Open mike 07/02/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 7th, 2022 - 257 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

257 comments on “Open mike 07/02/2022 ”

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    • Tricledrown 1.1
      7 February 2022 at 1:08 pm

      A British passport holder holding NZ to ransom while able to enter the UK.

      Why did she choose NZ over the UK.

      Because of our response to covid was better than the UK.

  2. Blade 2
    7 February 2022 at 7:51 am

    Apologies if someone, somewhere, has posted this previously.

    It's all about control…control and more control.

    No one is allowed to question or escape the HIVE.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-sir-ian-taylor-claims-associate-health-minister-ayesha-verall-tried-to-muzzle-him/OWRBD2R7C2IXSZJ2TRYZPVYPL4/

    • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 2.1
      7 February 2022 at 8:51 am

      Taylor 'claims!' No doubt there is another side to this story.

      I may be wrong, but Taylor comes across to me as a man who doesn't like to be told what to do by a woman, any woman, Jacinda or Ayesha etc.

      • Blade 2.1.1
        7 February 2022 at 9:09 am

        I'm always fascinated by how things render down to misogyny, wealth and being a red neck on this blog. A trope for ever occasion.

        I have noted your rider. Your opinion is as good as mine.

        • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 2.1.1.1
          7 February 2022 at 4:28 pm

          Well, it's not like Weta Workshop never had a problem with mismanagement and misogyny, so I don't know where Taylor may have picked up his attitudes,

          A triple negative in one sentence is sure to confuse!

      • Sabine 2.1.2
        7 February 2022 at 10:22 am

        Don't he know his place, and don't he know that unless he has been given a permission slip to speak, and a list of approved words, he is a sexist, a troglodyte, or gasp a chauvinistic pic.

        Its not that this current government does not have a wee bit of a record of approved 'truth speak'.

    • Blazer 2.2
      7 February 2022 at 8:52 am

      Sounds like he is exaggerating to me.

      The mainstream media is full on with anything negative they can dredge up against this…Govt.

    • Bearded Git 2.3
      7 February 2022 at 8:54 am

      Taylor has been unfairly attacking the government's excellent pandemic response for several months now. When he gets taken to task for this he loses his rag. Diddums.

      • Sabine 2.3.1
        7 February 2022 at 10:26 am

        That man has written a few articles that actually were with merit.

        But then, some live in fear and others don't.

    • aj 2.4
      7 February 2022 at 8:55 am

      Ian Taylor has jumped the shark often this last year and completely lost my respect after this incident in Dec 2021 when he deliberately misquoted, to my mind, the PM. If I may quote the Newshub report

      A prominent New Zealand businessman who accused politicians and health officials of holidaying at a dangerous time "misquoted" the Prime Minister, the Beehive has said.
      Sir Ian Taylor, who's been trying to push the Government into making improvements to New Zealand's COVID-19 response, at the weekend and on Monday criticised Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern – saying he was staggered at her comment that people should have "a wonderful break – you bloody deserve it".

      "Nobody should be talking about a break right now," Sir Ian told Newstalk ZB.

      "We already missed 16 months, where we did nothing, to shore up the defences and the idea that parliamentarians pat themselves on the back saying, 'You've done really well' … there is nothing to congratulate themselves about."

      The Beehive has now responded to Sir Ian's comments.

      "Ian Taylor has misquoted the Prime Minister," a spokesperson for Ardern told Newshub.

      "Her actual statement is clear that she is thanking all New Zealanders for their sacrifice and commitment during 2021 and that they deserve a good break."

      Ardern, Deputy Prime Minister Grant Robertson, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins, Associate Health Minister Ayesha Verrall, "along with other senior ministers and officials will be working through summer and are on a duty roster", the PM's spokesperson said.

      The comments Sir Ian was referring to were made by Ardern on the last day of Parliament on Wednesday.

      "It's been hard. People have been weary, but Kiwis have done what it takes to put us in the best possible position to keep moving, to take on whatever comes next," Ardern told MPs.

      "I, for one, will never underestimate New Zealanders. So to everyone, I wish you a wonderful break.

      "You bloody deserve it."

      Robertson, in an open letter published by the NZ Herald, said he felt sad reading Sir Ian's comments.

      "You write that she is telling politicians and decision-makers that they should take a break. That is not what she said.

      "While I accept it's fair to criticise some of the decisions that we have made, I will not accept an accusation of lack of hard work."

      Sir Ian's criticisms came amid the arrival of the Omicron variant on New Zealand's shores, which he described as "one of the most dangerous times of this pandemic".

      • Blade 2.4.1
        7 February 2022 at 9:23 am

        I read that article.

        OK, Sir Ian quoted the PM out of context. Don't forgot he is also pushing an agenda.

        If we want to get down to semantics, his criticism is still valid. The government has been on holiday regarding RATS and a cohesive border policy.

        Then there is this:

        ''Ardern, Deputy Prime Minister Grant Robertson, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins, Associate Health Minister Ayesha Verrall, "along with other senior ministers and officials will be working through summer and are on a duty roster", the PM's spokesperson said''

        Are they working as a team? Or does one come into the office on their roster day? I watched two interviews with the PM and Chris over the break. Neither looked to me being happy about having their relaxing break interrupted. That was my perception.

        But all of this is commentary. It boils down to this:

        Is Sir Ian Taylor [deleted]

        [lprent: I didn’t moderate this. But there was discussion in the back end. I’ll quote what I said there. Remember that what you say here not only potentially affects you, it is likely to affect me if it goes to court since I am the person who has to stand up in court to protect your arse.

        The general way to call some one to be a liar directly is to preface it with the words similar to “In my opinion, …”. That shifts it from being a statement of fact (requiring either proof if it ever goes to court or the more difficult flip to saying that is was obvious that was opinion), to being a clear statement of opinion.

        The former has few protections in law. That latter has considerable.

        I’d also point out for those who are invariably ignorant of NZ law. We have no libel or slander in NZ common law. There is only the Defamation Act 1992. Defamation defences are all about the facts for the decision or honest option. See part 2.

        Asking it as a question provides absolutely no defence, and it also pisses me off because it is such an obvious ploy to not actually and clearly state what you think.

        If you want to make an absolute assertion of fact (or even to ask as a question) about someone without prefacing it as being your opinion, then you need to back it up in the same comment with something that shows it to be fact that is obvious to all or clearly state it as being your opinion. In this case you comment did not provide that. It was opinion and provided no fact outside of a quote – that provided no facts either..

        If you want to be absolute and assert some thing that can be construed as being a false fact, then I or other moderators will absolutely kick you off the site. If there is any ambiguity, the we may warn you. But personally I find it easier to excise unthinking stupidity. ]

        • Robert Guyton 2.4.1.1
          7 February 2022 at 9:43 am

          "Is Sir Ian Taylor a [deleted]

          You imply that he might be.

          Will you also ask "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

        • weka 2.4.1.2
          7 February 2022 at 9:59 am

          please don't make accusations of this sort on this site, it might put the site owners at legal risk. I'm distracted so don't have time to think through if it's an actual problem in this case, but you can raise your concerns here in a less defamatory way.

          • Blade 2.4.1.2.1
            7 February 2022 at 10:17 am

            It shouldn't be a problem given my context. In hindsight though it demands an answer from someone who might disagree with me. So best to play it safe.

            • weka 2.4.1.2.1.1
              7 February 2022 at 11:50 am

              "shouldn't be a problem" isn't good enough, especially as it may encourage others to state it more baldly.

              I err on the side of caution because I don't have a legal background. If it's an issue, take it up with Lprent, one of the owners of the site, who has substantial experience with legalities, or micky, who is a lawyer.

              Questioning what Taylor is up to is valid, I'm saying be more careful of how you do that.

              • Blade …
                7 February 2022 at 12:02 pm

                "shouldn't be a problem" isn't good enough, especially as it may encourage others to state it more baldly''

                That's what I meant, Weka. I agreed with your stance.

                ''In hindsight though it demands an answer from someone who might disagree with me. So best to play it safe.''

                I have no issues to grind.

        • aj 2.4.1.3
          7 February 2022 at 11:06 am

          OK, Sir Ian quoted the PM out of context. Don't forgot he is also pushing an agenda.

          If we want to get down to semantics, his criticism is still valid. The government has been on holiday regarding RATS and a cohesive border policy.

          Ian Taylor – I refuse to use the honorific – deliberately choose to selectively quote the PM, and then used that quote to imply the government and officials were taking a holiday, in order to promote his own agenda and the agenda of the opposition. It was not careless. It was deliberate. If I may use this word on this site, was a dishonest.

          Dishonest means several things, take your pick..

          Dishonesty is to act without honesty. It is used to describe a lack of probity, cheating, lying, or deliberately withholding information, or being deliberately deceptive or a lack in integrity, knavishness, perfidiosity, corruption or treacherousness

          (I aplogise to the mods if this word definition is unsettling)

          Your second point is your opinion. I don't believe it is factually correct. The government has clearly been working on border policies as the pandemic has evolved, and RATS have been on the radar for a long time but because they are well short of a perfect method of detecting covid they have chosen not to implement them widely until there is widespread community spread.

          Like so many on the right of politics, you only hear what you want to hear.

          • Blade 2.4.1.3.1
            7 February 2022 at 11:33 am

            ''Ian Taylor – I refuse to use the honorific.''

            That's your prerogative. I always try to use a honorific unless society deems a sir has done something unacceptable. Ron Brierley for example.

          • observer 2.4.1.3.2
            7 February 2022 at 11:44 am

            AJ is absolutely correct.

            Whatever the merits of Taylor's previous points or contributions, he chose to deliberately mislead in his December piece. (If anybody doubts this, check Hansard to see what the PM actually said).

            This was not a "mistake", a "misunderstanding". Since he has offered no apology, there is no reason to accept his subsequent words in good faith. He has nobody to blame but himself.

            (And it's no good throwing dust in the eyes, with nonsense about government approved spokespeople and similar diversions. Read what he said. Justify his lie. You can't).

        • lprent 2.4.1.4
          7 February 2022 at 1:16 pm

          Please read my note on your comment

      • Patricia Bremner 2.4.2
        7 February 2022 at 11:12 am

        aj, three things struck me.
        Perhaps the previous Government talked to the "Taylors" of the World, as they have "connections"

        He appeared annoyed that " Many people were on the call with Minister Verral(zoom) and bureaucracy would slow things down."
        3. When asked to stop reporting directly to the Herald discussions ahead of decisions, he threw his toys out of the cot and hung up on the Minister.

        The general story line since "The Government is arrogant and not listening to business!!" Wow how to spin an event. Another attack line, 'They are too slow!!"

        This Pandemic is 2 yrs old. Omicron appeared in November, 2 months ago. This practised impatience with a system trying to do the best for all, is manufactured to fit personal agendas IMO. It appears a cabal including Luxon? is "making a case".

        After all the success, we are being led to believe that Jacinda Ardern and the Health team are useless slow non responsive and self interested.

        This all flies in the face of other evidence. (WHO ratings.)

        1% of people own 97% of wealth.

        Anyone trying to stop their “cream run” will come up against powerful people who are always trying to get to the “top paddock” to put it in lay terms.

        Business manoeuvres are like 3 layered chess, moving capital power and politicians. The Billionaires' Club. Their altruism is almost always tax deductible.

    • Graeme 2.5
      7 February 2022 at 9:44 am

      I'd like to see how Ian Taylor reacts when someone he's negotiating a business deal with breaks the confidentiality clauses that are part of the HOAs that lead to the negotiation of pretty much any commercial contract.

      • Sabine 2.5.1
        7 February 2022 at 10:47 am

        Have you got a link that would point to such a 'confidentiality' clause in this meeting?

        Because i would assume that this person knows a thing or two about business, secrecy and openness in business and how to keep up good relationships, something that can not be said of our current government.

        Taylor was inducted into the New Zealand Technology Hall of Fame in 2009[5] and was named North & South Magazines 2010 New Zealander of the Year.

        He was awarded an Honorary Fellowship of the Institute of IT Professionals (HFIITP) in 2010 (under its former name New Zealand Computer Society), the top honour of the tech sector in New Zealand.[6]

        In the 2012 New Year Honours, Taylor was appointed a Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit for services to television and business.[7][8] In 2013 Taylor was named Outstanding Maori Business Leader of the Year.

        In November 2012, Taylor spoke out against the high salaries being paid to New Zealand chief executives, saying chief executive salaries should be tied to how well they protect jobs and to the salaries of their staff.[9][10]

        In May 2014, Taylor was part of a team who were awarded a prestigious Sports Emmy[11] under the category "Outstanding New Approaches – Sports Coverage" for development of an innovative mobile application for the 34th America's Cup.

        On 13 February 2019, Taylor was named Innovator of the Year at the annual New Zealander of the Year Awards.[12] Awards organisers cited Taylor's business intuition and expertise as an exemplar of innovation in New Zealand. [13]

        Taylor's investiture as a Knight Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit by the governor-general, Dame Patsy Reddy, at Government House, Wellington, on 4 May 2021

        In the 2021 New Year Honours, Taylor was promoted to Knight Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit, for services to broadcasting, business and the community.[14]

        But then he seems to be his own man, rather then someone who is owned.

        Maybe the Labourites should boil their comments down to : We don't like this man because he is not kind to the government.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Taylor_(New_Zealand_businessman)

        • Patricia 2 2.5.1.1
          7 February 2022 at 10:58 am

          No mention of his brief tenure on the Board of Maori TV in 2013 ? Chair of Board was Georgina te Heu Heu ?

        • Blade 2.5.1.2
          7 February 2022 at 11:01 am

          The government has no time for independent thinkers…or people who want to take responsibility for their own lives.

          The government wants to decide when you eat, sleep and crap.

          Kind of like being in the Army.

          • Blazer 2.5.1.2.1
            7 February 2022 at 11:06 am

            What Govt have you identified in the world that we should admire?

            • Blade 2.5.1.2.1.1
              7 February 2022 at 11:15 am

              I haven't researched the topic. But off the top of my head – Switzerland?

              ''In 1993, Swiss voters accepted a constitutional amendment that authorized parliament to pass a "gun-abuse" law. The law was adopted in 1997 and went in effect in 1998. It preserves the right of citizens to acquire, own, and carry guns, including Swiss military-issue arm.''

              That's intelligence. Maybe Switzerland, by experience, realises freedom and peace is such a tenuous commodity.

              Unlike us, no Swiss resident need ever fear about dying on their knees.

              https://www.businessinsider.com.au/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2?r=US&IR=T

              • Blazer …
                7 February 2022 at 11:26 am

                I didn't think you had researched it.

                So you are not happy with the manifesto of any political party in NZ….very good…you have a plethora of issues to…whinge about.

                • Blade …
                  7 February 2022 at 11:37 am

                  ''I didn't think you had researched it.''

                  Straight off the top of my head. I just sourced and pasted a few facts to flesh out what I remember.

                  ''So you are not happy with the manifesto of any political party in NZ….very good…you have a plethora of issues to…whinge about.''

                  Correct.

              • Patricia Bremner …
                7 February 2022 at 11:49 am

                Look up their voting Law history. Women received the vote very late.

          • Robert Guyton 2.5.1.2.2
            7 February 2022 at 11:12 am

            Yeah! Dictatorial Government!

            We should be able to crap where ever we choose!

            Freedumb!!

        • Patricia Bremner 2.5.1.3
          7 February 2022 at 11:32 am

          No Sabine that is his qualities being recognised, often by this Government.. However, he is not God and was not the Chair of this meeting. He walked, not Verral.

      • aj 2.5.2
        7 February 2022 at 11:17 am

        'confidentiality' clause in this meeting?

        Exactly Graeme. In fact I read a news report last night this was the issue under discussion, he got fired up, and walked out in a grump.

        Once again he is set on creating trouble

        Can't find the link Sabine, sorry.

    • dv 2.6
      7 February 2022 at 9:45 am

      THIS is apparently what he is on about.

      Sir Ian Taylor says he hung up at the beginning of a conference call with Associate Health Minister Ayesha Verrall after he claims she asked him to stop writing "bad faith" columns in the Herald.

      Oh poor Sir Ian.

      • Blade 2.6.1
        7 February 2022 at 10:24 am

        I'm sure he's over it now…and has gone back to trying to help this government get through their ineptitude.

        What a great New Zealander.

      • Sabine 2.6.2
        7 February 2022 at 10:32 am

        Well it is his right. If they told him that he can not speak about this meeting then it is totally his right to simply not participate.

        Maybe some of the people in this government need to realise that they are there to 'serve' the public, not the other way around. And that their 'power' is fragile and temporary and that the next election is simply a few month a way and there are quite a few people in this country that will take great pleasure to send these little pencil pushers back into the realm of 'formerly known as'.

        • Patricia Bremner 2.6.2.1
          7 February 2022 at 11:38 am

          So you are a Right winger.?

          • weka 2.6.2.1.1
            7 February 2022 at 12:00 pm

            Please don't do that.

            • Sabine 2.6.2.1.1.1
              7 February 2022 at 4:42 pm

              Why? Let them show their colors Weka, and everyone who is not a 100% behind this government must be a right winger, because any Labour party member would know better then to not say, Yes, Ma'am, can i have another one.

              It is sad, pathetic, but then that is the current state of the left. And they must attack me and others, because at the end of the day, they know full well that Labour is the best thing they can get, because they never ask for better. They hold their nose, vote and ……BAU. Lol

              Phil Twyford once said, that i was the most left wing person he knew. I take that as a compliment, and it also goes to show that most Labourites are firmly in the centre of nothing.

            • Patricia Bremner 2.6.2.1.1.2
              7 February 2022 at 5:17 pm

              Sorry, Weka the tone got to me. I apologise to Sabine. It was childish.

          • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 2.6.2.1.2
            7 February 2022 at 1:13 pm

            I have yet to read anything positive about this government from Sabine.

            What that makes her, I'll leave others to determine.

            • Sabine 2.6.2.1.2.1
              7 February 2022 at 4:39 pm

              I said pretty much the same thing about National and in fact i was way more unfriendly to national. But at the time i also gave the benefit of hte doubt that the current Leadership in Labour would actually do what they said they would do.

              Fwiw, i have given to labour, i have had hteir billboards on my fence, but will not do so anymore. Heck, i still have a bottle of booze that i auctioned of Jacinda Ardern. and that booze is turning to acid piss in its bottle.

              I do not have to dance to the tune of a party that just voted to allow any man the right to access female only spaces – to the detriment of women, that can not build a single house, under whom house prices have gone up sky high, that can not for ideological reasons alleviate state sanctioned and state fostered poverty by refusing to actually raise benefit rates, and so on and so forth.

              The only grace i give this current lot of Taxpayers bludgers is their Covid response, and they are doing their darnest to make that achievement a thing of the past.

              And yes, i reserve my right to not pretend that this government is in any ways kinder then the last National Government.

              • CAnker the pig fucker …
                7 February 2022 at 5:06 pm

                I agree with much of what Sabine says.

                I too have worked many hard hours for Labour and donated some very generous amounts of money. All because I was desperate to get Key out and the fact that my Labour Party family heritage goes back generations. I have always voted Labour.

                And for the record, I think Labour have done an excellent job with the pandemic and have of late copped a lot of unfair shit about their response. I have wondered about the vacinne mandate for some workers. We can't afford to lose teachers and nurses and I think it would have been possble to find them work on-line, eg mental health work, working on health line. It has created an unhealthy divide. I believe it would have been better to continue to educated these people. In any medical intervention there will always be people who go against medical advice and refuse treatment.

                Labour have lost my support, possibly forever. Like Sabine I feel disgusted that they brought in legislation that would allow any man to access female spaces such as changing rooms and that they did this by stealth when the majority of people did not support gender id in the vote compass poll before the election. The have adopted a very new ideology and legislated for it. It is an ideology that is based on belief and there is no scienctific proof of i e the existence of this thing called gender identity. This ideology facilitates the medical transition of healthy children. This involves irreversible damage to young peoples bodies before they are able to give consent.

                When I watched the submissions on the self id bill I witnessed the female politicians looking like complete fools and being very rude to the submitters who were against the bill. MP's are there to serve us. It was completely unprofessional and frankly I can't vote for a party where MPs geniunely seem to believe sex is on a spectrum.

                Under Labour the housing crisis has gone to a housing catastrophe, inequality has got significantly worse and really the outcomes many of us were hoping for haven't occured.

                I am happily free of needing to align with any political party and its a relief to be free of defending Labour, which I have done for many years.

          • Sabine 2.6.2.1.3
            7 February 2022 at 4:34 pm

            totally i am Patricia. 🙂 You feel better now?

            • CAnker the pig fucker 2.6.2.1.3.1
              7 February 2022 at 5:07 pm

              If you criticise the left you must be right wing Sabine. wink

              • Patricia Bremner …
                7 February 2022 at 5:33 pm

                I prefer to call myself a supporter who tries to be fair. This Government has made mistakes as most do, however I find some of the invective distasteful.

                Anker, that is an important issue for you, and yes some of those women were impatient during presentations. That was arrogant. I'm sorry to hear you have left the Party.

                If you can not support Labour, please vote Green.

                • Sabine …
                  7 February 2022 at 6:44 pm

                  I can neither support the Labour or the Green Party as both parties are co-dependend on each other.

                  Besides both parties are responsible for the abomination that is the Self ID bill, and i will never vote for anyone who is busying themselves to hand over Womanhood to Men – be they Transexuals or Transvastites or jut men in search of a victim – in order to pretend to be 'progressive'.

                  Any party that allows men to self id into female spaces such as are found prisons, hospital wards, schools, public toilets, work place toilets, changing rooms, gyms, saunas, women lists in political parties, women listed jobs, women scholarships, women sports, woman awards etc and that would place rapists and pedophiles into womens prison on the count of them having women feels is a party that is not worthy of the vote of women.

                  And the same counts for any party that voted for that shit.

                  The misogyny of the left is as abhorrent as the misogyny of the right. Both serve to curtail women and their aspirations, and literally make public life so miserable that women will self select again out of public life.

                  You need to understand that I have no Party, it is not I that has left the Labour Party, it is the Labour Party that threw women under the bus all by themselves.

                • CAnker the pig fucker …
                  7 February 2022 at 6:58 pm

                  Thank you Patricia. That is the nicest anyone has been towards me on this site since I started raising this issue. It hasn't been easy to contine bringing up this issue. I really don't think most people understand what is happening with the gender ideology agenda. What is happening in the UK and US defies belief. The media have completely shut down what is happening overseas on this issue.

                  If you would care to watch Patricia, I will post a link of a detransitioner a young 19 year old girl who now has irreversible damage to her. body You only have to watch 5 minutes of it to realize what is wrong with this movement. Now 25,000 de-transitioners on a reditt site and growing. Some of these young women are from NZ.

                  It defies belief to me how anyone can think its o.k for a male bodied person to be in a change room with women, teenager girls and female children?

                  From my point of view it was the Greens that initially tried to sneak this bill in after the submissions had closed in 2019. It was just that some women in the Party were wise to it and blew the whistle.

                  The other thing about this moment is how if you challenge it, you are righted off as a bigot. I am not sure how much you watched of the submissions on these bills, but women (and some male presenters) were treated with contempt and not listened to at all.

                  • Patricia Bremner …
                    7 February 2022 at 9:10 pm

                    Hello Anker, I have a gay son, so I was shocked when he was offered conversion therapy from a Medical person twenty years ago. So I do understand your feelings. I don't deal in outlandish claims, and try to call things as I see them. We all want improvements, sadly sometimes that does not happen. All the best.

                    • CAnker the pig fucker …
                      7 February 2022 at 9:20 pm

                      Thanks for sharing that Patricia. I am quite shocked that a medical person offered your son conversion therapy 20 years ago. I might have hoped that medical people had stopped doing that at the turn of this century.

                      One of my dearest relatives is lesbian. Could never come out to her parents. I was the first in the family she came out to. She was barred from attending Pride in 2020 because she didn't accept gender ideology. She had been staffing a stall there and went outside to join her partner who was barred (her partner and a group of mostly older lesbians were banned because they have gender critical views). When my relative tried to return to the venue, she was barred by security guards. She amazingly stood her ground. I say amazingly as she is small, elderly and has problems with breathlessness as she has a tumor on her lung. They then called the police. This is a woman who has fought for lesbian rights all her adult life. Because she didn't agree with trans women are women, they stopped her returning to her stall and called the police. This is someone who has a shortened life span. That her own community could do this to her in the name of gender ideology was what first got me following this stuff.

            • Patricia Bremner 2.6.2.1.3.2
              7 February 2022 at 5:26 pm

              No Sabine I don't feel better. I came back to apologise and saw Weka's note.

        • Foreign waka 2.6.2.2
          7 February 2022 at 11:38 am

          I think these comments will not resonate for everybody, Sabine. We are well beyond the cult state now. The camp is divided between the ones folding their hands when the PM is in sight and then there are the ones that are just hanger oner's, and those whose self important status is lifted out from the oblivious. This pattern has been around all over the world for a long time. It is sad to watch but we still have a vote. Lets use it before it disappears.

    • mikesh 2.7
      7 February 2022 at 10:52 am

      If he was writing 'bad faith' articles she's entitled to say he should desist. However, I gather she did not attempt to prevent him doing so. His saying she did is probably the sort of thing she is talking about.

    • mpledger 2.8
      7 February 2022 at 12:29 pm

      As the article says he was asked to keep the contents of the meeting confidential because there were commercially sensitive details involved. The govt didn't want information to get out that would some businesses an unfair advantage over others.

      • Dennis Frank 2.8.1
        7 February 2022 at 12:44 pm

        Bullshit – perhaps. A businessman can be expected to refrain from comment on commercial matters out of respect for other operators – part of the culture.

        A typical govt ploy to impose censorship on free speech? Despicable, if so. However, if Verrall did have legal advice that imposing a confidentiality condition on the meeting was required, fair enough – provided she did so at the outset!

  3. Robert Guyton 3
    7 February 2022 at 8:11 am

    Yesterday, a 2 year-old child whose family were visiting next-door, disappeared. Her panicked parents and the people they were visiting began a frantic search along the street, as friends, neighbours and ultimately, the police and the fire brigade joined the search. I checked the little ponds and creek in my forest garden, as did a dozen or so people I'd never met before, who criss-crossed the garden, looking everywhere, as well as all of the possible sites in my own and my neighbour's land. Some folk were very emotional and anxious. An organised sweep got only so far, when the call went up, "Child found!". The wee girl had been found sleeping in a grassy nest, 5 properties away, up the hill.

    • Patricia Bremner 3.1
      7 February 2022 at 10:26 am

      That must have been a huge relief for all Robert.

      • Robert Guyton 3.1.1
        7 February 2022 at 10:54 am

        The mum was beside herself. Now, she's fine. Robyn found the wee girl. Robyn always finds what she's looking for – it's/she's uncanny 🙂

        • francesca 3.1.1.1
          7 February 2022 at 11:29 am

          I’m always puzzled that the very thing I’m looking for is always the very thing I can’t find.

          I make bargains with god , (god’s got wise to me) I tip the place upside down, empty buckets of weeds, turn over the compost heap,I crawl through the grass , and then 3 months later I find the seized up secateurs carefully placed in the crook of a branch.

          Your Robyn is a treasure!

          • Robert Guyton 3.1.1.1.1
            7 February 2022 at 12:29 pm

            You eventually FIND your secateurs!?!

            You're a step ahead of me then!

            Robyn enters a "mode" when she's searching – there's no point at all in saying,

            "Don't worry, I don't really need them"

            or anything givvy-uppy; she's completely deaf to my capitulations.

        • Patricia Bremner 3.1.1.2
          7 February 2022 at 11:39 am

          yesheart

  4. Adrian 4
    7 February 2022 at 8:59 am

    Well I never..l had no idea that Ian Taylor was solely responsible for the decision of the Government to order 40 million RATs as late as Feb1st. A strong case of relevancy deprivation I think Doctor!.

    • alwyn 4.1
      7 February 2022 at 10:13 am

      It's amazing what happens when you cast aside the blinkers and read stuff from a few more sources than the official propaganda from the PM's office isn't it?

      Perhaps learning these new things may persuade you to try it more frequently in the future. Who knows what you might learn that will open up new ideas for your edification?

      • Tricledrown 4.1.1
        7 February 2022 at 11:45 am

        Alwyn the envious.

        No other country has dealt with the Pandemic as well as NZ has.

        Western Australia has also done well.

        The economics of the Pandemic show that the Conservative's approach of opening early light restrictions did way more damage to the economy.

        Hermit kingdoms do better economically than let it rip John Key style.

        Read MçKinsey and Co International consultancies report on the difference between those who followed open up economy with light restrictions.

        It starkly points out the failure of the open at all costs both on the damage done to the economy and the heath system.

        Perhaps Hosking,Seymour.Tamaki,luxon etc should all read it.

    • Anne 4.2
      7 February 2022 at 10:49 am

      It looks to me like this fellow, Ian Taylor bears a grudge against this government. Have they not been hanging onto his every word?

      • Sabine 4.2.1
        7 February 2022 at 10:55 am

        Yes, that must be it.

      • Graeme 4.2.2
        7 February 2022 at 11:49 am

        I'm starting to wonder if he was stiffed of his commision.

      • CAnker the pig fucker 4.2.3
        7 February 2022 at 5:12 pm

        Actually Anne there was a recent article about Ian T in Stuff I think. I think he said he had always voted Labour and he is Maori and grew up in rather impoverished circumstances.

        When talking about his business he said he employed some very clever people who were the brains of what his company does. That is true. One of my relatives works for him.

        • Shanreagh 4.2.3.1
          7 February 2022 at 6:25 pm

          ……… I think he said he had always voted Labour and he is Maori and grew up in rather impoverished circumstances.

          I don't think this is quite correct.

          The Taylor boys were on the railcar from Gisborne and points south en route for boarding schools in the Wairarapa at the same time as I was. His father was a school teacher (Pakeha) and held in very high regard. The children, the ones I knew were younger than Ian, were well educated as you would expect the children of a school teacher to be.

          I have a very high regard for the Taylor boys…not in the least for Ian's being in the K-Q-Lated Risk band that used to play at some of our school dances.smiley

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kal-Q-Lated_Risk

          Though I'd venture to suggest that a boarding school education was more affordable for more then albeit with a big struggle and scholarships than now.

          On that railcar to Woodville where it had other connections were children going to 23 boarding schools – Napier, Hastings, Havelock North, Te Aute, Palm nth, Wairarapa, Wgtn, Marton, Stratford through to 5 in Auckland & 2 in the South island (Chch & Oamaru) who all got there via rail & Ferry connections. There were state & private church schools and Hukarere, Te Aute, Hato Paora, Turakina Maori Girls' College, St Stephens.

          A fairly large proportion were Maori as there was a Maori middle class (wrong words) from up the Coast, Gisborne and HB. This group had mostly always sent their children away to school.

          The neolib reforms ripped the guts out of not only the forestry etc jobs but also in service jobs, stock agents, stock pickers, nurses, teachers, farm managers, bosses of govt dept branches. It ripped away the rail transport for both passengers and freight.

          Got no idea on the current publicity about Ian Taylor.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Taylor_(New_Zealand_businessman)

        • Anne 4.2.3.2
          7 February 2022 at 8:23 pm

          It was a bit of mildly humorous teasing Anker.

  5. Dennis Frank 5
    7 February 2022 at 10:26 am

    Reti took a punt & it seems to have paid off:

    Dr Shane Reti says he's "very pleased" that Elon Musk is providing a satellite to Tonga after the country's telecommunication system was damaged in last month's volcanic eruption. The National Party MP sent an impassioned plea to the world's richest man in January asking him to help get Tonga back online.

    Now, engineers for SpaceX, which Musk also owns, are currently in Fiji to help restore Tonga's internet. Fiji's Minister for Communications, Aiyaz Sayed-Khaiyum, told local outlet FBC News that the SpaceX team will establish and operate a temporary ground station for six months while the work is done.

    "The Space Exploration Technologies Corporation [SpaceX] had applied for a temporary emergency telecommunications license on January 20, the sole purpose of this license is to provide an internet gateway," Sayed-Khaiyum told FBC News. "Space X and FINTEL are currently, however, in commercial negotiations to co-locate the earth station and connect to Fiji's internet gateway." When Dr Reti first heard that Tonga's internet had been cut off following the eruption, he penned a request to Musk who owns Starlink, a global provider of high-speed broadband internet. Starlink uses around 1700 satellites that can deliver internet access to remote locations as they orbit Earth.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/02/shane-reti-very-pleased-as-elon-musk-answers-his-plea-to-help-restore-tonga-s-telecommunications.html

  6. Sabine 6
    7 February 2022 at 10:35 am

    A new way to 'tackle' the reporting of Omicron Cases. Did the suits not just change the way they reported cases (using a different time frame for counting)?

    Oh my, would that fall under confuse the public and pretend to do something new?

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-michael-baker-suggests-a-move-away-from-daily-case-numbers/ZPS6RE3Z6OYL5NYFP5YCUGAKTA/

    • Patricia Bremner 6.1
      7 February 2022 at 12:01 pm

      Stop Sabine. If you had listened, the advice is "As the virus adapts so must we."

      • gsays 6.1.1
        7 February 2022 at 12:54 pm

        It is not unreasonable to adapt messaging as the population's attitude moves too.

        For example, when Hipkins triggers the tech that makes the passport invalid without boosters.

        That action may be a bridge to far for some and require different messaging.

        I understand this may not be an issue for you.

    • gsays 6.2
      7 February 2022 at 12:21 pm

      Another difference in the daily reporting around Covid is vaccination status of those hospitalised. This stopped late last year.

      Up until around Christmas, when it was approximately 50/50 (unvaxxed vs having had some Pfizer product) this was simple to find via Stuff or a link back to MOH.

      The only info I can find is the cumulative numbers. https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-case-demographics

      As Soundsplash showed us, the concern for the risk the unvaxxed posed needs to include the vaccinated as well.

      • UncookedSelachimorpha 6.2.1
        7 February 2022 at 12:31 pm

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/450874/covid-19-data-visualisations-nz-in-numbers

        Note the publication date of the rnz article is old, but the data is constantly updated

        • gsays 6.2.1.1
          7 February 2022 at 12:48 pm

          Thanks US, you may have posted this before for me, I have it bookmarked now.

          Over 80% of new cases (7 day rolling average) are fully vaccinated.

      • Craig H 6.2.2
        7 February 2022 at 3:51 pm

        One issue with daily reporting is the Ministry of Health don't report a number if it is below 5 because it may be identifiable, and another was that only the Northern Region DHBs were actually reporting it to Ministry of Health, so the daily press release can only state the number if it is 5 or higher. So few people are currently in hospital, the vaccination statuses are not always 5 or higher, so it can't be published.

  7. Dennis Frank 7
    7 February 2022 at 10:39 am

    Robert Lacey wrote an excellent history of the Saudi dynasty way back, and here he's given us some intriguing insights into the history of how the monarch got there: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60201088

    Queen Elizabeth II's first model for what became her destiny was her beloved grandfather, the bluff and bearded King George V (1865-1936). She called him "Grandpa England", which showed how astutely the little girl already grasped the essence of the royal business.

    George V was distinguished "by no exercise of social gifts, by no personal magnetism, by no intellectual powers," admitted his official biographer John Gore. "He was neither a wit nor a brilliant raconteur." The old king, in other words, was exactly like most of his subjects. But he had a sharp sense for survival – and also for symbolism.

    It was George V who shrewdly jettisoned the royal family's Germanic surname of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha in 1917. So it is hardly surprising that, more than a century later, the world should be in such admiration of the skills that Queen has deployed through her uniquely long and distinguished reign. She learned them first-hand from the House of Windsor's founder.

    Sea-loving George V was the source of his granddaughter's famous family nickname 'Lilibet'. In April 1929, on her third birthday, she made it to the cover of TIME magazine as 'P'incess Lilybet'.

    It was in these early months of 1929 that George V first shared his hopes that his granddaughter would one day ascend to the British throne.

    'You'll see,' he told Lilibet's father, who was visiting him during his convalescence, "your brother will never become King."

    "I remember we thought 'how ridiculous'…" the Queen Mother recalled in later years. "We both looked at each other and thought 'nonsense'." But the old king was adamant. "He will abdicate," he insisted to one of his associates – with extraordinary prescience, considering this was seven years before the event.

  8. Siobhan 8
    7 February 2022 at 10:41 am

    An interesting piece in the Herald today around Public holidays and their Deep unfairness …

    "Crocker was on the Holidays Act Taskforce that reviewed that Holidays Act in 2019. He says one of the reasons the law doesn't account for non-traditional work weeks is that those who create legislation tend to be weekday workers themselves, and so are less likely to recognise anomalies in how weekend workers are treated. The public holiday issue also reflects the lack of political representation for people who work non-standard hours."

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/deep-unfairness-of-new-zealand-public-holidays-large-section-of-our-workforce-miss-out/6OEGGAVTDN3HPAV56QFRWMQLFY/

    My italics/ bolds….substitute any phrase you care for…"rent" "don't have the option of private health care" "are unable to avoid or offset debt" etc etc

    • Belladonna 8.1
      7 February 2022 at 10:58 am

      This is absolutely true. And a real indictment against all of the decision-makers involved – not only legislators, but also those responsible for implementation.

      For many years, I worked for a large local body government organization – operating a 7 day service. For good operational continuity reasons, they wanted to shift some employees to work on a Tuesday to Saturday work week [NB: this didn't affect existing staff, the proposal was to do this as roles became vacant – they didn't want a union fight on their hands]

      The managers and HR were completely unwilling to understand that this meant that these employees would miss out on 4 public holidays a year. And when this point was made to them, they were equally unwilling to provide compensation (the suggestion was adding a day's leave to the next 'weekend' for the employee). They implemented their change, and, unsurprisingly, only the truly desperate applied for the new roles; and left as soon as they could find a better one. The consequence was a continual churn in staffing, which did little to promote the continuity they were looking for, and was very expensive and disruptive to the organization as a whole; as well as demonstrating to their large part-time or shift-based workforce just how little value they had to the M-F bigwigs in their offices. A real lose/lose situation.

      • Foreign waka 8.1.1
        7 February 2022 at 11:48 am

        Spreadsheet management, the new norm and quite a long time around now. This, you will see right now also applies to the supply chain.

  9. Herodotus 9
    7 February 2022 at 11:40 am

    As there are 2 members in my family who work Sunday yet only 1 of them also Monday, could not agree more with this article and how a portion of the workforce have been forgotten about due to politicians not been aware of a section of our population.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/461016/the-deep-unfairness-of-new-zealand-public-holidays

  10. Blade 10
    7 February 2022 at 11:47 am

    Talkback host Dave White is taking a beating at the moment.

    Why? Because he's giving anti vaxxers and Convoy participants a chance to express their views.

    It shows you how well this governments propaganda message has been embedded into the consciousness of our sheeple population.

    As Dave White said – do your own research.

    • observer 10.1
      7 February 2022 at 11:54 am

      To make this satire credible, the actor playing the comedy character "Blade" needs to be a bit more subtle. Phrases like "sheeple" and "do your own research" are just too obvious.

      • Blade 10.1.1
        7 February 2022 at 1:15 pm

        What can I say…I'm time poor.sad

        • Stuart Munro 10.1.1.1
          7 February 2022 at 4:15 pm

          We all have the same amount of time Blade.

          Heavens knows why you choose to spend yours here trolling. And if you're really as antivax as your posts suggest, shouldn't you be on the loon convoy? They need all the help they can get.

          • Blade 10.1.1.1.1
            7 February 2022 at 5:17 pm

            ''Heavens knows why you choose to spend yours here trolling.''

            That's a bit rich for a number of reasons.

            ''And if you're really as antivax as your posts suggest.''

            As you say ''suggests.''

            ''Shouldn't you be on the loon convoy?''

            Why? Some of them are looney. Off the planet. But why are you throwing the baby out with the bath water? I have yet to get a handle on how big this convoy is. But if it's large, that's a real warning for Labour.

            You do understand that don't you? The days of calling these people looney is over. Not only Labour has a problem at the moment…we as a nation have a problem. And it starts with divisions created by people like you.

            • In Vino 10.1.1.1.1.1
              7 February 2022 at 7:32 pm

              Blade

              To put it bluntly, it does appear to me that your time spent on this site is somewhat in heavy deficit in terms of productivity surge..

              • Blade …
                7 February 2022 at 8:52 pm

                I think I do alright compared with others on this blog.

                • Blazer …
                  7 February 2022 at 9:22 pm

                  'do alright'!…I give you 4 /10 for activity.

                  But kneejerk reaction,no research and facile trolling are not endearing..characteristics.

                  • Blade …
                    7 February 2022 at 10:07 pm

                    Says a master practitioner.

                    I will take the 4/10 considering I'm grit in the eye of this blog.

                    You need to stop travelling the blogosphere and concentrate on this blog. That'll enable your posts to develop more substance…and cut through.

                    Btw – what rating would you give Robert?

                    • Blazer …
                      7 February 2022 at 10:11 pm

                      Thank you for your advice.

                      I promise to ignore it.

                      Robert is a very knowledgable and responsive,tolerant commentator.

                    • Blade …
                      7 February 2022 at 10:26 pm

                      “Robert is a very knowledgeable and responsive, tolerant commentator.” indecisionlaugh

            • Stuart Munro 10.1.1.1.1.2
              7 February 2022 at 7:46 pm

              There's no baby in the bilge water you are so keen on getting people to swallow Blade. And why disparage the antivax loons – these are your people – the only ones likely to respect you for your views.

              we as a nation have a problem. And it starts with divisions created by people like you.

              No, actually, it starts with people trying to pass off ignorance as knowledge. The difference is important, and charlatans like yourself need to be clearly labelled, to reduce their capacity to mislead people accustomed to less dishonesty.

              You are of the tribe of Trump and Tamaki, and honest people rightly shun you.

              • Blade …
                7 February 2022 at 9:17 pm

                ''There's no baby in the bilge water you are so keen on getting people to swallow Blade.''

                I'm not asking you to swallow anything. It's just that you live in such a cocoon, another point of view is alien to you.

                '' And why disparage the antivax loons – these are your people – the only ones likely to respect you for your view''

                You now know for a fact I'm an anti vaxxer?

                ''No, actually, it starts with people trying to pass off ignorance as knowledge. The difference is important, and charlatans like yourself need to be clearly labelled, to reduce their capacity to mislead people accustomed to less dishonest.'

                Again an inability to understand a different worldview.

                ''You are of the tribe of Trump and Tamaki, and honest people rightly shun you.''

                Now you completely lose the plot. If you can't stand an alternative view…don't engage me.

                Go enjoy the Three News Poll.

                • Stuart Munro …
                  7 February 2022 at 10:07 pm

                  You now know for a fact I'm an anti vaxxer?

                  Near enough. If it squeals like a pig, and it wallows in the mud like a pig, chances are it's not a llama.

                  “If you can’t stand an alternative view…don’t engage me.”

                  I have a responsibility to rebut your lies, Blade.

            • McFlock 10.1.1.1.1.3
              7 February 2022 at 8:47 pm

              Tamaki said the same sort of crap at the "enough is enough" rallies back in 2004.

              There are always a number of loons waiting to coalesce around some looney cause or speaker. I suspect it's usually the same loons each time.

    • dv 10.2
      7 February 2022 at 12:01 pm

      Here's some research

      USA 925,832 deaths. 2,771 per million

      NZ. 53 deaths. 11 per million.

      • dv 10.2.1
        7 February 2022 at 12:31 pm

        Look More research

        USA 78,002,350 cases. 233,471 per million

        NZ 17,773 cases. 3,553 per million

        • dv 10.2.1.1
          7 February 2022 at 12:39 pm

          Even More research

          If NZ had the same rates as USA

          Deaths 13,855 cf act 53

          Cases 1,167,355. cf act 17,777

      • Blade 10.2.2
        7 February 2022 at 1:50 pm

        Maybe we should wait for the final tally of broken lives, lost opportunities, mental illness, a growing underclass and a tanking economy before you give us a death count comparative.

        Of course we won't be able to quantify the above mentioned because the living dead don't count as deceased.

    • Bearded Git 10.3
      7 February 2022 at 12:28 pm

      Are you vaccinated Blade?

      • gsays 10.3.1
        7 February 2022 at 1:12 pm

        In these times, that question is akin to "How much do you earn?" Very rude.

        Unless of course you arrogantly claim some 'right' to know.

        • Bearded Git 10.3.1.1
          7 February 2022 at 1:53 pm

          Rubbish gsays.

          The issue has been broached and is relevant to the comment made by Blade.

          But even if it hadn't been raised and relevant why should there be secrecy about vaccine status? Would it worry you revealing your measles jab? Surely those that profess to be "free-thinkers"smiley because they refuse a vaccine should be proud to reveal the fact and argue their corner?

          (I'm double vaxxed with booster to come soon.)

          • Blade 10.3.1.1.1
            7 February 2022 at 2:07 pm

            ''But even if it hadn't been raised and relevant why should there be secrecy about vaccine status?''

            Lol. Bearded Git comes down from the Appalachians to find out about vaccine discrimination.

          • Robert Guyton 10.3.1.1.2
            7 February 2022 at 3:07 pm

            Nothing wrong with asking. Demanding's different, but a conversational request shouldn't offend. I'd find a decision not to answer, to keep vaxx-status secret, disappointing, but then, I feel that way about real names (I have though, considered the anon-arguments).

        • Shanreagh 10.3.1.2
          7 February 2022 at 7:05 pm

          Really? I've got two jabs and a booster. Also a vaccine pass that is used most often at the library, as I cannot do without books and a couple of delis and a restaurant.

          So we take it that anyone who comes up with an answer like yours is non vaxxed? It is a subject of discussion at most events I go to…vaccines, boosters, numbers, how to change the world….. etc,

          Most vaxxed have no probs if someone asked I'd venture to suggest.

          Thinks…possibly you are joking……are you?

          • gsays 10.3.1.2.1
            8 February 2022 at 12:23 pm

            No, I am not joking. A view from the other side of the passport/mandate divide. This is a new subset of society.

            "Most vaxxed have no probs if someone asked I'd venture to suggest."

            No surprises there, doesn't make it a comfortable thing for all. You have seen the vitriol thrown about on this site- openly discussing denying health care/ erecting tents in the car park for the ill… Not a 'safe' place for a dissenting view.

            "So we take it that anyone who comes up with an answer like yours is non vaxxed?"

            You would have heard the saying 'to assume makes an ass of you and me'.

    • Robert Guyton 10.4
      7 February 2022 at 12:34 pm

      Where would we be without talkback??

      Finger on the pulse of the nation, talking with real New Zealanders.

      We miss Plunket, Banks and Williams dreadfully!

      Radio! Without those freedumb-fighters, you are dead to me!

    • weka 10.5
      7 February 2022 at 12:42 pm

      As Dave White said – do your own research.

      Most people don't have the science literacy to do their own research. Presumably what you mean is read what you want and draw your own conclusions. Problem with that is there is a shitload of false information out there, a big chunk of the population who don't have good critical thinking skills, and people largely time poor.

      • Blade 10.5.1
        7 February 2022 at 1:12 pm

        Correct. But what else can he say? BTW – Dave is double vaxxed. But I doubt he will be invited back on radio.

        Talkback is also tracking a large convoy. If that is correct, the government will make a serious misstep if they fail to address the crowd.

        Of course, they will be shouted down. But it will give comfort to government supporters who falsely believe the government has things under control. This May be a seminal moment for Labours election chances.

        • Bearded Git 10.5.1.1
          7 February 2022 at 1:55 pm

          You haven't answered me Blade-are you vaxxed?

          • weka 10.5.1.1.1
            7 February 2022 at 2:03 pm

            If people don't want to say, for whatever reason, they don't have to.

            • Bearded Git 10.5.1.1.1.1
              7 February 2022 at 3:01 pm

              Fair enough weka, but I find it a bit rich when people wade into the vaccine debate while refusing to admit to their vaccine status.

              • Robert Guyton …
                7 February 2022 at 3:10 pm

                That's a good point, Bearded Git – it would be no issue to decline to share vaxx-status, if the topic was unconnected. Why, I wonder, might anyone decline to declare?

                • weka …
                  7 February 2022 at 3:13 pm

                  I shared last year that I had delayed getting vaccinated and had two people go off, making up stories about me in other threads. I deleted my comment and had to moderate. I can completely understand why someone wouldn't want to say either way.

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    7 February 2022 at 3:51 pm

                    Well, that's one (valid) reason, weka. I wonder why others decline? I'm not pressuring anyone with my question, but others with a view might want to opine.

                  • Blade …
                    7 February 2022 at 3:52 pm

                    You are truly a wise woman, Weka.

                    I mentioned Dave White above allowing anti vaxxers a chance to express their views on the radio.

                    Twitter trolls are currently taking him apart.

                    These are scary times, for both the vaxxed and unvaxxed.

              • Muttonbird …
                7 February 2022 at 6:08 pm

                Boosted today and very proud of it!

                Hardly felt it, straight to work afterwards.

                I seriously cannot see the issue.

    • Foreign waka 10.6
      7 February 2022 at 12:54 pm

      A healthy democracy needs vigorous debate. Haven't seen any really lately, all falls into conformism, enforced by all means – bullying is just one. All news channels say the same and toe the line – how come? Democracy has died as soon as the ideologues took over. Maybe we have become an appendix of China without noticing? I am vaccinated but I do respect people who decide otherwise. And if we believe the propaganda then we have nothing to fear because we are vaccinated and it is the unvaccinated being at risk, it is their choice. In a free world, people can chose how to die. We just legislated for it didn't we? Or is this only for some illnesses but not for others?

      • Mike Roberts 10.6.1
        7 February 2022 at 1:24 pm

        Generally, I agree. We rarely see alternative views on NZ media and it's amazing what opinions are deemed racist by the mainstream. On vaccinations, I agree though I'm glad I don't have to make decisions on our virus response; it's a tricky situation to go along with a tricky virus.

        • Foreign waka 10.6.1.1
          7 February 2022 at 2:19 pm

          I think the government did what needed to be done at the time as there was no proven process to follow. What I do not agree with is that, with the containment of the virus the free voices, comments, questions have been silenced too. Issues are being dealt with somewhat dictatorial to see the wider population controlled like a kindergarten. The PM spin doctor numbers have increased exponential. One has to ask the question – why would that be needed? What is being hidden and only last minute we will get to know? These are tactics that have been used before. Unfortunately, I miss those voices from our esteemed high learning Universities to point out issues that are consequences of policies, inequities across all races, philosophical questions of what kind of nation NZ wants to be, is it really acceptable that we turn a blind eye on the failure of housing, law and order, income keeping pace with living expenses etc. All I see is division and I honestly belief this is on purpose to push policies through without voters consent. There seem to be a misunderstanding what democracy means. It does not mean that if you have the majority vote you can do whatever you like and if someone disagrees, just shut them up. Where did I see this modus operandi before?

          Its a sad state of affairs.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

      • Bearded Git 10.6.2
        7 February 2022 at 2:00 pm

        Foreign waka-but those 3% anti-vaxxers will end up putting pressure on the health service and they are also spreading misinformation in an attempt persuade others not to get vaxxed thus putting even more pressure on the heath service and potentially killing people. All of this based on false/made-up science.

        How can you respect this?

        • Foreign waka 10.6.2.1
          7 February 2022 at 6:15 pm

          BG – yes but those 3% are whittled further if you consider that some have exemption due to health issues and immune deficiencies, others are just convinced that they want a vaccine that is based on what was working without having to get every 6 months an injection – dead virus based and wait until available. I say, fair enough. By the time you come to the true anti vaxxers, you are down to a few who are noisy. Now, as far as I am concerned if you let them talk long enough they may come to realize that they talk in circles. This does not – and I emphasize – not ever excuse the curtailing of democratic rights. Ever.

          Besides, surely the other 97% who have vaccinated know that they have done the right thing? Or are there doubts?

          If the health service is underfunded and it is shameful that not even 200 IC beds are available nationwide, than lets stop spending on items we don't need right now, such as 3 billion unemployment insurance. We have unemployment benefit for those who need it and we can use the money to have more IC beds and nurses.

          Common sense has truly gone out the widows and no amount of telling everybody to be kind deflects. Priorities – we have voted for essentially prudent management of the NZ Economy, its defence against outside treats, law and order, social net that is just and effective etc.. all those basics that are needed to have a civilized society.

          • Patricia Bremner 10.6.2.1.1
            7 February 2022 at 10:51 pm

            What about those screaming outside schools? Those egging vaccinators and frightening children? It is not that they want choice, they want to block choice.

    • joe90 10.7
      7 February 2022 at 2:15 pm

      do your own research.

      Mesearch, when reality ain't cutting it.

      /

      https://twitter.com/saraschaefer1/status/1490007701065125890

      • Blade 10.7.1
        7 February 2022 at 2:33 pm

        New Zealand's Leftwing government media has their secret news source outed.yes

      • Robert Guyton 10.7.2
        7 February 2022 at 2:59 pm

        Oh, Lordy!

      • Shanreagh 10.7.3
        7 February 2022 at 7:13 pm

        Hilarious!

        Bit worried about downloading it to my brain stem though as I don't want it to crash my 5G, the magnet or the tracker that came with my Covid vaccine. Could I download it to my left hand little finger instead?

    • Shanreagh 11.1
      7 February 2022 at 12:17 pm

      Ha ha what do they think of cryptic crossword fiends. Too edumacated for me bro. Gee I dislike these people who make a virtue out of not being educated.

    • Molly 11.2
      7 February 2022 at 5:26 pm

      I don't know if you are aware that you are posting a link to a tweet by a week old account with 8 followers.

      In terms of ridicule, it's an easy target.

      In terms of understanding, discussion and resolution it doesn't work. An account with 8 followers is unlikely to be representative.

  12. UncookedSelachimorpha 12
    7 February 2022 at 12:35 pm

    I notice the freedum and I presume groundswell clowns protesting around tasman today. Some fairly nasty signs in places (e.g. 'jacinda ardern, get a real job bitch')

    Some should be prosecuted for crimes against grammar and apostrophe use, if nothing else.

    Lots of flags and signs, but not many people compared to the population size.

  13. Foreign waka 13
    7 February 2022 at 1:06 pm

    Just to reiterate my response from yesterday open mike to Corey Humm, Pat:

    Interesting isn't it? When you are amongst the plebs, you pick up stuff and sentiments:

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/02/05/maori-party-calls-for-removal-of-queen-as-head-of-state/

    • Dennis Frank 13.1
      7 February 2022 at 1:28 pm

      Radical politics:

      the party’s proposed Mana Motuhake plan would help set out how it would be achieved, including the establishment of a Māori Parliament and the implementation of all of the Matike Mai Aotearoa independent working group’s recommendations for constitutional transformation. It would also include the overhaul of the Treaty Settlement process

      Since constitutional reform has proven to be an agenda lacking traction for Sir Geoffrey Palmer, it's brave of them to go out on such a slender limb.

      Republicanism has lost whatever steam it once had. However replacing the monarch with the GG as head of state has the merit of simplicity, and could appeal to many.

      • Belladonna 13.1.1
        7 February 2022 at 2:05 pm

        Not if it means an election (and the inevitable party politicisation).

        The US has done Republicanism no favours over the last few years…..

        • Dennis Frank 13.1.1.1
          7 February 2022 at 2:17 pm

          I presume they will dream up something more substantial prior to the next election – normally any constitutional transformation requires a referendum so I expect it will take that form. Not enough time before the next election – so they'd have to incorporate a staged design to enable voters to see a strategy (for consensus).

          • Foreign waka 13.1.1.1.1
            7 February 2022 at 6:23 pm

            So than, He Puapua is being planned to be implemented then. With or without consent and detailed knowledge by the general public?

            • Dennis Frank 13.1.1.1.1.1
              7 February 2022 at 6:29 pm

              Labour are playing it safe for now. The thing is stuck in the pipeline:

              Who wrote He Puapua?

              The declaration working group (DWG) that authored the report, commissioned by cabinet in 2019, consists of a number of law and policy heavy hitters: Claire Charters, Kayla Kingdon-Bebb, Tamati Olsen, Waimirirangi Ormsby, Emily Owen, Judith Pryor, Jacinta Ruru, Naomi Solomon and Gary Williams.

              Their combined expertise includes Indigenous rights; Treaty and constitutional law; Māori-Crown relations; conservation, economic, justice and housing policy; human rights and environmental activism; governance in iwi, hapū, disability and NGO sectors; and te reo me ona tikanga.

              So what’s all the fuss about then?

              Words like “separatist”, “segregation” and “divisive” have been bandied about by Act and the National Party in regards to He Puapua. A couple of over-excited media commentators even called it “the end of democracy as we know it”. Considering the number of Māori advisory papers that have languished in obscurity after suggesting similar, and even more radical, measures this seems like quite an over-reaction.

              https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/06-01-2022/he-puapua-the-indigenous-peoples-report-that-caused-a-nz-political-ruckus-2

              • pat …
                7 February 2022 at 7:24 pm

                The biggest problem with He Puapua is the fact it is a deeply anti democratic document.

              • Foreign waka …
                7 February 2022 at 7:40 pm

                If it is such a great document, why was is not openly published? Why was it not put to the voter to have their say? Why was there not an open debate about it? Why is it railroaded under disguises of some sort and in peace meal by this government?

                One has no other choice but to conclude that NZ went from Colonialism via a painful road to Democracy and is now steering towards Totalitarianism by stealth to appease exactly whom?

                • Dennis Frank …
                  7 February 2022 at 8:17 pm

                  I know nothing of Labour's internal decision-making process but here's my best guess: the report is a plan for the 15 Labour Maori MPs to consider as a policy platform.

                  To do so, they must arrive at a consensus prior to making a recommendation to the Labour caucus. It's likely they would call for public service advice on the report too – to use as a guide for how the aspirations can be made workable.

                  They'd also probably have to run it by their own iwi & hapu in meetings for feedback. All such stuff takes time. Even if they achieve consensus eventually, Labour pakeha MPs could get cold feet real fast. Remember that Labour is all about the pretence of progress rather than the reality. The urge to use delaying tactics will be compulsive. The pandemic provides the perfect excuse to do so.

  14. Mike Roberts 14
    7 February 2022 at 1:12 pm

    Yes, so far, hospitalisations appear to tell a good story for the vaccines. However, these hospitalisations are almost certainly all, or almost all, due to delta. Omicron has definitely changed the cases statistics, with the vaccinated and unvaccinated about equal in terms of risk (i.e. they have a similar rate per 100,000). Hospitalisations seem to lag about 2 to 3 weeks behind cases so we may not get a clear picture, from an omicron perspective, for a couple of weeks yet.

    I think a case could be made for ending vaccine passes, given the now similar risk of infection between vaccinated and unvaccinated. I'd like to see that debate had in the wider community, media and government.

    • Mike Roberts 14.1
      7 February 2022 at 1:20 pm

      Sorry, this was meant to be a reply to a comment by Anne about hospitalisations by vaccine status. I don't know why it was placed out of thread though Anne's comment seems to have disappeared now.

      • Anne 14.1.1
        7 February 2022 at 3:39 pm

        Sorry Mike Roberts. I deleted it within a minute or two of posting because I realised the figures are less relevant in an Omicron world.

        The difference in the risk of infection between vaccinated and unvaccinated is likely to have narrowed because the current vaccines are not very effective in relation to the Omicron variant. Scientists are currently testing vaccines that are apparently effective against Omicron, and they should be available within a couple of months. That’s my understanding anyway.

        As for the claim that the variant is mild. That might be the case for younger people but some experts have warned that the elderly and the immune compromised are still vulnerable to serious illness requiring hospitalisation.

        • Mike Roberts 14.1.1.1
          8 February 2022 at 12:16 pm

          Right. I don't think an omicron based vaccine is that close. For current vaccines, with about a third of the whole population having been boosted and nearly 80% having had at least 2 doses, the fact that the percentage of cases that is fully vaccinated is no less than the proportion of population that is fully vaccinated suggest no efficacy for the vaccines against infection from omicron (though there is a possible explanation that might slightly raise the apparent efficacy).

  15. Dennis Frank 15
    7 February 2022 at 2:10 pm

    I get why commentators onsite here are so keen to avoid the implications of Waitangi Day. Better to front as sheeple, so you can let the platitudes roll over your head.

    Trotter, at least, is doing better:

    If “co-governance” is perceived in terms of 15 percent of the electorate imposing its will on the other 85 percent, then it’s a non-starter.

    Which shows how absolutely vital framing is to the success of any progressive agenda using the principle! Labour MPs are undoubtedly taking classes in Framing 1.01 – which is likely why their usage of the principle has been so muted so far. Waitangi Day was the obvious time to launch the thing. The PM ducked for cover instead.

    Trotter sees constitutional reform as inevitable despite sheeple aversion:

    Such decisions as have been made: the new history curriculum, Māori representation in local government, the Māori Health Authority, Three Waters; have only whetted the appetite of an increasingly impatient younger generation of Māori nationalists… Driven by the 15-strong Labour Māori Caucus, which must, itself, keep an eye on the even more unabashed radicalism of the Māori Party. Aided by a mainstream news media determined to make good the historical harms inflicted upon Māori by its deeply prejudicial coverage of New Zealand race relations. The drive towards constitutional transformation has acquired an momentum that cannot now be easily, or painlessly, slowed.

    Would it not be better for Labour, the Greens, and even National, to grasp the nettle and simply hand over the whole question to a constitutional convention?

    Using the recent Chilean constitutional convention as a model, the first stage of the process would be the nationwide election of delegates. Not only would this require the four-fifths of the population who are non-Māori to decide what sort of future they favoured, but it would also require the Māori promoters of a te Tiriti-based constitutional transformation to come out from behind the closed doors where, to date, so much of the detailed discussion of what their new Aotearoa might look like has taken place.

    https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/

    Although this scheme makes sense, the devil would lurk in the details of how the delegates are selected. Arm-wrestling the devil there would have to be a consensus-based process transparent to all, to produce a design with finesse…

    • Blade 15.1
      7 February 2022 at 5:03 pm

      Dennis, I have admired your determination to steer a middle course with your suggestions, criticism and beliefs.

      Your extrapolation and multiple takes on a given issue has been superb.

      I believe I can envisage the type of society you want New Zealand to be.

      Unfortunately things have changed drastically under this present government. And to a lesser degree with previous governments.

      The bad news is things have become binary in New Zealand (maybe the world).

      You will have to choose (in my opinion).

      1- Labour or National or a smaller political party.

      2- Progressive control of New Zealand by Maori, or making all people equal before the law and in statutes.

      3- Law and Order and Justice…or crime prevention and control.

      4- Basic education for all children.. or indoctrination into Green issues and soon to be slanted New Zealand history .

      If Maori cannot agree amongst themselves to start with( and they never will). How can we proceed as a nation?

      People are putting their faith in a new generation of New Zealander to move us forward, as us old red necks die off according to some. That new wave won't eventuate in my opinion. Advancing age will eventually bring cynicism to that generations hope of a new Aotearoa.

      I tell you this, Dennis, so you don't waste your time on those who are only capable of making binary choices – myself included (although by choice).

      • Dennis Frank 15.1.1
        7 February 2022 at 5:36 pm

        Thanks for the feedback Blade. smiley My dad was just like Muldoon (if you subtract the brains) so I learnt the art of psychological warfare from an expert during childhood. As eldest son of a hardline Nat supporter who was himself eldest son of a hardline Nat supporter I was expected to conform. Got thrashed most days of my childhood accordingly. sad Trouble is, it didn't work & I became a typical sixties rebel. devil

        Too late to stop now. I'll be on that middle way the rest of my life. One concession for you though: anything credible or useful from the right, I'll happily give them credit for it. I've been watching them carefully since the 1960s so I know I won't need to do so very often! wink

        I've done a couple of stints in the Green Party around 5/6 years each. I was an office-holder during the early 1990s, leading the process that created the party Constitution & Standing Orders, amongst other contributions. I'm currently alienated from them by the wokester thing.

        Re binary politics, situations can make polarising essential but better to triangulate whenever possible. That strategy goes for all levels up to & including geopolitics. I get that team-player psychology makes participants partisan in outlook but to me there's always a more satisfying game to player at the meta level. I accept my position could be age-relative!

        I empathise with the apprehension you feel re pc agendas, as listed in your points. Can I just reassure you that they will all be contestable – and contested?

        That's because consensus politics forces folks to think more and eases them out of prejudice the more push-back they encounter. Yes, it can also harden up polarisation as in the USA but goodwill is a part of human nature and the character-testing around finding common ground is natural. Incorporating one's spiritual self into one's political thinking is a good idea – expands vistas, illuminates ethics etc. Retaining a sense of humour in politics is essential too…

  16. Cricklewood 16
    7 February 2022 at 3:39 pm

    Looks like Bloomfield deliberately mislead the media… some might say he stone cold lied when asked.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-ministry-of-health-admits-requisitioned-rats-already-in-new-zealand

    "Bloomfield twice assured the public that tests taken by the Ministry were "forward orders" from overseas, not tests already in New Zealand"

    • Jester 16.1
      7 February 2022 at 4:16 pm

      Read the comments on the article they are very telling.

      • Belladonna 16.1.1
        7 February 2022 at 6:15 pm

        Can you summarize your take-aways from the comments?

        The Herald website is demanding that I subscribe to read the comments ATM (usually I can just log in – but not today).

        • Jester 16.1.1.1
          7 February 2022 at 7:15 pm

          They are all very anti the government and anti Bloomfield many asking for resignations.

  17. Blade 17
    7 February 2022 at 4:16 pm

    Aotearoa… a country losing its grip on first world status:

    Apparently the gummint is crowing that there are less people in jail. I believe them.

    ''New Zealand's prisoner population currently sits at 8993, which is 1542 fewer inmates than before Labour clinched the 2017 general election. * The big political countdown is on – are you ready? … Labour's law and order policy is committed to reducing the prison population by 30 per cent over 15 years.''

    Quote from link:

    "This is a freak thing. It hasn't happened in the 12 years I've been here – we've never had this sort of thing.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shooters-bar-brawl-kingsland-local-moving-out-after-seeing-man-shooting-into-sky/HJIMHJJG6RCQFEFYREOOHT66TM/

    • Puckish Rogue 17.1
      7 February 2022 at 6:02 pm

      Less people going to prison and more officers getting assaulted, does it make anyone wonder about the calibre of person that isn't sent to prison

      Also because less people are being sent to the prison then the ones that are sent have obviously done a number of very bad things, more so than usual

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/127707150/two-more-guards-assaulted-at-aucklands-mt-eden-prison-over-weekend

      'In the 2019-2020 financial year, the number of staffers assaulted increased to 889, compared to 654 the year before.'

      'He blamed that on a lack of consequences and prisons not holding inmates to account for violent behaviour.'

      “Prisoners have the belief that nothing they do will get them in trouble, they aren’t concerned about carrying out these actions.”

    • Peter 17.2
      7 February 2022 at 6:26 pm

      Do we have 'first world status' when we have so many social problems, so many in dire social circumstances and so many committing crimes? Oh, and a burgeoning numbers in gangs.

      We can't continue without slave labour imported from other countries, we can't produce the professionals we need in many occupations and we have dire health issues through the community. Drugs including alcohol are the oil for us to be relaxed, have fun and get through the crap of life.

      That all adds up to 'first world status.' Ah, we surely are the model of a modern capitalist consumer society.

      • Blade 17.2.1
        7 February 2022 at 9:49 pm

        ''Do we have 'first world status' when we have so many social problems, so many in dire social circumstances and so many committing crimes? Oh, and a burgeoning numbers in gangs.''

        You have me on that one. Maybe we only believe we have first world status?

  18. Muttonbird 18
    7 February 2022 at 6:16 pm

    Lol. ACT, lead by the biggest knob in New Zealand has dropped under The Greens to 8%.

    People are waking up to Rimmer's schoolboy stunts.

    Support for Labour is at 44.3 per cent, an increase of 1.6 points.

    National is up 4.4 points to 31.3 per cent.

    Meanwhile, the Green Party has overtaken Act, now at 9.6 per cent, up 2.4 points compared to Act on 8 per cent, down a massive eight percentage points.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/whos-up-and-whos-down-results-of-latest-newshub-reid-research-political-poll-revealed/RMBJIO333XRTWC4HJBIBBHD4NA/

    • Dennis Frank 18.1
      7 February 2022 at 6:24 pm

      Cool, and it makes RM look dodgy! Seymour will be consternated.

      The Newshub-Reid Research poll was conducted between 22 January – 4 February 2022 with a margin of error of 3.1 percent.

      In Parliament, you need 61 seats to win. Labour's 56 won't get them there alone, so they need the 12 seats from the Greens to govern.

      National is looking a bit beefier with 39 seats, but because they took it all from ACT – who've been whittled down to 10 seats – the right bloc only gets to 49 seats – 12 shy of a majority. The Māori Party, with their 2 percent, have 3 seats.

      This will be manna from heaven for Labour. All the angst from MIQ, etc, hasn't translated into any shift from centrists. Steady as she goes…

      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/02/newshub-reid-research-poll-national-back-in-30s-at-act-s-expense-as-labour-keeps-riding-pandemic-popularity-wave.html

      • Muttonbird 18.1.1
        7 February 2022 at 6:32 pm

        The Herald seemed surprised ACT's vote might have come from National, and back again.

        I guess when you pimp the false narrative that ACT is taking votes from Labour you might be surprised that it's not, and never has done.

      • swordfish 18.2.1
        7 February 2022 at 7:04 pm

        Preferred PM:

        Ardern 43.3% … Up 1.6

        Luxon 17.8% … Up 15.3

        Seymour 7.9% … Down 4

        • swordfish 18.2.1.1
          7 February 2022 at 7:16 pm

          Ardern & Seymour are almost certainly more popular than their respective Parties.

          [bearing in mind that the Preferred PM measure includes the entire sample whereas Party Support excludes the Don't Knows & those not intending to vote … so, if you compared apples with apples by re-calculating Party Support as a % of the entire sample, you'd find Labour below Ardern & ACT below Seymour].

    • Anne 18.3
      7 February 2022 at 6:54 pm

      NZ Herald 8th Feb. 2022

      Headline:

      National continues winning streak. Percentage gain almost treble that of Labour.

      Sub headline:

      Greens up slightly. ACT down but stable.frown

      • ghostwhowalksnz 18.3.1
        7 February 2022 at 7:03 pm

        Now changed to

        'Latest political poll: Large drop for Act sees bump in support for Labour, National and Green Party'

    • observer 18.4
      7 February 2022 at 7:38 pm

      As noted in previous poll discussions, it's the absence of change that tells a story, but doesn't make the headlines (because "news" is, um, new).

      The Greens' polling is remarkably consistent. The opposite of ACT, whose rise and fall is entirely dependent on whatever the National leader has said that week.

      One is a movement, the other is a moment.

      • pat 18.4.1
        7 February 2022 at 7:40 pm

        Of more interest is the trend….and the election is 18 months or so away.

        • Poission 18.4.1.1
          7 February 2022 at 7:47 pm

          or 6 monetary policy statements from the RBNZ,that is more interest.

        • observer 18.4.1.2
          7 February 2022 at 7:49 pm

          The "trend" is that every government in every democracy loses support in a pandemic, and especially when a party gets 50% of the vote under MMP, something never seen before and won't be seen again. This applies whether the government is notionally left, right or centre.

          Check out the approval ratings for Johnson, Macron, Biden, Morrison … in fact, any leader in any comparable functioning democracy. Ardern's is the highest.

          • pat 18.4.1.2.1
            7 February 2022 at 7:54 pm

            Frankly I dont care about Johnson, Macron et al…except for the decisions they make that impact us directly (and the occasional entertaining video)…the trend here is for declining support for the incumbent, and the economic stars are not well aligned for them to improve their position.

            • observer 18.4.1.2.1.1
              7 February 2022 at 8:00 pm

              And that's why talk of a "trend" is inadequate. Incumbent versus unspecified "Other"? The Other wins. Because it is whatever people imagine it to be. A blank sheet for wishful thinking.

              But in an election the imagined alternative is replaced by the real one. Namely, the economic policies of a National/ACT government.

              • pat …
                7 February 2022 at 8:06 pm

                There is no unspecified other…the reality of contemporary NZ politics is either National or Labour provide the PM and the general direction of policy….if the incumbent (Labour) are losing support then there is only one alternative….you can call that inadequate if you like, it dosnt change the reality

                • observer …
                  7 February 2022 at 8:38 pm

                  That really doesn't bear scrutiny.

                  e.g. Housing. Many voters currently dissatisfied, with good reason … and so at the election they will automatically turn to parties who have opposed even the limited moves made by the government? Tenants will happily vote for fewer rights? Bring back the tax loophole for property investors?

                  National might change their policies by the next election, but if they don't, simply saying "we're not the government" won't cut it.

                  • pat …
                    7 February 2022 at 8:40 pm

                    Voting is largely visceral…the vote is for change, not history.

                    • pat …
                      7 February 2022 at 8:58 pm

                      Consider…

                      Every year 30-40,000 die

                      50-60.000 turn 18

                      And we had (pre covid) high migration (27 odd percent not born here)

                      Labour and National have core support somewhere in the low to mid 20% mark (currently, that may well change)…..that leaves a big chunk of the electorate able to decide who holds the levers, and they are likely to have ltttle or no first hand knowledge of political history.

        • weka 18.4.1.3
          7 February 2022 at 8:09 pm

          The Greens appear to be consistent over all polls over time for quite some time now. Wish someone would do a poll of polls though.

          • pat 18.4.1.3.1
            7 February 2022 at 8:16 pm

            Yes the Greens are consistent….considering CC impacts you'd expect something more.

            • Robert Guyton 18.4.1.3.1.1
              7 February 2022 at 8:26 pm

              Something more…from whom?

              Labour and/or National voters, turning to The Greens because of CC?

              Why would they? I suppose that if they believed The Greens could sufficiently influence their traditional party of choice, they might, but if they want their favoured political slant to be “greened” by The Greens, they don’t need to vote for them – they need to ensure their own favourite gets in.

              • pat …
                7 February 2022 at 8:32 pm

                Poll support from all over obviously is the expectation….Labour, National, Act, NZ First, Maori Party et al and non voters….or if thats a little too specific…..the electorate.

                If your perception of risk changes so may your allegiance.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  7 February 2022 at 8:35 pm

                  As CC intensifies, The Greens support will rise, you think?

                  Given that it's been steady for years now, that doesn't seem to be how it works. People don't seem to change their political alliances because of meta-phenomenon (climate, pandemic etc.)

            • weka 18.4.1.3.1.2
              7 February 2022 at 10:55 pm

              Yes the Greens are consistent….considering CC impacts you'd expect something more.

              I take the 9 – 10% to mean that NZ, most left wing/progressive in particular, don't actually want a green government and don't actually want to do something meaningful about climate change. They say they do but something as simple as voting belies that.

              • pat …
                8 February 2022 at 7:04 am

                Or that doing something about climate change is not their priority….currently.

                Id suggest most dont have the luxury of living in either the past or the future.

                • weka …
                  8 February 2022 at 8:28 am

                  Or that doing something about climate change is not their priority….currently.

                  Same thing. We acted on covid because it was an emergency despite people not being ready. Climate is here now, and we're not acting.

                  Id suggest most dont have the luxury of living in either the past or the future.

                  Before we even get to the people who are struggling, there's a whole class of NZers who are doing just fine, who have plenty of resource and leeway in their lives to lead on change. And they're not. It's a lot of people.

                  Not sure why you think most aren't in that category.

                  • Sabine …
                    8 February 2022 at 8:35 am

                    Covid initially affected many of the very rich. Tom Hanks got it very early with his wife. So my guess here is that the very rich understood that covid don't give a dime as to whom it kills. And thus some urgency came to it. Also, Covid rules are an excellent tool for Crown/Mass Control, and that will be in the future applied mercilessly to any and all other emergencies.

                    Climate change, i can see a few very rich people truly believe that they can have their Elysium while the poor will languish on a planet that can no longer feed or house them.

                    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1535108/

                    • weka …
                      8 February 2022 at 3:07 pm

                      Yeah, but I wasn't talking about the uber wealthy in NZ, I was talking about the large number of middle class people in NZ.

                      Also, Covid rules are an excellent tool for Crown/Mass Control, and that will be in the future applied mercilessly to any and all other emergencies.

                      Yes, and this isn't new. We saw it after 9/11, even in NZ. I'd love to see a more nuanced discussion about this that doesn't require abandoning meaningful pandemic response. I do think the left have dropped the ball on this, and it's being left to people down the rabbit hole. It's not insignificant that the a chunk of anti-vaxers are also anti government and libertarian.

                  • pat …
                    8 February 2022 at 5:17 pm

                    Not sure what your point is….my post is observational, not a justification.

                    If I had the solution to moving people to focus on climate change I would have implemented it a long time ago….my comment about the luxury of living in the past or future is to highlight that most people spend their energy focusing on their immediate problems (rightly or wrongly)….and is a nod to the saying 'the past is a foreign country'….as is the political history of NZ for an ever increasing proportion of voters.

                    • weka …
                      8 February 2022 at 6:01 pm

                      Right. So my observation is that people focusing on their immediate problems is a limited analysis. I would say that people also focus on their immediate pleasures and desires.

                    • pat …
                      8 February 2022 at 6:26 pm

                      lol…you can say its a limited analysis, but you cannot say its incorrect….nor can you offer an alternative.

                    • weka …
                      8 February 2022 at 7:05 pm

                      I just did offer an alternative. I said that some people are focused on immediate problems, and some people are focused on immediate desires. This is consistent with my already stated position that most people don't care that much about climate action despite how they feel about it, and that a big chunk of NZ has the wherewithall to act and make change and just doesn't, because they want their lives to be focused on their desires, aspirations, goals etc.

                    • weka …
                      8 February 2022 at 7:06 pm

                      there's nothing particularly radical about that. Many people want climate action, they want the govt to sort it out, they don't want to change themselves or their lives, and climate change is in the background.

                    • pat …
                      8 February 2022 at 7:11 pm

                      And I said it was observational and that it wasnt incorrect…..and nothing you have said disputes that, but you feel the need to do so anyway….go figure.

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:The_Last_Word

                  • Sabine …
                    9 February 2022 at 8:33 am

                    Again it is the failure of the left to understand that 'Anti Mandate' is not "Anti Vax'.

                    And it is the failure of the left to understand that many on the 'left' even 'labour supporters' or 'previous labour supporters' do not support the Mandates, and do not support this segregation this government is forcing on communities and families.

                    And it is the failure of the left to be so without imagination as to only think that 'libertarians' and 'right wingers' will engage in acts of civil disobedience.

                    And it will be to the eternal shame of the left to have been silent, paralyzed by their own fear, that they did nothing.

                    Again, Weka, imagine that this will continue, and that you need a jab every other month, what will happen if people can't pay for these jabs and hte government no longer pays for them? that is the only question that i would like answered.

                    • weka …
                      9 February 2022 at 8:41 am

                      ok, so the only thing you want to know is who will pay for covid vaccinations if we need them monthly and the government won't pay for them?

                      1. if vaccination was needed monthly against the current covid virus, I doubt that we would have a programme trying to get 90%+ because compliance would be very difficult.

                      But consider this. What if we had a pandemic with a 50% death rate? What would you find acceptable then? I'm asking because there's obviously a line which more people are going to be ok with. In which case, the issue isn't the mandates, but whether the severity of the pandemic warrants them

                      2. what public health vaccines that need very high rates have not been paid for by the government? I find your question odd tbh, it just seems a vague potential compared with many other more urgent and obvious ones. Like, what's the long covid rate from omicron?

                      Btw, I know that not all vaccinated people support the mandates. But most do. And most people against them are freedom protestors, and many of those are anti-vax and anti-caution. So while some people like to misrepresent the anti-mandate politics as being anti-vax, others like to misrepresent the anti-mandate politics by overstating support.

                    • Sabine …
                      9 February 2022 at 8:46 am

                      NO i want to know what will happen if people can not pay for the Vaccines and the Government does not provide it anymore, yet the Mandate is still up.

                      What will happen to those that can not afford it. This is simply looking at a future say in 5 years?

                      You yourself are very much correct when you say that Labour will not be in government forever.

                      It is not about what i find acceptable, it is about what any government can and will do. And i find the scenario that I posit very feasible, specifically coupled with Climate change, loss of habitat and farmable land and so on and so forth.

                      We right now have over 90% vaccinated and we have people calling others who are anti Mandate 'feral' 'scum' etc etc etc. IF you can't see the dehumanising going on right now, than i have pegged you wrong. And in that case sorry for engaging you, as clearly we will then be not talking to each other but past each other.
                      And i forsee literal slum of people who can not participate in society for lack of jab – that they can’t afford.
                      And by then the death rate will be something no one cares about. After all the ones dying are those that are of no importance to government.

                    • weka …
                      9 February 2022 at 8:56 am

                      IF you can't see the dehumanising going on right now, than i have pegged you wrong. And in that case sorry for engaging you, as clearly we will then be not talking to each other but past each other.

                      this is the point where I say fuck off Sabine. If you're not going to bother listening to what I say and understanding my views, then there's not point in talking. I've already said that there are problems with the mandates, including the ostracisation and messaging. I consider the mandates a necessary evil in the short/medium term. I've made coherent arguments as to why.

                      We don't even know what's going to happen with omicron in the next few months, let alone in five years time. Yes, we should be looking at the mandates, alongside the other tools we are using, but we're in the middle of a vaccination programme as we gear up for the first really big wave of covid we've had. Now is not the time to remove the mandates, and we cannot know how long they will be needed until we see what omicron does.

          • Blazer 18.4.1.3.2
            7 February 2022 at 9:00 pm

            Don't know whether the GP is keeping their powder dry,but a policy of restoring the Kiwi Dream of home ownership might go down well,considering recent evidence that a majority of NZ'ers want property prices to,…decline.

            Labour is not interested and the comments of a number of long term Labourites here suggest they have had enough of ….'Natz lite'.

          • Patricia Bremner 18.4.1.3.3
            7 February 2022 at 11:01 pm

            Pleasing Weka Did you read the item on Long Covid? The States have a huge wave of it.

            • weka 18.4.1.3.3.1
              8 February 2022 at 3:08 pm

              haven't seen the idem Patricia, do you have a link or reference for where you saw it?

    • Muttonbird 19.1
      7 February 2022 at 6:29 pm

      Is this the Voices for Freedom crowd? I saw a billboard today. It was a rudimentary cartoonish figure with several syringe needles sticking out of him. It asked, 'how many times before I get my freedom'.

      These rural, anti environment, anti-social clowns need to be held to account for their anti-vax views.

  20. Shanreagh 20
    7 February 2022 at 6:33 pm

    Here is an interesting Canadian Broadcasting Corporation interview (7mins) about the convoy in Ottawa by a University of Ottawa Criminology Professor Michael Kempa

    https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2000247363674

    Hopefully we will all know that there are several different 'actors' in this protest and not all of them will have motives as pure as the driven snow (lots of it there ATM)

  21. Sabine 21
    7 February 2022 at 6:53 pm

    Seriously, why can they not just state the truth, why do they have to lie?

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-ministry-of-health-admits-requisitioned-rats-already-in-new-zealand/KZBQFKQ5IH5PWAAZDVPYIEEWDY/

    The Ministry of Health has backtracked on a claim by director general of health Dr Ashley Bloomfield that tests requisitioned from private businesses were not already in New Zealand when the Ministry took them.

    Last month, when news broke that the Ministry was requisitioning tests ordered by private companies for its own stocks, Bloomfield said private and public orders of the tests were being "consolidated" into one order for the Government.

    Bloomfield twice assured the public that tests taken by the Ministry were "forward orders" from overseas, not tests already in New Zealand.

    "Many businesses already have tests onshore and we're not requisitioning those or doing anything like that," Bloomfield said.

    This was only partly correct. While tests from one of the manufacturers, Abbott, were not being requisitioned, tests from another manufacturer, Roche, very much were.

    He added, "we have discussed with our three main suppliers which are Abbott, Roche and Siemens, that forward orders of tests that haven't arrived in the country be consolidated into the Government's stock so that it is there for the whole country including private businesses".

    While no stocks of Abbott tests that are already in the country have been requisitioned, a substantial stock of Roche tests have been, a fact the Ministry now admits.

    A spokeswoman from the Ministry acknowledged it "did take the full February allocation from Roche and their stock on hand in New Zealand as part of having our orders fulfilled by Roche".

    However, the spokeswoman said this "did not include any 'delivery confirmed' Roche orders".

    She said Abbott, Roche and Siemens had been asked " to provide information regarding customers that may have been impacted by our expectation that Government orders are prioritised for New Zealand's Public Health Response."

    snip

    When asked about the requisitioning fiasco, Bloomfield and ministers tend to answer with reference to Abbott's tests, which had not been requisitioned.

    Maybe we should rename the Ministry of Health the Ministry of Truth and 'Health'. And maybe Sir Ian Taylor who complained about being told to not speak without Ministry of Health permission is saying the truth.

    The incompetence is not that they did not order the tests in time, its not that they thought or maybe believed that Covid would never come here, the incompetence lies in them not admitting the truth to something that is easily verified as this article shows. Its the incompetence coupled with arrogance that makes these guys so off putting.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 21.1
      7 February 2022 at 7:00 pm

      What day is your Herald column …asking for a friend

      • Sabine 21.1.1
        7 February 2022 at 7:11 pm

        today, first article on the frontpage to the right.

        Covid 19 Delta outbreak: Ministry of Health admits requisitioned RATs already in New Zealand

        7 Feb, 2022 01:10 AM 4 minutes to read

    • Dennis Frank 21.2
      7 February 2022 at 7:05 pm

      I suppose the best gloss the ministry would put on it would be that nobody within knows what the others are doing. Silo thinking imposes one silo upon each public servant, to isolate them.

      I offer this escape clause to the bunch of commentators onsite here who seem to be in perpetual denial of public services failures.

      The truth/falsity binary may apply, but the culture of the bureaucracy seems to be generated by the privileged-caste status consciousness deriving from their neocolonialist employment system. It seems to generate a collective sense of entitlement. Misbehaviour then ensues, as a natural consequence.

      The law is used to protect those who do wrong. Thus there are multiple origins of their ethos of moral corruption…

  22. ianmac 22
    7 February 2022 at 7:49 pm

    Poll out today.

    Labour has seen a bump in support in tonight's Newshub-Reid Research political poll, while National and the Green Party also went up – at the expense of Act.

    Support for Labour is at 44.3 per cent, an increase of 1.6 points on the last Newshub-Reid Research poll in November.

    National is up 4.4 points to 31.3 per cent in the first such poll under leader Christopher Luxon.

    Meanwhile, the Green Party has overtaken Act, now at 9.6 per cent, up 2.4 points compared to Act on 8 per cent, down a massive eight percentage points.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/latest-political-poll-large-drop-for-act-sees-bump-in-support-for-labour-national-and-green-party/RMBJIO333XRTWC4HJBIBBHD4NA/

  23. Descendant Of Smith 23
    7 February 2022 at 10:27 pm

    Was curious as to what was happening with jobs and the low unemployment rate as well after reading someone whinging about tax creep blaming that on the increased tax take by government – it must be hard to simultaneously say the government is ruining the economy through lockdowns and also complain because the tax take is up – something that would only be likely if A: there were more jobs and B people were getting paid more.

    Certainly some of the local restaurants who pivoted to add home delivery have picked up a lot of new customers who previously would not have entered their doors. They couldn't be much happier.

    I imagine restaurants who depended on back-handers to tourist bus drivers to drop bus-loads of tourists to their restaurant are struggling though. Stats NZ are producing job information on a weekly basis now but I've used the monthly information to do some comparing between February 2020 and December 2021.

    So what industries are doing well and which are not. Comparison is February 2020 before the first lockdown in March 2020 to December 2021.

    Agriculture, Forestry and Fishing

    Up 5,841 jobs. I find this interesting because February is right into the fruit season and December not so much. That is quite a lot more jobs.

    Mining

    274 more jobs. But, but, but Labour and The Greens are getting rid of mining!

    Manufacturing

    2,648 more jobs. We are obviously getting on with making stuff we are struggling to import.

    Electricity, Gas, Water and Waste Services

    1,594 more jobs. No pun intended (schoolboy humour there). Seriously though I did hear that people staying at home did put quite a bit of pressure on the domestic sewerage systems.

    Construction

    23,300 more jobs. 13% jump in jobs. Must be employing a few more New Zealanders in there somewhere.

    Wholesale Trade

    3,696 more jobs

    Retail Trade

    18,671 more jobs.

    Accommodation and Food Services

    381 fewer jobs. Much less than I would have thought. That suggests to me areas dependent on locals are likely doing better than those highly dependent on tourists.

    Transport, Postal and Warehousing

    3,037 fewer jobs. Transport is interesting as in quite a few places they are struggling to get bus drivers – yet lots of people are no longer working here. I suspect quite a few have gone off to better paying industries.

    Information Media and Telecommunications

    823 fewer jobs. I think they might have got rid of some of the wrong people given by the lack of analysis in many areas and the continuing rise of opinion masked as news.

    Financial and Insurance Services

    6365 more jobs. Can understand that. Financial complexity in time of crisis – advice might be useful. Poor people of course don't need it. When 40% plus of your income is going to your landlord because of the market then their isn't a lot to get advice on is there.

    Rental, Hiring and Real Estate Services

    Up by 4% – 1,464 more of them. Mainly I'm picking at the leech end – RES.

    Professional, Scientific and Technical Services

    16,481 more of these jobs. Yay for science. The educated class are certainly doing well.

    Administrative and Support Services

    1,098 more. Someone has to shuffle the paperwork.

    Public Administration and Safety

    13,482 more jobs. Probably not all police – more security guards springs to mind.

    Education and Training

    8,500 more jobs. Slightly puzzling this one given the hue and cry over the lack of foreign students. Could it be that those students generate lots of revenue for the owners but few jobs for the population. Surely not!

    Health Care and Social Assistance

    21,617 more jobs here. Not surprising – it is a pandemic

    Arts and Recreation Services

    The biggest loser here. 3,277. This worries me – arts and recreation contribute to the well-being of society in many, many ways – even of some of the practitioners are slightly eccentric. Takes a lot to get going and to maintain. Oily rag stuff as well sure but we need a thriving arts scene.

    Other Services

    6,188 fewer jobs. Don't know what is in here so can't really comment.

    Overall there are 55,000 more jobs for men and 68,000 more jobs for women.

    That is why the tax take is up. That is a lot more jobs than before COVID-19 hit.

    http://infoshare.stats.govt.nz/Default.aspx

  24. Just Saying 24
    9 February 2022 at 9:15 am

    These mandates are nothing like the measures after 9/11.

    Do you need to see a dentist? What about elective hospital treatment?

    Immediate pleasures? What about immediate needs?

    Weka I hear your more subtle slurs. But here's what I hear most from the anti vaxxer fraternity: 'me me me me me me me me….'

    And we all need to be able to talk. I'm trying to not be angry. It's hard.

  25. Just Saying 25
    9 February 2022 at 9:56 am

    These mandates are nothing like the measures after 9/11.

    Do you need to see a dentist? What about elective hospital treatment?

    Immediate pleasures? What about immediate needs?

    Accidental. Second version applies. Just on my way to the dentist. I got the bar-code because I need elective surgery. I’ve been in serious pain so long I’ve forgotten what non-pain feels like. And I can only walk a little way, with difficulty.
    Didn’t think about the dentist. I feel every inch of the hypocrite I’m being.

    Damn put the explanation in the wrong place.
    Apologies.

    Weka I hear your more subtle slurs. But here's what I hear most from the anti-anti- mandate fraternity: 'me me me me me me me me….'

    And we all need to be able to talk. I'm trying to not be angry. It's hard.