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World War?

Written By: - Date published: 1:39 pm, April 7th, 2017 - 221 comments
Categories: International, Syria, war - Tags: , ,

So, it seems the neo-cons are having their way. According to The Guardian – I dare say there are plenty of other sources – the US is now launching cruise missile strikes in Syria, targeting military installations.

CNN reports that the missile launches took place around an hour ago, at 8.45 ET – that would have been 3.45am in Syria. The targets at the military airbase included runways, aircraft and fuel points.

Live update feed

This won’t end well.

221 comments on “World War?”

  1. LivinInTheBay 1

    60 cruise missile by all accounts.

    It will be interesting to see how Putin reacts to this.

    • Maui 1.1

      This is how real sarin attacks are dealt with, using full-body positive-pressure hazmat suits. The scenes are from the attack on the Tokyo subway several years back.


      Evidence from Russian sources suggest it was either chlorine products. Alternatively it was more of the phosphine agents Lizzie Phelan reported on the liberation of Aleppo.

      Read more at https://syrianperspective.com/2017/04/terrorists-and-supporters-growing-ever-desperate-as-syrian-army-breaks-the-back-of-the-siege-in-dayr-el-zor-syrian-army-about-to-liberate-hilfaayaa-and-move-to-eradicate-british-cockroaches-in-lataki.html#Hjsx0tX67XcgodmG.99

    • D'Esterre 1.2

      LivinInTheBay: “It will be interesting to see how Putin reacts to this.”

      The US attack is a catastrophe. Our best hope is that Russia at least can be grownup. No chance of that from Trump and the neocons. Iran is right: the US is the great satan.

      I hope that we here can keep our heads down below the parapet.

      • WILD KATIPO 1.2.1

        Why ?… why be naive about it?

        Why be scared its going to escalate into some sort of conflagration when its clearly a controlled backburning?

        Why not view it from a geopolitical vantage point instead?

        • D'Esterre

          Wild Katipo: “Why ?… why be naive about it?

          Why be scared its going to escalate into some sort of conflagration when its clearly a controlled backburning?

          Why not view it from a geopolitical vantage point instead?”

          I’m pleased for you that you can take such a dispassionate view. I’ve seen events of this sort before; it never ends well for the unfortunates on the ground, and the deleterious consequences reverberate throughout subsequent years. I won’t bother listing them: they’re easily enough searchable.

          Here we have the US leaping to catastrophic judgement on an event about which it – and we – do not have full knowledge. Ask who benefits from the precipitating event, whatever it was? Certainly not Syria, which is well on the way to breaking the back of the jihadist conflict. Who has chemical weapons? Not Syria: it surrendered them to the US and Russia several years ago.

          I’m reminded of the weapons of mass destruction myth all those years ago; despite the fact that Iraq had been enduring a sanctions regime that prevented it from acquiring the wherewithal to manufacture such weapons, the west – in particular the US and UK – trumpeted their existence. An illegal invasion and a huge number of deaths told us what many of us already knew: there were no WMDs, and nor could there have been. The disaster of Iraq continues to ripple throughout the ME. And throughout the world, as we know only too well….

          • WILD KATIPO

            Exactly .

            And that is the lie.

            As I’ve said,… it was an agreed on path for several reasons. Its not dispassionate – its cynical. And its also to allay fears of a a world war three. It aint gonna happen.

            Its a backburning exercise. Not a conflagration. The weapons of mass destruction was the same. Fabrication. And that’s the point I’m making .You’ve had the fake news. You’ve had the bogus reasons for entering Iraq. What more do you want?

            Work it out.

            Or else join the queue’s sucking up the fake news narrative that is being splashed around the globe by the MSM as we speak and continue sucking up to the lie.

            See some of my comments further down the post to see what Im getting at.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            Who has chemical weapons? Not Syria: it surrendered them to the US and Russia several years ago.

            You do realise that it’s possible to manufacture them, eh.

            A number of production pathways can be used to create sarin. The final reaction typically involves attachment of the isopropoxy group to the phosphorus with an alcoholysis with isopropyl alcohol. Two variants of this process are common. One is the reaction of methylphosphonyl difluoride with isopropyl alcohol


            • One Anonymous Bloke

              PS: always assuming Syria didn’t just lie about relinquishing their chemical weapons.

            • Draco T Bastard

              Yes, they can be manufactured – and the US can always lie as it did to justify its invasion of Iraq and Vietnam.

              Going on past evidence it’s the US that’s lying.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                I hate to break it to you, but truth is the first casualty of government. The US is nothing special in this regard.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  I hate to break it to you, but truth is the first casualty of government.

                  No, it’s the first casualty of hierarchy.

                • Morrissey

                  Actually, the U.S. is in a Super League of its own when it comes to lying campaigns. You would know that if you actually knew anything about what you’re talking about.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Thanks Morrissey, I was so wrong about duplicity and governments until you set me straight with your infinite experience of reading the internet.

            • D'Esterre

              OAB: “You do realise that it’s possible to manufacture them, eh.”

              No kidding, Chester….

              The question is why it would have done so. And – critically – why it would use such weapons now, if it had them, given the fact that the tide of war has turned in its favour. In 2013, it surrendered them, and the US was involved in their destruction. If it has no such weapons, ergo, it cannot have used any.

              On the other hand, we have evidence that ISIS has been stockpiling and using chemical weapons. This latest incident has the hallmarks of a false flag attack, designed to white-ant the peace process.

              People should by now be aware of how much propganda regarding Syria that we’re being exposed to. Be sceptical of everything that casts the Assad government in a bad light; we really have little idea how much of it is true.

              And in the meantime, people have died – again – in another unsanctioned attack by the US. Insanity….

        • Draco T Bastard

          From a geopolitical perspective the US just committed the greatest of all war crimes by attacking a sovereign nation.

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            If the Syrian air force used chemical weapons, I don’t care who degrades their capacity to do.

            If the US has evidence that links the use of Sarin gas to these targets, in common law it’s legal to use force in defence of others. Is it legal for a state to use force to prevent a war crime?

            If not why not?

            As to whether the USA is anyone’s idea of global police, yeah nah. Global Jon Graham Burge more like.

            • DS

              >> Is it legal for a state to use force to prevent a war crime?


              Force must either be self-defence or authorised by the UN Security Council.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                The USA’s lawyers will no doubt argue that the proliferation of chemical weapons is a clear and present danger to the USA. If they can back that up with evidence that connects the use of Sarin gas to this particular airfield, then what?

                • DS

                  Nothing – the US is not a signatory to the ICC, so is under no obligation to extradite those responsible to the Hague, while it would cheerfully veto any attempt by the Security Council to hold it accountable. Basically, it’s the Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction nonsense all over again, with even less justification (nukes are destructive on a massive scale, chemical weapons may be incredibly cruel are actually very ineffective at destroying anything outside a very localised area).

                  So what you would have instead is the Tony Blair precedent – certain people have to be rather careful where they travel lest they face prosecution.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    …whereupon their lawyers would argue as above.

                    Assuming Assad is the perpetrator, the only valid objection raised thus far is the unilateral nature of the strike.

                    • DS

                      And, assuming they were being tried, the argument would not fly. The case law regarding self defence is clear – you need a crystalised threat (a la the Arab states readying to attack Israel in 1967) that leaves no other option. Another state possessing or using weapons (a la Iraq or Syria) does not constitute self-defence.

                      The unilateral nature of the strike is indeed the problem. If the US strike were signed off by the UN, there would be no problem. As it is, it is illegal.

            • D'Esterre

              OAB: “If the Syrian air force used chemical weapons, I don’t care who degrades their capacity to do.

              If the US has evidence that links the use of Sarin gas to these targets, in common law it’s legal to use force in defence of others. Is it legal for a state to use force to prevent a war crime?”

              Give it up: you’re on the wrong side of the argument here. Draco T Bastard is dead right. Also DS below.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Draco says the attacking another country’s military airbase is the “greatest” of war crimes. Personally I think genocide and mass rape (for example) are far worse.

                You’re entitled to your opinion, of course.

      • Rightly or Wrongly 1.2.2

        A catastrophe?

        A week ago many on the left were clambering for action about the possibility of the death of a 3yr old girl in Afghanistan.

        In Syria dozens of people are gassed to death (including 27 children) and now there is manufactured angst over the US holding Assad to account?

        Don’t Syrians matter? They did a couple of years ago when the left wanted Europe to absorb millions of them – what has changed?

        Or is it the case that a truism of the left is that Trump is the devil and so anything he does is evil even if its the right thing to do?

        Wasn’t that long ago Trump was being accused of of being too friendly with the Russians – now the left is scared Trump will set off war with Russia?

        I think that he has done the right thing sending a message to Assad that chemical warfare is unacceptable – especially against civilians.

        • WILD KATIPO

          The difference is that YOU , – like so many on the Left who you accuse of doing,… are naively confusing domestic politics with geopolitical politics and how ‘ bargaining ‘ for self interest is done.

          And trying to draw similarities between the two.

          The incident in Afghanistan is a matter for New Zealand , the integrity of its current govt and its Defense Force – and whether the ICC sees merit in conducting an investigation – something we in NZ have direct control over.

          What has happened in Syria we have less control over bar not getting involved.

        • Draco T Bastard

          In Syria dozens of people are gassed to death (including 27 children) and now there is manufactured angst over the US holding Assad to account?

          He’s not holding Assad to account. He’s merely attacking blindly.

          Or is it the case that a truism of the left is that Trump is the devil and so anything he does is evil even if its the right thing to do?

          War crimes, as he just carried out, are not the right thing to do.

          I think that he has done the right thing sending a message to Assad that chemical warfare is unacceptable

          He didn’t send that message though. He sent the message that no matter if he knows the facts or not he will attack.

          It’s nothing more than Gunboat Diplomacy – do as I say or I’m going to blow the shit out of you.

        • Barry

          Thanks R or W – the most sensible post on this topic

      • reason 1.2.3

        Lets hope D’Esterre ….otherwise The blood hounds are on the loose again …….. Genocide is in the air

        “When discussing the US in terms of international relations any balanced discussion should center around its illegal acts of aggression, its use of covert violence to impose brutally repressive regimes on victim populations, and its overwhelming predominance as a source of structural violence causing immiseration and death on an unimaginable scale.

        One might object that surely these alleged genocides are then, at best, debatable. That’s the puzzle though; these are not debatable genocides, they are rather blatant. Carpet-bombing; fire-storms; nuclear explosions; massacres from the air, massacres on the ground; whole populations poisoned for generations to come; death -squad killings of community leaders. political leaders, union leaders, intellectuals. artists. teachers; economic destruction; cultural destruction; terror, torture and violent death used to traumatize whole populations and destroy the social fabric of nations. These are all well documented behaviors. How does it come to be that these patterns of behavior could be seen as anything but genocidal. What else could they be?” …. Kieran Robert Kelly ” The context of Iraq Genocide ” 2012

        Pity the people of the middle east …. and their children

    • Poission 1.3

      It will be interesting to see how Putin reacts to this.

      He was notified prior,congress was not.

    • billmurray 1.4


      I believe that Putin will state that Assad was not responsible and that Russia will still support his Presidency.

      Excellent article by Chris Trotter currently on Bowally Road, I think Chris hits the nail.

      Scary shit is happening.

      Link – http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/

  2. Yup,… there goes the Trump / Putin love in…

    Oh well…. sit back and enjoy whats left…

    FLEETWOOD MAC – Oh Well (1969 UK TV Performance … – YouTube
    Video for oh well fleetwood mac you tube▶ 2:39

  3. Conducted while hosting President Xi. Clear implications for NK relationship.

  4. Carolyn_nth 4

    Al Jazeera is reporting that Trump said the security of the US is at stake…. say what???!!!

    When I was watching AJ English earlier, a commentator said that air strikes will achieve little, but that it would need boots on the ground. Basically, air strikes are a brutally, inhumane cosmetic exercise.

    AJ journo James Bays is now saying it’s a “punitive” attack.

    Russia was warned so there would be no Russian casualty.

    • Keith 4.1

      The security of weapon manufacturer shareholder returns was what he meant!

      • paul andersen 4.1.1

        nailed it.

        • paul andersen

          buy shares in the cruise missile company (maybe northrop)

          • paul andersen

            don the con probably borrowed russian rubles to buy some shares

            • paul andersen

              vladimir will get the cruise missile technology through this, lol

              • Draco T Bastard

                Why would he want to? Russian missile tech is already as good as, if not better, than that of the US.

                • McFlock

                  maybe, maybe not, but everyone has their strengths and weaknesses and tweaks.

                  Always useful to see what’s in the other guy’s hand

                  • dukeofurl

                    The russians were leaders in this sort of missile technology from the Khrushchev era.
                    The first ship sunk by a cruise missile was the israeli destroyer Elat, hit by russian missiles launched by Egypt.

                    • McFlock

                      Yeah, but they also have different design philosophies. Their missile cruisers in the caspian, for example.

                      I mean, there’s probably a significant amount of design convergence (a bit like how a lot of new assault rifles are beginning to look the same these days, as opposed to the significant external and internal differences between the AKM and M16), but at the same time do they have different ways of approaching navigation problems? Have the yanks figured a counter to point defense systems, like maybe jinking and dropping decoys upon passive detection of rapid cannon fire?

                      It’s not like they’d turn down a peek

                    • dukeofurl

                      You dont know what you are talking about. the kalibr missiles can be launched from a range of vessels. Some were fired from subs and a frigate in the Med.
                      The Caspain sea is landlocked so it has smaller sized vessels.

                    • McFlock

                      So you agree with me that the ships in the Caspian are not really consistent with US approaches, which is all I fucking said on that matter?

                    • dukeofurl

                      You still haven’t clarified your claim of ‘ different design philosophies’- what ever that means.
                      For both countries , these sort of winged missiles can be launched by ships, submarines, aircraft.
                      ( INF treaty rules out land launched)
                      Russia has used covettes in Caspian and Med, frigates and submarines ( and I think some of its Bombers but I havent checked)

                      Different versions mean they can be vertically launched ( like US) or from sub tubes or aircraft.

                      Just saying you ‘didnt realise that’ is sufficient , mistakes do happen you know!

                    • McFlock

                      Well, for a slightly more detailed explanation look here. Knew I’d read it somewhere.

                      But if you can’t put the words “design” and “philosophy” together to form a coherent meaning, that’s not actually my fault, so stop pretending it is.

                      Device, especially weapon, evolution is frequently the result of common problems being solved from different perspectives. Some solutions are universally obvious.

                      wings+guidance+power+warhead goes all the way back to the V1, even the Kettering Bug.

                      Other solutions might not be: fuel mix, maybe a better star mapper using a filtered wavelength to see the stars through thicker cloud. Maybe manufacturing to different tolerances makes a change.

                      But I guess the best example of differing design philosophies was when nazi designers were asked to match the Russian T34 tank. Threw out most of the things that made it cheap to mass produce, resulted in an outstanding if unreliable behemoth that couldn’t be produced in decent numbers to change the course of the war. Whereas if they’d just cloned the t34, they would have made more of them and put off the inevitable

      • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2


  5. exkiwiforces 5

    Well, it was going to happen sooner or later regardless who was POTUS.

    • Maui 5.1

      It could be the start of of a larger strategy, but what intrigues me is that Hilary frames it in psycho-analytic terms implicating Putin “dead fathers looming presence and his delusion” and telling us “that is how Putin thinks”. Thanks Hilary, lets see how far that gets anyone in a chess tournament ..

    • lprent 5.2

      … regardless who was POTUS

      Yes. Last time the Sarin attacks happened against civilian population in rebel held areas, Syria got out of retribution from the US and others because Russia brokered a deal whereby Syria renounced chemical weapons and supposedly destroyed them.

      However it doesn’t look to me that they did. Yes there has been chlorine attacks from Syrian planes without significiant retribution. But no apparent nerve agents.

      Certainly I can’t see any other players there doing this. As far as I am concerned any state or agency escalating into chemical agents especially nerve agents or nuclear weapons or biological weapons just made painted a very large target on themselves and deserves targeting of all of their military infrastructure capable of manufacturing, storing and delivering such terror weapons.

      The downstream consequences of leaving such acts unpunished are extremely disquieting and outright dangerous.

      Somehow I don’t think that Russia will interfere that much

      • marty mars 5.2.1

        + 1 wise words mate.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.2.2

        As far as I am concerned any state or agency escalating into chemical agents especially nerve agents or nuclear weapons or biological weapons just made painted a very large target on themselves and deserves targeting of all of their military infrastructure capable of manufacturing, storing and delivering such terror weapons.

        True but I’d like to see it proved first and we haven’t seen that.

      • Liberal Realist 5.2.3

        Certainly I can’t see any other players there doing this.

        Why would Assad stage a chemical attack on civilians when he know’s for well that doing this would most certainly result in retaliation from the US and their allies? It doesn’t make any sense to me unless he’s lost control of his armed forces?

        You don’t think that the Al Qaeda head choppers don’t have motive to stage a false flag to invite just the type of attack from the US has undertaken?

        It’s been reported that responders to the gas attack were not wearing the full body suits required to prevent secondary exposure, treating victims with bare hands etc.
        I don’t know if this is true but if it is how could the gas that was used be sarin? The exposed responders would be dead by now. Even secondary exposure (e.g. treating victims without protection) to sarin kills quickly.

        • dukeofurl

          When US does somthing heinous, it has a ready list of ‘errors and faults’ to blame.
          When Syria does it of course the entire government is too blame.

          Not so sure about the sarin attack, as the photos seem too staged, and of course
          the Sunni states have the means and motive to create an incident like this. We dont really know

        • Psycho Milt

          Why would Assad stage a chemical attack on civilians when he know’s for well that doing this would most certainly result in retaliation from the US and their allies?

          Because he doesn’t know that. Last time the US and its allies backed down. The lesson of the last five years for the Assad regime is that it can act with complete impunity – that all by itself answers the question of why it might do something that stupid.

          • Liberal Realist

            Because he doesn’t know that. Last time the US and its allies backed down.

            Since when was it proven that the Syrian government was the perpetrator of the 2013 Ghouta chemical attack?

            • Psycho Milt

              Since when was it proven that the Soviet government was the perpetrator of the Katyn massacre? “Proven” is a remarkably flexible concept when there are competing interests involved.

              However, even if we ascribe previous chemical warfare attacks in Syria to “person or persons unknown,” the lesson of the last five years for the Assad regime is that it can act with impunity – the current Russian government has seen to that. Today must have been a real shock for the Syrian top brass.

              • Liberal Realist

                Since when was it proven that the Soviet government was the perpetrator of the Katyn massacre? “Proven” is a remarkably flexible concept when there are competing interests involved.

                However, even if we ascribe previous chemical warfare attacks in Syria to “person or persons unknown,” the lesson of the last five years for the Assad regime is that it can act with impunity – the current Russian government has seen to that. Today must have been a real shock for the Syrian top brass.

                Okay I get your point around the flexibility of “Proven”. That said, there’s evidence that Al Qaeda / Al-Nusra perpetrated chemical attacks in 2013.

                Seems to me that the likes of Turkey and the Gulf States are the ones acting with impunity…

                See an excerpt from an article written by Seymour Hersh in 2014:

                “Last May, more than ten members of the al-Nusra Front were arrested in southern Turkey with what local police told the press were two kilograms of sarin. In a 130-page indictment the group was accused of attempting to purchase fuses, piping for the construction of mortars, and chemical precursors for sarin. Five of those arrested were freed after a brief detention. The others, including the ringleader, Haytham Qassab, for whom the prosecutor requested a prison sentence of 25 years, were released pending trial. In the meantime the Turkish press has been rife with speculation that the Erdoğan administration has been covering up the extent of its involvement with the rebels. In a news conference last summer, Aydin Sezgin, Turkey’s ambassador to Moscow, dismissed the arrests and claimed to reporters that the recovered ‘sarin’ was merely ‘anti-freeze’.

                The DIA paper took the arrests as evidence that al-Nusra was expanding its access to chemical weapons. It said Qassab had ‘self-identified’ as a member of al-Nusra, and that he was directly connected to Abd-al-Ghani, the ‘ANF emir for military manufacturing’. Qassab and his associate Khalid Ousta worked with Halit Unalkaya, an employee of a Turkish firm called Zirve Export, who provided ‘price quotes for bulk quantities of sarin precursors’. Abd-al-Ghani’s plan was for two associates to ‘perfect a process for making sarin, then go to Syria to train others to begin large scale production at an unidentified lab in Syria’. The DIA paper said that one of his operatives had purchased a precursor on the ‘Baghdad chemical market’, which ‘has supported at least seven CW efforts since 2004’.

                A series of chemical weapon attacks in March and April 2013 was investigated over the next few months by a special UN mission to Syria. A person with close knowledge of the UN’s activity in Syria told me that there was evidence linking the Syrian opposition to the first gas attack, on 19 March in Khan Al-Assal, a village near Aleppo. In its final report in December, the mission said that at least 19 civilians and one Syrian soldier were among the fatalities, along with scores of injured. It had no mandate to assign responsibility for the attack, but the person with knowledge of the UN’s activities said: ‘Investigators interviewed the people who were there, including the doctors who treated the victims. It was clear that the rebels used the gas. It did not come out in public because no one wanted to know.’”

                *my bold

                From here:


              • Well, yeah, it’s possible there’s all these complicated duplicitous plots involving the foreign enemies of the Syrian regime carrying out false flag attacks designed to discredit the regime, or it’s possible the regime just fought its enemies with the weapons it had. For my money, any theory involving complex and wide-ranging conspiracies that nevertheless remain perfectly secret are of less value than more straightforward explanations, but maybe that’s just me.

          • reason

            Impunity ????

            Thats the U.S you’ve just described …. The American empire

            Every kid in this video has been traumatized …. or killed …. in U.s.a sponsored wars/ ethnic cleansing /genocide .

            • Psycho Milt

              I’m trying to establish a point to your comment. Is it that the US government also acts with impunity, therefore it’s OK for the Syrian government to gas people? Is it that the US government has somehow just randomly blown up a Syrian air base because it’s free to act with impunity? Is it that you’re just sadly obsessed with American crimes to the exclusion of everything else that happens in the world? Please clarify.

              • reason

                Your playing the fool … or taking me for one ….

                My point is ALL the lies behind the killing …. that you seem relaxed about …

                I suppose its not your kids in the firing line …..

                “For most the US wasn’t committing genocide, it was fighting wars.
                Only .. the Armenian genocide was a war- according to the Turks ; the Holocaust was a war – according to the Germans; the Tutsi genocide; the Herero genocide; Bosnia; even Democratic Kampuchea – all wars according to the perpetrators and their apologists. What is more they are all against insurgents, ‘terrorists’ and guerillas. The difference between US genocides and the others? There isn’t one. The different perspectives on the other hand, are easily explained. The bad things that THEY do are both symptomatic and purposive; the bad things that WE do are aberrant and unintended.. WE act out of honorable motives but may stray or be forced by the nefariousness of our opponents into regrettable acts:; They rationalist their hateful murderousness with excuses which wither in the face of mass death. This simple chauvinism can be very ro0bust and fact-proof, something well attested by the persistence of denial of the Armenian genocide in Turkey….”


                You’d have to be a bone headed idiot to forget all the lies they always tell for their ‘humanitarian ‘ wars … or believe in humanitarian war for that matter.

                : They lied to invade and wage war on the Afghan people. We hunt down 3 year olds as just one result. …. 2001 to now … so many dead

                They spun many lies of chemical nature + nuclear and other assorted terrorist bullshit to invade Iraq and tear its country and people apart ….. still there … still doing it.

                They spun many lies to wage war on and destroy Libya as a contry ….. and a society .

                They lied to invade Vietnam and killed genocidal numbers of Vietnamse in a 100,000 and one different war crimes …. Millions dead

                … and on and on and on http://johnpilger.com/articles/don-t-forget-y

                We should not be supporting head chopping thugs in the destruction of a country http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/05/syria-revolution-aleppo-assad.html ….

                The people have had enough despite “the guts” from people who never risk their own …. or THEIR children.

                …. Their is actually a way to clean up corruption like ( Assads etc ), that does not involve killing 100,000s .
                But as the Poms and Yanks with their Banks plus corporations neck deep in shadow banking/ tax havens….

                which are the lynch pins for corruption …. It all swings on them.

                then nothing will happen there …… and racist Muslim haters like yourself get your prejudices fed with war propaganda…

                Britians tax havens network is probably very symbiotic and helpful for its weapons Industry ….. rip off the poor … and blow them up.

                ….. Bill English does not smell burned human flesh …. he smells trade deal

        • exkiwiforces

          “It’s been reported that responders to the gas attack were not wearing the full body suits required to prevent secondary exposure, treating victims with bare hands etc.
          I don’t know if this is true but if it is how could the gas that was used be sarin? The exposed responders would be dead by now. Even secondary exposure (e.g. treating victims without protection) to sarin kills quickly.”

          It depends on the dose, it also appears that chlorine was mixed in with therefore it would mask the sarin and may reduce it lethalness of sarin ie instead of a quick death a slow painful death either way it’s still nasty stuff.

          This was a surprise attack on defenceless people regardless if first responder’s were expecting CBRN attack you would still have casualties. but at reduce level Their Decom drills were very good, but basic stripping clothes of the casualties, hosing them with water before they receive medical care. As I said lastnight about the attack this was a classic CBRN attack using HE ordinance and possibly 2 Chemical bombs from I’ve from video footage.

          • exkiwiforces

            This is the some of footage I’ve seen. What you would see is the first explosion which is a HE bomb follow by two more. Notice the lack of blast/ debris being throwing up. The second bomb the cloud is quite low to the ground and third has develop a small cloud which then collapse on itself (its a shame it not shown here).


            On the Janes defence website: states ISIS are using mustard/ phosphine base chemical agents which cause blistering, burns, blindness etc and I haven’t seen any evidence to say it was a mustard/ phosphine base chemical agents. Its all pointing to a nerve agent more likely to sarin. WHO is conducting tests on a few bodies in Turkey to ID what chemical agent was used.

        • lprent

          You look at the evidence coming out after 2013?

          If they aren’t guilty then they sure sniffed a lot of chemicals

        • Venezia

          Among the dead were the first helpers on the scene, who did actually succumb to the gas. Reported in the Guardian and Al Jazeera English.

    • Skeptic 5.3

      Agree – the only surprising thing is that the US response has been with conventional weapons.
      The US has a policy that all Nuclear, Chemical and Biological weapons are WMD and as the US doesn’t deploy Chemical or Biological weapons, their policy is to respond to WMD with nukes. I fully expected Damascus to be reduced to a radioactive parking lot when I heard of the use of Chemical weapons by Assad.
      I suspect Russia is well aware of this US policy and has or will lay a fairly heavy threat on Assad – something along the lines of “we don’t want our forces reduced to glow-in-the-dark troops, so we will pull our forces out and let the Yanks have a go if you do it again.”
      Trump will use this as an example for others to look at his regime and “be afraid – be very afraid” – in particular I’m thinking of North Korea.

  6. joe90 6


    What will we get for bombing Syria besides more debt and a possible long term conflict? Obama needs Congressional approval.— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 29, 2013

  7. Stunned Mullet 7

    Pity they didn’t target Assad.

    [I see from the ‘pending’ queue your apparent intent to just repeat that refrain up and down this thread. One week ban for glorifying death and killing] – Bill

    • exkiwiforces 7.1

      Probably wouldn’t be a wise move to target Assad and god only knows what would happen if the US targeted Assad.

    • North 7.2

      Justified response there Bill re the Stunted Mulllet. Been routinely watching CNN to keep up with daily developments in Washington. Acknowledging that I know bugger all in terms of hard facts (don’t have the time frankly holding down a demanding full time job) ……..but gotta say there’s a massive CNN number going on, Amanpour et al…….”Assad did this evil !” Well, I’m not confident, looking across the wholeness of it, and having regard to authoritative commentary……., to accept that at face value. Iraq and WMD comes to mind. And another thought……..Trump really needs this. The scummy racist Deplorables’ll be ejaculating.

  8. Cinny 8

    FFS how many ‘sides’ are there in Syria now? Increase our refugee quota pronto.

    Agent Orange has been waiting for an excuse, he was given one the other day with the chemical attack, no matter how that went down he’s using it for leverage.

    Many USA citizens brainwashed by terrorism fear will be all accepting of it, don’t question the military, support our brave troops, blah blah

    Stay the fuck out of this one NZ, or is it already too late?

  9. Sabine 9

    ” The airstrikes were carried out less than an hour after the president concluded a dinner with Xi Jinping, the president of China, at his estate in Mar-a-Lago in Florida, sending an unmistakably aggressive message about Mr. Trump’s willingness to use the military power at his disposal.

    Mr. Trump authorized the strike with no congressional approval for the use of force, an assertion of presidential authority that contrasts sharply with the protracted deliberations over the use of force by his predecessor, former President Barack Obama.

    Unlike Mr. Obama, who weighed — and ultimately rejected — the use of a similar strike at targets after Syria used chemical weapons in 2013, Mr. Trump moved with remarkable speed, delivering the punishing military strike barely 72 hours after the devastating chemical attack that killed 80 people this week.”


    I very much like this bit here : Mr. Trump authorized the strike with no congressional approval for the use of force,

    let that sink in, this was not authorized by congress – congress shall have the power to declare war

    Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the U.S. Constitution grants Congress the power to declare war. The President, meanwhile, derives the power to direct the military after a Congressional declaration of war from Article II, Section 2, which names the President Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces.

    who really still gives a fuck?

    • Maui 9.1

      Trump has opened himself up to impeachment by Congress, but will be supported by the Clintonistas. How is the real US economy doing ?

      • Sabine 9.1.1

        It matters shit all what the ‘clintonistas’ do, cause a. they not president, b. they not near the white house, c. they don’t hold the Congress nor Senate.

        The presidency is Republican held, unless you want to state that Trump is a closted Clintonista.

        The congress is Republican held, unless you want to call the Republicans and Tea Partier closeted Clintonistas.

        the senate is Republican held, unless you want to call the Republicans and Tea Partier closeted Clintonisas.

        So it fucking matters not one iota what the ‘clintonistas’ would do, cause they ain’t doing shit.

    • Siobhan 9.2

      Hilary was calling for an airstrike earlier…and Trump was happy to oblige.
      Great bedfellows those two.


      • Sabine 9.2.1

        So you are saying that Trump is doing what Hillary Clinton says?

        Like really?

        is that like Labour does it too? No matter what Trumps gonna do, you gonna excuse him by saying that should Hillary have won, which she did not cause Trump did, then she would do such and such, and cause Trump is such an impotent fuckwit he will do what Hillary Clinton would do if she’da’won’da’presidency? Like seriously Yeah?

    • shorts 9.3

      its been a long time since the US actually declared war on anyone (world war two)… congress can authorise military engagements (last was iraq in 2003)

      They rally are a rogue state – with none of the so called freedom loving countries prepared to reign them in

      McCully has already come out in support of the US attack


  10. Ad 10


    And quite a signal for North Korea.

  11. McFlock 11

    Meanwhile, Duterte rattles his sabre in the South China sea.

    I thought the demagogues were going to chill everything the fuck down, geopolitically?

  12. I got a sneaking suspicion that this was an agreed on course… an airfield, Russian officials forewarned to move Russian troops from harms way , and for all we know, Syrian personnel moved out of the vicinity as well …

    I got a feeling this was agreed on… as part of US policy on North Korea and pressuring China… the Russians to this day are not that fond of China…

    So ,.. we pander to the narrative and make a big speech and song and dance about it… cite God a few times , make a few people feel better about it… make Assad a lap dog, hold an inquiry after a suitable amount of time… voila ! … discover it wasn’t Assad after all but those no good rebels,… pardon Assad, and put in that oil pipeline…

    Assad likes it because he gets foreign aid packages, royalty’s from a pipeline, backing from both sides to kill off any rebel opposition , Russia likes it because they get to make an oil pipeline , and Trump likes it because he gets to look as if hes taking risks with Russia… and gets rid of those pesky accusations about Russian influence in his being elected….., win / win.

    Oh Well…

  13. esoteric pineapples 14

    There goes the only vaguely valid argument the “anyone but Clinton” brigade ever had

    • Difference is, Clinton was purchasing arms for ISIS through the Clinton Foundation from monies from Saudi Arabia and keeping the USA military industrial complex in clover – Obama could afford to pull back and go softly softly.

      Here we have a USA president who has been accused of collaboration with the Russians to influence his win.

      What better way to resolve that than bombing an empty airfield suspected by the world press of being the starting point for chemical weapons use by Assad… and making it look like Trump is even taking on the Russians ?

      All it took was a prior agreement and a warning to all personnel in the vicinity to evacuate the premises…

      Nope,… the real target of all this is China… as China is the biggest emerging threat to the USA economy… as it is one of ( if not the biggest ) the largest suppliers of credit to the USA.

      And we all know how the USA views North Korea,.. and we all know who is North Korea’s biggest ally, …. China.

      Oh Well…

      • McFlock 14.1.1

        lol it takes more than a few hours to empty an airfield. Lots of expensive fixed infrastructure.

        Empty airfield? CF funds to ISIS?

        deary me.

        • WILD KATIPO

          Lets have a look at precisely what sort of ‘ airfield ‘ we are talking about… a few empty warehouses save for the gas pyrotechnics , a rusty old wire mesh fence, a few abandoned gun emplacements, maybe even a few old fighter jets worth less than a few million- peanuts compared to the gains….

          Remember what they used to bring the USA into the first world war?

          The Lusitania.

          Have a read up on that for a bit and the cargo of arms it carried .

          Deary me…

          • McFlock

            I bet there wasn’t even a gas attack.

            Hell, the only reason I think there’s a country called Syria is because I first read it in a government supplied textbook!

            • WILD KATIPO

              Were you there witnessing the chemical attacks ?

              Did you witness it?

              Were you there as an intimate to negotiations between all party’s concerned?

              Did you , as an observer even have as much to lose politically as Trump does with accusations of Russian involvement in US elections?

              Have a think.

              • McFlock

                “Thinking”, when taken to the degree of excluding almost all external data, is synonymous with “fantasising”.

                • And that’s precisely where you fall into the trap.

                  ‘External data’.

                  Whose ‘ data’ ?

                  Whose ‘ narrative’?

                  See below for further comment.

                  • McFlock

                    Sigh. Why bother reading more comment that has no information, and denies the possibility of knowing anything.

                    You know what? If, after 40-odd years, I didn’t think I had a rough handle on the different layers of bullshit in the world, I might be an incredulous moron, too.

                    But as it is, experience tells me that although I might be wrong in any specific point, overall I’m in the ballpark more often than not. So I behave accordingly.

                    As it is, I’m getting a bit fucked off with all these victims of what one wag here years ago referred to as “baby’s first cartesian doubt”. Probably just the shitty weather today.

                    • Go ahead- answer the challenge.

                      As an analogy of how geo political diplomacy works , read up on what was found recently in the Lusitania. Don’t just take my word for it.

                      Read it.

                      And I don’t give a shit if you don’t like Trump btw – mean less than nothing to me. Just do your homework.

                      Work out how these things are organised and put into effect. And have a read about the Balfour Agreement as well.

                      Either that or continue to suck up the narrative of the privately owned MSM major outlets. The choice is yours.

                    • McFlock

                      What challenge have you given me to answer?

                      And if the Balfour Declaration (as it was when I was studying it) gets your knickers in a twist, you’ll fucking love Sykes-Picot.

                      And yet both are hardly at the forefront of anyone’s mind when looking at what troops or bombs they will deploy today…

          • joe90

            Remember what they used to bring the USA into the first world war?

            The Lusitania.

            Congress voted to declare war on Germany on April 6, 1917, two years after the Lusitania sinking.

            • WILD KATIPO

              Have you read what was actually found recently in the hold of the Lusitania?

              Have you?

              • joe90


                • Try again and be serious this time.

                  Doesn’t take a lot of effort to find the truth.

                  Or do you really want to continue to be a MSM sucker? And while your at it – have a wee read on the Balfour agreement as well.

                  Maybe the penny will start to drop.

                  • lprent

                    Oh FFS. Go and read about the Zimmerman telegram. Second best bit of wartime intelligence work by the British after the enigma machine.

                    • ‘ The passenger ship Lusitania was carrying munitions when it was sunk by a German submarine in May 1915, documents released by the British Government have revealed. The sinking of the ship with the loss of 1,198 passengers was depicted as an example of German ruthlessness during the First World War.May 2, 2014 ‘

                      Obviously USA produced munitions to supply Britain against Germany. Germany posted warnings against travelling on British bound vessels from the USA – in America.

                      The British knew the sinking of the Lusitania would bring the USA into the war.

                      The Balfour Agreement was conducted primarily by a delegation of European Jews to to ensure the USA entered world war one calling on Jewish financiers from the USA to lobby Congress. That succeeded. The terms of agreement was that after the war was concluded , that a Jewish homeland ( Israel ) was to be created.

                      After the USA entered the war , the salient that Germany held over the allies was withdrawn. Leading to the general feeling of someone ‘selling out ‘ the German war effort.

                      This was backed by the Rothschild’s of England. Funds were withdrawn from Germany from the Rothschild’s and started the inflation which helped to lead to Germany’s defeat and withdrawal.

                      In fact , the Knesset was built entirely by funds from the house of Rothschild from England after the conception of the nation of Israel in 1948 . The Rothschild’s remain patrons of the state of Israel to this day.

                    • dukeofurl

                      “knew the sinking [1915]of the Lusitania would bring the USA into the war.”

                      If they ‘knew that’ – it didnt work.
                      US entered war in 1917 , 2 years later

                      I reality it was the other way round.
                      “In early 1917, Germany decided to resume all-out submarine warfare on every commercial ship headed toward Britain, realizing that this decision would almost certainly mean war with the U.S”

                    • @ dukeofurl

                      ” The Balfour Declaration was a letter dated 2 November 1917 from the United Kingdom’s Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild, a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland. ”

                      Come again , matey?

                    • lprent []

                      It is always fun to educate the profoundly ignorant about the history that they distort.


                    • Oh , … and a few other things to set the record straight and observe a few historical and political agendas…

                      ” The Balfour Declaration was a letter dated 2 November 1917 from the United Kingdom’s Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild, a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland. It read:

                      ” His Majesty’s government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. ”

                      And while there may seem like a 7 month discrepancy in time, the REAL objectives in the continued lobbying of the USA Congress were clear , – sacrifice a few American lives (approx 116,516 ) for the diplomatic promise ( under the League of Nations with the emphasis on Great Britain ) of the establishment of a homeland for the Jewish people. (Israel ). To which the Rothschild’s banking family of Europe are still regarded as patrons thereof.

                      History. Such a marvelous teacher.

                    • ‘ Profoundly distort.’


                      So under the threat of the great lprent and his magic finger on the censor button and renowned legendary intolerance to any challenge to his viewpoint , I say prove it.

                      Back it up.

                      As far as I can see both you and McFlock fall into the same category – and the end result is nowhere. Just entrenched prejudice.

                      Here’s an old Beatles track to sum up the mindset.

                      The Beatles – Hello, Goodbye – YouTube

      • red-blooded 14.1.2

        “Difference is, Clinton was purchasing arms for ISIS through the Clinton Foundation from monies from Saudi Arabia and keeping the USA military industrial complex in clover”

        Bullshit. While there was some excitement before the US election about the fact that Clinton Foundation had received funds from some sources linked to Qatar and Saudi Arabia which were alleged to be also sending money to ISIS, Clinton was actually using this (slight) link to put pressure on these groups to STOP funding ISIS. Here’s what John Pilger had to say about it (link below):
        “In the email sent on August 17 2014, Ms Clinton asked Mr Podesta, who at that time worked under president Barack Obama, to help put “pressure” on Qatar and Saudi Arabia regarding the countries’ alleged support for the terrorist group Isis.

        “We need to use our diplomatic and more traditional intelligence assets to bring pressure on the governments of Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which are providing clandestine financial and logistic support to Isil and other radical Sunni groups in the region,” Ms Clinton wrote.”

        Note too that there were no funds from those sources while Clinton was Sec of State.


      • Liberal Realist 14.1.3

        Perhaps a plan hatched by the CFR, the real power brokers in Washington?

    • mauī 14.2

      Nothing was ever going to change under another establishment president, that’s why basically the whole of rural america voted for anything but Hillary. Still a genuine chance things might change with Trump, but this is a big setback.

      • North 14.2.1

        Rural America ? Rural America doesn’t give a fuck about anything does it…….except rationalisation of its scandalous racism…….and its need to see pumped up ‘Ugly American’ ? Like doubling down on horrendous mistakes of the past, with hands on hearts and all that shit.

        Setback ? Yeah. But not for The Orange. The Deplorables will come flooding back. Now I see that arsehole talking about “No such child of God……” And bidding God to bless America and the entire world. From the pussy grabber. What ???

        Sick Maui.

  14. mac1 15

    So, the US reserves the right unilaterally to punish war crimes anywhere on the globe. A fine global example. Now, who would be safe?

    For starters…….. NZ? The US itself?

    • LOL !,… it was agreed on prior by all the concerned party’s .

      Its a stage set!

      • mac1 15.1.1

        So all the world’s a stage, but it’s not as I like it!

        ” All the world’s a stage,
        And all the men and women merely players;
        They have their exits and their entrances,
        And one man in his time plays many parts……..

        Trump’s got to this part.

        “And then a soldier,
        Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,
        Jealous in honor, sudden and quick in quarrel,
        Seeking the bubble reputation
        Even in the cannon’s mouth.”

        Me, I hope to get to the “sans eyes, sans teeth, sans everything” part.

        • WILD KATIPO

          Jilly jolly spiffy for you , old chap – long may you ‘sans’ on about everything.

          And nothing in particular to boot.

          Bravo !

          Nicely done , old boy !

          • mac1

            It’s the thing about poetry. It makes points for which you may to have to search. I thought someone might find a difficulty with a Shakespeare quote, having to tease out the reasons why this quote is apposite to this topic. Poetry is also succinct, as the following explanation will demonstrate.

            First, Wild Katipo, you raised the idea of the ‘stage set’. So the quote may well support what you said. It’s in line with your own imagery.

            What do I take from this quote, and why did I use it? The obscenity that is war is not new. Shakespeare wrote four hundred years ago. Nothing much has changed, except the lethality.

            My description of Trump as the soldier, or wannabe soldier since we know that he avoided war service himself, who seeks to use war as means of enhancing his own reputation, is very arguable and on topic.

            How accurate is the description of Trump and senior military leaders as “jealous in honour, sudden and quick to quarrel?” Trump’s reaction was quick and he is certainly jealous of his honour, bearing no criticism but rattling off tweets like a nervous machine-gunner at night. Yet his part is that of Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful armed force ever seen. not a poor private.

            The quote also says that men and women play many parts in their lives upon this stage. How many parts does Trump, or any of us play, what is our motivation, how true to our own character, how much directed at the audience and the box-office? What role does Trump see himself in?

            Lastly, if your objection is to a bit of erudition, then that’s your problem. You who quite rightly assert that history is a great teacher above!

            Shakespeare is part of our heritage. He wrote things from a very deep understanding of human folly and character. He is insightful, even in this age, as humans don’t essentially change.

            I’m getting to the last stage of Shakespeare’s seven ages of man. One of the blessings of old age they tell me is the beginning of wisdom. But of course no-one listens to old people, since they know nothing and anyway they live in the past and don’t understand the world of today, eh?

            Is it all just ‘sound and fury, signifying nothing’ as you say?

  15. Keith 16

    So the US blow something else up in someone elses country and even better in a country torn apart by regimes, including the US blowing things up, same shit different day. Whose the enemy and whose the good guys, I can no longer tell and I assume the poor people of Syria cannot either.

    May have hit and airbase or may have hit something else, who will ever really know? But at least those people killed were was with US made explosive missiles by a US corporation who will chinking the champagne glasses together over those sales. But hey the weren’t killed by gas weapons made by I wonder who.

    • Well ,… if indeed there were civilian casualties I would suspect it was poison gas products supplied by the Saudi Arabians to ISIS , who as we all know … are SUNNI Muslims as well.

      Who justify the slaughter of SHIITE Muslims and secular Middle Eastern nations . And why ?

      Because THEY believe they are HERETICS !

      And because a Sunni Kingdom could not risk the political advancement of a Shiite minority in their own country ! That’s why !

      And so that’s why it wasn’t Assad at all – if indeed the gas attacks even happened – it was financially backed with chemical weapons from Saudi Arabia in the FIRST PLACE.

      And as we all know – Saudi Arabia is the oil supplier for the USA.

  16. mauī 17

    We’ve got our own mini-america foreign policy idiot across the ditch.

    The Trump administration informed the Australian government in advance of its plans to launch the Tomahawk missile attack on Syria, Fairfax Media understands.

    Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull had pointedly said before news of the strikes broke that the chemical attack on civilians “cries out for a strong response”.


  17. I don’t recall this mass outbreak of panic and pacifism when Russia started blowing things up in Syria. Any particular reason it’s an imminent threat of world war if the Americans chuck in a few explosives as well?

    • McFlock 18.1

      Well, the Russians blew up the shit they didn’t like to help Assad, and the yanks have blown up the shit the didn’t like in order to try damaging ISIS, but neither has outright intentionally (and with a fuckyou on the side) dropped grade A fucker-people-uppers onto people and places the other people liked.

      The turks shooting down the russian plane caused issues. The yanks might be okay if they avoided hurting any Russians, but it’s a bit foolhardy because the Russians wouldn’t be above leaving their folks in the target zone just to have something to forment a bit of outrage.

      • WILD KATIPO 18.1.1

        1) the Turks are allied to the UN/NATO agreement.

        Until such time as they institute the 10 nation pan Arabic / Muslim Caliphate Erdogan has talked about. With Turkey being the seat of that Caliphate.

        Then we will see REAL fireworks.

        2) the Russians want a secure pipeline through Syria to supply European markets.

        3 ) the USA is allied with Saudi Arabia because it is a long term and secure energy source for American industry.

        4 ) whether we like it or not – historically and presently , – ‘ common folk ‘ are expendable to geo political concerns. And always have been .

        And that’s the cold, hard truth of the matter.


        • McFlock

          All true.

          All somewhat irrelevant to the point about why the US deliberately attacking Assad regime bases that might have Russian personnel is an escalation, as opposed to NATO/Jordan bombing ISIS or Assad/Russia bombing other rebels.

          • WILD KATIPO

            You seem to have a severe dislocation to being able to work out the correlations and thus the relationships between the obvious concerned and mutually beneficial party’s involved.

            Have a cup of tea and a biscuit , get past my way of expressing it, draw a deep breath and have a wee think about it.

            • McFlock

              Or, option b, you want to express something, you get to the fucking point and express it clearly.

              • Its been done clearly enough already. Up to you to see it.

                After that – the choice is yours.

                I’ve already provided you with ample reasons.

                But carry on with the anti Trump sentiment if you want- lol – just don’t cry about fake news and the evils of the MSM media.

                • McFlock

                  Its been done clearly enough already. Up to you to see it.

                  In which comment? I must have missed that one where you clearly expressed a coherent thought – although I think I’ve spotted a couple of dogwhistles in your deranged banter.

                  • ” In which comment? I must have missed that one where you clearly expressed a coherent thought ”


                    In answering a barrage of anti Trump opinions I should imagine it is quite easy for you to have missed an ‘expressed coherent thought’.

                    But that is not my problem. It is yours.

                    If you lack the cognitive ability to follow what I have clearly put out before you , then again, that is your problem, not mine. Rest assured. It is quite coherent and logically set out . And it is all here for you to see. If you can follow a chronological sequence and if you can get past your anti Trump sentiments.

                    • McFlock

                      It’s not my anti-Trump sentiments getting in the way, it’s my lack of patience for pretentious fools who aren’t prepared to clearly put their position in one fell swoop.

                      If you have a point, don’t play hard to get. I don’t have the inclination for that shit, because you’ve done nothing to suggest that you’re worth it.

                  • Don’t get angry because you haven’t bothered to read what I’ve clearly stated.

                    That’s the first point.

                    The second is I have no particular inclination to have any tit for tat session.

                    I’ve laid it all out clearly enough for you to follow. Its a simple matter of scrolling down the thread. Its that simple.

                    And I would prefer if you followed that line rather than offer these continual knee jerk reactions . Other than that, I would have to prepare a whole essay just for your perusal. I’m sure there are others that have other contributions to make on the subject , however.

                    • McFlock

                      If I need to scroll down throughout a thread, rather than look at one simple and clear comment of yours, then you obviously haven’t clearly stated anything.

                      You don’t need to write an essay, just get to the fucking point. If you’ve stated your point, link to that comment. It’s not difficult.

                      Most other commenters can express quite nuanced opinions within one or two short paragraphs. Perhaps that’s a skill you could develop.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Wild Katipo is performing The Dance of The Seven Veils, as interpreted by a slightly overweight middle-aged white man in lycra.

                    • @ One Anonymous Bloke

                      And ?

                  • Rightly or Wrongly

                    I suspect WK might be Phil Ure’s cousin? Or perhaps smoking the same strain of electric puha?

                    • Nice comment , lovey.

                      Try mixing it with a little bit of substance next time and maybe it’ll be attractive .Til then ,… a fail.

                    • McFlock

                      the punctuation in the comment above suggests you might be right, but I don’t recall ure going on about the “Rothschilds” so much. Although I didn’t read his comments religiously.

                    • The Rothschild’s is used as an analogy and a historical precedent as an example. Particularly in regards to those whose political predisposition is away from Trump.

                      It strikes me as peculiar that those who are quick to lambaste Trump because of their current political persuasions are so strident in denying obvious historical precedents : which ultimately lead to the same mistakes as their predecessors.

                      For me, I am neither hard Left or hard Right.

                      I am more interested in analyzing the motives of all party’s concerned and making sense of it. And to do that, you have to be dispassionate.

                      Rest assured , I am as interested as you might be in the ‘who’ and the ‘ why’s’ ,… if human loss of life is concerned it is an outrage. But , again dispassionately , I believe we must ascertain the possible motives to find the culprits.This is why I labored on the Rothschild’s as an historical precedent.To demonstrate that the ‘conspiracy theory’ to which we have been conditioned to reject and mock may in fact hold more truth than we are willing to accept at face value.

                      Fake news I cite as a modern example.

                      There have been so many examples of political skulduggery over so many hundreds of years. If we fail to heed past precedents , we go forward into the future at our peril. And as one who is blind.

                      That is why I gave the example of the Rothschild’s and their world influence in the 20th and 21rst century’s. Simply as examples.



                    • Oh , and one last trick,… fresh from TDB site , this song from Johnny Cash , last time on TDB was ‘ Sooner or later Gods gonna cut you down’,… well this time it was ‘ The Man comes around’…

                      Cash speaks where others don’t to me…so I apologise for being a bit terse to you all at times in an unapologetic sort of way…

                      Johnny Cash-The_Man_Comes Around – YouTube

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, it’s an “analogy” for “the culprits” now is it?

                      Truth be told, I’d already guessed that /sarc

                    • ” Oh, it’s an “analogy” for “the culprits” now is it?

                      Truth be told, I’d already guessed that /sarc”

                      Im not going to take on board your hurt feelings or frustrations at not being able to see what most can see when Ive made a statement. And as Ive said, go do some research into those areas offered and educate yourself so at least your in the loop of whats been pointed out.

                      Draw your own conclusions.

                      But whatever you do , please do not carry on like a butthurt newbie with a point to prove. Not a good look.

                    • McFlock

                      The conclusion I’ve drawn is that you’re not just a conspiracy nutter, you’re a cowardly bigot whose says “Rothschilds” when you really want to target an entire cultural group.

                    • McFlock …
                      8 April 2017 at 2:34 pm
                      ” The conclusion I’ve drawn is that you’re not just a conspiracy nutter, you’re a cowardly bigot whose says “Rothschilds” when you really want to target an entire cultural group.”

                      So now ,… you , – because your butthurt and want to practice the same sort of distraction / diversion as the trolls you censor – want to accuse me of A ) racism, B ) Bigotry , and C ) and a ‘ conspiracy nutter’.

                      You are new.

                      Very new.

                      If,… you had gone back and viewed my original comments and done some of your own research instead of relying on me having to hand feed you every scrap of information instead of trying to fall back into diversion , personal accusations and groundless assertions , you might just have seen the original point I was trying to make.

                      However, it is obvious that as soon as your precious Democrat idol Clinton was castigated and outed as a liar it was then that the abuse hurling from you started. Which leads me to believe I am dealing with a new, politically naive dullard that is more interested in identifying with a movement and scoring brownie points than being objective and seeing reality for what it is.

                      This is getting tiresome.

                      I care not for who says they are ‘ Left ‘ or ‘ Right’.

                      I only care about finding the truth. And that truth isn’t to be found buried under layers of biased tribalism or sycophantic political slavish adherence such as the standard that you have demonstrated and tried to pass off as balanced logic.

                      Please do not bother to reply as this is not only becoming wearisome , – but making you look even more desperate as time goes by.

                    • McFlock

                      You care about the truth?

                      You could have also mentioned Hearst.
                      JP Morgan.
                      Dozens of others.

                      But no, you fixated on the Rothschilds.

                      It’s not a diversion to point that out because it’s an indication of the sort of sites that youprobably get your information from. Information you yourself haven’t bothered to support.

                      I might look desperate, but you look to me like you’re spouting racist bullshit.

      • Psycho Milt 18.1.2

        That’s the thing, though – the Turks deliberately shot down a Russian aircraft, and the world is yet to be engulfed in military conflict. Putin’s not going to be chuffed about this, but he wasn’t chuffed about having his fighter jet shot down either. Now, if it were to turn out that the Russian air force had dropped the gas canisters and Trump were to hit their base with 60 cruise missiles, then it would be time to shit yourself and start stockpiling food.

        • McFlock

          Fair point, I’m not digging a bunker just yet.
          But it just depends on how much cause Putin has to not be chuffed at all – and much of that is down to luck rather than planning, I fear.

        • WILD KATIPO

          @ Psycho Milt

          What did President Trump say about NATO country’s again?… that they would have to finance their own military security exercises against the bogeyman …. Russia???

          Trumps been amiable with Putin.

          Putin wants to supply Europe with an oil pipeline.

          Putin is part of the Bric nations.

          West Europe hate the Bric nations.


          Because the Bric nations become independent from the City of London Usury system. The Rothschild’s system. Something that Trump hates also . The Reserve Bank of America is a private bank owned by the Rothschild’s of Europe – in particular the City of London Rothschild’s Group.

          And Turkey – even though Erdogan hasn’t yet consolidated the 10 nation Caliphate as of yet – is still allied to Nato.

          • McFlock

            The Reserve Bank of America is a private bank owned by the Rothschild’s of Europe

            [citation needed]

            • WILD KATIPO

              Do your research. Its a commonly known fact.

              • McFlock

                Doesn’t mention the Rothschilds at all

                • Draco T Bastard

                  No but it does show that it’s owned by the private banks some of which are most definitely owned by the Rothschild’s.

                  • McFlock

                    so “The Reserve Bank of America is a private bank owned by the Rothschild’s of Europe” in the same way that “the Cooperative Bank is a private bank owned by my beneficiary mate in South Dunedin”.

                    How much of the Federal Reserve do the Rothschilds allegedly own? 1%? 5%? 95%?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      …and why do they get singled out?

                      Why oh why?

                    • Every dollar that the USA borrows is paid back in interest to the Rothschild’s banking Group- ‘ The City of London Square Mile ‘ – . If I recollect , it was Andrew Jackson’s Presidency that was the only time that the USA was truly debt free.

                      That was because he basically commanded the USA Treasury to mint their own coinage / dollars – thus escaping the European banking / usury system that had bound the Monarchies of Europe.

                      It was the 1913 Federal Reserve Act passed under Woodrow Wilson ( while most of Congress was away on the Christmas break ) that brought the Federal Reserve Bank into being.

                      Wilson later expressed his regrets that he had done this and had ‘sold the American people out to European interest’s’…

                      ( I think it was Andrew Jackson from memory . Wouldn’t take much to clarify, however . )



                    • McFlock

                      Every dollar that the USA borrows is paid back in interest to the Rothschild’s banking Group

                      Every dollar? Really? Are you asserting that the Rothschilds own 100% of every bank that has shares in the Federal Reserve?

                      Be clear. Is that what you are claiming: that the Rothschilds and nobody else own the entire Federal Reserve?

                    • I assume you have read the article provided by Draco.

                      Lets be blunt. If you want to find precise figures , inquire in your own time. Otherwise, nitpick on.

                      And please do not think that this is some kind of victory for you , for it is Pyrrhic in nature. But , … if your hatred for Trump and need for identification with the so called ‘ left’ and thus the Clinton’ s and Democrats in American politics is so strong, – by all means – keep to the illusions of political purity.

                      However ,… here’s an interesting fact :

                      General George Armstrong Custer was a Democrat.

                      Talk to the Lakota Sioux or Northern Cheyenne to see if they would agree that supporting the Democrats was all it was cracked up to be in a historical sense.

                    • McFlock

                      So just to recap, the sole evidence you’re going to rest on to support your claims that not only do the Rothschilds own some of the federal reserve, they get every dollar, with interest, of US national debt is a link from draco that doesn’t demonstrate that the Rothschilds own any of the Fed?

                      Your logic behind the Rothschilds controlling the US economy is “the fed is owned by some banks, the Rothschilds own some banks, therefore the Rothschilds own the fed”.

                      You’re some deep thinker there, fucko

                    • Nice abuse.

                      However, if you are indeed the deep thinker you claim I am not then I would charge you to do your own research. Patently you have not. What you have demonstrated is a desperate clinging to a line of thought to win at all costs.

                      Fine. Carry on.

                      I would have at least thought you had bothered to conduct your own research. You haven’t. Obviously. I am not here to hold your hand. You have been provided with ample data and suggestions to conduct your own fact finding. Instead you would rather hurl abuse.

                      The only problem I have with that attitude is that it is prey to the same kind of thinking that justified John Key and his denials of NZ being a tax haven. Same principal.

                      Do some research and be a little less interested in points scoring than in finding some facts. I trust you are intelligent, prove it. Do some research of your own. As I said, I am not here to hold your hand and spend all day providng linkages for someone who seems more than capable of doing it for themselves.

                      Or,… in a very blunt term of phrase – fuck off, get off your voluminous ass and look it up for yourself instead of being some lazy internet prat who just wants to win brownie points.



                    • McFlock

                      you make the assertion, you support it. If I researched every stupid statement made by a closet racist who was too cowardly to come out with it up front, I’d have an uncredited phd.

                    • ” if I researched every stupid statement made by a closet racist who was too cowardly to come out with it up front, I’d have an uncredited phd.”

                      Nice abuse.

                      Seems that’s your default position. Do some work.

                      Its been laid out quite clearly , and only you seem to be having the problem here.

                      And having to repeat the same thing over and over gets tedious. Go and do some research. Ive got better things to do than try and jolly along a slow learner hour after hour.

                    • McFlock

                      Here’s a list of the largest banks in the US.
                      They’d all be members of the fed, no?

                      How many are owned by the Rothschilds?

      • weka 18.1.3

        “but it’s a bit foolhardy because the Russians wouldn’t be above leaving their folks in the target zone just to have something to forment a bit of outrage.”

        To what end?

        • McFlock

          Putin’s got an election next year and has economic issues. Also recent protests in Russia.

          But then I’m a cynic who thinks putin’s had journailsts and opponents murdered.

          • weka

            oh, you meant outrage from Russians back home? So similar shit as Tr*mp then.

            • McFlock

              Yeah I reckon it’s just the stage of the election cycle Russia’s in. Geopolitics still a serious consideration, but the other spinning plate is Russian domestic politics.

              Whereas Trump has had the election, and I think there’s a bit of a pivot going there: Bannon’s been kicked back off the NSC and a day or two later trump fires missiles at Assad’s Syria. That all could be the result of considered contemplation of expert advice from a number of expert sources, or it could just be the South Park school of presidential manipulation.

              • weka

                I didn’t know that about Bannon (haven’t been following much of the US stuff recently). So less Team Armageddon and more neocon BAU?

                • McFlock

                  Dunno about neocon BAU yet.

                  The fact that they’re launching means the hawks are on the upper over the pro-russians, as well as the diplomacists who stopped Obama doing it a few years back.

                  But I think the neocons were more about american geopolitical dominance and kicking the proceeds of that to the 1%ers, or at least kicking the US treasury to the 1%ers. I don’t get the same sense of a coherent plan from the current lot yet.

    • @ Psycho Milt

      And thank you as well.

      Major point right there.

      Well done!

    • mauī 18.3

      It’s not like the US haven’t fucked up other countries in the past eh? Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Vietnam, Korea, etc. Say if New Zealand was under insurgent attack you bet we would be calling on Russia for military support if they were one of our strongest allies. Russia was invited in by the democratically elected Syrian government and helped push back terrorists. America invites itself in only for terrorists to benefit.

  18. adam 19


    Evil is beaten by evil, and other absurdities are on display today.

    The USA has once again demonstrated why it has given up on Christianity. Why they have given up on a message of love. Why Christians everywhere should be weary of a state out of control, acting out the darker perversions from the Old Testament.

    Luke 6:35

    35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

  19. Sanctuary 20

    Even seasoned cynics who watched the the cynical flim flam from the Russians at the U.N. defending Assad over this would have blanched, and that it was followed by a bit of equally cynical All-American theatre from the USA would have been the cherry on top of that particular grotesque charade of a debate.

    Occam’s razor informs me that Trump’s 180 on Syria is amateur foreign policy by an emotionally driven amateur president. Bluntly, Trump was horrified by the images of the chemical attack and he has done what most people would do if they had the means when presented with pictures of children killed by nerve gas – he lashed out to try and punish the evil doers.

    Whether or not doing the human thing and seeking to be the fist of righteous retaliation against people who don’t hesitate to use chemical warfare against their own defenseless woman and children is good diplomacy is I guess a matter of taste as much as anything.

    Personally, I think allowing your emotions to rule your head is a profoundly and selfishly irresponsible thing to do when you are president of the United States.

    • McFlock 20.1

      True, but I guess at least he’s not a complete sociopath if your suspicions are correct.

      Silver linings, eh…

    • Dont even think its that.


      The USA favors Saudi Arabia because it is its major energy supplier.

      Saudi Arabia is SUNNI Muslim.

      ISIS is Sunni Muslim.

      Assad is a secular leader.

      Sunni Muslims believe secular govt’s are INFIDEL govt’s, and Shiite Muslims are HERETICS.

      Saudi Arabia could ill afford a growing Shiite or secular presence opposing them in governance.

      Trump was accused of Russian interference of US elections.

      Saudis have been accused in the past of supplying chemical weapons against Assad.

      Clinton was found to have been using the Clinton Foundation to purchase arms for ISIS from monies from Qatar, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia.

      Obama was reticent to oppose ISIS meaningfully. And let the Russians back Assad unchecked.

      Trump has opposed North Korea.

      Trump has wined and dined the President of China .

      Trump then attacked a vacant airbase in Syria to demonstrate his willingness to conduct war with North Korea in the presence of the President of China.

      USA Congress has backed military ‘sabre rattling ‘ in the South China sea.

      This whole thing has been an exercise in geopolitics and nothing more. To impress upon China that the USA means business regards USA hegemony in the South China seas. And the cost ? … a worn out airfield in Syria with the proviso that both Russian and Syrian personnel were well clear of any air strikes conducted by US bombers.

      • Skeptic 20.2.1

        Hey WK – I think you might wanna cool it a little mate. Some of you comments are waaaay over the top. I also think many of your assertions should have citations.

        eg “The USA favors Saudi Arabia because it is its major energy supplier.
        Saudi Arabia is SUNNI Muslim.
        ISIS is Sunni Muslim.
        Assad is a secular leader.
        Sunni Muslims believe secular govt’s are INFIDEL govt’s, and Shiite Muslims are HERETICS.
        Saudi Arabia could ill afford a growing Shiite or secular presence opposing them in governance.”

        The broad brush linkage here is tenuous at best without specific citations – for instance the term “Sunni” is like “Protestant” and as we all know there are a myriad of views within both definitions.

        Also – “The Reserve Bank of America is a private bank owned by the Rothschild’s of Europe – in particular the City of London Rothschild’s Group.”

        This sounds and is something that’s almost a direct quote from Hal Lindsay’s extreme right “Late Great Planet Earth” and the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” forgery.

        As this is a left-wing website, any right-wing – especially extreme right-wing – utterances are and will be treated with disdain.

        My advice – watch your facts and keep them very, very separate from opinions.

        Back to the point of the article – Why Trump has elected to launch Tomahawks now when Obama didn’t. The answer is contained in the political theory of “realpolitik”. Different timing – different circumstances, different relationships, different threat/perceived threats, any combination of these and other factors, PLUS advice given/rejected/accepted by experts/agencies etc.

        While we might speculate as to reasons, we can only estimate as to consequences – my guess is the Russians will huff and puff but will wear it on the chin – the US military is far, far too powerful for Russia to even consider taking on. This may well be an indirect warning to Trump’s visitor from China, both as to what might be in store for North Korea and China itself if she doesn’t pull her head in over the South China Sea issues.
        If I were the fat boy leading “the world’s most secretive state”, I’d be shitting bricks by now, because Trump just issued a real big warning. He’d do well to remember Trump has THAAD, stealth, JDAMS, JSOWS and WD80s up his sleeve.

        • WILD KATIPO

          Nah mate…

          “The USA favors Saudi Arabia because it is its major energy supplier.
          Saudi Arabia is SUNNI Muslim.
          ISIS is Sunni Muslim.
          Assad is a secular leader.
          Sunni Muslims believe secular govt’s are INFIDEL govt’s, and Shiite Muslims are HERETICS.
          Saudi Arabia could ill afford a growing Shiite or secular presence opposing them in governance.”

          Facts are the facts,… brutal to your ears or not.

          Example :

          You take your shoes off on entering a Marae because

          A) the Wahine cant be bothered to sweep up after you ?


          B ) its a sign of respect?

          It would behoove you to choose the latter.

          Why ?… not only it is having respect for that culture , – it is also because there are protocols to be followed. No different from recognizing the difference between Sunni Muslims and Shiite Muslims. Or Catholic tradition and Protestant traditions.

          They are intrinsically different in their religious / cultural observations.

          NOW : introduce the concept of both POWER and MONEY.

          If you have ears to listen you will see how the above can have an immediate influence on how the above cultural values can be easily overridden. Similar to how neo liberalism has overridden western democracy’s. Same principle, –
          different mechanisms employed.

          Do I need to remind you of Bastion Point?

          As for the rest of what I have said in this post , – like McFlock , – I advise you also to scroll down the thread and see the full intent of my comments.

          • Skeptic

            All of which has precious little to do with Trump’s decision to launch Tomahawks and with possible consequences. I don’t think Trump gave a toss about Sunni/Shiite differences. Maori protocols have bugger all to do with the topic in question as well. Nor do power & money or cultural values have anything to do with the article either.

            That was my point and – well – congratulations – you’ve proved it.

            In about 18 months or so, we’ll now what the relevant decision factors were, (they’ll be “leaked” as per usual) so our speculation in a tiny country at the other end of the Earth is kinda mindless? Yeah? That’s why I suggested you cool it – it was kinda embarrassing.

            • WILD KATIPO

              Problem is, you deny cultural values and the influence of geo political aspects all in one fowl stroke. Simplistic thinking .

              You – like so many others – fail to see any correlations. So , for you ,… it gets down to what you see in front of you rather than what you can perceive, No wonder the MSM is so successful. You can neither absorb general principles of historic note nor discern its practice in modern terms.

              You seem to be focused on the immediate emotive visual aspects of pictures of small children being gassed or dramatic story’s of airfields being bombed . Now whether that happened or not Ill leave that for you to decide. Pick a side.

              As to the motives and who actually did it, I would prefer a more analytical approach. Such as – ask yourself – who gains from this sort of incident?

              And why?

              Who could possibly benefit ?

              Thus far not many have even attempted to answer that – including yourself – just a knee jerk reactionary motion of a collective ‘ we hate Donald Trump ‘ because,… because we just do !!! ”

              Try again, please.

              • Skeptic

                Sorry Wk , but I haven’t denied any values, cultural or otherwise. Incidentally, it’s “fell swoop”, not “fowl (as in chicken) stroke”. And there’s nothing at all simple about the Syrian situation – it’s probably the most complex situation anywhere right now.
                As for correlations and historical perspective – well let’s just say that as an MA with a history minor and a strong ME content, you so far off beam your comment about blind acceptance of MSM is ludicrous in the extreme.
                Sorry – haven’t seen the pictures other than what’s been shoveled on the idiot box, but have read widely on the complexities of Syria, WMD and US politics in the ME.
                So, your question about “qui bono” is very much at the heart of this debate – so well done for correct identification of the problem. Now, break it down – short term benefits, long term goals and intermediate aims. When you’ve got some answers to those questions we’ll have a semi-literate hypothesis. When the full story come out – and this is usually, but not always, in 18 months time, we can test the hypothesis against the facts, thereby increasing our overall knowledge.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 20.3

      Obama walked away from his “red line”: this action has been in the tool-box for a while.

    • Morrissey 20.4

      A deep-thinking moral giant calling itself “Sanctuary” has been enthusing about the most recent case of American selective morality.

      Perhaps “Sanctuary” can inform us when we should bomb Israel? Now? Tomorrow?

      Unlike the case with Syria, there is not the slightest doubt about that evil regime’s systematic use of chemical weapons on the trapped enclave of Gaza.

  20. On the plus side, I’m so going to enjoy seeing the Russian ambassador complaining to the Security Council about this terrible crime against the Syrian people, only to have any prospect of a resolution dashed by a US veto…

    • Ah , but it wont get that far ,… at least … behind closed doors. The fake news will still be the fake news, … and we as the plebiscites will still be enraged and encouraged to take sides… cannon fodder as we are and always have been …

      But to those important – or deemed important … the charade and the games will go on.

      No matter how many 3 year old children die.

      It is all about power.

      And that power backed up by those who have the financial clout to make certain events appear to ‘happen’.

      And the rest of the world as we know it will follow on blindly , adsorbing the narrative and becoming enraged and going to fight a war that was only ever conceived by those who had the finance and the means to stage the event as planned… with its premeditated outcome…

      Like the wolves , we are pack ‘animals’ ,… needing a sense of hierarchy and leadership, … and so we follow on … the difference is, … wolves don’t destroy each other in wholesale terms to achieve their objectives , nor to do they destroy the environment to prove a point. No wonder the Native Americans called them their ‘ teachers’…

      The Hidden Life of Wolves | National Geographic – YouTube
      Video for wolves pack hierarchy youtube▶ 2:35

    • Morrissey 22.2


      Russia has been fighting ISIS in Syria. The United States has supported ISIS in Syria. Your kind of “enjoyment” is possible only for the most depraved and poorly informed “consumers” of virtually unaltered State Department talking points masquerading as news.

      No doubt you’re fully on board with Trump’s call for “civilized nations” to support his bombing runs.

  21. ropata 23

    Trump nails it (back in 2013)

    Be prepared, there is a small chance that our horrendous leadership could unknowingly lead us into World War III.— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 31, 2013

  22. Probably ,… or we could say those who wish to deflect an issue under pressure of accusations.

    We ( supposedly ) no longer live under McCarthyism or Reaganism and the former USSR is broken up and part of the so called modern global economy.

    Why is it so hard then to not see collaboration in geopolitical politics?

    Are we still stuck in the age of ‘ them’ against ‘ us’ ?

    Back to the 1950’s ?

    Is it so hard to see and extricate ourselves from modern MSM narratives to see that those old rules no longer apply and that there has indeed been agreement among those with a shared interest of the global pie?

  23. Paul Campbell 25

    Sigh – War Again

  24. Paul Campbell 26

    what’s it good for

  25. Antoine 27

    Standard authors might like to have a think about whether this is the most useful way to title and tagline a post

    [Can’t see anything wrong with the tags, but I wasn’t that keen on the title either. However there are ways to express that, and telling authors what to do isn’t one of them. Please read the Policy. – weka]

  26. Tui 28

    frump wants to start a war so he can profit selling tomahawk missiles!

    ~ Tui

  27. Fly OnTheWall 29

    This country, that country … come on you guys, we all know who the bad guys are … and they’re not limited to any country. They own ALL of our asses. We got lazy, busy, blah blah blah … and fell asleep at the wheel. This is just a well-planned, perfectly orchestrated shit show to keep our dumb asses entertained until the pedo inbred bankers get their bunkers stocked with enough Glenfiddich & kiddy prostitutes to last ’em a few years.

    In fact, I’m convinced Kim Jong isn’t even real. He’s some random chubby Asian dude morphed by some $12/hr NSA employee in Photoshop & easily subbed by extras. It’s easy to control people when you have CCTV cameras on every street corner & every vile text message, porn movie and/or disgusting thing they’ve done on film since they were twelve. Doesn’t take a fucking rocket scientist to figure that shit out.

    Anyone who still believes that political parties, Trump v. Hillary, black v. white, Muslim v. Christian, ANY war EVER … needs a serious time out.

    Seriously here … we’ve been force fed propaganda since birth, it’s pretty much ALL bullshit. Nobody at fault here, it just is what it is. Make peace with it, and what’s next. Encourage others to do so too. Squabbling over these fuckers (ie. Trump, Hillary, Libtards, neo-Nazis – whatever flava of the day corp-owned media comes up with… yada fucking yada) is a fucking waste of time.

    Best use of our time is to share the truth with people you care for, do what you can do, accept what you cannot. Make peace with those you deem worthy (including YOURSELF) … on a daily basis. And breathe. Everything else is optional based on the pair of glasses you choose to wear that day.

    For whatever it’s worth, my 2 cents. Wait … maybe I should rephrase that …

    God bless you all my brothers & sisters. Don’t worry, it’s gonna be OK. It’s all gonna be OK.

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  • Avoidable hospitalisations: Helping our health system get through COVID-19
    Associate Prof George Thomson, Louise Delany, Prof Nick Wilson While it is possible that New Zealand can use intense public health controls to eradicate COVID-19 from the country – we must also plan for other scenarios where thousands of New Zealanders are sick – including many urgently hospitalised.1 Better resilience ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    5 days ago
  • Raise the Bar: 10 questions to ask your employer proposing redundancy
    Kia ora my name is Chloe Ann-King* and I am the founder of Raise the Bar, a campaign and non-profit that gives free legal aid, advocacy and tautoko to hospitality workers in Aotearoa. Right now all over our country hospo workers are being fired at will, having shifts cut or being ...
    PosseBy chloeanneking
    5 days ago
  • An equitable way to support business
    The Herald reports that the government is planning to lend billions of dollars to large businesses to keep them operating during the pandemic. As with mortgage relief, this is necessary: we need companies to stay in business, to reduce the economic damage and help things get restarted again when this ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Hard News: Together Alone
    We're about to do something unprecedented as a nation. We hope that by taking this extraordinary action before a single life in New Zealand has been lost to the deadly novel virus we will save tens of thousands of lives. Our  lives. We'll do it together, in households, in isolation ...
    5 days ago
  • Why timing is everything: ‘A time to refrain from embracing’ starts today
    “There is a time for everything,    and a season for every activity under the heavens.”So writes the author of Ecclesiastes, a book in the Old Testament that’s counted as a ‘wisdom’ book and written as if by an unnamed king of Jerusalem. But who would have thought there would be a time ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    5 days ago
  • Dealing with the Covid-19 Tsunami.
    I was surprised when the prime minister described the Economic Response to Covid-19 package as the ‘largest peacetime government spend in New Zealand's history’. Reflecting – checking through history – I realised that the term ‘spend’ was crucial and the package had no income tax cuts. Even so, it has ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    5 days ago
  • What about renters?
    The government today announced the latest part of its pandemic relief package: a six-month mortgage holiday for people whose incomes have been affected by the pandemic. Which is great, because these people are going to need help, and that's what the government should be doing. At the same time, it ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Living within our means.
    Years ago the Argentine sociologist Carlos Weisman wrote a book titled “Living within our Means.” It was a critique of Argentine society that focused on the paradoxical question of why, in a land of plenty, there was so much economic instability, inequality, corruption and political turmoil. His conclusion was basically ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    6 days ago
  • Transparency and the pandemic
    Parliament will be leading by example and adjourning tomorrow after a special sitting to consider an epidemic notice and state of emergency. Day-to-day oversight of the government will be delegated to a select committee. But that's not the only overight mechanism. The OIA will still be law, and (so far) ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • ‘Overjoyed’: a leading health expert on New Zealand’s coronavirus shutdown, and the challengin...
    Michael Baker, University of Otago Overjoyed. That’s not a word epidemiologists normally use, but that’s how I felt after hearing Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s announcement about New Zealand’s COVID-19 shutdown of everything except essential services for at least four weeks from midnight on Wednesday. More than anything, I just ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    6 days ago
  • One way to solve the housing crisis
    How much homelessness is caused by house hoarding? We're about to find out. The pandemic has destroyed tourism, which means that house hoarders who put their hoarded properties up as short-term tourist rentals are now offering them on the ordinary rental market:Property investors are pulling properties from Airbnb to offer ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • The pros and cons of planting trees to address global warming
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Bruce Lieberman It seems like such a simple, straightforward, empowering idea: plant trees – a lot of trees – all over the world, and watch the planet’s temperature fall. Who doesn’t love a tree or two, even far more – the right ...
    6 days ago
  • Not a grand coalition, but a government of national salvation
    According to Newshub, Simon Bridges is open to joining a “grand coalition” with Labour as we hunker down to go into a month long lockdown. The idea is sound. Before now, the role of the opposition was to scrutinise and oppose. In the context of what almost amounts to a ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    7 days ago
  • Raise the Bar: hospitality workers & wage subsidy entitlements
    Kia ora my name is Chloe Ann-King* and I am the founder of Raise the Bar, a campaign and non-profit that gives free legal aid, advocacy and tautoko to hospitality workers in Aotearoa. Right now all over our country hospo workers are being fired at will, having shifts cut or ...
    PosseBy chloeanneking
    7 days ago
  • Lifting our game against COVID-19
    We need to be lifting our game against COVID-19. You and I need to help those working to prevent the spread of COVID-19 while they’re trying to lift the testing and treatment efforts. We don’t want to be playing this game running backwards. Best to play it solidly forward, from ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    7 days ago
  • The maths and ethics of minimising COVID-19 deaths in NZ
    Prof Tony Blakely, Prof Michael Baker, and Prof Nick Wilson The NZ Government must do more to clearly articulate its COVID-19 strategy: eradication or ‘flattening the curve’ mitigation. But to do so means understanding the maths and ethics of both these strategies. In this blog, we adapt our work for ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    7 days ago
  • All aboard the Covid Train
    A few days ago I was starting to write something about the pandemic, which now seems unconscionable. It took the form of a letter to an agony aunt:“Dear Deidre, I have an ugly confession. I am quite excited by Covid-19.”This is how the piece went:“I’m not a psychopath, honest. Although the ...
    PunditBy Phil Vine
    7 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #12
    Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Climate Feedback Article Review... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Reviews... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... In Just 10 Years, Warming Has Increased the Odds of Disasters The likelihood of extreme events ...
    7 days ago
  • We are all socialists now
    Last week, the government announced a $12 billion initial package to support people during the pandemic. Today, the Reserve Bank is buying government bonds - effectively printing money - to keep up the money supply during the crisis. Normally such moves would have the right apoplectic. Instead, the National Party ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • A plea to experts: safeguard your role in public life
    I am a pundit, somebody who opines and comments on the news. There are no real qualifications to punditry though having a rudimentary way with words and good general knowledge helps. That is one reason there is a constant oversupply of would-be pundits and why it is quite hard to ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    1 week ago
  • Enlightenment when?
    I recently encountered the following prescription from a Faculty of Education at a leading New Zealand University. At first I wondered if it was another product of the postmodern generator (http://www.elsewhere.org/journal/pomo/), designed to create gibberish in the postmodern form, but I’m told it is real: The “schooled” society: Towards the ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    1 week ago
  • What the Crisis Can teach Us
    The coronavirus pandemic has of course had a major impact on individual lives and on societies as a whole. But, long after the crisis has passed (assuming it does), we will begin to realise that its real and lasting significance lies in the lessons it has taught us, if only ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • Hammering home measures to stop COVID-19
    COVID-19 has plunged Aotearoa New Zealand (indeed, the world) into territory that, while maybe not totally unprecedented, certainly hasn’t been seen during the lifetimes of most of us here today. Our borders are closed to non-citizens, we’re being told not to gather in groups of more than 500 outside/100 inside, ...
    PunditBy Andrew Geddis
    1 week ago
  • What does ‘level two’ mean – and why does it matter?
    For the last few weeks, I’ve been urging you to prepare yourself, your family, business, and community for Covid-19. Now it’s time for real action.  Yesterday the director-general of health Dr Ashley Bloomfield announced another 13 confirmed cases of Covid-19 in New Zealand, bringing our total to date to 52. ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    1 week ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #12
    A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week, i.e., Sun, Mar 15, 2020 through Sat, Mar 21, 2020 Editor's Pick Now Isn’t the Time to Forget About Our Climate Change Efforts   Tasha Tilberg, Lindsey Wixson, and Liu Wen photographed ...
    1 week ago
  • Is the Guardian becoming  a real newspaper again?
    by Jan Rivers The article has been corrected to show that it was Ewen MacAskill, former Guardian journalist and not Luke Harding who travelled to meet Edward Snowden with journalist Glenn Greenwald and filmmaker Laura Poitras.  Some of the Guardian’s well-known journalists who did not sign the protest letter are ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Life asserts itself regardless
    by Cultural Worker Late March 2020 amidst the virus. With gigs crashing and burning all around it was without much hope that I called a long standing rest home booking: “ Hi, I’m supposed to be entertaining at your place this afternoon – is it still on?” “”If you don’t ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Politics, the possible, and the pandemic
    Whenever people demand real change from their politicians, we're told that "politics is the art of the possible". The implication is that change isn't possible, so we'd better just get used to the sucky status quo. But now that there's a pandemic, a lot of things we were previously told ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The Only Way Through This Crisis Is Together.
    Together: In leading New Zealand through the Covid-19 Pandemic, the Prime Minister could do a lot worse than allow herself to be guided by the spirit of collective sacrifice and co-operation that animated the New Zealanders of 80 years ago. Most Kiwis alive today have had no opportunity to prove their ...
    1 week ago
  • GFC vs Covid-19
    It is said that generals fight the last war. In the case of the early stages of the Global Financial Crisis (GFC) they had learned from the Great Depression of the 1930s and they fought intelligently and successfully. Later their advice would be ignored in favour of the Austerians who ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    1 week ago
  • Nobody Left Behind.
    Solidarity Forever: All over the world, the arrival of the Covid-19 virus has exposed the fragility of the walls we erect around ourselves and our loved ones. It has shattered our illusions of autonomy and revealed to us how utterly dependent we all are on other human-beings. Finally, we see ...
    1 week ago
  • Rebuilding a truly “Democratic” counter, or a “moderate Republican” bolt-hol...
    Looking across the various arguments for/against the leading candidates to take the Democratic Nomination, you might honestly be very hard pressed to tell. There are a number of things that have now started happening since Amy Klobuchar and “Mayor Pete” Buttigieg both threw the towel in and immediately (and ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Abortion law reform a win for women
    by Daphna Whitmore Abortion is no longer in the Crimes Act in New Zealand. The law reform passed yesterday and now abortion is a medical matter between a woman and her doctor. Many women’s groups and progressive people have campaigned for reform for decades. The women’s liberation movement and some ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • How to spot bogus science stories and read the news like a scientist
    Doug Specht, University of Westminster and Julio Gimenez, University of Westminster When fake news, misreporting and alternative facts are everywhere, reading the news can be a challenge. Not only is there plenty of misinformation about the coronavirus pandemic, climate change and other scientific topics floating around social media, you also ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Why New Zealand needs to continue decisive action to contain coronavirus
    Michael Baker, University of Otago and Nick Wilson, University of Otago With some of the toughest border restrictions and a newly-announced NZ$500 million boost to health services, New Zealand is among a small number of countries with a strategy to contain the COVID-19 pandemic. New Zealand is also fortunate in ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    2 weeks ago
  • Parliament and the pandemic II
    As expected, the government has introduced a sessional order to allow Parliament to operate during the pandemic. You can read it on the Order Paper here, but the short version is that questions and motions can be filed electronicly, select committees can work remotely, and the the Business Committee can ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • When a virus goes viral: pros and cons to the coronavirus spread on social media
    Axel Bruns, Queensland University of Technology; Daniel Angus, Queensland University of Technology; Timothy Graham, Queensland University of Technology, and Tobias R. Keller, Queensland University of Technology News and views about coronavirus has spread via social media in a way that no health emergency has done before. Platforms like Twitter, Facebook, ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • How to survive 14 days of self-isolation
    So you’ve recently returned from overseas, come into contact with someone who tested positive, got a bit of a dry cough yourself or perhaps just want to self isolate for 14 days to avoid other people who might have COVID-19. Here are a few tips and tricks to help get ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Abortion Legislation Bill passes third reading
    Some fave speeches:     ...
    Boots TheoryBy Stephanie Rodgers
    2 weeks ago
  • Why Leadership Matters – More Than Anything.
    Our Good Fortune: Precisely because she has never been an ideologue (she calls herself a “pragmatic idealist”) Jacinda Ardern has a political nimbleness and spontaneity which, when infused with her exceptional emotional intelligence, produces spectacular demonstrations of leadership. Jacinda's empathic political personality contrasts sharply with the less-than-sunny ways of her ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #11, 2020
    2 weeks ago
  • 68-51
    The Abortion Legislation Bill has just passed its third reading, 68-51. NZ First MPs bailed because their referendum amendment didn't pass, but there were plenty of MPs to provide a majority without them. The bill is a long way from perfect - most significantly, it subjects pregnant people who need ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The ‘herd immunity’ route to fighting coronavirus is unethical and potentially dangerous
    As most of the world tries to suppress the coronavirus spread, some countries are going it alone – trying to manage the pandemic through so-called “herd immunity”. Herd immunity means letting a large number of people catch a disease, and hence develop immunity to it, to stop the virus spreading. ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Eight new COVID-19 cases today. It’s no surprise when you look at some numbers
    So, as I sit at home with a very, very slight headache (i.e. not at work when I would otherwise be so), the now familiar figure of Ashley Bloomfield reports eight new confirmed cases of COVID-19  including two in Waikato. A surprise, given that we had just twelve yesterday? No. ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    2 weeks ago
  • The WINZ Paradox versus the new COVID-19 Reality: Get real people, seriously…
    Many who advocated for, and voted for, the current Coalition – particularly those who voted Labour and the Green Party – expected to see a sea change in the reality of social services. A real, deep change of attitude, approach of process through which the system negotiates the difficult and ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago
  • The Air New Zealand bailout
    Stuff reports that the government is going to have to throw $2 - 3 billion at Air new Zealand to get it through the pandemic. Good. While international routes are basicly closed, Air New Zealand is a strategic asset which is vital to our tourism industry, not to mentioning airfreight. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Why NZ’s tough coronavirus travel rules are crucial to protecting lives at home and across the Pac...
    New Zealand’s border restrictions will come with significant job and business losses in the tourism sector, both at home and in the Pacific. But the new travel rules are absolutely necessary to protect the health of New Zealanders and people right across Pacific Islands, because New Zealand is a gateway ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • The tiniest of teeth
    Back in early 2018, as a shoddy legal tactic to try and avoid the prisoner voting ban being formally declared inconsistent with the BORA by the Supreme Court, Justice Minister Andrew Little floated the idea of greater legal protection for human rights. When the Supreme Court case didn't go the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • One simple, common factor to success against COVID-19
    Professor Philip Hill and Associate Professor James Ussher Most infectious diseases have an Achilles heel, the secret is to find it. The question is if we don’t have a drug or a vaccine for COVID-19, is there something else we can do to beat it? Some people estimate that, without ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • National should isolate Simon Bridges
    The Coalition Governments $12.1 billion economic package to help combat the financial effects of COVID-19 was generally well received across the board, even amongst many business leaders who would normally be critical of a Labour led Government.However there was one glaringly obvious exception, Simon Bridges. The so-called leader of the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • How testing for Covid-19 works
    With confirmed cases of Covid-19 in New Zealand up to 12, many influential people are writing open letters and opinion pieces and doing press conferences asking why we aren’t pulling out all the stops and testing thousands of people a day like they are in South Korea. The thing is, ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    2 weeks ago
  • The COVID-19 package and the limits of capitalism
    by Daphna Whitmore The willingness to put human life before business shows that sometimes capitalism is capable of suspending its relentless drive for profit. For a short time it can behave differently. Flatten the curve is the public health message since COVID-19 suddenly overwhelmed the hospital system in northern Italy. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago

  • Week That Was: COVID-19 Alert Level 4
    The COVID-19 situation in New Zealand is moving fast - and to avoid what we've seen overseas - the Government's response must be to move fast too. We're committed to keeping New Zealanders safe and well-informed every step of the way. ...
    2 days ago
  • SPEECH: Green Party Co-leader James Shaw – Ministerial statement on State of National Emergency an...
    Thank you, Mr. Speaker.  The scale of what we face right now is unlike anything we have ever seen before. Overcoming it is our common purpose. ...
    5 days ago
  • Winston Peters urging New Zealanders overseas to stay put
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters is encouraging New Zealanders overseas to stay where they are amid the COVID-19 pandemic. "We are reaching a point where the best option for most New Zealanders offshore is to shelter in place, by preparing to safely stay where they are.” "This includes following the instructions ...
    6 days ago
  • New Zealanders overseas encouraged to shelter in place
    Rt. Hon. Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs Foreign Minister Winston Peters is encouraging the tens of thousands of New Zealanders travelling overseas to consider sheltering in place, in light of COVID-19.  “Since 18 March, we have been warning New Zealanders offshore that the window for flying ...
    6 days ago
  • Ground-breaking abortion law passes, giving NZers compassionate healthcare
    Ground-breaking law has passed that will decriminalise abortion and ensure women and pregnant people seeking abortions have compassionate healthcare. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Package supports Kiwis to put collective health first
    The Green Party says that the measures announced by the Government today will help families and businesses to prioritise our collective health and wellbeing in the response to COVID-19. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Winston Peters: COVID-19 rescue package ‘more significant’ than any worldwide
    As New Zealanders brace for a global downturn due to Covid-19, Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters says his Coalition Government’s rescue package "more significant" than any other he's seen around the world. The Coalition is to reveal a multi-billion-dollar stimulus plan on Tuesday afternoon designed to cushion the economic blow ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Our response to COVID-19
    We know some people are feeling anxious about COVID-19. While the situation is serious, New Zealand has a world-class health system and we’re well-prepared to keep New Zealanders safe. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • ‘Demerit Points System’ will address youth crime
    Darroch Ball MP, Spokesperson for Law and Order A New Zealand First member’s bill drawn from the ballot today seeks to overhaul the youth justice system by instigating a system of demerit points for offences committed by young offenders. “The ‘Youth Justice Demerit Point System’ will put an end to ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Investment in kingfish farming
    Hon. Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund is investing $6 million in a land-based aquaculture pilot to see whether yellowtail kingfish can be commercially farmed in Northland, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. A recirculating land-based aquaculture system will be built and operated ...
    3 weeks ago
  • 1BT grants for Northland planting
    Hon. Shane Jones, Minister for Forestry Forestry Minister Shane Jones has announced two One Billion Trees programme grants of more than $1.18 million to help hapu and iwi in Northland restore whenua and moana. “Many communities around Aotearoa have benefited from One Billion Trees funding since the programme was launched ...
    3 weeks ago
  • New Zealand reaffirms support for Flight MH17 judicial process
    Rt. Hon. Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs Ahead of the start of the criminal trial in the Netherlands on 9 March, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has reaffirmed the need to establish truth, accountability and justice for the downing of Flight MH17 ...
    3 weeks ago
  • PGF investment in green hydrogen
    Rt. Hon. Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister The Government is investing $19.9 million through the Provincial Growth Fund in a game-changing hydrogen energy facility in South Taranaki, Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters announced today. “The development of alternative energy initiatives like this one is vital for the Taranaki region’s economy. ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Coronavirus support for Pacific
    Rt. Hon. Winston Peters, Minister for Foreign Affairs Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand is partnering with countries in the Pacific to ensure they are prepared for, and able to respond to the global threat of Coronavirus (COVID-19). “There are currently no confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the ...
    3 weeks ago
  • Green Party passes landmark law to ensure deaf and disabled voices heard equally in democracy
    Chlöe Swarbrick's Members Bill to support disabled general election candidates has passed into law. ...
    3 weeks ago

  • Tariff concessions on COVID-19 related products
    New Zealand will temporarily remove tariffs on all medical and hygiene imports needed for the COVID-19 response. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker and Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi said today that the New Zealand Customs Service will apply tariff concessions to all diagnostic reagents and testing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Clarification of modification to wage subsidy scheme
    Minister of Finance Grant Robertson has clarified that the changes to the wage subsidy scheme announced yesterday mean that employers should be passing on the full subsidy to workers, except in the case where the person’s normal income is less than the level of the subsidy. “We still want employers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Face masks flowing to DHBs
    Medical face masks from the national reserve supply are now being distributed to District Health Boards, while at the same time local production is being ramped up. Yesterday more than 640,000 masks were sent to DHBS – that is an immediate two week supply, with more to follow in coming ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • COVID-19: Further steps to protect New Zealanders’ jobs
    The Government has made modifications to the wage subsidy scheme to ensure people don’t lose their jobs during the national lockdown. These changes will soften the impact of COVID-19 on workers, families and businesses, and position them to exit the lockdown and look to recovery, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Tax relief for Mycoplasma Bovis farmers
    Farmers whose herds were culled in response to the outbreak of Mycoplasma bovis will be able to minimise the tax treatment of their income in some circumstances. Revenue Minister Stuart Nash says Cabinet has agreed to change the law. It means farmers may be eligible to spread their income over ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • $27 million for NGOs and community groups to continue providing essential services
    A $27 million dollar package, effective immediately, is being provided to social sector services and community groups to ensure they can continue to provide essential support to communities as we stay at home as a nation to stop the spread of COVID-19, Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni announced. “At ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Statement on guilty plea of March 15 terrorist
    “The guilty plea today will provide some relief to the many people whose lives were shattered by what happened on March 15,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said. “These guilty pleas and conviction bring accountability for what happened and also save the families who lost loved ones, those who were injured, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • COVID-19 updates
    The Prime Minister is holding daily press conferences to update New Zealanders on the Government's response to COVID-19. Links to videos and transcripts of these updates below. These transcripts also include All of Government press conferences led by Director Ministry of Health's Director-General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield. 25 March: Live update from the Prime ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Police numbers break through 10,000 mark
    Frontline Police numbers have broken through the 10,000 mark for the first time in history as officers step forward to keep the community safe during the COVID19 lockdown. “Two Police graduations in Auckland and Wellington in the past week have been conducted in unprecedented circumstances,” Police Minister Stuart Nash said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Urgent tax measures for economic recovery
    Urgent legislation has been passed to support the package of economic and social measures needed to recover from the impact of the coronavirus outbreak. “The COVID-19 Response (Taxation and Social Assistance Urgent Measures) Bill will cushion New Zealanders from the worst economic impacts of the COVID-19 outbreak,” said Revenue Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Further support for farmers and growers as drought persists
    From tomorrow, Government support for farmers and growers affected by drought will be expanded and extended across the country, with access to Rural Assistance Payments (RAPS) available throughout the North Island, parts of the South Island and the Chatham Islands, Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced. “These challenging conditions have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • COVID-19: Temporary changes to Education Act
    Parliament has passed amendments to legislation that give the Secretary of Education stronger powers to act in the fight to limit the spread of COVID-19, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “They are part of a suite of changes passed under the COVID-19 Response (Urgent Management Measures) Legislation Bill,” Chris ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar join NZ and Singapore in committing to keeping supply a...
    Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar have joined forces with New Zealand and Singapore by committing to keep supply chains open and remove any existing trade restrictive measures on essential goods, especially medical supplies, in the face of the Covid-19 crisis.  Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker today welcomed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • COVID-19: Rent increase freeze and more protection for tenants
    Immediate freeze on rent increases Tenancies will not be terminated during the lock-down period, unless the parties agree, or in limited circumstances Tenants who had previously given notice can stay in their if they need to stay in the tenancy during the lock-down period Tenants will still be able to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Working together to protect businesses and workers
    As New Zealand unites to lock-down in the fight against COVID-19, the Finance Minister is urging all businesses and workers to stay connected over the next four weeks. “We understand the extreme pressure many businesses are under right now. I know most business owners think of their workers as family ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • State of National Emergency declared to fight COVID-19
    A State of National Emergency has been declared across the country as the Government pulls out all the stops to curtail the spread of COVID-19. “Today we put in place our country’s second ever State of National Emergency as we fight a global pandemic, save New Zealanders’ lives and prevent ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Prime Minister’s statement on State of National Emergency and Epidemic Notice
    Mr Speaker I wish to make a Ministerial Statement under Standing Order 347 in relation to the recent declaration of a State of National Emergency. Having considered the advice of the Director Civil Defence Emergency Management, the Minister of Civil Defence declared a State of National Emergency for the whole of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Deadline for domestic travel extended
    People needing to travel on domestic flights, trains and Cook Strait ferries to get home before the country moves into level 4 lock-down tomorrow night will be able to continue using the passenger services until midnight on Friday, Transport Minister Phil Twyford said today. Domestic passenger services, particularly ferries, have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Mortgage holiday and business finance support schemes to cushion COVID impacts
    The Government, retail banks and the Reserve Bank are today announcing a major financial support package for home owners and businesses affected by the economic impacts of COVID-19. The package will include a six month principal and interest payment holiday for mortgage holders and SME customers whose incomes have been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government working to keep air freight moving
    Minister of Transport Phil Twyford has today announced details of the Government’s support package to keep key air freight moving and ensure New Zealanders retain access to essential goods during the four-week level 4 lockdown. “The Government is working with airlines and air freight operators to ensure New Zealand’s key ...
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  • New Zealand temporarily closes diplomatic posts in Barbados and Myanmar due to COVID-19
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  • Supporting Māori communities and businesses through
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  • Guidelines for hospitality establishments released
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  • Nation steps up to COVID-19 Alert Level 2
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  • PM Address – Covid-19 Update
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  • Joint Ministerial Statement by Singapore and New Zealand -Covid-19 situation
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  • Stronger border measures to protect NZers from COVID-19
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    2 weeks ago
  • Action on indoor gatherings and events to protect public health
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  • New Zealanders advised not to travel overseas
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  • Govt announces aviation relief package
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  • ICYMI Business: Chorus and Stride hopeful
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  • The Bulletin: When are we getting out of lockdown?
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    The SpinoffBy Alex Braae
    1 hour ago
  • Covid-19 live updates, March 30: Australia bans gatherings of more than two as it nears 4,000 cases
    For all The Spinoff’s latest coverage of Covid-19 see here. Read Siouxsie Wiles’s work hereNew Zealand is currently in alert level four. The country is shut down, apart from essential services. For updated official government advice, see here.The Spinoff’s coverage of the Covid-19 outbreak is funded by The Spinoff Members. To support this work, join The ...
    The SpinoffBy The Spinoff
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  • Coronavirus: PM backs families battling to keep seniors in their bubble
    People over 70 and those with underlying health conditions faced the lockdown four days before the rest of the country - but some of the elderly still aren't taking any notice. ...
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  • A photo essay on the one thing to keep you sane in the lockdown: bookshelves
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    2 hours ago
  • Glimmer of hope for Lake Alice victims
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    2 hours ago
  • Emma Espiner: Sunday at Countdown
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    2 hours ago
  • Society’s ‘invisible bonds’ come into the light
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    2 hours ago
  • Practise, practise, practise: The Black Fern and the law
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  • Like being randomly pricked with a pin … and worse
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  • Love in the times of Covid-19
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    2 hours ago
  • The fears of community health and care workers
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    2 hours ago
  • Covid-19: Petitions launched demanding ‘hazard pay’ for essential workers
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    3 hours ago
  • History, hope, and Covid-19
    Covid-19 will transform society, just as the plague and smallpox transformed nations centuries ago. This time, however, we have something they didn’t, writes historian Ayelet Zoran-Rosen.Throughout history, epidemics and pandemics have been a threat to people and states. They strike societies with little or no notice, upend their social and ...
    The SpinoffBy Ayelet Zoran-Rosen
    3 hours ago
  • Christchurch, coronavirus and the ‘new normal’
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    3 hours ago
  • The virus as a Vector for power use switch
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    3 hours ago
  • Facebook hires AAP for NZ fact-checking
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    3 hours ago
  • Govt’s ComCom Covid-19 directions illegal and irrational
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    4 hours ago
  • Public gatherings restricted to two people and all foreign investment proposals scrutinised, in new ...
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    7 hours ago
  • Give people and businesses money now they can pay back later (if and when they can)
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    9 hours ago
  • How Ardern’s coronavirus kindness theme can become contagious
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    16 hours ago
  • Locked down and locked out in Australia
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  • NZ lockdown – Day 4: First death in New Zealand from coronavirus
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    17 hours ago
  • Covid-19 in NZ – Sunday’s numbers charted
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    17 hours ago
  • PNG’s Health Minister Jelta Wong ‘sidelines’ Kramer in virus briefings
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    Evening ReportBy Asia Pacific Report
    18 hours ago
  • First Covid-19 death in New Zealand
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    19 hours ago
  • President Lú-Olo declares Timor-Leste state of emergency over coronavirus
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    Evening ReportBy Asia Pacific Report
    19 hours ago
  • Cut Traffic Speeds To Reduce Pressure On Hospitals, Say Cycling Advocates
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    19 hours ago
  • Pacific coronavirus: French Polynesia Covid-19 tally rises to 34
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    20 hours ago
  • Ohura Medieval Market Day, and the fight to keep a small town standing
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    The SpinoffBy Alex Braae
    20 hours ago
  • Coronavirus – analysing the data makes you think we could do with more of it
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    Point of OrderBy xtrdnry
    21 hours ago
  • The Pink Jumpsuit: An essay about the bubbles we live in
    ‘It seems like someone else’s dream of my past.’ For Emma Neale, the painting ‘Wanderlust’ by Dunedin artist Sharon Singer stirs memories of her childhood, and new understandings of guilt and forgiveness.There were gifts from my father when he came home from overseas trips. Love offerings; a bit like those ...
    The SpinoffBy Emma Neale
    21 hours ago
  • Māori Party delay launch to fight Covid-19
    The Māori Party is delaying the launch of its new-look party to fight Covid-19 in Māori communities. ...
    21 hours ago
  • Resuscitating a virus-ravaged economy – the answer lies in the soil and the exports it generates
    Westpac is forecasting 200,000 jobs will be lost in NZ as a result of the response to the coronavirus pandemic.  Chief economist Dominick Stephens estimates economic activity during the four week lock-down would decline by a third, despite the government and the Reserve Bank having “done a lot to calm ...
    Point of OrderBy tutere44
    22 hours ago
  • Renée, the Lockdown Letters #3: Help yourself to my rhubarb
    In our new series The Lockdown Letters, some of New Zealand’s best writers tell us what they’ve been up to in the days of Covid-19 alert level four. Today, Ōtaki author Renée.I have a wild tomato flopping all over the path down the back of the veg garden. I picked a ...
    The SpinoffBy Renée
    23 hours ago
  • Covid-19 live updates, March 29
    For all The Spinoff’s latest coverage of Covid-19 see here. Read Siouxsie Wiles’s work here. New Zealand is currently in alert level four. The country is shut down, apart from essential services. For updated official government advice, see here. The Spinoff’s coverage of the Covid-19 outbreak is funded by The Spinoff Members. To support this ...
    The SpinoffBy Toby Manhire
    1 day ago
  • Covid-19 scams: Here’s what you need to look out for
    Online criminals have been making the most of Covid-19 by preying on people’s fear and doubt. Here are some of the calling cards of these con artists.With most New Zealanders tucked up at home, digital devices are proving to be critical tools for staying connected with each other, making good ...
    The SpinoffBy Michael Andrew
    1 day ago
  • A visit to the supermarket
    Author and illustrator Sarah Laing draws a rite of passage in The Lockdown. Reprinted with the permission of the author from  Let Me Be Frank, Sarah Laing's blog devoted to "Reading. Writing. Parenting. Angsting." Let Me Be Frank is also the ...
    1 day ago
  • Life on paws: How to deal with your pets during lockdown
    As New Zealand adjusts to a month of lockdown, many pet owners have questions about their furry friends. Alex Casey had a chat with the SPCA – here’s what she learned. AC: My cat had a disgusting abscess on his tail and now has to get his stitches out. ...
    The SpinoffBy Alex Casey
    1 day ago
  • No shops, no launches – but the NZ book scene is finding new ways to reach people under lockdown
    Books editor Catherine Woulfe takes an energising walk around the lockdown block of New Zealand books. When the bubbles settled over us they settled over the books too. Libraries were the first to shut down, then the physical bookstores and finally, the hammer blow: online sales and indeed any notion of ...
    The SpinoffBy The Spinoff Review of Books
    1 day ago
  • Fiji: A paradise under pandemic rules
    Convincing its citizens to take lockdown seriously will be a major challenge for Fiji’s government, writes Mandy De Vries. My husband, Howie, and I are lucky enough to live on the beautiful Coral Coast in Fiji. We started a tourism operation here two years ago which was, until recently, booming. ...
    1 day ago
  • We’re better placed now than GFC or 1987
    New Zealand’s businesses and government are far better prepared for the rapidly escalating global health and economic crisis than they were for the Global Financial Crisis in 2008-09 or the stock market crash in 1987, says Rob Campbell, one of the country’s most experienced corporate leaders. “Executive teams and boards ...
    1 day ago
  • Gavin Ellis: Time for adversity journalism
    Journalism commentator and former editor Gavin Ellis says media organisations play a vital role in keeping the community informed and, if possible, safe. They also have a crucial part to play in the maintenance of public order and morale, ­ just as they did in the 1940s. With the country in ...
    1 day ago
  • We’ve been forgotten: midwife
    The country has millions of protective gowns, gloves and eyewear – midwives ask: Where are they? David Williams reports Two days into a national lockdown some midwives didn’t have any protective equipment, adding to concerns about safeguards for frontline health workers. On Friday, announcements were made by the Health Ministry ...
    1 day ago
  • What lockdown could do for your business idea
    Covid-19 lockdown provides valuable time for planning a new business, as Dr Mary-Ellen Gordon explains You have a great idea for a business. You’ve been working to get it up and going. Then, just as you were starting to gain traction, the entire country and much of the rest of ...
    1 day ago
  • Covid-19: A catch-22 for our most vulnerable
    Low-income workers whose jobs have disappeared thanks to Covid-19 will increasingly need to access benefit income. When this happens, however, they lose a tax credit for their children. As a direct result of the Covid-19 crisis, the Government has improved its rescue policies for business. We now need to see urgent ...
    1 day ago
  • First boredom, then fear
    The strange energy of preparing for level four is over, now the dystopian reality has kicked in. Danyl Mclauchlan writes an essay about home life during a ‘cosy catastrophe’.We start by setting up our home workspaces, covering the kitchen table with such a thick mass of black cables and USB ...
    The SpinoffBy Danyl Mclauchlan
    1 day ago
  • All Australians will be able to access telehealth under new $1.1 billion coronavirus program
    Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Scott Morrison will unvieil on Sunday a $1.1 billion set of measures to make Medicare telehealth services generally available during the coronavirus pandemic and to support mental health, domestic violence and community services. The “Medicare ...
    Evening ReportBy The Conversation
    1 day ago
  • Covid-19 in NZ – Saturday’s numbers charted
    How is Covid-19 spreading within the country? Newsroom is collating information as it's available to paint a picture of what's happening. There were 83 new cases of Covid-19 in New Zealand, down from the previous day's 85 new cases. Details of how many tests have been completed are now bing released ...
    1 day ago
  • NZ lockdown – Day 3: PM Ardern chats with followers on Facebook
    By RNZ News New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern spoke to her followers on Facebook today from her office in Premier House. Her chat lasted about 15 minutes and garnered more than 310,000 views. She discussed wage subsidies for full-time and part-time workers, personal protection equipment (PPE) supplies for ...
    Evening ReportBy Asia Pacific Report
    1 day ago
  • Effective coronavirus messages and fake news: Can we do better?
    COMMENTARY: By Bob Howarth (self-isolating in Australia after his latest trip to Timor-Leste) After days of web surfing for Covid-19 coronavirus news around the Asia-Pacific, two areas that appear to need improving in some countries are official communication and fact checking. So here’s my two cents, rupiah, kina or ...
    Evening ReportBy Asia Pacific Report
    2 days ago
  • The best binges on NEON for these extraordinary times
    Whether it’s a robot uprising, a woman catfishing into the publishing world or a bunch of lovestruck islanders, NEON has you covered. Here’s what we’re bingeing on NEON for the foreseeable future.WestworldJust in time for lockdown, there’s a buzz-worthy show with endless discussion points coming out on a weekly basis. ...
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  • Covid-19: Who really needs to be wearing protective gear?
    There’s been a lot of talk about PPE of late – do we have enough, is it getting to the right people, and who exactly are the right people, anyway? Here’s the latest official advice.The Ministry of Health has now circulated updated advice on the appropriate use of PPE (personal ...
    The SpinoffBy Leonie Hayden
    2 days ago
  • The face of the Covid-19 response: Who is Ashley Bloomfield?
    A month ago, not many had heard of Ashley Bloomfield. But as the Covid-19 response has ramped up, the director-general of health has become a calm, reassuring presence in a time of uncertainty and fear. Rachel Thomas profiles him, in a piece first published on RNZ.Today, Saturday, director-general of health ...
    The SpinoffBy Rachel Thomas
    2 days ago
  • To fish or not to fish – that is the question
    Jim Kayes tests the waters of social media to see how people are coping with being told to avoid their favourite pastime. “There is something ridiculously exhilarating about catching a fish. The thrill might have faded for the salty angler, but for this rookie, the novice still snagging fish hooks ...
    2 days ago
  • New PPE plan leaves community care workers without masks
    The Government yesterday reassured us there are plenty of masks for front line staff dealing with the public. Yet it seems home care workers, who provide up-close personal care for tens of thousands of people every day, won’t be given them. Yesterday two documents hit my inbox. One was a ...
    2 days ago
  • Don’t fret, folks – Hone’s sweet with the mayor so long as he sets up checkpoints and doesn’...
    Hobson’s Choice spokesman Don Brash (a former leader of the National and ACT Parties) is not alone in challenging the justification for tribes claiming to have closed roads to protect their people against Covid. Deputy Prime Minister and New Zealand First leader Winston Peters – his remarks apparently ignored by ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    2 days ago
  • Manaaki Key For Getting Though COVID-19
    Preliminary results from a survey investigating how well-equipped Māori whānau in the South Island are to stay at home for extended periods show that the majority are prepared to manage their short-term needs, but have increasing anxiety about ...
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  • Parliamentary Monitoring And Reporting Is Critical In Dealing With COVID-19 Responses
    "The risk of fraud and corruption is compounded during crises like the COVID-19 pandemic. When quick decisions are necessary to move vast amounts of resources, bribery, fraud and corruption abound," says Suzanne Snively, Chair of Transparency International ...
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  • Pacific coronavirus: Guam still region’s hot spot with 51 plus cases
    By RNZ Pacific Guam remains the Pacific pandemic hot spot with the number of Covid-19 coronavirus cases climbing above 50. On Friday six people tested positive for the coronavirus, bringing the total to 51. Thirteen of the cases are currently in hospital. READ MORE: Al Jazeera live updates – ...
    Evening ReportBy Asia Pacific Report
    2 days ago
  • Outrage after Indonesian politicians get priority testing for Covid-19
    By Mong Palatino Many Indonesian internet users have expressed anger over the decision of the House of Representatives (DPR) to test its 575 members for Covid-19. Indonesia has a population of more than 260 million. As of today, the country has 913 Covid-19 positive cases with 87 deaths. But ...
    Evening ReportBy Asia Pacific Report
    2 days ago
  • Latest numbers: 83 new cases, two in ICU
    New Zealand has 78 new confirmed cases of Covid-19 and five probable cases, the Government has announced today, taking the total to 451. Civil Defence Emergency Management director Sarah Stuart-Black said 12 people are in hospital and two are in intensive care, including one on a ventilator. Twelve are in ...
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  • Covid-19: Total tops 450
    New Zealand has 78 new confirmed cases of Covid-19 and five probable cases, the Government has announced today, taking the total to 451. Civil Defence Emergency Management director Sarah Stuart-Black said 12 people are in hospital and two are in intensive care, including one on a ventilator. Twelve are in ...
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  • ‘We’re ready,’ says NCD chief Parkop with Port Moresby locked down
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    Evening ReportBy Asia Pacific Report
    2 days ago
  • Automatic 3-month Visa Extension Granted For Every Migrant
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    The SpinoffBy Duncan Greive
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  • Magazines and community papers aren’t an essential service, leaving some small towns and elderly w...
    Just a tiny handful of print publications will continue through the lockdown, with only daily newspapers specifically identified as being able to continue. Duncan Greive spoke to publishers of magazines and community newspapers about the impact on them and their communities.Publishers of magazines and community newspapers are reeling, after a ...
    The SpinoffBy Duncan Greive
    2 days ago
  • Coronavirus: Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says no change in Australia’s stance to New Zealand...
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  • Morgan Godfery, The Lockdown Letters #2: I’m never sleeping
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    The SpinoffBy Morgan Godfery
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  • A review of Attraction, the road trip novel we need right now
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    The SpinoffBy Emma Gattey
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  • Iwi do their thing: helping those in need
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