TV1 at 7:50 – Opening Address

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1. burt 1

   28 October 2011 at 5:35 pm

   Anything could happen…. They might even be honest about how borrowing circa $16b more than National is exactly what NZ doesn’t need right now!

   http://www.oweourfuture.co.nz
   • r0b 1.1

     28 October 2011 at 6:20 pm

     Pulling numbers out of your arse again Burt?  Even the Nats can’t scrape up claims of more than $9b.  And they should know, as they have an $18.4b deficit. Because the Nats slash and burn approach is making things worse not better.

     The Nats borrow to fund tax cuts for the already wealthy.

     Labour borrows more in the short term to pay back quicker in the medium term.  Same way a business borrows to fund productive investment.  Too complicated for you?
     • burt 1.1.1

       28 October 2011 at 6:25 pm

       Sorry rOb, not my numbers. Wish I had though of that web site name – but it wasn’t me.

       It seems you didn’t click on the link…. $9b – that’s old news.
       • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1

         28 October 2011 at 6:45 pm

         At a guess I’d say that they’re not real numbers. Just figures pulled out of somebodies arse to try and paint Labour as being worse than NAct.
     • burt 1.1.2

       28 October 2011 at 6:27 pm

       Same way a business borrows to fund productive investment.

       Not many banks lend money to a business that is already spending more than it can earn – try another analogy.
       • r0b 1.1.2.1

         28 October 2011 at 6:51 pm

         So banks aren’t lending money to NZ burt?  Where’s Bill getting his $380 million a week then – pixies at the bottom of the garden?  Stick to making up random numbers burt.
         • burt 1.1.2.1.1

           28 October 2011 at 7:14 pm

           Fail on two counts rOb.

           You said (emphasis added);

           Same way a business borrows to fund productive investment. Too complicated for you?

           Then you say – so banks aren’t lending money to NZ after I said ‘Not many banks lend money to a business that is already spending more than it can earn.

           So what are we talking about rOb, a country borrowing money or a business ?

           Then you repeat your first mistake;

           “Stick to making up random numbers burt.”

           Did you not see my response: “Sorry rOb, not my numbers.”

           I’m going to do a felix… have you been drinking ?
           • r0b 1.1.2.1.1.1

             28 October 2011 at 7:19 pm

             So what are we talking about rOb,

             No one knows what you’re talking about burt, not even you. Toodles!
           • burt 1.1.2.1.1.2

             28 October 2011 at 7:29 pm

             There would have been no shame in saying you missed the link… but I guess given your initial response gives credibility to the total now being $16b it’s no surprise you kept digging. Have a good night rOb.
             • RedLogix …

               28 October 2011 at 7:49 pm

               Well that website you linked to burt is less than credible itself. Makes a lotta very specific claims with nothing to back them up.

               Not good enough.
     • burt 1.1.3

       28 October 2011 at 8:11 pm

       The Nats borrow to fund tax cuts for the already wealthy.

       You keep repeating this BS….

       see: Burt on fiscal drag and tax cuts

       In 1999 Joe blogs earns $37,000 and pays $7,215.00 (*1) tax. Using the Reserve bank calculator (*2) $37,000 mid 1999 = $47,186.73 mid 2008 attracts $10,441.38 (*3) tax.

       So their marginal tax rate in 1999 was 19.5%. In 2008 it was 22.1%. The stealth tax increase!

       I wouldn’t call a person earning $50,967.01 (*4) today rich, CV might though. I think it’s Labour heart land earner bracket. And that person under static tax thresholds for 9 years had a 2.6% tax hike if all they got was inflation adjusted wage increases.

       Today that same earner would be paying $8,310.10 in tax. That is 16.3%

       A fall of 5.8% from where Labour was gouging them.

       I understand why you don’t want to talk about fiscal drag but to claim only the rich get tax cuts, that’s just ridiculous.

       (references *1, *2, *3 & *4 in original comment)
2. queenstfarmer 2

   28 October 2011 at 5:41 pm

   So this is what party activists do on a Friday night 🙂
   • Puddleglum 2.1

     28 October 2011 at 5:50 pm

     It gets better.

     Saturday night, 7:30 on TV1, are all the opening addresses from ACT, UF, NZF, Conservatives, Maori, Alliance, ALCP (no Mana?).

     So the weekend looks like being way more exciting than last weekend. 🙂

     (Oh, yes, and tonight is also the opening addresses of the Greens and National). 
     • Lanthanide 2.1.1

       28 October 2011 at 9:56 pm

       The Mana Party registered too late to qualify for this specific funding.

       Labour and National both got the same amount (seems to be 20 minutes worth) while the Greens were recognised as being clearly head and shoulders above the other small parties and so got 8 minutes.

       I guess the other parties will probably get 4-5 minutes or something? They won’t get to say much.
   • r0b 2.2

     28 October 2011 at 6:21 pm

     G’day pot, I’m kettle!
3. Carol 3

   28 October 2011 at 6:41 pm

   There’s an edited version of the video of Labour’s opening tonight, on Stuff:

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5870477/Labour-campaign-video-harks-back-to-history

   It uses a documentary style and reflects on labour’s history.

   Through heart-warming pictures of free milk in schools, children swimming and men shearing, the intended message is clear – Labour is for a fairer New Zealand.

   Leader Phil Goff even claims as much saying the party has learnt from its mistakes and the National Party hasn't.

   The video canvases a few of those mistakes.

   There's footage of a young looking Sir Roger Douglas, with a moustache, in front of a white board discussing his economic plan.

   The voice over says that was clearly not Labour and so the two parted ways.

   Back to Goff who, with his Dad Bruce, explains why he and his family are such staunch Labour supporters.

   It seems to me that, while the video includes a lot of the Labour team (MPs/candidates) and policies, there’s also a bit of myth-building around Goff’s leadership…. contrasting Key’s state house log cabin to finance gambler/Beehive narrative.
   • Deadly_NZ 3.1

     28 October 2011 at 10:01 pm

     I watched the whole thing, It was brilliantly done. After Jonky’s usual sycophantic Q+A session.
4. just saying 4

   28 October 2011 at 6:53 pm

   Just saw the hughlights on stuff.
   Looks like game on.

   (particulary glad to see they’ve stopped the crap about the ‘many not the few ‘- we all know who the “few” they didn’t give a shit about were, and it sure as hell wasn’t the rich)
5. The Voice of Reason 5

   28 October 2011 at 7:12 pm

   Anyone know the running order tonight? Greens or Nats at 7.30, Labour, 7.50, the Nats or Greens at 8.10?
    
6. mickysavage 6

   28 October 2011 at 7:37 pm

   Gawd I think that TVone snuck on a parody show.  There is this guy who looks like Key but he keeps mangling his words.  The audience are a bit weird too, they resemble a focus group or a National Branch meeting, I am not sure which.

   This pseudo key looks really, really tired.

   Is this the National launch? 
7. aj 7

   28 October 2011 at 7:42 pm

   Oh – the mangling. Not good. Really – is this the best the Nats can do?

   Good grief. That explanation for asset sales was pathetic. I’m starting to feel sorry for him.
8. aj 8

   28 October 2011 at 7:44 pm

   Pity the school system didn’t manage to get Key to speak correctly, this is an oversight.
   Read, write, do maths, and speak clearly. I expect all four from a PM.
9. The Voice of Reason 9

   28 October 2011 at 7:44 pm

   First up it’s Team Key. It’s staged spontaneity in front of a fake audience, with John Boy answering patsy questions from actors, intercut with shots of a larger audience from some other gig. He’s lit like Boris Karloff in a cheesy Hammer horror, all dark shadows and silhouettes. This is pretty awful stuff.
    
   • mickysavage 9.1

     28 October 2011 at 7:46 pm

     Yep I am so enthused.  Is this the best that they can do?
     • The Voice of Reason 9.1.1

       28 October 2011 at 7:49 pm

       Lots of shots of ethnic faces in the cutaways. What can this possibly mean? Also, the sound is terrible; there’s a noticeable hum coming through when the Keyster is speaking.
       • mickysavage 9.1.1.1

         28 October 2011 at 8:29 pm

         Yep, they should ask for their money back.  Compared to the Labour effort the production qualities are terrible.  Mind you Labour’s advertisement was a labour of love, for the nats they probably got what they paid for.
         • KJT 9.1.1.1.1

           28 October 2011 at 8:32 pm

           Key looked so bad I almost felt sorry for him.

           In contrast Labour and the Greens were fresh and engaging.

           Labour showed that they were finally acknowledging Rogernomics and moving on to being Labour again.
   • QoT 9.2

     28 October 2011 at 9:51 pm

     The whole National campaign is giving me flashbacks to Wag the Dog …
     
10. Puddleglum 10

    28 October 2011 at 7:49 pm

    Now he’s ripping into beneficiaries after the ‘questioner’ said how unfair it was that she was working, finding it hard to pay bills and others are ‘sitting’ on benefits.

    I have to say, this is very bad. 
11. gobsmacked 11

    28 October 2011 at 7:50 pm

    Blimey, all that money in National’s coffers, you’d think they’d be re-making “Morning Again in America”. This one is dire.

    Obviously the aim is to highlight Key, but they miss the essential point – people like Key when they see him, not when they <hear him.

    This is like listening to your school chaplain trying to be cool and engaging, while you stare at the ceiling.

    And the audience are stoned?
12. aj 12

    28 October 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Almost totally dog whistle. Did not address the big items.
13. mickysavage 13

    28 October 2011 at 8:01 pm

    Now for Labour.  I can be accused of being biased but I think it is incredibly clever, hopefully not too clever.  The emphasis is on the Labour brand and what Labour has done in the past.  The party is, rightfully IMHO, drawing on past wells of good will for this election.
    • Carol 13.1

      28 October 2011 at 8:06 pm

      It’s good, very interesting…,. Good general philosophy, good personalised focus….. but unfortunately focuses strongly on Pakeha history and MPs.
      • Colonial Viper 13.1.1

        28 October 2011 at 11:01 pm

        To me this is not about identity politics but working class struggle. Those mill and manufacturing closures smashed Maori and Pasifika families harder than anyone else, the loss of state housing the same.
        • Carol 13.1.1.1

          29 October 2011 at 6:46 am

          Indeed, CV. And yet, they and their history is not really represented. Maori and Pasifika people were marginalised in early Labour history, and the video doesn’t include them explicitly in the present. The visual subtext is significant. The Greens vid wasn’t as slick, but it also embraces issues of socioeconomic inequaities as well as being culturally inclusive – the 2 parties’ vids are different parts of a more complete picture IMO, and this is the politics I’d like to see for the 21st century.

          But I also get that the Labour vids is targetting disaffected traditional Labour voters…. still… is not as inclusive as they claim to be with their fairness for all theme.
14. gobsmacked 14

    28 October 2011 at 8:06 pm

    Labour – good history intro, nice angle. Didn’t dodge Rogernomics either.

    Humanising Goff. Now more MPs.

    Talking heads going on a bit long, but Cunliffe looks more human than he ever has in a suit!

    Very watchable.
15. RedLogix 15

    28 October 2011 at 8:10 pm

    Excellent… a good team of Labour MP’s, plain language, strong linkages to our history and who we are as a nation, hit the big issues and most of all explained their values.

    Great start.
    • Mac1 15.1

      28 October 2011 at 11:08 pm

      Absolutely, Redlogix- values, plain speaking, and a strong, passionate, feisty, Kiwi team.
16. The Voice of Reason 16

    28 October 2011 at 8:12 pm

    Jeez this is good! If the Greens come through as well, it’s all on.
    • mickysavage 16.1

      28 October 2011 at 8:15 pm

      Aye TVOR, Labour decided to pluck the heart strings and use its historical good will.  It is really powerful.
      • The Voice of Reason 16.1.1

        28 October 2011 at 8:23 pm

        Can’t wait to see how the right spin this! What a debacle Key’s effort was and what a spirited, hip, and clever bit of work from Labour. Lets see if the Greens can come to the party as well.
        • Carol 16.1.1.1

          28 October 2011 at 8:27 pm

          Greens video is very good…. but Russel’s delivery is a bit wooden. Metiria does it better.
        • Matthew Hooton 16.1.1.2

          29 October 2011 at 8:10 am

          Happy to answer your question. National decided to put together an ad that was so bad that all viewers would switch channels. This worked, as less than 0% of the population ended up watching the Labour and Green ads. A very sophisticated strategy don’t you think?
          • Colonial Viper 16.1.1.2.1

            29 October 2011 at 8:14 am

            Probably worked for some. But hope you guys didn’t pay Saatchi or Boag actual money for this.
          • The Voice of Reason 16.1.1.2.2

            29 October 2011 at 8:34 am

            Leaving aside the levity, Matthew, did you see it before broadcast? If so, did you warn them not to go with it?
          • felix 16.1.1.2.3

            29 October 2011 at 9:00 am

            Oh Matt you’re such a hoot. I look forward to hearing you improvise that joke 3 or 4 times in the media this week.

            Seriously though, you can’t have been behind this abortion of an address. Why didn’t you stop them?
            • QoT 16.1.1.2.3.1

              29 October 2011 at 1:58 pm

              Now now, felix, abortions are generally painless and performed on willing subjects.
17. Sookie 17

    28 October 2011 at 8:14 pm

    I didn’t watch the Nats one as I didn’t want to puke but the Labour one is very good, straightforward, punchy and honest with a good range of talking heads. I hope I didn’t miss the Greens one.
18. happynz 18

    28 October 2011 at 8:18 pm

    Nice job, Labour. I really like the team approach that they are taking.
19. Galeandra 19

    28 October 2011 at 8:20 pm

    Brave innovative and refreshing attack on the materialism that has always dogged NZ.
    National will have to wriggle hard to live this down.
20. aj 20

    28 October 2011 at 8:22 pm

    I’m not suggesting this will happen, but if that didn’t swing the swing vote to labour….
21. randal 21

    28 October 2011 at 8:25 pm

    national finds it very difficult to take a team approach. for a start it is against their core belief of the primacy of the individual and secondly who wants to have phil heatley or nik smif showing their horrible phizogs all over the teevee and being on your team.
    • mickysavage 21.1

      28 October 2011 at 8:32 pm

      They have this belief that the election will be a cakewalk and Key will deliver it to them.  I think they should start thinking about a plan B, because Key’s invincibility may be wearing off …
      • Colonial Viper 21.1.1

        28 October 2011 at 10:57 pm

        Plan B for National?

        You mean like B for Bill? 😀
22. RedLogix 22

    28 October 2011 at 8:29 pm

    Greens look like they’re doing a great job too. Again plain language, and they’ve incorporated a wider cultural appeal than Labour did. No hint of the ‘beardie weirdie fringe’ image of years long gone.

    I like them both… although I suspect Labour’s one was the more effective.
23. tc 23

    28 October 2011 at 8:37 pm

    Do you hear that people….. it’s the sound of inevtivitability now let’s ensure the nats MSM mates don’t derail it.
    • mickysavage 23.1

      28 October 2011 at 8:59 pm

      Aye TC, time to take the red pill …
24. Puddleglum 24

    28 October 2011 at 9:12 pm

    It was as if National were trying to undermine their main advantage.

    They had a highly contrived event (emphasising falsity, staged questions, etc.), with Key inside (controlled, unnatural environment), at night, looking entirely passionless. I don’t think he even smiled.
    • Deadly_NZ 24.1

      29 October 2011 at 12:00 am

      He didn’t seem to even know where the cameras were, or he just couldn’t look it in the lens and lie. Maybe he had an Autoque running because he did seem a little eyes all over the show.
      • Carol 24.1.1

        29 October 2011 at 6:47 am

        Was Key sweating?… looked like it to me.
        • Colonial Viper 24.1.1.1

          29 October 2011 at 7:47 am

          Not sure actually…although he’s definitely sweating now.
25. rainman 25

    28 October 2011 at 10:51 pm

    Labour vid is Just F*cking Awesome.
    Greens wasn’t bad, but not in the same league. Nice though maybe a bit busy didn’t have the coherence of Labour’s. I’m nitpicking though: if Labour.is 10, Greens are 7 or 8. Nats probing the negative end of the number line.
    • Colonial Viper 25.1

      28 October 2011 at 10:55 pm

      NATs effort was definitely probing the rear end of the line.
26. Mac1 26

    29 October 2011 at 1:38 am

    Mrs Mac1 thinks that the National presentation, being first, was meant to ensure that no-one could bear to stay on TV1 long enough to watch Labour and the Greens.

    It’s all a cunning National plan to make politics so eye-numbingly boring that the nation switches off politics and National wins on the 10% voter turn-out of those who actually benefit from their policies. A new version of the old hippy axiom. Tune Out, Turn Off, Drop In.
    • Colonial Viper 26.1

      29 October 2011 at 7:49 am

      Possibly, and there is merit to the argument you pose. However, I just don’t think that National would risk devaluing their party’s single electable asset at this stage of the game, if they could help it. And making Key look contrived and cold does just that.
    • The Voice of Reason 26.2

      29 October 2011 at 7:57 am

      It occurred to me last night, admittedly after a couple of celebratory whiskeys, that Key doesn’t want to win this election. Being PM is too much like work and Hawaii is just soooo nice this time of year. If he falls just short of winning, he can shrug his shoulders, say meh, and mince off into the tropical sunset.
      • felix 26.2.1

        29 October 2011 at 8:10 am

        Can’t imagine Key is authorised to make that call.

        Looks to me like the work of a team who think they’ve already won and don’t have to try.

        Very dangerous to believe your own bullshit.

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