Daily review 10/06/2024

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, June 10th, 2024 - 22 comments
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22 comments on “Daily review 10/06/2024 ”

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  1. bwaghorn 1
    10 June 2024 at 5:48 pm

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350304545/nz-politics-live-national-mp-tim-costley-rents-back-his-wellington-flat

    Would it not be far cheaper for the government to put mps up in motels during their sitting periods if the poor little darlings can't fend for themselves.

    • alwyn 1.1
      10 June 2024 at 7:28 pm

      Wouldn't it be far cheaper if the Government simply told all the List MP's that their job was in Wellington and they were expected to live there. No accommodation allowance for any list MP. They don't need paid travel for family either except for the initial move to Wellington.

      Costley is an electorate MP. He does need to keep his home, and duties in the electorate going.

      • bwaghorn 1.1.1
        10 June 2024 at 8:21 pm

        Do they do anything useful in their home areas

        • Belladonna 1.1.1.1
          10 June 2024 at 10:49 pm

          Who? Electorate MPs. The best ones, absolutely do. There are, of course, always drones in every party who seem to struggle with the fact that they are elected to represent everyone in their electorate – not just the ones who voted for them.

          List MPs. It's pretty doubtful. They have no mandate to represent any particular area.

        • weka 1.1.1.2
          10 June 2024 at 10:56 pm

          like be in a family?

          • bwaghorn 1.1.1.2.1
            11 June 2024 at 6:46 am

            There is that , but what is your average list mp upto while not at parliament?

            • weka 1.1.1.2.1.1
              11 June 2024 at 10:35 am

              dunno. I know the Greens used to do a lot of electorate work. Partly because the party is grass roots based so there were always local activity, but also because it grows the party vote. Don't know what they do now in the electorates, but the MPs all seems to be doing stuff. Maybe it's different in larger parties?

          • Belladonna 1.1.1.2.2
            11 June 2024 at 9:30 am

            There is quite a strong argument that, if elected off a list, that you and your family should transfer to where your new job is located (Wellington) – just as you would have to, if you gained any other employment (as a senior civil servant, for example).

            If you don't want to (for family reasons), then you'd decline the nomination – just as you would choose not to apply for a senior job in the Wellington-based Treasury or MBIE.

            If you want to retain a house/home in your hometown – of course you can; but it's up to you to find new accommodation in Wellington, and pay for it. On an MP salary, this should not be too difficult.

            The down-side is that list MPs become increasingly concentrated in Wellington – and lose perspective amidst the beltway politics. TBH – I think a degree of that is inevitable – and I think that most longer-term list MPs have tended to move to Wellington in any case (unless they have strong ambitions – like Swarbrick – to gain an electorate seat).

            • Graeme 1.1.1.2.2.1
              11 June 2024 at 10:06 am

              Having list MPs Wellington based falls over when local electorate committees select poor quality MPs.

              In Otago and Southland National has had a succession of absolute plonkers, so the backup of NZF or ACT list MPs to follow up issues and provide alternative views has worked well. The same in Dunedin where the Michael Woodhouse did a bit of good work for the city. The big gap here is a strong Labour / Green / TPM list MP to provide the same balance in Central.

              But I suppose it's whether you see list MPs as an extension of the democratic process, and representing and working for us through the party vote, or an extension of the party process and just representing and working for the respective party.

              • Belladonna …
                11 June 2024 at 12:08 pm

                But I suppose it's whether you see list MPs as an extension of the democratic process, and representing and working for us through the party vote, or an extension of the party process and just representing and working for the respective party.

                I think that it's more whether the List MPs see themselves as representing any specific area – or just working for the Party.
                Many appear to believe that they only represent those who voted for them.

            • weka 1.1.1.2.2.2
              11 June 2024 at 11:02 am

              what's the argument? Because you've said what you think should happen but not why.

              If you don't want to (for family reasons), then you'd decline the nomination – just as you would choose not to apply for a senior job in the Wellington-based Treasury or MBIE.

              the result of which would be even more parties top heavy with wonks.

              Moving families unnecessarily destroys communities. It's not just the nuclear family, it's the extended family, and friends, and networks, and the impact of removing that whole social structure from the community. Families aren't stock units to be moved around.

              If the issue here is housing and who pays for it, there are other ways to solve that issue.

              • Belladonna …
                11 June 2024 at 11:58 am

                The argument is, for List MPs: Your job is based in Wellington. You need to relocate to where your job is (just as you would in the public or private sectors).

                If you choose to retain a house/home in your home town – you are perfectly entitled to do so – but you should get no assistance from the State in paying for alternative accommodation. You may choose to rent it out in order to afford your Wellington rent. Or choose to pay for Wellington rent in addition (high salaries, remember)

                People shift all the time for work reasons. Why is it 'destroying communities' if it's politicians; and not if it's CEOs, state sector employees, or teachers and police? I've just had two friends relocate their families for work (One Auckland to ChCh; the other from Wellington to Auckland). It's not a decision that anyone takes lightly – but families are amazingly resilient, forming new extended networks in their new location. The nostalgic idea that families remain in the same house for 50 years has been gone for decades.

                Some people choose not to accept a promotion or apply for a new job – because of family reasons [Despite being headhunted, I chose not to apply for a job with a significant degree of travel, when I had small children]. People weigh these issues up for themselves. But any politician has already decided that their career is more important than their family – it's a notoriously family unfriendly job. Actually relocating to Wellington is likely to make their job more family-friendly, rather than less.

                Remembering these are people who are going to be on very high (for NZ) incomes. They don't need additional accommodation allowances. [Historically, these were put in place for electorate MPs – who do have a very strong argument that they need to retain accessibility within their home electorate. There is no argument that List MPs have the same needs.]

                LOL, parties are already 'top heavy with wonks' in their list MPs – that's pretty much the definition of the GP. Which was (until very recently) entirely List based. This has nothing to do with the location of the MPs – and everything to do with the List-based system.

                The only 'other way to solve the issue' that I can see is for the current payment for accommodation and travel to continue. Or do you have an alternative?

              • alwyn …
                11 June 2024 at 2:16 pm

                "Families aren't stock units to be moved around."

                You probably don't come from a family that was involved in the Police, School Teaching, a Bank or in the Military. Moving was a simple fact of life in those organisations. Whether it is still the case I don't have current knowledge of but it is hard to see it having changed.

                There are only about 50 list MPs at any time and they wouldn't have much effect on any given community if they moved with any family to Wellington.

                I suggest that the annual shifting of thousands of school teachers would have a much greater effect on community life.

                • weka …
                  11 June 2024 at 2:39 pm

                  We shouldn't be shifting teachers like that either. I have three siblings who have been teachers, one her whole career. She's worked at three schools, all in the same city.

                  There are only about 50 list MPs at any time and they wouldn't have much effect on any given community if they moved with any family to Wellington.

                  Depends on what you think community is. But maybe the partner is a key librarian, or teacher, or runs the local scouts, or any number of things.

                  It's the destruction of the web that matters. Treating families as stock units does that.

                  • Belladonna …
                    11 June 2024 at 8:26 pm

                    So how come these communities survive perfectly well when the family shifts town (as many do in NZ)?
                    Why is it only politicians' families who are so integral to the community?
                    The daughter of a friend has just shifted town (Auckland-Christchurch) – she's a teacher, her husband is an engineer, they have two young kids. They moved because of housing costs in Auckland (cheaper in ChCh), and because the engineer got a really good job offer. It wasn't a trivial decision, and they looked at the pros and cons thoroughly.

                    Amazingly, their community in Auckland didn't collapse without them….

                    Nor did they feel like 'stock units'. They chose to shift their family for employment/lifestyle reasons. Just like list MPs would be choosing to shift their families for employment reasons.

                    You do realize that very-well-paid MPs are the *only* government employees who get this nice accommodation bonus? What makes them so special?

                    Your example about someone working at 3 schools their whole life in the same city is really dated People move around a whole lot more than they did in the past. Not everyone, of course, but an increasing number do not live in the town they grew up in.

    • joe90 1.2
      10 June 2024 at 7:45 pm

      despite living just 58km from Parliament,

      Commuting is for plebes, not fly-boys.

    • Belladonna 1.3
      10 June 2024 at 10:50 pm

      Can't see any MP voting for that option…..

      • bwaghorn 1.3.1
        11 June 2024 at 6:45 am

        Funny I thought the responsible with tax payers money national party would be getting cheap hostels and double bunking to keep cost down !!

        • Belladonna 1.3.1.1
          11 June 2024 at 9:16 am

          Note, I said any MP. I can't see Labour or the Greens voting for this, either.

          • bwaghorn 1.3.1.1.1
            11 June 2024 at 9:51 am

            In know but act and National want everyone else to do it hard,

            I see macanulty has been caught with his fingers in the cookie jar now to

  2. joe90 2
    10 June 2024 at 7:22 pm

    The anti-anti-elite party.

    @docrussjackson

    #THREAD Rumour has it, the character leading Nigel Farage away is George Cottrell, an interesting chap, who may give some insight into Farage's 'anti-elite' Reform UK team. (Btw, I don't agree with chucking drinks over anyone). So who is George Cottrell?

    https://x.com/docrussjackson/status/1798005359908712927

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1798005359908712927.html