a clear message to central government agencies that they must prioritise paying invoices in a timely manner, Small Business and Manufacturing Minister Andrew Bayly says. Data released today promotes transparency by publishing the payment times of each central government agency. This data will be published quarterly ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Acknowledgement to Kīngi Tuheitia speech

E te māngai o te Whare Pāremata, kua riro māku te whakaputa i te waka ki waho moana. E te Pirimia tēnā koe.Mr Speaker, it is my privilege to take this adjournment kōrero forward. Prime Minister – thank you for your leadership. Taupiri te maunga Waikato te awa Te Wherowhero ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Interim fix to GST adjustment rules to support businesses

Inland Revenue can begin processing GST returns for businesses affected by a historic legislative drafting error, Revenue Minister Simon Watts says. “Inland Revenue has become aware of a legislative drafting error in the GST adjustment rules after changes were made in 2023 which were meant to simplify the process. This ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Strong uptake for cervical screening self-test

More than 80 per cent of New Zealand women being tested have opted for a world-leading self-test for cervical screening since it became available a year ago. Minister of Health Dr Shane Reti and Associate Minister Casey Costello, in her responsibility for Women’s Health, say it’s fantastic to have such ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Ministry for Regulation’s first Strategic Intentions document sets ambitious direction

Regulation Minister David Seymour welcomes the Ministry for Regulation’s first Strategic Intentions document, which sets out how the Ministry will carry out its work and deliver on its purpose. “I have set up the Ministry for Regulation with three tasks. One, to cut existing red tape with sector reviews. Two, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Māori Education Advisory Group established

The Education Minister has established a Māori Education Ministerial Advisory Group made up of experienced practitioners to help improve outcomes for Māori learners. “This group will provide independent advice on all matters related to Māori education in both English medium and Māori medium settings. It will focus on the most impactful ways we can lift ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Government welcomes findings of NZ Superannuation Fund review

The Government has welcomed the findings of the recent statutory review into the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation and the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, Minister of Finance Nicola Willis says. The 5-yearly review, conducted on behalf of Treasury and tabled in Parliament today, found the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
First of five new Hercules aircraft takes flight

Defence Minister Judith Collins today welcomed the first of five new C-130J-30 Hercules to arrive in New Zealand at a ceremony at the Royal New Zealand Air Force’s Base Auckland, Whenuapai. “This is an historic day for our New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) and our nation. The new Hercules fleet ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Have your say on suicide prevention

Today, September 10 is World Suicide Prevention Day, a time to reflect on New Zealand’s confronting suicide statistics, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “Every death by suicide is a tragedy – a tragedy that affects far too many of our families and communities in New Zealand. We must do ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Action to grow the rural health workforce

Scholarships awarded to 27 health care students is another positive step forward to boost the future rural health workforce, Associate Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “All New Zealanders deserve timely access to quality health care and this Government is committed to improving health outcomes, particularly for the one in five ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Pharmac delivering more for Kiwis following major funding boost

Associate Health Minister with responsibility for Pharmac David Seymour has welcomed the increased availability of medicines for Kiwis resulting from the Government’s increased investment in Pharmac. “Pharmac operates independently, but it must work within the budget constraints set by the Government,” says Mr Seymour. “When our Government assumed office, New ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Sport Minister congratulates NZ’s Paralympians

Sport & Recreation Minister Chris Bishop has congratulated New Zealand's Paralympic Team at the conclusion of the Paralympic Games in Paris. “The NZ Paralympic Team's success in Paris included fantastic performances, personal best times, New Zealand records and Oceania records all being smashed - and of course, many Kiwis on ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Government progresses response to Abuse in Care recommendations

A Crown Response Office is being established within the Public Service Commission to drive the Government’s response to the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care. “The creation of an Office within a central Government agency was a key recommendation by the Royal Commission’s final report. “It will have the mandate ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago
Passport wait times back on-track

Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says passport processing has returned to normal, and the Department of Internal Affairs [Department] is now advising customers to allow up to two weeks to receive their passport. “I am pleased that passport processing is back at target service levels and the Department ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago
New appointments to the FMA board

Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister has today announced three new appointments and one reappointment to the Financial Markets Authority (FMA) board. Tracey Berry, Nicholas Hegan and Mariette van Ryn have been appointed for a five-year term ending in August 2029, while Chris Swasbrook, who has served as a board member ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago
District Court judges appointed

Attorney-General Hon Judith Collins today announced the appointment of two new District Court judges. The appointees, who will take up their roles at the Manukau Court and the Auckland Court in the Accident Compensation Appeal Jurisdiction, are: Jacqui Clark Judge Clark was admitted to the bar in 1988 after graduating ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago
Government makes it faster and easier to invest in New Zealand

Associate Minister of Finance David Seymour is encouraged by significant improvements to overseas investment decision timeframes, and the enhanced interest from investors as the Government continues to reform overseas investment. “There were about as many foreign direct investment applications in July and August as there was across the six months ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago
New Zealand to join Operation Olympic Defender

New Zealand has accepted an invitation to join US-led multi-national space initiative Operation Olympic Defender, Defence Minister Judith Collins announced today. Operation Olympic Defender is designed to coordinate the space capabilities of member nations, enhance the resilience of space-based systems, deter hostile actions in space and reduce the spread of ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 week ago
Government commits to ‘stamping out’ foot and mouth disease

Biosecurity Minister Andrew Hoggard says that a new economic impact analysis report reinforces this government’s commitment to ‘stamp out’ any New Zealand foot and mouth disease incursion. “The new analysis, produced by the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research, shows an incursion of the disease in New Zealand would have ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 week ago
Improving access to finance for Kiwis

5 September 2024 The Government is progressing further reforms to financial services to make it easier for Kiwis to access finance when they need it, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Financial services are foundational for economic success and are woven throughout our lives. Without access to finance our ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 week ago
Prime Minister pays tribute to Kiingi Tuheitia

As Kiingi Tuheitia Pootatau Te Wherowhero VII is laid to rest today, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has paid tribute to a leader whose commitment to Kotahitanga will have a lasting impact on our country. “Kiingi Tuheitia was a humble leader who served his people with wisdom, mana and an unwavering ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 week ago
Resource Management reform to make forestry rules clearer

Forestry Minister Todd McClay today announced proposals to reform the resource management system that will provide greater certainty for the forestry sector and help them meet environmental obligations. “The Government has committed to restoring confidence and certainty across the sector by removing unworkable regulatory burden created by the previous ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 week ago
More choice and competition in building products

A major shake-up of building products which will make it easier and more affordable to build is on the way, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Today we have introduced legislation that will improve access to a wider variety of quality building products from overseas, giving Kiwis more choice and ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 week ago
Joint Statement between the Republic of Korea and New Zealand 4 September 2024, Seoul

On the occasion of the official visit by the Right Honourable Prime Minister Christopher Luxon of New Zealand to the Republic of Korea from 4 to 5 September 2024, a summit meeting was held between His Excellency President Yoon Suk Yeol of the Republic of Korea (hereinafter referred to as ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 week ago
Comprehensive Strategic Partnership the goal for New Zealand and Korea

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Republic of Korea, Yoon Suk Yeol. “Korea and New Zealand are likeminded democracies and natural partners in the Indo Pacific. As such, we have decided to advance discussions on elevating the bilateral relationship to a Comprehensive ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 week ago
International tourism continuing to bounce back

Results released today from the International Visitor Survey (IVS) confirm international tourism is continuing to bounce back, Tourism and Hospitality Minister Matt Doocey says. The IVS results show that in the June quarter, international tourism contributed $2.6 billion to New Zealand’s economy, an increase of 17 per cent on last ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 week ago

Treasury urged govt to scrap Gumboot Friday funding, delay changes to tax package

Investment was "better directed to preventative initiatives", officials said ahead of this year's Budget. ...

Radio NZ – political

49 mins ago
Sneesby’s resignation from Nine points to host of problems besetting commercial TV networks

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Denis Muller, Senior Research Fellow, Centre for Advancing Journalism, The University of Melbourne Mike Sneesby’s resignation as chief executive of the Nine Entertainment Company completes a cleanout at the top of an organisation besieged by the consequences of cultural toxicity. These consequences ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

1 hour ago
Ministry for Regulation sets out timetable for action

The new ministry has laid out some time frames for getting things done. ...

Radio NZ – political

2 hours ago
Farm fences trouble turtles in search of water. Here’s how to help

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Eric Nordberg, Senior Lecturer (Applied Ecology and Landscape Management), University of New England Eric Nordberg Freshwater turtles live in farm dams, creeks and wetlands across Australia. They often travel over land when these wetlands or farm dams dry up, or during ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 hours ago
Kids under 13 use social media. How can parents help keep them safe online?

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Karley Beckman, Senior Lecturer in Digital Technologies for Learning, University of Wollongong Luiza Kamalova/Shutterstock , CC BY Earlier this week, the federal government announced it is going to introduce a social media ban for children. It hasn’t nominated a minimum ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 hours ago
Aged care reform: self-funded retirees and part-pensioners to pay more as government aims to shore u...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Self-funded retirees and many part pensioners will pay more for their aged care under the government’s reform package, endorsed by the opposition and announced on Thursday. The changes involve a $930 million extra spend ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 hours ago
Instead of banning kids from online spaces, here’s what we should offer them instead

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amanda Third, Co-Director, Young and Resilient Research Centre/Professorial Research Fellow, Institute for Culture and Society, Western Sydney University Banning children under 16 from social media sounds like a seductive idea. For overwhelmed parents navigating their kids’ lives in a digital age, this ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

3 hours ago
Age care changes will hit self-funded retirees and many part pensioners to sustain the system long t...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Self-funded retirees and many part pensioners will pay more for their aged care under the government’s reform package, endorsed by the opposition and announced on Thursday. The changes involve a $930 million extra spend ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

3 hours ago
New polling: half of Australians want gambling ads banned entirely; LNP has big Queensland lead

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne A national Resolve poll for Nine newspapers, conducted September 3–7 from a sample of 1,614 people, gave Labor a 51–49% lead using ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

4 hours ago
Facebook has scraped public data from Australian users without an opt out. What can we do?

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Heather Ford, Associate Professor, University of Technology Sydney vectorfusionart/Shutterstock Facebook acknowledged in a Senate inquiry yesterday that it is scraping the public photos of Australian users to train its artificial intelligence (AI) models. Facebook’s parent company Meta claims this excludes ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

4 hours ago
Long-overdue Australian privacy law reform is here – and it’s still not fit for the digital era

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katharine Kemp, Associate Professor, Faculty of Law & Justice; Lead, UNSW Public Interest Law & Tech Initiative, UNSW Sydney Wirestock Creators/Shutterstock Almost four years since the Privacy Act review commenced, the Australian government has introduced a reform bill that fails to ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

4 hours ago
Which gut drugs might end up in a lawsuit? Are there really links with cancer and kidney disease? Sh...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nial Wheate, Professor and Director – Academic Excellence, Macquarie University Doucefleur/Shutterstock Common medicines used to treat conditions including heartburn, reflux, indigestion and stomach ulcers may be the subject of a class action lawsuit in Australia. Lawyers are exploring whether long-term use ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

4 hours ago
PNG’s Marape remains PM after no confidence vote against him fails

By Scott Waide, RNZ Pacific PNG correspondent Papua New Guinea’s Prime Minister James Marape has successfully thwarted a vote of no confidence after 75 MPs backed him and 32 voted for the opposition. But the session was not without drama. Just after 10am, after the opposition leader moved a motion ...

Evening ReportBy Asia Pacific Report

4 hours ago
In sports-mad Australia, new research suggests physical education can be undervalued at school

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Casey Peter Mainsbridge, Senior Lecturer in Personal Devlopment, Health and Physical Education, University of New England WBMUL/Shutterstock Sport is a significant part of Australian culture and for many represents national pride and social connection. So, it would be fair to ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

5 hours ago
The House: Analysing government answers on guns

Even when ministers are trying not to answer questions, they frequently give away a lot of information, writes Phil Smith for The House. ...

Radio NZ – political

5 hours ago
‘Insane, ridiculous and gross’: Under the skin of local body horror Grafted

Alex Casey talks to the creative team behind Grafted, a skin-crawling new local body horror. There’s a crumbling empty McMansion somewhere in Coatesville that became the “beating heart” of new local body horror Grafted, director Sasha Rainbow tells me. “When you walked in there, it had this creepy feeling, like ...

The SpinoffBy Alex Casey

6 hours ago
NZ concern over China-linked Pacific cyber breach

The Government is concerned by news of a cyber attack linked to the Chinese government against the Pacific Islands Forum secretariat , with the Asian superpower vehemently denying the claims.Newsroom understands the forum secretariat called in Australian cybersecurity experts in February over a potential cyber attack against its network.After investigating ...

NewsroomBy Sam Sachdeva

6 hours ago
Alex Greenwich’s defamation win against Mark Latham shows political spite is not above the law

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rick Sarre, Emeritus Professor of Law and Criminal Justice, University of South Australia Independent Sydney MP Alex Greenwich has been awarded $140,000 in his defamation suit against One Nation New South Wales leader Mark Latham over a homophobic tweet. Latham posted ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

6 hours ago
Auckland Mayor Wayne Brown proposes Point Chevalier-North Shore bridge

Wayne Brown is urging the government to build bridge from Pt Chevalier to the North Shore. ...

Radio NZ – political

7 hours ago
Should school nurses weigh students? We asked 5 experts

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Fron Jackson-Webb, Deputy Editor and Senior Health Editor Drazen Zigic/Shutterstock One in four Australian children aged two to 17 are classified as above a healthy weight, based on their body mass index (or BMI, which is weight divided by height squared). ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

8 hours ago
Understanding risks for Australia of China’s slowing economy is Chalmers’ top priority at upcomi...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Laurenceson, Director and Professor, Australia-China Relations Institute (ACRI), University of Technology Sydney SURKED/Shutterstock When Treasurer Jim Chalmers travels to Beijing later this month, he and his counterpart at China’s peak economic agency, the National Development and Reform Commission, won’t be ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

8 hours ago
Kid Snow takes a stab at exploring masculinity in the gritty outback, but fails to land

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gemma Blackwood, Lecturer, Media, University of Tasmania Madman Director Paul Goldman’s new Australian film Kid Snow is set in the gritty, male-dominated world of tent boxing in outback Western Australia. The film presents itself as a reflection on the intergenerational ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

8 hours ago
Darleen Tana says Greens broke own constitution by asking her to resign

Lawyers for the former Green Party MP are making their case that she was ejected from the party unlawfully. ...

Radio NZ – political

8 hours ago
The inside scoop on being a teenager in a 700-person town

Phitcha, the star of the latest episode of Takeout Kids, tells Alex Casey about coming of age in the small tourist town of Akaroa. It’s very hard not to be charmed by Akaroa, the small Banks Peninsula town with a population of just 770 people. Best known for frolicking dolphins, ...

The SpinoffBy Alex Casey

8 hours ago
Single-sex or co-ed? How to pick the right school for your child

While some academic results might put single-gender schools in the lead, there is much more to consider than test results. ...

Radio NZ – political

8 hours ago
Blowing the dust off NZ’s ‘founding documents’ reveals the hold they still have on today’s T...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paul Moon, Professor of History, Auckland University of Technology Getty Images There is power in paper. Anyone who denies the potency of history’s dusty documents needs only look at the current incendiary debates over proposed legislation tackling the “principles” of the ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

8 hours ago
New ministry spending more than $400,000 on contractors

A new ministry set up to slash red tape spent more than $400,000 on contractors in six months. ...

Radio NZ – political

9 hours ago
Māori health leaders demand government kill Treaty Principles Bill

Māori health leaders are calling on the government to scrap the Treaty Principles Bill, fearing it will lead to even less equitable healthcare. ...

Radio NZ – political

9 hours ago
Former Cabinet minister Aussie Malcolm dies

The former National MP and businessman was 83. ...

Radio NZ – political

9 hours ago
Was the Trump-Harris debate an election game-changer?

An in-control Kamala Harris won the night by baiting her opponent into increasingly incoherent rage. And then Taylor Swift weighed in. This is an excerpt from The World Bulletin, our weekly global current affairs newsletter exclusively for Spinoff Members. Sign up here. Trump takes the bait The debate’s first question ...

The SpinoffBy Catherine McGregor

9 hours ago
Watch: Health Minister announces details on government’s new health targets

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Workers be careful, says Aussie Unionist

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