Open mike 07/04/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 7th, 2013 - 196 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

196 comments on “Open mike 07/04/2013 ”

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  1. Jenny 1
    7 April 2013 at 8:14 am

    Like fracking, drilling down for human resources gets more sophisticated.

    Worried about unwittingly employing unionists?

    Don’t trust leftists?

    Hate gays?

    Then digital strategists Contagion might be the recruitment agency for you.

    Applying for a job, the recruiters at an employment agency may ask job seekers to “friend them” on facebook so that they can get a complete profile.

    Tom Bates, the social influence director for digital strategists Contagion, said employers would look at a prospective employee’s social media presence to validate what the candidate was saying about their online profile.

    Contagion Strategies, (such a meaningful name)

    “When I am recruiting . . . I look first and foremost on LinkedIn. I look at the experience people have, their connections, because it gives a really open, transparent, easy way to source relevant people.

    “I also look at all their other social media identities to get more of a sense of who they are, outside of the one-hour interview I may have with them. I look at their Facebook and Twitter and potentially Instagram and beyond to make sure there is a good cultural fit.”

    “Culture”. Hmmm, another word imbued with meaning.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/8518739/Bosses-now-hunting-your-Twitter-raves

    • The Al1en 1.1
      7 April 2013 at 8:38 am

      “Applying for a job, the recruiters at an employment agency may ask job seekers to “friend them” on facebook so that they can get a complete profile.”

      I’d say whilst I’m happy to be judged by Facebook friends by a middle management type, I’d rather leave a fresh stool sample on the middle of your desk so you could get a proper, in depth look at my character.

      • muzza 1.1.1
        7 April 2013 at 10:01 am

        Yup, they assume people have a social media foortprint.

        The recruitment industry – Yes, one of the pillars of upstanding, professional behaviour!

    • happynz 1.2
      7 April 2013 at 10:36 am

      Tom Bates, social influence director for digital strategists Contagion…

      Social influence director? Sheesh…What next?

    • millsy 1.3
      7 April 2013 at 10:50 am

      This seems to be more about employers wanting to poke their nose in where they have no business than anything else.

      What I write on my Facebook page (which is friends only), or anywhere else on the internet is none of my boss’s business.

      • Murray Olsen 1.3.1
        7 April 2013 at 2:54 pm

        Unfortunately, they’re making it their business. The world is turning into a very sick and controlled place.
        I have the freedom to write what I think, because I’ll never have to apply for another job. If I did, I’d have to accept that such freedom may come at a cost. I like to think that I wouldn’t change.

      • ghostrider888 1.3.2
        7 April 2013 at 5:32 pm

        thanks to “social media footprint” sniffing, I burned the online profiles of mine for a while, yet, i feel a road-trip a-comin on. Yeeha

        “I am a shotgun rider on
        For The Standard pinto line
        The desert is my brother
        My skin is crackd and dry
        I was ridin’ on a folk coach
        And everything was fine
        Til’ we took a shorter route to save some time
        The bankers only fired once
        They shot us in the chest
        They may have wounded us but
        They’ll never get the best
        Of better men…
        We’ll ride again.

        And we’re gonna ride, we’re gonna ride
        Ride like the one-eyed Jack of diamonds
        With the devil close behind
        We’re gonna ride.

        (I’m gonna find me a reckless woman
        Razor-blades and dice in her eyes
        Just a touch of sadness in her fingers
        Thunder and lightnin’ in her thighs).

        I fly a starship across the Universe divide
        And when i reach the other side
        I’ll find a place to rest my spirit if I can
        Perhaps I may become a highwayman again
        Or it may simply be a single drop of rain
        But I will remain
        And I’ll be back again, and again, and again, and again…”

        and Thats’ Country folks!
        (still Georgia, paraphrased of course).

  2. Saarbo 2
    7 April 2013 at 8:30 am

    Patrick Strange (Transpower) clarifies on The Nation that transmission lines are essentially ready to carry electricity efficiently from Manapouri to the North Island.

    Why has it taken this long for the media to get this info to us.

    As recently as last Tuesday Matthew Hooten (Nine to Noon, Tuesday 2nd April) stated that we would lose 100% of Manapouri’s power in the transmission to the North Island.

    There is something really hopeless about our mainstream media…all they had to do was ask Patrick Strange but preferred to take the lazy approach and guess.

    • Colonial Weka 2.1
      7 April 2013 at 8:47 am

      People like Hooten have their own agenda beyond any journalistic intent, so I don’t think we can expect anything else from them.

      The actual journos though, that is a worry. Did you see Trotter’s critique of Jane Clifton’s inability to do even basic research?

      http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/04/06/following-jane-clifton-down-the-memory-hole/

      • Saarbo 2.1.1
        7 April 2013 at 9:39 am

        Yes CW, I have responded to a comment by Matthew Hooten on that Post. The laziness of our media is beyond belief. So not only biased towards the Right but also lazy. The sad thing is that we dont know what is fact and what is fiction…Susan Wood states that China has a 100 new Aluminium Smelters…fact or fiction, we wouldnt know?

        • David H 2.1.1.1
          7 April 2013 at 10:30 am

          Fiction. I watched her interviewing Shearer this morning. No Comment.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aluminium_smelters

          • Saarbo 2.1.1.1.1
            7 April 2013 at 12:35 pm

            haha, spot on DH…Thirty f#$%#* Four smelters in China.

            Susan Wood, just lie to make a point…shocking. Join Jane Clifton, Matthew Hooten…

            • ghostrider888 2.1.1.1.1.1
              7 April 2013 at 12:56 pm

              yes, I thought S.Wood was indeed deteriorated, thankfully we had Helen to ponder on before shifting the focus to another community of faith. sigh. man, that David Shearer sure is a hard man to be fond of.

        • Rhinocrates 2.1.1.2
          7 April 2013 at 12:43 pm

          I’m amazed that anyone takes Hooton seriously. Christ, even Slater calls the smarmy slimebag a “corporate whore” and that’s saying something!

          • ghostrider888 2.1.1.2.1
            7 April 2013 at 12:53 pm

            whose the “icon” architectural one? (just curious)

            • Rhinocrates 2.1.1.2.1.1
              7 April 2013 at 12:56 pm

              Stanley Kubrick at the moment

              • ghostrider888 …
                7 April 2013 at 1:02 pm

                ahhh. Figures. some of your writing is amazing (if not restrained) when you emerge from your den; i must get a computer attached to the cyborg cycle to keep in touch; gets a little lonely between worlds at times. Thank God for the internet (the rider reluctantly concedes). I also enjoyed Barry Lyndon (seen so many films, just watched Incendies; recommended).

                • Rhinocrates …
                  7 April 2013 at 1:06 pm

                  Scottish heritage… so restraint is not something I can really manage naturally. I’m probably back in my den for a while – commitments and all that… Cheers.

          • felix 2.1.1.2.2
            7 April 2013 at 5:13 pm

            “Christ, even Slater calls the smarmy slimebag a “corporate whore” and that’s saying something!”

            Yeah but Slater is just jealous because he’s generally relegated to being a small-to-medium-sized-enterprise whore.

      • Ad 2.1.2
        7 April 2013 at 12:26 pm

        Lovely column from Trotter. Imagine if there was a leader on either the Left or Right that was prepared to bring together a national development conference as both National and Labour did in t he early 1960s. To presume simply that there was a thing called the nation, that was developing, and that we were all in it. That would be leadership worth aspiring to have. It’s not a fascist impulse, just a way of unifying and organising us.

    • tc 2.2
      7 April 2013 at 9:27 am

      Further evidence that RNZ has become the govt’s soapbox, allowing hooten to do his shouty rant routines and push his backers lines is one reason i dont listen anymore.

      Morning report is toothless and mora may as well be barbie it’s so vacuous, I find checkpoint the only section with any bite.

    • Ad 2.3
      7 April 2013 at 11:53 am

      That supports LPrent’s argument last week that the electricity should be redistributed and the whole-of-New Zealand power price should be lowered. Certainly separates “how to support Southland” and “what to do with the potential electricity” more cleanly.

      • lprent 2.3.1
        7 April 2013 at 10:21 pm

        Yeah, it is all in the shuffling of supply and demand. The balance of power consumption where power gets produced compared to where gets consumed merely moves a few hundred kilometers further north on average. We lose a bit more in transmission on average, but have more power available to do what needs to be done more cheaply than would otherwise be possible.

        I’m always surprised when I read people talking as if the power from a dam in the lower SI is carried all the way to Auckland. It isn’t as if the packets of power are dumped into the grid witha label attached and moved discretely in the grid as a block. Railways and trucks do that. Electricity does not.

    • aerobubble 2.4
      7 April 2013 at 12:17 pm

      The claim that there would be a huge glut of electricity just doesn’t stack up. Key
      spent too long overseas and does not understand that Manapouri is at the other
      end of the country from the demand junkie Auckland. Any new consumer of electricity
      would have to be near the source of the supply, otherwise the cost of supplying the N.I
      would force line prices up (due to the losses on the line).

      • aerobubble 2.4.1
        7 April 2013 at 12:20 pm

        Its pretty simple, growing the NZ economy requires taking advantage of cheap energy sources and that means passing on cheap prices to entrepreneurs and homes, so they can shift their
        expenditure to more productive activities.

        • Colonial Weka 2.4.1.1
          7 April 2013 at 12:41 pm

          We don’t need to grow the economy, and to do so at this point in history is folly of the worst kind. We need to conserve energy and resources for the hard times ahead (PO, CC, GFC etc)

          • aerobubble 2.4.1.1.1
            7 April 2013 at 1:48 pm

            I agree the term is loaded. But we need to lower the center of gravity of the economy away from the heights of high finance and markets. This means that the roots, the people, in the economy need more wiggle room, lower energy prices would make it easier for them to use what savings they have or get to conserve more energy and resources. The old adage nothing ventured nothing gained, all new activity has a cost to it, money, energy. The GFC essentially is a market signal that what we are doing now is out of balance with real needs because essentially very people globally – the richest – have been handed the ability to change the world economy (and have no incentive to as its to their loss if they do).

            What Key represents, proposes, wants, is not growth, he wants more waste, more imbalance, more veneer of control, of power.

    • Matthew Hooton 2.5
      7 April 2013 at 4:34 pm

      No, I didn’t. I thought it was about 50%. Mike Williams said it was less than that. We settled on “substantial amount”. I would be interested in learning more about why Transpower now says it is zero. Sounds unlikely to me.

      • felix 2.5.1
        7 April 2013 at 4:48 pm

        It’s not that interesting.

        You’ll probably find that they don’t really factor your pronouncements into their calculations at all.

        Cite or retraction for “Transpower now says it is zero” please.

        • Colonial Viper 2.5.1.1
          7 April 2013 at 4:53 pm

          Didn’t you know? You can fully trick Mother Nature and the laws of physics with PR spin.

        • Matthew Hooton 2.5.1.2
          7 April 2013 at 5:03 pm

          Isn’t that what Strange was saying on Q&A? That they can get all the power to Auckland? I haven’t seen it yet.

          • felix 2.5.1.2.1
            7 April 2013 at 5:07 pm

            Ah, so you made it up.

            Well I never.

          • Matthew Hooton 2.5.1.2.2
            7 April 2013 at 5:08 pm

            Correction: it looks like it was The Nation. Didn’t see that either but did see this report: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/if-tiwai-point-smelter-shuts-no-problem-getting-power-auckland-ck-138278

            • Rhinocrates 2.5.1.2.2.1
              7 April 2013 at 5:17 pm

              Correction

              Translation: whoops, I got caught making shit up again… let’s see what Google can do for me…

              Doesn’t justify your claim Hoots. Just another one of your lies then, and maybe Strange’s too. Word of advice: when you’re paid to lie, do it well to give your clients their money’s worth, otherwise they might not come back.

            • felix 2.5.1.2.2.2
              7 April 2013 at 5:28 pm

              So you don’t have a cite then.

              Just admit it ffs. Or are you waiting for everyone to forget what you actually said?

            • Tim 2.5.1.2.2.3
              7 April 2013 at 8:55 pm

              so we can expect a retraction on next Monday’s “from the Right, and from the Right” can we?

              • Rhinocrates …
                7 April 2013 at 9:26 pm

                Oh, we’ll just see Hoots show what a money-grubbing coward he is… again. And Williams again will be sucking his dick, so he’ll be happy.

                It’s amazing that “Labour” want to appease this arsewipe instead of actually representing the people they were founded to represent.

                [lprent: you’re starting to walk over the edge between pointed abuse and pointless abuse. Read the policy. I can’t see anything in this comment explaining why the vitriol is required apart from a statement that is as meaningless as saying “of course everyone loves the queen” ]

        • Rhinocrates 2.5.1.3
          7 April 2013 at 5:07 pm

          You expect Hooton to actually justify something he says with real evidence? Never mistake his “reasonable” tone with actually being reasonable. The cockroach is going to scuttle under the fridge again when the light is turned on.

          Hi Hoots, got a good dead baby joke to tell?

  3. geoff 3
    7 April 2013 at 8:39 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/8518743/Three-big-hospitals-practices-under-fire

    I take this as evidence that Tony Ryall’s brownshirt tactics are starting to show their real effects.

    • tc 3.1
      7 April 2013 at 9:34 am

      Thin end of the wedge Geoff, he’s been at this for years and the impacts of his tactics can’t be hidden easily anymore.

      Plenty of pressure going on by Tony boy and his henchmen to spin harder…beware the quiet low key ones, Ryall, Findlayson, Joyce who appears to have slunk away again with Novopay still a shambles.

  4. Colonial Viper 4
    7 April 2013 at 8:40 am

    Unite and big fast food chains say no to Youth Rates

    This is impressive.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8516283/Thumbs-down-by-fast-food-chains-to-youth-rates

  5. marty mars 5
    7 April 2013 at 9:11 am

    ahh the right wingers usually such a dreary lot – this rant from Marie Krarup, a right wing Danish politician who just recently visited here. is so over the top it is funny, I put in one paragraph for ease and enjoyment of reading

    ” …dubbing the powhiri an “uncivilised” ritual, and marae a “grotesque” mark of multicultural worship.” “When we came to a naval base, we were not received with a handshake or salute by uniformed men as usual,” she wrote. “No, we were welcomed with a Maori dance ritual, with a half-naked man in grass skirt, shouting and screaming in Maori.” and she said the man performed “strange rituals and poked his tongue out.”She said she felt like an “idiot” when giving a hongi, When it was time to sing, Krarup said the waiata sounded like a Danish children’s song about a happy ladybird. She said it was accompanied by a “kindergarten-teacher-guitar-accompaniment”.The marae, or “Maori temple”, was a form of cultural self-destruction, according to Krarup.”It was decorated with God-figures with angry faces and large erect penises,” she said.”It’s a mystery to me how the poor naval officers could endure both the ceremony and the surroundings.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8517466/Danish-politician-slams-Maori-welcome

    http://mars2earth.blogspot.co.nz/2013/04/instead-of-handshake.html

    It is also useful to know that these extreme right wing funny thinking people are in many countries not just here.

    • Morrissey 5.1
      7 April 2013 at 9:45 am

      Mrs Krarup copied and pasted those words from an article by Neville Breivik Gibson or “Sir” Paul Holmes or “Dame” Susan Devoy.

    • joe90 5.2
      7 April 2013 at 10:19 am

      Marie Krarup + hate and look at what turns up as the first result.

      • Visubversaviper 5.2.1
        7 April 2013 at 11:03 am

        I want to know why this well funded NZ think tank is importing Danish cryptofacsists here. Havn’t we enough of our own?

        • Murray Olsen 5.2.1.1
          7 April 2013 at 3:00 pm

          Because our own right wingers don’t have an idea to share between them – they source everything from overseas. You can see this in the way they salivate about gun control and the right to bear arms, not even stopping to think that it’s neither an issue nor relevant here. They also suffer from such an inferiority complex that they need to be patted on the head regularly by the likes of Krarup and Monckton.

    • prism 5.3
      7 April 2013 at 9:31 pm

      Mrs Krarup is lucky that she’s not another Danish person receiving a fatwah – because NZs are too civilised to react to cultural slights like that.

      She’s had a great overseas experience though, observed everything with eyes wide open, like carvings with erect penises, amongst other new sights. That’s what going abroad is about isn’t it – to broaden the mind – though in some people it’s just the behind that feels the expansion.

  6. Morrissey 6
    7 April 2013 at 9:15 am

    Irritating Cliché Watch
    No. 1: “OPPORTUNITY”
    Insight, Radio New Zealand National, Sunday 7 April 2013
    Presented by Chris Bramwell

    Two and a half generations ago, speechwriter Arthur Schlesinger placed the following glib little homily into a speech he had prepared for John F. Kennedy: “The Chinese use two brush strokes to write the word ‘crisis.’ One brush stroke stands for danger; the other for opportunity. In a crisis, be aware of the danger–but recognize the opportunity.”

    Like so much else uttered by the Great Philanderer, this neat and trite little lesson was repeated and amplified for generations, and became a cliché taken up by school principals, business gurus, politicians and sports commentators—-rugby commentators especially. (I’ll write more on this last category in future.) If you hear someone using the word “opportunity” today—and you almost certainly will—he or she will almost certainly not be a critical or reflective or well read person, therefore he/she will be unaware of the provenance of the word, as well as being unaware of how utterly annoying it is.

    The indiscriminate use of the word has been bothering me for many years now; I think the time has come to start a campaign to get rid of this cliché from public discourse.

    Here’s a quick sample from this morning’s Insight programme, about New Zealand’s trading opportunities—sorry—in Latin America. By the way, note how the repeated use of the “opportunity” meme goes hand in hand with the repetition of official lies….

    JOHN KEY: Y’ow, Latin America is a place full of opportunities for New Zea’and. Y’ow…”

    MATTHEW O’MEAGHER: Well, let me clarify that not all countries are characterised as stable. I’m talking about the democratic ones. There are two blocs in Latin America. The stable ones have got on top of inflation. There is massive opportunity there….”

    This “two blocs” idea was also used by Nevil Breivik Gibson, when he appeared on “The Panel” last month. O’Meagher did not explain, but by “stable and democratic”, he means countries like Colombia, which are notorious for their human rights violations, and are in fact ruthlessly undemocratic. In other words, Professor O’Meagher was repeating official black propaganda.

    CHRIS BRAMWELL: Colombia has emerged from years of civil war, and is starting to open its doors to the world. President Santos says he’d like a free trade agreement with New Zealand.

    MATTHEW O’MEAGHER: When I heard Colombia wanted a free trade agreement I just wanted to air-fist it. Hey there are many opportunities for New Zealand!”

    NATHAN GUY: “There are many opportunities for New Zealand.”

    MATTHEW O’MEAGHER: People feel safe, …political security…

    MATTHEW O’MEAGHER: Under the military regime, Chile became open in their economy as we did. Pure. Completely different to across the Andes in Argentina, where they are just suspicious of free trade.

    GLEN TYRELL: We just saw a great opportunity and the people we work with saw an opportunity…

    NATHAN GUY: Opportunities to HELP these farmers with our Kiwi know-how and Kiwi knowledge is huge.

    ….ad nauseam, ad absurdum….

    Insight, Radio New Zealand National, presented by Chris Bramwell.
    The programme will be repeated night at 7:30 P.M.

    Almost every person who appeared on this programme used the word “opportunity” continually and promiscuously.

    It’s also ubiquitous in rugby commentaries. I will write more on that in future….

    • MaxwellS 6.1
      7 April 2013 at 5:47 pm

      The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
      Bertrand Russell

      • Morrissey 6.1.1
        7 April 2013 at 7:40 pm

        An apposite choice of quote, my friend. Well done.

      • Tim 6.1.2
        7 April 2013 at 9:08 pm

        Thanx! – I’ve been looking for an explanation for John Key, Paula Bennett, Hekia Parata and quite a few others that have concocted a gathering of minds and called it the National Party.

  8. marty mars 8
    7 April 2013 at 9:49 am

    I follow JMG and not just because he writes so well – his insights are really interesting. This one from the other day has been making me think a lot.

    …the opening up of a chasm between those who are willing to face the reality of our situation and those who flee from that reality into fantasy and self-deception.

    That chasm runs straight through the middle of the contemporary environmental movement, very much including the subset of that movement that concerns itself with climate change. It doesn’t run in the obvious place—say, between the techno-environmentalists who insist that everyone on the planet can have a lavish American middle class lifestyle powered by renewable energy, and the deep ecologists who see humanity as a gang of ecocidal apes yelling in triumph as they rush toward planetary dieoff. Both these extremes, and the entire spectrum of opinions between them, embrace the core presupposition that undergirds the conventional wisdom of our age.

    What is that presupposition? Total faith in the invincibility of technological progress.

    JMG really hones in on that and lays it all out expertly. The quote above is part of his argument which really has to be read in full so check it out, well worth it.

    In terms of his point about “Total faith in the invincibility of technological progress.” I agree and maybe that is why many continue to ignore the facts staring us in the face. It seems to be part of our western hubris and it’s not working very well.

    http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.nz/2013/03/the-illusion-of-invincibility.html

    • Colonial Viper 8.1
      7 April 2013 at 10:30 am

      Yep. Unshakeable belief in ongoing “growth” is just one aspect of this.

      In fact, I think a point was recently made (either by JMG or by a commentator) that modern civilisation has created it’s own pervasive Church that most people inadvertently worship at – with Progress as the Father (omnipotent and all present), Growth as the Son (and saviour), and Science/Technology as the Holy Spirit (bringing benefits to all that it touches).

      And the harder you question any one of these, the more likely you are to be singled out as a heretic or as ‘fringe’.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.2
      7 April 2013 at 11:49 am

      I think he’s wrong as far as technology goes. We may not be able to maintain the extravagant lifestyle we have now but we won’t be dropping back to grubbing in the dirt as he seems to think. Hell, it was the invention of farming that allowed us to start having surplus labour. Ok, so it also allowed the development of capitalism but that’s an unintended consequence that we can get rid of.

      Places like NZ will be able to maintain a technological and machine based manufactory. That’s going to mean computers, trains, tractors and schools. As I’ve said time and time again – we have the resources to do all this and we can do it all without oil. We just won’t be able to do as much as today as we won’t have the same amount of energy available but that’s a far cry from not being able to do it at all.

      • Colonial Weka 8.2.1
        7 April 2013 at 12:50 pm

        “Hell, it was the invention of farming that allowed us to start having surplus labour. Ok, so it also allowed the development of capitalism but that’s an unintended consequence that we can get rid of.”

        It also allowed us to start having mass warfare – if you aren’t settled you don’t have to defend resources in the same way, and the patriarchy.

        I’m not sure about the surplus labour bit. If you mean societal constructs that enabled humans to have to work much harder, then I guess that is true. But the evidence suggests that in general hunter gatherer peoples had/have a surplus of time, allowing for the development of culture. Why we would want to trade that for a capacity to work harder I am not sure. It probably seemed like a good idea at the time.

        Modern tech vs grubbing in the dirt is a false dichotomy. Without oil etc we still have our human knowledge and many technologies even where wind farms and electric trains are not possible. It’s also not true that people cannot live well without those things. Even with a full collapse, it would be several generations before we had no metal and plastics for instance, which is time to adapt. The big problem here is the human mind, and its inability to respond to the sheer scale of the problem we are facing.

        • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1.1
          7 April 2013 at 1:36 pm

          If you mean societal constructs that enabled humans to have to work much harder, then I guess that is true.

          It was capitalism that caused that. A few people started to take the wealth of the community as theirs and then to demand even more which meant more that everyone else had to work harder.

          But the evidence suggests that in general hunter gatherer peoples had/have a surplus of time, allowing for the development of culture.

          True but it doesn’t allow for the development of stable locations that can be used for serious research.

          Why we would want to trade that for a capacity to work harder I am not sure.

          Who said we traded it away? I’m sure it was more through dictatorship, violence and oppression.

          Modern tech vs grubbing in the dirt is a false dichotomy.

          True but I’ve been reading Greer for awhile and he really does believe that we’re all going to be busy grubbing down on the farm after the collapse. I think we can all work a hell of a lot less while maintaining a similar living standard and that the only reason why we have to work so hard is to keep the rich rich. As I’ve said before, the one thing that no society can afford is the rich.

          It’s also not true that people cannot live well without those things. Even with a full collapse, it would be several generations before we had no metal and plastics for instance, which is time to adapt.

          There won’t be a full collapse. That’s what I’m getting at. Especially in places like NZ where the infrastructure exists to maintain itself.

          The big problem here is the human mind, and its inability to respond to the sheer scale of the problem we are facing.

          That only applies if we keep working as individuals but if we work as a community then we can see the big picture.

          • Colonial Viper 8.2.1.1.1
            7 April 2013 at 3:10 pm

            True but I’ve been reading Greer for awhile and he really does believe that we’re all going to be busy grubbing down on the farm after the collapse.

            That says more about your own interpretation than what Greer has actually been saying. Nevertheless, once you take the fossil fuel energy inputs away from modern farming, a whole lot more human (and animal) labour will be required. That’s just the way it is.

            Further you have to remember that Greer is speaking from a largely US-centric perspective (and admits that). Yes you are correct in that NZ is better placed than most other countries to face the next 100 years. But Greer is not writing specifically for the NZ situation.

            • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1.1.1.1
              7 April 2013 at 4:11 pm

              That says more about your own interpretation than what Greer has actually been saying.

              No, it shows that Greer has a blanket generalisation about where civilisation is going and it’s all about industrialisation disappearing from the world. This is not going to happen.

              Nevertheless, once you take the fossil fuel energy inputs away from modern farming, a whole lot more human (and animal) labour will be required.

              Not necessarily. Sure, we can’t make electric cars with the same performance as today’s fuel powered ones but we could make electric tractors that will work just fine. Tractors, like trains, use the same routes all the time. Or we could make the farms (well, the ones that grow vegetables anyway) as fully automated buildings – no need for tractors then. Animal farms will probably still use a lot of muscle power – just as they do today.

              Further you have to remember that Greer is speaking from a largely US-centric perspective (and admits that).

              And as I’ve pointed out to him there’s a lot of renewable generation in the US as well and those locations will become centres of industrialisation. NZ is just be one place where industrialisation will continue.

              • Colonial Viper …
                7 April 2013 at 4:24 pm

                No, it shows that Greer has a blanket generalisation about where civilisation is going and it’s all about industrialisation disappearing from the world. This is not going to happen.

                Nah you’re wrong, and getting more wrong the deeper you dig.

                Didn’t you read the posts on NZ’s losses in manufacturing jobs year on year? If that’s not de-industrialisation, what is it?

                Have you seen the sites of old abandoned shipyards in the UK, the old abandoned car factories in Michigan?

                De-industrialisation is not a process which starts in the future mate.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  7 April 2013 at 9:53 pm

                  /facepalm

                  de-industrialisation is the removal of all industry. This is not going to happen. And from whatever base we end up with we’ll build up again. It’ll just build up to be more diverse than what we’ve ever had before but only making for what we use rather than the delusional export market.

                  If we had a government that actually was there for the people of this country and not just for the rich they’d be building that diversity now.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    7 April 2013 at 10:50 pm

                    de-industrialisation is the removal of all industry.

                    That’s how you’ve defined it. Greer has never defined it in that way.

                    De-industrialisation of the western world has been happening for decades. Haven’t you noticed?

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      8 April 2013 at 11:53 am

                      Greer has never defined it in that way.

                      Actually, he has, his Eco-Technic future happens after de-industrialisation. As I’ve said, I’ve been reading his words for a long time.

                      De-industrialisation of the western world has been happening for decades. Haven’t you noticed?

                      Of course I have. You may have noticed that I’ve proposed building our manufacturing capability back up?

                      The point that you don’t seem to grok is that we won’t lose the knowledge – it’s written down and we have the education systems to rebuild it – and even with the closing of factories our industrial base still far exceeds what was available in the 19th century. On top of that we’re not reliant upon hydrocarbons to power said manufacturing.

      • Colonial Viper 8.2.2
        7 April 2013 at 1:07 pm

        We just won’t be able to do as much as today as we won’t have the same amount of energy available but that’s a far cry from not being able to do it at all.

        Uh, you should read the Ecotechnic Future before you start making massively wrong assumptions as to what Greer reckons will be possible or not in the next couple of hundred years.

        Hell, it was the invention of farming that allowed us to start having surplus labour.

        Or was it the other way around.

  9. Morrissey 9
    7 April 2013 at 10:07 am

    PROPAGANDA WATCH
    Beware the British State broadcaster

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01rql0b/Newsnight_04_04_2013/

    Jeremy Paxman: “Kim Jong-un, a man with a more than passing resemblance to a haggis, after all”.

    Imagine such personalised comments about Cameron, Blair, Obama, Netanyahu or any other Western leader. From “spiritual heir to Stalin” to “crackpot regime”, this is what passes for balanced presentation and incisive journalism from the BBC’s flagship Newsnight.

    A skewed report from Robin Denselow, shaking the locked gates of the North Korean embassy, also has ex-US ambassador Nicholas Burns and the usual array of Western policy analysts warn of Pyongyang’s ‘imminent nuclear threat’, number its ‘international violations’ and probe the ‘problem of China’ in failing to bring this “unpredictable” regime to heel.

    Paxman’s package also has a placatory interview with a North Korean defector, a non-contested message from David Cameron, a Tory MP using the North Korean ‘threat’ to defend Trident and a token, moderate counterview from a Lib Dem MP.

    It’s not just the brazen bias, the unapologetic absence of balance, it’s the sheer embarrassment of ‘journalism’ from BBC icons like Paxman and Simpson.

    by John Hilley
    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1365154487.html

    • Populuxe1 9.1
      7 April 2013 at 3:32 pm

      And how does one report in a balanced way about the batshit insane clusterfuck that is North Korea? That’s like climate change denialists demanding balanced reportage on global warming – ie, you are a tinfoil hat wearing nutter who needs their meds checked. The BBC doesn’t have to make things up, NK’s own propoganda is readily available and would make me laugh hysterically if it wasn’t so frightening.

      • Morrissey 9.1.1
        7 April 2013 at 3:50 pm

        And how does one report in a balanced way about the batshit insane clusterfuck that is North Korea?

        The same way that one reports about the batshit insane clusterfuck that is Israel; sympathetically and dishonestly. I detest North Korea, but unlike you, I don’t feel compelled to demonstrate that by declaring my support for worse, more violent regimes.

        ….you are a tinfoil hat wearing nutter who needs their [sic] meds checked.

        There’s an intelligent and cutting insult. I am really, really wounded. Oh yes.

        The BBC doesn’t have to make things up…

        But it shamelessly recycles official lies, as we saw with its campaign against the Venezuelan “dictator” Hugo Chavez recently. After you review some of that coverage, have a look at some of the disgraceful stuff John Simpson has written to commemorate the tenth anniversary of the invasion of Iraq. Then come on here and say, with a straight face, that the BBC “doesn’t have to make things up.”

        NK’s own propoganda is readily available and would make me laugh hysterically if it wasn’t so frightening.

        As a dedicated recycler of state black propaganda yourself, you should cut the North Koreans a break, surely.

        • Populuxe1 9.1.1.1
          7 April 2013 at 4:21 pm

          As far as I know, Israel hasn’t threatened a nuclear superpower, starved it’s citizens for enough generations that they are approximately 2cm shorter than their southern counterparts, or in some areas resorting to cannibalism. It’s so bad China apparently has contingency plans to invade in an effort to prevent a refugee crisis should the regime collapse. You are basically asking for the equivalent of Holocaust denial… Oh wait, I forgot antisemitic propoganda was one of your favorite hobbies…

          • felix 9.1.1.1.1
            7 April 2013 at 5:24 pm

            Israel hasn’t starved its own citizens for generations, oh lordy no perish the thought.

            • Populuxe1 9.1.1.1.1.1
              7 April 2013 at 9:57 pm

              It is a point of significant difference. It is more possible to leave, and get information out of Gaza than NK. They are not comparable, though I am not condoning Israel.

              • felix …
                8 April 2013 at 7:58 am

                So what?

                My point is that if you really wanted to highlight significant differences between Israel and NK – and of course there are differences you sanctimonious patronising twat – the very last thing you would look to would be human rights abuses.

                ffs

          • Morrissey 9.1.1.1.2
            7 April 2013 at 7:37 pm

            As far as I know,

            As has been obvious every time you presume to comment, that’s not very far.

            Israel hasn’t threatened a nuclear superpower, starved it’s citizens for enough generations that they are approximately 2cm shorter than their southern counterparts, or in some areas resorting to cannibalism.

            Israel has systematically starved the imprisoned citizens of Gaza, and routinely cut off their water, for generations. The same criminal treatment is meted out in the Occupied Territories of the West Bank. Israeli officials recently laughed that they were “putting the Palestinians on a diet.” Not that you’d care about those facts, of course, even if you were not ignorant.

            You are basically asking for the equivalent of Holocaust denial…

            You know, if it hadn’t already been firmly established that you were a witless and desperate fellow, I might be offended by such nutty logorrhea.

            Oh wait, I forgot antisemitic propoganda was one of your favorite hobbies…

            Oh this is pr-r-r-r-r-riceless! In spite of everything, my sad friend, we have to hand it to you: there aren’t many people who, in the midst of a blitheringly incompetent, embarrassingly foolish attempt to swim out of their depth, actually come up with an entirely new rhetorical combat tool—the falsum ad self-discreditum. On behalf of every other Standardista, I congratulate you.

            • Populuxe1 9.1.1.1.2.1
              7 April 2013 at 9:50 pm

              Oh you silly little man – I’ve never tried to implicate award winning comedians in a Zionist conspiracy. You are quite mad, such fun.
              Gaza, while horribly brutalised by the Likudniks, is not actually part of Israel. Are you geographically challenged? No, just a fucking nut job.

              • felix …
                8 April 2013 at 8:00 am

                “Gaza, while horribly brutalised by the Likudniks, is not actually part of Israel.”

                Yeah, ‘cos that’s the important bit about human rights abuses.

              • Professor Longhair …
                8 April 2013 at 10:45 am

                You are out of your depth, Populuxe. Have you ever heard of the concept of “face-saving withdrawal”?

  11. freedom 11
    7 April 2013 at 10:42 am

    IMF apparently likes where NZ is headed,

    we must be in even greater trouble than we thought 🙂

  12. muzza 12
    7 April 2013 at 10:46 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10875936

    “All I can tell you is the IMF is very supportive of what is being done by the Government in that respect.

    IMF managing director Christine Lagarde was full of praise last night for the direction in which the New Zealand economy was headed.

    After meeting Prime Minister John Key on the fringes of the Bo’ao Forum for Asia, in China, she talked to New Zealand reporters about the general health of the economy in light of a recent assessment of fiscal and monetary policy

    Of course the IMF would be supportive, they peddle corruption, theft, death, all under the guise of austerity.

    Lagarde is a sock puppet, executing the orders!

  13. kenny 13
    7 April 2013 at 10:49 am

    Just watched the worst display of television interviewing I can remember. Susan Woods was so biased and bad mannered on Q&A this morning that I had to switch channels, it was that bad.

    I thought Duncan Garner and Paul Holmes were bad but this effort took the cake.

    • Morrissey 13.1
      7 April 2013 at 10:55 am

      It’s Susan Wood, not Woods. Show the vacuous bimbo some respect by getting her name right, please.

      • Tim 13.1.1
        7 April 2013 at 9:21 pm

        Yep ….. why she (i.e. her – the vacuous bimbo) even managed to provide ‘evidence’ of why investigative journalism is “alive and well” (NOT). Give her some slack though Morrissey – she’s probably still grieving over the loss of NZ’s journalistic foreskin in the Hawkes Bay

    • Chris 13.2
      7 April 2013 at 1:27 pm

      Lordy! I was coming on to say just that.Caught a bit of q&a online.Is she for real?If I was Shearer I would have just got up and walked out.Question and answer it wasn’t.Sack her,she’s useless.Another harpy shrieking for key.

    • Paul 13.3
      7 April 2013 at 1:54 pm

      Who do we write to to express our concern at the clear bias exhibited in this interview? I am not Labour and I worry for the future of New Zealand democracy if the media so clearly takes sides in a debate. That was not fair or balanced, especially when you compare it with the way Rawdon Christie and others interview the PM. And for some reason he complains about the press; in case he hasn’t noticed, the vast majority of the media supports him whole-heartedly.

      Does anyone know of any reasons why Susan Wood is biased? Does she do work for Sky City or any other large corporate? Does she have an agenda? Or is she a puppet who does what her masters tell her to say?

      • Arfamo 13.3.1
        7 April 2013 at 2:24 pm

        To be fair I just watched the following segment and she was just as bad interrupting Nikki Kaye about the food labelling legislation. Wood interviews like someone on amphetamines.

      • Murray Olsen 13.3.2
        7 April 2013 at 3:08 pm

        I think Susan Wood just has a preference for authoritarian bullies. She married a guy who’d been a prefect when I was at boarding school and he was an absolute shocker. He challenged a friend of mine (half his size) to a fight. When the guy refused, he was expelled for not obeying a prefect’s orders. I can easily see how she’d feel a deep and unrequited love for Key.

        • Morrissey 13.3.2.1
          7 April 2013 at 3:58 pm

          She married a guy who’d been a prefect when I was at boarding school and he was an absolute shocker.

          Did she marry that guy before or after her mortifyingly gauche live on-air flirtation with Michael Flatley?

          • Murray Olsen 13.3.2.1.1
            7 April 2013 at 9:38 pm

            As far as I can remember, she married him sometime around 1990. (Google suggests 1989) I have no idea when the Flatley thing was, because I’ve spent a fair bit of time overseas.

        • Elizabeth Bourchier 13.3.2.2
          8 April 2013 at 7:22 am

          This is none of our business.
          Such intrusive, meaningless and ugly commentary is not acceptable on The Standard.
          Keep such garbage to yourself.

          • Professor Longhair 13.3.2.2.1
            8 April 2013 at 10:52 am

            Such “ugly” commentary would indeed be unacceptable if it was directed at a decent, hard-working, honest journalist.

            However, Mr Olsen’s target was one Susan Wood, who is none of the above. Maybe you are unfamiliar with the vileness of Ms. Wood’s oeuvre.

          • Murray Olsen 13.3.2.2.2
            8 April 2013 at 11:58 am

            Someone asked why Susan Wood would be so biased. I gave an opinion, based on some facts.
            I always find it funny how it’s perfectly OK to say that right wingers in general are nasty, dumb, and lacking in empathy, with studies which supposedly show this, but not acceptable to say anything about any of them individually.

    • BM 15.1
      7 April 2013 at 11:22 am

      You may find this interesting.
      http://www.flightradar24.com/

    • muzza 15.2
      7 April 2013 at 11:26 am

      Where is the rest of the context Joe?

      Edit: Such as;

      Flight altitudes, headings etc, air pressure, temp, humidity readings etc…

      You can’t even tell if thats San Fran or not!

      • joe90 15.2.1
        7 April 2013 at 12:58 pm

        His tweet is time stamped so work it out.

        http://www.isstracker.com/historical

        • muzza 15.2.1.1
          7 April 2013 at 1:39 pm

          How about you come up with a picture with some geographic underlay, e.g can see the airport location, and be able to identify a directional header, thus being able to make some sense of the multitude of angles those trails are on…

          Put it this way Joe, SFO is on the coast, which means the flight traffic and flight paths are not as prolific, as those trails appear to be!

          You posted the link, was it purely for show, or was your intent something else?

          • McFlock 15.2.1.1.1
            7 April 2013 at 4:09 pm

            Joe was just showing how many people are in on the conspiracy. Did he contaminate your social experiment muzz ?

            • muzza 15.2.1.1.1.1
              7 April 2013 at 6:41 pm

              Was he really, I’ll wait until Joe confirms his intent if its all the same to you…waiting Joe

              And the geographic locational context Joe, so we can have a discussion about why that link is one of your worst yet!

              • McFlock …
                7 April 2013 at 7:27 pm

                You’re just the tinfoil hat that keeps on giving…

                • muzza …
                  8 April 2013 at 8:51 am

                  It makes no difference what you, or I actually think McFlock, its going on either way regardless.

                  The immature jibes are becoming a feature for you now hey!

                  http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/4825779/Aircraft-contrails-stoke-warming-cloud-formation

                  Have a read of this nonsense explanation seeking to justify the awful state of the skies we see nowadays, as *exapanded contrail vapour*, widening/forming into clouds..

                  Interesting that contrails did not use to do anything such thing, now all of a sudden, they do, and there is a laughable attempt to explain this *new phenomenon*

                  Fascinating how contrails, have become necessary to explain away, with details of the *new behavior* – No one gave a thought to them previously (other than plane spotters etc), now they’re making cloud formations, and lingering in the sky, while simultaneously warming the air below them, and reflecting the sun above, thats incredible, just how do those ice crystals survive for extended periods of time while being wedged between warmer air temps, and the sun!

                  Amazing how a real contrail, (yes they still exist) does no such thing as described in the article, nor form into any such entity which resembles the picture associated with the article.

                  • McFlock …
                    8 April 2013 at 1:01 pm

                    lol

                    What “new behaviour”, you muppet?
                    Oh, and take a look at the temp display (or harass the aircrew for information again) for the outside air temp the next time you are in a jet. That might explain your question about the ice crystals.

                    And are you arguing that your hypothesised chemtrails are increasing climate change? A literally global conspiracy to increase sea levels and desrtification? Cui Bono?

                    • muzza …
                      8 April 2013 at 7:58 pm

                      Don’t know much about contrails do you, as if you did you would know what, *new behavior * referred to!

                      The hypothesizing was over long ago McFlock, by people much higher up the org chart than myself,. and I wish as much as you deny, that this was not happening, it is, and its got nowhere to go but come out, it already has, deep down you know it!

                      Its why there are so many documentaries, articles etc in the MSM (inc the BS I linked to above) talking about geo-engineering, global dimming and so on, and its ramped up in conjunction with global awareness of the programme to dump chemical substances and all manor of other crap, with who knows what consequences, into the planets life support system.

                      Perhaps the damage done to our atmospheric layers, stratosphere, ionosphere (mostly in the name of science), by nuclear detonations, into/through those layers, on the ground, nuclear reactor meltdowns, space programmes, ge-engineering programmes, and god knows what else, has caused so much damage, the only available option being considered, is to spray even more shit up there, and do it faster, and more frequently.

                      Again today from my building, high up in central AKL – heading south to north, over west akl, a nice long trail was laid, about 945. This dump was followed by another plane, flying the same heading, (non commercial flight path) only slighly higher, without leaving a trail. Neither plane was at an altitude which would have cool enough air temp to leave a vapour trail, so perhaps you can tell me what it created it at the lower altitude!

                      I know you want to be able to blow it off, along with those such as myself who understand these things are going on, and accept it (because WTF can we currently do anyway), it makes you hope you’re not going to proven wrong by people you would expect to be, *below you*, but that’s something you need to get over son, because its happening, that flight has departed, and its hosing down all over you, denial or not!

                      So YES, it could very well be a major contributer to CC, thats what geo-engineering is all about, weather modification/altering, or changing the climate!

                    • McFlock …
                      8 April 2013 at 9:59 pm

                      Lol
                      “Higher up the org chart”?

                      Project Onan has an organsational hierarchy? And you’re not at the top of it ?
                      WHO DO YOU TAKE YOUR ORDERS FROM???
                      It’s the tibetans at the centre of the earth, isn’t it???

                    • muzza …
                      9 April 2013 at 8:37 am

                      You managed to pick out the *org chart* reference, which was a tongue in cheek comment, well done.

                      Other than that you’re struggling McFlock, and I guess J90 has lost himself somewhere on the internet looking to make those trails in the link he posted make some sense.
                      SFO is located on the coast, so thats not going to be particularly easy for him, and I suspect thats also why he has not explained his intent behind the posting the photo.

                      Meantime, have a read of this….. Nuclear industry American style!

                      http://www.nbcnews.com/id/43556350/

                    • McFlock …
                      9 April 2013 at 12:51 pm

                      lol – the economic viability of fission stations is relevant to contrails how?

                      You’re a joke.
                      I figured maybe you’d think that vapour trails were a function of pressure, temperature and humidity, but you obviously think a column of air is identical all the way up. I guess in akl you don’t see many inversion layers.

                      So really, all there is left is to laugh at you.

                  • felix …
                    9 April 2013 at 9:06 am

                    “Project Onan has an organsational hierarchy? And you’re not at the top of it ?”

                    muzza’s role is primarily a research one.

                    btw, I saw some amazing chem/con trails over Taranaki on the weekend. What’s the most popular theory about the reason for spraying chemtrails over sparsely populated provincial areas?

  16. Just Julie 16
    7 April 2013 at 11:03 am

    Kenny is correct. Her aim was to rattle and disrupt Mr Shearer; so of course she could then complain he failed to clarify his aims. A touch difficult when you are continually interrupted I would have thought. To his credit Mr Shearer failed to take the bait.

    • Populuxe1 16.1
      7 April 2013 at 12:23 pm

      Don’t be ridiculous – its standard technique to get pollies to let things slip. Cap’n Mumblefuck is quite capable of being a gibbering incompetent all on his lonesome.

      • Chris 16.1.1
        7 April 2013 at 1:31 pm

        You can’t let things slip when you are not allowed to speak.The last time I saw that done was on q&a by guyon espiner who did the same number on Phil Goff.I remember even Paul Holmes being stunned. wood/woods was avsolutely incoherent with rage when Shearer wouldn’t reveal his bank balance.I thought he did bruddy well not to punch her.

        • Arfamo 16.1.1.1
          7 April 2013 at 1:51 pm

          Jesus, she was shockingly bad. I think that is the worst, rudest and most partisan tv interview by an NZ interviewer I’ve seen. Wood should be working for Fox News. Shearer didn’t even get time to finish most sentences, and he wasn’t rambling for a change. He did surprisingly well IMO – especially never losing his cool. The two or three times he held up his hand and told her to let him answer, she did. He should be prepared to do more of that more often. In fact if he had just stopped, and said, “are you going to let me answer your questions, because if you’re not, why invite me here?”, he’d have won even more points with the viewer.

          • Chris 16.1.1.1.1
            7 April 2013 at 2:31 pm

            Agreed.Just watched rest.She said key “fessed up”FESSED UP! Do they read the same Boy’s Own Annuals or what.She also compounded key’s lie by saying he had checked back and “fessed up” to ringing Fletcher.She should check her facts because at last count he remembered at least three different scenario to Fletcher was shoulder tapped,all contradictory.Which one is true.It was a truly abominable,unprofessional,biased interview,if indeed it could be classed as an interview. Maybe Shearer should have asked her why she can’t keep a husband.

            • MaxwellS 16.1.1.1.1.1
              7 April 2013 at 6:26 pm

              Just watched.
              Susan Wood = psycho. She couldn’t hold back her sneering look at Helen Kelly and she was clearly relishing the bullying moments when all of them were having a go at Helen.
              Wood was completely unaware of how repugnant her demeanour and behaviour were. Is that what radio live does to a person or does it just attract people like that?

  17. Colonial Viper 17
    7 April 2013 at 11:34 am

    Remember the pivotal wikileaks video showing an Apache attack on Iraqi civilians and journalists

    This PTSD destroyed former infantry man attended the scene afterwards.

  18. Boadicea 18
    7 April 2013 at 1:21 pm

    Why now?
    Why did Grant Robertson use the Ian Fletcher GCSB story now?

    The story was being held in the armoury for use at the optimal politically effective moment.

    Why now? Was it prematurely taken out of the arsenal and fired to distract attention from Shearer’s “brain fade” on the undeclared stash in the US Bank?

    • Tigger 18.1
      7 April 2013 at 2:10 pm

      Yes. Next question?

    • Treetop 18.2
      7 April 2013 at 2:34 pm

      Shearer’s UN bank account is now declared.

      Shearer mentioned the signing of a ministerial certificate, I would have liked Wood to have asked Shearer if this would be one of the terms of reference were there to be an open inquiry into the GCSB.

      “Its now come out that the order to “supress” the information about GCSB’s activities, signed by the acting prime minister Bill English (normally the finance minister) while Key was abroad, was the only such document in 10 years:”

      http://www.techdirt.com/blog?tag=gcsb

      It is my opinion that everything to do with Fletcher and Key and the illegal spying of Dotcom is being carefully orchestrated.

      Key is the type of person who does not like open inquiries which can be confrontational especially when his integrity is being questioned. Were there to be an inquiry into Shearer not declaring his UN bank account nothing new would be learnt except for how many times the account was accessed; Shearer knew he did not declare it and rectified this and the public will either condemn him or overlook this.

      Week after week the GCSB are in the news and Key is the minister in charge due to the classified issues which the GCSB operate under and this reflects on Key when it comes to the GCSB crossing the line or the minister in charge crossing the line.

  19. Tim 19
    7 April 2013 at 1:41 pm

    Just as an aside:
    “Duplicate comment detected; it looks as though you’ve already said that!” is usually/often an indication of the inadequacies in available badwidth [sic] and the manipulation of it by your nearest ISP.

  20. aerobubble 20
    7 April 2013 at 1:57 pm

    Solution to welfare problem found. Hyundai Country last night had a family – of 11 kids – who had never needed welfare. Albeit they are young and may not of told their parents. But even so, imagine
    a family of 11 kids in S.Auckland, Bennett has nightmares about them being caught in welfare.

    So it got me wondering, why not just dump large families in rural areas and let them figure it out.
    Okay, the run off might actually wipe out mussel farms, but the family in the show thinks its a
    worthy cause to not need welfare, so they are eager to share the load and take the burden off S.Auckland, right.

    Bennett should get off her behind, on her bike, down to the sounds and start building some council estates or something, I mean look at the place, fish, hunting, growing vegies and the local WINZ is
    a days travel too, no wonder nobody needs welfare (or could get it if they tried).

    If only we had more families like this, who had their own business, cheap labour, and subsidies of feral fish and meat, its got to be a winner for NZ, no welfare yippy.

    • aerobubble 20.1
      7 April 2013 at 2:04 pm

      Maybe the rural types, living the dream, should not be so eager to bring to the attention of city dwellers how their kids haven’t needed welfare.

      TVNZ should also be wary, imagine filming a women who tells their viewers, they are boring people sitting watching the show. Does she want them to be out over the Cook strait fouling the water ways, and pushing another family into welfare when their mussel farm becomes contaminated?
      As mussel farms else have when developers are given a heads up.

    • Tigger 20.2
      7 April 2013 at 2:13 pm

      Let’s film it as well and provide cheap entertainment to the masses. Most of our broadcasters would wet their pants at a ratings winner like that.

  21. Tim 21
    7 April 2013 at 2:10 pm

    “So it got me wondering, why not just dump large families in rural areas and let them figure it out”

    Maaaaaaaaate! They’re already doing that. The indigent are being force further and further ‘out’ by agencies of Neshnool Pardy State.

    So far (in the southern North Izland) PerraPerraooomoo. Woikanoi is under threat. Fear not though, there’s a National MP at the ready to enusre they don’t threaten propitty vear uuuu’s. A guy called Nathan (Nafe to his maaaates). Pure and pristine

  22. Colonial Viper 22
    7 April 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Labour UK: Party considers building stronger incentives to work into welfare system

    Radical moves planned to make sure that people who put more into the system, get more back in benefits.

    Happy happy joy joy.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/06/labour-plans-shift-welfare-payouts

    • Olwyn 22.1
      7 April 2013 at 4:41 pm

      I noted that the “return to full employment” is primarily expressed by saying that no one will be allowed on the dole for more than two years, though he did add that they would be moved into “real jobs with real training.” However, the second part did come across as an afterthought rather than an expression of resolve. But if you look at the string of comments underneath, they are no happier with their lot than we are with ours. As real economies shrink, going into politics seems to mean having a cool job rather than having a chance to change things.

    • joe90 22.2
      7 April 2013 at 5:27 pm

      Cait Reilly succeeded in challenging the programme which required her to work unpaid so a retroactive bill was passed to avoid benefit repayments and Labour whipped their MP’s into abstaining from voting.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/feb/12/poundland-ruling-government-work-schemes

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/mar/24/labour-mps-abstain-welfare-bill

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/15/dwp-law-change-jobseekers-poundland?

    • johnm 22.3
      7 April 2013 at 6:07 pm

      Hi CV
      USK Government Declares War on Disabled People and the Poor

      http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/government-declares-war-on-disabled-people-and-the-poor/

      “Minister for Murdering Disabled People ( Via HIT agency ATOS) Esther Mcvey began the assault with a vile piece of propaganda in the Daily Mail on Saturday. Mcvey claims that many people who are “officially classed ‘disabled’ are no such thing”. Her nasty diatribe comes in advance of the changes to disability benefits which will see around a fifth of disabled people lose vital support.”

      ” Is it any wonder we are in such a mess whilst chinless gimps like Cameron, Osborne, Clegg and Mcvey run the country like a bunch of posh teenagers who have never understood what it is to stand on your own two feet?”

      “And finally Iain Duncan Smith himself appeared in The Daily Telegraph with the ludicrous claim that he could live quite easily on just £53 a week. But then that’s because he sponges off his wife’s parents – living the high life in an inherited ancestral mansion whilst tax payers fund his lavish expenses. At least Esther Mcvey scrounges off her own parent.”

      “Millions stare destitution in the face this month with ruthless and reckless cuts set to throw lives into chaos. Many claimants will be left with nothing at all to buy food after paying their bedroom tax, council tax benefits, water rates and other utility bills. Homelessness is already rising and about to soar as a direct result of this Government’s policies. With unemployment also back on the rise, particularly amongst the young, parts of the country may be unrecognisible in just a few month’s time as poverty not seen in decades returns to haunt the UK.

      Not content with that however, this toff Government want to add insult to injury by slandering and abusing the victims of their policies in the national press.”

  23. Dv 23
    7 April 2013 at 4:03 pm

    Here is an interesting tool
    The BlaBlameter
    HT Homepaddock
    http://www.blablameter.com/index.php
    BlaBlaMeter –

    how much bullshit hides in your text?
    PR-Experts, politicians, ad writers or scientists need to be strong here!
    BlaBlaMeter unmasks without mercy how much bullshit hides in any text.

    I put in a speech by Paraata

    This was the result.
    Your text: 15000 characters, 2640 words
    Bullshit Index :0.33
    Your text shows indications of ‘bullshit’-English. It’s still ok for PR or advertising purposes, but more critical audiences may be skeptical.

    This is the result from Luther King
    I have a dream
    our text: 9317 characters, 1724 words
    Bullshit Index :0.08
    Your text shows no or marginal indications of ‘bullshit’-English.

    • Draco T Bastard 23.1
      7 April 2013 at 4:19 pm

      At a guess, I’d say that the test itself is BS.

    • ianmac 23.2
      7 April 2013 at 4:31 pm

      Interesting Blabla meter DV. Tried putting bits from National Party website as well as various bloggers. The worst was from Nat website but none seriously in blabla trouble.

  24. prism 24
    7 April 2013 at 5:07 pm

    200 partygoers creating havoc. They have enough money to get themselves high so let them pay to get themselves out of prison. Lock ’em up after turning a high pressure fire hose on them. We have bred a bolder and undisciplined group of careless sh..ts and the controls on boozing hours are too lax. A tweak to bring balance is needed.

    • Anne 24.1
      7 April 2013 at 5:26 pm

      The majority of NZ citizens predicted this scenario would develop at the time the drinking age was lowered and the rules around drinking hours were relaxed too far. The politicians (nearly all of them) know damm well they were wrong but they won’t admit it. Political considerations transcend all else.

    • halfcrown 24.2
      7 April 2013 at 6:37 pm

      “A tweak to bring balance is needed.”

      You can’t do that, think of the damage it would do to the breweries bottom line.

      • prism 24.2.1
        7 April 2013 at 9:45 pm

        Yes halfcrown – I have been told off for saying what I think about liquor barons.

        Them and their weasly lobby group the Hospitality? whatever. Why would we think they would say anything effective to prevent binge drinking like shorter hours, and whether it would ever happen is a moot point. What we are left with is hospital. And we are a sick society with so much alcohol dependence and living for parties.

    • Chris 24.3
      8 April 2013 at 7:21 am

      Not only that.Anyone who has to take up precious A&E time at hospitals or even further medical attention should be paid for by themselves and they should not be eligible for ACC for any injuries while under the influence of alcohol.

  25. Arfamo 25
    7 April 2013 at 5:11 pm

    They’re only modelling parliamentary behaviour at street level.

  26. joe90 26
    7 April 2013 at 5:30 pm

    My new favourite word is mincome.

    http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/4100

    Beginning in 1974, Pierre Trudeau’s Liberals and Manitoba’s first elected New Democratic Party government gave money to every person and family in Dauphin who fell below the poverty line. Under the program—called “Mincome”—about 1,000 families received monthly cheques.

    Unlike welfare, which only certain individuals qualified for, the guaranteed minimum income project was open to everyone. It was the first—and to this day, only—time that Canada has ever experimented with such an open-door social assistance program.

  27. ghostrider888 27
    7 April 2013 at 6:06 pm

    Key on 3: “we could be at war with North Korea” (allies).
    Meanwhile, economically, China does “the telling”.

  29. Steve (North Shore) 29
    7 April 2013 at 6:55 pm

    I came to this blog today for a look after being banned.
    I could be a troll and wind you up, but this place is scary, there are so many here who are bitter.
    It seems you are on attack all of the time – when do you have fun?
    I will look again but this is not a blog that happy people like. Smile and the World ….

    • McFlock 29.1
      7 April 2013 at 7:32 pm

      … continues doing the same old thing.

      Have fun with your fluffy kitten blogs.

    • Paul 29.2
      7 April 2013 at 7:43 pm

      Have you ever considered that just maybe there are quite a lot of people with a reason not to be happy and jolly all the time?
      To question the status quo does not equal being bitter.
      You yourself admit to being a troll.
      Enough said.

    • Northshoreguynz 29.3
      7 April 2013 at 8:06 pm

      Obviously haven’t had a look at the dark side then.

    • Blue 29.4
      7 April 2013 at 8:32 pm

      Have to agree. Not a lot of humour in a leftie. Just resentment and blame. Although a lot of folk on this blog are funny, but I don’t think it’s intentional.

      • Arfamo 29.4.1
        7 April 2013 at 8:54 pm

        Aww .. I dunno. Maybe you’re just not in tune with some of the humour. A lot things the Nats say and do make them laugh. Not a lot to laugh about for some whose jobs have disappeared and who’re worried about how to meet their commitments and needs under this government, especially with the unparalleled debt it’s got us into. Not as easy for some of these people to switch lucrative careers perhaps as it was for you. Not because they’re a bunch of lazy slackers either. Can you see things from their perspective at all, out of interest?

  30. johnm 30
    7 April 2013 at 8:10 pm

    A U$K website showing the death toll of the war on the poor instigated by the Tory scum:

    http://calumslist.org/

    “Calums List | This Welfare Reform Death Toll Has To Stop”

    “VERY IMPORTANT

    If you are one of the people affected by the Welfare Reforms to such an extent that you are feeling suicidal, PLEASE contact one of the following:- Samaritans UK: 08457 90 90 90 NHS UK: 08454 24 24 24 Breathing Space UK: 0800 83 85 87 Republic of Ireland: 1850 60 90 90. Or use the SEVEN DAY RULE. Whatever you are feeling now, the old saying that suicide is permanent holds true. PLEASE make a contract with yourself. Do nothing precipitous for SEVEN days. Many, many people have found that whatever psychological anguish occurs in the darkest depths of despair, just weathering the storm and holding off for seven days is sufficient to come through and recover enough not to go that way.”

    John Yankee is intending the same for us here in N$Z 🙁

    “Sick? Who gives Atos?”
    http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations/2011/02/sick-who-gives-atos.html

    • johnm 30.1
      7 April 2013 at 8:49 pm

      ” Atos benefits bullies killed my sick dad, says devastated Kieran, 13
      1 Nov 2012 08:34

      THE devastated youngster believes the benefits assessors’ decision to deem his dad “fit for work” led to his death from a heart attack.”

      Atos benefits bullies killed my sick dad, says devastated Kieran, 13
      1 Nov 2012 08:34

      THE devastated youngster believes the benefits assessors’ decision to deem his dad “fit for work” led to his death from a heart attack.

      A GRIEVING boy of 13 has accused Atos of killing his disabled dad.

      Kieran McArdle told the Daily Record in a harrowing letter how his father Brian, 57, collapsed and died the day after his disability benefits were stopped. He had been assessed by Atos and deemed “fit for work”.

      The youngster said a previous stroke on Boxing Day last year had caused a blood clot on Brian’s brain.

      He was left paralysed down his left side, unable to speak properly, blind in one eye and barely able to eat or dress.

      But he was still summoned to an Atos “work capability assessment” – part of the Con-Dem Government’s drive to cut billions from the welfare bill.

      Kieran says he had another stroke days before his appointment because of stress, but was still determined to attend.

      A month later, former security guard Brian got a letter telling him he would lose his disability benefits on September 26.

      Kieran said his dad’s health went rapidly downhill. He believes constant worry about how he would survive without the cash he needed robbed Brian of the will to live.

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/atos-killed-my-dad-says-boy-1411100

      Yankee John intends the same here for our disabled. 🙁

    • xtasy 30.2
      8 April 2013 at 12:00 am

      johnm

      There are already 0800 helplines for mentally ill, suicidal, addicted and other people in crisis in NZ.

      So by merely handing out phone numbers to ring, will this actually stop anyone from harming themselves if they are really desperate and suicidal? It may in some cases, but if a person is really desperate, they will not bother ringing a stranger late at night – or whenever, thinking that person will really make a difference in an acute crisis, brought on through unsympathetic welfare agencies, who would not give a damn about a client’s well-being unther the new system to be phased in.

      If DWP in the UK or WINZ in NZ treat clients as crims, suspects of cheating and bludgers, while they are supposed to “assist” and “support” people in need, who the hell would any client or beneficiary have trust in?

      Only welfare advocates may make a difference, but such agencies staffed by them are being closed one after another, because MSD cut their funding (see BIAS in Auckland)!

    • Murray Olsen 31.1
      7 April 2013 at 10:35 pm

      I’m sure the WhaleSpew Army would all volunteer. Key would no doubt send his sons if it weren’t for an important baseball game in the US and A.
      Hopefully this sort of garbage will wake a few more people up to what an abject idiot the guy is. It’ll also be interesting to see Labour’s position on this stupid announcement.

    • xtasy 31.2
      7 April 2013 at 11:49 pm

      Yep, North Korea will be defeated with all the military might of staunch Kiwi soldiers. The South Koreans really need their loyal NZ friends if attacked. Re-deployment from Bamyan is on the agenda now, straight to the border between North and South Korea. That is what I expect to come from Key’s mouth tomorrow, after what he said to NZ TV media today.

      I could not believe it either, that is the shit that NZ media report, and fall for, and nobody dares to ask, is this the newest distraction attempt, to divert away from questions about Fletcher’s selection for leading the GCSB??? Kiwi media, between at times amusing, at other times to be pitied, and furthermore to be truly pathetic.

      • chris73 31.2.1
        8 April 2013 at 12:05 am

        Well lets see what units would be of use…SAS seem to do quite well, medics are always useful, engineers are respected

        Of course recent war experience would be gulf war one and two and afghanistan amongst the most well known conflicts

        It also helps that our troops train with other countries that are likely to be involved which makes things easier for integration

        No ones suggesting we have the man power to match other countries but equally we have resources that are useful in battles

        Do what you can with what you have

  32. chris73 32
    7 April 2013 at 11:43 pm

    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/John-Key-defiant-Ian-Fletchers-GCSB-hiring-appropriate/tabid/506/articleID/34521/Default.aspx

    – JT confirms Ferguson was Helen Clarks man (as I stated before and was asked for proof) and quite frankly Key sounds better on this topic then Robertson does…

    • xtasy 32.1
      7 April 2013 at 11:53 pm

      Radio Live soundings have been clearly to the right of the political spectrum for years, and what, apart from some comment that Ferguson was perhaps appointed to lead GCSB under the last Labour government, do you have to prove he was selected in a manner Fletcher was contacted and suggested by Key???

      • chris73 32.1.1
        8 April 2013 at 12:10 am

        Yes Willie Jackson that well known tory was also questioning John Key

        JT who was in cabinet says yes Ferguson was Helen Clarks man and was shoulder tapped (which he says during the interview) then thats pretty good evidence right there

        (except it doesn’t fit in with narrative Labour wants to put out so of course it will be disbelieved, chocolate fish to the first person who asks for “proof”…)

        • Pascal's bookie 32.1.1.1
          8 April 2013 at 6:00 am

          “yes Ferguson was Helen Clarks man”

          Give us the actual quote on that.

          • chris73 32.1.1.1.1
            8 April 2013 at 7:18 am

            Its there in the audio clip, JT confirms (and Willie Jackson agrees)

            • felix 32.1.1.1.1.1
              8 April 2013 at 7:24 am

              Can you tell us the actual words as said rather than your interpretation please?

              • chris73 …
                8 April 2013 at 7:29 am

                I’m not going to transcribe the words when the audio clip is there to listen to.

                • felix …
                  8 April 2013 at 7:35 am

                  Ok I’ll do it for you. But seeing as you’re the one claiming it says xyz, you really should do this yourself.

                  Seeing as it’s half an hour of audio, would you be kind enough to point me to the relevant part?

                  • felix …
                    8 April 2013 at 7:53 am

                    Ok chris I’ve listened to the entire segment of the interview that relates to the Key scandal, and I haven’t heard anything about Helen Clark’s man.

                    Unless you can provide the quote, I’m calling bullshit.

                  • chris73 …
                    8 April 2013 at 7:57 am

                    Well once again I have to apologize for getting it wrong (again) I put two and two together and got 5

                    In other words I was wrong so you don’t need to listen to the audio clip, all it mentions is Helen Clark shoulder tapping but not Ferguson especially

                    So I’m wrong again and I apologize

                    • felix …
                      8 April 2013 at 8:03 am

                      Probably be better if you apologised for making it up.

                      Where did you get “Helen Clark’s man” from? Whaleoil?

                      Does the interview even mention Helen Clark? Or just “other PMs”?

                      Do you understand now why people ask for quotes when you make these claims, and would you be able to be a bit less of a cock about it next time?

        • scotty 32.1.1.2
          8 April 2013 at 6:10 am

          Chris73 says ,
          ‘JT who was in cabinet says yes Ferguson was Helen Clarks man and was shoulder tapped (which he says during the interview) then thats pretty good evidence right there’

          But unlike John Key
          Didnt lie about her involvement in parliament,when questioned .
          Didn’t lie to journalists when given the 3rd or 4th chance to come clean.

          Its the continual lying ,people dont like chris 73,
          You do know what lying is , Chris73?

          • chris73 32.1.1.2.1
            8 April 2013 at 7:24 am

            Its the continual lying ,people dont like chris 73,
            – So explain why John Key is still one of the most popular leaders NZ has ever had

            You do know what lying is , Chris73?
            – Listen to the audio clip (where he explains what happened) and you decide if hes lying and make up your own mind

        • felix 32.1.1.3
          8 April 2013 at 7:23 am

          “Radio Live soundings have been clearly to the right of the political spectrum for years”

          Yep, demonstrated by the observation that chris thinks his sarcasm needs no explanation.

          It’s such an extreme right-wing environment that within it, Willie and JT appear to be far to the left.

          • chris73 32.1.1.3.1
            8 April 2013 at 7:32 am

            Willie Jackson is, JT not so much but rather then discuss my opinion (much as I’d like to) why not listen to the clip and form your own opinion (i know its a difficult concept for left-wingers but give it a go you might like it)

            • felix 32.1.1.3.1.1
              8 April 2013 at 7:44 am

              I heard it last week, didn’t hear anything like what you say is in it. Listening again right now, still can’t find your reference.

              Be a good trool and tell me whereabouts in the 36 minutes it occurs, won’t you?

              • felix …
                8 April 2013 at 7:49 am

                Particularly “Fergeson was Helen Clark’s man” or words to that effect.

                I still haven’t come across it and I’m well over half way through.

                • chris73 …
                  8 April 2013 at 8:08 am

                  I didn’t make it up as that suggests it was deliberate on my part instead I thought JT had confirmed it but if you want me to apologize for being mistaken then no worries

                  I apologize for being wrong

  33. chris73 33
    8 April 2013 at 8:34 am

    So you thought JT confirmed something you made up

    No, I got it wrong and unlike the majority of posters here I can admit when I’m wrong

    • felix 33.1
      8 April 2013 at 9:47 am

      lolz, you admit you were “wrong” because you got caught out making shit up.

  34. AmaKiwi 34
    9 April 2013 at 1:58 pm

    John Key “is smoking dope on that one” according to Bruce Ferguson. He calls Key’s statement “outrageous.”

    Former GCSB head Ferguson is now at war with John Key! Dynamite!

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10876297

    This morning the NZ Herald quickly pushed this piece off the front pages of its website. Read it!

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