World War?

Written By: - Date published: 1:39 pm, April 7th, 2017 - 221 comments
Categories: International, Syria, war - Tags: , ,

So, it seems the neo-cons are having their way. According to The Guardian – I dare say there are plenty of other sources – the US is now launching cruise missile strikes in Syria, targeting military installations.

CNN reports that the missile launches took place around an hour ago, at 8.45 ET – that would have been 3.45am in Syria. The targets at the military airbase included runways, aircraft and fuel points.

Live update feed

This won’t end well.

221 comments on “World War?”

  1. LivinInTheBay 1

    60 cruise missile by all accounts.

    It will be interesting to see how Putin reacts to this.

    • Maui 1.1

      This is how real sarin attacks are dealt with, using full-body positive-pressure hazmat suits. The scenes are from the attack on the Tokyo subway several years back.

      http://jto.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/n-sarin-b-20150321.jpg

      Evidence from Russian sources suggest it was either chlorine products. Alternatively it was more of the phosphine agents Lizzie Phelan reported on the liberation of Aleppo.

      Read more at https://syrianperspective.com/2017/04/terrorists-and-supporters-growing-ever-desperate-as-syrian-army-breaks-the-back-of-the-siege-in-dayr-el-zor-syrian-army-about-to-liberate-hilfaayaa-and-move-to-eradicate-british-cockroaches-in-lataki.html#Hjsx0tX67XcgodmG.99

    • D'Esterre 1.2

      LivinInTheBay: “It will be interesting to see how Putin reacts to this.”

      The US attack is a catastrophe. Our best hope is that Russia at least can be grownup. No chance of that from Trump and the neocons. Iran is right: the US is the great satan.

      I hope that we here can keep our heads down below the parapet.

      • WILD KATIPO 1.2.1

        Why ?… why be naive about it?

        Why be scared its going to escalate into some sort of conflagration when its clearly a controlled backburning?

        Why not view it from a geopolitical vantage point instead?

        • D'Esterre 1.2.1.1

          Wild Katipo: “Why ?… why be naive about it?

          Why be scared its going to escalate into some sort of conflagration when its clearly a controlled backburning?

          Why not view it from a geopolitical vantage point instead?”

          I’m pleased for you that you can take such a dispassionate view. I’ve seen events of this sort before; it never ends well for the unfortunates on the ground, and the deleterious consequences reverberate throughout subsequent years. I won’t bother listing them: they’re easily enough searchable.

          Here we have the US leaping to catastrophic judgement on an event about which it – and we – do not have full knowledge. Ask who benefits from the precipitating event, whatever it was? Certainly not Syria, which is well on the way to breaking the back of the jihadist conflict. Who has chemical weapons? Not Syria: it surrendered them to the US and Russia several years ago.

          I’m reminded of the weapons of mass destruction myth all those years ago; despite the fact that Iraq had been enduring a sanctions regime that prevented it from acquiring the wherewithal to manufacture such weapons, the west – in particular the US and UK – trumpeted their existence. An illegal invasion and a huge number of deaths told us what many of us already knew: there were no WMDs, and nor could there have been. The disaster of Iraq continues to ripple throughout the ME. And throughout the world, as we know only too well….

          • WILD KATIPO 1.2.1.1.1

            Exactly .

            And that is the lie.

            As I’ve said,… it was an agreed on path for several reasons. Its not dispassionate – its cynical. And its also to allay fears of a a world war three. It aint gonna happen.

            Its a backburning exercise. Not a conflagration. The weapons of mass destruction was the same. Fabrication. And that’s the point I’m making .You’ve had the fake news. You’ve had the bogus reasons for entering Iraq. What more do you want?

            Work it out.

            Or else join the queue’s sucking up the fake news narrative that is being splashed around the globe by the MSM as we speak and continue sucking up to the lie.

            See some of my comments further down the post to see what Im getting at.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1.1.2

            Who has chemical weapons? Not Syria: it surrendered them to the US and Russia several years ago.

            You do realise that it’s possible to manufacture them, eh.

            A number of production pathways can be used to create sarin. The final reaction typically involves attachment of the isopropoxy group to the phosphorus with an alcoholysis with isopropyl alcohol. Two variants of this process are common. One is the reaction of methylphosphonyl difluoride with isopropyl alcohol

            Wikipedia.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1.1.2.1

              PS: always assuming Syria didn’t just lie about relinquishing their chemical weapons.

            • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.1.2.2

              Yes, they can be manufactured – and the US can always lie as it did to justify its invasion of Iraq and Vietnam.

              Going on past evidence it’s the US that’s lying.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                I hate to break it to you, but truth is the first casualty of government. The US is nothing special in this regard.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  I hate to break it to you, but truth is the first casualty of government.

                  No, it’s the first casualty of hierarchy.

                • Morrissey

                  Actually, the U.S. is in a Super League of its own when it comes to lying campaigns. You would know that if you actually knew anything about what you’re talking about.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Thanks Morrissey, I was so wrong about duplicity and governments until you set me straight with your infinite experience of reading the internet.

            • D'Esterre 1.2.1.1.2.3

              OAB: “You do realise that it’s possible to manufacture them, eh.”

              No kidding, Chester….

              The question is why it would have done so. And – critically – why it would use such weapons now, if it had them, given the fact that the tide of war has turned in its favour. In 2013, it surrendered them, and the US was involved in their destruction. If it has no such weapons, ergo, it cannot have used any.

              On the other hand, we have evidence that ISIS has been stockpiling and using chemical weapons. This latest incident has the hallmarks of a false flag attack, designed to white-ant the peace process.

              People should by now be aware of how much propganda regarding Syria that we’re being exposed to. Be sceptical of everything that casts the Assad government in a bad light; we really have little idea how much of it is true.

              And in the meantime, people have died – again – in another unsanctioned attack by the US. Insanity….

        • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1.2

          From a geopolitical perspective the US just committed the greatest of all war crimes by attacking a sovereign nation.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1.2.1

            If the Syrian air force used chemical weapons, I don’t care who degrades their capacity to do.

            If the US has evidence that links the use of Sarin gas to these targets, in common law it’s legal to use force in defence of others. Is it legal for a state to use force to prevent a war crime?

            If not why not?

            As to whether the USA is anyone’s idea of global police, yeah nah. Global Jon Graham Burge more like.

            • DS 1.2.1.2.1.1

              >> Is it legal for a state to use force to prevent a war crime?

              No.

              Force must either be self-defence or authorised by the UN Security Council.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                The USA’s lawyers will no doubt argue that the proliferation of chemical weapons is a clear and present danger to the USA. If they can back that up with evidence that connects the use of Sarin gas to this particular airfield, then what?

                • DS

                  Nothing – the US is not a signatory to the ICC, so is under no obligation to extradite those responsible to the Hague, while it would cheerfully veto any attempt by the Security Council to hold it accountable. Basically, it’s the Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction nonsense all over again, with even less justification (nukes are destructive on a massive scale, chemical weapons may be incredibly cruel are actually very ineffective at destroying anything outside a very localised area).

                  So what you would have instead is the Tony Blair precedent – certain people have to be rather careful where they travel lest they face prosecution.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    …whereupon their lawyers would argue as above.

                    Assuming Assad is the perpetrator, the only valid objection raised thus far is the unilateral nature of the strike.

                    • DS

                      And, assuming they were being tried, the argument would not fly. The case law regarding self defence is clear – you need a crystalised threat (a la the Arab states readying to attack Israel in 1967) that leaves no other option. Another state possessing or using weapons (a la Iraq or Syria) does not constitute self-defence.

                      The unilateral nature of the strike is indeed the problem. If the US strike were signed off by the UN, there would be no problem. As it is, it is illegal.

            • D'Esterre 1.2.1.2.1.2

              OAB: “If the Syrian air force used chemical weapons, I don’t care who degrades their capacity to do.

              If the US has evidence that links the use of Sarin gas to these targets, in common law it’s legal to use force in defence of others. Is it legal for a state to use force to prevent a war crime?”

              Give it up: you’re on the wrong side of the argument here. Draco T Bastard is dead right. Also DS below.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Draco says the attacking another country’s military airbase is the “greatest” of war crimes. Personally I think genocide and mass rape (for example) are far worse.

                You’re entitled to your opinion, of course.

      • Rightly or Wrongly 1.2.2

        A catastrophe?

        A week ago many on the left were clambering for action about the possibility of the death of a 3yr old girl in Afghanistan.

        In Syria dozens of people are gassed to death (including 27 children) and now there is manufactured angst over the US holding Assad to account?

        Don’t Syrians matter? They did a couple of years ago when the left wanted Europe to absorb millions of them – what has changed?

        Or is it the case that a truism of the left is that Trump is the devil and so anything he does is evil even if its the right thing to do?

        Wasn’t that long ago Trump was being accused of of being too friendly with the Russians – now the left is scared Trump will set off war with Russia?

        I think that he has done the right thing sending a message to Assad that chemical warfare is unacceptable – especially against civilians.

        • WILD KATIPO 1.2.2.1

          The difference is that YOU , – like so many on the Left who you accuse of doing,… are naively confusing domestic politics with geopolitical politics and how ‘ bargaining ‘ for self interest is done.

          And trying to draw similarities between the two.

          The incident in Afghanistan is a matter for New Zealand , the integrity of its current govt and its Defense Force – and whether the ICC sees merit in conducting an investigation – something we in NZ have direct control over.

          What has happened in Syria we have less control over bar not getting involved.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.2.2.2

          In Syria dozens of people are gassed to death (including 27 children) and now there is manufactured angst over the US holding Assad to account?

          He’s not holding Assad to account. He’s merely attacking blindly.

          Or is it the case that a truism of the left is that Trump is the devil and so anything he does is evil even if its the right thing to do?

          War crimes, as he just carried out, are not the right thing to do.

          I think that he has done the right thing sending a message to Assad that chemical warfare is unacceptable

          He didn’t send that message though. He sent the message that no matter if he knows the facts or not he will attack.

          It’s nothing more than Gunboat Diplomacy – do as I say or I’m going to blow the shit out of you.

        • Barry 1.2.2.3

          Thanks R or W – the most sensible post on this topic

      • reason 1.2.3

        Lets hope D’Esterre ….otherwise The blood hounds are on the loose again …….. Genocide is in the air

        “When discussing the US in terms of international relations any balanced discussion should center around its illegal acts of aggression, its use of covert violence to impose brutally repressive regimes on victim populations, and its overwhelming predominance as a source of structural violence causing immiseration and death on an unimaginable scale.

        One might object that surely these alleged genocides are then, at best, debatable. That’s the puzzle though; these are not debatable genocides, they are rather blatant. Carpet-bombing; fire-storms; nuclear explosions; massacres from the air, massacres on the ground; whole populations poisoned for generations to come; death -squad killings of community leaders. political leaders, union leaders, intellectuals. artists. teachers; economic destruction; cultural destruction; terror, torture and violent death used to traumatize whole populations and destroy the social fabric of nations. These are all well documented behaviors. How does it come to be that these patterns of behavior could be seen as anything but genocidal. What else could they be?” …. Kieran Robert Kelly ” The context of Iraq Genocide ” 2012

        Pity the people of the middle east …. and their children

    • Poission 1.3

      It will be interesting to see how Putin reacts to this.

      He was notified prior,congress was not.

    • billmurray 1.4

      LivinTheBay,

      I believe that Putin will state that Assad was not responsible and that Russia will still support his Presidency.

      Excellent article by Chris Trotter currently on Bowally Road, I think Chris hits the nail.

      Scary shit is happening.

      Link – http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/

  2. Yup,… there goes the Trump / Putin love in…

    Oh well…. sit back and enjoy whats left…

    FLEETWOOD MAC – Oh Well (1969 UK TV Performance … – YouTube
    Video for oh well fleetwood mac you tube▶ 2:39

  3. Conducted while hosting President Xi. Clear implications for NK relationship.

  4. Carolyn_nth 4

    Al Jazeera is reporting that Trump said the security of the US is at stake…. say what???!!!

    When I was watching AJ English earlier, a commentator said that air strikes will achieve little, but that it would need boots on the ground. Basically, air strikes are a brutally, inhumane cosmetic exercise.

    AJ journo James Bays is now saying it’s a “punitive” attack.

    Russia was warned so there would be no Russian casualty.

    • Keith 4.1

      The security of weapon manufacturer shareholder returns was what he meant!

      • paul andersen 4.1.1

        nailed it.

        • paul andersen 4.1.1.1

          buy shares in the cruise missile company (maybe northrop)

          • paul andersen 4.1.1.1.1

            don the con probably borrowed russian rubles to buy some shares

            • paul andersen 4.1.1.1.1.1

              vladimir will get the cruise missile technology through this, lol

              • Draco T Bastard

                Why would he want to? Russian missile tech is already as good as, if not better, than that of the US.

                • McFlock

                  maybe, maybe not, but everyone has their strengths and weaknesses and tweaks.

                  Always useful to see what’s in the other guy’s hand

                  • dukeofurl

                    The russians were leaders in this sort of missile technology from the Khrushchev era.
                    The first ship sunk by a cruise missile was the israeli destroyer Elat, hit by russian missiles launched by Egypt.

                    • McFlock

                      Yeah, but they also have different design philosophies. Their missile cruisers in the caspian, for example.

                      I mean, there’s probably a significant amount of design convergence (a bit like how a lot of new assault rifles are beginning to look the same these days, as opposed to the significant external and internal differences between the AKM and M16), but at the same time do they have different ways of approaching navigation problems? Have the yanks figured a counter to point defense systems, like maybe jinking and dropping decoys upon passive detection of rapid cannon fire?

                      It’s not like they’d turn down a peek

                    • dukeofurl

                      You dont know what you are talking about. the kalibr missiles can be launched from a range of vessels. Some were fired from subs and a frigate in the Med.
                      The Caspain sea is landlocked so it has smaller sized vessels.

                    • McFlock

                      So you agree with me that the ships in the Caspian are not really consistent with US approaches, which is all I fucking said on that matter?

                    • dukeofurl

                      You still haven’t clarified your claim of ‘ different design philosophies’- what ever that means.
                      For both countries , these sort of winged missiles can be launched by ships, submarines, aircraft.
                      ( INF treaty rules out land launched)
                      Russia has used covettes in Caspian and Med, frigates and submarines ( and I think some of its Bombers but I havent checked)

                      Different versions mean they can be vertically launched ( like US) or from sub tubes or aircraft.
                      http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/05/24/kalibr-russia-naval-system-upping-cruise-missile-game.html

                      Just saying you ‘didnt realise that’ is sufficient , mistakes do happen you know!

                    • McFlock

                      Well, for a slightly more detailed explanation look here. Knew I’d read it somewhere.

                      But if you can’t put the words “design” and “philosophy” together to form a coherent meaning, that’s not actually my fault, so stop pretending it is.

                      Device, especially weapon, evolution is frequently the result of common problems being solved from different perspectives. Some solutions are universally obvious.

                      wings+guidance+power+warhead goes all the way back to the V1, even the Kettering Bug.

                      Other solutions might not be: fuel mix, maybe a better star mapper using a filtered wavelength to see the stars through thicker cloud. Maybe manufacturing to different tolerances makes a change.

                      But I guess the best example of differing design philosophies was when nazi designers were asked to match the Russian T34 tank. Threw out most of the things that made it cheap to mass produce, resulted in an outstanding if unreliable behemoth that couldn’t be produced in decent numbers to change the course of the war. Whereas if they’d just cloned the t34, they would have made more of them and put off the inevitable

      • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2

        +111

  5. exkiwiforces 5

    Well, it was going to happen sooner or later regardless who was POTUS.

    • Maui 5.1

      It could be the start of of a larger strategy, but what intrigues me is that Hilary frames it in psycho-analytic terms implicating Putin “dead fathers looming presence and his delusion” and telling us “that is how Putin thinks”. Thanks Hilary, lets see how far that gets anyone in a chess tournament ..

    • lprent 5.2

      … regardless who was POTUS

      Yes. Last time the Sarin attacks happened against civilian population in rebel held areas, Syria got out of retribution from the US and others because Russia brokered a deal whereby Syria renounced chemical weapons and supposedly destroyed them.

      However it doesn’t look to me that they did. Yes there has been chlorine attacks from Syrian planes without significiant retribution. But no apparent nerve agents.

      Certainly I can’t see any other players there doing this. As far as I am concerned any state or agency escalating into chemical agents especially nerve agents or nuclear weapons or biological weapons just made painted a very large target on themselves and deserves targeting of all of their military infrastructure capable of manufacturing, storing and delivering such terror weapons.

      The downstream consequences of leaving such acts unpunished are extremely disquieting and outright dangerous.

      Somehow I don’t think that Russia will interfere that much

      • marty mars 5.2.1

        + 1 wise words mate.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.2.2

        As far as I am concerned any state or agency escalating into chemical agents especially nerve agents or nuclear weapons or biological weapons just made painted a very large target on themselves and deserves targeting of all of their military infrastructure capable of manufacturing, storing and delivering such terror weapons.

        True but I’d like to see it proved first and we haven’t seen that.

      • Liberal Realist 5.2.3

        Certainly I can’t see any other players there doing this.

        Why would Assad stage a chemical attack on civilians when he know’s for well that doing this would most certainly result in retaliation from the US and their allies? It doesn’t make any sense to me unless he’s lost control of his armed forces?

        You don’t think that the Al Qaeda head choppers don’t have motive to stage a false flag to invite just the type of attack from the US has undertaken?

        It’s been reported that responders to the gas attack were not wearing the full body suits required to prevent secondary exposure, treating victims with bare hands etc.
        I don’t know if this is true but if it is how could the gas that was used be sarin? The exposed responders would be dead by now. Even secondary exposure (e.g. treating victims without protection) to sarin kills quickly.

        • dukeofurl 5.2.3.1

          When US does somthing heinous, it has a ready list of ‘errors and faults’ to blame.
          When Syria does it of course the entire government is too blame.

          Not so sure about the sarin attack, as the photos seem too staged, and of course
          the Sunni states have the means and motive to create an incident like this. We dont really know

        • Psycho Milt 5.2.3.2

          Why would Assad stage a chemical attack on civilians when he know’s for well that doing this would most certainly result in retaliation from the US and their allies?

          Because he doesn’t know that. Last time the US and its allies backed down. The lesson of the last five years for the Assad regime is that it can act with complete impunity – that all by itself answers the question of why it might do something that stupid.

          • Liberal Realist 5.2.3.2.1

            Because he doesn’t know that. Last time the US and its allies backed down.

            Since when was it proven that the Syrian government was the perpetrator of the 2013 Ghouta chemical attack?

            • Psycho Milt 5.2.3.2.1.1

              Since when was it proven that the Soviet government was the perpetrator of the Katyn massacre? “Proven” is a remarkably flexible concept when there are competing interests involved.

              However, even if we ascribe previous chemical warfare attacks in Syria to “person or persons unknown,” the lesson of the last five years for the Assad regime is that it can act with impunity – the current Russian government has seen to that. Today must have been a real shock for the Syrian top brass.

              • Liberal Realist

                Since when was it proven that the Soviet government was the perpetrator of the Katyn massacre? “Proven” is a remarkably flexible concept when there are competing interests involved.

                However, even if we ascribe previous chemical warfare attacks in Syria to “person or persons unknown,” the lesson of the last five years for the Assad regime is that it can act with impunity – the current Russian government has seen to that. Today must have been a real shock for the Syrian top brass.

                Okay I get your point around the flexibility of “Proven”. That said, there’s evidence that Al Qaeda / Al-Nusra perpetrated chemical attacks in 2013.

                Seems to me that the likes of Turkey and the Gulf States are the ones acting with impunity…

                See an excerpt from an article written by Seymour Hersh in 2014:

                “Last May, more than ten members of the al-Nusra Front were arrested in southern Turkey with what local police told the press were two kilograms of sarin. In a 130-page indictment the group was accused of attempting to purchase fuses, piping for the construction of mortars, and chemical precursors for sarin. Five of those arrested were freed after a brief detention. The others, including the ringleader, Haytham Qassab, for whom the prosecutor requested a prison sentence of 25 years, were released pending trial. In the meantime the Turkish press has been rife with speculation that the Erdoğan administration has been covering up the extent of its involvement with the rebels. In a news conference last summer, Aydin Sezgin, Turkey’s ambassador to Moscow, dismissed the arrests and claimed to reporters that the recovered ‘sarin’ was merely ‘anti-freeze’.

                The DIA paper took the arrests as evidence that al-Nusra was expanding its access to chemical weapons. It said Qassab had ‘self-identified’ as a member of al-Nusra, and that he was directly connected to Abd-al-Ghani, the ‘ANF emir for military manufacturing’. Qassab and his associate Khalid Ousta worked with Halit Unalkaya, an employee of a Turkish firm called Zirve Export, who provided ‘price quotes for bulk quantities of sarin precursors’. Abd-al-Ghani’s plan was for two associates to ‘perfect a process for making sarin, then go to Syria to train others to begin large scale production at an unidentified lab in Syria’. The DIA paper said that one of his operatives had purchased a precursor on the ‘Baghdad chemical market’, which ‘has supported at least seven CW efforts since 2004’.

                A series of chemical weapon attacks in March and April 2013 was investigated over the next few months by a special UN mission to Syria. A person with close knowledge of the UN’s activity in Syria told me that there was evidence linking the Syrian opposition to the first gas attack, on 19 March in Khan Al-Assal, a village near Aleppo. In its final report in December, the mission said that at least 19 civilians and one Syrian soldier were among the fatalities, along with scores of injured. It had no mandate to assign responsibility for the attack, but the person with knowledge of the UN’s activities said: ‘Investigators interviewed the people who were there, including the doctors who treated the victims. It was clear that the rebels used the gas. It did not come out in public because no one wanted to know.’”

                *my bold

                From here:

                https://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line

              • Well, yeah, it’s possible there’s all these complicated duplicitous plots involving the foreign enemies of the Syrian regime carrying out false flag attacks designed to discredit the regime, or it’s possible the regime just fought its enemies with the weapons it had. For my money, any theory involving complex and wide-ranging conspiracies that nevertheless remain perfectly secret are of less value than more straightforward explanations, but maybe that’s just me.

          • reason 5.2.3.2.2

            Impunity ????

            Thats the U.S you’ve just described …. The American empire

            Every kid in this video has been traumatized …. or killed …. in U.s.a sponsored wars/ ethnic cleansing /genocide .

            • Psycho Milt 5.2.3.2.2.1

              I’m trying to establish a point to your comment. Is it that the US government also acts with impunity, therefore it’s OK for the Syrian government to gas people? Is it that the US government has somehow just randomly blown up a Syrian air base because it’s free to act with impunity? Is it that you’re just sadly obsessed with American crimes to the exclusion of everything else that happens in the world? Please clarify.

              • reason

                Your playing the fool … or taking me for one ….

                My point is ALL the lies behind the killing …. that you seem relaxed about …

                I suppose its not your kids in the firing line …..

                “For most the US wasn’t committing genocide, it was fighting wars.
                Only .. the Armenian genocide was a war- according to the Turks ; the Holocaust was a war – according to the Germans; the Tutsi genocide; the Herero genocide; Bosnia; even Democratic Kampuchea – all wars according to the perpetrators and their apologists. What is more they are all against insurgents, ‘terrorists’ and guerillas. The difference between US genocides and the others? There isn’t one. The different perspectives on the other hand, are easily explained. The bad things that THEY do are both symptomatic and purposive; the bad things that WE do are aberrant and unintended.. WE act out of honorable motives but may stray or be forced by the nefariousness of our opponents into regrettable acts:; They rationalist their hateful murderousness with excuses which wither in the face of mass death. This simple chauvinism can be very ro0bust and fact-proof, something well attested by the persistence of denial of the Armenian genocide in Turkey….”

                http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/10697-assassination-nation-from-the-phoenix-program-to-predator-drones

                You’d have to be a bone headed idiot to forget all the lies they always tell for their ‘humanitarian ‘ wars … or believe in humanitarian war for that matter.

                : They lied to invade and wage war on the Afghan people. We hunt down 3 year olds as just one result. …. 2001 to now … so many dead

                They spun many lies of chemical nature + nuclear and other assorted terrorist bullshit to invade Iraq and tear its country and people apart ….. still there … still doing it.

                They spun many lies to wage war on and destroy Libya as a contry ….. and a society .

                They lied to invade Vietnam and killed genocidal numbers of Vietnamse in a 100,000 and one different war crimes …. Millions dead

                … and on and on and on http://johnpilger.com/articles/don-t-forget-y

                We should not be supporting head chopping thugs in the destruction of a country http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/05/syria-revolution-aleppo-assad.html ….

                The people have had enough despite “the guts” from people who never risk their own …. or THEIR children.

                …. Their is actually a way to clean up corruption like ( Assads etc ), that does not involve killing 100,000s .
                \
                But as the Poms and Yanks with their Banks plus corporations neck deep in shadow banking/ tax havens….

                which are the lynch pins for corruption …. It all swings on them.

                then nothing will happen there …… and racist Muslim haters like yourself get your prejudices fed with war propaganda…

                Britians tax havens network is probably very symbiotic and helpful for its weapons Industry ….. rip off the poor … and blow them up.

                ….. Bill English does not smell burned human flesh …. he smells trade deal

        • exkiwiforces 5.2.3.3

          “It’s been reported that responders to the gas attack were not wearing the full body suits required to prevent secondary exposure, treating victims with bare hands etc.
          I don’t know if this is true but if it is how could the gas that was used be sarin? The exposed responders would be dead by now. Even secondary exposure (e.g. treating victims without protection) to sarin kills quickly.”

          It depends on the dose, it also appears that chlorine was mixed in with therefore it would mask the sarin and may reduce it lethalness of sarin ie instead of a quick death a slow painful death either way it’s still nasty stuff.

          This was a surprise attack on defenceless people regardless if first responder’s were expecting CBRN attack you would still have casualties. but at reduce level Their Decom drills were very good, but basic stripping clothes of the casualties, hosing them with water before they receive medical care. As I said lastnight about the attack this was a classic CBRN attack using HE ordinance and possibly 2 Chemical bombs from I’ve from video footage.

          • exkiwiforces 5.2.3.3.1

            This is the some of footage I’ve seen. What you would see is the first explosion which is a HE bomb follow by two more. Notice the lack of blast/ debris being throwing up. The second bomb the cloud is quite low to the ground and third has develop a small cloud which then collapse on itself (its a shame it not shown here).

            http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2017/s4648907.htm

            On the Janes defence website: states ISIS are using mustard/ phosphine base chemical agents which cause blistering, burns, blindness etc and I haven’t seen any evidence to say it was a mustard/ phosphine base chemical agents. Its all pointing to a nerve agent more likely to sarin. WHO is conducting tests on a few bodies in Turkey to ID what chemical agent was used.

        • lprent 5.2.3.4

          You look at the evidence coming out after 2013?

          If they aren’t guilty then they sure sniffed a lot of chemicals

        • Venezia 5.2.3.5

          Among the dead were the first helpers on the scene, who did actually succumb to the gas. Reported in the Guardian and Al Jazeera English.

    • Skeptic 5.3

      Agree – the only surprising thing is that the US response has been with conventional weapons.
      The US has a policy that all Nuclear, Chemical and Biological weapons are WMD and as the US doesn’t deploy Chemical or Biological weapons, their policy is to respond to WMD with nukes. I fully expected Damascus to be reduced to a radioactive parking lot when I heard of the use of Chemical weapons by Assad.
      I suspect Russia is well aware of this US policy and has or will lay a fairly heavy threat on Assad – something along the lines of “we don’t want our forces reduced to glow-in-the-dark troops, so we will pull our forces out and let the Yanks have a go if you do it again.”
      Trump will use this as an example for others to look at his regime and “be afraid – be very afraid” – in particular I’m thinking of North Korea.

  6. joe90 6

    But…
    /

    What will we get for bombing Syria besides more debt and a possible long term conflict? Obama needs Congressional approval.— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 29, 2013

  7. Stunned Mullet 7

    Pity they didn’t target Assad.

    [I see from the ‘pending’ queue your apparent intent to just repeat that refrain up and down this thread. One week ban for glorifying death and killing] – Bill

    • exkiwiforces 7.1

      Probably wouldn’t be a wise move to target Assad and god only knows what would happen if the US targeted Assad.

    • North 7.2

      Justified response there Bill re the Stunted Mulllet. Been routinely watching CNN to keep up with daily developments in Washington. Acknowledging that I know bugger all in terms of hard facts (don’t have the time frankly holding down a demanding full time job) ……..but gotta say there’s a massive CNN number going on, Amanpour et al…….”Assad did this evil !” Well, I’m not confident, looking across the wholeness of it, and having regard to authoritative commentary……., to accept that at face value. Iraq and WMD comes to mind. And another thought……..Trump really needs this. The scummy racist Deplorables’ll be ejaculating.

  8. Cinny 8

    FFS how many ‘sides’ are there in Syria now? Increase our refugee quota pronto.

    Agent Orange has been waiting for an excuse, he was given one the other day with the chemical attack, no matter how that went down he’s using it for leverage.

    Many USA citizens brainwashed by terrorism fear will be all accepting of it, don’t question the military, support our brave troops, blah blah

    Stay the fuck out of this one NZ, or is it already too late?

  9. Sabine 9

    ” The airstrikes were carried out less than an hour after the president concluded a dinner with Xi Jinping, the president of China, at his estate in Mar-a-Lago in Florida, sending an unmistakably aggressive message about Mr. Trump’s willingness to use the military power at his disposal.

    Mr. Trump authorized the strike with no congressional approval for the use of force, an assertion of presidential authority that contrasts sharply with the protracted deliberations over the use of force by his predecessor, former President Barack Obama.

    Unlike Mr. Obama, who weighed — and ultimately rejected — the use of a similar strike at targets after Syria used chemical weapons in 2013, Mr. Trump moved with remarkable speed, delivering the punishing military strike barely 72 hours after the devastating chemical attack that killed 80 people this week.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/06/world/middleeast/us-said-to-weigh-military-responses-to-syrian-chemical-attack.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    I very much like this bit here : Mr. Trump authorized the strike with no congressional approval for the use of force,

    let that sink in, this was not authorized by congress – congress shall have the power to declare war

    Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the U.S. Constitution grants Congress the power to declare war. The President, meanwhile, derives the power to direct the military after a Congressional declaration of war from Article II, Section 2, which names the President Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces.

    who really still gives a fuck?

    • Maui 9.1

      Trump has opened himself up to impeachment by Congress, but will be supported by the Clintonistas. How is the real US economy doing ?

      • Sabine 9.1.1

        It matters shit all what the ‘clintonistas’ do, cause a. they not president, b. they not near the white house, c. they don’t hold the Congress nor Senate.

        The presidency is Republican held, unless you want to state that Trump is a closted Clintonista.

        The congress is Republican held, unless you want to call the Republicans and Tea Partier closeted Clintonistas.

        the senate is Republican held, unless you want to call the Republicans and Tea Partier closeted Clintonisas.

        So it fucking matters not one iota what the ‘clintonistas’ would do, cause they ain’t doing shit.

    • Siobhan 9.2

      Exactly.
      Hilary was calling for an airstrike earlier…and Trump was happy to oblige.
      Great bedfellows those two.

      http://www.reuters.com/article/us-people-hillary-clinton-idUSKBN179058

      • Sabine 9.2.1

        So you are saying that Trump is doing what Hillary Clinton says?

        Like really?

        is that like Labour does it too? No matter what Trumps gonna do, you gonna excuse him by saying that should Hillary have won, which she did not cause Trump did, then she would do such and such, and cause Trump is such an impotent fuckwit he will do what Hillary Clinton would do if she’da’won’da’presidency? Like seriously Yeah?

    • shorts 9.3

      its been a long time since the US actually declared war on anyone (world war two)… congress can authorise military engagements (last was iraq in 2003)

      They rally are a rogue state – with none of the so called freedom loving countries prepared to reign them in

      McCully has already come out in support of the US attack

      *sigh*

  10. Ad 10

    Sick.

    And quite a signal for North Korea.

  11. McFlock 11

    Meanwhile, Duterte rattles his sabre in the South China sea.

    I thought the demagogues were going to chill everything the fuck down, geopolitically?

  12. I got a sneaking suspicion that this was an agreed on course… an airfield, Russian officials forewarned to move Russian troops from harms way , and for all we know, Syrian personnel moved out of the vicinity as well …

    I got a feeling this was agreed on… as part of US policy on North Korea and pressuring China… the Russians to this day are not that fond of China…

    So ,.. we pander to the narrative and make a big speech and song and dance about it… cite God a few times , make a few people feel better about it… make Assad a lap dog, hold an inquiry after a suitable amount of time… voila ! … discover it wasn’t Assad after all but those no good rebels,… pardon Assad, and put in that oil pipeline…

    Assad likes it because he gets foreign aid packages, royalty’s from a pipeline, backing from both sides to kill off any rebel opposition , Russia likes it because they get to make an oil pipeline , and Trump likes it because he gets to look as if hes taking risks with Russia… and gets rid of those pesky accusations about Russian influence in his being elected….., win / win.

    Oh Well…

  13. esoteric pineapples 14

    There goes the only vaguely valid argument the “anyone but Clinton” brigade ever had

    • Difference is, Clinton was purchasing arms for ISIS through the Clinton Foundation from monies from Saudi Arabia and keeping the USA military industrial complex in clover – Obama could afford to pull back and go softly softly.

      Here we have a USA president who has been accused of collaboration with the Russians to influence his win.

      What better way to resolve that than bombing an empty airfield suspected by the world press of being the starting point for chemical weapons use by Assad… and making it look like Trump is even taking on the Russians ?

      All it took was a prior agreement and a warning to all personnel in the vicinity to evacuate the premises…

      Nope,… the real target of all this is China… as China is the biggest emerging threat to the USA economy… as it is one of ( if not the biggest ) the largest suppliers of credit to the USA.

      And we all know how the USA views North Korea,.. and we all know who is North Korea’s biggest ally, …. China.

      Oh Well…

      • McFlock 14.1.1

        lol it takes more than a few hours to empty an airfield. Lots of expensive fixed infrastructure.

        Empty airfield? CF funds to ISIS?

        deary me.

        • WILD KATIPO 14.1.1.1

          Lets have a look at precisely what sort of ‘ airfield ‘ we are talking about… a few empty warehouses save for the gas pyrotechnics , a rusty old wire mesh fence, a few abandoned gun emplacements, maybe even a few old fighter jets worth less than a few million- peanuts compared to the gains….

          Remember what they used to bring the USA into the first world war?

          The Lusitania.

          Have a read up on that for a bit and the cargo of arms it carried .

          Deary me…

          • McFlock 14.1.1.1.1

            I bet there wasn’t even a gas attack.

            Hell, the only reason I think there’s a country called Syria is because I first read it in a government supplied textbook!

            • WILD KATIPO 14.1.1.1.1.1

              Were you there witnessing the chemical attacks ?

              Did you witness it?

              Were you there as an intimate to negotiations between all party’s concerned?

              Did you , as an observer even have as much to lose politically as Trump does with accusations of Russian involvement in US elections?

              Have a think.

              • McFlock

                “Thinking”, when taken to the degree of excluding almost all external data, is synonymous with “fantasising”.

                • And that’s precisely where you fall into the trap.

                  ‘External data’.

                  Whose ‘ data’ ?

                  Whose ‘ narrative’?

                  See below for further comment.

                  • McFlock

                    Sigh. Why bother reading more comment that has no information, and denies the possibility of knowing anything.

                    You know what? If, after 40-odd years, I didn’t think I had a rough handle on the different layers of bullshit in the world, I might be an incredulous moron, too.

                    But as it is, experience tells me that although I might be wrong in any specific point, overall I’m in the ballpark more often than not. So I behave accordingly.

                    As it is, I’m getting a bit fucked off with all these victims of what one wag here years ago referred to as “baby’s first cartesian doubt”. Probably just the shitty weather today.

                    • Go ahead- answer the challenge.

                      As an analogy of how geo political diplomacy works , read up on what was found recently in the Lusitania. Don’t just take my word for it.

                      Read it.

                      And I don’t give a shit if you don’t like Trump btw – mean less than nothing to me. Just do your homework.

                      Work out how these things are organised and put into effect. And have a read about the Balfour Agreement as well.

                      Either that or continue to suck up the narrative of the privately owned MSM major outlets. The choice is yours.

                    • McFlock

                      What challenge have you given me to answer?

                      And if the Balfour Declaration (as it was when I was studying it) gets your knickers in a twist, you’ll fucking love Sykes-Picot.

                      And yet both are hardly at the forefront of anyone’s mind when looking at what troops or bombs they will deploy today…

          • joe90 14.1.1.1.2

            Remember what they used to bring the USA into the first world war?

            The Lusitania.

            Congress voted to declare war on Germany on April 6, 1917, two years after the Lusitania sinking.

            • WILD KATIPO 14.1.1.1.2.1

              Have you read what was actually found recently in the hold of the Lusitania?

              Have you?

              • joe90

                Elvis?.
                /

                • Try again and be serious this time.

                  Doesn’t take a lot of effort to find the truth.

                  Or do you really want to continue to be a MSM sucker? And while your at it – have a wee read on the Balfour agreement as well.

                  Maybe the penny will start to drop.

                  • lprent

                    Oh FFS. Go and read about the Zimmerman telegram. Second best bit of wartime intelligence work by the British after the enigma machine.

                    • ‘ The passenger ship Lusitania was carrying munitions when it was sunk by a German submarine in May 1915, documents released by the British Government have revealed. The sinking of the ship with the loss of 1,198 passengers was depicted as an example of German ruthlessness during the First World War.May 2, 2014 ‘

                      Obviously USA produced munitions to supply Britain against Germany. Germany posted warnings against travelling on British bound vessels from the USA – in America.

                      The British knew the sinking of the Lusitania would bring the USA into the war.

                      The Balfour Agreement was conducted primarily by a delegation of European Jews to to ensure the USA entered world war one calling on Jewish financiers from the USA to lobby Congress. That succeeded. The terms of agreement was that after the war was concluded , that a Jewish homeland ( Israel ) was to be created.

                      After the USA entered the war , the salient that Germany held over the allies was withdrawn. Leading to the general feeling of someone ‘selling out ‘ the German war effort.

                      This was backed by the Rothschild’s of England. Funds were withdrawn from Germany from the Rothschild’s and started the inflation which helped to lead to Germany’s defeat and withdrawal.

                      In fact , the Knesset was built entirely by funds from the house of Rothschild from England after the conception of the nation of Israel in 1948 . The Rothschild’s remain patrons of the state of Israel to this day.

                    • dukeofurl

                      “knew the sinking [1915]of the Lusitania would bring the USA into the war.”

                      If they ‘knew that’ – it didnt work.
                      US entered war in 1917 , 2 years later

                      I reality it was the other way round.
                      “In early 1917, Germany decided to resume all-out submarine warfare on every commercial ship headed toward Britain, realizing that this decision would almost certainly mean war with the U.S”

                    • @ dukeofurl

                      ” The Balfour Declaration was a letter dated 2 November 1917 from the United Kingdom’s Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild, a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland. ”

                      Come again , matey?

                    • lprent []

                      It is always fun to educate the profoundly ignorant about the history that they distort.

                      http://www.historyextra.com/article/bbc-history-magazine/telegram-brought-america-first-world-war

                    • Oh , … and a few other things to set the record straight and observe a few historical and political agendas…

                      ” The Balfour Declaration was a letter dated 2 November 1917 from the United Kingdom’s Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild, a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland. It read:

                      ” His Majesty’s government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. ”

                      And while there may seem like a 7 month discrepancy in time, the REAL objectives in the continued lobbying of the USA Congress were clear , – sacrifice a few American lives (approx 116,516 ) for the diplomatic promise ( under the League of Nations with the emphasis on Great Britain ) of the establishment of a homeland for the Jewish people. (Israel ). To which the Rothschild’s banking family of Europe are still regarded as patrons thereof.

                      History. Such a marvelous teacher.

                    • ‘ Profoundly distort.’

                      Interesting.

                      So under the threat of the great lprent and his magic finger on the censor button and renowned legendary intolerance to any challenge to his viewpoint , I say prove it.

                      Back it up.

                      As far as I can see both you and McFlock fall into the same category – and the end result is nowhere. Just entrenched prejudice.

                      Here’s an old Beatles track to sum up the mindset.

                      The Beatles – Hello, Goodbye – YouTube

      • red-blooded 14.1.2

        “Difference is, Clinton was purchasing arms for ISIS through the Clinton Foundation from monies from Saudi Arabia and keeping the USA military industrial complex in clover”

        Bullshit. While there was some excitement before the US election about the fact that Clinton Foundation had received funds from some sources linked to Qatar and Saudi Arabia which were alleged to be also sending money to ISIS, Clinton was actually using this (slight) link to put pressure on these groups to STOP funding ISIS. Here’s what John Pilger had to say about it (link below):
        “In the email sent on August 17 2014, Ms Clinton asked Mr Podesta, who at that time worked under president Barack Obama, to help put “pressure” on Qatar and Saudi Arabia regarding the countries’ alleged support for the terrorist group Isis.

        “We need to use our diplomatic and more traditional intelligence assets to bring pressure on the governments of Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which are providing clandestine financial and logistic support to Isil and other radical Sunni groups in the region,” Ms Clinton wrote.”

        Note too that there were no funds from those sources while Clinton was Sec of State.

        http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/julian-assange-clinton-foundation-isis-same-money-saudi-arabia-qatar-funding-a7397211.html

      • Liberal Realist 14.1.3

        +1
        Perhaps a plan hatched by the CFR, the real power brokers in Washington?

    • mauī 14.2

      Nothing was ever going to change under another establishment president, that’s why basically the whole of rural america voted for anything but Hillary. Still a genuine chance things might change with Trump, but this is a big setback.

      • North 14.2.1

        Rural America ? Rural America doesn’t give a fuck about anything does it…….except rationalisation of its scandalous racism…….and its need to see pumped up ‘Ugly American’ ? Like doubling down on horrendous mistakes of the past, with hands on hearts and all that shit.

        Setback ? Yeah. But not for The Orange. The Deplorables will come flooding back. Now I see that arsehole talking about “No such child of God……” And bidding God to bless America and the entire world. From the pussy grabber. What ???

        Sick Maui.

  14. mac1 15

    So, the US reserves the right unilaterally to punish war crimes anywhere on the globe. A fine global example. Now, who would be safe?

    For starters…….. NZ? The US itself?

    • LOL !,… it was agreed on prior by all the concerned party’s .

      Its a stage set!

      • mac1 15.1.1

        So all the world’s a stage, but it’s not as I like it!

        ” All the world’s a stage,
        And all the men and women merely players;
        They have their exits and their entrances,
        And one man in his time plays many parts……..

        Trump’s got to this part.

        “And then a soldier,
        Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,
        Jealous in honor, sudden and quick in quarrel,
        Seeking the bubble reputation
        Even in the cannon’s mouth.”

        Me, I hope to get to the “sans eyes, sans teeth, sans everything” part.

        • WILD KATIPO 15.1.1.1

          Jilly jolly spiffy for you , old chap – long may you ‘sans’ on about everything.

          And nothing in particular to boot.

          Bravo !

          Nicely done , old boy !

          • mac1 15.1.1.1.1

            It’s the thing about poetry. It makes points for which you may to have to search. I thought someone might find a difficulty with a Shakespeare quote, having to tease out the reasons why this quote is apposite to this topic. Poetry is also succinct, as the following explanation will demonstrate.

            First, Wild Katipo, you raised the idea of the ‘stage set’. So the quote may well support what you said. It’s in line with your own imagery.

            What do I take from this quote, and why did I use it? The obscenity that is war is not new. Shakespeare wrote four hundred years ago. Nothing much has changed, except the lethality.

            My description of Trump as the soldier, or wannabe soldier since we know that he avoided war service himself, who seeks to use war as means of enhancing his own reputation, is very arguable and on topic.

            How accurate is the description of Trump and senior military leaders as “jealous in honour, sudden and quick to quarrel?” Trump’s reaction was quick and he is certainly jealous of his honour, bearing no criticism but rattling off tweets like a nervous machine-gunner at night. Yet his part is that of Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful armed force ever seen. not a poor private.

            The quote also says that men and women play many parts in their lives upon this stage. How many parts does Trump, or any of us play, what is our motivation, how true to our own character, how much directed at the audience and the box-office? What role does Trump see himself in?

            Lastly, if your objection is to a bit of erudition, then that’s your problem. You who quite rightly assert that history is a great teacher above!

            Shakespeare is part of our heritage. He wrote things from a very deep understanding of human folly and character. He is insightful, even in this age, as humans don’t essentially change.

            I’m getting to the last stage of Shakespeare’s seven ages of man. One of the blessings of old age they tell me is the beginning of wisdom. But of course no-one listens to old people, since they know nothing and anyway they live in the past and don’t understand the world of today, eh?

            Is it all just ‘sound and fury, signifying nothing’ as you say?

  15. Keith 16

    So the US blow something else up in someone elses country and even better in a country torn apart by regimes, including the US blowing things up, same shit different day. Whose the enemy and whose the good guys, I can no longer tell and I assume the poor people of Syria cannot either.

    May have hit and airbase or may have hit something else, who will ever really know? But at least those people killed were was with US made explosive missiles by a US corporation who will chinking the champagne glasses together over those sales. But hey the weren’t killed by gas weapons made by I wonder who.

    • Well ,… if indeed there were civilian casualties I would suspect it was poison gas products supplied by the Saudi Arabians to ISIS , who as we all know … are SUNNI Muslims as well.

      Who justify the slaughter of SHIITE Muslims and secular Middle Eastern nations . And why ?

      Because THEY believe they are HERETICS !

      And because a Sunni Kingdom could not risk the political advancement of a Shiite minority in their own country ! That’s why !

      And so that’s why it wasn’t Assad at all – if indeed the gas attacks even happened – it was financially backed with chemical weapons from Saudi Arabia in the FIRST PLACE.

      And as we all know – Saudi Arabia is the oil supplier for the USA.

  16. mauī 17

    We’ve got our own mini-america foreign policy idiot across the ditch.

    The Trump administration informed the Australian government in advance of its plans to launch the Tomahawk missile attack on Syria, Fairfax Media understands.

    Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull had pointedly said before news of the strikes broke that the chemical attack on civilians “cries out for a strong response”.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/malcolm-turnbull-says-syria-chemical-attack-demands-strong-response-as-military-threats-grow-20170406-gvfnqh.html

  17. I don’t recall this mass outbreak of panic and pacifism when Russia started blowing things up in Syria. Any particular reason it’s an imminent threat of world war if the Americans chuck in a few explosives as well?

    • McFlock 18.1

      Well, the Russians blew up the shit they didn’t like to help Assad, and the yanks have blown up the shit the didn’t like in order to try damaging ISIS, but neither has outright intentionally (and with a fuckyou on the side) dropped grade A fucker-people-uppers onto people and places the other people liked.

      The turks shooting down the russian plane caused issues. The yanks might be okay if they avoided hurting any Russians, but it’s a bit foolhardy because the Russians wouldn’t be above leaving their folks in the target zone just to have something to forment a bit of outrage.

      • WILD KATIPO 18.1.1

        1) the Turks are allied to the UN/NATO agreement.

        Until such time as they institute the 10 nation pan Arabic / Muslim Caliphate Erdogan has talked about. With Turkey being the seat of that Caliphate.

        Then we will see REAL fireworks.

        2) the Russians want a secure pipeline through Syria to supply European markets.

        3 ) the USA is allied with Saudi Arabia because it is a long term and secure energy source for American industry.

        4 ) whether we like it or not – historically and presently , – ‘ common folk ‘ are expendable to geo political concerns. And always have been .

        And that’s the cold, hard truth of the matter.

        Period.

        • McFlock 18.1.1.1

          All true.

          All somewhat irrelevant to the point about why the US deliberately attacking Assad regime bases that might have Russian personnel is an escalation, as opposed to NATO/Jordan bombing ISIS or Assad/Russia bombing other rebels.

          • WILD KATIPO 18.1.1.1.1

            You seem to have a severe dislocation to being able to work out the correlations and thus the relationships between the obvious concerned and mutually beneficial party’s involved.

            Have a cup of tea and a biscuit , get past my way of expressing it, draw a deep breath and have a wee think about it.

            • McFlock 18.1.1.1.1.1

              Or, option b, you want to express something, you get to the fucking point and express it clearly.

              • Its been done clearly enough already. Up to you to see it.

                After that – the choice is yours.

                I’ve already provided you with ample reasons.

                But carry on with the anti Trump sentiment if you want- lol – just don’t cry about fake news and the evils of the MSM media.

                • McFlock

                  Its been done clearly enough already. Up to you to see it.

                  In which comment? I must have missed that one where you clearly expressed a coherent thought – although I think I’ve spotted a couple of dogwhistles in your deranged banter.

                  • ” In which comment? I must have missed that one where you clearly expressed a coherent thought ”

                    ———————————————–

                    In answering a barrage of anti Trump opinions I should imagine it is quite easy for you to have missed an ‘expressed coherent thought’.

                    But that is not my problem. It is yours.

                    If you lack the cognitive ability to follow what I have clearly put out before you , then again, that is your problem, not mine. Rest assured. It is quite coherent and logically set out . And it is all here for you to see. If you can follow a chronological sequence and if you can get past your anti Trump sentiments.

                    • McFlock

                      It’s not my anti-Trump sentiments getting in the way, it’s my lack of patience for pretentious fools who aren’t prepared to clearly put their position in one fell swoop.

                      If you have a point, don’t play hard to get. I don’t have the inclination for that shit, because you’ve done nothing to suggest that you’re worth it.

                  • Don’t get angry because you haven’t bothered to read what I’ve clearly stated.

                    That’s the first point.

                    The second is I have no particular inclination to have any tit for tat session.

                    I’ve laid it all out clearly enough for you to follow. Its a simple matter of scrolling down the thread. Its that simple.

                    And I would prefer if you followed that line rather than offer these continual knee jerk reactions . Other than that, I would have to prepare a whole essay just for your perusal. I’m sure there are others that have other contributions to make on the subject , however.

                    • McFlock

                      If I need to scroll down throughout a thread, rather than look at one simple and clear comment of yours, then you obviously haven’t clearly stated anything.

                      You don’t need to write an essay, just get to the fucking point. If you’ve stated your point, link to that comment. It’s not difficult.

                      Most other commenters can express quite nuanced opinions within one or two short paragraphs. Perhaps that’s a skill you could develop.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Wild Katipo is performing The Dance of The Seven Veils, as interpreted by a slightly overweight middle-aged white man in lycra.

                    • @ One Anonymous Bloke

                      And ?

                  • Rightly or Wrongly

                    I suspect WK might be Phil Ure’s cousin? Or perhaps smoking the same strain of electric puha?

                    • Nice comment , lovey.

                      Try mixing it with a little bit of substance next time and maybe it’ll be attractive .Til then ,… a fail.

                    • McFlock

                      the punctuation in the comment above suggests you might be right, but I don’t recall ure going on about the “Rothschilds” so much. Although I didn’t read his comments religiously.

                    • The Rothschild’s is used as an analogy and a historical precedent as an example. Particularly in regards to those whose political predisposition is away from Trump.

                      It strikes me as peculiar that those who are quick to lambaste Trump because of their current political persuasions are so strident in denying obvious historical precedents : which ultimately lead to the same mistakes as their predecessors.

                      For me, I am neither hard Left or hard Right.

                      I am more interested in analyzing the motives of all party’s concerned and making sense of it. And to do that, you have to be dispassionate.

                      Rest assured , I am as interested as you might be in the ‘who’ and the ‘ why’s’ ,… if human loss of life is concerned it is an outrage. But , again dispassionately , I believe we must ascertain the possible motives to find the culprits.This is why I labored on the Rothschild’s as an historical precedent.To demonstrate that the ‘conspiracy theory’ to which we have been conditioned to reject and mock may in fact hold more truth than we are willing to accept at face value.

                      Fake news I cite as a modern example.

                      There have been so many examples of political skulduggery over so many hundreds of years. If we fail to heed past precedents , we go forward into the future at our peril. And as one who is blind.

                      That is why I gave the example of the Rothschild’s and their world influence in the 20th and 21rst century’s. Simply as examples.

                      Peace

                      🙂

                    • Oh , and one last trick,… fresh from TDB site , this song from Johnny Cash , last time on TDB was ‘ Sooner or later Gods gonna cut you down’,… well this time it was ‘ The Man comes around’…

                      Cash speaks where others don’t to me…so I apologise for being a bit terse to you all at times in an unapologetic sort of way…

                      Johnny Cash-The_Man_Comes Around – YouTube

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, it’s an “analogy” for “the culprits” now is it?

                      Truth be told, I’d already guessed that /sarc

                    • ” Oh, it’s an “analogy” for “the culprits” now is it?

                      Truth be told, I’d already guessed that /sarc”

                      Im not going to take on board your hurt feelings or frustrations at not being able to see what most can see when Ive made a statement. And as Ive said, go do some research into those areas offered and educate yourself so at least your in the loop of whats been pointed out.

                      Draw your own conclusions.

                      But whatever you do , please do not carry on like a butthurt newbie with a point to prove. Not a good look.

                    • McFlock

                      The conclusion I’ve drawn is that you’re not just a conspiracy nutter, you’re a cowardly bigot whose says “Rothschilds” when you really want to target an entire cultural group.

                    • McFlock …
                      8 April 2017 at 2:34 pm
                      ” The conclusion I’ve drawn is that you’re not just a conspiracy nutter, you’re a cowardly bigot whose says “Rothschilds” when you really want to target an entire cultural group.”

                      So now ,… you , – because your butthurt and want to practice the same sort of distraction / diversion as the trolls you censor – want to accuse me of A ) racism, B ) Bigotry , and C ) and a ‘ conspiracy nutter’.

                      You are new.

                      Very new.

                      If,… you had gone back and viewed my original comments and done some of your own research instead of relying on me having to hand feed you every scrap of information instead of trying to fall back into diversion , personal accusations and groundless assertions , you might just have seen the original point I was trying to make.

                      However, it is obvious that as soon as your precious Democrat idol Clinton was castigated and outed as a liar it was then that the abuse hurling from you started. Which leads me to believe I am dealing with a new, politically naive dullard that is more interested in identifying with a movement and scoring brownie points than being objective and seeing reality for what it is.

                      This is getting tiresome.

                      I care not for who says they are ‘ Left ‘ or ‘ Right’.

                      I only care about finding the truth. And that truth isn’t to be found buried under layers of biased tribalism or sycophantic political slavish adherence such as the standard that you have demonstrated and tried to pass off as balanced logic.

                      Please do not bother to reply as this is not only becoming wearisome , – but making you look even more desperate as time goes by.

                    • McFlock

                      You care about the truth?

                      You could have also mentioned Hearst.
                      JP Morgan.
                      Zaharoff.
                      Vickers.
                      Carnegie.
                      Dozens of others.

                      But no, you fixated on the Rothschilds.

                      It’s not a diversion to point that out because it’s an indication of the sort of sites that youprobably get your information from. Information you yourself haven’t bothered to support.

                      I might look desperate, but you look to me like you’re spouting racist bullshit.

      • Psycho Milt 18.1.2

        That’s the thing, though – the Turks deliberately shot down a Russian aircraft, and the world is yet to be engulfed in military conflict. Putin’s not going to be chuffed about this, but he wasn’t chuffed about having his fighter jet shot down either. Now, if it were to turn out that the Russian air force had dropped the gas canisters and Trump were to hit their base with 60 cruise missiles, then it would be time to shit yourself and start stockpiling food.

        • McFlock 18.1.2.1

          Fair point, I’m not digging a bunker just yet.
          But it just depends on how much cause Putin has to not be chuffed at all – and much of that is down to luck rather than planning, I fear.

        • WILD KATIPO 18.1.2.2

          @ Psycho Milt

          What did President Trump say about NATO country’s again?… that they would have to finance their own military security exercises against the bogeyman …. Russia???

          Trumps been amiable with Putin.

          Putin wants to supply Europe with an oil pipeline.

          Putin is part of the Bric nations.

          West Europe hate the Bric nations.

          Why?

          Because the Bric nations become independent from the City of London Usury system. The Rothschild’s system. Something that Trump hates also . The Reserve Bank of America is a private bank owned by the Rothschild’s of Europe – in particular the City of London Rothschild’s Group.

          And Turkey – even though Erdogan hasn’t yet consolidated the 10 nation Caliphate as of yet – is still allied to Nato.

          • McFlock 18.1.2.2.1

            The Reserve Bank of America is a private bank owned by the Rothschild’s of Europe

            [citation needed]

            • WILD KATIPO 18.1.2.2.1.1

              Do your research. Its a commonly known fact.

              • McFlock

                Doesn’t mention the Rothschilds at all

                • Draco T Bastard

                  No but it does show that it’s owned by the private banks some of which are most definitely owned by the Rothschild’s.

                  • McFlock

                    so “The Reserve Bank of America is a private bank owned by the Rothschild’s of Europe” in the same way that “the Cooperative Bank is a private bank owned by my beneficiary mate in South Dunedin”.

                    How much of the Federal Reserve do the Rothschilds allegedly own? 1%? 5%? 95%?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      …and why do they get singled out?

                      Why oh why?

                    • Every dollar that the USA borrows is paid back in interest to the Rothschild’s banking Group- ‘ The City of London Square Mile ‘ – . If I recollect , it was Andrew Jackson’s Presidency that was the only time that the USA was truly debt free.

                      That was because he basically commanded the USA Treasury to mint their own coinage / dollars – thus escaping the European banking / usury system that had bound the Monarchies of Europe.

                      It was the 1913 Federal Reserve Act passed under Woodrow Wilson ( while most of Congress was away on the Christmas break ) that brought the Federal Reserve Bank into being.

                      Wilson later expressed his regrets that he had done this and had ‘sold the American people out to European interest’s’…

                      ( I think it was Andrew Jackson from memory . Wouldn’t take much to clarify, however . )

                      Peace.

                      🙂

                    • McFlock

                      Every dollar that the USA borrows is paid back in interest to the Rothschild’s banking Group

                      Every dollar? Really? Are you asserting that the Rothschilds own 100% of every bank that has shares in the Federal Reserve?

                      Be clear. Is that what you are claiming: that the Rothschilds and nobody else own the entire Federal Reserve?

                    • I assume you have read the article provided by Draco.

                      Lets be blunt. If you want to find precise figures , inquire in your own time. Otherwise, nitpick on.

                      And please do not think that this is some kind of victory for you , for it is Pyrrhic in nature. But , … if your hatred for Trump and need for identification with the so called ‘ left’ and thus the Clinton’ s and Democrats in American politics is so strong, – by all means – keep to the illusions of political purity.

                      However ,… here’s an interesting fact :

                      General George Armstrong Custer was a Democrat.

                      Talk to the Lakota Sioux or Northern Cheyenne to see if they would agree that supporting the Democrats was all it was cracked up to be in a historical sense.

                    • McFlock

                      So just to recap, the sole evidence you’re going to rest on to support your claims that not only do the Rothschilds own some of the federal reserve, they get every dollar, with interest, of US national debt is a link from draco that doesn’t demonstrate that the Rothschilds own any of the Fed?

                      Your logic behind the Rothschilds controlling the US economy is “the fed is owned by some banks, the Rothschilds own some banks, therefore the Rothschilds own the fed”.

                      You’re some deep thinker there, fucko

                    • Nice abuse.

                      However, if you are indeed the deep thinker you claim I am not then I would charge you to do your own research. Patently you have not. What you have demonstrated is a desperate clinging to a line of thought to win at all costs.

                      Fine. Carry on.

                      I would have at least thought you had bothered to conduct your own research. You haven’t. Obviously. I am not here to hold your hand. You have been provided with ample data and suggestions to conduct your own fact finding. Instead you would rather hurl abuse.

                      The only problem I have with that attitude is that it is prey to the same kind of thinking that justified John Key and his denials of NZ being a tax haven. Same principal.

                      Do some research and be a little less interested in points scoring than in finding some facts. I trust you are intelligent, prove it. Do some research of your own. As I said, I am not here to hold your hand and spend all day providng linkages for someone who seems more than capable of doing it for themselves.

                      Or,… in a very blunt term of phrase – fuck off, get off your voluminous ass and look it up for yourself instead of being some lazy internet prat who just wants to win brownie points.

                      Peace.

                      🙂

                    • McFlock

                      you make the assertion, you support it. If I researched every stupid statement made by a closet racist who was too cowardly to come out with it up front, I’d have an uncredited phd.

                    • ” if I researched every stupid statement made by a closet racist who was too cowardly to come out with it up front, I’d have an uncredited phd.”

                      Nice abuse.

                      Seems that’s your default position. Do some work.

                      Its been laid out quite clearly , and only you seem to be having the problem here.

                      And having to repeat the same thing over and over gets tedious. Go and do some research. Ive got better things to do than try and jolly along a slow learner hour after hour.

                    • McFlock

                      Here’s a list of the largest banks in the US.
                      They’d all be members of the fed, no?

                      How many are owned by the Rothschilds?

      • weka 18.1.3

        “but it’s a bit foolhardy because the Russians wouldn’t be above leaving their folks in the target zone just to have something to forment a bit of outrage.”

        To what end?

        • McFlock 18.1.3.1

          Putin’s got an election next year and has economic issues. Also recent protests in Russia.

          But then I’m a cynic who thinks putin’s had journailsts and opponents murdered.

          • weka 18.1.3.1.1

            oh, you meant outrage from Russians back home? So similar shit as Tr*mp then.

            • McFlock 18.1.3.1.1.1

              Yeah I reckon it’s just the stage of the election cycle Russia’s in. Geopolitics still a serious consideration, but the other spinning plate is Russian domestic politics.

              Whereas Trump has had the election, and I think there’s a bit of a pivot going there: Bannon’s been kicked back off the NSC and a day or two later trump fires missiles at Assad’s Syria. That all could be the result of considered contemplation of expert advice from a number of expert sources, or it could just be the South Park school of presidential manipulation.

              • weka

                I didn’t know that about Bannon (haven’t been following much of the US stuff recently). So less Team Armageddon and more neocon BAU?

                • McFlock

                  Dunno about neocon BAU yet.

                  The fact that they’re launching means the hawks are on the upper over the pro-russians, as well as the diplomacists who stopped Obama doing it a few years back.

                  But I think the neocons were more about american geopolitical dominance and kicking the proceeds of that to the 1%ers, or at least kicking the US treasury to the 1%ers. I don’t get the same sense of a coherent plan from the current lot yet.

    • @ Psycho Milt

      And thank you as well.

      Major point right there.

      Well done!

    • mauī 18.3

      It’s not like the US haven’t fucked up other countries in the past eh? Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Vietnam, Korea, etc. Say if New Zealand was under insurgent attack you bet we would be calling on Russia for military support if they were one of our strongest allies. Russia was invited in by the democratically elected Syrian government and helped push back terrorists. America invites itself in only for terrorists to benefit.

  18. adam 19

    *Sigh*

    Evil is beaten by evil, and other absurdities are on display today.

    The USA has once again demonstrated why it has given up on Christianity. Why they have given up on a message of love. Why Christians everywhere should be weary of a state out of control, acting out the darker perversions from the Old Testament.

    Luke 6:35

    35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

  19. Sanctuary 20

    Even seasoned cynics who watched the the cynical flim flam from the Russians at the U.N. defending Assad over this would have blanched, and that it was followed by a bit of equally cynical All-American theatre from the USA would have been the cherry on top of that particular grotesque charade of a debate.

    Occam’s razor informs me that Trump’s 180 on Syria is amateur foreign policy by an emotionally driven amateur president. Bluntly, Trump was horrified by the images of the chemical attack and he has done what most people would do if they had the means when presented with pictures of children killed by nerve gas – he lashed out to try and punish the evil doers.

    Whether or not doing the human thing and seeking to be the fist of righteous retaliation against people who don’t hesitate to use chemical warfare against their own defenseless woman and children is good diplomacy is I guess a matter of taste as much as anything.

    Personally, I think allowing your emotions to rule your head is a profoundly and selfishly irresponsible thing to do when you are president of the United States.

    • McFlock 20.1

      True, but I guess at least he’s not a complete sociopath if your suspicions are correct.

      Silver linings, eh…

    • Dont even think its that.

      Again.

      The USA favors Saudi Arabia because it is its major energy supplier.

      Saudi Arabia is SUNNI Muslim.

      ISIS is Sunni Muslim.

      Assad is a secular leader.

      Sunni Muslims believe secular govt’s are INFIDEL govt’s, and Shiite Muslims are HERETICS.

      Saudi Arabia could ill afford a growing Shiite or secular presence opposing them in governance.

      Trump was accused of Russian interference of US elections.

      Saudis have been accused in the past of supplying chemical weapons against Assad.

      Clinton was found to have been using the Clinton Foundation to purchase arms for ISIS from monies from Qatar, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia.

      Obama was reticent to oppose ISIS meaningfully. And let the Russians back Assad unchecked.

      Trump has opposed North Korea.

      Trump has wined and dined the President of China .

      Trump then attacked a vacant airbase in Syria to demonstrate his willingness to conduct war with North Korea in the presence of the President of China.

      USA Congress has backed military ‘sabre rattling ‘ in the South China sea.

      This whole thing has been an exercise in geopolitics and nothing more. To impress upon China that the USA means business regards USA hegemony in the South China seas. And the cost ? … a worn out airfield in Syria with the proviso that both Russian and Syrian personnel were well clear of any air strikes conducted by US bombers.

      • Skeptic 20.2.1

        Hey WK – I think you might wanna cool it a little mate. Some of you comments are waaaay over the top. I also think many of your assertions should have citations.

        eg “The USA favors Saudi Arabia because it is its major energy supplier.
        Saudi Arabia is SUNNI Muslim.
        ISIS is Sunni Muslim.
        Assad is a secular leader.
        Sunni Muslims believe secular govt’s are INFIDEL govt’s, and Shiite Muslims are HERETICS.
        Saudi Arabia could ill afford a growing Shiite or secular presence opposing them in governance.”

        The broad brush linkage here is tenuous at best without specific citations – for instance the term “Sunni” is like “Protestant” and as we all know there are a myriad of views within both definitions.

        Also – “The Reserve Bank of America is a private bank owned by the Rothschild’s of Europe – in particular the City of London Rothschild’s Group.”

        This sounds and is something that’s almost a direct quote from Hal Lindsay’s extreme right “Late Great Planet Earth” and the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” forgery.

        As this is a left-wing website, any right-wing – especially extreme right-wing – utterances are and will be treated with disdain.

        My advice – watch your facts and keep them very, very separate from opinions.

        Back to the point of the article – Why Trump has elected to launch Tomahawks now when Obama didn’t. The answer is contained in the political theory of “realpolitik”. Different timing – different circumstances, different relationships, different threat/perceived threats, any combination of these and other factors, PLUS advice given/rejected/accepted by experts/agencies etc.

        While we might speculate as to reasons, we can only estimate as to consequences – my guess is the Russians will huff and puff but will wear it on the chin – the US military is far, far too powerful for Russia to even consider taking on. This may well be an indirect warning to Trump’s visitor from China, both as to what might be in store for North Korea and China itself if she doesn’t pull her head in over the South China Sea issues.
        If I were the fat boy leading “the world’s most secretive state”, I’d be shitting bricks by now, because Trump just issued a real big warning. He’d do well to remember Trump has THAAD, stealth, JDAMS, JSOWS and WD80s up his sleeve.

        • WILD KATIPO 20.2.1.1

          Nah mate…

          “The USA favors Saudi Arabia because it is its major energy supplier.
          Saudi Arabia is SUNNI Muslim.
          ISIS is Sunni Muslim.
          Assad is a secular leader.
          Sunni Muslims believe secular govt’s are INFIDEL govt’s, and Shiite Muslims are HERETICS.
          Saudi Arabia could ill afford a growing Shiite or secular presence opposing them in governance.”

          Facts are the facts,… brutal to your ears or not.

          Example :

          You take your shoes off on entering a Marae because

          A) the Wahine cant be bothered to sweep up after you ?

          Or

          B ) its a sign of respect?

          It would behoove you to choose the latter.

          Why ?… not only it is having respect for that culture , – it is also because there are protocols to be followed. No different from recognizing the difference between Sunni Muslims and Shiite Muslims. Or Catholic tradition and Protestant traditions.

          They are intrinsically different in their religious / cultural observations.

          NOW : introduce the concept of both POWER and MONEY.

          If you have ears to listen you will see how the above can have an immediate influence on how the above cultural values can be easily overridden. Similar to how neo liberalism has overridden western democracy’s. Same principle, –
          different mechanisms employed.

          Do I need to remind you of Bastion Point?

          As for the rest of what I have said in this post , – like McFlock , – I advise you also to scroll down the thread and see the full intent of my comments.

          • Skeptic 20.2.1.1.1

            All of which has precious little to do with Trump’s decision to launch Tomahawks and with possible consequences. I don’t think Trump gave a toss about Sunni/Shiite differences. Maori protocols have bugger all to do with the topic in question as well. Nor do power & money or cultural values have anything to do with the article either.

            That was my point and – well – congratulations – you’ve proved it.

            In about 18 months or so, we’ll now what the relevant decision factors were, (they’ll be “leaked” as per usual) so our speculation in a tiny country at the other end of the Earth is kinda mindless? Yeah? That’s why I suggested you cool it – it was kinda embarrassing.

            • WILD KATIPO 20.2.1.1.1.1

              Problem is, you deny cultural values and the influence of geo political aspects all in one fowl stroke. Simplistic thinking .

              You – like so many others – fail to see any correlations. So , for you ,… it gets down to what you see in front of you rather than what you can perceive, No wonder the MSM is so successful. You can neither absorb general principles of historic note nor discern its practice in modern terms.

              You seem to be focused on the immediate emotive visual aspects of pictures of small children being gassed or dramatic story’s of airfields being bombed . Now whether that happened or not Ill leave that for you to decide. Pick a side.

              As to the motives and who actually did it, I would prefer a more analytical approach. Such as – ask yourself – who gains from this sort of incident?

              And why?

              Who could possibly benefit ?

              Thus far not many have even attempted to answer that – including yourself – just a knee jerk reactionary motion of a collective ‘ we hate Donald Trump ‘ because,… because we just do !!! ”

              Try again, please.

              • Skeptic

                Sorry Wk , but I haven’t denied any values, cultural or otherwise. Incidentally, it’s “fell swoop”, not “fowl (as in chicken) stroke”. And there’s nothing at all simple about the Syrian situation – it’s probably the most complex situation anywhere right now.
                As for correlations and historical perspective – well let’s just say that as an MA with a history minor and a strong ME content, you so far off beam your comment about blind acceptance of MSM is ludicrous in the extreme.
                Sorry – haven’t seen the pictures other than what’s been shoveled on the idiot box, but have read widely on the complexities of Syria, WMD and US politics in the ME.
                So, your question about “qui bono” is very much at the heart of this debate – so well done for correct identification of the problem. Now, break it down – short term benefits, long term goals and intermediate aims. When you’ve got some answers to those questions we’ll have a semi-literate hypothesis. When the full story come out – and this is usually, but not always, in 18 months time, we can test the hypothesis against the facts, thereby increasing our overall knowledge.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 20.3

      Obama walked away from his “red line”: this action has been in the tool-box for a while.

    • Morrissey 20.4

      A deep-thinking moral giant calling itself “Sanctuary” has been enthusing about the most recent case of American selective morality.

      Perhaps “Sanctuary” can inform us when we should bomb Israel? Now? Tomorrow?

      Unlike the case with Syria, there is not the slightest doubt about that evil regime’s systematic use of chemical weapons on the trapped enclave of Gaza.

  20. On the plus side, I’m so going to enjoy seeing the Russian ambassador complaining to the Security Council about this terrible crime against the Syrian people, only to have any prospect of a resolution dashed by a US veto…

    • Ah , but it wont get that far ,… at least … behind closed doors. The fake news will still be the fake news, … and we as the plebiscites will still be enraged and encouraged to take sides… cannon fodder as we are and always have been …

      But to those important – or deemed important … the charade and the games will go on.

      No matter how many 3 year old children die.

      It is all about power.

      And that power backed up by those who have the financial clout to make certain events appear to ‘happen’.

      And the rest of the world as we know it will follow on blindly , adsorbing the narrative and becoming enraged and going to fight a war that was only ever conceived by those who had the finance and the means to stage the event as planned… with its premeditated outcome…

      Like the wolves , we are pack ‘animals’ ,… needing a sense of hierarchy and leadership, … and so we follow on … the difference is, … wolves don’t destroy each other in wholesale terms to achieve their objectives , nor to do they destroy the environment to prove a point. No wonder the Native Americans called them their ‘ teachers’…

      The Hidden Life of Wolves | National Geographic – YouTube
      Video for wolves pack hierarchy youtube▶ 2:35

    • Morrissey 22.2

      ???

      Russia has been fighting ISIS in Syria. The United States has supported ISIS in Syria. Your kind of “enjoyment” is possible only for the most depraved and poorly informed “consumers” of virtually unaltered State Department talking points masquerading as news.

      No doubt you’re fully on board with Trump’s call for “civilized nations” to support his bombing runs.

  21. ropata 23

    Trump nails it (back in 2013)

    Be prepared, there is a small chance that our horrendous leadership could unknowingly lead us into World War III.— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 31, 2013

  22. Probably ,… or we could say those who wish to deflect an issue under pressure of accusations.

    We ( supposedly ) no longer live under McCarthyism or Reaganism and the former USSR is broken up and part of the so called modern global economy.

    Why is it so hard then to not see collaboration in geopolitical politics?

    Are we still stuck in the age of ‘ them’ against ‘ us’ ?

    Back to the 1950’s ?

    Is it so hard to see and extricate ourselves from modern MSM narratives to see that those old rules no longer apply and that there has indeed been agreement among those with a shared interest of the global pie?

  23. Paul Campbell 25

    Sigh – War Again

  24. Paul Campbell 26

    what’s it good for

  25. Antoine 27

    Standard authors might like to have a think about whether this is the most useful way to title and tagline a post

    [Can’t see anything wrong with the tags, but I wasn’t that keen on the title either. However there are ways to express that, and telling authors what to do isn’t one of them. Please read the Policy. – weka]

  26. Tui 28

    frump wants to start a war so he can profit selling tomahawk missiles!

    ~ Tui

  27. Fly OnTheWall 29

    This country, that country … come on you guys, we all know who the bad guys are … and they’re not limited to any country. They own ALL of our asses. We got lazy, busy, blah blah blah … and fell asleep at the wheel. This is just a well-planned, perfectly orchestrated shit show to keep our dumb asses entertained until the pedo inbred bankers get their bunkers stocked with enough Glenfiddich & kiddy prostitutes to last ’em a few years.

    In fact, I’m convinced Kim Jong isn’t even real. He’s some random chubby Asian dude morphed by some $12/hr NSA employee in Photoshop & easily subbed by extras. It’s easy to control people when you have CCTV cameras on every street corner & every vile text message, porn movie and/or disgusting thing they’ve done on film since they were twelve. Doesn’t take a fucking rocket scientist to figure that shit out.

    Anyone who still believes that political parties, Trump v. Hillary, black v. white, Muslim v. Christian, ANY war EVER … needs a serious time out.

    Seriously here … we’ve been force fed propaganda since birth, it’s pretty much ALL bullshit. Nobody at fault here, it just is what it is. Make peace with it, and what’s next. Encourage others to do so too. Squabbling over these fuckers (ie. Trump, Hillary, Libtards, neo-Nazis – whatever flava of the day corp-owned media comes up with… yada fucking yada) is a fucking waste of time.

    Best use of our time is to share the truth with people you care for, do what you can do, accept what you cannot. Make peace with those you deem worthy (including YOURSELF) … on a daily basis. And breathe. Everything else is optional based on the pair of glasses you choose to wear that day.

    For whatever it’s worth, my 2 cents. Wait … maybe I should rephrase that …

    God bless you all my brothers & sisters. Don’t worry, it’s gonna be OK. It’s all gonna be OK.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • A prediction
    There was another police chase in Christchurch this morning, resulting in a crash which killed one person and injured five more. Because someone died, the chase is being investigated by the Independent Police Conduct Authority. And based on previous reports by the IPCA, we know how it will go: the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 hours ago
  • Climate Change: The Zero Carbon Bill
    Just a month ago we saw the biggest protest in a generation as people marched to demand stronger action on climate change. A core demand of the protesters was to strengthen the Zero Carbon Bill's target to net-zero by 2040. So what is the government's response? Judging by the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 hours ago
  • Zombie ants, updated
    Back in 2010, I wrote about the strange tale of the zombie ants, which do the bidding of their fungal overlords. (They’re not an isolated example; a range of parasites change their hosts’ behaviour. See here and here for example – though as you’ll find, the toxoplasmosis story may be ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    7 hours ago
  • Paying For Our Pakeha “Guilt” And “Privilege”.
    Shouldn't That Be: "Wrong White Crowd"? Rather than apportion guilt, would it not have been wiser for the makers of Land Of The Long White Cloud to accept that the Pakeha of 2019 are not – and never will be – “Europeans”? Just as contemporary Maori are not – and ...
    9 hours ago
  • A Bodyguard of Truths.
    One, Two, Many Truths: With the collapse of “actually existing socialism” in 1991, the universities of the West found themselves saddled with a new mission. With their ideological competitors now soundly defeated they were no longer required to demonstrate the superiority of capitalist values. Their job now was to cement ...
    9 hours ago
  • A call to unionists
    by the Council of Disobedient Women   We call on the Council of Trade Unions to show some fortitude and take a stand with your sisters. Unionists know that there is a material world, otherwise workers could simply identify out of poverty. They could declare themselves Well Paid. Why stop ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    23 hours ago
  • Sophistry and bullshit
    I spent some time reading the Regulatory Impact Statement and Bill of Rights Act advice for the government's odious control order scheme today. I am not impressed with either of them. Starting with the RIS, it is built on some pretty questionable assumptions. For example:Unless individuals have been convicted of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • I’m so fly, I’m #NoFly!
    #NoFly: Walking the talk on climate change, by Shaun Hendy. BWB Texts, 2019. Reviewed by Robert McLachlan In June 2018, Swede Maja Rosén founded We stay on the ground with a pledge not to fly in 2019, and a goal of persuading 100,000 other Swedes to join her. In August, ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 day ago
  • Punishing the young
    We all know that NZ First is a party of and for old people who hate the young. But they've topped their previous pedophobia with a proposal that all young people be forced to do 100 hours community work:NZ First wants all young people to do 100 hours of community ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • Journalism, clickbait, & ideas of classical beauty – but not science
    A couple days ago the NZ Herald published a story with the headline, “Science says Bella Hadid is world’s most beautiful woman“, and followed up with the ridiculous statement that Supermodel Bella Hadid has been declared as the world’s most beautiful woman following a scientific study into what constitutes as ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    1 day ago
  • Is Simon’s Smile Sustainable?
    A Sustainable Proposition: With as much as 18 percent of the electorate declaring itself “undecided” about who to vote for, there is obviously plenty of space for a party like former Green Party member, Vernon Tava's, about-to-be-launched "Sustainable NZ Party" to move into. The most hospitable political territory for such ...
    1 day ago
  • What the actual Hell?
    Keir Starmer has hinted that Labour might vote in favour of the Johnson government's shoddy deal, with the proviso that a second referendum is attached:Speaking to BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show, he said: “We will see what that looks like but it makes sense to say that by whatever ...
    1 day ago
  • Hard News: Dealer’s Choice, an oral history from Planet 1994
    In 1994, I was the editor for an issue of Planet magazine focused on cannabis, its culture and the prospects for the end of its prohibition. Part of that issue was an interview with 'Ringo', an experienced cannabis dealer.I recently posted my essay from that issue, and I figured it ...
    3 days ago
  • The invasion of women’s sports by men: some facts
    Dr Helen Waite, sports sociologist and former elite athlete, on the invasion of women’s sport by men and the anti-scientific and misogynist ideology used to rationalise it.   ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    3 days ago
  • Remainers starting to sound like fascists
    As Brexit comes to a grisly conclusion (perhaps) people on all sides are saying intemperate and uwise things.  Some, like the Daly Mail, have been doing it for years.People as normally level headed as Jon Lansman are calling for automatic deselection of MPs who vote against a (likely) Labour three ...
    3 days ago
  • Labour MPs supporting Johnson’s turd-sandwich deal?
    I find this unbelievable:
    I've got one source saying more Labour MPs than expected are mulling whether to vote for the deal - including names who were not on the letter to Juncker and Tusk— Emilio Casalicchio (@e_casalicchio) 17 October 2019 I've compiled a list of possible reasons why Labour ...
    4 days ago
  • Why do we need control orders again?
    On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Bullshitting the Minister
    On Monday, the Hit and Run inquiry heard from NZDF's former director of special operations, who claimed that the defence Minister knew everything about the Operation Burnham raid. Today, the inquiry heard from that (former) Minister - and it turns out that he didn't know nearly as much as NZDF ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Speaker: Extinction Rebellion is not a cult (but ecstasy for the people)
    Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
    4 days ago
  • We need to bring the police under control
    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    4 days ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    5 days ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    5 days ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
    Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    5 days ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    5 days ago
  • Asking for food
    There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    5 days ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
    John MacCormick Over the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    5 days ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    6 days ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    6 days ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    6 days ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    6 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    7 days ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    1 week ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    1 week ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    1 week ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    1 week ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    1 week ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    1 week ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Is this study legit? 5 questions to ask when reading news stories of medical research
    Hassan Vally, La Trobe University Who doesn’t want to know if drinking that second or third cup of coffee a day will improve your memory, or if sleeping too much increases your risk of a heart attack? We’re invested in staying healthy and many of us are interested in reading ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    2 weeks ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    2 weeks ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    2 weeks ago

  • Ngāi Tahu CEO appointed to NZ-China Council
    Minister for Māori Development, Nanaia Mahuta, has selected Arihia Bennett MNZM, Chief Executive Officer of Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu, as the Te Puni Kōkiri appointed representative on the New Zealand-China Council. The New Zealand-China Council (the Council) was established in 2012 as a New Zealand led and funded organisation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Southern Response claims move to EQC
    Responsibility for processing the small number of Southern Response claims still to be settled will be transferred to EQC by the end of the year. “As claim numbers reduce, it no longer makes sense for the Crown to have two organisations processing the remaining Canterbury claims,” Grant Robertson says. “Since ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • Bowel screening starts in Whanganui
    Health Minister David Clark is encouraging Whanganui residents to take up the opportunity for free bowel screening, which can detect cancer early when it’s easier to treat.   Over the next two years 12,000 Whanganui locals, aged 60 to 74 will be invited to participate in the National Bowel Screening ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • Pacific Peoples Minister to attend Our Ocean Conference in Norway
    Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio, heads to Oslo today to represent New Zealand at the sixth Our Ocean Conference, which is being hosted by the Norwegian Government from the 23-24 October. “The Our Ocean Conference mobilises real action on issues like marine plastic pollution and the impacts of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government announces 27 percent increase in Trades Academy places
    Two secondary-school initiatives are being expanded as part of the Government’s plan to see more young New Zealanders take up a trade to help close the skills gap.   This includes the largest single increase in Trades Academy places in recent years. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Education Minister Chris ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures Conference: Connection...
    Session 4: Pacific Connectivity – Youth, Media and New Opportunities   Kia ora tatou katoa and Warm Pacific greetings to one and all. Representatives of Tainui, the local people of the land, or manawhenua – the indigenous peoples of this area – have welcomed you this morning in accordance with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago