Open mike 10/12/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 10th, 2024 - 45 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

45 comments on “Open mike 10/12/2024 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Muttonbird 1
    10 December 2024 at 8:57 am

    Nut jobs are crowing about a Treaty Issues Poll conducted by, you guessed it, disgraced polling company Curia Market Research. This poll was commissioned by Hobson's Pledge which should set off alarm bells.

    Now, since Curia has been ejected from the polling industry body, Research Association of New Zealand, for breaching their code, they don’t have to adhere to the code anymore. How convenient.

    One thing we know about Cruia's owner, David Farrar, is that he lets clients design the questions rather than advise them of best polling practice. This is what got him expelled from RANZ.

    The Hobson's Pledge poll which they will use, via proxies, to pressure politicians (happened already on the radio this morning apparently) has unbalanced and leading questions designed to weight a particular response. It also describes a referendum as a political body, another branch of government. I bet they'd love that.

    As with all Curia's pollinating, this one should be viewed by voters, and particularly the media who voters rely upon for accurate information, with a very high degree of scepticism.

  2. SPC 2
    10 December 2024 at 9:07 am

    If Maori TV had been given an increase for inflation since 2008, it would have 66% more revenue now.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/535797/pomarie-daily-tv-news-to-end-on-whakaata-maori-after-20-years

  3. tWig 3
    10 December 2024 at 10:46 am

    NZF has a review of sex and relationship education as part of its Coalition agreement. At least the review, unlike many recent government reviews, actually consulted across a broad range of the community and the education sector. RNZ has a deeper dive on the review results.

    '[this] Health and Physical Education learning area…[has] a focus on issues including preventing bullying, promoting healthy relationships and sexual health, and promoting inclusion and reducing discrimination.'

    'Over three-quarters of recent school leavers told us that they didn't learn enough about consent, managing feelings and emotions, and personal safety, including online.' Older girls thought that boys needed to be taught about consent and to understand that sex acts depicted by porn are unrealistic and often non-consented.

    In terms of community consultation, mandatory every 2 years for schools:

    '…the main challenges were vocal groups that disrupted consultation. "These groups have been most vocal about issues about genders and sexualities and are 'triggered by even the mention' of these terms. Their contributions can introduce misinformation into the consultation process.

    The report included case studies of schools where a vocal minority, including people with no relationship with the schools, opposed relationships and sexuality education plans… "A lot of it was literally unsafe – having to shut down a board meeting and walk out of our own school to de-escalate a situation that was going to turn into fisty-cuffs," a school representative told the report.'

    • Visubversa 3.1
      10 December 2024 at 5:46 pm

      Why should parents support a RSE curriculum which tells children that they have a gender identity that is more important than their actual sex?

      You might want to read the existing Year 1 to 8 outline – just start with the Glossary at the end.

      • SPC 3.1.1
        11 December 2024 at 6:44 am

        This issue is social conservatives opposing sexuality and relationship education in schools, your response is so what because of an unrelated red herring .

        What a sad abandonment of the next generation of same sex attracted females and those who have to put up with toxic males.

        • weka 3.1.1.1
          11 December 2024 at 9:06 am

          it's a bit more nuanced than that. Conservatives object to a range of things about RSE, including sex education, and what they see as promotion of homosexuality and transgenderism.

          Lesbians (you were replying to a politicised left wing one), gender critical feminists and gay men object to aspects of the same curriculum because of the impact on them and their families. That's not only about gender identity issues, it also includes concern about other aspects or RSE. The longer the left ignores these utterly valid concerns, the more people move to social conservatives to get their political needs met. This is a well known dynamic happening across the English speaking world.

          I haven't looked at the consultation, but based on many years of engagement with left and centre left people working on this issue from a gender critical pov, it's very likely that some of the people making submissions that liberals would object to are in fact socially liberal/left. In other words, this isn't solely an issue about conservatives as you assert.

          And guess what? Politicised left wing lesbians and feminists have some actual solutions to the issues of sex education that don't involved trying to force policy on an increasingly stressed and polarised society.

          • SPC 3.1.1.1.1
            11 December 2024 at 10:14 am

            I hold to the opine that opposition to relationships and sex education in schools is coming from social conservatives.

            Who speaks with one voice for politicised lesbians and feminists? The gender critical ones? This is not even about gender identity.

            • weka 3.1.1.1.1.1
              11 December 2024 at 10:31 am

              I hold to the opine that opposition to relationships and sex education in schools is coming from social conservatives.

              This is a given, no need to repeat it unless you are saying that conservatives are the only ones who have concerns and objections. I already addressed that.

              Who speaks with one voice for politicised lesbians and feminists? The gender critical ones? This is not even about gender identity.

              Please reread what I wrote. I clearly pointed out that there are issues for leftists that aren't only about gender identity.

              No idea what you mean by who speaks for. Who speaks for the left? Or feminists? or farmers? Or any class of people. It's a nonsensical question.

              • weka …
                11 December 2024 at 10:33 am

                let's try and save us some time.

                If you are unaware of the issues around RSE in addition to GI that leftists have concerns about, that wouldn't surprise me. There is a such a push back against any kind of progressive critical debate about this, even here in this conversation it's not about finding out what people think and debating that.

                But you could just ask, right?

                • SPC …
                  11 December 2024 at 10:42 am

                  I've already walked away.

                  • weka …
                    11 December 2024 at 11:44 am

                    except you keep commenting in these discussions, so not really walked away.

                    QED. At least now we know that your ignorance is intentional.

                    • SPC …
                      11 December 2024 at 12:21 pm

                      Stop gaslighting those who do not pander to your apologetics, as ignorant of your truth.

                      “Issues”, the TWR party want InsideOut banned from sex education in schools coz they are rainbow.

                      https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/trashing.htm

                    • weka []
                      11 December 2024 at 1:09 pm

                      Stop misusing the term gaslighting.

                      It’s nothing to do with ‘my’ truth. There’s a principle here of being able to represent our opponent’s arguments and positions in good faith, on any topic of politics. If you won’t do that (and it looks like won’t to me), then you’re just running propaganda lines.

                      “Issues”, the TWR party want InsideOut banned from sex education in schools coz they are rainbow.

                      This is a great example of what I am talking about. Instead of understanding the Women’s Rights Party’s actual position, just toss out some unsubstantiated reckons in SM that denigrate their politics. Why bother forming a coherent political argument when you can do that instead? Well to answer my own rhetorical question, the people that I disagree with most, across many topics, are better rebutted in robust debate by rebutting their positions, not the one’s we pick up casually or without thought.

                      It is of course possible that you have engage with WRP’s positions, and are simply choosing to misrepresent them. In the absence of any evidence, people are free to make up their own minds on that.

                    • weka []
                      11 December 2024 at 1:12 pm

                      btw, the question you’re probably not asking is why WRP and other lefties have concerns about Inside Out’s involvement. As if Inside Out are inherently Good, and anyone who objects to them are bigots. That’s the end of robust debate within the left right there.

                    • SPC …
                      11 December 2024 at 1:26 pm

                      “Refocus the curriculum on academic achievement and not ideology, including the removal and replacement of the gender, sexuality, and relationship-based guidelines” (noting that we are not opposed to age-appropriate sex education, and we don’t see a place for activist groups like InsideOut in our schools)

                      https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2311/S00185/coalition-agreement-sheds-light-on-gender-ideology-that-has-captured-policy-and-law-making.htm

                    • weka []
                      11 December 2024 at 2:27 pm

                      so nothing about objecting to InsideOut because they’re gay.

                      Again, the question is, what are the objections from WRP, and other feminists, to an activist group like IO? Because homophobia seems incredibly unlikely.

  4. tWig 4
    10 December 2024 at 10:53 am

    For Blue Sky advocates here, BHN interviews Rose Wang, one of two women running BlueSky. (from 1h14).

  5. gsays 5
    10 December 2024 at 11:22 am

    I had the misfortune to hear Luxon on RNZ this morning.

    After playing a part of an interview with a sub-contractor to Solar Zero, Luxon was asked repeatedly if he would speak to Fink of Black Rock about their disgraceful treatment of workers and subcontractors left out of pocket.

    Luxon made it clear by his responses was that he cares more about the dollars taxpayers have rather than taxpayers (voters, citizens) themselves.

    This is echoed by him and his cronies, when speaking of health, always citing budgets rather than health needs.

  6. observer 6
    10 December 2024 at 1:12 pm

    Genuinely surprised by this … the internal poll results must have been damning!

    Still, credit where it's due: government in "doing the right thing" shock …

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/winston-peters-announces-greyhound-racing-ban-to-protect-dog-welfare/WOGNW5WPHBHSPPWT7RYXMHIAXI/

    • Graeme 6.1
      10 December 2024 at 6:03 pm

      Wasn't there supposed to be an announcement about the ferries today?

      Total speculation here, but maybe NZ First nixed it re rail capability, then Winston as Minister for Racing had to announce a ban on greyhound racing….

      • Incognito 6.1.1
        10 December 2024 at 6:08 pm

        Yes, they missed the boat, or it went to the dogs cheeky

        I believe we can expect an announcement tomorrow (according to Newsroom mail letter).

  7. joe90 7
    10 December 2024 at 1:34 pm

    Looks like the guy arrested for offing the health insurance CEO is a rich boy ivy league, an heir to a fortune, he went to $40k p/a school, fan of unabomber Ted Kaczynski, who dined out on the utterings of Musk, Carlson, and Thiel etc.

    I'm guessing that he could afford insurance…

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/12/09/us/luigi-mangione-what-we-know-monday/index.html

    https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2024/12/man-arrested-with-weapon-consistent-with-gun-in-killing-of-unitedhealthcare-ceo.html

  8. Ad 8
    10 December 2024 at 1:56 pm

    A big shoutout to Winston Peters for the full ban on Greyhound racing. Robertson had plenty of chances to do it, tonnes of negative reports.

    A great day when the legislation comes next Tuesday against NZ animal cruelty.

    • observer 8.1
      10 December 2024 at 2:04 pm

      It's classic "Nixon to China", really.

      A Lab/Green government doing exactly the same thing would be "woke/soy latte/tree huggers" (add usual cliches from tedious knee-jerkers).

      This way, the Right will be neutralised, so the decision will stick. Like Key keeping the smacking ban.

      • Ad 8.1.1
        10 December 2024 at 3:11 pm

        That just makes excuses that the left are weak so leave it to the big boys.

        Ardern and Robertson's record doesn't help that impression, but they intervened stronger and deeper than many governments before her.

        • Louis 8.1.1.1
          10 December 2024 at 6:26 pm

          Agree with Observer @6 & @8.1

          Winston Peters had a chance to ban greyhound racing when he was the Minister for Racing under the previous Labour government. If memory serves, Winston did say at the time, that he would do something about the appalling greyhound racing industry, yet he pretty much enabled it.

          "Ryan said Peters’ greatest achievement for thoroughbred, harness and greyhound racing was the introduction of the Racing Reform Act 2019. “It has allowed the gallops, the harness and the greyhounds, all of which are important to the Waikato, greater control over their destiny…I think that is Winston’s greatest legacy. He had an appreciation that racing was a high employer, a high generator of export earnings and that the industry does have a place in the world of sport. For the years he was minister, he certainly understood the need for investment and how it would generate returns to the economy…We need someone who has passion for the industry and that was something that Winston had."

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/123145843/racing-industry-ponders-future-without-new-zealand-first-and-winston-peters

    • Kay 8.2
      10 December 2024 at 2:14 pm

      Wouldn't it be nice if they cared just as much about suffering humans as they do greyhounds, and passed the appropriate legislation under urgency to righten their wrongs?

      • Mike the Lefty 8.2.1
        10 December 2024 at 7:10 pm

        I think it was all calculated timing. What with mill closures, soaring unemployment, and public health collapsing while we watch they needed something that people could pat them on the back for – so bingo! they found something.

        Not many people outside the Greyhound racing industry will be mourning its closure, I reckon.

    • Incognito 8.3
      10 December 2024 at 2:49 pm

      It’s a red herring – a big shout out to the collective cruelty towards animals by CoC.

      This Coalition of Cruelty has reinstated live animal exports.

      https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/government-progressing-commitment-reinstate-livestock-exports-sea

      This Coalition of Cruelty has repealed rules for winter grazing (aka mud farming).

      https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/supporting-rural-new-zealand-one-year-action

      Under the watchful eye of this Coalition of Cruelty, so far over 200,000 chickens have been culled in recent times.

      https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/north-otago/jobs-safe-chicken-cull-rises-200000

      Let’s not even mention slack ‘rules’ for the fishing industry to minimise bycatch.

      • Ad 8.3.1
        10 December 2024 at 2:58 pm

        I'm not sure they caused the biosecurity outbreak.

        The live animal export grinds the most. Last time was 6,000 drowned at sea.

        • Incognito 8.3.1.1
          10 December 2024 at 3:09 pm

          No, of course, they didn’t cause the biosecurity breach, nor did they release anything from a lab or cave, nor did they crash a meteorite in Aotearoa that contained spores or viral particles. Has CoC put into place best-practice mitigation strategies and policies? CoC is Plan B, at best.

          Anyway, the point is that animal cruelty in NZ is alive and well and CoC has no zero-tolerance policy platform for this. It’s rather the opposite, where both environment and animals are tortured and sacrificed on the altar of economic progress and prosperity.

          • Ad 8.3.1.1.1
            10 December 2024 at 3:41 pm

            Vastly overdone.

            More than most we're an economy of death.

            We 'process' about 400,00 cattle a year from a total of 3.6million kept, just for NZ we kill about 20 chickens per NZ person, use 5.9 million cows and then kill them all, slaughter about 30,000 deer, kill 17.6 million lambs, and kill about 12 million fish by drowning.

            We are and have been industrial-scale slaughter.

            • Incognito 8.3.1.1.1.1
              10 December 2024 at 4:39 pm

              Vastly overdone.

              Coming from you, that’s a compliment cheeky

              Breeding animals must be done humane, slaughtering must be done humane, reducing animals is humane and it it’ll be good for the environment.

              I’ll give a shout out to any government that implements improvements of the above with emphasis on animal welfare.

              Coalition of Crickets.

      • gsays 8.3.2
        10 December 2024 at 4:47 pm

        If yr talking cruelty, don't leave out 1080 poisoning of any mammal or fish that comes across it.

        Only defendable if it is being looked at through an economic lens.

        • Incognito 8.3.2.1
          10 December 2024 at 5:21 pm

          Don’t start a convo about cruelty.

          I think it’s cruel to let people suffer on waiting lists for elective surgery.

          I think it’s cruel to let people suffer with mental health problems to a point where they attempt suicide.

          I think it’s cruel to imprison people and then release them back into the same environment that shaped them into who they are and not just expecting but actually demanding a different outcome – such demand is not only moral posturing and patronising but also heartless because it’s about a return on investment (of taxpayers’ money).

          I think it’s cruel to give people false hope.

      • Louis 8.3.3
        10 December 2024 at 6:28 pm

        yes Incognito.

    • Bearded Git 8.4
      11 December 2024 at 7:53 am

      McAnulty was in charge of this as minister for racing apparently. He said in May 23 (today's ODT):

      "the status quo was no longer viable….We are faced with two options: continue under strict conditions or closure."

      McAnulty, however, did not take any action before the election. He said he had been delayed due to his other responsibilities as cyclone recovery minister following a series of severe weather events.

      https://www.odt.co.nz/sport/racing/government-ban-greyhound-racing

      I know you never miss a chance to criticise the last Labour government Ad, but it should not be forgotten that Covid and the two cyclone events were massive and very resource and energy draining.

      Peters was part of the Lab/Gr/NZF government when at least one report heavily criticising Greyhound racing had already been published but he did nothing then.

  9. SPC 9
    11 December 2024 at 7:06 am

    The government is herding money towards the TAB and its partner Entain – money for the industry to invest in tracks etc.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/racing/new-zealand-racing-industry-to-benefit-from-new-legislation-against-overseas-bookmakers/BOGVLEO2XFCPDD6YPMEKJIK3QQ/

    This news preceded that about the end of 'horse and hound" bars near combined use tracks.

    Just when the industry was getting its act together to meet the terms for its continuance … the end cometh.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/racing/the-human-cost-of-greyhound-racings-unexpected-demise-michael-guerin/WCGM3LODPNFUFJJSBFEXBMVCEI/