Open Mike 08/09/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 8th, 2018 - 154 comments
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154 comments on “Open Mike 08/09/2018 ”

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  1. mac1 1
    8 September 2018 at 7:59 am

    Here’s a reason why America is as it is and why it won’t ever be great again so long as men think like this.

    Steam rises from Mrs mac1 as I read her extracts from this article just as the steam rises from an evaporating frost outside.

    https://relevantmagazine.com/god/church/4400-pastors-have-signed-john-macarthurs-anti-social-justice-proclamation/

    Basically, don’t go looking to the Bible for support if you are concerned about social issues nor to the pastors who have signed this document, especially if you are gay, a married woman, or racially oppressed.

    All signatories to the document are men.

  2. Ed 2
    8 September 2018 at 8:53 am

    As ever, George Galloway nails it.
    ‘He systematically tore the Skripal story to shreds.
    I defy anyone to listen to it and still believe everything we’ve been told.’

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2EM_-26KbSs

    • James 2.1
      8 September 2018 at 9:35 am

      Still in denial huh Ed.

      You need a tin foil hat.

      • Ed 2.1.1
        8 September 2018 at 10:28 am

        Avoiding discussing the Skripals, I see.
        Diverting by shooting the messenger. I see.
        Using smears to deflect the issue. I see.

      • Grey Area 2.1.2
        8 September 2018 at 12:20 pm

        Stalking as usual I see James.

      • dukeofurl 2.1.3
        8 September 2018 at 4:03 pm

        James cant explain why the Skripals turned their phones off when they left the house , so no cell phone tracking and somehow SIS didnt have any high res video of their 3hrs around Salisbury that day.
        Funnily enough plenty of high res video of two men as they did the same thing. Even just looking in a store window , high res. Must be coincidence Salisbury doesnt have any older low res cameras

        Skripal was a GRU Colonel who had worked undercover in Spain and knew about spycraft. These 2 men are said to be GRU undercover operatives as well but would have broken all the rules you could get from any decent spy movie.

    • te reo putake 2.2
      8 September 2018 at 10:23 am

      Dear old George. Is he still pro rape? Still taking money to cover up for the Iranian regime’s persecution of gays? Or does he not have time for those things now he’s working for Rupert Murdoch?

      • Ed 2.2.1
        8 September 2018 at 10:27 am

        Avoiding discussing the Skripals, I see.
        Diverting by shooting the messenger. I see.

        • te reo putake 2.2.1.1
          8 September 2018 at 10:32 am

          Avoiding the issue of your ‘messenger’ being an arse? Tick.

          • Ed 2.2.1.1.1
            8 September 2018 at 12:51 pm

            What is your view about the Skripals?

          • Ed 2.2.1.1.2
            8 September 2018 at 1:07 pm

            You are an author on this site, so I am not free to make comments about your views.
            Yet you are free to make the most objectionable comments about things I post.

            • te reo putake 2.2.1.1.2.1
              8 September 2018 at 1:41 pm

              Actually, Ed, you are free to comment on my views. It’s just that you are not allowed to get personal. That’s to protect the authors, who are this site’s greatest resource. It takes time and effort to write posts and monitor responses and TS has always been harsh on those who discourage writers.

              Personally, I’m pretty tolerant of people responding with howls of outrage to my occasional provocations. Your tears sustain me, as Stewie Griffin would have it 😉

              And, generally, if a comment crosses the line, I usually just flick it into spam or give a warning.

              So write whatever you want, Ed, but moderate yourself, so others don’t have to.

              • gsays …
                8 September 2018 at 2:33 pm

                Ok… from where I sit TRP, I feel there is an obligation for us to operate at a higher level.
                Me because I have grey hairs and you because you are senior figure here (author, moderator and clearly experienced around issues concerning workers).

                There is a request for us to be kind to each other. This community becomes better when we practice tolerance, even if that means ignoring someone.

                I get there can be frustration with some folk and their issues.
                When people are hit with the ‘rape explorer’s stick it just shuts down conversation and debate.
                E.g. I don’t take part in wikileaks stuff because by definition I support rape.

                • Ed …
                  8 September 2018 at 3:19 pm

                  I’d be more impressed by trp’s argument we’re he to address the actual points by Galloway rather than use smears and insults about Galloway as a response.

                  Galloway ( and others) question the mainstream narrative.

                  Here is part of his argument.

                  “The first reason to be skeptical is that it has taken six months to publish these images. With the huge numbers of highly experienced and able counter-terrorism officers on this case it must or at least could have been possible for these suspects to have been identified and publicized long before now.

                  there are other reasons for skepticism.

                  According to the timeline released today, the two men arrived in Salisbury at 2.25 pm on Saturday, the day before the attack, and left for London at 4.10 pm. This is described in the British media as a “reconnaissance” trip. What kind of “reconnaissance” is that? This timeline is much more suggestive of a meeting with someone else in Salisbury. It could have been for the collection of the chemical weapon – traces of that we are NOW told have been found in the tiny down-market and geographically inconvenient “hotel” in east London in which the men are said to have stayed – or identification of an accomplice or even a controller.

                  On that subject, it is said that after the deadly attack the two men relied on the notoriously unreliable Sunday train service to get them – just and no more – to Heathrow to catch their flight back to Moscow. If these are intelligence officers, the Russian state intelligence services have certainly lost the plot.

                  ….The recklessness of then discarding the chemical weapon in a perfume bottle just thrown away in the centre of Salisbury (which has killed one and may yet kill another victim) the carelessness about their egress from the country, the highly suspicious to fly from and back directly to Moscow, the failure to actually kill their targets all point away from Russian Intelligence as the culprits rather than point at them.

                  And above all the big political question of why the Russian state would carry out such a convoluted (simpler to kill their target with a plastic bag over his head) murder plot a week before the presidential election and 100 days before the World Cup rather than at any other time remains unasked never mind answered.”

                  Listen to Galloway’s brilliant demolition of the official fairytale from 9:00

                  https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=543s&v=2EM_-26KbSs

                  • dukeofurl …
                    8 September 2018 at 4:11 pm

                    Dont forget the London Hotel/boarding house owner just knew about the ‘GRU Two’ the day before it was made public.

                    You would have thought the SIS/Police would have cordoned the place off immediately they knew they had stayed there – ‘to protect the public’

                    “Detectives from Scotland Yard first arrived at the City Stay Hotel in Bow, east London, on May 4 ” But didnt tell the owner why . So no Hazmat suits needed at all . How fortunate.

                    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6139871/Owner-hotel-Russians-hid-novichok-told-police-killer-guests-YESTERDAY.html

                    • Ed …
                      8 September 2018 at 4:20 pm

                      If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

                    • McFlock …
                      8 September 2018 at 5:05 pm

                      The lack of guests and staff associated with the hotel coming down with nerve agent poisoning in the interim might be a clue, that.

                      The idea that every aspect of an ongoing criminal investigation should be publicly released as and when it appears is equally farcical. As is the idea that police seeking information about suspects should also release the same information about victims.

                      The conceit is mind-boggling.

              • Ed …
                8 September 2018 at 3:28 pm

                I just wonder whether you think your comment at 2.2 crossed the line?
                I do.

          • Macro 2.2.1.1.3
            8 September 2018 at 2:06 pm

            But TRP – GG pulls the “truth” from his arse every day!

        • James 2.2.1.2
          8 September 2018 at 10:43 am

          The irony of you posting that is the funniest thing on the internet today.

    • Stuart Munro 3.1
      8 September 2018 at 9:07 am

      At the very least it should cost them their license.

    • marty mars 3.2
      8 September 2018 at 9:32 am

      I’d close them down, fine them heavily and send all directors and senior managers to PD for 200 hours each at least.

    • Graeme 3.3
      8 September 2018 at 9:55 am

      The unfortunate reality of this consent breach, if it was even that, is that it was rather minor and appears to relate to data transmission from the meter on the take to the Council. The amount of water concerned was less than 1% of their annual consented take, and was still measured on other meters within the plant.

      But good on Council for picking it up and acting. Whether this was deliberate, or just an error that was picked up during the commissioning process only the company will know.

      This outfit does appear to have rather “loose” practices, but are they any worse than a lot of locally owned outfits, just coming under greater scrutiny because of who they are and what they are doing. That said, the guy standing on the forklift, legs spread, welding, is the height of muppetry, didn’t they have a pallet at least.

  4. cleangreen 4
    8 September 2018 at 9:35 am

    In reality the Chinese want to be a global owner of many counties not just China now once they have tasted “capitalism” they are hooked.

    They already own most of our forests and farm land expansion of “feedlot” factory farms are expanding under their purchases now are the biggest expansion in NZ.
    And why are they buying this???

    They are first buying farms to use as “finishing units to feed to milk processing factories to feed their own Chinese so eventually they will cut out or take over our entire dairy industry.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/82568204/chinese-company-majority-investor-in-200m-southland-dairy-plant

    • Ad 4.1
      8 September 2018 at 10:03 am

      The Chinese have been great for Auckland, for its cultures, for its economies, and for us all. And they continue to be.

      If you don’t like their investment in the milk industry, you might want to pop down and talk to the people of Gore.

      • marty mars 4.1.1
        8 September 2018 at 10:09 am

        What would the people of Gore say, “Yay thanks to the overseas investors we can buy the latest car and tractor – sure we can’t employ kiwis or anyone who doesn’t want minimum wage and minimum conditions but hey we are making MONEY for ourselves, well not really we are making money for others but… yay…

        • Ad 4.1.1.1
          8 September 2018 at 10:39 am

          They would say, and they have, we are pleased to be given the opportunity to be minority shareholders in a business of the scale that we simply could not have done ourselves.

          They would also say, and they have, they they welcome the opportunity to have some close competition for their milk supply against Fonterra’s monolithic Edendale plant just 10k’s or so down the road.

          They would also say, along with the good citizens of Mataura, thanks for the awesome job opportunities at that plant.

          I don’t have to like the dominance of foreign investment – Chinese or otherwise – but I strongly suspect that the good people of Southland are greatly appreciative.

          • marty mars 4.1.1.1.1
            8 September 2018 at 11:03 am

            links please

            • greywarshark 4.1.1.1.1.1
              8 September 2018 at 11:13 am

              Ad mentioned Mataura which used to produce photocopying paper.
              Now it doesn’t. This piece by Victoria University:
              The Cyclopedia of New Zealand [Otago & Southland Provincial Districts]
              The Mataura Paper Mills
              tells about its history and probably useful in understanding Ad’s point about investment realities and the jobs that come from good ones.

              http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-Cyc04Cycl-t1-body1-d7-d123-d41.html

              • Ad …
                8 September 2018 at 12:49 pm

                It’s a century of heavy industrial waste from a paper plant, wool scourer, freezing works, and more. Done by New Zealanders into that environment for a century.

          • marty mars 4.1.1.1.2
            8 September 2018 at 11:11 am

            “A state-owned Chinese company is investing in a Southland company to build a $200 million dairy processing plant with the promise of creating 100 new jobs.”

            wow 100

            “Mataura Valley Milk has announced China Animal Husbandry Group (CAHB) will have a 71.8 per cent stake in the plant, 20 per cent will be held by Southland farm suppliers and the remainder by Hamilton-based milk powder company BODCO and Mataura directors.”

            okkkkay

            “Based in Beijing and in operation since 1982, CAHB produces veterinary medicines, feeds, feed additives, herbages, milk powder, whey powder, pet food, and seeds. It has annual revenues of $1.6 billion and more than 10,000 employees, and wholly or partially holds 10 subsidiary companies operating inside China.”

            1.6 Billion – wow

            “Of the promised jobs, 60 would be created in Gore and 40 in the BODCO business in Hamilton.”

            oh only 60 jobs for Gore now…

            “Federated Farmers spokesman Allan Baird said they were likely to be Fonterra suppliers because they would be cashed up after selling their shares. Open Country was the other player in the district, but less significant.

            Baird said he was cautious about the proposal.

            “I’m concerned about the high level of offshore investment, I would have preferred to see it sourced more from local funding.”

            There was also “plenty of stainless steel” in Southland, with Fonterra’s Edendale drying plant not working to full capacity.”

            oh dear

            “While Southland representatives were positive about the investment, NZ First leader Winston Peters called it a saddening pattern where offshore investors were coming into New Zealand and taking over its export industry.

            In the space of three years Chinese investors had taken over the New Zealand infant formula industry and now companies wanting to export formula into China had to get Chinese government approval, he said.

            “This country built it’s dairy industry itself, it became world leaders all by itself … the Chinese aren’t world leaders.”

            As a consequence, this deal was selling “our people and our interests” down the drain, he said.

            “I’m just very saddened to hear it, particularly of Southland which is one of our great export regions.””

            hmmm – yeah Advantage – Gore people are fizzing about it lol

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/82568204/chinese-company-majority-investor-in-200m-southland-dairy-plant

            • Ad 4.1.1.1.2.1
              8 September 2018 at 11:28 am

              – 60 jobs in Gorrrrrre is a lot of jobs. They already have close to zero unemployment already.

              – Southland reps were positive. Noted

              – Not Winston, who hails from the far north and when he last pulled a cows tit complained when Glenmorangie didn’t spray out.

              • greywarshark …
                8 September 2018 at 12:01 pm

                Do you personally know that it is his favourite tipple? Possibly I am nearer a NZ biased one with Kahlua which can be made using NZ made vodka and cream I think.

              • marty mars …
                8 September 2018 at 12:07 pm

                yes as suspected – just cos you visit Wanaka for your skiing holidays 3 times a year doesn’t mean you have an ear to the ground down south mate.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1.3
            8 September 2018 at 11:57 am

            They would say, and they have, we are pleased to be given the opportunity to be minority shareholders in a business of the scale that we simply could not have done ourselves.

            Except for the minor technicality that they could have.

            They would also say, and they have, they they welcome the opportunity to have some close competition for their milk supply against Fonterra’s monolithic Edendale plant just 10k’s or so down the road.

            They could have done that too.

            They would also say, along with the good citizens of Mataura, thanks for the awesome job opportunities at that plant.

            If they’d done it themselves they would have had even better opportunities.

            I don’t have to like the dominance of foreign investment – Chinese or otherwise – but I strongly suspect that the good people of Southland are greatly appreciative.

            Yes because people should always be appreciative of those stealing from them.

            • Ad 4.1.1.1.3.1
              8 September 2018 at 12:38 pm

              That’s a really, really big reality that the anti-foreigner left never ever gets.

              When Synlait was first proposed, the founders sought New Zealand investment. Nowhere near enough interest. Chinese investors stepped in.

              When Silver Ferm Farm cooperative was put to the vote about whether to agree to be majority sold to foreigners, rather than keep the cooperative locally controlled by raising local capital, local farmers said: welcome.

              In the Gore example, New Zealand investors were able to hold on to 20%.

              In short, the local agricultural investors and local farmers of New Zealand willingly embrace foreign investment and given the opportunity often avoid being more than simply suppliers.

              Sure, there’s always a few romantics still out there who talk about foreigners owning us. I don’t like it either.

              But given every opportunity to do otherwise, the local farmers accede to foreign investment.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                8 September 2018 at 12:58 pm

                When Synlait was first proposed, the founders sought New Zealand investment. Nowhere near enough interest.

                And that’s a failure of the entire western style ‘investment’ infrastructure.

                Would be much better if the people who want to start a business could go to the state investment bank and borrow the money at 0% interest. Same thing happens – the money is created ex-nihilo and spent into the economy. Just gets rid of the bludging by the banks and shareholders.

                But given every opportunity to do otherwise, the local farmers accede to foreign investment.

                Then we need to remove that opportunity from them. Selling off the country to foreign owners is not good for our nation.

              • Stuart Munro …
                8 September 2018 at 5:20 pm

                That’s because successive governments made it possible in the first place. And failed to support NZ incomes to allow local investment in the second.
                “We the people” didn’t ask for either thing – it has been imposed upon us, and it will only make things worse for us.

                • Ad …
                  8 September 2018 at 5:41 pm

                  The Synlait investment proposal was a free choice.

                  The Silver Ferm Farms sale was a free vote.

                  The Gore investment proposal was a free choice, and taken up.

                  We can do the usual melancholic dreams about if only we’d bought in then …..

                  But no. That really didn’t happen. We all made choices and they have consequences. Sure, Rogernomics was far too far and too fast. 30 years ago. The facts have changed from being a high ownership state. It’s just never coming back. Free election after free election for 30 years we did not vote in a renationalization government.

                  The best we can possibly get of major game now is small percentages. This government can’t right that. It’s doing something with legislation about foreign ownership in housing.

                  In reality, it’s my fellow New Zalanders that sold up and sold out.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    8 September 2018 at 7:17 pm

                    I never supported Rogergnomics – I knew it would be a complete failure.

                    I don’t support any of these fucking stupid policies selling our land or assets off shore Rogergnomics legalized. Never have and never will.

                    I want parties in parliament to likewise act against these policies, as is my democratic right and expectation.

                    But no, they’re selling me out again.

                    They pissed away our jobs.

                    They pissed away sustainable assets like forests & fisheries.

                    And they can do that.

                    But they should not expect to be respected for this manifest failure to carry out the function for which they exist.

                    • In Vino …
                      8 September 2018 at 8:43 pm

                      Ditto, Stuart, I suspected the same. As they deregulated everything, I thought to myself, “Now why did those regulations come about in the first place?”
                      We know now, don’t we?

      • greywarshark 4.1.2
        8 September 2018 at 10:30 am

        The people of Gore can capitalise on the amazing bequest they have from:

        https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/gore-based-gallery-benefit-dunedin-man%E2%80%99s-bequest
        In his will, Mr Smith, who died on March 2, bequeathed the works representing half a century of art collecting and spanning 120 years of southern artists to the gallery with which he and his partner of 53 years, Mr Yallop, had strong links.

        Gallery director Jim Geddes, who is a long-term family friend, said he was ‘‘very grateful they wanted the artworks to come to us”.

        It also has been the home of country music in NZ:
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/104408533/a-country-of-a-time-at-the-new-zealand-gold-guitars-in-gore

        If Gore wants to be recognised and be something they have to work on this base and others and flaunt them. It is cargo cult mentality to rely on furrin money. It has uses here in NZ but we have to show some gumption and think of ways to have something going on all the time for tourists.

        Be intriguing. What can Gore be known for? There used to be a Y-front race somewhere which I think was held for uni students. That sounds like country boys having a bit of fun. Music. Art. Gore as a small town at the bottom of the world that can’t be ignored. Get all the unemployed men learning how to work timber with axes and teach others how to sculpt one for their home garden. Have monthly meetings for fertile locals with great ideas and have an evening over coffee and write down all the ideas, do scenarios on last month’s after having had time to consider them, then pick out two or three to carry out for each year.

        • Ad 4.1.2.1
          8 September 2018 at 11:29 am

          Comedy gold.

          In Gore they already have culture. It’s just they pronounce it “agriculture”.

          • Graeme 4.1.2.1.1
            8 September 2018 at 11:58 am

            The Gore art gallery is an absolute treasure. Not something you’d expect from a rural town. It would put most of our city public collections to shame, and that includes major centres.

            More than worth a visit next time you’re down here.

            https://www.esgallery.co.nz

            • Ad 4.1.2.1.1.1
              8 September 2018 at 12:43 pm

              I particularly like their Hotere collection.

              But it employs fewer people than on one hand.

              • Poission …
                8 September 2018 at 12:49 pm

                The cost of war in the 21st century sergeant Dan is dead.

                https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/south-otago/no-creamoata-dan-soldiers

              • Graeme …
                8 September 2018 at 12:58 pm

                You’d be surprised at what it draws into the district.

                But why does it have to be measured, and ranked by employment? Perhaps if Jaffas were more open minded and made less facetious comments about the interests and thinking of rural New Zealand there would be more interest in living, and working, in those towns.

                • Ad …
                  8 September 2018 at 5:27 pm

                  Greyrawshark proposed it as an alternative economic and cultural base to agriculture in Gore. So that’s why it needs to be measured.

                  You just need to rise with something other than emotion to the actual discussion points.

              • greywarshark …
                8 September 2018 at 7:34 pm

                But that is such a nazrrow view Ad. When economic benefit is being measured, there is the spending visitor that it brings to the town, and the fame that simple manufacturing and certainly not dairying’s notoriety would bring.

          • greywarshark 4.1.2.1.2
            8 September 2018 at 12:14 pm

            There you are that’s the heart of the problem in the Southland heartlands. Time to tilt the head above the tit and don’t rub your eyes in case you get lepsidorotis or whatsname.

            I found this Billy and Johnny skit that exemplifies narrow and repetitive thinking about transport; so transport the mind to ‘agri-culture’ and if Gore are not aggro-culture they will open up new vistas and colours.

        • Ankerrawshark 4.1.2.2
          8 September 2018 at 12:16 pm

          Visited their gallery earlier this year. It was well worth it

      • Draco T Bastard 4.1.3
        8 September 2018 at 11:53 am

        The Chinese have been great for Auckland, for its cultures, for its economies, and for us all.

        Bollocks.

        If you don’t like their investment in the milk industry, you might want to pop down and talk to the people of Gore.

        And just how are the rivers in Gore doing? Some of the most polluted in the country are they not?

        So, yeah, I’d say we could have done without the added investment in more pollution.

        • marty mars 4.1.3.1
          8 September 2018 at 12:11 pm

          Ad loves it cos his lattes froth better. The rivers can get fucked – not advantage’s problem if they can’t clean themselves – should be sold off too eh addled?

          • Ad 4.1.3.1.1
            8 September 2018 at 12:47 pm

            You need to research the New Zealand history of Mataura’s local industry and its impact on the river. Done by locals, upon locals.

            Then compare that century of near-unregulated impact to the resource consent requirements of the new Chinese-majority owned plant outside of Gore.

            You could do the same to the new Synlaid plant up in Canterbury. Historically, the local production comes out a whole lot worse.

            • Graeme 4.1.3.1.1.1
              8 September 2018 at 1:19 pm

              It’s a bit if a stretch to say the meat and wool industry in Mataura, and really New Zealand has been wholly locally owned throughout it’s existence.

              There’s been considerable overseas ownership (investment) in the industry throughout history. Usually British, but other players as well. The current flavour of Chinese ownership is only continuing this cyclic pattern.

              Like the British before them, the Chinese will most likely move on to other markets, and New Zealand will be left to clean up the mess, again.

              • Ad …
                8 September 2018 at 5:30 pm

                Yes ownership is different from industry effects.

                It was local people pouring offal and waste down that river.

                And of course it was locals that took the time to dynamite the entire waterfall at Mataura in the first place.

                We talk a big game about how great we are and how different it would be if we banned everyone else.

                We aren’t. WE are to blame for the way it is now. Not the Chinese.

                • marty mars …
                  8 September 2018 at 6:29 pm

                  No, it was YOU mr consumer. Blame all the locals trying to earn a crust in the commodified, capitalist, exploitative society people like YOU created. Own up. And people like YOU would sell this country.

                • greywarshark …
                  8 September 2018 at 9:25 pm

                  I think marty the sensible attitude would be to say that Mataura should never have brought in so many colonials who then proceeded to continually dynamite the falls to suit the wants of the moment. Save us from the commonsense man and woman, who never have doubts.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mataura
                  There are good images of Mataura falls if you look for Mataura in search sat top and click images there. They were attractive.

        • Ad 4.1.3.2
          8 September 2018 at 12:41 pm

          The Mataura River in particular was polluted from over a century of heavy industry that had absolutely nothing to do with the Chinese, and everything to do with local wool scourers and paper manufacturers and a freezing works who didn’t give a damn and pumped waste in there for over a century, regardless.

          I would love dairy industry without pollution, but that’s not the fault of the Chinese investment outside of Gore.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.1.3.2.1
            8 September 2018 at 12:53 pm

            My point is that the Chinese investment wasn’t going to improve it as they were simply going to follow the same processes that are already poisoning out streams.

            And then there’s the point that the Chinese ‘investment’ brought absolutely nothing to the country. It’s still going to be using the skills, knowledge and resources that were already here with a net loss of income for the country.

            • Ad 4.1.3.2.1.1
              8 September 2018 at 5:35 pm

              Really. You can show that from their resource consents?
              There’s a set of Regional Council monitoring data out already?
              The plant has barely been turned on and already the Chinese are to blame?
              I’m looking forward to your links on that one.

              The people who destroyed the New Zealand environment was not the Chinese. It was us.

              As to your other point, that’s just a sad set of unprovable counterfactuals. Of course you could go off on your essentialist hobbyhorse and claim that we could do all things already here.

              That dream sailed with Bill Sutch 60 years ago.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                8 September 2018 at 7:20 pm

                Really. You can show that from their resource consents?

                Well, you said that it brought improvements so can you prove that they brought any new technology and are doing things differently than from all other NZ farmers that are seriously poisoning our land?

                The people who destroyed the New Zealand environment was not the Chinese. It was us.

                Yes it was but I haven’t seen anything that the Chinese are going to do anything differently than us.

                As to your other point, that’s just a sad set of unprovable counterfactuals. Of course you could go off on your essentialist hobbyhorse and claim that we could do all things already here.

                So, you can prove that the Chinese brought a whole heap of new technology that was never here before hand?

        • Grey Area 4.1.3.3
          8 September 2018 at 7:24 pm

          +1

    • Bill 4.2
      8 September 2018 at 6:53 pm

      Well, appealing to that “Kiwi” myth of egalitarianism – in a capitalist context, if the population of China is about a quarter of the world’s total population, then shouldn’t about a quarter of everything be Chinese owned?

      • In Vino 4.2.1
        8 September 2018 at 8:55 pm

        Good point, Bill. But in that case, should not the Chinese bear a quarter of the guilt for war-crimes? The rape of Nanking comes to mind…
        Are you saying that the ideal of egalitarianism is a nonsense?

        • Bill 4.2.1.1
          8 September 2018 at 10:42 pm

          No. I’m not saying it’s a nonsense. I don’t think it’s at all feasible within the context of capitalism though. And so I’m just taking a swipe at what I perceive as hypocrisy.

          I can’t see why someone who didn’t do something should take the rap for something done by someone else. Maybe we have different ideas about what egalitarianism is?

  5. Ad 5
    8 September 2018 at 10:01 am

    The far-right Bolsonaro has a much better shot at getting the Brazilian Presidency with his stabbing. He’s following the full Trump template of completely inflammatory attacks, gaining huge media profile with each one.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/19/jair-bolsonaro-brazil-presidential-candidate-trump-parallels

    A former paratrooper with great ties to the military, it’s worth remembering that the military only allowed democracy back to Brazil in 1985.

    Bolsonaro is virulently anti gay, anti-Chinese, anti-foreign-NGO, anti-foreign investment, anti-poor, virulently opposed to the state addressing and redistributing to the less well off, and, regrettably, smarter than Trump at all of it.

    With da Silva barred from election and no clear succession plan on the left, the only thing that will stop him is the right/conservative parties splitting support.

    Across the whole of the Americas, once Brazil falls to this man, Canada looks set to become the only country with civil politics with a strong redistributive state and a stable economy. Perhaps the last one.

    • Dennis Frank 5.1
      8 September 2018 at 10:10 am

      Typical leftist violence, eh? Forgot they were meant to be doing impotent protests to support democracy? Okay, could be a sign of military intelligence: martyrdom as a vote-winning political strategy (traditional for the underdog), just have to make sure the stab is carefully placed so as to be non-lethal…

  6. Dennis Frank 6
    8 September 2018 at 10:04 am

    Dr Simon Chapple, Director of the Institute for Governance and Policy Studies in the School of Government at Victoria University: “after 30 years of slowly deepening crisis in the New Zealand public service (although this crisis was not acknowledged by the Minister), we should be pleased the State Sector Act is being reviewed.”

    “The core problem in our policy process is not that “silos” keep us from joining the necessary dots. It’s a nexus of fundamental constitutional matters in regard to defining the balance of power between the executive and the public service, particularly the top of the public service.”

    Good to see this guy going for the jugular! Chapple: “balance in the state sector has shifted too much from serving the public to serving the government.” You bet it has.
    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/@politics/2018/09/05/224256/reviving-the-spineless-state-sector

    • greywarshark 6.1
      8 September 2018 at 10:17 am

      Thanks Dennis.

    • OnceWasTim 6.2
      9 September 2018 at 7:21 am

      Just read that Newsroom article. Chapple sums up some of the problems very well.
      It is going to take more than mere tinkering. The failures in our PS are there for all to see – I have difficulty in finding a Ministry/department that hasn’t become bloody dysfunctional – full of master-of-the-Universe culture at all senior levels. and ‘trickling down – whether due to fear or brown-nosing
      We’ve seen it in Health, Housing, MoBIE, MPI, Corrections, Education, MSD, Defence ………… etc. NZTA ……
      Restructuring (and constant restructuring is painful) and there are probably other ways of achieving the goal – such as peeling off layers of the onion – (like taking away some of (say) MPI and MoBIE’s functions and placing them elsewhere. There’s no doubt though that there are those in the PS at senior levels haven’t come to terms with the fact that there’s a new government in town and it’s their responsibility to assist, rather than resist policy implementation.
      (We’ve seen the culture – things like delaying and obfuscating when it comes to OIAs, being frugal with the truth in Ministerial briefings)
      Probably also not a bad time to progress the idea of formalising?? (not sure if that’s what I mean) a constitution

      • Dennis Frank 6.2.1
        9 September 2018 at 7:45 am

        Sir Geoffrey Palmer is busy revising it. Started via his 2016 book containing a draft, in which he called for submissions. I sent in 65 points, a lot were critical but many were supportive. He had a working group as part of his process. See http://constitutionaotearoa.org.nz/about/

        • OnceWasTim 6.2.1.1
          9 September 2018 at 7:53 am

          Thanks.
          It problem now runs deep. I’ve met a number of Public Servants who (for example) couldn’t even tell me what’s in a Code of Conduct – even though they’d signed the bloody thing. Then there’s issues like the use of contractors that mean there’s stuff all continuity, let alone questions of accountability.
          I’m glad Chris Hipkins has actually recognised there’s a problem – I hope he’s up to it. I think there are others too: I L-G maybe, and certainly some in NZF aren’t impressed (not that I’m necessarily a fan of everything they stand for).

          • Dennis Frank 6.2.1.1.1
            9 September 2018 at 8:17 am

            I’m hoping for a considerable buy in to his process, both from within the PS and from the public. I’m intending to contribute design elements. It’s an opportunity to make the thing fit for purpose. Not to return to the apparatus of empire that predated the reforms 30 years ago. More like a return to the principles of public service, but with an organisational structure that incorporates suitable incentives to do what is right and appropriate constantly.

            • OnceWasTim 6.2.1.1.1.1
              9 September 2018 at 8:55 am

              ae! It’s something a few (now retired) Public Servants and I have thought a fair bit about – at least from an operational level.
              I’ve seen @Anne allude to a few issues over the years when commenting here, and I’ve had a share of my own. In a couple of cases, even members of the Judiciary have been completely astounded (one, the first time I ever her her say “faaaaaaaaaaaaaark!”).
              High time for reform!
              Have to continue this later maybe – off to chez- Wairarapa sibling, then Nelson tomorrow. Will have to get hold og Palmer and Butler’s book

  7. Anne 7
    8 September 2018 at 10:05 am

    20 minutes ago, there was an online ‘top story’ about a tweet sent by Jane Patterson of RNZ concerning the former Labour cabinet minister, Marion Hobbs. It was a nasty and uncalled for attack on Hobbs who appears to have been supporting Clare Curran behind the scenes. Clare responded with a brief tweet calling out Patterson. She then shut down her twitter account.

    10 minutes later the story has gone- lock, stock and barrel. So, who has had it removed and why?

    • greywarshark 7.1
      8 September 2018 at 10:16 am

      Interesting to see critical comments from various political commentators which reveal their attitudes and bias. Criticism is part of their job, but how widely spread is the overview, and where does the eagle land and pick out the eye of the victim!

      On TS recently we had a discussion on Radionzs bias against presenting informative news in general (we are not educational I think was the phrase),
      and why we hear mainly news from USA and UK and of course other English speaking nations. Few people are interested was the general line. So we retreat into our unknowing colonial miasma in the age of communications-plus.

      The trouble is that many media outlets are overburdened with their own hubris, which is probably a petard they will be hoist with.

      • Anne 7.1.1
        8 September 2018 at 10:31 am

        What I find concerning greywarshark is that Jane Patterson is RNZ’s political editor and not only showed bias by way of a personal attack, but it was against a former parliamentarian who retired from politics 10 years ago.

        Its ironic that Clare Curran they day after she resigns does something quite impressive in the way she called Patterson out.

        Twitter users responded backing Curran against Patterson.

        • Ankerrawshark 7.1.1.1
          8 September 2018 at 10:51 am

          Anne the herald has just publish the interchange on Twitter.

          Nasty and completely unnecessary of Jane Patterson………..a dignified response from Clare Curran.

          Jane Patterson just got really personal in a nasty childish way..

          Call for her resignation otherwise her boss is a weak leader!!. No that’s not going to happen is it and rightly so.

          The tweet was about Marion Hobbs who is apparently offering Clare support.

          And to those of you yesterday that challenged me when I said any fool could put two and two together and realize personal leave was stress leave and clares performance in the house was indicative of someone who Was highly stressed, I say I told you so.

        • OnceWasTim 7.1.1.2
          8 September 2018 at 1:50 pm

          yep well…..weird things going on at RNZ. Commercialisation without the commercials. The inform, educate and entertain triumvirate is being managed by those who never really understood the concept of public service broadcasting,
          Opinion’s fine as long as the 3 imperatives don’t end up taking a back seat. There are still a reasonable number in there hanging on
          I wonder who’ll be next to leave. Hopefully not the likes of Kim H, Peacock or Rose.
          I fear we’re just going to see tinkering around the edges as far as PSB reform goes

        • Ngungukai 7.1.1.3
          8 September 2018 at 3:04 pm

          RNZ and TVNZ are absolute rubbish and are an embarassment to NZ /

          We get feed overseas nonsense and click bait of a highly questionable quality.

          Murder, rape and political scandal of minor importance seen to be our satndard fare these days ?

          • In Vino 7.1.1.3.1
            8 September 2018 at 9:26 pm

            Dead right, OnceWasTim, except that it is Commercialisation WITH the commercials. Have you not noticed that there are ads after every hourly news session? And recently, they have also introduced those ads after any news summary on the half-hour. Occasionally they now squeeze in two short ads for their programmes instead of just one.. Sickening. National radio reduced to aping its inferiors… and the ads are slowly growing from mild and civilised to pushy and enthusiastic. Before long, I expect Kim Hill to be advertising her programme with: “ONLY.. on RNZ National !!” at the end.
            This first happened on TV when a music programme was promised with no advertising. But the channel interrupted the music anyway with advertising for its

          • In Vino 7.1.1.3.2
            8 September 2018 at 9:26 pm

            Dead right, OnceWasTim, except that it is Commercialisation WITH the commercials. Have you not noticed that there are ads after every hourly news session? And recently, they have also introduced those ads after any news summary on the half-hour. Occasionally they now squeeze in two short ads for their programmes instead of just one.. Sickening. National radio reduced to aping its inferiors… and the ads are slowly growing from mild and civilised to pushy and enthusiastic. Before long, I expect Kim Hill to be advertising her programme with: “ONLY.. on RNZ National !!” at the end.
            This first happened on TV when a music programme was promised with no advertising. But the channel interrupted the music anyway with advertising for its

            • In Vino 7.1.1.3.2.1
              8 September 2018 at 9:42 pm

              (Comment went incomplete without me sending, and got posted twice !?)
              As I was saying.. The channel interrupted the music anyway with advertising for its own programmes. When the storms of protests of music-lovers had died down, they explained that it was ‘in-house-promotion’. ! According to them, advertising is advertising only when it is paid for by outsiders.
              I call bullshit. National Radio is peddling ads (not in-house promotion) because an ad is an ad by any other name.
              The screwballs at the top are to blame, and they should be sacked.
              PLEASE GIVE US ADVERTISING-FREE RADIO !!

        • Tuppence Shrewsbury 7.1.1.4
          9 September 2018 at 10:03 am

          Why is calling boo boo the muscle at Claire’s “blame everyone but me” press conference awful?

          She was there as the muscle to keep the press st bay? Seems a fairly accurate description.

    • Ankerrawshark 7.3
      8 September 2018 at 10:35 am

      It would be good if there was a record of this.

    • veutoviper 7.4
      8 September 2018 at 12:52 pm

      Anne, lots here in my Google search “jane patterson marian hobbs”

      https://www.google.co.nz/search?rlz=1C1LDJZ_enNZ499&q=jane+patterson+marian+hobbs&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiE7cCTmKrdAhWSFIgKHVC6BjoQ7xYIJigA&biw=1024&bih=724

      Haven’t checked any of the links yet, but thought I would pass the link to you asap.

      Here is the Herald saying that Curran replied to Patterson and then deleted her Twitter account. IMO understandable as yet more pressure on someone already in a fragile state.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12121531

      • veutoviper 7.4.1
        8 September 2018 at 1:10 pm

        And the responses to Patterson’s tweet are certainly not complimentary of her and very supportive of Hobbs. !

        https://twitter.com/janepatterson/status/1037892444665204736

        A copy of Clare’s quite reasonable and mild response to Jane is there about half way down. I suspect that there will be complaints to Patterson’s employers, quite rightly so IMO.

        • OnceWasTim 7.4.1.1
          8 September 2018 at 2:05 pm

          Wow! Surely that’s worthy of the Editor-in-Chief giving her a little caution and reminding her of what RNZ is supposed to stand for. I won’t hold my breath though. Others have been banned for less.

          One of the fundamental problems is that the likes of Patterson have grown up never knowing or experiencing anything other than life under the neo-liberal ideology/religion. Worse still, when such an idea is put to them, it’s taken as a personal affront rather than a statement of fact.

          I think maybe she should stay off Twitter for a while. (It’s not about you Jane)

          • veutoviper 7.4.1.1.1
            8 September 2018 at 2:15 pm

            I am actually really disappointed in Patterson as I have had respect for her up until now. Agree with your second para but with a few exceptions who I think are a bit more open to wider views than others.

            Re RNZ, though, there seems to be a lot going on behind the scenes particularly in the News and related areas, with quite a few departures and some new arrivals over recent months.

            And only another five days of Campbell on Checkpoint left, although he has not been there for the last few days. Apparently the flu has hit hard in RNZ over the last week – first in Wellington (eg Vicky Mackay, Kathryn Ryan) and now in Auckland …

            • OnceWasTim 7.4.1.1.1.1
              8 September 2018 at 2:27 pm

              Yep, agree. We should be a little worried especially because I’m not sure this coalition (with exceptions) yet realise that both PSB reform and Public Service reform generally could very well be crucial to the success or otherwise of this government.
              And mere tinkering around the edges is not going to cut it.

              And when I say PS reform, I don’t just mean with central government.
              We see total muppetry in DHBs, Regional and local Councils.
              (E.g., I’m not sure how GWRC EVER came to the conclusion its big-bang public transport system was going to work)

              If the Peter Principle was only ever its author’s need for an earn, sure as shit it’s playing out now and it’s reached the most senior levels in our public institutions

              • veutoviper …
                8 September 2018 at 2:50 pm

                I agree with everything in your comment.

                I have not commented on the two recent posts here on the ps and parliament as I find their style over-exaggerated and fabricated creative writing meant to provoke rather than to discuss things based on fact and objectivity. Yes, some truth there but lost in the over-egging … That and the lemmings who responded in like did my head and blood pressure in. Drove me to drink it did!

                My ps experience covers not only 40 odd years of my own career, but also my whole childhood/teens as a NZ ps and dip brat – and my 40+ years also included 7 years in the UK ps. I actually walked two years short of 65 for both health reasons and because I was no longer prepared to work under the politicization I was witnessing and enduring from the most senior levels down.

                Must get back to finishing the written submission I am coordinating for my locals re the buses tomorrow! PS skills are still useful in retirement. LOL

            • OnceWasTim 7.4.1.1.1.2
              8 September 2018 at 2:38 pm

              Oh, btw, I also had respect for Patterson. Right now though, I think she should be promoted to doing the morning bird call: “Rark! Rark Rark”, the Blue spotted Jane, alongside the tuneful Blue-beaked Nona

              • veutoviper …
                8 September 2018 at 2:52 pm

                ROFL.. And then i want to hear Giles’ opinion of both!

              • OnceWasTim …
                8 September 2018 at 2:58 pm

                Christ!!!! I’m even considering joining the twitterati.
                Maybe not though. There are still places in the Whurl where a little civility, compassion and respect for the social over the economic are still at play.
                Best of luck to the survivors of the the dollar worship.
                (Even Los Americanos importing bolt-hole submersables furnished by imported jet transport – I’ve yet to figure out in this connected Whurl how most propose a landing. Is there a TAB bet available on their success or failure?)

                • veutoviper …
                  8 September 2018 at 3:05 pm

                  I don’t belong to Twitter but read extensively there. Obviously cannot reply but cannot be blocked either! And I would get myself into big trouble if I could reply! Must rush but if you want to know how to read without joining, happy to oblige.

  8. Patricia Bremner 8
    8 September 2018 at 10:17 am

    Bea Yates a wonderful woman has died. Bea was well known for her mahi in Rotorua,
    Gone too soon and will be missed by all she knew and all she helped. Rotorua has lost an icon.

  9. Dennis Frank 9
    8 September 2018 at 10:21 am

    “Green Party calls for plaque in Parliament for New Zealand wars ” “Parliament’s debating chamber currently features 33 memorial plaques and wreaths on its walls commemorating famous battles or wars New Zealanders have died in, including Gallipoli, Passchendaele, and Afghanistan. None commemorate the New Zealand Wars” https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/106889621/green-party-calls-for-plaque-in-parliament-for-new-zealand-wars?rm=a

    “Gareth Hughes wrote to the Speaker on Tuesday requesting the plaque.” He’s also lobbying the other parties to secure consensus. “Editorial: Fix the gap in our history by honouring Land Wars dead ” [Stuff politics] https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/106917622/editorial-fix-the-gap-in-our-history-by-honouring-land-wars-dead

  10. Dennis Frank 10
    8 September 2018 at 10:28 am

    Rocket science: getting high no good for productivity. “I’m not a regular smoker of weed,” Musk said. “I don’t actually notice any effect … I don’t find that it is very good for productivity.” https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/sep/07/tesla-chief-elon-musk-smokes-marijuana-on-live-web-show

    • Dennis Frank 11.1
      8 September 2018 at 11:11 am

      Just reminds us that US foreign policy after devolution of the USSR was to help Russia become a model capitalist state. Clinton led this initiative as president, Trump followed. Helping Russian mobsters get a foothold in NY mafia territory is something in the grey area between feasible & likely if the scenario is collaboration with local mobsters (rather than competition). An insider may spill the beans eventually.

  12. Dennis Frank 12
    8 September 2018 at 1:06 pm

    1080 protest today driven by fake news: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rural/2018/09/fake-news-and-false-facts-driving-opposition-to-1080-forest-bird.html

    Forest & Bird’s Kevin Hackwell says “Those photographs of those kiwis killed by dogs, but here they are saying it was 1080.”

    “Is the Department of Conservation’s (DoC) real motivation for using 1080 poison the extermination of the human race? It’s just one of many fringe theories being promoted by activists” https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rural/2018/08/1080-activism-going-down-the-conspiracy-wormhole.html

  13. Ed 13
    8 September 2018 at 1:39 pm

    Neoliberal New Zealand.
    A paradise for the few.
    A hellhole for the many.

    #1. Graeme Hart

    “This week the NZ Herald reported that the super yacht owned by New Zealand’s richest man is currently taking its maiden voyage in the Mediterranean. Its estimated that Graeme Hart , who is personally worth over $14 billion, spent $381 million on the five-deck Super Yacht. A mini-hotel that floats, it can accommodate up to 66 people and comes complete with its own heli hangar and helicopter, on-deck pool and jacuzzi, wine cellar, gym, bar and sauna (naturally). In 2017 Graeme Hart grew twenty percent richer.”

    http://nzagainstthecurrent.blogspot.com/2018/09/lifestyles-of-rich-and-poor.html

    • Alan 13.1
      8 September 2018 at 3:37 pm

      get over it Ed, some people are good at making money.

        • Alan 13.1.1.1
          8 September 2018 at 3:43 pm

          of course there are good people and bad people on both sides of the spectrum, problem for you is that the shining lights from your side of the spectrum, Stalin, Pol Pot etc. have killed millions and ruined untold more lives with their fuck wit ideas.

          • Ed 13.1.1.1.1
            8 September 2018 at 3:45 pm

            Alan defends this.
            He swears at people who point out the obscene inequality presently occurring in NZ under neoliberal capitalism.
            Alan appears quite ill informed.

            https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2018/jan/22/inequality-gap-widens-as-42-people-hold-same-wealth-as-37bn-poorest

          • adam 13.1.1.1.2
            8 September 2018 at 9:22 pm

            I love idiots like you alan, how about the right wing despots like Hitler, Mussolini, Pinochet who have killed millions – they represent you buddy? How about the millions dying in unjustified wars started by right wing nut jobs? How about the people dying and suffering because right wing governments use sanctions, knowing full well all that sanctions do is bolister authoritarian governments?

            So yeah Alan, any tard can come on this site, and many have before you – to run with the stupid bloody lines, without looking to the nut bars on their side.

        • Alan 13.1.2.1
          8 September 2018 at 4:06 pm

          Ed, you are quite welcome to go back in time and deal with the shit lives that 99% of the population had to endure, the rest of us will do our best to enjoy the undoubted fruits that capitalism has provided since then. Of course it is not perfect but for the vast majority it is way better than anything the extreme left has come up with.
          Go on, give me just one good example of a positive long term effect generated by any extreme left regime.
          No?
          thought not

          • Ed 13.1.2.1.1
            8 September 2018 at 4:18 pm

            I want to ask you some questions Alan.

            What is moderate about being in support of the Iraq war?
            What is moderate about being in support of the Afghan war?
            What is moderate about being in support of the Libyan war?
            What is moderate about being in support of the Syrian war?

            Why is it moderate to love war?
            Why is it moderate to allow the richest people in land to pay historically low levels of taxation?

            That sounds pretty extreme to me.

            I recommend the moderate policies, as put forward by Corbyn and Sanders.

          • Ed 13.1.2.1.2
            8 September 2018 at 5:45 pm

            Bryan Bruce’s thoughts are similar to mine.

            “I became a radical by simply standing still” Every so often I read a sentence I really,really wish I had thought of first.

            Like this one, spoken recently by the English playwright Alan Bennett: “I became a radical simply by standing still”.

            There was a lot wrong with the New Zealand I grew up in, women had less rights (they still don’t have equal pay) there was so much bureaucracy and red tape it stifled entrepreneurialism, and yes it took 6 to 8 weeks to get a phone connected by the Post Office and yes there were just 3 choices of colours- black red and green.

            But we were egalitarian. We believed that we should call no man “Sir” and “Jack was as good as his master” We believed that every child had a right to an education as far as their talents and abilities would allow and that the State ( that’s you and me and everyone else in New Zealand) should pay for it- as a gift that would keep on giving as we benefitted as a society from what our kids had learned.”

            Read it all here……..

            https://m.facebook.com/www.redsky.tv/

    • One Two 13.2
      8 September 2018 at 5:56 pm

      accomodates up to 66 people…

      Again, today the various stories are littered with doubles

      66
      33
      11

      Every single day…

  14. Ed 14
    8 September 2018 at 1:41 pm

    Neoliberal New Zealand.
    A paradise for the few.
    A hellhole for the many.

    #2. Louise.

    “Louise, who works as a teachers aide and has two young children, lives in house shared with extended whanau. After all her immediate costs are met Louise is left with less than $60 a week to feed herself and her children.

    “I spend between $45 and $55 a week on food,” she told the NZ Herald.’ The rest of my wages goes on car payments, petrol and paying board for me and the children…Like all mums on a tight budget I lose sleep. I lose my appetite. I have to watch out for depression. It can be pretty tough.’”

    http://nzagainstthecurrent.blogspot.com/2018/09/lifestyles-of-rich-and-poor.html

  15. marty mars 15
    8 September 2018 at 3:27 pm

    t.rump = a.hole

    “Despite his protestations to the contrary, Mr Trump actually had been told Woodward wanted to speak to him.

    Trump: “Who were the senators? No, they never called me about it.”
    Woodward: Senator Graham said he had talked to you about talking to me. Now, is that not true?”
    Trump: ” … Senator Graham actually mentioned it quickly in one meeting.”
    Woodward: “Yes, well, see. And then nothing happened.”

    When Woodward confronted the President with direct evidence of his dishonesty, his excuses became nonsensical.

    “I’m just hearing about it. And I heard — I did hear from Lindsey, but I’m just hearing about it.”

    Caught in the lie, he quickly changed tack — and redirected the focus of the conversation, and the blame, to his staff.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12121590

  16. Ed 16
    8 September 2018 at 3:34 pm

    Neil Clark is a journalist, writer, broadcaster and blogger. He has written for many newspapers and magazines in the UK and other countries including The Guardian, Morning Star, Daily and Sunday Express, Mail on Sunday, Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph,

    This is stuff you won’t read in the corporate media.

    “the Western assault on Libya was an even worse crime than the invasion of Iraq because it came later. There was really no excuse for anyone, seeing how the ‘regime change’ operation of 2003 had turned out, supporting a similar venture in North Africa.

    Yet, those responsible for what happened have faced no comeback. The UK Prime Minister at the time, David Cameron, is blamed for Brexit (by Remainers), but not for what he did to Libya and the claims he made to justify the military action. This is despite a House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee report concluding, five years later, that “the proposition that Muammar Gaddafi would have ordered the massacre of civilians in Benghazi was not supported by the available evidence.”

    Nicolas Sarkozy, the French President in 2011, faces a trial (or trials) in relation to three different investigations, including accepting money from Gaddafi to help his election campaign, but he has not yet been prosecuted for his role in the war.

    Bernard-Henri Levy, the philosopher considered by some to be the intellectual godfather of the Western intervention – and who boasted “we are the first to say that Qaddafi is no longer the legal representative,” is performing a one-man anti-Brexit play, as the country he helped ‘liberate’ burns.

    Stateside and in ‘liberal’ circles across the West, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are lionised for not being Donald Trump, but what the duo did to Libya is far worse than anything Trump has done up to now.

    The sad truth is that Libya is broken and probably will never be put back together again. A great crime has been committed, but you would never think it, judging by the lack of media coverage.

    Try googling the names of some of the leading media war hawks and ‘Libya’ and you see they tend to go as silent after 2011 – shifting their attention to propagandising for ‘regime change’ in Syria. The only conclusion one can draw is their sole interest in the country was seeing Muammar Gaddafi toppled. After that was achieved, who cares?”

  17. greywarshark 17
    8 September 2018 at 3:35 pm

    The ageing population of NZ. While I had the sad task of looking at death notices in Stuff Recent Obituaries for 8 September I noticed many of them were very aged. Long age is having effects on us.

    I did a rough count and for those who stated dates, the number over 85 (up to 102 years) was 30 and those under 85 – 32 deaths.

  18. Ffloyd 18
    8 September 2018 at 5:05 pm

    Last NZ Womens Weekly with Simon B and baby on front cover. Suppose it was his and not some random baby. SO funny. Take that Jacinda! Were the taxpayers paying for him to pose for magazine. Was he doing it in ourtime? Did he have travel for magazine interview? How much did he have to pay for trip if so? So many questions. The country needs to know the truth.

  19. Macro 19
    8 September 2018 at 5:53 pm

    Snoopy verses The Orange barron
    The End.

    He may not have a lodestar –
    But he definitely paid a porn star.

  20. Ed 20
    8 September 2018 at 7:07 pm

    Tony Blair.
    Nice company he keeps.

    “Let us look at who Tony Blair regards as palatable and who he does not. This week, Blair had what was described as a “friendly” meeting with Matteo Salvini, Italy’s far-right interior minister who has demanded the expulsion of thousands of Roma. He was there lobbying for a pipeline on behalf of Azerbaijan’s human rights-abusing autocracy. It was also revealed that Blair’s institute has received millions of pounds from Saudi Arabia, a regime where homosexuality is punishable by death, which exports international extremism, and which slaughters children in Yemen. Another client has been Nursultan Nazarbayev, the dictator of Kazakhstan, who has paid Blair millions for services rendered – including advice from our former prime minister on fixing his reputation after his regime was responsible for the massacre of 15 striking oil workers.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/07/new-political-party-tony-blair-discredited-dictators-labour-party

  21. Eco Maori 21
    9 September 2018 at 7:36 am

    Many thanks for Dr Machio Kaku coming to Aotearoa.
    His visit will enspire heaps of Mokopunas to study the Science and science is good for all society’s link below Ka kite ano.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/106835759/visiting-world-renowned-scientist-space-travel-isnt-just-for-world-superpowers

  22. Eco Maori 22
    9 September 2018 at 9:43 am

    The Hui it’s awesome that Te REO Maori is getting it Mana back.
    Maori language week is a good thing it highlights OUR tangata whenua language which was suppressed for 50 years all part of suppression of another indigenous culture.
    Compulsory Maori language is a good goal for all Kiwis to aspire to it will take a few years but that doesn’t mean we should shelve the idea or movement for this to happen.
    There will be a lot of positive phenomenons from this asperaction.
    Its the supply and demand equation.
    I.E OUR fluent Maori speakers will get paid more for there Mahi and in my eyes that’s a good thing especially when I cast my eyes around Atoearoa and see all the poverty that’s gripping Aotearoa Tangata Whenua at the minute.
    Ka kite ano. P.S Kia kaha Tangata whenua

  23. Eco Maori 23
    9 September 2018 at 10:22 am

    Newshub Nation the Green Party have achieved a lot while be part of the law makers like Marama has said there has been a big shift towards humane environmental responsibility policy that’s the Green Party influenced .
    This would not have happened if they didn’t become part of this Government.
    Terroist is the new word to stir up the people emotions so that some people can wage war for others purposes. IE lining there pockets with money.
    Ka kite ano

  24. Eco Maori 24
    9 September 2018 at 5:29 pm

    I can see how far the old white boys network reaches around Papatuanukue to interfair with anyone ECO MAORI makes a statement about or any topic I have a input in.
    These are the old men who see there power and control slipping out of there grasp.
    They are racist bigots who will not stop ECO MAORI from changing things muppets.
    I will counter there silly game they are fools who are responsible for setting Humanity back hundreds of years under their ideal that white man is superior to all other People and culture enough said. Ka kite ano. Ana to kai

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