Wouldn’t you be embarrassed if…..?

Written By: - Date published: 1:28 pm, October 15th, 2008 - 40 comments
Categories: election 2008, national, same old national - Tags: ,

I have to declare – yes, I am an urban liberal. So I would be embarrassed if a member of my family said this:

The National Party’s candidate for New Plymouth (Jonathan Young) says homosexuality is a choice and strongly objects to it being seen as a “normal alternative“:

Jonathan Young’s views, printed in the Taranaki Daily Times at the weekend, angered GayNZ.com readers in New Plymouth who contacted us. “One of my associates was an ex-lesbian,” Young told the newspaper. “She discovered through her own journey and talking to others that a lot of things happened to her in her childhood that affected her deeply and caused her to become [homosexual].

“One of the things I do strongly object to in terms of the people who have made this choice is the presentation of it as a normal alternative,” he concluded.

The article goes onto say:

Young, 50, was Senior Minister of CityChurch Waitakere in West Auckland for 18 years prior to moving back to his birthplace in Taranaki this year. He is one of the nine children of Venn Young, the long-serving National Party politician who championed homosexual law reform and became well-known for his failed attempt to legalise ‘homosexual acts’ in 1975. GayNZ.com has attempted to contact Young via phone and email, but has not received a response as yet.

That’s not quite the fresh image I thought National was looking for? I wonder what Mr Key thinks of his candidates clearly stated opinion? But then again Mr Key did oppose civil unions, despite having no problems personally with them…

40 comments on “Wouldn’t you be embarrassed if…..? ”

  1. Daveski 1

    I think it is difficult if not dangerous to use conscience matters to categorise political parties. While I’m sure the balance is different in Labour, you could equally take comments from conservative Christians in Labour (I assume they still exist!) and say it’s not a good look for Labour.

    On these types of issues, party lines are almost useless. Try another line of attack.

  2. John Stevens 2

    My god, another christian for the National party. He may have this opinion based on his religous beleifs. At least he is not saying to kill homos like ‘the religion of peace’.

    I think you will find under National people are allowed to be more opiniated than Labour MPs.

  3. randal 3

    I was embarrassed last night to listen to all of john keys lies. He keeps talking about his economic experience but he never actually made anything. there never was a john keys and co. furthermore he knows that one solution for new zealands economy is specialised niche manufacturing but no pronouncements on that score either. natoinal is an embarassment fullstop.

  4. John, I’m not worried about whether they’re opinionated or not, I’m worried about their opinions.

  5. higherstandard 5

    Specialised niche manufacturing – do tell. Examples please sounds fascinating.

    I would have thought most manufacturers in NZ niche or otherwise have moved their manufacturing offshore.

    [there are hundreds of thousands of people employed in manufacturing in NZ, many in small high-tech industries, we need to encourage that further. We can’t get richer exporting primary goods and providing services to each other. SP]

  6. insider 6

    I’d be more embarassed by a government MP saying stoning people was ok as long as it wasn;t in NZ.

    Wonder what Dover and Taito think about gays

  7. Scribe 7

    Good points insider.

    Don’t forget Ross Robertson. What about Sua William Si’o?

  8. insider 8

    Forgot to add Steve, this is a democracy with a range of views in society. It’s hardly surprising some things are said you don’t agree with. Not everyone in Labour agrees with everything that is their policy – I thought you liked diversity?

  9. Scribe 9

    insider,

    you know full well that words like “tolerance” and “diversity” are only applicable to certain sectors of society.

    “You must tolerate me, but don’t even expect me to tolerate you”

  10. Nick 10

    Bloody chinless scarf-wearers.

  11. Pascal's bookie 11

    Young told the newspaper. “She discovered through her own journey and talking to others that a lot of things happened to her in her childhood that affected her deeply and caused her to become [homosexual].

    “One of the things I do strongly object to in terms of the people who have made this choice is the presentation of it as a normal alternative,’ he concluded.

    So which is it? A choice, or something caused by external factors?

    Whatever else he is, surely we can agree this guy’s an idiot who hasn’t thought out his position here.

  12. Daveski 12

    PB – I have no doubt given my personal values and beliefs agreeing with you the that the guy is an idiot.

    However, in other sectors of society (including many core Labour voters) he would be seen as being too liberal!

    The point many have made is don’t use this type of crap scenario to score petty politic points. In fact, I think it scores an own goal 🙂

    But yes, I think the guy is an idiot 🙂

  13. Paul 13

    I’m just completely confused by the use of the phrase “was an ex-lesbian” and why he thinks that’s relevent ….

  14. Scribe 14

    Paul,

    I’m just completely confused by the use of the phrase “was an ex-lesbian’ and why he thinks that’s relevent

    It’s probably said to support his claim that sexual preference is a choice that can be changed, rather than something innate, like being a redhead, that can’t be changed.

  15. Dom 15

    Yes, and we gays are to blame for everything from the hole in the ozone layer to the Wall St crash.

    Look, there are stupid views over homosexuality across all parties so you can’t blame National for this but you can blame them for not keeping a lid on it – Labour has been good at reining in their moral conservatives – Key needs to do the same…

    BTW, our family lived not far from Venn Young’s house in Hawera back in the 1980s. If this is the same guy I remember (he’s 10 years older than me) he was a tosser to one of my sisters at school.

  16. Scribe 16

    Dom,

    Look, there are stupid views over homosexuality across all parties so you can’t blame National for this but you can blame them for not keeping a lid on it – Labour has been good at reining in their moral conservatives – Key needs to do the same

    Thanks for proving the point I made above about selective tolerance.

    The prosecution rests.

  17. Tim Ellis 17

    Jonathan Young’s views are in line with a large proportion of New Zealanders. Don’t they have a right to have their views expressed as well? [of course he has the right to express his opinions, just as Dancer and the rest of us have the right to express how appalling we find them and how we think they make him unsuitable for a role as MP and cast doubts upon the leadership of his party. The right to free speech is not a right to not be criticised for what you say. SP]

    It seems to me that the greater hazard is telling people how they must view the world. Apparently John Key should be embarrassed for not actively opposing sporting contacts with South Africa, despite many people at the time actively encouraging it.

    There are many conservative Muslims in New Zealand who have very different views about society than the Rainbow Labour faction. Are we supposed to ignore that Mr Choudhary is a Labour MP?

    Or is it only the Right who is supposed to be embarrassed by its bigots?

  18. Dom 18

    Scribe – you can’t rest – you haven’t actually made a coherent point.

    Choudhary voted for civil unions Tim, choose another example.

  19. Tim Ellis 19

    SP, as a courtesy, it would be helpful if you add a separate comment rather than adding rebuttal into the middle of my comment, otherwise I don’t get to see that there are comments on it.

    You may have missed that Ashraf Choudhary has said that he believes the Koran is correct to advocate stoning of homosexuals and adulterers.

    Dom, Choudhary only swung in behind the Civil Unions Bill following pressure from fellow Labour MPs. It clearly isn’t his private view. He also abstained on prostitution law reform.

    There are many NZ First MPs who voted against many liberal causes. That doesn’t appear to be a barrier to them being joined at the hip to the Labour Party in government. Winston Peters voted against civil unions, prostitution reform, and the Homosexual Law Reform Bill. There seems to be one rule for Winston, and another rule for National candidates.

  20. Scribe 20

    Dom,

    You want moral conservatives to be reined in and not say what they think. And you’ve lauded Helen Clark for doing so.

  21. higherstandard 21

    Aha Dom I always thought that the CFC effect on the ozone layer was a bit of a stretch, don’t let Eve know that the economic crash is a gay plot she’ll be crestfallen. 🙂

    Were you present on the grassy knoll as well ?

  22. Rex Widerstrom 22

    Yes HS, homosexuals were present on the grassy knoll. Oswald (well known for having hardline Soviet views which included, of course, hostility toward homosexuality) was nobly trying to stop all the buttsecs when the rifle misfired. Three times.

    (Well it makes as much sense as all the other JFK conspiracy theories out there) 😀

    Back on topic:

    Kudos to Young for forthrightly and openly stating his views and beliefs so voters can judge him accordingly.

    If I were in New Plymouth… I’d have taken a wrong turning and would be looking desperately for the signs back to SH1 before I heard the sounds of banjos… 😀

    Sorry, I’ll try that again…

    If I were in New Plymouth I’d have just decided not to vote for him on the basis of those opinions, but I’d be thankful to the man for expressing them rather than trying to hide behind a thin veil of pseudo-liberalism and then letting loose with his archaic morals once elected as others have done.

    I wonder if those who are carping that he should shut up would prefer that alternative?

  23. Weather Eye Of The North 23

    The bigoted religiosity of Mr Young and his ilk insists that homosexuality is simply a choice, an outrageous choice, an abomination which responsible choice can wipe out completely presumably.

    There’s no question of fundamental, in-your-sexual-bones-difference. It’s simply a matter of corrupt choice.

    OBVIOUSLY, THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A DAY IN MY LIFE WHEN I MADE THE CORRUPT CHOICE TO BE HOMOSEXUAL RATHER THAN HETEROSEXUAL. Can’t actually remember it I have to say but it must have been around puberty I guess.

    So, adopting your approach Mr Young and rejecting as you do fundamental difference, I now ask you to share with me THE DAY YOU MADE THE RESPONSIBLE CHOICE TO BE HETEROSEXUAL RATHER THAN HOMOSEXUAL (presuming that indeed you did choose the former).

    That foolish, bigoted man Phil Raffills (God rest his soul), one time senior educator principal of Avondale College, used to espouse the same rubbish. And was then seriously embarrassed when a former head prefect of his choosing publicly acknowledged that he was and continued to be gay, viz. had made the “corrupt” choice.

  24. insider 24

    I think I might be even more embarassed by a PM saying that her opponent had had a tantrum and nearly cried…very sad piece of sour grapes driven damage control. She expected to work him over and even the Standard writers (happy Lynn?) agree he at least equalled her.

    From the NZH

    Helen Clark laid into National leader John Key’s performance in last night’s head to head debate today saying it was lucky he didn’t cry and accusing him of having a tantrum.

    “The fact he didn’t burst out crying on the set probably counted for him,” she said during a Radio Live question and answer session this morning.

    Later in the day she didn’t resile from her criticism telling reporters that expectations around Mr Key’s performance before the debate were low and; “the fact he didn’t collapse with a stress attack on the set probably gave him marks”.

    Maybe she needs to listen to Irish Bill a bit more on taking PR advice. This surely is not part of the plan?

  25. Tom Barker 26

    Since the pitiful Mr Young’s family connections have been brought up, it’s worth noting that he’s also the brother of veteran Herald political journo Audrey Young, whose paper is staunchly pro-National but who has been known to demonstrate some independence of thought in the past. Some fiery debates around the Young family’s kitchen table in the past, perhaps?

  26. randal 27

    its obvious that natoinal had a whole gang of shills ready to phone in!
    even twiedmeonions had the pm ahead until they rallied the troops. yes indeedy!

  27. insider 28

    Having listened to these bits from HC that I mentioned above re sour grapes, I’m happy to admit I think it reads a lot worse than it actually sounded and note I read it before I heard it.

  28. Dom 29

    No, I was not on the grassy knoll (I’m too young for that). But you can blame 9/11 on me. And the All Blacks failures at the World Cup. And the popularity of the Macarena a decade or so ago. 🙂

    Scribe – I don’t see a problem with reining in this sort of hate speech. Yep, that’s what it is. This ‘choice’ view makes gays seem unnatural – and that leads to bigotry and violence. Happy for all politicians across the political landscape with these sort of archaic views to keep their traps shut.

  29. Pascal's bookie 30

    I must confess to not really understanding the argument made by scribe. I’ve seen variants on it all over the place. Ian Wishart’s a fan of it for example, which doesn’t bode well.

    Is the idea that only people who don’t oppose bigots can really be said to oppose bigotry? That seems too silly for words.

    Or is it that people who oppose bigotry, are really just being bigoted against ‘bigots’. But this means opposing bigotry is impossible doesn’t it? Or is it possible to oppose bigotry while tolerating the actions and policies of bigots? How?

    I’ve always suspected it’s just a cheap rhetorical trick rather than an actual argument, used where a person can’t defend a prejudice so tries to claim victim status.

    I’ll note that no one has even tried to defend the content of the National party candidate’s quotes. Not directly anyhow. We’ve seen the liberal wing of the National party do their usual apologetics.

    LibNats. Objectively pro-bigot. Seems harsh, but I’ll stop saying it when the LibNats actually stop defending bigots, and start saying we don’t want bigots to vote for our party. Rather than just pretending not to hear the dogwhistles.

  30. Scribe 31

    Dom,

    Hate speech? Nice try. This isn’t even in the ball park of hate speech — regardless of whether one agrees with what Young said or not.

    Pb,

    It’s the selective outrage that makes the position of some people inconsistent. Homosexuals and Muslims can’t be targeted; Catholics and rich people can be. One is either for free speech or against it. (That doesn’t mean people should be able to say whatever they like, but Young’s comment is tame. If he’d delved into some of the Fred Phelps vitriol, I’d be the first to condemn it.)

    As someone said above, Young has put his views out there, now the public can decide if they want to vote for him. That’s the beauty of democracy.

  31. The whole Ian Wishart critisizing someone for critisizing and so on and so fouth is a fiarly complicated argument, no grounding in logic. For the uninitiated a general rule to picking who’s in the right goes christens and national supporters right, most other people wrong.

  32. ropata 33

    @Scribe
    Great comments. Young has dared to express doubts about one of Labour’s sacred cows, so now he’s vilified as an heretic/bigot/hater. The gay lobby is increasingly shrill in its demands to indoctrinate pliable young minds, and on this thread we see a typical intimidation campaign.

    @Killinginthenameof
    You’re wrong.

  33. Dom 34

    Wow Scribe and ropata – both of you are practially gleeful.

    Being gay is is one of the only acceptable forms of discrimination. If Young made this comment about Maori he’d be vilified but it’s okay to put a boot into the gays.

    If you can’t see that this is a form of hate speech – that it makes it acceptable to treat me differently for something I was born with, to hate me (as so many Young types do) – then let’s agree to disagree. Until you’ve been bashed in the head for being a faggot I don’t think you will get it.

    If anyone is shrill it’s the anti-gay lobby – I mean, isn’t this the epitome of shrill – what is the problem with Young, why did he even have to go there? It’s a non-issue but totally designed to drum up hate and mistrust. Most gay people aren’t worrying about why they are gay – we’re just trying to pay our bills like the rest of you. Young and his ilk have an unnatural fascination with us – it’s actually creepy.

    ropata – indoctrination is the domain of religion (raised Catholic here) and the very fact you’ve gone there tells me all I need to know.

    As for me, this argument is the same one I’ve had all my life – as you can imagine it’s pretty boring to battle the same, old, tired, ignorant homophobic opinions.

  34. ropata 35

    @Dom
    I see the gay movement as essentially religious in nature and therefore I have natural reservations about its adherents’ desire to promote their questionable innovations to culture, lifestyle, fidelity and family, under the guise of secular education and endorsed by a secular state.

  35. ropata 36

    PS: I admire your ability to annex the moral high ground and pass judgment upon all who fail to conform to *your* opinions. I am all for human rights and freedom, this includes a little respect for other people’s space. I suppose it’s too much to ask from a political activist who is indulging in a bit of professional outrage.

  36. Pascal's bookie 37

    That’s just your own religious baggage talking ropata.

    This notion that secularism is a religion is simply ignorant. Sorry, but there is no other word for it. Secularism simply means acting without regard to religion. I assume your mechanic uses a secular approach to fixing your car. (If not, change mechanics 😉 )

    In the same way, the west has developed a tradition of secular government. This has been achieved through trial and error, by design and by accident, as a result, funnily enough, of darwinian processes. Non secular states struggle to survive these days, let alone prosper. We can talk about why this is some other time perhaps.

    One, (if not the), major reason for state secularism is to protect freedom of religion. This is really important to understand. Secularism is merely the absence of religious reasoning. It merely means that the state cannot do things for religious purposes. If you don’t have a secular state, you can’t have freedom of religion.

    This means that there are a whole bunch of things that are allowed, and some few things that are not.

    Allowed:

    – The religious can call the rest of us sinners, perverts whatever you like, citing religious beliefs. The state can’t. The state enforces secular law. Churches of whatever flavour can discriminate in their religious activities however they like, but not on the government’s dime.

    – Other people can respond by calling the religious names as well, idiots, morons, bigots, whatever they like, citing their own philosophies.

    Not allowed:

    – forcing religious beliefs/practices upon people by force of law. This includes laws discriminating against people because of their religious status.

    – Prohibiting people from practicing their private religion, as long as said religious practice does not break secular laws. No human sacrifice, religiously sanctioned theft etc.

    In this case, certain brands of religious belief hold that homosexuality is sinful. They are free to do so. They are free to say as much. They are not being oppressed by the fact they are being prohibited from forcing others to follow their beliefs however. They would only be being oppressed if they were prohibited from calling it sin, or forced to practice themselves what they believed to be sinful.

    As I said at the beginning these are traditions. Some of it is codified in laws. The religious, as part of their freedom are free to try and change that. Religious political parties are free to try and change the state to a religious one.

    The rest of us will try and stop them though, and history is well and truly on our side. Our way is simply better for everyone.

  37. ropata 38

    Thanks for the democracy lesson, but I’m not asking the state to enforce a particular religion. In fact the opinion of a large swathe of NZers remains that homosexuality is a disordered state. Embracing a gay identity is a choice fraught with peril, at least admit the sad statistics that belie the rosy PR campaigns.

    Speaking of history,

    No major world religion has ever endorsed homosexuality which can be openly practised only in peaceful, affluent and cosmopolitan times. Even in classical
    antiquity, homosexuality was controversial, and despite the exaggerated claims of today’s partisans, there was no place or period where it flourished in complete freedom from moral opprobrium. History shows that male homosexuality flourishes with urbanization, soon becomes predictably ritualized and always tends toward decadence. So my radical brothers and sisters should stop bitching about sincere Christians, Jews and Muslims who are merely exercising their constitutional right to free speech, and whose vast philosophical perspective easily triumphs over the provincialism and amorality of the gay world.

  38. Pascal's bookie 39

    Thanks for the democracy lesson

    Your welcome.

  39. Weather Eye Of The North 40

    You sure you’re not a hidden one there Ropata ?

    You’re just a bit too vile really not to ask.

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    These dire woeful and intolerant people have been so determinedly going about their small and petulant business, it’s hard to keep up. At the end of the new government’s first woeful week, Audrey Young took the time to count off its various acts of denigration of Te Ao Māori:Review the ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • Another attack on te reo
    The new white supremacist government made attacking te reo a key part of its platform, promising to rename government agencies and force them to "communicate primarily in English" (which they already do). But today they've gone further, by trying to cut the pay of public servants who speak te reo: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • For the record, the Beehive buzz can now be regarded as “official”
    Buzz from the Beehive The biggest buzz we bring you from the Beehive today is that the government’s official website is up and going after being out of action for more than a week. The latest press statement came  from  Education Minister  Eric Stanford, who seized on the 2022 PISA ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • Climate Change: Failed again
    There was another ETS auction this morning. and like all the other ones this year, it failed to clear - meaning that 23 million tons of carbon (15 million ordinary units plus 8 million in the cost containment reserve) went up in smoke. Or rather, they didn't. Being unsold at ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell On The Government’s Assault On Maori
    This isn’t news, but the National-led coalition is mounting a sustained assault on Treaty rights and obligations. Even so, Christopher Luxon has described yesterday’s nationwide protests by Maori as “pretty unfair.” Poor thing. In the NZ Herald, Audrey Young has compiled a useful list of the many, many ways that ...
    3 days ago
  • Rising costs hit farmers hard, but  there’s more  positive news  for  them this  week 
    New Zealand’s dairy industry, the mainstay of the country’s export trade, has  been under  pressure  from rising  costs. Down on the  farm, this  has  been  hitting  hard. But there  was more positive news this week,  first   from the latest Fonterra GDT auction where  prices  rose,  and  then from  a  report ...
    Point of OrderBy tutere44
    3 days ago
  • ROB MacCULLOCH:  Newshub and NZ Herald report misleading garbage about ACT’s van Veldon not follo...
    Rob MacCulloch writes –  In their rush to discredit the new government (which our MainStream Media regard as illegitimate and having no right to enact the democratic will of voters) the NZ Herald and Newshub are arguing ACT’s Deputy Leader Brooke van Veldon is not following Treasury advice ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Top 10 for Wednesday, December 6
    Even many young people who smoke support smokefree policies, fitting in with previous research showing the large majority of people who smoke regret starting and most want to quit. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere on the morning of Wednesday, December ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • Eleven years of work.
    Well it didn’t take six months, but the leaks have begun. Yes the good ship Coalition has inadvertently released a confidential cabinet paper into the public domain, discussing their axing of Fair Pay Agreements (FPAs).Oops.Just when you were admiring how smoothly things were going for the new government, they’ve had ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago
  • Why we're missing out on sharply lower inflation
    A wave of new and higher fees, rates and charges will ripple out over the economy in the next 18 months as mayors, councillors, heads of department and price-setters for utilities such as gas, electricity, water and parking ramp up charges. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Just when most ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • How Did We Get Here?
    Hi,Kiwis — keep the evening of December 22nd free. I have a meetup planned, and will send out an invite over the next day or so. This sounds sort of crazy to write, but today will be Tony Stamp’s final Totally Normal column of 2023. Somehow we’ve made it to ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    4 days ago
  • At a glance – Has the greenhouse effect been falsified?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    4 days ago
  • New Zealaders  have  high expectations of  new  government:  now let’s see if it can deliver?
    The electorate has high expectations of the  new  government.  The question is: can  it  deliver?    Some  might  say  the  signs are not  promising. Protestors   are  already marching in the streets. The  new  Prime Minister has had  little experience of managing  very diverse politicians  in coalition. The economy he  ...
    Point of OrderBy tutere44
    4 days ago
  • You won't believe some of the numbers you have to pull when you're a Finance Minister
    Nicola of Marsden:Yo, normies! We will fix your cost of living worries by giving you a tax cut of 150 dollars. 150! Cash money! Vote National.Various people who can read and count:Actually that's 150 over a fortnight. Not a week, which is how you usually express these things.And actually, it looks ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago
  • Pushback
    When this government came to power, it did so on an explicitly white supremacist platform. Undermining the Waitangi Tribunal, removing Māori representation in local government, over-riding the courts which had tried to make their foreshore and seabed legislation work, eradicating te reo from public life, and ultimately trying to repudiate ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Defence ministerial meeting meant Collins missed the Maori Party’s mischief-making capers in Parli...
    Buzz from the Beehive Maybe this is not the best time for our Minister of Defence to have gone overseas. Not when the Maori Party is inviting (or should that be inciting?) its followers to join a revolution in a post which promoted its protest plans with a picture of ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • Threats of war have been followed by an invitation to join the revolution – now let’s see how th...
     A Maori Party post on Instagram invited party followers to ….  Tangata Whenua, Tangata Tiriti, Join the REVOLUTION! & make a stand!  Nationwide Action Day, All details in tiles swipe to see locations.  • This is our 1st hit out and tomorrow Tuesday the 5th is the opening ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Top 10 for Tuesday, December 4
    The RBNZ governor is citing high net migration and profit-led inflation as factors in the bank’s hawkish stance. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere on the morning of Tuesday, December 5, including:Reserve Bank Governor Adrian Orr says high net migration and ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Nicola Willis' 'show me the money' moment
    Willis has accused labour of “economic vandalism’, while Robertson described her comments as a “desperate diversion from somebody who can't make their tax package add up”. There will now be an intense focus on December 20 to see whether her hyperbole is backed up by true surprises. Photo montage: Lynn ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • CRL costs money but also provides huge benefits
    The City Rail Link has been in the headlines a bit recently so I thought I’d look at some of them. First up, yesterday the NZ Herald ran this piece about the ongoing costs of the CRL. Auckland ratepayers will be saddled with an estimated bill of $220 million each ...
    4 days ago
  • And I don't want the world to see us.
    Is this the most shambolic government in the history of New Zealand? Given that parliament hasn’t even opened they’ve managed quite a list of achievements to date.The Smokefree debacle trading lives for tax cuts, the Trumpian claims of bribery in the Media, an International award for indifference, and today the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • Cooking the books
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis late yesterday stopped only slightly short of accusing her predecessor Grant Robertson of cooking the books. She complained that the Half Yearly Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU), due to be made public on December 20, would show “fiscal cliffs” that would amount to “billions of ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago
  • Most people don’t realize how much progress we’ve made on climate change
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections The year was 2015. ‘Uptown Funk’ with Bruno Mars was at the top of the music charts. Jurassic World was the most popular new movie in theaters. And decades of futility in international climate negotiations was about to come to an end in ...
    5 days ago
  • Of Parliamentary Oaths and Clive Boonham
    As a heads-up, I am not one of those people who stay awake at night thinking about weird Culture War nonsense. At least so far as the current Maori/Constitutional arrangements go. In fact, I actually consider it the least important issue facing the day to day lives of New ...
    5 days ago
  • Bearing True Allegiance?
    Strong Words: “We do not consent, we do not surrender, we do not cede, we do not submit; we, the indigenous, are rising. We do not buy into the colonial fictions this House is built upon. Te Pāti Māori pledges allegiance to our mokopuna, our whenua, and Te Tiriti o ...
    5 days ago
  • You cannot be serious
    Some days it feels like the only thing to say is: Seriously? No, really. Seriously?OneSomeone has used their health department access to share data about vaccinations and patients, and inform the world that New Zealanders have been dying in their hundreds of thousands from the evil vaccine. This of course is pure ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago
  • A promise kept: govt pulls the plug on Lake Onslow scheme – but this saving of $16bn is denounced...
    Buzz from the Beehive After $21.8 million was spent on investigations, the plug has been pulled on the Lake Onslow pumped-hydro electricity scheme, The scheme –  that technically could have solved New Zealand’s looming energy shortage, according to its champions – was a key part of the defeated Labour government’s ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago
  • CHRIS TROTTER: The Maori Party and Oath of Allegiance
    If those elected to the Māori Seats refuse to take them, then what possible reason could the country have for retaining them?   Chris Trotter writes – Christmas is fast approaching, which, as it does every year, means gearing up for an abstruse general knowledge question. “Who was ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago
  • BRIAN EASTON:  Forward to 2017
    The coalition party agreements are mainly about returning to 2017 when National lost power. They show commonalities but also some serious divergencies. Brian Easton writes The two coalition agreements – one National and ACT, the other National and New Zealand First – are more than policy documents. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Climate Change: Fossils
    When the new government promised to allow new offshore oil and gas exploration, they were warned that there would be international criticism and reputational damage. Naturally, they arrogantly denied any possibility that that would happen. And then they finally turned up at COP, to criticism from Palau, and a "fossil ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • GEOFFREY MILLER:  NZ’s foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine
    Geoffrey Miller writes – New Zealand’s international relations are under new management. And Winston Peters, the new foreign minister, is already setting a change agenda. As expected, this includes a more pro-US positioning when it comes to the Pacific – where Peters will be picking up where he ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on the government’s smokefree laws debacle
    The most charitable explanation for National’s behaviour over the smokefree legislation is that they have dutifully fulfilled the wishes of the Big Tobacco lobby and then cast around – incompetently, as it turns out – for excuses that might sell this health policy U-turn to the public. The less charitable ...
    5 days ago
  • Top 10 links at 10 am for Monday, December 4
    As Deb Te Kawa writes in an op-ed, the new Government seems to have immediately bought itself fights with just about everyone. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere as of 10 am on Monday December 4, including:Palau’s President ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Be Honest.
    Let’s begin today by thinking about job interviews.During my career in Software Development I must have interviewed hundreds of people, hired at least a hundred, but few stick in the memory.I remember one guy who was so laid back he was practically horizontal, leaning back in his chair until his ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: New Zealand’s foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine
    New Zealand’s international relations are under new management. And Winston Peters, the new foreign minister, is already setting a change agenda. As expected, this includes a more pro-US positioning when it comes to the Pacific – where Peters will be picking up where he left off. Peters sought to align ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    5 days ago
  • Auckland rail tunnel the world’s most expensive
    Auckland’s city rail link is the most expensive rail project in the world per km, and the CRL boss has described the cost of infrastructure construction in Aotearoa as a crisis. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The 3.5 km City Rail Link (CRL) tunnel under Auckland’s CBD has cost ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • First big test coming
    The first big test of the new Government’s approach to Treaty matters is likely to be seen in the return of the Resource Management Act. RMA Minister Chris Bishop has confirmed that he intends to introduce legislation to repeal Labour’s recently passed Natural and Built Environments Act and its ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    6 days ago
  • The Song of Saqua: Volume III
    Time to revisit something I haven’t covered in a while: the D&D campaign, with Saqua the aquatic half-vampire. Last seen in July: https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2023/07/27/the-song-of-saqua-volume-ii/ The delay is understandable, once one realises that the interim saw our DM come down with a life-threatening medical situation. They have since survived to make ...
    6 days ago
  • Chris Bishop: Smokin’
    Yes. Correct. It was an election result. And now we are the elected government. ...
    My ThinksBy boonman
    6 days ago
  • 2023 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #48
    A chronological listing of news and opinion articles posted on the Skeptical Science  Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Nov 26, 2023 thru Dec 2, 2023. Story of the Week CO2 readings from Mauna Loa show failure to combat climate change Daily atmospheric carbon dioxide data from Hawaiian volcano more ...
    6 days ago
  • Affirmative Action.
    Affirmative Action was a key theme at this election, although I don’t recall anyone using those particular words during the campaign.They’re positive words, and the way the topic was talked about was anything but. It certainly wasn’t a campaign of saying that Affirmative Action was a good thing, but that, ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
  • 100 days of something
    It was at the end of the Foxton straights, at the end of 1978, at 100km/h, that someone tried to grab me from behind on my Yamaha.They seemed to be yanking my backpack. My first thought was outrage. My second was: but how? Where have they come from? And my ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago
  • Look who’s stepped up to champion Winston
    There’s no news to be gleaned from the government’s official website today  – it contains nothing more than the message about the site being under maintenance. The time this maintenance job is taking and the costs being incurred have us musing on the government’s commitment to an assault on inflation. ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 week ago
  • What's The Story?
    Don’t you sometimes wish they’d just tell the truth? No matter how abhorrent or ugly, just straight up tell us the truth?C’mon guys, what you’re doing is bad enough anyway, pretending you’re not is only adding insult to injury.Instead of all this bollocks about the Smokefree changes being to do ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • The longest of weeks
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.Friday Under New Management Week in review, quiz style1. Which of these best describes Aotearoa?a. Progressive nation, proud of its egalitarian spirit and belief in a fair go b. Best little country on the planet c. ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 week ago
  • Suggested sessions of EGU24 to submit abstracts to
    Like earlier this year, members from our team will be involved with next year's General Assembly of the European Geosciences Union (EGU). The conference will take place on premise in Vienna as well as online from April 14 to 19, 2024. The session catalog has been available since November 1 ...
    1 week ago
  • Under New Management
    1. Which of these best describes Aotearoa?a. Progressive nation, proud of its egalitarian spirit and belief in a fair go b. Best little country on the planet c. Under New Management 2. Which of these best describes the 100 days of action announced this week by the new government?a. Petulantb. Simplistic and wrongheaded c. ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 week ago
  • While we wait patiently, our new Minister of Education is up and going with a 100-day action plan
    Sorry to say, the government’s official website is still out of action. When Point of Order paid its daily visit, the message was the same as it has been for the past week: Site under maintenance Beehive.govt.nz is currently under maintenance. We will be back shortly. Thank you for your ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 week ago
  • DAVID FARRAR: Hysterical bullshit
    Radio NZ reports: Te Pāti Māori’s co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer has accused the new government of “deliberate .. systemic genocide” over its policies to roll back the smokefree policy and the Māori Health Authority. The left love hysterical language. If you oppose racial quotas in laws, you are a racist. And now if you sack ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 week ago

  • Ministers visit Hawke’s Bay to grasp recovery needs
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon joined Cyclone Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell and Transport and Local Government Minister Simeon Brown, to meet leaders of cyclone and flood-affected regions in the Hawke’s Bay. The visit reinforced the coalition Government’s commitment to support the region and better understand its ongoing requirements, Mr Mitchell says.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New Zealand condemns malicious cyber activity
    New Zealand has joined the UK and other partners in condemning malicious cyber activity conducted by the Russian Government, Minister Responsible for the Government Communications Security Bureau Judith Collins says. The statement follows the UK’s attribution today of malicious cyber activity impacting its domestic democratic institutions and processes, as well ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Disestablishment of Te Pūkenga begins
    The Government has begun the process of disestablishing Te Pūkenga as part of its 100-day plan, Minister for Tertiary Education and Skills Penny Simmonds says.  “I have started putting that plan into action and have met with the chair and chief Executive of Te Pūkenga to advise them of my ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Climate Change Minister to attend COP28 in Dubai
    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will be leaving for Dubai today to attend COP28, the 28th annual UN climate summit, this week. Simon Watts says he will push for accelerated action towards the goals of the Paris Agreement, deliver New Zealand’s national statement and connect with partner countries, private sector leaders ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand to host 2024 Pacific defence meeting
    Defence Minister Judith Collins yesterday announced New Zealand will host next year’s South Pacific Defence Ministers’ Meeting (SPDMM). “Having just returned from this year’s meeting in Nouméa, I witnessed first-hand the value of meeting with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security and defence matters. I welcome the opportunity to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Study shows need to remove distractions in class
    The Government is committed to lifting school achievement in the basics and that starts with removing distractions so young people can focus on their learning, Education Minister Erica Stanford says.   The 2022 PISA results released this week found that Kiwi kids ranked 5th in the world for being distracted ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Minister sets expectations of Commissioner
    Today I met with Police Commissioner Andrew Coster to set out my expectations, which he has agreed to, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. Under section 16(1) of the Policing Act 2008, the Minister can expect the Police Commissioner to deliver on the Government’s direction and priorities, as now outlined in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand needs a strong and stable ETS
    New Zealand needs a strong and stable Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) that is well placed for the future, after emission units failed to sell for the fourth and final auction of the year, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says.  At today’s auction, 15 million New Zealand units (NZUs) – each ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • PISA results show urgent need to teach the basics
    With 2022 PISA results showing a decline in achievement, Education Minister Erica Stanford is confident that the Coalition Government’s 100-day plan for education will improve outcomes for Kiwi kids.  The 2022 PISA results show a significant decline in the performance of 15-year-old students in maths compared to 2018 and confirms ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Collins leaves for Pacific defence meeting
    Defence Minister Judith Collins today departed for New Caledonia to attend the 8th annual South Pacific Defence Ministers’ meeting (SPDMM). “This meeting is an excellent opportunity to meet face-to-face with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security matters and to demonstrate our ongoing commitment to the Pacific,” Judith Collins says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Working for Families gets cost of living boost
    Putting more money in the pockets of hard-working families is a priority of this Coalition Government, starting with an increase to Working for Families, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. “We are starting our 100-day plan with a laser focus on bringing down the cost of living, because that is what ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Post-Cabinet press conference
    Most weeks, following Cabinet, the Prime Minister holds a press conference for members of the Parliamentary Press Gallery. This page contains the transcripts from those press conferences, which are supplied by Hansard to the Office of the Prime Minister. It is important to note that the transcripts have not been edited ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme scrapped
    The Government has axed the $16 billion Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme championed by the previous government, Energy Minister Simeon Brown says. “This hugely wasteful project was pouring money down the drain at a time when we need to be reining in spending and focussing on rebuilding the economy and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • NZ welcomes further pause in fighting in Gaza
    New Zealand welcomes the further one-day extension of the pause in fighting, which will allow the delivery of more urgently-needed humanitarian aid into Gaza and the release of more hostages, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said. “The human cost of the conflict is horrific, and New Zealand wants to see the violence ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Condolences on passing of Henry Kissinger
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters today expressed on behalf of the New Zealand Government his condolences to the family of former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who has passed away at the age of 100 at his home in Connecticut. “While opinions on his legacy are varied, Secretary Kissinger was ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Backing our kids to learn the basics
    Every child deserves a world-leading education, and the Coalition Government is making that a priority as part of its 100-day plan. Education Minister Erica Stanford says that will start with banning cellphone use at school and ensuring all primary students spend one hour on reading, writing, and maths each day. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • US Business Summit Speech – Regional stability through trade
    I would like to begin by echoing the Prime Minister’s thanks to the organisers of this Summit, Fran O’Sullivan and the Auckland Business Chamber.  I want to also acknowledge the many leading exporters, sector representatives, diplomats, and other leaders we have joining us in the room. In particular, I would like ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Keynote Address to the United States Business Summit, Auckland
    Good morning. Thank you, Rosemary, for your warm introduction, and to Fran and Simon for this opportunity to make some brief comments about New Zealand’s relationship with the United States.  This is also a chance to acknowledge my colleague, Minister for Trade Todd McClay, Ambassador Tom Udall, Secretary of Foreign ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • India New Zealand Business Council Speech, India as a Strategic Priority
    Good morning, tēnā koutou and namaskar. Many thanks, Michael, for your warm welcome. I would like to acknowledge the work of the India New Zealand Business Council in facilitating today’s event and for the Council’s broader work in supporting a coordinated approach for lifting New Zealand-India relations. I want to also ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Coalition Government unveils 100-day plan
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has laid out the Coalition Government’s plan for its first 100 days from today. “The last few years have been incredibly tough for so many New Zealanders. People have put their trust in National, ACT and NZ First to steer them towards a better, more prosperous ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand welcomes European Parliament vote on the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement
    A significant milestone in ratifying the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement (FTA) was reached last night, with 524 of the 705 member European Parliament voting in favour to approve the agreement. “I’m delighted to hear of the successful vote to approve the NZ-EU FTA in the European Parliament overnight. This is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

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