New Lynn should grab Greg Presland (damnit)

Written By: - Date published: 7:49 am, January 26th, 2017 - 103 comments
Categories: election 2017, elections, labour, MMP - Tags: , , , , , ,

Greg Presland has been daft enough put his hand up to become the Labour candidate for the New Lynn electorate. While that would be unfortunate for this site, my advice for Labour, and the New Lynn electorate  grab him.  According to various media the leading candidates are him and Deborah Russell.

Claire Trevett: Battle to replace Cunliffe in New Lynn
Stuff: Six up for Cunliffe seat; Russell and Presland frontrunners

Claire Trevett repeats the usual National party spin on the Labour party selection process

The two frontrunners are Greg Presland, a local and longstanding associate of Cunliffe, and Deborah Russell, an outsider and tax expert at Massey University who has support from Labour’s hierarchy.

The showdown could pit Labour’s ruling Council against local members when the selection meeting takes place on February 11.

Four of the seven votes at the meeting will be local votes while three are Labour Council votes – but one of the local votes will be a floor vote of the party members at the selection meeting.

As a New Lynn resident since 1987 and strong backer of Cunliffe, Presland has the local advantage but Russell is understood to have support from Labour’s Council because of her media profile as a commentator, her finance expertise and because it wants more women in electorates.

Presland was closely involved in Cunliffe’s campaign for the leadership. There is also concern in Labour about Presland’s outspoken – and sometimes critical – contributions to The Standard blog under the pseudonym Mickey Savage.

Hummph. I always find this kind of dialogue so reminiscent of a David Farrar jerk off spin line. In this case I’m sure that I have seen all of these phrases virtually verbatim on his ‘independent’ KiwiBlog. I guess that is where Claire picks up her prejudices from. David Farrar is the pollster for the National party, including the qualitative testing of lines. But he knows fuck-all about the Labour party, and he knows even less about Auckland.

Unlike Mt Albert, there are going to be a number of candidates for the New Lynn seat. While there was some talk of getting a selection going in Mt Albert just because uncontested selections are just a a pain. However local members really just wanted to nick Jacinda Arden from Auckland Central because we knew her and the type of work she’d been doing next door.

However generally, if at all possible, all selections should be contested. Further down in the article there is a mention of Susan Zhu, Christina Faumuina, Owen Gill and Sunny Kaushal. Most of these are possible Auckland or local candidates and it is probable that others would also enter before selections close.

Sure head office could try to parachute a candidate in as happened in Mt Albert in 2009. But (especially in Auckland) they’re likely to find that to do so for a ‘safe’ seat, unless they’re very careful, they’ll just lose the members efforts and either the seat or the party votes that the seat generates. Quite frankly, this is Auckland. Everyone has other and usually better things to do than putting effort into campaigns for people who don’t know the local political ground.

But Claire (and the mischievous Farrar spin lines) miss the crucial factor. This isn’t a long drawn out exercise like Mt Albert in 2009 where a candidate only had to win a by election, and then had years before a real campaign. Most of the electorates with sitting Labour MPs are already starting to wind up their campaigns for the general election this year. Throwing a locally ignorant candidate into that maelstrom of decisions and choices in complex Auckland electorates will be a problem that even the Labour head office must be aware of.

In my politically jaundiced and completely unsolicited opinion 1, Greg would be a great local candidate. Now I can’t claim to be an expert Auckland westie so I’ll limit my opinions to the general observations that the westies of New Lynn, Titirangi and Blockhouse Bay are likely to tolerate (and really I don’t give a damn if any don’t want to tolerate it) – I simply haven’t lived out that way for long enough periods to know the ground.

But that electorate isn’t a black hole for me in the way that South Auckland or the Eastern Suburbs are. I do have a bit of history around the area. I’m a isthmus Aucklander with a parent who grew up in Titirangi in the post depression 1940s. Her parents worked at Crown Lynn for a very long time after it was founded. My first four years of work in the 1980s after my first stint at university were at a couple of Ceramco companies in New Lynn. And of course I have friends out that way who like bending my ear. So I have an idea of how much that New Lynn, Blockhouse Bay and Titirangi area has changed over decades and just how complex the social ground is.

With all due respect for Deborah Russell, who I have been reading since in In A Strange Land nearly a decade ago, I think that you’re really pushing it uphill to become a candidate in the time available. Labour should have got off their arse and organised their selection a whole lot closer to the time that David Cunliffe announced he wouldn’t be standing in 2017. Which I seem to remember was announced quite a while back in last year.

Then Deborah might have had time to get on the ground and to get ready. But to head in at this late juncture from a Wellington / Palmerston North axis just makes her candidacy for selection a bit of a crap shoot regardless of her obvious competency.

In my opinion, Labour in Auckland really REALLY needs local or reasonably resident candidates to replace sitting MPs for their existing electorates. Ones who know the shifting physical and demographic geography of their large electorates and the specialised local infrastructure to win electorate MPs their seats with enough extra ommph to not only defend and raise their electorate vote, but to also raise the all-important party vote in the electorate. Newbies to an urban electorates like New Lynn are unlikely to do either.

Michael Wood demonstrated how much of a difference it makes with the easy by-election win in Mount Roskill seat, and I suspect in the forthcoming general election. He has been deeply involved in that seat at an organisational level for a long time.

Similarly Jacinda Arden followed the ex-Auckland Central suburb of Grey Lynn into my local electorate of Mt Albert. That certainly eased the transition. While the two electorates are really really different, the residential Grey Lynn suburb (which was the traditional bulwark of Auckland Central voters in the old Auckland Central seats for so long) is not. She will have the fun of getting to know Avondale and Waterview. But she has jelled with local members 3 because of the experience of years of just living and being involved locally on the Auckland Isthmus.

As a contrast, it made it a lot easier than the awkwardness and flailing around that the parachuting of David Shearer into my home electorate of Mt Albert back in 2009 caused. In my opinion, while he was great on paper, he simply didn’t fit with the large and diverse electorate and the people working in it. While he slowly remade it into a personal vote machine, he was still ceding party vote two general elections later.

I’m afraid that parachuting remote candidates in, especially on short notice, is something that should be obsolete in a party that depends so much on the ability of local MPs to turn out party vote in electorates.

Sure as a strategy it often worked back in the days when we had 20,000 odd voters in electorates, but it gets freaking hard to do in large urban MMP electorates with more than 50,000 voters. You have to be on the ground for quite a while to get to know the area and the people – more like years rather than months.

I’m pretty sure that the Labour party in Wellington is just as aware of that as Auckland members are. If not, then I’m sure they will be informed.

Speaking of which – when are the selections for Auckland Central due? It’d be a pity to waste the efforts of recent elections in getting that seat.


  1. Greg will probably be somewhat irritated with me writing this – he is a rather modest person and not inclined to blow his own trumpet. But tough luck. I’m going to be pained if you win the nomination and the seat in a general election 2. Because then the site will lose a reliable author (mickeysavage) who writes his clear and strong opinions in so many posts.
  2. We don’t let people primarily being paid by taxpayers for political work to write here except as Guest Posts under their own name. As it is, if he wins the selection, he will have to start using his real name as an alias.
  3. Including grumpy old me – still a member in Mt Albert because I’m useless at removing direct debits. I grew up in Mt Albert but have spent most on my time when in Auckland around Ponsonby. But I never joined the local Labour party in Auckland Central. That was because when I moved to Ponsonby in 1989/90, after doing a MBA and some work in Dunedin , Richard Prebble was the Labour MP for Auckland central. Urrggh. I am rather finicky about who I want to represent me and who I’m willing to work for. So I started helping out Helen Clark despite her rather leftie and socially liberal reputation.

103 comments on “New Lynn should grab Greg Presland (damnit)”

  1. “Unlike Mt Albert, there are going to be a number of candidates for the New Lynn seat.”

    As far as I’ve heard there are at least five candidates so far for Mt Albert.

    • Ad 1.1

      Basic confusion of Labour party selection candidate process in New Lynn, with actual election in Mt Albert.

    • lprent 1.2

      There was only one candidate for the Labour selection for Mt Albert.

      There are at least 3 candidates for the by-election in Mt Albert. Arden for Labour, Genter for the Greens, and Penny Bright.

  2. Ad 2

    I agree.
    I will be voting for Greg.

  3. lprent 3

    I should add that Greg hasn’t talked to me about his decision.

    I knew he was starting to think about it because it was raised in the author back-end comments about the policy on pseudonyms (when he is a candidate) and when we’d revoke author rights (if he becomes an MP).

    So he doesn’t know that I was going to comment on it. In fact the only reason I know now is because I have a tracker for mentions of the site and this showed up in the Trevett article

    He was likely to give up blogging for The Standard however. “I’m pretty sure I won’t be allowed to [continue].”

  4. mickysavage 4

    Thanks lprent. I have been meaning to talk to you about it!

    • lprent 4.1

      🙂

      If you keep doing this kind of daft crap (ie stuff that would interfere with programming is the way I think of it), you should probably get a wikipedia page up at some point. In fact all candidates should do that automatically these days. A lot easier for members to access.

      I was hunting for bio web pages for the listed candidates for this post. Not with much success. Found some linked in ones for Deborah and Susan. Your website page site looks ok. Bolted another page on to the local campaign pages? Adequate for purpose.

      But didn’t find anything for someone who I have seen at numerous selections for various things like Sonny.

      Perhaps we should set up some workshops on the basics of how to present yourself on the net. After all it is the primary information source these days.

  5. Keith 5

    “David Farrar is the pollster for the National party, including the qualitative testing of lines”; More appropriate would be “testing of lies” as it would a cold day in hell, or National Party HQ, when we schmucks would ever be privileged enough to be told the truth by this government and it’s lackys like Farrar or their Herald mouthpieces.

    Agreed though, if you expect the locals on the ground to do the work then allow them to choose a candidate, within reason of course. Or have the millions from Nationals donors and hire campaign teams.

  6. Stunned Mullet 6

    Oh please let Greg win the nomination.

  7. Sabine 7

    I agree, i came across that Trevett article yesterday that spoke about the election and yes, Greg Presland should have the support of the Labour Party.

    I can understand the ‘need’ to promote women, but it is not done with an arbitrary women quote. Surely the Labour party can identify women in electorates and promote these within their ranks. Insisting in a ‘quota’ does neither help the women nor the Labour Party. In saying that, there are some good women in the Labour Party so the future in that regards is bright.

    However, out west, Greg Presland has name recognition, is known personally to quite a few peeps, and yes he is a Local. And all politics start local. Rinse Repeat, all politics start local.

    • weka 7.1

      Select the candidates for elections first, then adjust the list selection for gender equity (amongst other things). And, as you say, support women in Labour in general to come up through the ranks. That should apply to working class people too.

      Labour’s problem isn’t that it wants a women’s quota, it’s that its neoliberal agenda for the past 35 years has damaged many people and communities and those people also need way better representation than they are getting.

      Plus, thanks neoliberalism, we now have a political situation where many people attempt to pit women and working class people against each other, which just entrenches neoliberalism further.

      In reality, I don’t know how the above could be accomplished, because I assume much of it is due to what is happening within caucus and within the Labour Party organisational structure e.g. the LECs.

      • Sabine 7.1.1

        honestly i don’t want to hear about the neoliberal agenda of the last 35 years. Only people older then that remember that a. it was different, and b. you could still argue if it was better times.

        the Labour Government has a ‘women quote’. Full stop. It is bullshit. It is not going to help the women nor the party as there will always be the stain of ‘she got the job cause vagina’.

        if the Labour Party feels that despite its large female membership they don’t have enough women active in the Party then they can do a few things, a. start paying those activits, b. create women work shops/networks and the likes within the party, c. promote women up, and d. when ever you come a cross a talented female don’t talk down, don’t expect them to make sandwiches, and again promote them up.

        as for women and working class people being pitched against each other.

        Women are working class people.

        Weka we can go back with photographic evidence showing women worker back over since the advent of cameras. Heck even the ‘nudes of the 1890’s show working women. So that too is justh hogwash to blurry the lines. And then there is enough artwork from even earlier days that showed women workers.

        Women are workers.
        They always worked.
        Even in the golden fifties women worked. They were paid shit, they were treated like shit, but they worked to support their families. And they were Union Members, they striked, they were beaten, they were force fed and and and. Just like their menfolk.

        What some politicians and groups do is pit men against women.
        And often the men do not realise that the women they are pitted against are their mothers, their daughters, their sisters, their wifes. They will realise that once their wifes will breed a new blessing every 18 month, and can’t go to work anymore and thus the household finances are going down the drain, but until then they will think of the ‘women as the other women’ and thus it wont’ affect them.
        But hey, yeah, i guess you could get an unemployment statistic of 0% if you force women out of the workforce by pregnancy, and they will go back to making pin money mending clothes, washing clothes, nursing other babies, cooking for others, and if all falters, go prostitute themselves for a coin so the kids can have a feed.

        So can we please cut the educated blather about neo liberalism – it means absolutely nothing in this new world anymore.
        But rather talk about how we still cut women short in politics by not preparing a playing field that would allow women to actually be active in politics – next to working fultime and raising children and caring for the family , and then by promoting them for their strength and accomplishments rather then a Party Policy that is designed to falter.

        End of this now tho as this thread should be about Greg Presland and hopefully his successful bid. I really would like to see a Westie represent West Auckland.

        • Leftie 7.1.1.1

          Hear hear !! Hundreds & Thousands +1’s Sabine

        • weka 7.1.1.2

          I see the post as also being about Labour’s selection process (and I hope they choose Greg), so I’ll keep talking about that.

          Yes, some women are working class in the conventional sense. I don’t need to look at historical photos to understand this, my mother worked my whole life and her mother was a ‘farmer’s wife’, meaning she did manual and onsite managerial labour. Neither would be considered working class in the sense of poor, but both ‘worked’ as well as raising a family.

          Not sure if you are against all structural gender balancing. Do you think the Greens should also not be doing this? e.g. managing their list to ensure gender equity? The things that you suggest that Labour could do instead will still come under the same kinds of criticism of those that oppose identity politics (read what CV or Chris Trotter write about the Labour Party and women). So there is a pitting of working class against women by men with certain agendas, and while I agree with you on the need for change, I disagree on the strategy. I’m guessing that Labour has a clunky gender quota precisely because it allowed women some power (of the kind you suggest), but still had a culture within it that held women back, hence the compromise of the quota.

          Labour are widely perceived as having lost a big chunk of their voter base precisely because of neoliberalism. It’s a the political milieu we live in, hard to see how we can not talk about it or reference it. There are plenty of young people who understand what neoliberalism is even if they have always lived under it. I don’t know what Greg or Deborah’s family backgrounds are, but they are both professional people. I guess the question is how do they each represent ‘working people’? (which is Labour’s framing of the new class system).

          The other issue is whether there are class/gender issues in the selection process via the locals and the Council vote. I’d hazard a guess that local politics and best man for the job (sic) take precedent.

          Edit, I’m also guessing that Labour Party culture of how electorates are valued will be a big part of it too, as well as the stuff that Lynn is talking about about the two votes.

          • Sabine 7.1.1.2.1

            i am not trying to stop you from discussing the selection process, i don’t want to derail the thread for what its worth.

            First: All women are workers. Every women i know works, a. either at home – children, household, office for hubby, etc or volunteering work to the benefit of the community. It might be unpaid, but it is work. Full stop. Women are Workers in the most conventional sense. And without the work women do, often unpaid, our world would not be the same.

            And all women should be considered working women – especially those that work unpaid in their husbands businesses as these are the women that often have to stay married as they don’t have the money to leave, these are the women that miss out on retirment as they have no savings, no insurance and no income, they are the ones that usually end up living poor if hubby ran away or did not manage to provide enough.
            Work is work Weka. If you are employed by hour Husband cause it saves him a dime you are his employee, he just gets to have dinner served by you too.
            Same counts for children. IF a child works on the Family farm to save money they work, they are just unpaid labour.
            If a women stays at home to take care of the invalid child/husband/elder they are working unpaid and are saving the state a lot of money not providing the services via an invalids house / home.

            Second: As for Labour having lost its membership base 35 years ago. Whoohooo. Who cares. Again, i repeat. Who cares.
            Maybe those old enough to have been the ones to walk away from labour 35 years ago.
            But, how many of the Labour Party of 35 years ago are in Parliament today? So really, one can argue that the Labour Party of 35 years ago is either in retirement or has died or has been replaced by other People.
            IF Labour wants to be seen as relevant it needs to get on with life. And to those that want to rehash the same crap again and again, let me say in no uncertain terms, ‘These times are never going to come back’ That train has left the station. Or in the words of the rightwing : Get over it.

            third: I have lived through the German debacle of teh ‘women quota’. The poor women who came to parliament under that ‘quota’ never really got far, the tag “Quota Women” hung around their necks like an anchor. so yeah, nah, if they want women to run and be successful, they need to work better with women and considering that 50% of the population is female they should find enough women capable to do the job. (I have said precisely that to Phil Twyford 4 years ago).

            fourth: I am not a Member of the Green Party, but have voted for them. My partner votes Green. I don’t care one bit about how the Green Party seeks its members/elected officials. I am a member of the Labour Party. I am however pleased at seeing the two parties working together.

            lastly: ‘Working’ has changed alot of the years. So i don’t care if they work in a legal profession or like me work with their hands. Does not matter to me one bit. I am however against running a women solely because she is a women, in an electorate where there is a genuine local candidate that has done the ground work for years and is known and well respected.
            And for what its worth, i have stated above that Labour has good females in its Party and they should get their say and place, but with New Lynn it should be Greg Presland or any other local candidate that lives and works in the electorate, that is known and respected by the locals.

            If we want to localize Politics we need to stop shipping in candidates that don’t live in the electorate and don’t know the locals/community groups etc etc. Or else, give me one reason why people should get engaged in politics at a local level?

        • Rosemary McDonald 7.1.1.3

          Sabine, have you seen this?

          • Sabine 7.1.1.3.1

            i will watch this later. thanks.

            • Rosemary McDonald 7.1.1.3.1.1

              Or, if you’re one of those people who prefer to read…http://www.marilynwaring.com/news/2015-womensday.html

              “‘We were particularly concerned at the evidence of social injustice towards full-time homemakers, for which there can be no justification other than customary practice, and which reflects detrimentally on the status of all women’. A great number of submissions stressed the relatively low economic and social value placed on a housewife’s services compared with services performed by other sections of the community.

              Forty years later we have the market related outcomes of this social injustice: the case for sleepover shifts at IHS homes; the Employment Court and Court of Appeal decisions in the equal pay case for rest home workers, because of the high percentage of female employees; the Employment Court Decision regarding the deliberate servitude in which 35,000 women workers in New Zealand have been systematically exploited by being paid subsidies; and the breathtaking case of the 24/7 carers who are immediate family whose human rights case was won in the Equal Opportunities Tribunal, in the High Court, in the Court of Appeal – and then the National Government decided to ignore court rulings, to take away the right to recompense and the ouster condition preventing challenges to the law.

              Well, so much for the boast of believing in ‘equal opportunity and equal citizenship’ on the National Party website. But not surprising in a government where a Minister can advise his agency that he does not want to read any assessment of human rights in his Cabinet Briefing papers.

              Can we think of any equivalent treatment of something men did for centuries unpaid? Yes – it was called slavery. But exploiting women is apparently just fine. The 2009 – 10 time use survey finds 63% of men’s work is paid, and 65% of women’s work is unpaid. Women spent 4 hours 20 minutes every day on unpaid work, and men spent 2 hours and 32 minutes a day on unpaid work. The fact is the entire market economy would grind to a halt if women didn’t do the majority of unpaid work. Recognition of this hits hard at the claim that only market work is of value and of course redistribution of investments from government on this basis would undermine the cushy ride boys have given boys for decades.

              …..The boys in parliament might buy that – it postpones the issue, it needn’t report before the next election – but it’s an interesting day when I can conclude, from evidence, that there were greater and more female human rights legislative changes under Muldoon than there have ever been under Key.”

  8. Andre 8

    Anyone know who the Nats are considering for New Lynn?

  9. Anne 9

    Have a good look at the photo in the Herald article.
    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11788733

    It was taken at the infamous party conference in 2012 when the media harassed Cunliffe almost to the death. Greg Presland, as a friend and former local chairman, was entitled to be talking to Cunliffe but the inference is… he was “in on the non existent plot” against David Shearer. It was nothing more than a mirage in the fevered minds of the media but it worked, and Trevett is now trying to smear Presland.

    If my knowledge of New Lynn Labour is correct, it will only make them more determined to select him. The electorate is still predominantly a working class one (although it is changing) and an academic from Massey University will not go down well with Waitakere man (and woman) no matter how talented she may be.

    That’s the primary factor to be considered for this electorate and NOT the fact the other front runner is a woman.

    • Olwyn 9.1

      I agree Anne. With an election this close, in an electorate that could all too easily go the other way, it would be strange not to choose Greg Presland, who is already a trusted local activist and part of the existing networks. I have wondered if Deborah Russell would make a good fit for Auckland Central, though I have no idea who might be intending to stand in that seat. Admittedly she is not from the electorate, but it is an electorate that is somewhat altered due to boundary changes, and I think she would be attractive to a broad group of people in central.

      • Anne 9.1.1

        Good idea Olwyn. And lets bear in mind, a bit of an apprenticeship as a list MP is no bad thing. It worked well for Phil Twyford and now Jacinda Ardern – just to name two in Auckland. Deborah could find her feet in Auckland Central and if she doesn’t succeed her talents and expertise can still be used in the meantime as a highly valued list MP.

  10. Skinny 10

    Best of luck Greg you are going to need it. The party should do the right thing and reward a staunch local activist. Whether the beltway academics or Little want you is to be determined.

  11. greywarshark 11

    lprent
    Did you mean to say you would be painted if Greg ‘didn’t’ win…
    But tough luck. I’m going to be pained if you win the nomination and the seat in a general election.

    Just to be sure. You make a really good case for him and I hope he does win the nom.

    And I hope for lots about the election so I can have some great news to follow, I can then try to ignore Trump on and on and his latest on an on, and USA congress and riots and shootings and decline and disasters on and on which produce a deadening feeling of depression and futility in my head area.

    • lprent 11.1

      🙂

      No it was definitely “pained”. “mickeysavage” would have to stop writing here with the inevitable hole in the posts. That is where my pain would come from. We are usually short of authors and especially ones who write regularly.

      The Standard has had a internal policy for a long time that essentially says we don’t let MPs and paid political staffers to operate as authors in the interests of transparency.

      They can do Guest Posts under their own name. Similarly when someone is a selected candidate, they need to posts under their name. When they are seeking selection, I’ll keep an eye on what they write in case anyone starts abusing the privilege.

      We’re a volunteer organisation and it is pretty important that readers can trust that authors write their own person opinions without ulterior motivations, and reputation is something that is way too easy to lose.

      Just look at the dubious “business” ethics of the mercenary bloggers at

      Whaleoil – takes pay to slag people, organisations, and political opponents.

      Kiwiblog -the main author acts like a remora to the National party shark when it comes to income,

      The Daily Blog – Who pays contributors and where a major author appears to take contracts for political parties and organisations.

      The problem with all of these is that they are largely undeclared on a post by post basis. People who read the site frequently may be aware of the possible conflicts, but casual readers are not.

      We occasionally have some exceptions For instance when Mike Smith was doing some paid advice for various Labour leaders. However these possible conflicts are usually pointed out in the posts.

  12. Andre 12

    As a resident in the New Lynn electorate, there’s a bunch of local issues important to me that central government needs to help address. Kauri dieback, protection of the Waitakere Ranges, Auckland-wide integrated public transport…

    Greg has put a lot into these issues. So I’d be very confident Greg would effectively represent those issues in Wellington. That’s the point of electorate MPs, right?

    At the same time, I have a lot of respect for the work Deborah does on issues that affect the entire nation. So please, Labour Party, put Deborah high on the list if there isn’t a winnable electorate she’s a good fit for.

    • weka 12.1

      That seems a reasonable suggestion. Call me old fashioned, but shouldn’t electorate MPs have lived in their electorate and know it from that? I don’t know how the list is made by Labour though.

    • Jilly Bee 12.2

      Agree Andre. I met Deborah at a L P Women’s weekend in 2013 and was immediately impressed by her and asked her if she had considered standing for Parliament. Deborah replied that she had put her name forward for the Rangitikei Electorate. She was selected but as Rangitikei is of course a solid Nat electorate she didn’t get in. I hope she is placed well up on the list this time around. I have mixed feelings about her running for New Lynn, especially now that Greg is in the mix, though I don’t for one minute doubt her ability to be a top notch MP. Maybe Auckland Central would be the one. We sure need women of Deborah’s calibre in the House.

    • billmurray 12.3

      Andre,
      re your last sentence: the Labour party have made a decision to make Deborah Russell their preferred candidate for New Lynn.
      They do not want Greg Presland as the candidate.
      Michael Woodhouse got Phil Goffs endorsement in Mt Roskill.
      David Cunliffe has NOT endorsed Greg.
      Greg has got his back to the wall, he needs support.

      • Anne 12.3.1

        You’re either a total idiot with no comprehensive abilities or:

        You’re a total idiot with no comprehensive abilities.

        1) You’re a liar. Join the Trump Party. They’re big on lies.
        2) You’re still a liar. As 1) join the Trump Party.
        3) You’re and even bigger liar. Join that Party!
        4, 5 & 6) Liar, liar pants on fire.

        We know you Slater, Farrall and the rest of the D.T brigade are scared witless of Greg Presland. He has a shitload of support and you feel threatened by him. Hence the smearing by your little media elves.

        • billmurray 12.3.1.1

          Anne,
          not sure if you are talking to me?.
          I am a member of the Labour Party.
          Greg Presland without Labour head office endorsement, needs all the support he can get.
          Says me.

          • swordfish 12.3.1.1.1

            .
            _________________________________________________________________

            billmurray

            “Anne,
            not sure if you are talking to me?.
            I am a member of the Labour Party.”

            __________________________________________________________________

            And yet you’re presumably the same billmurray (lower case, all in one word) who posts regular comments like these (below) on Kiwiblog

            billmurray (a few selected comments from various recent Kiwiblog threads)

            billmurray

            Deceit by Labour, who would’ve believed it!!!!!!!!!!!!.

            billmurray

            Well done Bill English ‘our Prime Minister’ in saying that he will not attend the ‘Treaty of Waitangi” celebrations because he would not be allowed to speak at certain functions, the pox on Maori who have stopped him, the pox on Andrew Little who is supporting these deadbeats. The pox on the Labour Party who are supporting Little.

            billmurray

            Andrew Little and Labour are not about winning an election, everything in Labour is about safe seats. Andrew Little only stood for the leadership to get a safe seat awarded to him . He cannot even win a seat and he wants to be PM!!.

            A revolution is needed inside the Labour party, they are rotten to the core and crumbling before our eyes.

            billmurray

            Labour are craven, of course they will offer it. (PM to Peters)

            billmurray:

            A very nasty article against Bill English in the Horrid on Saturday by John Roughan.
            It was a awful piece of personal opinion.
            What’s his gripe?.
            Anyone know?.

            billmurray

            Well done the Government of NZ, particularly to its leader John Key, we have a long way to go but he has set the ball rolling, well done again.

            billmurray

            Andrew Little promised to the unions and Labour membership that he would repeal the 90 day trial period in employment law, he was elected, in part because of this lie, to the Labour leadership. Since then he has backtracked on what he promised and said that he will come out with a policy to please everyone.

            He has not come out with any such policy and this poll is saying to me that small business owners have as much faith in Andrew Little and Labour to support them ‘ as truth in the statement that pigs can fly’.
            Andrew Little tells lies and flies kites, he is a disaster to the Labour movement.

            billmurray

            You have hit the nail:

            The 2008 FTA which Labour negotiated with China contained words to the effect that” any Chinese national, whether resident in NZ or not, the unfettered right to buy residential property in New Zealand”.

            That’s when the NZ Labour party sold our sovereignty.

            They are Hippocratic in statement and culture to the truth of sovereignty.

            They are liars to the good people of New Zealand.

            billmurray

            This would be Green party tactics in a coalition with Labour, also they would blame every-one but themselves. Ask Shane Jones.

            billmurray

            The old Indian and Chinese immigrant is ripping off the system, they have never paid a cent in tax’s, either local or national, and get free pensions, free travel and subsidised living allowances.
            They think all Kiwi’s are stupid for putting up with them.
            They are right.

            Now, I’m prepared to be generous, William, by entertaining the (admittedly somewhat remote) possibility that you may indeed be a Labour Party member and simply have renegade tendencies. But you do seem to acquire an enormous number of upticks – and supportive comments – from the Kiwiblog regulars.

            • Anne 12.3.1.1.1.1

              😀

            • billmurray 12.3.1.1.1.2

              Swordfish,
              there is nothing remote about my Labour party membership.
              I have certainly praised the National government, Key for the initiative on pest control and English for his refusal to pander to blatant nonsense from Waitangi Maori.
              Andrew Little made promises about the 90 day trial period in Labour law to get elected as leader, he has indicated a change of mind, which prompted a severe retort from the late Helen Kelly.
              The Labour party are indeed the authors of the housing crisis in NZ, the 2008 China/ NZ free trade agreement created the situation.
              I was supportive of the MOU Labour/ Greens but since Labour has failed to get traction with the electors I believe that Labour would be better served by not being in it.
              Should there be talks after the election between Labour/ Greens and NZ First I make the statement that I have made before that, such is the desperation to get on government benches that both Labour / Greens would offer PM to Winston to get NZ First support.
              Labour is chocker with neo liberalism and I am not certain that winning an election has more priority than getting into a safe seat and a job for life.
              I still believe that kiwi’s are stupid (I am one of them) for giving out freebies to immigrants who have never contributed one cent to our economy.
              I still make the point that Greg Presland needs all the help he can get because of the non endorsement from Labours head office.
              He has been shafted and everybody supporting Greg know it.
              Anne I do hope that you send me one of your smiles, thank you so much in anticipation.

              • swordfish

                All right, William, I’ll retract my various doubts about your authenticity.

                Just be aware that Farrar’s Kiwiblog is arguably the most influential of the National Party’s propaganda sites (with certain leading journalists apparently happy on occasions to regurgitate almost word for word) … so when you aggressively attack Labour – “Deceit”, “pox on the Labour Party”, “rotten to the core and crumbling before our eyes”, “Labour are craven”, “They are liars to the good people of New Zealand” – and receive a good deal of support from some pretty right-wing (many well to the Right of Genghis Khan) Kiwiblog regulars into the bargain … then it doesn’t look good.

                Particularly in Election Year. it’s one thing putting forward principled criticism of Labour on a Left-friendly place like The Standard – quite another to do it on the site of the Nats’ leading and most influential Shill.

                • Leftie

                  No Swordfish, don’t retract your various doubts about BillM’s authenticity, you were right the first time.

          • Leftie 12.3.1.1.2

            BillM you come across as a staunch, often patronizing right winger. Find it very hard to believe you are a member of the Labour party, would this be a 2 pronged rw attack? What a way to sabotage, a Labour party member that constantly trashes Labour. We have seen that before.

      • Andre 12.3.2

        I think my views are pretty clear. But in the end, if Deborah gets the nod over Greg in New Lynn, I’ll just swallow hard to get over the disappointment and vote the same way I would if my preferred option was the candidate. Because it’s still the best option that’s actually on the table, even though it’s not what I’d hoped for. Just like I’ve been arguing other people should do when it comes to other elections.

        • billmurray 12.3.2.1

          Andre,
          well said, I would also be disappointed if Greg did not get the nod, but I would not walk away.
          Maybe Cunliffe is not endorsing Greg because he may need Labour head office for his future business reference’s.

          • Leftie 12.3.2.1.1

            That’s a pretty shitstirring, below the belt assumption about Cunliffe and Labour you have made there BillM.

  13. AmaKiwi 13

    The Labour caucus is confused. The position is “Representative for New Lynn.” It is NOT “representative of the party leadership”, which is what Russell is.

    I have worked hard for the New Lynn LEC, Greg Pressland, and David Cunliffe for more than 12 years.

    If Russell steals this nomination, I will actively campaign AGAINST her.

    • billmurray 13.1

      AmaKiwi,
      sympathise with your sentiments,
      Why hasn’t David Cunliffe endorsed Greg Presland?.

    • Andre 13.2

      Y’know, the party may be in a bind if the leadership really really wants Deborah in Parliament, but doesn’t have confidence there will be enough list places to get her in on the list. Which is kind of a result of the electorate/list split is now 71/49 instead of the originally envisaged 60/60.

      She may be so attractive to the leadership because her expertise and interests are in an area that’s of strong national interest that the leadership feels weak on. So I’m quite prepared to swallow my local disappointment for the sake of achieving the greater goal of changing the government.

      • DoublePlusGood 13.2.1

        Put her in the top 10 on the list then – solves the risk that she’s miss out, unless Labour get zero list seats, in which case they’ve lost the election by miles so it’s irrelevant anyway.

  14. weka 14

    From Trevett,

    “Four of the seven votes at the meeting will be local votes while three are Labour Council votes – but one of the local votes will be a floor vote of the party members at the selection meeting.”

    3 local votes, presumably party officers
    1 vote from a vote of party members on the floor on the night
    3 votes from the Labour Council.

    Questions (from an outsider):

    – what is the Labour Council?
    – does the floor vote include any members or just ones registered in that electorate?

    – how does list selection work?

    • Mike Smith 14.1

      The seven votes are made up this way. The selection panel of 6 people comprises three members of the the Labour Council, the Party’s governing body between conferences; two members elected from the local Electorate Committee; and one member elected by and from Party members of at least one year’s standing who are resident in the electorate. In addition there is another counting vote taken from the same group of qualifying Party members after the candidates have all spoken.
      The list selection is made by the Party Council with the Parliamentary members having a counting vote.

  15. DoublePlusGood 15

    Shouldn’t Deborah Russell be standing in a local electorate – either Rangitikei or Palmerston North? Plenty of party votes to be trying to swing to Labour in that region, and she will win more party votes for Labour there. Chuck her high up the list so she’s in for sure.

    • weka 15.1

      I was wondering that too. Maybe she is shifting to Auckland anyway.

    • She was the Rangitikei candidate in 2014. I’d be happy if she stood for Palmerston North, but I doubt Lees-Galloway and head office would be.

      • DoublePlusGood 15.2.1

        Yeah, I know. It’s a bit like in Wellington where the left parties have a huge pile up of people who could stand in Wellington Central and Rongotai.
        In any case, I think Deborah Russell standing in Rangitikei and Greg Presland in Mount Albert maximises Labour party votes in both seats.

        • lprent 15.2.1.1

          …Greg Presland in Mount Albert…

          Surely you mean New Lynn?

          I think that having just got the selection in Mt Albert, Jacinda could be irritated otherwise.

          • DoublePlusGood 15.2.1.1.1

            Yeah, New Lynn. Oops. Just have Mt Albert on the mind because of the by-election.

  16. Sanctuary 16

    Westies don’t take kindly to carpetbaggers from the fancy suburbs.

  17. mauī 17

    They need as many fresh faces as they can get I think, so both should be in Parliament in my opinion. Having faces from past election defeats isn’t a great look when trying to “change” the government.

    If Micky goes it will be a big loss for the standard too, as big as Anthony leaving.

  18. Leftie 18

    IMO as a Westie, Greg Presland is the perfect candidate for New Lynn.

    Is it ok to put this up?
    <a href="http://gregpresland.com/wordpress/

    Although Deborah Russell is great, she is just not the right person for New Lynn.

    • Draco T Bastard 18.1

      I’d pretty much agree with that. I think Deborah Russell would do better going after Pullya Benefits seat.

    • Ad 18.2

      Deborah is definitely the right person for the Labour Party.

      It is pretty pathetic that the Labour parliamentary leadership have been allowed to use the list as a retirement programme. WTF is Annette King doing there – she came in on the batch from the 1980s, along with that politically spent deadbeat Trevor Mallard.

      Deborah Russell is exceptionally talented in a policy area that Labour have been weak in since Trevor DeCleene shuffled off this mortal coil: tax.

      Labour have left the running of the tax debate term after term to National, without even putting up a damn fight. And there are serious percentage gains of vote to be gained if Labour put up some decent policy and fronted it with Deborah Russell.

      Deborah is incredibly telegenic and articulate – IMHO she is more effective in the media about the economy that Grant Robertson ever could be in a month of Sundays.

      Lyn is right that she has left her run too late to win the locals over.
      But it will be a very tight contest on the selection panel.

      I will be supporting Greg with my vote, but honestly would not die in the ditch if Deborah Russell got it as she will be an outstanding political asset.

      • weka 18.2.1

        Is she likely to get a good list placement?

        • Ad 18.2.1.1

          That’s what I meant criticising the Labour hierarchy for using the list as a retirement plan. There are so many good and exceedingly talented women on the list – Liz Craig from Southland being another – it’s really hard to get them in once Andrew Little, Annette King, and David Parker have taken out their apparently appointed list places. And of course, on current polling they’d be lucky to get anyone at all in on the list itself.

          Which presents something of a bind.

          • weka 18.2.1.1.1

            I haven’t looked properly at the Labour list, but there’s something like 5 List MPs right? I just wondered how far up she would be placed after the sitting MPs. Agreed on the problem with the non-retirees.

      • Leftie 18.2.2

        “Deborah is definitely the right person for the Labour Party.”

        “Deborah is incredibly telegenic and articulate”

        Agreed, and I never said she wasn’t, she is just not the right person for New Lynn.

    • Anne 18.3

      Leftie @ 18
      Handsome fella too. 😉

  19. billmurray 19

    I simply agree, it should not go to a carpet bagger.
    Shame on head office.
    Vote for Greg, the local and best candidate.

  20. adam 20

    Great opportunity for labour to show it listens to the active members. Perceptions mean a lot here, so I hope mickysavage gets the nod. Not from any desire to see mickysavage leave the forum, which would be a sad day indeed. But because labour need community based people like him, Sepuloni and Wood in Auckland. Plus I think at this point, the nod to Wood, Sepuloni and Presland sends a clear message to people in Auckland, that the members are being listened too.

    Small observation, the mickysavage attack by that so called journalist is rather odd and funny. I think it shows how far from reality that so called journalist is. mickysavage is no radical, he is not at any point a extremist, he is so dam moderate at times I’ve been know to shout at the screen. But, and it’s a big one – he does listen to people and he does actually give a dam about how people are living.

    Good luck mickysavage, you soft fluffy social democrat you.

    • invisiphilia 20.1

      “Soft fluffy social democrat” – Love it. That places Greg safely in the middle where he truly is – neither a yes man nor a renegade.

    • mickysavage 20.2

      Good luck mickysavage, you soft fluffy social democrat you

      Thanks adam I am touched!

  21. invisiphilia 21

    LPrent – one point on the party vote is that the Nats do get that for New Lynn and here is where I feel especially hopeful that Greg may be able to swing some of the troublesome blue-green voters. His long standing stance on environmental protection out West and his reputation as an upstanding member of the local community mean that part of the battle is already won IMO.

  22. Brutus Iscariot 22

    I didn’t realise Presland’s penis was such a massive issue.

  23. Sanctuary 23

    So, to be devil’s advocate:

    Is Deborah Russell really an excellent candidate for the parliament? She is very talented, that is undoubtable. But is she a technocrat trying to be a politician? In case some of you have not noticed, elite liberal technocrats are currently rather out of vogue with voters and she has no real record of electability to point to – she has never been elected to my knowledge to any public body. Her record in Rangitīkei wasn’t impressive, failing to make any impression on the National majority. Much of Labour’s problems at the moment stem from not having enough charisma in parliament – no populists, no natural politicians, no showmen or women, no one who can generate a snappy soundbite. I note for example that Greg O’Connor is really good at that sort of thing, he would plug a serious gap in the caucus skillset, whereas Ms. Russell may or may not have any skill whatsoever at politics, which is after the all the primary skillset required of an elected politician. Certainly, given Labour’s parlous state at the moment I am not sure parliament is the right place to begin to find out if Deborah Russell can win votes and generate headlines and embarass ministers.

    It seems to me that Ms. Russell’s future lies in a Paula Rebstock style role as a economic and tax advisor in the PMs office in a future Labour government, followed by a plum role like head of treasury. My personal view is rather than trying to get into parliament with the thinnest of political credentials, she would be far better employed being in the nonth floor engine room and in being given the task of rooting out the neolibs in various government departments, or having mastered politics in the Beehive then moving into the parliament.

    • weka 23.1

      She stood in Rangitīkei in 2014. Here’s the 2011 and 2014 results,

      http://electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2011/electorate-42.html

      http://electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2014/electorate-43.html

      Russell’s Guest Post on TS,

      Guest Post – Labour Candidate Deborah Russell

      MPs also need skills in addition to being politicians who get votes. I’d say a mix is needed of those that are better at campaigning/being charismatic and those that are better at the skill set they bring from outside parliament (no idea where Russell fits on that spectrum).

    • Ad 23.2

      Parliament is designed to make laws.
      It seriously needs people who are technocrats: those who translate policy into law.
      Deborah Russell would be one of the few few people in parliament – let alone the Labour Party -who would actually do that.

      Deborah Russell also understands politics at an unusually deep level; she has a PhD from ANU in political philosophy. That means she reads and gets the patterns, rules, and dynamics of politics better than most.

      Don’t expect her to be a populist. Expect her to think, to do policy, to translate policy into law and regulation – should they get lucky and form a government, Deborah Russell would be one of the few who could slot straight into a Cabinet position and do a really good job.

      And if you think being a “Paula Rebstock” is a crime think again – we are pretty much a decade since any Labour or left-leaning people got into senior governance positions anywhere near this government. Government is a whole bunch more than MPs and civil servants: it’s the Board appointments that remain in power often long after governments have been and gone. Labour needs more Paula Rebstocks.

      If you think her cv is thin, you are simply wrong.

      • billmurray 23.2.1

        Ad,
        what you write about Deborah Russell is impressive, but for head office to favour her over a well liked and respected local candidate is abysmal.
        The Labour party should find her a seat where that seat is looking for a good candidate.
        That’s not New Lynn.

    • Leftie 23.3

      Agree with you Sanctuary.

    • Robertina 23.4

      From what I have seen of Deborah Russell (just her TV appearances) your pompous little theory doesn’t ring true.
      She appears to be a mix of intellect and sensitivity, and she comes across as smart, but also warm and likeable.

  24. tc 24

    interesting times, will Labour do the sensible thing or show that they havent learnt much from the DC saga and nationals msm court of barking shills.

    • billmurray 24.1

      tc,
      no, they have not learned anything, they are pressing a carpet bagger candidate on New Lynn and shunting aside a well known and respected local candidate: Greg Presland.
      WHY?

      • Anne 24.1.1

        OK billmurray. I stand corrected. You do appear to be a Labour supporter. But you have a funny way of showing it sometimes. Swordfish is right. You are playing into the hands of the Dirty Politics Brigade when you vent your spleen at Kiwiblog. Everyone with any knowledge knows David Farrar was implicated in that unpleasant saga – and they’re still at it behind the scenes.

        Try to get your facts right before letting loose on Labour. Some of your claims are way off beam. Yes, they’ve made some bad mistakes in the past – we’ve all alluded to them – but they are infinitely better than the alternative.

        • Leftie 24.1.1.1

          It is not the first time a right winger has infiltrated the Labour party in order to trash it. No real Labour person says the kind of trash talk BillM has said against Labour on the Kiwiblog and elsewhere.

  25. Tanz 25

    Two of the candidates are running mates anyway. Where is the democratic mix in this?
    It will just be hard left politics, nothing sensible or centrist. I would vote for Deborah, not that I give a monkeys really, it’s such an exlcusive and kiss arse club.

    • DoublePlusGood 25.1

      Centrism isn’t sensible. Also, none of the candidates are remotely hard left.

      • Tanz 25.1.1

        they are all very hard left. Communists, the lot. Not one of them even middle of the road.

        • HDCAFriendlyTroll 25.1.1.1

          When you’re hard-hard left everyone else is a RWNJ.

        • DoublePlusGood 25.1.1.2

          There’s a lot of space between hard left (which, in NZ politics, would be maybe Sue Bradford and anyone similarly or further left) and middle of the road. Deborah would be around the political centre.
          Also, go look up what communism actually is.

  26. Steve Bradley 26

    Greg’s got an impecable Labour pedigree; he’s worked hard for Labour out here in the West for a long time. He’s an all round good bloke with a wide experience of local issues. He’s a proven vote winner in local elections. What’s not to like.

    Deborah’s got a lot to offer. Possibly her only serious negative is she’s not local.

    Someone above has written that the key skills needed by politicians are political – can you mobilise and motivate people; can you organise campaigns; can you articulate a vision; can you talk about policy in ways that we can all understand?

    Technical skills? As they say: we need experts on tap, not necessarily on top.

  27. Tanz 27

    And lawmakers will make all the laws. Dangerous?

  28. I’m not a member of any political parties, but I live in this electorate and supported Cunliffe in his time. I’d recommend Presland because he’s a local and has a local business, which I think will go down well. While people mumble about it being ‘working class’ here, it’s very much self-employed tradie working class these days. While they tend not to follow politics between elections too much, if the media gets to gleefully inform them that a local business owner with support from the local party got shafted by a Wellington committee to put in their mate – an academic – well, need I continue? National have been winning the party vote for a while out here now, and there’s plenty of two-tick Green voters. I understand that with his local board work, he’s got some bridges which can be built when things get tactical in that regard.

    Just one thing, Presland: I wouldn’t mind if you’d quit it with the deep-state seeded anti-Putin memes I’ve been seeing around these parts. Let the MIC do its own knitting.

  29. Just the Struth 29

    I think we shouldn’t confuse New Zealand Council with ‘head office’ or any other meaningless terms. It’s NZ Council and those people are elected at conference. Conference has been dominated since 2012 by an alliance of West and South Auckland and most affiliates.

    What will be interesting is if Greg can’t get a single vote from NZ Council. This is a body that the Cunliffe/hard left faction have been stacking since 2012. That group was crucial to Andrew’s success in winning the leadership. The Council is not friendly to the right or the soft (Robertson) left. Besides a few personal relationships with Deborah Russell (who is seen as coming from Cunliffe’s faction but then falling out with them – she was promised a winnable list spot that Cunliffe couldn’t deliver), most of the council will be closer to Greg at least factionally.

    Greg needs to call in the loyalty to Andrew and the NZ Council. Love him or loathe him, Greg helped win a lot of people power. Isn’t it time they repaid him and his group?

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