Open Mike 01/03/2016

101 comments on “Open Mike 01/03/2016 ”

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1. Paul 1

   1 March 2016 at 6:30 am

   1.8 million Chinese steel and coal workers being laid off. 15% of workforce.
   Just another statistic to show to oncoming collapse of the world economy.

   http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-employment-idUSKCN0W205X
   • vto 1.1

     1 March 2016 at 6:35 am

     But it should be ok because there is still the same amount of money in the world – it just needs a different means of distribution to ensure all are provided for …
     • AmaKiwi 1.1.1

       1 March 2016 at 10:04 am

       No, there is not the same amount of money.

       Example: My bank owns $1 billion in shares or bonds or mortgages in a companies/farms which go bust. Yesterday the shares, bonds, and mortgages were worth $1 billion. Today it is worthless. $1 billion has disappeared from the bank’s balance sheet. Will the bank be able to cash my cheque? That’s how banks go bust. Deflation.
       • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1

         1 March 2016 at 3:10 pm

         The moment when someone realises that when it comes to “cash or cash equivalents”, the “cash equivalents” are not like cash at all.
   • Murray Simmonds 1.2

     1 March 2016 at 1:20 pm

     China endures, Paul. China endures.
     • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1

       1 March 2016 at 9:48 pm

       Yep. Worlds oldest bureaucracy.
2. Paul 2

   1 March 2016 at 6:33 am

   And in New Zealanders farmers are on the brink.
   Dairy farm debt has reached $38 billion.
   More than one in 10 are already under pressure from banks over their mortgage.

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/297776/fears-banks-will-leave-farms-in-the-cold
   • vto 2.1

     1 March 2016 at 6:41 am

     Part of the coming restructure of our crumbling ponzi scheme banking system may be to require bank lending to rise and fall alongside the activities of the organisation lent to…. like a form of equity return rather than flat interest return which bears no relation to the activities lent to.

     The current system is, yet again, being highlighted as fundamentally flawed
     • Murray Simmonds 2.1.1

       1 March 2016 at 1:24 pm

       Thats a damned good idea, vto. Only trouble is it would require GOVERNMENTS to re-take control of the economy. And the banks ain’t about to allow that!
3. vto 3

   1 March 2016 at 7:09 am

   The government’s and trucking sector’s desire for bigger and heavier trucks makes such sense eh….

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/news/77382030/crash-between-a-car-and-a-truck-leaves-one-dead

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/77379469/patea-crash-tanker-driver-found-dead

   more death coming soon to a town near you

   ………………………………………………………
   • RedBaronCV 3.1

     1 March 2016 at 7:32 am

     Yep more deaths but it’s so much easier to blame everything and everybody else for road deaths – young people, 4 km over the limit people etc etc.
     Now at least we know that the ACC levy reductions for safer cars are a complete load of tripe designed to benefit the those who can afford expensive late model cars -it’s what hits you that matters.

     And how much more expensive bridge strengthening is going to be loaded onto us taxpayers and ratepayers so the extra tonnage can cross over – figures from the government please?
4. Tautoko Mangō Mata 4

   1 March 2016 at 7:58 am

   New Study Confirms: Private “Trade” Courts Serve the Ultra-Wealthy

   Smaller companies and less-wealthy individuals don’t benefit nearly as much from these private courts as the extremely rich and powerful do. Other interested parties – whether they’re governments, children, working people, or the planet itself – are unable to benefit from these private courts at all.

   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/new-study-confirms-privat_b_9348238.html
   • Tautoko Mangō Mata 4.1

     1 March 2016 at 8:50 am

     “Op-Ed The jobs tradeoffs in the TPP trade deal”

     The model of the global economy Peterson used, the study explains, “assumes that the TPP will affect neither total employment nor the national savings (or equivalently trade balances) of countries.”

     Using these assumptions the following can be deduced

     The money foreigners might have spent on our cars and other manufactured goods will instead be used to pay Pfizer higher prices for its drugs.

     http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0225-baker-trans-pacific-trade-20160225-story.html

     Likewise in NZ, the TPP favours financially just a few at the expense of the rest of the citizens. At same time, the TPP inflicts a host of rules and regulations requiring Government, Local Government, SOEs etc to pay for legal help to get through the potential litigation minefield. The “right to regulate” will be kneecapped by the extrajudicial ISDS “chill”.
   • ianmac 4.2

     1 March 2016 at 8:52 am

     A good basis for a submission re TPPA. Only super big corporations stand to benefit from those insidious “private Trade Courts.” Well spotted TMM.
     • Tautoko Mangō Mata 4.2.1

       1 March 2016 at 9:26 am

       TPP: Although not a new article, this piece is useful for those who are making submissions. I particularly like the way the author, Michael Reddell expresses his concerns.

       Some of the things I’m most uneasy about are matters of principle. I think it is simply wrong that foreign investors should have access to different courts than New Zealand firms and individuals do in respect of issues relating to their activities in New Zealand. Equal and common access to justice should be a foundational principle of our longstanding democracy – no doubt things might be different in the brutal and corrupt communist regime that is our new treaty partner Vietnam . This isn’t an argument about how many claims there will ever be against New Zealand (probably few), but simply about differential access to justice. Our Courts should be open to all who seek justice in New Zealand (and open more generally), and there should be no special jurisdictions for favoured parties. And New Zealand law should be made by the New Zealand Parliament, with any interested parties (domestic or foreign) free to make their cases in the public debate here.

       He then goes on in depth about Temporary Safeguard Measures in Chapter 29 Exceptions and General Provisions.
       http://croakingcassandra.com/2015/11/09/temporary-safeguards-crises-and-tpp/
       There is concern about this issue in Australia.
       http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2016/02/29/Australias-national-interest-statement-on-TPP-neglects-capital-control-risks.aspx
       • ianmac 4.2.1.1

         1 March 2016 at 10:51 am

         Maybe “they” see that we must accept the loss of sovereignty as being the price we pay for playing with the big boys of Global Market. But I doubt that Key and his team will even acknowledge that there is a loss.
5. cowboy 5

   1 March 2016 at 8:23 am

   Todd Barclay haemorrhaging support in Clutha Southland.

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/77386997/national-party-cluthasouthland-chairman-stuart-davie-resigns

   How long before Bill English is required to step in and steady the ship?
   • Colonial Viper 5.1

     1 March 2016 at 10:36 am

     English must already be involved in the background, but hasn’t been able to calm things down enough to prevent escalation. Not a good sign for Toddy Barclay’s political future.
     • Stuart Munro 5.1.1

       1 March 2016 at 12:06 pm

       Up in low tar smoke.
6. Sabine 6

   1 March 2016 at 8:38 am

   medicinal cannabis for OZ, maybe now our Politicians find some guts and glory?

   https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/australia-to-legalise-growing-of-medicinal-marijuana

   not holding my breath tho.
7. Gabby 7

   1 March 2016 at 9:11 am

   Wee Toddy would insist that his staff be part paid in snout, and made them promise to inhale.
   • Cowboy 7.1

     1 March 2016 at 9:27 am

     Barclay could try to sweep staff resignation under carpet with statements about “employment matters” but when his Electorate Chairman ,who is a highly regarded salt of earth Southlander, walks a month before scheduled AGM then he is in real strife.
     • Colonial Viper 7.1.1

       1 March 2016 at 10:34 am

       And that’s an understatement.

       Would love to know if English is making calls around his old electorate on behalf of his protege.
     • Olwyn 7.1.2

       1 March 2016 at 11:07 am

       I don’t know that neck of the woods at all well, but I wonder if it has to do with town mouse-country mouse tensions within National. John Key is clearly a town mouse with town mouse priorities, and I wonder if they are putting up inexperienced people in places like Southland so that they have someone to blame when the good old country mouse gets shortchanged. If I am right, then it’s a bit tricky for English, who has a foot in both camps.
       • Cowboy 7.1.2.1

         1 March 2016 at 12:29 pm

         It’s very similar to Northland. Nats have taken Southland for granted and were content to blood an unsuitable but ultra abitious rookie who thought he could bide his time quietly doing photo ops until he qualified for cabinet. Unfortunately for him locals actually want someone to advocate for them. Times are due to get very tough in this neck of woods as the dairy and sheep downturn really starts to bite ,so we will see how Barclay measures up. Given his own comittee are abandoning him the signs aren’t good.
         • Stuart Munro 7.1.2.1.1

           1 March 2016 at 1:11 pm

           This is the conversation PR was at pains to derail the other day – whether the Key kleptocracy has served their country voter base well. I expect the 20% or so of farmers poised to lose their properties will not think so. Aspiring young farmers watching our land being inflated and snapped up by offshore buyers are probably not too happy either.
           • cowboy 7.1.2.1.1.1

             1 March 2016 at 2:28 pm

             Dead right Stuart and that will all be playing out around election time. Even Nathan Guy is starting to concede it.

             http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/dairy/77414152/farmers-getting-increasingly-desperate-bank-signals-it-wont-finance-some-debt

             This is the real story.

             http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201790904/the-dairy-downturn-starts-to-bite-in-rural-new-zealand

             Foreign investors will be all that stands in the way of a major land price correction. Either way its a major headache in the making for the Nats.
8. esoteric pineapples 8

   1 March 2016 at 9:11 am

   In regards to Act’s David Seymour arguing that ACT is more Green than the Green Party, I don’t know that anyone has looked deeply at his comment that there should be more private business involvement in the administration of the conservation estate.

   “It’s unclear exactly what that will include, but is expected to centre on Government incentives to increase private environmental custodianship, and moves to better define ownership.”

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/77288879/david-seymour-launches-attack-on-greens-says-theyre-doing-bugger-all-for-the-environment

   I think this should be linked into what is happening in the United States where the Koch brothers (and others?) are actively funding groups like the Bundys who recently took over a nature reserve with the aim of privatising the conservation estate in the United States,

   http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2016/02/11/3748602/koch-brothers-funding-bundy-agenda/

   Sections of the Republican Party are also supporting this.

   http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/01/ken-ivory-federal-land-bundy
   • AmaKiwi 8.1

     1 March 2016 at 10:09 am

     When ACT puts in their manifesto that protection of the environment is far more important than corporate profits I might start to listen to them.
     • Gosman 8.1.1

       1 March 2016 at 11:47 am

       So if you put those words in a manifesto you somehow magically become super environmentalist do you? I think it is more to do with the outcome of your policies rather than what you say before hand.
9. ianmac 9

   1 March 2016 at 9:28 am

   Mike Yardley wrote this in relation to whether Key Team are shoulder tapping prominent people to support the flag change:
   “They’ve clearly had to work a long way down the food chain, because even I was propositioned. A senior Government member telephoned me, to sound me out about overtly cheerleading for change. I declined – but was somewhat mystified , given my long-standing support for flag retention. ”
   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/the-flag-debate/77381443/mike-yardley-flag-change-campaign-has-been-farcical
   • AmaKiwi 9.1

     1 March 2016 at 10:11 am

     National’s database ain’t perfect. I hope it includes a lot more errors.
   • ScottGN 9.2

     1 March 2016 at 10:15 am

     I love the way he calls out Shipley for being the total fucking hypocrite she is.
     • Grindlebottom 9.2.1

       1 March 2016 at 10:38 am

       +1. Exquisitely done.
   • Rosie 9.3

     1 March 2016 at 12:56 pm

     And spoken by a National Party voter too. There were a number of those in the comments section too, opposed to a flag change.

     Key’s hypocrisy as a Royal schmoozer and the one to bring back the outdated knighthood system, as discussed in that article, hasn’t gone unnoticed by the left or right. Here’s an article from yesterday also referring to that:

     http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/297717/has-the-pm-mistaken-himself-for-a-flag

     “How else to explain the informal alliance of lifelong republicans and ageing anti-establishment boomers with monarchists and RSA traditionalists? If anything unites these camps it seems less likely to be a shared loathing of the prime minister than a nose for what you might call a false dichotomy – an unnecessary choice between two inadequate options.”

     False dichotomy indeed. It IS an unnecessary choice between two inadequate options.

     Can’t wait till March is over and we can get this flag hoopla over and done with and see how Key is going to handle the defeat of his vanity project. My guess he will go for the petulant sulky style.
10. The Chairman 10

    1 March 2016 at 10:24 am

    Bernie Sanders trounces Hillary Clinton at first Super Tuesday contest – in Wellington

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/77402782/bernie-sanders-trounces-hillary-clinton-at-first-super-tuesday-contest–in-wellington
    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      1 March 2016 at 10:39 am

      These socialist leaning Kiwi Americans are practically communists…lol
      • The Chairman 10.1.1

        1 March 2016 at 12:45 pm

        They’re feeling the burn

        https://youtu.be/XQP6nzhi4s8
        • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1

          1 March 2016 at 12:48 pm

          And a singles dating website for Bernie Sanders supporters lol
      • weka 10.1.2

        1 March 2016 at 12:49 pm

        Must be Clinton Derangement Syndrome, no other explanation for it!
11. Sabine 11

    1 March 2016 at 11:03 am

    Maybe the left should not get inspired by the Trump
    • Grindlebottom 11.1

      1 March 2016 at 11:19 am

      Exactly. Everything about the man is as bullshit as his hairdo. Everybody arguing this guy should be US president should be required to see this video. If they still feel the same way afterward they should be taken out the back way, straitjacketed, and driven away in an ambulance for psychiatric evaluation.
      • Pasupial 11.1.1

        1 March 2016 at 11:35 am

        “It’s the sound produced when a morbidly obese pigeon flies into the window of a foreclosed old lady: Drumpf!”
        • aerobubble 11.1.1.1

          1 March 2016 at 3:04 pm

          He made his money… …inheriting it… …how could he lose in NY real estate… …the guy is all circumstance rather than substance, even become a name in reality tv.
      • Colonial Viper 11.1.2

        1 March 2016 at 12:45 pm

        I watched a bit over 10 mins of this and found it largely irrelevant in a nitpicking intellectual cleverly self congratulating lefty liberal kind of way.

        Pretty much it is stuff like this which will push Trump over the line on general election day.
        • Grindlebottom 11.1.2.1

          1 March 2016 at 12:56 pm

          Hmm. You should really have watched it all the way through. It’s not just satirical. But never mind, I’ve phoned for the ambulance. Do you mind just taking off your jacket and putting this one on?

          I do feel sorry for Americans. Their political system is obviously completely rooted.
          • Grindlebottom 11.1.2.1.1

            1 March 2016 at 1:08 pm

            Here y’ go….
            http://www.monkeydungeon.com/images/white-6-d-straight-jacket.gif
            • Colonial Viper 11.1.2.1.1.1

              1 March 2016 at 1:13 pm

              Ha!!!

              As I have said elsewhere, I’m for Trump and day in a head to head between him and that country destroying civilian droning closet sociopath Clinton.

              With Trump he’s not pretending to be something he’s not.
              • Grindlebottom …

                1 March 2016 at 1:33 pm

                You must be joking CV. Christ – his whole persona & business career is based on bullshit.

                What a choice Americans have. A screaming fucking nutcase or a faux liberal neocon of extremely dodgy character who’s suffered from convenient alzheimers ever since she married serial philanderer Bill Clinton.
                • Colonial Viper …

                  1 March 2016 at 1:40 pm

                  I didn’t say that Trump wasn’t full of shit.

                  I said that in a head to head against civilian droning, bankster embracing, Benghazi lying Hillary Clinton, I am going for Trump every time.
                  • Grindlebottom …

                    1 March 2016 at 1:45 pm

                    I know… I know… Would you please hold still so I can get these bloody straps done up properly…

                    You know, I don’t even know that much about the other Republican contenders. This clown Trump has sucked all the attention off everyone else.
                    • Andre …

                      1 March 2016 at 1:56 pm

                      Trust me, they’re even nastier pieces of work, but they try to put prettier faces on it. With Trump, there’s at least a chance he’ll do something neutral or even positive now and then, whereas the rest are entirely nasty from start to finish.

                      http://www.salon.com/2016/02/29/rubio_and_cruz_are_the_real_monsters_liberals_should_be_rooting_for_trump_and_hell_be_easier_to_beat_come_november/

                      Kasich is just as nasty as Cruz or Rubio, for all that he’s presented as “moderate”.
                    • Grindlebottom …

                      1 March 2016 at 2:18 pm

                      Cheers. I see your point.
          • Chooky 11.1.2.1.2

            1 March 2016 at 9:15 pm

            “I do feel sorry for Americans. Their political system is obviously completely rooted.”

            …this is why they have no faith in the Clintons or Bushes…
    • Andre 11.2

      1 March 2016 at 11:51 am

      How to handle Trump (or should that be Drumpf?)…

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-showed-how-to-take-down-donald-trump-five-years-ago-and-its-just-as-brutal-today_us_56d45adce4b0871f60ec03e6?utm_hp_ref=politics
      • Andre 11.2.1

        1 March 2016 at 12:04 pm

        Or even…

        http://www.cc.com/video-clips/73fxht/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-don-t-forget–donald-trump-wants-to-bang-his-daughter

        Yes, he went there.
        • Colonial Viper 11.2.1.1

          1 March 2016 at 12:26 pm

          If its Trump vs Clinton, my money is on Trump every time.
          • Andre 11.2.1.1.1

            1 March 2016 at 12:33 pm

            I’ve got no argument with your assessment of Clinton. But I really don’t think you appreciate how unencumbered Trump is by empathy or even the need to fake any other behavioural norms. He really could do anything on a whim, given the opportunity.
            • Colonial Viper 11.2.1.1.1.1

              1 March 2016 at 12:42 pm

              But I really don’t think you appreciate how unencumbered Trump is by empathy or even the need to fake any other behavioural norms.

              Exactly. I can agree with you on that.

              Trump may be an uncaring mean mouthed sonofabitch, but IMO he’s not a clever civilian murdering nation destroying bankster embracing closet sociopath like Clinton has already proven she is.
              • Andre …

                1 March 2016 at 1:41 pm

                Trump will just feel the need to prove he can do all those things too, but even more so. And he won’t even see why he should try to keep the sociopath in the closet.
                • Grindlebottom …

                  1 March 2016 at 2:02 pm

                  Exactly. Plus, Trump probably thinks sociopath is just another name for pavement.
          • Murray Simmonds 11.2.1.1.2

            1 March 2016 at 1:31 pm

            A bit like choosing between diarrhea and constipation, isn’t it?
            • Andre 11.2.1.1.2.1

              1 March 2016 at 1:37 pm

              Malaria or cholera
              • Colonial Viper …

                1 March 2016 at 3:08 pm

                I choose the gin and soda water.
            • Grindlebottom 11.2.1.1.2.2

              1 March 2016 at 2:04 pm

              lol. +1
          • joe90 11.2.1.1.3

            1 March 2016 at 3:21 pm

            my money is on Trump every time.

            Great company you’re keeping dude.
            /
            http://archive.li/6Gnb7/a54009bccb9327b0530528e307f8c04755c3e681.png
            • Colonial Viper 11.2.1.1.3.1

              1 March 2016 at 3:33 pm

              Doesn’t matter mate, because the alternative is Clinton: the bankster embracing, civilian droning, country destroying, regime changing, Empire of Chaos member of the ruling oligarch who charges US$250K for her big corporate speeches.
              • joe90 …

                1 March 2016 at 3:54 pm

                And Sanders is a dove, righto…
                /

                The attack on Kosovo is hardly the extent of Sanders’ hawkishness. While it’s true he voted against the Iraq War, he also voted in favor of authorizing funds for that war and the one in Afghanistan. More recently, he voted in favor of a $1 billion aid package for the coup government Ukraine and supported Israel’s assault on Gaza. At a town hall meeting he admitted that Israel may have “overreacted”, but blamed Hamas for the entire conflict. After a woman asked why he refused to condemn Israel’s actions, he told critics: “Excuse me! Shut up! You don’t have the microphone.”

                http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-troubling-history-supporting-us-military-violence-abroad

                http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/08/31/3697175/bernie-sanders-wouldnt-end-obamas-drone-program-promises-to-use-it-very-selectively/
                • Colonial Viper …

                  1 March 2016 at 4:09 pm

                  joe90, what’s your point? That Clinton is the best candidate for President out of some very limited options?

                  I would disagree with that position. Out of the Republicans Trump would be best for the world IMO, and out of the Democrats, it’s got to be Sanders.

                  Two old white men. But that’s the way it is this time around.
              • One Two …

                1 March 2016 at 4:14 pm

                Not withstanding that Hillary Rodham defended a child rapist in 1975
                • Colonial Viper …

                  1 March 2016 at 4:18 pm

                  yeah ok, but so? She was working as a public defender at the time I guess? so it was her job.

                  more relevant to me is that the Clintons, both of them, have overseen foreign policy which has led to the death of millions, including supplying advanced US arms to Israel which used them to kill hundreds of Palestinian children.
                  • One Two …

                    1 March 2016 at 4:35 pm

                    It’s all the same journey involving familiar names

                    All the candidates are establishment. That is not a question

                    The Clintons are compromised and controlled. That is not a question

                    Who will be the lesser evil doer as POTUS. That is not a question

                    How can all of this stopped. That is a question
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      1 March 2016 at 4:56 pm

                      Ahhhh, you are interested in the big question(s), not the question of which party/candidate represents the lesser evil.

                      This century, “how can all of this be stopped” is the biq question indeed. Because stop, it will, one way or another.
    • The Chairman 11.3

      1 March 2016 at 12:38 pm

      George H.W. Bush Throat Cut Gesture To Trump (CNN GOP Debate Houston, Texas)

      https://youtu.be/rx35I7Yb2Xc
      • Chooky 11.3.1

        1 March 2016 at 9:09 pm

        +100 The Chairman…the verdict of history has yet to be written on George H Bush , his sons and the Clintons

        Trump is a threat alright!
      • Chooky 11.3.2

        1 March 2016 at 9:47 pm

        An interview with Roger Stone on his recent book ‘Jeb! And the Bush Crime family’

        https://www.rt.com/shows/watching-the-hawks/332840-petition-march-white-house/
    • ianmac 11.4

      1 March 2016 at 12:55 pm

      Is there anyone on the NZ scene who gives answers in slightly ambiguous form but designed to suit what the audience wants to hear? No?
12. Andre 12

    1 March 2016 at 12:47 pm

    This one’s for b waghorn.

    When I saw it, I was reminded of your rant about Fletcher’s a while ago. Vocabulary is a bit limited, but more than makes up for it with the delivery.

    Definitely NSFW, especially since it’s best appreciated with the volume up loud.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/02/25/pebble-cockatoo-swearing-saskatoon_n_9322066.html?utm_hp_ref=green&ir=Green
    • b waghorn 12.1

      1 March 2016 at 5:32 pm

      Its a shame the parrots around here are not that funny.
13. Bob 13

    1 March 2016 at 2:19 pm

    Great comment on the flag change on a Stuff article yesterday:

    “the NZ public has never had a vote to decide their flag.
    therefore there was no robust process, other than parliamentarians debating in the House. Hardly a chance for the masses to have their say.

    I have never stated the opinions of my grandparents, and i dare say if i did ask them, Since they all sailed to NZ in the early 1900’s, they would all swear allegiance to the Union Jack, and i do not begrudge them than.

    My children on the other hand, were born here. All of the athletes that they hold as role models, Silver ferns, Black Caps, Rowing, Track and field and yes, the All Blacks etc wear the fern with Pride. Our national Airline, flys the fern on it’s tail. My passport is black, and has a fern motif on it.

    So, so answer your question, have i considered the argument. Yes i have. I was born in NZ. i do associate with the Silver Fern more than i have ever associated with the Union jack. The Fern is on my money, my passport, my licence plate, the airline i use and the chests, hats and bags of athletes i cheer on.

    I do not in anyway begrudge or hold contempt for the Union Jack flag in any way. It is a great flag for the people of Great Britan to fly and to rally to. But it is the flag of Great Britan….Even England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales have their own flags to fly for their own people.”
    • aerobubble 13.1

      1 March 2016 at 3:08 pm

      But wait a moment. Its not the fern alone, the sourthern cross..

      …canada simplicity of the maple leaf, is not clutered by two different symbols on one flag.
      • Bob 13.1.1

        1 March 2016 at 3:16 pm

        I don’t understand your argument, are you saying we shouldn’t move to the silver fern and southern cross because it is more complicated than the union jack and southern cross?
        Are you saying that you identify more as a NZer with the union jack on your flag than the silver fern?
        Or are you saying we should just have the silver fern alone, like John Key wanted?
        • McFlock 13.1.1.1

          1 March 2016 at 3:32 pm

          It’s only a “silver fern” because they call it a “silver fern”.
          In reality it’s a stylised white fern frond that might be found on any continent (including Antarctica if you count fossils).

          The thing about the current one is that it is two seperate and distinct symbols, both highly relevant to NZ (our government and our location) on a maritime blue background that sort of shows the expanse of ocean around us.

          The alternative:
          Black… coz rugby?
          Generic fernly thing, NOT a silver fern
          Weird bright blue/sky blue depending on printing errors, because… sky?
          Southern cross – well they got that bit ok
          And the symbols overlap messily, not being distinct elements of a whole.

          Basically, a reasonable argument can be made about the symolism of the current flag. The alternative is more contrived.

          Although my main reason for voting for the status quo is simply to fuck off tories.
          • Bob 13.1.1.1.1

            2 March 2016 at 9:03 am

            The alternatve:

            Black – cos all blacks, black ferns, tall blacks, black caps, the black outfits almost all of our athletes wear when representing our country, the colour that most people outside of New Zealand would associate with us.

            Generic fernly thing – Because all flags are stylised! Do you think the maple leaf on the Canadian flag is biologically accurate?

            Blue – Again represents the ocean around us

            Southern Cross – Points the way home

            Messy overlap – Kind of like creating a flag then stuffing the union jack in the top left hand corner?

            voting for the status quo is simply to fuck off tories – You’re doing it wrong, true tories are against the change, so you trying to be smart by being a fuckwit is actually supporting the people you claim to be against. That’s a bit like the TPP protestor lining up in McDonald’s for a feed, irony at its best.
            • McFlock 13.1.1.1.1.1

              2 March 2016 at 10:59 am

              black: the colour most people outside of NZ associate with ISIS and darth vader.

              The maple leaf is stylised, but still distinctly a maple leaf. Not any one of 12,000-odd fern species

              Blue: which blue? Bright blue? Pale blue? The ocean is dark blue. Deep dark blue in the deep seas surrounding us.

              Messy overlap: clear separation between element sections in current flag. No horizontal or vertical separation in the alternative. Cluttered. Messy.

              Voting for the status quo fucks key. He placed his support around the alternative. He is their only drawcard. He loses prestige, they lose the election. They get fucked off.
14. Sabine 14

    1 March 2016 at 4:23 pm

    oh well, can’t make this shit up.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/trump-jr-offers-to-pay-for-black-celebrities-to-leave-us-when-president-trump-is-elected/

    what ever, surely he will be better then Hillary and all the others cause he has yet to bomb someone.
    Well, we get to see how trigger happy he is once he has got one of the largest nuclear arsenals at his disposition. Fun games for all of us.
    • Colonial Viper 14.1

      1 March 2016 at 4:58 pm

      Trump has been resolutely resistant to demonising Putin and joining the Pentagon and NATO in sabre rattling against Russia. That’s a good start for avoiding WWIII.
      • Grindlebottom 14.1.1

        1 March 2016 at 5:43 pm

        Donald says Putin said Trump’s “a genius and he’s gonna be the leader of the party and he’s gonna be the leader of the world or something”.

        The Trumpster then says that they’ll probably get along fine just as long as Putin doesn’t take advantage of him like he takes advantage of Obama; “Nobody’s gonna take advantage of me folks”.

        http://www.reuters.com/video/2016/02/17/trump-putin-called-me-a-genius?videoId=367432272

        Of course Putin’s gonna “take advantage” of this dork: then it’s anybody’s guess what the bombastic dickhead is likely to do.
        • Colonial Viper 14.1.1.1

          1 March 2016 at 5:54 pm

          *Shrug*

          Liberal lefties can scream at Trump all they want, it won’t make fuck all difference.

          A lot of people in the US have had it with the post modern liberal lefty agenda.

          Personally, I think Trump’s statements that Russia is doing a good job annihilating Islamic terrorists in Syria and the US shouldn’t be getting in the way of Putin hitting terrorist enemies of the US, is damn sensible.
          • Grindlebottom 14.1.1.1.1

            1 March 2016 at 6:03 pm

            Yes I think that’s a very smart approach as well. But…where do you think he thinks Putin is taking advantage of Obama? Because that’s the kind of weird, egotistical bully boy double-talk he comes out with all the time.
            • Colonial Viper 14.1.1.1.1.1

              1 March 2016 at 6:24 pm

              Just remember that Trump is trying to appeal to primary vote wielding Republican delegates at this stage. Hating on Obama for being “weak” is an instant winning message amongst this crowd.

              TL/DR Trump is playing primary politics.
              • Grindlebottom …

                1 March 2016 at 7:39 pm

                Oh well, it’s the 2016 quadrennial US Presidential Electoral Cycle. Must be the biggest & longest running electoral circus in the world. The actual election’s not until 8 November. A lot can happen between now & then.

                There’s nothing we can do meantime but sit back and watch the show. Way too early to tell who is gonna come out the winner. When it comes to digging up & chucking around dirt closer to the actual election Trump should have the edge on Hillers if they’re the two finalists. Just from reading Wikipedia there’s a lot of material to work with there.
          • nadis 14.1.1.1.2

            1 March 2016 at 8:54 pm

            So if Russia indiscriminately bombs civilians that’s ok, but if the USA does it (generally less discriminately), that is not?

            One set of morals for Russia, a different set for the USA?
            • Colonial Viper 14.1.1.1.2.1

              1 March 2016 at 9:06 pm

              The US has caused the deaths of approx 2M Muslims since 1990. Most of them civilians.

              Russia has also done some pretty unpleasant stuff in the same timeframe but its a rounding error.
      • sabine 14.1.2

        1 March 2016 at 6:05 pm

        bwhahahahashahahahahahah

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1Ng7PF7ru4

        yeah right tui.
        • Colonial Viper 14.1.2.1

          1 March 2016 at 6:27 pm

          Trump says:

          Putin has a tremendous popularity in Russia. I was over in Moscow 2 years ago. I’ll tell you what, I tell you, you can get along with those people and get along with them well. You can do deals with them. But Obama can’t…I’d be willing to bet that I would have a great relationship with Putin.

          And Trump is willing to say this to the red meat Republican crowd on Fox.
          • Chooky 14.1.2.1.1

            1 March 2016 at 8:59 pm

            +100 CV…to all your comments on this
15. The Other Mike 15

    1 March 2016 at 9:42 pm

    Can I believe this?

    Gangs cost $714m in welfare
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/77419828/gangs-cost-714m-in-welfare-report-reveals-as-new-intelligence-centre-launched

    Is it Collins dog whistle party leadership yada yada yada
    • DoublePlusGood 15.1

      1 March 2016 at 11:37 pm

      Best set up a legalised market for drugs then, to tank the profits of gangs.
    • The Chairman 15.2

      2 March 2016 at 8:20 am

      “Gangs cost $714m in welfare”

      Around 9 out of 10 members in Grey Power are on a pension.
      • The Other Mike 15.2.1

        2 March 2016 at 9:04 am

        LOL yeah… real baaad gang that one! Drug dealers too… and they consume 2/3rds of the imports of Ibuprofen. Outrageous!

        Actually Crusher got double value dog whistle from this one – with “gangs” and “beneficiaries” in the same sentence. The future PM is tough on lawn order, dontcha know.

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