Open mike 13/11/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 13th, 2024 - 58 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

58 comments on “Open mike 13/11/2024 ”

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  1. Dennis Frank 1
    13 November 2024 at 6:21 am

    Leading conspiracist bankrupt Alex Jones, reportedly worth $270 million, has yet to be appointed Minister of Propaganda by Trump, so watch this space.

    An auction for Infowars’ intellectual property is scheduled for Wednesday, November 13. Judge Christopher Lopez approved auctions for Infowars and its assets in a ruling in September, despite objections from Jones’ attorneys, according to court filings. The auctions will include Infowars’ website, social media accounts, broadcasting equipment and trademarks owned by Free Speech Systems and other property belonging to the company, including an armored truck and video cameras, Lopez said in a court filing earlier this year. The court selected “qualified” buyers to a live, in-person auction on Wednesday after bidders submitted offers before a deadline ended last week. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2024/11/12/alex-jones-infowars-will-be-auctioned-this-week-to-help-pay-sandy-hook-families-15-billion-heres-what-to-know/

    It would make sense for Musk to be top bidder. He could then relaunch the Infowars brand because the concept remains timely.

  2. Koina 2
    13 November 2024 at 7:55 am

    I am the first to call it.

    Lefties are back.

    Having Trump to blame for the worlds problems is super dooper.

    The next five years we can blame National/NZF/Act for all the problems here.

    We are back in our lefty comfort zone.

    The evil rich White right wing is the "cause" of everyones problems

    Only the diverse left can save the country.

    2025 will see the relaunch of leftyism.

    Again we can all wear our "LOVE" lefty cap with pride.

    LOVE.

    Let Our Vision Excite.

    I can feel the vibe already. heart smiley

    Tino pai rawa atu.

    Koina

    • higherstandard 2.1
      13 November 2024 at 8:11 am

      Sarcasm?

    • Patricia Bremner 2.2
      13 November 2024 at 8:22 am

      Slowly but surely, we are exposing the harm, the motives and attitudes of these three CoC parties and their monied backroom friends. Their objectives are not people and community based, so we are working together to remove them and build a people centered Government, not one the uses people like pawns on a chess board, and places money ahead of everything. heart

  3. dv 3
    13 November 2024 at 8:14 am

    Re compo for state abuse.

    I read recently (can't find it now) firm was fined 300$K for a death they were found responsible for.

    Could be a starting point!!!!

  4. Bearded Git 4
    13 November 2024 at 8:15 am

    Great Tiriti turnout in Dunedin yesterday-the video worth a look.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/over-1000-attend-octagon-rally-toit%C5%AB-te-tiriti

  5. Nic the NZer 5
    13 November 2024 at 10:13 am

    Does anyone have an idea why the tweets at the end of this post were deleted?

    Monday: Hili dialogue – Why Evolution Is True

      • Nic the NZer 5.1.1
        13 November 2024 at 12:43 pm

        While I had found that video easily enough the question was why twitter would have taken down an IDF post describing it, and the other about the Maccabi Tel Aviv riots in Amsterdam.

        • SPC 5.1.1.1
          13 November 2024 at 12:52 pm

          I was not aware of the other deletion. If that "two" were taken down, my guess would be, X was posing as being even handed.

          • Nic the NZer 5.1.1.1.1
            13 November 2024 at 1:51 pm

            But is there a way to find a reason given by twitter for how these posts violated whatever standards? Even if twitter is somehow being even handed why can't the IDF post that link anyway? The video is still up as you linked to it and its hardly controversial that Hamas has tortured Gazan's before.

            • SPC 5.1.1.1.1.1
              13 November 2024 at 1:59 pm

              Not with a link on X apparently.

              I am sure Musk allows a semblance of process, good luck.

  6. tWig 6
    13 November 2024 at 10:25 am

    Heard on RNZ late news last night that an Israeli government minister had come out and said that Israel would now put into plans for annexation of Gaza? Or at least part of it. I think. Guess they were just in a holding pattern until Trump's election. A very cynical person would say it was never about the hostages.

    I must say that I have yet to see this piece of news in the international press, and it’s not available on the RNZ website. Why it would pop up and then pop away suggests either a fleeting bit of misinformation, or a disclaimer by Israel, whether truth or not.

    Proof of the pudding is in the eating. But the push to rid the north of Gaza of Palestinians suggests the statement reflects the longterm aims of the Israeli government when it started its campaign against Palestinian civilians.

  7. Dennis Frank 7
    13 November 2024 at 10:27 am

    Christian indoctrination has required physical discipline for plenty of centuries but at times the torture was milder in different places:

    Beatings of 100 strokes for masturbation, 400 for pride, and one of 800 strokes for some undisclosed “fall” are recorded.’

    I chose to open with this quote so nobody can be under any doubt why Justin Welby has resigned as Archbishop of Canterbury. The quote is from 1982. That’s how long this has been going on. Back then senior figures within the evangelical movement, which ran Varsity and Public Schools holiday camps, held an inquiry into whether one of their leaders, John Smyth, was systematically abusing boys and young men in their trust.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-justin-welby-had-to-resign/

    Church leaders absorb a sense of normalcy from tradition like anyone else. The cultic mass psychology they are immersed in is never apparent to them. Even apparently good people succumb to normalcy. What interests me is why the usual robotic apology incantation used here by the left & right in govt was viewed as insufficient.

    • tWig 7.1
      13 November 2024 at 11:29 am

      Because Welby failed to follow up in 2013. “The Makin review has exposed the long-maintained conspiracy of silence about the heinous abuses of John Smyth. When I was informed in 2013 and told that police had been notified, I believed wrongly that an appropriate resolution would follow."

      Welby had attended Smyth's evangelical camps in the 70s and 80s, and so was also linked to him personally.

  8. Dennis Frank 8
    13 November 2024 at 10:35 am

    Greens get it right: https://thespinoff.co.nz/the-bulletin/12-11-2024/a-national-apology-and-whats-left-unsaid

    Greens’ spokesperson for children, Kahurangi Carter, who said in a statement that “an apology without accountability – or worse, actively perpetuating the same harms – is nothing more than empty air.”

    The speaker changed his mind after sufficient negative feedback, but required the stroppy journo to have a nursemaid:

    Smale had “unapologetically exposed the extent to which current and past state officials and governments have tried to bury information and adopted tactics to ensure that survivors would not receive justice”. Thankfully, common sense prevailed, and his access was restored by mid-afternoon – though RNZ reported that it came with the inexplicable and paternalistic proviso that he be accompanied by a Newsroom reporter at all times.

    Pointing out that Labour & National have been operating in collusion with evil-doers in the public service was felt to be uncool. Speak truth to power?? What temerity!

  9. tWig 9
    13 November 2024 at 11:08 am

    It's not collusion with evil-doers: the Ministers involved at the time must have either directly initiated the action to hamper cases before the courts; or have tacitly approved of officials' options regarding dirty tactics. Which makes the government of the time the evil-doers.

    And which also explains Hipkins's defence of the Attorney-General over this issue. Policy is the driver of such decisions lower down, and policy is set, and is nominally overseen by the Minister.

    • Dennis Frank 9.1
      13 November 2024 at 11:11 am

      So you're validating my point. Thanks. I get that collusion can be tacit rather than explicit – it normally is – so any of the activities you describe may involve the establishment offenders wriggling off the moral hook in their own minds.

      • tWig 9.1.1
        13 November 2024 at 11:39 am

        I think it would be quite clear to any Minister with knowledge of the law what was going on. At the very least, the AG must regularly inform Ministers of critical public cases as part of their job.

        I posted on this topic from the survivors' viewpoint a few days ago, where they are very keen to see her go. It gave me pause when I saw Hipkins's defense of her, which suggests more info than we have access to.

        If the dirty tactics were going on while at the same time the Labour-initiated Commission was convening, then that's troubling. The Commission did list the below-par legal tactics of the Crown Law Office in their review.

        Chewie on BHN on this topic last night made the comment that as soon as they knew the Commission was established, the rats, the real evil-doer officials, were busy shredding documents and making plans to hive off overseas.

        Hipkins is making an important point of Ministerial responsibility: the buck stops there. The Public Service cannot be made scapegoats if they have been essentially forced to follow Ministerial decisions. Of course, the question becomes “how forced?”

        • Dennis Frank 9.1.1.1
          13 November 2024 at 12:09 pm

          Indeed. Well-framed, & I share your overview. yes

        • gsays 9.1.1.2
          13 November 2024 at 12:12 pm

          It's horrifically sounding like a 21st century, Aotearoa Nuremberg Defence.

          Reading Aaron Smale's excellent work on this last night, I was getting madder and sadder.

          Successive governments, from both sides of the aisle, decided to lie, obfuscate and retraumatise victims just because of money.

          • Incognito 9.1.1.2.1
            13 November 2024 at 9:45 pm

            Snap!

            Smale’s article in Newsroom today (https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/11/13/aaron-smale-an-apology-both-sincere-and-hollow/) reminded me strongly of Hannah Arendt’s banality of evil.

            • gsays 9.1.1.2.1.1
              14 November 2024 at 6:49 am

              In the comments of one of Smale's articles, someone suggested a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Public Service.

              Because of the lens through which I view politics, that appealed to me.

              Surely these people have mandate to serve the public's best interests. There must also be mechanisms when that is at odds with their political masters.

              In my opinion, Jagose has failed any test of this. With that failing, Collins comes under scrutiny as well as previous Solicitor/Attorneys General.

              And folk wonder where enthusiasm for Parliament occupation, Hikoi, Sov Cit. movement come from…

              • Incognito …
                14 November 2024 at 9:09 am

                I’d be extremely hesitant about a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Public Service as a whole.

                • gsays …
                  14 November 2024 at 1:58 pm

                  By extreme goals you get moderate gains.

                  • Incognito …
                    14 November 2024 at 2:08 pm

                    A Royal Commission is a nuclear option that must be used with utmost care and precision, or it will have devastating and long-lasting effects on Public Service. Coincidentally, some wouldn’t mind a scorched Earth outcome of PS.

                    What’s next, a RCoI into the Judiciary?

                    • gsays …
                      15 November 2024 at 7:48 am

                      I'm not the only one that bemoans how Neo-liberalism fails the citizenry.

                      This latest shameful episode demonstrates the PTB view the balance sheet is more important than people's lives.

                      This has occured through several governments and with essentially the same mandarins doing the 'dirty work'.

                      Hipkins, understandably, has shown there is a lack of an appetite for people to be held accountable. No wonder, the public servants would know about these and plenty of other skeletons in the closet.

                      Once again I can see how Trump’s “drain the swamp” rhetoric gained so much traction.

    • SPC 9.2
      13 November 2024 at 1:01 pm

      The hidden issue is on-going abuse 1999-2018.

      If they were hampering pre 1999 investigations in the 1980's and then 1990's (as the current SG is aware in her early career), this was SOP at state level (as well as in churches – the reason being reputation).

      And one could conclude they would not be investigating and prosecuting perps still in these institutions in the 2000's – maybe removing them on the quiet, or if not – culpable for crimes that then continued.

      Labour began the reform of MH care (post 2017) for a reason.

    • Ad 9.3
      13 November 2024 at 1:51 pm

      By start of 20th century Maori were down to just over 40,000 people left.

      For their descendants the entire Treaty settlement process started several decades and about $3b later.

      Imagine if proper settlement was made to New Zealand’s 200,000+ institutional abuse survivors and their descendants.

      It would in some ways be far bigger than our Waitangi claims.

      That's a scale of damage worth thinking about.

      • SPC 9.3.1
        13 November 2024 at 2:31 pm

        I'm not accepting the relativity.

        The iwi settlements were related to article 2 as per lost land (not the number of people then, or since) and did not include claim to land lost to private ownership.

        Also, there are around a million Maori now and settlement process is not yet completed.

        • Ad 9.3.1.1
          13 November 2024 at 4:07 pm

          There will be millions damaged in the generations to come.

          The relativity is important to the $$, which is where this is about to go.

          There's MoJ/Corrections 'miscarriage of justice' frameworks $$

          There's Pike River $$. There's Leaky Homes $$. hristchurch property buyout $$$ There's ACC misadvnture $$. There's post-Gabrielle $$$. There's COVID $$$$$$$ per employee.

          There's been a start at a framework for $$ already, but clearly the government are playing for time to Budget 2025.

          The state won't be starting for scratch, and still no sign they won't stop resisting any sense of liability through the High Court.

          The money is where this is going, and ignoring the relativities to Treaty claims may not feel nice but they're going to be made and made quickly.

      • SPC 9.3.2
        13 November 2024 at 2:46 pm

        The damage to Maori lives thing is on point (from loss of land. place and mana and consequence), but here only involves care institutions.

        The disproportionate instances of harm (abuse) to Maori also includes policing practice (in the 20th C more so) and prison incarceration experience of Maori (lack of staff and the long periods in cells).

    • tWig 9.4
      13 November 2024 at 5:51 pm

      Smale's reporting of the apology is worth a read.

      • tWig 9.4.1
        14 November 2024 at 11:35 am

        Jim Hubbard's cartoon in Stuff today (14th) says it all in a picture: can't find a link online (perhaps behind a paywall).

        Titled, The political and state sector managerial menagerie lineup, and showing a crocodile shedding tears, an ostrich with its head in the sand and a brain-washed sheep.

  10. Dennis Frank 10
    13 November 2024 at 11:24 am

    Ron Paul must be bouncing up & down with excitement:

    Elon Musk, the CEO of SpaceX and Tesla, has supported President-elect Donald Trump’s attempt to include the president in the formulation of Federal Reserve policy. https://www.fxleaders.com/news/2024/11/11/elon-musk-backs-trumps-call-to-end-the-fed-in-latest-economic-debate/

    Musk, a key Trump backer who is expected to have considerable sway in helping shape Trump’s policies, included a “100” emoji while resharing Republican Sen. Mike Lee of Utah’s post on X calling for ending the Fed. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/12/business/elon-musk-federal-reserve/index.html

    End the Fed is a 2009 book by Congressman Ron Paul of Texas. The book debuted at # 6 on the New York Times Best Seller list and advocates the abolition of the United States Federal Reserve System "because it is immoral, unconstitutional, impractical, promotes bad economics, and undermines liberty." [Wikipedia]

    Seems significant due to a looming warp away from neolib orthodoxy, toward libertarian ethos. If it happens, we'll see the right challenging Seymour's timidity as zealot.

    • SPC 10.1
      13 November 2024 at 1:06 pm

      I suspect Ron Paul might regard POTUS involvement in setting Fed policy as making it worse.

      • Dennis Frank 10.1.1
        13 November 2024 at 1:30 pm

        Yep, at least re Trump. Depends on advisor(s) too. Does raise the possibility of a principled non-establishment policy though, which is good for evolutionary change.

  11. Dennis Frank 11
    13 November 2024 at 1:42 pm

    Young feller nominated as T's defence minister: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-host-pete-hegseth-serve-defense-secretary-under-trump

    received his Bachelor of Arts at Princeton University in 2003. In 2013, he received a Master of Public Policy from the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University

    Hegseth formed the political action committee MN PAC in 2012. An APM Reports analysis found that while Hegseth ran the MN PAC political action committee, one third of its $15,000 in funds were spent on Christmas parties for families and friends. Campaign finance laws in Minnesota do not prohibit such spending. Less than half of the PAC's resources was spent on candidates, and as of March 2018, the PAC had closed its account with the state board. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Hegseth

    So he knows how to have a good time, & he's clever enough to get political supporters to fund his partying. Hedonic trumpism masterclass dude.

  12. observer 12
    13 November 2024 at 3:11 pm

    Amazing. Luxon has just answered a question in the House by disowning Chris Finlayson. By extension, that means disowning Finlayson's Treaty settlements when National were last in government.

    (As usual, Hipkins was too slow to pick up on it, and make it a headline. Always on auto pilot, which is why Luxon gets away with his howlers. Labour MPs know how to shout, which achieves nothing, but don't know how to listen and pounce).

    • alwyn 12.1
      13 November 2024 at 6:07 pm

      I presume you mean when Luxon said "Well, I don't take responsibility for Chris Finlayson.".

      Why on earth should he be held responsible for recent remarks by a former National MP who left Parliament before Luxon even became an MP? And how on earth can you turn this into him rejecting everything that Finlayson might have done when he was younger and perhaps more sensible. ie when he was in fact in the House.

      • observer 12.1.1
        13 November 2024 at 6:29 pm

        But that's exactly the point. Luxon didn't have to say those things that you suggest (which would have embarrassed National and made a headline "PM rift with Key government").

        He didn't, because nobody asked.

        Luxon's answer opened him up to further questioning (as per House rules). Hipkins only needed to follow it up, and make Luxon squirm when he then responded "Look, what I would say to that member is that I totally support Treaty settlements and bluster bluster what I'm saying to you is I totally reject the Treaty principles bill and bluster bluster what I would say to you is Chris Finalyson is wrong and bluster bluster look, I don't support the bill that my government is introducing.

        (etc).

        We'll never know, because Labour gave Luxon the free pass, as usual.

        • Incognito 12.1.1.1
          13 November 2024 at 7:05 pm

          He didn’t, because nobody asked.

          Incorrect. Hipkins asked that exact question of the PM.

          • observer 12.1.1.1.1
            13 November 2024 at 7:25 pm

            Incorrect.

            Transcript here:

            Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers – New Zealand Parliament

            As I stated above, Hipkins had no follow-up to Luxon's open goal answer (and yes, in real time I was asking the Q myself, as anyone awake would). As the transcript makes clear, Hipkins didn't pick it up, he simply moved on to his next pre-scripted Q.

            This is not an isolated example, which is why it's so frustrating. Luxon is a gift (worst PM at Q time in modern history). But Labour rarely take the freebies.

            • Incognito 12.1.1.1.1.1
              13 November 2024 at 9:03 pm

              Sorry, but I seem to have misunderstood you. Are we talking about the following? If so, were you implying that Luxon could and should have given quite a different answer?

              Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: What responsibility does he take as Prime Minister for the fact that, as former National Minister Christopher Finlayson has said, "there is too much division and hurt in New Zealand caused by, among other things, pernicious nonsense like the Treaty Principles Bill."?

              Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I don't take responsibility for Chris Finlayson.

              • SPC …
                13 November 2024 at 9:45 pm

                He still gets to own that he made a deal with ACT that has/will lead to

                too much division and hurt in New Zealand

                caused by, among other things, pernicious nonsense like the Treaty Principles Bill

  13. Stephen D 13
    13 November 2024 at 4:12 pm

    A lot of this is relevant here.

    https://open.substack.com/pub/robertreich/p/the-root-of-trumpism?r=aax0&utm_medium=ios

    ”Large corporations, CEOs, and billionaires have embraced global trade without giving blue-collar workers any means of coping with it.
    They have turned Wall Street into a gambling casino without insuring the rest of America against the risk that those bets would turn bad.
    They have allowed giant corporations to monopolize without giving workers the countervailing power to unionize.”

    • Georgecom 13.1
      13 November 2024 at 6:45 pm

      Both trump and sanders promised to "drain the swamp". The guy who won is the swamp and the scum and the bottom of the swamp at that. The 1%er wont do any draining, he will just talk about it and do what increases his 1%ism. Sanders was that chance

  14. tWig 14
    13 November 2024 at 5:31 pm

    Just to show colonisation is not just a function of skin colour: Norway's government apologise to Sami for forced assimilation.