A Heavy Day

Written By: - Date published: 3:05 pm, November 7th, 2024 - 40 comments
Categories: chris hipkins, Christopher Luxon, corruption, health, nicola willis, Tobacco - Tags: , , , , ,

Kia Ora folks,

It’s a heavy day and I thought I would offer two videos for your consumption if you’re interested:

The first one is footage you may never see again: Christopher Luxon apologises to Chris Hipkins in the House this week:

And a segment from TVNZ’s Breakfast show last week where Kieran McAnulty calls out Nicola Willis on some of this government’s health system lies:

The world order has shifted significantly, and I did expect this result to a degree, but still feel rocked.

What the US election result proves is the battle is not necessarily one of facts, policies, or reasoned impacts, but very much fought on beliefs, perception and awareness.

And there is a lot of work to do to recover from the lies of the last few years in New Zealand – ones perpetuated successfully by the likes of Taxpayers Union and their operatives.

Things may get rocky but stay strong and be well. Your health and your well-being enables us to stand tall together.

Tui

PS

This is a screenshot of a Facebook conversation this morning regarding the Treaty Principles Bill – the one Seymour and the government sneakily brought forward to get in front of next week’s Hikoi.

This user and the many that joined him in spreading myths about Te Tiriti is right to a degree i.e. their battle is perception – not reality – so take heed.

PPS If anyone does want to read US election posts, there’s a pre-election result post: It Feels Like D-Day and a post-result post: The Day After

40 comments on “A Heavy Day ”

  1. tc 1
    7 November 2024 at 3:19 pm

    More of this please opposition. More of Kieran labour and less of shitkins.

    They threw spanners into the health machine that totally fubar'd alot of steady as she goes processes as wrecking crews tend to do.

    Reply
  2. Patricia Bremner 2
    7 November 2024 at 4:13 pm

    Less pulling down the Left and more targeting the lies of the Right pleas tc What do you call the 3 COC Leaders?

    Morgan Poll Yay!!

    Reply
    • Vivie 2.1
      7 November 2024 at 9:19 pm

      I agree Patricia. Chris Hipkins presents well, as does Kieran McAnulty, but why try to cause division? Unity is important.

      This is good news for Labour.

      "Roy Morgan’s New Zealand Poll for October 2024 shows a significant swing in support with the Labour-Greens-Maori Party Parliamentary Opposition up 7% points to 48% now with a narrow lead over the National-led Government (National, ACT & NZ First) on 47% (down 8% points)…".

      "Support for all three parties in the National-led Government dropped in October. Support for National dropped 6.5% points to 31% – their lowest level of support since being elected last year, support for ACT was down 1% point to 9% and support for NZ First was down 0.5% points at 7%.

      For the Parliamentary Opposition, support for Labour increased 6% points to 29%, support for the Greens was unchanged at 14% and support for the Maori Party was up 1% point to 5%…".

      It's not just as a consequence of the Navy ship sinking, despite Roy Morgan's headline.

      “…The decision to scale-back on the Dunedin hospital redevelopment has drawn widespread criticism and sparked a widespread backlash across the country.

      “There was also bad news on the economy released in late September which showed GDP contracting in the June quarter by 0.2%, the first quarterly decline since the September quarter 2023. Annual growth in GDP was also negative for the first time since the COVID-19 pandemic, shrinking by 0.2% compared to a year ago…".

      National support down significantly in October after the sinking of HMNZS Manawanui in Samoa – Roy Morgan Research

      No media coverage about the poll as yet, despite a large drop in support for National.

      Reply
  3. Ad 3
    7 November 2024 at 4:50 pm

    Extra heavy:

    The German coalition has collapsed.

    Confidence vote next week.

    Government collapse and fresh election strong potential…..

    …… and wait for AFD making Trumps team look limpwristed.

    Reply
    • SPC 3.1
      8 November 2024 at 11:57 am

      The plan is an election in March. The Christian Democrats are ahead in polls and will lead the next government.

      The Liberal Democrats caused this as they are so low in the polls. And want to survive to be CD partners (perpetual government centrists).

      Reply
  4. Binders full of women 4
    7 November 2024 at 7:40 pm

    Apparently Australia and Canada elections will follow USA. In the words of Bernie Sanders… "the democratic party abandoned the working class, and now the working class have abandoned the democrats ". There are only two NZ Labour MPs with any working class cred….the two MPs without degrees.

    Reply
    • Belladonna 4.1
      7 November 2024 at 7:48 pm

      Which ones are they?

      The NZF caucus (apart from Peters and Jones), seems to have a fair number of high ranked MPs without degrees: Costello, Patterson, Marcroft.
      Does this make them more in touch with the working class?

      Reply
    • Darien Fenton 4.2
      8 November 2024 at 11:34 am

      You do know of course that Bernie Sanders is a graduate?

      Reply
      • Incognito 4.2.1
        8 November 2024 at 12:18 pm

        Silly way to categorise and box people in – as far as I know the late Helen Kelly had a law degree from Vic University.

        Reply
        • weka 4.2.1.1
          8 November 2024 at 12:27 pm

          the working class cred thing was silly, but it's a fair point that Labour (and parliament) are top heavy with people with university degrees. That's not representative of society.

          Reply
          • weka 4.2.1.1.1
            8 November 2024 at 12:27 pm

            I assume it's an issue with selection as well as class.

            Reply
          • SPC 4.2.1.1.2
            8 November 2024 at 12:35 pm

            It is part of the need to be a graduate to get a job in the public service mentality.

            It is as if neo-liberals do not trust those without TD to pay off, as they might not have a focus on money, but rather the public good.

            Reply
            • Belladonna 4.2.1.1.2.1
              8 November 2024 at 1:47 pm

              It's part of the 'degree-inflation' which shifted para-professional vocations to degree-level ones – beginning in the 80s.

              Before that time, the vast majority of nurses, librarians, and electricians & IT and telecoms people (for example) – followed a vocational-training pathway. Where they were employed to do the job, and then pursued training via block courses, and day-release programs.

              Once it became clear that the workplace reforms of the 80s & 90s resulted in salaries with a hefty 'degree' premium; there was a high level of motivation to switch the training methodology to result in a degree – preferably before employment started.

              From my perspective, this has been (very largely) a failure. Teens often don't make perfect choices when it comes to tertiary education: changing degrees, and/or entire fields of study; or dropping out, and deciding that an entirely different pathway is a better fit for them. Many people end up with a 'useless' degree (i.e. they're not working in that field), or no degree at all – and still have to pay for it.

              Vocational pathways – which also offer the opportunity for further tertiary study, if you decide that's the right pathway for you, are a much better solution.

              Interestingly, this has been a topic of conversation on an American educational blog that I follow. The number of middle-class teens, who've gone down the (very expensive) degree route in the US – and ended up with a fairly useless (in terms of employment) piece of paper, combined with a very expensive educational bill to pay.

              Reply
              • Belladonna …
                8 November 2024 at 1:57 pm

                Also as a past manager of a tranche of these now-degreed vocational workers – in a very highly specialized area – I can comment that the qualification is largely not well targeted to what the job requires. Theoretical knowledge, divorced from hands-on experience isn't particularly useful – and is largely forgotten by the time they come to put it in practice in a job. Whereas, learning the job, then learning the theory behind it – is a natural way to build expertise.

                In addition, a chunk of them decide that they don't actually like working in the field of their degree (wasting their time in gaining the qualification, and my time in training them). We see this a lot in teaching (for example) where a significant number of teachers drop out of the profession in the first two years. They like teaching in theory (they didn't drop out of the degree) but don't like the job in reality.

                Reply
              • weka …
                8 November 2024 at 4:59 pm

                and not all people who make excellent nurses are good at academia (and the corollary, that there are some people who are good at academia who probably shouldn't be nurses). Worse, nursing and midwifery training has been subsumed into the historic model where 'higher' education was for young white relatively wealthy men with no responsibilities and lots of support. It doesn't well work for many women going into nursing after they have had their kids for instance.

                At least they do do some practical experience work early in the training, but it's just a very bad design when they could have designed a tier system that met the needs of different people training for different reasons and with different aptitudes.

                Once it became clear that the workplace reforms of the 80s & 90s resulted in salaries with a hefty 'degree' premium; there was a high level of motivation to switch the training methodology to result in a degree – preferably before employment started.

                Call me cynical, but at the same time that was happening, lo and behold they bought in student fees and student loans. Why pay someone to train as a nurse, when you can get them to pay for it instead?

                Reply
              • SPC …
                8 November 2024 at 5:11 pm

                Bob Jones always preferred those doing an arts degree, learn to think. He could train people otherwise, on the job.

                Reply
          • Incognito 4.2.1.1.3
            8 November 2024 at 12:47 pm

            Whilst it might be a fair point, I think it also is a rather pointless one.

            You might be surprised by how many New Zealanders hold a university degree.

            Reply
          • Drowsy M. Kram 4.2.1.1.4
            8 November 2024 at 2:52 pm

            Labour (and parliament) are top heavy with people with university degrees.

            Imho, the 'problem' of parliament and (the MPs of) individual parties being top heavy with uni graduates is less important than the under-representation of
            the ~50% of Kiwis who collectively control ~2% of Aotearoa NZ's wealth.

            Under/over-representation could be ameliorated by selecting MPs at random.

            This "diversity trumps ability theorem" is central to the arguments for sortition.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition#Analysis

            How the neoliberals stitched up the wealth of nations for themselves [18 Aug 2007]
            Neoliberalism, if unchecked, will catalyse crisis after crisis, all of which can be solved only by greater intervention on the part of the state. In confronting it, we must recognise that we will never be able to mobilise the resources its exponents have been given. But as the disasters they have caused unfold, the public will need ever less persuading that it has been misled.

            17 years on, "the public will need ever less persuading that it has been misled" seems wishful thinking – billionaires have neoliberal democracy stitched up.

            Explaining the Proliferation of U.S. Billionaires During the
            Neoliberal Period             [2023]
            In the present decade, Financialization, Shareholder Culture, Crony Capitalism, Rentierism, Tax Policy, and Labor Exploitation all function in an interrelated, cohesive, and synergistic whole to create advantages for the wealthy to practice capital accumulation, which in turn continues to facilitate the processes that raise U.S. billionaire wealth to higher levels.

            This study has also highlighted the institutional nature of billionaire wealth that has been solidified over the last four decades of neoliberalism.

            Reply
        • Darien Fenton 4.2.1.2
          8 November 2024 at 5:45 pm
          • 100%
          Reply
    • SPC 4.3
      8 November 2024 at 12:26 pm

      There may be a divide between socially liberal professionals and the working class.

      This was part of the DLC era. A reaction to the Reagan victory, a more market orientated and centrist new Democrats.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

      Represented by the Clinton's.

      Bill Clinton did not do much economically left wing stuff in office (GOP controlled Congress would have blocked an effort .. excuse). And worked with the right on some areas – welfare reform.

      He did note by the end of his time in office (no tax cuts and limited spending increases) that the economy was good, the debt to GDP was down – but the gains from that was not shared across America to all Americans.

      HC, the Sec of State internationalist talked to bankers in 2016 to reassure them about her candidacy (pro markets and global trade) and took the rust belt for granted (misled by polls) was seen as part of that DLC era.

      If she had taken a pro union approach etc, she may have won. She did not.

      This is not the case of those more openly left wing professionals Warren, Sanders, nor a more moderate left Biden.

      The issue for left wing professionals and the working class, is not one of common cause but representation (not being seen as paternalism/patronage). That is union protection laws and or economic policy development/community consultation.

      In the USA the issue is that some of the "working class" (local community business hires and trained on the job types) in rural American is union free, nationalist, anti-government and anti-liberal.

      Reply
      • Belladonna 4.3.1
        8 November 2024 at 12:34 pm

        the issue is that some of the "working class" (local community business hires and trained on the job types) in rural America

        It's a very big issue. Rural US is largely not unionized (and doesn't particularly want to be). These are the self-employed or small business tradespeople (plumbers, builders, sparkies, machinery repair people, etc.). Their definition of 'working class' is worlds away from the highly unionized car-workers of the rust belt. And they have little connection to the (perceived as) woke, college educated, Democrats.

        If you look at the voting maps – large cities voted Dem, rural areas voted Repub. If the Dems are talking to unions, they're talking to the wrong 'workers'

        Reply
        • SPC 4.3.1.1
          8 November 2024 at 12:42 pm

          I was thinking more of rural factory/warehousing/timber/mining/construction supply/sundry industry – employees than the tradies who also work in urban areas.

          Reply
          • Belladonna 4.3.1.1.1
            8 November 2024 at 1:35 pm

            Apart from mining (not sure of the union status), I don't think that any of the other employment areas are typically unionized in rural areas of the States. And I wouldn’t describe mining as ‘local community business hires’)

            Much like in NZ, 'small' business (which is the majority of the business in rural areas), is very small indeed.

            Reply
        • Darien Fenton 4.3.1.2
          8 November 2024 at 5:53 pm

          Rural America would not survive without migrant workers and undocumented workers. When they all get rounded up under Trump, detained and then deported, who will pick the crops? And of course they are not unionised. They have no rights, let alone being able to vote. Read Cesar Chavez.

          Reply
  5. joe 5
    8 November 2024 at 9:59 am

    "There are only two NZ Labour MPs with any working-class cred….the two MPs without degrees".
    It is crazy to define people's thoughts and actions in a detail like that.

    Reply
    • Darien Fenton 5.1
      8 November 2024 at 11:41 am

      I agree ; what does working class cred mean? Is it where you grew up? How you grew up? What jobs you did? Whether you were "on the tools" or not? How much money you earned? Whether you were in a union or not? Whether you stood up for workers or not? I was an MP without a degree and was mocked for it by the right. I think we of the working class have aspirations for our kids to do better than we were able to ; and that includes education. That is surely a good thing.

      Reply
      • Binders full of women 5.1.1
        8 November 2024 at 2:30 pm

        My thought process for the no-degrees comment can about by what i observed yesterday. 1) Corin Dann on RNZ from USA saying the election came down to "the educated vs the uneducated " not challenged by RNZ host. (It felt like a good example of out-of-touch judgy-AF media, if not bias then at least disrespectful/ignorant). 2) I got home and saw bernie sanders quote. 3) then I saw the stats on democrat support for Obama Obama Clinton Biden Harris from Latino men, all Black, and women. The support through 5 elections went roughly 75% 70%, 65% 60% 55%. So while it looked like majority support for Harris the trend is stark. 4) then my mind went to Willie Jackson's comment on "only 2 without degrees" . And I wondered whether what Bernie said of USA is the same in NZ.

        Reply
        • Darien Fenton 5.1.1.1
          8 November 2024 at 5:57 pm

          Yeah I get that. But also get that those of us who grow up in working class families have parents who see education as one of the ways out of poverty. How often do you see families talking about the first one in our family to graduate? I would also suggest that Willie had a good education as a union organiser. I should know. I was his boss for a while.

          Reply

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