Open mike 29/08/2023

38 comments on “Open mike 29/08/2023 ”

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1. bwaghorn 1

   29 August 2023 at 7:16 am

   Willis is teasing new taxs to pay for tax cuts??

   What's the odds poor people are about to pay??
   • Tiger Mountain 1.1

     29 August 2023 at 7:28 am

     Classic…a “Catch 22” for the 21st century…to have tax cuts, first you must pay more tax–but–as you pose, who is going to pay and who is going to benefit.
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.1

       29 August 2023 at 8:54 am

       Willis…..

       "The public service have shared with me that they think that the government has been very lax in its management of taxpayers money. They have shared with me that they think that there is a lot of waste across the system, and that it would start with ministers being clear about what they actually want to achieve – something that has been sorely lacking from the Labour cabinet."

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/496775/government-spending-cuts-don-t-go-far-enough-national-act

       Ol' Nic…IMO a snake. Straight up : Ive never liked her….I reckon she's got more than a bit of "Ruthless" Ruth Richardson about her…

       Fark having those NAct slime in power again. The clock would turn back..very quickly.

       We must fight back to stop them.
       • Anne 1.1.1.1

         29 August 2023 at 9:44 am

         "The public service have shared with me…"

         Oh, so now we know what we already knew in private. The Nats have their stooges planted in the Public Service. Be assured that is nothing new. They've been there since God made little apples. I can attest to that.

         As for the rest of her statement… they've been pushing that meme/soundbite for months. They shared it with themselves.
         • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.1.1.1

           29 August 2023 at 9:54 am

           Yea I pretty much knew there be a fair proportion of "Govt employees" would be right wing (IMO MSD, Armed Forces, Police etc) And yea you having been there..nothing be different now…,

           Their "political leanings"..no problem…its what they do with it.
           • Scud 1.1.1.1.1.1

             29 August 2023 at 12:36 pm

             I take offence to your comment!

             Not all members of the Police, Prison Service NZDF are Right Wing Supporters most actually vote Labour than National.

             Me personally I would vote Green, but the Greens Defence Policy is written by a bunch clowns who haven't done a days Peacekeeping/ Peace Stabilisation in their life and I doubt these Muppets would even read the AWM Official History on INTERFET which the Australian DFAT tried to get banned from being published!

             "Born of Fire & Ash, Australia Operations in to the East Timor crisis 1999-2000."

             Vol 1.

             Official History of Australia Peacekeeping Operations in East Timor.

             By Craig Stockings.

             It's got a fair bit of the NZ Naval Task Group incl actions on by the Frigates with the TNI Airforce attacks & those 2 Type 209 Subs.

             RNZAF Air Group & NZ Army NZ Batt1 especially when the over the Beach Landing at Suai went tits up.

             Highly recommended for anyone especially those who advocate for a Peacekeeping style Defence Force.
             • Psyclingleft.Always …

               29 August 2023 at 12:43 pm

               Matey, I was not intending to offend you…or other Left supporting members of NZ Armed Forces etc. I have/had Family members in same. Sorry if that was your impression.

               Hence why I wrote….

               a fair proportion

               Anyone who has previously read my comments on NZ's Services…will know I have supported their Service.
               • Shanreagh …

                 29 August 2023 at 1:41 pm

                 I had 40 odd years in the NZ PS.

                 And while political talk was very limited, because of being apolitical, I would have said the proportions supporting Labour in their private lives was exactly the opposite to what you are saying. Many more supported Labour than National.

                 This supports to an extent the ethos of the PS that was more about greater good than making money salary-wise. I know when I joined the PS was one of the few work places, perhaps the only one, where there were no special rates or limitations on what women could do. This was such a relief as I had spent several holidays working in factories that had special women’s rates, no overtime for women etc trying to save for uni fees etc while any male was able to get jobs in the same factories doing the same jobs for about twice the money.

                 My ex husband who was in the RNZN in the 1970s said those who did support National were fully aware that, paradoxically, they got a better deals in pay & materiel when Labour was in.
                 • Psyclingleft.Always …

                   29 August 2023 at 3:49 pm

                   Hi. Yet again, I said..

                   a fair proportion

                   And..as you say that is your experience. Fair enough.
                   • Shanreagh …

                     30 August 2023 at 10:03 am

                     a fair proportion

                     Again an unquantifiable smear.

                     Hopefully we are not going to get much more of this slagging off at public servants who traditionally are not able to defend themselves.

                     PS work for the govt that is in power. Their personal thoughts and preferences are immaterial though as in any workplace the wider the talent pool or the community that PS are drawn from the better.

                     I would actually be interested in which departments that you worked in had these opinionated employees that let their personal opinions colour their day to day work and advice to their Minister.

                     What you hear over a beer and barbeque bears no relation to the apolitical work public/govt servants (as a former PS etc you will be aware of the difference) do in their day to day work.

                     I left in 2017 finally……at the end of my time I was not aware of any political stuff but of how much the PS had gone back in its support for women including bad mouthing, unchecked dirty joke telling, higher hills for women to climb etc.

                     I don't believe that in 6 years since I left the public service it has become a hot bed of political ideologies.
                 • Anne …

                   29 August 2023 at 4:57 pm

                   Your experience Shanreagh was not mine. I was with the Public Service in one capacity or another for 35 years. But I left the Service 30 years ago.

                   It wasn't colleagues so much as the management team. They were inclined to take it out on anyone who were supporters of Labour. It was no coincidence that these people found themselves near the bottom of the promotion list – as if they considered such political ideology was unsuited to senior positions. And women in that category even less so…

                   Some of the blame lay in the remnants of the Cold War years where anyone to the left of Genghis Khan was presumed to be Communist.
   • Tricledrown 1.2

     29 August 2023 at 10:08 am

     About to pay we are already paying for huge windfall profits from the corporate world.Causing 55% of inflation. Come on Hipkins and Greens windfall profits demand windfall taxes while everyone else in NZ is doing it tough with nearly 60% of the population not able to pay all their bills these Corporate grifters are making record profits then blaming it on govt spending.National wheeling out tax cuts that will leave a few crumbs on the table while the Rich get rewarded after already making billions in tax free Capital Gains paying less taxes than beneficiaries. Nationals history has always been give a little teaser tax cut for the.middle income swing voter and much more to the already very well off.But like under Key we will increase spending on Health every year but not adjusted for inflation or population growth effectively cutting health spending by more than 20%.Luton has wheeled out the same old spin we will increase health spending every year but no detail like match inflation or population growth let alone the cost of a rapidly aging population.Hipkins and the Greens need to remind voters of Nationals history of continually cutting health,education,police,Defence etc.
   • Watchful 1.3

     30 August 2023 at 4:54 am

     I personally don't see tax cuts happening (short term) under a change of government. Robertson's eleventh hour ploy to voters that he is fiscally competent smells of another Labour party success story (Phil Goff) when he left the Auckland mayoral.

     I predict if/when National take power and the veil of secrecy and spin is lifted that the extent of financial incompetence will be unmasked. It is not going to be pretty for NZ and will take many years and political terms to steer the ship away from the rocks (again).
     • Anne 1.3.1

       30 August 2023 at 10:06 am

       Your mentally challenged and ignorant bull headedness is on show for all to see.
       • Shanreagh 1.3.1.1

         30 August 2023 at 10:22 am

         Do we now not allow people to have opinions that are different to ours?

         Then rather than debating the opinion we call their pyschological competence into question.

         I find that sad.
         • Anne 1.3.1.1.1

           30 August 2023 at 5:05 pm

           There's a chasm between "an opinion different to one's own" and mindless trolling. "Watchful" indicated clearly in his second paragraph he was doing the latter.

           I didn't know being 'mentally challenged' called into question one's psychological state. One can be psychologically sound but still be brainless.
     • Shanreagh 1.3.2

       30 August 2023 at 10:31 am

       You have all sorts of predictions there Watchful.

       My prediction is that should the Nats get in, heaven forbid, they will find all sorts of magnified 'things that have gone wrong' that are unquantifiable/unjustifiable matters of opinion that will give the Nats the free rein to introduce austerity measures that will set NZ and its people back by years.

       If it is not this, then it will be some 'dry as' initiatives like the Neo- lib schemozzle, selling off of what remains of the family silver, that NZ is still recovering from all these years later.

       We have an open set of books etc and I very much doubt if there are secret sets of accounts that will send 'shock horror' through the populace.
2. Tiger Mountain 2

   29 August 2023 at 7:21 am

   Micky Savage’s “Be Afraid…” piece yesterday was most apt. The USA clearly illustrates what can happen to women's reproductive rights for example, when fruitcakes of various stripes hook up with religious nutters and authoritarian inclined politicians.

   It is a class issue obviously too–as per signalled NActFirst attacks on the public sector, minimum wage, PPL, renters!, ECA MkII union busting…

   Another attack on the NZ working class unfortunately comes from Labour itself. The NZLP is not helping its electoral case one little bit with Robbo clinging to a revered neo lib mantra…debt must not exceed 30% of GDP…bollocks if you check out the debt level ratios of other OECD countries, though the COVID period did change things. Bastion of world capitalism the US, is sitting on debt at 144% of GDP in a graph in link below.

   https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-government-debt.htm

   Who does NZ Labour seek to impress–swing voters, finance capital & its crawlers–or the bulk of the NZ population, working class and middle class?
   • Patricia Bremner 2.1

     29 August 2023 at 9:06 am

     Tiger Mountain, I think it is to indicate to the Public that Government (Labour) is being as fair as possible while bringing down inflation.

     They are indicating the cost of any further cuts would be unaffordable and cost jobs.

     bwaghorn is correct, if Willis and Nat/Act take the 11billion needed for tax cuts, it would lead to a spiral of job losses asset losses as the moneyed swoop in to buy up cheaply.

     In true style the Nacts will create a case for private profit and public taxpayer top up.

     Voting out this Government might mean those grumpy at lock downs vaccinations and general restrictions, believing the sponsored rants about crime, believing the Government has not done enough may find the change would make them worse off.

     We get reports of huge earnings by some sectors who want the Public to believe their massive price rises stem from wages costs but never greed.

     We have been dealing with nature, volatile oil prices, supply line failures, war impacts and geopolitical pressures, plus the world orgs chiming in with "advice" along with Treasury's failure to read the tea leaves, meanwhile Willis says we can have tax cuts. Yeah right!! Pull the other one.!! What will get removed?

     The truth is a mix of higher costs lower earnings more careful spending and a banking credit crunch causing lesser tax take leading to a revised spend in the budget

     The arrogant behaviour by some media inferring the election is already won rather than discussing policies is unhelpful, and muddies the waters.

     I am pleased to see some asking probing questions and seeking answers not pat replies. Who are these candidates? What do they believe?
   • mikesh 2.2

     29 August 2023 at 10:47 am

     The government could take its deficit beyond the 30% “debt limitation” by using fiat money to cover some of its deficit. Providing the deficit is matched by production thee shouldn't be any inflation.
     • Ed1 2.2.1

       29 August 2023 at 9:14 pm

       We may have a lower level of government debt than most countries, but commentators often refer to the high debt levels of companies – and my impression is that we are more prepared to support companies through temporary problems like Covid and floods and slips. My thinking is that some support should be given by buying shares at less than an assessed market value for some companies, including foreign owned companies, but the unwinding could then be difficult.
3. PsyclingLeft.Always 3

   29 August 2023 at 9:18 am

   "Maybe" part of "our" NZ debt is due in part to this..

   For example, gambling giant SkyCity reported a 60 per cent drop in normalised profits, but still made $66.3m. This was considerably boosted by $31.1m contributed by various government wage subsidy schemes. The same story is true of retirement village operator Summerset, which took a wage subsidy of $8.7m, before announcing an interim profit to June 30 of $45m, down just 5 per cent on the previous year. Foley Wines, run by Trump mega-donor Bill Foley, nearly doubled its profit to $6.9m, despite claiming a wage subsidy of more than $600,000.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-some-of-nzs-biggest-businesses-are-making-huge-profits-thanks-to-the-wage-subsidy/ROIMHEWMKXGBRJFUMWNDZIWTVM/

   IMO they….and their like (how many more?!) , should have been obliged to pay it back!

   Whining Business'…has never actually stopped making money….through any "downturn". Its all BS.
4. Ad 4

   29 August 2023 at 9:59 am

   Impressive that Robertson is leaving it to public service chiefs to find the headcount cuts so he can get to $4billion of savings.

   I expect Act will remind him that he could always start with the Human Rights Commission, Ministry for Women, Ministry of Ethnic Affairs, Ministry of Pacific Island Affairs, and keep going into Te Puni Kokiri, Maori Language Commission and the rest.

   Don't like the idea of random unspecified headcount cuts.
   • bwaghorn 4.1

     29 August 2023 at 10:54 am

     Just sounds like more whacka mole with national to me, ,
   • alwyn 4.2

     29 August 2023 at 1:54 pm

     I suggest the the Human Rights Commission and the Ministry for Women, as you label them, wouldn't be missed in the slightest. If Bob Jones is to be believed the only trouble you would have would be finding the people to tell them that they are no longer required. They are, according to Bob, Working from Home.

     Closing these Agencies would have another advantage. We could stop paying anything to Jones for rental of his buildings to provide the unused Office Space.

     There a great way to kill two bids with one stone. (I hope nobody reports me to the police for using a phrase that might be interpreted as advocating killing protected species. I am not Nga Puhi leader Sonny Tau).

     https://nopunchespulled.com/2023/08/25/working-from-home-2/
     • AB 4.2.1

       29 August 2023 at 3:01 pm

       If Bob Jones is to be believed

       Lovely joke there Alwyn – your best yet. Bob Jones, as readers as old as me may recall, once wrote a stupid, detestable novel called Full Circle: a Modern Morality Tale. In it, a scientist, (scientists are disparagingly referred to as "beards") is ridiculed as an exemplar of extravagant and wasteful government spending because he is paid to go to Antarctica to study penguin sh*t.

       Why did an oaf like Jones write this pretend novel? I have two theories and I think both are true:

       • he was jealous that his much younger brother Lloyd, who is a genuine literary talent, was so celebrated while Bob's feeble attempts at writing did not receive similar critical acclaim (to put it mildly.) He unfortunately proved the critics right by trying to prove them wrong.
       • he was so stupid that he did not realise that penguin sh*t might tell you what penguins ate, and therefore what was in the ocean and in what relative abundance year to year. and that this data might be correlated with other information like (oh I don't know) maybe sea temperature variations, ice cover or reported commercial fish catches.

       In the current context of dying emperor penguin chicks due to Antarctic sea ice loss, this blessedly forgotten 'novel' only reinforces how many of the climate problems we are beginning to face are due to the negligence and selfishness of daft old dudes like Bob Jones. Every statement he makes should be treated as risible by default.
       • alwyn 4.2.1.1

         29 August 2023 at 7:31 pm

         You would appear to have read Bob's work, so it certainly wasn't completely unheeded.

         On the other hand Bob wasn't jealous of his brother's success. It was he who insisted that Lloyd should, like Bob himself, go to University. He also thought that his brother should do an Arts degree, rather than a trade school qualification. In order to encourage that Bob, who is about 15 years older than his brother and was already wealthy paid him a quite generous salary to go there.

         To be fair Sir Robert has some faults. He is a friend of Trevor Mallard and was a generous donor to Trevor's Political campaigns. God knows why.
5. Ffloyd 5

   29 August 2023 at 10:28 am

   So happy to see post from PLA. I had just been wondering this morning about the very same thing. How many companies managed to root this system even though abundantly clear they probably didn’t need it. Did many of these grifters pay back any of these subsidies when they opened up (never closed down) for business. I bet not many if any. We had a very small lawn mowing business which we could not work in at the time because of lockdown. We were refused puddly little subsidy because business is in joint name and IRD and Winz between could not work out who was the employee and who was the employer. Very difficult I know.but they probably spent more on giving us the runaround than what they should have paid out. We gave up in the end as there is only two of us in the household and we had hens for eggs and a healthy vegetable garden. We already had a large stock of toilet paper due to my stockpiling my favourite brand when on special. It never fails to amaze me that people will fawn at the feet of the most despicable, dishonest, arrogant abhorrent jumped up never came down pricks (just jokes lol) , but maybe not! that ever walked this earth because they HAVE A LOT OF MONEY! Sorry for shouting. Money, I might add that is generally made by ripping off those at the bottom of the financial tip. If we stopped buying and concentrated on recycling our possessions we would be so much better off and the dregs at the top would run screaming to our Government to save them from this unexpected downturn in profits. Pretty much everything we have second hand if not more and nobody turns their noses up at our *poverty?) whoops. I did go on. . Off now.
   • Janet 5.1

     29 August 2023 at 1:10 pm

     And now this huge rip off by businesses.. leaving us with a whole lot of immigrant workers that clearly were not needed!

     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/accredited-employer-work-visa-exploitation-allegations-immigration-minister-andrew-little-orders-review-after-serious-concerns/VIGRRIYWEJGQDBOMS5ZN5U56MY/

     " Accredited Employer Work Visa scheme. As at August 14, 80,576 Accredited Employer Work Visas have been approved since the new visa opened in July last year, and there are approximately 27,892 accredited employers."
   • Patricia Bremner 5.2

     29 August 2023 at 2:26 pm

     Cheers Ffloyd. That was a good rant. You are telling it how it is. I don't mind people having more, it is when they are never satisfied I get peeved.

     Quite correct about recycling and reusing. It helps makes the money go further.

     We have a second hand dining room suite lounge suite and outdoor furniture. They are regularly admired. We used an online site to source items near us after our painting job was finished. A new bed and 'fridge were our only new things. Cheers. Prefer older well made items. Our dresser is 2nd hand Queen Anne with dovetail joints. "She" talks when the temperature changes more than 10deg lol.
     • Visubversa 5.2.1

       29 August 2023 at 4:13 pm

       Totally agree about the beauties of older furniture. I have only 3 items of furniture in my house that I actually purchased – 2 easy chairs and one of the two beds.

       I have managed nearly 50 years of "family" furniture. I sleep in my Grandmother's bed – Art Deco (1924), oak headboard and footer. Has the matching dressing table – and a "po cupboard".

       I am reminded of the line from some Tory MP about someone he did not like – "he is so nouveau riche that he had to buy his own furniture".
   • Psyclingleft.Always 5.3

     29 August 2023 at 4:12 pm

     Hi Ffloyd. As one of the "working poor" myself, and having also been there, done that, with some of what youve said….youre allgood. having a vent at times..is what you have to do.

     I certainly relate to what you say re our consumer/throwaway system.

     Completely unsustainable. Anway..take care : )
6. arkie 6

   29 August 2023 at 1:12 pm

   Labour's 'savings' include taking supposed ring-fenced climate change funds… Without informing the Climate Change Minister.

   While some of the money will come from trimming future Budget operating allowances, as well as a directive to public sector agencies to cut their baseline spending and reduce their use in consultants and contractors, $1.018b will come from immediate savings.

   Some $236m will come from the Climate Emergency Response Fund, which is supposed to be ring-fenced for climate spending, but instead will be returned to the general savings pool.

   According to Newsroom, James Shaw knew the government was doing a savings exercise and was briefed on a $10m cut to a waste priority – but only found out about the remaining $226m at the same time the public did.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/496804/grant-robertson-offers-apology-to-james-shaw-over-climate-fund-cuts

   Labour governing alone are unprepared to do what is necessary to protect our environment, our lifestyle and our future. This election is the climate election. Party vote Green.
7. Psyclingleft.Always 7

   29 August 2023 at 4:05 pm

   Rosemary Penwarden. No matter what you think of her…..she sure has courage of her convictions.

   https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/dunedin-protester-concretes-hand-wellington-road
8. Psyclingleft.Always 8

   29 August 2023 at 4:36 pm

   The Nats….same as it ever was.

   "Yes, we will bring back 90-day trials"

   And….

   Luxon, asked whether he would also reverse Labour's move to double sick leave from five to 10 days, had no plans to change it at this point.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/496806/national-confirms-it-would-reinstate-90-day-trials

   Luxon….. "no plans to change it at this point".

   Riiight. The NAct creeps will take NZ back in time.

   We must fight back !
9. Mike the Lefty 9

   29 August 2023 at 5:14 pm

   There is a bill currently being debated in parliament about reducing the voting age in local body (not general) elections to 16 years

   It is not extended to general elections because it requires a parliamentary super majority which wouldn't be possible because the NACTS predictably oppose it, but for local body elections it requires a simple majority.

   I had to laugh at National's Michael Woodhouse's argument against: 16 year olds are not allowed to own a house, therefore they are not ratepayers and local body elections are primarily for ratepayers.

   Just because you don't pay rates directly doesn't mean you don't pay them at all. Every time you pay your rent you are indirectly paying rates.

   For me that rather sums up National – in it for those who own properties. Those who rent are second class who don't really deserve to vote. I remember way back in 1977 I went to register to vote in the local body elections and being told scornfully (and wrongly) that since I wasn't a ratepayer I couldn't vote.

   Pre the great 1832 Reform Bill. That's where National get their inspiration.
   • Tiger Mountain 9.1

     29 August 2023 at 7:01 pm

     Another dirty little quirk of local Govt. elections is that multiple property owners can exercise more than one vote!

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-body-elections/129762476/call-to-block-property-owners-casting-more-than-one-local-election-vote

     Given the generally low participation rate in recent Local Government elections some might say it makes no odds…but…property owners are of the cohort that tend to vote, unlike renters of overpriced dumps.
10. Chris 10

    30 August 2023 at 2:16 pm

    Labour, finally, gets it right for housing to be sorted, for the nactoids to cruise in and take all the credit…as per usual, of course.

    https://www.oag.parliament.nz/2023/hud-leadership

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