Alaska or New Zealand?

Written By: - Date published: 1:17 pm, November 13th, 2018 - 71 comments
Categories: class war, economy, Economy, energy, Environment, global warming, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, vision - Tags: , ,

It doesn’t take too much searching of the internet to throw up snippets like the following.

Reid Hoffman, the co-founder of LinkedIn and a prominent investor, recalls telling a friend that he was thinking of visiting New Zealand. “Oh, are you going to get apocalypse insurance?” the friend asked. “I’m, like, Huh?” Hoffman told me. New Zealand, he discovered, is a favored refuge in the event of a cataclysm. Hoffman said, “Saying you’re ‘buying a house in New Zealand’ is kind of a wink, wink, say no more.

Or Kim Dotcom saying

He knew “about a dozen people from Silicon Valley that have homes in Queenstown that haven’t even been on the radar, not been in the media, and that number is just increasing”.

There’s Peter Theil, he of “seasteading” fame who sure, maybe just quite likes Wanaka and Rana Forhoohar being interviewed on The RealNews commenting that

many wealthy people understand that the climate crisis, deep recession and war are real threats, but they believe “apres moi le deluge [after me comes the floods];” the Financial Times columnist and author of “Makers and Takers” says many of the rich have escape plans thinking “they can avoid the apocalypse”

Do I think these people are mad? Well, yes.

But they are powerful people working for powerful companies and institutions who think they can survive the disaster of a world that they and their institutions are creating. That means they won’t stop doing what they’re doing. And more than that, there’s a dangerously hopeless mindset that prevails just a little further along the chain. Here’s Professor Tim Naish of Victoria University –

“Although in an ideal world it (1.5 degrees of warming) would avoid a lot of climate change impact, my sense is we’ve just left that too late.”

Now, he might be right. But his reasoning, reminiscent of many “movers and shakers” is of real concern. The reason he reckons we’ve left it too late is because –

“We’ve got to reduce production and have less cows and sheep. The problem with that is it would tank our economy in the short-term. We can’t do that too quickly…(emphasis mine)

Quotes like that are ten a penny. I’m not going to pretend I understand the mentality, though it is fairly ubiquitous, – pervading government and business and the thinking of moms and pops everywhere.

We know our economy requires ever greater amounts of physical energy in order to grow. We know that the vast majority of that energy produces carbon dioxide. We know we need to reduce the yearly amounts of carbon dioxide, and therefor energy, by about 10% every year from here on in. We can easily enough tumble to presumably otherwise intelligent people stacking the survival of an economic idea against that of the biosphere and coming out in favour of the economic idea. It’s a bit like the proposition of jumping from a high bridge into the path of a moving freight train because jumping into the path of the moving freight train comes with the promise of a million dollars. There’s a detail or two that constitute really obvious shortcomings of that course of action, yes?

So how do we save ourselves from the madness of the very rich and powerful who believe they can survive being clattered by a freight train while we all get smacked and diced? And how do we stop fairly powerful idiots enabling them? Or to put this another way – the idiots are winning but there’s time on the clock. Maybe you’ve already given up?

Here’s some words of a young woman from last week talking about climate change

…this is the fight for our lives. This is the fight of our lives. And we need to put everything on the line. […] We will get there. When we chart our course, we will figure it out. That’s how we got to the moon.

The deluded among the rich and powerful can choose between Alaska and New Zealand. If we choose the world, their deliberations aren’t very important.

71 comments on “Alaska or New Zealand? ”

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  1. Tony Veitch [not etc.] 1
    13 November 2018 at 1:27 pm

    Fortress New Zealand, eh?

    We will close the borders, it’s just a question of when and if we’ve left it too late.

    But then, I am inclined to believe Guy MacPherson – and I’m thinking in terms of the Restaurant at the end of the Universe, without the replays.

    • Bill 1.1
      13 November 2018 at 2:12 pm

      There’s an airport very conducive to the landing of private jets in Queenstown, yes?

      And anyway, what’s the point in closing borders when the world’s warmed by 2 degrees or whatever?

      I’d be thinking today’s energies are better bent towards choosing reality over abstraction – shifting or rejecting whatever stands between us and reality, or that pulls us away from direct contact with reality.

      So, for example, eating is real.

      But apparently we have to go off and get a job, (that might ‘require’ us to fly sometimes), in order to gather up money that we can buy food with – by jumping in a car and driving to a supermarket 10km away to grab a ‘bag of potatoes’ we could easily have grown ourselves – if we didn’t spend our waking hours doing a job that offers abstract notions of individual freedom alomgside indirect benefits such as “bag of potatoes”.

      • Robert Guyton 1.1.1
        13 November 2018 at 2:25 pm

        Queenstown and Wanaka are very poorly-placed when it comes to locally-grown food.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1
          13 November 2018 at 2:59 pm

          Last time I was in Queenstown I was amazed at the number of orchards there. Sure, most of them were grapes for wine production but, then, I’ve always liked a nice wine.

          • Graeme 1.1.1.1.1
            13 November 2018 at 8:15 pm

            Everything in the supermarket in Queenstown, and I mean everything, comes on the back of a truck from at least Christchurch. Even fruit grown in Central Otago will go to the distribution centre first.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2
        13 November 2018 at 2:58 pm

        There’s an airport very conducive to the landing of private jets in Queenstown, yes?

        If the borders are closed how are they going to get there? Closing the borders isn’t about telling people that the borders are closed and then letting them in anyway. It’s about stopping them at the borders with full force and no rescue party.

        And anyway, what’s the point in closing borders when the world’s warmed by 2 degrees or whatever?

        The majority of the worlds population will be fucked. NZ, if our population is kept below five or six million, will still be able to support ourselves.

        That is, of course, a big if as all the billionaires look for a bolt-hole.

        But apparently we have to go off and get a job

        People do need to work to support society. What they don’t have to do is work to make someone else richer.

        • Bill 1.1.2.1
          13 November 2018 at 3:55 pm

          There will be fairly marked levels of internal displacement in NZ. Maybe it’ll be within bounds. Maybe not.

          Don’t know what you mean by “support” ourselves.

          The degradation of plants under higher CO2 levels and the consequent decline in insect numbers and bird numbers is a global phenomenon. NZs flora and fauna isn’t immune.

          Crop failures will happen here. Sea level will rise here. International trading networks on the other hand…yeah, they’ll be pretty well totaled.

          So, whatever materials might be needed for construction or tech won’t be anything like as readily available as now. Same for imported livestock feed, fertilsers and human food.

          All that aside, “work” and “job” are two different things. Nothing wrong with work.

          • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2.1.1
            13 November 2018 at 4:21 pm

            Don’t know what you mean by “support” ourselves.

            I mean that even in a warmed world if we don’t exceed carrying capacity we’ll be able to feed ourselves while maintaining high levels of infrastructure from our own resources.

            Crop failures will happen here. Sea level will rise here.

            True but with our low population we’ll still be able to maintain ourselves.

            International trading networks on the other hand…yeah, they’ll be pretty well totaled.

            True again and it’s something I fully expect. That’s why I’ve been saying for years that we need to boost our own production here. International trade is unsustainable especially in resources.

            So, whatever materials might be needed for construction or tech won’t be anything like as readily available as now.

            If we developed our own resources and put in place effective recycling they would be.

            • Tricledrown 1.1.2.1.1.1
              14 November 2018 at 7:48 am

              DTB you are sounding like a survivalist.
              Their are no orchards or vineyards in Queenstown down the road in the Gibson Valley vineyards and further down the Road Cromwell orchards and vineyards.

      • Tony Veitch [not etc.] 1.1.3
        13 November 2018 at 3:02 pm

        “what’s the point in closing borders when the world’s warmed by 2 degrees or whatever?”

        Couldn’t agree more, Bill. My point is that – closing the borders – is the sort of pathetic response our government will make – instead of taking the hard decisions now and hopefully showing the world how it – well, at least attempted.

        I’m afraid, we’re stuck in the ‘perpetual present.’ We just can’t get our heads round the idea that it all might end!

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3KEhWTnWvE

        Mary Hopkins, 4.25 sec.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.3.1
          13 November 2018 at 4:23 pm

          My point is that – closing the borders – is the sort of pathetic response our government will make – instead of taking the hard decisions now and hopefully showing the world how it – well, at least attempted.

          Even if they made the ‘hard decisions now’ we’ll still need to close the borders as we really won’t be able to support a massive influx of climate change refugees.

          • s y d 1.1.3.1.1
            14 November 2018 at 11:52 am

            how do you close the border? serious question.
            What means do we have to physically prevent people from coming here?

            Force?
            Shooting down aircraft, sinking boats?

            The rich guys might fly in, but surely the masses will arrive any way they can

            • Draco T Bastard 1.1.3.1.1.1
              14 November 2018 at 2:27 pm

              What means do we have to physically prevent people from coming here?

              Force?
              Shooting down aircraft, sinking boats?

              Yes.

              The rich guys might fly in, but surely the masses will arrive any way they can

              If the borders are closed then no one is flying in.

    • Jack Ramaka 1.2
      13 November 2018 at 6:42 pm

      Still waiting to hear how Winston and NZF are going at cutting back the Asian Immigration and Auckland House Buying Ponzi Schemes. Doubt whether Jacinda will do much about it ?

  2. Cinny 2
    13 November 2018 at 1:45 pm

    One of my favourite shows referenced NZ in last weeks episode.

    Was a wtf moment. It’s a horror/fantasy show, different aspect each season, big cast names too like Kathy Bates, the impeccable Jessica Lange, Cuba Gooding Jnr, Denis O’Hare, Gaga, etc etc

    American Horror Story, Season 8 (Apocalypse) Episode 9

    The setting was a dark room with world leaders, corporate owners etc.

    Dialogue went something like this…..

    “we know you have a bunker in the South Island of New Zealand”

  3. Ad 3
    13 November 2018 at 2:09 pm

    Since it is now in the interests of the 1% to protect New Zealand, and they almost uniquely have the capacity to do that, it is good to have them here.

    • Bill 3.1
      13 November 2018 at 2:14 pm

      Yeah Ad, if New Zealand was somehow going to be immune to the ravages of climate change, you might have a point. But it isn’t. So you haven’t.

      • Ad 3.1.1
        13 November 2018 at 2:22 pm

        No one is immune.
        But in the race for mitigation, follow the money.

        • Bill 3.1.1.1
          13 November 2018 at 2:45 pm

          New Zealand is no great example of what to in terms of mitigation.

          Successive governments have done nothing, and this current one is bent on building huge numbers of houses that have incorporated into their designs and builds (as far as I know) nothing by way of mitigation (and near nothing in terms of adaptation)

          I think you’re also overlooking the fact that the deluded nuts who are looking to NZ as a place to survive are obviously individualists.

          They think that they will survive – not those ‘off down the road’, ‘next door’ or ‘over yonder’.

          • Ad 3.1.1.1.1
            13 November 2018 at 2:51 pm

            No argument with national preparedness.

            Ours is already an advanced form of a castle-serf economy. So the 1%er arrival won’t change much for the worse. Better paid serfs – making great coffee.

            • Bill 3.1.1.1.1.1
              13 November 2018 at 3:03 pm

              ‘cept coffee will be in limited and diminishing supply. An’ “the serfs” might be too busy being imaginative and innovative in the debris of post-market chaos and helping out the thousands of internally displaced peeps into the bargain to be overly bothering about serving their Lordships 😉

    • woodart 3.2
      13 November 2018 at 2:47 pm

      do you think the 1% care about you? hah, sycophants have a very short life span, even on your knees…..the 1% want a challenge, bootlickers need not apply.

      • Ad 3.2.1
        13 November 2018 at 2:53 pm

        This is the way we are already.

        If you’re a New Zealander, count your lucky stars.

        • SaveNZ 3.2.1.1
          13 November 2018 at 3:01 pm

          count your lucky stars if you are a New Zealander who has a roof over your head before the apocalypse because increasingly those ‘lucky stars’a ain’t working for significant amounts of people born here who are homeless or close to it, now.

    • SpaceMonkey 3.3
      13 November 2018 at 3:30 pm

      I know the 1% like to think they’re Masters of the Universe but I think they will find they’re still mortal and NZs not immune to climate change.

      The only thing we’ve got going for us is, as the temperate zones around the planet thin, a good portion of NZ is bang on the southern hemisphere zone.

      Mitigation requires a coordinated global response. So we’re screwed there. Adaptation is the only thing we can do locally and I’m pretty sure the 1% will only be looking after themselves.

    • Draco T Bastard 3.4
      13 November 2018 at 4:25 pm

      No it’s not. Allowing them here protects them from the consequences of their decisions and so BAU will continue. This will inevitably lead to the collapse of NZ society.

      As having rich people in all societies throughout history has done.

    • Cinny 3.5
      13 November 2018 at 4:31 pm

      Ad is it a good thing to have them here……because money/power makes someone a good person?

      Or because only the rich should be able to survive an apocalypse because they are the only ones with the wealth to build a bunker to protect themselves?

      It’s the 1% of the 1% who really pull the strings.

  4. SaveNZ 4
    13 November 2018 at 2:21 pm

    Must be why we need more Marinas, rail/tram from the airport and stadiums to keep the worlds wealthy entertained while here.

    Apparently a night shelter for the Auckland homeless isn’t in council plans so all those Natz changes of Supercity and unitary plans (that the woke lefties were braying for), have not led to more affordable housing! In fact sounds like prices are rising. https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/business/spring-fever-auckland-house-prices-surge-to-2018-record/
    What a surprise. Nor is $1743 per week for a single apartment room because the government does not understand what the problem is for housing.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/89584624/premium-motel-rates-danger-money-for-emergency-housing-risk

    I’m not even that worried about a few super rich people coming to NZ because some of them are people tying to help NZ but our regulations seem to have no penalty for those coming here and doing F all for NZ and those who come here and do a lot. They should kick out the ones who fail to deliver what they promise.

    There are also not enough provisions to stop wealthy overseas people donating and influencing government. It has already come out that you can buy a place as an MP.

    If the government are not going to ban overseas purchases they should at least have a wealth stamp duty tax on large purchases and no residency or citizenship here until 10-20 years full time residence and taxes paid in NZ. If foreigners just have a house here, then there should be additional taxes that are payable up front aka a stamp duty and provisions made to get the taxes whether bought through a trust or company.

  5. Stuart Munro 5
    13 November 2018 at 2:23 pm

    It’s kind of funny really – Queenstown/Wanaka as postapocalyptic getaways. Damned hard ground to support yourself from a garden once you leave the bunker. Assuming the locals don’t dig you out for your larder once things go pearshaped.

    • Ad 5.1
      13 November 2018 at 2:25 pm

      Postglacial soils are just hard work.

    • Robert Guyton 5.2
      13 November 2018 at 2:28 pm

      Ah! Stuart beat me to it. He’s right about that. It’s possible to grow food gardens there, but not common. There is a “growing” resilience groups in Queenstown and they’re exploring all of the possibilities for a time when the supply trucks can’t get through. Perennial vegetables, growing everywhere about the town, is my suggestion. For starters.

      • Ad 5.2.1
        13 November 2018 at 2:46 pm

        Any websites for Queenstown or Wanaka resilience groups?

        More likely to find large circular irrigators in Hawea though.

        • Robert Guyton 5.2.1.1
          13 November 2018 at 2:55 pm

          Not yet, I think. Hawea conditions are fairly severe too. Irrigators are fine, if they’ve been deployed ahead of the crisis, should there be one.

      • Bill 5.2.2
        13 November 2018 at 2:56 pm

        I imagine much of Alaska (or Norway) is “less than optimal” for growing food. But in a world where fish has apparently evolved and now comes from tins and not the sea, I think that may be a pesky detail some deluded multi-millionaires and billionaires have overlooked.

        They’ll be looking to buy everything they envisage they’ll need and store it in high security bunkers or some such I imagine.

        Maybe go pop a deer or a tahr – overlooking that deer and tahr will be as diced by global warming as everything else? And that their helicopter fuel’s not going to be lasting forever. And that it’s unlikely they’ll be able to source spare parts, meaning that whatever spares they’ve supplied themselves with is it.

        Not to be forgetting pissed off locals having designs on those food stores 🙂

        • Stuart Munro 5.2.2.1
          13 November 2018 at 4:47 pm

          Even if the Tahr make it, and lets face it they’re pretty hardy, the average sessile billionaire isn’t really up to chasing them sans helicopter, even with artillery.

          Goats will prosper though – they can eat pretty much everything except barbed wire, and tolerate heat well enough that their browsing sustains much of the Sahara.

          This fellow made a good living on goats: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-real-robinson-crusoe-74877644/

      • Stuart Munro 5.2.3
        13 November 2018 at 4:53 pm

        These guys http://www.thegreencenter.net/ (used to be the New Alchemists) had pretty promising integrated systems back in the day, they’d certainly work if they were well tended.

    • SaveNZ 5.3
      13 November 2018 at 3:06 pm

      The Chrisco house made famous by Dotcom being arrested there Hollywood movie style 30+ armed defenders and videoed for the US allies entertainment, apparently had millions of litres of diesel stored and 2 years worth of canned food because the Chrisco guy (British) who built it, was planning for the apocalypse too. So I don’t think gardening is on the cards for them.

    • greywarshark 5.4
      13 November 2018 at 3:15 pm

      Yes growing and storing food is going to be a problem where front line survival tactics will be needed as left to the community to cope there won’t be enough to go round, and thieves will come in the night and whip it all out. Tomatoes left to ripen will disappear. Waiting and tending garden vegs to grow to maturity will probably involve being out with a shotgun, or those whirly drones will come into their own. Avocado orcharists know the bold faced determination to rob them, with stolen machinery even. Beehives are being robbed, and stolen, and it isn’t for subsistence living either, much of it will be onsold to get a profit.

      It is observable now. So will happen. Community trees and gardens will not be there to be shared and available when planned, the ground will be bare. So it’s no use being hopeful, NZ has always been a bit careless but now we are getting closer to a hard-nosed frontier town trying to defend its interests with declining housing, declining jobs, declining food, declining health and declining happy moments to live for. And most of all a declining respect for government since the working people, low income’s party got filled with people to nice to be bothered about gaining more weekly salary for workers, they stepped up the ladder to deal in world derivatives, the modern way of doing profitable business for the people who matter. I guess it might come to that black comedic saying ‘Eat the Rich’.

      And a lot of ground will be polluted, not as now, but from dying animals and the huge amount of milk that has had to be poured somewhere when the system of demand breaks down for some reason but the supply continues; how many cows a day could we kill. Would someone like to tell me what will happen to the milk when the drying units are over-loaded, and national disaster response managers with inadequate systems start to cry, and the machinery and space and fuel is not available to shift it to where it can be dealt with or do the least damage?

  6. Dennis Frank 6
    13 November 2018 at 2:47 pm

    This stuff got big after the gfc. A friend of mine more susceptible to conspiracy theories heard about an large area fenced off with razor wire down south, travelled down there in his housetruck to check it out. Apparently no signage notifying a govt or commercial purpose, when he reported back. Told me where but too obscure to recall the detail on that. Rolled my eyes inwardly, because he ain’t stupid (lecturer in electrical engineering, now retired).

    But yeah, not resilience thinking, just an escape route as insurance. System collapse is more likely to be partial/gradual nowadays. A positive way to frame it is wealthy folk with a track record of organisational skill are a useful resource, particularly in troubled times. If they become entrepreneural here, some of our bioregions will prosper.

  7. Draco T Bastard 7
    13 November 2018 at 2:49 pm

    But they are powerful people working for powerful companies and institutions who think they can survive the disaster of a world that they and their institutions are creating. That means they won’t stop doing what they’re doing.

    Yes and the reason why they believe that is because we’re not stopping them acting that way. In fact, their immoral behaviour is held up as the Gold Standard of behaviour rather than as the sociopathic actions that they are.

    We’ve got to reduce production and have less cows and sheep. The problem with that is it would tank our economy in the short-term.

    Like most people he’s confusing finances and rich people with the economy.

  8. WeTheBleeple 8
    13 November 2018 at 3:01 pm

    “So how do we save ourselves from the madness of the very rich and powerful”

    By saving ourselves. By forming communities again. By localizing food power and water collection. By ignoring their fucking ridiculous game aka the rat race.

    By individually, we who are billions, beginning to take care of ourselves and each other again; rather than compete for crumbs at the tables of monsters.

    By collectively making life hell for wishy washy politicians so it is not worth sitting on the fence or getting payments from elites. By abandoning media outlets that push elite agendas. By abandoning businesses elites own. By divesting from them.

    We are their revenue, we made them rich buying into their rubbish. Stop buying shit. Invest in clean business only. Where unavoidable invest collectively to provide alternatives to fight them.

    Decentralize everything. We are only so dependent because it seemed convenient. Now it is our death knell.

    Small business whose only purpose is to serve the community that owns it would cut elites out of the loop entirely. Community, collectivism.

    Trade, barter, grow, build, sew, plant, plant, plant…

    Upskill, re-skill in human basics – gardening, sewing, cooking, gathering.

    Seeds, trees and ideas. Plant and water them well.

    Boltholes and bunkers are as stupid as the a-holes buying and building them. Not going to help anything just a prison delaying fat ass folk from dying. What, they’re going to emerge from their holes and be handymen?

    Our dependencies are their riches and power. Be free.

    Zero tolerance. Zero investment. Zero votes.

    • Bill 8.1
      13 November 2018 at 3:09 pm

      Boom.

      Learn shit – like shit you can do with your hands; like shit you do with others; like shit that might foster, develop and protect community.

      And explicitly withdraw the supposed “consent of the governed”.

      • WeTheBleeple 8.1.1
        13 November 2018 at 3:36 pm

        Hey Bill you’ll love this if you’ve not heard about it. The Great Green Wall.

        • greywarshark 8.1.1.1
          13 November 2018 at 10:36 pm

          Reading about NZer (not Englishwoman) Wendy Campbell Purdie and her trials of planting trees and food plants in Northern Africa has been of continual interest. Here are a few assertions printed in an article referring to her work.

          The booklet explains: Contrary to popular imagination, TREES DO GROW IN THE DESERT. Trees, given adequate protection against goats, camels and the desperate need for cooking and heating fuels, will flourish without expensive irrigation or any high-cost technology.

          By using lowcost, labor-intensive techniques of tree establishment developed at Bou Saada and by judicious selection of deep-rooted, salt-tolerant and drought-resistant trees, the moving sands can be stabilized, sandstorms stopped and the atmosphere cooled to seven times the height of the trees. Indigenous shrubs and grasses are then able to re-establish themselves and continue the soil-binding process. But this is only the beginning—as trees grow, countless other benefits follow. Surface humidity increases as moisture is brought up by the tree roots; grain, vegetables and fodder crops for livestock can be grown and poultry and bee-keeping introduced.
          http://manasjournal.mrwconnected.info/You have to do a Find for Bou Saada in this condensed brick of information.

          Another link about her work:
          http://www.primitivism.com/tree-of-life.htm

          and
          About Richard St Barbe Baker and 2018 progress about trees in South Australia; what is happening here that is similar?
          https://treesforlife.org.au/about-us#history

          • WeTheBleeple 8.1.1.1.1
            15 November 2018 at 10:00 am

            I love this sort of thing.

            Greening the Desert is a great project to tune into. Starting with rock…

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xcZS7arcgk

            I’m identifying some hardy pioneers from NZ. Am also very interested in our fireproof plants as fire AND flood will increase in our future.

            Before the desert comes the desiccation, and fires.

            Hint: If snails live in it, it is likely fire resistant – snails can’t run.

    • One Two 8.2
      13 November 2018 at 3:18 pm

      YES

      Precisely that!

    • SpaceMonkey 8.3
      13 November 2018 at 3:49 pm

      Yep. Spot on. Power down means going back to the basics. And it is the only effective mitigating response to climate change. These are things we need to teach our children if we are to teach them well.

  9. Ken 9
    13 November 2018 at 4:52 pm

    If the apocalypse does come, these super wealthy preppers will be an excellent source of food and resources once we’ve winkled them out of their bunkers.

  10. WeTheBleeple 10
    13 November 2018 at 5:53 pm

    The council in AK knows about an awful lot of bunkers. I imagine many councils have similar in their books of permits. The middle classes may have missed the bunker press release re: secret bunkers.

    It’s a get mine mentality, it is get mine that got us all here. It is futile though instinctual I’d hazard a guess.

    Only together can we do anything. Including beat this.

    The elite seem at best useless to us on the matter of the planet. The majority is however large enough to let them die on the vine.

    Those bunkers are worthless. Divest.

  11. BM 11
    13 November 2018 at 6:15 pm

    NZ has always been considered the place to escape a Nuclear war/ end times situation

    For example, The Mormon Temple out at Temple View built back in the late 1950’s – early 60’s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_New_Zealand_Temple

    The place is one gigantic bunker, goes about 6-8 stories underground, apparently all the Mormon Church treasures are stored there.

    When the shit hits the fan all the top dogs in the Mormon Church will be on the first plane to NZ.

    • joe90 11.1
      13 November 2018 at 7:09 pm

      When I was a kid the old man built quite a few followers houses in Temple View and according to the commands of their faith to prepare every needful thing’ so that, should adversity come, we may care for ourselves and our neighbors, and support bishops as they care for others, every house had cellar storage for a years worth of tucker, a cast cistern, and weirdly for late sixties NZ, a couple had vapourising oil burner central heating systems.

      • BM 11.1.1
        13 November 2018 at 7:30 pm

        every house had cellar storage for a years worth of tucker, a cast cistern, and weirdly for late sixties NZ, a couple had vapourising oil burner central heating systems.

        Interesting, the Mormons are an end time cult/ religion, so I can see why they’d do that

        My old man was involved in supplying the flooring in the main temple, they’d only let him go down 2 floors from that point on it was off limits, super top secret.

        You’d be interested to know they’ve bowled the school and all the surrounding houses beacause of the rules regarding earthquakes and are completely redoing the whole area, hundreds of millions are getting spent, and they’re doing an amazing job, it’s all very beautiful and modern.

  13. Pat 13
    13 November 2018 at 6:19 pm

    “We know our economy requires ever greater amounts of physical energy in order to grow.”

    As long as the establishment pursue ‘growth’ we can be confident that there will be no serious attempt to make the changes required to provide our offspring a future regardless of the rhetoric.

  14. Jack Ramaka 14
    13 November 2018 at 6:44 pm

    We need more people like the ultra wealthy Peter Thiel to boost the NZ Economy.

  15. marty mars 15
    13 November 2018 at 7:29 pm

    The land is hard and the people harder.

    These new people will find that out.

    IF they think they’ll make it they are dreaming.

    Those hills won’t change.

    It’s a lovely place to energise surrounded by tall people but I wouldn’t be able to live there.

  16. Incognito 16
    13 November 2018 at 10:03 pm

    When (not if) shit hits the fan or air-conditioning it’ll be safer in NZ than in Alaska because over here not every man and his dog carries a gun.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Alaska

    • SpaceMonkey 16.1
      14 November 2018 at 12:00 pm

      Plus it’s more difficult to get to. The tyranny of distance that some have decried over the years will become one of our biggest assets. Who needs to build a wall when nature has provided a very large moat!

  17. RedLogix 17
    13 November 2018 at 10:30 pm

    Bunkers are bunk. The only thing that will count if it turns to industrial grade custard is the community you are part of, and how well led it is.

  18. WeTheBleeple 18
    14 November 2018 at 6:55 am

    Absolutely. In a world soon to be uninsurable; strengthening community ties today is insurance for tomorrow. That Taro patch outside that just grows and grows, with months of carbohydrates there… that is also insurance. The topsoil I’m building so I don’t require fertilisers – Insurance. The seed stock, the fruit and nut trees, trees you might coppice to run a stove…

    Garden initiatives, to me, are one of the easiest ways to meet the neighbors. Swapping plants and knowledge. Local markets are another place to network, as are local protests, and local interest groups. Kids want to feed the chooks so I also meet parents that way.

    Street parties should be attended no matter how awkward. Make some baking and go and meet your neighbors. This is not easy for me I’m Aspie so I overcompensate being overly friendly and piss ‘cool folks’ off. I’ve managed to hide this condition all my life people just think I’m over the top.

    Converting the front lawn to garden has got me introductions to more folks as they pass by and comment. The carved birdbath (just a stump with a bowl in it) is particularly good at catching attention – so simple yet elegantly beautiful. I had a pumice carving too, it was gifted by Bill, till a digger hit it (sorry Bill, damn digger was in the yard before I knew it). That was commented on a few times and got introductions too.

    It’s surprising, but folks are a lot nicer in life than online; and you don’t lose context so quickly.

    Avoid street-side perma-jungle – you know, feral yards. Not a good look even if you think so. Go for a cottage garden look by adding in flowers every time you plant. Make a mullet yard, business up front, party out back. Advertise that common sense and beauty, that food supply at your doorstep. And of course, grow some plants with food nobody recognizes, just in case.

    The vast learning curve required to go from low practical skill office type to handy provider of a sustainable system is wrapped together in permaculture. This course is prohibitively expensive (~$1500) to the poor. Here is the videos for free, beg or borrow books, and get started.

    “We are global, we’re the world’s largest aid agency, we have more projects and more people and more experience than any other aid agency, we don’t cost anybody money (oh yeah, course fees?), and we work in hundreds of countries.”

    This could change everything:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZYZ41SOIK0&list=PLZhcG8ZQiFtVhv02jHsxDwJwpTbTVZG0O

    My mission is to make all this easier with specific local advice and proven plant guilds. Get involved. Stay tuned.

  19. esoteric pineapples 19
    14 November 2018 at 8:18 am

    The Real News is excellent.

  20. Timeforacupoftea 20
    14 November 2018 at 9:25 pm

    Goodness me
    Holy hell
    Tomorrow I must contact Gun City regarding purchasing a few firearms and a number of pellets of ammunition . . . . .

  21. Times up 21
    18 November 2018 at 8:45 pm

    I read the mega elites coming here are trying to figure out how to keep their security from turning on them when things get really bad, once they realise a resilient community that isn’t going hungry IS The best security, maybe we can get them to invest some of their mega millions into food security .