Open mike 20/10/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:43 am, October 20th, 2014 - 59 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

The Standard is not a conspiracy – just a welcome outlet for the expression of views. Leaders that command respect will not be undermined by this.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

59 comments on “Open mike 20/10/2014 ”

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  1. amiriterawshark 1
    20 October 2014 at 7:13 am

    And this is what’s wrong with Labour: Mike Williams is basically saying that a leader or deputy leader who is a woman/Maori/Pasifika/any other minority representative is never chosen on merit as opposed to, for instance, entitled, white middle-aged men.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/ardern-as-deputy-risky-move–mike-williams-2014102006

    • Murray Rawshark 1.1
      20 October 2014 at 7:22 pm

      I have never noticed her merit, to tell the truth. I mostly saw her in parliament getting instructions from Mallard about how to ask ineffective questions. In the TV3 clip, she doesn’t even seem to like Robertson. The peck on the cheek she gives him is very perfunctory and she only flashes her smile when she’s looking at other people, not him. I’d guess this is not a partnership made in heaven.

      I also wonder what draws the young people in the clip to support Labour. I suppose it’s innate conservatism, because anyone of that age wanting change should be involved with Greens or Mana.

  2. Clean_power 2
    20 October 2014 at 7:16 am

    Will the ticket Robertson-Ardern attract enough supporters? Given the profile of the running mate the answer could be yes. She is well spoken.

    • Paul 2.1
      20 October 2014 at 7:38 am

      Your comments don’t suggest you are Labour.
      So why are you so keen on the outcome of Labour votes?
      And why are you so supportive of Robertson.

      • boldsirbrian 2.1.1
        20 October 2014 at 8:24 am

        @ Paul (2.1)

        Your comment I find a little arrogant. Why should a Labour supporter not share the views of Clean-power? Why are you so supportive of any other particular candidate?

        I saw the announcement of the combined ticket, and immediately thought that it strengthened Grant Robertson’s bid. My vote is (at this stage) still with Nanaia Mahuta, but it’s almost a tie with the Robertson/Ardern ticket. What they all have to say in the coming weeks will be vital.

        I’m looking for a candidate who will be best for representing Labour, and the best capable of winning a Left coalition government

        • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1
          20 October 2014 at 11:09 am

          A Labour supporter wouldn’t share CP’s views because CP contributes nothing of value to any conversation here, let alone this one.

          In evidence, I offer every comment they’ve ever made here.

          • boldsirbrian 2.1.1.1.1
            20 October 2014 at 1:44 pm

            @ One Anonymous Bloke (2.1.1.1)

            If John Key posted here, and said something that I agreed with, I would say so.

            All the so called “evidence” that you have on CP is not worth a brass razoo with regard to this conversation, surely?

            I do understand the nature of trolls. But the best way to handle a troll, (in my opinion) is to either ignore them, or make a quick reply, refuting a fact. I assumed that Paul was not treating CP as a troll, because he was engaging with CP and asking him follow up queries. To argue against what he says, on the basis of previous statements on other matters, (if that is what has happened) would not be particularly smart? In this case CP said something that I agreed with. It may be the first and last, but who knows….. ~smile~

            • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1.1.1
              20 October 2014 at 8:05 pm

              Yes, that’s how ratfucking works. John Key says something it’s impossible to disagree with then gets to look all hurt and shocked when people revile his government’s policies which betray his intentions.

              It works, because simpletons get to agree with the things he says, which are after all so much more anodyne and superficial than the knife in the back he represents.

              That nice Mr. Key, eh. Almost worth becoming a simpleton for.

    • Clemgeopin 2.2
      20 October 2014 at 8:42 am

      Remember that the deputy is potentially the Prime minister of the country if the leader were to resign or unable to continue in that position for whatever reason. Is Jacinda experienced and capable enough to be the PM under such a scenario. Isn’t this an important point to consider?

      • Lanthanide 2.2.1
        20 October 2014 at 9:17 am

        Unlike the United States, in NZ the party can easily replace the leader / PM at will, because the public elect the party to power. In the US, the public vote for the President and Vice President, so the party can’t just change leaders at-will.

        • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 2.2.1.1
          20 October 2014 at 9:27 am

          Yeah, so NZ could see a replay of late-1997 with Judith Collins launching a Shipley-like coup against Key and making herself Prime Minister, leapfrogging Double Dipton.

          Jenny ran the coup when Bolger was away at the Commonwealth HoG meeting, and Bill Birch(?) was ‘de facto’ doing-the-donkey-work deputy then (Winston was officially deputy). Jenny promptly got Wyatt Creech in as her deputy.

          • Lanthanide 2.2.1.1.1
            20 October 2014 at 9:50 am

            Jenny Shipley wasn’t seen as damaged goods at the time, though.

            Anyway, my point is that the “deputy automatically becomes PM” doesn’t really hold in NZ like it does in some other countries.

      • amiriterawshark 2.2.2
        20 October 2014 at 10:02 am

        Clemgeopin – I guess you could ask that same question of everyone who is in the game for a new role. As if experience means someone will perform better?Experience didn’t help Cunliffe, did it? What I’m trying to say, experience shouldn’t be the only factor in deciding if someone is right for the role. The ability to get on with others may be even more important at times.

  3. Not a PS Shark Sashimi 3
    20 October 2014 at 7:31 am

    The purpose of a runing mate is to draw preferences towards Robertson in teh leadership battle.
    What support will she earn from the membership? They hate Paula Bennett and are disappointed that Archer did not land any blows on her despiste the anti-poor policies and practices of her ministry. I thinks she weakens Robertson’s chances.

    • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 3.1
      20 October 2014 at 8:54 am

      I really don’t get the Gracinda launch yesterday. It wasn’t so long ago when someone who was running had recommended a deputy and he received damning reaction from a significant number in caucus. But, this time, such a pairing is meant to invite darling reaction?
      What is different this time? What has changed?

      • Lanthanide 3.1.1
        20 October 2014 at 9:25 am

        “What is different this time? What has changed?”

        1. Grant is caucus’ favoured selection, whereas Cunliffe was caucus’ black sheep.
        2. Jacinda doesn’t look as much like favouring identity politics as Nanaia did; personally I don’t think Jacinda is that great (hasn’t done much), but Nanaia has been in Parliament for much longer than Jacinda, as well as been in government, and she hasn’t done much either, so it’s worse for her.
        3. Grant is running on a ‘new generation’ ticket by combining with Jacinda; Cunliffe’s choice simply looked like identity politics (and IIRC his initial justification for choosing her is that she represented Maori interests; the tone of it was all about who she represented, rather than what. I’ve tried to find this statement by Google but haven’t had any luck).

  4. just saying 4
    20 October 2014 at 7:34 am

    There’s a really good blog – “Secrets, Lies and Revelations” – from Beansprout at Local Bodies over there in the ‘feeds’ > > >
    (My linking sytem isn’t functioning).

    Thank god the Greens have hit the ground running!

    • Jenk 4.1
      20 October 2014 at 8:19 am

      And Rod Oram also had a good article in the SST on a similar theme. Sorry I can’t put a link to it because I can’t find it via my computer – had someone send it to me.
      Here’s the first part of what he said :

      ” Is free and rigorous debate increasingly suppressed in New Zealand?
      ………..
       ” I say yes. Suppression of evidence, ideas and debate, in ways subtle and now increasingly brutal, is my experience as a business journalist in New Zealand. It is no consolation we are just a micro example of an accelerating trend worldwide.”

      • just saying 4.1.1
        20 October 2014 at 8:26 am

        Are you having that problem too?
        I lost the ability to link with one of the Firefox “upgrades” I think.

    • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 4.2
      20 October 2014 at 9:37 am

      Try this:

      http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2014/10/secrets-lies-and-revelations.html

      Maybe bsprout would be kind enough to send his post over here so that we can comment on TS. I promise I will click the link a few times to make up for having it posted here.

  5. travellerev 5
    20 October 2014 at 8:19 am

    ISIS Here ISIS There, Women Fight Them Everywhere And Other Propaganda Myths To Get Us To Go To War

  6. hoom 6
    20 October 2014 at 9:25 am

    Key claims not to have been briefed yet on that all important urgent get together to fight ISIS meeting
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/257281/key-to-be-briefed-on-is-meeting
    Maybe his office was?

    And the direct attacks on Len Brown using the obviously ludicrous ‘councils cause poverty’ line begin
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20153995/auckland-mayor-discusses-potential-impact-of-rates-rise

  7. karol 7
    20 October 2014 at 10:32 am

    New left wing blog in the ‘sphere:

    Ontheleftnz

    Looks promising.

  8. framu 8
    20 October 2014 at 10:33 am

    the PM is fiddling round in treasury?

    blind trust does well?

    shame the reporter is so far up the money gods backside he didnt seem to notice that the PM shouldnt be anywhere near treasury

    • hoom 8.1
      20 October 2014 at 1:01 pm

      What a bunch of ass kissing non-journalistic fuckery.

      Its pretty bloody obvious that a big sell at record highs can trigger a drop & be very profitable at the same time.

      Furthermore both Bollard & I believe Wheeler have already done it previously & equally successfully in the post Brash period.

  9. b waghorn 9
    20 October 2014 at 10:43 am

    Interesting article in the farmers weekly buy Allen Emerson I don’t no how to link . FWplus.co.nz then scroll down.

  10. Wairua 10
    20 October 2014 at 1:22 pm

    Put yourself in the shoes of a National Party Campaign Manager.

    Your campaign has started badly.

    A prominent blogger related to the innermost circles of the National Party has disgraced himself by labelling a West Coaster ‘feral’ after he died in the back seat in a car crash.

    An investigative writer promises sensational revelations from an anonymous hacker.

    A German/Finnish millionaire, in strife with Hollywood and the US authorities, launches a new political party threatening to destabilise the ancien regime.

    You sit down with a few old heads and start calling in favours wherever you can – the Farmers Federation, the Australian Liberal Party, Hollywood .. the list goes on.

    Things seem to be going against you, but you win in convincing fashion.

    You are now in a strong position – so strong that the Prime Minister now has to refer to the Attorney General in some intelligence matters.

    What is missing here ?

    Public and private political polling throughout the campaign.

    It would be interesting to compare it with the events outlined above in a comprehensive post-election analysis.

  11. adam 11
    20 October 2014 at 1:48 pm

    A blog from one of my favourite collectives, ideas and action. The link is talking about the situation in Rojava and the role of the former Maoist/Stalinist organisation and organisers. Funny how working people can throw off lunatics like ISIS, just by working together.

    http://libcom.org/blog/rojava-anarcho-syndicalist-perspective-18102014

    I read this yesterday and was going to put it up – but housework was more important yesterday – now I have some free time. Hong Kong protests, and the odd odd attacks that are happening. On the up-side it seems the left is unified.

    http://libcom.org/blog/mk-hotpot-tensions

  12. travellerev 12
    20 October 2014 at 3:10 pm

    With the news that the Dutch government thinks it’s perfectly OK for motorbike gang members to go off fighting ISIS on the side of the Kurds. They are not OK with the other way around of course.
    Can’t have Muslim citizens fighting on the side of ISIS. They might come back battle hardened unlike Biker gang members apparently.
    The same is now happening with German gang members. Good for a bit of gun training I suppose for when you come back. You’ll be wearing that 1% badge with pride!

    And it just dawned on me that all the gangs including our blue suit, global elite bankster gang are fighting on the same side. And I kept seeing that picture of John “Merrill Lynch” Moko Key.

    • Raa 12.1
      21 October 2014 at 6:43 am

      .. they were not ‘just’ bikers, but military veterans. They did not ride Harley’s overland with an arsenal in their panniers and long weapons on their backs. They probably flew via Ankara, then closer to Kobane. That implies NATO involvement. It is time to read George Orwell again ..

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

      • travellerev 12.1.1
        21 October 2014 at 7:00 am

        Interesting information. The MSM did not make that distinction though. They promoted the bikers for Kurds meme. And of course they did not drive their bikes down there. Turkey is a popular holiday country for Europeans and it would have been totally legit to travel to Istanbul or Ankara and travel on to wherever you wanted to go. I’m not sure if the Turkish government would be happy with the bikers/veterans hooking up with the Kurds though.

  13. Draco T Bastard 13
    20 October 2014 at 3:22 pm

    John Key on Iraq: A timeline:

    At this rate, we will Always Have had Troops In Iraq by the end of the month.

    This government is getting more 1984ish by the day.

  14. Colonial Rawshark 14
    20 October 2014 at 4:13 pm

    I am chasing down a theory. That “Gracinda” was a term first used here on The Standard (last night at 11:07 pm).

    Can anyone here find an example of an earlier use of the term in relation to Grant Robertson and Jacinda Ardern running as a ticket?

    • Kiwiri - Raided of the Last Shark 14.1
      20 October 2014 at 7:06 pm

      My search in the past few minutes reveal the following, so he can have the prize, going by the published time (at 4:12pm) – I was not aware of it when I came up with it last night:

      https://twitter.com/secondzeit/status/523672967209709570

      Both you and I had a good exchange about it which would have led, generated or added to the publicity for that moniker.

  15. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 15
    20 October 2014 at 4:17 pm

    Why does Trotter have to put on that silly voice?

  17. Chooky 17
    20 October 2014 at 5:28 pm

    From the Daily Blog ..Professor Jane Kelsey on latest on TPPA

    “Why you should join the TPPA Action on 8 November”

    By Prof Jane Kelsey / October 20, 2014

    On 8 November 2014, thousands of Kiwis will take part in the International Day of Action to protest the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA). The rally cry for us is TPPA – Corporate Trap, Kiwis Fight Back….

    – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/10/20/why-you-should-join-the-tppa-action-on-8-november/#sthash.CyQz1qmf.dpuf

  18. Ecosse_Maidy 18
    20 October 2014 at 6:56 pm

    Did anyone else hear on the radio this morning Bryan Gould was interviewed and will be convening a group to look into the election results for Labour? ………GO Bryan!!!
    Lets bring True Labour back to it’s core values to engage us all.

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10635939/Ex-MP-to-head-panel-of-inquiry

  19. Draco T Bastard 19
    20 October 2014 at 8:04 pm

    And the MSM continue their reporting on:

    Middle names like Llewellyn to Gollan were revealed but Labour’s Phil Twyford takes the cake with his middle name – Stoner.

    Anything but the bloody news.

  20. Beatie 20
    20 October 2014 at 8:59 pm

    https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=848171158547756

    Excellent video from Steven Wilkinson about john Key.

  21. North 21
    21 October 2014 at 10:33 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11346010

    It’s fucking outrageous !

    Let’s hope some sane District Court judge horribly offended by cultural violence makes mincement of these prideful wee soldiers of the Sick Authoritarian Society. And awards costs. Liberally.

    If you’re foreign, wedged-up, corporate – you can do what the fuck. Not so for the scummy indigents it would appear. Time to hit back methinks. Everybody go ‘freedom camping’ in search of that delicious little fish thing ! Make sure you take a net. Very important evidentially.

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