Worth 1000 words

Written By: - Date published: 10:25 am, December 16th, 2009 - 72 comments
Categories: climate change - Tags:

nick-anderson-cartoonCartoon by Nick Anderson.

72 comments on “Worth 1000 words”

  1. fizzleplug 1

    That guy with the emails looks like he’ll do ok after global warming crushes all those too stupid to get off the tracks. Might even rifle through the other guy’s wallet. Bound to be some lunch money in there.

    • roger nome 1.1

      hmmm – so according to fiz, if you’re born on a low-lying area in a developing country, you’re stupid. Now i feel free to discount anything i read that’s authored by you.

      • ben 1.1.1

        according to fiz, if you’re born on a low-lying area in a developing country, you’re stupid

        Boy that’s a silly comment. Back of the class for you, Rog.

        • roger nome 1.1.1.1

          not really – it’s a serious issue. I’m just tired of morons like you who have such a callous attitude, that may well sink all of us. That ain’t cool.

        • felix 1.1.1.2

          Who do you imagine he was referring to as “those too stupid to get off the tracks.” then, ben?

          • ben 1.1.1.2.1

            Not people born on a low-lying area in a developing country. That’s just making sh*t up.

            • felix 1.1.1.2.1.1

              Then who, ben? Serious question.

              If you’re going to deny the interpretation you should really offer a plausible alternative.

              • fizzleplug

                Or you could take the words at face value without applying some deeper subtext.

                Guy with moronic posture, looking baffled by pieces of paper is on tracks. Guy waving the paper (albeit looking hysterical) isn’t on tracks. Hands up if you know who is likely to survive the train passing?

                Not everything in this world is serious people. Lighten up.

          • Tim Ellis 1.1.1.2.2

            felix, I interpreted the stupid person as the one who is paying attention to the hysterical fellow with the emails. I don’t know how anybody would interpret the person on the tracks as somebody living in low lying areas.

            • felix 1.1.1.2.2.1

              Thanks Tim, we were actually analysing fizzleplug’s interpretation, not the cartoon itself.

              Not that it matters as fizz reckons it didn’t mean anything anyway.

    • ben 1.2

      lol

      Might even rifle through the other guy’s wallet

      Very good!

    • Galeandra 1.3

      Yeah, I’ll feel better, too,if me and my iwi get a few cents for ETS trading while the rest of the place goes to hell.

      If today’s Tara Daily News is anything to go by it’s going to come up roses…Will Fisher AAP get about 18 column inches on “Don’t Fear Global Warming.” He says ‘the planet will survive and flourish’..”Who knows, maybe pineapples will grow in Poland” and whole nother buch of stuff. Pennies from heaven.

      It was an irony as two pages over was an even larger Washington Post article on the 10 year Murray Darling drought and its impact on agriculture there. I guess that’s another example of media balance.

      BTW I’d just read the post about the ‘bought priesthood’ but no lol.

  2. vto 2

    So how much are sea levels going to rise? I heard a while ago maybe 40cm over the next 100 years or so bt it seems to have recently been ramped up to 1-2m. Just curious. We have an opportunity to get hold of some coastal acreage and too much rise will wash it all away!

    • fizzleplug 2.1

      I say go for it!

    • lprent 2.2

      Depends on the melting in the West Antarctica ice sheet and the Greenland ice cap. The 40cm was from the IPCC AR4 that was essentially finished in 2005 and released in 2007.

      It didn’t include most of the expected melting in those sheets because the research hadn’t been done for long enough to eliminate seasonal or cyclic vagaries. This is one of the . I always refer to the IPCC reports as conservative.

      Since then there has been a pile of research done, some of which I’ve pointed out in some of my posts. The 1-2 metres is what the people working in that area are now calling the conservative confirmed estimates. This is probably what will be in the IPCC AR5 report (that process started earlier this year).

      I think that they are still way too conservative both about the volumes and time frames (some of the recent data about East Antarctica icecap wasting is really quite scary). But conservative is what the IPCC reports are for.

      • vto 2.2.1

        hmmmmmm. Thanks lprent.

        Christchurch as a whole would be a goner.

        It would seem to me that the danger would be at least as much about the rise in water tables in lowish lying areas as the position of the high tide mark and wave etc action.

        • vto 2.2.1.1

          Mind you I have always like the idea of building a house on lowish pier-type concrete columns (think Chch pier) and then letting the land wash away to beach and then tide as the sea rises. Would be quite exciting having a beach and ocean all around. It would also save going through the RMA process to get such a pad.

        • lprent 2.2.1.2

          Yep. That is what is showing up in the atolls, which are the early warning ‘canaries’ for what causes the population and food creation shifts.

          Atolls pretty much rely on a freshwater ‘bubble’ under the atolls. These are getting hit by storm surges as well as the existing sea-level rises over the last century and forming larger brackish water. That hits plants badly because they draw water from the fresh water bubble. That hits the food crops that can be grown, and people cannot live on fish alone. There are a lot of examples of this happening now, and some atolls are being evacuated or planned to be.

          Of course atolls have a separate climate change problem contributing to their issues. in many areas the corals have actually bleached and died because of the rapid rises in water temperatures and loss of the temperature sensitive algae that they are in symbiosis with. The corals die because the rate of increase in water temperatures (and decreases where currents have shifted) has been too fast for the usual migrations. So there are a *lot* of dead corals around.

          Bad time to live on an atoll. But also a bad time to live on a sea level flood water plain. The same seawater intrusions will happen there long before you get your feet wet. Of course bearing in mind the rate that the water from some of those water tables is being sucked up, that is happening anyway.

      • Andrei 2.2.2

        “There’s a train a-comin”

        The 1-2 metres is what the people working in that area are now calling the conservative confirmed estimates. This is probably what will be in the IPCC AR5 report (that process started earlier this year).

        And my guess is “the people working in that area” along with many others are going to finish their days working as hotel doormen after they bet hit by it.

        The days of laying it thick to get the grant money for next year are over and science will hopefully get back to what it is supposed to be about and healthy skepticism will be back in fashion.

  3. grumpy 3

    Thanks VTO. I’m looking at buying a bach in the Sounds. Do you think the prices will come down, or will the Sounds come to me?

  4. roger nome 4

    dunno grumpy – the climate change refugees may come to you and take your property at gun point. You never know.

    • grumpy 4.1

      Nah, I think they’ll go for the higher ground. After you’ve lost your island the last thing you would want is waterfront property.

      Perhaps the MacKenzie Basin?

  5. ben 5

    The seaside property market is a test of the plausibility of sea level rises. Judging from the value of property at Eastbourne I’d say nobody much believes it.

    • roger nome 5.1

      depends how soon you’re planning on selling your investment property. Ben palm-face plant.

    • felix 5.2

      Judging from the value of property at Eastbourne I’d say nobody much believes it.

      Or knows much about it.

      A more meaningful index would be to see where climate scientists are buying or selling property, surely.

      • grumpy 5.2.1

        I think you’re on to something here felix. If we find a climate scientist with a waterfront property should we “out” him?

        • felix 5.2.1.1

          I don’t know. If you find a skeptic selling waterfront property should you put your head in bucket? Who gives a shit?

          The point is it’s ridiculous to assume that everyone buying property knows what they’re doing – I think that’s pretty obviously not the case. However a putting-your-money-where-your-mouth-is index might be interesting.

          roger is absolutely right though, time is the most important factor to consider. Without that the whole idea is absurd.

          • grumpy 5.2.1.1.1

            I think we are onto a good thing here felix.

            An index of sceptics selling waterfront property v believers buying it would be a bloody good indication of credibility.

            Look farward to some real bargains in Sumner.

            • felix 5.2.1.1.1.1

              Up on the hill at the eastern end, perhaps…

              But yeah, in principle that’d be a good prediction market

  6. roger nome 6

    well, then all their piss and crap will flow downstream and cover your lovely resort, and their kids will raid your property for any choice toys …..

  7. vto 7

    So nobody know how much sea levels are predicted to rise?

    I thought the science was settled

    • roger nome 7.1

      So if holland were to play Australia in a cricket test match in Sydney, i would say, “bet on Australia to win”. You would say “tell me exactly how much by, or else you have no reason to believe that they’ll win”. Never quite grasped the idea of logic hey VTO?

      • grumpy 7.1.1

        Roger, your reasoning is flawed.

        If you are correct about AGW, there will be no Holland, therefore no cricket Test.

        • roger nome 7.1.1.1

          heh – for someone who claims to be grumpy, you have a pretty up-beat sense of humor.

          • grumpy 7.1.1.1.1

            Well, it’s a pretty slow day in the lead up to Christmas – and we are talking about a bloody cartoon!

  8. singularian 8

    Funny world you live in Rodger.

    I want to know if r0b is still 100% behind the ‘science’ of AGW?

    It looks like the lawsuits are starting to roll so maybe we’ll have some answers on the corruption of data in the next year or so.

  9. tsmithfield 9

    I don’t believe the e-mails in question show any indication of a global conspiracy amongst scientists. However, I think there is plenty of evidence in the e-mails that demonstrates the the scientists in question have on occasions manipulated the data and the process to exaggerate the strength of warming and attempted to shut critics out of the debate.

    This cannot be good for the credibility of any science.

    • Rob Carr 9.1

      It’s not good for the credibility but I don’t think that the estimates range is really any different to it. There was already people who have no evidence of tampering data that got far higher predictions than them…

  10. Doug 10

    At last the British are onto the fraud that’s Global Warming.
    http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/146138

    • Pascal's bookie 10.1

      Awesome stuff. No really. Folks should check it out.

      (But mentioning such articles exist, or pondering as to why would be ‘attacking a strawman’ and likely to make ben cry.)

      Hard to pick a fav, but 15 is good:

      15) Professor Plimer, Professor of Geology and Earth Sciences at the University of Adelaide, stated that the idea of taking a single trace gas in the atmosphere, accusing it and finding it guilty of total responsibility for climate change, is an “absurdity’

      2 is gooder…

      2) Man-made carbon dioxide emissions throughout human history constitute less than 0.00022 percent of the total naturally emitted from the mantle of the earth during geological history.

      If it wasn’t the Express I’d suspect they were taking the piss.

    • Matt 10.2

      Well if the Express says it it must be true…

  11. Why are these comments reading like something I would expect to read at kiwiblog?

    [lprent: Beats the hell out of me. I know what you mean – looks like the juvies and students are on holiday. But they aren’t bad enough for me to debug. ]

  12. Doug 12

    mickysavage
    Why are these comments reading like something I would expect to read at kiwiblog?
    Well maybe you are batting for the wrong side.

  13. felix 13

    Marvin Gaye knows what’s going on. ben has no idea.

  14. walter 14

    You’ve got me thinking, we’re currently giving directions to an architect for the design of a new home. I figured it prudent to stipulate it be built to withstand higher higher winds than our zone already requires, and we’re already way above the nearest flood zone.

    Now I wonder what other climate future proofing measures we might incorporate? I don’t envisage doomsday is around the corner, but I do think that insurance won’t be paying out for weather events in the near future. What will the kiwi home of the future look like?

    • vto 14.1

      Like Lockwoods. Only ones to survive Cyclone Tracy in Darwin. Try that.

    • grumpy 14.2

      A concrete bunker on the side of a hill?

    • Rob Carr 14.3

      I imagine the standard home will look the same. Sea walls can protect us from most the sea level rises. Its all the poor developing countries and our farms(via increased salt levels) that will be suffering.

      • grumpy 14.3.1

        Interesting, I have a property where the 1st aquifer level is only 0.5m below the surface (the 2nd aquifer is artesian).
        I suppose this means that the level of the 1st aquifer will be above ground level – time to look at rice growing?

        • Rob Carr 14.3.1.1

          Only if it is an aquifer that seawater can reach. If it is rain water collecting on the rock beneath I don’t imagine it will change. Could be fun to grow rice though 😛

          • lprent 14.3.1.1.1

            That was why I specified the coastal part. The mixing mechanics of aquifers at the sea shore are pretty interesting because of the relative densities of and lack of mixing between fresh and brackish water. But there is always a period when there is external change when the mixing gets more intense….

        • lprent 14.3.1.2

          It won’t worry you if you’re a long way from the shore. That is probably the case if you have an artesian aquifer below. Sounds like the main issue you have to worry about is replenishment ‘upstream’ for the first aq, and usually draw off compared to replenishment on the artesian. Plus the usual irrigation issues of evaporative salt accretion.

          Don’t want to get like the mid-west or the murray basi.

      • vto 14.3.2

        Rob Carr, where would you place a seawall in Chch to protect the city and its seaside suburbs? I don’t think it is viable or even possible.

    • felix 14.4

      Not sure how they’ll look but they’ll be functioning a bit like this.

  15. vto 15

    ha ha, yes well the Council may have to relent on its bizarre policy of limiting housing on the hills at a minimum at least.

  16. That is actually quite celever, unlike Sean hannity who said “I dont believe in global warming at all”

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    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • A sensible crackdown
    The government has released its Arms Legislation Bill, containing the second tranche of changes to gun laws following the March 15 massacre. And it all looks quite sensible: a national gun register, higher penalties for illegal possession and dealing, tighter restrictions on arms dealers and shooting clubs, and a shorter ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • California bans private prisons
    Private prisons are a stain on humanity. Prison operators explicitly profit from human misery, then lobby for longer prisons terms so they can keep on profiting. And in the US, prison companies run not only local and state prisons, but also Donald Trump's immigration concentration camps. Faced with this moral ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Why PPPs are a bad idea
    When National was in power, they were very keen on Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) - basicly, using private companies to finance public infrastructure as a way of hiding debt from the public. They were keen on using them for everything - roads, schools, hospitals. But as the UK shows, that "service" ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A Movement That No Longer Moves.
    Moving And Shaking: There was a time when people spoke matter-of-factly about the “labour movement” – a political phenomenon understood to embrace much more than the Labour Party. Included within the term’s definition was the whole trade union movement – many of whose members looked upon the Labour Party as ...
    1 week ago
  • NZ ‘left’ politically embracing extreme postmodernism
    by Philip Ferguson Much of the left, even people who formally identify as marxists, have collapsed politically in the face of postmodern gender theory of the sort pioneered by American philosopher Judith Butler. For Butler even biological sex is socially constructed. “If the immutable character of sex is contested, perhaps ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The obvious question
    The media is reporting that the (alleged) Labour party sexual assaulter has resigned from their job at Parliament, which means hopefully he won't be turning up there making people feel unsafe in future. Good. But as with everything about this scandal, it just raises other questions. Most significantly: why the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The moment I found out that you found out, I acted swiftly
    By Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern I am every bit as angry as you are. I am every bit as disappointed as you must be. The people with power, oversight and the ability to do something about these processes within the Labour Party should be ashamed. Whoever those people are, I ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • This is why people hate property developers
    Property developers think there is an "oversupply" of houses in Auckland:High turnover rates and falling prices may be a sign that there are too many new houses going in to some parts of Auckland, commentators say. [...] Property developer David Whitburn said there was a "bit of an oversupply" in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Australia to Pacific: “Fuck you, you can all drown”
    World leaders are meeting in New York in two weeks for the 2019 Climate Action Summit, where they are expected to announce new and more ambitious targets to stop the world from burning. But the Australian Prime Minister won't be there, despite being in the USA at the time:Scott Morrison ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Implausible ignorance
    Labour Party president Nigel Haworth resigned yesterday over the party's sexual assault scandal. But while that's good news, its unlikely to take away the stench of a coverup. Because according to Paula Bennett in Parliament yesterday, pretty much everyone in the Prime Minister's office was involved as well:I have been ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Labour’s Fatal Flaw.
     Two-Faced? Labour insiders' commitment to the neoliberal status quo puts them at odds with their party’s membership; its trade union affiliates; and a majority of Labour voters, but this only serves to strengthen the perception they have of themselves as a special elite. Among the lesser breeds, they’ll talk up a ...
    1 week ago
  • Ten reasons the Tories do NOT want an election
    There has been a lot of talk about Boris Johnson wanting an election, and he has blustered with great gusto about 'chicken' Jeremy Corbyn refusing one, but I think there are many reasons why he is secretly glad he has been refused the opportunity:The Tories are an utter rabble,tearing themselves ...
    1 week ago
  • Prorogation Illegal, rule Scottish judges
    Scottish appeal court judges have declared that Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament in the run-up to the October Brexit deadline is unlawful. The three judges, chaired by Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, overturned an earlier ruling that the courts did not have the powers to interfere in the prime ...
    1 week ago
  • Let me explain what I meant by Everyday New Zealanders
    By Simon Bridges. The following is a press release from the office of Simon Bridges, leader of The National Party. Key ora, New Zealand. Happy Maori Language Week. Look, I’m writing to you today because I want to clear something up. There’s been a lot of kerfuffle around some things ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Yes, the SIS is subject to the Public Records Act
    I understand there's some stuff going round about how the SIS "was removed from the list of public offices covered by the Public Records Act in 2017". The context of course being their records derived from US torture, which will be disposed of or sealed. The good news is that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • An evidence-based discussion of the Canadian fluoride/IQ study
    Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Australia in denial
    Australia is burning down again, and meanwhile its natural disaster minister is denying climate change:Australia’s minister responsible for drought and natural disasters, David Littleproud, has said that he doesn’t “know if climate change is manmade”. Clarifying earlier comments that the question is “irrelevant” when considering the Coalition government’s response to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Philippines activist speaking on the Duterte tyranny
    Auckland Philippines Solidarity is excited to host Professor Judy Taguiwalo for a speaking tour of NZ in September. She is a well-known activist in the Philippines and was a political prisoner under the Marcos dictatorship. Professor Taguiwalo briefly served as a Cabinet member under President Duterte but was forced from ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Disgust
    I have no special insights to offer on the Labour sexual assault coverup. All I have is disgust. Disgust that an organisation could fail its people so badly. Disgust that they punished the victims rather than the perpetrator. Disgust that its party hacks are apparently blaming the victims for demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women calls out Greens’ censorship
    This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Member’s Day: End of Life Choice, part 3
    Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Flight to Los Angeles turned back after passengers decide they don’t want to go anymore
    An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
    There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    2 weeks ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 weeks ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    2 weeks ago

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