Another blow against decency and truth: the flourishing of evil.

Written By: - Date published: 7:30 am, March 8th, 2025 - 83 comments
Categories: Christopher Luxon, Donald Trump, International, Minister for International Embarrassment, Politics, us politics, winston peters - Tags:

I am an ordinary citizen of Aotearoa. I am deeply angered at and ashamed of the actions of Winston Peters in dismissing Phil Goff as our High Commissioner in London. It is a deplorable decision.

I am not politically naïve, having been on the periphery of the political process my entire adult life. I understand that in that official position it is breach of diplomatic protocol to voice unauthorised views. However, our Foreign Minister, “the man who would be King,’ despite never having earned enough votes from the public to actually make him King, acted independently of the Prime Minister with this swift and hugely disproportionate response to what he regards as an unforgivable offence against diplomatic convention.

The High Commissioner’s mild remarks related to a President who shows utter contempt and disregard for diplomatic conventions- a man who is rapidly turning the USA into a dystopian country propped up by plutocrats, one of whom overtly espouses fascist concepts.

Trump is a man whose erratic and dangerous domestic and foreign policy decisions threaten world political and economic stability; a man whose decisions are based on nepotism and cronyism and self-interest and whose ego is bolstered by sycophants. His unprincipled and willing acceptance of the actions of any regime that he sees as furthering the interests of his political cronies and himself allows him to condone Russia’s totalitarianism, its crushing of opposition, its assassination of dissenters on domestic and foreign soil and its imperial ambitions.

I despair that our Prime Minister and his colleagues are not prepared to raise their voices to confront the abomination of the Trump regime directly. Should we be reassured that Mr Luxon “still sees the US as a reliable partner”? It may be argued that without the observation of diplomatic niceties, the international political system would disintegrate into dysfunctional confusion.

However, at some point, when this international system seems to have lost the ability and the will to deter acts of madness on the part of the USA, such as the threat to take Greenland and Panama by force, the voices of reason must be raised. The collective outrage of Europe and the former President of the USA in conjunction with many other world leaders at Putin’s invasion of Ukraine was not enough to prevent the ongoing tragedy of a war on the European continent.

For this reason alone, and in anticipation of many more potential outrageous acts of an American regime which has buried truth along with decency, now may be the time we need to overturn some of these political conventions and protocols. We in Aotearoa and our representatives overseas should be actively and loudly exposing the fabrications of the Trump regime and resisting its appalling premises and actions rather than tiptoeing around a nation which is abusing this power.

As the buried dormant seeds of fascism begin to sprout through the soil in the corners of many European countries, we would do well to remember that “For evil to flourish, it only requires good people to do nothing”.

Helen Nicholls, Auckland Aotearoa

83 comments on “Another blow against decency and truth: the flourishing of evil. ”

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  1. David 1
    8 March 2025 at 8:22 am

    NZ is a pretty small country, I remember the devastation when Wall Street had a minor hiccup in’87, NZ had a financial meltdown, that was on top of NZ pissing off the US with our anti nuclear stance. I’ve always wondered if that was a punishment along with the French bombing the Rainbow Warrior.

    Donald Trump for all his faults, is the elected president of the US, he’s also vindictive. The last thing we need for NZ is our diplomats insulting (even when it’s true) Donald Trump. Economically NZ is not doing well, every time we have economic problems poverty gets worse, then takes far too long to improve for those who are paying the price for this country’s economic woes.

    NZ’s diplomats certainly don’t insult other countries leaders, and there are plenty far worse than Donald Trump.

    • Anne 1.1
      8 March 2025 at 10:24 am

      "… there are plenty far worse than Donald Trump".

      You've got to be joking! It's time you took the blinkers off your eyes. Sure there are other despots around but none of them have the power of Trump and his current best mate, Putin. How long that mate-ship will last is anybody's guess.

      You don't mess around with a narcissistic ignoramus like Trump. Flattery and sycophancy will only make him worse. As for Winston Peters:

      a petulant political has-been who got his knickers in a twist because he's off to Washington soon and Goff said something he didn't like. Sure, give him a telling off, but to sack him in such a dramatic manner only serves to attract the very attention he's wishing to avoid.

      As for Luxon's pathetically weak response:

      • David 1.1.1
        8 March 2025 at 11:36 am

        Anne, a seriously pissed off Donald Trump, could very easily have a devastating effect on NZ, and the people who would have the most to lose, are the less well off lower middle and working classes.

        You are more than welcome to cut off your nose to spite your face, maybe you can afford to ride out the hard times, or maybe you are willing to deal with the consequences. Personality I don’t want to be the cannon fodder for other people’s ideology. I'm under no illusion that I would benefit from the far left, anymore than I'd benefit under the far right. Unfortunately we are at this place in history where we are living in interesting times. However we are far away from the evils of Nazi Germany, communist Russia, and imperial Japan.

        Diplomacy is supposed to be the art of getting along with people who we disagree with. Deliberately provoking and insulting people achieves nothing.

        • weka 1.1.1.1
          8 March 2025 at 2:29 pm

          Trump and co are in the process of removing US democracy. That will impact on NZ economically.

          What you are saying is that we should bend down to the dictator now, in the hopes that doing so will mean our economy is left intact. The problem with this twofold. One is that Trump is a powermongering narcissist with a fragile ego, which means that bending down now won't be enough, he will need more and more obeisance to feed his grandiosity.

          The other problem is that as the climate crisis deepens, the US will want our resources. That means that once they have broken down international conventions around nationhood, they will come here and colonise NZ and strip mine the country.

          We could take a punt on surviving that, but it will also mean catastrophic climate change which will collapse civilisation.

          The alternative is for every person who can to stand up now and resist fascism. We might not win, but acquiescing now is a sure fire way to lose.

          • David 1.1.1.1.1
            8 March 2025 at 4:03 pm

            Weka, NZ is just too small and powerless to effectively stand up to the likes of Trump in charge of the US. Assuming that he’s as bad as many people believe, NZ being a bit too lippy towards Trump will cause nothing but trouble, those who will suffer the most, are those who have the least. I have no wish to become a martyr for other peoples battles, I’ve been there, done that, got throughly kicked in the arse. Call me selfish, but I’m not taking a hiding, so as to make others feel better.

            The UK, Canada and Western Europe have the ability to handle Trump without being trampled.

            • Incognito 1.1.1.1.1.1
              8 March 2025 at 4:52 pm

              Your thinking epitomises the saying ‘united we stand, divided we fall’ and why bullies are allowed to bully thanks to divide & conquer strategies.

              Standing for decency, dignity, and truth may cross paths with bullies but you say serfdom and cowardice are preferable to standing up for one’s principle and values.

              Is NZ not a sovereign nation or is it competing for a spot on The Apprentice?

            • weka 1.1.1.1.1.2
              9 March 2025 at 7:51 pm

              what Incognito said. And here's what it looks like at the state level,

              Timothy Snyder via https://bsky.app/profile/freethinkersunited.bsky.social/post/3ljviaq25sk2d

              • Incognito …
                9 March 2025 at 8:25 pm

                I’d like to elaborate on that one.

                Indeed, authority is a three-way agreement in which the state is granted power over citizens to protect them against the vast power of the state and against other individuals. In a functioning democracy, the state is [held] accountable and controlled by self-imposed rules & regulations. When trust in authority diminishes power imbalances occur more frequently and more severely and violence erupts, both state-sanctioned and unlawful acts of violence, first against single individuals and then slowly extending to select groupings in society. The latter is full-blown fascism.

      • Michael Scott 1.1.2
        8 March 2025 at 12:06 pm

        You don't need to support Trump to acknowledge that some of his actions are bearing fruit.

        Yesterday DOGE uncovered a single fund within a government agency that distributed tens of billions to progressive non profits that were seemingly set up just to receive the money.

        If he is able to end two wars and not start any it won't be all bad

        • weka 1.1.2.1
          8 March 2025 at 12:09 pm

          link to something credible to back up the DOGE claim please (and before you comment again).

        • SPC 1.1.2.2
          8 March 2025 at 12:27 pm

          Shocking, USAID grants money for this and that purpose and people form a NGO to provide the aid, scandalous ….

          And it's all wasted ... like the one helping Ukraine repair their energy infrastructure after Russian attacks that DOGE cancelled as soon as …

          • roblogic 1.1.2.2.1
            8 March 2025 at 4:59 pm

            That cancelling of USAID has to be the worst thing Trump/Elon has attempted yet. Tens of millions of lives have been saved by that programme.

          • weka 1.1.2.3.1
            8 March 2025 at 1:00 pm

            thanks. I started reading that but it's so evidence free that I gave up. When you strip out the partisan politics, the only thing that looked like a problem was this,

            There is nothing in the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund that calls for oversight of those loans.

            https://www.thefp.com/p/a-20-billion-slush-fund-nonprofits

            And that relies on trusting an appointee of the Trump government, which at this point seems unwise.

            It's also worth noting that said bod, new EPA adminstrator Lee Zeldin is basically pointing a finger and saying corruption! slush fund!, at a time when his people are in a wholesale destruction of US democracy, and that accusing your opposition of things you yourself are doing is one of the tactics.

            There is a high degree of 'left is bad' rhetoric, which is what I would expect from a blog, not a reliable news source. Not that TFP journalism can't be good, just that the piece I was reading was from the Editors, so it was hard to get past the politics and find out what had actually happened.

        • Rodel 1.1.2.4
          8 March 2025 at 4:30 pm

          Gosh! Where did you get that information from?

    • SPC 1.2
      8 March 2025 at 10:56 am

      If you think the Wall Street crash of 1987 was the reason for our economic circumstance 1984-1999, you were not paying attention.

      Stockmarket – we cut income taxes for the well off from 66 cents to 33 cents, they had money "speculate" with. The market peak in 1986 was followed by a crash and then a return to that peak in 1987 and it crashed again (and our banks took a bath because of unwise lending). The "speculators" moved into property (generally top end of the market mansions or coastal property or lakeside like Queenstown). Others either invested offshore or in rental housing after 1999/2002, economic recovery sustained by via migrant inflow population growth.

      • David 1.2.1
        8 March 2025 at 11:43 am

        Yeah you have a point, however it was the deregulation of the finance and banking sector, along with general incompetence. Our worsening relationship with the US didn’t help either. There was doubt that the French would have bombed the rainbow warrior in Auckland, had our relationship with the US been better. NZ is just the little guy who everyone loves during the good times, but is discarded when convenient.

        • SPC 1.2.1.1
          8 March 2025 at 11:47 am

          It is obvious that the UK and USA gave the greenlight to the French.

          But the big boys followed our nuclear weapons free South Pacific policy when they withdrew the nukes out of Europe.

          • Barfly 1.2.1.1.1
            8 March 2025 at 12:03 pm

            Withdrew?

            Google "nuclear weapons in Europe"

            Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Turkey all host U.S. nuclear weapons.

            Plus France, UK, Belarus and Russia

            • SPC 1.2.1.1.1.1
              8 March 2025 at 12:10 pm

              Too young to remember the 1980's, the meeting between Reagan and Gorbachev (intermediate range nukes out of Europe) and onto START (Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty).

          • alwyn 1.2.1.1.2
            8 March 2025 at 1:22 pm

            "It is obvious that the UK and USA gave the greenlight to the French"

            Your evidence for that claim is what, precisely?

            • SPC 1.2.1.1.2.1
              8 March 2025 at 1:30 pm

              In the faxes and phone calls, they did not have emails in those days.

            • David 1.2.1.1.2.2
              8 March 2025 at 2:49 pm

              Alwyn, after the French bombing of the rainbow warrior in Auckland, the silence from NZ’s closest friends and allies was deafening. The Rainbow Warrior was a UK registered vessel, sunk by a foreign country in NZ, there was very little condemnation from the UK at the time. Little old NZ isn’t that important, we are an expendable pawn that can be slapped down by the big boys.

              • alwyn …
                8 March 2025 at 9:14 pm

                The statement that "It is obvious that the UK and USA gave the greenlight to the French" is, at least to me, a claim that they knew about the planned attack before hand and had approved it. That is a completely different thing to them not objecting to it after it had happened which is what happened.

                Not complaining afterwards is in no way evidence that they had approved of it before the event.

                If you think it is I will offer a couple of examples. Russian troops, or at least Russian backed Ukrainians, shot down a Malaysian plane over Ukraine in 2014. New Zealand did not complain about it and abuse the Russian Government, IIRC. Did that mean and is that proof that they had approved of the attack before it happened? Of course not.

                A US Cruiser shot down an Iranian plane over the Arabian Gulf in 1988. New Zealand did not upbraid the USA. Did that prove that they knew about it beforehand and approved? Of course not.

                Why do you think the silence after the French sinking of the Rainbow Warrior was any different?

          • David 1.2.1.1.3
            8 March 2025 at 2:41 pm

            We’re getting off track here, however from the mid ‘80’s the Soviet Union was being bleed dry by the Afghanistan war and trying to keep up with the US military spending. The US, Australia, UK were certainly annoyed with NZ’s position. Sure standing up to the big boys may have felt good, however it didn’t feed our poor. While many things maybe better in NZ now than in the 80’s, poverty and deprivation has increased. Welfare was for the poor, now we have government benefits for the middle classes just so they can feed their kids.

            To get back to Donald Trump, sometimes discretion is the better part of valour. There are other ways to deal with Trump, I’m pretty sure there are people much smarter than you or I in the US , Uk and Western Europe who are working out how to deal effectively with Trump, without the need to make matters worse.

        • Morrissey 1.2.1.2
          8 March 2025 at 12:35 pm

          Our worsening relationship with the US didn’t help either.

          Correct. The U.S. political class was extremely angry that we dared to stand up to them. There's nothing the mafia state fears more than an independent state. Still, all they did was yell at David Lange and mutter about our failure to be as obedient and compliant as Australia. We're lucky we weren't a poor Central or South American country or a leader of the Third World as Indonesia was until Washington could stand its independence no longer…

          Grenada has a hundred thousand people who produce a little nutmeg, and you could hardly find it on a map. But when Grenada began to undergo a mild social revolution, Washington quickly moved to destroy the threat. …

          The weaker and poorer a country is, the more dangerous it is as an example. If a tiny, poor country like Grenada can succeed in bringing about a better life for its people, some other place that has more resources will ask, "why not us?"

          This was even true in Indochina, which is pretty big and has some significant resources. Although Eisenhower and his advisers ranted a lot about the rice and tin and rubber, the real fear was that if the people of Indochina achieved independence and justice, the people of Thailand would emulate it, and if that worked, they’d try it in Malaya, and pretty soon Indonesia would pursue an independent path, and by then a significant area of the Grand Area would have been lost.

          https://chomsky.info/unclesam01/

  2. Morrissey 2
    8 March 2025 at 9:05 am

    Speaking of the forces of decency and truth confronting unmitigated evil: here are the directors of the Oscar-winning documentary No Other Land protesting against IOF thugs who are enforcing the destruction of a Palestinian home. The fact that this clip comes courtesy of a pro-Occupation, pro-genocide account which hates Jewish human rights activists even more than. Palestinians, only heightens its impact. Enjoy….

    https://x.com/JewishWarrior13/status/1897268679815078295

  3. roblogic 3
    8 March 2025 at 10:06 am

    Peters has joined forces with conspiracy theorists and MAGA nuts. In that toxic cesspool anyone who has left wing inclinations or criticises Trump is part of the evil commie conspiracy.

    They love sacking public servants, for some vindictive tribal reason.

  4. Phillip ure 4
    8 March 2025 at 10:55 am

    Peters set a new benchmark in bending the knee to trump…

    Were him and luxon in power in the 1930's…their lips would have been firmly fixed to Hitler's arse ..and they would have preached appeasement ..

    • roblogic 4.1
      8 March 2025 at 11:01 am

      Nailed it 💯

    • Morrissey 4.2
      8 March 2025 at 11:13 am

      False equivalence. Putin is not remotely comparable to Hitler. If you do want to compare a political leader to Hitler, there certainly is one. He's fully funded and diplomatically backed by this U.S. regime, and was backed to the hilt by the previous U.S. regime. That’s why so many decent Americans turfed that regime out by refusing to vote for it.

      https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/michael-f-brown/democrats-palestinians-drop-dead

      • Phillip ure 4.2.1
        8 March 2025 at 11:44 am

        Trump and Putin together are the modern equivalent of that despot…(Do I have to list what Putin has done/does..?.)

        And yes..trump was voted in..(something I am still having difficulty processing..)

        But so was Hitler…

        The projected carve-up of Ukraine between the 'great powers' of the day…and as an act of caving to the demands of the invader…is also an echo of appeasement then…

        And of course trump is only just getting started…

        ..the difference this time is that Putin is the enemy outside ..and trump is the enemy inside…

        ..and them together imperils us all..

        And as for those pinning their hopes on the mid-terms…I see a distinct possibility of trump using civil unrest around those midterms…to declare martial law/suspend elections…backed by a compliant supreme court..and a pliant military leadership..(which he is in the process of installing..)

        I hope I am wrong…and that however bad/destructive he may be..he does have a use-by date…and this nightmare/madness will have that election end-date..

        'till then…fingers/toes crossed..

        ..eh..?

        • Morrissey 4.2.1.1
          8 March 2025 at 12:14 pm

          Nonsense, Phillip. No matter how vehemently you protest, you cannot seriously say that either Putin or Trump is equivalent to Hitler.

          • Phillip ure 4.2.1.1.1
            8 March 2025 at 1:00 pm

            So..are we ranking despots are we…?

            I see your Hitler and raise you a Stalin…

            It is difficult to ignore the echoes between then and now..

            • Incognito 4.2.1.1.1.1
              8 March 2025 at 1:10 pm

              No, we’re not ‘ranking despots’ here under this OP.

              The Author raises an issue about NZ foreign relations and how NZ should communicate this. She also raises the issue of all good & decent people in and of NZ and the World as a whole making a stand and speaking up against the flourishing of evil.

              Try sticking to the OP instead of feeding one of our in-house trolls.

          • weka 4.2.1.1.2
            8 March 2025 at 1:01 pm

            do you think Trump and co are in the process of dismantling US democracy?

            • Morrissey 4.2.1.1.2.1
              8 March 2025 at 1:07 pm

              Yes, weka, I do. I share your fears for American democracy.

              • weka …
                8 March 2025 at 1:09 pm

                that's good to know Morrissey. Can you see a time in the future when Trump and co might end up like WW2 Hitler?

                • Morrissey …
                  8 March 2025 at 1:28 pm

                  For some countries, yes. But the power of resistance is effective. The U.S. attempted and failed to destroy Venezuela during the last Trump regime, and it failed to permanently deter democracy in Brazil. The U.S.-backed onslaught on Gaza has failed to achieve anything militarily; killing overwhelmingly women and children, and obliterating hospitals, schools, and neighbourhoods is not a success either militarily or propagandistically. Russia has failed to subdue Ukrainian resistance. The U.S.-Saudi repression of the Houthis in Yemen has failed dismally.

                  But then you never know: I hope it never happens but could the Trump people carry out a kind of Night of Long Knives in Washington DC? I don't think so.

                  Although I guess that Elon Musk’s ridiculous DOGE is doing just that, in a way.

                  • weka …
                    8 March 2025 at 1:42 pm

                    so when/if they remove democracy, do you think they won't replace it with fascism (in the US)? Why?

                    • Morrisseyhat\'s the Russian term for it. …
                      8 March 2025 at 1:45 pm

                      There certainly are worrying developments in the U.S. But I can't see the state being totally transformed in some kind of Trump/Musk Gleichschaltung.

                    • joe90 …
                      8 March 2025 at 7:53 pm

                      But I can't see the state being totally transformed in some kind of Trump/Musk Gleichschaltung.

                      lol

                      /

                      The White House is giving potential job candidates litmus tests in interviews to make sure they are sufficiently loyal to President Donald Trump and his second-term agenda, according to people familiar with the process.

                      Among the questions asked of multiple candidates: Would you be willing to serve as a spokesperson for mass deportations? Which of Trump’s executive orders is your favorite? Who won the 2020 presidential election? And which Trump policy do you disagree with?

                      Job seekers are asked their views on Jan. 6, 2021, when Trump supporters stormed the Capitol and tried to overturn the certification of Joe Biden’s election victory.

                      https://archive.li/s2pfq (bloomberg)

                    • weka []
                      9 March 2025 at 11:58 am

                      sometimes I think I’m over egging the situation, then I read things like that. I don’t know enough about the US constitution and legal system, but I just go to the fact that NZ’s constitution is unwritten formally, and if the courts do something the government doesn’t like, the government can just bring in legislation to override whatever the courts decided. We are utterly dependent on convention and trusting people to want stability and democracy.

                      The intentional breaking of convention is something we should be alert to, in NZ, right now. It’s already happening, and we should be acting to preserve it now, not waiting until we are in the situation that the US is. The far right have a plan they are rolling out, what is the left doing exactly?

                    • joe90 …
                      9 March 2025 at 12:21 pm

                      sometimes I think I’m over egging the situation

                      Nah. The concentration of power, loyalty tests, blind allegiance, ferreting out dissidence, they're going full fash.

                      The Trump White House has taken its attempt to seize direct control over the entire executive branch to a new level and laid out a startling legal rationale for the move in a previously unreported email obtained by TPM. If successful, Trump would be making a dramatic end run around the Senate’s advice and consent power for certain appointed positions.

                      https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/exclusive-trump-makes-aggressive-new-claim-of-executive-power-to-circumvent-the-senate

                      NEW YORK (AP) — Scrambling to replace their health insurance and to find new work, some laid-off federal workers are running into another unexpected unpleasantry: Relatives cheering their firing.

                      The country’s bitterly tribal politics are spilling into text chains, social media posts and heated conversations as Americans absorb the reality of cost-cutting measures directed by President Donald Trump and carried out by billionaire Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency. Expecting sympathy, some axed workers are finding family and friends who instead are steadfast in their support of what they see as a bloated government’s waste.

                      “I’ve been treated as a public enemy by the government and now it’s bleeding into my own family,” says 24-year-old Luke Tobin, who was fired last month from his job as a technician with the U.S. Forest Service in Idaho’s Nez Perce National Forest.

                      https://apnews.com/article/trump-musk-doge-federal-layoffs-c41ae32800a7f170484de79572543da2?

                      The Department of Homeland Security has begun performing polygraph tests on employees to determine who might be leaking information to the media about immigration operations, according to four sources familiar with the practice.

                      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dhs-has-begun-performing-polygraph-tests-on-employees-to-find-leakers/ar-AA1AwEQw

                    • weka []
                      9 March 2025 at 12:25 pm

                      there’s a part of me that hopes they end up being too incompetent to go the whole hog, but even if that’s true, erring on the side of caution is the imperative.

                      that polygraph shit is bad. I hope and assume that a lot of resistance organising is already underground, but if you still have a job a polygraph is hard to fake I think.

                  • roblogic …
                    8 March 2025 at 1:46 pm

                    Yeah maybe not 100% fascist, half of America is still sane and believes in democracy, but the other half is in control now, and who knows where this madness will end

      • roblogic 4.2.2
        8 March 2025 at 11:50 am

        Who was talking about Putin? Veering off topic again.

        • Morrissey 4.2.2.1
          8 March 2025 at 12:13 pm

          Sadly, Phillip's reply to me does exactly that.

          [You set up the diversion @ 5.2 at 11:13 am to which Phillip ure replied @ 5.2.1 at 11:44 am. So, don’t be a disingenuous dick and accuse another commenter of your own faux pas. Try addressing the OP without a Chomsky quote or similar, for once – Incognito]

  5. Heather Grimwood 5
    8 March 2025 at 11:38 am

    I too am upset about the peremptory sacking of Phil Goff, but it surely considerably reduces any mana of Winston Peters no matter whether he acted alone or on advice/orders.

    • Shanreagh 5.1
      8 March 2025 at 2:40 pm

      I agree.

      I think history will remember Goff pointing out the clothes-less Emperor longer than it will remember the Peters & Luxon vows that the clothes-less Emperor was clothed

    • mpledger 5.2
      8 March 2025 at 6:51 pm

      I think the problem is that NZ doesn't realise the peril that Europe feels and that Goff, immersed in it, was reflecting. I had a friend from Denmark visiting last July and she said their govt had shelters ready for 1/3 of the country and were advising parents to get (or maybe giving parents) iodine tablets for nuclear fallout for their kids. They worry that Putin may throw nukes around if things go really badly for him.

      I don't know if it made to NZ tv but Macron said that Europe was on the verge of war.

      The other thing is, if the USA goes rogue and tries to take over Canada, what side will NZ be on?

  6. Barfly 6
    8 March 2025 at 11:56 am

    Look I'm on the left and I don't think I'll live long enough to drift to the right.

    Now, having said that I believe Phil Goff is a very clever person who in a time of world lunacy allowed emotion to stir him to an inappropriate comment – he sacked himself.

    While I think Winston is a corrupt piece of filth he's correct to sack Goff. Goff's comment had no potential upside and enormous potential downside and was not his to make as an ambassador.

  7. Heather Grimwood 7
    8 March 2025 at 12:07 pm

    To Barfly at 7 : I. grant what you say, but had thought Goff's comments rather obtuse and not likely to be taken up by many.

    • Anne 7.1
      8 March 2025 at 12:38 pm

      I agree. It would not probably have registered with Trumpist America but it will now that Peters chose to highlight it by sacking Goff.

      • Heather Grimwood 7.1.1
        8 March 2025 at 12:48 pm

        To Anne at 8.1 : Highly agree with your first statement, but hesitated to state the fact!

        • Anne 7.1.1.1
          9 March 2025 at 10:32 am

          Yes. there are a tiny handful of arm-chair bullies here which can make one hesitant to express an opinion. It used to put me off commenting sometimes but not any more. 😉

          • Incognito 7.1.1.1.1
            9 March 2025 at 11:58 am

            The point of this Post is, IMO, that people should speak up even when it’s uncomfortable or unpopular. It doesn’t stop some here with rather obsessive tendencies, so why should anybody feel bullied to shut up and/or stay silent? The kaupapa of this site is robust debate but there’s no place for bullies of any stripe or colour. Just call them out on their bullying and if that doesn’t change anything, alert the Mods although they tend to be aware of things here but keeping a watchful eye in the background. NB, when they start to bully or attack an Author this is viewed as a clear attempt at martyrdom that attracts a once-only stern warning, at the least, or an immediate ban – Mods protect Authors as a special species that’s rather rare.

            • Anne 7.1.1.1.1.1
              9 March 2025 at 9:37 pm

              Many years ago I recall alerting lprent that someone was 'stalking' me on this site. I think the pseudonym was "tinfoilhat". It transpired the person thought I was the former Labour Party president under Helen Clark, Margaret Wilson. I think they ended up being sent on their merry way. smiley

  8. Stephen D 8
    8 March 2025 at 1:57 pm

    My question for Winston is, how far up Trump’s arse would his tongue go?

  9. Shanreagh 9
    8 March 2025 at 2:37 pm

    I was intrigued that the Goff response seemed to occur within a room bedecked with Chatham House.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360604666/comment-cost-phil-goff-his-job-high-commissioner

    I had always thought that the Chatham House rules gave some sort of protection to people to speak out and while other participants might know who they were the views were unatrributable in the wider sphere.

    https://www.chathamhouse.org/about-us/chatham-house-rule?

    So was this protection not invoked?

    The usual diplomatic way of operating is to walk on eggshells usually or tiptoe around minefields with a generous supply of niceties in hand. There have been notable astounding times when these have not been observed.

    I feel long after the dust has settled on the particular incident, and as the world settles in to having a capricious bully boy in power that we will better remember Goff painting it as he saw it as a NZer, than we will remeber Luxon's milksop response of 'trust'.

    • SPC 9.1
      8 March 2025 at 2:54 pm

      It being reported (with attribution) in print (and broadcast) afterwards made it public.

  10. Darien Fenton 10
    8 March 2025 at 3:40 pm

    I agree with Helen Clark who said Winston should just have had a pull your head in conversation with Phil. As people have pointed out, now the whole world knows what was said and if the design by Winston was to calm the mad Trump farm, he completely failed. Personally, I felt proud that someone, just someone from NZ was prepared to stand up to Trump. It was a mild comment in the context of discussion about the Munich conference and appeasement by Chamberlain. We learned that doesn't work. Nor will today's appeasement of Trump who is all over the place. Once he gets his eyes fixed on our meat exports to the US expect all hell to break loose.

    • roblogic 10.1
      8 March 2025 at 4:31 pm

      Winston made it 1000x worse by over-reacting and putting the spotlight on what should have been ignored as a flippant remark in a private setting.

      A sternly worded email was probably all that was needed.

      Crickets from the free speech union

    • weka 10.2
      8 March 2025 at 6:05 pm

      exactly. It's not like Goff stood up and said Trump is a raving narcissistic loon with no sense of reason or humanity.

    • Belladonna 10.4
      10 March 2025 at 9:08 am

      Goodness. I think that was by design (by Winston).
      Goff stepped out of line (outside his brief as an ambassador).
      Winston stepped on him publicly, just before his trip to the US to meet the Trump administration.
      It seems designed to demonstrate that the NZ government are friendly to Trump – in the hope that sanctions won't be applied to our trade.

      A dressing-down wouldn't have had at all the same impact.

      But, no tears for Goff. He's already demonstrated foot-in-mouth tendencies in his role as high commissioner.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/489323/high-commissioner-to-the-uk-phil-goff-offends-maori-king-with-coronation-comments-forgotten-karakia

      Demonstrating, perhaps, that there are reasons why high level diplomats should come from the professional diplomatic service, rather than recycled politicians.

  11. Sanctuary 11
    8 March 2025 at 3:45 pm

    Pretty simple. NZ First is flirting with the threshold and Peter's threw Goff to the slavering pro-Trump cookers he courts to shore up their vote.

  12. observer 12
    8 March 2025 at 4:59 pm

    Goff overstepped. He was foolish.

    But really the only question here, once we strip away all the posturing and political theatre, is … "Would he have been sacked if Peters/Luxon really wanted to keep him?". If he was important, to them.

    Of course not. A reprimand, an apology from Goff. etc. Then see out his post (ends this year).

    Let's get real-politik. There are those who will never be sacked (ACT/NZF approved), there are those who can be (Nat Ministers Bayley, Simmons, Lee) and there are those who are completely expendable (not only Goff but assorted public service leaders).

    If anyone think it's about merit and fairness, they need to read "politics for beginners".

    • Patricia Bremner 12.1
      8 March 2025 at 5:53 pm

      "Goff was foolish" That is your prerogative, but I see Winston Peters as plain nasty, and blowing with the current wind that suits his sail, currently coming from Trump!!

      • observer 12.1.1
        8 March 2025 at 6:40 pm

        Yes, Peters aligns himself with Trump (and not just on foreign policy). It's shameful.

        But the famous old definition of an ambassador is "somebody sent abroad to lie for his country". Goff's job was to represent a terrible government. He didn't resign on principle when the government was formed, or in the 15 months since.

  13. Ad 13
    8 March 2025 at 5:08 pm

    Luxon and Peters' silence in the outrage that Trump is forming world wide is the clearest measure of low low New Zealand has stooped from the righteous days of Helen Clark and before that David Lange when we clear about our place in the world and did something about it.

    Not everyone will agree with Clark's commitments by NZDF and by MFAT but at least she ensured we had some and we all knew what they were.

    We were proud once, and I believe Goff was part of that proud tradition.

    Good on you Phil way to go out.

  14. weka 14
    9 March 2025 at 12:11 pm

    I completely agree about the need to preserve conventions. The thing I'm unclear on is how far Goff stepped outside of conventions for the High Commissioner role. And then, to what extent it matters.

  15. tWig 15
    9 March 2025 at 2:02 pm

    BHN hosted the NZ Leftist Collective, with Pat, Paul The Other One, Jordon Rivers and Gerald Otto and Bomber last week.

    They ask how can leftist communicators reframe the dangerous messages of ACT and other rw-funded operations are seeding in our society?

    Al Gore when asked by a US comedian “why can we say the truth about the things that are happening and the main stream media doesn’t?” replied

    “Because the jester can say the truth when others would get their heads cut off”.