Open Mike 23/11/2018

Written By: - Date published: 5:59 am, November 23rd, 2018 - 194 comments
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194 comments on “Open Mike 23/11/2018 ”

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  1. Ed 1
    23 November 2018 at 6:09 am

    Massive news.

    “China, Russia poised to ditch US dollar.

    China and Russia are drafting a pact to boost the use of their national currencies in bilateral and international trade, underscoring their intent to cut their reliance on the US dollar.
    The development of a new international financial payments system aims to address rising concerns over additional US sanctions and trade tariffs.
    Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, during his visit to China earlier this month, said the two nations were discussing the launch of a new cross-border system for direct payment of trade invoices in the yuan and the rouble.
    He also said discussions were underway to allow the use of China’s UnionPay credit card in Russia and Russia’s Mir card in China.
    The impetus for creating a new financial infrastructure is the continued deterioration in both countries’ relations with the United States and the threat that Washington will impose more economic sanctions on one or both of them.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12164779

    • Cinny 1.1
      23 November 2018 at 7:30 am

      Woah, that is major news. Wonder how agent orange is going to react.

      • Brwildered 1.1.1
        23 November 2018 at 9:34 am

        All spin Cinny, just think about it, if some one siad to you I will pay you in US dollars or Roubles or yuan, what would you take, I suggest US dollars, why, because a lot less riskier in regards to a store of value and medium of exchange The US dollar as the world reserve currency has many years to run yet This is just posturing by China and Russia , heck even the establishment in China and Russia get thier cash into US dollars and western assets as quick as they can

        • gsays 1.1.1.1
          23 November 2018 at 10:41 am

          Isn’t U$A massively in debt?
          Essentially insolvent.
          I thought they owed a lot of money to China.

        • Gabby 1.1.1.2
          23 November 2018 at 1:31 pm

          I dunno beewee, the chinese keep their reniminimibimby pretty constant by hook or by crook. Granted they call it something different every week but never mind that.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2
        23 November 2018 at 12:50 pm

        He’ll double down on his trade war.

        • Cinny 1.1.2.1
          23 November 2018 at 2:10 pm

          Aye, that would be his style, competitive as.

        • SpaceMonkey 1.1.2.2
          23 November 2018 at 6:02 pm

          Yep… but in long run I don’t think it’s going to work. Any gains to the US economy will be short term and the US can’t run from it’s debt forever… this is a path to a hot war.

          • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2.2.1
            23 November 2018 at 6:17 pm

            I keep looking at what the US does and keep coming to the conclusion that they really actually want a hot war and that neither Iraq invasions were enough for what they want. They seem to be gunning for another world war.

    • gsays 1.2
      23 November 2018 at 7:32 am

      Popcorn and opera glasses.
      Don’t want to be close when this goes down.

    • Infused 1.3
      23 November 2018 at 7:50 am

      Theyve said that foryears

    • DJ Ward 1.4
      23 November 2018 at 8:12 am

      That is massive news.

      I don’t know how true this is but I have read that Gaddafi was taken out due his attempts to create an African currency.
      Also Iraq was attacked because it was attempting to trade its oil outside of US exchanges. Iran for the same reason.

      • joe90 1.4.1
        23 November 2018 at 9:09 am

        Nah, it doesn’t mean anything much.

        China has limited power to set prices in its own currency and Russia’s moribund economy, 8% of the U.S. GDP, is shrinking as we speak.

        • Bewildered 1.4.1.1
          23 November 2018 at 9:40 am

          Yep all impact credibility of these countries as a store of value and medium of exchange Also both currency do not have free floating exchange rates thus further complications and risk as a reserve currency

          • Draco T Bastard 1.4.1.1.1
            23 November 2018 at 12:43 pm

            The reason why the US$ was the Reserve Currency was because the US$ was still on the Gold Standard. That was the only reason. Once the US dumped the Gold Standard and floated their dollar (Thus unilaterally breaking the Bretton Woods Agreement) it was no longer the Reserve Currency.

            The rest of the world just continued as if it was but the reality is that the world no longer has a Reserve Currency.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.4.1.2
          23 November 2018 at 12:49 pm

          Wrong. It’s huge.

          China and Russia only have to set prices in their currency in their countries. Russia then buys Chinese goods using yuan and vice versa.

          Thing is, if NZ then wants to import from China they then have to buy yuan first.

          And so does every other country. Having US$ won’t help.

          There’s a every good reason why China is recognised as the engine of the world. That reason is why the US is presently trying to start a trade war with China.

        • SpaceMonkey 1.4.1.3
          23 November 2018 at 6:08 pm

          I don’t think you can write this off so quickly. Russia has considerable resources that everyone wants and China is the world’s biggest factory. If Russia and China front up with their considerable gold reserves and tie their currencies to those… US dollar goes south. And don’t forget the other BRICs nations whose economies are also huge.

      • Exkiwiforces 1.4.2
        23 November 2018 at 5:02 pm

        Yes, old Saddam wanted to and was trading his oil in EUR to the the EU which suited the EU at the time. But when Saddam tried to conduct all of oil trades in EUR IAW the UN Oil for Food program as he was getting more money out of the EUR than the USD which is the current defact’o trading currency for Oil.

        Gaddafi again wanted to trade oil in EUR, as most of his oil usually went to the EU and I believe this was one of his conditions if he surrendered his WMD’s, then he could trade EUR as most of his oil exports went to the EU. What happened in Libya is very complex with a few nations (US/ Israel, EU and Russia) having their own agendas which got of hand rather quickly.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.5
      23 November 2018 at 12:38 pm

      https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-13-11-2018/#comment-1549754

      Russia excels in ditching dollar ahead of pending US sanctions against country’s financial system

      The list of the countries currently taking active steps towards eliminating their economic reliance on the US dollar is growing. Russia has joined a league of nations is making a lot of headway with the task, the WSJ reports.

      Russia is hardly the only country trying to fight against the predominance of US currency across the global financial system. The European Union has recently announced plans to create a special purpose vehicle to keep on trading with Iran, as these transactions had become a target for US unilateral sanctions. The partners are reportedly working on using the euro in mutual trade and other business activities.

      So, not impossible to disconnect from the present US dominated financial system.

  2. Ed 2
    23 November 2018 at 6:26 am

    Adam Garfield nails it.

    ‘J.F.K’s speech from his final months of life should be read throughout the world. In it he calls for an era of world peace and an end to the Cold War. I believe he paid the ultimate price for uttering these beautiful words.’

    Here is an excerpt.

    “I have, therefore, chosen this time and this place to discuss a topic on which ignorance too often abounds and the truth too rarely perceived – and that is the most important topic on earth: Peace.

    What kind of a peace do I mean? What kind of a peace do we seek? Not a Pax Americana enforced on the world by American weapons of war. Not the peace of the grave or the security of the slave. I am talking about genuine peace, the kind of peace that makes life on earth worth living, the kind that enables men and nations to grow and to hope and build a better life for their children — not merely peace for Americans but peace for all men and women — not merely peace in our time but peace for all time.”

    Whole speech here.
    https://t.co/SKlPJU66Rh?amp=1

    As George Galloway says,
    ‘John Fitzgerald Kennedy first and only Roman Catholic President of the United States murdered this day likely by the deep state of his own country 55 years ago in Dallas Texas. ’

    • WeTheBleeple 2.1
      23 November 2018 at 7:40 am

      I’m a bit slow on all this type of thing: How much of all this is the result of the US Petrodollar scam?

      You know, 1974, Nixon and Saudi Arabia declare their friendship with a Military Alliance and forcing global demand for USD…

      40 years financing from foreign debt.

      I think their chickens are coming home to roost and no matter how many terrorists they find under bushes the whole sham seems to be nothing but a power play.

      • DJ Ward 2.1.1
        23 November 2018 at 8:23 am

        The problem with economies driven by debt is that eventually everybody has so much debt that they can’t borrow more and the economy collapses. To keep the economy going by driving it with more debt you must make debt cheaper. Eventually you can’t make debt cheaper and people can no longer afford more debt. The economy collapses.

        NZ is a textbook example.
        Both Labour and National are guilty.
        Hopefully someone can find a debt, history graph, as it would show debt driving the housing market rises starting in the Cullen era. Key was just as guilty.

        Not 100% sure what was happening post Lange to Clarke. But probably started then.

        • OnceWasTim 2.1.1.1
          23 November 2018 at 12:36 pm

          Probably started even earlier than that.

          However, why my exceptional self is deigning to comment in among all the ‘centre right sperts’ that come in here as ‘disruptors’ rather than a genuine attempt to engage in discussion, is that (whatever you think of the Guardian these days, or Bobby Kennedy for that matter) is this little gem:
          https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/may/24/robert-kennedy-gdp

          And we continue to use it as a measure.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.2
          23 November 2018 at 1:11 pm

          The problem with economies driven by debt is that eventually everybody has so much debt that they can’t borrow more and the economy collapses.

          That’s what Steve Keen says and he was the most accurate economist in predicting the GFC. A prediction that he based upon the rise of debt.

          Since the GFC, debt has accelerated again and thus the economy must collapse again. It’s not a business cycle that the economists say is happening (and which they also tell us that they don’t understand) but the inbuilt failure of the system.

  3. Jenny 3
    23 November 2018 at 6:31 am

    ‘

    “Conservation fight should be applauded”
    Stuff.co.nz, Editorial, November 23, 2018

    The environmental charity Forest & Bird has been doing the Lord’s work on the West Coast in its ongoing legal tussle with mining company Rangitira Developments……

    Not once in this good news story about the monumental rear guard struggle by Forest & Bird against the Te Kuha coal mine, do the words “climate change” appear, not even once.

    And for good reason, which is, because it is illegal to mention it as an objection to such projects.
    Forest & Bird may have “been doing the Lord’s work” in stopping the Te Kuha Coal Mine expansion onto conservation land, but F&B and other environmental groups like Greenpeace have been doing this work with one hand tied behind their backs.

    A law passed under the Clark administration and still on the books under the Ardern administration makes it illegal for conservation groups to raise climate change as an objection in planning consent hearings for projects like Te Kuha.

    Under the Key administration F&B and Greenpeace took a joint high court case, (which they lost), to overturn the ban on raising climate change as a grounds for stopping new coal mines.

    The judge hearing the case effectively ruled that the ban on raising climate change as an objection to coal mines or other fossil fuel projects is the law and it was not the courts job to over rule legislation passed by government.

    • Jenny 3.1
      23 November 2018 at 6:45 am

      The Supreme Court dismissed the appeal, finding that the purpose of the 2004 Amendment Act precluded consent authorities from taking into account indirect discharges of greenhouse gases in considering applications for resource consents.

      http://climatecasechart.com/non-us-case/west-coast-ent-inc-v-buller-coal-ltd/

    • Ad 3.2
      23 November 2018 at 7:29 am

      Hasn’t stopped Forest and Bird winning all the way.

    • DJ Ward 3.3
      23 November 2018 at 8:29 am

      There is enormous amounts of Coal in the north Waikato region. Maramarua, Huntly. The conservation value is effectively 0% as its developed land. More importantly the after mining proposals create improved environments compared to bland grassland.

      • Dennis Frank 3.3.1
        23 November 2018 at 8:40 am

        Nah, they’d be too scared to dig there. The local taniwha would eat them for breakfast. Remember it scared the govt so much the highway had to be diverted around it? Having defeated the govt, it would relish the opportunity to chomp a corporation or two as well.

        That would be why Genesis is importing coal from Indonesia to burn in its Huntly power station, I presume. Comments to the Stuff article thread mock the coalition for creating a silly outcome: digging up coal in Indonesia, shipping it here, burning it here to make power, instead of digging it here and burning it here to make power. From an economic efficiency perspective, Genesis customers get to pay more for power. From a climate-change perspective, same global warming result.

        • Wayne 3.3.1.1
          23 November 2018 at 9:11 am

          Actually more greenhouse emissions than using local coal since it first has to be shipped to NZ and rail freighted from Tauranga to the power station.
          It also illustrates why the government decision on oil and gas is so flawed. Gas powered electric generation plants emit half the CO2 of a coal fired plant. This was the prime reason why US CO2 emissions have dropped so much since 2010. Fracked gas is much better than coal from a CO2 standpoint.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.3.1.1.1
            23 November 2018 at 1:23 pm

            Gas powered electric generation plants emit half the CO2 of a coal fired plant.

            And solar power and wind and hydro and geothermal emit infinitely less in producing electricity. A policy of the greens going into the election was the development of our silicon deposits to produce solar panels.

            It is your ideology, your insistence that we keep killing ourselves to keep the gas flowing that is fatally flawed.

            • Wayne 3.3.1.1.1.1
              23 November 2018 at 3:23 pm

              You have to have some back up from thermal, in which case it is better if it is gas rather than coal.

              It will be at least 20 years (probably more like 30) before literally 100% of all NZ electricity could be from entirely renewable sources (including geothermal and hydro).

              • Draco T Bastard …
                23 November 2018 at 3:56 pm

                You have to have some back up from thermal

                No we don’t. We do need diversity of electricity production but none of it needs to be fossil fuelled.

                It will be at least 20 years (probably more like 30)…

                And it’s going to be at least that long before all present and existing permits expire. Of course, almost all of the fossil fuels extracted in NZ is exported so, really, all we’d need to do is to stop exporting it.

                Of course, if the government decided to pull out all the stops we could have full renewables in ten years or so.

        • bwaghorn 3.3.1.2
          23 November 2018 at 9:13 am

          Standard wealth country carry on . Sit on high saying how clean we are while shifting our mines /factories etc to low wage poorly regulated contries

          • Draco T Bastard 3.3.1.2.1
            23 November 2018 at 1:24 pm

            +111

            That’s exactly what we’ve been doing.

          • patricia bremner 3.3.1.2.2
            23 November 2018 at 3:28 pm

            bwaghorn. Right on!! In Australia communities are fighting the high flyers who moved problem industries to poor areas “Jobs you know”
            They didn;t mention air quailty water quality waste disposal and health problems… oh… and unemployment when the industry closed.
            Now people are counting the true costs!! They are suing Departments and States.

        • Sacha 3.3.1.3
          23 November 2018 at 9:19 am

          Or, you know, Genesis could invest in renewables instead. Better certainty for their customers, shareholders and neighbours.

      • Gabby 3.3.2
        23 November 2018 at 1:37 pm

        It’s not going anywhere dud4. SirPonyboy has faih in the ability of science to make it safe in the future,so we’ll just keep it til then.

        • DJ Ward 3.3.2.1
          23 November 2018 at 1:52 pm

          If you say DJ it would use even less letters. Think of all the greenhouse gasses your saving by not having to illuminate the extra 2 letters on everybody’s screen.

          • Muttonbird 3.3.2.1.1
            23 November 2018 at 2:13 pm

            Well, I expect extra letters on screen results in less illumination, not more.

            Also, it’s fewer letters, not less letters.

            And you’re, not your.

    • Dennis Frank 3.4
      23 November 2018 at 8:31 am

      Just another Helen Clark fighting the Green movement story? Well no, the question is, are GP & F&B lobbying the current govt to legislate a solution to the problem created by her and the Supreme Court? If not, why not?? That’s the real story. Protesting about the situation doesn’t solve the problem.

    • SaveNZ 3.5
      23 November 2018 at 9:23 am

      The RMA needs urgent reform such as not hobbling the environment by banning the words climate change. Really if they have nothing to hide, make it an even playing field so that climate change objections can be argued, they don’t because the system is legally geared now NOT to protect the environment or reduce climate change which is why Jacinda’s ‘Climate change is our nuclear free moment’ rings very hollow after 1 year of their leadership. They passed other things in 100 days, no attempt on climate change in areas where it could reduce the most damage. Forest and Bird and the community should not have to spend all their money and not be able to fight commercial projects because the whole RMA has been targeted by the Natz to be the most expensive and least likely to win.

      Think about it you can go to small claims, tenancy, criminal courts, all with small legal fees, try stopping a McDonald in your area or someone stealing water or polluting the sea and air, and you are up for $50k+ in legal costs. Not a coincidence. Likewise employment court costs a fortune too. So if you want to know why we have weak employment and weak environment in NZ, the answer is the legal systems that are geared only to the rich and powerful and heavily reduced community say.

  4. Dennis Frank 4
    23 November 2018 at 6:36 am

    Looking like a Brexit agreement is in the pipeline, so what’s the guts? “Anything that is negotiated must be consistent with the EU’s four freedoms – the free movement of goods, services, capital and people. And nothing will be agreed that threatens the sovereignty of the United Kingdom.” https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46303751

    “The two sides are committing themselves to an “ambitious, wide-ranging and balanced” economic partnership, based on a comprehensive free trade agreement. But there is also repeated emphasis that there must be a level playing field, which ensures open and fair competition.” “The declaration also mentions explicitly an “independent trade policy” for the UK in the future.”

    “As expected, the regulation of financial services will be based on a system of “equivalence” and the aim is to negotiate the details in this key sector before the end of June 2020. There’s nothing in the language here to suggest that the UK will get better terms than any other third country dealing with the EU – but that will be a key negotiating aim.”

    “Rather like the Draft Withdrawal Agreement, the political declaration envisages a system of dispute resolution involving a joint committee and an arbitration panel. But once again, on matters of EU law (and there will be a lot of that involved in any future relationship) the final word will rest with the European Court of Justice. The government will point out that after Brexit the direct jurisdiction of the ECJ in the UK will come to an end.”

  5. marty mars 5
    23 November 2018 at 7:54 am

    Good article on this phenomenon.

    While people’s attraction to conspiracy theories might seem illogical, it stems from a very logical desire to make sense of the world. Assigning meaning to what happens has helped humans to thrive as a species, and conspiracy theories are internally cohesive stories that “help us to understand the unknown whenever things happen that are fearful or unexpected,” said Jan-Willem van Prooijen, a social psychologist at Vrije University in Amsterdam. For some believers, the sense of comfort and clarity such stories bring can override the question of their truth value.

    Conspiracy theories also supply a seductive ego boost. Believers often consider themselves part of a select in-group that — unlike the deluded masses — has figured out what’s really going on.

    https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/07/20/why-do-people-believe-the-moon-landing-hoax-or-other-conspiracy-theories/

    • Dennis Frank 5.1
      23 November 2018 at 8:08 am

      I was interested, but the WP guardian robot held me up at the entrance, demanding a dollar to read it. I didn’t think it would be worth that much.

      If they are describing the true believer syndrome, that’s only part of the story. Shallow journalism. Sensible people use conspiracy theories like any other kind of theory: a model of reality, of which the utility depends on the fit. Just like scepticism really. A sceptic performs a critical evaluation of the fit. Scepticism becomes a pathology when taken to the true believer extreme, such as not believing in something because you haven’t detected it with your physical senses.

      “Believers often consider themselves part of a select in-group that — unlike the deluded masses — has figured out what’s really going on.” True. Exactly that behaviour was consistently exhibited by Vicki Hyde & Denis Dutton whenever they were invited onto RNZ to perform their bigotry on behalf of the sceptics’ society.

      • marty mars 5.1.1
        23 November 2018 at 8:51 am

        “You can also give yourself an up-close look at how the sausage is made. Kreko has given some of his students a unique assignment: Take two completely unconnected events (9/11 and North Korea’s nuclear bomb testing, for instance) and invent a plausible connection between them — which, as the Internet shows, is exactly what real conspiracy theorists do. “Think about any tragic events in the past 100 years,” Kreko said. “Google this tragedy and ‘Jews,’ and you will find something.” His students find the theory-generating exercise surprisingly easy, and he hopes it makes them wary of future supposed conspiracies they catch wind of.”

        “While it may be hard to remember in the heat of a debunking session, many conspiracy theorists’ motives are noble, even if their yarn-spinning is not. “People who believe conspiracy theories are deeply concerned about the future of society,” van Prooijen said. “Why would we [try to] make sense of events we don’t care about?” ”

        Sorry you can’t read it.

        • Dennis Frank 5.1.1.1
          23 November 2018 at 9:34 am

          Thanks. I agree with the teacher. Getting students to imagine semi-plausible connections is a productive method. Connects two vital parts of the psyche: reasoning and imagination. Also a third: storytelling, from which we get media.

          If his intention is to upskill students via critical thinking, I support that too. I just hope he doesn’t head over the top with it. Conspiracies are endemic in human society, and history is replete with them as a result. Critical thinking is best directed to sorting out the loopy time-wasting conspiracy theories from the ones that have powerful explicatory value. The latter are crucial to discerning subtle networks of power that affect us all…

          • marty mars 5.1.1.1.1
            23 November 2018 at 9:47 am

            “It’s tempting to dismiss conspiracy theorists as wearers of tinfoil hats. But the theories should be taken seriously for their effects on political and social discourse… ”

            That effect is exactly what the right wingers want as disclosed in dirty politics – muddy the waters, create confusion and disorder, create fear, sow dissent and divide people – put them off even being involved in discussion because it’s all spin and lies and disinformation. The right are the winners.

            • francesca 5.1.1.1.1.1
              23 November 2018 at 10:07 am

              So you suggest we have total faith in whatever our media feed us?
              How do you define a conspiracy theory?
              When does healthy scepticism and knowledge of how power works through the media become conspiracy theory. Or is that notion too difficult?Posited to “divide and confuse”
              The Manufacture of Consent required reading
              All schools should undertake not just critical analysis of Shakespeare , but for newspaper articles and all media as well
              The Lead up to the Iraq war, or the Intervention in Libya, and the media’s role …
              Discuss

              • greywarshark …
                23 November 2018 at 3:04 pm

                Sounds like a good scheme. Just getting vital statistics from newspapers printed or on-line, and checking them – good. And getting vital staistics of the paper’s biases by counting them – good.

                What is behind many of the pronouncements? A red wind a day is good for you. Chocolate is good for your brain – but only if it is dark and not much sweetened. What are the facts backing this? Who publishes them, and what is their provenance. Looking at blue light stories and warnings about eye harm, and sleep disruption harm. What scientific studies – true or false.

                If we had more enquiring, sceptical minds we wouldn’t hear so much from fluoride scare groups and vaccination. Critical thought needed, and through state schools preferably, otherwise we get parents acting to continue old ideas brushing aside new ones which need to be thought about and measured in the wider world.

              • McFlock …
                23 November 2018 at 3:46 pm

                When does healthy scepticism and knowledge of how power works through the media become conspiracy theory.

                I generally go by there being a maximum of two iterations of “if A is true, then it follows that B must (according to my best reckons or dictionary interpretation) also be true”.

                Two “ifs” and two “reckons”. After that you’re likely out of the realm of fact-based speculation and are just contemplating your own wet dreams.

                • francesca …
                  23 November 2018 at 5:39 pm

                  Yep
                  I think I’d agree with you there
                  Also:
                  anonymous sources,… “a person close to the investigation suggested”,
                  and “evidence not able to be presented to the public for reasons of national security”is way over used.
                  I’d love to see kids taught to cross reference, track down info at its source, find facts rather than be manipulated by pre digested reporting and opinion making.
                  Newspapers these days are far too infested with ill informed opinion. Its cheaper to write than investigative journalism.(Even when the info is freely available but might require time in verifying)

                  • McFlock …
                    23 November 2018 at 5:59 pm

                    yeah, I tend to count most of those unnamed sources as an “if”, unless the context makes it pretty clear what their objective/source is.

    • McFlock 5.2
      23 November 2018 at 2:34 pm

      It turned out that both rationality and ridicule were somewhat effective in reducing participants’ belief in the theory, while empathy was largely ineffective. Showing concern for a conspiracy theory’s victims, the study suggests, isn’t a good debunking strategy — especially when the theory is racist, discriminatory or otherwise harmful.

      heh that tickles me confirmation bias…

  6. cleangreen 6
    23 November 2018 at 8:09 am

    More privatisation woes here spells good reasons why we need to build our own Government construction company as what we had before 1980’s.

    We had our own Ministry of Works who built our roads, rail, hydro-electric power stations and much more.

    Privatisation does not work, just look at our large private construction companies like Fletchers and their ilk have all but gone now.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/376598/city-rail-link-engineering-company-goes-bust

    City Rail Link engineering company goes bust
    6:37 am today

    The Australian engineering firm that was set to build the Auckland City Rail Link’s entire underground network has gone into administration.

    • dV 6.1
      23 November 2018 at 8:21 am

      And the contract was awarded just last month!!! (Is that correct?)

    • SaveNZ 6.2
      23 November 2018 at 8:31 am

      @Cleangreen and DV

      Tits up already. Overseas OZ company that seems solvent one week and insolvent the next! Agree with CleanGreen better if we are having huge infrastructure the government has it’s own company and just buys in the staff and expertise under their own umbrella. Maybe push off AT Chairman and put him in charge because I think he runs Tomkin & Taylor which is at least reputable as a NZ engineering company.

      • patricia bremner 6.2.1
        23 November 2018 at 1:52 pm

        Australia is entering a depressed period with house prices falling and the banks facing fines and payouts there is now a credit crunch. The parent company in Aus is not able to get funding and has been put under administration, though the NZ arm is solvent.

    • Bewilderd 6.3
      23 November 2018 at 9:49 am

      Yep bring back MOW, it allowed a lot of my mates to have the best garages and private tool collections in history, not to mention jobs for life no matter how useless you where, with no skin in the game re quality, timeliness and productivity on the job If you did not like MOW there was always the railways to fall back on , ah the good old days

      • Morrissey 6.3.1
        23 November 2018 at 9:54 am

        You’re simply repeating National Party/ACT lies. To its eternal shame, the Labour Party indulged in this kind of lie, too, in 1984, when Richard Prebble claimed, without any evidence, that the Department of Railways had “lost a locomotive.” He kept repeating that lie throughout 1984 and 1985.

        • patricia bremner 6.3.1.1
          23 November 2018 at 1:53 pm

          Prebble was always a closet Act party member

          • Morrissey 6.3.1.1.1
            23 November 2018 at 4:23 pm

            Quite correct, patricia.

          • cleangreen 6.3.1.1.2
            23 November 2018 at 6:51 pm

            100% Patricia

            Labour still has other ‘Closet act members in labour.

            ‘Our Scrooge Minister of finance’ is one with his tight wad monetary policies.

            I am a labour voter for life but am becoming disappointing with the blue tingle to Labour’s tight monetary polices, that was why we voted for NZ First along with Labour as NZ First want to bring back the “reserve bank act” so Government can fund the massive restoration of all our rotting infrastructure the national Party get go of with their “deferred maintenance policies.

            During then 1930’s depression NZ used the reserve Act to build our infrastructure and we need to do this again now, and not borrow overseas money in a trap as when the next Global economic crash comes we will be trapped by foreign banks taking us all down with bank repo’s of our assets totally. like Greece was setup as.

      • millsy 6.3.2
        23 November 2018 at 10:37 am

        You could say the same about most organisations back then. I would like to think that inventory control has improved a little.

      • Professor Longhair 6.3.3
        23 November 2018 at 10:55 am

        Fool. Liar. Propagandist.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.3.4
        23 November 2018 at 1:49 pm

        Ah, I see that you believe the lies told to you by the corporations and their lapdogs, National.

      • Gabby 6.3.5
        23 November 2018 at 2:56 pm

        Your mates sound like scum beewee. Big fucking shocker.

      • greywarshark 6.3.6
        23 November 2018 at 3:14 pm

        The good new days – you can’t get a house finished to time. People turn up late, don’t co=ordinate and it pays to be on the spot and watching them. Ah
        the brave new world!

        And this is not looking at the times of the leaky building scams that act as a stress producer and financial borer that eats out the heartwood of people’s homes.. I think you are out of your league here beewee.

        There were scams I know about in the past, but I haven’t been impressed with the new ones that have been finessed in the last decades. It seems that the MOW is needed, even if to be a bottom line base to ensure that everyone has to prove themselves better.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.4
      23 November 2018 at 1:48 pm

      Yep. That is the overarching reason government work should never be outsourced to private concerns. The chances that the private operation goes bust leaving the government and the people in the lurch and down millions of dollars is simply too high.

  7. greywarshark 7
    23 November 2018 at 8:22 am

    Need more truck drivers. Making it hard to get car drivers licence as the first step, keeps young capable people out of training for their truck drivers licence which includes further over-long training and $thousands.

    Then there are declining margins for the truck companies who have limits on wages, and then there are tough time limits to keep to, and to get the stuff through may require longer hours than are lawful and regarded as healthy for the driver, and for reducing accidents caused by tiredness.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.1
      23 November 2018 at 1:52 pm

      But, but, the free-market is supposed to take care of all that and we really don’t need rail despite the fact that it use less drivers to move more freight more efficiently.

  8. greywarshark 8
    23 November 2018 at 8:28 am

    There was a mention of a need for MOW for infrastructure this morning on Radionz. It has been spoken in public! But not from any of the Propaganda Pussies, it was from a transport group.

    Three months after winning a contract for part of Auckland’s rail renewal a big company goes into receivership. IIRR

    Didn’t we get sold on neo liberalism being more efficient than government? And being able to get on with whatever was needed for an effective, thriving economy?
    What a sell-out. Who do we sue for breach of promise?

    • cleangreen 8.1
      23 November 2018 at 8:47 am

      Yes greywarshark;-

      We all got sold heavy loaded bullshit for sure about privisation being ‘more efficient’ as Ministry of Works (MOW) was the very best we had to build our infrastructure.

      I should know this as as I worked on the Tongararo Power scheme over 5 yrs and saw how great the engineers were and the whole setup built the best roads that never failed like the roads do now with Australian Downers building cheap shoddy road maintenance systems on our “soft rock based roads now.

      Downers are taking us as fools again here and are rorting the public purse through our Government agency NZTA/MBIE coffers doing cheap shoddy work.

      “Soft rock under base roads” are not designed for heavy truck weight loading”.

      read all about it here.

      https://ac.els-cdn.com/S1878522015002787/1-s2.0-S1878522015002787-main.pdf?_tid=5f08e01c-d4f4-4e4b-a7b0-dde5ef070670&acdnat=1542863338_358f351a5035f2d2aeca117936573cd7
      World Multidisciplinary earth sciences symposium.

      The Issue Of Using ‘Soft Rocks’ Causing Problems In Foundation Engineering.

      NZ Engineers call our regional roads “soft roads.”

      In this study it shows that when considering road geology ‘soft rocks under these roads cause a considerable reduction in any road ‘weight bearing abilities’.

      So if “soft rocks are under our roads, the literature states those roads are not suitable for carrying heavy weight bearing loads.

      Such heavy weighted loads we suggest are similar to heavy laden trucks of 52 tonnes to 62 tonnes.

      • greywarshark 8.1.1
        23 November 2018 at 8:53 am

        cleangreen
        I think I’ll send your email to my father who was involved with road building some years back. The ones he worked on have stood well to time, and it gives him a lot of pleasure looking at the areas today that he worked on.

      • DJ Ward 8.1.2
        23 November 2018 at 9:46 am

        That is true for the SH1 projects north of Hamilton.

        But what do you do. There’s no majic path of hard rocks to follow as is the case in many other areas. The upgrading (4 lanes) and bypasses are a necessity. Even the rail needs regular relaying in this area.

        The alternative is American style concrete roads.

        • gsays 8.1.2.1
          23 November 2018 at 10:48 am

          But whatI do you do?
          Umm.. get heavy trucks off the roads.

          • DJ Ward 8.1.2.1.1
            23 November 2018 at 11:12 am

            Not going to happen. That’s idealism and idealism virtualy always fails. What about the Quarry trucks, the farm to factory trucks, the sewage trucks, the scrap metal trucks, the bulldozer transport trucks, the on time courier trucks, the from the rail hub trucks.

            There is no doubt long haul trucking could change but that’s only a small part of a big picture.

            • cleangreen 8.1.2.1.1.1
              23 November 2018 at 6:59 pm

              DJ Ward.

              I drove the US highways for 6 yrs from Buffalo NY to Miami FL and yes concrete underbased roads are what is needed here.

              So how do we pay for this?

              Answer;

              Get trucks to pay for new roads that would carry their weight is the simple way, or just use rail that is much simpler and cost effective.

              • David Mac …
                23 November 2018 at 7:23 pm

                Are concrete roads wise in an earthquake prone country?

                All of the ‘Rail is cheaper’ models I’ve seen don’t include loading 60 head of cattle onto a truck running them X kms to the 200 lush hectares of pasture at every rail-head, herding the cattle again and loading them onto rolling stock.

                Rail is more efficient if we run a railway line to every tree and bobby calf….provided someone else is paying for the tracks.

                • DJ Ward …
                  23 November 2018 at 10:37 pm

                  I think if the design is correct it should be OK. Where you have fracture lines, or whatever there called, and the road is ruined in that spot it would still need major work, concrete or not.

                  North Wiakato doesn’t have many earthquakes so probably not an issue there.

    • SaveNZ 8.2
      23 November 2018 at 9:03 am

      When government’s do PPP type schemes (although I think maybe city link is not PPP? not sure) they found that they actually don’t reduce risk they just cost a lot more. Straight from horses mouth in UK where they had a go at PPP’s with their tube system in London and then had to roll it back and now they have over 300b pounds in debt for projects with an original capital cost of 55 billion pounds.

      “UK PFI debt now stands at over £300bn for projects with an original capital cost of £55bn”

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/30/pfi-britain-hospital-trust-debt-burden-tax

      “Conservatively estimated, the trusts appear to be paying a risk premium of about 30% of the total construction costs, just to get the hospitals built on time and to budget, a sum that considerably exceeds the evidence about past cost overruns.”

      • SaveNZ 8.2.1
        23 November 2018 at 9:05 am

        This report: https://image.guim.co.uk/sys-files/Society/documents/2004/11/24/PFI.pdf

        found that PPP “contracts are considerably more expensive than the cost of conventional procurement”, resulting in higher returns for the companies running the PPP’s compared to their industry peers.

        While hard to compare because of the opaque nature of many contracts and large amounts of subcontracting out, it looked like the actual cost of capital of the PPP’s was 11% compared to Treasure borrowing of 4.5% i.e. 6.5% higher. This is supposed to represent the cost of risk transfer but in practice there was no risk transfer so it’s money for nothing.

        “In conclusion, the road projects appear to be costing more than expected as reflected in net present costs that are higher than those identified by the Highways Agency (Haynes and Roden 1999), owing to rising traffic and contract changes. It is, however, impossible to know at this point whether or not VFM (value for money) has been or is indeed likely to be achieved because the expensive element of the service contract relates to maintenance that generally will not be required for many years.”

        Overall, for both roads and hospitals they concluded there was no risk transfer and not value for money.

        “The net result of all this is that while risk transfer is the central element in justifying VFM and thus PFI, our analysis shows that risk does not appear to have been transferred to the party best able to manage it. Indeed, rather than transferring risk to the private sector, in the case of roads DBFO has created additional costs and risks to the public agency, and to the public sector as a whole, through tax concessions that must increase costs to the taxpayer and/or reduce service provision. In the case of hospitals, PFI has generated extra costs to hospital users, both staff and patients, and to the Treasury through the leakage of the capital charge element in the NHS budget. In both roads and hospitals these costs and risks are neither transparent nor quantifiable. This means that it is impossible to demonstrate whether or not VFM has been, or indeed can be, achieved in these or any other projects.

        While the Government’s case rests upon value for money, including the cost of transferring risk, our research suggests that PFI may lead to a loss of benefits in kind and a redistribution of income, from the public to the corporate sector. It has boosted the construction industry, many of whose PFI subsidiaries are now the most profitable parts of their enterprises, and led to a significant expansion of the facilities management sector. But the main beneficiaries are likely to be the financial institutions whose loans are effectively underwritten by the taxpayers, as evidenced by the renegotiation of the Royal Armouries PFI (NAO 2001a).”

    • greywarshark 8.3
      23 November 2018 at 9:06 am

      NZ arm of rail infrastructure builder is not under receivership but its Australian parent is. I have heard before about NZ being used as the live tentacle of the parent octopus – there was Fairfax that sold off Trade Me to help reduce their debt in Australia. And I feel that banks here were buttressing them over there at one time.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.4
      23 November 2018 at 1:54 pm

      Didn’t we get sold on neo liberalism being more efficient than government?

      That’s what we were told. The evidence from both before and after proves that it was a lie.

      • Descendant Of Sssmith 8.4.1
        23 November 2018 at 9:33 pm

        Privatisation been going long enough now to see if the well touted 20% saving were realised.

        http://www.ub.edu/graap/metacost.pdf

        Guess what – they weren’t.

        “From our meta-regression analysis we find that cost savings under privatization are not supported. ”

        “Our meta-regression has shown that even where competition was more likely (US and UK), privatization has not delivered cost savings. Under contracting, pressures for market concentration overwhelm any cost savings from private competition or process efficiency gains.
        Across the world, econometric analysis of local government experience with privatization has shown that cost savings are ephemeral. The key to cost savings in public service delivery lies in managerial learning and innovation. How such managerial innovation is encouraged involves more than a simple focus on competition and substitution of private for public ownership. ”

        Compounded by the putting of lots of private sector neo-liberal dickheads into the public services looking for obedience, centralisation and the dismantling of the public service instead of investing in managerial learning and innovation as suggested. One family members organisation replaced three good public sector managers with two real estate agents and a used car salesman. Apparently, they interview well.

  9. joe90 9
    23 November 2018 at 8:45 am

    Harry isn’t out of the woods, yet.

    Dr says of treatment of Harry "we are begining to right the ship." But adds, "he is very sick." #istandwithharry— Harry Leslie Smith (@Harryslaststand) November 22, 2018

  10. greywarshark 10
    23 November 2018 at 8:51 am

    lprent
    What is the email for contacting you about operational matters? The old ones in the FAQs section is not operative for me.

  11. mauī 11
    23 November 2018 at 9:06 am

    Racist Scum. The treaty was signed almost 200 years ago you dickheads. Doesn’t take that long to understand or at least respect a culture you’re supposed to be in partnership with.

    “Māori slam Taxpayers Union for koha comments”
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018672469/maori-slam-taxpayers-union-for-koha-comments

    • bwaghorn 11.1
      23 November 2018 at 9:16 am

      Can you explain how this koha stuff works for us honkies at government levels.

      • mauī 11.1.1
        23 November 2018 at 9:21 am

        “1. (noun) gift, present, offering, donation, contribution – especially one maintaining social relationships and has connotations of reciprocity. In the modern context, in many tribes the koha is laid down on the marae by the visitors’ last speaker in the form of money collected prior to going onto the marae at the pōhiri, but not all tribes agree with this practice. Such koha would be intended for the marae and to be reciprocated at some time in the future, but koha given quietly to a leader in person (kōkuhu) would be intended to defray the costs of the hui…”

        http://maoridictionary.co.nz/

    • greywarshark 11.2
      23 November 2018 at 9:18 am

      ACT says that government doesn’t know what koha is spent on. They want no doubt an itemised list. This is the trouble with private enterprise running the country; they have no sense of enterprise! They want to be sure about getting the bang for their buck, but they only want to pay a few cents in reality. In the end nothing can be done because there is insufficient funding, and the ‘paperwork’ preparation takes longer than the actual event. And the openness of marae to extending access and hospitality to government and other bodies is being taken for granted instead of respected and cherished.

      What did we get for the good of the country from all the money paid to that tinpot little Party – ACT? Can they produce a document that lists their achievements for the people and country for each year they have been receiving funds. And also then pay for an automated reader to pick out the facts and physical results.

      • DJ Ward 11.2.1
        23 November 2018 at 9:54 am

        One thing I can say about ACT is that they are the only party to put forward a gender equality family court law. Which Helen and her “Feminist” freinds voted down.

        • Cinny 11.2.1.1
          23 November 2018 at 10:12 am

          Who are ACT?

          Ohhhhh I remember it’s that fella twerking on the telly who supplies templates for a far north national party mp to copy/paste.

        • Muttonbird 11.2.1.2
          23 November 2018 at 11:41 am

          ACT are particularly hot on the continuation of white male privilege. Not much future in it though.

          • DJ Ward 11.2.1.2.1
            23 November 2018 at 12:39 pm

            Very surprising you played the racism card, and the sexist card considering the law was put forward by a woman.

            • Draco T Bastard 11.2.1.2.1.1
              23 November 2018 at 2:00 pm

              Why does a law put forward by a woman automatically become non-sexist?

              • DJ Ward …
                23 November 2018 at 2:20 pm

                No the law was non sexist as it mandated 50:50 shared care.
                Muttonbirds comment “white male privilege” is racist and sexist inherently and an assumption to my comment.
                An implication that the law was put forward by a white male attempting to gain privilege over women. Hence the resulting, and justifying rejection by feminists.

                There are plenty of laws that are sexist, in practice, put forward by women in NZ. Although the definitions are not.
                There is also blatantly sexist laws as well.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  23 November 2018 at 2:46 pm

                  No the law was non sexist as it mandated 50:50 shared care.

                  Ah, so it was simply unworkable. Sometimes 50:50 shared would be bad for the children because one of the parents is unfit to be a parent.

                  But nothing of what you said answered my question. You implied that the law wasn’t sexist because it was put forward by a woman. Why would you do that?

                  • DJ Ward …
                    23 November 2018 at 3:32 pm

                    I’ll call bullshit on your 50:50 comment.
                    That was the starting point. If a person was unfit the courts could act appropriately. Plus the whole issue is far more complex than go to cop outs.
                    No read the comment agian. Muttonbird implied it was by a man. I informed him it wasn’t.
                    Any , wasn’t sexist because it was by a women was in your mind. I never said that.

                    The use of the term white male privilege is far more likely used by people who can’t argue the subject, compared to when the phrase is valid.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      23 November 2018 at 4:02 pm

                      That was the starting point.

                      You said it was mandated which means that the courts have no say.

                      Any , wasn’t sexist because it was by a women was in your mind. I never said that.

                      You implied that it couldn’t be sexist because it was put it was put forward by a woman. That was the entire point of your riposte and it could not be read any other way.

                      Just because it was put forward by a woman doesn’t mean that it didn’t extend white male privileged. After all, there are men in ACT as well. More men than women in fact and I’m pretty sure that they do have some sort of democracy. Which means that they would have voted on it.

                    • DJ Ward …
                      23 November 2018 at 4:23 pm

                      Yes I made a mistake with the term mandate.

                      How would be 50:50 shared care be white male privilege?

                      It is the same for Chinese, Indian, Europeans, male, female, gay, lesbian, Maori, Labour Party members, and ACT members.

                      It is equality. Anything else is not.

                      When only 6% of cases result in males getting custody awarded, are you telling me that we have “white male privilege” presently.
                      I would suggest we have something else.

                      “Laughing”

                    • McFlock …
                      23 November 2018 at 8:31 pm

                      Maybe kids just express a preference for their mums?

                • McFlock …
                  23 November 2018 at 3:58 pm

                  An implication that the law was put forward by a white male attempting to gain privilege over women.

                  Nope.
                  Just an implication that the party as whole seeks to preserve the socioeconomic dominance white ment have over the rest of society. The fact that a few already-privileged women are amply rewarded by supporting that party does not lessen the disproportionate harm their policies would do to non-white and non-male people.

                  • DJ Ward …
                    23 November 2018 at 4:25 pm

                    That was a bit deluded.

                    Do you have any proof of that.

                    How were they targeting brown women specifically.

                    • McFlock …
                      23 November 2018 at 4:32 pm

                      They weren’t. They were targetting white men, and the rich ones at that. Everyone else is collateral damage.

                      Flat taxes, gst, privatisation, all that shit is great for capitalists (mostly white men), shit for everyone else. And the farther you’re away from being a business leader, the worse their policies are for you. So if you’re in a population that’s disproportionately unemployed, imprisoned, ill, and under-educated, ACT policies will fuck you over.

                    • DJ Ward …
                      23 November 2018 at 4:54 pm

                      I agree with you capitalist argument in regard to ACT and how it would effect the poor, but only due to its beliefs towards assisting the poor.
                      There position is that the healthier business is, then society benifits as well. So the result may be an effect on the poor but that does not meen intent to hurt the poor. In fact a crap economy is terrible for the poor, a great economy gives opportunity to the poor.

                      As pointed out yesterday the biggest poor demographic is white people.

                      If a buisinessman does well doesn’t his wife and daughters?
                      50% + of his assets + child support + alimony is hers.

                      When he pays tax, since men are net tax payers and women are not, women do better when men do better, don’t they?

                      Or is making the world terrible for men a solution for any issues women have.

                    • McFlock …
                      23 November 2018 at 5:02 pm

                      Well, whether they believe their rhetoric is one thing. But their policies hurt people. Badly.

                      And if you want to go by numbers or rates, the biggest group of rich people is white men.

                      You seem to be under the impression that helping less powerful and poor people means making the world terrible for white men. It actually involves “levelling up”, not “levelling down”. All that gets taken away from white men is our advantage over everyone else. If that makes our world terrible, so be it.

                    • DJ Ward …
                      23 November 2018 at 6:05 pm

                      Race isn’t a concept I consider in my own life. It’s forced on me by others who segregate people by race.

                      I have experienced no advantage or disadvantage for being the race I was born with. My parents were poor so I was raised poor and due to a severe illness I’ve hardly worked in the last 3 years, I get good money when I do work but overall my family only manages due to a free house.

                      I do however due to events to myself and others, view the world based on gender, as I’m sure your aware. What’s occured to me due to my gender was inhumane.

                      I see anti male bigotry everywhere.

                    • Cinny …
                      23 November 2018 at 6:21 pm

                      djward have you considered that whatever it was that happened to you/others was the result of the actions of particular people, not the actions of every female.

                      Women have been living/dealing with male bias for tens of thousands of years.

                      Better to find resolve and build a bridge, than carry around the weight of bitterness ones whole life. Even more so if one has children.

                    • McFlock …
                      23 November 2018 at 6:23 pm

                      Race vs ethnicity. Very different terms.

                      But whether you consider it or not, large numbers of social and economic indicators have a significant ethnic bias. And like the consistent gender biases in society, they almost always go in one direction.

                      I guess your “free house” comes with your partner’s job? Some ethnicities are more likely to have zero non(/precarious)-earners in a household, rather than just one. There are countless things like that. Individuals might or might not be bigots, but the structures of society sure are. You might not consider it, but it sure as hell considers you.

                      As for anti-male bigotry, get back to me when the wage gap has closed and women outnumber men in parliament, corporate boardrooms, and the judiciary.

                    • DJ Ward …
                      23 November 2018 at 7:17 pm

                      Strait to the feminist playbook.

                      So women must get everything before men can be considered for anything no matter how obscene that bias may be.

                      How about you get back to me when the number of women homeless is the same as men.
                      Or die in the workplace at the same rate.
                      Die at the same average age.
                      Can be drafted.
                      Can be tried for rape.
                      Pay the same in child support.
                      Suicide at the same rate.
                      Are equal to males in number at tertiary education.
                      Men have contraception.
                      Arrest for DV is arbitrary for women.
                      Get custody at the same %.
                      Get the same amount of social services funding.
                      Have a minister for men.
                      Same sentences for the same crime.
                      Don’t get exemptions for murdering partners.
                      Get issued with police safety orders.
                      Murdered at the same rate.
                      Have screening programmes.
                      Same mental health post release services.
                      Don’t have a legal exemption for perjury.
                      Know their kids are their children.

                      I can go on, and on, but I think your list of horrors women face is meaningless in comparison.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      23 November 2018 at 7:36 pm

                      Spectacular rant there. Particularly that you’re upset that women have a better handle on just who are their kids. 😂

                      That needs legislating against. ACT might have a policy…

                    • McFlock …
                      23 November 2018 at 8:05 pm

                      Men can’t be convicted of rape, either. They are convicted of “sexual violation”, of which rape is a subcategory with the same maximum sentence as every other “sexual violation” committed by a man or a woman.

                      I also wasn’t aware that NZ had the draft.

                      Police safety orders aren’t arbitrarily applied to anyone.

                      Workplace mortality rates by gender are a reflection of employment by gender.

                      Child support payments reflect means – men pay more because they earn more.

                      Which section of the Crimes act 1961 lets women away with murder?

                      Screening programmes are implemented based on cost effectiveness and whether early detection will significantly alter the prognosis. Women don’t get preferential treatment.

                      And so on.

                      Yes, there are strucutral issues for why men hit women harder than women hit men – shouldn’t we work on that rather than choosing to not arrest men for doing it?

                    • DJ Ward …
                      23 November 2018 at 8:09 pm

                      Morrissey I don’t know why you would support putting false details in a legal document, or dishonestly using a document for Personel financial gain, a crime, or that a child is used to commit a crime for money.

                      All that is required is compulsory paternity testing at about $60 a child (I’ve researched the figure). No woman needs to be prosecuted.

                      But 100% of fathers no longer need to fear the child is not theirs. Nobody will have to live with finding out there father is not their father. Male jealousy behavours will reduce, as the fear resulting from female infidelity reduces.

                      The Crown will no longer collect child support as a party to criminal offending.

                      Notice the last line Morrisey. Jacinda is the Crown and she knows the offending is happening and has the ability to stop it.

                    • Descendant Of Sssmith …
                      24 November 2018 at 6:51 pm

                      “But 100% of fathers no longer need to fear the child is not theirs. Nobody will have to live with finding out there father is not their father. Male jealousy behavours will reduce, as the fear resulting from female infidelity reduces.”

                      The historical reasons, going back thousands of years, for a child born in a marriage being deemed of that marriage was to stop children being abandoned. Both men and women stray and society has known that – it ain’t changing any time soon.

                      If you think definitely knowing, rather than suspecting or not knowing at all will reduce male jealousy behaviours you most likely are severely mistaken.

                      Even on an anecdotal basis I’ve got family members upset cause DNA proves we’re not genetically part of the family we thought we were from a grandfather born in the early 1900’s – and it’s mainly the males upset cause they been carrying the family name on since then. We’ve now found seven adopted out family members of whom the women are grateful to know who their family really is the two males are struggling.

                      Many men can’t handle this sort of identity stuff – the number for instance who leave their partners when the kid has a disability – cause you know it can’t possibly be their sperm that caused that – I’m pretty sure they already know it is without DNA testing proving it – all that sort of stuff.

                      That’s the way lots of men are – it may be genetic, it may be environmental, it most likely is a combination of both.

                      What I do notice is that there’s lots of angry older men out there who are being complete dicks – my own family members included – about their ex-spouses and children. My casual observation is that they need to stop being angry.

    • gsays 11.3
      23 November 2018 at 10:56 am

      Heh, it’s funny the TPU, all concerned that koha might influence Maori.
      Where is their concern for lobbyists, whose direct intention is to influence politicians with meals, entertainment etc.
      The hypocrisy and selective bias is astounding, yet it gets reported like we are supposed to take them seriously.

      • Draco T Bastard 11.3.1
        23 November 2018 at 2:02 pm

        +111

        The TPU seems to be a distraction device used to distract from the BS put out by right-wing political parties.

      • Gabby 11.3.2
        23 November 2018 at 3:03 pm

        What’ve Jordy and co had to say about SirPonyboy’s charitable donations to the natz? They ok with tax breaks for charities?

  12. marty mars 12
    23 November 2018 at 9:20 am

    Amazing this still goes on. The arrogance of some people is the cause of their downfall. I find it hard to have sympathy because obviously god’s will was done and he’s up in heaven for eternity now so he’s pretty sweet, isn’t he?

    “A swashbuckling American preacher outlined his bizarre plan to convert the world’s most isolated tribe to Christianity in a series of handwritten notes made public by his family.

    John Allen Chau, 26, was killed in a hail of arrows and buried in the sand shortly after setting foot on India’s North Sentinel Island, which is part of the Andaman and Nicobar archipelago in the Bay of Bengal.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12164940

    • greywarshark 12.1
      23 November 2018 at 1:53 pm

      As you say arrogant and seeking vainglory! And i believe it was against the law set up by India trying to be protectionist, for unatuthorised people to go there, for amongst other reasons, preventing disease. We know from reading our history that strangers carry germs so foreign to the long-time dwellers that they have no antibodies to fight them. This man broke the law because he had been brainwashed that his evangelical religion had better laws, and he was aspirational to climb the ladder for the number of souls saved.

      I had a relation who was a good man and religious in a ‘practical’ way. He was employed by the local missionary society to be part of their boat sailing round the Islands being helpful, bringing medicine, and spreading Christianity. A university paper about it said that people in some areas looked at them as the bringers of death, which followed their visits. It took a long time for the Society to admit that it was them bringing medicines etc that killiedthe native people. (they had at first considered they were dying because they didn’t have the medical knowledge and greater sophistication of the westerners.) Meanwhile one whole riverbank of hamlets were just about wiped out at one stage.

  13. Molly 13
    23 November 2018 at 9:35 am

    Roy Morgan rang for a five minute survey. OK. I thought. Five minutes. Roy Morgan is OK.

    It took four minutes for the identification questions to complete.

    Then, “Now for the survey – Is New Zealand going in the right direction?”
    “In regards to?…”
    “It’s up to you. We just need a yes or no.”
    “That would make this a pointless question, if I got to choose. Are you talking about the current NZ government, the issue of homelessness, inequality, climate change?”
    “You decide. Then say whether it is going in the right direction.”
    After a series of similar exchanges, was told just to give a general yes or no.
    “No, I’m not going to choose. Write down that I don’t agree with the question. Next question”
    “!!…” (and then amazingly, the next question).
    “How do you feel about China? Favourable or unfavourable?”
    “China? The government, the people, the country itself, or those who have immigrated here?”
    “Doesn’t matter. Favourable or unfavourable?”

    I did have some sympathy for the person on the end of the phone. But is this the quality of polling questions provide the results that sway political marketing decisions?

    The survey concluded, with my suggestion that I am not a good candidate for participation. Apparently, simple binary answers are needed to gauge political climate in NZ – more apparently, I am ill equipped to provide them.

    • cleangreen 13.1
      23 November 2018 at 7:09 pm

      Thanks for sharing that molly,

      Roy Morgan is a bit shifty with those questions as they form a sort of bias, and must have been constructed by a psychologist no doubt.

  14. mac1 14
    23 November 2018 at 9:45 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/108807191/Ashburtons-500-job-vacancies-will-cost-local-economy-16m-this-year?cid=edm:stuff:dailyheadlines&bid=848657861

    It seems that with 1.9% unemployment in Ashburton, there are 500 job vacancies there. The Clutha mayor says there are 800 vacancies in his district.

    Many commentators below this article seem to have missed the obvious. That wages and removal costs are main drivers in this situation.

    In 1840 Stewart Duncan Parnell won the right to an eight hour working day with decent wages because the labour market was in favour of the worker.

    What’s different now? Decent living wages, conditions and housing are all influenced by ‘market conditions’. Why is that not applying here?

    In my area there would be thousands of vacancies. But they are filled by RSE workers. 2000 labourers are needed for proposed vineyard expansions.

    The owners of the vineyards however do not step up with wages commensurate with the shortfall. They do not step up and provide all the accommodation needed. Some 600 are set to be built by contractors.

    Instead even greater pressure is placed upon a rental market where typically 60 people turn up for a single rental vacancy.

    • millsy 14.1
      23 November 2018 at 10:24 am

      Labour shortage = picky employers. I don’t think a shoplifting conviction or having a few cones with mates on a Saturday night should mean enternal penance through lifetime unemployment. No matter what the neo-Calvinists who have taken control of the country say.

    • greywarshark 14.2
      23 November 2018 at 2:05 pm

      mac1 14
      Many commentators below this article seem to have missed the obvious. That wages and removal costs are main drivers in this situation.

      I thought that the opinions seemed to agree that low wages and shitty jobs together are putting off applicants. People went to Western Austyralia to drive trucks in the heat and dust in the mines there. Not good working conditions but the pay was high. The dairy farmers at the top are saving on wages and putting the unspent money tinto leveraging the buying of new farms. Repeat the process.
      We know what that has led to.

  15. Anne 15
    23 November 2018 at 9:56 am

    What a miserable a******e of a hack:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12164831

    OK, its early days to be sure and JLR has done some grubby stuff, but he does seem to be trying to turn his life around and I hope he succeeds. Also note the sarcastic response re-David Clark’s welcoming words to him.

    • Cinny 15.1
      23 November 2018 at 10:25 am

      Bullying comments from a nasty bitter soper. And we wonder why NZ has record suicide rates and mental health issues. Sheez soper go hard out vilifying jlr and worries about nationals role in his whole situation and a certain southland mp.

      Personally I’ve never thought much about jlr, but for goodness sakes, he was there to add his support and thank the staff who cared for him. Bloody courageous of him considering the media and national party presence that day.

      David Clark was a star for his welcoming genuine words yesterday.

    • Muttonbird 15.2
      23 November 2018 at 10:42 am

      Haha. National outplayed again. That is what is making Barry so grumpy.

      I heard the other day the holier than thou Fran O and the miserly Larry Williams unhappily chuckling that JA had dodged a bullet with the rise of the NZ dollar and the rapid decline in oil prices.

      Hello, the same people were cock-a-hoop that pump prices were to reach $3L in the near term and apparently it was all the fault of the PM.

      You can’t have it both ways, arseholes. Either Ardern is in control of petrol prices, or she isn’t!

    • marty mars 15.3
      23 November 2018 at 3:28 pm

      Ross is no hero though imo – he’s fronting up hopefully to the truth of himself and that is good. A hell of a lot of healing from many people still needed I’d say.

  16. Professor Longhair 16
    23 November 2018 at 11:00 am

    Two children’s books I have never read, and never intend to

    She Persisted by Chelsea Clinton

    She Persisted Around the World by Chelsea Clinton

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46293506

  17. joe90 17
    23 November 2018 at 1:39 pm

    Commodore Bonespurs reckons steamers are the future.

    Trump: “Steam is very reliable. Electromagnetic – unfortunately you have to be Albert Einstein to really work it properly…”Navy Officer: “Yes sir. You sort of have to be Albert Einstein to run the nuclear power plant that we have here as well, but we’re doing that very well.” pic.twitter.com/uJkNgxzF2B— Mick Krever (@mickbk) November 22, 2018

    • WeTheBleeple 17.1
      23 November 2018 at 1:58 pm

      Haha. One of the comments observes he is holding the phone to his ear while on speaker phone.

      • DJ Ward 17.1.1
        23 November 2018 at 6:57 pm

        That’s because the media recording this had a feed to the line. It seems like speaker phone but how can you tell by a video. Think about it. I just happened to watch that particular event live by the way, when channel surfing.

        The presidents phones are solid state to prevent espionage of someone picking up the signal from cordless phones.

        Haha you, little bit TDS by the way.

    • DJ Ward 17.2
      23 November 2018 at 2:03 pm

      It was an on the fly comment. Not like it’s was briefed or on script. The reality is the carrier was held up for a long time because the scientists couldn’t get the electromagnetic catapult to work. There was even discussion to abandon the technology, retrofitting to steam which is reliable. Hence Trumps comment.

      It is however a funny conversation.

    • Draco T Bastard 17.3
      23 November 2018 at 2:42 pm

      There does seem to be a lot of problems with all of the electromagnetic shit on the Ford class carriers.

      I question why they even thought of using EMALs. Seems to be a massive increase in inefficiency in the power train:

      1. Nuke produced steam converted to electricity – this is a large power loss.
      2. Electricity is then used to spin up lots of large, heavy fly-wheels – a smaller power loss.
      3. Those flywheels then power generators to turn that kinetic energy back into electricity – this is another major power loss.

      It’s a highly complex system that may have a few advantages but, IMO, those same advantages could have been provided with a steam system.

      And that’s not the only problem that the Ford class has.

      • DJ Ward 17.3.1
        23 November 2018 at 4:11 pm

        Not sure on the no 1 comment. Heat transfer is very efficient and steam turbines are very efficient as well.

        The driving the flywheel will be around 95% efficient and generators can get to 99% efficient. Not sure about what happens when you try and dump the energy so quickly but based on motor performance curves, guessing efficiency drops.

        The better option presently but not available when they designed it would be Ali ion batteries as they can dump all the stored power in less than a second.

        The advantage over steam is you can design to be as powerful as you like with electromagnets. Steam is limited by temperature and pressure, due to materials, and the reality of the speed the gases can move.

        I believe they also had a catapult explosion killing a crewmen in the past with a steam catapult.

        • Draco T Bastard 17.3.1.1
          23 November 2018 at 5:16 pm

          There’s always a loss when one type of energy is converted to another.

          Not sure on the no 1 comment. Heat transfer is very efficient and steam turbines are very efficient as well.

          Heat to electrical seems to run around 60%. This may be different for nuclear heat but I wouldn’t bet my life on that.

          Not sure about what happens when you try and dump the energy so quickly but based on motor performance curves, guessing efficiency drops.

          Fairly efficient conversion but the loss from Earth’s rotation is going to hurt.

          The advantage over steam is you can design to be as powerful as you like with electromagnets.

          You can do that with steam. Just increase the number of pistons being pushed.

          Steam is limited by temperature and pressure, due to materials, and the reality of the speed the gases can move.

          They have a couple of nuclear reactors so temperature shouldn’t be an issue. Delivering that to the deck probably is though. The pipes would need higher levels of maintenance than electrical cables.

          I believe they also had a catapult explosion killing a crewmen in the past with a steam catapult.

          The USS Ford had an electrical explosion but no one was hurt.

          • DJ Ward 17.3.1.1.1
            23 November 2018 at 6:49 pm

            Heat to electrical is thermocouples at about 2%
            Or Stirling engines at 40% max but that’s heat to motion to electricity.

            Steam turbines limit at a % figure as well, but they are not heat engines, but work by dropping pressure, expanding the gas. The difference with a steam turbine is they act like a multi stage Stirling but on pressure not temperature. So stage one gets a % of that available energy, stage 2 gets a % of the leftover etc. the blade size and angle of attack changes down the length of the turbine.
            The pressure vs temperature difference is a technicality as obviously temperature loss is related to the work done. Strictly speaking thermocouples and Stirling engines are the only direct heat to electricity, or heat to motion systems.

            Anyway thanks for correcting me on the % efficiency of steam turbines. As you have probably noticed my memory has flaws. I worked on designing and making prototype sterling engines many years ago.

      • McFlock 17.3.2
        23 November 2018 at 4:27 pm

        Space and mechanical complexity (maintenance and reliability when the system matures) are also major considerations.

  18. Draco T Bastard 18
    23 November 2018 at 2:06 pm

    It looks like the USians are starting to reform their broken system:

    Utah is one of the reddest states in the country, but not too red to embrace the kind of redistricting reform pushed by progressive voting-rights advocates around the country. After two weeks of nail-biting vote-counting, Utah joined three other states in curbing gerrymandering by approving independent redistricting commissions through ballot initiatives in the November 6 midterm elections.

    As the final ballots were tallied this week, the measure eked out a victory by less than 1 percent of the vote. As a result, Utah becomes the latest state to hand over drawing of its political maps to an independent commission in response to heavily gerrymandered districts warping the democratic process across the country. On Election Day, voters in Michigan, Colorado, and Missouri also approved ballot measures to end gerrymandering.

    Hopefully, the ‘independent commissions’ are truly independent with good enough rules regarding how to draw a district to prevent gerrymandering.

    • Dennis Frank 18.1
      23 November 2018 at 2:58 pm

      Testimony to the innate sense of fairness amongst non-aligned voters, I reckon. Small tentative steps towards democracy are better than none though, in respect of the Mother Jones writer concluding with this caveat:

      “But even with a redistricting commission, Utah’s Republican majority is unlikely to lose too much clout, since the initiative doesn’t take politics out of redistricting to the same extent as similar measures in other states. The commission’s seven members will be chosen by the governor and leaders in the state legislature, giving incumbent Republicans more appointees in 2021 than Democrats. Moreover, a recommended map need not be approved by the entire commission, and the legislature is not bound to accept the map the commission chooses. The legislature can draw its own map instead, as long as it releases a written explanation for why it chose to reject the commission’s recommended map.”

  19. ScottGN 19
    23 November 2018 at 2:58 pm

    The state of Victoria goes to the polls tomorrow and if the latest voter intentions survey from The Age is anything to go by Daniel Andrews and Labor will be handily returned to office.
    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/andrews-tipped-for-hefty-win-as-labor-surges-on-election-eve-20181122-p50hqe.html

  20. Puckish Rogue 20
    23 November 2018 at 3:15 pm

    Oh hell yeah! Got the call and it is on!

    • veutoviper 20.1
      23 November 2018 at 4:14 pm

      Congratulations! Still don’t know exactly what! LOL.

      They have taken their time …

      • Puckish Rogue 20.1.1
        23 November 2018 at 4:57 pm

        I know, I mean its not like government is known for its efficiency at the best of times but the applications closed on Sep 22nd, mind you training (and therefore my starting time) isn’t until the middle of January

        Heres another clue:

        • Cinny 20.1.1.1
          23 November 2018 at 5:55 pm

          Woot woot! Congrats PR.

          Are you going to be working at the ‘big house’?

        • Draco T Bastard 20.1.1.2
          23 November 2018 at 8:42 pm

          I know, I mean its not like government is known for its efficiency at the best of times

          Spreading the BS again I see.

          Try actual research rather than belief:

          Yet, the argument over the private sector being inherently more efficient than the public sector was never fully settled. This paper makes a strong case challenging the assumption of the primacy of the private sector. It suggests that, first, “no model of ownership (public, private or mixed) is intrinsically more efficient than the others”; and second, that “efficiency of service provision under all ownership models depends on factors like competition, regulation, autonomy and wider issues of institutional development”.
          Implementation of the ambitious and wide-ranging 2030 SDGs depends on effective public service and public services. Yet public services in most countries are confronted by crises of demoralisation, demotivation, disinvestment and the perhaps the unjustified tag of ‘inefficiency’ too. If successful delivery of the SDGs is to be achieved, public service needs not only stout arguments in its defence from development practitioners and agencies, but also the genuine empowerment of ‘New Public Passion’ backed by political will behind it, so as to make public service once more proud of being the rightful custodian of the public good.

          Most of the literature identified in this review is focused on the health sector. In this sector there is no conclusive evidence that either public or private provision is more efficient. This finding is replicated across high-, middle- and low-income countries. However, the literature does highlight a difference between private for-profit and private non-profit providers. While private non-profit providers have similar levels of efficiency to public hospitals, many studies find that private for-profit hospitals have lower levels of efficiency than the other two models. Some literature suggests that perverse incentives to over-treat in private for-profit hospitals drives down efficiency.

          My bold.

          Simple fact of the matter is that organisations run by humans are going to just as efficient. The problem comes from profit which increases inefficiency which we really shouldn’t surprised by. Profit is, after all, a dead-weight loss.

          And both Labour and National should have read the research on city amalgamation.

  21. marty mars 21
    23 November 2018 at 3:24 pm

    The vermilion permanent skid-marker speaketh – ugly man.

    “Asked what he was most thankful for on this Thanksgiving Day – a question that for commanders in chief usually prompts praise of service members in harm’s way – Trump delivered a singularly Trumpian answer.”

    ” “I made a tremendous difference in our country,” he said, citing himself ”

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/108823930/rhetorical-bedlam-erupts-as-donald-trump-speaks-to-the-world-from-maralago

  22. Anne 22
    23 November 2018 at 4:06 pm

    Jordan Williams has got to be the dork of the decade. What in god’s name is the media doing even reporting his ignorant crap:

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/politicians-and-iwi-leaders-lambast-taxpayers-union-ignorant-koha-criticism

    • McFlock 22.1
      23 November 2018 at 4:09 pm

      Hasn’t had enough column inches to please his funders, maybe. Spout something racist, get easy advertising.

  23. NZJester 23
    23 November 2018 at 5:48 pm

    Is Dirty Politics finally catching up with a certain Slippery Cetacean?

    Hacked emails allowed in Cameron Slater cash for comment defamation case – judge
    23 Nov, 2018 4:13pm
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12165249

  24. greywarshark 24
    23 November 2018 at 6:21 pm

    Heard of Daria the disaffected comic strip young woman. Here is a link about what she represents to the western world and particularly USA, And the speaker came up with a defining term ‘ ironic detachment’. It seems its cool to see through everything to the strings attached by corporates, society; everything is nothing in the end it seems.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZswmxq-K1M

    http://farragomagazine.com/2018/02/15/nihilism-alienation-and-the-birth-of-trash-journalism-mtvs-daria/
    For starters, the show is unique for the nihilism that, very much like its feminism, is delivered in frequent and delightful jabs. The show’s setting is possibly the root of Daria’s nihilism: a humdrum, middle-class suburban town called Lawndale.

    This fictional town is outwardly nothing more than a mildly pea-brained, yet harmless colony of capitalism-worshipping residents, a moral and intellectual wasteland. It’s the kind of place where high schools hold elaborate ceremonies for graduated football players in mockery of their existence as fundamentally educational entities. Where dollar-thirsty magazine writers write articles titled: ‘What TV’s Hottest Hunks Think of Your Blackheads’.

    Only an outsider with a moral compass like a brick wall (read: Daria), is able see Lawndale for the capitalistic rat race that it is. Throwing ethical values under the bus for the sake of material gain is a survival mechanism in Lawndale, a charade only Daria refuses to engage in.

    • NZJester 24.1
      23 November 2018 at 6:36 pm

      It is surprising how well that cartoon did considering that Daria started out as a minor character in the Bevis and Butthead cartoons.
      It ran for 5 seasons and had 3 TV movies and a video game.
      She was also in the Beavis and Butt-Head in Virtual Stupidity video game.

      • greywarshark 24.1.1
        23 November 2018 at 7:11 pm

        Must have caught the zeitgeist eh! And perhaps it is particularly well suited for now. The person who likes the crayon message in the Daily Review today might be the person who would find Daria a good mouthpiece.

  26. eco maori 26
    24 November 2018 at 6:53 am

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute

  27. eco maori 27
    24 November 2018 at 7:12 am

    You know these people crying about the sandflys being asked not to ware there Uniform in the Parade are CRYING what about the harmony diversity and inclusiveness
    She told Morning Report Pride is an opportunity to try and make the police change the way they deal with Māori.

    And she said statistics show Māori are more likely to be victims of police brutality.

    Institutional racism is one of the reasons some people are giving for why they would rather the police walk in plain clothes.

    The Auckland Pride board said the discussions with the community revealed that while there is goodwill toward police, “as an institution they do not currently meet the degree of safety and awareness of intersectionality required by our rainbow communities”.

    Ms Rākete said she would have been happy with the police walking in the parade if they weren’t in uniform.

    “It’s a compromise and I think it’s a really generous one which they should have taken.”

    The Pride parade is a huge PR exercise that the police desperately want to put its branding on, she said.

    “The question shouldn’t be who’s in the police, what does the police look like, is the police branding inclusive enough, do the police have a rainbow police car? It should be what do the police do?”

    She said: “If the police are so dedicated to diversity and inclusion and not being racist then beating up Māori people less shouldn’t be a particularly odious demand placed on them.”

  28. eco maori 28
    24 November 2018 at 8:19 am

    The system has changed Yea Right look at how this system is treating a Broke brown Maori man just totally shitting on mine and my immediate whano’s HUMAN RIGHTS in every way they can get away with but this is a mere test from God for Eco Maori I will win and I will get my Whano’s land back from who ever stole that land . You see the people who received the whenua were the ones in bed with the state all the people who challenged the state and stop the sale of East Coast Land Got there land ripped off them and my Tipuna were these people. The famous words of one was We dont want your money we wan’t to keep out whenua for our Mokopuna’s
    At the conclusion of the fighting in 1865 Grey and McLean promised that Ngati Porou land would be preserved for the tribe’s own use. In 1866 Mokena and Rapata, in consultation with McLean, prohibited the sale or lease of all northern Waiapu land. However, some East Coast land was offered to the government in reparation. When Biggs, now Crown agent, rejected it as insufficient, the offer was withdrawn. Biggs then defined an area stretching from Hicks Bay to Reporua to be confiscated, but when he tried to survey the block Mokena instructed him to leave. The government’s next move was to offer Mokena a large sum of money. The chief declined to accept, because he knew very well the money had ‘teeth’ – ‘Take your money away, the fight was mine, not the pakeha’s’. This action, an expression of rangatiratanga, safeguarded Ngati Porou land from confiscation.
    requires compromise.691 For example, the true extent of loss of lands can not be replaced or compensated for in twentieth century New Zealand, and iwi who engage in the negotiations process acknowledge this. However for the most part, Māori are also motivated to achieve settlements and many iwi have engaged, and continue to engage, in the process.
    This thesis has examined the factors, fundamentally political in nature, which contributed to the development of Crown policy in the crucial decade of 1988-1998. The process and the outcome is often recognised by Māori and Pākehā leaders, scholars and commentators as being world-leading.692 During this period of rapid policy development the Treaty settlements process transitioned from ad-hoc development of policies and arrangements into an entrenched system, yet one that.
    The Treaty does not, as is sometimes claimed, confer ‘special privileges’ on Mäori, nor does it take rights away from other New Zealanders. Rather, it affirms particular rights and responsibilities for Mäori as Mäori to protect and preserve their lands, forests, waters and other treasures for future generations. In 2005, United Nations Special Rapporteur Rodolfo Stavenhagen commented that he had been asked several times during his visit to New Zealand whether he thought Mäori benefitted from ‘special privileges’. He responded that he “had not been presented with any evidence to that effect, but that, on the contrary, he had received plenty of evidence concerning the historical and institutional discrimination suffered by the Maori people”. 5
    The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (2007) explicitly refutes the notion that recognition of indigenous rights may somehow put other peoples’ rights at risk, and stipulates that indigenous rights are to be exercised in a manner that respects the human rights of other. Ka kite ano link below P.S Mokena got no land from the land courts and his descendants are suffering because of that fact

    https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1k15/kohere-mokena

  29. eco maori 29
    24 November 2018 at 8:44 am

    Here is a link to Eco Maori’s claims. Pukana.

    http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-KohStor-t1-body-d3.html
    I once asked the late Bishop Herbert Williams whether he believed the Maori story that a large sum of money was page 60 offered to Mokena Kohere and he refused to accept it. He replied that it was improbable, and yet his own father, in East Coast Historical Records, states that a sum of £12,000 was offered to the Wairoa loyal chiefs and it was accepted. Hence large blocks of the best lands of the Ngati-Kahungunu were confiscated, or bought, according to one version, the greatest sufferers being the loyal chiefs like Pitiera Kopu. It was magnanimous on Pitiera’s part to consent to the confiscation of his lands to atone for the sins of his disloyal fellow tribesmen. The fact proves how correct my Maori informants were, although not one European ever mentioned the fact that a large sum of money was offered to Mokena Kohere which the chief declined to accept because he knew very well that, to use Maori phraseology, the money had “teeth”—“he niho to te moni.” If the Wairoa loyal chiefs had been offered a large sum of money by the Government it is only natural to conclude that Mokena Kohere was also. Fortunately for the Ngati-Porou it was not accepted; otherwise they would have lost the best portion of their ancestral lands.

  30. eco maori 30
    24 November 2018 at 10:21 am

    Kia ora Newshub Nation I say the new laws to fast track the Kiwi build building new housing projects and give the Coalition Government is a logical move Lost Time is Lost Money.
    The local NZ councils have to many people with conflicts of interest I.E people doing things to line there hip pockets and there M8 hip pockets instead of serving in the best interest of people .
    People living in cars what a crying shame but the property market stock market and business are making huge profits thanks shonky .
    Once the site is developed correctly houses go up quite quickly I have seen this with my own eyes what I would like to see is planning to use the Sun to keep all house warm just by planning the lay out of the housing development to have that as a priority just a bit of thought and people will save thousands and so will our environment.
    Mike Joy I agree with your statements one should not be auditing themselves councils ect I seen a report that only one council in the country can give credible water use stats what a sham . Water is the most preciousness thing we have and your views on farming 20 % reduction or cap and growing Organically . Yes I definitely don’t want industrial farms they just use any means to do what ever they want weather the environment blows up and people die profits are KING to them .
    The Lake Alis issues is a real state Crime and this shows how they protected there own inhumane criminals they protect all there own.
    Ka kite ano About time the police have decide to prosecute that Psychiatrist how many years did that take 20

  31. eco maori 31
    24 November 2018 at 12:27 pm

    Scientist unveils blueprint to save bees and enrich farmers buy working with Papatuanuku I say. Huge gains in productivity by using this method of farming
    Its cool to see Europe is taking the intelligent approach to the catastrophic decline to OUR bee and birds

    She expects resistance from agrichemical companies. “I think Monsanto won’t like this because they want to sell their pesticides and this approach reduces pests naturally,” she says.

    Christmann is used to adversity. When she first suggested a focus on pollinators at the world agricultural conference in 2010, the delegates laughed at her. For many years, she struggled to gain funds and for two years she had to use her savings to finance her work on pollinator programmes.
    The Guardian view on pesticides: give bees a chance
    Read more

    Now she has the backing of the German government and a voice on the world stage, the only obstacle is time. “This cannot wait. The bees, flies and butterflies need urgent action. I’m 59 now and I want to to get them globally protected before I retire so I have to hurry,” she says.

    The decline of pollinators will be highlighted in a new global report on genetic resources for food that will be released next year. Based on reports from governments across the world, the draft will show that even agriculture ministries – who have long resisted conservation action – are aware of the need for change.

    “Countries are saying that we are using too many pesticides and the number of birds and bees is going down. We need to do something about it or our agricultural systems won’t work,” said Irene Hoffmann, who is leading the study for the Food and Agriculture Organisation. “It’s frustrating and sometimes it’s frightening. The situation is dire, but there are ways to solve it.” Link below ka kite ano

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/23/scientist-unveils-blueprint-to-save-bees-and-enrich-farmers

  32. eco maori 32
    24 November 2018 at 1:05 pm

    Its is the word’s could that pisses me off could would should be alarmed it is not a proven fact to slow Global Warming . These people are just trying to slow down how fast we stop using carbon paid for by the Oil barons propagandizing money .We do no what works and what is good for the Earth’s Creations we suck the evidence out of the Earth and blow it into the atmosphere Oil Coal it’s was this carbon taken out of the air over billions of years by plants and stowed in Mother Earth man is reversing this natural cycle at the speed of light compared to the time it took Mother Earth to capture it.
    Spend a extra 2 billion a year planting green things that capture carbon trees [ect]
    Every one need to plant more tree’s not sit and wait and hope the neo liberals capitalist oil baron just want you to beleve that there is a way that money can save us but once we go past a tipping point there is not returning .
    Solar geoengineering could be ‘remarkably inexpensive’ – report
    Spreading particles in stratosphere to fight climate change may cost $2bn a year
    The costs of compensating for droughts, floods and food shortages that geoengineering might cause would be much larger than the engineering costs, said Phil Williamson at the University of East Anglia. “International agreement to go ahead would seem near-impossible. Rapid reductions in emissions remain the best way to avoid climate catastrophe.”

    Blocking sunlight does not address other problems caused by global warming, such as the acidification of the oceans. However, Prof Peter Cox at the University of Exeter said: “The fact that researchers at one of the world’s top universities are costing the deployment of such a radical [geoengineering] scheme shows how urgent the climate change problem has

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/23/solar-geoengineering-could-be-remarkably-inexpensive-report

  33. eco maori 33
    24 November 2018 at 1:47 pm

    Here is another good reason for gender Equality will raise food production in 3 world nations quite a logical conclusion Mana Wahine video below Ka kite ano.

  34. eco maori 34
    24 November 2018 at 2:54 pm

    trump is still flogging Our Future for his own rule Climate Change Denier fool
    A new US government report delivers a dire warning about climate change and its devastating impacts, saying the economy could lose hundreds of billions of dollars — or, in the worst-case scenario, more than 10% of its GDP — by the end of the century.
    The federally mandated study was supposed to come out in December but was released by the Trump administration on Friday, at a time when many Americans are on a long holiday weekend, distracted by family and shopping.
    David Easterling, director of the Technical Support Unit at the NOAA National Centers for Environmental Information, emphasized that there was “no external interference in the report’s development.” He added that the climate change the Earth is experiencing is unlike any other.

    “The global average temperature is much higher and is rising more rapidly than anything modern civilization has experienced, and this warming trend can only be explained by human activities,” Easterling said. Ka kite ano link and video below.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/23/health/climate-change-report-bn/index.html

  35. eco maori 35
    24 November 2018 at 6:43 pm

    Kia ora Newshub We know what scientist do and we know what trump does.
    Its ka pai that OUR World Sports Stars are supporting the RainBow community its idiots who beat people for no reason at all they are just fools with small minds and small—–.
    I missed seeing Dolphins when I was fishing they would have a straight line as far as the eyes could see. I new they are intelligent creatures ka pai.
    Its cool that Jacinda has apologized to Peter for the states abuse he suffered while he was in a state care/abuse.
    That NASA Mars lander is a awesome space craft how it survives the Landing Mars had a good atmosphere billions of years ago some Phenomenon destroyed it.
    Kate we have just watched the first movie The Fantastic Beast .
    Ka kite ano