Open mike 27/10/2012

61 comments on “Open mike 27/10/2012 ”

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1. Logie97 1

   27 October 2012 at 6:48 am

   Once there was a proud nation which lead the world in so many ways.

   A few to remember …
   . first to have all adults voting.
   . welfare state to look after its disadvantaged.
   . in the vanguard of anti-apartheid movement.
   . stopped the atmospheric weapon testing in the Pacific and then championed the anti-nuclear movement and gave hope to many other nations.
   . developed an independent foreign policy.
   . introduced an ETS scheme.
   . developed a world leading education system.

   But what leadership has it had since 2008?

   Well for starters,
   . a PM who believed we were missing in action in Iraq, and has now managed to all but completely trade away any independence.
   . gutted the ETS scheme.
   . demoralised the education sector

   Add to the list as you feel …
   • tinfoilhat 1.1

     27 October 2012 at 7:16 am

     Key and his band of crooks should be tried for treason.
     • marsman 1.1.1

       27 October 2012 at 8:55 am

       tinfoilhat. Yes Key and his crooks should be tried for treason AND stripped of any entitlements like Parliamentary Pension and Free Travel. AND definitely no knighthoods. AND never be referred to as The Honourable.
       • Jackal 1.1.1.1

         27 October 2012 at 6:14 pm

         It’s going to be a 50 50 whether a future government allows the investigation into any impropriety on the part of the current administration… Don’t hold your breath.
         • prism 1.1.1.1.1

           27 October 2012 at 8:15 pm

           Politics today. In Italy Berlusconi has had 33 cases brought against him. It’s only the last one that has gone against him and he is gobsmacked. He also got the law changed so that over 70s can’t be jailed.

           Mind you they had it coming to them – they let a media magnate in to the job and wiped the controls to prevent cross-media ownership. He has floated along since then pleasing himself and self promoting. If you don’t demand good results from pollies then you get things you never had the guts to wish for. Have we guts in nz or not? Or are we waiting for a party that has guts to inspire us for a better nz?
   • kiwicommie 1.2

     27 October 2012 at 7:47 am

     – raised GST to 15% to hurt the poor; which also forces people to spend less (less money to spend on luxury items and New Zealand made goods) hurting small business
     – introduced charter schools (where teachers need not be trained, and where creationism is king)
     – introduced draconian surveillance and copyright laws
     – made New Zealand the puppet of foreign interest groups i.e. raid on Kim Dotcom
     – worked hard to increase child poverty, inequality, push down incomes and raise unemployment
     – did nothing to get the dollar down so forced businesses to close down or move to China
     – cannibalized the welfare system so no one can get help (including rape victims)
     – made student loans harder to get and increased fees; thus forcing more across the ditch
     – did nothing to stop New Zealand’s rising suicide rate i.e. listen to radio live at 11:00 pm onwards
     – eliminated privacy i.e. a politician can just pick up a W&I file and read it for political purposes

     If you need help from the government we know now that the only way to get help is to go on a hunger strike for 30 days or more; because they don’t care about people, only the votes they may lose for not helping someone that has gone to the media. Where is the ‘brighter future’ John?
   • marsman 1.3

     27 October 2012 at 8:58 am

     Logie97.
     Strangling Kiwirail.
     Wasting money on unnecessary roads.
     • ianmac 1.3.1

       27 October 2012 at 9:32 am

       Looks like the coastal rail Picton to Christchurch Passengers will disappear and the Christchurch to Greymouth Alpine passenger line.
       • marsman 1.3.1.1

         27 October 2012 at 10:02 am

         They could try doubling the price of fares as they have done for the Wellington to Auckland train. But seriously…….
         • ianmac 1.3.1.1.1

           27 October 2012 at 1:43 pm

           I think that the Coastal rail fare is going up from about $60 to $100-180. Pricing to kill the market?
           • marsman 1.3.1.1.1.1

             27 October 2012 at 3:22 pm

             Pricing to kill Kiwirail, the passenger service especially and probably Kiwirail in total e,g. the Napier-Gisborne rail link is to be stopped. As Minister of Railways Richard Prebble had an arsehole appointed as CEO of then NZRail to do similar damage as the current one appointed by National is doing.
           • Jim Nald 1.3.1.1.1.2

             27 October 2012 at 3:26 pm

             In the meantime, you can fly AKL to WEL, vice versa, for $29.
             Or $7.
             Waahaahaa.
           • Vicky32 1.3.1.1.1.3

             29 October 2012 at 12:47 am

             I think that the Coastal rail fare is going up from about $60 to $100-180. Pricing to kill the market?

             My niece was just complaining about that on Facebook! (She’s the carer for her brother’s kids, and wanted to take them on a trip).
   • Luva 1.4

     27 October 2012 at 9:19 am

     Well from an international perspective (i.e. not those narrow minded Kiwi’s who continue to ignore the daily international economic storms) New Zealand is leading the world. In fact some have singled out New Zealand alone as the model for its balanced approach to the deepening international debt crisis.

     Peter Orszag I think was the man to have made this claim.

     I went searching and can’t actually find any international criticism of how the New Zealand government is managing and showing leadership through the double whammy of a major city rebuild during the worst economic meltdown in a generation.

     The worst international economic year that Cullen and Clark had to govern through was still infinitley better than any year Key and English have had to manage. Blind Freddy could have governed through the 9 Clark years, those years when the world went on a debt fuelled spend up of anything and everything.
     • Dr Terry 1.4.1

       27 October 2012 at 7:44 pm

       Luva – it is hardly a matter of congratulation to be leading the world as it is today. But, then, we have to take your word for it, don’t we?
     • prism 1.4.2

       28 October 2012 at 10:20 pm

       Luva
       Oh good we can stop thinking for ourselves now – we know our judgment is so poor. We can just listen to what the rest of the world is saying about us and accept that as gospel, doesn’t matter whether it is based on rock hard reality or just hyperbole from the latest political/ economic movement. And always ignoring how the low income people are managing in the business environment that is unhealthy to say the least.
2. David H 2

   27 October 2012 at 8:41 am

   And of course with all that you would expect any decent opposition to make a huge dent in the NACTS numbers. But as usual Mr Stutter Stumblebum, and his merry band of me, me’s, are missing in action. Time for a serious rethink at the top of Labour.
   • muzza 2.1

     27 October 2012 at 9:03 am

     The sooner people accept that our “democracy” is a sham, the sooner people might consider getting of their arse and demanding change, instead of sitting back and hoping the theatre script might change direction!

     Its only going to get worse, that is 100% certain!

     Your complacency is appreciated, and anticipated!

     Sincerely

     Your local (controlled) MP
3. KhandallahMan 3

   27 October 2012 at 9:19 am

   +1. First giggle of the day.

   “Mr Stutter Stumblebum, and his merry band”
4. Te Reo Putake 4

   27 October 2012 at 9:23 am

   Calculating the seats suggested by yesterday’s Roy Morgan gives an interesting result. Assuming that ACT, UF and the Maori Party retain their current seats, the current Government totals 61 seats in a 123 seat Parliament. Labour/Greens/NZF also total 61 and Hone Harawira gets to be kingmaker.
    
   National 55, MP 4 (one list), UF, ACT, Mana 1 each. NZF 9, Greens 16, Labour 36.
    
   However, if National win Epsom, then the right bloc loses a seat and it totals 60 in a 122 seat parliament. Any improvement at all in the current opposition bloc just stretches the gap. As I noted yesterday, it’s far easier for Labour to lift their results than it is for National. And it looks like the Conservatives are just going to be a spoiler for National, draining votes from the right, but never likely to make the threshold.
   • muzza 4.1

     27 October 2012 at 9:38 am

     Is there an election today!
   • Lanthanide 4.2

     27 October 2012 at 9:40 am

     Unless the threshold is dropped to 4%, in which case they have a good chance of getting in, and NZFirst is almost certain to as well.

     I also think on those results, that an NZFirst – Nat coalition is the easiest ruling majority.
     • Te Reo Putake 4.2.1

       27 October 2012 at 9:50 am

       I really don’t see NZF going with National, Lanth. There are some pretty big policy differences between them for a start and Winston currently seems determined to avenge his dumping 4 years ago by bringing National down. And seeing Labour, the Greens and NZF at the same table at the EPMU jobs summit sends a positive message that they can work together.
       • ianmac 4.2.1.1

         27 October 2012 at 10:09 am

         Not sure that Winston would let revenge get in the way of power.
       • weka 4.2.1.2

         27 October 2012 at 11:34 am

         Peters can’t be trusted. 2 years is a long time, and he has demonstrated in the past that he is willing to betray even the people that vote for him. The left relying on NZF to form government is almost as stupid as Labour keeping Shearer as leader.

         Still waiting to hear an analysis of how a L/G/NZF/Mana govt would work.
     • Fortran 4.2.2

       27 October 2012 at 1:06 pm

       Must drop to 4% to let Winston back in.
       He will then almost certainly have the balance of power (to whoever promises him personally the most).
       Have to be Foreign Affairs to keep him out of the country as long as possible via Air Force flights in which he can smoke, as no civilian ones will.
   • Dr Terry 4.3

     27 October 2012 at 7:47 pm

     TPP – you really think National needs to lift their results, which given everything, are astonishingly high?
     • Te Reo Putake 4.3.1

       27 October 2012 at 10:31 pm

       Yep, Doc. National need to lift their vote to compensate for the weakness of their allies. There are no guarantees that ACT, UF and the MP will retain their current seats, so the Nats have to cover the gap. 47-48% is an outright win. 45-46% leaves them needing a hand up. Less than that and only Winston can save them.
5. muzza 5

   27 October 2012 at 9:37 am

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10843146

   Bryan Gaynor, WFT are you on????
   • Draco T Bastard 5.1

     27 October 2012 at 11:42 am

     Most of what he says isn’t that bad until he gets to this bit:

     The report had this to say about farm finance: “Farmers face significant challenges in raising sufficient capital to fund growth and support farm turnover.

     “Farm debt levels are already high and few external sources of equity capital are available to farmers, particularly in Australia,” it said.

     “New structures for owning and operating farms need to be encouraged to attract investment from domestic and foreign investors and capital markets.

     “These structures might include rapidly evolving partnerships, modern variants of share farming and use of off-take agreements, as in the mining sector.”

     Between now and 2050 New Zealand agriculture will require $210 billion of additional capital to generate growth and a further $130 billion will be needed to support the purchase of existing farms from ageing farmers.

     Where he makes the assumption that the only place that capital is available is from over seas at interest. Basically, he’s just another economist that wouldn’t know what an economy was if he tripped over one.
     • muzza 5.1.1

       27 October 2012 at 11:47 am

       Where he makes the assumption that the only place that capital is available is from over seas at interest. Basically, he’s just another economist that wouldn’t know what an economy was if he tripped over one

       Which is why the rest of it, making some sense or not, is irrelevant!
     • Fortran 5.1.2

       27 October 2012 at 1:11 pm

       Understand from Reserve Bank figures that there is around $114 billion invested in (mostly Foreign) Bank Term deposits and the like in New Zealand.
       Kiwisaver has some but only a small share so far, and not earning very much either (nearly all below term deposit rates.)
       If no Asset sales this oney will continue to stay where it is on minimal interest returns, but in safe places.
6. ianmac 6

   27 October 2012 at 9:42 am

   On Kim Hill this morning Dr Ben Goldacre author, broadcaster, medical doctor and academic said that Tamiflu bought all around the world at the cost of billions and billions of dollars has little in the the way of published research/trials. Remember bird-flu precautions? The company marketing Tamiflu has avoided publishing credible research in spite of many requests to do so. If there was good news from the research you would think that the company would rush to publish. The absence of consistent credible trial data seems to spell out one thing. And NZ spent millions and millions as a precaution.
   • Colonial Viper 6.1

     29 October 2012 at 12:54 am

     yeah another pandemic scare, another pharma corporate rip off.
7. muzza 7

   27 October 2012 at 9:50 am

   John Roughman – As an ordinary citizen, I don’t find it offensive that police would fake a prosecution to protect someone’s cover.

   find it harder to credit that a High Court judge would let 21 people off criminal charges to demonstrate judicial indignation.

   Roughmen – The ordinary citizen, happy to tell you how he wants to turn whats left into rubble, and happily so!
   • ianmac 7.1

     27 October 2012 at 10:08 am

     Hope John Roughman never finds himself at the bottom of a very slippery slope.
   • Draco T Bastard 7.2

     27 October 2012 at 12:12 pm

     Man, he is either blind to the truth of what happens when the police break the law with impunity or he’s selling snake-oil. I’m going to bet on the latter.
     • QoT 7.2.1

       27 October 2012 at 12:41 pm

       But obviously the police would never break the law to get an “ordinary citizen” like him. As long as the only natural justice and human rights breaches are happening to Those Kind Of People it’s for the greater good.
     • Jackal 7.2.2

       27 October 2012 at 9:36 pm

       Roughan’s article wasn’t worth the time it took to read it.
   • Murray Olsen 7.3

     27 October 2012 at 12:34 pm

     I think the fake case against the undercover cop should go ahead. Either he does prison time or the police who forged a search warrant and committed perjury do time. If the police agree to take that risk, then let the case against the bikers proceed. It’d probably get thrown out for some other reason anyway, because the police are so arrogant they don’t even bother to do their jobs properly. Oh, and John Roughan’s cryptofascist column is more of a threat to society than any number of outlaw bikers. He’s openly encouraging people (police) to break the law. Will he be charged? He should be.
8. ianmac 8

   27 October 2012 at 10:30 am

   More doubt on Police practices, maybe enough to collapse the extradition plans. Thanks to the on the ball David Fisher:

   Police got personal banking details of Kim Dotcom and his staff without getting a search warrant in a move that has implications for bank customers……….
   ….and received information back the same day from the BNZ showing names of account holders, account numbers and home address details.
   …..Dotcom was charged with money-laundering when arrested – the only charge he faces on which he can be extradited. Criminal copyright violation charges are not serious enough for extradition. If they are dismissed, then the money laundering charge also collapses.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10843215
   • Dv 8.1

     27 October 2012 at 1:10 pm

     I liked this comment
     “The banking industry last night said customer privacy was taken “very seriously” but offered no information about the level of proof needed to turn information over to government agencies.”

     Feel a yeah right comment coming on.
   • Vicky32 8.2

     29 October 2012 at 12:51 am

     Police got personal banking details of Kim Dotcom and his staff without getting a search warrant in a move that has implications for bank customers………

     My giddy aunt…
     As a matter of interest, I have spent days trying to interest Americans on the IMDB message boards in the Dotcom macello. Not one of them could give a monkey’s – I don’t understand why!
9. Draco T Bastard 9

   27 October 2012 at 1:53 pm

   Well, it appears that the oil industry in NZ doesn’t want any public oversight for operating in our waters and that the government is thinking about giving it to them.

   The Government is developing regulations under the new EEZ legislation on which offshore activities should be prohibited, discretionary, which require consent, or are permitted within stated rules.

   Mr Hughes and Forest & Bird were responding to reports Minister for the Environment Amy Adams would not rule out allowing deep-sea drilling as a permitted activity in the act.
   • muzza 9.1

     27 October 2012 at 2:46 pm

     Publicly notified consents should not be required for offshore oil and gas exploration activities within New Zealand’s exclusive economic zone, says the Petroleum Exploration and Production Association.

     Yes they would say that…

     The association’s chief executive, David Robinson, said the topography of New Zealand’s seabed was entirely different to that in the Gulf of Mexico, where the 2010 disaster occurred in 1500m of water. “The terrain and activity of the south is vastly different to the Gulf, which was [oil under] high pressure and high temperature.”

     He noted the Great South Basin and Canterbury Basin, which may be hosting an exploration drill ship in about a year, were “more than likely gas prospects” rather than oil.

     Because its been known what oil is in the GSB for a very long time already!

     While he said there would always be “residual risk” to any drilling programme, it was “very unlikely New Zealand would ever have any problems drilling around its coastlines”.

     Phew thats good then, risk acceptance = check!

     He likened the risk mitigation to that of Air New Zealand, where commercial aircraft had crashed but Air New Zealand maintained theirs to the highest standard possible.

     But not at the expense of profits though….good to get that cleared up!
10. millsy 10

    27 October 2012 at 2:09 pm

    I see the school principals are screaming blue bloody murder because they wont be able to have drug dogs go through students school bags and essentially run their schools like mini police states.

    God forbid that students should have any protections from unreasonable search and seizure. From a young age they are being taught that the authorities can go through your possessions and invade your privacy and more or less treat you like a common criminal.
11. millsy 11

    27 October 2012 at 2:14 pm

    300 Tongans march against the right of consenting adults to arrange their own relationships. Someone needs to get the message through to them that they are filthy homophobes.
12. gobsmacked 12

    27 October 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Here’s a fun quiz for the weekend.

    Find out who you should vote for in the US presidential election …

    http://www.isidewith.com/presidential-election-quiz

    Hints – if the choice is too limted, click on the “other” option, more choices available.

    Picking Obama over Romney is easy, but you might be surprised how you align with other candidates.
    • millsy 12.1

      27 October 2012 at 2:26 pm

      Ive got the Green candidate, Jill Stein…
      • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1

        27 October 2012 at 2:42 pm

        Yep, me too.

        That’s actually a good test and someone should probably do something similar for NZ. I think a lot of NZers would be surprised with who they actually agree with.
        • Jim Nald 12.1.1.1

          27 October 2012 at 2:55 pm

          If I take another position and type in ‘mmm’, ‘aah’, ‘uhh’ and the like, might Shearer pop up as the choice of presidential candidate?
          Guitar is good. Must put guitar in there.
        • RedBaron 12.1.1.2

          27 October 2012 at 4:14 pm

          And Me. 96% for Jill Stein. I’m sure I read somewhere of a survey taken a couple of years ago that getting people to vote on blind policy tests gave green policy the overwhelming thumbs up.
          So it seems that most of us fall into the group labeled “we know that there is only a finite amount to share and we’d like to share fairly equally.”
        • mickysavage 12.1.1.3

          27 October 2012 at 6:38 pm

          Me too! Hmmm …
      • Pete 12.1.2

        27 October 2012 at 6:40 pm

        Likewise. 91% Jill Stein, 84% Barack Obama. If I had a vote in America, I might consider Stein and hope for eventual electoral reform, but were I in a swing state I’d go with Obama.
      • Vicky32 12.1.3

        29 October 2012 at 12:52 am

        Ive got the Green candidate, Jill Stein…

        Me too!
    • coolas 12.2

      27 October 2012 at 4:06 pm

      thanks for that .. Stein 94%, Romney 11%, Obama 68%, but he was bottom last .. curious!
13. BLiP 13

    27 October 2012 at 6:07 pm

    .

    Oh, noes!!!! Its all over for Obama.

    ; )
14. Jackal 14

    27 October 2012 at 6:14 pm

    Pathetic fine for Rena disaster

    Another judge has got it wrong! How topical is that?
    • muzza 14.1

      27 October 2012 at 6:53 pm

      Yeah saw that – Not sure I agree with the got it wrong statement..

      Again its a question of representation, and whom is representing, whom, or what!
    • muzza 14.2

      27 October 2012 at 7:34 pm

      But the people of Denedin get to pay the equivilent of what the maximum fine for Rena would have been of over 600k in severance money…Lets see then..

      Rena disaster fine 300K (half of max fine)

      Total cost to “The Crown” of Rena Estimated at 47m, ..but…

      “As a result of “extended and co-operative negotiations” the defendant and its insurers had agreed to compensate the Crown 27.6m ”

      So thats a loss to “The Crown” of 20m – I’m sure QE2 will be happy to eat that loss won’t she eh!

      Dunedin Council severence payouts 628,513,

      In Summary

      1: People of Dunedin have to eat job just payouts worth 2 x the Rena fine (will their rates come down now)

      2: People of NZ get to eat the 20m loss on the Rena situation (not sure the breakdown)

      3: People of Tauranga, and eastern coast get to eat the delayed fallout of – Rena chemicals at sea worry scientists

      There is some twisted goings on in this country, that is for sure!
    • Draco T Bastard 14.3

      27 October 2012 at 9:01 pm

      Fairly typical in a capitalist society – save the capitalists by throwing the workers under the bus.

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