Context

Written By: - Date published: 6:43 am, November 6th, 2008 - 10 comments
Categories: bill english, election 2008, iraq, john key, national, youtube - Tags:

Yesterday morning on Sunrise, John Key was moaning that there is no context to the latest secret agenda tape, where Bill English praises the war in Iraq and criticises Bill English’s ‘moralistic’ approach to international relations. Key is right, context helps us undestand information better. Luckily, Scoop’s library keeps every media release, so we can see what English was saying as leader of the Nats as the time of the invasion:

“The National Party strongly supports New Zealand’s traditional friends and allies, and like them it’s committed to regime change in Baghdad”

Luckily too, Labour08 has audio of Key speaking on Iraq in the House, from which Greeenwoman has produced a youtube video that put Key’s rant into its proper context:

For a final piece of context, here is Phil Goff, an experienced minister of foreign, defence, and trade, presenting a more, um, measured view of international relations

10 comments on “Context ”

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  1. cocamc 1
    6 November 2008 at 7:41 am

    Ok – so whats wrong with the Bill English comment? We needed a regime change in Iraq. Sadam ruled that country with tyranny and killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. The pretext for war was wrong over WMD but if the Allies can now leave under Obama’s leadership then we will all be better for it.

  2. Robinsod 2
    6 November 2008 at 7:44 am

    Iraq is better now than it was under (US installed) Saddam? You’ve got to be joking.

  3. cocamc 3
    6 November 2008 at 7:48 am

    I never said it was better at the moment – The US has to leave the country better than when it found it – of course thats obvious. So would you have rathered Sdam was still in power causing havoc?

  4. higherstandard 4
    6 November 2008 at 8:06 am

    The biggest mistake in relation to Iraq was not finishing the job and removing Saddam after kicking his troops out of Kuwait.

  5. Pat 5
    6 November 2008 at 8:11 am

    Context? You only heard a selected snippet of a recorded conversation. How do you know if English was talking about Iraq, Afghanistan, Georgia or anything else? How do you know his comments weren’t taken OUT of context?

  6. Barb 6
    6 November 2008 at 8:14 am

    if only we could have a major tv channel that would present some of these facts, show evidence and challenge John Key on these – he is never being challenged. It’s frightening to think the public are being so indoctrinated and manipulated by the right-wing media. That obvious, orchestrated question in the debate last night about flip-flops from Guyon Espiner to help John downplay them was classic (he certainly seemed to be prepared for it and appeared to have rehearsed his answer….)

  7. Robin Grieve 7
    6 November 2008 at 8:23 am

    Well done to the secret taper I say, gives a good insight into the lack of morality and decency, the arrogence and the nastiness of a Labour supporter.

    Are you guys all out of a job when labour loses or do they keep you on the payroll?
    .
    Notice the taper still refuses to release full tape, I wonder what he has to hide?

    As for Iraq, I didn’t like Sudam Hussein he was a murderer I don’t know why the labour lot liked him so much. Maybe they have empathy with a controling oppresive regime.
    Mind you I think in Iraq you could have worn a yellow jacket there without fear of prosecution not like we have hear.

  8. Matthew Pilott 8
    6 November 2008 at 10:07 am

    “ I don’t know why the labour lot liked him so much. Maybe they have empathy with a controling oppresive regime.”

    Labour didn’t ‘like’ him. I guess this sort of concept is well above your level of thinking, but there are issues around invading other countries, and sending young men and women off to die. You might want to think about how well it worked out for the average Iraqi too, but I suspect empathy isn’t your thing. In fact I suggest you don’t worry your wee little head about it any more, you might reply with an even more embarrassing comment.

    “Are you guys all out of a job when labour loses or do they keep you on the payroll?”

    Yes, every one of us on the left is a public servant. Tell me, what does baby taste like?

  9. Ron Shaw 9
    6 November 2008 at 6:31 pm

    International geopolitics in complex and simple at the same time. Unfortunately realpolitik not idealism rules.
    George HW Bush knew what he was doing when he gave General Schwartzkopf the order to stop at the border in the 1991 Gulf War. Odious as Saddam was, pragmatic politics suggested that he would be best left in place to keep Iran’s leaders on their toes.
    George W Bush, thick as pigs**t and under the thrall of lunatics like Dick Cheney, thought he could win Daddy’s affection by finishing the job in Iraq. This was one of worst of his many dumb decisions.
    Now we have an imperial over-stretch with two wars on the go, a financial crisis, an assertive India and China wanting their seat at the big table, and so on. Obama will have his work cut out for him to disentangle the US from Dubya’s mess.
    And credit where credit is due – only under Labour does New Zealand tread an independent foreign policy path. Kirk with the Frigates to Muroroa, Lange with the nuclear ban and standing up to state sponsored terror, Clark who stood by our traditional allies in 1991 and in Afghanistan but wisely kept out of the Iraq invasion debacle.
    Key would have committed troops to Dubya’s debacle and that would have been wrong.

  10. Pascal's bookie 10
    6 November 2008 at 6:40 pm

    That’s right Ron.

    Another thing the ‘should’ve finished the job in ’91’ brigade forget is that there was an actual coalition involving most of the local Arab states. If the US crossed the Iraqi border, that coalition would have fallen apart.

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