SAS -services for sale?

Written By: - Date published: 8:48 am, November 8th, 2010 - 45 comments
Categories: defence - Tags:

I’m gobsmacked that John Key thinks it is a “good idea” for the SAS to whore itself and Crown property out so that fat businessmen can play soldier. What is our elite force doing pandering to the delusions of middle-aged dickheads to make money for a private fund? And what has happened to the SAS’s secrecy?

Before Willie Apiata, no serving SAS soldier was ever named. We’re told that this is to protect the operational security of our elite fighting force.

In my experience, the Army’s attitude to keeping the SAS under wraps is very staunch. I was once told something disconcerting about the SAS’s operations in Afghanistan by a disgruntled soldier (I won’t repeat it without more evidence). When I mentioned to another soldier I had heard something about the SAS from a soldier his reply was ‘anyone who tells you anything they think they know about the SAS is a dickhead and a traitor’ and that was the end of the conversation.

A culture of complete secrecy.

Except when fat businessmen are offering money. Then it’s playing around with Crown property and personal contact with serving SAS members.

If the SAS family trust needs more cash then they should ask to government for it. They shouldn’t be whoring themselves out to businesses. And will we taxpayers be getting reimbursed by the trust that took this money for the cost of the use of the weapons and our employees’ time?

45 comments on “SAS -services for sale? ”

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  1. Colonial Viper 1
    8 November 2010 at 9:08 am

    This sends an awful message in NZ society – if you have enough money, you can have access to anyone in the country, there is nothing that you can’t get and there is no one that you can’t touch.

    More money worship on the hard ego driven alter of capitalism.

  2. come get some 2
    8 November 2010 at 9:17 am

    would be a completly different story if it was the CTU who had undergone these secret weapons trainings.

    Imagine the uproar

    • Marty G 2.1
      8 November 2010 at 9:28 am

      back in the old days, the communist party of nz used to put young members into the army to get them military training for the revolution. never came to anything.

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1
        8 November 2010 at 3:32 pm

        That’s because they should have sent their young members into MBA school instead. Then you could’ve taken over the establishment from within 😛

        • Ari 2.1.1.1
          8 November 2010 at 10:04 pm

          Please, there are some things so distasteful even revolutionary communists won’t consider them. 🙂

          • Pascal's bookie 2.1.1.1.1
            8 November 2010 at 10:15 pm

            But just think, they could move into banking, heighten the contradictions by using absurd remuneration schemes, launch an increasingly corrupted, complicated and unstable financial architecture with the aim of destroying the economic financial underpinnings of the capitalist military states, thus creating the perfect conditions for, hang on.

    • bbfloyd 2.2
      8 November 2010 at 5:31 pm

      C.G.S…they weren’t secret numbnuts.. that’s part of the problem… wake up.. this isn’t one of your party political bunfights.. it’s our elite forces that are being used to make money… give it some real thought.

  3. tc 3
    8 November 2010 at 9:24 am

    ‘I’m gobsmacked that John Key thinks it is a “good idea” for the SAS to whore itself and Crown property out so that fat businessmen can play soldier.’……this is sideshow the ex money trader who is now playing with some different other peoples money so everything under his control has a price….including you and me.

    In the NACT world we’d be an outpost of china/US whoever wants to pay or in warners bro’s case get us to pay….watch how out of his depth Mapp is over this.

  4. Tigger 4
    8 November 2010 at 9:30 am

    This is creepy. There is no other word for it. Private people firing SAS weaponry? Who on earth thought this was a good idea? There is nothing that isn’t for sale now. Next we’ll have the SAS contracting themselves out as private security for My Super Sweet 16th birthday parties and Key trumpeting how they’ve managed to wring more usefulness out of a service that used to sit idle for great periods of time…

    • grumpy 4.1
      8 November 2010 at 11:50 am

      I’ve always wanted to fire one of those .50cal sniper rifles – how much would that cost?

    • the pink postman 4.2
      8 November 2010 at 4:03 pm

      Creepy for sure Tigger also scary. Business people learning how to attack .Attack who one might ask. Well they had a scare with the March for Fairness at Work . They live in terrible fear of unions do they not. Then when they pay themselves huge bonuses whilst cutting workers pay and conditions at work these parsite business men want to be prepaired.
      Just read a bit of working class history its all there . In 1912 Churchill wanted to use the army and navy against the miners , I would not trust them an inch. Just listen to the rich farmers when unions are mentioned .
      I can’t for one moment believe they were just having fun.If they wanted to play at soldiers they can play “paintball” with all the other nuts!

  5. billy fish 5
    8 November 2010 at 9:38 am

    The SAS –
    For when Paintball isn’t good enough

  6. freedom 6
    8 November 2010 at 9:39 am

    i won’t even begin to list how many ways this is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

    There are some things you do not do with your elite forces, but hey it’s a New World Order and they get what they want, when they want, where they want.

    I would wager that the deployment to the illegal wars in the Middle East have contributed to this mercenary behaviour from our troops. When it comes to prostituting a military no-one does it better than America, so perhaps some of the numerous US advisors that are attatched to forward operations have been giving advice on how to turn our Armed Services into a Package Tour Paramilitary Group and I am sure they have been getting plenty of notes from their Blackwater/Xe mates, who now make up more than half of all personnel on the ground.

    • Tigger 6.1
      8 November 2010 at 10:51 am

      Eddie uses ‘whore’, freedom uses ‘prostitute’ and frankly I can’t think of any more apt descriptions for this behaviour. So funny that many Nats voted down prostitution reform but are happy to promote selling of oneself in another form…

  7. anarcho 7
    8 November 2010 at 10:35 am

    They weren’t anywhere near the Urewera’s were they?

  8. prism 8
    8 November 2010 at 12:36 pm

    A previous rwLabour or National govt saw encouragement to think on business lines for depts. Police took this up – in some places went moonlighting as security guards. PPP inserted into all our public spheres and the screw loosened? Wait till we get into free-trade with the USA. Some are worried about China but there are many different heads on screwdrivers these days.

    Who are our defence forces fighting for in their own minds? In the minds of the businessmen (probably not women according to latest figures on women in prime jobs) this sort of ‘junket’ is probably explained as ‘We’re paying for this with our taxes, we are players – stakeholders so it’s only playing with our own toy soldiers’. Pity financiers didn’t put their investment into training sessions on how to run businesses for long-term success – effectively, smartly and honestly.

  9. Bill 9
    8 November 2010 at 12:42 pm

    As I commented on yesterday’s open mike, it is the networking aspect of this that is disquieting.

    Firing guns or running around assault courses is ‘whatever’.

    But private business overtly networking or building relationships with any serving members of the military in a world where the lines between a military serving a state or serving business have become so blurred as to be a faint smudge should be cause for concern.

    What potential ‘revolving door’ policy is being encouraged by these liaisons between the military and private business? Potential outsourcing or contracting out of logistical support?

    Let’s put aside the fact that military personnel are already dropping out of the military and taking up employment with business serving private contractors in war zones is already a reality.

    Given that the NZ establishment seems keen on treating the rest of Polynesia as more of a ‘backyard’ these days for NZ business…eg tying aid to profit and being very willing to intervene in the internal affairs of smaller nation states, we might want to look long and hard at future actions/interventions and ask whose interests are being serviced and by whom.

  10. grumpy 10
    8 November 2010 at 12:45 pm

    The Whale is onto this, he claims this goes way back to the last Labour govt. If he’s got proof this could be embarrassing for the left.

    • Colonial Viper 10.1
      8 November 2010 at 12:50 pm

      Bet you it goes way back to Bolger. Or I could just be making random shite up and worrying about the ‘evidence’ later to try and deflect attention away from the bad judgement of these current events.

      • grumpy 10.1.1
        8 November 2010 at 12:56 pm

        Probably correct. I can remember when I was a kid, dad took me to an open day at Burnham and I had a go with an SLR and a short burst with a GPMG. Totally acceptable back then

        • felix 10.1.1.1
          8 November 2010 at 2:47 pm

          Yeah ‘cos an open day at an army base is exactly the same as contracting out the SAS for private military training…

          /facepalm

          Oh and that idiot Slater has admitted that he has no problem with making shit up to suit his ends. He reckons there’s no such thing as truth or fact, it’s just what you can get people to believe at a given time.

          That means that anyone using him as a source or conduit of info needs their head examined.

          • grumpy 10.1.1.1.1
            8 November 2010 at 3:18 pm

            Dunno, I’d spend $10 to have a lash with a H&K MP5. What’s the difference? If they want to make some dough just do that. You could organise a teacher’s trip and they could shoot at Tolley cut outs – just wouldn’t be allowed to keep the score – can’t have losers can we?

            • felix 10.1.1.1.1.1
              8 November 2010 at 3:29 pm

              I think you’re missing the point. We pay these fuckers to go overseas and kill skinny brown people, not to stay here and train fat white ones.

              Of course if they’re no longer serving and they’re using their own weapons and equipment then it’s none of my business, but if not then what the fuck do we have an SAS for if this is the best use they can come up with for all the weapons and training we pay for?

              • grumpy …
                8 November 2010 at 3:42 pm

                We could get them to train the “fat white ones” to go overseas and kill the “skinny brown ones”. That would be a great corporate bonding exercise. Just think what Rankin could have done with that at WINZ.

              • Bored …
                8 November 2010 at 3:47 pm

                Felix, I might quite happily give them a list of the fat whites I would pay them to shoot. I would however want a discount for Brownlee, no skill involved there as he is too big to miss.

  11. Policy Parrot 11
    8 November 2010 at 2:44 pm

    While I agree with the concerns voiced here, I would like to think that a lot of us would like to see the likes of Cpl. Apiata slapping Farrar in the face for insubordination.

    Captcha: recommended – yes indeed.

  12. travellerev 12
    8 November 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Why the surprise? Finance boys and a press trained Willy Apiata (their investment paid for with your tax dollar earned back in one day). A match made in heaven. Or did you think they spend $ 35.000 on our own National Rambo for nowt?

  13. Bored 13
    8 November 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Actually, some “corporate” paying the SAS (the same guys as we collectively pay to defend us) for favours steps over a line in the sand. That this governemt and the minister responsible are not using words like “court marshall” is disturbing. That they might vieew this as a financial opportunity is truly disturbing.

    • Zorr 13.1
      8 November 2010 at 6:17 pm

      I wouldn’t go so far as saying “court martial” – it isn’t so much the issue of the SAS boys training some businessmen with dosh but the fact that it is being treated as being so inconsequential that is the disturbing thing.

      We are being run by a government that sees a price tag on everything – “Special for today only! NZ on sale! Buy now and get a servile populace thrown in FREE!”

  14. Jenny 14
    8 November 2010 at 4:13 pm

    Soldiers for hire.

    There should be little surprise that our most deadly military force is on hire to rich businessmen.

    For a long time now New Zealand’s military high command have been subverting the democratic will of the New Zealand people and government.

    Despite our elected government’s decision not to send troops to Iraq, our military leaders have been subverting the democratic will of the government and the nation by allowing back door support for this illegal and brutal war in Iraq.

    New Zealand military personal, highly trained at tax-payers expense, have for a long time been officially allowed by their New Zealand superiors to take unpaid leave to go and whore themselves in Iraq either directly to US or UK forces or for private contractors like Blackwater etc., on the understanding that their jobs here in the New Zealand army will be kept open for them.

    On returning from these official “unofficial” postings our military high command put them straight back into the their jobs in the army with no loss of benefits or rank.

    The common understanding of the word ‘Mercenary’ soldiers who will kill for money.

    And there is one other word for their officers who would seek to subvert the constitutional democratic will of the government of our country.

    • travellerev 14.1
      8 November 2010 at 6:28 pm

      Hell,

      Most of these wars are fought and manipulated by “mercenaries”. In Afghanistan, Pakistan.
      In fact this is what Major General Smedley Butler had to say about it. Of course that was way earlier but I reckon nothing much has changed.

    • Jenny 14.2
      9 November 2010 at 9:47 am

      The rot starts at the top.

      That a culture of guns for hire has been allowed to develop inside the SAS is part of the deliberate strategy, encouraged by senior military commanders as a tactic to circumvent and subvert this country’s refusal to officially support the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

      By allowing members of our armed forces to moonlight as they saw fit, the top brass have fostered the culture where public service is suplanted with a culture of patronage and cronyism.

      Will anyone be held accountable?

      I doubt it.

      Will the culture of patronage, cronyism and guns for hire developing inside our armed forces be continue to be sanctioned by top brass?

      I hope not.

      But without a proper enquiry and/or investigation the most likely outcome is that this culture of patronage and cronyism inside our armed forces will just go underground and be developed and strengthened in secret.

      Who knows where it will burst out into the public arena again.

      Would it be to far to imagine that business men might hire their first name basis friends inside the SAS to do a bit of moonlighting in their factory during a strike?

      How far from that, before SAS in plain clothes are expertly assaulting trade unionists on the picket line outside the same factory, if these unionists try and impede them from stealing their jobs?

      Since the identity of SAS members are secret from everyone except these businessmen. How will anyone know if the next group of thugs assaulting picketers at an animal rights protest are not just personal friends of the employer but are also members of the SAS?

      Would these sort of links between business and the military still be considered “acceptable”.

      capcha-laboratorys

      • crashcart 14.2.1
        9 November 2010 at 11:44 pm

        Wow as a person in the military its good to know that you all feel that I should be a slave even when I take unpaid LEAVE. Thats right LEAVE. It is not uncommon for people in the military to use a period of unpaid leave to try and work them selves into the general workforce. It can be a difficult transition and the opertunity to try and take this step whilst still having a fall back is one of the rewards you get for giving up some of your rights when you join.

        If SAS and general military (I know of many people in all branches of the service who have done it) decide to go and contract in a war zone as security during this time to try and make some good money to try and set their families up what the hell buisness is it of yours? We are not your slaves. We sacrafice our time with our families and give up much more on a regular basis. Hell imagine if someone started telling you what you can do with your leave. The pissing and moaning would be unparalelled.

        • lprent 14.2.1.1
          10 November 2010 at 8:34 am

          I haven’t been following this particularly. But crashcart is correct if they are doing it on leave (can’t remember that in the msm reports – but I’m distracted with work right now). Being RF army isn’t a full-time career, you usually retire in your mid-40s and have to start a new career. Getting prepped is a good idea provided that it doesn’t reflect badly on the service, and the services will make up their own mind on that.

          The question I’d have is if this is a worthwhile use of their time. Running around the hills tuning up fat businessmen into working as teams in your 50’s seems like a serious waste of capability, and rather pointless to boot.

          Update: The other question I have is about how much army equipment is being used for these off-service exercises?

          • Jenny 14.2.1.1.1
            11 November 2010 at 6:42 pm

            In answer to Crashcart.
            I know of a number of workers who have been sacked for moonlighting for another company.

            And their job didn’t require them to employ deadly force at their employers demand.

            It is all a question of loyalty, or in this case disloyalty.

            Your military commanders by condoning this behaviour in keeping your “job” open while you are “employed” in a military endeavour that the democratically elected leaders of this country are opposed to, are guilty of insubordination to the civil authorities.

            As I said there is a word for this sort of insubordination.

  15. Jeremy Harris 15
    8 November 2010 at 6:29 pm

    Do you have a link to where Key said this..?

    • The Voice of Reason 15.1
      8 November 2010 at 7:57 pm

      They’ve got this thing called Google now, Jeremy. Give it a try sometime.

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4317060/SAS-guns-for-hire

      Prime Minister John Key called the sessions “unwise”. Speaking at the World Rowing Championships at Lake Karapiro this afternoon, Mr Key told reporters he understood the session was a “very rare” occurrence. There did not appear to be any protocols around it, however.

      “I think that it is a good idea if there are some processes or protocols put around any kind of engagement the SAS may have with community groups or business groups,” Mr Key said.

  16. Jeremy Harris 16
    8 November 2010 at 10:29 pm

    It’s not unreasonable to expect a blooger to link to a quote VoR…

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