Sacking ‘only’ 400 teachers ‘good news’ say Nats

Written By: - Date published: 7:41 am, May 30th, 2012 - 87 comments
Categories: budget2012, education - Tags:

National has copped a hell of a backlash for increasing class sizes. The internal polls are said to be diabolical. There are a million parents of school-age kids out there, and they’re pissed off.

Particularly when, out of what appears to be sheer incompetence, the Nats cancelled the funding for intermediate technology teachers altogether. Now, they’ve flipp-flopped and dipped into the emergency money (5 days after the Budget was unveiled! – it hasn’t even passed yet and they’re having to over-ride it).

National say that most schools will lose 1 teacher and the 10% that would lose more will be capped at 2.

They won’t say how many fewer teachers that means but with over 2,000 schools that means more than 400, and probably more like the 1,000 teaching positions they thought they were scrapping before they discovered they had accidentally sacked 300 intermediate technology teachers too.

Hekia Parata – who has pulled a Melissa Lee by ruining her career aspirations including her shot at leadership with her first big test – is so out of touch that she says this is “good news“.

The rest of us are just thinking that Mrs ‘I had 42 kids in my class and it didn’t hurt me’ is the best ad for smaller class sizes out there.

87 comments on “Sacking ‘only’ 400 teachers ‘good news’ say Nats ”

  1. Only someone living in a Crosby Textor constructed illusion would believe that sacking 400 teachers was “good news”.

    • aerobubble 1.1

      No, the worry is that the noise was the goal of the policy. That creepy government wins because Key backed down and we will only lose one or two teachers. Phew. Imagine it happened backwards. That Key cut one or two teachers, and then raised the number cut, the anger would have thrown the government out. The PR requires a crisis theme, because Key is a crisis leader. The results are to the harm of the economy and NZ, time and again.

      • Tom Gould 1.1.1

        You’re on to it. The Tory chooks and shock-jocks are lauding ‘the PM’ for ‘stepping in’ to fix it. Never mind he chairs cabinet and his finger prints are all over it. Looks like the amnesia defence wins out again?

      • You’ve got to wonder exactly how much they’re drinking that they think damaging the party brand this badly for the PM’s brand would somehow be a win for them. Maybe they just underestimated the numbers, or maybe it genuinely was incompetence- but there’s no defending this level of stupidity no matter how you slice it.

  2. ghostwhowalksnz 2

    Trish Parata is now hiding from the media, and leaving it up to ‘master of detail’ Key to walk through the somersault.

    I think the ‘modelling’ they talked about when they came up with the numbers, involved a dartboard

  3. The endless repetition of the idea that 90% of schools will gain or lose less than one teacher equivalent is the best defence National have, and it’s pretty weak. It’s easy enough to work out that quite a number of teaching jobs will be lost, it could be 400, it could be 1,000, but no one can be sure because National is not saying.
    I’d like to see Hekia Parata asked what percentage of schools will gain part of a FTTE. Then I’d like to see her asked how many schools will lose part of a FTTE. And finally, I’d like to see her asked how many teaching positions will become redundant.
    The follow-up question to a reply from Parata saying “I don’t have the figures to hand” could be devastating.
    I’ve also written about it here (link to my blog)

    • DH 3.1

      Parata’s claim of saving $43million probably probably gives the most illuminating guide, using her average teachers salary of $71,000 that’s about 605 FTE teachers the Nats expected to get rid of….

      • Akldnut 3.1.1

        Good point DH, 400 teachers averaging $71,000 would be a saving of $28.4 mil. Theres another 42.6 million being hidden in their bullshit.

    • ianmac 3.2

      I have no doubt that in answer to which schools would gain teachers, she would include those schools which have growing rolls and therefore have a natural increase of teachers as well. There you are. Gained teachers thanks to Clever britches Parata.

      • North 3.2.1

        Which would be patently dishonest……..which is what they’re readily prepared to be to advance the long planned kaupapa to destroy the Welfare State.

        Look at that “Heki Pirau” Parata. What a glossy nothing person bullshitter she is ! Although I have to say she’s probably not fully up with the actual kaupapa…….the sick, potatao ego is being stroked hard and that’s enough for her cheap married to the Old Knight (Lady Parata) vanity. 1,400 of NZ taxpayer dollar for her to be a flash bitch in a limo in Sydney. Disgraceful ! When $300 of several taxis would have done the same job……..she’s being your part Maori Madonna.

        Reality is Key was imported into NZ circa 2000 (by Boag, Roundtable and others) for the purpose of “selling” the kaupapa of destroying the Welfare State without ever revealing the kaupapa. Mr Smile and Wave was shoulder-tapped to front the kaupapa. Because they knew that the cheap wannabe middle could be persuaded that they too could be worth $50 million without ever doing a tap of real productive work. The fraudulent mind-set I hear you say ?

        Do you think Key would have come back without the promise of something particularly marvellous ? To start with, the promise of the seat of some idiot old National Party trusty……. I refer to that old National Party git in Te Atatu, Neeson. Poor prick. They crapped on him. “For The Good Of The Party”.

        Then, you do it well enough……..PM !

        It’s not a ridiculous proposition. Labour was bound to go in the end……..nearly did in 2005. National was always gonna be back sooner or later. Why not get really serious ? Stop pissing around being dumb Kiwis…….really pave the way for the 1% (of which Boag, Roundtable, Key and others are members of course).

        Everything they do seems planned……..even the back downs. They still serve their essential kaupapa. Make NZ a commercial playground for the 1 percenters.

        • Bob 3.2.1.1

          Aren’t David Shearer, David Cunliffe, Phil Goff and Helen Clark also in the “1%?
          Wow, they must only have big business at heart, those theiving bastards!!

          Stop with the rediculous tin-foil hat arguements and give some actual examples. In what way are they “destroying the Welfare State without ever revealing the kaupapa”? From every article/press release I have seen, they are purely tightening the rules and regulations so that Welfare once again becomes a hand up, not a hand out, just as Labour intended when they brought in the Unemployment Benefit in 1935. It was never intended as a lifetyle choice as some (and I must emphasise the ‘some’, examples http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6884359/Cracking-it-on-welfare-in-Huntly ) have now become accustomed too. How is that intention wrong?

          For what it’s worth, I agree that National have gone to far with the school funding cut-backs. It is one of the few things that I have not agreed with since National took office. I can see their reasoning behind it (quality of teachers is more of an influence to learning than class size http://www.asianscientist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/129_report_learning_from_the_best_main.pdf compare page 6 to page 13), but can’t see their logic around the way they have decided to approach the issue.

          • felix 3.2.1.1.1

            “I can see their reasoning behind it (quality of teachers is more of an influence to learning than class size…”

            Really? Then walk me through it.

            If quality of teachers is more of an influence than class size, then why does this policy only address class size?

            Furthermore, why does it only address it in the wrong direction?

            Nobody – and I do mean nobody – is making an argument that increasing class sizes is of any benefit whatsoever. Yet you think there’s “reasoning” behind it?

            Sorry Bob, I call bullshit on that.

            • Bob 3.2.1.1.1.1

              ““I can see their reasoning behind it (quality of teachers is more of an influence to learning than class size…” Really? Then walk me through it.”

              Sorry Felix, you missed my last comment “but can’t see their logic around the way they have decided to approach the issue”. There is no point in addressing class sizes if you are doing nothing to address the quality of teaching, and I don’t know of an easy, logical way to do so. The vast majority of teachers we have in this country are top notch on an international level, but the teachers that are constantly failing children (based on discussions with Principals and BOT members that I’ve had) are protected by the Teachers Union and almost impossible to get rid of. You could look at upskilling these teachers, but it is very difficult to break bad habits and change attitudes that have developed over time.

              Unfortunately, I don’t have the answers to the problem, and I don’t think any of our political parties do either.

              • Colonial Viper

                Answer is easy: more continuing professional development, professional assessment, and professional support.

                Of course that would mean giving more money to public school teachers and public schools, something that National is deadset against.

              • felix

                So what Bob?

                What I’m asking you to walk me through is how you get from ‘quality of teaching is more of an influence than class size’ to ‘increasing class sizes is a good idea’.

                I don’t think you can do it. And I don’t think Key can either.

          • RedLogix 3.2.1.1.2

            they are purely tightening the rules and regulations so that Welfare once again becomes a hand up, not a hand out

            Precisely what do you mean by this Bob?

            Do you think there are jobs available for everyone?

            And if there are not jobs for everyone then there is no ‘handout” for some people?

            And if they have no ‘handout’ then this will mean that they will sleep rough and scavenge in rubbish bins?

            And if they are really desperate Bob and this ‘incentivises’ them …. do you not imagine that they will not keep knocking on your own boss’s door offering to do your job for less than you are paid? Much less if they are really hungry.

            Is that how your logic works?

            • Bob 3.2.1.1.2.1

              “they are purely tightening the rules and regulations so that Welfare once again becomes a hand up, not a hand out. Precisely what do you mean by this Bob?”
              I mean that it should provide enough money to eat, provide shelter, bills (power, phone, internet) and a bit left over for Travel, Clothes and random expenses that crop up. It should not be enough to provide a lifestyle, otherwise where is the incentive to find work when you are already being provided for?

              “Do you think there are jobs available for everyone?”
              I don’t think there are jobs for everyone, but I do know there are people that aren’t willing to take on the jobs that ARE available http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10808678 if they didn’t have disposable income while on the unemployment benefit do you think this would still be the case?

              “And if there are not jobs for everyone then there is no ‘handout” for some people?”
              That is why it is there, for people who are still job seeking, read the reasons why Labour brought this in in the fist place! It was for JOBSEEKERS, as per the above link, it seems to be going wrong somewhere!

              “And if they have no ‘handout’ then this will mean that they will sleep rough and scavenge in rubbish bins?”
              Covered in my first answer above.

              “And if they are really desperate Bob and this ‘incentivises’ them …. do you not imagine that they will not keep knocking on your own boss’s door offering to do your job for less than you are paid? Much less if they are really hungry.”
              It may well be, and if I am not preforming in my job my boss may take them up on the offer. Then I might start my own business and become my own boss, then I get to decide who I employ. Novel idea that, it might provide more jobs as well……..don’t need to worry though because I am in sales and have a proven track record of results, is it worth the risk to my boss to hire someone new for my role where he would have to train them on the product set (cost), and no guarentee they will actually be able to sell anything? Then he has to hire someone new, and train them (double cost), does it start making sense now RedLogix?

              • Colonial Viper

                is it worth the risk to my boss to hire someone new for my role where he would have to train them on the product set (cost), and no guarentee they will actually be able to sell anything? Then he has to hire someone new, and train them (double cost), does it start making sense now RedLogix

                Diddums suddenly realising that being a private sector entrepreneur requires upfront capital investment, uncertainty and risk.

    • Julian Haworth 3.3

      Yes quite right, and John Armstrong in the Herald is spouting verbatim and uncritically National’s line that 90% of schools will gain or lose one teacher. Not good enough Mr. Armstrong.

      • North 3.3.1

        The John Armstrong of “John Key has gravitas…..” fame ? What a tosser !

  4. prism 4

    Great picture. The teachers are having a conference soon at which Parata will speak. It looks like Parata is going to be laying on the liquid entertainment, or dancing on the tables. Though I don’t think there will be much merriment but can only hope there will be some reasoned discussion whereby Parata reveals that NACTs do want a bright, innovative society with matching jobs.

    That would be a position that receives respect instead of the disdain from the wealthy for providing education services and opportunities for the poor who they through their pollies and businesses have deliberately impoverished.

  5. Tiger Mountain 5

    Education is so much more than crowd control. The new curriculum painstakingly developed during the Clark years was trashed by the Natz vandals with their “standards” bs.

    • Colonial Viper 5.1

      You are right; it’s not crowd control, it’s team management with a goal of getting each individual within the team to do better, which is a much more subtle and difficult concept.

      • ghostwhowalksnz 5.1.1

        Remember the sunday paper columnist who famously ‘only wanted’ her child to be able to sit on a mat.

        They want a nice docile crowd

  6. sophie 6

    Is somebody able to tell me what a “Teacher Equivalent” is. Are they using these words because it sounds less damaging than losing actual teachers from classrooms.

    • Carol 6.1

      Isn’t it “full time teacher equivalent”? ie sum of part-time teacher hours.

      • sophie 6.1.1

        Thanks Carol. Either way, it’s real people working in classrooms with children.

    • ianmac 6.2

      A school is allocated Full time Teacher Equivalent according to the size of the Roll. The Principal decides just where the numbers per teacher will fall. He may use one FTE for a Reading Recovery Teacher to specialise with 6 year old failing kids. This means a few more kids per teacher to compensate. He may decide to limit a Beginning Teacher to 24 kids. Compensate by giving more kids to other Teachers. The Principal is part of the FTE so if not teaching then his kids are put into other classes.
      So a bald 1:27.5 is not that in practice at all. Some might have 35 kids to compensate.

  7. Richard 7

    Parata was quoted in the Herald as saying:
    “What has become really clear in that is that the Year 7 and 8 have had a 10-year provision for technology, the provision of which was not fully modelled.”
    Sounds really clear to me Hekia? Is that another way of saying you screwed up?
    Key promoted Parata to the job in the hope that all the negative attention National had attracted over National Standards would dissappear with the demotion of the hapless Anne Tolley.
    Sorry Hekia, it will take more than a smile to sell out our education system and get away with it.

  8. ianmac 8

    Anyone notice the expression on Lockwood’s face, as a former Minister of Education, when Parata said in the House “This is Good News.”

  9. Red Rosa 9

    Nice to see a new Minister of Education with the same charm and intelligence of the last one. And always good to see consistency of policy….;)

  10. Dr Terry 10

    Key was obliged to intervene with the foolish Tolley, now he must do the same thing with the “charming and smiling” Parata! Good grief, what an awful time the education sector has been having for a lengthy period!

  11. Red Rosa 11

    Of course all this doesn’t affect the Cabinet much. When it comes to educating their own kids, they go for smaller class sizes at state-subsidized private religious schools. Aka ‘elite’, take your pick.

    To which of course they doubled the subsidies, just weeks after taking office.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10809374

  12. I’m only kicking you in the shins, not in the stomach! Hurray, good news everybody!

    • mac1 12.1

      First you kick your opponent in the stomach and wind him, doubling him over- then you ‘apologise’ and kick him in the shins. If the bully picks on the right victim, then the recipient will be grateful that it was only the shins this time. Being winded, the victim can’t object whereas if you kick him in the shins first then they might 1. object forcefully and 2. see you coming the second time.

      This government is about bullying behaviour- hurting, blaming, lying, selfish. Let’s see what happens when parents, teachers and the public in general become assertive.

  13. Andrew 13

    Retailers use this game all the time (Sale price put on after the price is hiked). Where do the figures “5 fold increase (http://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/211241/principals-heckle-parata) in teachers come from? It must include some pretty odd bits and pieces like U1 Principal’s release time and the like that don’t really have anything to do with class size. I bet the 5 fold includes preschool too. It would be interesting to know.

  14. Treetop 14

    Key and Parata have certainly shown how much they value teachers, the education of children and the workload of principals. To even take one dollar from education is such a backward step, yet alone 43 million.

    I know what 43 million will not buy. Key and Parata are oblivious to the stress and the wasted hours that principals have to find to try and deliver the same level of education prior to the senseless education cuts in the last budget.

    I am confident to say that when Labour are re elected, sorting out education cuts will be a high priority. Next on the list will probably be housing; in particular HNZ.

    • seeker 14.1

      Good comment Treetop

      “To even take one dollar from education is such a backward step, yet alone 43 million.”

      Not just a backward step but criminal incompetence in my mind. Our children really do not deserve to be diminished by such an amoral, empty headed, money-only minded governement.

      • Bob 14.1.1

        Treetop/Seeker, you could both do with reading this report http://www.asianscientist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/129_report_learning_from_the_best_main.pdf

        Notice how the countries that spend the most are getting the worst results? Perhaps money isn’t the issue. Again, I disagree with the way National are handling this, but I do agree with the concept, and just because you are taking money away does not mean you don’t have the childrens best interests at heart.

        • felix 14.1.1.1

          “Notice how the countries that spend the most are getting the worst results? Perhaps money isn’t the issue.”

          Or maybe the countries with the worst results actually have more problems to fix. Which costs more money.

          “Again, I disagree with the way National are handling this, but I do agree with the concept, and just because you are taking money away does not mean you don’t have the childrens best interests at heart.”

          Be clear, Bob. What is the “concept” you agree with? Increasing class sizes?

          If so you would be the only person ever to argue that increasing class sizes has “childrens best interests at heart”.

          • Bob 14.1.1.1.1

            Felix, did you even read through this? http://www.asianscientist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/129_report_learning_from_the_best_main.pdf
            I am not an expert on education, but the results shown in this report throughout Asia/Australasia show that class size (up to 40 per class in Shanghai where they are still getting top results in Reading, Maths and Science) does not have anywhere near the effect on students learning that quality teaching does. Obviously their needs to be a balance (100/1 ratio probably wouldn’t work for example, but I don’t know anywhere that has tried so I can’t back that up with facts), and their needs to be resources thrown at upskilling a number of our Teachers, and trying to weed out the ‘bad eggs’. This is where I think the latest announcement from National falls short, they have taken from one side without giving back to the other.

            Does this clarify my point at all?

            • Colonial Viper 14.1.1.1.1.1

              Elite private schools advertise class sizes of under 20 as being the best for children and their educational achievement.

              They know best.

            • felix 14.1.1.1.1.2

              Not sure it does clarify your point Bob, but it sure as fuck clarifies your position.

              Stop throwing up these red herrings and false dichotomies. It’s not a choice between smaller classes or better teaching.

              Either smaller classes are better or they’re not. Pick one. Yes or no.

  15. fabregas4 15

    Here is what happens in my school:

    Right now

    Year 1 18 children (recommended 15)
    Year 2 22
    Year 3 22 (Beginning Teacher)
    Year 4/5 26
    Year 6 28

    We still have new entrants to come which will lift us to around 123 children by the end of the year. We are funded for 5 teachers after child 101, the 6th at 126.

    After changes we will be funded for teacher 4 at 97.5 – the 5th at 125 – the 6th at 153.5.’

    So if we hit 123 children at years end we still would not qualify to be fully funded for teacher 5 meaning classes like this
    Year 1 18
    Year 2 24 (can’t in all conscience go higher for 6 year olds)
    Year 3 40
    Year 4/5 41

    You do, upon request, get additional staffing for every three children past each cut off but this doesn’t work well because you cant have a part funded teacher without having the funding from the school operations grant/or the community to cover the rest. My decile 1 school will not be able to top up the salary of a teacher part funded and nor should they.

    • Treetop 15.1

      Thank you for providing an example of what 43 million will not buy.

      What a wasted opportunity for children to learn by increasing the amount of students that a teacher has to teach. Decrease of class size and not increase of class size, is what the government does not get.

    • Dv 15.2

      This needs to published in the media.

    • Treetop 15.3

      Looking at the after changes at years 3 & 4, I expect that more sick leave will be taken.

      How is the increase in student numbers going to affect a relief teacher?

      A big no brainer from the government.

    • ianmac 15.4

      Good stuff Fabregas4. Especially the jump from 6th teacher at 126 to 6th at 153.5 It is disgraceful. But I wonder if they are softening up for another go at Bulk Funding of Salaries?

    • Simon of Glen Eden 15.5

      As a Y3 teacher, 40! if and a big if all of then came to at or above standard I might cope, If not, don’t expect much help (one on one) for Below or Well Below students (Parents will need to hire Private Tutors) Report time would mean learning stops in the class (for a week) while I do formal testing and informal conferencing. And say good bye to Te Reo Maori, Technology and a lot of the ART, there won’t be time for it if I have 6-7 groups in writing reading and maths to work through each day.

    • richard 15.6

      All the kiwi Mums and Dads will be far too busy investing in power companies to be bothered with such trivial things like their kids education. I’m sure John is relaxed.

  16. Matt F 16

    It’s also great news that they’re increasing the chocolate rations from 5oz up to 4oz.

  17. Sacking ‘only’ 400 teachers…

    Any evidence of this? I’ve only seen attrition mentioned.

    Nevertheless, the Nats really stuffed this one up, quite shoddy, but at least they are readjusting when it was brough to their atention.

    • mike e 17.1

      puerile git government apologist brown nosed idiot

    • BernyD 17.2

      Readjusting?
      Put on the “Clown faces people” they’re onto us.
      We can’t let on we are idiots touting crap our Facist Grandparents spewed.
      Smile we’re on camera, Where’s ShonKey he knows what not to say.

    • North 17.3

      Doubt Doubt Doubt then Apologise Apologise Apologise then more or less as postscript (little little letters) “they’ve not done well”………the apology having been well made in the first place.

      That is extremely dishonest and you do it incessantly Pete George.

  18. Treetop 18

    Two faced Key. Oh how I wish he would sack Banks and reduce the number of MPs in Parliament.

    • Bob 18.1

      He can’t sack Banks, Banks is the leader of the ACT party (not part of National), he could drop Banks from his Ministerial duties, but he would remain in Parliament and still be able to vote with the Government. Sorry to ruin your dreams with reality……..again.

      • felix 18.1.1

        “he could drop Banks from his Ministerial duties”

        So why doesn’t he? He’s sacked other Ministers for far less. Guess he’s not as confident as you that he’d continue to vote with the govt.

        ps I enjoyed your little joke about Banks and ACT not being part of National. Very dry.

        • Bob 18.1.1.1

          Good question Felix, he possibly should stand down Banks, although has anyone provided any solid proof he has done anything wrong? There are lots of allegations and refuted emails flying around, but has anyone actually provided any hard proof of wrong doing? If there is, I am sure the Police investigation will follow through and John Key won’t have a choice. If not, then do we stand down MP’s every time an allegation is made?

          • Colonial Viper 18.1.1.1.1

            If not, then do we stand down MP’s every time an allegation is made?

            It shouldn’t be an automatic procedure. It requires good judgement around what the circumstances and allegations are. Something Key has precious little of.

      • Treetop 18.1.2

        I did not specify what to sack Banks from. Of course it could only be as a minister.

        When it comes to reducing the number of MPs in parliament, I was not specific either. National could vote to reduce MPs to 99, however this is not likely as National do not want to lower the threshold for MMP so that the calibre of people like Banks can prop up a failing government. National know what the unviable thresholds for MMP are when it comes to Banks and Dunne, (both would be gonners with how they are polling).

        I will read the material in your link above. Had you scrolled down you would have seen that the increase of class numbers is what concerns me.

        As a side issue, some DHBs are realising that increasing community services is decreasing the cost of rest home care. This will not work with class numbers.

        • Bob 18.1.2.1

          My apologies Treetop, I took the 2 points you made in your one sentence as being linked, and therefore took you out of context.

          I would not think that reducing the number of MP’s to 99 would be something anyone on the ‘Left’ would push for. Surely this would put more emphasis on Electorates and less on List MP’s? Last time I looked, the vast majority of electorate seats are Blue ( http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-election-results-2011/?page=map ) and have been for years (part of the reason we scrapped FPP). Again, I could be wrong on this.

          • Colonial Viper 18.1.2.1.1

            I would not think that reducing the number of MP’s to 99 would be something anyone on the ‘Left’ would push for.

            Something that no one on the ‘Right’ is pushing for either.

          • Treetop 18.1.2.1.2

            Yes my sentence context was a bit ambiguous.

            Labour have done as well as National, if not better in gaining electorate seats in some elections. A graph would be interesting to see. The thing is, National have all these electorate seats and they have to APPEASE Banks to prop up the government. Something not right here. No consistency on Key’s part perhaphs.

  19. BernyD 19

    All ShonKey has to do is increase corrections staff three fold.
    They obviously have got a lot of teenagers on the way.
    They’ll probably break the “Good News” when they open the crèche in Mt Eden.
    And of course it fits the privatisation methodology perfectly. Win Win for the national party.
    Maybe they can fit some Whanua Ora people in too, jobs for everyone
    The new Nat slogan can read
    “No more recidivism, when they’re safe at school.”

  20. Phil 20

    We really should stop reacting to this strategy.
    It’s old and tired but every time the Nacts use it and we react we reinvigorate it and make it seem new.
    So the Nacts put out a proposal, Key apparently reigns them in, looks wonderful. Those on the left (ish) appear ungrateful to the populace, and Key wins again.
    C’mon guys, the real issue is that we have no bloody alternative to the Nacts, just another bunch of neo capitalists who embrace the free market/socialize the debt, privatize the profit/austerity nonsense.
    No alternative is provided, just a watered down package that if re-hydrated would look, feel and be the same as the Nact package.
    Capitalism, if it walks like a duck and quacks..it’s probably a duck.

  21. We don’t need no Pa-ra-ta
    We don’t need no Anne Tol-ley
    No born to rule Neo-cons
    Go-ver-ning us

    HEY NATIONAL! LEAVE THEM TEACHERS ALONE!

    All in all you are just
    Another Brick in the Wall

    All in all you were just
    Another Brick in the Wall
    —-

    Seriously, what planet does this Government think we live on? How can mass teacher redundancies be anything but bad?

    If they wanted us to be brought into the 21st Century, I’d say New Zealand education is going in the opposite direction.

  22. Greg 22

    Hi Guys – just for fun I used the internet to do some research of my own. I checked out these PISA scores everyones talking about (pisa.oecd.org) and found that this site has lots of good sound research material freely available. I found the following statement interesting in particular: ‘School systems considered successful spend large amounts of money on education, and tend to prioritise teachers’ pay
    over smaller classes.’ Yep, thats right, class sizes are less important than paying teachers properly. So, if we make classes slightly larger (for 5 of the 13 school years) then we can give more training to teachers and hence, potentially, better pay. Surely only someone with a brain solidified by years of lefty indoctrination (i.e. most teachers) could argue against this?

    • BernyD 22.1

      You can’t compare Educational systems from other counties.

      Who knows what they call or how they judge “Success”, we need to base our thinking on NZ Children.

      It’s results in the Job market that count, rising unemployment and increasing violent crime rates are what we need to prevent.

      If teachers spend all the time available managing the reporting structure and doing paperwork then kids will miss out.

      I think we should be adding staff in the form of Teaching “Support” personnel , which allows for on the job training, entry level salary, Two teaching staff per class (Although an aide could be shared over multiple classes), and ongoing careers for upcoming teaching staff.

      This would reduce the load on Teachers, allow our kids more one on one teaching, and help Senior teachers manage class sizes of 40+

    • Pascal's bookie 22.2

      I can’t be sure I found the exact source you found Greg, (so forgive me if I’m wrong), but doesn’t that research argue that places where teachers are highly respected and paid well enough to attract the brightest into the profession do better than places that don’t value teaching as a profession?

      I’m not sure that your argument, (that reducing class sizes and using the savings to put current teachers on a course, which might possibly, via mechanisms unnamed, increase their salary) follows from the research you don’t actually cite.

      And I’m even more sure that this thinking, sadly to the fore amoung this government and it’s supporters :

      Surely only someone with a brain solidified by years of lefty indoctrination (i.e. most teachers) could argue against this?

      is pretty much exactly the sort of thing they say we should try the opposite of.

      • Greg 22.2.1

        Hi Pascal’s bookie

        You’re right with that last statement. I was naughty putting that in 😉

        A key reference I would site is here:
        http://www.pisa.oecd.org/dataoecd/11/16/48852721.pdf. The title of this document being “PISA 2009 Results: What Makes a School Successful”.

        Just in case you think I’m a dyed in the wool right winger there is also a paper here showing that performance related pay (to drive teacher effectiveness) is only useful in some circumstances and not in others. If you read this: http://www.pisa.oecd.org/dataoecd/33/16/50328990.pdf you will find that it may not be the most appropriate tool for the New Zealand context.

        I’m all for doing what works or looks like it might be a better strategy. Personally I think this Left vs Right stuff should be left in the 19th century where it might have once made some sense.

        • Greg 22.2.1.1

          sorry, forgot to add this in – Yes! Lets support and pay teachers well. Could not agree more. Looking at Finland that’s what they do and, as I say, if thats what it takes lets do it.

          • Pascal's bookie 22.2.1.1.1

            Great.

            This governments rhetoric and general approach toward the profession has been dismal. We need to do a lot better.

  23. Dv 23

    Greg- Two examples I have seen
    Both are from teachers/principals

    BOTH have classes of over 40 in the new model.

    Example One
    Now
    Year 1 18 children (recommended 15) 18
    Year 2 22 24
    Year 3 22 (Beginning Teacher)
    Year 4/5 26
    Year 6 28

    We still have new entrants to come which will lift us to around 123 children by the end of the year. We are funded for 5 teachers after child 101, the 6th at 126.

    New
    After changes we will be funded for teacher 4 at 97.5 – the 5th at 125 – the 6th at 153.5.’

    So if we hit 123 children at years end we still would not qualify to be fully funded for teacher 5 meaning classes like this
    Year 1 18
    Year 2 24 (can’t in all conscience go higher for 6 year olds)
    Year 3 40
    Year 4/5 41

    Example 2
    1 teacher at my school is 20% of teachers! At each years end I have around 120 children. If I place 15 children in Year 1, then the balance of 105 children must be fitted within three classrooms. Quite frankly 27.5 children is too many in a Year 2 class – especially a rural, decile 1, 88% Maori school. So if I place say 24 in this room I have two classes of 40 left!

    • Greg 23.1

      Hi Dv,

      You had the courtesy to provide a thoughtful response to me so I’ve put some thought into the numbers provided. First of all let me say that I acknowledge that having to manage a school must be a challenge and also that having to apply funding formulas to people will always be a headache.

      After looking at the numbers I must admit I can’t quite line them up. For example in the before case there are 22 children in year three and in the after case there are 40 so I would just ask where the additional kids have come from. This makes analysis difficult. My other challenge with the numbers is that the example discusses a funding model wherein overall teacher numbers are set by the total number of kids at the school (5 teachers at 101, 6 at 126). Excuse my ignorance – is this a rule over and above the ratios set by year (year 1 1:15, year 2 1:27.5 etc)?

      I guess I would just say (as per my point above) that applying funding forumla’s will always be a headache and each school will have its own challenges. The two examples provided above are small schools therefore the anomalies will be greater than in larger schools where there will naturally be more flexibility. I can only say in these two cases that I hope the education department shows flexibility.

      My point remains however that OECD research shows you get more bang for your buck by training teachers than by having class sizes as small as possible. Money is short and it needs to be spent effectively.

  24. Dv 24

    The key no in the first example is the expect roll of 123 at the end of the year, ant the principal has to spread the pupils across the available teachers

    “My point remains however that OECD research shows you get more bang for your buck by training teachers than by having class sizes as small as possible. Money is short and it needs to be spent effectively.

    Having 40 pupils in a class is not effective. The difference between 26,27 28 pupils would not probably make major difference, BUT a jump 40 would.

  25. Draco T Bastard 25

    Oh dear, poor PMKey just got caught saying that he prefers smaller classes for his children thus proving that the larger classes for state schools has an ulterior motive. Tax cuts for the rich perhaps?

  26. Treetop 26

    Increasing class size has to be a no. Too much uncertainty here cause if it aint broke no need to fix it.

    Increasing personal development days is a yes. Every teacher has the capacity to upskill. A behaviour modification paper or a dispute resolution/communication paper would enhance class management.

    Teaching is a bit like midwifery. The course content has to cover what is going to present it self. If National want better teachers they have to examine what is being taught to student teachers. Some papers I have studied were a waste of time and other papers taught me worthwhile staff. I am sure anyone who has studied can relate to course content being valuable or invaluable.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • EV road user charges bill passes
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed the passing of legislation to move light electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) into the road user charges system from 1 April.  “It was always intended that EVs and PHEVs would be exempt from road user charges until they reached two ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago
  • Bill targets illegal, unregulated fishing in international waters
    New Zealand is strengthening its ability to combat illegal fishing outside its domestic waters and beef up regulation for its own commercial fishers in international waters through a Bill which had its first reading in Parliament today. The Fisheries (International Fishing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill 2023 sets out stronger ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • Reserve Bank appointments
    Economists Carl Hansen and Professor Prasanna Gai have been appointed to the Reserve Bank Monetary Policy Committee, Finance Minister Nicola Willis announced today. The Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) is the independent decision-making body that sets the Official Cash Rate which determines interest rates.  Carl Hansen, the executive director of Capital ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Stronger protections for apartment owners
    Apartment owners and buyers will soon have greater protections as further changes to the law on unit titles come into effect, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “The Unit Titles (Strengthening Body Corporate Governance and Other Matters) Amendment Act had already introduced some changes in December 2022 and May 2023, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • Travel focused on traditional partners and Middle East
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Egypt and Europe from this weekend.    “This travel will focus on a range of New Zealand’s traditional diplomatic and security partnerships while enabling broad engagement on the urgent situation in Gaza,” Mr Peters says.   Mr Peters will attend the NATO Foreign ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • Keep safe on our roads this Easter
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown is encouraging all road users to stay safe, plan their journeys ahead of time, and be patient with other drivers while travelling around this Easter long weekend. “Road safety is a responsibility we all share, and with increased traffic on our roads expected this Easter we ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Cost of living support for over 1.4 million Kiwis
    About 1.4 million New Zealanders will receive cost of living relief through increased government assistance from April 1 909,000 pensioners get a boost to Superannuation, including 5000 veterans 371,000 working-age beneficiaries will get higher payments 45,000 students will see an increase in their allowance Over a quarter of New Zealanders ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Tenancy reviews for social housing restart
    Ensuring social housing is being provided to those with the greatest needs is front of mind as the Government restarts social housing tenancy reviews, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. “Our relentless focus on building a strong economy is to ensure we can deliver better public services such as social ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary plan halted
    The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary will not go ahead, with Cabinet deciding to stop work on the proposed reserve and remove the Bill that would have established it from Parliament’s order paper. “The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary Bill would have created a 620,000 sq km economic no-go zone,” Oceans and Fisheries Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    24 hours ago
  • Cutting all that dam red tape
    Dam safety regulations are being amended so that smaller dams won’t be subject to excessive compliance costs, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on reducing costs and removing unnecessary red tape so we can get the economy back on track.  “Dam safety regulations ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Drought support extended to parts of North Island
    The coalition Government is expanding the medium-scale adverse event classification to parts of the North Island as dry weather conditions persist, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. “I have made the decision to expand the medium-scale adverse event classification already in place for parts of the South Island to also cover the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Passage of major tax bill welcomed
    The passing of legislation giving effect to coalition Government tax commitments has been welcomed by Finance Minister Nicola Willis.  “The Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill will help place New Zealand on a more secure economic footing, improve outcomes for New Zealanders, and make our tax system ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Lifting economy through science, tertiary sectors
    Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Judith Collins and Tertiary Education and Skills Minister Penny Simmonds today announced plans to transform our science and university sectors to boost the economy. Two advisory groups, chaired by Professor Sir Peter Gluckman, will advise the Government on how these sectors can play a greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government announces Budget priorities
    The Budget will deliver urgently-needed tax relief to hard-working New Zealanders while putting the government’s finances back on a sustainable track, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says.  The Finance Minister made the comments at the release of the Budget Policy Statement setting out the Government’s Budget objectives. “The coalition Government intends ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government to consider accommodation solution
    The coalition Government will look at options to address a zoning issue that limits how much financial support Queenstown residents can get for accommodation. Cabinet has agreed on a response to the Petitions Committee, which had recommended the geographic information MSD uses to determine how much accommodation supplement can be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government approves extension to Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care
    Cabinet has agreed to a short extension to the final reporting timeframe for the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care from 28 March 2024 to 26 June 2024, Internal Affairs Minister Brooke van Velden says.                                         “The Royal Commission wrote to me on 16 February 2024, requesting that I consider an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • $18m boost for Kiwis travelling to health treatment
    The coalition Government is delivering an $18 million boost to New Zealanders needing to travel for specialist health treatment, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says.   “These changes are long overdue – the National Travel Assistance (NTA) scheme saw its last increase to mileage and accommodation rates way back in 2009.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • PM’s Prizes for Space to showcase sector’s talent
    The Government is recognising the innovative and rising talent in New Zealand’s growing space sector, with the Prime Minister and Space Minister Judith Collins announcing the new Prime Minister’s Prizes for Space today. “New Zealand has a growing reputation as a high-value partner for space missions and research. I am ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Concerns conveyed to China over cyber activity
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has confirmed New Zealand’s concerns about cyber activity have been conveyed directly to the Chinese Government.     “The Prime Minister and Minister Collins have expressed concerns today about malicious cyber activity, attributed to groups sponsored by the Chinese Government, targeting democratic institutions in both New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Independent Reviewers appointed for School Property Inquiry
    Independent Reviewers appointed for School Property Inquiry Education Minister Erica Stanford today announced the appointment of three independent reviewers to lead the Ministerial Inquiry into the Ministry of Education’s School Property Function.  The Inquiry will be led by former Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully. “There is a clear need ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Brynderwyns open for Easter
    State Highway 1 across the Brynderwyns will be open for Easter weekend, with work currently underway to ensure the resilience of this critical route being paused for Easter Weekend to allow holiday makers to travel north, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Today I visited the Brynderwyn Hills construction site, where ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to the Infrastructure Funding & Financing Conference
    Introduction Good morning to you all, and thanks for having me bright and early today. I am absolutely delighted to be the Minister for Infrastructure alongside the Minister of Housing and Resource Management Reform. I know the Prime Minister sees the three roles as closely connected and he wants me ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Parliamentary network breached by the PRC
    New Zealand stands with the United Kingdom in its condemnation of People’s Republic of China (PRC) state-backed malicious cyber activity impacting its Electoral Commission and targeting Members of the UK Parliament. “The use of cyber-enabled espionage operations to interfere with democratic institutions and processes anywhere is unacceptable,” Minister Responsible for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ to provide support for Solomon Islands election
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced New Zealand will provide logistics support for the upcoming Solomon Islands election. “We’re sending a team of New Zealand Defence Force personnel and two NH90 helicopters to provide logistics support for the election on 17 April, at the request ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ-EU FTA gains Royal Assent for 1 May entry to force
    The European Union Free Trade Agreement Legislation Amendment Bill received Royal Assent today, completing the process for New Zealand’s ratification of its free trade agreement with the European Union.    “I am pleased to announce that today, in a small ceremony at the Beehive, New Zealand notified the European Union ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • COVID-19 inquiry attracts 11,000 submissions
    Public consultation on the terms of reference for the Royal Commission into COVID-19 Lessons has concluded, Internal Affairs Minister Hon Brooke van Velden says.  “I have been advised that there were over 11,000 submissions made through the Royal Commission’s online consultation portal.” Expanding the scope of the Royal Commission of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Families to receive up to $75 a week help with ECE fees
    Hardworking families are set to benefit from a new credit to help them meet their early childcare education (ECE) costs, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. From 1 July, parents and caregivers of young children will be supported to manage the rising cost of living with a partial reimbursement of their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Unlocking a sustainable, low-emissions future
    A specialised Independent Technical Advisory Group (ITAG) tasked with preparing and publishing independent non-binding advice on the design of a "green" (sustainable finance) taxonomy rulebook is being established, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says.  “Comprising experts and market participants, the ITAG's primary goal is to deliver comprehensive recommendations to the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Chief of Army thanked for his service
    Defence Minister Judith Collins has thanked the Chief of Army, Major General John Boswell, DSD, for his service as he leaves the Army after 40 years. “I would like to thank Major General Boswell for his contribution to the Army and the wider New Zealand Defence Force, undertaking many different ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister to meet Australian counterparts and Manufacturing Industry Leaders
    25 March 2024 Minister to meet Australian counterparts and Manufacturing Industry Leaders Small Business, Manufacturing, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly will travel to Australia for a series of bi-lateral meetings and manufacturing visits. During the visit, Minister Bayly will meet with his Australian counterparts, Senator Tim Ayres, Ed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government commits nearly $3 million for period products in schools
    Government commits almost $3 million for period products in schools The Coalition Government has committed $2.9 million to ensure intermediate and secondary schools continue providing period products to those who need them, Minister of Education Erica Stanford announced today. “This is an issue of dignity and ensuring young women don’t ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech – Making it easier to build.
    Good morning, it’s great to be here.   First, I would like to acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of Building Surveyors and thank you for the opportunity to be here this morning.  I would like to use this opportunity to outline the Government’s ambitious plan and what we hope to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Pacific youth to shine from boost to Polyfest
    Minister for Pacific Peoples Dr Shane Reti has announced the Government’s commitment to the Auckland Secondary Schools Māori and Pacific Islands Cultural Festival, more commonly known as Polyfest. “The Ministry for Pacific Peoples is a longtime supporter of Polyfest and, as it celebrates 49 years in 2024, I’m proud to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • 2024 Ngarimu VC and 28th (Māori) Battalion Memorial Scholarships announced
    ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Speech to Breast Cancer Foundation – Insights Conference
    Before moving onto the substance of today’s address, I want to recognise the very significant and ongoing contribution the Breast Cancer Foundation makes to support the lives of New Zealand women and their families living with breast cancer. I very much enjoy working with you. I also want to recognise ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Kiwi research soars to International Space Station
    New Zealand has notched up a first with the launch of University of Canterbury research to the International Space Station, Science, Innovation and Technology and Space Minister Judith Collins says. The hardware, developed by Dr Sarah Kessans, is designed to operate autonomously in orbit, allowing scientists on Earth to study ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Planning Institute
    Introduction Thank you for inviting me to speak with you today and I’m sorry I can’t be there in person. Yesterday I started in Wellington for Breakfast TV, spoke to a property conference in Auckland, and finished the day speaking to local government in Christchurch, so it would have been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Support for Northland emergency response centre
    The Coalition Government is contributing more than $1 million to support the establishment of an emergency multi-agency coordination centre in Northland. Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell announced the contribution today during a visit of the Whangārei site where the facility will be constructed.  “Northland has faced a number ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Celebrating 20 years of Whakaata Māori
    New Zealanders have enjoyed a broader range of voices telling the story of Aotearoa thanks to the creation of Whakaata Māori 20 years ago, says Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka. The minister spoke at a celebration marking the national indigenous media organisation’s 20th anniversary at their studio in Auckland on ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Some commercial fishery catch limits increased
    Commercial catch limits for some fisheries have been increased following a review showing stocks are healthy and abundant, Ocean and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The changes, along with some other catch limit changes and management settings, begin coming into effect from 1 April 2024. "Regular biannual reviews of fish ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-03-28T20:16:09+00:00