Daily review 09/11/2023

32 comments on “Daily review 09/11/2023 ”

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1. Dennis Frank 1

   9 November 2023 at 6:23 pm

   Looks like Ginny did a Kiri: https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/11/09/labours-ginny-andersen-subject-of-bullying-complaint/

   The complaint, which 1News has obtained, came from the mother of one the volunteers. It said Andersen yelled and screamed at her daughter and son on election night about them not doing enough volunteering and made them feel like they were to blame for her losing the Hutt South seat.

   The complainant said Andersen behaved aggressively towards her children and made them leave Labour's election venue.

   This surprises me considerably. She had been coming across well in public.
2. ianmac 2

   9 November 2023 at 7:16 pm

   NZ First leader Winston Peters today launched a broadside against the decision to allow people to enrol to vote on election day.Funny that. Has Winston forgotten?

   Another memory lapse? Funny that.

   The problem for Peters is that he is in large part responsible for the delay. He was a member of the Cabinet which decided on the change, a member of the Government that introduced the legislation making the change, and the leader of the NZ First Party which voted for it at all three stages of the legislative process throughout 2019 and 2020.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/winston-peters-blames-delayed-negotiations-on-decision-supported-by-winston-peters/T2J6B2EUKJETNJEXXIDGAZXK5Q/
   • pat 2.1

     9 November 2023 at 7:27 pm

     Its like out running the lion…you dont have to, you only need to out run the alternative prey.

     Winston is relying on his supporters not knowing/remembering what he said (last week, nevermind some years ago)…if they ever knew.
   • mikesh 2.2

     10 November 2023 at 7:50 am

     He may have been a member of that cabinet, but it doesn't mean he agreed with that particular decision.
3. observer 3

   9 November 2023 at 7:18 pm

   There's going to be a lot of this in the days and weeks ahead. Deny history, delete history. They never said it, never did it, pretend it never happened.

   Winston Peters, speaking today:

   "And here we are, with a three-week delay, because people decided to have people enrolling on election day … We had three weeks' delay as a consequence of that and I wish the media would focus on who caused that delay than the last few days, and we've been flat out all day and half the darn night trying to get the negotiations completed."

   The law was changed in 2020 to allow people to enrol to vote on election day – it was passed with New Zealand First's support.

   Winston Peters as coalition talks continue: 'Speed is of the essence' | RNZ News
   • observer 3.1

     9 November 2023 at 7:21 pm

     Incidentally, the negotiations have now lasted longer than the 2017 negotiations, which Luxon has criticised.
     • weka 3.1.1

       9 November 2023 at 8:23 pm

       Getting close to 1996 too. Who caused the delay then? Oh that's right, Winston fucking Peters, in our first MMP election establishing the skew towards macho and bullshit right at the start.

       It was widely expected that he would throw his support to Labour and make Labour leader Helen Clark New Zealand's first female prime minister. Peters had bitterly criticised his former National colleagues, and appeared to promise that he would not even consider a coalition with Bolger. However, after over a month of negotiations with both parties, Peters decided to enter into a coalition with National.[49] Michael Laws, then New Zealand First's campaign manager, later claimed that Peters had already decided to enter into an agreement with National and used his negotiations with Labour simply to win more concessions from Bolger.[50]

       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Peters#Fourth_National_Government_(1993%E2%80%931999)
       • mikesh 3.1.1.1

         10 November 2023 at 7:58 am

         New Zealand First's campaign manager, later claimed that Peters had already decided to enter into an agreement with National and used his negotiations with Labour simply to win more concessions from Bolger.

         A very rational tactic I would say.
         • weka 3.1.1.1.1

           10 November 2023 at 10:33 am

           It was our first MMP election and he set the tone for all the others. It was shockingly bad and anti-democratic.
   • Barfly 3.2

     9 November 2023 at 8:17 pm

     I think that's just Winston speak for "it's not me holding things up"
     • Incognito 3.2.1

       9 November 2023 at 8:52 pm

       An old man is driving his old car on the motorway. He hears on the radio a traffic warning about very slow traffic on the same road in the same direction as he’s going. He shakes his head in disbelief saying to himself that the road is perfectly clear and that those morons on the radio have no idea what they’re talking about and should all be fired.
       • Anne 3.2.1.1

         9 November 2023 at 9:44 pm

         Reminds me of an incident – err umm – caused by me on the North Shore motorway leading to the bridge. It occurred when the then Prince Charles and his wife Camilla were off out west to attend some function. The North West motorway was closed to all traffic but the convoy of police and other personnel who were on their way to escort the royal motorcade decided to have a practice run on the lead up to the bridge.

         All traffic was stopped but I failed to pick up the signal and continued on my merry way. Suddenly to the left of me a large convoy of white vans came streaming past me at breakneck speed while to the right of me a bunch of well spruced cops came roaring past on shiny motor bikes gesticulating and shouting at me in what seemed to be quite offensive language. It was at that point it dawned on me I was the sole car on the entire motorway and I had to reverse back nearly a kilometre before I reached the multiple lines of cars patiently waiting to resume their journeys. I sat in front of them in my little Toyota Yaris for all the world looking like the leading helms-woman before a battle charge.

         I bet there were a few giggles amongst those fellow travellers as they watched the pantomime occurring in front of them.
   • Ad 3.3

     9 November 2023 at 10:09 pm

     Winston Peters just ran the left down, and got into power, and you're complaining.

     Not sure you're too good at remembering history yourself. Maybe that 78 year old remembers how power is attained and deployed better than most.
     • observer 3.3.1

       9 November 2023 at 10:55 pm

       If you define "complaining" as correctly pointing out that he is misleading the public, then sure, guilty as charged. I note you do not dispute that he is doing this.

       Should we be admiring these constant memory lapses (to be generous) or outright falsehoods? No thanks.

       History? It tells us power can be attained in many ways, from coups to revolutions to lying at elections. Only the morally bankrupt would assess them all by ends, not means.
       • Ad 3.3.1.1

         9 November 2023 at 11:01 pm

         You're guilty of whining about trivia and neglecting the actual transfer of power that Peters has gained.
       • mikesh 3.3.1.2

         10 November 2023 at 8:13 am

         I don't think that Peters has said that he would go with National; I think that that is an an assumption made by Luxon, the National Party, and the general public. Peters has always said that he would decide which party he would support only after the voting public had spoken.

         I remember election night 2017 when Bill English announced that he would be forming a government with NZ1st's support.
         • Belladonna 3.3.1.2.1

           10 November 2023 at 9:27 am

           I agree that Peters has not said that he would go into coalition with National.

           Although he's prepared to negotiate with Luxon to that effect – there is no guarantee that the negotiations will bear fruit.

           However, his alternative is to be on the cross-benches. Both he and Hipkins have ruled out a coalition with Labour.

           So, in this instance, Peters is not as free to negotiate with both parties, as he has been in the past.
4. georgecom 4

   9 November 2023 at 8:16 pm

   I saw on the news tonight how Waka Kotahi was swamped with emails via the hobsons pledge website complaining about the idea of road signs being bilingual. Should anyone not know, Don Brash is behind hobsons pledge. I checked out the page intending to send the message below to Waka Kotahi via brash's page. sadly the links to making submissions/comments has been removed. however, if another occasion presents itself I might use brash's own webpage to send a message along the following lines:

   kia ora

   I urge you to ignore submissions or feedback sent via the Hobsons Pledge (thereafter HP) website. HP is heavily influenced by Don Brash who, if you are not aware, is far from an average 'concerned citizen' he might like to portray himself as. Brash has a lengthy political history, stretching back to the 1980s, rooted in right wing free market ideology that has been termed over the years neo-liberalism, libertarian or 'the new right'.

   Brash claims that he believes in equality however his idea of equality means an unregulated free market. In such a free market people are not equal, some have more power, wealth and privilege than others. When the type of free market reforms Brash likes were instituted in NZ during the 1980s and 1990s, those who benefited most were those who already had power, wealth and privilege and it allowed them to accumulate more. A majority of such people were white males. So Brash's view of equality is essentially a free market that entrenches power wealth and privilege for people like him, white males.

   Don Brash also hs a political history which is worth knowing about. I think it says something about him and his modus operandi. Brash was the leader of the National Party back in 2005. Around that time a group of Business men approached Brash offring to spend $1.5 million dollars to help get Brash and his party elected to Government. The business men were Exclusive Brethren who, ironically abstain from voting in elections, but who wanted a goverment more favourable to their interests.

   There is nothing in itself sinister of even fundamentally wrong in that. Has Brash been open and clear about that connection and properly recorded the $1.5 million spent on his behalf all would have been transparent and above board. Brash however tried to keep that funding and connection hidden and did all he could over a number of weeks to deny any link to him. In essence, he told anything but the truth. That saga is one of the most significant political deceptions in modern NZ political history.

   Thank you
   • Ad 4.1

     9 November 2023 at 10:05 pm

     Whatever the Cabinet coalition agreement, even without a referendum Peters and Seymour are at least prepared to have a more open conversation about the Treaty of Waitangi than anything the last government tried.

     Imagine if the Green Party and Maori Party and Labour Maori caucus had travelled together in a roadshow up and down the country explaining how the Treaty relationship works in practise, instead of leaving travelling roadshows up to the likes of John Batchelor.

     Quite possibly it would have been a different election outcome entirely.
5. Barfly 5

   9 November 2023 at 8:21 pm

   Standard readers may want to check out the reddit /Newzealand they have over 500,000k members and there is a lot of left wing commenting there
   • weka 5.1

     9 November 2023 at 8:24 pm

     linky?
     • joe90 5.1.1

       9 November 2023 at 8:50 pm

       https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/
       • weka 5.1.1.1

         9 November 2023 at 9:26 pm

         ta.
   • ianmac 5.2

     9 November 2023 at 8:35 pm

     Sure? Had a look and it is a pile on Ginny Anderson. Already guilty don't ya know?
     https://www.reddit.com/
     • Barfly 5.2.1

       9 November 2023 at 9:12 pm

       Ginny was item number 6 of the first 15 items I saw listed under the politics tab and yes there are right wingers as well. One topic I looked at last night was about Willie Jackson and Rimmers proposed referendum and I lost count of the number of "I'm white but fuck that bullshit sign me up I stand with the Maori" I found it quite heartening
   • adam 5.3

     9 November 2023 at 9:08 pm

     "Lux flakes" one of the funniest comment there. Good mocker for the wanna be PM.
6. georgecom 6

   9 November 2023 at 8:39 pm

   I was also pleased to hear on the new tonight an story that Fonterra announced plans for a 30 percent intensity reduction in on-farm emissions from 2018 levels by 2030. This was a result of pressure put on Fonterra by the likes of Nestle who buy Fonterra products. This plan by Fonterra is not perfect by any means, but neither is He Waka Eke Noa which is about starting to drive down farming based GHG emissions. Not perfect but is is better than doing nothing.

   What particularly pleased me is that for farmers who take climate change seriously and are making meaningful changes, things should not change markedly. Those who have gone regenerative/organic/natural farming for example are already ahead of the game and are reducing emissions AND building climate resilience into their farming.

   For the likes of the grassroots movement however it's a good kick up the rse. That 'movement' includes the types who don't think CC is serious or who think they should be permitted to continue BAU. The type who moan about the 'pace of change' with government plans to reduce CHG or improve water quality, who think 9 years of do nothing under a John Key National Goverment was acceptable, who welcome another 5 years of doing nothing under a Luxon National Goverment. They think they will get their way electing a National Govt and then the market turns round and says to them "think again mate". That's pleasing.
   • Ad 6.1

     9 November 2023 at 9:57 pm

     Did Fonterra say there would be any price premium for compliance? Or tariff for non-compliance? Nope

     Did Fonterra or their advocacy arm DairyNZ support Three Waters – which was code for strong water and wastewater regulation of dairy? Nope

     Did Fonterra announce a hard target with a date they promise to meet? Nope

     Did Fonterra reconcile their proposal to any – and there were a few – any legislation Labour and the Greens had brought in? Or indeed any government policy the previous government had introduced over 6 years? Nope

     Did they invite other dairy industry players to join with them in industry or national interest? Nope

     Did they apologise to Hipkins or Ardern for throwing out and trashing the on-farm gas emissions agreement they'd spent 5 years working on with everyone? Nope

     https://www.fonterra.com/nz/en/our-stories/media/fonterra-announces-climate-plans-for-the-future.html#:~:text=The%20Co%2Doperative%20is%20targeting,emissions%20profile%20of%20its%20products.

     Fonterra now have their previous Tier 3 product manager and government relations expert ready for a major seat right in the heart of government: Nicola Willis.

     Fonterra and their dairy farmers won this election against Labour. Today's Fonterra announcement is setting out tea, scones and jam to eat off the table of your political opponents' corpse.
     • georgecom 6.1.1

       10 November 2023 at 8:21 am

       likely no to all of your questions. farming should be having a price on their GHGs by next year, instead they will have a 5 year 'cup of tea' from a government who seemingly cannot grasp the urgency that climate change requires. The climate isn't going to stop warming for 5 years whilst the govt and farmers sort their shite out. This stuff should have been in place 15 years ago but instead we got a do nothing john key government. the Fonterra announcement is basically a repudiation to those who want BAU and reinforces what was said many times by the likes of James Shaw and Damien O'Connor that foreign markets will demand action regardless of what the NZ govt demands.
   • UncookedSelachimorpha 6.2

     10 November 2023 at 2:15 am

     "30 percent intensity reduction "

     Another loophole there – this is only CO2eq per tonne of production. So if production goes up by 30% – guess what, no actual emissions reduction at all.
     • georgecom 6.2.1

       10 November 2023 at 8:24 am

       yes. a "30% reduction" would occur if production remains static but be less if production increases. Any reduction is useful but the Fonterra announcement is not the silver bullet by any means. Much more is needed.
7. adam 7

   9 November 2023 at 8:59 pm

   Great video on West Antarctic by realist climate scientists.

   Look if you want good news then don't bother with video or read the report.

   More for the adults in the room.

   https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01818-x

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