Why the left despair about NZ’s main stream media

Written By: - Date published: 9:03 am, June 24th, 2014 - 257 comments
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John Key is a phenomenally good politician.  This is not a compliment in a conventional sense.  A politician should aspire to being more than just successful.  There ought to be a public benefit arising from their stewardship.

Key is from a long line of brutal National leaders who have damaged New Zealand society.  Leaders such as Sid Holland, Rob Muldoon and Jenny Shipley.  Muldoon said once that he hoped to leave New Zealand in no worse a state than when he inherited it.  If only he had been successful in this.

There is a difference with Key however.  He is affable and obviously has a high emotional quotient level.  He can make people laugh and knows how to engage at a personal level.  This pleasant surface hides a cold ruthless calculating reality.  His years in the shark infested waters of Wall Street working for Merrill Lynch have taught him well.

The media are obviously enamoured with him.  It is clear that he has been keen to cultivate a relationship with them, free bottles of wine from his vineyard for christmas being an example.

But the media’s role is vital in a democracy.  It is up to them to report the news fearlessly and without favour and to ask the tough questions.

The Herald this morning had as its latest headline concerning the Donghua Liu matter “Liu should reveal his evidence, says Key“.  It is a positive sounding headline and suggests that he is being magnanimous.  The article contains video of an interview during which Key said the following:

  1. He refused to disclose who told him about the rumours of the donations.
  2. He said there was “plenty of discussion out there” about how Liu had donated to both National and Labour and he conceded that it was normal for donors particularly Chinese donors to give to both parties.
  3. He agreed that Liu should “put up or shut up” and said that he did not know the merits of the case.
  4. When it was pointed out that he had chosen to jump into the dispute he did not answer this but said that Cunliffe had shown a fair degree of hypocrisy and when National get donations it is cash for access but when Labour does this it is not.
  5. When asked if it was dirty tactics he said that Labour and Cunliffe had for the last six years been engaged in “gocha politics” and when they put the blowtorch on Oravida, on John Banks and on Donghua Liu “that was apparently legitimate questioning”.
  6. He then said that when Cunliffe had said he had had no involvement with Donghua Liu the record seemed to indicate that is different.

So where were the Guyon Espiner tough questions, or the Paddy Gower in your face cross examination?  The exchange was incredible.  Key was the one to publish the claim that Liu had given Labour Party over $100,000 yet seems completely indifferent to the repercussions.  He and Woodhouse had Cunliffe’s letter from so long ago and clearly attempted to set up Cunliffe with the media yet there were no questions about his role or involvement.

As for Key’s gocha statement, I am sorry but where a Minister on an overseas Ministerial trip openly supports her husband’s company, when a minister is found guilty in Court of deliberately filing a false electoral return and when a Minister is immediately sacked for interfering in a police prosecution these are not examples of “gocha politics” they are perfectly legitimate areas for an opposition to investigate further.  Members of Parliament, particularly Ministers should be held to the highest standards and this is the job of the opposition.

Key has this habit of stretching the truth virtually to breaking point and looking totally relaxed as he does this.  His claim that Cunliffe said he had no involvement with Liu is an example of his stretching the truth to the extreme.  Cunliffe has said in the past that he could not recall meeting Liu, and denied that he had advocated for Liu’s residency.  There is no proof that Cunliffe has ever met Liu although anything is possible.  And the letter did not advocate for Liu’s residency.

And the Liu issue is frustrating in the extreme.  There has been for Labour a week of attacks and negative media about a matter where there is still no credible evidence that a donation has been made.  And even if a donation was made it is clear that there was no services provided, such as the interference in a police prosecution by a Minister and I am astounded that the media do not reflect on this.

Is politics in New Zealand at such a low level that the Prime Minister can use rumours that lack any verification to attack the opposition without repercussion and the main stream media will fall dutifully in behind to repeat his claims?

257 comments on “Why the left despair about NZ’s main stream media ”

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  1. King Kong 1
    24 June 2014 at 9:11 am

    If you are going to cry about it then I suppose we should stop.

    • mickysavage 1.1
      24 June 2014 at 9:21 am

      Care to address the post?

      • King Kong 1.1.1
        24 June 2014 at 9:24 am

        I thought I did.

        Just another massive whinge about how unfair politics is when your team is on the receiving end of some (completely reasonable) press scrutiny.

        • appleboy 1.1.1.1
          24 June 2014 at 9:56 am

          Oravida? Happy there’s nothing to raise?

          Williamson? Nothing wrong?

          Key’s lies – nothing wrong, he always tells the truth?

          Who’s a blind right whinger?

        • Jackal 1.1.1.2
          24 June 2014 at 9:58 am

          Reasonable press scrutiny would include them pointing out that there has actually been nothing wrong done by Labour even if the alleged donations are uncovered. It would in the least have one of them mention the fact that this is clearly a smear campaign being orchestrated by National.

          This issue certainly doesn’t compare with the ones mentioned above. It doesn’t warrant the amount of press attention they’ve given it. It’s now over a week on the Liu/Labour drama, while they spent mere days on Maurice Williamson trying to interfere in a police investigation on behalf of the same man.

          As for Key whinging about David Cunliffe conducting ‘gotcha’ politics we only need to remember his recent love fest with Cameron Slater. The Prime Minster seems to be BFF’s with that sleaze merchant…a guy who was in court only yesterday for receiving stolen property and not wanting to tell the police who provided it to him.

          There is a stench emanating from politics at the moment and most of it is coming from the right wing.

          • Gosman 1.1.1.2.1
            24 June 2014 at 10:13 am

            Except it was Labour with Cunliffe to the fore who was attacking National over links to Mr Liu. They were implying impropriety beyond Maurice Williamson ‘ s dealings without hard evidence. Seems to me if you follow such an attack line expecting the media to do the hard yards to get the evidence you are at risk of the sort of blowback that happened.

            • Jackal 1.1.1.2.1.1
              24 June 2014 at 10:17 am

              Example of Labour implying impropriety beyond Maurice Williamson‘s dealings please?

              • grumpy …
                24 June 2014 at 10:20 am

                Mallard’s allegation in Parliament about mystery cash……

                • framu …
                  24 June 2014 at 10:47 am

                  which got him removed from the chamber – yes using privilege like this is crap – but that was the biggest punishment avail (as far as i know)

                • Jackal …
                  24 June 2014 at 11:29 am

                  Mallard makes an allegation about mystery cash and John Key starts a rumour about mystery cash…only one of these events caused the media to go troppo!

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  24 June 2014 at 4:43 pm

                  No fair putting such hard questions to Grumpy. She’s already carrying Gosman’s bags.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1.2.1.2
              24 June 2014 at 10:23 am

              That’s why Maurice resigned – there was no impropriety. That’s why Key blamed the Cabinet Manual rather than Labour.

              Sure, the flailing retaliation was inevitable; it relies on the pretence of moral equivalence between Williamson’s and Cunliffe’s action – when a child can see there is none.

              It makes a mockery of your lip-service to personal responsibility, and demonstrates that you can’t compete on policy.

              Bravo. Well played. That shit all over your face is what you get from lying in a sewer.

            • McFlock 1.1.1.2.1.3
              24 June 2014 at 1:05 pm

              They were implying impropriety beyond Maurice Williamson ‘ s dealings […]

              Lol.

              The man is clearly a murderer, m’lud, but that’s no reason to accuse him of petty vandalism as well…

      • Ronnie Chow 1.1.2
        24 June 2014 at 2:28 pm

        If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine.

  2. karol 2
    24 June 2014 at 9:17 am

    The right wingers’ ethics are on display for all to see.

    Some I talk to at work at not convinced with the whole line the Nats and the media are running. They see it for the smear campaign it is.

    The left needs to talk directly to the people.

    The media and the right wing pollies are all just talking to each other.

    • King Kong 2.1
      24 June 2014 at 9:21 am

      That’s strange. The lefties that work for me all say Cunliffe is unelectable, sneaky and incompetent.

      Anecdotes eh?

      • framu 2.1.1
        24 June 2014 at 9:24 am

        yeah – i think your making stuff up

        but how do you feel about the PM engaging in defamation of his opponent via the media?

        • King Kong 2.1.1.1
          24 June 2014 at 9:25 am

          New to politics?

          • mickysavage 2.1.1.1.1
            24 June 2014 at 9:29 am

            Care to answer the question and address the post? Do you think it right that the PM should defame his opponent through the media?

            • King Kong 2.1.1.1.1.1
              24 June 2014 at 9:46 am

              If there is any actual defaming going on you do have legal recourse.

              I suspect that you are talking about pointing out flaws in your opponent and speculating on ill conceived actions. This of course is run of the mill politics.

              Would I prefer if it was all touchy feely and just about the policy and not the man? Probably not.

              • Crunchtime …
                24 June 2014 at 10:01 am

                Yes, there is defaming. Key has constantly been trying to make Cunliffe look “tricky” and “hypocritical” while lying and being utterly hypocritical himself, and all the media does is quote Key. Completely uncritical of Key’s behaviour, making horrendous allegations then distancing himself from them.

                • The Pink Postman. …
                  24 June 2014 at 4:19 pm

                  And nobody as yet has said that our nuclear free policy is in danger.
                  US warship invite certain if the Nats are returned so how long beforte neither conform or deny is accepted.

                  • Lanthanide …
                    24 June 2014 at 6:32 pm

                    What a lot of people don’t seem to understand, is that US warships have never been banned from NZ. Only those with nuclear weapons and/or reactors are banned.

                    The US in turn has refused to “confirm or deny” if any particular ship has nuclear weapons and/or nuclear power on it, despite this information being widely available to any of their adversaries anyway.

                    The US are voluntarily not sending their ships here. It’s not a matter of us extending permission to them – they already have it.

                    Furthermore NZ is not strategic anyway.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      24 June 2014 at 7:01 pm

                      Furthermore NZ is not strategic anyway.

                      This was partially true, and only several years ago.

                      1) Our unique position allows us to monitor communications and satellites that would otherwise not be covered.

                      2) We are a friendly anglo-saxon nation in the Pacific at a time when the US feels like it has to counter China’s interests in this region.

                      3) The US Christchurch base will allow the US faster, easier access to mining in Antarctica than any of the other great powers can easily manage.

                    • Lanthanide …
                      24 June 2014 at 7:34 pm

                      I’m not sure that either 1 or 2 rule out Australia.

                      #3 seems like a very long shot, given the treaties protecting Antarctica. I guess when peak oil bites hard, we may very well see it.

              • fender …
                24 June 2014 at 10:05 am

                Yeah good one KK, lies are where it’s at. Guess it’s time to contact the Herald and tell them John Key sodomised my kitten…

              • framu …
                24 June 2014 at 10:24 am

                Defamation

                Any intentional false communication, either written or spoken, that harms a person’s reputation; decreases the respect, regard, or confidence in which a person is held; or induces disparaging, hostile, or disagreeable opinions or feelings against a person.

                key knew it was a bogus claim or he didnt bother checking – neither is good for a grown adult, let alone the fucking PM

                do you think key made the accusations he did knowing that they were true, or that he had enough info to warrant further digging? – keys own words here show that he was spreading unsubstantiated gossip for political gain and that he didnt have anything to back him up or have any actual proof

              • Bob …
                24 June 2014 at 10:30 pm

                And right there Mr Kinky Kong – you unmask yourself…yuck! Stupid AND a bit sick.

            • Bob 2.1.1.1.1.2
              24 June 2014 at 10:05 am

              Do you think it is right for Tevor Mallard, and Winston Peters to defame people in the house under parliamentary privilege and refuse to make the same comments outside of the house? At least the PM has the cahone’s to make his claims in the public domain through the media where he is liable for defamation if he is making things up….

              • framu …
                24 June 2014 at 10:15 am

                he didnt make any claim – all he did was insinuate and gossip

                thats not having balls – thats behaving like your 12

                and no – its not right to hide behind privilege – but thats just a distraction

                but how do you feel about the PM engaging in defamation of his opponent via the media?

                • Bob …
                  24 June 2014 at 11:32 am

                  Brilliant, I am sensing a theme here, “but thats just a distraction”, so when the opposition does it in a gutless way through Paliamentary privilege we turn a blind eye, when David Cunliffe does it (‘this is just a smear campaign organised by National’ while providing no proof) we turn a blind eye, John Key does it “the left despair about NZ’s main stream media”.

                  What do you think about David Cunliffe engaging in defamation of his opponent via the media?

                  • blue leopard …
                    24 June 2014 at 11:45 am

                    Bob,

                    Are you o.k about voters being misinformed prior to making their decision on who should be in government or not?
                    Do you like the idea of informed voters or not?

                    • Bob …
                      24 June 2014 at 11:58 am

                      No, I’m not, I would love the media to do their job and research every story and give a balanced view on every situation. Instead, all we get is press releases of extreme views both ways (Trade Unions, Tax Payers Union, Round Table, Greenpeace etc.) with no backround check to see if the information being released is even correct let alone asking for a retort from whoever is being singled out!
                      The media in this country has a lot to answer for, I just think it is funny when posts like this come out claiming the media is Right wing, when you go on Whaleoil or Kiwiblog and you get just as many posts claiming the media are Left wing. They are all wrong, the media is just either lazy, or have given up on real reporting to chase viewership numbers through pissing EVERYONE off.

                    • blue leopard …
                      24 June 2014 at 12:05 pm

                      Good, it is always nice to find agreement and I believe we are in pretty solid agreement over this one.

                      I wonder how this tragic situation can be changed. Any ideas?

                      There is always the internet – but that doesn’t address the people who still watch/read the media articles in question and believe them.

                      Edit: I assume you have heard of the Coalition for Better Broadcasting but in case you haven’t the link is here:
                      http://www.betterbroadcasting.co.nz/

                      Perhaps this isn’t a left/right issue and we can all unite over this one?

                      It is pretty important that when people wish to be informed there is media easily assessable where we can do just that

                    • Bob …
                      24 June 2014 at 12:16 pm

                      The only idea I have is to force them to change through their back pocket, if the media are inundated with official complaints everytime they put up a lazy, biased (either way) piece of work they might find it more profitable to change. If they end up having to spend more time responding to these complaints they may actually find it is cheaper and easier to simply do their job!
                      I am struggling to see what grounds I can complain on if they just re-post a press release though, even though this is one of the things that annoys me the most, how hard is it to make a phone call and ask for a response!!!

                      Edit: I wasn’t aware of this, thanks for the link. I really don’t think this is a left/right issue, it simply pisses us both off via different articles. I for one would love to see a balanced media come out of this whole debacle.

                    • blue leopard …
                      24 June 2014 at 12:37 pm

                      Perhaps if you go to right-wing blogsites you might share that link with them too?

                      Thanks for the suggestion, that is a good idea.

                      I relate with what you say re ‘grounds on what to complain’ – I just recently complained over a matter of inaccurate reporting on a News program, and so am slightly familiar with the rules they have, and I too am a bit puzzled as to what grounds one can complain.

                      It appears that some of the rules make it so they can easily cancel out a complaint (i.e you suggest it is biased and yet if they play something at another date that ‘balances’ it out then this is enough for them to reject your claim).
                      With my complaint they were pretty keen to put it in the ‘expressing an opinion’ category (which allows them to deflect from/ negate the criticism of the ‘opinion’ expressed).

                      Also having just spent time about a week ago reading (on the BSA website) some of the outcomes to previous complaints there seem a remarkable number that are not upheld….(some, of course rightly so – some are pretty pedantic!)

                      However I believe you are suggesting that it doesn’t matter about the outcome – simply keep them busy and spending their money on that might get them to change their ways – not a bad idea I reckon – at least worth a try!

                      It would be brilliant if left and right wing citizens united over this and ‘turned’ on the media – its time that something was done about it.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      24 June 2014 at 1:58 pm

                      Bob, your naivety is charming, really. Or insincere.

                      On Earth, the National Party will describe any attempt to improve media behaviour as a left wing attack on democracy and press freedom.

                    • blue leopard …
                      24 June 2014 at 2:29 pm

                      @ OAB,

                      Sure that may be the attack, however does that mean that it can’t be addressed?
                      No

                      a. If enough people have noticed there is a serious problem – such attacks won’t go down very well.

                      b. If you know the attack beforehand there can be a strategy devised to deal with it.

                      I agree that it is a sensitive issue but what is going on now is an attack on democracy – this is a reason for why there is serious need of improvement – not for why it shouldn’t be addressed!

                      Not addressing this serious problem because you are afraid of the attacks that are likely to occur isn’t actually much of a response – how about coming up with how to deal with such attacks instead?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      24 June 2014 at 4:30 pm

                      Blue, then Bob has a prob: he openly supports these low life scum, and exhibits no shame, let alone personal responsibility.

                      Watch him side with them when push comes to shove.

                      How do you suppose the media got that way in the first place?

                  • framu …
                    24 June 2014 at 1:53 pm

                    a theme of you righties not being able to tell the difference between things? – yes ive noticed that too

              • dimebag russell …
                24 June 2014 at 11:19 am

                only morans spell cojones as cahones.

          • framu 2.1.1.1.2
            24 June 2014 at 10:13 am

            new to morals and ethics?

            but how do you feel about the PM engaging in defamation of his opponent via the media?

            answer the question

      • Anne 2.1.2
        24 June 2014 at 9:31 am

        The lefties that work for me….

        I guess they know which side of the bread is buttered. They wanna keep their jobs.

        • ianmac 2.1.2.1
          24 June 2014 at 10:08 am

          Would you believe me if I told you that all of the Righties who work for me are switching their vote to Labour or Greens because they are fed up with Key’s dishonesty? Every one of them!

      • Bearded Git 2.1.3
        24 June 2014 at 9:33 am

        KK-perhaps you should look at Cunliffe’s interview last Sunday on Q and A where he was superb. Charming, intelligent, honest, and sounding like someone who had the interests of all NZ’s at heart.

        On the other hand Key has lied continuously through his five and half years, either blatantly, through numerous convenient brain fades, by omission or by (as the post above says) stretching the truth to breaking point. And he certainly doesn’t have the interests of all NZ’s at heart.

        I believe this will come through in the election debates if Key fronts face to face with Cunliffe-don’t put your house on Key turning up.

        • King Kong 2.1.3.1
          24 June 2014 at 9:48 am

          I think this may be a case of beauty being in the eye of the beholder.

        • David H 2.1.3.2
          25 June 2014 at 7:29 am

          That was when he could get a word in side ways, from the bullshit Wood was spouting trying to keep the story on the liu bullshit and not the policies that Labour want to promote. I think this could be the way they kill Labours policy announcements with crap.

          Edit: But if you read the Granny I usually prefer to read the comments that are scathing of the writer, and TricKeys lies. I also link to Blips list every time I can, but they usually don’t publish those comments. But I’ll keep trying.

      • The Pink Postman. 2.1.4
        24 June 2014 at 4:29 pm

        Interesting that you know your workers politics. I would like to know if your workers are unionised. Or do you only offer a job if they do not join the union.
        Anyway no worker is going to express their political beliefs to a rabid Right-Winger like you in a time of unemployment like we have under your government,

      • dimebag russell 2.1.5
        24 June 2014 at 6:41 pm

        king king you are just a f*cking liar.
        nobody in their right mind would work for someone like you.

    • mpledger 2.2
      24 June 2014 at 11:28 am

      I agree – let the nats and the msm playing their own little games together – remove Labour from it an get them talking to the people directly.

  3. Colonial Viper 3
    24 June 2014 at 9:26 am

    Hi MS, I suggest a minor round of editing of this great piece, and then submission to the NZ Herald as an op-ed.

    • King Kong 3.1
      24 June 2014 at 9:29 am

      Maybe they could title it “you guys are really mean!”

    • swordfish 3.2
      24 June 2014 at 10:24 am

      Yep, CV, this is a very succinct and incisive post by Mickey.

      The idea of a proud, independent Fourth Estate fearlessly holding those in power to account has become utterly corrupted and debased. While it’s true that privately-owned media have always favoured the Right, they’ve become noticeably more aggressively-partisan over recent years (arguably from before the 2005 Election, but particularly after Key took the leadership off Brash) and have now reached an absolute nadir.

      In fact, you could almost say the MSM have transformed into the public wing of the National Party comms unit.

      It’s not that they don’t cover scandals like the Oravida/Te Kohanga reo/Williamson sagas but they do so with a lot less aggression and enthusiasm and only after robust evidence is available and obvious. With Labour and Cunliffe, they’re happy to attack in the most over-the-top way on the scantiest of pretexts. See my outline of John Armstrong’s contrasting approach to Key and Cunliffe…http://thestandard.org.nz/the-anatomy-of-a-smear-campaign/#comment-834898

      It’s all very 80/20 – overwhelmingly negative and aggressive towards Labour and the Left Bloc as a whole, occasionally critical of National within very circumscribed parameters.

  4. travellerev 4
    24 June 2014 at 9:28 am

    Key (no pun intended) words in understanding the Smear Campaign mayhem are Malignant Narcissism and Flying Monkeys.

    • blue leopard 4.1
      24 June 2014 at 11:54 am

      This article is well worth the read

      • mike 4.1.1
        24 June 2014 at 4:41 pm

        Yes it is. How I despise the Psychopath Key. Hiding behind the pretend bovine eyes is a monster, prepared to endlessly lie and deceive for an international political agenda that is destroying the West.

        NZ is one of the last western democracies left that still has a decent and fair society. God help us if this cuckoo in the nest gets another term as PM. NZ does not deserve this.

        • mike 4.1.1.1
          24 June 2014 at 7:20 pm

          The people of the world becoming aware.

          The young bloke with the beanie fills me with hope. His integrity obvious for all to see.

          http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/awakening-in-germany-must-watch.

            • blue leopard 4.1.1.1.1.1
              24 June 2014 at 10:49 pm

              Thanks for the link Mike,

              Despite now being on an expensive and limited wifi connection (can’t get cheaper version where I am) I decided to watch it and it was well worth it; it was very interesting. Good to see what is happening in the world and amazing how the media twists what is going on. Germany seems like a very switched on Nation to me – somehow they seem more politically aware – this impression is based on the German people I meet here in NZ I guess there are plenty in Germany who aren’t that way – yet that video gave me that impression that there is a lot of political awareness in Germany too!

              +1 to your 4.1.1 comment, thoroughly agree and well said.

              • Once was Tim …
                25 June 2014 at 1:11 am

                FYI … Check out the latest Keiser Report

                • blue leopard …
                  25 June 2014 at 11:11 am

                  Aww I can’t afford to watch an hour long (or is it half hour long) program. What did it cover?

                  • Once was Tim …
                    26 June 2014 at 7:53 am

                    Interview in the second half with the guy from “We are Change”
                    Approx 15 mins.
                    I understand your predicament with the digital divide.

  5. Ant 5
    24 June 2014 at 9:28 am

    It does seem like a pretty impossible task to counter those kinds of stories when you are playing by a different set of rules.

    But it’s not just that. The media have National’s back, but National’s messaging and engagement with the media is far more sophisticated than Labour. Key is clever, but the team supporting him is obviously far better across the board and has greater resources than Labour. Key’s talking points are better crafted, and he works with much more accurate polling information than David Cunliffe can access. They know when to run, hide, and fight. Labour has been woefully inadequate in comparison.

    If this election doesn’t go well, one focus of Labour should be actually building up a decent support team for the leader. As demonstrated for the last 6 years, the current team(s) just don’t operate in the same league as National.

    They might be well meaning, their hearts might be in the right place, but across the board they consistently under perform.

    • BM 5.1
      24 June 2014 at 9:38 am

      National is a professional team, while labour is a amateur outfit.
      It’s like a super 15 team playing against a NPC team, no contest

      That’s the crux of the issue.

      • mickysavage 5.1.1
        24 June 2014 at 9:51 am

        Actually it is closer to the referee refusing to call offsides and not pulling out the yellow card when sin binning offences occur repeatedly. FFS the media is meant to get to the truth on issues not unquestionably accepting one side’s spin.

        • BM 5.1.1.1
          24 June 2014 at 9:58 am

          So, you don’t think National has had any bad press over the last 3 years?
          No times where National has ever copped it unfairly from the media.

          It happens, you’ve got to suck it up and get on with it.

          This Liu incident though, I get the feeling the media thinks there’s more to go and are shaking the tree to see what falls out.

        • Jackal 5.1.1.2
          24 June 2014 at 10:15 am

          I put it down to laziness really. It’s too much work to do a proper investigative piece when deadlines are looming and turn arounds are tight. Basically it’s whatever will grab the most attention without getting them sued seems to be the mantra of today’s media.

          There’s lot’s of instances where Key’s team has stuffed up. The way they failed to properly cooperate with the investigation into the leaking of the GCSB report being a prime example. So I wouldn’t buy into this whole ‘Key’s team is all professional’ rubbish.

          Such instances of Key’s team being entirely incompetent, or worse yet ignoring due process to protect their leader, just don’t compare to David Cunliffe’s team not finding an 11 year-old-letter because it was filed incorrectly.

          A badly devised and executed smear campaign that many right winger’s are starting to question.

          • Ant 5.1.1.2.1
            24 June 2014 at 10:27 am

            That’s rubbish, it was a freaking excellent smear campaign, it might be unraveling now but the damage is already done to David Cunliffe. The people National wanted to convince will never hear about how baseless it was.

            • Jackal 5.1.1.2.1.1
              24 June 2014 at 11:33 am

              It was an excellent smear campaign? Really! How many people actually believed it?

              • Lanthanide …
                24 June 2014 at 6:52 pm

                Er, a huge number of the voting public who just see John Key calling Cunliffe dodgy or tricky and internalise it as truth without any further questioning because John Key said it.

                You really have to realise, the 2% of the population that comment on political blogs really do not represent the typical NZ voter at all.

          • Lloyd 5.1.1.2.2
            24 June 2014 at 10:55 am

            Does this mean that the way for the left to get a balanced reporting is to sue every news organisation that suggests something incorrect about left politicians?

            • Jackal 5.1.1.2.2.1
              24 June 2014 at 11:32 am

              Only where there’s clearly a case of defamation and probably not a good look during an election campaign. They wouldn’t want to appear to be like Collin Craig or Judith Collins, so some excellent legal advice for an airtight case would be appropriate.

        • Gosman 5.1.1.3
          24 June 2014 at 10:17 am

          You play to the ref. There is a non commercial state owned media outlet that also reported on this issue. Why are they so biased against Labour do you think?

          • framu 5.1.1.3.1
            24 June 2014 at 10:51 am

            are you happy with an MSM that cant do political reporting correctly

            forget who you vote for – if we have an MSM that is more interested in polls, gossip and gotcha politics is this good or bad for the electorate?

            • Gosman 5.1.1.3.1.1
              24 June 2014 at 11:36 am

              I enjoy all aspects of politics even this sort of stuff. As stated above this all started because Labour decided to go after National ‘ s supposed close links with potentially dodgy Chinese business people. The reason they did so was because they saw a weakness they could exploit after their hits on Collins and Williamson. Unfortunately Labour didn’t have anything concrete to hit National with so was expecting the media to dig up the dirt. This opened up an opportunity for blowback though and this is what happened. The media largely reported the situation as it occurred. Why would anyone have a problem with that unless you are trying to always spin things your way.

              • Jackal …
                24 June 2014 at 11:43 am

                National‘s supposed close links with potentially dodgy Chinese business people? Donghua Liu is dodgy and National, particularly Maurice Williamson and Michael Woodhouse, have close links with him.

                What planet are you on when you claim this is just a potential or supposed thing? Planet Key sure needs some toilets so that you can relieve yourself of the excrement coming out your mouth Gosman!

                • David H …
                  25 June 2014 at 7:45 am

                  @Jackal And don’t forget there’s another Bill Liu donating to the Nats as well so they can muddy the waters that way as well. Also every time that Labour release policy I foresee a wave of bullshit and innuendo, everytime the policy announcements come out. Because the Natsd know they have nothing to offer the voters except CHCH and milk stuff.

              • framu …
                24 June 2014 at 12:23 pm

                ” The reason they did so was because they saw a weakness they could exploit after their hits on Collins and Williamson”

                which story or allegation are you referring to and explain how if there is one its the same as the PM feeding the press gossip that he cant back up

                i think we can all accept that theres a certain amount of low blows fired from all parties – but your sticking up for not just the PM being a 12 year old little gossipy prick, but also the media failing to do their job.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                24 June 2014 at 1:26 pm

                Bollocks Gosman. Liu only looks bad because of his links with Williamson. The Left criticised Williamson for interfering in a police investigation, and National because it sells access to Ministers.

                If not, you will certainly be able to provide a link to someone from Labour criticising National links to “dodgy Chinese business people”, or risk strengthening the perception that you can’t do logic for love nor money.

  6. Marg 6
    24 June 2014 at 9:35 am

    How will these changes improve the news do you think? Russell Brown gives a quick overview of proposed changes http://publicaddress.net/hardnews/radio-new-zealand-changing-the-channel/

  7. Blue 7
    24 June 2014 at 9:43 am

    The Herald has had over a week now to substantiate their bullshit tirade against Labour and they still haven’t managed to prove even one single thing they have alleged.

    • they haven’t proved David Cunliffe met Donghua Liu
    • they haven’t proved David Cunliffe advocated for Donghua Liu
    • they haven’t proved that Donghua Liu donated money to Labour
    • they haven’t proved that Donghua Liu was given special treatment by Labour in return for donations

    Of course, it’s usual practice that you substantiate a serious allegation before you publish it, but the Herald hasn’t even managed to do so post-publication.

    But with National, it’s different.

    • it is known that Donghua Liu was given special treatment by National
    • it is known that Donghua Liu donated at least $22,000 to National
    • the National Party president refused to confirm if Liu donated any more

    And my bet is the Herald will accept that. That National does not have to front up on any further Liu donations, while Labour has to trawl through their records endlessly. David Cunliffe gets it in the neck for something that allegedly happened seven years ago but no one can find any trace of. John Key gets to skate along smirking and being vague and saying it’s all someone else’s problem.

    • appleboy 7.1
      24 June 2014 at 9:58 am

      Where’s BM and King Kong the bull shitters to reply on your excellent post.

      • Gosman 7.1.1
        24 June 2014 at 10:18 am

        There is really nothing new in that post to respond to that hasn’t already been stated.

        • framu 7.1.1.1
          24 June 2014 at 10:27 am

          There is really nothing new in your diversion tactics to respond to that hasn’t already been used.

      • David H 7.1.2
        25 June 2014 at 7:52 am

        @appleboy. Bullshit Man is probably feeding the monkey his next lines, and a banana for being such a good monkey.

    • travellerev 7.2
      24 June 2014 at 9:59 am

      I think we can safely make the case that if we judge the kind of smearing perpetrated by the Herald and other MSM by the same standards as Cameron Slater we would not be able to claim we had a professional fourth estate in this country

    • greywarbler 7.3
      24 June 2014 at 10:06 am

      @Blue
      It’s interesting the extensive coverage of Liu and his damn wine-whine has had as it shows up on Google. And of course Whaleoil oozing all over it.
      In the last 24 hours listings –

      Prime minister’s lips sealed on Liu leaker
      Stuff.co.nz‎ – 45 minutes ago

      Liu’s $100k wine news to Rick Barker
      New Zealand Herald ‎- 17 hours ago
      The Labour Cabinet minister who handed over a bottle of wine to Donghua Liu’s partner at a … New Zealand Herald. … Liu said he would not make any further comments about political donations or swear an affidavit outlining dollar amounts.

      There are –
      3 Herald items.
      2 Stuff
      2 TVnz
      2 Tv3
      1 NZnewsYahoo
      1 kiwiblog

      Then another 5 listings on another page including Radionz –

      RNZ summary – Labour Party releases list of candidates
      Radio New Zealand-19 hours ago
      The New Zealand Herald says it has a signed statement from Mr Liu which says he paid $100,000 for a bottle of wine signed by Helen Clark in 2007. … The party says the donation claims have demanded media time, which delayed the list …

      And the usual spin from –
      Donghua Liu Archives – Whale Oil Beef Hooked | Whaleoil …
      http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/tag/donghua-liu/
      13 hours ago – Politicians in New Zealand need to understand that paying politicians in the Mainland to … When Donghua Liu paid $100,000 for that bottle of wine or book with Helen … It’s also entirely feasible that the Liu donations to Labour were funnelled …

    • ianmac 7.4
      24 June 2014 at 10:12 am

      Too True Blue. And that alleged gift of $150,000 to Labour is supposed to be the same for National. Show me the money National!

    • Tom Gould 7.6
      24 June 2014 at 12:45 pm

      The National Herald is corrupt in journalistic terms. They make Fox look ‘fair and balanced’. Folks just need to approach it for what it is, a National Party daily newsletter and part of the Tory sleaze machine.

    • David H 7.7
      25 June 2014 at 7:50 am

      The Herald don’t care the fix is in, and the Smear campaign will happen everytime Labour release policy or start to rise in the polls wait for the smears to get desperate and hysterical. Me I’m waiting for the Debates.

  8. hoom 8
    24 June 2014 at 9:44 am

    Key & the Nats looking more ‘Tricky’ on this than Cunliffe did at the worst of it.

  9. TeWhareWhero 9
    24 June 2014 at 9:49 am

    We live in a world in which appearance rules. People have been conned into thinking that what something looks on the surface is an accurate measure of its essential worth. Key is the political equivalent of a useless object made by sweated labour, wrapped up in a huge glossy package with a big glittery bow.

    The airheads have triumphed – and what a glorious world they and their economic masters have bequeathed to future generations.

  10. John Chapman 10
    24 June 2014 at 9:57 am

    There is only one way out of this for Labour and that is to make a complaint to the Press Council regarding the Herald’s publication of the Liu allegations and put a marker down that the allegations are in fact untrue. Otherwise the mud will stick and we will lose. We can chat amongst ourselves about how ill served we are by our media until the next election, but unless an effective refutation is made its game over..

    • One Anonymous Bloke 10.1
      24 June 2014 at 10:08 am

      If there is to be a formal complaint it must not come from Labour.

      Refutation is pointless, facts merely harden false beliefs, cf. Nyhan & Reifler and a host of other studies that document this phenomenon.

      The right know they haven’t got a shit-show of winning on policy: their only hope was always going to be the referee, and you’re wrong: the game is far from over.

    • mickysavage 10.2
      24 June 2014 at 10:11 am

      It would take far too long and the worry is the instantaneous impression that is being manufactured.

      • weka 10.2.1
        24 June 2014 at 10:28 am

        I don’t think timeframes should put us off. This is serious beyond this election. I agree it shouldn’t come from Labour, but what about a blogosphere/social media wide campaign?

        Remember Bill’s post about Gower?

        http://thestandard.org.nz/well-done-paddy/

        A clear, concise piece on how to make a complaint about the Herald, what the points are, what the process is, posted on ts and asking other blogs etc to pick it up? Maybe somewhere to collate/report responses?

        Despair yes, but it’s time to push back.

        btw micky, kia kaha mate. You guys so don’t deserve this.

    • ffloyd 10.3
      24 June 2014 at 1:15 pm

      The thing is that the herald did not allege anything. They printed everything as fact. Armstrong straight in with ‘Cunliffe MUST RESIGN’ backed up by nothing but innuendo and unsubstantiated hearsay. Initiating from that little man masquerading as an ‘honourable prime minister .’ He who has said he will be VERY SURPRISED!!!! if donations to the tune of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS were not found to have been donated to Labour. Well I wonder if he is surprised that nothing has been found, or if he is still trying to manufacture some evidence to show him to be right. And as usual his source appears to be his backside. Farting crap as usual.

      • newsense 10.3.1
        24 June 2014 at 7:59 pm

        It did rather seem that the Herald was a cog in the wheel of the smear machine which we already knows may include: Glucina, Whaleoil and Ede. So more members of the N team is not surprising.

  11. Lefty 11
    24 June 2014 at 9:59 am

    The domination of the media by the right is nothing new.

    The big question is why don’t the left do anything about it when they are in government?

    I know they can’t control the privately owned media but their are still significant publicly owned media outlets that could be used to set better standards.

    It would require admitting all this state owned enterprise bollocks about having to get a financial return from publicly owned assets is a mistake, scrapping them and developing different models and criteria for success though.

    Not likely from any of the neo liberal social democrat parties.

    They prefer to moan about things they lack the courage to change.

    • Tom Jackson 11.1
      24 June 2014 at 10:23 am

      I don’t know. I have never seen it this bad or this obvious in my life.

      • Lefty 11.1.1
        24 June 2014 at 2:31 pm

        Bill Rowling was treated worse when he opposed Muldoon than Cunliffe is at present so I don’t think it is necessarily worse. In fact it easier to establish an alternative narrative now than it has ever been.

      • David H 11.1.2
        25 June 2014 at 7:59 am

        @Tom Jackson Forget the rubbish ‘stories’. Read the comments they are a way better way to judge the feelings of the readers (I have noticed that they are not having as many ‘stories with them, or they close the debate early) and they are mainly scathing of the Granny’s jonolists.

  12. fisiani 12
    24 June 2014 at 10:06 am

    Each day passes and people are talking more about the extra 84,000 people who have gained jobs in the last year. This Liu business just taints Labour as dodgy and incompetent. So no change. It will not lose or gain them a vote. It simply sucks more oxygen from their campaign and lackluster list. You ain’t seen nothing yet.Each week there will be a scandal or stupid policy exposed.
    A Labour/Greens/NZF/InternetMana win would be disastrous for New Zealand which would be plunged into reverse gear. It could happen if something unexpected happens in the last48 hours. I rate it thought about a 20% possibility. 87 days to go.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 12.1
      24 June 2014 at 10:15 am

      🙄

      Another fire-and-forget distraction.

    • Lloyd 12.2
      24 June 2014 at 11:03 am

      Neo-liberal policies are so reverse gear.

      If you want an example of how successful neo-liberal policies are just look to that wonderful country, Iraq, where EVERYTHING was privatised within 100 days of the USA ousting Saddam.

    • NickS 12.3
      24 June 2014 at 1:04 pm

      All through the rebuild and it’s knock on effects, rather than government policy.

      Meanwhile manufacturing is down due to a continued high NZ dollar, while dairy is running into fun with lower milk solids prices and the property bubble is still sucking money out of the national economy with higher mortgage repayments, thus lowering disposable income.

      While increased child poverty under National is busy causing long term problems and funding for rape crises centres has become scarce despite an up-tick in use.

      But hey, why bother with reality when you can lie your arse off?

      And still waiting fisi: http://www.thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-21062014/#comment-835915

    • David H 12.4
      25 June 2014 at 8:03 am

      King Dong and co disappear and in comes Fizzy. It’s tag team Trollss today.

  13. thecard 13
    24 June 2014 at 10:10 am

    Brilliant satire Mickey, even Scott Yorke would struggle to come up with anything better.

  14. Linz 14
    24 June 2014 at 10:13 am

    Despair is the right word to use. We are in desperate times because so much is at stake. It’s not a game, it’s not sport, although some of the folks leaving comments here seem to get puerile glee from the point-scoring argy bargy. Unless there is a huge change in public opinion, New Zealanders are on the point of making the worst electoral decisions they have made ever. Worse than they did when they elected and re-elected Muldoon. Just as history has shown Muldoon for what he was, history will show Key for what he is, but the damage he will have done by then will take generations to undo, if indeed it can be undone. I despair. I can remember saying in 1978, “I’ll willingly eat shit on the side of the road, if the shits who voted for Muldoon are there eating it with me.” I’m an old woman now, and I can no longer find consolation in anger. All I feel is desperation and profound sadness.

    • Jackal 14.1
      24 June 2014 at 12:41 pm

      Demoralization has been one of the core goals of this right wing government. National’s propaganda is specifically designed to try and make people believe their environmental or socially beneficial causes are unachievable.

      If they cannot divide and rule they will do their best to demoralize and persecute anybody who dares speak out. They will pretty much do anything to undermine activists who fight back against the status quo.

      I suspect you’re justifiably feeling despondent about this sad state of affairs because of that reason and the mindset of those currently in power.

      Unfortunately the left feel a loss of moral even more than the right. That’s because we hold our leaders to higher standards and require accountability when things go wrong.

      However we need to keep in mind that things will be a hell of a lot worse if National gets a third term. That alone should be enough to galvanize the left into doing what it takes to save New Zealand from the neoliberal ideology that is causing all the damage.

    • Marg 14.2
      24 June 2014 at 1:21 pm

      +1 linz, I really identify with what you are saying, a dismal affair!

  15. Ad 15
    24 June 2014 at 10:14 am

    One of the secrets to Key is behind him in the form of Eagleson and Ede.
    Clark had the combination of Mike Munro and Heather Simpson. Cunliffe needs that same magic combination in his office – better than it’s been but needs improving.

    I can understand Mickey’s frustration (and my personal political gloom) but it amounts to complaining about getting your ass kicked all over the park. Better to stop getting you ass getting kicked all over the park.

    Hunger for Labour’s content is what Labour’s leadership need to build. They cannot run an effective attack – or we would have seen a good scalp over the last six years. They need to stop what they are bad at.

    Firstly they should focus only on building hunger for content. Building hunger for Labour’s content is done through ensuring that thired sector and NGOs start debating the need for x policy, then after a few weeks you launch it. Textbook was Labour’s housing policy. Good work, and well supported by Twyford. Labour can learn the lessons of its few successes.

    Secondly journalists have careers that need feeding – so Labour’s office should choose well the ones they want to feed stories, promote, and turn into stars. Many MSM leaders are hungry for the full-fat content debates. Content and well orchestrated policy announcements that respond to public demand are the only way of decreasing the importance of the ‘gotcha’ journalists and increasing the status of the ‘content-hungry’ ones.

    This can be done – not sure if it can be done in time, but it’s been done before and it plays to Labour’s strengths.

    • Tom Jackson 15.1
      24 June 2014 at 10:31 am

      This won’t help at all.

      It has been plainly evident since Cunliffe was elected leader as a person who had been saying what are by recent standards very left wing things, that the right would do anything to prevent him from being elected Prime Minister.

      I’m finding it hard to recall a week in which there hasn’t been a ridiculous hit piece on TV3 news about Cunliffe, and it’s been echoed in most other media outlets. TV One news hasn’t been as bad, but they’ve often followed along. It reached the point of absurdity long ago.

      Were Labour to get rid of Cunliffe and elect a more right wing leader, or if Shane Jones had won instead of Cunliffe, we wouldn’t be hearing any of this stuff.

      The answer to this is that next time Labour is elected, they should go after the media. Legislation breaking up large media companies should be a priority. Watch them scream.

      • Ad 15.1.1
        24 June 2014 at 10:48 am

        Attacking the media is the most naive and flat dumbest political advice I have ever heard.

        The hit pieces have been largely about Cunliffe’s klutzy managerial problems. Only he can deal with those. He has to earn their respect like it or not. Journalists are not elected and will most of them be around long after he’s Prime Minister indeed long after he’s retired. They owe him nothing – not even the truth or neutrality.

        Labour’s recent fundraising and managerial problems would also have been around with Jones – and don’t be fooled into thinking it’s some vast right-wing monetarist conspiracy colouring journalists’ coverage. That’s simply another excuse for getting one’s ass kicked across the park.

        Weeping and blaming and looking for the ref is what losers in politics do. This is a no-ref sport, largely. Labour has to learn how to win the MSM back.

        Labour needs to figure out what its’ strengths are and play to those. The answer is in good policy with strong NGO partners shifting the debate through specifically briefed journalists, over many weeks.

        • mickysavage 15.1.1.1
          24 June 2014 at 10:58 am

          Yeah but we are in the middle of a manufactured crisis and there still is no evidence about it. How is a manager meant to handle this?

          • Ant 15.1.1.1.1
            24 June 2014 at 11:11 am

            Better than it has been handled, Labour’s message has really only got good in the last few days. Specifically: “John Key’s Minister interfering in DOMESTIC VIOLENCE investigation”, say that 10 times over, and then say it again. Digging in and fighting it was the right decision, but they needed the good talking points a lot quicker than they got them.

            The first few days were all over the place. Even having to fluff around on having the support of Caucus.

            Also, Ad has excellent points, it’s essentially what National has been doing with seeded problems in the media, then establishing commissions or what not, and then shoving through whatever they wanted to in the first place because the narrative has been set and followed through on.

            It’s a method for progressive social democratic parties to be progressive without leaving the public behind in the conversation, which has often happened in the past.

          • veutoviper 15.1.1.1.2
            24 June 2014 at 11:18 am

            MS, Are you at work? You have an email.

        • BM 15.1.1.2
          24 June 2014 at 11:00 am

          This.

          Cunliffe had to be able to demonstrate he can lead the country and he’s failed dismally, it’s just been cock up after cock up and he’s been justifiably crucified.

          No one wants Cunlife as the PM of NZ, he just hasn’t got what it takes.

          • Jackal 15.1.1.2.1
            24 June 2014 at 12:44 pm

            Your grandiose statements are getting a bit lame there BM.

            • john 15.1.1.2.1.1
              24 June 2014 at 1:34 pm

              Then how do you explain polls that have Labour on 30%, but Cunliffe on just 11% as preferred PM?

              Two out of three labour voters don’t even want him.

              He’s simply not PM material.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                24 June 2014 at 1:38 pm

                Like a sewer parrot, John spends his time searching through other people’s effluent looking for remarks to pass off as his own work.

                Polly wanna cracker?

                • john …
                  24 June 2014 at 1:47 pm

                  Obviously a question you are unable to answer.

                  It takes a lot less brainpower to be a stuck record.

                  The question was “Then how do you explain polls that have Labour on 30%, but Cunliffe on just 11% as preferred PM?”

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    24 June 2014 at 1:54 pm

                    What’s wrong with the answers that were provided to the person who asked the question originally, John?

          • Ad 15.1.1.2.2
            24 June 2014 at 2:23 pm

            I need no convincing that David Cunliffe would be a superior Prime Minister to John Key. Most of all because only Cunliffe has the capacity to corral whole policy realms that will improve New Zealand over the long term. Key understands the next thing; Cunliffe understands the whole thing.

            Key certainly has the political courage to lead specific policy, and forecasts it well before the election, such as the asset sale debacle. It’s simply the wrong policy.

            Labour’s competitive advantage will always be that it stands for unifying positive change with the policy credentials to achieve it.

            Cunliffe’s defences after the media mess are honest and straightforward. But they will not turn the public mood.

            What will turn the public mood is new policy stories, which are grounded in the lives of New Zealanders and the thousands of Trusts and NGOs and data projections that appear regularly as news cycles, and seek to lengthen the lives of those policy-focussed stories for as long as possible. Alerting their friends in the progressive groups so that the media ground can be sown is somewhat missing. But that is what Labour should adopt as a media strategy – and as I noted they can do it, with a favourable wind and an awkward pole-vaulting action. They also need some luck.

        • Tom Jackson 15.1.1.3
          24 June 2014 at 1:05 pm

          This is a no-ref sport.

          Oh dear, not another political ITG.

          zzz

        • Colonial Viper 15.1.1.4
          25 June 2014 at 8:09 am

          Attacking the media is the most naive and flat dumbest political advice I have ever heard.

          NB breaking up corporate media and setting new standards and public media institutions maybe considered “attacking the media” but it could also be considered “establishing good journalism.”

          If it doesn’t happen, you can can expect about 50 influential people in and around the media to be able to hold elected political parties to hostage over what is and what is not, acceptable public policy.

          • Ad 15.1.1.4.1
            25 June 2014 at 9:01 am

            They already do, they are more powerful than the democratic order, and nothing will ever break their power because democracy and media are utterly and permanently codependent.

  16. ianmac 16
    24 June 2014 at 10:17 am

    Remember when the video showing Mr Key visiting the GCSB and talking about Kim Dotcom, but the video failed to materialise. The media and National gave Shearer hell because it failed to be available. Now Mr Liu’s money failed to materialise and Key, the one who lit the match, is untouched by the media.

    • Gosman 16.1
      24 June 2014 at 10:33 am

      What was the general reaction of the left to the media reporting that allegation over the reported video? Was it that they should never have run with the story in the first place?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1.1
        24 June 2014 at 10:46 am

        RedLogix described it as Shearer having fallen into an “elementary trap”, Sash opined that “Shearer looks bad” and speculated whether Fran Mold was working for the National Party. Anthony Robins on the other hand thought that the public would believe Shearer over Key.

        The left doesn’t do “general reactions”, Gosman: broad church, remember? You’re projecting values from the Echo Chamber.

        • Gosman 16.1.1.1
          24 June 2014 at 11:12 am

          No. I asked what was the lefts general reaction to the media running the story in the first place. As far as I can see there was no view that the media shouldn’t have run the story. Just that Shearer might well have handled it better. John Key has handled this situation better because he didn’t imply something existed. He just stated that he had heard there was more to come out. That was entirely accurate.

          • framu 16.1.1.1.1
            24 June 2014 at 11:34 am

            did the press base an entire, multi day story on the video without first checking any provable facts or without highlighting that it was unproven assertion, and then refuse to own their mistakes when shown to have not done proper process first?

            pretty sure that was “theres a video?” – “cool lets go looking for it”
            not “someone said theres a video!” – “therefore theres a video”

          • Bob 16.1.1.1.2
            24 June 2014 at 11:49 am

            Give up Gosman, you can give them a dozen examples of their own hypocracy and they still won’t see it. I mean this post comes four days after David Cunliffe goes on The Nation and states the whole Liu situation is just a smear campaign by National with no proof at all, this is run on Stuff, NZ Herald, TVNZ, TV3, Radio NZ, Newstalk ZB, even the Daily Mail picked it up, no calls for the media to research before they print things over this situation though is there.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1.1.1.2.1
              24 June 2014 at 12:18 pm

              The last thing Gosman needs is your witless flailing.

              Hypocrisy, you embody it: now take personal responsibility and learn to spell it.

            • framu 16.1.1.1.2.2
              24 June 2014 at 12:25 pm

              the thing is bob – neither of yours or gossmans examples actually prove what you want them to. Each time someone points out why in their opinion your wrong… yet you dont take the chance given to prove yourself right

          • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1.1.1.3
            24 June 2014 at 12:23 pm

            What Framu said: the media reported Shearers accusation as an accusation and Key’s as fact.

            Apples, meet oranges. In any case, if the best you can do in answer to a story of media incompetence is to point out that they do it all the time I don’t think you’re doing them any favours.

    • Ant 16.2
      24 June 2014 at 11:43 am

      Key has been careful to distance himself, and just chucks in dispassionate seeming comments along the lines of “it’s not a good look”, “its hypocritical”. Labour has always been way too desperate for the king hit that will bring down John Key in one shot, their leaders always get too deep into it.

      Key is happy for a death by 1000 cuts scenario, to take down Labour through letting a negative narrative develop. It looks to be working a lot better.

      It is part of a intentional positioning of Key for maximum effect and minimum exposure, it’s fricking galling that after this long people inside Labour still haven’t clicked on to it.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 16.2.1
        24 June 2014 at 12:27 pm

        Or perhaps the reason people on the Left can’t think this way is because we tend not to have the distended amygdala handicap and other bugs features of the right wing brain.

  17. phillip ure 17
    24 June 2014 at 10:36 am

    (excuse the double-posting..this is in openmike..but fits here..

    ..and to my mind..could not be a clearer example of the inattention/incompetence of most of the mainstream-media..)

    the only comment i have heard re promises from national re their plans for a third-term..

    ..was english ..promising ‘the most serious shake-up of state spending..in the last 50 yrs’..

    ..(and if that doesn’t make yr blood run fucken cold..i dunno what wd..?..)

    ..and i have watched/waited for those ‘warriors’ of the mainstream-media/political-pundits..

    ..to ask further/query this..

    ..but yeah..!..nah..!..eh..?

    ..lost in the liu..all of them…

    • Ad 17.1
      24 June 2014 at 10:51 am

      Wait until the actual election begins and National actually gets some policy published.
      They were admirably clear about what they were going to do this term, and they did it.
      I would expect the same next term.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 17.1.1
        24 June 2014 at 2:23 pm

        Charter schools.

        • Ad 17.1.1.1
          24 June 2014 at 2:26 pm

          Clearly signalled by Act prior to the election.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 17.1.1.1.1
            24 June 2014 at 2:29 pm

            So clearly that their leader had to be provided with details by the PM.

            • Gosman 17.1.1.1.1.1
              24 June 2014 at 2:33 pm

              Was it ACT party policy prior to the election?

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                24 June 2014 at 2:39 pm

                …and if so, what does that have to do with Ad’s assertion that the National Party were up front about them before the election? The choice to implement them was theirs.

                While you’re at it, remind me where National clearly signalled that they would erode human rights and allow the military to spy on civilians.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 17.1.2
        24 June 2014 at 2:25 pm

        The employment relations amendment act won’t get top billing that’s for sure.

      • Ergo Robertina 17.1.3
        24 June 2014 at 4:11 pm

        In some ways, like asset sales, yes.
        But National uses proxies like Health Benefits Ltd, the $6 million + a year ponzi scheme, to privatise health by stealth, about which they certainly weren’t ‘admirably clear’.
        Act, with 1.07% of the 2011 party vote, was the proxy for charter schools.
        And a raft of government departments and statutory bodies whose overpaid CEOs have no public service ethos are the proxies for many undemocratic and unsignalled actions on behalf of this delinquent regime.

    • JK 17.2
      25 June 2014 at 9:05 am

      ” the only comment i have heard re promises from national re their plans for a third-term..

      ..was english ..promising ‘the most serious shake-up of state spending..in the last 50 yrs’..”

      Phil – can you provide a link to this comment please

  18. irascible 18
    24 June 2014 at 10:48 am

    When it comes to media laziness and bias it would be an interesting exercise to survey the suburban news-sheets that Auckland suburbs rely on for local news. As far as they are concerned there is either no election being fought within their circulation areas or there is only the National party candidate to be reported on. Their editorial policy has been stated to local Labour organisers as “There is no news from Labour unless Cunliffe is in the area and does something controversial….” When asked to clarify controversial the reaction is “whatever will fit between our advertorial content.”
    A reaction as lazy and omplacent as the Press Gallery around the PM.

  19. Craig Glen Eden 19
    24 June 2014 at 10:57 am

    Sadly the media will print what ever National put out, I dont think it would matter who there leader was. Although it is hard for me to say it Cunliffe has not handled this well, I am not sure who is advising him but clearly they have no idea.Cunliffe should have gone on the attack on this issue instead he was defensive and apologetic when there was no need.

  20. infused 20
    24 June 2014 at 11:13 am

    Every time something blows up, you (collective left) blame the media.

    The media were all over National with oravida scandal. The problem was, Labour don’t know what the hell they are doing. Labour failed to push it, and it lost traction. That went on for months. You were all praising paddy back then.

    Now the tables are turned, and your crying like babies.

    The same thing will happen with this story. If Lui doesn’t produce any more evidence, this story will sink.

    Harden up. This stuff is pathetic.

    • framu 20.1
      24 June 2014 at 11:37 am

      “Now the tables are turned, and your crying like babies.”

      bullshit – oravida had a paper trail, evidence, a credible line of questioning and a provable series of events to research

      there was never a story with many accompanying opinion articles calling for collins head based solely on an unproven claim by labour

      please explain how thats the same as the PM spreading gossip without any backup

      what really pathetic is you guys cheering on the PM when hes acting like a 12 year old

  21. dimebag russell 21
    24 June 2014 at 11:30 am

    not only the left despairs at the dumbing down and the mediocre offerings of the MSM. Television is fronted by a gaggle of hair and teeth jobs who have completely lost any sense of objectivity and the print media is filled with either juveniles who know nothing or greybeards who have forgotten everything. And RadioNewZealand is a basket case at the moment. They have employed a horrid little squib with no maners or charisma to front their flagship programme morning report and a real noo noo head to front 9-noone.
    The problem lies in the teachers at J-school who fill these little twerps up with a whole lot of nonsense about pilger and the other disgruntled who think their revelations are scoops and then the little geniuses think thats all there is to it. Then you have nitwits like mark shrewsbury who insisted on pronouncing however as howrever and kathryn ryan who insisits on pronouncing syndrome as sindrum even when she is politely corrected by a real doctor.
    We are living in a time where the schools promoted the post modern bullshit of only your own truths count and now we have a whole generation of little arsewipes who have never done anything in their whole lives but are being gladhanded by their employers because they know they will do what they are told and produce the required amount of piffle.

    • Gosman 21.1
      24 June 2014 at 1:51 pm

      Tell me how the British are more informed and politically engaged than us with their non commercial state funded media outlets?

  22. tsmithfield 22
    24 June 2014 at 12:34 pm

    By and large the MSM isn’t biased. MSM is just interested in what is good for ratings. At the moment it is good for ratings to be tormenting Labour. If National was in the same situation the media would be treating them in the same way. Hence why people on both sides of the right and left divide are continually complaining about the media being biased.

    • Gosman 22.1
      24 June 2014 at 1:47 pm

      Exactly. The art is knowing how to feed the media to further your own political agenda.

      What I find interesting though is that many lefties keep going on about how this is an example of why we need to reform the media in this country. The solutions for this generally all fall back to having more state funding non commercial TV and Radio. However when you look at places that have this like the UK and to a lesser extent Australia politics and people don’t seem much different or more informed than here.

      • framu 22.1.1
        24 June 2014 at 2:01 pm

        and the MSM should be doing what with those lines?

        a) simply repeat them?
        or
        b) do some checking of their own to make sure they are doing their jobs properly?

        cmon goss – its a multi choice question

        what i find interesting is your total inability to talk about the medias behaviour and turn it into a political game of one up

    • framu 22.2
      24 June 2014 at 1:58 pm

      i agree that the MSM are sensationalist attention whores more than anything else, but the coverage of this case has some very obvious issues. The first one being the MSM not doing any journalism in the first place and running a political parties lines for them

  23. Mr Oh Well 23
    24 June 2014 at 12:44 pm

    Now I wonder what requires more attention, John Keys head in a Looo or the failure of electricity market in NZ. Now what again is getting all the media attention, something real and important, or something appears to be out of a cheap magazine. There is definitely asymmetry here in terms of what the media devotes its attention to. They suck, in fact tooo much debate even on the standard.

    Lets get off the loo and back to something at least more important and statistically significant (factual)

    Quote RNZ
    “New figures show power prices have risen by 19 percent since 2009 despite flat or falling demand during the period. Labour’s Energy spokesperson David Shearer said the figures reveal power price rises four times the rate of inflation. ”

    Just taking some raw data from Stats NZ (Feb 2010 to Feb 13) , Powershop (Source: MBIE actullay) and having a play I wonder how much money is going to be lost to mum and dad investors? This analysis by myself is probably crap, but what the hell

    Daily Cost Electricity 365 days Private Dwellings
    Feb-10 $4.80 $1,752.00 1708500 $ 3,093,681,600.00
    Feb-13 $5.60 $2,044.00 1765800 $ 3,609,295,200.00
    -$ 515,613,600.00

    Lets assume a 5 and 10% profit (so that is money lost to NZ schools, hospitals etc)

    5% Profit -$25,780,680.00
    10% Profit -$51,561,360.00

    How many peoples lives could be made better by focused use of this money?

    Maybe I shouldn’t think, Id rather have my head in a looo

    There seems to be no debate on The Standard about 19% increase in power prices (a massive failure by John Key and his special commandos?).

    References:
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-03/german-power-costs-seen-dropping-for-fourth-year-energy.html
    https://www.powerswitch.org.nz/powerswitch/price-trends/tracker
    http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/population/estimates_and_projections/dwelling-and-household-estimates.aspx
    http://www.med.govt.nz/sectors-industries/energy/energy-modelling/data/electricity
    So if http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/247814/power-market-not-working-shearer

    • john 23.1
      24 June 2014 at 2:26 pm

      The big five power companies averaged a total profit of
      – $855 million per year in the last four years under Labour (05-08) and
      – $515 million per year in the first four years under National (09-12).

      • Bearded Git 23.1.1
        24 June 2014 at 3:08 pm

        John-Interesting numbers if true and comparing apples with apples.

        I’d like your source and to know whether the numbers quoted take into account capital write downs/write ups and extraordinary items please.

        • Colonial Viper 23.1.1.1
          24 June 2014 at 3:12 pm

          bearing in mind that power usage always goes up in good economic times, and drops in recessions.

        • john 23.1.1.2
          24 June 2014 at 7:50 pm

          The source is getting the reported annual after tax profit from each of the “big five” companies from their annual reports – all publicly available.(Genesis, Meridian, Mighty River, Trustpower, Contact).

          It started out as an investment exercise. Whenever a company or sector is accused of raking in massive profits I usually have a look at it from an investment point of view. With the electricity sector, most of the last ten years gross dividends have averaged around 5% – i.e. around 3.5% after tax.

          And share price for the likes of Contact has been static for five years, and quite a bit lower than it was six or seven years ago. Similarly Trustpower has largely traded stagnantly in the band of $6-$7 for the last seven years.

          How can that be for companies who are repeatedly accused of raking in obscene profits?

      • Lanthanide 23.1.2
        24 June 2014 at 7:07 pm

        Let’s conveniently forget the $520M special dividend National clawed out of Meridian, shall we?

        • john 23.1.2.1
          24 June 2014 at 7:19 pm

          Lets conveniently try to mislead people that the special dividend was profit.

          (when it was funded from Genesis borrowing to buy Tekapo off Meridian)

          • Lanthanide 23.1.2.1.1
            24 June 2014 at 9:03 pm

            And that borrowing will have to be paid back from future revenue that would otherwise have been profit.

            • john 23.1.2.1.1.1
              24 June 2014 at 9:44 pm

              Of course – just like borrowing for schools, health care, or benefits.

              Which gets us away from the original point – that in recent years power companies have made much several hundred million LESS per year on average than in the mid 2000s.

              • felix …
                24 June 2014 at 10:19 pm

                Don’t worry john, now that Key and English have sold our assets we don’t have to borrow any more.

                Isn’t that brilliant, john? No more borrowing. Just awesome.

                Wait, did you say one year‘s worth of borrowing? We sold our fucking ENERGY assets, forever, to buy us ONE YEAR??

                • john …
                  24 June 2014 at 10:27 pm

                  I used to have energy assets too (Contact Energy shares).

                  I sold them too, back in about 08 or 09.

                  They gave a piddly dividend and the price is still much lower now – years after I sold them.

                  It’s absolutely laughable that people think they are the goose that lays golden eggs.

                  And if the Greens Labour power plan ever came in, it would decimate both their value, and their dividends.

                  Which totally undermines the Greens/ Labour OWN arguement for keeping them.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    24 June 2014 at 10:39 pm

                    Only fuck wits keep valuing the strategic energy assets which underpin our nation in “dollars”

                    It’s absolutely laughable that people think they are the goose that lays golden eggs.

                    Are you calling the heads of billion dollar hedge funds and investment banks liars?

                  • felix …
                    24 June 2014 at 10:54 pm

                    It’s our ability as a nation to produce energy. To have democratic control over the decisions of how to use our own resources.

                    Economic sovereignty. That’s the “golden egg” you fucking moron.

                    • john …
                      24 June 2014 at 11:07 pm

                      Duh – the govt still has 51%, which means they still have control.

                      Some advice – when you call someone a fucking moron, best not to preface it with a statement that backs THEIR position.

                      Otherwise you’ll look like a …..well I think you can guess.

                    • McFlock …
                      24 June 2014 at 11:13 pm

                      Duh – the govt still has 51%, which means they still have control.

                      you moron, it’s not a sole shareholder so (under the companies act) all directors are required to work in the interests of the SOE, not in the interests of the country (e.g. foregoing profits so old ladies can afford a heater in winter – or a life support machine).

                      THAT is what we gave up when we sold the assets.
                      Oh, that and the profits that paid more than the cost of the debt we paid down with the sale income.

                      You’re a fucking idiot.

                    • john …
                      24 June 2014 at 11:33 pm

                      What a load of nonsense. It’s a regulated industry.

                      And the govt owning it didn’t stop Mercury Energy shutting off power to someone on life support in 2007.

                      Apparently in your delusional world that can’t happen when govt owns it, but will happen if it’s privately owned (when the opposite happened).

                      Again, if you going to call someone a fucking idiot, it doesn’t carry much weight when it follows an idiotic comment.

                      That’s like David Cunliffe calling someone a hypocrite.

                    • Ergo Robertina …
                      24 June 2014 at 11:39 pm

                      ‘(e.g. foregoing profits so old ladies can afford a heater in winter – or a life support machine).
                      THAT is what we gave up when we sold the assets.’

                      Did they do this though? Nope, wholly owned the power cos were just as avaricious in profit seeking, but as you point out the proceeds were returned in full to state coffers.
                      If they had indeed been run as public sector entities (foregoing profits etc), the distaste people felt for the asset sales would have been much more vociferous – National would not have got them through.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      24 June 2014 at 11:40 pm

                      No problem, easy enough to legislate a couple of voting public interest directors on to the Boards of the power companies, as well as requiring that the power companies dilute the private ownership by issuing an additional 5% in shares to the government annually.

                      Should solve the ownership problem in about 15 years. Private shareholders would of course be advised to get the fuck out of dodge before waiting that long.

                      If they had indeed been run as public sector entities (foregoing profits etc), the distaste people felt for the asset sales would have been much more vociferous – National would not have got them through.

                      Thanks Michael Cullen and Labour 5 /sarc

                    • McFlock …
                      24 June 2014 at 11:40 pm

                      learn to read.

                      I never said it couldn’t or didn’t happen under govt ownership.

                      I said that govt ownership and moving away from the market mechanism was necessary to ensure it didn’t happen.

                      You moron.

                      Was my description of the duties of directors in a company with multiple shareholders as opposed to a sole shareholder incorrect?

                      edit: that was to john

                      Ergo – My perspective is that public ownership is required, but also removal of the market mechanism and the bradford “reforms”. I chose the life support example specifically because of that.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      24 June 2014 at 11:43 pm

                      What a load of nonsense. It’s a regulated industry.

                      Regulation costs more than simple state ownership for the most social good. Throw in the faux market we have and the costs go up (i.e, we have 5 electricity CEOs @ ~$2m a piece instead of one @~$250k).

                      And the govt owning it didn’t stop Mercury Energy shutting off power to someone on life support in 2007.

                      That happened because our SOE’s follow the psychopathic precept of making a profit instead of being there for the social good. It had nothing to do with it being government owned because the government had removed most of it’s control from the SOE and requires it to make a profit.

                    • john …
                      25 June 2014 at 12:01 am

                      And when Telecom was being run by the govt for the “public good” it was a disaster.

                      It took weeks just to buy a phone – you had to APPLY to get one.

                      Faults took days to get fixed on average.

                      Our technology was years behind the rest of the world.

                      It cost a days wages to make a call from one end of the country to the other.

                      And a weeks wages to make an international call.

                      When telecom was privatised, service levels improved dramatically, and prices went down 60%.

                      “Toll prices came down by 60% between 1987 and 1992. ” From Encyclopedia of NZ
                      http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/telecommunications/page-6

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      25 June 2014 at 12:04 am

                      Nonsensical argument. NZ’s been ripped off daily by under-investment in its telecoms infrastructure, as Telecom itself ships $1B pa to foreign shareholders instead of investing that $1B pa here onshore, in NZ, in NZ companies.

                      In addition Telecom continues to lay off Kiwi employees even though it is incredibly profitable, simply because it wants to take those salaries off workers and ship that money overseas into foreign hands instead.

                      Frankly, you are a traitor to your country mate get fucked.

                    • john …
                      25 June 2014 at 12:17 am

                      Colonial Viper shows his total ignorance with ” as Telecom itself ships $1B pa to foreign shareholders”

                      1/ Telecom is forecast to make $316.9 m this financial year. It made $369 last year.
                      2/ A large number of the shareholders are NZ, including ACC and the NZ super fund.

                      So your claim of $1b going offshore is made up nonsense.

                    • McFlock …
                      25 June 2014 at 12:24 am

                      drag out your copy of I’ve been thinking john, your bullshit is that old…

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      25 June 2014 at 1:19 am

                      And when Telecom was being run by the govt for the “public good” it was a disaster.

                      Actually, it was pretty good.

                      It took weeks just to buy a phone – you had to APPLY to get one.

                      And some places still don’t have broadband – at all. They did have phones though.

                      Our technology was years behind the rest of the world.

                      Yes and no. It takes time to roll out new equipment. What you’re complaining about there is simple physical constraints. The private sector, as the last 20 years have proven, would actually have taken longer.

                      When telecom was privatised, service levels improved dramatically, and prices went down 60%.

                      Actually, service levels had nothing to do privatisation but the roll out of new technology that had started in the 1980s. And I certainly don’t recall prices dropping. I can remember talking to a customer just after privatisation began and he was complaining about the prices going up.

                      Ah, toll prices – yeah. We’d just finished the new fibre cable running the length of the country which meant we actually had bandwidth that we’d never had before. You do understand the basic concept of supply and demand don’t you?

                      Basically, privatisation of Telecom happened at just the time that everyone’s complaints about Telecom were about to disappear because all the investment and hard work had been done. Great PR for the privatisers not so great for NZers who then got massively ripped off by the new private owners.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      25 June 2014 at 1:34 am

                      BTW John, you should probably read this to get some idea as to how much we’ve lost since Telecom was privatised.

                    • Lanthanide …
                      25 June 2014 at 9:22 am

                      john, if you think Telecom when run as a public service was a disaster and that things were terrible and would never have gotten better under government ownership and it was only private ownership that gave us a first-world telecommunications system, then surely that same logic must apply to our health service?

                      The only thing in common after all is government ownership, which must be fucking it up, so if we sell it off, things will get better?

                      Or, is it perhaps, that Telecom when owned by the government was mis-managed? There’s one fix for that: change the management. But that fix does not require the government to sell it, instead the government can change the management themselves. Easy.

        • Kiwiri 23.1.2.2
          24 June 2014 at 11:50 pm

          Btw, how much do the board members, CEO and senior executive team get paid?
          Has someone got the itemised amounts and grand total?

  24. Populuxe1 24
    24 June 2014 at 1:37 pm

    If the media is so biased to the right, why on earth did Granny H make Lucy Lawless guest editor?!?!
    Actually given the amount of complaining from both sides about media bias it’s probably fairly safe to say that left and right suffer from serious confirmation bias and the media carries on it’s merry way covering what ever gets it clicks, sells issues, makes it appealing to advertises without having a political agenda one way or the other.

    • Lanthanide 24.1
      24 June 2014 at 7:09 pm

      By and large I don’t think the media does have a political agenda, but they are simply just bad at reporting and at being critical of the information they’re told by the government.

  25. Tanz 25
    24 June 2014 at 1:58 pm

    Q and A was good this week, DC presented very well on that. No doubt, the MSM is biased, they never stop licking JK’s boots. Agree, behind the smiley veneer, is a ruthless, heartless and greedy money trader.
    ps. why in moderation?

  26. fisiani 26
    24 June 2014 at 2:08 pm

    Posting about alleged media bias is looking for someone to blame. This normally happens after an election. I predict that the finger pointing will continue apace as Labour still think they are winning hearts minds and votes and are thus baffled by their abysmal polling. Looking for an external reason for failure this far out suggests that they are blind to the fact that they are just not wanted.

  27. Mr Oh Well 27
    24 June 2014 at 3:52 pm

    John, great, thanks (a break away from media focus on Lui), you said

    “The big five power companies averaged a total profit of
    – $855 million per year in the last four years under Labour (05-08) and
    – $515 million per year in the first four years under National (09-12).”

    Where did you get the stats from?

    Does it also mean that Labour are actually better at turning a profit and as a result kept New Zealand’s debt down? How wonderfully ironic. Yeah, I’m being simplistic.

    Does that mean, we (domestic market) should be paying less not more for our energy (i.e. show me the money, if the Nats are not making more of a profit, where has the money gone). Also if demand falls, shouldn’t price? or is that only for industrial clients (i.e. the domestic market keeps the man happy?). Whats happened to the demand, whats happend to the money (privatization cost too much?.

    Not being an accountant, I am not experienced enough to pull apart the figures, however, note these 2 points

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8584367/Power-profits-not-unreasonable-analysts

    “1. Operating earnings before interest, tax, depreciation, amortisation and other fair value movements have risen 5.6 per cent across the sector on a compound annual growth basis since 2008.

    1. But over the same period, average profitability across the sector has fallen 3.6 per cent …”
      End Quote

    Also note, commercial and industrial prices have remained fairly flat relative to the domestic market. See Electricity Consumer Prices (Real 2012 Prices)

    http://www.med.govt.nz/sectors-industries/energy/energy-modelling/data/prices

    It does not matter if you love national or labour when looking at that graph, basically, the domestic market appears to be hurting relative to the commercial and industrial?

    Also, the real kicker for me, again,

    New figures show power prices have risen by 19 percent since 2009 despite flat or falling demand during the period. So demand and price are not linked??? ehhh.

    This is a hell of a lot better than talking about Lui, cheers John. I definitely know National are not managing the debt well. Are you trying to infer that less profits in Nationals years have been passed onto the consumer. Its funny we have one less mechanism to reduce debt now that we have partially sold assets.

    Tick Tock Debt Clock
    $81,997,817,155
    Who is gonna pay the man?
    http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/newzealand

    • john 27.1
      24 June 2014 at 5:21 pm

      You quote “average profitability across the sector has fallen 3.6 per cent …”

      In other words, the reason prices have gone up is NOT because of bigger profits. Which makes a lie of the claims by Labour and Greens.

      It’s not rocket science. There’s been huge costs passed on to generators by lines companies, and Transpower. Transpower alone has spent billions on upgrades which have been passed onto generators, and through to power bills.

      In fact the cost of transmission, and cost from lines companies, is nearly the same as the cost of initial generation.

      The generators themselves have also spent many billions in the last few years on new generation including wind farms, geothermal, and hydro upgrades.

      If the generation companies were making as much today as they were under Labour, prices would be much higher than they are now.

      • Colonial Viper 27.1.1
        24 June 2014 at 10:42 pm

        Cut the profits by 2/3 and pass on the savings to NZ households and businesses.

        • john 27.1.1.1
          24 June 2014 at 10:59 pm

          And you’d collapse the electricity sector and end up with power outages again.

          No one would invest money in new infrastructure for nearly zero return, but an even greater risk.

          Cutting profits by 2/3 would not make much difference to prices for households. The average profit from over the last few year for the big five generators is $515m. Your 2/3 saving is therefore $343m.

          But just 33% of power generated in NZ is consumed by households, so that gives a saving of 0.33 x $343 = $113m, giving a saving of $25/ year per person, or 48 cents per week.

          I reckon it’s worth paying 48 cents a week to have reliable power. Especially when a good chunk of that 48c would have been taken off government anyway..

          • McFlock 27.1.1.1.1
            24 June 2014 at 11:02 pm

            Hell, the bulk of “investment” in infrastructure was done by the government, anyway.
            Nationalise the sector.

  28. Ant 28
    24 June 2014 at 4:20 pm

    The current NZ Herald Headline is pretty fucking dirty:

    “Liu Donation Confirmed”

    To those just browsing it looks like his Labour donation has been confirmed, when in fact it is:

    “Liu donation to rowing club confirmed”

    Their story has turned to shit but they seem committed to it. Talk about trying to save face.

    • Blackcap 28.1
      24 June 2014 at 4:38 pm

      It is only the beginning. That is the chinese way. More will come.

    • The Al1en 28.2
      24 June 2014 at 4:51 pm

      By Jared Savage, Adam Bennett

      And it took monkeys to pen.

      • Jack 28.2.1
        24 June 2014 at 8:37 pm

        What the f*** has Labour got to do with the Hawles Bay Rowing Club, the should have passed the Libel Act in 1892 and these guys would watch the s*** they are writing in MSM.

        MSM still madly in love with Key

    • kenny 28.3
      24 June 2014 at 9:15 pm

      Despicable! The NZ Herald is nothing but a rag – those who work there should be ashamed.

  29. Papa Tuanuku 29
    24 June 2014 at 6:41 pm

    Despair is a waste of time, anger and action aren’t. What strategies are in place by the left to fight back? A media watch/attack group?

  30. lurgee 30
    24 June 2014 at 7:50 pm

    The left also despair about the Labour Party’s inability to get a simple, compelling message out and control the media narrative.

  31. felix 31
    24 June 2014 at 8:02 pm

    It’s not rocket surgery. The opposition is supposed to attack the govt and force the govt to defend.

    1. Key’s strategy is to turn this around and force the opposition to defend.
    2. Key understands the goldfish-like media cycle. He knows he can throw any amount of bullshit around and by the time anyone questions him on it he’s on to the next bucket.
    3. Key isn’t going to run out of buckets. If Labour wants to spend the campaign defending then they may as well concede now.
    4. Every day spent responding to Key’s bullshit is a day that should have been spent attacking the govt.
    • BM 31.1
      24 June 2014 at 8:21 pm

      Key’s pretty good at this game.

      Shame for the left that massive egos get in the way of seeing his, therefore dooming them to failure once again.

      Maybe next time, or more than likely, when Key calls it a day undefeated.

  32. dimebag russell 32
    24 June 2014 at 8:19 pm

    anyway the media in new zealand are pampered little infantilised prigs.
    I look at them on the tv and there isn’t one of them I would trust or go into battle with.
    They are hothouse flowers and need to be exposed which will be september 20th.

  33. Chooky 33
    24 June 2014 at 8:39 pm

    ‘The Narcissists Weapon Of Choice: The Smear Campaign Or Why Labor Is Tanking In The Polls’
    24/06/2014 · by Travellerev

    One of the most confounding and malicious weapon human beings have is not the whole array of military hardware used to kill thousands of people every day. While the people killed with them may not agree the killing is not the worst people can do to each other. The killing, believe it or not is just a useful byproduct of the people wielding the most devastating of all weapons. The name of the weapon?

    Ostracism. Also known as the Smear Campaign or the Silent Treatment. And here is why:…..

    …….Over the last couple of weeks a rumor originating from a disgraced National financier and millionaire who is in court for domestic abuse and whose case brought down a long term National politician who crossed the line when lobbying on behalf of this person with the chief of police has been used and promoted to slander and accuse the leadership of the opposition of being involved in similar behavior.

    While I applaud keeping politicians honest and abuse of power and corruption should be dealt with harshly and swiftly here is why it seems to me we are dealing with a narcissistic smear campaign of epic proportions:

    Through a controlled “flying monkey” network of extremely controlled and limited free press we have been bombarded with unproven and unsubstantiated “rumors” of behavior unbecoming (but not illegal) behavior by named persons such as David Cunliffe and others in the top of the party.

    When requesting proof of these accusations this is not given. When the party shows that it’s records do not show any of these accusations to be true (+ they play out over a long period in the past and may or may not really be connected to the people involved) the media is not equally fore coming in their publications of that information.

    The damage done to the party has nothing to do with their politics or policies but everything with an extremely nasty dysfunctional kind of behavior which should be rejected by everybody who thinks that politics should be about facts, policies that serve or don’t serve the greater good and the parties engaging in this should be shunned and rejected because they promote a dysfunctionality and dishonesty which serves nobody other than a few extremely personality disordered and malignant individuals.

    http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/the-narcissists-weapon-of-choice-the-smear-campaign-or-why-labor-is-tanking-in-the-polls/

  34. Chooky 34
    24 June 2014 at 8:42 pm

    The Narcissists Weapon Of Choice: The Smear Campaign Or Why Labor Is Tanking In The Polls
    24/06/2014 · by Travellerev

    http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/the-narcissists-weapon-of-choice-the-smear-campaign-or-why-labor-is-tanking-in-the-polls/

  35. fisiani 35
    24 June 2014 at 8:42 pm

    Explaining is losing and in Liu of reality.

  36. Penny Bright 36
    24 June 2014 at 9:16 pm

    In my considered opinion, ex-Wall St banker – John Key must be one of the most spin-doctored politicians on the planet.

    Which is one of the main reasons I’ll be standing against him in Helensville, to keep the blowtorch on the FACTS about his background, and CORRUPTION at central and local government level.

    File under “You couldn’t make this sh*t up?”

    https://www.facebook.com/3news?fref=nf

    Prime Minister John Key says the jail terms handed to Al Jazeera journalists by an Egyptian court are completely unjust.

    “In my view there’s no way any of these journalists, from what I’ve seen, should be being locked up for what’s fundamentally doing their job,” he said.

    “The way that you define a decent society, in part, is through freedom of the press, and also the fact that you have an open, fair and transparent judicial system.”

    Yep – the ‘poodle of Wall St’ – John Key talking about a ‘decent society’?

    Give me a break!

    Who has seen the ‘Wolf of Wall Street’?

    It’s based on a true story and shows how Wall Street follows NO laws, regulations, ethics or morals – unbridled capitalism at its most debauched.

    Seriously – you need to see it – it’s a documentary on unregulated, ‘free-market’ madness, and Wall Street is where OUR Prime Minister John Key did his ‘apprenticeship’ in self-serving greed and avarice …..

    http://www.beehive.govt.nz/minister/biography/john-key

    “John launched his investment banking career in New Zealand in the mid-1980s.

    After 10 years in the New Zealand market he headed offshore, working in Singapore, London, and Sydney for United States investment banking firm Merrill Lynch.

    During that time he was in charge of a number of business units, including global foreign exchange and European bond and derivative trading.

    In 1999, John was invited to join the Foreign Exchange Committee of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and on two occasions undertook management studies at Harvard University in Boston.”

    So – if NZ Prime Minister John Key – lacKEY of Barrack Obomber – is suddenly so supportive of an ‘open, fair and transparent judicial system’ – then why doesn’t he advocate for THAT, at international level, instead of supporting extra-judicial ‘death by drone strikes’???

    (I do however, of course, oppose the jailing of the Al Jazeera journalists, and understand that even a stopped clock is right twice a day …. )

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

    • fisiani 36.1
      24 June 2014 at 9:36 pm

      Pay your rates or just bring further dishonour on the Far Left.

      • McFlock 36.1.1
        24 June 2014 at 9:40 pm

        … because you just spurt credibility and respect all over dunnokeyo and his cronies… /sarc

      • Chooky 36.1.2
        24 June 2014 at 9:43 pm

        @ fisiani ….i am sure she will pay her rates when the body to which the rates are paid is no longer corrupt…she is making a political and ethical stand …one which i dont think you are capable of understanding

      • fender 36.1.3
        24 June 2014 at 11:10 pm

        Provide proof you’ve paid your bills you far right fascist fucker

    • Chooky 36.2
      24 June 2014 at 9:39 pm

      +100 Penny

    • NZJester 36.3
      25 June 2014 at 2:15 am

      If John Key is so concerned about Journalists not being jailed for doing their job, why did he try to get Bradley Ambrose jailed for doing his by laying a police complaint against him back in 2011?
      After all Ambrose maintains he only inadvertently left the recorder on the table but was unable to retrieve it when he and other media were ordered to leave. It is not like it was hidden out of site!
      It was only after he rolled over and apologised to Key and Banks that the police decided to issue a warning rather than prosecute.
      They basically forced him to choose between his freedom or of doing his job as a Journalist and he chose his freedom.

      • seeker 36.3.1
        25 June 2014 at 2:38 am

        Just what my family said today NZJ. Key is so brazenly two faced. Unbelievable spouting over and over again. He has to go. His careless, damaging utterances and lies and behaviour offend me so much that at times I feel my head will explode. The banality of evil is certainly hideous stuff.

        • mike 36.3.1.1
          25 June 2014 at 3:45 am

          Yes, a shell of a man. A disgusting and contemptible liar, without any redeeming principles. The only politician that rivals him in my estimation is Blair. However, I don’t believe the majority of New Zealander’s are fooled by him, despite what the “opinion polls” are saying , and expect John will be gone come the election.

    • Blackcap 36.4
      25 June 2014 at 5:21 am

      Some pretty outrageous statements being made there Penny. You cannot tar everyone with the same brush. Every industry has its “wolves” and wall street is no different but to say they are all like that is well just ludicrous.

  37. Pete 37
    24 June 2014 at 11:04 pm

    Oh pah-leeze – the left get so many MSM gifts and wrap-arounds and the first time the love is extended rightwards and you scream like pigs thrown out of the trough! Truly risible. Really!

    • Draco T Bastard 37.1
      25 June 2014 at 2:54 am

      Ah, another nonsensical utterance from Planet Key.

    • framu 37.2
      25 June 2014 at 8:23 am

      pete – pete. repeating unsubstantiated claims from a politician without bothering to even check might sound like a love in to you – but most of us can see that its propaganda and not journalism

      and the 8 year john key circle jerk just didnt happen did it

      get a fricken grip – even the most glancing inspection of the historical record shows you up for a shill or an ignoramus with that comment

      ie: your either thick or bought

  38. dimebag russell 38
    25 June 2014 at 8:50 am

    The media is run for what in the USA is called main street. i.e. Retailers. It is the same in new zealand except there is no countervailing power. The actual media practioners if male are little weasels and the females are all looking for a gravy train or a chance to take dictation from some stricken maven.
    Whatever they all have kathrun ryun sindrum which is a version iamthebigiamitis which by its corrosive vitiating effects is very serious indeed.

  39. guven sağlar 39
    26 June 2014 at 1:46 am

    He refused to disclose who told him about the rumours of the donations.

  40. Chooky 40
    26 June 2014 at 6:41 pm

    By Martyn Bradbury

    “How the media worked this week (in less than 25 words)”…..

    Smear Cunliffe over fictional $100k wine
    Smear Cunliffe over fictional $15k book
    Smear Cunliffe over fictional $150k
    L-o-v-e the new John Key book –

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