Open mike 21/05/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 21st, 2012 - 92 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

92 comments on “Open mike 21/05/2012 ”

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  1. Bored 1
    21 May 2012 at 9:00 am

    A must watch piss take on bankers….

  2. Bored 2
    21 May 2012 at 9:23 am

    I get bollock bored reiterating to my “centrist” middle class Key voting associates that we have a train wreck of youth unemployment here in NZ. I know Canterbury has a had a quake but look at this:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/6955597/More-young-people-out-of-work-in-city

    The number of Cantabrians aged 15 to 24 in employment has dropped by 12,300, the September 2011 Household Labour Force Survey revealed.

    The fall comes despite 8700 people in the age bracket leaving the city last year.

    In effect this says that in an area of 350,000 we might expect to find 12% of the population aged 18-24…..roughly 42000 people, of whom 12,300 are out of work (nearly a third), and if you count those who have gone 21,000…a half.

    This is a huge indictment on the failure of all recent governments, especially the current NACT crop who don’t appear to even acknowledge the issue or give a rats arse. And worse still its a giant j’acuse at those voter who work on the “I am all right Jack” principle.

    • muzza 2.1
      21 May 2012 at 11:05 am

      “And worse still its a giant j’acuse at those voter who work on the “I am all right Jack” principle”

      — Yup, and those same selfish fools who think that they are out of harms way, will be in the line of fire eventually, on current course!

  3. Te Reo Putake 3
    21 May 2012 at 9:47 am

    There may be a significant breakthrough in the Affco dispute this morning; it looks like pressure from Iwi has forced Talley’s back to the table and an agreement now looks likely.

    • Vicky32 3.1
      21 May 2012 at 5:58 pm

      There may be a significant breakthrough in the Affco dispute this morning

      Good news! 🙂

  4. deuto 4
    21 May 2012 at 10:02 am

    Question for a moderator

    If someone is currently on a one week ban here (guess who) and posts a comment on another blog (KB, General Debate today) asking for someone there to post their comment on the Standard for them, what is the position? I have no intention of doing so; the comment appears to include a link to the banned person’s own blog……

    PS – FYI the same banned person was also using the other blog yesterday to respond to/comment on comments posted here subsequent to the TS ban being invoked.

    • Carol 4.1
      21 May 2012 at 10:10 am

      Out of sight, out of mind. Please don’t remind me.

    • deuto 4.2
      21 May 2012 at 10:14 am

      Link is to a Stuff article, not his blog. Agreed, Carol, but trying to preempt…..

    • Lanthanide 4.3
      21 May 2012 at 10:21 am

      I should think he can do whatever he wants on another site.

      Anyone who was foolish enough to copy his comments over to here should expect moderator attention – probably deleting the comments to start with and escalating from there as necessary.

    • IrishBill 4.4
      21 May 2012 at 11:05 am

      It’s up to us how we moderate. Pete’s politics may be remiss but his heart is in the right place. He is, however, a bit obsessive (as are some other regular commenters) – I’ve seen this with commenters before and it generally ends in tears. I think it’s time to let it go.

      I’d also recommend that anyone who finds themselves taking the blogs too seriously, and I include obsessing over who said what to who on another blog, should take a few days off to spend some time in the real world. It’ll do you good.

      • dd 4.4.1
        21 May 2012 at 11:17 am

        For the most part Pete provides good debate here and does obviously put a lot of time into knowing his stuff.

        Where he becomes annoying is the frequency at which he posts.

        Anyway,

        I see stuff have an article on how the majority of people still blame Labour for debt. A perfect opportunity for Labour to get some media spotlight and point out the flaws in this.

      • ianmac 4.4.2
        21 May 2012 at 12:11 pm

        You guys run this excellent site. I am happy to accept your moderation/banning. I wouldn’t complain just as I wouldn’t should a householder asked me to leave their property. Not that that has ever happened!

  5. Jackal 5
    21 May 2012 at 10:25 am

    Fonterra environmental bullies

    I enjoy watching Rural Delivery in the weekends. They’ve been running stories recently about developments in farm effluent treatment systems, and this made me hopeful that we might finally see a reduction in the amount of pollution going into New Zealand waterways…

    • Bored 5.1
      21 May 2012 at 2:55 pm

      Its quite amusing in a sad way but true that if you want to catch a trout go to a sheep farming area.

  6. Penny Bright 6
    21 May 2012 at 10:48 am

    PROTEST TODAY, Monday 21 May 2012
    12 noon – 2pm
    OUTSIDE JOHN BANK’S EPSOM OFFICE
    27 Gillies Ave
    Newmarket

    A protest has been called today, calling for the resignation of – the arguably not so ‘Honorable’ MP for Epsom, because he is not, in my considered opinion, ‘fit for duty’ as an MP – let alone a Minister.

    ( http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com/give-a-grrl-a-banner/ shows some of the banners that will be on display, and should attract attention at this busy part of Newmarket during the flow of lunchtime traffic.)

    How come former Labour MP Taito Phillip Field got sentenced for SIX years for ‘bribery and corruption’, for providing ‘immigration advice’ to Thai nationals in exchange for work on his properties – while Minister John Banks gets political protection from NZ Prime Minister John Key, after giving ‘immigration assistance’ and Coatsville property purchase ‘assistance’ to a German/ Finnish national, in return for $50,000 donated to ‘Banksie’s’ 2010 Auckland Mayoral campaign fund, and gifts valued at over $500 which he failed to declare?

    It is also of great concern to me, as a fighter against ‘white collar’ crime, that ACT’s ‘one law for all’ has yet to apply to both the current and former Leaders of the ACT Party, whom, as former fellow directors of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd, both signed Huljich Kiwisaver Scheme registered prospectuses dated 22 August 2008 and 18 September 2009, which contained untrue statements, but were never charged for so doing. This is a strict liability offence under s58(3) of the Securities Act 1978, but neither the old Securities Commission, the Finance Markets Authority (FMA), the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) , nor the NZ Police arguably ‘did their job’ and charged Banks or Brash. Have they been politically protected at the highest levels?

    (Copies of this correspondence are avaialbe on http://www.pennybright4epsom.org.nz )

    John Banks is now the Minister of Regulatory Reform, yet four different ‘regulatory’ bodies failed to act against him, someone, who arguably couldn’t properly run a Kiwisaver Scheme, yet now has a key Ministerial post and is supposedly helping to run the country ‘perceived’ to be the ‘least corrupt in the world’? (According to Transparency Internaional’s 2011 ‘Corruption Perception Index, http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/ which obviously, in my considered opinion, is not worth the paper upon which it is written.)

    I don’t expect the ACT MP for Epsom, Minister of Regulatory Reform, the ‘Honorable’ John Banks, to be particularly keen to see me, or this protest, which is intended to ‘hold his feet to the fire’.

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    • uke 6.1
      21 May 2012 at 12:27 pm

      Penny, Good luck with the protest.

      Has there ever been any official explanation why Banks and Brash were not charged after the investigation into Huljich Wealth Management?

  7. muzza 7
    21 May 2012 at 11:34 am

    Ahead of the council’s budget announcement, Local Government Minister David Carter urged councils around the country to consider the sale of strategic assets rather than rates rises to fund projects.

    “Mr Carter told TVNZ’s Q & A yesterday that local governments were in a similar position to central government, which intends to balance the books by selling up to 49 per cent of shares in the state-owned energy companies, and a further stake in Air NZ”

    “I think if you look at my own city of Christchurch where we clearly have an extraordinary situation, the Christchurch balance sheet is strong with a number of assets, the council needs to make the decision.”

    — One can see how this is going to play out in advance!

    • Draco T Bastard 7.1
      21 May 2012 at 2:39 pm

      Not really surprising, National are all about getting the hands of the rich on our assets so that they can become even bigger thieves rentiers.

  8. prism 8
    21 May 2012 at 11:43 am

    Matthew Hooton this morning got into his stride on his favourite subject, his own opinion about our economic situation and why it’s Labour’s fault. He talked over the top of Josie Pagani quite a lot. One swingeing quote – “No government anywhere in the world creates jobs”.

    I’m sick of cynical negative right-wingers who quote figures from the sweepings of the economist floor as a reason for governments not doing anything. When we need practical policies to stimulate business or advance policies that will assist the mass of small taxpayers we get this do-nothing chant. We should be putting in Auckland’s rail while prices are cheap and spending on infrastructure resulting in more employment. Of course we do have to try to employ New Zealanders, not shoot ourselves in the foot bringing in cheap labour while our own people languish and despair and drink and drug or steal so they can have regular food, good housing that presently they are shut away from.

    Also he talks about having a surplus in the 1990s and refers first to Ruth Richardson and Bill Birch with Michael Cullen added on. He was all right until the last three years and then spent on policies. ‘Working for Families is one of his insane policies that delivers welfare to the wealthy.’

    He ignores what he must have learned in any studies he has done, that paying this sort of assistance to everyone cuts across the wealthy drone about how they are supporting low income drones and it’s not fair they should pay out all the time! Also it tends to be easier and cheaper to administrate when going to all in the target group, rather than scrutinising people’s rather than trying to sieve out the goodies from the bad low incomes.

    And lastly this thing about ‘welfare’ – we all have advantage from the provisions that government makes for the nation. One of the things the wealthy and those in power have done is to trade most of our manufacturing jobs, a continuing process, because the world has gone free market which has had some advantages and massive disadvantages. It was obvious that jobs would be lost, the pr…ks knew this so now they are cynically blaming conditions on the poor and resenting every assistance.

    • ianmac 8.1
      21 May 2012 at 12:14 pm

      prism:”Also it tends to be easier and cheaper to administrate when going to all in the target group, rather than scrutinising people’s rather than trying to sieve out the goodies from the bad low incomes.”

      Pretty sure that at the time that is exactly Mr Cullens point. So true.

      • aerobubble 8.1.1
        21 May 2012 at 12:38 pm

        Drug lords are okay if they keep a high income and off the dole? The problem with fishing the pool of poor is that you aren’t as diligent at higher incomes. Providing welfare has never been justification for criminalization of the poorest – except by fascists. Sure there will always be some, like the lady who didn’t declare she was living with her husband. Just because one banker creates a ponsi scheme doesn’t mean all bankers are criminals.

        The solution is to provide the basic limited income to survive as a negative income tax, that rewards people who have little to engage in economic activity, presently the system punitively scraps any extra income at 70c in the dollar blocking the stepping stone from a little work to part-time work.

        Give the social injustice of large parts of the population leveraging themselves into massive debt exposure, and then desperate wanting tax cuts to continue their bubble economic vision. At the expense of future generations, the environment, all the activity economics of selling stuff sideways to create paper profit growth (asset sales), shows up the lying conceit in our elites.

    • felix 8.2
      21 May 2012 at 12:33 pm

      lolz at Hooton yelling “Josie Josie Josie CALM DOWN!”

      His self-awareness is hilariously low, even for a Golem.

      • prism 8.2.1
        21 May 2012 at 12:59 pm

        felix 😀

      • mac1 8.2.2
        21 May 2012 at 1:04 pm

        Hooton does interrupt far too much. I think it’s a tactic to destroy the point that the other speaker is making. Certainly, I found it very hard to follow the thread of the arguments. I wish that Nat Radio took notice of that complaint.

        Pleased to see you returned safely from the gorse fields, Felix.

        • felix 8.2.2.1
          21 May 2012 at 1:11 pm

          Much quicker than I thought! Now for the blackberry…

        • tc 8.2.2.2
          21 May 2012 at 1:16 pm

          Makes for bad radio all round, the shouty Hooten and the underpowered Pagani…..a couple of go to media commentators with egos way out of proportion to their ability.

        • js 8.2.2.3
          21 May 2012 at 1:16 pm

          It would good to have more of a green commentator ‘from the left’ sometimes. Today’s comment about nobody being against growth would then be challenged. I’m more for redistribution, personally, and not in favour of ‘growth’ if it means exploitation of the planet’s limited resources.

          • Gosman 8.2.2.3.1
            21 May 2012 at 2:49 pm

            Not even the NZ Green party is advocating for a zero-growth economic policy. You might as well find a militant Trotskyite to offer their perspectives for all the relevance for mainstream NZ politics.

            • Bored 8.2.2.3.1.1
              21 May 2012 at 3:09 pm

              How right you are, nobody will advocate a zero growth policy. I suspect the Greens will go as far as a zero balance policy on the “externalities” (especially environmental) that are currently unpaid in our economic system.

              More importantly we had better get used to a zero growth economy because that is what we have now, and will have for good in the future. There is a methodology prior NZ governments have used for this scenario: its called “balancing the books”. Its got these nasty little necessities such as import controls etc. It used to upset most people, they will be again.

              • Gosman …
                21 May 2012 at 3:37 pm

                What???

                Your second paragraph makes little sense. Something along the lines of we currently have zero growth now and should get used to it in future, (does this mean you are cool with everything), and then something about import controls. Truly bizarre shift in thinking there.

                • Bored …
                  21 May 2012 at 4:07 pm

                  Gos, we currently have zero growth full stop.No problem so far, its demonstrable.

                  The next contention is get used to it: I happen to believe that resource depletion (in particular energy depletion) will result in a declining economy (as opposed to either growth or zero balance). There is lots of evidence (dont ask me to cite).

                  Final contention (also historically demonstrable) is that before growth became the accepted norm governments and businesses lived on their current balance, therefore had to balance their books.

                  Bizarre? What I find truly bizarre is the number of people walking blindfolded into a very evident future because they cant get out of the cornucopian mindset.

                  • Gosman …
                    21 May 2012 at 6:30 pm

                    Funnily enough I’ve been having a similar discussion with someone on the Hot Topic blog recently (see, I haven’t been away from the internet completely).

              • Vicky32 …
                21 May 2012 at 6:37 pm

                How right you are, nobody will advocate a zero growth policy.

                Especially the Greens! They’re a farce, honestly. Blue-Greens, opportunists and irredeemably middle class…

          • Sam Hall 8.2.2.3.2
            21 May 2012 at 3:56 pm

            Read Growth Fetish by Clive Hamilton

        • Gosman 8.2.2.4
          21 May 2012 at 2:55 pm

          Do you have a better alternative from the left and the right then?

          • felix 8.2.2.4.1
            21 May 2012 at 2:59 pm

            I don’t mind Hooton as a spokesperson for the right.

            • Gosman 8.2.2.4.1.1
              21 May 2012 at 3:01 pm

              Some people seem to do though. Why all the complaining about him shouting down poor Josie Pagani?

              • felix …
                21 May 2012 at 3:13 pm

                I happen to think it reflects poorly on Hooten which I don’t mind at all, but it also reflects poorly on Pagani that she allows it. Williams doesn’t let Hooten shout him down. Neither does McCarten.

                • Gosman …
                  21 May 2012 at 3:39 pm

                  They all do it to an extent. Hooten tends to interupt when he spots BS during a long diatribe from the left wing commentator. Kathryn Ryan struggles at time to control him, (and the others), but generally does an okay job. Williams and Hooten end up agreeing with each more often than not so perhaps that is why he doesn’t interupt as much.

                  • felix …
                    21 May 2012 at 3:54 pm

                    Who would you like to see doing these spots, presuming we stick with the “left v right” format?

                  • Vicky32 …
                    21 May 2012 at 6:45 pm

                    Williams and Hooten end up agreeing with each more often than not so perhaps that is why he doesn’t interupt as much.

                    Weirdness about 2 weeks ago, when Ryan messed up and said “From the Right, Mike Williams!”
                    That wasn’t the weird part – that happened when Williams said in response to her apology “That’s all right, I am really on the right, when I stop and think about it”.
                    With Ryan herself, that episode became a love fest of agreement amongst the three. 🙁

                    • felix …
                      21 May 2012 at 7:10 pm

                      Well yeah, boil it down enough and they’re all discussing the issues of the day from strictly within the boundaries of our neo-liberal right wing economic paradigm.

                  • mike e …
                    21 May 2012 at 6:54 pm

                    goose only because style is more important than substance

      • Vicky32 8.2.3
        21 May 2012 at 6:18 pm

        lolz at Hooton yelling “Josie Josie Josie CALM DOWN!”

        Oh yes, a totally weird moment!

    • Bored 8.3
      21 May 2012 at 2:58 pm

      Maffoo and Josie, a greater and a lesser RWNJ! Who will speak for the Left?

  9. Te Reo Putake 9
    21 May 2012 at 12:30 pm

    A press release on an end to the AFFCO dispute:
     
     
     Joint Media Statement
     
    21st May 2012
     
    Significant Progress in AFFCO dispute
     
    After a full day of negotiations in Auckland yesterday the parties to the long running industrial dispute at the AFFCO meat works have made significant progress and are now working quickly towards trying to reach a final agreement for union members to ratify.
     
    The parties today reached provisional agreement on the core document and are now working towards the settlement of specific site documents.
     
    As part of a joint commitment to building a new type of relationship the parties have agreed and committed to a return to work within a short time frame of all workers and the withdrawal or suspension of all legal action while the final details are agreed.
     
    The union and the owners of AFFCO (Talley Group) have been greatly assisted by the Iwi Leaders Forum who were represented at the negotiations today and  wish to jointly acknowledged the role this group has played in working with both sides to find solutions that will enable the company to thrive in the future and the workers to work under fair and reasonable conditions.
     
    The Iwi leadership forum members including Ken Mair, Tukoroirangi Morgan and Sonny Tau are adamant that in order to achieve an enduring settlement between the two parties it must be hinged around trust and confidence.
     
    “The commitment by Andrew Talley and senior management to an open and regular dialogue with Union officials goes a long way to restoring confidence and certainty,” said the Iwi leaders. 
     
    “We have both sought to learn from this dispute and ensure that moving forward we build in the opportunity for a new type of relationship between the company, the union and its members.  We also both value the ongoing commitment from Iwi to support this relationship”  Andrew Talley said on behalf of AFFCO.
     
    “Our members will be greatly relieved that we have made this progress today and keenly interested in us moving towards a full settlement.  They are very open to making these meat works the best in the country and will welcome a different type of relationship, “  Dave Eastlake Meat Workers General Secretary said.
     
    The parties will be making no further comment while the process is continuing.  

  10. prism 10
    21 May 2012 at 1:06 pm

    Any other people who hadn’t heard of Louis Crimp and wondered .. I’ve just put some informative links on Open Mike for yesterday 20/5. I meant to put it on today’s.

    Guess how he made his money – pokies and not winning on them haha. You didn’t think that did you. No his business is in the machines – for the players he’s the ghost in the machine perhaps.

    • Hateatea 10.1
      21 May 2012 at 7:41 pm

      His original source of wealth was Andrew Housing, as far as I am aware. The bars and pokies came later

      • prism 10.1.1
        22 May 2012 at 10:25 am

        On Louis Crimp. Couldn’t easily get info about Andrew Housing but there was quite a lot about him. I am fascinated by his big hearted philanthropy. He bought a house sold as a fundraiser by hospice for three times the expected price was one thing that raised his profile. He always has plenty to say and seems to be consulted for comment ad nauseum.

        Another project was to buy a carpark by a licensing trust tavern with the idea of building a hospital for alzheimers patients there. He has regular run ins with the Invercargill Licensing Trust which might be a hint about this idea. Here is a background link on this.
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/5068041/Crimp-leaves-trees-across-tavern-driveway

  11. Tiger Mountain 11
    21 May 2012 at 1:06 pm

    Well there has to be a circut breaker sometimes, and Sonny and the Moerewa people were getting well pissed off with Talley’s in Northland. Maybe the frozen pea sales were dropping a bit too in the odd Pak ’n Save.

    Not everything must be talked about on blogs. But, “the withdrawal or suspension of all legal action while the final details are agreed” is a worry because an ‘in favour of the union ruling’ as per Open Country Cheese as to the legality of employing scabs, not to mention the legality of the targeted lockouts while the MWU was in bargaining, could help a number of workers in the very near future with Talley’s favourite charity, the Natz about to take us all back to 1991.

    Looks like a typical Talley’s tactical tit pull to me at first glance.

  12. Draco T Bastard 12
    21 May 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Tapu Misa on the lack of sacrifice by the rich and the excess sacrifice by the poor dealt by this government.

    “Judged by the yardstick of international norms,” he writes, “New Zealand under-taxes high income earners and over-taxes low income earners.” Using the preferred OECD “tax wedge” measure, for example, New Zealand’s tax rate among the 28 high-income OECD countries at the $100,000 salary level is 15 percentage points lower than the average, “representing over US$26,000 in tax that the average high income OECD country collects from these workers and their employers [that] New Zealand does not”.

    Well, so much for the rich running off to other countries if we raise taxes on them. If they did they’d be taxed more.

    • muzza 12.1
      21 May 2012 at 2:51 pm

      Perhaps they are bouyed by such articles…

      NZ rated highly for investment safety

      I guess they did not factor in the internal investor issues, about $10b lost of investors cash in the financial companies theft!

      The drivel the quoted from the bloke at D & B is , confused, bob each way stuff!

    • ianmac 12.2
      21 May 2012 at 3:51 pm

      That was exactly the para that I toyed with reposting here Draco. It is funny how higher taxes are always painted as a disaster and yet those northern European countries tax higher and do better. Especially when lower taxes are used as support for the myth that rich people provide the jobs rather than the poorer spending and working provide the wealth.

  13. Sam Hall 13
    21 May 2012 at 4:06 pm

    In addition to discourse, what types of activities are opponents to the current Neo-Liberal Capitalist Growth Economic Ideology Regime taking?
    Subverting the forms of propaganda previously dominated by those abusing power.
    But what Action; What translation into behaviour,care and guidance?
    Downsizing?
    Downshifting?
    Deleveraging (urrgh!)
    Reducing Reusing Recycling
    Deinsuring
    Disestablishing
    Dissent before dishonour.
    Leaving the payment of all greedy accounts till the 3 Month business payment schedule elapses?
    Public transport use.
    Kai gathering, home gardening, home cooking

    I mean shutting off the blood supply to the greedy parasites.

    Any more suggestions?

    • Kevin Welsh 13.1
      21 May 2012 at 4:27 pm

      There is always the ‘5.56 option of last resort’, but I expect to see that in Europe sometime in the near future, not here. Maybe that will make a few of the corporate bludgers sit-up and take notice.

    • Uturn 13.2
      21 May 2012 at 6:08 pm

      Yes, there are some good suggestions in there. As always, it is the doing that matters, at the personal level, rather than any list of possibles for the undefined masses. In that context then, here’s what a particular philosopher had to say a long time ago, shortly before he left a country that was descending into chaos:

      “When the great Tao is forgotten,
      goodness and piety appear.
      When the body’s intelligence declines,
      cleverness and knowledge step forth.
      When there is no peace in the family,
      filial piety begins.
      When the country falls into chaos,
      Patriotism is born.”      .

      LaoTzu said the Tao was a way of natural harmony, greater than and existing before god. It’s interesting to see how the concept moves past good and bad as final resting points of human behaviour – listing them, really, as lesser evils – and reaches past that to an absolute kind of flowing/alternating order/disorder.

      Within the context of your question on what each of us can do, via behaviour care and guidelines, we could do worse than use these guidelines as measure for action. LaoTzu’s political comments would also be echoed thousands of years later in social movements that understood that the overall good of the people as a collective mattered more than anything else; more than leaders careers, empire building or even the sciences. He was of the idea that materialism undermined the health of people and the earth.

      Of course, his work has been fantastically abused by various Chinese leaders and historical figures since then, distorting it from a route to peace into sexual warfare and justification for totalitarianism and oppressions, but then so has Christianity under the capitalists. So as long as we understand this is a guide for our behaviour towards peace, not war and oppression, not as tool of offense, then we’ll stay the right side of the line – I hope. Shouldn’t be too hard to translate into modern terminology: you touch on several points already, such as “downsizing”, “downshifting” etc.

      “Throw away holiness and wisdom’
      and the people will be a hundred times happier.
      Throw away morality and justice,
      and people will do the right thing.
      Throw away industry and profit,
      and there won’t be any thieves.

      If these three aren’t enough,
      just stay at the centre of the circle
      and let all things take their course.”

      This pretty much spells out the main idea: while man cannot hope to not act in response to events, he should know how to do the least amount of damage and reach for the action of in-action that will naturally lead to the best action. As left eventually becomes right, why get into the power struggle at all?

      “The great Way is easy,
      yet people prefer the side paths.
      Be aware when things are out of balance.
      Stay centred within the Tao.

      When rich speculators prosper,
      while farmers lose their land;
      when government officials spend money,
      on weapons instead of cures;
      when the upper class is extravagant and irresponsible
      while the poor have nowhere to turn –
      all this is robbery and chaos.
      It is not in keeping with the Tao.”

      The Tao Te Ching is somewhat of an oxymoron, since it’s existence contradicts the goal of the masters, which was to not speak, but do. It was written, we are told, because someone asked for guidelines to the art of living as a master was leaving a particular part of the country. I think that “leaving” actually meant he was approaching death, but we could get lost in metaphors and lose the message: action, above all else.

      There is another frequently cited tale that says a region was under all kinds of trouble, environmentally and socially, and a master was called to settle it. He camped on the outskirts of the region, isolated and seeing no one, until things returned to normal – which was within a few days. The idea is that he was so in tune with the natural way of things, that his presence, his act of relocating, brought natural balance back to the region. He didn’t talk, and neither should anyone, is the meaning. Do something that moves toward balance, instead.

      The Master doesn’t try to be powerful;
      Thus he is truly powerful.
      The ordinary man keeps reaching for power;
      Thus he never has enough.

      The Master does nothing,
      Yet leaves nothing undone.
      The ordinary man is always doing things,
      Yet many more things are left to be done.

      The kind man does something,
      Yet something remains undone
      The just man does something,
      And leaves many things to be done.
      The moral man does something,
      And when no one responds
      He rolls up his sleeves and uses force.

      When the Tao is lost, there is goodness.
      When goodness is lost, there is morality.
      When morality is lost, there is ritual.
      Ritual is the husk of true faith,
      The beginning of chaos.

      Therefore the Master concerns himself
      With the depths and not the surface,
      With the fruit and not the flower.
      He has no will of his own.
      He dwells in reality,
      And lets all illusion go.”

      That second to last verse, the following backwards of effect and stages of decline are echoed in the other famous Book of Changes, which precedes our modern Leftist ideas that there is a reason for everything, by a long way; that nothing is simple, and that there is only the point where you stop looking. Unfortunately, Taoism also condemns statistics completely as an idiocy.

      And the final example, with the dry humour and realism that many of the verses hold:

      Governing a large country is like frying a small fish.
      You spoil it too much with poking.

      Centre your country in the Tao
      And evil will have no power.
      Not that it isn’t there,
      But you’ll be able to step out of its way.

      Give evil nothing to oppose
      And it will disappear by itself.”

      Or as you put it: “… shutting off the blood supply to the greedy parasites.”

  14. joe90 14
    21 May 2012 at 4:27 pm

    Richard Wolff, Professor of Economics,University of Massachusetts: The Costs of Capitalism’s Crisis: Who Will Pay.

    (YouTube: 1.35.01)

  15. joe90 15
    21 May 2012 at 4:56 pm

    Fifty one percent local ownership, Mugabe style.

  17. Pascal's bookie 17
    21 May 2012 at 5:23 pm

    That Louis Crimp chappie from down south, who gave 100K+ to ACT to “do somethng about the maoris” who are “full of welfare and crime”, and who ACT now say they think says offensive things but they’ll take his money, (given to achieve offensive things), anyway…

    … will be on Campbell live tonight, even though he didn’t know the camera was rolling.

    • weka 17.1
      21 May 2012 at 7:25 pm

      “… will be on Campbell live tonight, even though he didn’t know the camera was rolling.”
       
      Like shooting fish in a barrel.
       
      ” not a native tree, but a nice English tree like an oak” lol. That reporter was very good.
       
      (Crimp had asked her if she had ever had sex against a tree)

      • Hateatea 17.1.1
        22 May 2012 at 12:14 am

        It is enough to make a person embarrassed to have even walked the same streets as he did!
        I have looked in vain for the $500,000,000.00 that he says is going into finding Te Reo but if we are cutting Māori Language funding even though it is a legal language of this country, then I presume that monies dedictaed to the teaching of English and NZ Sign will also be cut freeing up that funding for something else?!
        The man is an idiot and a bully. I notice that he has threatened that he will not fund Act if they  don’t make the abolition of Te Reo funding a non-negotiable. That is what he did to Stadium Southland Trust vis a vis the acknowledgment of ILT funding for the project. ILT has poured far more money into the Invercargill community than Louis Crimp ever will but the trustees gave into his blackmail. It will be interesting to see how Act respond

  18. Vicky32 18
    21 May 2012 at 7:20 pm

    I saw that, and now I see why the Hell Pizza owners decided to approach Clive to put their case and refused to appear on Sunday on TV1…
    The interviewer on Clive are giving the owner a sympathetic ear, she’s oozing with sweet kind questions (no hard ones) and it’s obvious why he chose to refuse Sunday and appear on Clive, after all, how many times has TV 3 ever criticised business men?

  19. felix 19
    21 May 2012 at 7:21 pm

    Alright, who left their tags on the stairs?

  21. searching 21
    21 May 2012 at 9:24 pm

    and who is Susan English’s brother in law??

    SOUTHERN EQUITIES LIMITED (156001)
    Shareholders in Allocation:
    Allocation 1:13333334 shares

    Susan Joy ENGLISH
    22 Vera Street, Karori, Wellington 6012 , New Zealand

    Rex Thomas CHAPMAN
    42 Don Street, Invercargill 9810 , New Zealand

    James Bartholomew HENNESSY
    345 Bainfield Road, Rd 2, Invercargill, 9872 , New Zealand

    Louis Mervyn CRIMP
    164 Mill Road South, No 1 R D, Invercargill 9871 , New Zealand

  22. Anthony 22
    21 May 2012 at 11:23 pm

    Don Brash was one of the few hopes for New Zealand he said at the time about 5 years ago it would be harder than the second world war to get New Zealand to a Growing sustainable country catching up with Australia. That was over 5 years ago and he was ignored along with many of Acts initial policy’s. So if was as hard as war then well.

    The Solution is:

    I really see it, first we need pleading to international help to help us recover and get international aid. We need to outsource Government departments such as entire health sector to Australia to administer. We need to have boarder-less “passport free” crossing to Australia, common currency just for start.

    We then need to remove RMA completely and privatize the Building Department and all associated acts.

    Sell the entire Tertiary Education sector.

    Reduce income tax to 10%

    Removed GST of all food, and basic living items.

    Introduce Capital gains tax

    Sell parts or New Zealand to Europe and America allowing them to create cities such as a French city in South island ran and administered by France.

    Increase school standards. (Longer Day- Real economic teaching learn anther language from early on.)

    Remove the treaty of Wiatangi form many government items.

    Put some Politicians in jail. ( And look at performance pay- Electronic Elections on the internet).

    Write a CONSTITUTION based on the American.

    Removed number of MPs make it 99 and fix MMP i.e. party percent list choice elected from public.

    Remove Government Standards: i.e allow cheap quality small electric cars on road. Allow Insurance companies to take risk analysis – not Government
    Increase tax on alcohol. Also other government arbitrary standards which may not have cost benefit logical ratio.

    Sell some roads completely.

    Remove many testing and certification schemes.

    Reduce all fines by 50%

    Sell ACC and allow privatization and suing

    Removed 50% of Government Agency’s and ministry’s.

    Stop putting money in the Rugby industry.

    Sue the transport minister for spending millionths on motorways for the Roading Lobby.

    Invest in heavy public transport and bike lanes for the big city’s.

    Gee its going to be hard for someone.

    • Draco T Bastard 22.1
      22 May 2012 at 12:07 am

      Right, so your solution to the problem is more of the same?

      I’ll put it this way: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

      • Anthony 22.1.1
        22 May 2012 at 1:30 am

        Don’t think we’ve really tried it Draco at all National are just keeping the same old Labour Policies but doing things slower with the exception of Motorway Lust.

        Key always said Don Brash and Roger Douglas policies where unworkable and extreme. Well perhaps we need some “extreme” stuff to get NZ on track.

        • Colonial Viper 22.1.1.1
          22 May 2012 at 1:38 am

          Driving NZ off a cliff is extreme, but it won’t get us back on track.

          Giving every NZer a decent wage is the way to get us back on track. We print the money, we implement a CGT, we implement an FTT and we implement a 0.5% pa wealth tax to pay for it.

          Capital which leaves the country for reasons other than the facilitation of direct trade is also taxed.

          Oh yeah, the nationalisation of core economic infrastructure back into public and community ownership and control.

          Extreme enough for you?

          • Anthony 22.1.1.1.1
            22 May 2012 at 1:59 am

            Not really Colonial that extreme – good to see you thinking. Printing credit is well overdue- absolutely Should funded some council projects for a few years.

            Basically one side of the economic philosophy here is to allow quicker and rapid exchange of service and expertise between citizens of this country without third-party holdups and Government intervention. This is probably one of the quickest ways to allow society to exchange goods services and find a natural system which benefits all parties.

            Allowing business to open run services people want rapidly. (Super Rapid – Houses built in a week sort of fast) In fact no building consents, all done on buyer choice buyer insurance schemes and “enforced” contract law.

            So you could quickly find the service you are best to aid society with and also reap rewards of other diligent members of the commerce community for a price your happy with.

            We’re all adults we don’t need Government checking every transaction and business idea to make sure they fit all governments rules and regulations.

            • Draco T Bastard 22.1.1.1.1.1
              22 May 2012 at 2:12 am

              Ah, a libertarian or, in other words, someone who’s all for oppressing the majority of people. Yes, that is the result of the BS you peddle.

              A major reason why we have regulation is so that everyone is working with the best knowledge. We all adults, yes, we’re not all omniscient gods. The consent process is there to ensure that houses are built to best standards (well, that’s the theory unfortunately the government seems to have forgotten that and set minimum standards well bellow what they should be). If you remove those standards and remove the process to ensure those standards then what we will have would be a situation much worse than the leaking homes saga and no one would be accountable for it. People would start a business, make millions and then, as soon as trouble looked like it was starting, liquidate the business.

              We’re a democracy so government happens to be us, what we call government is actually our administrative arm and, like all administration, it’s needed. Unfortunately, idiots like you go round telling people that our needed administration is evil.

              • Anthony …
                22 May 2012 at 2:45 am

                I’ll think about what you wrote for a while.

                “People would start a business, make millions and then, as soon as trouble looked like it was starting, liquidate the business.”

                That’s what happens now.

                Perhaps under contract law, when you purchase a Product you look to see if they have a long history and perhaps their underwriters.

                And perhaps even write and agreement which binds your purchase to the personal seller of the product and not the business. ( guess in Contract Law you could write any terms and conditions in you wanted, as long as you both agree and sign off on it.)

                In fact business models could start which take care of purchasing contracts and could even insure the product as security. Sort of like Safeseller on trademe

                They way I see it things get more and more interesting and more productive and harmonious in Libertarian economics.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  22 May 2012 at 7:47 am

                  They way I see it things get more and more interesting and more productive and harmonious in Libertarian economics.

                  LOL, no, they get more litigious and most people can’t afford the lawyers required to help negotiate the contracts or enforce the contracts that are signed.

              • Anthony …
                22 May 2012 at 2:46 am

                ..

    • Colonial Viper 22.2
      22 May 2012 at 12:17 am

      Anthony – thanks for your random assortment of unworkable, nation destroying fantasies.

    • Carol 22.3
      22 May 2012 at 7:49 am

      outsourcing government departments to Australia? Really. I heard on RNZ in the last few days that some Australian states are complaining that they aren’t given equal treatment nationally with the bigger more powerful states like NSW. I think it’s to do with being given less funding and consideration in policies.

      And you think NZ wouldn’t be undermined by any Australian-based governance of NZ?

      Ditto for any control of cities by French or US interests – it would open these cities to yet more plundering by wealthy and powerful overseas interests.

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